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TL Mafia LVII
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On August 28 2012 04:27 Toadesstern wrote: is that an /in? I vote ##Yes, that was an /in. | ||
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On August 30 2012 01:51 BroodKingEXE wrote: Whoever does that would be the most selfless third party player ever XD Bah, I took a bullet for Town in LV! | ||
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On September 02 2012 12:10 Lvdr wrote: I'm talking broad strategy. Maybe its just me, but I trust people a lot more before they have role pms, and I've never played a game like this. Save it. Few are here to talk about it now, and this is a perfectly good policy discussion when the game starts. Yes, you trust people more now, but getting a good read is better than finding the best tactic. | ||
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On September 03 2012 00:51 Rewok wrote: There's a word for arguing for arguments sake but I can't remember it. Anybody want to help me out? No there isn't! + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Sure, just let me know if you are mafia. | ||
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On September 04 2012 04:26 strongandbig wrote: wait shit it's my birthday? loooool I forgot edit: ooohhh korean time Congratulations? Game starting now and not tomorrow, got it. | ||
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On September 04 2012 08:22 DoYouHas wrote: I dislike you voting a veteran based on meta. You don´t kill veterans, you wait for them to either 1) crush the scumteam or 2) get shot in the night. If they live too long without doing any good, THEN you maybe consider killing them based on meta. slOosh, my vote is neither stupid nor a throwaway. I have a friend who I consider a better player than me who has told me that getting BM out of the game quickly is always a good thing. It is meta as hell but it isn't stupid. Toad's aggression towards you is completely null. You seem to be playing into your town meta so far, but I really won't know for sure until your first/second case. On September 04 2012 07:49 Miltonkram wrote: Too long, didn´t read. First things first, here is a list of games I've played in and links to my filters from those games. I start all my games with a list like this because it helps me improve. If I'm scum, I have to avoid playing closely to my scum meta. If I'm town, I put pressure on myself to make good reads. The list is spoilered so as not to take up space. + Show Spoiler + NMM XIV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337671&user=240210 I was a Mafia Goon in this game. NMM XV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=340298&user=240210 I was a Vanilla Townie in this game. NMM XVII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=344270&user=240210 I was a Mafia Goon in this game. NMM XVIII: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447&user=240210 I replaced into this game. I was a Vanilla Townie. NMM XIX: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856&user=240210 I replaced into this game. I was a Vanilla Townie. I Can't Believe It's Not Themed MiniMafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147&user=240210 I was a Vanilla Townie in this game. I was also in Normal Mini III as a VT, but I replaced in and wasn't able to be very active. I've got to go to work... on Labor Day T.T I'll be back in several hours. Leave me something to come back to. I´m not usually basing my reads upon meta that the player himself provided. On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote: What do you mean with the bolded part? It doesn´t make sense to me. My general stance is that every blue should ultimately do what they want. The environment of this game should not be about confirming blues and then doing what they say. Just because someone is innocent does not make them right in their convictions or accusations so it isn't of too much help really except for process of elimination. If a town plan arises I'm not gonna be a part of it but I advice blue players to use their own judgment. Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. Don't bother asking me for my reads because I will never post a list of reads and I hate it when other people post "reads". Thanks. On September 04 2012 08:01 slOosh wrote: What is your problem with Toades? Do you think he´s deliberately disruptive? Well BlackMamba's recent post just shows that people can miss information. My post has already proven itself useful, and your opening post which tries to discredit mine has not. Do you think I'm scum by my first post? | ||
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On September 04 2012 09:07 BlackMamba24 wrote: Sorry, I should have been more specific. I wondered about this phrase:I mean that blues should do what they feel is best with their own judgment and ignore any direction from the "town" On September 04 2012 07:55 BlackMamba24 wrote: Never lynch someone just because they wouldn't claim to the town leader or whatever, that's asinine, asiten, asieleven, asitwelve, etc. | ||
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On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote: Why would you claim this? You eliminated yourself as a possible blue from scums list of townies, and it´s not like you doing this eliminates you as a scum suspect. If someone see you visiting a player who dies the we´re lynching you anyway. I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well. The reason people policy lynch people like BM and Grush is because they get by into later in the game because they are unreadable. This is because they barely actually play the game and if you end up in lylo with one of them left, you've basically already lost. I completely understand anyone wanting to policy lynch them, but we should also not allow them to be off the hook for some sort of scum read during the day. That being said, I remember thinking to myself that I don't hate BM's play in the last few games I have been in with him. I do not want to policy lynch today. | ||
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On September 04 2012 09:42 BlackMamba24 wrote: It sounded weird. It´s common for the voteleader to be lynched unless he claims (convincingly). What is there to explain? There's a difference between lynching someone for not backing themselves up after they're caught lying or whatever and lynching someone because they don't trust the town circle. | ||
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On September 04 2012 09:43 Mattchew wrote: Lying to town as a blue is a bad idea. If you fakeclaim nosy neighbor to fool scum, then you risk getting lynched by town. You are still going to draw a few trackers during the first few nights, just to make sure that you are really visiting people at random with no effect, so because of this you might actually be hurting town by distracting blues. Because there is no town benefit to me hiding this information. and for all everyone knows I could be a blue role trying to avoid being incorrectly tracked as well if I get tracked to a dead person atleast there will be something to think about before mislynching me | ||
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You were reacting very strongly to a random vote coming right at the beginning of the game. | ||
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On September 04 2012 10:00 Z-BosoN wrote: Yes, all nightactions, including mafia nightkills, can be detected by watchers and trackers. Hello folks ^^ I would appreciate it if someone could clear some things up, since I've never played in this setup yet. Right now I've noticed this new mechanic: visiting someone. A nosy neighbor will randomly visit someone. This will be caught up by the town watcher and/or tracker. Now what I don't understand: if a medic saves someone, or if a roleblocker blocks some, or if a Suicide Bomber plants a bomb somewhere, or if a goon tks someone, will they also "visit" this person? I´ve never seen you before. Have you been on TL-mafia long? What do you think about the game so far? | ||
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For now: ##Vote: Mattchew He´s a scummy liar and I´m 100% behind BC for calling him out. | ||
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Why do people fakevote, then say "lol, I never really voted!" It´s irritating. Making a vote in this thread might not count but I think it´s bad form. Similarly it´s bad to stealthvote in the other thread without confirming it here. If you want to pressurevote, do it for real. @BM On September 05 2012 05:57 Bill Murray wrote: I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. check this scummy post from forumite 1) misreads the setup 2) attacks him with a smirk for the claim, which looks scummy as shit 3) takes the visiting thing a step further, saying "if they die" which clears a ton of scum roles... forumite is scum with a role FoS: Forumite With Matt looking more and more scummy, do you still accuse me of fishing for his role? Your FoS seem to rely on Matt being a townie, which he´s probably not. On September 05 2012 09:48 Rewok wrote: One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. Been keeping up my reading. Here's how the situation seems to me: We're voting Mattchew today. Pretty much no getting out of that. If he turns up scum, Ottox and a few others could be on the chopping block. If he's town, we've got a whole new set of reads. But it seems to me that our whole strategy hinges on how Mattchew turns up after he's killed. Is there any way we can get another read / another kill set up for D1? One which doesn't hinge on Mattchew's alignment? I'm asking because you guys are way more familiar with the way TL mafia runs. | ||
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On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote: Basically that, if Matt flips town, then BC could be anything, but if Matt flips scum then BC is most likely town, and everyone who defended Matt until Palmars confirmation looks kind of bad. People who defend Matt after Palmars confirmation look bad for creating a disruption over something that is allready decided, that Matt lied and needs to die, but I think most scum jumped on the bandwagon long ago. Allright, Mattchew is set to be lynched. What can we conclude if he flips scum or town? In the unlikely event that he will flip town, will we have enough evidence to go for a BC lynch? My take is, if he flips town, BC's suspicions will go way up, but I don't agree with insta-lynch. We all agreed that fakeclaiming is not something a blue role would do, and is most likely coming from scum. If he flips scum, then we will take a long hard look at the people who insist that he shouldn't be lynched. Ox, as of now, is my top candidate for a lynch. He's been so obnoxious and so annoying regarding the whole Mattchew business that he looks the most suspicious up to now. He also has been of zero usefulness this entire game. @Shiaopi Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed? If Matt is an Assassin then we get rid of both the 3rd Party in return for 2 townies dead. Not a good trade, but I think it´s unlikely that Matt is an assassin. There´s no point in not defending yourself to the end as a 3rd Party, while scum often shut up to avoid giving away any of their buddies. On September 05 2012 14:38 Bill Murray wrote: Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying? No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there. | ||
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On September 06 2012 06:43 Bill Murray wrote: I was trying to figure out if there was any benefit at all of him claiming NN. I was asking questions to understand his motivation, because I was unsure if he was a bad townie or a gambling scum, because I was trying to figure out if I was going to vote him or not. Of course it looked like I was unsure wether to vote him or not, I was! you're jumping to conclusions you could be coaching him into a tracker claim as his scumbuddy (what i thought) because he fucked up, and you were trying to salvage the situation. You're playing dumb, here, which is another scum indicator. I understand engaging in conversation to get a better read of the situation, but to me it felt like you weren't sure whether or not to bus him. How did you not know how nosy neighbors worked? We've used this setup before. Proof he was lying? see my last statement .... he was fucking lying. And no, I didn´t know how NN worked until Palmar cleared it up. I rarely read other games and so didn´t know how this setup played out the last time. I thought it was more likely that they were not selfaware, but there was no proof of that, even the way it worked in another game doesn´t mean this game must work the same way. Was there proof of Matt lying before Palmar posted? Where? | ||
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On September 06 2012 08:01 Maverick32x wrote: Weird, I see what you mean, and I agree. It´s a bad idea to tag you on as a regular suspect at the end of a scumlist. You deserve a top position for your first post on Matt before the Palmar confirmation. That´s a top-grade wishy-washy chainsaw-defence scum post. Why am I being casually FoS'ed? I don't think I've ever seen a solid case against me, but I keep seeing people just drop my name into the list as an add-on without any reason? I find THAT a bit suspicious. On September 04 2012 13:17 Maverick32x wrote: Hey guys- got a chance to catch up and I have a couple thoughts. First- Not totally comfortable voting Mattchew at this point.. I understand the potential for lying about the role claim.. and I'm not a big fan of role claiming in general... HOWEVER- I'd like to reiterate BlackMamba's post that said something to the tune of "ITT- Townies arguing with Townies" because I find that people are so quick to blame each other for stupid stuff that we end up wasting the first couple days with literally zero reason for voting someone besides "They drew a picture".... That being said- I'd like to draw a little bit of attention to the first voter for whom I feel like I can make an actual observation on- Toadesstern. The reason I want to focus on that is just because of the speed at which he strikes out just makes me wonder why that's beneficial from a town perspective? And I'm just wondering if he just wanted to try to promote chaos right away?? Also- consistently attacking other posters seems to be a trend.... My reads: Maverick32x (Scum) Everyone else (Null) | ||
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On September 06 2012 08:21 BlackMamba24 wrote: I think the reasoning goes "Too obnoxious to be scum". why does everyone suddenly think ottoxlol is town Why do you think he´s scum? | ||
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Toades, what do you want most, an answer to the case on me posted during the night, or my top scumreads. It´s late and I´m too tired to do both right now. | ||
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On September 07 2012 07:56 Toadesstern wrote: I have two scumreads right now. I had Ottox down as scum, I was wrong but it shouldn´t affect the other reads. They are both based on the time around Matts claim. The first one is Maverick for his first post in the game, it was a reaction to Matts claim and the situation around it, and he was basically trying to divert attention to everyone else, without committing to anything. The second one is Hapa for his posts during the same time. The post below sums it up well. I don't consider the case on you to be good and I don't agree with it. I want to lynch you because of method or elimination. So I'd rather see you talk about targets for today. On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote: When I read this post at first, I see Hapa buddying up with Matt and throwing suspicion on those attacking him. It didn´t feel right, Matt claiming didn´t arouse any suspicion in him. He said hi to Matt and then chided those attacking him. Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not. Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights? That´s the ones that jumped out at me when reading the thread. Yes, I should reread all the spam from yesterday, I´ll see about that tomorrow. tl;dr: Hapahauli Maverick32x | ||
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Okay, ignore Hapa for a while, and leave the OMGUS out of it. Let´s talk about you. I say you made one of the most wishy-washy initial showings of this game. If this was Dwarf Fortress Mafia, I´d have voted you right away based on that post alone, and in this game I wouldn't have gotten lynched for it. You defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him. This is why you look bad. You wait on responding to this accusation until now, instead of yesterday when I first brought this up, and you do it by calling on the accusations others make on me. I know there are cases on me, but how does that make you look better in any way? And really, you quote the one from Bill Murray? He took back his accusations allready. Quote the ones from the end of the night instead, they are at least fresh. | ||
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On September 07 2012 10:14 Maverick32x wrote: I disagree, you DO need a reason to defend someone. If you didn´t have a very strong townread on him, then the natural thing to do is to wait and see if the case sticks. You defended him, that means you either thought he was a townie (please explain what made you think that), that you thought the case on him was without weight (even though there were nothing and noone supporting Matts claim that NNs are selfaware) or because you wanted him to live for other reasons (this is the alternative where both of you are scum...)I don't even know what Dwarf Fortress Mafia is?? How is that relevant? And yes- I acknowledge I defended Matt because I had no reason NOT to. He had just made a post and a couple people started to jump on him about it. I honestly would not of voted him if Palmer didn't say that NN were not self-aware. I'm not too concerned with 'looking better' but rather trying to scum hunt and win. | ||
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On September 07 2012 13:12 Maverick32x wrote: I don´t think you are paranoid enough for this game. Everyone is a possible scum until they are confirmed or flip. If two players attack eachother, then you look at the conversation to get a feel if one of them are scummy, a case and a defence against that case is a source of information, but if you interfere in a way that shuts down the conversation, then that opportunity for information and analysis disappear. @Forumite- I guess we have different perspectives when it comes to scum hunting? The majority of players are town.. so wouldn't it be smarter to do some 'innocent until proven guilty'? As opposed to just blasting everyone because everyone else is doing it? All this being said- I'm wondering if we should just lynch a lurker? I feel like allowing scum to lurk is a bad plan? As for lurker lynch, why don´t you want to lynch me? You called me scum after the daypost. | ||
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Your case on BKE looks good. He went from treating fakeclaiming as a nulltell to requiring no justification for voting based on it, while the only thing that seemed to have changed was that a bandwagon started, and that Palmar confirmed that NNs are not selfaware. Even after Palmar confirmed, the main reason for Matts lynch was STILL him fakeclaim, the only thing that changed was that we had proof that it was a fakeclaim, but that shouldn´t have mattered to BKE. What might have changed his view of the situation is the number of votes dropping in on Matt. | ||
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After the D2-post you said you didn´t like the case on me provided by Hapless and Hapa, but you still thought I was probably scum. The only reason I remember was elimination, out of the people you stated are vets they are either dead or me, and those who died flipped town. Is that your case, "There should be scum among the vets, and now that some flipped town, the living ones are probably scum"? Because it´s a very convenient thing to say for scum, if people say there must be scum in a group, then scum kill half the group if it´s full of town, and leave it alone if there´s a scum in it so their buddy can hide better. I´m not saying that´s what happened, but it´s shaky to claim this early in a game that the last survivor of a group of must be scum event though the others flipped town. Apart from that you said you thought I wasn´t as aggressive as usual. Partly that is because I don´t keep myself as updated as I usually do due to more stuff happening IRL than usual, but I also don´t want to make the mistake I did in DF-Mafia. Anyway you need more reasons to you call me scum. What is it? | ||
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That´s it? You call me scum based on a feeling that I´m a bit more cautious than usual? I thought there must be something more that I missed but apparently not. BKE didn´t impress me with his reply to the case so I´m putting down my vote. The main reason is, in case I didn´t say before, that if BKE didn´t think a fakeclaim was a reason to lynch someone because it´s a coinflip, then the same should be true for a confirmed liar. Even if he lied it could have been as a blue. BKE gave Matt the benefit of the doubt as to the reason for his claim while the case was young, but didn´t when there were 15 votes on him. ##Vote: BroodKingExe | ||
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On September 08 2012 15:58 BroodKingEXE wrote: This doesn´t really help, you or us. There´s no new information, or at least no new relevant information, a typical scumclaim in that it doesn´t give town anything, and an assassin could throw it together from public information. Your claim doesn´t help town, nor change the case. Guys this lynch is not happening. Its like 12:00 PST I'll make a good case in the morning, but Im forced to say Im Watcher. Night One I visited BC and got back GK -_-. Anyway, explain your reasoning, why visit BC? Further, you are preparing a case, on whom? Who is your big scumread? | ||
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I had a thought: What if scum only have their suicide-bomber kill 2 players with his ability and one of their nightkills, while the others hold their powers? They wouldn´t risk exposing anyone to watchers and trackers, while still getting a decent amount of nightkills. They lose 1 of their 2 nightly KP, save their Vigilante bullets for later, and don´t mind missing a roleblock use because it´s only the medic that they could gain anything from roleblocking. With Matt dying D1, I could see scum getting nervous and doing something like this. tl;dr: The lack of roleblocks and missing scum nightkill is because scum didn´t use all their abilities last night. | ||
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I like the lynch we have and am keeping my vote on BKE, he´s too quiet for a player up for the lynch. I have a read as "useless troll that needs to die" on grush. Seriously, what was that 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 song about? | ||
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On September 09 2012 04:03 BroodKingEXE wrote: Yeah, and while you were here you´ve made cases on Maverick, Shady and Z-boson and a few one-liners, but since your claim you haven´t talked about yourself. You have loads of votes on you, but you focus on pointing out scummier targets instead of defending yourself. What are you talking about, Ive been here. | ||
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On September 09 2012 04:08 Gravan wrote: lol, my thoughts exactlyOkay, reader: You're about to be lynched. The deadline is closing in. You're previous few posts have not convinced the players of the game to sway their votes - the wagon is gaining momentum. What do you do? On September 09 2012 04:08 Gravan wrote: I considered it, but in my experience doctors rarely save people directly, instead they make sure scum either have to doublestack town leaders or kill less attractive targets who are unlikely to get medic-protection. Also: Did you consider the possibility of a doctor (or jailer) healing (or roleblocking) the other mafia KP? | ||
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BroodKingEXE (16) Hapahauli slOosh imallinson Hopeless1der ShiaoPi Rewok DoYouHas Maverick32x Forumite Gravan strongandbig grush57 Toadesstern Shady Sands Z-BosoN Kreb (Miltonkram) DoYouHas (1) Bill Murray ShiaoPi (0) Maverick32x (0) Shady Sands (0) grush57 (1) DarthPunk Z-BosoN (2) austinmcc BroodKingEXE Not yet voted! (1) Lvdr (mkfuba07) | ||
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Final thought before I shut down until tomorrow: Bill Murray, get in here! | ||
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On September 09 2012 07:29 Hapahauli wrote: I noticed this one too, didn´t think more about it at the time. He´s wishy-washy and doesn´t seem to want to take responsibility for the vote, though he´s definetly not the only one going by the "lynch for info" style of thought. Rewok Since BKE flipped town, this caught my eye: First he's hesitant to lynch BKE. Then he wants to vote for him because "it's better to get some blood than no blood" - NOT because he thinks BKE is mafia. He then points fingers at two people (Mav and ShiaoPi). Vigi shot anyone? I don´t want to call a vigishot, not right after failing my read on BKE. | ||
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Toades, we don´t know if Palmar deliberately made sure to put vets on the scumteam. Even if Palmar put vets on the scumteam, I once lost the game for town (as town) by trying to start a wagon on Palmar, because he was leading town too well. Do you think it´s likely he´d try and boost the scumteam by adding me? Also; Bill Murray, get in here. | ||
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On September 09 2012 19:27 Shady Sands wrote: Meh, I don´t think either of you stand out as especially scummy. I´ve been leaning town on Hapa for a while and the recent talk in the thread, what I´ve read of it, doesn´t change that. How about not sweeping the whole Hapa/DP/me disagreement under the rug and commenting on it? | ||
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On September 09 2012 19:37 Bill Murray wrote: Hurry please, you only have 10 hours to prepare a pre-deadline post. hmm? i need to catch up, but i've seen you beckoning me a few times im waiting on an answer from sloosh before i proceed with my isolation on him | ||
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On September 09 2012 20:49 Bill Murray wrote: I´m ignoring your earlier FoS on me. So far the only cases on me have been bad play, less aggressive than usual and "is scum because there must be scum vets, and the other vets flipped town. If you have anything real to add then I´ll listen to it, but I´m tired of weak suspicions without basis in evidence. You know I still am leaning scum on you? Why should I hurry? Anyway you should hurry because you are a vet, you are lurking, you are not helping town right now, and because you might have less than 10 hours to live in this game. That should be enough reason to get active right now. | ||
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About Toades case on me, I´ve been busy and haven´t been putting much effort into the game. Yes, I´m more cautious than my usual meta, which unfortunately puts me closer to how I behaved in Wheel of Fortune Mafia, my scumteam kept a low profile while town lynched eachother, this tactic worked well in that game. There´s not much more to say except that I have some serious rereading to do. | ||
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On September 04 2012 08:22 DoYouHas wrote: Who is this friend who told you to always kill Bill murray? slOosh, my vote is neither stupid nor a throwaway. I have a friend who I consider a better player than me who has told me that getting BM out of the game quickly is always a good thing. It is meta as hell but it isn't stupid. Toad's aggression towards you is completely null. You seem to be playing into your town meta so far, but I really won't know for sure until your first/second case. Yes, an old post but I don´t think it was answered. | ||
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On September 10 2012 10:52 Bill Murray wrote: No luck then. I had a hunch that it might have been a scumslip. I thought DYH heard a policy in the scum-QT, said it in the thread but couldn´t say in the thread where he heard it because it would have made himself and his scumbuddy look bad. He did answer. L. L doesn't feel that way anymore in reality; he's just trolling around with this poor guy, but he got replaced, so why does it matter now? Forumite why are you so scummyyyy | ||
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What I get from rereading the Matt situation is that Z-boson looks very bad. He was avoiding talking about Matt except to softdefend and provides distraction cases until several people had all voted Matt. He then says he´s voting Matt but doesn´t while, providing a very wishy-washy reason for the vote. ##Vote: Z-boson | ||
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Come on guys, ignore the wagon for a while, where are the other scum? When I flip town, who is your next target? I´ve been away a few hours and the only thing that´s happened is that everyone´s said they want to lynch me. Doesn´t anyone have something else to add? | ||
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There are like 8 players that look weird during that crucial period in the game, and that´s without counting the lurkers. =/ | ||
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On September 11 2012 07:26 strongandbig wrote: I think it´s unfortunate that my play while I can put down lots of hours into the game means I look bad when I don´t. I... don't really like this logic. This implies that your own instinct is pointing at someone other than Forumite - who would that be? That said, some logic I do like is the case on Forumite. It's not just that he's been way less "pro-town" and "invested" than usual this game, although that's the biggest part of the case; but I still think there are some sketchy things in his filter - that first "don't lynch vets" post still rankles considering it came from someone who is pretty vet-ish. ##vote: Forumite | ||
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On September 11 2012 07:34 Mementoss wrote: Metaargument, I´m much less aggressive than usual, as well as not being very active scumhunting, almost like my last scumgame, Wheel of Fortune. I can´t really argue with it. I am less aggressive and putting much less time into this game than I usually do. =/I read all of day 3 and no one gave a good reason why they are voting forumite. Can someone explain? I will get to reading through the game eventually but, the way this day is going its just killing discussion. | ||
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On September 11 2012 07:48 imallinson wrote: It´s more than what happened during the Matt lynch, but it´s hard to put down as a case. I´ll see if I find any concrete evidence while rereading. Currently you are looking the most scummy. If you do flip town I'd say the best bet for scum would be Z-Boson. You've voted for him but haven't put much of a reason for people to follow you. It´s tough because there are a few I´m leaning town on, or at least put down as town for now, but there are soooooo many players that look a bit scummy. I often get really paranoid when things go bad, or even when things go well. | ||
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On September 11 2012 07:54 mkfuba07 wrote: Who the hell are you? Where did you come from, and why do you drop such a scummy post? Seriously? "I´m happy with lynching Forumite so I´ll stop looking for other scum now"? I've put my z-boson investigation on hold (more accurate to say it never started, since I just recently woke up) so that I could weigh in on Forumite. I don't know what to add that hasn't been mentioned already, but his "I guess I kind of looked scummy" post is the what's most convincing for me. I hadn't found his vote post to be very suspicious, since it was clear at that point that Mattchew had lied and was clearly scum. This indicates him being defensive without reason. In that same post he tells Rewok to stop looking for other scum, since we already caught one that day. I didn't understand that when he wrote it, and I still don't get it. Why stop scumhunting just because we've found a confirmed scum? Then there's smaller things, like accusing Mav of being scum essentially because he "...defended a confirmed scum during the crucial time during which Matts scumbuddies might have tried to save him." Isn't the time while the fakeclaim is unconfirmed the time when someone is most likely to be unsure about a lynch on someone? If I were in the game at that time I would have likely had second-thoughts about a Matt lynch as well. If there was more to that case that I'm missing, then let me know. I'm still looking at z-boson's filter because I think he's suspicious as well, but I feel comfortable with my vote on Forumite. ##Vote Forumite | ||
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I often read his posts as very nervous and insecure, easily backing away from a stated opinion. Could anyone knowing him from earlier games comment on this? | ||
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If I´m going to get lynched then I´m making sure you at least get my reads. | ||
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On September 11 2012 08:44 Kreb wrote: At least you are honest about it. Anyway, about the Forumite case I cant really say much. Its a meta-argument which I can neither really confirm nor challenge. If the case sticks Im probably just gonna bandwagon. On September 11 2012 08:44 Kreb wrote: Both Z-boson and Bill Murray need to die. Z-Boson is my strongest scumread, and BM because I´m more and more agreeing with DYH. I don´t get Bill Murray, he might be town acting scummy to ward away nightkills, but that´s the only way I can justify his play in this game. But there has been a few cases on BM and lots of people seem suspicious of Z-Boson, so whats your take on those two Forumite? | ||
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On September 06 2012 03:02 strongandbig wrote: S&B, what were you refering to? at least we know bm is town now :p | ||
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On September 11 2012 09:27 mkfuba07 wrote: You replaced in, which is all good and well, but you still inherit the scummyness of the previous player. I´m forced to hold you to a higher standard, so when I see your post which is about how you can possibly accept voting for me, instead of the candidate you were looking at, the one I most want you to lynch, it´s irritating in all sorts of ways. You are a scummy player blaming me for distracting you from your highest scumread, that you say is Z-boson, so once this is all over you can say that Z-boson was the one you wanted to lynch the whole time. Wishy-washy. I replaced in for Lvdr and have been catching up on the over 80 pages of the game. Is there something about my post that you find scummy aside from the single sentence at the end that you misrepresented? I never said I wasn't looking for other scum. I actually said that despite being fine with a lynch on you (read: I think you're scummy) I'm still going to read through z-boson's filter because I believe he's scummy as well. You somehow inferred the opposite. Strange. You were one of a few people I was suspicious of after reading through the thread. I am going to look through z-boson's filter again and post my thoughts on him after I've done so. My vote may change, it may not. Basically, I don't currently feel that a vote on you is wasted. You also misinterpret what I meant in those posts. I´m suspicious of Mav because if he is scum, then he´d have a reason to softdefend Matt and provide alternative candidates when it was possible to do so, townies could do that too but there´s no motivation behind it unless there´s a big flaw in the case, and they really have a good alternative candidate. I´m also fairly sure I never told Rewok to stop scumhunting, what I meant was that when you have candidate X up for a lynch, then it´s a bad idea to try and build cases on based on X being scum. X is lynched on his own scummyness, if you are going to lynch Y then he has to be a good candidate on his own, UNTIL X flips and this puts Y into some kind of suspicious interaction with a confirmed scum. Lynch the scummyest one and build cases based on association AFTER the flip. | ||
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On September 11 2012 19:09 mkfuba07 wrote: I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me. I guess I can accept inheriting Lvdr's scumminess, though it consists entirely of lurking 100% of the time. I can't defend myself against his complete absence from the thread, however, so I'll just leave it at that. I'm in no way blaming you for distracting me from my highest scumread, and have no intention of ignoring ZB. I'm going through his filter now, deciding if all of the "off feelings" I've had have been actually scummy or just bad play. What are your current thoughts on Mav? You said you want Hopeless to die. Is ZB no longer your strongest scumread then? | ||
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On September 11 2012 22:12 Mementoss wrote: Okay, your top read is Mav, but there´s no way he´s getting lynched today, so you throwing away your vote on Mav is indirectly a vote to lynch me. I am at work and don't have much time. Catching up is hard, from my reading so far I think Maverick is scum and will vote him I read the most recent case on forumite but I just don't see it. Hopefully I can finish filling in the gaps of reading tonight and actually post a worthy post of why maverick is scum. I'm hoping I can make deadline today busy day. Why do you want me lynched? You say you don´t see the case on me but you sit on the sideline. Instead, check Z-Boson and Bill Murray, and decide if I´m less scummy than either of those two. If I am, then vote that player. I support you making a case on Maverick, but that can wait until the night. | ||
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On September 11 2012 22:25 imallinson wrote: I could say the same about you. You gave your reasons to vote me, but it was basically agreeing with everyone else. Why don´t you make a case on me? What in this game have I done that´s been actively anti-Town? We know Z-Boson tried to divert the case on Matt and happily chatted away with GK, him and GK having a little dance of friendly FoS back and forth. Don´t you think that´s suspicious? What would be really helpful is if you actually made a case now. You said before that you thought day three was going to be a waste now. Surely you actually contributing something, besides saying a few people are scummy, would help to alleviate that. You posting vague reads on people doesn't help town lynch scum which is the reason everyone is voting for your lynch in the first place. | ||
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On September 11 2012 22:40 DarthPunk wrote: I don´t think anything about their relationship, I think they are both scummy on their own merits and focus on that. They could be both scum and distancing themselves from eachother, or one is scum and the other a scummy townie. Or the top three candidates today are all townies and will occupy discussion all the way to a scum victory, who knows? I just think Bill Murray and Z-Boson are the most scummy of all players, I don´t need any other reason to want to lynch them. If Z - Boson and BM are both your strongest scum reads, How do you resolve the issue that they are making cases on one another? Are they both scum? or are they mutually exclusive? i.e. If BM is scum Z -Boson is town Vice Versa. | ||
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On September 11 2012 23:00 DarthPunk wrote: I dislike most of the case, especially him calling BM out for lying, often a "lie" is the player simply forgetting something instead of scum-motivated. What I do agree with is that it´s very bad of BM to have been gone during the BKE lynch. My opinion of BM is that he doesn´t try to help. We want him to be a town leader and all he does is short posts, cryptic or irrelevant passages, FoS on me, taking back FoS on me, saying he actually always suspected me, back and forth. Fair enough. Yeah I know I need to vote but I am sort of out of the loop so i want some info before I make a decision. At this point though I am leaning towards BM. What did you think of Z -Bosons case on BM? The old cases on me during N1 were weak, and both BM and Toades said so, so I didn´t do much about them except resolving to get more active, and yet it´s those same reasons that are used to get me lynched today. =/ | ||
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On September 11 2012 23:56 Hopeless1der wrote: - Well, I´d hope Bill Murray would at least lead a lynch on a scum sometime during this game. He´s been hanging back, most importantly during yesterdays mislynch. - You want BILL MURRAY to be the leader? The voice of reason, a beacon for us to rally around? Are you kidding me? - Where is this so called activity? Why is it that my posts are never responded to? Am I lurking to hard? For the last time: Forumite, Why should we lynch Z-Boson? Why do you want me to die? Make an effort to explain yourself. For reference, a case on Forumite that is not based on Meta: + Show Spoiler + On September 07 2012 02:43 Hopeless1der wrote: First, my original case on Forumite: + Show Spoiler + On September 04 2012 13:18 Hopeless1der wrote: Supposing we table the nosy-neighbor discussion(which appears to still be going strong), I would like to point out my take on Forumite: "We're lynching you anyway" Not cool. First, I disagree with the notion that revealing yourself as a nosy neighbor is scummy. Oh wait, Forumite didn't really say that. He didn't really say much of anything here if you ask me, but back to the point of "lynching you anyways", I don't like the blanket statements from Forumite. Here's another one: As an aside, "It sounded weird" is not a phrase I like to see. Immediately makes me suspicious. Why are trackers going to be inclined to 'verify' a nosy neighbor claim? Even if Mattchew is scum, he just needs to do something and his claim is still up in the air. Why is Forumite trying to manipulate our blues? There's also the point about lying as a blue. How about lying in general to the town? There isn't any value in this statement. Town is supposedly harmed because our Trackers have to make sure Mattchew is really visiting random people with no effect. And then they get a confirmed townie out of the exchange. Wait, how does that hurt us again? Dat Over-reaction: And then of course slo0sh himself points out: Specifically the last paragraph is what I want noted. Then again, slo0sh addressed the 'strong reaction' in the first part of that quote, but I don't think slo0sh reacted 'strongly' at all. Forumite is just stirring the pot here and not really being helpful to me. He looks like he's pushing discussion, but slo0sh was taking care of that all on his own. We didn't need Forumite to prompt him. I see a lot of roundabout advice from Forumite on why claiming self-aware miller is terrible and how our blues are screwed for it. But nowhere does he tell us that Mattchew is scummy, just that he'll still be suspicious no matter what. His prodding at slo0sh dead-ended pretty quickly and he's ducked out of the thread after making this post: I don't think his posts have contributed anything to getting scum lynched, and I think it is because Forumite is scum. ##Vote: Forumite + Show Spoiler + My followup, continuing my journey through his filter: His entire reasoning for voting matt is to sheep BC: He didn't even read the entire thread through...He initially just tossed his vote in there because BC was so sure of himself, but that wasn't really the case. How do I know this? Because in his next post, he's defending his 'out of place' vote in the spoilered post below: + Show Spoiler + On September 05 2012 11:17 Forumite wrote: Reading through the thread, my vote on Matt looks kind of odd. I made it after I got a PM-confirmation from Palmar but before I saw Palmars post in the thread. Why do people fakevote, then say "lol, I never really voted!" It´s irritating. Making a vote in this thread might not count but I think it´s bad form. Similarly it´s bad to stealthvote in the other thread without confirming it here. If you want to pressurevote, do it for real. @BM I don´t get it. Matt was looking very strange for claiming when there was no benefit in claiming. I was talking to him to try and get a better read. Yes, if Matt was blue then I might have exposed him, but I wasn´t worried about that, I was thinking Matt was either NN or scum. With Matt looking more and more scummy, do you still accuse me of fishing for his role? Your FoS seem to rely on Matt being a townie, which he´s probably not. One lynch at a time. Once Matt is dead, we shut up during the night, and then try to figure out what his flip means tomorrow. We can´t lynch more than one target at a time, so we lynch the scummiest one and worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later. More specifically, pulling from the spoilered post above: It didn't look strange. Feel free the check the timestamps, his vote came after Palmar confirmed the lie. Forumite says he got mod confirmation anyways, but to what avail? This is a defensive statement when there is nothing to defend against. This is scummy behavior. Why did he have to sheep BC if he had mod confirmation? More scummy behavior. Next, he's reading things between lines that I have a hard time seeing. Read BM's post and show me how you came out of that thinking "Well BM is accusing me of bluefishing": Forumite's response to BM: Next is him stifling active discussion and being wishy-washy: He's kind of hedging his bets on what Matt's flip is going to be. This is a step back from when Matt was a scummy liar in his previous post. So what if we can't lynch more than one target at a time? I disagree with the concept of shutting up at night, but I don't necessarily see that as scum motivated. What is scummy is that we can "worry about finding the rest of the scumteam later." This isn't shutting up at night, this is shutting up in general. Rewok phrased his question poorly as an "alternative D1 target", but the basic concept of CONTINUE TO SCUMHUNT is completely valid to me. In the next post:+ Show Spoiler + On September 05 2012 21:19 Forumite wrote: Basically that, if Matt flips town, then BC could be anything, but if Matt flips scum then BC is most likely town, and everyone who defended Matt until Palmars confirmation looks kind of bad. People who defend Matt after Palmars confirmation look bad for creating a disruption over something that is allready decided, that Matt lied and needs to die, but I think most scum jumped on the bandwagon long ago. If Matt is an Assassin then we get rid of both the 3rd Party in return for 2 townies dead. Not a good trade, but I think it´s unlikely that Matt is an assassin. There´s no point in not defending yourself to the end as a 3rd Party, while scum often shut up to avoid giving away any of their buddies. Isn´t that a different accusation? Before you accuse me of trying to get Matt to claim (meaning that you thought I was scum and Matt town), and now you say I´m scum together with Matt. To answer why I didn´t vote Matt early, at the time I was weighing on what Matt was and engaged him in conversation to get a better read, but until Palmar confirmed how Nosy Neighbors works, there wasn´t enough on Matt for me to throw down a vote. Matt was suspicious for claiming NN, but there were no proof that he was really lying at the time. Why should I vote someone who claims a town role unless I have a good reason to think he´s lying? He basically says that if Matt flips red (which he has) then everyone looks kind of bad sometimes because of disruption and bussing something something waffle. Don't count on finding scum using Matt's flip is the message I got from that. This, in addition to his "find scum later" response to rewok reads very scummy to me. He also pushes his luck with BM regarding the bluefishing, which I don't think actually happened and Forumite is twisting the situation to make BM look bad. For the most part, he's shut up other than to call Mav scum and neglect to address the ottoxlol issue. This is null since he said he'd wanted to shut up at night, but with everything else, I'm reading heavily into Forumite being scum. - I´m giving the game the time I can give, but it´s a bloody big game. Lots to read through. At least the thread doesn´t grow that fast anymore, even if that´s because the scum killed the most active posters. - Why Z-boson? I can´t tell, there´s a lot of scumsense and odd posts, but nothing huge and damning. There´s no single thing I can point to that is definetly a scum move, but several that make me suspect there´s a scum motivation somewhere. It´s a big game and the two flipped scum died very, very early, so unfortunately this is the best I can do for now. I´ve gotten a scumread on Z-boson and it´s one of the few that hasn´t changed through the game. I´ve flip-flopped on almost everyone else, but my read on him has been off for a long time. It could just be tunneling of course. | ||
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On September 12 2012 04:27 Hopeless1der wrote: I don´t know, stuff you´ve done. I´m not as sure on you as on Z-boson and BM though, and sometimes I get the feeling you are more likely town. I have 80 minutes left in the game, why do you want me to spend it on making a case on you? If you're going to respond, could you not cherry pick? On September 12 2012 04:37 Mementoss wrote: Mementoss is SCUM SCUM SCUM! When I posted this I was at page 40. I'm at page 59 now. So I still have half the game to catch up on. At this point it won't change whose going to get lynched, but I still have to find out who is scum so I can be helpful day4 Noone cares about Mav, so stop wasting your vote and actually put it on someone that might get lynched tonight. There are only 3 candidates: Forumite Z-Boson Bill Murray Put it on one of them, or I´ll scream at vigis to kill you tonight! On September 12 2012 04:54 Gravan wrote: At this point, my viewpoint is as follows (on the big topics): Bill Murray is still suspicious, but, really, who the fuck knows? Z-Boson is highly suspicious. Forumite is highly suspicious, and very shifty. For somebody who is posting somewhat regularily, he hasn't done too much to defend himself other than point as many fingers as he can as quickly as he can - something that seems really scummy. I wish we had another day to talk about this, heh. ##Vote Forumite. On September 12 2012 04:56 Gravan wrote: FMLTo be a bit more clear: Bill Murray's posting is very difficult to read, and he claims to have had more knowledge than he really ought to have had. That said, he has apparently been playing mafia for a while so he could also have just made a good read. Z-Boson is far too defensive for my liking - it seems like he thinks that every post that isn't in agreement with him, or that pulls the discussion away from his posts, is targeted at him. You explain how all three candidates are scummy, and then vote the one with the biggest wagon. You are SCUM! too. | ||
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On September 12 2012 05:48 Gravan wrote: You haven´t been reading the thread, have you? There are no concrete evidence against me, and the only accusations are based on meta or low activity. There is no way to respond to that! Why not try to clear your name and answer the accusations about yourself as best you can in an attempt to lift votes off you (no matter how futile, at this late hour)? Hopeless (the first person in the game to point a serious finger at you) has even given you this opportunity on a silver platter. Yet, all you continue to do is dodge and slip around, shouting at other people and being selective in your question answering and case-making. You and Mementoss need to be shot tonight. Your two votes, one jumping on the wagon and one avoiding the wagon, are the two most incriminating responses to the current lynch, and that´s saying a lot. | ||
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Scummiest of all scum, should have been lynched today: Z-Boson Bill Murray Scum lurkers, should be shot tonight: Mementoss Gravan Likely Scum, decide for yourselves: ShiaoPi grush57 Is scum because I get soo damn paranoid about town leaders: Toades Old scumreads, might be town: Maverick Hopeless1der I think I might have gotten a scumread on Hopelesswonder after his cases returned, after the first failure they felt like an obstinate scum, but town can tunnel too. Mav, I don´t know, I had a read on him earlier but I never did a real case. ShiaoPi seems to always be there, sneaking around but never pushing himself. He´s been an uncommited voter every single day. grush57 is a huge troll with a lot of oneliners. Watch this one. Toades, I get the same feeling from him as BM, he´s taken a backseat while talking a lot about veterans. Yes, he´s all over the place, but he leaves to others to push lynches. Also he´s the one who told me to ignore weak cases saying I was inactive and wishy-washy, then used that same argument to get me lynched today. Please, please, please kill Mementoss and Gravan tonight, if scum are lurking then those two are the ones. | ||
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On September 12 2012 06:15 Gravan wrote: Nonononono, Mementoss is focusing about unimportant things while he should do a simple thing, try and decide between three people. He might have a read on Mav, but that´s a problem for tomorrow, today he should take a stand for who among Bill Murray, Z-Boson and me who needs to die. Because he´s using catching up as the argument for sitting this one out, he´s scum, and you are scum twice for defending him. As for mementoss wagoning, I am just going to point out that your logic here could be a little flawed. While he is jumping on the bandwagon, he was swapped into the game quite recently and does have a lot of reading to catch up on. Voting is mandatory as you might recall. With that in mind, I am willing to give him this single vote as a grace period - if that excuse keeps coming up, I'll be forced to look at him using it as scum-cover. | ||
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Avenge me! | ||
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On September 12 2012 06:48 mkfuba07 wrote: It´s too late but thanks anyway. My vote is going to go to Z-BosoN. There are just too many aspects of his play that rub me the wrong way. | ||
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Kill Mementoss and Gravan! Avenge me! | ||
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On September 12 2012 07:01 marvellosity wrote: lol"sup guise?" he asked. "Traitor!" they yelled. "no u" Forumite responded. Go Town! | ||
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