Couldn't resist!
Death Note Mini Mafia
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Hapahauli
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Couldn't resist! | ||
Hapahauli
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On August 31 2012 06:37 Zephirdd wrote: Thank you for that. You will have a special place in any future games just because you thought that through. Hapahauli replaces hiro, and game begins tonight normally. Role PMs should be sent somewhere between 40min prior the deadline and the daypost. Any idea approx what time we're starting? | ||
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As with some of my previous games, I'll be advocating a an anti-lurker policy for Day 1. I've seen inactive mafia in both newbie and veteran games time and time again, and I firmly believe it to be the best Day 1 lynching option. | ||
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On August 31 2012 11:24 MrZentor wrote: Hi. sup d00d Ever seen DeathNote before? If so, who's your favorite character? | ||
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On August 31 2012 11:28 MrZentor wrote: Light. <3 You Kira Sympathizer YOUUUUUU! Scum obv. ##Vote MrZentor | ||
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I'd like to hear some thoughts on a policy I'm thinking of... Since we're operating on 24 hour days, there's going to be a lot of chaos on trying to get a read. On Day 1, it will be really easy for us to tunnel and kill a non-articulate townie without that extra 24 hours to take a step back and breathe. I propose that after 12-14 hours, we each take a step back from our pressures/cases (barring a major scumslip from someone) and begin to focus on those who haven't been involved in the game. It'll be very easy for mafia to hide under the chaos of 24 hour days otherwise. Thoughts? | ||
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On August 31 2012 11:32 Risen wrote: ... The only exception to this being the people who said they would be busy pregame so I'll give them a wash maybe (maybe) on those days. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see anyone make any pre-game excuses... so thankfully this isn't a concern. Also, with the OP explicity mentioning people being availible and active over the next 8 days, there's NO excuse for ANYONE to lurk. Lurking, in this setup especially, is anti-town | ||
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On August 31 2012 11:40 Hopeless1der wrote: Zeph is likely to take care of any actual lurking, but Hapa is right. If I'm too silent for too long, I expect to hear about it, preferably before I'm policy lynched for it. I'll apply the same principle to everyone else in the game. I disagree. No one here is a newbie, and every competent town player should know that lurking is bad in a 24 hour setup. As far as I'm concerned, if someone is not putting in the effort on their own after committing to such an intense setup, they are anti-town and deserve significant suspicion. I don't want to have to let anyone know. If someone lurks, my "reminder" will be a D1 lynch hammer, and they'll have to claw their way out to survive. | ||
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Missed that, whoops. I will say I do expect Mattchew to put in some effort. Quality over quantity perhaps. | ||
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On August 31 2012 11:40 Hopeless1der wrote: Zeph is likely to take care of any actual lurking, but Hapa is right. If I'm too silent for too long, I expect to hear about it, preferably before I'm policy lynched for it. I'll apply the same principle to everyone else in the game. Actually waaaaait a minute here. Are you suggesting that you'll be lurky or something? Surely you shouldn't be worried about "reminders" or whatnot if you're indeed pro-town and intend to post? ##Vote Hopeless1der | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless1der | ||
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Does anyone in the game sleep through the lynch-deadline? If so, disclose it now - town needs to know who we can and can't count on to switch votes if necessary. I'm normally pretty active in the 5-6 hours before lynch, and I go to bed a 1-2 hours after. | ||
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On August 31 2012 12:21 Mattchew wrote: imma try to play actively for a couple hours and then in the morning (USA East Coast) but I will drop off significantly after that. Hapahauli have you played any other games before? Other mafia games? I've played 3 newbie minis (XX, XXI, XXIII) if that's what you're asking. | ||
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Abstains? Wut? | ||
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On August 31 2012 12:39 HiroPro wrote: No. I would policy lynch anyone who abstained. Agreed. This needs to be enforced unless there's some nuance about the setup I'm not aware of. | ||
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@BlackMamba24 - The problem with lynching liars is that "lies" in the traditional sense are hard to prove (i.e. fake-claiming), and it's hard to interpret what a "lie" really is. For example, a bad, misleading case can be made by a townie or a mafia member. It's too easy to intepret something like that as a "lie" based on policy as opposed to analysis. However, lynching lurkers is a great way to catch mafia. If you look back in any recent games, a significant portion of the mafia team is usually far less active than the rest of the thread - newbie games or otherwise. Hence my policy. I will say that I have much more to say about this post in particular later in the day... while the day 1 caveat for cases applies, this one is just laughably bad. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=7#136 @ShadySands - I'm trying out a new thing with the voting - I believe it was marv who told me that using "FOS" was for "scumhunters without balls." I'm pulling rough quotes here, but it's my sense that using "FOS" is frowned upon by the normal-game meta. @StrongandBig - Interesting claim, but "detectives" are are green role, and as far as I know, only the blue role ("L") can actually use the detective power. | ||
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On August 31 2012 22:01 Solarsail wrote: This game I plan to vote for people acting anti-town/"crazy" because in XXIV the people who did that were either mafia or very much helping the mafia despite being town by being a huge distraction. Hold up dood, I obsed that game, and only one of the mafia members were acting "crazy" (YourHarry). However, the other two members of the team (Z-Boson and Golbat) were lurking hardcore. So shouldn't you then be focusing your efforts on the latter category? | ||
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Firstoff, BlackMamba only votes me after Shady is suspicious of me. This is small but noteworthy. On August 31 2012 16:19 BlackMamba24 wrote: I sat down and read the whole thread now. I don't know Hapahauli's meta but I agree with Shady Sands' FOS. Hapahauli immediately breadcrumbs the VT rolename "detective" then qualifies/explains the post following it immediately. Town wouldn't breadcrumb if they know mafia has a safeclaim and they wouldn't breadcrumb without knowing that. He didn't ask. Mafia, however, immediately like to abuse any defense they have. There is inherent guilt. If supplied with a safeclaim it's a very reasonable thing to do. I missed the Zephirrds post about the safeclaims because I'm very unattentive. When I first entered the thread, I only scanned and read the longer posts and made my comments about policy lynches. I forgot the game was starting tonight and saw my role PM right before I was about to watch a movie. First, he talks about mafia "abusing defenses." Other than the fact that calling my first two posts a "defense" is insane, look at the last three sentences of the quote. He's already making excuses for his lack of reading and "late" start, even though no suspicion is on him. Mafia try to look less suspicious even though they aren't suspicious. This is made all the worse by your "abusing defenses" comment earlier in the paragraph. Why would a townie, after making a specific reference to his role name then immediately post that he will no longer be using real role names? Why would he even need to tell us that? Is he afraid someone is going to point it out as an inconsistency? the first two posts in the thread are him and they're both passively defensive. Scum like to announce things that are meaningless for some reason. Making a big deal out of nothing - scum love to do that as well. What part of my first post should point to my allignment in any way? In his post history, he only goes on and on about lurkers and other bullshit like that. It's so tired and worthless. "Lurking is anti-town." What a revelation. Mafia are no more likely to lurk than town are and if town goes on a "let's kill the lurkers" bend how easy is it for the scum team to tell everyone on the team to just post a lot? It's stupid. ##vote Hapahauli Well lurking is anti-town. I've explained why and you never offered any reasoning against it. You just disagree with it on semantics. What's with "mafia are no more likely to lurk than town" - mafia are very likely to lurk, and many have lurked in the recent games I've observed (normal and newbie alike). And what do you mean it's easy for the scum team to "tell everyone on the team to just post alot?" That would be AWESOME for town. This is bursting at the seams with anti-town mentality. ##Unvote ##Vote BlackMamba24 | ||
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Regarding BMB's Case - if he's indeed a veteran player on a smurf, shouldn't his bad case be setting off some alarm bells? He basically comes in, argues on semantics about policy lurker lynching, then makes a really bad case. Ghost mentioned the "WIFOM" argument that "he wouldn't make a case that bad as mafia", but from what I gather, he wouldn't make a case this bad as town either, no? As it stands, his behavior is far more anti-town than pro-town, and my vote will stay as is. | ||
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On September 01 2012 00:33 Shady Sands wrote: Where are node and mementoss? Also, Solarsail seems to be trying to skulk through an active discussion. I don't really like that. Speaking of skulking through an active discussion... | ||
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I really don't like this post - I don't think it's a pro-town attitude. Policy lynches aren't "traps" to be sprung, you won't catch scum with a trap you announce beforehand. Policy lynches exist to promote good town behavior, and if you can get that behavior literally any other way, then that's better than the policy lynch. You're mis-interpreting my intent. I'm just saying that we shouldn't have to remind people about their lurkiness. If a player is not taking it upon themselves to establish themeslves as town and make some reads in a game that necessitates activity, they deserve to be lynched. What part of this suggests a "trap?" I find this to be completely insufficient reasoning to justify a vote. It's aggressive for no reason. My impression here is that Hapahauli is voting Hopeless because he doesn't think Hopeless is on board enough with his anti-lurker policy, rather than because he's scum. Sure, lurking can be scummy, but I see no indication why this post would make Hapahauli think Hopeless is scum. Aggressive for no reason? A guy made a comment (that I interpret as possibly scummy) that I want an answer to. Therefore I voted. What's the problem here? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=10#189 If I'm following you correctly... 1) You don't like Ghost's defense of BMB 2) You think BMB is slighly scummy 3) You think Risen is not behaving like his normal town persona Then... you vote Mkfuba for lurking? What? | ||
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On September 01 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote: ... Didn't you say you wanted to enforce policy lynches on people that were lurking the town? Or did you just say that because you thought that would be a typical town opener to the game? Actually, I do use it as a typical town opener - it creates discussion and keeps people on alert for lurking players. And "policy-lynch" is a bit of a misnomer - I'm suggesting pressure on lurkers more than anything else, hence this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=5#88 I think my actions right now are within the bounds of my "policy" - BlackMamba (DrHelvetica I think?) skirted in, made a bad case, and hasn't posted in hours. I want to get some answers. | ||
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On September 01 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote: Yeah that's correct. I didn't say I found ghost to be scummy because of it, I just feel you can get a more "real" reaction out of someone under more pressure defending themselves without help from another player, especially in a situation so far away from lynch. BMB I'm awaiting a response from. Risen hasn't posted enough to make a definite opinion on him. Didn't you say you wanted to enforce policy lynches on people that were lurking the town? Or did you just say that because you thought that would be a typical town opener to the game? The problem I'm having is that you're waiting for opinions and waiting for posts when you have legitimate reasons to pressure posters. What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious? You came in, passively fingerpointed a bunch of players, and aren't pressuring them for information. | ||
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On September 01 2012 02:07 strongandbig wrote: ... So the problem with your first point is "bad =\= scum." There are bad townies who don't try very hard to help the town, and if we want to win we need to be lynching scum. Still, another true thing is "thinking bad = scum =\= scum", although "bad=scum" is something scum do sometimes try to push. What does this even have to do with my first point? I'm suggesting that players who lurk in this format deserve suspicion. This has nothing to do with "bad townies" or whatever. Also, this ain't a newbie game, and I think everyone here knows that lurking is bad for town. Also, I have no idea what your last sentence there means... On the other thing, I guess you have a point - I think hopeless was being reasonable, but if you thought otherwise and your vote was a pressure vote I guess it could have a town motivation. It would have been really suspicious if you'd just tried to tunnel in on that, though. So I'll take it you're no longer suspicious of me then? Also, many people need to post more in the next few hours. Actually, what if we RNG the policy lynch between the lurkers? That might actually have a better chance of hitting scum than just choosing one, since scum couldn't nudge the RNG towards a scummy lurker. My lurker list currently reads: node, zentor, palmar, solarsail, and mkfuba, although mkfuba will be off soon if he keeps posting like he said he would. Still guys, node hasn't posted since his /in. With Palmar he could be doing anything on purpose as part of some kind of "plan", but he also has only posted once since the game started. If people are proposing a lurker lynch, I think we should come up with a list that a majority of us can agree on and then RNG it using some method. No. It prevents players from taking stances on specific players. Sure we could end up lynching a lurking townie D1 - it happens. But the votes give us so much information for future days, and an "RNG" vote deprives us of this. On the other hand, Marv seems to be proposing a "lynch zentor because he doesn't try" policy lynch. I just don't feel comfortable with that this early in the game, given how grush changed his style in the ptp game. People do change. Still, if zentor doesn't post again a few times before the deadline, I could get on board with it. I didn't see anything in Marv's filter about MrZentor... you're talking about momentoss, right? | ||
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You also want to consider lurking to be an exclusively scum trait, which is completely untrue. Acutally, I argue that in this particular gametype with this particular playerpool - it is almost exclusively scummy. Everyone here should know not to lurk as town. | ||
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On September 01 2012 02:27 Hopeless1der wrote: ... SnB's point with the bad town vs scum discussion is that scummy players will pick up on things that are bad for town and try to exploit them into a mislynch. He's semi-accusing you of doing this because your assumption that all players know lurking is bad means that the only people who will lurk are either Scum or they're just bad at this game, i.e. Bad Townies. There are no other options based on the way you've explained yourself. You also want to consider lurking to be an exclusively scum trait, which is completely untrue. Oh, forgot to thank you for clearing up SnB's argument. However, I'm interested why he's accusing me of considering lurkiness inherently suspicious, then turning around and wanting to RNG lynch lurkers? | ||
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On September 01 2012 02:54 strongandbig wrote: I'm paraphrasing, but basically you say that "anyone who lurks and doesn't help the town deserves to die." This is untrue - we want to kill the scum. Scum don't help the town, but townies often also don't help the town. Scum try and be subtle about it. Wait what? But you just were suggesting to RNG lynch a lurker a couple of posts ago! | ||
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I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up.[Quote] But you suggested that we should RNG lynch a lurker!!! [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201[/url] [Quote]I think the case against blackmamba is bad.[/Quote] Whyyyyyy? | ||
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On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote: I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up. But you suggested that we should RNG lynch a lurker!!! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201 I think the case against blackmamba is bad. Whyyyyyy? | ||
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I've already answered all of this stuff, but I'll pull it together for you. [QUOTE]On September 01 2012 03:06 Hapahauli wrote: EBWOP: Reformatted - missed a /quote [QUOTE]On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote: I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up.[/Quote] But you suggested that we should RNG lynch a lurker!!! [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=11#201[/url] [/quote] From the post you quoted literally right above your sentence: [QUOTE]On September 01 2012 03:00 strongandbig wrote: I think I've said it before in this thread, but my position is pretty much always the same. Policy lynches and lurker lynches are almost always a bad idea. The only time they're a good idea is when you don't have any better candidates or cases - or when there's a serious need to force everyone to shape up.[/Quote] I suggested we RNG a lurker because it's more likely to kill scum, imo, than just choosing one, since they can manipulate that choice.[Quote] Nonono see, that's a contradiction, not an explanation. In your original post, you made no mention of "RNG lynching as a backup" or whatever. You were seriously proposing an RNG lynch, which goes directly against the statement I quoted. [Quote]Seriously the case on him is basically nothing but "he made a bad case". If there's more I haven't seen it explained, so please do.[/QUOTE] He's a good player, and made a bad case. I think there's plenty of scum motivation for this. Hell he's been absent from the thread for a while now - don't you find that the least bit suspicious? It's one thing to say that my evidence is insufficient - it's another to say it's bad on D1 when we have nothing else to go by. | ||
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On September 01 2012 03:47 strongandbig wrote: I've already answered all of this stuff, but I'll pull it together for you. From the post you quoted literally right above your sentence: I suggested we RNG a lurker because it's more likely to kill scum, imo, than just choosing one, since they can manipulate that choice. Nonono see, that's a contradiction, not an explanation. In your original post, you made no mention of "RNG lynching as a backup" or whatever. You were seriously proposing an RNG lynch, which goes directly against the statement I quoted. Seriously the case on him is basically nothing but "he made a bad case". If there's more I haven't seen it explained, so please do. He's a good player, and made a bad case. I think there's plenty of scum motivation for this. Hell he's been absent from the thread for a while now - don't you find that the least bit suspicious? It's one thing to say that my evidence is insufficient - it's another to say it's bad on D1 when we have nothing else to go by. | ||
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Thing is with Momentoss, is that I can see a townie posting in that manner. Sure his logic is questionable and he fingerpoints, but that type of post can come from a townie. I have no reason to vote him for now. | ||
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On September 01 2012 04:25 marvellosity wrote: ok it's not been discussed at all, but it keeps being pushed. s&b seems to think that Mamba's case which is full of crap is less scummy than Hapa's pressure vote on Hopeless1der, and it makes no sense to me at all. He says he's not happy to vote someone based on one bad case, but is extremely happy to be suspicious of Hapa pressuring Hopeless. Why this disparity? There's that, and his "policy lynching is a last resourt" + "oh lets RNG lurker lynchhhh" thing. As much as I hate the logic, it doesn't necessarily read scummy to me yet. It's incoherent/inconsistent in a way that could be townie. Also, SnB atleast is putting in effort so far, and I don't know enough about his meta to infer anything but bad townie from it. Do you think he's scummy marv? Have any relevant meta reads on him? | ||
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Especially after seeing this post, him making multiple comments on players before his main suspicion seems to be his style. I think his post is well thought out, and we should be looking at some of the people on his wagon, as well as BMB, given how little attention he's been getting. It fells like the mementoss cases are a counter-wagon to BMB. (Someone with knowledge of mementoss's meta correct me if I'm wrong). | ||
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On September 01 2012 05:51 Risen wrote: Why do you say this? People could easily be persuaded into voting for Palmar. I think the only thing protecting Palmar at this point is his "veteran" status. What's the difference between Palmar and MrZ right now except that MrZ actually dug and found "something"? I'm trying to push a lynch on my top scumread. I really don't know what to make of Palmar, but I find BMB scummy and therefore I'll rally support on him. | ||
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Regarding the case on Shady, I think it's Bad Town rather than Bad Mafia (apologies to the colorblind). Shady's posts read as a stream of consciousness to me, and not necessarily scummy behavior. Also, part of your case mentions guilt-by-association between BlackMamba24 and Shady... so why not vote BM24? | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=13#258 Solid post, good logic, and I agree with most of what he says (still believe BM24 to be more scummy than Shady). Shouldn't that absolve him a bit? | ||
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Lynch all lurkers is stupid You're right - now I'mma gonna lynch you. | ||
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And you have yet to convince me why your case isn't the scummiest thing in the thread. | ||
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On September 01 2012 07:25 BlackMamba24 wrote: ... Anyway can anyone familiar with strongandbigs meta tell me if it is normal for him, as town, to make huge fucking posts immediately and add a ton of bravado like that into anything he says cause if not I'm saying we should lynch him. Pardon my skepticism, but is this really a scumtell? Even if he historically makes smaller posts as town, I can't imagine why making larger posts would make him mafia, even on a meta-basis. | ||
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Also, this post by mementoss doesn't give you any townie vibes at all? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=13#258 | ||
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On September 01 2012 08:10 BlackMamba24 wrote: Things must have really changed in TL Mafia if I'm getting bandwagoned for saying I don't like lynch all lurkers and no one responds to the scumtell that when I used to play was typically the one that myself and most veteran players jumped all over on day 1?? Stop it. You don't have a "bandwagon" on you. Second of all, you're pretending like that case of yours never existed. | ||
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what the one against you? how am i pretending it doesnt exist You said that you're getting voted because you're criticizing the lurker-policy lynch. Oh whoops wait no ppl are voting for you 'cause of your shitty case. Misrespresentation at its finest. Can we invoke lynch all liars here? | ||
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On September 01 2012 08:25 Shady Sands wrote: Hapa can you read my ghost case? Please? Oh sure - will get to that now. Got caught up a bit in other things in the thread. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=15#297 If you think this counts as "jumping on you for lurking" - I don't even know what to say. Either you're just not reading, or you're mafia, or both. @ShadySands - Read your case on ghost, and tbh I still read him as null. Him being inconsistent and whatever isn't necessarily scummy. His sudden switch from indecisiveness to voting for mementoss actually reads as slightly townie to me. It would be really easy for him to avoid that contradiction (as mafia) and yet he didn't. | ||
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I think I've seen enough. Responses/emotional-defense seem townie to me. Attitudes to his previous case also seem townie enough. TBH, I'm tempted to lynch Palmar on the basis that he actually gave a shit as town in Normal Mini III. | ||
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For being useless. | ||
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He's the only guy who's been useless and isn't heading for a modkill. | ||
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On September 01 2012 08:58 MrZentor wrote: Mhmmm....suuureee......... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=19#379 On September 01 2012 08:45 Hapahauli wrote: ##Unvote BlackMamba24 I think I've seen enough. Responses/emotional-defense seem townie to me. Attitudes to his previous case also seem townie enough. TBH, I'm tempted to lynch Palmar on the basis that he actually gave a shit as town in Normal Mini III. | ||
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Relooking at some filters, I'm growing a bit wary of HiroPro, and his actions seem to follow a scum thought-process.
Thoughts? | ||
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On September 01 2012 09:16 BlackMamba24 wrote: That's a bit misleading. He was not convinced at all by MMtoss' first defense and only unvoted after MMtoss cleared it up further. If he was looking for a reason to drop his case, he would have done it sooner than that. MMtoss later addresses HiroPro's main suspicion and the answer satisfied him. That's the interesting part - he tunnels MMtoss until I explicitly point out his "first defense" (the longer post I take it?) to HiroPro. Then HiroPro posts that he's waiting for MMtoss to respond to him. Then he immediately drops his read after MMtoss responds. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=21#401 | ||
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##Unvote Palmar ##Vote HiroPro | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 01 2012 09:24 BlackMamba24 wrote: That's not suspicious. He was saying MMtoss' defense wasn't adequate because he didn't address the point. Then when MMtoss addressed the point, he was satisfied. What's scummy about that? We can't have another bandwagon switch right now, the vote is close and there's not a lot of time left in the day. Because it was too easy. After tunneling MMtoss the entire game, HP was satisfied with just that post? Seriously? I call BS. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 01 2012 09:26 BlackMamba24 wrote: Why not? tunneling the entire game was like all of a few hours and it seemed to satisfy you so why is it "too easy" when HiroPro likes his answer and not when you like his answer? The thing is that it's a very unlikely "thought process" for a townie. Think about it. You make a major case against MMtoss, get 3 people to vote with you, mention nothing about it until someone calls you out for it, then all of a sudden, one magical answer solves all your suspicions? Keep in mind that HiroPro was convinced that MMtoss was scum: Mementoss is attempting to seem useful when his posts actually say very little. His reaction to Hapahauli's questions are to throw doubt and accusations in a nonsensical manner. He's scum. There's no way a townie would drop a read that quickly. Maybe a question or two, THEN dropping the read, but not right away. | ||
Hapahauli
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Before his "Case" against MMToss, he has 8 one-liner posts. He talks about abstaining voters, soft-defends me against SnB, and posts that Hopless1der is "nervous" without ever following up on it. He then posts his "Case", and sounds confident in his read. He only has two posts before I confront him about his read: a soft defense of SnB and a little poke on MMToss, mentioning that he'll take a look at Shady's filter. I confront him about his case and MMToss's post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=15#291 Read from this point on. Look how quickly he gives up his read. He then posts a bunch of one-liners without making reads | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=22#431 I couldn't have lined it out any better. | ||
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On September 01 2012 09:49 Node wrote: I think it's incredibly silly to say that nobody will vote for BM24 when 5 or so people have already swung on to Hiro very suddenly (and with reasoning as minimal as "yeah, sure, why not?"). But as for your case: I don't think Hiro's done anything explicitly scummy. Yeah, he dropped the case against MM, but seeing as the prevailing opinion now is that MM is safe (otherwise there would be more votes on him), there's nothing wrong with that. His contributions hve been less since then, but I haven't seen anything outright anti-town in his filter (contrast with BM). I've got much stronger scum reads. I'll leave my vote where it is for now. There are 2 votes on HiroPro. Don't pull this shit about "5 person voteswing" or whatever - you're being misleading. And MM is not safe. He has 3 votes on him. Are you even reading the thread? | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 01 2012 09:49 BlackMamba24 wrote: BUt I thought the main criticism of HiroPro other than that was that his case was a summation of Hapahauli's suspicions of mementoss? Hapahauli told me himself that after reading his defense he thought MMtoss was town for that. But if HiroPro comes to the same conclusion that makes him scum? don't be stupid. Grawww you're not reading again!!!! I thought MMtoss was town for this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=13#258 HiroPro still thought MMtoss was scummy after that post. He magically dropped his read after this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=15#293 | ||
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On September 01 2012 09:59 BlackMamba24 wrote: That was the post I was referring to. It didn't satisfy HiroPro but it satisfied you so how can you say he dropped his suspicions too quick when you dropped them even quicker? He didn't drop it because you pressured it, he didn't drop it until MMtoss directly answered his question and main point of his case. I don't see what is so hard to understand about that... You actually buy that? Do you think like that as a townie? Clearly not, or you would've accepted the first defense that SnB posted against you insteantly. You don't see it as strange that Hiro doesn't pressure him any more than that after posting his case? Like he insta-dropped his suspicions man. | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 01 2012 10:02 Hopeless1der wrote: Okay well BMB has already gone through why Hapa's case doesn't demonstrate Hiro to be scummy. Hapa still has a point regarding who does Hiro think is scum. Hiro? If your around, we'd be much obliged. Goddamnit townies don't think like that! Townies don't insta-drop cases like that! | ||
Hapahauli
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=15#293 As far as I know, that's it. HiroPro accepted it, and for some reason, you and BM24 accept it at face value. However, let me tell you why this is very unlikely: 1) HiroPro went from extreme suspicion (note the wording, "MMtoss is scum"), to a dropped suspicion in one post. 2) HiroPro still should have reason to suspect MMtoss, even after MMtoss defends himself. People still fnd MMtoss suspicious, yet for some reason, HiroPro accepted the magical answer? 3) HiroPro is happy to poke and prod random townies, but barely makes an attempt to question MMtoss, who is Hiro's main scumread. I could go on, but what more do you need here? I hope you don't actually buy Hiro's excuse. | ||
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On September 01 2012 10:15 HiroPro wrote: ARE YOU FUCKING READING ANYTHING I POST I am, and I'm posting why I think you're full of shit. | ||
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On September 01 2012 10:16 HiroPro wrote: No, I don't have any strong scum reads at this point. Risen looks weird to me because he made a case on Shady and then proceeded to go lynch Palmar because he's a troll. But it's not something I'd vote him for. LOOK AT THIS!! He's not scumhunting! ********************************* | ||
Hapahauli
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Here's a guy who has no active scumreads... hey remember who also had no active scumreads as mafia @ lynch deadline? That's right, you did in Newbie XX. | ||
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On September 01 2012 10:21 mkfuba07 wrote: The vote spread is identical to NMM XXIV, where the top two votes were both townies. After that game it was pointed out that if one of the top votes had been scum, it's likely that there would have been a stronger defense of that candidate. The difference between the two games is that in this case, there was a stronger defense of one candidate. I think that there may have been scum support behind the switch off of Mementoss. The entire situation just feels... wrong to me. I feel manipulated and that always makes me suspicious. I said that he had convinced me of his innocence, but he still sticks out as my top scumread (Yes, I've been caught in a "lie"). I know what effects this can have on my already crappy reputation in this game, but I'm going to... ##Vote Mementoss Yo dawg, what do you think of HiroPro, and the strong defense being mounted for him so far? | ||
Hapahauli
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1) MMToss's first post (fluff/fingerpointing) 2) MMToss's association HiroPro instantly accepts defense to #2 when #1 is still in the air. | ||
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On September 01 2012 10:31 BlackMamba24 wrote: I'm announcing myself as L's right hand and instructing everyone to read the day post. Whatever it is that that means. Haupa just relax for one minute and take a step back. Why is it scummy to change your mind? why is it scummy to accept someones defense? If his intention was to build a fake case, why didn't he drop it earlier when MMToss initially defending himself? Why continue to pressure then drop it as soon as he gives a more direct answer? That proves, to me, that he had a genuine interest in his case. Because a) he made very little effort to question/push his case b) he didn't even address or acknowledge MMToss's earlier post. Plus, It's not like he made the case with the intent of dropping it immediately. It started a bandwagon, and it was going strong even up to MMtoss's first longer post. Then when the bandwagon loses steam and no one else joins, he looks for the first opportunity to drop it. If you're a townie, and you see your bandwagon losing steam, do you drop your case, or do you start pressuring and pushing for your case?? | ||
Hapahauli
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Townies. do. not. think. like. this. | ||
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On September 01 2012 10:37 BlackMamba24 wrote: I've been selected to be L's right hand and everyone needs to read the day post Apparently that means something. I'm restating it. I don't know if I get special powers or whatever now but that's a thing that's just happened. What, you get a PM or something? | ||
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After seeing the votecount here, anyone should know that townies are on the chopping block right now. | ||
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To confirm, voting is NOT mandatory? BioSC posted the exact opposite above. | ||
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On September 01 2012 11:06 Risen wrote: Sands is my scum read. You see any movement to kill him? I don't. I'll lynch the guy who needs to learn a lesson so I don't have to deal with this stuff later. Howbout HiroPro? ...who BTW STILL doesn't have an active scumread or vote. | ||
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On September 01 2012 11:13 Solarsail wrote: ##Vote: Risen because Palmar Wait what? What does this even do? | ||
Hapahauli
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On September 01 2012 11:23 Solarsail wrote: Leaves a statement of my intent on the voting record. Since all your choices for lynches are completely terrible. How do you even know they're terrible if you admitted to basically not being able to follow the thread? | ||
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On September 01 2012 11:26 Hapahauli wrote: How do you even know they're terrible if you admitted to basically not being able to follow the thread? | ||
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##Vote HiroPro | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625¤tpage=22#437 He's basically straight up lying about the voting situation. | ||
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Getting shot by L was pretty :sadface: | ||
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