You MAY post your complete role PM. No other mod pms may be posted.
Voting is mandatory and will be done in a separate thread.
Lynch mechanics will be explained below,
48/24 Time cycle, deadline 00:00 GMT (+00:00) (9:00 KST)
Don't make me warn you, I sometimes skip to modkill/replacement.
Setup The Defenders of Earth (Goku, Piccolo, and Krillin) must defeat the forces of
Power Level Lynch
Whoever is voted for by the highest TOTAL Power Level is lynched.
When you vote for someone, you power up your Power Level by 250 for every hour you stay voting for the same person.
Characters each have unique power level base and cap.
Your Power Level resets every time you change targets.
Your Power Level remains whatever it was at dusk until dawn.
I'll answer any questions to clarify pre-game.
Cast of Characters:
Goku
Piccolo
Krillin
Raditz
Nappa
Vegeta
Freiza
Dodoria
Zarbon
Captain Ginyu
Jeice
Burter
Recoome
Guldo
Not all of the above red roles will be in the game. In fact, three won't be. Hmm...
Signups Signups are restricted to players who have played at least two games of mafia on TL. If you feel you should be an exception, feel free to PM me.
Wincons are standard. Mafia must eliminate the Town, Town must eliminate the Mafia. There are no team abilities.
EDIT: To clarify, Town wincon is not "find the Sunflower Samurai", it is to eliminate all red roles.
P.S. There may be Minor Wincons (You can recieve a Minor Victory/Defeat if you accomplish/fail an objective even if your team loses/wins). P.P.S. Knowing the lore will help in this game, but is not necessary.
I'd like to use Samurai Shampoo, does it battle dandruff (it cuts it in half with a katana perhaps)?
Anyways, yeah I'll be in like 3 games but I don't care all games are awesome
/in
My objective: Be in every awesome Themed game with awesome mechanics from now on (I was already on Liar Game, MTG Mafia, Aperture Mafia, Bang Bang Mafia and now on Bureaucracy and this one, so I'm off to a good start!)
On July 12 2012 00:39 GreYMisT wrote: Aren't you forgetting one?
What, of course not >_>
EDIT: Actually Aperture mafia had "regular" mechanics (regular Night kills, lynches, regular scum team, etc), the only thing that it had was awesome roles that weren't common, so I guess it didn't have "awesome" mechanics so it wouldn't really be considered for that list.
On July 12 2012 03:54 wherebugsgo wrote: Thanks for hosting this game in place of mine, iGrok (I hope I didn't cause you inconvenience by moving you up the queue)
I didn't want to host two games at once ^^
No inconvenience. Like I told foolishness, I have my setups written before I ask to be put on the queue - theres a reason I say that should be the rule :p
The downside is this means I write up a lot of setups that will never be played. Here's a list of my unplayed setups:
Night's Dawn Mafia
Dragon Ball Z Mafia
Power Word Mafia
Dune Mafia*
Minecraft Mafia
Sleeper Cell Mafia 3
The Grid Mafia
Demolition Mafia
League of Legends Mafia * (Note: last upadated for Xerath)
Is power word mafia a D&D mafia setup? That sounds prettty fun.
This game is super tempting but after I raged so hard in artanis's mtg mafia I'll be taking a break from theme games until the next mtg mafia, so /obs I guess?
On July 12 2012 03:54 wherebugsgo wrote: Thanks for hosting this game in place of mine, iGrok (I hope I didn't cause you inconvenience by moving you up the queue)
I didn't want to host two games at once ^^
No inconvenience. Like I told foolishness, I have my setups written before I ask to be put on the queue - theres a reason I say that should be the rule :p
The downside is this means I write up a lot of setups that will never be played. Here's a list of my unplayed setups:
Night's Dawn Mafia
Dragon Ball Z Mafia
Power Word Mafia
Dune Mafia*
Minecraft Mafia
Sleeper Cell Mafia 3
The Grid Mafia
Demolition Mafia
League of Legends Mafia * (Note: last upadated for Xerath)
The Game where Everyone Dies Mafia*
* Unfinished setups.
Welcome to my world :-P
I have about 8 theme setups in my notes, and another 4 half finished, ranging from Time Travel Mafia to MLP mafia, I've yet to host *any* of them T.T
On July 12 2012 03:54 wherebugsgo wrote: Thanks for hosting this game in place of mine, iGrok (I hope I didn't cause you inconvenience by moving you up the queue)
I didn't want to host two games at once ^^
No inconvenience. Like I told foolishness, I have my setups written before I ask to be put on the queue - theres a reason I say that should be the rule :p
The downside is this means I write up a lot of setups that will never be played. Here's a list of my unplayed setups:
Night's Dawn Mafia
Dragon Ball Z Mafia
Power Word Mafia
Dune Mafia*
Minecraft Mafia
Sleeper Cell Mafia 3
The Grid Mafia
Demolition Mafia
League of Legends Mafia * (Note: last upadated for Xerath)
The Game where Everyone Dies Mafia*
* Unfinished setups.
Welcome to my world :-P
I have about 8 theme setups in my notes, and another 4 half finished, ranging from Time Travel Mafia to MLP mafia, I've yet to host *any* of them T.T
We need to create Mafia-playing Robots, then force them to undergo Testing... I mean, allow them to play our amazing setups...
On July 12 2012 03:54 wherebugsgo wrote: Thanks for hosting this game in place of mine, iGrok (I hope I didn't cause you inconvenience by moving you up the queue)
I didn't want to host two games at once ^^
No inconvenience. Like I told foolishness, I have my setups written before I ask to be put on the queue - theres a reason I say that should be the rule :p
The downside is this means I write up a lot of setups that will never be played. Here's a list of my unplayed setups:
Night's Dawn Mafia
Dragon Ball Z Mafia
Power Word Mafia
Dune Mafia*
Minecraft Mafia
Sleeper Cell Mafia 3
The Grid Mafia
Demolition Mafia
League of Legends Mafia * (Note: last upadated for Xerath)
The Game where Everyone Dies Mafia*
* Unfinished setups.
Welcome to my world :-P
I have about 8 theme setups in my notes, and another 4 half finished, ranging from Time Travel Mafia to MLP mafia, I've yet to host *any* of them T.T
If this game doesn't fill up by friday, I'll be changing to [M][T] Power Word Mafia, a 12 man setup. I'd much prefer this game to go though, so sign up now!
The minis fill up incredibly fast but the larger ones don't fill up fast. I know a lot of the vets don't play in them because the quality of play is really really low. And if they do play now it's only for specialized themed setups they like (or think they'd like)
ps: if you don't join this, think about the poor cohost who didn't know what was coming! PLAY EEET it will be awesome. edit: I'm stupid, didn't realize it was a 11 player setup :D
So if my character say started with 1000 power level and then voted for a person immediately and stayed on them for 10 hours and then switched to a different person who I then stayed on for six hours, would my power level go up by 4000, assuming I'm still under the cap?
Does everyone start at the same power level or do we not know anything about that?
On July 23 2012 05:23 HiroPro wrote: So if my character say started with 1000 power level and then voted for a person immediately and stayed on them for 10 hours and then switched to a different person who I then stayed on for six hours, would my power level go up by 4000, assuming I'm still under the cap?
Does everyone start at the same power level or do we not know anything about that?
Your Power Level resets every time you change targets. I'll make a note in the OP.
Different characters have different bases and caps.
The universe works in strange ways. A single choice can give birth to several different realities. Something as simple as chosing the left or the right road in a highway, and two completely different realities are born.
On this reality, Raditz didn't go by himself to Earth in order to meet his brother Kakarot. Instead, he communicated the fact to Frieza, who got interested in the idea of finding the last sayan alive in the universe that wasn't on his crew. Frieza took his whole crew: The three sayans, the Ginyu Squad, even Zarbon and Dodoria. They all went to Earth, and destroyed everything in order to find the one named Son Goku.
Tien Shinhan and Chiaotzu tried to stop all that destruction, but they were easily annahilated by the superior forces of Frieza. The fate of the Earth rested in the hands of the three most powerful beings alive: Piccolo Jr, Son Goku and Krillin.
With the help of Kami-sama and Mr. Popo, they disguised themselves among Frieza's crew. Now they must fight from whithin their lines, and wipe out all of their enemies.
Will Goku and his friends save Earth on this alterned, incredibly twisted reality?
Tien Shinhan (GreYMisT) lost his arm and then his life! Chiaotzu (Qatol) self destructed! Mr. Popo (Zephirrd) is scared senseless! Kami-sama (iGrok) is too old to fight! Bulma (GMarshal) feels left out!
Yes. For all intents and purposes, the Defenders of the Earth should be treated as the "Mafia" faction, and Freiza's army(as well as Freiza himself) should be treated as the "town" faction, unless otherwise specified on the role PM.
We all role claim; sequentially; one at a time. If someone duplicate claims, we can post mod PMs for verification (since we can this game). The only chance scum have is if they gamble on a role that isn't in the game and odds are in our favor at least one of them will mess up.
Cons would be scum know who's who. But they still wouldn't be able to learn our power levels without putting themselves in serious danger by duplicate claiming.
On July 24 2012 21:22 Sinensis wrote: Here is a plan I have.
We all role claim; sequentially; one at a time. If someone duplicate claims, we can post mod PMs for verification (since we can this game). The only chance scum have is if they gamble on a role that isn't in the game and odds are in our favor at least one of them will mess up.
Cons would be scum know who's who. But they still wouldn't be able to learn our power levels without putting themselves in serious danger by duplicate claiming.
What does everyone think of my plan?
Its not a good idea. Scum will almost certainly have been given fakeclaims for the characters not in the game.
Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game.
I think that this is probably the best time to take a moment to discuss the lynching mechanics present in this game. To me, it seems like a somewhat "standard" weighted voting system, but with the caveat that the mechanics are designed to punish last minute vote switching. That's a very important note to make: the longer we spend trying to lynch a single person, the harder it becomes to lynch anyone else.
This kind of mechanic can become very important very quickly. One such situation come immediately to mind. For instance: the Town has decided to lynch someone, while a small subset disagree and vote to lynch someone else. If the town decides to pull their votes, suddenly the small subset controls the towns lynch. Because of this, I believe that it's important to consider both who we are and aren't lynching because of the voteswitch. Even if we are convinced that the person being lynched is town, it might be best to not switch merely to maintain control of the lynch.
Because of this, I would propose two policies for the town. First of all, pulling votes from a lynch candidate must be done as a block. Voting shenanigans similar to what's been going on Day 1 in Bureaucracy Mafia is simply unacceptable in this game. As a town, we must work together to control the lynch, and that involves coordinating our voting.
Secondly, post your Base Power Level (BPL), Power Level Cap (PLC), and Power/Hour (PHr) every time you vote. This will allow the town to identify how many votes are on a candidate at any point in time, and help us in identifying if a voteswitch is practical.
Eh revealing your power level isnt such a great idea... Gives mafia an idea of who to eliminate.
I have a very simple way to ensure that lynches happen the way they should: if you are not voting for the candidate with the most votes, then right before the deadline you must switch your vote to this candidate. Effectively, this then becomes a plurality lynch.
@hiroPro: So, your idea is, in a game that punishes vote switches, to make the lynch mechanic based around vote switches?
Also, that's still not a plurality lynch. Different players have different power levels. Essentially, you've introduced a kingmaker mechanic to this game.
On July 24 2012 22:47 HiroPro wrote: Eh revealing your power level isnt such a great idea... Gives mafia an idea of who to eliminate.
I have a very simple way to ensure that lynches happen the way they should: if you are not voting for the candidate with the most votes, then right before the deadline you must switch your vote to this candidate. Effectively, this then becomes a plurality lynch.
That just discourages different viewpoints. How would that be good while trying to scum hunt?
On July 24 2012 22:47 HiroPro wrote: Eh revealing your power level isnt such a great idea... Gives mafia an idea of who to eliminate.
I have a very simple way to ensure that lynches happen the way they should: if you are not voting for the candidate with the most votes, then right before the deadline you must switch your vote to this candidate. Effectively, this then becomes a plurality lynch.
That just discourages different viewpoints. How would that be good while trying to scum hunt?
How does it discourage different viewpoints. You still push for whoever you want, make reads on whoever you want, and vote for whoever you want. The only difference is that instead of say having a 6-5 voting and not knowing who'll get lynched, you ensure that the person with the most votes gets lynched (by moving all votes to them at say 5 minutes before the deadline).
Characters each have unique power level base and cap
So now, you've introduced a new mechanic where we have no idea who's really controlling the lynch. It's not quite kingmaker, but it still introduces a lot of chaos into the lynch. I would rather have more information with a high amount of accountability, even if that does give the scum team more to work with.
Characters each have unique power level base and cap
So now, you've introduced a new mechanic where we have no idea who's really controlling the lynch. It's not quite kingmaker, but it still introduces a lot of chaos into the lynch. I would rather have more information with a high amount of accountability, even if that does give the scum team more to work with.
The power levels don't matter at all though, with the plan I'm describing. Who controls the lynch? The majority does.
Accountability? You still get that by seeing who people vote for and make cases on before the final consolidation.
Player A has a BPL of 5k. Player B has a BPL of 2k. Player C has a BPL of 1k.
Players B and C vote to lynch Player A, Player A votes to lynch Player B. Hammer swings, and Player B flips.
Right now, while we have everyone playing, that's not nearly as much of an issue. However, I don't believe that we can truly make this a plurality lynch.
Besides, what happens when one player decides not to sign up for your plan? Suddenly, the rest of the town is at a disadvantage, because we were planning to vote at the last minute, while the other player(s) have more influence since they started voting much earlier in the day.
On July 25 2012 01:12 ghost_403 wrote: Player A has a BPL of 5k. Player B has a BPL of 2k. Player C has a BPL of 1k.
Players B and C vote to lynch Player A, Player A votes to lynch Player B. Hammer swings, and Player B flips.
Right now, while we have everyone playing, that's not nearly as much of an issue. However, I don't believe that we can truly make this a plurality lynch.
No plan can prevent A from getting what they want there lol. It doesn't matter how you decide to vote.
Besides, what happens when one player decides not to sign up for your plan? Suddenly, the rest of the town is at a disadvantage, because we were planning to vote at the last minute, while the other player(s) have more influence since they started voting much earlier in the day.
Not everyone is switching at the last minute though. Only the people who weren't on the leading candidate. You'll still have players who have been voting for that candidate for a long time and have powered up. 1 or 2 players are not going to be able to stop the lynch.
Not all of the above red roles will be in the game. In fact, three won't be. Hmm...
This line makes me not want to. It's heavily implied that the "Scum" team have fake claims.
As to claiming power levels (base/max/whatever) I'm also hesitant about that. Leaving the strategy of switching votes at the last minute to me feels like giving mafia more control over the lynch. What if they all have really high base powers? What if there are other mechanics involving power levels with their characters? Honestly, sticking to good old fashioned scumhunting and accountability jazz will probably be the way to handle voting/lynching.
On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote: Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game.
Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote: Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game.
Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote: Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game.
Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
Thanks. In my defense, that wasn't actually in the OP. It makes sense to now that I think about it though especially to keep a plan like mine from working.
Whoever is voted for by the highest Power Level is lynched.
People above seem to be operating under the assumption that several people attacking the same target will accumulate power level. The quote seems to indicate that only the single highest power level attack is used. Clarify?
On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote: I think that this is probably the best time to take a moment to discuss the lynching mechanics present in this game. To me, it seems like a somewhat "standard" weighted voting system, but with the caveat that the mechanics are designed to punish last minute vote switching. That's a very important note to make: the longer we spend trying to lynch a single person, the harder it becomes to lynch anyone else.
This kind of mechanic can become very important very quickly. One such situation come immediately to mind. For instance: the Town has decided to lynch someone, while a small subset disagree and vote to lynch someone else. If the town decides to pull their votes, suddenly the small subset controls the towns lynch. Because of this, I believe that it's important to consider both who we are and aren't lynching because of the voteswitch. Even if we are convinced that the person being lynched is town, it might be best to not switch merely to maintain control of the lynch.
Because of this, I would propose two policies for the town. First of all, pulling votes from a lynch candidate must be done as a block. Voting shenanigans similar to what's been going on Day 1 in Bureaucracy Mafia is simply unacceptable in this game. As a town, we must work together to control the lynch, and that involves coordinating our voting.
Secondly, post your Base Power Level (BPL), Power Level Cap (PLC), and Power/Hour (PHr) every time you vote. This will allow the town to identify how many votes are on a candidate at any point in time, and help us in identifying if a voteswitch is practical.
I really don't think we should be claiming our power level bases and caps. Quite frankly there is no real reason to do so at this point in time.
You suggest that "Even if we are convinced that the person being lynched is town, it might be best to not switch merely to maintain control of the lynch." This is exactly the situation we want to avoid as town. The minority is essentially holding the majority in hostage. With no plan or policy, if the majority wants to switch their vote, it's somewhat implied that the vote change is meaningless if there is a small subset who has been building Power. The solution to this is NOT to just keep your vote on a target whom you no longer hold conviction.
Hiro's plan makes complete sense to me and I fully support it. Essentially, we are pretending there are no Power Levels. Why? Because it's a factor we cannot really control and it hinders a majority lynch. We all vote normally and we are all scum hunting as we normally would. This plan HELPS us scum hunt because it allows to put real pressure in the form of a vote that is actually meaningful late in the day. 1 hour before lynch deadline, we all agree to switch votes to whomever has the most votes. Ensuring that the person who the MAJORITY already voted for is actually lynched. There is no kingmaker here, only the insurance that whoever the majority wants, the majority gets. I think it's important to iterate that his plan does not take into effect until the very last hour or minutes of the lynch.
My plan is rubbish and will never work now that I know the actual rules.
However, I have spotted scum, they are ghost_403. Reason: His initial post is criticizing my plan for reasons that aren't actually true. He says "someone didn't read the OP," when in reality there was nothing in the OP that said my plan couldn't work. The reason my plan will not work is not answered until iGrok posts this later in the thread:
On July 12 2012 00:40 gonzaw wrote: So town are scum in this game?
...I'll wait for Kenpachi's "I'm Townie" post on D1 and it to be considered a scumslip >_>
I take it the 3 townies and the Sunflower receive safeclaims right? (from the 4 scum names that won't be in the game)
How do exactly the masons "find" the Sunflower? By PMing you his name or something?
Yes.
That is for them and anyone who has minor wincons relating to them to know.
He is mimicking HiroPro's criticism that I didn't read the OP, when in fact I did and thoroughly. Nothing in the OP says that blue roles have access to fake claims. Especially not the DBZ rules, which are what we are using.
The truth is ghost_403 was afraid of my plan, because he is a defender of Earth. So I'm voting for him.
On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote: Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game.
Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
You seem quite sure that the missing roles are from the Ginyu Force. Why? There's no way to know for sure except for scum.
And this is quite a naked play for power level if I've ever seen one. Scum would not be afraid of your plan because they know they have a fake claim.
Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims.
A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately.
@Sinensis 1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules. 2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP.
That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid.
I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
#1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless.
#2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum.
That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2.
Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early.
On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote: Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game.
Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
You seem quite sure that the missing roles are from the Ginyu Force. Why? There's no way to know for sure except for scum.
And this is quite a naked play for power level if I've ever seen one. Scum would not be afraid of your plan because they know they have a fake claim.
I was looking at the Dragon Ball wiki because I've never watched it (thought this was going to be a Samurai Champloo game) and it said enemies of Earth I.E. TOWN this game are called the Ginyu Force. Also... what? Scum don't know anyone's role except defenders of Earth.
On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote: Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game.
Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
You seem quite sure that the missing roles are from the Ginyu Force. Why? There's no way to know for sure except for scum.
And this is quite a naked play for power level if I've ever seen one. Scum would not be afraid of your plan because they know they have a fake claim.
I was looking at the Dragon Ball wiki because I've never watched it (thought this was going to be a Samurai Champloo game) and it said enemies of Earth I.E. TOWN this game are called the Ginyu Force. Also... what? Scum don't know anyone's role except defenders of Earth.
Oh so it was an issue of not knowing the "lore". Only
Captain Ginyu Jeice Burter Recoome Guldo
are in the Ginyu Force.
Scum know their own fake claims and thus each others.
EBWOP: I just want to point out that the person voting for me wants to either lynch for information or completely randomly.
On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote: I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
On July 24 2012 22:28 ghost_403 wrote: Looks like someone didn't read the OP. Scum team was all given fake claims. Although I am curious as to if their fake claims match their power levels. I would assume they do, but that is something to keep in mind throughout the rest of the game.
Will you point out where in the OP it says the scum team knows which Ginyu Squad roles aren't in the game? I still don't see it and thought I read everything...
You seem quite sure that the missing roles are from the Ginyu Force. Why? There's no way to know for sure except for scum.
And this is quite a naked play for power level if I've ever seen one. Scum would not be afraid of your plan because they know they have a fake claim.
I was looking at the Dragon Ball wiki because I've never watched it (thought this was going to be a Samurai Champloo game) and it said enemies of Earth I.E. TOWN this game are called the Ginyu Force. Also... what? Scum don't know anyone's role except defenders of Earth.
Oh so it was an issue of not knowing the "lore". Only
Captain Ginyu Jeice Burter Recoome Guldo
are in the Ginyu Force.
Scum know their own fake claims and thus each others.
Okay so if I want to call the people who want to kill the Defenders of Earth something what should I call them? What do you call the group of characters with red names if not the Ginyu Force?
For all intents and purposes, the Defender of Earth are SCUM and the red name characters are TOWN, some of whom are in the Ginyu Force.
Btw, your vote is just as bad.
On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote: Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims.
A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately.
@Sinensis 1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules. 2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP.
That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid.
I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
#1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless.
#2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum.
That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2.
Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early.
##Vote: Sinensis
I'm gonna focus more your reasonings than your vote itself. Honestly it's a bad vote based solely off a bad vote.
When is a random vote EVER BETTER than a case even if its based off of flimsy day 1 data? There's no accountability. The success of day 1, I would argue, does not rest upon a successful lynch. You're right; we are more likely to mislynch than actually manage to kill scum. If you go into day 1 thinking that the end result of the lynch is the most important thing to day 1 you'll go nowhere. Planning to vote randomly because of it, day 1, will get you nowhere. Information is inevitable but only if you try to pursue scum (even if it may be flawed). Information lynches don't just magically happen to occur. It's there because of analysis and discussion about the lynch target, not everyone deciding to randomly vote because it's the same odds.
To help those who don't know the Lore: Enemies of Earth in approximate order of appearance, with brief descriptions:
Raditz: Goku's Brother. Saiyan. Wanted to make Goku destroy the Earth. Weakest Saiyan alive. Attempts to kidnap Goten (Goku's son), defeated by Goku & Piccolo.
Vegeta: Prince of Saiyans. Extremely Arrogant. Works for Freiza with Nappa, his "bodyguard". Does not know Freiza destroyed his planet initially, finds out later. Strongest living Saiyan (other than Goku), hates Goku for being stronger and tries to eliminate him at all times. Cannot go Super-Saiyan until after the Freiza Saga.
Nappa: Bodyguard to Vegeta. Very brash. Takes out all of the original Defenders of Earth (Krillin, Tien, Chiaotzu, Piccolo, Goten), and the Earth's military. Kind of dumb. "Vegeta, what does the scouter say about his Power Level?" Defeated by Goku
Dodoria: One of Freiza's right-hand men. Uses his weight to attack people. Knows that Freiza destroyed the Saiyans. Defeated by Vegeta.
Zarbon: Freiza's other right-hand man. Obsessed with his looks. Transforms into a monster form. Defeated by Vegeta.
Ginyu Squad: Freiza's Special Forces Commandos. 5 Total:
Captain Ginyu: Leader of the Squad. Switches bodies with Goku, and then accidentally switches bodies with a Frog. Obsessed with poses.
Recoome: Brute of the squad. Very aggressive, not very smart. Knocked out by Goku, killed by Vegeta.
Jeice: little red guy second only to Ginyu with his love for poses. Works with Burter to take down Goku, fails.
Burter: Tall blue guy, fastest creature in the universe (other than Goku). Works with Jeice to take down Goku, fails.
Guldo: tiny green frogman. Complete coward and physically weak, but he can freeze time for as long as he can hold his breath.
Freiza: Most powerful being in the universe (before being defeated by Goku). Has different stages of transformation, each increased stage increases his Power Level. Destroyed Vegeta's planet and all the Saiyans because they were starting to be a threat, tells Vegeta it was a comet. Kills Krillin (but then, who doesn't?)
For any other Lore questions, feel free to check here
For all intents and purposes, the Defender of Earth are SCUM and the red name characters are TOWN, some of whom are in the Ginyu Force.
Btw, your vote is just as bad.
On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote: Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims.
A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately.
@Sinensis 1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules. 2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP.
That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid.
I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
#1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless.
#2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum.
That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2.
Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early.
##Vote: Sinensis
I'm gonna focus more your reasonings than your vote itself. Honestly it's a bad vote based solely off a bad vote.
When is a random vote EVER BETTER than a case even if its based off of flimsy day 1 data? There's no accountability. The success of day 1, I would argue, does not rest upon a successful lynch. You're right; we are more likely to mislynch than actually manage to kill scum. If you go into day 1 thinking that the end result of the lynch is the most important thing to day 1 you'll go nowhere. Planning to vote randomly because of it, day 1, will get you nowhere. Information is inevitable but only if you try to pursue scum (even if it may be flawed). Information lynches don't just magically happen to occur. It's there because of analysis and discussion about the lynch target, not everyone deciding to randomly vote because it's the same odds.
@Ghost: Do you still disagree with the plan?
I like to think about it this way; at least michaelthe is giving us a choice between the two best scenarios possible for scum.
having not heard much from grush57 gives me an uneasy feeling...he basically lurked/trolled all the way through LVI when he was scum, and got very little attention.
In a mini, the story is different, so know that I am noticing your absence grush.
Fulla as well...speak up. I'm going to spend some time in Fulla's NMM as his play is pretty unfamiliar to me.
I so far do not like the random vote on Sinensis.
I don't think ghost_403's negative reaction to plan is alignment indicative. Some people just dislike planning in general, no matter what their alignment.
For right now, I'm going to be voting grush57 until he speaks up.
also, I'd like to hear an explanation from michaelthe on the post heist spoke of briefly.
michaelthe, your ambivalence to day 1 is worrisome. if everyone played like you day 1, there would be no information to be had for any lynch. random voting just for the sake of buffing up your power level makes it seem like you don't care who dies today. scum also don't particularly care which of us die today. are you scum?
On July 25 2012 07:29 s0Lstice wrote: having not heard much from grush57 gives me an uneasy feeling...he basically lurked/trolled all the way through LVI when he was scum, and got very little attention.
In a mini, the story is different, so know that I am noticing your absence grush.
As far as I know there was a role PM but not an actual start PM?
On July 25 2012 08:08 s0Lstice wrote: also, I'd like to hear an explanation from michaelthe on the post heist spoke of briefly.
michaelthe, your ambivalence to day 1 is worrisome. if everyone played like you day 1, there would be no information to be had for any lynch. random voting just for the sake of buffing up your power level makes it seem like you don't care who dies today. scum also don't particularly care which of us die today. are you scum?
I don't care who dies, I care what people think about the person I picked to die. Also, can we use town and scum rather than reverse colors?
Plus, I'm hoping to get my power level OVER 900!!!
On July 25 2012 07:29 s0Lstice wrote: having not heard much from grush57 gives me an uneasy feeling...he basically lurked/trolled all the way through LVI when he was scum, and got very little attention.
In a mini, the story is different, so know that I am noticing your absence grush.
As far as I know there was a role PM but not an actual start PM?
On July 25 2012 08:08 s0Lstice wrote: also, I'd like to hear an explanation from michaelthe on the post heist spoke of briefly.
michaelthe, your ambivalence to day 1 is worrisome. if everyone played like you day 1, there would be no information to be had for any lynch. random voting just for the sake of buffing up your power level makes it seem like you don't care who dies today. scum also don't particularly care which of us die today. are you scum?
I don't care who dies, I care what people think about the person I picked to die. Also, can we use town and scum rather than reverse colors?
Plus, I'm hoping to get my power level OVER 900!!!
This isn't an acceptable defense of any of your actions, this is struggling like some pathetic Earth creature.
The game started 2 minutes after the role PMs went out. Why does grush need a game start PM too? The rest of us figured it out.
(Time role PM was sent) Zephirdd DBZ Mini Mafia 7/24 09:51 Save / Delete / U
(Time of Day 1 post) On July 24 2012 09:53 iGrok wrote:
All your post accomplishes is dodging real questions with nonsense. You just put yourself and your suspicious friend grush57 on my radar.
Eh, michaelthe's post doesnt say anything about him - from what I remember he said something about day 1 lynches being useless and better to random lynch in both space station and li as town(im on my phone so its a pan to check but im pretty sure).
On July 25 2012 12:11 HiroPro wrote: Im talking about his first post btw. Sinensis I have no idea what youre trying to do with pm times but you should stop...
Did you not read his other post? I'm not going to "stop" who are you?
Michaelthe is defending grush57, the worst player I've ever personally played with, based on this:
On July 25 2012 09:03 michaelthe wrote: As far as I know there was a role PM but not an actual start PM?
So I posted the role PM time and the game start time and pointed out that they are only two minutes apart. Michaelthe is defending himself, AND grush57 with nothing but hot air.
On July 25 2012 12:24 HiroPro wrote: You should stop because doing stuff with role PM times is generally banned and doesnt say anything...
How exatly does michaelthe defending grush lead you to think that grush is suspicious?
In my play book, grush57 starts every game with something to prove. Well, we're 24 hours into a mini where the sooner you vote the more votes you get, he's missing in action, and someone is trying to defend him nonsense.
@heist: I still think the plan is foolish. Like I stated before, this game has a lynch mechanic designed to punish last minute vote switches. That's exactly what this plan encourages. With a small subset of people voting one way early on in the day, it becomes increasingly difficult to control the outcome of the lynch. As town, I don't like those kinds of plans.
Not all of the above red roles will be in the game. In fact, three won't be. Hmm...
This line makes me not want to. It's heavily implied that the "Scum" team have fake claims.
As to claiming power levels (base/max/whatever) I'm also hesitant about that. Leaving the strategy of switching votes at the last minute to me feels like giving mafia more control over the lynch. What if they all have really high base powers? What if there are other mechanics involving power levels with their characters? Honestly, sticking to good old fashioned scumhunting and accountability jazz will probably be the way to handle voting/lynching.
This is a really empty post. I can certainly understand being lost or disoriented with this kind of vote mechanic, but that's not what I'm seeing here. Instead, he's just stating the obvious, and taking a long time to do it. And look at how he ends this post: completely neutral and unhelpful. He's not trying to figure out what's going on in this game, he's trying to blend in.
@hiro: What do you think about going to war with him?
@bio: So what are your thoughts now? You still against the vote switching plan, or you want to just treat this like a normal game? Who do you think we should be lynching today?
On July 26 2012 00:07 ghost_403 wrote: In that case, I'm declaring myself the Minister of War, and I'm thinking we should start with BioSC, because of stuff like this:
Not all of the above red roles will be in the game. In fact, three won't be. Hmm...
This line makes me not want to. It's heavily implied that the "Scum" team have fake claims.
As to claiming power levels (base/max/whatever) I'm also hesitant about that. Leaving the strategy of switching votes at the last minute to me feels like giving mafia more control over the lynch. What if they all have really high base powers? What if there are other mechanics involving power levels with their characters? Honestly, sticking to good old fashioned scumhunting and accountability jazz will probably be the way to handle voting/lynching.
This is a really empty post. I can certainly understand being lost or disoriented with this kind of vote mechanic, but that's not what I'm seeing here. Instead, he's just stating the obvious, and taking a long time to do it. And look at how he ends this post: completely neutral and unhelpful. He's not trying to figure out what's going on in this game, he's trying to blend in.
@hiro: What do you think about going to war with him?
I don't see really anything scummy with that post. It'd be nice to hear him talk about some of the people in this game, though.
On July 24 2012 22:47 HiroPro wrote: Eh revealing your power level isnt such a great idea... Gives mafia an idea of who to eliminate.
I have a very simple way to ensure that lynches happen the way they should: if you are not voting for the candidate with the most votes, then right before the deadline you must switch your vote to this candidate. Effectively, this then becomes a plurality lynch.
That just discourages different viewpoints. How would that be good while trying to scum hunt?
He comes in and asks a question, which is useless and then proceeds to afk. He doesn't offer his opinion on either of the plans suggested in the thread or stick around to make any responses. This is the same type of empty posting that he showed in Bastard 2 as mafia - remember how the only thing he did night 0 was ask what benefits he could gain and cast some light doubt. Contrast to something like LVI as town, where he has no problem making opinions or saying what he thinks personally.
Also, I'm ditching my plan. There's no way it can get implemented when we have 3 people not posting and another 3 who said they won't follow it.
On July 26 2012 00:18 ghost_403 wrote: @bio: So what are your thoughts now? You still against the vote switching plan, or you want to just treat this like a normal game? Who do you think we should be lynching today?
I'm against the vote switching plan. Based on the activity level so far in this game, it would be really hard to have everyone on board anyways. Grush, Maju, Kenpachi, and Fulla have yet to post any large amount, with only Maju posting since the game started.
I'm also not liking Michaelthe's nonchalance with day1 lynches. It's fine to not like the random plans that we come up with, but to seriously think rolling a dice and voting at random helps at all is crazy. His only contribution to the game so far is the vote on Sinensis.
For lynch targets, I would be ok with either him or Maju. There are a few people coasting by this game with bare minimum posts, him being one of them. Grush, Kenpachi, and Fulla all haven't posted anything, and I would rather not waste a lynch on someone who's in line to be replaced/modkilled. That being said, should they come back and not contribute, I would be more than happy to start charging my PL.
On July 24 2012 22:47 HiroPro wrote: Eh revealing your power level isnt such a great idea... Gives mafia an idea of who to eliminate.
I have a very simple way to ensure that lynches happen the way they should: if you are not voting for the candidate with the most votes, then right before the deadline you must switch your vote to this candidate. Effectively, this then becomes a plurality lynch.
That just discourages different viewpoints. How would that be good while trying to scum hunt?
I really don't see any difference between these two posts.
On July 24 2012 22:47 HiroPro wrote: Eh revealing your power level isnt such a great idea... Gives mafia an idea of who to eliminate.
I have a very simple way to ensure that lynches happen the way they should: if you are not voting for the candidate with the most votes, then right before the deadline you must switch your vote to this candidate. Effectively, this then becomes a plurality lynch.
That just discourages different viewpoints. How would that be good while trying to scum hunt?
I really don't see any difference between these two posts.
Look at his posting right after that. Does he disappear? No, in his very next post he responds to BM and says that his reasoning is poor.
On July 26 2012 00:48 ghost_403 wrote: @hiro: So? He didn't disappear in Bastard Mafia 2, where he rolled scum. I see his absence in the thread as being a null tell.
Trying to implement the plan at this point I suppose is futile. So full steam ahead with getting our votes in as early as possible for it to make a difference.
There are essentially 4 lurkers: grush57, Fulla, Kenpachi, MajuGarzett. I was considering voting for one of them, but there's simply no information on them.
grush57 - is useless and tends to lurk no matter his alignment. Possible modkill anyways. Kenpachi - I don't think a veteran like him would choose to purposefully lurk through all of day 1. Reserve judgment. Fulla - despite his initial enthusiasm, not a single post. Don't know what to think. Possible modkill anyways. MajuGarzett - has one question. I'm frankly not seeing the connection between this single action here and his play from the other game. Ghost you said it in your post, his absence in the thread is a NULL TELL.
Null tell for all of them. A better target for me is TheMichael.
This is my impression: Sinensis is a slightly confused, overeager townie. Sinensis' plan is a flop and his vote on ghost is honestly irrational and based on fluff. In other words, he's the perfect easy target for scum. Sinensis was the easiest target, just really setting himself up at that point in the game.
TheMichael jumps on him immediately with a counter vote. I've tried to prod him on his one real post of substance, and frankly I don't like his response. He doesn't care who dies and implies that he's really really weak in Power Level. He is the most suspicious one to me so far, and I'll be putting my vote on him.
Guys sorry, I kept looking for the Samurai thread, I thought it must have been postponed and temporarily hidden or something. Just found out it's this and got renamed. In future PM please!!!!
Since you get stronger from lynching I might as well lynch someone for now. Cancel or change later.
##Vote: Kenpachi
Please PM people who haven't made a post yet? They might not have noticed the rename
Sorry for being gone for so long though I feel not being present isn't a good way to decide a vote.
I agree with heist about themichael's play. He says he just wants to lynch someone randomly. Though he says he would rather lynch for information he is one of the first people to vote before much time has passed and info can be gathered. Also choosing completely randomly is unlikely. He should have at least had some reason for sinensis such as that sinensis had already voted so his lynch would give info. Michael just disregards all logic and votes for whomever he pleases.
On July 26 2012 04:34 MajuGarzett wrote: Sorry for being gone for so long though I feel not being present isn't a good way to decide a vote.
I agree with heist about themichael's play. He says he just wants to lynch someone randomly. Though he says he would rather lynch for information he is one of the first people to vote before much time has passed and info can be gathered. Also choosing completely randomly is unlikely. He should have at least had some reason for sinensis such as that sinensis had already voted so his lynch would give info. Michael just disregards all logic and votes for whomever he pleases.
##Vote: TheMichael
EBWOP I meant is stupid, I fused it with the thought that he just voted for some town player not making the vote completely random.
Ok, I just glanced through LI and Space Station (town games of michaelthe). I really think michaelthe's random lynch/vote on Sinensis doesn't really tell us anything about his alignment.
In Space Station he makes a random vote for mayor and says that he'd like to randomly lynch to kill scum. In LI, he votes for someone because he doesn't like their strategy.
What he's done this game looks pretty similar to me. Could he be scum? Sure, but what he's done so far looks like exactly what he does as town too. + Show Spoiler +
On April 13 2012 09:51 michaelthe wrote: I vote we start with a self-imposed "Accelerated Start". Everyone goto random.org and roll 1-30. You must vote for that person. You can change your vote to some one else but cannot simply unvote.
On April 13 2012 11:03 Node wrote: All right everybody, for this game I'm determined to suck less than I have recently. After re-reading Ver's XXX analysis I've come up with a few goals for my play this game, including making extensive use of PMs, paying attention to player history, being better at differentiating between scum and bad town play, and posting more in general. I'd like to encourage everyone else to adopt similar goals, especially the newer players among us. ^_^
Also, all you prospective captains: I'm going to need more than "hey vote for me". I don't intend to vote for anybody that doesn't have a halfway decent plan for a lynch. (and no, launching Ace out of the airlock for the hell of it doesn't count)
I would random lynch. More likely to hit scum imo.
On April 09 2012 03:06 michaelthe wrote: Scummiest of all so far: GMarshal. What type of goobag Eastern Orthodox bullcrap is this, starting a game on the REAL Easter date!
For serious though, this may make killing lurkers on day1 retarded. It is an actual holiday....
2cents on the bullcrap so far:
Risen/ET: Agree with the sentiment of many that this was just two monkeys needlessly flinging poo.
Tunkeg's list: By your list I am a top 9 player with 1 win as scum in a noob game. Clearly this list is 100% accurate, I'm pretty good at this game. As one of the stronger players, I feel a need on this Easter holiday to help crap players like jackal. Jakal: I will act as your guide this game, all you need to do is embrace me as your mentor, guide, guru, and sensei.
FourFace: 1. You posted you wanted to try a kidney/bladder strategy this game before the game even started. 2. You claimed town and a desire to be less active, but said you would continue to test your strategy. 3. You added to the strategy by creating an alter-ego, which serves simply to confuse the f*** outa the town.
Good news!!! I have early results! Your strategy is crap.
##vote FourFace
On April 09 2012 03:28 michaelthe wrote: and ebwop:
Two Options: 1. He is scum. I havent seen any great reads so far, so I'd say chances of this are 6/30, 20%. 2. He is town testing a stupid strategy. Even if scum or town, chances of it being a stupid strategy: 100%
so we have 120% chance that this is a good lynch.
Fulla, why is it that you have nothing to say about what's going on?
It's 3 hours till lynch and there are honestly no other good alternatives in my mind. The case is weak, but it's day 1 and the case on anyone is going to be weak. I'm just going with my biggest suspicions.
In regards to TheMichael, the issue isn't the fact that he placed a random vote on someone. In fact, I would argue that his vote is NOT random at all. He specifically targeted Sinensis right after Sinensis makes a hasty vote on Ghost. I feel like he's jumping on the easy townie. Of course, I could be misreading it, but who is the better alternative here in that case?
On July 26 2012 06:13 heist wrote: It's 3 hours till lynch and there are honestly no other good alternatives in my mind. The case is weak, but it's day 1 and the case on anyone is going to be weak. I'm just going with my biggest suspicions.
In regards to TheMichael, the issue isn't the fact that he placed a random vote on someone. In fact, I would argue that his vote is NOT random at all. He specifically targeted Sinensis right after Sinensis makes a hasty vote on Ghost. I feel like he's jumping on the easy townie. Of course, I could be misreading it, but who is the better alternative here in that case?
Ok how has no one suggested a minimum wait time on the voting process (atleast d1 and d2)? Allowing people to sit on their lynch target for 2 days is irresponsible.
Being that people have already been sitting on votes, I am going to vote Majugarzett right now, because he is just my first scumread. The fact that he has not reconsidered his vote on themichael after ignoring Hiropro and his concerns to the root of the entire reasoning for Maju's vote.
@maju: Don't you think his vote is a bit hypocritical? Take another look at it:
On July 26 2012 03:51 heist wrote: Trying to implement the plan at this point I suppose is futile. So full steam ahead with getting our votes in as early as possible for it to make a difference.
There are essentially 4 lurkers: grush57, Fulla, Kenpachi, MajuGarzett. I was considering voting for one of them, but there's simply no information on them.
grush57 - is useless and tends to lurk no matter his alignment. Possible modkill anyways. Kenpachi - I don't think a veteran like him would choose to purposefully lurk through all of day 1. Reserve judgment. Fulla - despite his initial enthusiasm, not a single post. Don't know what to think. Possible modkill anyways. MajuGarzett - has one question. I'm frankly not seeing the connection between this single action here and his play from the other game. Ghost you said it in your post, his absence in the thread is a NULL TELL.
Null tell for all of them. A better target for me is TheMichael.
This is my impression: Sinensis is a slightly confused, overeager townie. Sinensis' plan is a flop and his vote on ghost is honestly irrational and based on fluff. In other words, he's the perfect easy target for scum. Sinensis was the easiest target, just really setting himself up at that point in the game.
TheMichael jumps on him immediately with a counter vote. I've tried to prod him on his one real post of substance, and frankly I don't like his response. He doesn't care who dies and implies that he's really really weak in Power Level. He is the most suspicious one to me so far, and I'll be putting my vote on him.
##Vote: TheMichael
His reason for suspecting that Sin was town was because he made a foolish move. Then, he immediately votes michaelThe for jumping in with a counter vote. It seems to me that his counter vote could just as easily make him an easy target. [to be continued]
I'd like to take more time to work this out, but I have to run out the door. I might have a moment to pop in later, but I'm not optimistic. I would encourage everyone to at least take a look at heist. michaelThe isn't a terrible lynch, but we can do better.
On July 26 2012 07:09 s0Lstice wrote: catching up now, welcome mattchew
I'm gonna unvote, I don't really want to kill Mattchew right now.
this game is very slow. lets converse for a bit, what do you think of Maju and his vote on michael, and what do you think of Hiropro's defense of michael
firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard.
I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt?
On July 26 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote: firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard.
I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt?
Kind of. When I first read michaels posts I was like, "wtf could he be more apathetic about this lynch?!" Once I read hiro's explanation he went back to a null tell. I think the fact that Maju's reasoning for voting is purely the fact that he is doesn't like a random lynch and that he thinks michael is scum for that. However, I find a huge contradiction in what Maju is doing to michael. Maju says michaels vote is without logic (even though he attempted to justify it, much better than Maju did) and also clings to a single reason, which is what he says makes michael scum.
Sorry about the time. I'm reading 17:00 PDT, which is 5:00PM.
On July 26 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote: firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard.
I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt?
The bolded statement is exactly the same reason I'm voting for TheMichael, to a tee.
I lean town on sinesis cause he is trying to find a way to "mod-confirmably" find scum, so much so that he has been warned for cheating. He seems to be genuinely trying to find a way to out scum.
Same with michael oddly enough. The thing about his vote on sinesis is that while the reasoning is, at best, meh, I think that his tone dictates that he actually believes in what he has written to be a real town motivated reason to vote sinesis
i just realized i replaced maju with michael when talking about the defense.
I agree with your reasoning on Maju's vote. I feel more comfortable killing him than anyone else right now.
##vote majugarzett
what did you have in mind specifically as far as managing the votes? I should say that I would support some limits because a)it stops scum from getting away with standing pat on early votes for the purpose of building/maintaining power (in lieu of any better explanation) b)helps prevent any foul ups in the way of an early voter shutting down a late vote switch
perhaps we can only vote once the day is half over?
you say you are voting for michaelthe for the same reasons I suspect Maju, but I don't see the two situations as the same thing. whether you like it or not, michael is not voting for something he finds particularly scummy. he says he is voting randomly, and provides reasons for doing so. you see the difference, yes?
Option #1- HAHA, my plan has worked. I have confused the town so much that they voted for a character not in game because they can't even spell right!
Option #2- You have proven my theory correct, even when my play has been shown to be consistant with my previous day 1's. You are mostly idiots.
There hasn't been enough quality discussion for me to change my vote. You have all though, adequately proven my point, in light of evidence that my town meta always plays this way.
The argument that I didn't random is of course possible. Obviously, the cup in front of me, but that isn't even needed on day 1.
Right now this is what I know I face: a town with embedded scum trying to move a vote to any townie. The town is useless (can't even copy paste my name) and the scum are not useless day 1 (they are pushing their agenda. On the other hand, I have my random. I wish I could vote for info, but the day 1 discussion was terrible.
Hmm.. that is not how I've been seeing this entire thing. Michaelthe is saying he'll vote randomly and gives his reasoning, but his actual vote is NOT random at all and targeting an easy townie.
This is Sinensis' post:
On July 25 2012 04:35 Sinensis wrote: My plan is rubbish and will never work now that I know the actual rules.
However, I have spotted scum, they are ghost_403. Reason: His initial post is criticizing my plan for reasons that aren't actually true. He says "someone didn't read the OP," when in reality there was nothing in the OP that said my plan couldn't work. The reason my plan will not work is not answered until iGrok posts this later in the thread:
On July 12 2012 00:40 gonzaw wrote: So town are scum in this game?
...I'll wait for Kenpachi's "I'm Townie" post on D1 and it to be considered a scumslip >_>
I take it the 3 townies and the Sunflower receive safeclaims right? (from the 4 scum names that won't be in the game)
How do exactly the masons "find" the Sunflower? By PMing you his name or something?
Yes.
That is for them and anyone who has minor wincons relating to them to know.
He is mimicking HiroPro's criticism that I didn't read the OP, when in fact I did and thoroughly. Nothing in the OP says that blue roles have access to fake claims. Especially not the DBZ rules, which are what we are using.
The truth is ghost_403 was afraid of my plan, because he is a defender of Earth. So I'm voting for him.
##vote: ghost_403
This is michaelthe's post 17 minutes later:
On July 25 2012 04:52 michaelthe wrote: Ignoring a games unique mechanic- power levels- is a little bit silly to me. While it may be difficult to see valuable data in a hidden stat at this point of the game, it will be very valuable in later stages to look at early votes and estimate power levels, or perhaps compare claims.
A system that attempts to never obtain data from power levels is restricting potential information, therefore bad. On the other hand, I don't think open PL claims are ideal immediately.
@Sinensis 1) Acknowledge plan is rubbish due to rules. 2) Claim you have a scum read because someone pointed #1 out to you. The misstated that the rule was in a clarification rather than OP.
That's not even close to a scum read. That's just stupid.
I honestly think the town is terrible at scum reads on day 1. I advocate for one of two things: 1) a vote that will give information, or 2) a random vote.
#1 is ideal, but only an option in some situations. If there is a clear schism between two groups, certain voting blocks emerging, people defending hard, etc. then this can be used. But just someone making a crap case based on crap day 1 analysis (no hard data yet) I think is useless.
#2 is more likely to be the case on day 1. I have two reasons for support a random vote: 1. Town is bad at day 1 reads. I did analysis of this once based off TL data. And 2. Scum will be actively- though subtly- pushing their agenda, whereas the town cannot effectively do this. This increases the chance of a townie kill if we go off crap day 1 reads. We will still gain data based off who voted when, who pushed for who, who supported the kill- regardless of if we hit a townie or scum.
That said, I will be hoping that #1 is the case today, and will be examining everyone’s play/claims/attacks/support to see if there is any vote that will gather significant data for day 2.
Otherwise, I will be rolling a random number now, and voting on that person due to how the mechanics work, it's best to do this early.
##Vote: Sinensis
It seems to me that he is calling out the logic (or lack thereof) from Sinensis' post and uses it as his justification for his vote on.... Sinensis. At the end he even states that he'll "otherwise, I will be..." voting randomly implying he hasn't done so yet. Or are you telling me that the he manages to randomly roll the one person he criticizes in his post?
Yeah sorry about getting your name wrong, but you must understand that it's skeptical for me that in the very same post you say exactly why Sinensis is wrong, you also vote for him leading me to believe there was a connection to your vote and not randomness.
i wish i agreed with you heist. i'll be calling him themichael for the rest of this game because i think his attitude sucks, so him being dead would be cool.
On July 26 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote: firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard.
I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt?
Kind of. When I first read michaels posts I was like, "wtf could he be more apathetic about this lynch?!" Once I read hiro's explanation he went back to a null tell. I think the fact that Maju's reasoning for voting is purely the fact that he is doesn't like a random lynch and that he thinks michael is scum for that. However, I find a huge contradiction in what Maju is doing to michael. Maju says michaels vote is without logic (even though he attempted to justify it, much better than Maju did) and also clings to a single reason, which is what he says makes michael scum.
My main reason for lynching Michael is actually that he says he wants to lynch for information then votes before he gets any information. Also, my vote has to be more logical than his as he claims his vote is random.
On July 26 2012 07:22 s0Lstice wrote: firstly, I agree with the defense. I don't think there is a strong meta argument to be made on Maju at the moment. There is just not enough to go on in that regard.
I however find his vote on michaelthe pretty suspicious. I think this is a good enough reason to kill him today, honestly. It feels a lot like a scummer latching on to the first blatantly scummy thing a townie does and running with it. His tone when he explained the vote seemed really played up. It's obvious the reasoning is pretty shitty (why not be upfront about it), but he talks it up anyway. Do you agree Matt?
So you're saying that I'm scum for wanting to lynch someone who did something scummy?
1- I'm the stupidest player ever for attacking someone, saying Im going to random, then actually picking that person IN THE SAME POST ON THE FIRST PAGE ON THE FIRST DAY. If I were scum picking a random town, I can't explain how bad this play would be. But I guess I wouldn't expect you to understand (see 2)
2- I'm correct in how bad you are all as town. You continue to prove my point, and should I die, it's at least a small victory in that I can point at how absolutely bad town is in day 1.
You are Jeice, member of the Ginyu Squad! Since you are all part of the same team, you cannot kill yourselves. As such, your power is ignored when voting someone from the Ginyu Squad.
For each Ginyu Squad member voting the same person, 1000 power is added to the vote.
You have 1500 base power level, at a maximum of 10000. You know that REDACTED is REDACTED your ally and member of the Ginyu Squad.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
It is now Night. Please submit your actions to both myself and Zephirrd by 9:00 KST
this is a mini mafia.. tbh, my experiences with these are minimal cause i generally play a lot of medium sized games (and was hoping a normal sized game for Champloo >_>)
Can we get a vote count? From the looks of it, Town looks completely disorganized and i feel its too hard for us to look into the votes to find the scum
For now, i have nothing useful to say meh.. i just want to let you guys know i tried
also i have a pretty funny plan. By pure speculations, id say Goku has the highest powerlevel out of everyone i bet, even over Vegeta. what if we assign every player to vote one another and use 1 person as a scape goat to find Goku? Earlier the better since he will be a bitch to deal with later on..
On July 26 2012 10:04 Kenpachi wrote: also i have a pretty funny plan. By pure speculations, id say Goku has the highest powerlevel out of everyone i bet, even over Vegeta. what if we assign every player to vote one another and use 1 person as a scape goat to find Goku? Earlier the better since he will be a bitch to deal with later on..
This might backfire if Vegeta is his equal :/
This plan does not account for special abilities, it would be impossible to get everyone to post at the exact same time to mitigate the power level increase over time, and it relies on every player in the game being honest.
For those three reasons, I think your plan will not work.
Instead I think we should be focusing on what a terrible vote MajuGarzett was Day 1 and why the people who voted him should be in the spotlight.
lol thats not right. mafia could have jumped on any of the wagons and killed a player of their choice since we were so spread apart. I want to look at the other candidates
On July 26 2012 10:12 Kenpachi wrote: lol thats not right. mafia could have jumped on any of the wagons and killed a player of their choice since we were so spread apart. I want to look at the other candidates
That's exactly what mafia did. They jumped on a player of their choosing, MajuGarzett, who otherwise was playing fine. They succeeded since we were so spread out. Which is why we should focus on the people who voted him.
On July 26 2012 04:08 Fulla wrote: Guys sorry, I kept looking for the Samurai thread, I thought it must have been postponed and temporarily hidden or something. Just found out it's this and got renamed. In future PM please!!!!
Since you get stronger from lynching I might as well lynch someone for now. Cancel or change later.
##Vote: Kenpachi
Please PM people who haven't made a post yet? They might not have noticed the rename
and then he never comes back or changes his vote
Michaelthe, i expect your thoughts and reads now that it is no longer day 1
s0l if this was the beginning of day 1 I would have pushed unbelievably hard for a no votes before -12 hours before deadline. The reason for this is because without knowing everyones powers, the most likely way have the majority candidate lynched is by not having any other factors (power-hours voting) be affecting. Especially on day 1 when reads are constantly changing. However since we haven't set down a town voting guidelines for people to follow, there is no point to now on day 2. I will use my vote early tomorrow as a way of pressuring my current scum reads
For the post game, whoever was Maju's ally and knew of their towniness and didn't speak up.... fuck that. You single-handily could have saved a townie from a lynch and you didn't say anything. No matter what is said, that IS terrible play.
Sinensis for someone who claims "what a terrible vote MajuGarzett was Day 1" you had your vote left on me, someone who replaced into the game. Does that show that you cared about the lynch at all? I find it pretty weird that you couldnt be arsed to change your vote or ask others to change with you or even post in the thread about who the current lynch target was, but somehow you are back in the thread willing to yell at everyone about the lynch under an hour after the post is made
On July 26 2012 04:08 Fulla wrote: Guys sorry, I kept looking for the Samurai thread, I thought it must have been postponed and temporarily hidden or something. Just found out it's this and got renamed. In future PM please!!!!
Since you get stronger from lynching I might as well lynch someone for now. Cancel or change later.
##Vote: Kenpachi
Please PM people who haven't made a post yet? They might not have noticed the rename
and then he never comes back or changes his vote
Michaelthe, i expect your thoughts and reads now that it is no longer day 1
On July 26 2012 23:13 Mattchew wrote: For the post game, whoever was Maju's ally and knew of their towniness and didn't speak up.... fuck that. You single-handily could have saved a townie from a lynch and you didn't say anything. No matter what is said, that IS terrible play.
Sinensis for someone who claims "what a terrible vote MajuGarzett was Day 1" you had your vote left on me, someone who replaced into the game. Does that show that you cared about the lynch at all? I find it pretty weird that you couldnt be arsed to change your vote or ask others to change with you or even post in the thread about who the current lynch target was, but somehow you are back in the thread willing to yell at everyone about the lynch under an hour after the post is made
There wasn't even a case on Maju. Someone pointed out that he voted michaelthe because michaelthe wanted to either random lynch or lynch for into. Somehow that makes him suspicious? Three of the votes were in the last two hours of voting.
We've had woefully low amounts of activity on day 1. I was hoping for more people to pick a target and go after them. Just as importantly, you need to comment on what other people are saying.
The idea is that we will be able to find scum tells in how they craft their cases and respond to others. So in that regard, day 2 I expect to see significantly more activity.
As for reads near the end of the night- nothing firm from me. I have a fair number of light reads and a few data points, but I'd like to combine this with day 2 discussion tomorrow.
On July 26 2012 23:13 Mattchew wrote: For the post game, whoever was Maju's ally and knew of their towniness and didn't speak up.... fuck that. You single-handily could have saved a townie from a lynch and you didn't say anything. No matter what is said, that IS terrible play.
Sinensis for someone who claims "what a terrible vote MajuGarzett was Day 1" you had your vote left on me, someone who replaced into the game. Does that show that you cared about the lynch at all? I find it pretty weird that you couldnt be arsed to change your vote or ask others to change with you or even post in the thread about who the current lynch target was, but somehow you are back in the thread willing to yell at everyone about the lynch under an hour after the post is made
There wasn't even a case on Maju. Someone pointed out that he voted michaelthe because michaelthe wanted to either random lynch or lynch for into. Somehow that makes him suspicious? Three of the votes were in the last two hours of voting.
He parked his vote on someone and ignored discussion about it.
On July 27 2012 06:49 michaelthe wrote: We've had woefully low amounts of activity on day 1. I was hoping for more people to pick a target and go after them. Just as importantly, you need to comment on what other people are saying.
The idea is that we will be able to find scum tells in how they craft their cases and respond to others. So in that regard, day 2 I expect to see significantly more activity.
As for reads near the end of the night- nothing firm from me. I have a fair number of light reads and a few data points, but I'd like to combine this with day 2 discussion tomorrow.
so why don't you enlighten us to these light reads and few data points you have.. unless you know you will be surviving tonight
@michaelthe I'm willing to see that my way of looking at your day 1 actions was wrong. But you can hardly call us out for bad town play and lack of an information lynch, when you yourself have done nothing at all to really contribute day 1. I would really like to hear your reads and not act like some third party observer. You are a part of this town too.
@Sinensis Why why why would you not claim in that situation? You literally ignored your only ability this game. Also, you seem zealous to avenge your partner but don't expect every single mafia to be neatly tied up in a box among the group that voted for Maju.
On July 27 2012 07:32 heist wrote: @michaelthe I'm willing to see that my way of looking at your day 1 actions was wrong. But you can hardly call us out for bad town play and lack of an information lynch, when you yourself have done nothing at all to really contribute day 1. I would really like to hear your reads and not act like some third party observer. You are a part of this town too.
@Sinensis Why why why would you not claim in that situation? You literally ignored your only ability this game. Also, you seem zealous to avenge your partner but don't expect every single mafia to be neatly tied up in a box among the group that voted for Maju.
On July 27 2012 07:32 heist wrote: @michaelthe I'm willing to see that my way of looking at your day 1 actions was wrong. But you can hardly call us out for bad town play and lack of an information lynch, when you yourself have done nothing at all to really contribute day 1. I would really like to hear your reads and not act like some third party observer. You are a part of this town too.
@Sinensis Why why why would you not claim in that situation? You literally ignored your only ability this game. Also, you seem zealous to avenge your partner but don't expect every single mafia to be neatly tied up in a box among the group that voted for Maju.
Mind explaining that part of your post to me?
Maju's flip had a part in it where he was told of one member of the Ginyu squad. Right before he died, he said "Don't kill Sinensis, he's town"
I would gather that he put 2 and 2 together and gave sin confirmed town based on his role PM.
So having a look at Fulla's past games as town, I don't see parallels. He has been pretty silent here, and him leaving his vote on Kenpachi while ignoring the other stuff going down in the thread doesn't seem at all like what he does as town. I'm talking about NMMXXI, for reference. Fulla, who is scum?
BioSC I am unsure on right now. His filter is small and has some pretty garbagy stuff in it, but his opposition to the plan gave me a townie vibe. Bio, who do you think is scum?
I am with mattchew in wanting to hear ANYTHING you have to offer themichael, so get to sharing please.
Kenpachi, I'll be expecting some reads soon as well.
EDWOP: Hmmm. Just before I start assuming something incorrect again... Sinensis, did you know who Maju was? Or are your powers completely different? You don't have to say what they are.
S0lstice, I'll look through Fulla's other games before coming to a judgment, but based solely on his activity and behavior here, he's not looking too townie.
On July 27 2012 07:55 heist wrote: S0lstice, I'll look through Fulla's other games before coming to a judgment, but based solely on his activity and behavior here, he's not looking too townie.
please be a little more hesitant in your assertions
On July 26 2012 00:18 ghost_403 wrote: @bio: So what are your thoughts now? You still against the vote switching plan, or you want to just treat this like a normal game? Who do you think we should be lynching today?
I'm against the vote switching plan. Based on the activity level so far in this game, it would be really hard to have everyone on board anyways. Grush, Maju, Kenpachi, and Fulla have yet to post any large amount, with only Maju posting since the game started.
I'm also not liking Michaelthe's nonchalance with day1 lynches. It's fine to not like the random plans that we come up with, but to seriously think rolling a dice and voting at random helps at all is crazy. His only contribution to the game so far is the vote on Sinensis.
For lynch targets, I would be ok with either him or Maju. There are a few people coasting by this game with bare minimum posts, him being one of them. Grush, Kenpachi, and Fulla all haven't posted anything, and I would rather not waste a lynch on someone who's in line to be replaced/modkilled. That being said, should they come back and not contribute, I would be more than happy to start charging my PL.
Look carefully at his vote. He's not voting Maju because he think he's scum. He's voting for him (presumably) because he's "coasting by this game with bare minimum posts". And, to top it all off, he didn't even say that directly about Maju! That quote is directed primarily towards MT, with Maju being pick number two.
After Hiro jumps into the thread suspecting Maju, Bio treats his vote like it's the most logical thing in the world. There's some kind of gap in logic between those two things, and Bio hasn't noticed that, or he doesn't care.
I believe this is because he's not trying to find scum.
Top 3 reads for me right now: Fulla, michaelthe, and Kenpachi.
Fulla: There is a whole lot of nothing in these posts, considering there is only 2 for the whole game. Keeps his vote on Kenpachi since coming in the game, then offers a pretty useless post pressuring Kenpachi to say something. Doesn't look at the votes, doesn't add anything to the conversation about Maju, nothing. I feel like this was a throwaway vote because town simply wasn't pressuring the right people, and it was a safe enough vote for him. He's the one I would most like to vote tomorrow.
michaelthe: Attitude in thread sucks. I'm not inclined to believe that anyone wanting to be helpful posts like this:
On July 26 2012 08:32 michaelthe wrote: I guess it boils down to this:
1- I'm the stupidest player ever for attacking someone, saying Im going to random, then actually picking that person IN THE SAME POST ON THE FIRST PAGE ON THE FIRST DAY. If I were scum picking a random town, I can't explain how bad this play would be. But I guess I wouldn't expect you to understand (see 2)
2- I'm correct in how bad you are all as town. You continue to prove my point, and should I die, it's at least a small victory in that I can point at how absolutely bad town is in day 1.
Never has anyone attacked you as a person, stop trying to take the hurt/martyr road. Your random vote plan sucked, and when people told you it did, you offered nothing to help us actually find scum.
Kenpachi: Obviously late to the party, for whatever reason. That's fine, i'm not holding that against you. What I don't like, are posts such as these.
On July 26 2012 10:00 Kenpachi wrote: this is a mini mafia.. tbh, my experiences with these are minimal cause i generally play a lot of medium sized games (and was hoping a normal sized game for Champloo >_>)
Can we get a vote count? From the looks of it, Town looks completely disorganized and i feel its too hard for us to look into the votes to find the scum
For now, i have nothing useful to say meh.. i just want to let you guys know i tried
On July 27 2012 01:51 Kenpachi wrote: i still have no reads
We have 3 days of posts, its not a lot, but you have to have SOMETHING. I don't like someone coasting by not offering any kind of help to town. You obviously aren't getting replaced/modkilled, you need to be more helpful. Of course, if you are defending earth, please go ahead and stay that way.
Those are my reads right now. Should I not make it through the night, I would go after fulla/michael.
On July 26 2012 23:34 HiroPro wrote: Matt, judging by Maju's last post Sinensis is his teammate -_-
Fulla was in MTG right? Is he always this inactive/useless?
Sorry guilty of both :/ I've actually have been away past 24 hours.
I read the suggestion and why don't we seriously all role claim? It's a good chance of catching 1 person out, with 2 ppl claiming same role.
It obviously relies on a bit of luck with scum being the first few to claim. As they naturally would pretend to away to avoid this I suggest the following:
We vote on the scumiest players as a group, the top 3 role claim 1st then the rest
This should atleast stack the odds in our favour a little? I'd be happy to go first.
@Ghost: Can you point out exactly where I thought that Maju WASN'T the person I said was coasting by? Because I'm pretty sure that it was the exact reason I voted him. Not sure where you got the idea that I was saying that about mike.
Once Hiro voted Maju, I felt that my reasoning for voting him was sound and went through with the vote. Was it a wrong vote? Yeah, add that to the stack of bad day 1 reads. But, for my reasonings, I stand by my vote.
On July 27 2012 08:29 ghost_403 wrote: Well, I'm voting Bio as soon as the Day post hits.
You're honestly trying to convince me is composed of two people who were gone Day 1, and another person who kind of useless?
Gone for HALF of Day 1.
Are YOU honestly trying to convince me that we should ignore people who are offering NOTHING to the thread, nothing to the game? On what? Because someone asked me for my reads and I gave them? Because I didn't like a plan based around last minute vote switches? Perhaps I should take another look through your filter.
On July 27 2012 08:24 BioSC wrote: Top 3 reads for me right now: Fulla, michaelthe, and Kenpachi.
Fulla: There is a whole lot of nothing in these posts, considering there is only 2 for the whole game. Keeps his vote on Kenpachi since coming in the game, then offers a pretty useless post pressuring Kenpachi to say something. Doesn't look at the votes, doesn't add anything to the conversation about Maju, nothing. I feel like this was a throwaway vote because town simply wasn't pressuring the right people, and it was a safe enough vote for him. He's the one I would most like to vote tomorrow.
I'm favoring going after the people that bandwagon'd onto the kill vote.
@Bio: There's a difference between the people who are offering nothing to the thread because they are gone and people who are offering nothing to the thread because they are scum. Do you really feel that Kenpachi and Fulla fit into the second group?
And the rest of that post feels like a chainsaw defense, so I'm going to ignore it.
On July 27 2012 08:47 ghost_403 wrote: @Bio: There's a difference between the people who are offering nothing to the thread because they are gone and people who are offering nothing to the thread because they are scum. Do you really feel that Kenpachi and Fulla fit into the second group?
And the rest of that post feels like a chainsaw defense, so I'm going to ignore it.
Fine, I'll concede that I may have gotten a bit salty. But they aren't gone. They both are in the thread now. Fulla before the deadline, and Kenpachi right after. Both have yet to offer any real scum hunting.
It's close to deadline, so I'll stop posting till Day. If I can't convince you of my innocence, then I suppose that's that.
On July 26 2012 23:34 HiroPro wrote: Matt, judging by Maju's last post Sinensis is his teammate -_-
Fulla was in MTG right? Is he always this inactive/useless?
Sorry guilty of both :/ I've actually have been away past 24 hours.
I read the suggestion and why don't we seriously all role claim? It's a good chance of catching 1 person out, with 2 ppl claiming same role.
It obviously relies on a bit of luck with scum being the first few to claim. As they naturally would pretend to away to avoid this I suggest the following:
We vote on the scumiest players as a group, the top 3 role claim 1st then the rest
This should atleast stack the odds in our favour a little? I'd be happy to go first.
I am glad you are back, with no reads mind you. I at going to deduce from the OP, that since it has 11 town name-roles and theres 11 players, that each scum member has a fake claim that wont conflict with town... so stop it with this shit plan and move on to reads
On July 26 2012 23:34 HiroPro wrote: Matt, judging by Maju's last post Sinensis is his teammate -_-
Fulla was in MTG right? Is he always this inactive/useless?
Sorry guilty of both :/ I've actually have been away past 24 hours.
I read the suggestion and why don't we seriously all role claim? It's a good chance of catching 1 person out, with 2 ppl claiming same role.
It obviously relies on a bit of luck with scum being the first few to claim. As they naturally would pretend to away to avoid this I suggest the following:
We vote on the scumiest players as a group, the top 3 role claim 1st then the rest
This should atleast stack the odds in our favour a little? I'd be happy to go first.
I am glad you are back, with no reads mind you. I at going to deduce from the OP, that since it has 11 town name-roles and theres 11 players, that each scum member has a fake claim that wont conflict with town... so stop it with this shit plan and move on to reads
That's only if scum are the last to role claim, if they are the first they MUST take a gamble and guess. Where a strong chance that role will be taken already and a ppl can call them out for it.
On July 26 2012 04:08 Fulla wrote: Guys sorry, I kept looking for the Samurai thread, I thought it must have been postponed and temporarily hidden or something. Just found out it's this and got renamed. In future PM please!!!!
Since you get stronger from lynching I might as well lynch someone for now. Cancel or change later.
##Vote: Kenpachi
Please PM people who haven't made a post yet? They might not have noticed the rename
Post #1: A vote with no justification or reads. Just simply a name. Excuses himself by saying he can always change later, but wants a name down now to build power. Gives absolutely no weigh in to the other lynches gaining more power (specifically Maju) later and does not take off his vote.
On July 26 2012 05:34 Fulla wrote: Kenpachi was the first 1 to reply, but since then has said nothing. What does he have to say?
Post #2: When challenged to reinforce his vote and thoughts on Kenpachi, he deflects his own lack of any analysis or reads and only offers that Kenpachi has also nothing.
His biggest fault is not providing any of his own insight, reads, or opinions on the other lynch targets after he's realized the game's started. When pressured he deflects and uses Zenpachi as a shield.
In MTG Mafia, he is a townie. In the early game, he admits he's new but realizes it's imperative for a townie to keep contributing and steadily provide more input. At the very least he's agreeing and disagreeing with the current reads even if he has nothing new. In this game, he has done neither. He has hidden behind Zenpachi's lack of posts to excuse his own lack of posts and he doesn't seem to have the same townie mindset in this game. His townie beliefs in the previous game and his actions in this game do not coincide.
You are Nappa, Vegeta's immediate! You have 1250 Base Power Level, at a maximum of 8000 power level.
As a Sayan, your power level doubles and your power level cap is removed during the night.
At night, you can chose to dodge the most powerful attack coming to you. You will not be able to power up the next day.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
You are Freiza, commander of Earth's invasion and deemed as the most powerful being in the universe. Every day, you will change your form in your battle, in order to wipe out earth's weaklings.
First Form
Base Power Level: 5000
Power Level Cap: 10000
Power/hour: 250
Second Form
Base Power Level: 10000
Power Level Cap: 17500
Power/hour: 500
Third Form
Base Power Level: 15000
Power Level Cap: 25000
Power/hour: 750
Final Form
Base Power Level: 20000
Power Level Cap: 40000
Power/hour: 1000
Weakened Final Form
Starts with 30000 Power
Power Level Cap decreases by 5000 every 24 hours.
Power/hour decreases by 250/hour every dawn
Every night, you can also use your Death Beam, crippling your opponent and preventing them from using abilities for one day and night.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
ghost suspected Bio, what he said on him before his death I found compelling. The reads he just provided look a lot like hunting for lazy/bad players, not hunting for scum.
So here is what we may have: 9 players left: 3 Scum 6 Town
- Vig shot or similar mechanic townie - Someone who targeted Fulla with an ability - Person #2 in mason group
It may be prudent for claims to be made at this point. Maybe only so if the ability that target Fulla can be shown to be a town ability.
The things we need to be cautious about is that there is no way to know if the ability is necessarily a town ability. What we would be left with would be 3 special claims, 3 town claims, and then whatever the mafia claim (town or special). Either way, it could be to towns advantage.
I suggest we discuss the merits of this before people actually flip.
ghost suspected Bio, what he said on him before his death I found compelling. The reads he just provided look a lot like hunting for lazy/bad players, not hunting for scum.
His filter in the NMM was only two pages, something I neglected to mention in my previous post about him. He has a past tendency to be relatively quiet as town. I don't see a lot in his filter that shows he is hunting scum, but I want to a)put him on the spot now for some reads and b)see if there is a claim on the night ability that hit him.
That said, Fulla, who do you want to kill? Put aside the night ability for a moment.
You are Dodoria, Frieza's second immediate! You have 4500 Base Power Level, at a maximum of 15000. On even-numbered days, during the day, you can charge energy and use your Kamehameha. To do so, instead of PMing the hosts, you must post with at least 5 minutes delay in between each line, the following: ##KAAAAAAAAA ##MEEEEEEEE ##HAAAAAAAAA ##MEEEEEEEE ##HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoever you are voting after the last line will die.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
Fulla, you'd best get some reads out there my man. I think I may have suspected you for the wrong reasons...your defense here is gonna be offense though.
So lets be clear: Sinensis - Town, via Maju's last post indicating he is Mason. Didn't explicitly point this out earlier since it was still night, but someone has since posted the post indicating it. Mattchew: Will be confirmed town after using ability, which we should use today. (although, some possibility he is scum and given an alt roleclaim with the same ability)
As I've stated, we also have a vig shot to take 1 person off this list, as well as whatever was used on Fulla (should it mean they are blue). This means we can potentially have a list of 4 possible scum.
Unless someone has a reason we should not claim, I suggest we claim, focus our scum on the remaining 4-5 in the next 24 hours, use Matt's ability, then pick a lynch target in the second 24 hours.
oh and here's something else on why I think your claim is BS
On July 27 2012 09:44 Mattchew wrote: You are Dodoria, Frieza's second immediate! You have 4500 Base Power Level, at a maximum of 15000. On even-numbered days, during the day, you can charge energy and use your Kamehameha. To do so, instead of PMing the hosts, you must post with at least 5 minutes delay in between each line, the following: ##KAAAAAAAAA ##MEEEEEEEE ##HAAAAAAAAA ##MEEEEEEEE ##HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whoever you are voting after the last line will die.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
you aren't voting anyone right now matt. I'd think if this was actually your role, you would know this.
You are Ginyu, captain of the Ginyu Squad! Since you are all part of the same team, you cannot kill yourselves. As such, your power is ignored when voting someone from the Ginyu Squad.
For each Ginyu Squad member voting the same person, 1000 power is added to the vote.
You have 4000 base power level, at a maximum of 16000. Every night, you can Role Swap. Target player switches roles with you, but you maintain your power level, power level cap and win conditions.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
...and role swapped Fulla last night? Didn't really want to have to claim this, but if Fulla is just not around and dies for it that would suck. Anyway yea, the role I got in return was town.
On July 27 2012 10:24 s0Lstice wrote: what if I told you I am..
You are Ginyu, captain of the Ginyu Squad! Since you are all part of the same team, you cannot kill yourselves. As such, your power is ignored when voting someone from the Ginyu Squad.
For each Ginyu Squad member voting the same person, 1000 power is added to the vote.
You have 4000 base power level, at a maximum of 16000. Every night, you can Role Swap. Target player switches roles with you, but you maintain your power level, power level cap and win conditions.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
...and role swapped Fulla last night? Didn't really want to have to claim this, but if Fulla is just not around and dies for it that would suck. Anyway yea, the role I got in return was town.
Ok so imma shoot one of michael/heist/hiro
the reason i wont shoot bio is because of the night kills.. one of them (or both) has to be scum killed, and they both push to the lynch of BioSC...
what was your original role s0l? and who do you think I should shoot of those 3?
I'll save iGrok some trouble lol. Please do exactly what I say. Don't screw up. My bad about the shot.
You are Vegeta, the Prince Sayan! You have 6000 Base Power Level, at a maximum of 20000 power level. You power up by 300 power per hour instead of the usual 250 per hour.
As a Sayan, your power level doubles and your power level cap is removed during the night.
Once in this game, you can use your Galick Gun. Your target will die if their power level is lower than yours.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
Matt- It would be incredibly stupid to dayshot someone in the first 3 hours of the 48 hour day.
I know I will be on a list of 5-6 potential targets, but to randomly pick one without going over data is retarded. I would like this list to be complete (ie, anyone else to claim, do so) before I hardcore examine the rest on the list. This will take some time, in part to wait for claims, and in part to give myself, and everyone else, time to examine the shortlist.
You are Vegeta, the Prince Sayan! You have 6000 Base Power Level, at a maximum of 20000 power level. You power up by 300 power per hour instead of the usual 100 per hour.
Every night, you can use your Galick Gun. Your target will die if their power level is lower than yours. Notice that you must rest a night before using this again.
As a Sayan, your power level doubles and your power level cap is removed during the night.
You only win when both Frieza and Goku are dead and you are alive by the end of the game. However, for all intents and purposes you are considered an Adversary.
Ooh nifty. I'd much prefer you kill Matt today heist. If he is goku like I think he is, he will have the highest stats, and should be the first scum to die. The kamehameha is wicked too.
Matts actions in the past 3 hours of a new day include dayshotting a town with zero discussion AFTER I SAID WE SHOULD DISCUSS.
We gained nothing from you dayshooting 100% on your own. You could have waited for claims, you could have waited for cases, but instead you choose the worst thing possible.
I am still busy (playing LoL), but I wanted to touch up on someone posting the idea that Matt's dayshot was a Goku.
Lore wise, 2 things: 1- what he had to type to cast the spell is Goku's signature spell. 2- It's possible that his target was Vegeta- we see that they are adversary's in Vegeta's tag. It is possible that Goku had something similar, or discovered him last night via other scum, or the ability targets Vegeta (I should watch the vids to see how he beats vegeta in their last big fight).
2 cents, I will be back later for some actual analysis.
First, this game is showing itself to have consistent lore. My character has an ability that he has in the shows. I assume that Mattchew's ability was intended to be an endgame tactic and that he didn't know it was unique to Goku. While the ability isn't FULLY unique to Goku (though it is certainly his signature), you can see a list of who uses it here: http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Kamehameha. It isn't listed on the fake name that he gave.
I'd urge all of you to read any ability you have and search the dbz wiki. Or search for the dead players as well.
Furthermore, his actions were clearly not pro-town. I basically asked him to wait until people had a time to pick a target for his daykill, after examination and analysis in the first 24 hours. Then we would take the results of the daykill and have more data to pick a lynch.
Instead, he did the thing that would allow the least amount of data to get gathered and analysed.
I firmly believe that he made the mistake of thinking this would prove him town without knowing actual lore. A mistake by him.
We are sitting at 4 town, 3 scum. I believe if we hit a town tonight it will be 3 town 3 scum going into night and gg.
Since no one else wants to play, I will.
Sinensis – Confirmed town/Mason via MajuGarzett's last post
Mattchew – Scum- antitown actions that used an ability that lore shows Goku to has. He is Goku.
Since I'm really certain that Mattchew is Goku, the actions of others immediately after his daykill reveal a lot.
First, S0Lstive immediately voted for him. I don't think scum would do that.
BioSC and Heist immediately voted for me. While HiroPro claimed I was on his scum read list, his role makes it clear that he didn't have any abilities that would grant him hard insight. More to the point, they completely ignore Mattchew's antitown action and target me hard.
It's possible that at-least one of them isn't scum. Heist claimed a role/ability that would mean he is not scum- but this ability can't be verified until the end of todays vote. /e Not possible, see below.
Fulla- I just researched to find who claimed an ability on him. The only claim that wasn't shot down was S0Lstice, who claimed a role swap. This would mean that S0Lstice (my firmest town read second to Sine) can confirm Fulla town. Actually, in light of this, we would have a full picture:
Town: Sinensis – mason via day 1 lynch flip s0Lstice – via actions v. Mattchew and night swap with Fulla Fulla – Town if S0Lstice is Michaelthe – The last one.
Scum: Mattchew, who is friggen Goku. BioSC and Heist – Immediately target me with no discussion of Mattchew
The last question is about me, since the rest of the town can follow all of the other town reasons except my own. The one scenario where I would be scum would be that Matt and me are both scum and we are attacking each other to create distance regardless of who dies.
But if this were true, a few things: - The other two scum immediately jump on me, when Matt would have been a better target due to F'ing up the lore. - I would not have let Matt use the ability today in the first place as it's obviously Goku to anyone who knows/googles lore.
Anyways, even if someone isn't convinced that my list is right, you need to Kill Matt tonight. He is the extremely firm scum read. Basically, I'm looking at you Sinensis. The other 3 won't change.
Would be nice if a mod could confirm Sinensis is still here. He has not posted except for the first few hours of this 48 hour period and has not yet voted.
Goku and their friends kept fighting from whithin Freiza's demoralized army. Freiza and Nappa were dead. Right as the day begun, Vegeta was found dead as well. Scouters went crazy when a surge of energy exploded somewhere. Someone was fighting, and the remaining attackers of Earth went straight to the place. When they arrived, all they found was Zarbon, dead.
The hopes for Earth were higher than ever. Will this be the end and the possibility of a safe Earth? We're counting on you, Goku!
You are Zarbon, Freiza's immediate! You have 3000 base power level, at a maximum of 12000 power level.
Once per game, you can use your Monster Form permanently. Once used, your base power level raises to 8000, but you only get 100 power per hour when voting someone.
You win when the last warriors of Earth are eliminated.
With that, the Defenders of Earth have defeated their foes! Congratulations to Earth.
Name Role Base Power P/Hour Power Cap HiroPiro Vegeta 6000 300 20000 ghost_403 Freiza 5000* 250* 10000* Mattchew Goku 9001** 300** 30001** Kenpachi Nappa 1250 250 8000 Fulla Raditz 1000 250 7000 Sinensis Burter 1500 250 10000 BioSC Piccolo 4000 250 16000 michaelthe Zarbon 3000*** 250*** 12000 MajuGarzett Jeice 1500 250 10000 heist Krillin 500 250 12000 s0Lstice Captain Ginyu 4000 250 16000
*Changed based on day. 5000/10000/15000/20000, 250/500/750/1000, 10000/17500/25000/40000 **Super Saiyan form was +3000 Base, 600/hr, no cap ***Zarbon could change at any time to 8000 base 100/hour
Honestly, everything that could go wrong for town N1 and D2 did. You lynched Jeice, which confirmed Sinensis, which was good. Scum shot Kenpachi (Nappa) with the team kill and Ghost_403 (Frieza) with Destructo Disk. Kenpachi didn't dodge (dodging means you can't power up the next day), so he died. Freiza roleblocked the Destructo Disk, but then HiroPro (Vegeta) shot Freiza anyways. Then Mattchew popped Super Saiyan and Kamehameha to kill HiroPro. Scum now is missing their two big-power roles. So, even with the scum team essentially claiming (which is the point of Kamehameha, its a town-claim for a kill), it was game over since Goku's Super Saiyan was up to 39601 power on his own. Even though BioSC's vote didn't count, with no Vegeta or Freiza to bolster scum votepower, the game was 95% over then. Now that its 3v3, going to be 2v3, its GG.
One question: Matt- did you really not know that you using that ability would make it clear you were Goku- or did you just think we couldnt stack the PL to kill one of you?
Damn kamehameha lol. I was feeling good about killing frieza, but then I just skipped to the last page and saw that and I was like oh shit. I wish I had been a part of town, instead of being like a survivor.
Game concept was really cool, but the town play was pretty bad. In hindsight, I should have aimed for scum instead of frieza after seeing how town was doing but I got a little greedy and wanted to kill frieza straight off since I didnt think I could get him lynched. And I didnt realize that scum win con might be eliminate all attackers until I died so I was still entertaining the possibility of killing frieza n1, goku n3, and then claiming and riding through.
Thanks for the game! I felt like we were a bit strong power wise, but then looking through the Town roles, there were some pretty unique powers there.
I feel like the members of the Ginyu squad could have claimed that (not any other special abilities, but just that they were in the squad) That would have forced 2 scum (me and heist) to either claim or to stay quiet, which could have been used against us. But like Igrok said, it was the lack of communication + a few people not showing up till late that hurt.
thanks for hosting iGrok, I really enjoyed the set-up. I'm not a huge fan of DBZ, but I know enough about it to have had a lot of fun with the roles and their unique powers.
Looking back, town basically lost with the day 1 mislynch. It's a little unfortunate that it was decided that early. DoE team definitely had a hand in that though, so it didn't happen by accident. With the night KP, and Hiro doing what he was supposed to do (fulfilling half his win condition), Matt was free to claim Goku and just end the game with the kamehameha to Hiro's face. Like iGrok said, the town lost basically all of their teeth at that point.
I am really, really disappointed with the town play this game. Angry in fact. We had zero town atmosphere, because nobody could be bothered to post. I'm left wondering why some people /in'd at all. The set-up was so awesome, but it was sold short because of apathy.
On July 29 2012 11:26 michaelthe wrote: One question: Matt- did you really not know that you using that ability would make it clear you were Goku- or did you just think we couldnt stack the PL to kill one of you?
I had no idea about the DBz lore but I also knew I was gonna have ~40k power voting someone which is like greater than all of town combined
Tbh I think my role was op in such a small game... I think it still woulda been close to op if you took any one of the powers away
GG guys. I laughed when i read that ghost roleblocked me from killing him. And then hiro just shot him anyways.
I also assumed mattchew knew DBZ lore. After he used the kamehameha, I was laughing so hard when he still tried to fake claim as Dodoria. It was an entertaining game at the very least.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YpvJt.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5ajcM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/dragonball/images/6/66/VegetaKillsZarbonMX.png)
![[image loading]](http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll144/Animefan8990/DBZ/dodoria3-1.png)
