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On August 15 2012 15:18 Golbat wrote:
So far, I think that the scummiest person i've seen is thrawn. He's not really said much of substance, which is of course understandable being so early in the game, but his fixation on making sure people know there could be an SK in the game is a little bit strange.
Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts.
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I also put a FoS on yourharry.
On August 15 2012 20:19 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 19:58 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 19:32 DarthPunk wrote:On August 15 2012 19:19 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 18:45 DarthPunk wrote:On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote:
I see basically two lines of accusation here.
1) I'm asking a ton of questions and making it look like I'm contributing without actually contributing anything.
2) My two cases on Thrawn and Solar are weak.
In response to 1): First, since it's only 12 hours into D1, there's not much material to work off of. That's why most of the posts have consisted of throwing around questions rather than 400 word case posts. Second, evoking responses, at this stage of the game, is critical. Without a solid base of accusations and counter-accusations in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. Evoking responses is important, but so is providing analysis and content which you have barely done. Without a solid base of analysis and content (especially that which is not a near fraudulent interpretation of something near meaningless) in the first half of the day to work off of, there's no way to actually mine enough material to reliably identify and tunnel scum on the second half of the day. There is not much material to work off yet you have encouraged everyone to bandwagon on the back of your interpretation of one post and solars subsequent reactions. (which are far more suspicious than any case on him you have provided.) On August 15 2012 18:32 Shady Sands wrote:
In response to 2): I'm not certain how you can say your own case on me is any stronger than the cases I've put out on Thrawn and Solar. You seem to imply that since I called out Thrawn for being WIFOM/fluffy, and according to you, I've made more "fluff" posts than he has, then I'm more suspicious. But the case on Thrawn didn't rest on being WIFOM, it rested on the fact that Thrawn led off with an extremely long and odd rant on the SK; the case on Solar likewise didn't rest on that sort of accusation either--rather, it rested on the fact that he was actively being hostile to the town rather than defending himself AND his first post on what the scum was thinking was extremely suspicious. So my case on you is equally as weak as your cases? Yet you are presenting mine as invalid and yours as valid. The crucial difference between us is I have actually posted substantial cases based on the analysis of large amounts of posts in your filter and have followed the case up with additional content. You twisted near meaningless posts made at the very beginning of day one and have made a huge leap of assumption to even provide anything at all. And have followed that up with nothing further aside from fluff. My case is not nearly as weak as yours. The cases you made based on those posts were a gigantic stretch at best. Tunnelling these people without providing additional insight or content is harmful to town. The bigger issue, Darth, is why you are holding me responsible for a lack of analysis and content so far when I've been trying the hardest to get people to commit to reads on people and post more cases. Also, how is this post below: On August 15 2012 12:01 Shady Sands wrote:On August 15 2012 11:43 thrawn2112 wrote:
Shady, can you explain your reasoning for initially jumping all over solar? It could be that you, as mafia, know he is town and are taking advantage of solar's emotional reactions by drawing them out even further and immediately sidetracking everyone onto solar's case.
Still waiting for several people to post up... I'm gonna take a break for an hour or so and I will join back in once more people have posted. Basically I read this: Imagine how scared of posting you would be if you'd signed up for your first game and rolled Mafia. Your posts would be short, infrequent, and not hold any information that disagrees with the general direction so as not to stand out. And it didn't make sense to me. Why would Solar make this post if he's town? It's not pro-town to post on which style a scum might or might be playing. Then I read his post in context of the first post that stutters made, and it seemed like Solar is trying to soft accuse stutters--because stutters post was short, and didn't hold any information that disagrees with the general direction (as telling people to read a guide is about as plain as someone can get.) The second possibility here, aside from soft-accusing stutters, is that Solar is trying to look participatory. He states this himself, later. Why would a townie try to look participatory from his first post onwards? No one has accused Solar of anything yet, so why the desire to look like he's contributing (as opposed to actually saying something of substance instead of guessing at what the scum must be feeling?) Both these possibilities lead to a scum Solarsail. ## FoS Solarsail A lack of content and analysis? I note that you didn't include it in your long train of quotes on me, perhaps because it doesn't fit the picture you're trying to paint. So I ask you: How is the above case a bad case? How does it not provide content or analysis? If you can't find answers to those questions, then I'd respectfully ask you to start applying your own strict standards to YourHarry, who, by your logic, should be a far bigger scum than I am. I have mentioned that case several times. It is largely based on wild and convoluted assumptions in order to lead to anything meaningful. I have said previously you are either more guilty of the things you are accusing him of or are making assumptions based on a largely innocuous post. The not all, but the Overwhelming Majority of your posts are fluff. and the Analysis you do present is bad or a stretch. Which begs the question. Why would you be making such absurd stretches in your 'analysis' unless you are serving an agenda? I will look at Your Harry also. I have only been back for a short while and need to reread the thread. However I find it unusual that you are now, after suspicion has been cast upon you, casting aside your earlier cases without a clear or satisfying reason and trying to shift attention onto Your Harry. Again, you're saying my analysis is bad or a stretch without stating why they're bad. What's wrong with the case I've posted above? What are the holes? Until you can answer those questions, your case on me doesn't help the town. Furthermore, I am not casting aside those cases without a clear or satisfying reason. You're framing me for things I haven't done, which is anti-town. I explicitly stated that I'm moving to YH because I find his behavior even scummier than Thrawn's or Solar's. Furthermore, I stated why I think pushing on Thrawn or Solar when they're not in the thread and can't respond won't generate the sort of discussion that ends up helping the town. I am not framing you for things you haven't done. Why such a melodramatic Defense? You case was bad, because it was based on an assumption and the convoluted scum motivation you presented alongside that assumption. It was a stretch because the assumption you made was a stretch. Your cases bring very little to the table, and unlike XXII you are not confirmed town and cannot get away with such questionable arguments. You explicitly stated you were dropping the cases on them for now. Why not just move on without saying anything? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- With that being said. I strongly encourage everyone to read Your Harry's Filter It is so ridiculous that I feel bad I didn't jump on it sooner. @YOUR HARRY acting like you have some sort of outside information to make a PANTS ON HEAD series of posts is very suspicious and unless you have a rock solid excuse for what your filter currently consists of I have a very large; FoS## Your HarryShow nested quote +On August 15 2012 13:20 YourHarry wrote:
Shady. I guess there is a small chance that I could be wrong. But if I am right, it is not a good idea to reveal this information. Let's move on for now. It is 100% a good idea to reveal this information right now.
It was this post that most confused me out of all of harry's.
On August 15 2012 14:17 YourHarry wrote:
Mkfuba, good question! But not quite correct, I checked my PM before I posted. But you are in the right ball park.
But let's forget everything I said about Solar. I will re-evaluate when more people post.
After re-reading this thread, the 'right ball park' comment immediately caused me to start suspecting harry. It just doesnt seem like something somebody who is town would want to say. It looks like you are trying hint at something without ever saying it, but wouldn't a town player assume that any hints they drop intended for town players might also be picked up on by scum? What ball park are we talking about and why did you say mkfuba's question was a good question?
On August 15 2012 12:09 YourHarry wrote:
Did we just catch 2 scums??
On August 15 2012 12:09 YourHarry wrote:
Shady, don't leave us. Let's find the third scum.
These posts struck me as a little strange. YH is showing an eagerness, in fact the most eagerness out of anyone, to push a conclusion towards whatever reads (of solar and myself) have been presented, reads which so far people have found weak and/or unsubstantiated.
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Policy?
A few people started talking about policy at the beginning and we never actually came to an agreement on that because of solar's trolling. Can we say whether or not we are going to FOS lurkers? Of course this doesnt not mean an automatic lynching, but it will help to keep everyone posting so that we can all get better reads. My vote is that yes, this policy should be put in effect, even though we have almost wasted the opportunity to do so.
Concerning the YH topic:
3 possibilities immediately come to mind:
One, that YH is being honest about him thinking that solar and gk are masons. That will explain basically all of his scummy sounding posting earlier in the game. Two, that he and solar are masons. This would explain his strong conviction that solar is town, and could also explain why he posted like he had information to hide. Three, YH and solar, or maybe just YH is scum. This would also account for the cryptic way he was posting. The only part that I'm having trouble with, is that 4 minutes after voting for me for being suspicious of shady, he unvoted me and changed his vote to solar. 21 minutes later is when according to him, he came up with his 'solar as mason' theory and unvoted again. So if YH is scum and solar is scum, why would YH ever vote for solar in the first place? It could be a sneaky manipulation but i doubt that is the case. This makes me believe that no, YH and solar cannot BOTH be scum. YH's quick changing of votes is what I'm currently looking at to see if I can make any reads as far as YH is concerned.
At this point I think YH's alliance hinges on whether or not you believe his story about suspecting solar and gk of being masons. At one point in the game I was willing to indulge the thought that YH and solar were masons based off a weak read I was making, (the extra information YH was hinting at) so it is easy for me to believe that YH did the same. YH, for now I believe your story and do not think either you or solar are scum.
Solarsail
Just to confirm what I'm thinking, do we all trust solarsail's account of his first few posts, that he was trolling to get responses? I'm assuming we all do? Myself, I believe him. I don't think a player who posts like he initially posted would be able to post how he is posting now unless they were trolling. Initially he was the most scummy player, but at that point in the game less than half the players had even posted. As time went on I began to think that no he's not scum, but he's a town player who just doesn't understand what the tone of this game is supposed to be. Honestly solar you were posting like you had just come in from a sc2 tournament thread, it was very hard to know what to make of that. IMO you actually caused more harm than if you would have allowed the discussion to remain on policy talk. The first few pages of posting were very chaotic and full of people making baseless accusations set by the tone of how you chose to play the game. Yes, I do think that myself and maybe some other people are able to make reads off the situation you created, but I think that those reads could have come regardless of your trolling.
mkfuba07, after reading my post do you agree with my claim that YH is town? If not, why not?
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On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:My two cents on Shady: My initial inclination when I see somebody being as aggressive as he is, this coming only from live games not forum, is that they are scum. However, every single time that I have been in this sort of situation and gotten a scum vibe from somebody being overly aggressive I have been wrong. So for me that history has me thinking that that Shady is town, just an incredibly aggressive one. However at the same time I think that he may be a bit overly aggressive and reading too much into people's posts, as he has made two rather strong accusations against Solar and JHyut that I feel are more or less unfounded. On Solar: As I originally said I felt that his play was not at all pro-town but, assuming he is telling the truth about the acting and that he didn't just pull it out of his ass, he has really turned around and is very much giving off a townie feel. On YH: So far I haven't really been able to get much of a read on him. While he was posting one-liners at the beginning, as he said he was actually able to get his point across in them, granted that his point wasn't always a great one to get across (ie Oh I have a secret read but I'm not sharing it). But since his explanation, which to me seems to be entirely understandable, he too is giving off a town feel. As for any reads I have, in most of the games I've played there has been at least one scum that was just purely a lurker, and as such I get a bit of a scum feeling from Archrun. He has only three posts all only a few sentences, long enough to not be pointed out as one-liners but only just. I guess I also get suspicious of any first post that just focuses on O hai thar I'm a townie yay killing scum. While I know everybody is trying to prove themselves as town I just get bad feelings when the substance of somebody's post is: Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 10:10 Archrun wrote:
As a Townee, I promote any policy that helps us catch scum, but we must back accusation up with evidence(which this policy should provided) and reason. On top of that in his three posts he doesn't get into what he thinks about who might be scum but is just theorizing or throwing out a soft defense. I may be totally off on here but until he posts a bit more or contributes something of substance I am going to throw out ##FoS ArchrunAs per Solar's question I hope this helps, and if there was any curiosity about the reasoning behind my general consensus post, it seemed like a lot of people were in more or less violent agreement over the Solar issue so I wanted to throw out my understanding of events in the hope that it might lead to shorter and/or fewer posts beating that dead horse.
FOS Archrun
Archrun, you have made 3 posts so far and none of them have had anything directly to do with scumhunting.
Can you tell us what you think about shady's claims concerning solar, myself, and newharry?
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Z-Boson, are you thinking that Ochrow has a read on NH that he isn't explaining?
On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
On YH:
So far I haven't really been able to get much of a read on him. While he was posting one-liners at the beginning, as he said he was actually able to get his point across in them, granted that his point wasn't always a great one to get across (ie Oh I have a secret read but I'm not sharing it). But since his explanation, which to me seems to be entirely understandable, he too is giving off a town feel.
What I got from that quote is that ochrow thinks NH could be town. The opening statement of that quote you referenced was "So far I haven't really been able to get much of a read on him" followed by "he too is giving off a town feel." I don't understand if you are saying Ochrow has a town or scum read on NH.
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Yes, NH = YH, my bad.
So to clarify since you didnt actually answer the question, were you saying that ochrow had a town or a scum read on yourharry?
The "as to any motives behind that I can't yet speak" quote is a little ambiguous but I understood it as ochrow being suspicious of shady for shady focusing on solar's first post, but having nothing else to go on he was just leaving it at that, suspicion. What you have accused him of implying is a stretch. I have gone through ochrow's filter and can't a case of him keeping secrets about his read on solar. Could you find/quote/explain that one too?
I do not think your case against Ochrow is very convincing and I believe that you are reading too much into his posts.
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I don't think there's evidence of Ochrow hiding information in the "(ie Oh I have a secret read but I'm not sharing it)" post.
On August 16 2012 05:27 Ochrow wrote:
On YH:
So far I haven't really been able to get much of a read on him. While he was posting one-liners at the beginning, as he said he was actually able to get his point across in them, granted that his point wasn't always a great one to get across (ie Oh I have a secret read but I'm not sharing it). But since his explanation, which to me seems to be entirely understandable, he too is giving off a town feel.
Ochrow wasn't saying that he had a secret read, he was saying that yourharry claimed to have a secret read on solar, which is here:
On August 15 2012 12:24 YourHarry wrote:
Never mind. I am confident Solarsail is town. Move on.
##Unvote
and here:
On August 15 2012 13:20 YourHarry wrote:
Shady. I guess there is a small chance that I could be wrong. But if I am right, it is not a good idea to reveal this information. Let's move on for now.
I think you misquoted Ochrow, that "secret read" statement wasn't about himself.
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I still want to hear what archrun thinks about solar as well some other accusations such as the one against yourharry. He has only made 3 posts so far, and one of them was about policy, and the other two were about the SK question I asked at the beginning of the game. So far I've yet to hear any opinion from archrun about anything relevant.
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I am focusing on Archrun because none of the other scum reads have had very much merit. He is the person who has given the smallest amount of opinion on anything, which means that up until he does it will be impossible to get a scum read on him. I also looked at other people with low post counts, and Archrun was the only one who had not made a claim about anything. This makes him the most suspicious player out of all the lurkers. All I am doing is asking him to post more, and to share his opinions on what has happened so far. Of course I agree that focusing on scum reads is more important than focusing on who has posted the least, but when, as goodkarma said, the conversation is only happening between a handful of people scum reading is difficult.
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@darthpunk
That question was more for my sake than mkfuba's. Shady made some posts accusing yourharry, which was the immediate topic of discussion. I wrote out my view on that topic, since it was the one that had everyone's attention. I didnt care as much as you think I did if mkfuba agreed with my post, but his reasoning for/against my position was what I was trying to learn. Knowing exactly the reasons why a player reads another player as town/scum can give you huge insight into how everyone else is thinking. There are several times in this game where someone has described their read and I have questioned them to find out if their read was weak, strong, or had ulterior motives.
Also it seems to me that confirming somebody is town isn't a waste of time, it will give you new information you didn't have before and you will have a narrower list of who potential scum could be. While it isn't the most important part of the game it isn't useless like you have described.
Concerning scumhunting:
I really think that everyone should confirm an approval of the lurker policy. The main purpose of the policy is to encourage everyone to raise their post count which will make the town's job easier. That's not saying that we all will agree to lynch the player with the lowest post count, but that if there are not any other areas of investigation we will focus on lurkers. I think we're at a point where not much has been accomplished, and people have been making weak reads. At some point which I think is now, we need to start applying pressure on the lurkers. In my previous post I gave reasons as to why I am focusing on Archrun.
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On August 16 2012 12:53 YourHarry wrote:
FOS Golbat Jyhut Stutters and Archrun for lurking. Please do share your current reads.
This more than anything else is what I want to see next in this thread. I would also like to know what their reads were on the earlier cases in addition to their current read. If you are one of those players, you really need to contribute more to the discussion. You're town or you're scum, but either way you're creating more ambiguity and suspicion among the group by not posting.
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On August 16 2012 14:17 Ochrow wrote:
I just can't wrap my head around the reason for Jhuyt to lie.
After seeing Archrun's post I also did a check on solar's post history, and the impression I got was the exact opposite of Jhuyt's. (sorry solar, I think we will all be going through your post history now) It does appear that Jhuyt lied about solar's post history. Does anyone think this is important?
Jhuyt, why did you say that solar was acting 'normal' according to his post history if he wasn't?
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On August 16 2012 15:11 Solarsail wrote:
I will be back in four hours with a full post but I want to address two things
1. I wasn't suspicious of Jhuyt because there was so little to work with. I have him down as a near-lurker and hence '?' for now.
2. Jhuyt and I have a specific history in a specific thread involving some deleted posts. It's understandable him and him alone would say that.
Point 1: You were suspicious of me defending you, but not of jhuyt for defending you? Looking back on what Jhuyt and i said about you, I was the one who expressed more suspicion of you. Yes, I did say that your behavior could be explained by you being town but playing extremely, extremely poorly. What you said is that your first few posts were troll posts, and that is correct if you are town or scum. Both what I said and what you claimed are both along the lines of "solar's first posts are town posts, but they are very unorthodox town posts." This is not dissimilar to things many others said. I also said that because of your posting style I was definitely most suspicious of you at that point in time, just for the reason of it being an odd posting style. Yet you claim that I was a target for being more defensive of you when I clearly said I was suspicious of you while jhyut did not? When you came clean about your troll posts, I as well as the majority vocal opinion at that time believed you. Now that I think back on it, I am not convinced that your early game facade is pro-town behavior. You say you wanted to get discussion going and to get reactions from players, and while that did happen, everyone became sidetracked on the argument between you and shady. That eventually gave way to a few other arguments that were either decided to be weak reads, or the outcome is still very ambiguous.
1: Why would a town player troll his first few posts? You say it is to generate discussion and make reads on people, but these are reads that (if you are town) only you will be able to make unless you can convince everyone else to believe you.
2: Why would a scum troll his first few posts? The answer to that has been made clearly obvious by the first 24 hrs worth of posts in this thread. What you did, regardless of it being pro town or anti town, in my opinion ended up having an anti town effect. If something has an anti-town effect, the easiest and simplest solution is that it was directed by someone who has anti-town motives.
Point 2: That would be an acceptable answer, except that there is absolutely a 0% chance of anyone being able to fact check it. I'm still trying to figure out if there is any reasonable way for me to decide whether or not you're telling the truth about you and jhuyt's past.
I am not yet suspicious of you being scum, mostly because of the strong pro-town vibe I initially got from reading your post-troll posts, but I do think that there are some holes in your arguments which I would like you to explain.
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On August 16 2012 11:24 Shady Sands wrote:
EBWOP: Lead with a shortlist, and end with a single candidate.
I keep refreshing hoping to see your list has been posted... I think that we are very quickly coming upon the end of D1 and it's time to seriously start discussing lynch candidates. As for my read, I'm still in discussion with solar over what I think are holes in his latest posts, so as soon as he gives a response to my concerns I will present my lynch candidate. If solar responds in the next hour or so I will be able to post afterwards, but if that doesnt happen I will post first thing after I wake up.
Possibly going to sleep for the night, but I will keep an eye on this thread for about an hour. My lynch candidate post might come within that time, but expect it after I wake up in 8 or so hours.
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I did some fact checking, and I was able to find the posts between solar and jhuyt that solar mentioned earlier. They happened in the My Little Pony thread on April 4th 2012.
This clears up the problem I had with solar's most recent post, as it confirms that jhuyt would have a good motivation for saying what he said about solar's past behaivor, and it gives an explanation as why solar would suspect someone else (myself) instead of jhuyt for defending him. Still, I do not think that solar's opening posts were effectively pro-town, even if he had good intentions.
A few posts ago I was targeting Archrun because of his low post count (3 at the time, now 4) and worthless posts. Myself and a few others all asked for Archrun, as well as the other lurkers to come in and give their case reads on the established cases. Afterwards, Archrun made a post where the entirety of his argument is based on his assertion that Jhuyt lied about solar's post history. I did a quick search of solar's posts but wasnt able to find anything to suggest that he is usually overly emotional, and so I also started to be suspicious of solar. However, as you can see from my opening statement, I have found additional information that supports Jhuyt's statement.
FOS ARCHRUN
Archrun, I have given a good explanation as to why your case against solar and jhuyt is bad, are there reasons other than Jhuyt's "lie" that cause you to be suspicious of them?
If not, then who would be your lynch candidate instead?
Also, we still havent heard enough from gobalt or stutters .
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Gobalt and Stutters, you guys are gonna make me lose sleep tonight waiting for your posts  I'm getting worried that if I go to sleep at this point I will wake up too late to participate in the lynch discussion.
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Shady, did you read my post about JHyut's claim?
On August 16 2012 19:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
I did some fact checking, and I was able to find the posts between solar and jhuyt that solar mentioned earlier. They happened in the My Little Pony thread on April 4th 2012.
My suspicion of Archrun was independent of Ochrow's orignal post. When I began focusing on Archrun, there were 4 people who had posted 4 times or less. I checked each of their filters and Archrun was the only one who had not given an opinion on anything concerning scum reads or even suspicions of scum. His posts contained the least amount of useful information so he seemed like the 1st lurker I needed to pressure. I even posted this reasoning when I originally called him out the first time.
As for your claims that ochrow and I are scum working together.....well I have no defense to that. If I am town, that is not a falsifiable accusation.
Archrun, what did Gobalt ever say to me? Are you talking about his post 6 hours after the game started, when only a few people had posted so far, where he says I am the scummiest because of my SK comment? If you think that post was scum thrawn trying to distract from scumhunting, then you need to read it again:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference.
I didnt not bold anything just now. I clearly stated that I knew that if there wasn't an SK then it would be a waste our time worrying about one. In fact the whole point of that post was to ask if anyone had any previous experience in a game that had SKs, and if they had any advice on how to approach the issue, or if to even approach it at all.
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On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 19:58 thrawn2112 wrote:Shady, did you read my post about JHyut's claim? On August 16 2012 19:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
I did some fact checking, and I was able to find the posts between solar and jhuyt that solar mentioned earlier. They happened in the My Little Pony thread on April 4th 2012. My suspicion of Archrun was independent of Ochrow's orignal post. When I began focusing on Archrun, there were 4 people who had posted 4 times or less. I checked each of their filters and Archrun was the only one who had not given an opinion on anything concerning scum reads or even suspicions of scum. His posts contained the least amount of useful information so he seemed like the 1st lurker I needed to pressure. I even posted this reasoning when I originally called him out the first time. As for your claims that ochrow and I are scum working together.....well I have no defense to that. If I am town, that is not a falsifiable accusation. Archrun, what did Gobalt ever say to me? Are you talking about his post 6 hours after the game started, when only a few people had posted so far, where he says I am the scummiest because of my SK comment? If you think that post was scum thrawn trying to distract from scumhunting, then you need to read it again: + Show Spoiler +On August 15 2012 09:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
Does anyone have experience playing in a game where a serial killer was a possible role? If there did end up being a serial killer, how big a role did they play and how high would you rate the importance and achieveability of sniffing them out early? In other words, would it be a worthwhile use of the town's time and investigation to try to figure out who, if anyone, is the serial killer? I can see how it would be very important to find out who is SK early on, but I also can see how it might be way more difficult than figuring out who is mafia, and thus not a good use of time. One distinction between the serial killer and the mafia is that the mafia are in communication and will be working together while the serial killer is separated from both town and mafia. Any player who is suspected to be not of town affiliation could either be mafia or SK, so while in either case they are a good target for lynching, having knowledge of their actual role would be way more valuable than just an uninformed hit on a supposed non-town player.
If there isn't an SK, then this line of discussion is a complete waste of time and we would be doing the mafia's job for them, which is why I asked if anyone has experience in games with an SK so that we all can get a better idea of what the risk/reward anaylsis should be on determining whether or not and when to focus on a potential SK.
Concerning shady sand's post, this is my first game so I have no previous history to reference. I didnt not bold anything just now. I clearly stated that I knew that if there wasn't an SK then it would be a waste our time worrying about one. In fact the whole point of that post was to ask if anyone had any previous experience in a game that had SKs, and if they had any advice on how to approach the issue, or if to even approach it at all. I read it, and it doesn't matter to the case on you.
I know, I was telling you because it should change your suspicion about jhyut. Your suspicion of him seemed to hinge on the accusation that he told a lie about solar. I have pointed out that it wasn't a lie, and anyone that wants to check this can go look at the posts on april 4 in the my little pony thread.
On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:But the issue with Archrun is you didn't compare him at all to the other lurkers. Nope. You just went ahead and joined in on Ochrow's accusation of Archrun without even offering any of your own analysis to back it up. Who were those other 3 people who had posted 4 times or less? Can you tell me who you checked?
Yes, I did compare him to other lurkers. You yourself allowed that I said I checked his posts against the posts of 3 other lurkers. The lurkers I checked on were gobalt, archrun, jhyut, ochrow, and stutters. I have explained my reasoning for targeting archun several times.
On August 16 2012 09:49 thrawn2112 wrote:
I still want to hear what archrun thinks about solar as well some other accusations such as the one against yourharry. He has only made 3 posts so far, and one of them was about policy, and the other two were about the SK question I asked at the beginning of the game. So far I've yet to hear any opinion from archrun about anything relevant.
On August 16 2012 10:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
I am focusing on Archrun because none of the other scum reads have had very much merit. He is the person who has given the smallest amount of opinion on anything, which means that up until he does it will be impossible to get a scum read on him. I also looked at other people with low post counts, and Archrun was the only one who had not made a claim about anything. This makes him the most suspicious player out of all the lurkers. All I am doing is asking him to post more, and to share his opinions on what has happened so far. Of course I agree that focusing on scum reads is more important than focusing on who has posted the least, but when, as goodkarma said, the conversation is only happening between a handful of people scum reading is difficult.
On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:And of course you can't defend yourself from the blatant double-teaming you and Ochrow are doing. Anyone who has been in the thread in the past day can tell.
Like I said before, there is nothing I can say to convince you that Ochrow and I are not coordinating our posts. There is really nothing I can say against this claim. You are taking this claim so seriously and are so insistent on it that I am beginning to think you might be scum. You say "Anyone who has been in the thread in the past day can tell," as if there is absolutely no way that everyone won't all come to the same conclusion as you. How convenient.... the part of your argument that you are most adamant about is also the only part of the argument that is impossible for me to disprove.
On August 16 2012 20:07 Shady Sands wrote:Finally, on your SK post, why would you make a post that you knew to be a complete waste of time? Answer: scum who needs to look busy... or look cute by feigning ignorance as to whether there is an SK or not (when such information is available on in the OP to this thread.)
I didn't know it was a waste of time, I was asking other people if looking for an SK was a waste of time. I completely dropped the issue after it was obvious that nobody else thought it was worth talking about. It was the 5th post of the entire game, there was nothing else besides standard policy being talked about.
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On August 16 2012 20:56 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On August 16 2012 20:24 goodkarma wrote:On August 16 2012 19:42 Shady Sands wrote:
I am going to say this again very clearly:
## Vote Thrawn2112, ## FoS Ochrow
Everyone just do it. My response to this can be summarized in one word: NO.The absolute last thing we need is for everyone to sheep onto a candidate. Everyone who hasn't voted needs to clearly spell out their scum suspects and their reasoning for voting for who they do. Our reasoning for our lynch candidates is just as important (if not more) than who we choose on day one. Sheeping leads to two scenarios: What information do we get on everyone's motivations if we mislynch? Pretty much nothing... Well, everyone voted for this one person because they were told to. It pretty much leads to day two turning into an extended day one. The vote will have meant pretty much nothing, since everyone blindly ganged up on the wrong candidate... If we lynch a scum, then great. Everyone celebrates and forgets how bad sheeping is. But it's just not worth it. Part of day one is encouraging a good town atmosphere, and sheeping is never a part of that. If you're going to try to position yourself as a town leader, then this is not the way to do it. I'd go so far as to give you a "light": ##FoS: Shady SandsEncouraging sheeping is very anti-town. From a town perspective, I think it's very plausible you're a little overexcited about your findings on Thrawn, and what you perceive to be a sure scum day one lynch, and that's why I'd call it a "light FoS." Honestly, though, this post was alarming to me, and looks like a great way to herd town behind a scum agenda. Got it. In no way should you interpret my post as telling people to stop thinking for themselves and just follow me. That being said, though, what do you think of the cases on Thrawn and Ochrow?
Before you ask people what they think about your case against me, could say what your response is to my latest post?
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I think that you are either scum, you're not reading my posts, or you're not paying attention to them. I have given my motivation for focusing on Archrun so many times. It's becoming very frustrating to have to requote myself over and over again, but I will do it once again.
On August 16 2012 10:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
I am focusing on Archrun because none of the other scum reads have had very much merit. He is the person who has given the smallest amount of opinion on anything, which means that up until he does it will be impossible to get a scum read on him. I also looked at other people with low post counts, and Archrun was the only one who had not made a claim about anything. This makes him the most suspicious player out of all the lurkers. All I am doing is asking him to post more, and to share his opinions on what has happened so far. Of course I agree that focusing on scum reads is more important than focusing on who has posted the least, but when, as goodkarma said, the conversation is only happening between a handful of people scum reading is difficult.
Once more for clarity's sake, I went after Archrun because
I also looked at other people with low post counts, and Archrun was the only one who had not made a claim about anything.
I have explained my motivation several times, even before you accused me of having scum-motives. Yet you continue to insist that I picked him based off of nothing which is furthering my growing suspicion of you as scum. If you are town please stop ignoring my explanations of my motivations, I really feel like I have provided ample reason for you to know why I focused on Archrun out of all the lurkers.
The whole 3/4 players thing in my last post was a typo.
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EPT
