Death Note Mini Mafia

On August 31 2012 06:37 Zephirdd wrote:


Thank you for that. You will have a special place in any future games just because you thought that through.

Hapahauli replaces hiro, and game begins tonight normally.

Role PMs should be sent somewhere between 40min prior the deadline and the daypost.

On August 31 2012 11:24 MrZentor wrote:
Hi.

On August 31 2012 11:28 MrZentor wrote:
Light. <3

On August 31 2012 11:32 Risen wrote:
...

The only exception to this being the people who said they would be busy pregame so I'll give them a wash maybe (maybe) on those days.

On August 31 2012 11:40 Hopeless1der wrote:
Zeph is likely to take care of any actual lurking, but Hapa is right. If I'm too silent for too long, I expect to hear about it, preferably before I'm policy lynched for it. I'll apply the same principle to everyone else in the game.

On August 31 2012 11:44 Risen wrote:


Yup, see?

On August 31 2012 11:40 Hopeless1der wrote:
Zeph is likely to take care of any actual lurking, but Hapa is right. If I'm too silent for too long, I expect to hear about it, preferably before I'm policy lynched for it. I'll apply the same principle to everyone else in the game.

On August 31 2012 12:21 Mattchew wrote:

imma try to play actively for a couple hours and then in the morning (USA East Coast) but I will drop off significantly after that.

Hapahauli have you played any other games before?

On August 31 2012 12:39 HiroPro wrote:
No. I would policy lynch anyone who abstained.

On August 31 2012 22:01 Solarsail wrote:
This game I plan to vote for people acting anti-town/"crazy" because in XXIV the people who did that were either mafia or very much helping the mafia despite being town by being a huge distraction.

On August 31 2012 16:19 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I sat down and read the whole thread now. I don't know Hapahauli's meta but I agree with Shady Sands' FOS. Hapahauli immediately breadcrumbs the VT rolename "detective" then qualifies/explains the post following it immediately.

Town wouldn't breadcrumb if they know mafia has a safeclaim and they wouldn't breadcrumb without knowing that. He didn't ask. Mafia, however, immediately like to abuse any defense they have. There is inherent guilt. If supplied with a safeclaim it's a very reasonable thing to do. I missed the Zephirrds post about the safeclaims because I'm very unattentive. When I first entered the thread, I only scanned and read the longer posts and made my comments about policy lynches. I forgot the game was starting tonight and saw my role PM right before I was about to watch a movie.

Why would a townie, after making a specific reference to his role name then immediately post that he will no longer be using real role names? Why would he even need to tell us that? Is he afraid someone is going to point it out as an inconsistency? the first two posts in the thread are him and they're both passively defensive. Scum like to announce things that are meaningless for some reason.

In his post history, he only goes on and on about lurkers and other bullshit like that. It's so tired and worthless. "Lurking is anti-town." What a revelation. Mafia are no more likely to lurk than town are and if town goes on a "let's kill the lurkers" bend how easy is it for the scum team to tell everyone on the team to just post a lot? It's stupid.

##vote Hapahauli

On September 01 2012 00:33 Shady Sands wrote:
Where are node and mementoss?

Also, Solarsail seems to be trying to skulk through an active discussion. I don't really like that.

I really don't like this post - I don't think it's a pro-town attitude. Policy lynches aren't "traps" to be sprung, you won't catch scum with a trap you announce beforehand. Policy lynches exist to promote good town behavior, and if you can get that behavior literally any other way, then that's better than the policy lynch.

I find this to be completely insufficient reasoning to justify a vote. It's aggressive for no reason. My impression here is that Hapahauli is voting Hopeless because he doesn't think Hopeless is on board enough with his anti-lurker policy, rather than because he's scum. Sure, lurking can be scummy, but I see no indication why this post would make Hapahauli think Hopeless is scum.

On September 01 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote:
...
Didn't you say you wanted to enforce policy lynches on people that were lurking the town? Or did you just say that because you thought that would be a typical town opener to the game?

On September 01 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote:


Yeah that's correct. I didn't say I found ghost to be scummy because of it, I just feel you can get a more "real" reaction out of someone under more pressure defending themselves without help from another player, especially in a situation so far away from lynch.

BMB I'm awaiting a response from.

Risen hasn't posted enough to make a definite opinion on him.

Didn't you say you wanted to enforce policy lynches on people that were lurking the town? Or did you just say that because you thought that would be a typical town opener to the game?

On September 01 2012 02:07 strongandbig wrote:
...

So the problem with your first point is "bad =\= scum." There are bad townies who don't try very hard to help the town, and if we want to win we need to be lynching scum. Still, another true thing is "thinking bad = scum =\= scum", although "bad=scum" is something scum do sometimes try to push.

On the other thing, I guess you have a point - I think hopeless was being reasonable, but if you thought otherwise and your vote was a pressure vote I guess it could have a town motivation. It would have been really suspicious if you'd just tried to tunnel in on that, though.

Also, many people need to post more in the next few hours. Actually, what if we RNG the policy lynch between the lurkers? That might actually have a better chance of hitting scum than just choosing one, since scum couldn't nudge the RNG towards a scummy lurker. My lurker list currently reads: node, zentor, palmar, solarsail, and mkfuba, although mkfuba will be off soon if he keeps posting like he said he would. Still guys, node hasn't posted since his /in. With Palmar he could be doing anything on purpose as part of some kind of "plan", but he also has only posted once since the game started. If people are proposing a lurker lynch, I think we should come up with a list that a majority of us can agree on and then RNG it using some method.

On the other hand, Marv seems to be proposing a "lynch zentor because he doesn't try" policy lynch. I just don't feel comfortable with that this early in the game, given how grush changed his style in the ptp game. People do change. Still, if zentor doesn't post again a few times before the deadline, I could get on board with it.

You also want to consider lurking to be an exclusively scum trait, which is completely untrue.

On September 01 2012 02:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
...
SnB's point with the bad town vs scum discussion is that scummy players will pick up on things that are bad for town and try to exploit them into a mislynch. He's semi-accusing you of doing this because your assumption that all players know lurking is bad means that the only people who will lurk are either Scum or they're just bad at this game, i.e. Bad Townies. There are no other options based on the way you've explained yourself. You also want to consider lurking to be an exclusively scum trait, which is completely untrue.

On September 01 2012 02:54 strongandbig wrote:


I'm paraphrasing, but basically you say that "anyone who lurks and doesn't help the town deserves to die." This is untrue - we want to kill the scum. Scum don't help the town, but townies often also don't help the town. Scum try and be subtle about it.

On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote:
I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up.

I think the case against blackmamba is bad.

On September 01 2012 03:47 strongandbig wrote:
I've already answered all of this stuff, but I'll pull it together for you.



From the post you quoted literally right above your sentence:



I suggested we RNG a lurker because it's more likely to kill scum, imo, than just choosing one, since they can manipulate that choice.

Seriously the case on him is basically nothing but "he made a bad case". If there's more I haven't seen it explained, so please do.

On September 01 2012 04:25 marvellosity wrote:
ok it's not been discussed at all, but it keeps being pushed.

s&b seems to think that Mamba's case which is full of crap is less scummy than Hapa's pressure vote on Hopeless1der, and it makes no sense to me at all. He says he's not happy to vote someone based on one bad case, but is extremely happy to be suspicious of Hapa pressuring Hopeless.

Why this disparity?

On September 01 2012 05:51 Risen wrote:


Why do you say this? People could easily be persuaded into voting for Palmar. I think the only thing protecting Palmar at this point is his "veteran" status. What's the difference between Palmar and MrZ right now except that MrZ actually dug and found "something"?

Lynch all lurkers is stupid

On September 01 2012 07:25 BlackMamba24 wrote:
...
Anyway can anyone familiar with strongandbigs meta tell me if it is normal for him, as town, to make huge fucking posts immediately and add a ton of bravado like that into anything he says cause if not I'm saying we should lynch him.

On September 01 2012 08:10 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Things must have really changed in TL Mafia if I'm getting bandwagoned for saying I don't like lynch all lurkers and no one responds to the scumtell that when I used to play was typically the one that myself and most veteran players jumped all over on day 1??

what the one against you? how am i pretending it doesnt exist

On September 01 2012 08:25 Shady Sands wrote:

Hapa can you read my ghost case? Please?

On September 01 2012 08:58 MrZentor wrote:
Mhmmm....suuureee.........

On September 01 2012 08:45 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote BlackMamba24

I think I've seen enough. Responses/emotional-defense seem townie to me. Attitudes to his previous case also seem townie enough.

TBH, I'm tempted to lynch Palmar on the basis that he actually gave a shit as town in Normal Mini III.

On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote:


That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him.

On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote:


That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day.

On September 01 2012 09:26 BlackMamba24 wrote:

Why not? tunneling the entire game was like all of a few hours and it seemed to satisfy you so why is it "too easy" when HiroPro likes his answer and not when you like his answer?

Mementoss is attempting to seem useful when his posts actually say very little. His reaction to Hapahauli's questions are to throw doubt and accusations in a nonsensical manner. He's scum.

On September 01 2012 09:49 Node wrote:


I think it's incredibly silly to say that nobody will vote for BM24 when 5 or so people have already swung on to Hiro very suddenly (and with reasoning as minimal as "yeah, sure, why not?"). But as for your case:

I don't think Hiro's done anything explicitly scummy. Yeah, he dropped the case against MM, but seeing as the prevailing opinion now is that MM is safe (otherwise there would be more votes on him), there's nothing wrong with that. His contributions hve been less since then, but I haven't seen anything outright anti-town in his filter (contrast with BM). I've got much stronger scum reads. I'll leave my vote where it is for now.

On September 01 2012 09:49 BlackMamba24 wrote:


BUt I thought the main criticism of HiroPro other than that was that his case was a summation of Hapahauli's suspicions of mementoss? Hapahauli told me himself that after reading his defense he thought MMtoss was town for that. But if HiroPro comes to the same conclusion that makes him scum? don't be stupid.

On September 01 2012 09:59 BlackMamba24 wrote:

That was the post I was referring to. It didn't satisfy HiroPro but it satisfied you so how can you say he dropped his suspicions too quick when you dropped them even quicker?

He didn't drop it because you pressured it, he didn't drop it until MMtoss directly answered his question and main point of his case. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that...

On September 01 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy.
Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum.
Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged.

On September 01 2012 10:15 HiroPro wrote:
ARE YOU FUCKING READING ANYTHING I POST

On September 01 2012 10:16 HiroPro wrote:


No, I don't have any strong scum reads at this point. Risen looks weird to me because he made a case on Shady and then proceeded to go lynch Palmar because he's a troll. But it's not something I'd vote him for.

On September 01 2012 10:21 mkfuba07 wrote:
The vote spread is identical to NMM XXIV, where the top two votes were both townies. After that game it was pointed out that if one of the top votes had been scum, it's likely that there would have been a stronger defense of that candidate. The difference between the two games is that in this case, there was a stronger defense of one candidate. I think that there may have been scum support behind the switch off of Mementoss. The entire situation just feels... wrong to me. I feel manipulated and that always makes me suspicious. I said that he had convinced me of his innocence, but he still sticks out as my top scumread (Yes, I've been caught in a "lie"). I know what effects this can have on my already crappy reputation in this game, but I'm going to...

##Vote Mementoss

On September 01 2012 10:31 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I'm announcing myself as L's right hand and instructing everyone to read the day post. Whatever it is that that means.

Haupa just relax for one minute and take a step back. Why is it scummy to change your mind? why is it scummy to accept someones defense? If his intention was to build a fake case, why didn't he drop it earlier when MMToss initially defending himself? Why continue to pressure then drop it as soon as he gives a more direct answer? That proves, to me, that he had a genuine interest in his case.

On September 01 2012 10:37 BlackMamba24 wrote:
I've been selected to be L's right hand and everyone needs to read the day post

Apparently that means something. I'm restating it. I don't know if I get special powers or whatever now but that's a thing that's just happened.

On September 01 2012 11:06 Risen wrote:


Sands is my scum read. You see any movement to kill him? I don't. I'll lynch the guy who needs to learn a lesson so I don't have to deal with this stuff later.

On September 01 2012 11:13 Solarsail wrote:
##Vote: Risen because Palmar

On September 01 2012 11:23 Solarsail wrote:


Leaves a statement of my intent on the voting record. Since all your choices for lynches are completely terrible.

On September 01 2012 11:26 Hapahauli wrote:


How do you even know they're terrible if you admitted to basically not being able to follow the thread?