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On August 18 2012 20:00 Jhuyt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 16:03 thrawn2112 wrote:
Darthpunk, you have been twisting everything I've said to you into more reasons why I'm scum, and for that I'm going to be looking closely at your filter. It seems like you're less interested in seeing what I have to say and more interested in convincing town I'm scum regardless of my arguments. Goodkarma on the other hand even asked me to defend myself. I can sense sincerity in his motivations but you just seem focused on interpreting everything I say as evidence against me.
@goodkarma
dont worry it's coming I want to say that I had the exact same reaction to Show nested quote +You are right that there is no evidence in either direction to prove or disprove my vig claim. I only vig claimed to give an explanation as to how things could have worked out the way they did if I am town. as he had, simply because from my experience that is the easiest way for a scum to reveal himself. I guess it could also be because you suddenly thought you should write as if you had not claimed you're vigi. From either scum or town perspective that's a really dumb idea because it is, like I have written, a very common scumslip. Right now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I think that it is more urgent for us to lynch YH because of his flip-floppy ways and long posts with almost no content.
The purpose of saying "if I'm town" is to make a distinction between what my motives would be if I'm mafia or town. When trying to explain why I did something, it's important to give reasons why my actions make more sense if I am town than if I'm scum and I thought that using 'if i'm town' was a good way to show that distinction between scum-motives and town-motives.
That was not darthpunk's only post I felt that way about; he seemed to be not paying attention to what I was actually saying for several posts and only responded with short accusations such as "you keep using wifom."
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On August 18 2012 20:00 Jhuyt wrote:Right now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I think that it is more urgent for us to lynch YH because of his flip-floppy ways and long posts with almost no content.
I don't follow your logic there... you are giving me the benefit of the doubt because you would rather lynch yourharry?
Not voting for one player because you would rather vote for another player isn't a bad thing but the way you said it ("I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt") was strange. Do you think I'm town or scum and why?
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On August 19 2012 03:03 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sorry I haven't been posting much lately, had a tough end of week.
Am catching up atm, should be hearing from me soon.
I already read the whole thread, and now will start going more carefully through the filters, especially thrawn's, who was already my top suspect before Shady's lynch and now just seems to be in an even worse spot.
I don't think I'll bother with shady's filter because he was just attacking everyone left and right, with few good points.
However, Archrun's filter and especially mkfuba's filter should provide more information. Assuming that the vigi shot Archrun (doesn't make sense for vigi to shoot mkf), why did mkfuba get shot? This topic is generally overlooked, but I don't think we should ignore the reasoning behind mafia's NK.
I'll see what I can find out, one sec guys!
I tried to point out that mkfuba's lasts posts in the game were about how he had a very strong town read on me. He had the strongest town read on me out of anyone and he gave the best explanations as to why. As was standard for everything I tried to say during N1 people (especially darkpunk) just completely dismissed this as "OMG thrawn more WIFOM." Don't you think that my claim that I shot Archrun is completely in line with everything I had said at the end of D1 and during N1? He was my next target after shady, and I tried to scumhunt him to confirm/deny my suspicions but he never responded to my accusations. I have pointed this out too but by then the town was already of the opinion that they should ignore everything I have to say.
On August 19 2012 00:30 YourHarry wrote:
And flip-flopping of my votes is just reflection of my changing reads on people. Some of my suspicions could have come from gut feeling, but I think I can explain most of my flip flops. I will do it later if people ask me to.
Could you do it? I believed some of your flip flops were sincere at the time they occurred, but when you take into account that you do it over and over the entire game, especially taking into account that many of your flipflops were you switching your reads to line up with what the town was beginning to think, it looks very scummy.
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Z-boson (or anyone else) could you explain to me in greater detail what ochrow's lie was? You said it was in his aug 17 5:54 post. I haven't seen anything that qualifies as a lie but if there is a lie, I'd like to know because I think if someone is caught in a lie they should be lynched. I'm going to go through that post and bold anything that seems weird.
Ochrow's post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:On Archrun: Well for starters I am going to go ahead and ##Unvote. For while I'm still suspicious of Archrun for reasons very similar to those posted above, he was very lurky at a time that I didn't feel like I had any good scum reads (yes shady that means I didn't agree with your witch hunts but that doesn't make me scum. . . ) and once he finally stopped lurking I didn't feel his post carried much weight and so I felt that it was just a filler post pointing out some random person to make him seem less suspicious, I don't feel I have enough to vote him at the moment. Now before people start saying that I am flip flopping and that is scum behavior or whatever that argument is I would just like to point out my reasoning for voting Arch because it is somewhat separate from my reasoning for suspecting him. The reason I went and changed my FoS to a Vote was because I really had no idea how much time we had left, I unfortunately have no perception of the passage of time so I thought that the game had already been going on for long enough that the end might come while I was asleep which it almost did as I only just woke up. And so I wanted to make sure I voted as required. On shady: At the moment I can't be sure if Shady is scum or just crazy aggressive townie though at the moment I am leaning slightly towards townie for the same reasoning I used earlier in the game: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
My two cents on Shady:
My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded. However I do feel that his aggressiveness has progressed to a point where it is almost damaging. The case that he laid down on Thrawn and I was not much different from his original argument against Solar, it was based off of little evidence (oh they both posted at the same time and the second guy read the first ones post and had insider information because he restated stuff that Ochrow had said in a PUBLIC forum) and Shady attacked it with a witch hunt mentality. It seems that Shady is like a shark waiting to smell blood and as soon as he does he just attacks immediately, at least that is the way it seems to me. But nonetheless I still don't feel that this is necessarily scum play, just bad play, but if we don't find any really solid scum (I am not currently sold on any of the reads as I will explain below) I can see him as a potentially good lynch. On Thrawn: I really can't get a read on Thrawn. To be honest when I first read Shady's post I almost instantly began to feel that Thrawn was scum but after reading his defense I do not think that he is. But I will say that I find him a bit too sheepish. It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded, so I feel that this is something we need to look out for because it does feel somewhat scummy. On the case against Thrawn and I: I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all. On YourHarry: As far as the stuff from early on goes I believe his explanation in that he had a mason misread and I think that was it, and as I said before while he was posting very short messages he really didn't appear to have much to say outside of those short messages, but going by his posting history it looks like as soon as he started to get actual reads he began to post them. I feel that his swingyness is suspicious and that his posts haven't been great, particularly the case against GK, but I don't really get a scum read from him. On JHuyt: At the moment he and Golbat are on the top of the Lurker List but I don't have much more than that. However, I don't feel that Archrun's case against him has any merit in light of what Solar has said about his history, and I felt the same way before anyways. On Golbat: I can't really get much of a read because he does only have two posts and even in those two posts he doesn't really do much. He has a one line accusation of thrawn and a few really short reads on people that have been pointed out as big suspects but it is so little that I can't really pull much from it but I don't think he is scum but if he only does two posts a day then I'm tempted to lynch just to narrow things down. So just to wrap it up my top choices for lynches would be Arch, Golbat, and Shady in that order. But I do not feel strongly about the Shady lynch at all, I just think that if he keeps up his witch hunt mentality it could be damaging. So primarily I feel we should lynch Arch or Golbat, Arch for my earlier reasoning and pretty much the same stuff that Stutters said and Golbat for being a lurker.
The first bold edit is an odd thing to say as it sounds like he is already trying to preempt counter arguments, but I think a town player could have done it. The only weird thing about it is its close proximity to the 2nd bold edit, which I honestly have no idea what to make of on it's own. But seeing as how they are two strange comments close to each other and regarding the same topic, it makes me a little suspicious that they are excuses (scum statements) rather than reasons (town statements.)
The third bold edit when he's talking about me: "It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded." This is just not true. Either ochrow is misrepresenting me, or he didn't read the thread. He made this statement after I voted for shady, and that was anything but a bandwagon vote. In fact a lot of people have described it as an OMGUS vote. I can't see how anyone could say I've been bandwagoning if they've read my reasons for voting.
On the next bold edit: ("The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them.") The context for this was defending the accusation that he and I were sharing a qt. He says that "Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post." To me this seems like a bad argument and possibly him trying to deflect everyone onto my case. To say "the fact of the matter" is a very strongly and clearly worded statement that expresses that whatever claim comes next is undeniable truth. Why would ochrow's defense of the "thrawn/ochrow share a qt" claim be him saying that the only possible explanation is that I piggybacked onto his claim? This strikes me as a suspicious defense.
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On August 19 2012 07:04 Golbat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 07:01 thrawn2112 wrote:Z-boson (or anyone else) could you explain to me in greater detail what ochrow's lie was? You said it was in his aug 17 5:54 post. I haven't seen anything that qualifies as a lie but if there is a lie, I'd like to know because I think if someone is caught in a lie they should be lynched. I'm going to go through that post and bold anything that seems weird. Ochrow's post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:On Archrun: Well for starters I am going to go ahead and ##Unvote. For while I'm still suspicious of Archrun for reasons very similar to those posted above, he was very lurky at a time that I didn't feel like I had any good scum reads (yes shady that means I didn't agree with your witch hunts but that doesn't make me scum. . . ) and once he finally stopped lurking I didn't feel his post carried much weight and so I felt that it was just a filler post pointing out some random person to make him seem less suspicious, I don't feel I have enough to vote him at the moment. Now before people start saying that I am flip flopping and that is scum behavior or whatever that argument is I would just like to point out my reasoning for voting Arch because it is somewhat separate from my reasoning for suspecting him. The reason I went and changed my FoS to a Vote was because I really had no idea how much time we had left, I unfortunately have no perception of the passage of time so I thought that the game had already been going on for long enough that the end might come while I was asleep which it almost did as I only just woke up. And so I wanted to make sure I voted as required. On shady: At the moment I can't be sure if Shady is scum or just crazy aggressive townie though at the moment I am leaning slightly towards townie for the same reasoning I used earlier in the game: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
My two cents on Shady:
My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded. However I do feel that his aggressiveness has progressed to a point where it is almost damaging. The case that he laid down on Thrawn and I was not much different from his original argument against Solar, it was based off of little evidence (oh they both posted at the same time and the second guy read the first ones post and had insider information because he restated stuff that Ochrow had said in a PUBLIC forum) and Shady attacked it with a witch hunt mentality. It seems that Shady is like a shark waiting to smell blood and as soon as he does he just attacks immediately, at least that is the way it seems to me. But nonetheless I still don't feel that this is necessarily scum play, just bad play, but if we don't find any really solid scum (I am not currently sold on any of the reads as I will explain below) I can see him as a potentially good lynch. On Thrawn: I really can't get a read on Thrawn. To be honest when I first read Shady's post I almost instantly began to feel that Thrawn was scum but after reading his defense I do not think that he is. But I will say that I find him a bit too sheepish. It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded, so I feel that this is something we need to look out for because it does feel somewhat scummy. On the case against Thrawn and I: I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all. On YourHarry: As far as the stuff from early on goes I believe his explanation in that he had a mason misread and I think that was it, and as I said before while he was posting very short messages he really didn't appear to have much to say outside of those short messages, but going by his posting history it looks like as soon as he started to get actual reads he began to post them. I feel that his swingyness is suspicious and that his posts haven't been great, particularly the case against GK, but I don't really get a scum read from him. On JHuyt: At the moment he and Golbat are on the top of the Lurker List but I don't have much more than that. However, I don't feel that Archrun's case against him has any merit in light of what Solar has said about his history, and I felt the same way before anyways. On Golbat: I can't really get much of a read because he does only have two posts and even in those two posts he doesn't really do much. He has a one line accusation of thrawn and a few really short reads on people that have been pointed out as big suspects but it is so little that I can't really pull much from it but I don't think he is scum but if he only does two posts a day then I'm tempted to lynch just to narrow things down. So just to wrap it up my top choices for lynches would be Arch, Golbat, and Shady in that order. But I do not feel strongly about the Shady lynch at all, I just think that if he keeps up his witch hunt mentality it could be damaging. So primarily I feel we should lynch Arch or Golbat, Arch for my earlier reasoning and pretty much the same stuff that Stutters said and Golbat for being a lurker. The first bold edit is an odd thing to say as it sounds like he is already trying to preempt counter arguments, but I think a town player could have done it. The only weird thing about it is its close proximity to the 2nd bold edit, which I honestly have no idea what to make of on it's own. But seeing as how they are two strange comments close to each other and regarding the same topic, it makes me a little suspicious that they are excuses (scum statements) rather than reasons (town statements.) The third bold edit when he's talking about me: "It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded." This is just not true. Either ochrow is misrepresenting me, or he didn't read the thread. He made this statement after I voted for shady, and that was anything but a bandwagon vote. In fact a lot of people have described it as an OMGUS vote. I can't see how anyone could say I've been bandwagoning if they've read my reasons for voting. On the next bold edit: ("The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them.") The context for this was defending the accusation that he and I were sharing a qt. He says that "Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post." To me this seems like a bad argument and possibly him trying to deflect everyone onto my case. To say "the fact of the matter" is a very strongly and clearly worded statement that expresses that whatever claim comes next is undeniable truth. Why would ochrow's defense of the "thrawn/ochrow share a qt" claim be him saying that the only possible explanation is that I piggybacked onto his claim? This strikes me as a suspicious defense. Wasn't the lie about Solarsail, saying that his posts in this thread match his posts in the rest of TL as far as emotional defense? Cause Solarsail soon after came out and was like "no I was just trolling guys".
No jhyut said that, and it turned out that it wasn't a lie. It doesn't seem like you are paying very much attention to this game and I don't know what to make of that 
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On August 19 2012 07:30 Golbat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 07:09 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 19 2012 07:04 Golbat wrote:On August 19 2012 07:01 thrawn2112 wrote:Z-boson (or anyone else) could you explain to me in greater detail what ochrow's lie was? You said it was in his aug 17 5:54 post. I haven't seen anything that qualifies as a lie but if there is a lie, I'd like to know because I think if someone is caught in a lie they should be lynched. I'm going to go through that post and bold anything that seems weird. Ochrow's post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote:On Archrun: Well for starters I am going to go ahead and ##Unvote. For while I'm still suspicious of Archrun for reasons very similar to those posted above, he was very lurky at a time that I didn't feel like I had any good scum reads (yes shady that means I didn't agree with your witch hunts but that doesn't make me scum. . . ) and once he finally stopped lurking I didn't feel his post carried much weight and so I felt that it was just a filler post pointing out some random person to make him seem less suspicious, I don't feel I have enough to vote him at the moment. Now before people start saying that I am flip flopping and that is scum behavior or whatever that argument is I would just like to point out my reasoning for voting Arch because it is somewhat separate from my reasoning for suspecting him. The reason I went and changed my FoS to a Vote was because I really had no idea how much time we had left, I unfortunately have no perception of the passage of time so I thought that the game had already been going on for long enough that the end might come while I was asleep which it almost did as I only just woke up. And so I wanted to make sure I voted as required. On shady: At the moment I can't be sure if Shady is scum or just crazy aggressive townie though at the moment I am leaning slightly towards townie for the same reasoning I used earlier in the game: Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
My two cents on Shady:
My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded. However I do feel that his aggressiveness has progressed to a point where it is almost damaging. The case that he laid down on Thrawn and I was not much different from his original argument against Solar, it was based off of little evidence (oh they both posted at the same time and the second guy read the first ones post and had insider information because he restated stuff that Ochrow had said in a PUBLIC forum) and Shady attacked it with a witch hunt mentality. It seems that Shady is like a shark waiting to smell blood and as soon as he does he just attacks immediately, at least that is the way it seems to me. But nonetheless I still don't feel that this is necessarily scum play, just bad play, but if we don't find any really solid scum (I am not currently sold on any of the reads as I will explain below) I can see him as a potentially good lynch. On Thrawn: I really can't get a read on Thrawn. To be honest when I first read Shady's post I almost instantly began to feel that Thrawn was scum but after reading his defense I do not think that he is. But I will say that I find him a bit too sheepish. It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded, so I feel that this is something we need to look out for because it does feel somewhat scummy. On the case against Thrawn and I: I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all. On YourHarry: As far as the stuff from early on goes I believe his explanation in that he had a mason misread and I think that was it, and as I said before while he was posting very short messages he really didn't appear to have much to say outside of those short messages, but going by his posting history it looks like as soon as he started to get actual reads he began to post them. I feel that his swingyness is suspicious and that his posts haven't been great, particularly the case against GK, but I don't really get a scum read from him. On JHuyt: At the moment he and Golbat are on the top of the Lurker List but I don't have much more than that. However, I don't feel that Archrun's case against him has any merit in light of what Solar has said about his history, and I felt the same way before anyways. On Golbat: I can't really get much of a read because he does only have two posts and even in those two posts he doesn't really do much. He has a one line accusation of thrawn and a few really short reads on people that have been pointed out as big suspects but it is so little that I can't really pull much from it but I don't think he is scum but if he only does two posts a day then I'm tempted to lynch just to narrow things down. So just to wrap it up my top choices for lynches would be Arch, Golbat, and Shady in that order. But I do not feel strongly about the Shady lynch at all, I just think that if he keeps up his witch hunt mentality it could be damaging. So primarily I feel we should lynch Arch or Golbat, Arch for my earlier reasoning and pretty much the same stuff that Stutters said and Golbat for being a lurker. The first bold edit is an odd thing to say as it sounds like he is already trying to preempt counter arguments, but I think a town player could have done it. The only weird thing about it is its close proximity to the 2nd bold edit, which I honestly have no idea what to make of on it's own. But seeing as how they are two strange comments close to each other and regarding the same topic, it makes me a little suspicious that they are excuses (scum statements) rather than reasons (town statements.) The third bold edit when he's talking about me: "It seems to me that anytime he a read that might be right he just jumps on the bandwagon without posting much of anything different unless heavily prodded." This is just not true. Either ochrow is misrepresenting me, or he didn't read the thread. He made this statement after I voted for shady, and that was anything but a bandwagon vote. In fact a lot of people have described it as an OMGUS vote. I can't see how anyone could say I've been bandwagoning if they've read my reasons for voting. On the next bold edit: ("The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them.") The context for this was defending the accusation that he and I were sharing a qt. He says that "Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post." To me this seems like a bad argument and possibly him trying to deflect everyone onto my case. To say "the fact of the matter" is a very strongly and clearly worded statement that expresses that whatever claim comes next is undeniable truth. Why would ochrow's defense of the "thrawn/ochrow share a qt" claim be him saying that the only possible explanation is that I piggybacked onto his claim? This strikes me as a suspicious defense. Wasn't the lie about Solarsail, saying that his posts in this thread match his posts in the rest of TL as far as emotional defense? Cause Solarsail soon after came out and was like "no I was just trolling guys". No jhyut said that, and it turned out that it wasn't a lie. It doesn't seem like you are paying very much attention to this game and I don't know what to make of that You could probably assume that I didn't pay close attention to the first 24hours of the game. Because I didn't. I had forgotten I even signed up until like halfway through Day1. Why are YOU trying to make it sound like I have no clue what's going on at all? I know exactly what to make of that.
I'm not trying to 'make it sound' like that, I'm flat out stating that you don't have a clue. You even agreed to this. "You could probably assume that I didn't pay close attention to the first 24hours of the game. Because I didn't. I had forgotten I even signed up until like halfway through Day1." You admit not paying close attention to the first 24 hours of the game. You shouldn't have signed up for a game you're not going to participate in... if you are town then you really made the 1st day way more difficult, as did the other lurkers. You were more active from the end of D1 till now which makes me think that you truly were just lurking at the beginning, but you have to see that you've made it really difficult for people to get a read on you.
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On August 19 2012 07:45 goodkarma wrote:
An important component of my case against him is that I believe him and Ochrow have a shared QT, and that their views are eerily similar as though aligned via said QT. If either Ochrow or Thrawn flips red, it gives my "shared QT" case point that much more validity, but I'm not willing to send one possibly innocent player to death just to see if my case is right. First and foremost, we hunt scum, and thrawn's most recent actions feel significantly pro-town to me.
As I've said the posts were a coincidence, so I obviously don't agree with the 'shared qt theory' component of your case. If that is the main component of your case then I urge you to reevaluate your vote because you would be basing your vote on what is a coincidence.
On August 19 2012 07:45 goodkarma wrote:
Even if my shared QT case point doesn't hold water, looking at Ochrow's actions, he is distinctly scummy. He is pretty lurky, and hasn't stuck his neck out on any case argument, spending much of his efforts on a safe "policy lurker vote" against Archrun. His favorite stance on others is pretty much a wishy-washy "I don't know."[
My read on him is he's a lurky scum with no interest in actively participating in scum-hunting. This alone is enough merit to earn my vote. That his flip will provide valuable information on my shared QT case point is an added bonus.
I do agree with this part, and I'm currently waiting on ochrow to respond to my post. If he doesn't give a believable response or doesn't respond at all then I will also vote for Ochrow.
I'm currently waiting on yourharry and ochrow to reply to my posts. I haven't felt that darthpunk's replies to my posts are genuine so if yourharry and ochrow convince me they're town then I will go through darthpunk's filter.
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On August 19 2012 07:45 goodkarma wrote:
He claims that the post timing for both him and Ochrow I pointed out is merely coincidence. While I still find that a little hard to believe, I'm looking at his actions too.
Here is the page where it happened.
Notice that Ochrow and I both made posts on August 15, 5:27 KST. In these posts, we both come to the conclusion that yourharry and solar are town and we use similar reasons causing people to later on (nobody pointed it out when it happened) to think Ochrow and I are sharing qts. Solar and yourharry were definitely in the spotlight at that time, of course they would be the ones who anyone posting would choose to talk about. Do you think that it is more likely that scum thrawn/ochio decided to make posts at the exact same time, about the exact same people, and use the exact same arguments? I say it is more reasonable to think it's a coincidence caused by yourharry and solar being in the town's spotlight. I am not making a wifom argument, because my argument is that you should think that the coincidence option is more likely to be true.
Ochrow puts a FOS on Archrun in that post. I did not. My post contained nothing about Archrun. The post I made about Archrun did not happen until 7:11 KST, just short of two hours later. I quoted Ochrow's 5:27 post to show my agreement that Archrun should be a target, and I gave my reasons for doing so. My reasons happened to look like a rewording of what Ochrow said, because both of the things that we said were true and they were the best reasons anyone would have given for why Archrun should be suspected. The fact that I didn't mention Archrun until a post that happened after the 5:27 posts everyone is looking at, and the fact that I quoted Ochrow's earlier post to show that I agreed with him that Archrun should be pressured makes the coincidence theory even more believable. I did not know what Ochrow was writing at 5:27. After I posted my 5:27 post I read his 5:27 post and then quoted it in my next post to show my agreement with his FOS on Archrun. Despite agreeing with Ochrow about Archrun, my FOS on Archrun came up independently from Ochrow's read. I had looked at all the lurkers, read all their early game filters, and then I choose the one whose posts contained the least substance.
This is all I can possibly say concerning the ochrow-thrawn qt theory. I am not making a wifom argument, as I don't think that from somebody else's perspective that the coincidence explanation and the qt explanation are equally likely. I am very hesitant to post this, but I'm going to go ahead and do it anyway just in case it will convince some of you. I think there are some people who have already closed their minds to the possibility that I'm town so I do not care if they don't accept this post. I'm not going to discuss this issue again because I don't have anything else to say about it and I don't want to waste time.
If I am lynched, when I flip blue all you town players need to go back and look at the filters of whoever made arguments against me, and you should also look through my filter at the scum reads I'm currently working on. Currently I have a case against Yourharry and I've pointed out some odd statements in one of Ochrow's posts. I'm waiting on responses to my cases both from them and from everyone else.
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On August 19 2012 13:30 DarthPunk wrote:Never mentioning Ochrow as a lurker despite FoS on all lurkersYour Harry has NOT ONCE called out Ochrow for lurking, Despite laying a FoS on every other lurker in the game and wanting to potentially policy lynch one of them. Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 12:53 YourHarry wrote:
FOS Golbat Jyhut Stutters and Archrun for lurking.
Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 05:20 YourHarry wrote:
I think the best lurker lynch candidate is Golbat. Stutters and Jyhut don't have many posts, but at
Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 05:38 YourHarry wrote:
Thrawn, it is called policy lynch for a reason. I don't particularly find Golbat scummy, but if someone doesn't post he should be lynched. That's policy. This will encourage more participation in subsequent days. In this post he says it doesn't really matter which lurker is lynched, and yet he has not even mentioned Ochrow at all in his lurker group. Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 05:30 YourHarry wrote:
@Thrawn While there probably is such thing as lynching the best lurker, they are basically all lurkers. I did read your explanation on your choosing Arch, but it doesn't seem substantial to me. Having little content in your post is a scum-tell but when someone is lurking, I think it makes a little difference. All of them have minimal contents in their post, so I disagree with your analysis of Arch being the best lurker.
I think most important thing is how promising is it that these lurkers will become active posters. I see Arch beginning to contribute, now that there are more posts to go on. So I think Arch could be more active from now on, which will give us posts to base our reads on.
If it doesn't matter which lurker is lynched why is Ochrow absent from all the list of lurkers that you originally FoS and why does he not mention him at all when he was clearly lurking.
Harry, seeing as you and ochrow are the people I am most suspicious of, the part I quoted from darthkarma's post is what stood out to me the most, and it's also the part that you gave the weakest argument against. Basically all you said was, and I quote, "please just ignore it."
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harry
I also thought darth's argument about you making alignment based reads was compelling. In each of the cases you do it I hesitatingly believed your reasons, but like I pointed out with your constant one liners, flip flopping, and often flipflopping to the towns agreed safest scum read.... a history of doing such things over and over again throughout the entire game is a pretty compelling reason to vote for you. Not only does that behavior suggest that you are scum but it also suggests that if you are town then none of your reads can be taken seriously.
However you did give explanations of all your flip flops, and if you look at them on their own and disconnected from each other they might be honest mistakes. I'm torn between voting for you or ochrow; if things stay as they are and ochrow does not answer my accusation then I will vote for him. But you're right behind him on the list.
I really want to knwo what you have to say about never mentioning ochrow.
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we need to hear more from solar, ochrow, jhuyt, and gobalt. gobalt made a couple recent posts, solar has made one recent post (if you can call it that) but jhuyt and ochrow have been especially absent. ochrow claimed he was at a lan and fine i'll accept that but he's really going to need to make up for it during this last half of D2
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On August 19 2012 14:58 YourHarry wrote:
@Thrawn
What I did not want to talk about - and I realize I should not have brought it up in the first place- is what I think about Ochrow's role. I got heavy suspicion for doing something similar on Day 1, and there is no merit talking about it - except that I will probably get more suspicion for having more information than I should have - whether or not I was wrong.
As to why I did not call out Ochrow: I was not even aware of it. How many times did I call lurkers out - I did not make sure that I got every single lurkers out. In fact, I thought in one of the list, I copied lurker list provided by previous poster and eliminated names who posted since then. I simply missed him for some reason...
I think that's a pretty weak excuse. The first paragraph you talk about how you don't want to talk about the things you didn't want to talk about, and the 2nd paragraph you say the reason you didn't call ochrow out is because you weren't aware that you weren't calling ochrow out? I'm not sure if I read that correctly .
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On August 19 2012 15:05 YourHarry wrote:EDBWOP: @Thrawn You said this was not your breadcrumb post. What was your intention with the bolded part: Show nested quote +On August 17 2012 14:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
I could not understand why shady was pushing so hard to have me lynched. I had given him sufficient arguments to back down on his claims, and I didn't feel like he was paying attention to any of my responses. My being lynched would benefit the scum team, and so the longer he continued to press his case against me the more and more I thought he was scum. Archrun was another player who moved to lynch me for reasons I didn't think were genuine so I also thought he could be scum. My vote for shady was based on shady being the most vocal, and in my eyes, stubborn about me being scum. The current debate is over whether I or Archrun are scum. Before the vote Archrun said that if shady is town, then I should be lynched. Yourharry is saying that if Archrun is scum, then I am town. My efforts are going to be focused on going through Archrun's filter, and I will post about it if I find something worth bringing up.
I don't think that town should focus 100% on Archrun and I. After I go through Archrun's filter I will also read through the filters of the people most outspoken in the debate over shady/thrawn and I think everyone else should do the same. I realize I haven't posted much of substance, but I thought it was worth saying that Archrun and I shouldn't be the only people investigated. First it seems redundant as town to say "me being lynched is not good for town" but to say in a more active form "me being lynched is good for scum" makes it feel like you are claiming a power role. Second, are you not discouraging the detective to check someone other than you or Archrun?
The first part was to explain why I voted for shady. Look at that bolded part in context with the rest of the sentence and it makes sense. The second part was based on the true statement that archrun and I shouldn't be the only people investigated. It isn't good for town to limit investigations to only two people, and because I accidentally mislynched a green player (shady) I realized that I was being too focused on my reads and not bothering to give a hard enough look at other players.
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I was looking through ochrow's prifile to see if I could verify his claim of going to a sc2 lan and I found this:
"Ochrow was just temp banned for 2 days by Plexa.
That account was created on 2011-11-23 04:05:54 and had 37 posts.
Reason: Actually make that a ban since I warned you earlier in the thread."
source
What happens now?
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On August 19 2012 18:25 DarthPunk wrote:He may just be replaced, although that expression and that you were the one who noticed makes me think he went missing from your QT....
On August 19 2012 15:02 thrawn2112 wrote:
we need to hear more from solar, ochrow, jhuyt, and gobalt. gobalt made a couple recent posts, solar has made one recent post (if you can call it that) but jhuyt and ochrow have been especially absent. ochrow claimed he was at a lan and fine i'll accept that but he's really going to need to make up for it during this last half of D2
On August 19 2012 15:26 thrawn2112 wrote:I was looking through ochrow's prifile to see if I could verify his claim of going to a sc2 lan and I found this:"Ochrow was just temp banned for 2 days by Plexa. That account was created on 2011-11-23 04:05:54 and had 37 posts. Reason: Actually make that a ban since I warned you earlier in the thread." sourceWhat happens now?
I was investigating his claim that he was unable to post because he went to a lan. And that expression would come from both town thrawn and scum thrawn, you're just reading it as coming from a scum thrawn because I think you're already of the mindset to not believe anything I have to say.
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goodkarma:
My vote is either going to ochrow or yourharry. I had already said that I would vote for ochrow if he doesn't respond to my case against him or if his response is worse than yourharry's response (which was pretty weak.) Now that ochio is banned I'm not sure how to proceed but I guess that means if ochrow isn't an option then I will vote for yourharry.
Waiting on mod decision atm
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##Vote Ochrow
If he is modkilled, my vote will probably go to yourharry
I wanna restate this:
On August 19 2012 15:02 thrawn2112 wrote:
we need to hear more from solar, ochrow, jhuyt, and gobalt. gobalt made a couple recent posts, solar has made one recent post (if you can call it that) but jhuyt and ochrow have been especially absent. ochrow claimed he was at a lan and fine i'll accept that but he's really going to need to make up for it during this last half of D2
The only reason why I am not confident in my vote is because we have heard so very little from these players. It's pretty worrying to me that jhuyt, solar, and gobalt have been lurking for pretty much all of day 2. (ochrow as well but he was banned)
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On August 19 2012 22:18 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2012 21:57 thrawn2112 wrote:##Vote OchrowIf he is modkilled, my vote will probably go to yourharry I wanna restate this: On August 19 2012 15:02 thrawn2112 wrote:
we need to hear more from solar, ochrow, jhuyt, and gobalt. gobalt made a couple recent posts, solar has made one recent post (if you can call it that) but jhuyt and ochrow have been especially absent. ochrow claimed he was at a lan and fine i'll accept that but he's really going to need to make up for it during this last half of D2
The only reason why I am not confident in my vote is because we have heard so very little from these players. I t's pretty worrying to me that jhuyt, solar, and gobalt have been lurking for pretty much all of day 2. (ochrow as well but he was banned) Yeha I agree 100 percent with this sentiment.
I'm gonna look at jhuyt's filter... his last post was over 24 hours ago and he has only made 9 posts this game.
My vote is still on ochrow (or obvious) pending what obvious has to say.
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##FoS Jhuyt
First I want to point out that Jhyut only has 9 posts, and has not posted in the last 24 hours. That's not damming evidence but it is pretty shady. I'm going to quote his posts and bold the parts I want to talk about. I'd like to hear what everyone else thinks of how I'm interpreting his posts because I may just be biased against him because of his low post count.
His first post:
On August 15 2012 19:36 Jhuyt wrote:
Ok, after catching up on all the posts I can make my first one: Hi everybody, I have yet to play any games of forum mafia but I've played it a lot on SC 2 and even more IRL.
My experience from other mafia games is that the first day is a dead day and accusations made on the first day rarely holds any water.
Despite that I think that Shady's case against YH is good, he's very inconsistent which in my experience is how unexperienced scum behaves.
I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.
"My experience from other mafia games is that the first day is a dead day and accusations made on the first day rarely holds any water." This is a reasonable thing to say, but he did not follow it up with something along the lines of "therefore I think we should focus on x." He mentions that the first day accusations are worthless but he doesn't offer any kind of scumhunting plan.
"I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted." Again, this could be something that town jhuyt would say but when you look at how he dismisses the possibility of scumhunting without giving an alternative... his first post looks very suspicious.
On August 15 2012 20:18 Jhuyt wrote:
Hmm, you're right, I should try to be more helpful.
On Solar: This is just how he is in general from what I've seen on TL, so I don't have anything there.
On Shady: Shady tries to control the game, which is an act that I don't often see in normal townies, I've most often encountered it when a scum tries to make everybody think he's the sheriff. It is, however, a game of high risk and relies heavily on the actual sheriff being useless. He might be the sheriff as well, and this is why I think the first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think solely based on his posts, they seem consistent.
I still think that YourHarry is something scummy simply because his posting behavior is strange, on everybody else, I need more evidence before making up my mind.
He starts off the post by admitting that his first post wasn't very helpful, but then everything he writes afterwards is exactly in line with the kind of stuff he wrote in his first post. "first day is kinda silly, I don't know what to think" and "I need more evidence before making up my mind."
On August 16 2012 22:35 Jhuyt wrote:
I'm currently at page 15 reading, I haven't been on the computer for ~15 hours so I have a lot to catch up on, I will share my thoughts asap
This post gives off a null read, but I'm quoting it because nothing was said it effectively lowers his post count from 9 to 8.
On August 17 2012 00:07 Jhuyt wrote:
Initial thoughts on the whole Thrawn and Och thing:
Looking through Och's posts about Arch I can't say that they make much sense, he just goes straight after Arch when he hadn't posted anything suspicious in my book. I can only see two reasons for him to do it.
1. He really thinks that Arch is scum for reasons that I can not grasp.
If this is true I don't Och is a townie and Thrawn is scum.
The reason I think this makes Thrawn scum is because he would have just saw a guy going after another and then he followed suit, like scum usually do in my experience.
This is however very unlikely in my opinion, because why wouldn't he go after me who already have suspisions on me?
for this reason, I don't think that Och is townie and Thrawn is scum
2. They are both scum and they decided to single out a guy
This makes sense as to why they would both go on Arch when no one else is doing it, they tried both to be convincing to
get as many people as possible with them and lynch Arch.
This still leaves the question why they didn't go after me instead Arch with suspicions already on me.
While this might not be the strongest of evidence I do think that it's very likely that Thrawn is scum and therefore I will FoS him.
##FoS thrawn2112
This post is the most scumhunting he's done so far, and I'm suspicious of it because of the nature of the post and the last line. He gives some hypothetical scum reads based on information he didn't have (the alignment of ochrow/thrawn.) And then he concludes the post by admitting his post was weak ("While this might not be the strongest of evidence") but then follows that up with ("I do think that it's very likely that Thrawn is scum")
On August 17 2012 02:39 Jhuyt wrote:
Thrawn, I have one question for you which I feel you haven't sufficently answered: What made you feel like Arch was more scummy than Me, Stutter, Golbat or the other lurkers up until the point you decided that Arch was the scummiest?
I'm getting a null/slightly town read from this post because he is actively investigating his scumhunting case against me.
On August 17 2012 04:20 Jhuyt wrote:Show nested quote +The lurkers before that post were gobalt, archrun, jhyut, ochrow, and stutters.
Gobalt had accused me of being scummy, and had expressed belief in solar's innocence during the troll posts
Jhyut made the comment about his outside experience with solar and he softly accused yh of being scummy
Ochrow said he thought solar was town and that shady had read too much into solar's posts
Stutters did not think that shady was right. Stuters didnt think that solar's post was intended as a soft accusaton of stutter's post
Archrun avoided making any reads at all, he was the only lurker to do this and therefore he was my most suspected lurker. Ok, now I know your motivation for Archrun and reading the post by mkfuba07 I don't think you're as scummy anymore. There went my entire thought process of this day, yippie.The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler +On August 17 2012 03:30 mkfuba07 wrote:Trying to get into school is running me ragged, so this will be my only post for the moment. If anyone has specific questions they'd like me to answer, let me know so I can get to those as soon as possible (preferably before the lynch). Since Thrawn seems to be quite the target, I'm going to post my thoughts on him: 1) The SK posts seemed a bit suspicious, but when I read them I got a rather null read. I was obsing a game recently (my apologies for not knowing the exact game name) where it seemed like the entire first 24 hours was spent discussing what a theoretical Tracker should do if he even existed in the game. Asking a question of the more experienced players regarding SKs, and giving his own point of view, doesn't send off any major alarms in my head. He dropped the issue immediately after people said that they basically agreed with him, and he hasn't personally brought them up ever since. 2) Regarding his actions in the Solar issue, I tended to agree with him along the way. Show nested quote +I'm not sure I'm getting why you think this is scummy, could you explain? His posts since that point are what caused me to be suspicious of him, but I never quite understood the reasoning behind your initial interrogation. This quote appears to summarize his thought process quite nicely, and since it was exactly the same as my thoughts I actually got a slight townie read after it. He was suspicious at the right times, and when something didn't make sense he questioned the reasoning of whoever raised that point. 3) Show nested quote +At this point I think YH's alliance hinges on whether or not you believe his story about suspecting solar and gk of being masons. At one point in the game I was willing to indulge the thought that YH and solar were masons based off a weak read I was making, (the extra information YH was hinting at) so it is easy for me to believe that YH did the same. YH, for now I believe your story and do not think either you or solar are scum. This quote makes me lean townie as well. Though I have stated that I didn't agree with the original argument behind YH's reads on solar/GK, Thrawn again comes to the same conclusion as me: that the entire case comes down to that single "Sigh..." comment. Though I was (and still am) suspicious of YH after that case, Thrawn's disagreement over this doesn't reveal alignment to me. The way he's thinking things through is very similar to how I did during my only previous vanilla townie game. 4) The whole Z-Boson/Ochrow situation also has me leaning town. During that entire situation, Thrawn makes efforts to alleviate the confusion that's been caused by Z-Boson's misread, when he could have just sat back and let the misunderstanding grow out of control (especially seeing how readily people in this game have been jumping on single posts to make full cases). With this, I have a firm townie read on Thrawn. 5) I don't see any real evidence of Thrawn and Ochrow coordinating their posts. The entire thing feels contrived to me. This makes me feel that this bandwagon that's started on Thrawn is at least partially supported by scums. This, in turn, gives me an even stronger townie read on Thrawn. 6) His subsequent suspicion of Shady is completely valid in my eyes. If Thrawn is town, then as he's pointed out, the only information he can be 100% sure of is his own alignment. Since he knows he's town, he has a right to be suspicious of someone so zealously pursuing lynching him. His vote isn't instantly OMGUS just because Shady voted for him before. Thrawn has actual reasons for being suspicious, and Shady hasn't, even in my eyes, done a good job of addressing them. Thrawn has been tunneled pretty hard for one of the first cases to have any significant reasoning behind it (the one against Archrun), and I find that incredibly suspicious. While most other players are making cases based on such huge stretches that I find it hard to believe they came to the conclusions they did, Thrawn is being hit hard for providing a case that was based entirely within the context of the thread itself. In short, I truly think that a lynch on Thrawn would be a mislynch. I have some reads on other people that I will try to get up as soon as possible, but I have to leave to take care of school issues right now, and don't want to post half-assed theories without being able to clarify them right away. I will say that I am likely to support a relative lurker lynch, especially given that most of the discussion has been about a player who I've made it clear I have pretty strong town reads on. I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later.
First he says how he has changed his read on me, and no longer thinks I am as scummy as he thought. Then he presents the idea that "either Shady or Thrawn is scum." He decides to vote for shady, because "Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum." I don't think that's a good reason for him to consider shady scum. My being town is not something town players would know, and that was the basis for why I voted on Shady. (in retrospect that was very poor play by me) Jhuyt says that because he believes my reason for accusing Archrun was good so that makes Shady scum, in other words he is saying "I am accepting thrawn's defense of himself therefore shady is scum." I don't think that is a conclusion a town player would or should make. I think a lot of other town players reached that conclusion as well, but after him making the "either thrawn scum of shady scum" suggestion it looks VERY scummy.
On August 18 2012 10:31 Jhuyt wrote:On the case on YourHarry: I have a really hard time following YH's posts, but he seems Scummy to me mainly because of the way he flip-flops between who he finds suspicious from the outset of the game, which is a very strange behaviour. Now this part might be because I have a hard time following his train of thought, but he uses GK's "sigh..." in + Show Spoiler + this post as proof that he is both town and scum on two different occasions. The first one in this post: Show nested quote +GK's post struck me as strange because it made it sound like he knew Solar's alignment. He even starts the post with a "Sigh..." as if the town has been going in the wrong direction. My first suspicion was that they are scums together, but I don't think scums support each other this obviously and directly. GK using such wordings would strongly incriminate him if Solar ever flips scum. Thus, I thought this possibility is not likely. The second on in this post: Show nested quote +I mean, he sighs! You may laugh and say this is trivial, but to me this is an indication of certainty that everyone else who has been suspecting Solar is wrong and he somehow has this knowledge and disapproves.
Then he asks me why I find Solar townie. And exactly 3 minutes later, when I explain to him why I thought Solar was a mason, in this encryptive post that I thought he would understand if he was a mason:
Another thing I think is really weird is how he suddenly goes after Archrun when he says that "if Shady is town then Thrawn is scum and vice versa" and suddenly decides that Archrun is the scummiest player around. The weird thing is that he right before that thinks that Shady is the scummiest read he has but his case against him isn't too strong, but he seems to not use that fact that Shady tries to do a sheep move with his "Everybody let's just vote for Thrawn" line. This should have strengthened his case against him but for some unknown reason he just drops the case entirely for the while. This behaviour is really weird as it is, but if you continue to consider the Darthpunk's idea that he's scum with Thrawn his sudden switch back to vote for Shady makes a whole lot of sense too. Those are my thought's on YH's case for the moment, right now I need to go to bed.
He continues scumhunting, but he never commits to a read and a lot of his statements are hypotheticals dealing with alignments on players that haven't flipped yet. Not much substance to that post.
On August 18 2012 20:00 Jhuyt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 16:03 thrawn2112 wrote:
Darthpunk, you have been twisting everything I've said to you into more reasons why I'm scum, and for that I'm going to be looking closely at your filter. It seems like you're less interested in seeing what I have to say and more interested in convincing town I'm scum regardless of my arguments. Goodkarma on the other hand even asked me to defend myself. I can sense sincerity in his motivations but you just seem focused on interpreting everything I say as evidence against me.
@goodkarma
dont worry it's coming I want to say that I had the exact same reaction to Show nested quote +You are right that there is no evidence in either direction to prove or disprove my vig claim. I only vig claimed to give an explanation as to how things could have worked out the way they did if I am town. as he had, simply because from my experience that is the easiest way for a scum to reveal himself. I guess it could also be because you suddenly thought you should write as if you had not claimed you're vigi. From either scum or town perspective that's a really dumb idea because it is, like I have written, a very common scumslip. Right now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt because I think that it is more urgent for us to lynch YH because of his flip-floppy ways and long posts with almost no content.
I've already called him out on this post. He is giving me "the benefit of the doubt" because he wants to lynch yourharry? That's not something a town player would do. He defends that statement in his last post:
On August 18 2012 21:11 Jhuyt wrote:When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum. The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression.I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion.
That's a reasonable defense if you think that such a misuse of that phrase is likely but I don't think it is. He apologizes for posting it instead of just admitting it was a mistake which IMO is scummy.
The last part, "YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion" gives off a town feeling to it.
In summary his posts rarely give off a town read. He often states how useless his opinions are and his scumhunting is mostly based off of hypothetical scenarios containing information a town player wouldn't have. For that I want to issue a very strong FOS against Jhuyt.
@Obvious: I just saw your post about gk and will post my response to it soon.
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