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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 24 2012 08:54 ghost_403 wrote: It's okay, JingleHell, neither do I. Of couse, I've actually got a good excuse; my refrigerator box doesn't have a TV. WHAT'S YOUR EXCUSE. Permission to modkill JingleHell for failing to watch Mad Men? My excuse is that me and my wife don't spend money on cable because we hate most of the shows? Our only TV is my primary PC display. | ||
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JingleHell
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On July 24 2012 09:10 ghost_403 wrote: And now I feel bad T_T Why? We choose not to spend money on cable so we can spend it on other shit. Personal preference. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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On August 02 2012 07:20 Toadesstern wrote: Worst thing are bitches trolling everyone with charisma things. "What? How in the world is he able to bluff me into thinking we're standing in front of the holy cockroach temple. That makes no sense at all, didn't you give him a hell of mali on that roll? - Sure, he still roled a 67 and made you believe it, so from now on you think this is the holy temple of the cockroaches - How in the world is he able to get a 67 on bluffing?" You can make people do whatever you want them to do with enough charisma as long as you max out bluffing . Actually using skills (spells or fights I guess?) is lame to make people do something :p + Show Spoiler [Mr. Bearington] + ![[image loading]](http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz4dbnN0CF1qcp52wo1_500.jpg) Most underused and overpowered skills in the game. And there's nothing funnier than punishing people for building combat wombats full of cheese. I told them it was an evil campaign, and they'd have the potential to cause paranoia, but nooo, Charisma is a dump stat. As it turns out, they had a hell of a time until the campaign tapered off because they all stopped thinking the setting sounded cool when they realized I had actually meant it. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 02 2012 08:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I am about to send my players into my realm of shadow. They will be doing a shite ton of fighting to get "epic loot" only to get a shift to another plane for their efforts. FEAR THE DM FOR HE IS POWAFUL Also, they have still yet to realize the first bit of magic gear I gave them is cursed, luls ftw It really is more fun if the DM is out to get you. I still remember my Doppelganger druid. Didn't end up working out so well as a bad guy plot, but it was funny as hell when the good guys were suddenly trying to figure out why random bad shit kept happening after we made camp. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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On August 03 2012 10:34 prplhz wrote: And we're off. This is a 23 player game and I will not be able to handle it if there is a 130 page spamfest between a couple of people before night1. Seriously, condense your god damn posting. That said, there's also a couple of new/newer people on the list. You guys remember to post your thoughts and stuff on the game. No one here bites. Do you bite if we ask nicely? Zephirdd, don't you think there's danger of an early bandwagon voting with no cause like that? It's hard to defend yourself against a vote for no reason. FoS Zephirdd | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 03 2012 10:41 Zephirdd wrote: What. If you really think an early bandwagon would come from a vote like that, then you are silly. He doesn't even have to defend himself against non-existant accusations. ##unvote ##vote JingleHell 1: Random vote 2: OMGUS Vote You're off to a great start. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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It seems like this version of a mason really gets exponentially stronger the longer they're active, so I'd probably be against it too. | ||
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JingleHell
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We don't even have much discussion yet, but you still ignored it. Why? | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 03 2012 21:13 Toadesstern wrote: I'm more interested in VE's intentions actually.
I'd rather have an answer quite quick than giving VE some time to write something up. This seemed off because he seemed to have stopped for the night by the time I went to sleep. So, I looked. Sure enough, you start posting a case 7 hours and change after VE's last post, you vote somewhere in the 8ish hour range, and say you want fast answers 9 hours after his last post. Asking for an answer quick is one thing if he's posting, but this seems a bit pushy. Trying to force the issue with someone who hasn't posted in hours and use that to make them look scummy? I can't speak for his motives, because they sure as hell don't make much sense to me yet, but yours just seem scummy. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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On August 04 2012 04:19 Toadesstern wrote: EWBOP Forgot bugs Thing is: Last time I checked my nickname it wasn't foolishness so again, I think someone is playing weird on purpose Not to mention that prplhz+WBG+VE would be OP as fuck. Got it, you sort of suspect everyone, which is convenient if someone flips red. And, of course, even though Zeph hasn't contributed much, I can't help but notice Sloosh targets his list post, but doesn't mind yours. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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That's a whole lot of case to dismiss like that, especially if you turn around and try to aim at someone else, like this... On August 04 2012 08:34 Erandorr wrote: No Zephirdd, thats not what you said. You said that masons should not claim unless their life depended on it. I have it as a quote in my post, buddy. I am going to try this one more time. Slowly. Hang on. ##Vote Erandorr | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 04 2012 13:59 grush57 wrote: HOOK LINE SINKER WBG, MY TOWN META IS STARSENSES Tell me, do you ever not sound like you skipped the paper bag and just ate the model glue instead? | ||
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JingleHell
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That's exactly what Erandorr did with his mason on WBG, and I think it's scummy as shit. | ||
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JingleHell
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He starts with this gem, voting on Bugs for no reason at all. Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm not a fan of votes for literally no reason, as they don't create functional discussion, and could cause trouble, or be used as cover later. Most of page 2 of his filter is nonsensical babble or ad homs. He masons onto WBG after WBG outs VE, as "proof" WBG is outing masons. Or maybe to get himself confirmed as a role in hopes he gets some BOTD. He throws out personal attacks against anyone who disagrees with him repeatedly, an example: On August 03 2012 23:58 Erandorr wrote: Yo you guys. You actually don't use "reason" or "arguments" you just sit there and talk shit. If you disagree with me, point out mistakes you think I made instead of shitting out terrible posts Epic defense against Hier. Continues to press other people to jump on the WBG wagon. On August 04 2012 22:56 Erandorr wrote: So what exactly do you intend to do. Do you agree about WBG? He posts this about WBG: On August 05 2012 06:18 Erandorr wrote: Could you guys also please look at the "fight" where i try really hard to actually do stuff and he insults me about 100 times. Which blithely ignores certain parts of the log, like ME: its about you playing like complete dogshit ME: you are playing like shit ME: your logic is really bad [04.08.12 13:03:32] ME: the one where you got killed [04.08.12 13:03:42] ME: cause you fucked up as scum? [04.08.12 13:03:57] ME: okay sry i just thought that was funny Those are some brilliant examples of attempting productivity, and keeping it calm. There's several people I have trouble seeing the town motive with, but Erandorr tops the chart for me. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 05 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote: Erandorr is not going to happen today. Not that I think it's going to happen tomorrow either but at least for today ignore him and try to pick someone who actually has a chance of being lynched. Unless I misread the hell out of the OP, it's plurality, so keeping my vote on my biggest read shouldn't hurt the consensus. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 05 2012 06:55 slOosh wrote: JingleHell we are trying to consolidate votes right now and because the deadline isn't as friendly to our European neighbors the #1 priority for town is to get this lynch through. We aren't going to lynch Erandorr today. We discuss him more at night but right now our goal is to lynch scum, and that will best happen with prplhz. So please vote him unless you think he is town. This is coming from you? The same person who said this... On August 05 2012 03:37 slOosh wrote: Hey Erandorr could be scum, but WBG's alignment isn't solely tied with Erandorr's alignment. We are not "letting him fly", we are discussing WBG, and he is the lynch candidate to consider. If you think he is town than discuss that. ...just minutes before you pull your vote OFF of WBG based on the chat logs, where WBG even said... [04.08.12 13:29:52] WBG: I can't figure out a good scum in PMs, no one really can Sorry, but I don't like having my vote bullied, and you sound a little funny too with your inconsistency. I see Erandorr as scummier than WBG or prp, who seems to mostly be getting wagoned for semi-lurky behavior and a vote people don't like (issued the same way as Erandorr's vote I didn't like) when there are other people lurking harder. Vote where you want, but don't tell me where to vote, it's not like I'm going to accidentally force a no-lynch here. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 05 2012 07:12 slOosh wrote: OK: Dear all the townies who think they are being cool with voting who they want: This plays into mafia agenda. This game is plurality lynch. Our concern is never the no lynch. Our concern is not consolidating, allowing mafia votes to have more power (since are on the same page and can pool votes more effectively). I'm not bullying you - I'm asking you to be realistic. Right now WBG is the frontrunner. He will get lynched unless people unvote him, or people vote someone else more than him. You have the power to do that latter. However, sticking your vote on someone who has no votes is essentially throwing away your vote. Unless you think WBG is scum and prplhz isn't there should be any reason not to vote prplhz. Please realize that independence weakens town's ability to lynch correctly. I honestly don't see how you can make a case against prplhz for his vote on Glasse, without looking at Erandorr just as badly for WBG. You can't make a case against prplhz for volume of posts, when we've got worse lurkers who are pretending to be active. You can't make a case against prplhz for content of posts without at least considering content of people like Erandorr. I can't get a good read on WBG either way, but neither of them seems like a better case than Erandorr. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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You say you know your alignment like that should be solid proof for anyone, and you were talking a LOT of shit in page 2 of your filter, not just that random quote. The majority of page 2, in fact, was shit talking or contentless fluff. Hier's case may not be some perfect thing, but just calling it a troll when it was at least no worse than your case against WBG, which you seemed to expect to be taken seriously, yeah, I think that's off. And you were talking huge shit right at the start of the log. Not just him. You were both at fault for the arguments, so trying to act like you were trying desperately to get along, and that meany poopoo head just kept calling you names and stealing your dolly... yeah, it won't fly with me. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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"Confirming" the outing of VE, on the other hand, has no benefit whatsoever for town, since if you're considering some strange scenario where WBG and VE fake that claim to try and get town credit, it wouldn't be hard to follow that up by telling the truth about getting masoned... | ||
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JingleHell
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And break his streak? | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 06 2012 05:12 Hier wrote: My reason for not voting for prplhz was that there was little to no case against him. Far from terrible. But hey, somehow it turns into a scumread on anyone who was on Erandorr. Even me, when I was interested in him at the beginning of D1. I guess I've got an awesome crystal ball, right? | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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On August 07 2012 02:38 talismania wrote: Pretty please can you get out of the erandorr tunnel for just a little bit! You talk about no one else and it's starting to concern me. It sounds here like you're setting yourself up for a vote on me later... so what's your take on me? What about toad, who also thinks erandorr is town and actually led the mislynch? Why aren't you mentioning him? You were the one under discussion at the time. Frankly, this is starting to need some tinfoil headgear, what you're suggesting. Bear in mind, I've been interested in Erandorr since the beginning. I've said my fill about the people who were trying to bully me into voting for someone lower on my scumread totem pole, I just added that so it didn't get forgotten when it was brought up. But right now, you're turning anyone who thinks you're suspicious into some giant grand conspiracy of scum, out to get you personally, come hell or high water. If we were scum, putting all our eggs in one basket that way this early would be about as stupid as it gets. Anyways, you're the one who's wanted me to drop Erandorr so many times. So what, exactly, is wrong with mentioning something to do with you? Also, I'm still not convinced Eran isn't scum, seeing as the primary defense anyone offered was "Vote for someone you think is less scummy", and that guy turned out to be town. That being the case, the only way I'd be setting you up for a vote later (assuming I got my way) would be if Erandorr flipped red. Otherwise, that potential association would go away. And, again, people flipped apeshit any time I tried to say anything about the mighty leaders of the prp lynch, so if I bring them all up at once, I'm just going to sound like you, with some inane conspiracy theory. | ||
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JingleHell
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I've seen a few things that make me question his motive for individual statements (don't remember off the top of my head) but overall his play has seemed consistent without being calculated. A lot of it seems to be semantics rather than motivation, and (given some mistakes I've made reading people that way before) I'd prefer to avoid making it all about that. Overall, I really prefer the stuff that started crawling around under the rock I already looked under. Since we don't have any living confirmed townies, I'd prefer to avoid trying to prove innocence, and instead try to prove guilt. Establishing innocence is difficult at best, and an easy way to distract the town, so I'd rather keep an eye out for people making statements that require foreknowledge or have no town motive. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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It doesn't compute. Going back through context, I was planning to try and give you some BOTD, but this kind of bears some explanation. | ||
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JingleHell
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Right now, I'd probably be willing to get behind lynches on either VE, Dropula, or (if he doesn't explain his somewhat insane last post in the thread) Eran. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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Most damning of all, the whole rolefishing thing on Talis. It was really bizarre timing to ask, but if the host actually made roles and names line up (which doesn't seem to be the case), that would just be kind of dumb, making it the core of a case doesn't fly. And then certain things don't line up. On August 06 2012 03:16 VisceraEyes wrote: No, my reasoning was to establish my innocence with Bugs FIRST, before anyone else. Not so he could defend me, but so he wouldn't suspect me. Townies don't need to "establish" their innocence, that just happens through proper behavior. Along with everything else, you've pretty much topped my reads for the day. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 08 2012 02:17 BroodKingEXE wrote: You'e never played a game with VE have you. Establishing his innocence is something he mentions every game. I dont think anyone agrees that Talis' rolefishing had any place in this town, so why not call it out? This reasoning is too shabby for you to be making votes. You know what? I'm about fucking sick of this stupid shit. If I had the gall to mention in the thread that I've just finished my newbie games, I bet you people would rip me to shreds over trying to use it as a crutch, but any time someone doesn't like something I say or do, they bring it up. Fuck off. If you want to defend the guy who's been kinda crazy for a while now, that's your call, but don't tell me where to vote. If someone claims scum every single game, even when they're not, does that mean they're never scum? No. It just means they have useful meta for when they play as scum. Anyways, I have my reasons for my vote. I could reiterate what a dozen other people have said, or I could just reference some of the bigger stuff. Seems easier. | ||
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JingleHell
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Ignoring that, you're talking about lynching someone just to see how they flip to try and establish a correlation that only has meaning under intense WIFOM. | ||
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JingleHell
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Read half a page and figure it out, "bro". Don't go trying to start shit with me because you're still pissed you couldn't get me modkilled for lynching scum when you wanted to ignore the confirmed DT's investigation as townie. | ||
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JingleHell
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I think I've demonstrated quite effectively that I'm only like "this" when people are being stupid. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=51#1005 There's you asking for me to be modkilled when I wouldn't change my vote off the guy the confirmed DT had as red. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=54#1062 There's him flipping. So, who's unreasonable? You're just trying to start shit for no good reason. | ||
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JingleHell
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D1, BioSC, who graciously, and for whatever reason, didn't reveal me at any point. + Show Spoiler + Original Message From BioSC: WBG I don't want lynched today. His handling of the mason thing was sketchy, but I really think there are better targets. If he IS scum, this wagon reminds me of Vivax's case on you in newbie 18. Right for the wrong reasons. However, I don't think he's the scummiest. I'm looking at Talis right now. Something about his filter seems off to me... Thinking about taking an hour break to go to the gym to clear my head xD D2 Talis + Show Spoiler + [8/6/2012 4:49:57 PM] Jingle: hey howsit. [8/6/2012 4:50:01 PM] talismania: hihi [8/6/2012 4:50:07 PM] talismania: hawaii? [8/6/2012 4:50:14 PM] Jingle: huh? [8/6/2012 4:50:20 PM] talismania: oh nm they say howzit there [8/6/2012 4:50:54 PM] Jingle: nah, I'm in Texas. [8/6/2012 4:51:27 PM] Jingle: Yeah, I wasn't even expecting to make it this far without getting outed in the current climate, so if you feel the need, I'll understand. [8/6/2012 4:52:47 PM] talismania: indeed I don't see what difference it will make [8/6/2012 4:52:54 PM] talismania: as far as NKs go you should be lower priority than toad, for instance [8/6/2012 4:53:12 PM] talismania: you said you thought it was weird that biosc didn't out you? [8/6/2012 4:53:22 PM] Jingle: Yeah, given how things went yesterday overall [8/6/2012 4:53:36 PM] Jingle: I asked him not to, but with the way the day went... [8/6/2012 4:53:54 PM] Jingle: not outing me ends up looking bad for me [8/6/2012 4:54:08 PM] talismania: I dunno about that [8/6/2012 4:54:12 PM] talismania: how do you figure? [8/6/2012 4:54:44 PM] Jingle: well, all the discussion about "scum won't use their masons if they haven't yet" [8/6/2012 4:54:54 PM] Jingle: people are already trying to WIFOM masons hard [8/6/2012 4:55:16 PM] Jingle: and somehow I'm the stealth mason after all the discussion on the subject yesterday [8/6/2012 4:55:32 PM] talismania: meh I don't think it makes you look bad [8/6/2012 4:55:48 PM] Jingle: But then, I'm not overly concerned about town scrutiny, since I tend to be able to explain my thought process. [8/6/2012 4:56:38 PM] Jingle: that's why I decided to mason you. You don't just insta-drop reads at first pressure, but you look at more than one option [8/6/2012 4:56:47 PM] Jingle: I've got a town read on you right now. [8/6/2012 4:57:02 PM] talismania: likewise [8/6/2012 4:57:08 PM] talismania: I'm like 70% town on you [8/6/2012 4:57:08 PM] Jingle: and wanted to see how you feel about stuff without giant crosstalk and interference [8/6/2012 4:57:34 PM] talismania: ok well shoot away [8/6/2012 4:58:07 PM] Jingle: well first, do you actually think I'm crazy on Eran, or do you just think there's bigger fish to fry? [8/6/2012 4:58:32 PM] Jingle: I really don't like what I'd already seen, but he's starting to drop off the map since the lynch [8/6/2012 4:58:49 PM] talismania: well to be perfectly honest I wrote him off as town fairly early and haven't really seriously revisited it [8/6/2012 4:58:59 PM] talismania: however now might be a good time to do so [8/6/2012 4:59:13 PM] talismania: the reason I thought he was town was that he masoned bugs I think for the reason he said [8/6/2012 4:59:27 PM] talismania: like, him masoning bugs in that spot, as most people pointed out isn't a great play for scum or town really [8/6/2012 5:01:00 PM] Jingle: yeah. idk. it seemed strange to me. I've been trying to avoid it coming up in thread, because it sounds like a copout, and don't want to use it as an excuse, but it's hard to catch a handle on some of the players. Posts in the newbie games were usually more comprehensive, with less familiarity between people, so some things that seem scummy to me might just be damn innocent. [8/6/2012 5:01:39 PM] Jingle: I masoned Bio yesterday because we'd already played once together, so it seemed like a good place to start. [8/6/2012 5:02:05 PM] talismania: ah gotcha [8/6/2012 5:02:20 PM] talismania: ok so the other thing that made me think eran was town was his eagerness to skype with bugs [8/6/2012 5:02:26 PM] talismania: that bugs mentioned a few times [8/6/2012 5:02:40 PM] Jingle: skype is a townie type thing? [8/6/2012 5:02:41 PM] talismania: I don't understand that as scum [8/6/2012 5:02:47 PM] talismania: well not necessarily I suppose [8/6/2012 5:02:48 PM] Jingle: why, because it's faster paced? [8/6/2012 5:02:52 PM] Jingle: harder to fake? [8/6/2012 5:02:58 PM] talismania: it's faster paced, you don't have as much time to think on your feet if you're scum etc [8/6/2012 5:03:17 PM] talismania: but he seemed genuinely eager to press wbg [8/6/2012 5:03:28 PM] talismania: was he just doing that because he knew he could rile him up? [8/6/2012 5:03:31 PM] Jingle: idk, the log seemed pretty shitty on both parts to me. [8/6/2012 5:03:40 PM] Jingle: like, the very start of the log, he was opening with hostility [8/6/2012 5:03:42 PM] talismania: I can't say for sure because wbg came into that chat so pissed in the beginning [8/6/2012 5:03:50 PM] Jingle: they both did though [8/6/2012 5:03:51 PM] talismania: ok let me open that log [8/6/2012 5:04:11 PM] Jingle: like, right from the start, eran was talking shit about wbg's play being terrible [8/6/2012 5:04:28 PM] Jingle: that was one of the things I went after him on, that nobody seemed to think was worth looking at [8/6/2012 5:04:44 PM] Jingle: and, of course, I wasnt posting big rainbow colored reminders to vote for him [8/6/2012 5:04:49 PM] talismania: heh [8/6/2012 5:04:53 PM] Jingle: that said, Hier made me nervous. [8/6/2012 5:05:11 PM] Jingle: even if I have a good case on someone, I don't like to see a ninja vote on them with nothing in the thread [8/6/2012 5:05:26 PM] talismania: I thoguht hier made a case on erandorr [8/6/2012 5:05:38 PM] Jingle: go look in the thread at the time he voted [8/6/2012 5:05:39 PM] talismania: it was really sarcastic and I thoguht he was breadcrumbing his character because of that [8/6/2012 5:05:42 PM] Jingle: his vote was out of nowhere. [8/6/2012 5:05:55 PM] Jingle: timing wise [8/6/2012 5:06:16 PM] Jingle: like, i'd expect at least a "oh yeah since I forgot earlier" post or something [8/6/2012 5:06:22 PM] Jingle: brb smoke [8/6/2012 5:10:17 PM] Jingle: back [8/6/2012 5:10:26 PM] talismania: cool I'm reading through eran's filter [8/6/2012 5:11:36 PM] Jingle: but yeah, it's been tricky for me over the weekend and today, since i've been busy. my usual style is to aggressively bulldog on people, and watch the ensuing discussion for people to say things that don't seem to have a townie motive [8/6/2012 5:12:23 PM] Jingle: usually goes decent for me, but between people just wanting to ignore my cases, and doing other stuff, it hasn't worked so hot. hopefully it will pick up [8/6/2012 5:14:22 PM] Jingle: but yeah, the logs from eran/wbg seem less conclusive to me, because when wbg popped in talking down to eran, he didn't even try to get things on track, he just swung back. [8/6/2012 5:14:55 PM] talismania: ok so erandorr masons wbg sometime after this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=15#285 [8/6/2012 5:15:57 PM] talismania: and then later after wbg outs him he makes this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=16#314 [8/6/2012 5:16:17 PM] talismania: which only focuses on wbg outing ve and not himself which is kind of funny [8/6/2012 5:17:20 PM] Jingle: yeah that does seem weird. although, to try and be objective, if he expected to be outed, focusing on it happening to him would be strange. [8/6/2012 5:17:43 PM] talismania: objectively he should have mentioned it as either alignment IMO [8/6/2012 5:17:47 PM] Jingle: but then, that flies against the claimed motive of "confirming" that VE masoned wbg, which is WIFOM without a log anyway [8/6/2012 5:18:00 PM] talismania: if it was his scum plan to get wbg lynched, and he knew wbg would out him then he should hav eused it [8/6/2012 5:18:04 PM] Jingle: which there were no logs from anyone at that point [8/6/2012 5:18:17 PM] talismania: if it was his town plan to see if wbg outed him too he should have mentioned it too [8/6/2012 5:18:23 PM] talismania: sot hat's a wash [8/6/2012 5:18:53 PM] Jingle: he really just doesn't make any sense to me. [8/6/2012 5:19:09 PM] Jingle: And where I can't find townie motive, and can see possible scum motive, I tend to think scum [8/6/2012 5:19:37 PM] Jingle: obviously, strange play is always possible too, but it just doesn't make sense. [8/6/2012 5:20:22 PM] Jingle: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15727835 [8/6/2012 5:20:32 PM] Jingle: he was definitely trying to push votes towards wbg at one point [8/6/2012 5:20:46 PM] talismania: at one point? I recall him doing it at every point [8/6/2012 5:20:53 PM] Jingle: yeah, I know [8/6/2012 5:21:02 PM] Jingle: until prp came up [8/6/2012 5:21:04 PM] Jingle: the side wagon [8/6/2012 5:21:19 PM] Jingle: that took on a life of it's own and turned into the lynch instead [8/6/2012 5:21:34 PM] Jingle: shortly after the lynch, he drops off the face of the planet for all intents and purposes [8/6/2012 5:22:05 PM] talismania: yes he has been inactive or at least I can't remember what he's done for a while [8/6/2012 5:22:08 PM] Jingle: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15733650 [8/6/2012 5:22:16 PM] talismania: oh I think he perked up when bugs came back [8/6/2012 5:22:16 PM] Jingle: there's his "defense" against my case [8/6/2012 5:22:45 PM] Jingle: which is basically a train wreck of "these aren't the droids you're looking for" and blatant misrepresentation. [8/6/2012 5:23:05 PM] Jingle: like his response to me pointing out that he was talking shit back to wbg in the logs right at the start [8/6/2012 5:23:15 PM] Jingle: "Did you notice that he insulted me about 100 times before that? And the one time I get so upset as to say what I do in the quote I INSTANTLY APOLOGIZE?" [8/6/2012 5:24:09 PM] Jingle: and after ignoring or lying as a response to my case, he calls it a malicious case, and then tells me to look at other people. [8/6/2012 5:24:34 PM] Jingle: if he actually thought it was malicious, there should be a case, not just a continued tunnel on wbg and prp [8/6/2012 5:24:44 PM] Jingle: but he accuses me of a malicious case and vanishes [8/6/2012 5:25:07 PM] talismania: hmm [8/6/2012 5:25:07 PM] Jingle: the shitty part is so many people think i just have a hardon for him that it probably wouldn't work to just point this out in the thread either [8/6/2012 5:25:21 PM] talismania: well you're tunneled on him and he was tunneled on wbg at that point [8/6/2012 5:25:35 PM] talismania: I'm not surprised he didn't turn around and make a case on you [8/6/2012 5:25:52 PM] talismania: ok I'm gonna go through his response [8/6/2012 5:26:03 PM] talismania: first thing I agree with him on - it was a joke [8/6/2012 5:26:21 PM] talismania: second thing let's see [8/6/2012 5:26:34 PM] Jingle: i didn't know it was a joke. goes back to that familiarity thing [8/6/2012 5:26:53 PM] talismania: yeah a couple of people have made mistakes like that this game [8/6/2012 5:27:18 PM] Jingle: i did actually apologize and drop that particular facet on the record, iirc [8/6/2012 5:27:36 PM] talismania: uh ok so second point is that he's prickly about his opinions essentially [8/6/2012 5:28:03 PM] Jingle: ok maybe i didn't. not sure. [8/6/2012 5:28:09 PM] talismania: hmm yeah the problem is his personality [8/6/2012 5:28:12 PM] Jingle: damn its bad when i have to check my own filter [8/6/2012 5:28:31 PM] talismania: I ge tthe sense that he is infact rather agressive and whatnot [8/6/2012 5:28:41 PM] talismania: he went after me pretty agressively early on for instance [8/6/2012 5:29:34 PM] Jingle: yeah i didn't officially drop that in the thread. but i didn't follow up on it either. hard to know what's an inside joke and what's not [8/6/2012 5:30:03 PM] Jingle: but yeah, aggressive play is good and all, I'm all for it, but he really didn't address the bigger points [8/6/2012 5:30:38 PM] Jingle: although, as you said, one of them doesn't make sense from any perspective, and the other is kind of down to personality [8/6/2012 5:30:56 PM] Jingle: idk, maybe he's not scum, but i don't have a better target right now [8/6/2012 5:31:01 PM] talismania: yeah so point two is essentially that he attacks people who disagree with him [8/6/2012 5:31:09 PM] talismania: which is what I mean by he's agresssive [8/6/2012 5:31:28 PM] talismania: and then the problem is to decide if he's hamming it up on purpose to drive a mislynch [8/6/2012 5:31:30 PM] talismania: or if that's just how he is [8/6/2012 5:31:45 PM] talismania: and it's not really that alignment-indicative [8/6/2012 5:32:44 PM] Jingle: there's so much gray area in this game, that short posts, and dismissive posts can be kind of difficult to deal with [8/6/2012 5:33:18 PM] talismania: I like erandorr's shorter posts in his filter for the most part [8/6/2012 5:33:19 PM] Jingle: i mean, i've done it too, where something seems absurd and i ignored it, but if there's several people all saying it, continuing to ignore it doesn't seem pro-town anymore [8/6/2012 5:33:26 PM] talismania: he asks questions, and then more importantly follows up on them [8/6/2012 5:33:46 PM] talismania: scum do the first easily but are often too lazy to do the second, because they don't really care about the answer [8/6/2012 5:33:54 PM] talismania: of course good scum do both [8/6/2012 5:34:10 PM] talismania: ok so point three in your case is about hier and erandorr's respoens to that [8/6/2012 5:34:33 PM] talismania: my gut reaction to that is that eran's response was townie but I guess in sum it's just null [8/6/2012 5:34:57 PM] talismania: like if I'm scum I don't blow off a case, no matter how ridiculous it sounds with a one-liner [8/6/2012 5:35:08 PM] talismania: but I'm also not that agressive [8/6/2012 5:36:24 PM] Jingle: i actually had a coach, back in one of my newbie games, tell me to blow off weak cases more often. apparently they thought it was a scumslip to over-defend [8/6/2012 5:36:38 PM] Jingle: which makes sense, but then you're diving into wifom [8/6/2012 5:36:45 PM] Jingle: and i hate wifom when i can look for motives [8/6/2012 5:36:47 PM] talismania: no I agree [8/6/2012 5:36:59 PM] talismania: I mean I think zephirdd made a case on me this game that I prettuy much just ignored [8/6/2012 5:37:13 PM] talismania: it's just the use of the one-liner that seems genuine [8/6/2012 5:37:30 PM] talismania: like I honestly think erandorr read hier's thing and went "wtf" [8/6/2012 5:37:47 PM] Jingle: well, i guess i can at least shift him to null read and just keep an eye on him for now [8/6/2012 5:38:03 PM] Jingle: since that all makes some sort of sense, with context [8/6/2012 5:38:18 PM] talismania: now for sure you're right that he doesn't make a much of an attempt to calm wbg down [8/6/2012 5:38:29 PM] Jingle: that on its own i can't call scummy [8/6/2012 5:38:35 PM] talismania: they're pretty much both just salpping each other with fish that whole time [8/6/2012 5:38:45 PM] Jingle: just useless [8/6/2012 5:38:53 PM] Jingle: but at least we werent subjected to it in thread [8/6/2012 5:39:09 PM] talismania: if we were I'd say they might have both been scum [8/6/2012 5:39:48 PM] Jingle: i can still sort of see a potential case on wbg out of that mess, but it's hard to say. frankly, i think he's been overtunneled [8/6/2012 5:40:13 PM] talismania: wbg makes me nervous [8/6/2012 5:40:20 PM] talismania: I've been more or less thinking he's town [8/6/2012 5:40:35 PM] talismania: but his play since coming back from rage mountain has been subpar [8/6/2012 5:40:36 PM] Jingle: the main thing with outing that i don't like is that it's too obvious of a defense [8/6/2012 5:40:56 PM] Jingle: "but why would I out them in the thread if i could have done it in the QT if I was scum" [8/6/2012 5:41:02 PM] Jingle: that scares the hell out of me [8/6/2012 5:41:19 PM] Jingle: out of the whole thing, that was the only thing to me that made me think it might be worth a case [8/6/2012 5:41:40 PM] talismania: yeah on balance the speed with which wbg outed them tells me he wasn't planning much devious with it [8/6/2012 5:41:59 PM] talismania: he genuinely believes that masons aren't that much more valuable in secret, which I agree with [8/6/2012 5:42:09 PM] Jingle: would he have been an obvious mason target? [8/6/2012 5:42:12 PM] talismania: wbg? [8/6/2012 5:42:14 PM] talismania: yues [8/6/2012 5:42:18 PM] Jingle: it could have been something he planned to do early then [8/6/2012 5:42:23 PM] Jingle: making the speed work [8/6/2012 5:42:45 PM] talismania: well the reason I think for outing masons in the thread as scum [8/6/2012 5:42:49 PM] talismania: instaed of just in the qt [8/6/2012 5:43:07 PM] talismania: is to avoid risking looking bad if scum wants to nk the masons [8/6/2012 5:43:29 PM] talismania: like if VE claimed mason like toad did, for instance, and then got killed [8/6/2012 5:43:38 PM] Jingle: yeah but they can't nk masons now [8/6/2012 5:43:51 PM] Jingle: unless we have an insane number of masons total [8/6/2012 5:44:07 PM] talismania: I really hope there isn't another hidden one [8/6/2012 5:44:08 PM] Jingle: then scum have masons outed too now [8/6/2012 5:44:20 PM] Jingle: so every dead mason narrows down some scum [8/6/2012 5:44:42 PM] talismania: well I think if I were balancing the game I would have the same ratio of masons as there are players [8/6/2012 5:44:51 PM] talismania: but I don't know if bc did that [8/6/2012 5:44:56 PM] talismania: right now it's 6 total known [8/6/2012 5:45:06 PM] talismania: so 4-2? 5-1? [8/6/2012 5:45:23 PM] Jingle: yeah idk [8/6/2012 5:45:37 PM] Jingle: but theres enough out that i expect the scum have masons visible [8/6/2012 5:45:46 PM] Jingle: so they cant nk into masons safely [8/6/2012 5:45:58 PM] talismania: I mean I'm still fairly sure about VE [8/6/2012 5:45:58 PM] Jingle: after the first couple got outed, the rest getting outed was VERY pro-town [8/6/2012 5:46:04 PM] talismania: and I have a strong feeling hassbaby is scum too [8/6/2012 5:46:08 PM] Jingle: who was it who dropped names after wbg? i forget [8/6/2012 5:46:12 PM] talismania: toad [8/6/2012 5:46:35 PM] Jingle: well, out of the two who outed, one of them is probably scum [8/6/2012 5:47:14 PM] talismania: hmm just thoguht of something [8/6/2012 5:47:14 PM] Jingle: either to protect attempts to nk into masons, or to protect scum masons so they could keep using it [8/6/2012 5:47:21 PM] talismania: I suppose it could be dangerous to out too many masons if there's lots [8/6/2012 5:47:26 PM] talismania: since it helps scum bluesnipe [8/6/2012 5:47:53 PM] talismania: well [8/6/2012 5:47:57 PM] talismania: actually I doubt that's an issue [8/6/2012 5:48:08 PM] talismania: there'd have to be like four more out there before that was troublesome [8/6/2012 5:48:31 PM] Jingle: well that'd make an entertaining game, if there were that many masons [8/6/2012 5:48:45 PM] Jingle: for some value of "entertaining" [8/6/2012 5:48:50 PM] talismania: yeah I was thinking of a setup earlier today [8/6/2012 5:49:02 PM] talismania: everyone is mason and gets to pick one person they can chat to per cycle [8/6/2012 5:49:15 PM] talismania: catch is that you are required to post your logs at the end of the cycle [8/6/2012 5:49:28 PM] Jingle: ow [8/6/2012 5:49:34 PM] Jingle: that sounds painfully difficult [8/6/2012 5:49:40 PM] Jingle: inane volume of information [8/6/2012 5:49:46 PM] Jingle: don't think most people would have the patience [8/6/2012 5:50:44 PM] talismania: lol hier made a diagram [8/6/2012 5:50:50 PM] Jingle: yeah just saw that [8/6/2012 5:50:53 PM] talismania: hahahaha [8/6/2012 5:51:08 PM] talismania: sorry I think it's funny he couldn't keep track of things [8/6/2012 5:51:19 PM] talismania: it ain't that complicated [8/6/2012 5:51:41 PM] Jingle: i can't completely either [8/6/2012 5:51:47 PM] Jingle: but i'm not drawing a flowchart [8/6/2012 5:52:30 PM] talismania: ok but back on the subject of which mason is scum [8/6/2012 5:52:32 PM] talismania: VE [8/6/2012 5:52:42 PM] talismania: what do you make of the meat of my case against him [8/6/2012 5:52:56 PM] Jingle: sum it up, or give me a sec to re-read [8/6/2012 5:53:11 PM] talismania: he doesn't read my filter like a townie should before making a case [8/6/2012 5:53:29 PM] talismania: he ends up making accusations that aren't actually true by mistakenly paraphrasing other players [8/6/2012 5:53:53 PM] talismania: yet at the same time he shows he's paying enough attention to the game to remember even the most ohbscure posts I made early on [8/6/2012 5:54:15 PM] talismania: his reaction to my case is interesting too [8/6/2012 5:54:30 PM] talismania: he's essentially had to back down completely and admit I was right [8/6/2012 5:54:44 PM] talismania: without admitting that he's scum of course [8/6/2012 5:56:05 PM] Jingle: well, I can't comment on all of it, but I got to admit, it's pretty damning. I especially agree about the shadiness of wanting to establish innocence. I'm generally of the opinion that it establishes itself unless you're playing clumsily [8/6/2012 5:56:12 PM] Jingle: of course, i don't know what kind of player he is [8/6/2012 5:57:03 PM] Jingle: looking up his response right now [8/6/2012 5:57:06 PM] talismania: search bureaucracy mafia (still on front page I think) and have a skim through his filter [8/6/2012 5:57:07 PM] Jingle: trying to keep context [8/6/2012 5:57:15 PM] talismania: if you want to see his normal town meta [8/6/2012 5:57:24 PM] talismania: he's normally a lot more spammy [8/6/2012 5:59:21 PM] Jingle: i do think the rolefishing accusation... well, it kind of makes sense, but we can only hope bc is smart enough to have randomized roles to names, not just inverted or something. [8/6/2012 5:59:33 PM] Jingle: at the least, you should have saved that for later [8/6/2012 5:59:41 PM] Jingle: but i don't think it makes a solid core of a case [8/6/2012 5:59:41 PM] talismania: heh yeah couldn't help myself [8/6/2012 5:59:52 PM] talismania: since don draper was vt [8/6/2012 6:00:06 PM] talismania: I think it's safe to say char names truely don't mean anything [8/6/2012 6:00:50 PM] Jingle: yeah ive watched a few episodes on netflix but got sidetracked by season 3 of warehouse 13 [8/6/2012 6:01:58 PM] Jingle: and yeah, his final response to your case is... strange. [8/6/2012 6:02:07 PM] Jingle: i could see a VE lynch maybe. [8/6/2012 6:02:23 PM] talismania: I'll see what I can get out of him in pms and chat [8/6/2012 6:02:27 PM] Jingle: or we could see if we can kill grush again. [8/6/2012 6:02:37 PM] talismania: oh grush [8/6/2012 6:02:40 PM] Jingle: scum/vigi got to, why can't the rest of us? [8/6/2012 6:02:45 PM] Jingle: its not fair [8/6/2012 6:03:07 PM] talismania: I bet his plan was something silly too like not masoning d1 and then masoning d2 and seeing what happens [8/6/2012 6:04:21 PM] Jingle: either that or his starsenses got jammed [8/6/2012 6:05:03 PM] Jingle: I was just having a look over Bio's filter again [8/6/2012 6:05:07 PM] Jingle: idk what's up with him [8/6/2012 6:05:45 PM] talismania: he comes on and off my radar [8/6/2012 6:05:51 PM] talismania: you palyed with him before you said [8/6/2012 6:05:53 PM] Jingle: yeah [8/6/2012 6:05:54 PM] talismania: I think I played with him once too [8/6/2012 6:05:57 PM] Jingle: hes not spammy [8/6/2012 6:06:01 PM] talismania: no he's not [8/6/2012 6:06:11 PM] Jingle: but he's under a page of filter [8/6/2012 6:06:16 PM] Jingle: with a fair amount as pre-game spam [8/6/2012 6:06:58 PM] Jingle: last thing he said was to call grush scum for being grush, and then dismiss a case against him [8/6/2012 6:07:21 PM] talismania: ok opened his filter [8/6/2012 6:07:48 PM] talismania: this sounds dumb and I really shouldn't rely on it but I thoguht he was town when he asked the host for a filter list in the op [8/6/2012 6:08:06 PM] Jingle: lol why? when he's scum he's pretty cautious [8/6/2012 6:08:34 PM] Jingle: end of newbie XVIII he was well off radar. he makes careful scum cases. [8/6/2012 6:09:01 PM] Jingle: granted, i was scum too that game, but yeah, i watched him play scum, and he's careful and quiet [8/6/2012 6:09:12 PM] Jingle: but then, haven't seen him as confirmed town, so not sure on that [8/6/2012 6:09:25 PM] Jingle: although I do have to wonder... [8/6/2012 6:09:57 PM] Jingle: somewhere in his filter... [8/6/2012 6:10:00 PM] Jingle: dammit can't find it [8/6/2012 6:10:00 PM] talismania: scummiest part of his filter is his switch to prp [8/6/2012 6:10:14 PM] Jingle: that's because it's his single long, thought out post. [8/6/2012 6:10:24 PM] talismania: ewll he has some others of comparable length [8/6/2012 6:10:38 PM] Jingle: but they're fluff longer posts [8/6/2012 6:10:38 PM] talismania: I mean I think he was just going along with the twagon [8/6/2012 6:10:46 PM] talismania: but he sort of overjustified that [8/6/2012 6:11:14 PM] talismania: it would have made more sense for him to say "I don't wbg lynched, I'm voting prp" given his history [8/6/2012 6:11:26 PM] Jingle: here we go. [8/6/2012 6:11:34 PM] Jingle: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15730145 [8/6/2012 6:11:42 PM] Jingle: "My stance on him is about him being less scummy than Grush. I don't really care about meta, never have, probably never will. What I care about is THIS game. " [8/6/2012 6:12:01 PM] Jingle: i'm all for voting for your stronger scumread [8/6/2012 6:12:17 PM] Jingle: but having a strong scumread on a troll for trolling sounds ludicrous [8/6/2012 6:12:53 PM] Jingle: even me, not considering prp a top lynch priority, i would have taken prp over grush as a lynch based on available info at the time [8/6/2012 6:13:26 PM] talismania: well you have a point there [8/6/2012 6:13:34 PM] talismania: it's hard to really ever call grush scum [8/6/2012 6:13:42 PM] talismania: it's easy to call him bad [8/6/2012 6:13:50 PM] Jingle: i knew him by reputation before i ever saw him in a game [8/6/2012 6:13:59 PM] Jingle: i knew what to expect before it started [8/6/2012 6:14:07 PM] talismania: so would you say that this is matching biosc's careful cases as scum? [8/6/2012 6:14:21 PM] talismania: they dont seem that careful to me [8/6/2012 6:14:28 PM] Jingle: not really, but i'd say that he's at least not going to miss your filter [8/6/2012 6:14:54 PM] Jingle: actually, if anything, i'd consider him blue over scum [8/6/2012 6:15:00 PM] Jingle: but he could still be scum [8/6/2012 6:15:04 PM] Jingle: i don't know [8/6/2012 6:15:07 PM] Jingle: it's a hard read [8/6/2012 6:15:27 PM] Jingle: bio may have just seemed careful that time because i was controlling the thread at that point [8/6/2012 6:15:31 PM] Jingle: i'm not sure [8/6/2012 6:15:39 PM] talismania: maybe he shot grush [8/6/2012 6:15:43 PM] Jingle: plausible [8/6/2012 6:15:51 PM] talismania: he's my number one vig suspect [8/6/2012 6:16:00 PM] Jingle: and his inactivity would match the lack of a vigi claim on it [8/6/2012 6:16:47 PM] Jingle: what about snb? [8/6/2012 6:17:05 PM] talismania: I think he's town for the most part [8/6/2012 6:17:14 PM] talismania: there was a period of a few hours where I was thinking he might be scum [8/6/2012 6:17:23 PM] talismania: but mainly I think he's town [8/6/2012 6:17:44 PM] talismania: the effort he put in with regards to wbg made me think that [8/6/2012 6:17:55 PM] talismania: like where he was digging up out of game quotes [8/6/2012 6:18:03 PM] talismania: hte fact that he reread the thread [8/6/2012 6:18:24 PM] talismania: he's been generally open-minded too [8/6/2012 6:18:27 PM] talismania: he asks good questions [8/6/2012 6:18:29 PM] talismania: dunno [8/6/2012 6:18:31 PM] Jingle: maybe i just don't like the kill masons idea he posited for some reason [8/6/2012 6:18:57 PM] Jingle: maybe i'm just crazy, but i think that's a good way to potentially sacrifice a lot of town for minimal scum [8/6/2012 6:19:09 PM] talismania: I don't think he's saying anything different other than that we should look into the masons [8/6/2012 6:19:11 PM] Jingle: also, it's a minimal discussion cop-out lynch method [8/6/2012 6:19:22 PM] Jingle: and discussion kills scum [8/6/2012 6:19:30 PM] talismania: I don't think he means to policy lynch all masons [8/6/2012 6:19:35 PM] talismania: that wouldn't work [8/6/2012 6:19:54 PM] talismania: lylo is at day 4 or something at worst [8/6/2012 6:20:00 PM] Jingle: plus, realistically, the more dead scum masons we make, the more reliable our surviving masons are. [8/6/2012 6:20:02 PM] talismania: so not nearly enough time for that radical of a plan [8/6/2012 6:20:16 PM] Jingle: so if we lynch carefully, the better [8/6/2012 6:20:28 PM] Jingle: granted, the masons definitely bear watching [8/6/2012 6:20:35 PM] Jingle: with this many i can't imagine us all being town [8/6/2012 6:20:45 PM] talismania: yep I'm still locking VE and hassy [8/6/2012 6:20:51 PM] Jingle: masons should definitely get extra scrutiny [8/6/2012 6:21:06 PM] Jingle: hassy needs to post more [8/6/2012 6:21:06 PM] talismania: toad I think is town [8/6/2012 6:21:22 PM] talismania: the way toad played his role makes a lotof sense from a town pov [8/6/2012 6:21:35 PM] talismania: he's a clever scum player but that would be really really celver of him to do as scum [8/6/2012 6:22:23 PM] Jingle: certainly if VE gets lynched and flips red, hassy will bear close watching [8/6/2012 6:22:31 PM] Jingle: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15713928 [8/6/2012 6:22:46 PM] Jingle: that's him getting in on the rolefishing attack on you [8/6/2012 6:23:02 PM] talismania: yeah he got baited by that for sure [8/6/2012 6:23:16 PM] Jingle: if i was going to base a case on that, i'd hope someone would mercy kill me for it [8/6/2012 6:23:27 PM] talismania: it must be the kind of thing that's just irresistible in scum qt [8/6/2012 6:23:42 PM] talismania: "holy shit he's literally asking for people's names" etc [8/6/2012 6:23:56 PM] Jingle: he jumped on that and then vanished completely after voting on WBG [8/6/2012 6:24:08 PM] talismania: he's not interested in the game really [8/6/2012 6:24:09 PM] Jingle: i don't like disappearing people who vanish after a wagon much [8/6/2012 6:24:21 PM] talismania: that's the biggest scumtell [8/6/2012 6:24:38 PM] talismania: like if you ever want to know if I'm scum, ask if I'm interested or not in the game [8/6/2012 6:24:54 PM] talismania: I hate playing scum so I tend to be passive and not post as much [8/6/2012 6:24:59 PM] talismania: hassy may have the same problem [8/6/2012 6:25:13 PM] talismania: also he has set himself a little trap [8/6/2012 6:25:22 PM] talismania: he mentions in his logs with toad that he is keeping game notes [8/6/2012 6:25:47 PM] talismania: so it will be interesting to see if he can actually produce those [8/6/2012 6:26:02 PM] talismania: as doing that as scum gets tiresome [8/6/2012 6:27:23 PM] Jingle: i don't keep notes as either alignment. when i played scum in newbie XVIII i avoided notes to force myself to stay contextual, and i do the same as a townie. making myself re-read filters is much better for avoiding stupid miscalculations that lead to mislynches [8/6/2012 6:27:39 PM] Jingle: at least for me [8/6/2012 6:27:56 PM] Jingle: notes would make me lazy, and i don't want to form a bad case and turn it into a mislynch because i get lazy [8/6/2012 6:27:59 PM] talismania: I tried notes twice but I always gave up after D1 [8/6/2012 6:28:54 PM] Jingle: oh shit, i gtg. need to grab a shower before i head out to wife's birthday dinner [8/6/2012 6:29:00 PM] talismania: have fun! [8/6/2012 6:29:01 PM] Jingle: i'll catch you later [8/6/2012 9:22:41 PM] Jingle: i do not understand erand. [8/6/2012 9:24:13 PM] Jingle: he sits there making all these points about VE, then votes WBG... [8/6/2012 9:25:04 PM] Jingle: then he throws an OMGUS on me, unless there's an actual case somewhere in the thread (oh right, I'm scummy because I didn't jump on the prp wagon when ordered) [8/6/2012 9:57:08 PM] talismania: don't understand why he's quitting the game too or if he actually is [8/6/2012 9:57:16 PM] talismania: drama queen city this game [8/6/2012 9:57:24 PM] Jingle: yeah no joke [8/6/2012 9:59:15 PM] Jingle: god people are failing quote tags [8/6/2012 9:59:17 PM] Jingle: drives me insane [8/6/2012 10:00:20 PM] talismania: lol love this countdropula [8/6/2012 10:00:57 PM] Jingle: he's got class. I just wish there were good cases in the thread. [8/6/2012 10:01:15 PM] Jingle: This game is going strange though. [8/6/2012 10:01:38 PM] talismania: it's playing like there's 12 people in it [8/6/2012 10:02:14 PM] Jingle: yeah. I could try to build cases, but ideally, we'd get lurkers into existence first. [8/6/2012 10:02:39 PM] talismania: it's just about consolidation time [8/6/2012 10:02:52 PM] Jingle: consolidate what? cases? [8/6/2012 10:02:56 PM] talismania: votes [8/6/2012 10:03:09 PM] talismania: maybe tomorrow morning though [8/6/2012 10:03:16 PM] talismania: well my time [8/6/2012 10:03:42 PM] Jingle: yeah, I don't think we've had anything productive yet to consolidate on. Maybe tomorrow, I can come out of the closet, and we can use the logs to work from. [8/6/2012 10:04:15 PM] talismania: mmm I would think about it from the other way around [8/6/2012 10:04:24 PM] talismania: like find something in the logs that yo uwan to persue, then go for that [8/6/2012 10:04:39 PM] talismania: just dumping the logs during the last part of the day phase would be too distracting [8/6/2012 10:04:44 PM] Jingle: true. [8/6/2012 10:05:27 PM] Jingle: idk, it's going to be entertaining to try and secure votes with nobody playing [8/6/2012 10:05:57 PM] Jingle: but that's kinda the only thing we can do [8/6/2012 10:06:02 PM] Jingle: good thing it's plurality [9:08:10 AM] Jingle: Ok, so I'm starting to wonder about dropula, just because of his nutjob spam shit hes doing [11:03:55 AM] Jingle: Well, judging by the current activity level, the voting today is going to be kinda stupid. [12:33:55 PM] talismania: the newb thing will go away after a few games [12:34:23 PM] Jingle: it's just the dumbest thing you can do in mafia... [12:34:31 PM] Jingle: discouraging discussion hurts the game [12:34:45 PM] Jingle: unless bke is scum... [12:35:02 PM] Jingle: changing the direction of the thread with an argument would make sense. [12:36:56 PM] talismania: thinking bke probably is actually [12:37:01 PM] talismania: he was touchy early [12:38:27 PM] Jingle: well, we've got VE, I think, and unless we're completely wrong about how he's going to flip, then bke trying to stop discussion on VE while VE is trying to scare votes off himself would make sense [12:38:43 PM] talismania: maybe hier too, maybe synystyr [12:39:02 PM] talismania: wbg still an outside possibility too but hard to say [12:39:03 PM] Jingle: plausible. there's so many people with no filter to read [12:39:10 PM] talismania: oh and hassy of course [12:39:13 PM] talismania: who's been really gone [12:40:31 PM] Jingle: the fun wifom, here, is whether VE is trying to ppush eran as a bus or as a mislynch [12:40:56 PM] Jingle: if he thinks he's more valuable than eran, since eran basically decided to quit on the game, a bus could be valuable [12:41:10 PM] Jingle: woot lunch just got here [12:42:59 PM] talismania: no the eran push doesn't smell like a bus [12:43:37 PM] Jingle: why not? [12:43:39 PM] Jingle: just curious [12:44:03 PM] talismania: because ve was on him before I was on VE [12:44:14 PM] talismania: so ve couldn't have known he was in danger [12:44:46 PM] Jingle: true, but he has been a focal point for most of the day [12:44:51 PM] Jingle: but a valid point [12:45:33 PM] Jingle: i am nervous that we have scum in the people who straight up aren't playing though. [12:45:45 PM] talismania: the inactives? [12:45:47 PM] Jingle: but hard to be sure without lynching into the suspicious players [12:45:48 PM] talismania: we do for sure [12:45:55 PM] talismania: I mean there's 5 scum [12:46:00 PM] talismania: bound to be at least one lurker [12:46:08 PM] Jingle: yeah makes sense [12:46:09 PM] talismania: but they always post before they vote [12:46:17 PM] Jingle: the question is more whether its active or passive lurkers [12:46:21 PM] talismania: that's how you find them, bnased on what they say in that post [12:46:28 PM] talismania: usually active lurkers [12:46:32 PM] talismania: like glasse maybe? [12:46:37 PM] talismania: although he's been loopy [12:47:18 PM] Jingle: yeah, possible. idk. I think at this point, I'ma wait and see how VE flips, then go back through filters and the voting. [12:47:23 PM] Jingle: that's where i do my best work [12:47:57 PM] Jingle: i really don't think ve is gona flip town, of course, but there's never guarantees. [12:48:17 PM] talismania: I really hope he doesn't or I don't know why he's been playing like this [12:48:55 PM] Jingle: yeah. I really don't like snb, but I'm pretty sure i just don't like him. [12:49:02 PM] Jingle: as opposed to a scum thing. [12:49:11 PM] talismania: mmm I think he's town but we'll see [12:49:45 PM] Jingle: if lazermonkey is scummy, I couldn't make a case if I wanted to, it would just start an argument after I had to deal with him in newbie XX. [12:50:01 PM] talismania: lazer? [12:50:04 PM] talismania: he seems really town to me [12:50:25 PM] Jingle: Dude was completely irrational, he asked for a modkill on me when I wouldn't switch my vote off the guy who the confirmed DT checked as red. [12:50:31 PM] Jingle: and he was town at the time. [12:50:40 PM] Jingle: called it me playing against wincon [12:51:01 PM] Jingle: so if he ever ends up looking scummy, i can't even make the case myself. [1:35:08 PM] talismania: you were talking about toad right? [1:35:12 PM] Jingle: yeah [1:35:16 PM] talismania: just say that to lazer no need to get mad [1:35:19 PM] Jingle: blatantly obvious [1:35:27 PM] Jingle: dude has a problem with me [1:35:32 PM] talismania: he probably thought it was me or something [1:39:34 PM] Jingle: he's a pain in the ass [1:40:02 PM] Jingle: that whole game was dumb, but yeah. [6:14:12 PM] Jingle: I hope no crazy shit comes up at the last minute, I got to leave about a half hour before deadline for TKD... [6:14:30 PM] talismania: there's always something [6:14:38 PM] talismania: I'm interested to see if the 5 or so votes that are missing show up [6:14:46 PM] talismania: oh nvm I guess it's like 3 [6:15:12 PM] Jingle: if not, we might get some flips... unfortunately, i really doubt the scum lurkers will miss votes, so they wouldn't be helpful flips The Talis conversation also shows why I stopped being interested in Eran, since I'm sure my in-thread explanation was a bit light in the pants for most people. | ||
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Dropula. The majority of his posts are when the thread is incredibly busy. All of his posts are somewhere between insane and recreational hallucinogen use. He tunnels Zeph, but in a way that makes the case look weak. This is advantageous to a scum regardless of Zeph's alignment if and when he flips. All of his posts seem intended to provoke arguments rather than thought, reactions rather than analysis. More in-depth in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler + On August 04 2012 08:19 CountDropula wrote: Zephirdd's change from one unfounded vote to another tells me that 1. He doesn't care who is lynched 2. He doesn't feel comfortable dealing with pressure, so he fires back on jinglehell counterproductively. Another example of an unsubstantiated position-taking. After a legit response from toad, another switch. He sounds way too meek in the latter quote. Any objections/further evidence backed by specific evidence? Cause I'm leaning toward voting zephirdd. This is one of his only posts that doesn't sound insane. And he makes a weak case on Zeph, then asks if anyone else wants to lead the investigation. Scummy. On August 04 2012 10:16 CountDropula wrote: Your burst of emotion is suspicious. If your play in the first 5 min paid off, why are you continuing the same behavior in the very response where you out it to the thread? Isn't it over? You never mentioned my second point in your response. I'm not the only one who is suspicious of you, but I don't know about a bandwagon. Just give everyone some concrete defense, we will determine that you are green, and this won't take up any more time. Calls a burst of emotion suspicious, but most of his later posting is intended to evoke emotional responses. That doesn't sound like a trap, that sounds like forcing a case. On August 05 2012 03:16 CountDropula wrote: I really think the most important issue for us right now is getting people active. Were giving mafia too much space to hide. Nevertheless, I'm voting wbg right now though that can change. For sure watching zeph though, but I need a better case. Complains about activity. Even though he barely posts, and when he does, it's tunneling Zeph. On August 06 2012 07:37 CountDropula wrote: Oh ok. Ur mad. Thanks. Another attempt to get an emotional response. Laziness. On August 07 2012 00:56 CountDropula wrote: Zephirdd, it's time. I'm calling you out. This post is not me bashing you as a player. I'm picking up on general trends in your play and and using our interaction as an extended example. It's written in the second person because I'm confident you will crack under the pressure. You know this too, don't you?  Zeph. You don't think I read your previous games before our confrontation on d1? You were all about facts and concrete arguments in normal mini mafia 2. So when I tried acting level-headed and nooby (the profile of someone I think your town-self would be comfortable with) to gauge if you were the same town Zeph from that game, you acted in the exact opposite way town Zeph would have. Everything you have against me is against me personally. Little did you know, I was the one baiting YOU. Your first posts looked suspicious, but I wasn't sure yet, so I tried to elicit some kind of response. You then validated my suspicion. You blinked first and outed your "plan" to the thread. You weren't being patient. Your goal was not to build a case. Your goal was to make an excuse for the sake of your appearance. This whole game, all your posts have done is feed the chaos. You don't focus. Examples. You are saying nothing. Ok now this is interesting. Calling town reads a scummy move, yet posting town reads. Your play is getting worse. This last post is swiss cheese. Full of holes. This is such a complete contradiction of your town play that it's absolutely ridiculous. Here is a post from normal mini mafia II. No compulsion to go crazy in response to suspicion because you are town in this game. In Mad Men, you say that nothing is concrete because you don't want it to be. You thrive on chaos. And another one from normal mini. Note the importance he places on facts. Day and night. All you are posting in this game is speculative, your case against me is not complete and irrefutable - actually it's the opposite since its based on so little. Town Zeph would never have done this. This is expected from a lazy scum case. Same thing with that "minicase" on talismania. It's well below the standard of your previous town game. You voted me at 8.59 August 4. I had one post at the time. one. Ever since then you've been pushing me as scum. How can you draw a conclusion like that from nothing? You know something we don't, and you were trying to create a distraction from more relevant issues. If you respond with a crazy belligerent post you just lynched yourself. Honestly you are dead with any response you make, because you are so irredeemably bad at playing scum that you will make a mistake and I will pick you apart with it. Now who's the noob scum? Guys, don't bury this post. Please give it serious thought, cause I've got a really strong read on this guy. If I'm wrong about this, I deserve to be lynched. Get this guy into the spotlight and he will crack. Please. Lets lynch Zephirdd and start killing mafia. Posts a giant read on Zeph, but a lot of it boils down to "baiting" emotional responses. Baiting an emotional response is a scum move, not a town move. An emotional response to a real case is one thing, but this is the first time he actually did anything besides trying to "bait" Zeph. After this, he stops analysis in favor of his "scumpuppet" horse shit, and continues to tunnel based purely off of the same mediocre evidence. I'm strongly convinced we're dealing with CountDropula the scum here. However, even if I'm right and he flips red, I don't think that's indicative either way on Zeph, due to the nature of his "case" it could just as easily be an effort to discredit a real case against Zeph. ##Vote CountDropula | ||
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On August 10 2012 04:26 Lazermonkey wrote: Ya, I know. But you are allowed to lie about being a smurf, right? Nonsense. People have to tell the truth in this game. Are you mafia? | ||
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On August 10 2012 04:39 Lazermonkey wrote: Well I guess the purpose with being a smurf is to avoid people judging you by your meta. Why would someone smurf and then troll the thread to death if he got town? It doesn't make sense. But I guess he could be doing it just to fuck with everyone... Well, let's be perfectly honest... this game hasn't been an ideal situation of town cooperating and scum hunting based on cases. Maybe he started off trying to make his "case" against Zeph properly, it was getting ignored due to being six times longer than it needed to be, so he started trolling. It would fit the rest of the game pretty well, and it seems that sensationalism has been creating more lynches than logic, all to no avail so far. So he swapped his methods around to keep trying to push a lynch. Way I see it, there's three scenarios. A: Fake bus attempt in case Zeph gets flipped red later. B: Attempt to push through a mislynch, (if Zeph is town, which I guess is still possible) selling on how long he's been suspicious, without being the one who swings voters. C: Intentionally useless fluff posting. His posts and case aren't something I can plausibly call contributory or serious, but they're visible and tunnely enough to keep people from calling them out as scummy right off the bat because he calls so much attention to himself. I suppose in interest of fairness I should come up with some hypotheticals that match the posting that assume CD is town. A: He's trying to get the person he sees as the right guy, using the wrong reasons, due to how the vote swings have pushed through. If he's doing this, it's an insult to all of us, and a desperate sort of gamble that most townies don't need to try to take. B: Playing under the influence or trolling townie. I kind of find the scum scenarios more plausible, although, to be fair, this is all WIFOM. | ||
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Mason At the beginning of every cycle, you may send a PM to me detailing who you would like to Mason with during that cycle. You may PM with that person for the full cycle. You may not choose a person you have already Masoned with for the remainder of the game. Mason At the beginning of every cycle, you may send a PM to me detailing who you would like to Mason with during that cycle. You may PM with that person for the full cycle. You may not choose a person you have already Masoned with for the remainder of the game. The Mafia team will have a set number of people to choose as Masons. Mafia with other roles (Roleblocker, Godfather) can double up on Mason roles. So I'd be awfully suspicious, unless the difference in wording from the OP is an oversight. Should probably verify through BC. | ||
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Or were you not reading the thread well enough to spot it, since you're only worried about what's most current in the thread, like scum? | ||
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On August 10 2012 07:46 CountDropula wrote: Shhhh... Quiet... Watch the play, You will see. You will believe. I already believe that you're scummy as hell, ignoring cases against you, posting rubbish, ignoring the thread, and hiding among the clutter. What else, exactly, am I supposed to be seeing? | ||
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However, I think that if people aren't interested in VE, CD is also a great target. | ||
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On August 10 2012 09:01 marvellosity wrote: hmm. DT stuff I don't quite get. Should we just lynch zeph or glasse instead Glasse especially for his annoying "I'm playing like a dick, but I refuse to stop playing like a dick even though I'm telling everyone I'm playing like a dick" attitude Right now we don't have a DT. We have what could easily be a fakeclaim. If it's a scum who's already a high visibility potential lynch, even grabbing one more mislynch for them before dying would be huge. Without having more information about the claim, I feel safer going into a scummy target. What did you think about my Dropula case? | ||
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On August 10 2012 09:07 marvellosity wrote: could someone explain to me clearly and succinctly in one post what 'claim' we've had, by who, who it's fingering, and what it means. Lazy yes but it would be extremely helpful Well, the whole problem is that it's a claim by proxy via mason, saying that Talis is red. He's a decent town read for a fair number of us, and we don't know who's claiming it, which restricts us knowing what it means. | ||
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On August 10 2012 09:13 marvellosity wrote: who the fudge is X? And that succinctly covers why not many people are voting based on it. We all have the same question. Toad is withholding the info. | ||
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Unless he's got some amazing scum meta I don't know about, I really got a townie impression out of him. Also, if he was scum, he probably wouldn't have convinced me to drop Erandorr with good persistent logic... you know, the guy people got mislynched yesterday? | ||
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I'd like to hear this claim from Xsebt, though. | ||
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And I don't like how you're screaming Talis is some giant scumread, when he's basically been lower on the radar than a lot of people who ended up dead, all of whom YOU were pushing for. | ||
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On August 10 2012 10:27 Toadesstern wrote: Also I'm not ranting about how you are (are you?) wrong about the guy. I'm ranting about your reaction and how you're protecting him out of nowhere, without giving a reason or anything at all, without doubting for a second that Talis has to be the townie in this set-up. That's the reason I'm reconsidering you. I'm perfectly willing to admit my read on him was wrong, if it was, and if we have a DT claim I'll vote with it. I've elaborated more than once on why I thought Talis was town, if you can't be assed to track it down, let me help. For one his measured job in skype of helping me get past my Eran tunnel. I can't imagine a scum motive for that. For two, he's not afraid to change his mind if there's a reason, but he doesn't do it at the drop of a hat. Doing that while being active isn't very scummy normally. Add in that on several reads we had similar opinions, and on the ones where we didn't, we were able to discuss it productively, he just didn't feel scum. You'll understand, of course, if I let you do the footwork for yourself to corroborate this, because I've already done my part in saying it. You can try the filter button on any of my posts to make it easier to sift through and find where I've said it. | ||
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I don't want to lynch for information, and I don't want to screw up our odds. But I still want to trust my town read on you. If you can sway enough people on a lynch I'd prefer to get behind, I'll swap my vote up. If you're wrong, we take it as scum confirmation and off you instead. I gave a lot of reasons for my town read on you, and I'm sure that scummy people with an agenda will be targeting me after today's lynch no matter how it goes, since I believe you, so I might as well follow my gut. | ||
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I covered my reasons for not wanting to believe it, I went over why I'm willing to switch if he swings a vote, and I explained why I'll lynch him if there's no better option. Speaking of people who somehow survived what should have been a lynch by pushing the vote onto somebody else, of course, shall we talk about you? | ||
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That said, I don't think CD's alignment would be indicative of Zeph's, but I think he's a higher read, personally. | ||
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On August 11 2012 01:15 CountDropula wrote: It seems as though you want a part in my play, Jinglehell Well, I'd be delighted. You play Julius Caesar, and I'll play Brutus. | ||
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Either we believe this setup is absurd as hell, or we see how today's lynch goes and start looking at cases. I usually don't trust anyone, but starting now, I go into paranoia mode. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 11 2012 06:12 Lazermonkey wrote: Well either both me and Dropula is scum or bot of us is town. I know. And it sounds fucking crazy, but so does the setup people are suggesting we have here. Let's face it though, CD also sounds crazy. The only thing making me think it's plausible is the fact that you'd never agree to something insane like that, and you'd probably bus any idiot who ran it behind your back. If there's two DTs, it could explain the seeming excess of Millers, though. We really need to figure out what to do about this. It starts increasing the odds Talis really is a miller, to me, but you know how bad I hate letting a redcheck live. It's a sign of how sold I was on Talis's townieness that I'm even entertaining the notion of not lynching him. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 11 2012 06:23 Hopeless1der wrote: @Jingle, we have effectively the same scenario on either side: 1)Talis vs. Toad/Xsebt 2) Zeph vs. CD/Lazer If either of talis or zeph flip town (not miller) the 'dt' is a liar and will be killed. I have yet to get any input from xsebt and toad has disappeared. CD and Lazer have actively tried to confirm each other. Lynching the #2 redcheck gives a much more apparent conclusion on how to proceed tomorrow. We do need to lynch one of our redchecks. I'd rather it be zeph. In addition, you're just itching to believe talis is a miller due to your town read of him. We're in LYLO unless we hit scum anyways, lets kill the scummier looking of the redchecks first. The other will still be there tomorrow. It makes sense to me. I'd really love some vindication on my Talis read. Does this situation seem wrong to anyone else? Like, play this game has just been screwy. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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Probably should have used it on someone, but didn't want to lose access to a person by talking to them on such a strange day. | ||
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JingleHell
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Possibly look at the active lurkers, I'm sure there's at least one scum in there. I plan to go through a few filters either tonight or tomorrow morning to try and dig some things up, I know there's a few things on the edge of my mind about a few people. | ||
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JingleHell
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I see people are finally getting onboard for VE. About time. Once my kid goes down for his nap, I'll try and get that filter diving I've been promising done. ##Vote VE | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 14 2012 03:05 marvellosity wrote: Funny that I have to go back 2+ pages in your filter since you even last mentioned VE being a scumread. If by 'about time' you mean 'people are now looking at townie talismania's VE case' then yes. Where were you pushing VE when talis was making his large (good) case? I also remind people reading this that talis was a TOWN-READ for Jingle, so why wasn't Jingle helping push the VE case with Talis?? It must be very convincing to mention my filter when you clearly haven't read it. Handy to make a case out of nothing. I don't know what the hell you're thinking, but if you want to make ME look scummy, you'll have to try harder to push through a mislynch on me. I wanted VE days ago. He somehow got Erandorr through instead. This was after Talis explained point by point why he thought the case against Talis was weaker than it looked, and sold me on it. That was one of the things that also convinced me on Talis. All this information is readily available. You know, in my filter, which will also explain every other thing you're waiting to bring up as "evidence" against me. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 14 2012 03:12 marvellosity wrote: Now who's twisting words? I said it was 2+ pages (beginning of page 3) of your filter where you last mentioned VE as a scumread. This is an incontrivertable fact. Problem bro? You're trying to make things out like I'm "protecting" VE, based on some arbitrary interpretation of information you claim to have looked through, while ignoring all of it. Make a case against me, or don't. Either way, you just blew your cover scum. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 14 2012 03:14 marvellosity wrote: I find your huge defensiveness intriguing Ask around. I always get pissed about batshit, stupid, tinfoil hat cases that ignore the information. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 14 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote: haha. I blew my cover? Wow. Your lack of control of your emotions is as usual your undoing. Such unnecessary defensiveness than a huge OMGUS based on... what? the fact i observed something about your filter? rofl. currently looking at VisceraEyes, Hassybaby, JingleHell, BroodkingEXE, Synstr Right, says the guy who has a very convenient cover of replacing for a lurker, who came in trying to take over the thread, wanting all the masons to talk to him... why, so you could convince them of your innocence? You're trying to somehow make me scum? Just because I've been less of an idiot? Your "replacement BOTD" is officially gone, coming after me with nothing and calling me pointing it out as suspicious an OMGUS is a pretty clear scum motive. Of course, lynching me will prove you're scum, so I have nothing to fear. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 14 2012 03:18 marvellosity wrote: that's the funny thing. there wasn't a tinfoilhat case. there was me observing something about your filter and you blowing up about it. You pretty clearly were implying I'm scum based on the dumbest vague information I could imagine, I suppose you think you can make a real case against me, based on... what? Go ahead, I'm looking forward to laughing in your face as you explain how everything I've done to try and help the town, while being blown off and ignored with every scumread I made, somehow connects me to a plot to fake Elvis's death. Make it or fuck off. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 14 2012 03:24 marvellosity wrote: You so funny, qtpie. I want the masons to talk to me to convince them of my innocence? Nice mafia mindset. No, I want masons to talk to me so I can extract information. Like with VE. I'm not trying to make you scum because you're "less of an idiot", whatever that means. The fact is you're having an unnecessary aneuryism when I pointed something out about VE from your filter. Where's the OMGUS? there's no OMGUS, just using emotive words now are we? "coming after you with nothing" - see, I wasn't even coming after you before, I was prodding you for information. And by god, you've given me that information. Let's play, Jingle. Oh bullshit, this isn't some sort of smoking gun, this is you being too narrow-minded to realize that if you want to attack someone with nothing you should be ready to do something besides turn it into mud slinging. This sort of "bait" shit you're trying to play, it's a load of shit. I don't know where the hell you get the idea that I'm scum because I called you on your weak effort to make me look suspicious based on nothing, which means it can only be scummy. Let me guess, if VE flips red, you'll say I've been bussing him all along. If he flips town, you'll say I wanted distance from the case I had made? That's scum behavior, setting me up so anything can be a case. I'm getting you lynched. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 14 2012 03:30 marvellosity wrote: You're the one slinging mud, dear. Just like scum. You're next. Gonna risk leaving me alive until tomorrow's day cycle to massage your ego, are we? I couldn't kill you at night if I wanted to, but my ego isn't the one going nuts here, you're the one trying to force a mislynch on one of the only people who isn't confirmed who has some measure of town credit. Although a vigi saving us from the danger of you somehow conning the lurkers into killing me tomorrow, with some help from your scumbuddies would be nice. | ||
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JingleHell
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If anyone thinks that's an OMGUS, I'm truly sorry, but there's not much in Marv's filter to work with without going as far off into "what if-maybe" land as he's in. Convenient votes and cases against people who were already seen as scummy to establish town cred after replacing in... (what scum team leaves alive a replacement townie who's getting BOTD again?) and then he goes after the hard target. Me. And no, no mason logs. I had a lot on my plate over the weekend, and showed back up to this nonsense of an attack by Marv, after which I've been trying to keep some distance so I don't get told off again like I did in Newbie XXIII for being mean. Oh wait, who cohosted that, requested me to replace in for him, and should know about the debacle? Right, the guy who wants to turn it into a scumtell. ##Vote Marvellosity | ||
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Of course, I believed Talis was town, I tried to lynch VE days before it happened, and I was on the fence about Zeph for a while, until a solid case was made. But I'm scum, and you're town! This case is absurd, and it's either scummy or a joke. Piss off. If you want to convince me you're town, go for someone who's actually scummy, or at least make a case against me that doesn't ignore the majority of my filter. If you people are actually crazy enough to listen to this shit, you deserve to lose to that guy. | ||
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JingleHell
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Go read, that. Notice how I seem to suddenly shift my opinion. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352668¤tpage=56#1103 Then, actually READ my mason logs with Talis, and you'll see how it makes sense, as he explains shit to me. But hey, you're wanting to lynch me, and just hand the game to scum. (Or win it for them). That's your choice, but if you think you're making a case against me, you're full of shit. Piss off. I won't waste any more time with answering your baseless accusations until you stop cherrypicking a tiny fraction of my filter, or trying to force an emotional response and acting like succeeding at it makes me scummy. I could probably make your filter look just as bad, if you had one. | ||
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JingleHell
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JingleHell
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On August 17 2012 05:10 marvellosity wrote: Come on guys, get your voting slippers on. What has Jingle done this cycle? OMGUS'd me, swore at me, called my case bad without trying to refute ANY of it, made some point about his logs showing he hadn't read my case, and what? In short, Jingle has done nothing this cycle that even remotely suggests he is trying to win this game for town. NOTHING. I clearly want to win this game for town. C'mon. Vote JingleHell. Oh no, I swore at your stupid fucking "case". I was getting ready to kick back and laugh at the sheep for handing you the game, but this pile of shit is a joke. You made a "case" out of personal attacks, lies, and smoke, and you're going to act like that's MY tactic? That's a load of shit and you know it. I made the only effort I should NEED to make to refute your nonsense, I pointed it out for the joke it was. It's inflammatory bilge being dropped like some sort of information, and then you act like I'm the one playing on emotions. I'm sure you and your surviving scumbuddy are laughing hysterically in the QT right now that people are actually buying this. But whatever, if people want to lose this badly, good riddance, I can't say it's been fun dealing with a bunch of narcissistic assholes who yell at me every time I try to make a case anyways, so watching town lose to you will be funny, Marv. | ||
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JingleHell
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Say, explain to me again why hypothetical scum me let you live? Or why hypothetical scum anyone let you live, if you're half as good as people seem to think? Have fun losing, town. I'll come back and laugh at you in a farewell post at deadline. | ||
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JingleHell
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http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/f9YmvTFDT9d Scum QT. There's a bit in there for you. | ||
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JingleHell
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Someone pointed it out once... everybody that suspects Jingle ends up dead. Well, until Marv, who I wanted to shoot, but I figured if there was one thing potentially worse than a case against me, it would be if a confirmed townie took over doing it, and we had two of those after the detectives had to die. | ||
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On August 17 2012 22:50 strongandbig wrote: I think that was a mistake Jingle - there's a difference between being a confirmed townie and being able to bully everyone else into agreeing with you. Although tbh I don't think marvellosity was doing that very effectively - imo it was the scumslip that bke found that sealed the deal, up until that point I would've lynched marv first over you had I been alive. The "case" marv started with was pure fluff. He already planned to make the real one he came back to. His "reaction fishing" was just to get the means to convince the lurkers to vote for me. Any reaction, no matter what, can be made into a spectacle to convince lurkers to vote the right way for the wrong reasons. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 17 2012 22:55 marvellosity wrote: Jingle, you should have NK me, not Lazer. Lazer was confirmed town but that matters for nothing if he's not going to push a mafia case hard I was honestly hoping the lurkers would be swayed on "why the fuck would marv still be alive if this was the case". And I hate confirmed townies. Sure, 20/20 hindsight, and I knew beforehand you were probably more of a direct threat, but I try not to underestimate people, and Lazer can be fairly bright, even if he sucks at convincing people. Giving him confirmed townie status seemed iffy, even if he was insisting on not seeing me as scummy. Was an educated gamble that went bad. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 17 2012 23:29 marvellosity wrote: nuh-uh, my scum meta is to do what is necessary to win. In LIV when it was just me and froggynoddy after the modkills, I protected him for all I was worth because I needed us both alive. Just as a small note to everyone - despite how we went at each other in the thread, Jingle and I have always gotten on pretty well and that still remains the case. Indeed. I just had townie meta to try and live up to. Convincing lurking townies to vote for the right guy is always a shitstorm. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 17 2012 23:46 Zephirdd wrote: Jingle, if there is one thing I believe, is that meta is pure bullshit :D Sure you can determine some players on meta, but you aren't the case. You barely had 5 games played; it's the most volatile part of your meta, and you can't be accused out of it. If you play a game as town, don't ever post thinking "but I need to live to my meta" because it's simply wrong. If people try to accuse you over meta, show them their logic is wrong in this case. That's my 2 cents My meta is the primary reason Marv knew to lynch me. And I don't worry about meta as town, I just acknowledge it. But as scum, it's easy to slip into a holding pattern, like I did. Due to some assistance from townies who didn't want to listen to the nublet, it didn't look scummy, but since Marv knew a townie jingle would never do that, and he knew I would have murdered VE, he knew to push me. | ||
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On August 18 2012 02:42 Keirathi wrote: I don't think that was the case at all. I wasn't following this game, but I was talking to marv and he linked me that case when he made it. Just reading through it, it felt strong enough to me (without going back and reading the rest of the thread) to make you scummy. Your interactions with VE were damning. The fact that you started throwing a shitfit about it instead of even ATTEMPTING to defend yourself was just icing on the cake. E: Also, I think you need to get away from the shitfit meta. I know thats what you do, but you're not going to be able to bully around vets with it like you were in newbie games. I don't bully anyone. The case was nonsense in the context of the thread. Without knowing that it was horribly out of character for me (you're also aware of this) it wouldn't have seemed particularly bad. Most people missed it entirely, because they pushed me out of the thread. Also, if you look through the game, acting like I'm the only person who ever got pissed about a "right person wrong reason" or "wrong person right reason" lynch is ridiculous. I point you to Zeph, WBG, VE... It's kind of a normal reaction. Also, I've never "bullied" people around with it. The success has always come from smacking people over the head with the obvious, sometimes dumbed down a bit until they understand it. The getting pissed part has never been productive. I just had no choice but to do it since Marv was reaction fishing, but it wouldn't have mattered. Marv's ORIGINAL poke at me, before he actually made a case, during the night, was terrible, and had I been town, I'd have targeted anyone doing a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" emotion-exploiting case. See Newbie XVIII where I ripped Vivax apart with just enough plausible deniability to finish things out. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 18 2012 03:37 Toadesstern wrote: yeah thought about that myself. The only thing that really gets in the way of that is someone clicking the wrong guy and sending a message to someone who's in the same game you're in but not mafia as well, but that'd be your own fault :p Other than that, I guess changing your nick in QT's, telling people who everyone is via pm's and only talking about people using those fakenicks should probably work as well, shouldn't it? If I was in the scum QT and that was happening, I'd just look for correlations. "Oh damn dude, you slipped hard" or "shit we need to NK X" would make it fairly easy. By the time you succesfully obfuscate the QT, you'd be better off just using another method of communication. | ||
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JingleHell
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On August 18 2012 04:46 strongandbig wrote: or you could just be careful not to let your qt get googled. That too. | ||
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On August 18 2012 05:17 BroodKingEXE wrote: I find it funny but PMs are easier to read motives than Skype mason-wise. Less likely to get a direct slip, but yes, stuff people take time to compose is more likely to show a hidden agenda. | ||
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