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Newbie Mini Mafia XXI

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-10 14:08:40
July 10 2012 14:08 GMT
#36
the perfect one puts his record on the line.

/in
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 11 2012 01:43 GMT
#73
/in
i will be active
i will be perfect
i will win
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 13 2012 00:03 GMT
#147
i think the will be active rule should apply to coaches and observers as well.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 16 2012 15:42 GMT
#249
On July 16 2012 23:25 tube wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 20:49 calgar wrote:
On July 16 2012 10:26 tube wrote:
in a game this small where everyone said "i will be active" i dont think lurking is a good idea for anyone, esp mafia
I found this post to be rather odd. It doesn't seem like you're putting any time or thought into your posts - just what randomly comes to mind. You said lurking isn't a good idea but that's what you've managed to do so far. I feel the same way about your intro post.

IGMEOY

idk what igmeoy means but i just didnt do any analysis



It means i got me eye on you google is kind of usefull.


Although calgar's premise is wrong. I think a mafia member is more likely to put much more thought into their posts then a non mafia member. From my 1 game of experience in which i played more of a lurker role as a mafia member the other 2 members put a ton of thought and effort into their posts. Even as going as far as having the coach review their posts before posting them to see what they thought.

You are by far looking the more sucpicious right now. The accusation on tube is telling to me. After the heat on you it seems you like you know want to set up a policy of lynching lurker or people that do one liners. Instead of drving the attention on one person it appears to me you are trying to get us looking at a whole group in order to confuse the town

FOS Calgar

Also, i think there is a possibility yourharry post was an attempt to get attention away from calgar

smaller FOS on YourHarry


On July 16 2012 12:49 Hopeless1der wrote:

I don't care if you have a scummy meta, SCUMMY PLAY DOES NOT HELP TOWN! If I find your play scummy, I'm going to read you as scum and push for your lynch.


Our goal is to win............ I dont care if someone walks in with a t shirt with im scum plasterd on the front of it we lynch SCUM.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 17 2012 04:30 GMT
#370
On July 17 2012 12:38 Hopeless1der wrote:
Except for MYLO i agree that no-lynch is usually no good. Away from my computer right now but I should be able to find that statistic mislynch vs nolynch stuff tonight

If its as good as your explanation from Newbie Mini Mafia XIX please dont bring it up. All you will manage to do is confuse yourself and everybody else. No lynch will allow the mafia to spread their vote and hide and would probally make it harder for blues to make better plays. Leave the math out no lynch = bad leave it at that.

On July 17 2012 07:57 Obvious.660 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 07:45 JingleHell wrote:
Hold up, Obvious. Going from


On July 17 2012 07:32 Obvious.660 wrote:
On July 17 2012 07:30 tube wrote:
On July 17 2012 07:12 calgar wrote:
On July 17 2012 07:05 tube wrote:
yeah i dont see the need to put the effort into quoting each argument and pointing exactly where somebody is trying to make an accusation out of thin air when if people just looked at them they would realize there is statistically an 8/11 chance that whoever they're accusing is town because their argument was empty to begin with, in that people just pick out innocuous tidbits of a post and try to make it seem like something a mafia would say (sometimes even extrapolating to create an even less believable post, you being the repeat offender of this one)

On July 17 2012 06:48 calgar wrote:
On July 17 2012 06:45 tube wrote:
On July 17 2012 06:41 Hapahauli wrote:
EBWOP: Oh shucks, calgar beat me to it.

didnt i beat both of you to it

well looks like mufaa is also convinced that my active lurking is a scumtell
despite the fact that i already said i dont suspect anyone
and again i dont see a reason to bandwagon me for not being careful with accusations

Our advice seems to be falling on deaf ears, here. Why don't you read my summary of iamperfection again, I think it was very suspicious and poorly written post on his part (and his only one, to boot).

? i was wrong in my response to evulrabbitz or what is this about?
No, you were right. I was just suggesting that since you had no suspicions you could see what you thought about mine. As a way to try and become a more active participant. Also, your posts are slightly difficult to understand because of awkward formatting. Could you try using sentences and punctuation?


Yeah I agree his argument had bad logic but again I think he's just making accusations out of nothing, like this segment for example:
You are by far looking the more sucpicious right now. The accusation on tube is telling to me. After the heat on you it seems you like you know want to set up a policy of lynching lurker or people that do one liners. Instead of drving the attention on one person it appears to me you are trying to get us looking at a whole group in order to confuse the town

I don't necessarily read such an argument as a scumtell because it could also just as easily be his candid attempt at scumhunting. Fact of the matter is, there's virtually no way to tell for something like this.

Also, if you think putting words into people's mouths is suspicious, take a look at JingleHell's early posts against me that sparked the entire bandwagon. He does it multiple times by saying that I basically said so and so and therefore was clearly playing against town.

Woah! It's like a completely different person sat down at your computer and started typing. WELCOME TO THE GAME, TUBE!


to
I notice you didn't ask my why I changed my vote, you just jumped me for doing some band-wagoning

On July 17 2012 07:39 Obvious.660 wrote:
##Vote tube
Reason: out of character posting. Coached response.


is a bit bizarre.

Frankly, that sounds more like scum suddenly seeing a chance for a bandwagon on someone they didn't lead the case against.

##Unvote
##Vote Obvious.660


Remember this?

Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 02:21 Obvious.660 wrote:
Greetings. Had a good sleep and I feel a bit refreshed and quite a bit like swimming in coffee. Breakfast-type things are happening but the hunt must continue.

FOS YourHarry

I guess it was an easy way to make myself a convenient target by posting something low content early in the first day before I would be able to contribute anything for another 12 hours or so. Regardless, choosing the last name you see for your vote when others have already provided much more to go on seems scummy to me when I wouldn't even be around to defend myself.

YourHarry's self analysis might be indicative that mafia is going with some kind of sacrificial lamb ploy to get our trust. If that's the case, I'll have to follow it up with

smaller, more wrinkly and arthritic FOS on iamperfection

as their entire strategy may have been hinted right in front of us. YourHarry gets to be the sacrificial lamb and anyone on his case early is riding the gravy train for day 1 as they will be safe from lynch tonight.

On July 17 2012 00:42 iamperfection wrote:
Also, i think there is a possibility yourharry post was an attempt to get attention away from calgar


Of course there's a third scumbucket somewhere around here that hasn't been factored in my theory, for which I will be searching on top of building my current case against these two.


Nothing has changed. He's definitely a third mafia candidate (shitty posting history plus change in character to what looks like copy-pasted text from someone else) and it wraps up my theory quite nicely. The jig is up on the sacrificial lamb-ing and their strategy has been adjusted. His last couple of posts were completely out of character. Capitalization? Complete sentences? Total 180 and I don't think that a new-found passion for the game is going to change whether or not you type like shit.

If I'm right on this vote, it will mean my read was good (unless I change my stance on the other two I've listed, which is not out of the question by any means) and I can have more faith in my other suspicions. If not, well, it takes a town to vote.

~6 Hours since the last post from YourHarry
Still only one post from iamperfection.


The perfect one would never sacrifice a mafia member. Also this is a mini mafia it would be very risky to throw a mafia member out.

Also i dont believe i said anything about a sacrifical lamb strategy i said yourharry was trying to get heat of calgar by throwing a vote out there to take off heat from calgar. I dont know where you came up with this grand conspiracy of a sacrfical lamb from my post.

And two can play at this game calgar i still got my eye on you.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 17 2012 13:36 GMT
#381
On July 17 2012 20:06 Obvious.660 wrote:
There aren't enough fingers to go around at this point. I will share a few thoughts before I sleep, as I may not make it back in time for any further analysis. Seriously, the town play needs to improve overall or we're going to mislynch tonight. It's awful that I am reading more scum than town.

> tube still has my vote. Don't just look at the filter, it's better to read the actual thread when looking at him. Very few quotes to address the accusations against him in his responses will make analysis of tube troublesome without going through unfiltered.

> YourHarry: Highly, highly suspicious of this one. Not because he voted for me, but because of HOW IT WAS DONE.

> JingleHell is suspicious to me for his constant attacks on what words are chosen: "Wait and see" -- "Under the bus" conversations, where intent was pretty clear and he chose to always take it in the most negative context possible. He's railed on Calgar and me fairly hard.

> Hopeless1der makes a safe vote against the lurking Fulla. Wanted to know about no-lynch for whatever reason. Leaning scum here.

> Fulla seems to be lurking hard. Brings up a point of inquiry for some irrelevant statistic and probably goes to sleep.

> iamperfection read my post but clearly didn't follow the conversation in entirety. Points a few fingers, nothing overly suspicious. I would call the posting history semi-engaging but barely active. Leaning scum here.

> Calgar: My gut tells me town.

> Mufaa: Two posts. One starts analysis with the promise of more. The extra analysis is nowhere to be found. However, his line of reasoning regarding JingleHell seems to be spot on so far today.

> drwiggl3s: No scummy feelings here, yet.

> Evulrabbitz: Lurky, but lives in Sweden. 7 hours ahead of EST, if my just-before-sleep math is any good. I'm probably off by an hour. Look for something from Evul in the very near future, well before vote time.

> Hapahauli: Should be weighing in today. I have no strong feelings either way about his contributed play.

If you get nothing else out of this, town members need to take a good look at their individual contributions and ask themselves if they've done everything they can today to work towards a good day one lynch.

Isnt posting meaningless lists about every one in the game a way that mafia try to do to buy town cred. By being non commital you are trying to keep you options open so nothing can be used against you later. In fact the first guide that is posted in this thread states that what you just did is something scum do to try and hide. Why would a townie try and do something like that. I would say you are reading a diffrent section of the guide.

## Vote Obvious.660

On July 17 2012 20:39 calgar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 13:30 iamperfection wrote:
And two can play at this game calgar i still got my eye on you.
You've managed to vaguely reply to my post, yet you've addressed none of the content.

You've lurked and been generally unproductive.
You come in and point two fingers immediately but fail to later support your case.
You get your case from another person and add no thought to it.
You use poor logic and disregard my direct questions to you.

##Vote iamperfection

I remove my FOS calgar
I dont think a scum player would just outright vote for me after i acussed them.


And if anyone elses wants to come after the perfect one i say bring it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 01:32 GMT
#537
Some food for thought while we enter the terrors that are the night. Why would i knowingly put myself under so much heat. When i Voted for obvious their was one exactly one vote for him. If i was mafia i could posted lip service comments to try and hid but i diddnt i put a claim out there and i think its going to lead to some information. The bandwagon on obvious happened after me.


The mafia have the information advantage and if they wanted to risk it they could have not voted for obvious at all if they so desired. I will be able to work on this tommorow morning and i will post before the deadline what i think happened.


http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 13:50 GMT
#569
There have been posts that havemade me greatly question the motivation of some of the players.
On July 18 2012 11:16 JingleHell wrote:
As it is, if he doesn't get NKed, we have almost 3 full days before deadline to try and force him to defend himself.

If, by then, he hasn't, he deserves what he gets. ?


What is your goal jingle? Do you want to win or do you want to be just justfied in your reasoning for when you get lynches. What purpose does this comment make? Well if perfection flips town he deserved it so dont look at me it was his fault not mine. Our goal is to win not to look good in our reasoning. It dosent matter if your reasoning is solid it has to be right.

On July 16 2012 12:49 Hopeless1der wrote:
I don't care if you have a scummy meta, SCUMMY PLAY DOES NOT HELP TOWN! If I find your play scummy, I'm going to read you as scum and push for your lynch.


I brought this up before but its worth revisiting. The mafia know what they and their other members are doing. When you set up these policies that say look thig guy is lurking thats scummy so he must be scum you give the mafia the grounds to rig the game. Let kill this guy because hes lurking is exactly what they want. Look past the obvious of the obvious killing what did i gain from it which would improve my scum position. There seems to be a lot less heat on people who were will nilly with their votes than their is on me who made a read and stuck with it.

Lets take it further. When i was scum in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=347856&user=149300 as a mafia member i felt more pressure to post so what came out was mostly fluff and and just trying to be confusing by twisting peoples logic. Our strategy for that game was that i would basically lurk while the other two would lead the discussion and the charge. In my posts i was wishy washy and non commital to make the apperance of just a bad newbie. In this game i took a definite stand and have not been wishy washy i made clear my fos and was clear on why i voted and didnt backtrack. If i knew obvious was not town why would i put myself in such a precarious position i could have just let others lead the charge and in fact i was the first person to call out obvious when i made that stupid list.

Now if weather or not you believe me where do we stand who do we go after if im town. These are some of th posts that stuck out to me.
On July 18 2012 06:13 Fulla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 20:06 Obvious.660 wrote:
There aren't enough fingers to go around at this point. I will share a few thoughts before I sleep, as I may not make it back in time for any further analysis. Seriously, the town play needs to improve overall or we're going to mislynch tonight. It's awful that I am reading more scum than town.

> tube still has my vote. Don't just look at the filter, it's better to read the actual thread when looking at him. Very few quotes to address the accusations against him in his responses will make analysis of tube troublesome without going through unfiltered.

> YourHarry: Highly, highly suspicious of this one. Not because he voted for me, but because of HOW IT WAS DONE.

> JingleHell is suspicious to me for his constant attacks on what words are chosen: "Wait and see" -- "Under the bus" conversations, where intent was pretty clear and he chose to always take it in the most negative context possible. He's railed on Calgar and me fairly hard.

> Hopeless1der makes a safe vote against the lurking Fulla. Wanted to know about no-lynch for whatever reason. Leaning scum here.

> Fulla seems to be lurking hard. Brings up a point of inquiry for some irrelevant statistic and probably goes to sleep.

> iamperfection read my post but clearly didn't follow the conversation in entirety. Points a few fingers, nothing overly suspicious. I would call the posting history semi-engaging but barely active. Leaning scum here.

> Calgar: My gut tells me town.

> Mufaa: Two posts. One starts analysis with the promise of more. The extra analysis is nowhere to be found. However, his line of reasoning regarding JingleHell seems to be spot on so far today.

> drwiggl3s: No scummy feelings here, yet.

> Evulrabbitz: Lurky, but lives in Sweden. 7 hours ahead of EST, if my just-before-sleep math is any good. I'm probably off by an hour. Look for something from Evul in the very near future, well before vote time.

> Hapahauli: Should be weighing in today. I have no strong feelings either way about his contributed play.

If you get nothing else out of this, town members need to take a good look at their individual contributions and ask themselves if they've done everything they can today to work towards a good day one lynch.


The first thing that springs to mind is IF this is the obvious thing scum do, why would he post this?

Why do people say this a useless worthless post? He gives clear reasonable arguments on each person. They are thought out and logical.

yet:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 22:36 iamperfection wrote:
Isnt posting meaningless lists about every one in the game a way that mafia try to do to buy town cred. By being non commital you are trying to keep you options open so nothing can be used against you later. In fact the first guide that is posted in this thread states that what you just did is something scum do to try and hide. Why would a townie try and do something like that. I would say you are reading a diffrent section of the guide.

## Vote Obvious.660


I thought this was pretty committed?
According to him: YourHarry, Hopeless1der and iamperfection are the 3 scum.

Word like leaning scum or my gut tells me is not being commital. This post appears to me to be a way in order to buy town cred because you are a mafia member and know that obvious is going to flip town so you try to come across as oh i dont know this isnt my idead and then vote for him anyways.

On July 18 2012 07:10 Fulla wrote:
Where the hell is obvious? Sigh.. It seems it's all down to me, I hate it when this happens.

Let obvious be lynched or vote tube and force a no lynch.

Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 06:16 JingleHell wrote:
Fulla, when he made that post, he was leaving his vote on tube, and also called me suspicious. Does that make us the fourth and fifth scum in that list of three you're accrediting to him?



Good point, I overlooked that.

Let's see what he flips then.

## Vote Obvious.660

And this once again this isnt my idead you guys came up with the point not me so non commital becasue he dosent want the obvious lynch to come back on him.


I also fully believe that at least one mafia member is probally talking a lot. When mafia have a good voice in town they can help steer the talk in a way that benfits them. My goal for the rest of the day is to find the mafia member that is being very active and talking a lot. If i find something i will post before the deadline.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 14:59 GMT
#574
On July 18 2012 23:39 Hapahauli wrote:
@iamperfection, you have a lot of suspicion on you right now. I suggest defending yourself and addressing people's concerns instead of chainsaw defending yourself by pointing out 3 different people (Fulla, Jingle, and a mystery 3rd "active mafia").

Secondly, what's the point of your experience as mafia in a past game? Its useless to speculate what mafia will do based on completely seperate player pools. Moreover, you cast suspicion on Jingle (who me and Calgar have strong townie reads on), and suggest that you believe there's an active mafia based on the events of completely different players!!!

Lastly, what's with your language? You're suspicious of two players, and you don't even cast an FOS or take any strong stances. What are you afraid of - if you're suspicious, make it clear instead of saying something wishy-washy like "There have been posts that havemade me greatly question the motivation of some of the players."

FOS iamperfection

So what are you suggesting that there isnt an active mafia member that anyone that does some lurking can and is mafia. Guess what a mafia member wants to appears as a townie at all costs from the early on the who population of the thread have basically stated that lurking is bad it is only natural to think that there is a mafia member that is active.

Also dont twist my words i never said that i was supicious of jingle and hopeless i said i question on what they were trying to accomplish. I feel like their goal was to appear to the mafia community that "im a good player my logic will be sound if i lynch some one and they are a townie it must be their fault for being a bad townie".

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 15:02 GMT
#575
On July 18 2012 23:39 Hapahauli wrote:
@iamperfection, you have a lot of suspicion on you right now. I suggest defending yourself and addressing people's concerns instead of chainsaw defending yourself by pointing out 3 different people (Fulla, Jingle, and a mystery 3rd "active mafia").

Secondly, what's the point of your experience as mafia in a past game? Its useless to speculate what mafia will do based on completely seperate player pools. Moreover, you cast suspicion on Jingle (who me and Calgar have strong townie reads on), and suggest that you believe there's an active mafia based on the events of completely different players!!!

Lastly, what's with your language? You're suspicious of two players, and you don't even cast an FOS or take any strong stances. What are you afraid of - if you're suspicious, make it clear instead of saying something wishy-washy like "There have been posts that havemade me greatly question the motivation of some of the players."

FOS iamperfection

Also i thik it was pretty clear that fulla was my main target why would you make such a big deal about nothing.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 15:02 GMT
#576
ebwop *think
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 15:08 GMT
#580
On July 19 2012 00:04 JingleHell wrote:
I've actually been told in postgame that GGing someone who gets themselves mislynched looks like post-lynch guilt, and potentially scummy, as getting mislynched is frequently a sign of anything BUT a GG.

So yes, if a Townie gets themselves killed, I do think it's their own fault. This is not scummy, this is a fact.

i dont understand the first line? GGing talking about saying good game to someone after they get killed?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 19:15 GMT
#592
On July 19 2012 03:27 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh forgot to clarify, I'm very suspicious of iamperfection's recent posts, and the only sentiment in his favor seems to be Jingle's "this is too easy" argument.

If you could elaborate on what was wrong with my recent posts. Explain to me how my position on obvious and my posting style served to help me in anyway.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 19:32 GMT
#595
On July 19 2012 04:19 Hapahauli wrote:
I replied to your previous post here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398&currentpage=29#577

Also, I haven't commented at all on your vote on Obvious.660. It could be seen as a bandwagon, but I don't find it suspicious in itself. As far as your posting goes, I suggest looking at the filters of Calgar and Mufaa, who've pointed suspicion at you.

So you want me to throw out fingers of suspicon that really would serve no purpose other than to be used against me later. What purpose would fos serve the game will change in a few hours and as town the very little information we get come from the result of the night actions. Why be pigenholed now during the night. Its the same reason calgar is upset that jinglehell is trying to make a final be all decesion on who vig should kill.

Also you didnt answer the question. my position on obvious was by far the worse i can do nothing to change on what i posted on day 1. Why wouldnt i just make a throwaway vote and semi bandwagon later on sombody else with less votes if i was a lurking mafia?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 19:50 GMT
#599
On July 19 2012 04:44 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 04:32 iamperfection wrote:
On July 19 2012 04:19 Hapahauli wrote:
I replied to your previous post here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398&currentpage=29#577

Also, I haven't commented at all on your vote on Obvious.660. It could be seen as a bandwagon, but I don't find it suspicious in itself. As far as your posting goes, I suggest looking at the filters of Calgar and Mufaa, who've pointed suspicion at you.

So you want me to throw out fingers of suspicon that really would serve no purpose other than to be used against me later. What purpose would fos serve the game will change in a few hours and as town the very little information we get come from the result of the night actions. Why be pigenholed now during the night. Its the same reason calgar is upset that jinglehell is trying to make a final be all decesion on who vig should kill.

Also you didnt answer the question. my position on obvious was by far the worse i can do nothing to change on what i posted on day 1. Why wouldnt i just make a throwaway vote and semi bandwagon later on sombody else with less votes if i was a lurking mafia?


I'm assuming the "throw out FOS" bit is in regards to my linked reply. I'm saying to take a strong stance against someone. You're wishy-washy and simply throw around suspicion without committing anywhere. This is a mafia-trait.

TBH, I don't even understand your question. Its not like you voted for Obvious - you voted for him when his fate was still in question. How does your vote for Obvious vindicate you?

Because your thinking it in too simple of terms. If im mafia i know that obvious is town i wasent wishy washy at when i voted for obvious so according to your own logic my action at that time was more likely town. Take it further. When obvious is killed its natural to look at who caused the votes to happen how did it benfit me going later into the game how is it going to help the mafia win. Sure i could get the mis lynch on day one but im not set up in benfitual way at all on day 2. Ive been saying all along the goal is to win not looking good with logic or survivng lynches the goal is to make the town win. If im mafia my position makes no sense.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 18 2012 19:51 GMT
#601
ill be back later tonight
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 19 2012 02:06 GMT
#646
On July 19 2012 10:46 JingleHell wrote:
Calgar got my attention when he screamed for a night hit on Perfection. Perfection, there's not much new to say on, so I figured address the one who's been skating by but seeming a bit off.

I cant change what happened on the first day. Did i lurk yes but we can only go ahead with the situation that is at hand. I was thinking a lot about what i was going to do on this day and i cam fully prepared to lead a charge against someone because i believed their would be a lot of pressure on me and if i were to go down i was going to try and get as much info as possible for the town. Im a little taken aback by your vs jingle argument as i wasent expecting it to happen.

So im gonna ask you what are your thoughts on my situation on day 1. No one has yet to give me a good answer on this. In what way did i benefit from the kill in my regards if im a scum palyer? You have semi defended me but i want your thoughts on that situation in itself not your thoughts on me as a player just that situation. Calgar has come and attacked me saying that my defense is not strong

On July 19 2012 07:30 calgar wrote:

about iamperfection: The problem is that, as far as I’m concerned, we’re already at the end of the road. He’s either mafia or a bad townie. Watching him post more bad reads, contradictions, and poor logic (which he continues to do) isn’t going to change any of that. He’s already crazy suspicious, what is more dirt on him going to do? It’s still back to the basic problem of whether or not he’s just a bad town. An invest on him is risky because he is a likely candidate for the role change cloak since so much attention is targeted at him. I've got to laugh and shake my head at "ill be back later tonight" that he said. Did he consider the chance of being killed? So sure that he won't be? Probably right, since he's so anti-town. Even if he was town they wouldn't touch him. His haphazard play would be poor for both town and mafia so it's a tough call.



To calgar i ask you the same you have said my defense is not strong i want specifically what about my situation on day 1 make you think im scum.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 19 2012 02:42 GMT
#650
So then why would calgar go so strong against me. Are we both mafia in some sort of gambit? That would seem highly risky to me. Unless your case against cagar is incorrect and i am the scum.

I think ive made enough posts defending myself on what happened on day one you continue to hurl insults at everyone or try to actually help the town instead of thinking your helping the town. I dont get whats so difficult about my point. no one has stated a reason that if im a scum player why would i put myself in that day 1 situation. What would be my strategy going forward. I cant think of any.

So all im guilty of is lurking on day one.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 19 2012 02:50 GMT
#651
ill be back bright and early tommorow .
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 19 2012 16:24 GMT
#702
Jingles claim looks legitamate to me. I'm not buying any crap that jingle should be dead because he bread crumbed. It would be so risky for jingle to lie and hell this is newbie mafia i didnt spot the bread crumb and im sure a lot of players didnt spot it.

On July 19 2012 07:30 calgar wrote:

about iamperfection: The problem is that, as far as I’m concerned, we’re already at the end of the road. He’s either mafia or a bad townie. Watching him post more bad reads, contradictions, and poor logic (which he continues to do) isn’t going to change any of that. He’s already crazy suspicious, what is more dirt on him going to do? It’s still back to the basic problem of whether or not he’s just a bad town. An invest on him is risky because he is a likely candidate for the role change cloak since so much attention is targeted at him. I've got to laugh and shake my head at "ill be back later tonight" that he said. Did he consider the chance of being killed? So sure that he won't be? Probably right, since he's so anti-town. Even if he was town they wouldn't touch him. His haphazard play would be poor for both town and mafia so it's a tough call.



I think the plan going forward was to have me killed by vig and since im still alive go after me for the mis lynch. I think the would use the excuse that "im a bad investment" would be the rallying call when i flip town.

On July 18 2012 11:16 JingleHell wrote:
EBWOP: To be more clear, I'm not a vigi, but the way I see that, Perfection is too easy of a target. If I was a scum, Iamperfection (If we play hypothetical that he's a townie) would be easy to convince a vigi to shoot. Far too easy. We know his activity sucks. As it is, if he doesn't get NKed, we have almost 3 full days before deadline to try and force him to defend himself.

If, by then, he hasn't, he deserves what he gets. But a vigi shot, that's easy to sell, could be a disaster if he's just inactive.

I'm all for everyone stacking votes on him come daytime, at least until he starts talking.

Calgar, would you feel comfortable suggesting a vigi shot on him if we came to a consensus that if it flipped him town, you were next in line for a lynch?

I think they would use jingles own comments against him. Stating that i was a bad investment and that i deserved what i got through bad play. If i got killed by vig or then was the target of the mis lynch he would have been able to play it off easily

I think the mafia has been caught off guard by jingles claim and have resorted to logical fallicies in order to defend each other between hapa and calgar. I havent seen any suggestion by hapa and calgar in the last few pages of who we should be actively going for instead or if they have any new reads to go on they simply have resorted to attacking jingles defense. If calgar thinks im scum has he simply forgot that he should be scum hunting. If im this blatant scum read why hasent he tried to push with some more evidence. Im not buying his defense.
## vote calgar

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iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 19 2012 16:27 GMT
#703
On July 20 2012 01:10 YourHarry wrote:
Hapha is town.

Dont waste post 300 thats an important one
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 02:46 GMT
#774
Alright i know you guys think im scummy and i do this in order to help you. My vote of calgar was that of self preservation i read jingles view as correct at the time and i thought their would be split between jingle and calgar. I voted for calgar because i read jingle as fully town once he revealed his bread crumb. Now that jingle is basically mod confirmed i will do what i can to help the town even though i think anything i will say will be basically read as scummy.

##Vote Yourharry

Ill be back tommorow morning after both scum and town tear me a new one but ill do what i can.

On July 19 2012 05:32 YourHarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 19 2012 04:50 iamperfection wrote:
On July 19 2012 04:44 Hapahauli wrote:
On July 19 2012 04:32 iamperfection wrote:
On July 19 2012 04:19 Hapahauli wrote:
I replied to your previous post here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398&currentpage=29#577

Also, I haven't commented at all on your vote on Obvious.660. It could be seen as a bandwagon, but I don't find it suspicious in itself. As far as your posting goes, I suggest looking at the filters of Calgar and Mufaa, who've pointed suspicion at you.

So you want me to throw out fingers of suspicon that really would serve no purpose other than to be used against me later. What purpose would fos serve the game will change in a few hours and as town the very little information we get come from the result of the night actions. Why be pigenholed now during the night. Its the same reason calgar is upset that jinglehell is trying to make a final be all decesion on who vig should kill.

Also you didnt answer the question. my position on obvious was by far the worse i can do nothing to change on what i posted on day 1. Why wouldnt i just make a throwaway vote and semi bandwagon later on sombody else with less votes if i was a lurking mafia?


I'm assuming the "throw out FOS" bit is in regards to my linked reply. I'm saying to take a strong stance against someone. You're wishy-washy and simply throw around suspicion without committing anywhere. This is a mafia-trait.

TBH, I don't even understand your question. Its not like you voted for Obvious - you voted for him when his fate was still in question. How does your vote for Obvious vindicate you?

Because your thinking it in too simple of terms. If im mafia i know that obvious is town i wasent wishy washy at when i voted for obvious so according to your own logic my action at that time was more likely town. Take it further. When obvious is killed its natural to look at who caused the votes to happen how did it benfit me going later into the game how is it going to help the mafia win. Sure i could get the mis lynch on day one but im not set up in benfitual way at all on day 2. Ive been saying all along the goal is to win not looking good with logic or survivng lynches the goal is to make the town win. If im mafia my position makes no sense.


Imagine a player who was wishy-wash about a player and then voted him, who then flipped town. The player would be very suspicious (LOL, this is actually exactly how I acted on D1, but I have an excuse ) ..So the other side of the coin is that, scums would act decisive and firm in their opinion - because typically that's how townies act and they want to fit in.

Also, you are saying everyone who didn't act wishy washy when they voted Obvious.660 is town? I think that's pretty much everyone except me.

On July 18 2012 10:38 YourHarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2012 10:32 iamperfection wrote:
Some food for thought while we enter the terrors that are the night. Why would i knowingly put myself under so much heat. When i Voted for obvious their was one exactly one vote for him. If i was mafia i could posted lip service comments to try and hid but i diddnt i put a claim out there and i think its going to lead to some information. The bandwagon on obvious happened after me.


The mafia have the information advantage and if they wanted to risk it they could have not voted for obvious at all if they so desired. I will be able to work on this tommorow morning and i will post before the deadline what i think happened.




You can say this for everyone who have voted for Obvious.660.

From scum's perspective, it is a choice between not wanting to look scummy by avoiding to contribute to a mislynch a player they know is town vs. putting their voting power in effect in order to favor a mislynch over a scum lynch.


He has try to discount my logic several times and continue to keep me a candidate for a mis lynch. I know it can be stated that this is pure wifom and we could just be trying to spread confusion but here it is decide for yourselves.

I agree with the cases and accept the attack that i will probally recieve for latching on. I know my self preservation comment will be attacked but in all honesty thats what im doing.

I will be back in the morning and ill try to answer any questions that you may have for me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 02:47 GMT
#775
[g] Time and vote count if you would be so kind [/g]

good night all
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 02:48 GMT
#776
ebwop for fail Time and vote count if you would be so kind
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 02:49 GMT
#778
it should be g instead of green imo
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 02:49 GMT
#779
On July 20 2012 11:48 JingleHell wrote:
The tag you wanted is
[green][b] Insert Text Here [/b][/green]

thanks i got it
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 16:18 GMT
#829
i might regret this but

The one thing i dont like about it is that he tries to cast suspicion on you. In my view looking at it you are basically mod confirmed townie in my view now. The only other possibilty is their would have to be a roleblocker on the scum team. However, combined with your ability to play the role of aggresive townie and the actual circumstance of the bread crumb i highly doubt your lying and combined with probulous basically confirming that their is a role block role i think its safe to assume your town.

What i dont like about is why would the scum team continue to rally against you. It seems kind of silly to me to try and waste effort to try and cast doubt on you. Maybe im giving the scum team to much credit but in my view thier efforts are better spent else where.

So basically harrys accusation are so dumb in my view that he might be town because the scum team as whole i would think would recognize it would be a lost cause to go against you.
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iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 18:35 GMT
#861
arent we running out of time where you at Muffa? Dont be afraid of jingle he dosent bite that hard.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 19:44 GMT
#878
Jingle do you think we have the amount of time to pull this out. there are a lot of lurkers out there and they might not get back in time.

@calgar i hope you come to see me diffrently and i dont know who this changes your view but anyways

## unvote

## vote drwiggl3s
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iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 19:48 GMT
#884
what happens when the votes shift like that in regard to a tie though is yourharry still considered to have been at 3 first if it goes back to 3?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 20 2012 20:42 GMT
#902
On July 21 2012 04:54 calgar wrote:
Ok, I’ll be switching my vote to drwiggl3s here.

I also want to propose a temporary solution to iamperfection. I may have been reading his actions on the wrong side of the coin. I’ve said in my previous posts that it boiled down to whether he was mafia or confused townie. At the time we didn’t have anything better to go off of so I considered it to be our best vote in order to maximize the % of killing mafia. What he’s said recently in his vote on YourHarry made me change my mind. His defense of YourHarry shows his reluctance to put the vote there, so he shouldn’t have any trouble changing to match with jingle again.

Anyways, what made me doubt my strong stance previously has a lot to do with the flurry of posting last night and today. YourHarry seems to have been pressured into making several revealing plays. Drwiggl3s has positioned himself to look good after the lynch. We can evaluate these more closely, soon. When iamperfection said that his best town read was jingle I understood about him following jingle’s vote. I’ve been sort of doing the same with hapa. Now, to ‘prove’ his townie-ness, let’s get him to agree to vote with jingle every vote. He says he believes jingle is essentially 100% town so he’s going to follow him. As long as he does so, then we have his vote with the town side no matter what his role is. He shouldn’t have any problem agreeing to this since he has said he wants to follow jingle’s vote. We can use this as a temporary stall to eliminate him from our suspects pool and try to root out member #2 after drwiggl3s. As long as he is voting with us, he is a temporary ally.

##Unvote
##Vote drwiggl3s


I cant agree with that. That would be the same thing as saying jingle cant be wrong. I agree with his current view but i will stand up and say something if i think its wrong. Even though you may have seen my previous posts as scummy i will try to contiue to posts reads and contribute to disccussion if i feel like i can help. Sure have i been attacked a couple time and not answerd question as well as i would yes. Im still going to play the game.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 21 2012 01:12 GMT
#963
On July 21 2012 09:53 tube wrote:
i voted perfection because i didn't see why he was cleared of suspicion

Do you still think that im the best choice now?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 21 2012 17:09 GMT
#1001
On July 22 2012 01:56 tube wrote:
Relative periods of inactivity are not scumtells, they're quite frankly just times when someone doesn't feel like playing. A bandwagon on me doesn't tell the town anything because it was so easy for mafia to make me an attractive lynch, despite that the only thing I can be indicted for is inactivity.

I can't speak for hopeless or fulla but you guys are going to find some difficulty making sense of things when I flip town.
Also, my vote on perfection reflects my confusion as to why the suspicion on him is suddenly cleared. Wiggles was undoubtedly going to be the d2 lynch anyway.





One of the prime resaons i became suspicious in first place was my lurking on the first day. You now use that in your defense of yourself but then vote for me. That dosent make sense and if you are town seems like a careless use of your vote. Regardless what are your thoughts now do still think im the prime suspect and if not what are your thoughts going forward.

and
fos tube
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iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 21 2012 17:38 GMT
#1005
On July 22 2012 02:20 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2012 23:29 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Hopeless1der - Good analysis, I have some commentary below regarding some of your conclusions. Agree on Jingle/YourHarry being guarenteed townies, however, I severely disagree with you on Tube.

On July 21 2012 13:13 Hopeless1der wrote:
--SNIP--

Day 1, wiggles was pushing tube as his scum read. I sincerely doubt he would have tried to bus that early in the game. This is a much weaker conclusion, but the case on tube seemed like a legitimate attempt to get him lynched.
I'm not 100% convinced that tube is town, but he's now going to be one of the last players I consider as a potential scum.
--SNIP--


While wiggles did build a case on Tube, its important to note the timing and situation in which he did so.

Wiggles votes for Tube when the bandwagon train is firmly on Obvious.660 (3 votes for obvious, vs 1 vote for a bunch of other people)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398&currentpage=22#423

They then get into an "argument" when Obvious.660 is set to lynch. After the night, drwiggl3s never mentions Tube again, even after grilling him for so long. This points to the "argument" being staged in a safe situation for both mafia.

But the most incriminating evidence against Tube is his D2 vote and his complete lack of posting on D2. Tube was willing to post plently on N1, then immediately got quiet when suspicion was flying around Calgar and YourHarry. Furthermore, he comes in right when Jingle points out drwiggl3s scumslip and bandwagon votes iamperfection.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398&currentpage=44#870 <--- the vote, be sure to read the context around it


Hapa, you make a good point about wiggles dropping the case after day1. However, I disagree with your point about the specific timing of wiggles' vote. I dont think it was 'firmly' set on Obvious. The votecount following wiggles' vote is:

+ Show Spoiler +
On July 18 2012 05:43 Acrofales wrote:
V V V V VOTE COUNT!!!



Obvious.660 (4): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz

Tube (3): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s

YourHarry (2): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgar

Fulla (1): Hopeless1der

iamperfection (1): calgar, Mufaa

JingleHell (0): YourHarry

Not yet voted: Fulla

Obvious.660 set to be lynched

You have about 2 1/4 hours till the deadline. Please use the correct format for voting, including ##s and unvotes when needed. Wrong votes will not be found by cntrl-f

+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +

On July 18 2012 01:56 Acrofales wrote:
V V V V VOTE COUNT!!!



Obvious.660 (3): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube

Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660

Fulla (1): Hopeless1der

iamperfection (1): calgar

YourHarry (1): JingleHell, Hapahauli

Not yet voted: Fulla, Mufaa, drwiggl3s, YourHarry, Evulrabbitz

You have about 6 hours till the deadline.

+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +
On July 17 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote:
Vote Count


Obvious.660 (2): YourHarry, JingleHell

Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660

YourHarry (0): JingleHell

You have about 17 hours till the deadline.







The votecount at deadline:
+ Show Spoiler +


On July 18 2012 07:31 Probulous wrote:
Vote Count


Obvious.660 (6): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz, YourHarry, Fulla

Tube (2): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s,

YourHarry (0): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgar

Fulla (1): Hopeless1der

iamperfection (3): calgar, Mufaa, Hapahauli, calgar

JingleHell (0): YourHarry

Obvious.660 set to be lynched

+ Show Spoiler [Previous Vote Count] +
On July 18 2012 05:43 Acrofales wrote:
V V V V VOTE COUNT!!!



Obvious.660 (4): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube, Evulrabbitz

Tube (3): JingleHell, Obvious.660, YourHarry, drwiggl3s

YourHarry (2): JingleHell, Hapahauli, calgar

Fulla (1): Hopeless1der

iamperfection (1): calgar, Mufaa

JingleHell (0): YourHarry

Not yet voted: Fulla

Obvious.660 set to be lynched

You have about 2 1/4 hours till the deadline. Please use the correct format for voting, including ##s and unvotes when needed. Wrong votes will not be found by cntrl-f

+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +
V V V V VOTE COUNT!!!



Obvious.660 (3): YourHarry, JingleHell, iamperfection, tube

Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660

Fulla (1): Hopeless1der

iamperfection (1): calgar

YourHarry (1): JingleHell, Hapahauli

Not yet voted: Fulla, Mufaa, drwiggl3s, YourHarry, Evulrabbitz

You have about 6 hours till the deadline.

+ Show Spoiler [previous count] +
On July 17 2012 14:55 Probulous wrote:
Vote Count


Obvious.660 (2): YourHarry, JingleHell

Tube (1): JingleHell, Obvious.660

YourHarry (0): JingleHell

You have about 17 hours till the deadline.






There was still ample opportunity to get tube lynched and wiggles did make some effort to do so. Tube's posting history is most certainly against him, but I still think he is town.By no means do I expect this to change your mind, but I want it made clear that I think tube is town and I am not currently willing to push for his lynch.



I went through calgar's filter, and I especially took notice of his case against iamperfection.
Looking at the way the votes fell, I think Hapa and calgar might have had the right idea day1 voting for iamperfection. At the end of day1:
Jingle, Harry, Evul are all voting for Obvious' lynch and are pretty much confirmed townies. I think tube is also town, and Fulla doesn't read scum. which leaves iamperfection. (This all goes out the window when you consider tube or fulla being mafia, which at present I do not)

Calgar, I'm reading you as town now. I don't like the way you side with Hapa but not Jingle during N1, but I think thats the remnants of the Day1 'wait and see' business so I'm not going to count that against you.

I agree with your earlier case that iamperfection is scum:
Show nested quote +
On July 20 2012 07:19 calgar wrote:
Here’s my case:
+ Show Spoiler +
Let’s go back to iamperfection who I called out very early. I brought his case up before anyone else, as a matter of fact. If it’s such an obvious case then why was I the first to bring it up? I’d also like to remind you that a confirmed townie was suspicious of him. This is one of the reasons I thought obvious was innocent.

Do me a favor and re-read my initial argument:
On July 17 2012 06:24 calgar wrote:
Two – Nice of you to grace us with a single post, iamperfection. I feel like this may have been somewhat buried so I’d like to bring it back to people’s attention. I want to call to attention poor logic and assumptions.
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 00:42 iamperfection wrote:It means i got me eye on you google is kind of usefull.


Although calgar's premise is wrong. I think a mafia member is more likely to put much more thought into their posts then a non mafia member. From my 1 game of experience in which i played more of a lurker role as a mafia member the other 2 members put a ton of thought and effort into their posts. Even as going as far as having the coach review their posts before posting them to see what they thought.
Your logic:
Hmm, so my premise about his anti-town behavior is wrong, based on your limited observations of being mafia last game? What?! First, that’s a terrible sample size. Second, it’s fallacious to assume that anything in your previous games has any relevance on how people will act in this one. Poor logic and mafia-like. What relevance does your specific last game have at all to our situation here?

Show nested quote +
You are by far looking the more sucpicious right now. The accusation on tube is telling to me. After the heat on you it seems you like you know want to set up a policy of lynching lurker or people that do one liners. Instead of drving the attention on one person it appears to me you are trying to get us looking at a whole group in order to confuse the town

FOS Calgar

Also, i think there is a possibility yourharry post was an attempt to get attention away from calgar

smaller FOS on YourHarry
It looks like you just scanned my post quickly and attacked it as “trying to shift suspicion”. Did you even read it or consider what I meant? It seems like many others agree with me about his anti-town behavior. It seems you’re defending anti-town behavior of tube here.

Why are you suggesting that I have some grand strategy of people to lynch? It looks to me like I made one very specific post about a single player. Yet I have plans of setting up a lynching policy to "confuse the town". Putting words into my mouth - very suspicious.

Your post strikes me as if you were mafia and were planning how to enter the game late. You decided to jump onto someone’s reasoning bandwagon to try and avoid attention. Why do I say this? You make no effort in original thought. To me it looks like you scanned the thread, looked at who had been attacked, and said “Oh yeah I agree, FOS on the same two guys as jingle”.

I think my case is straightforward and makes sense. Iamperfection has a habit of just jumping onto other people’s suspicions. It’s clear that he’s not even bothering to read the thread. He says neither I nor hapa have made arguments as a reason for us to be suspicious. We both, in fact, do. It’s like he’s playing a different game or all the arguments and evidence is just flying over his head.

He then backs off of me after I vote him to avoid a confrontation. Now he’s back at it, tagging onto me with no reasoning.

Look at this quote:
On July 20 2012 01:24 iamperfection wrote:
Jingles claim looks legitamate to me. I'm not buying any crap that jingle should be dead because he bread crumbed. It would be so risky for jingle to lie and hell this is newbie mafia i didnt spot the bread crumb and im sure a lot of players didnt spot it.
He bandwagons with jingle again. His second and third sentences are logically disconnected. What does the issue of whether or not mafia picked up on the breadcrumb have to do with how risky it is for jingle to lie? His play is so careless. It's fact that I've challenged people in the thread to talk more. iamperfection has never done this. Why does it seem that I am the only one that feels strongly about this?

I think perf is very likely mafia. Even if you think I'm a bit suspicious, I knew jingle was JK so you're saying that mafia knew of the JK and didn't shoot. Why would mafia ever pass up such an easy blue? It looks like the mafia may have missed the breadcrumb. iamperfection missed it and I think he’s mafia. Is this not plausible? Lynch him first – you can always come back to me with more information.



However, I've come to that conclusion using a read that conflicts with your own (that tube is or isnt town). I'd like to get some more posts from both tube and iamperfection to confirm our reads, but I am most comfortable pushing for iamperfection's lynch tomorrow.

Most recently, iamperfection voices his concern that YourHarry is probably a bad idea, but doesn't switch his vote until after Jingle has moved on. It could very well be that he was scared of drawing attention, or he could be hiding behind Jingle's town cred. I see either action as being scum than being town. He made no pro-active effort to save YourHarry, and I count that against him.

I made a read that yourharry constant attacking against jingle was dumb. I dont think a group of scum along with a coach would have wasted time and effort investing in making jingle look scummy when it was pretty clear that jingle was town . The on read that i was absoulute on was that jingle was town so that is why i followed his lead.

Now your suggesting that i bussed a power role scum at the same time putting my own neck on the line due to the voting numbers. It also wasnt very clear that we would be able to get done under the time constraits that we had. You can continue to waste time persuing me but i think the tube vote is a telling sign and his answers have not been good enough to clear any suspcion that i have so i will continue to try to get him to talk so we get a clearrer picture.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 21 2012 17:39 GMT
#1007
also im going to the casino for the rest of the night wish me luck.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 22 2012 05:31 GMT
#1026
time= 1 am

condition= intoxicated

casino winnings= $300

Capitalization randomizer= operaTiOnal

Spell cehk = off

Grammer check= unlikely to not be on


log entry

Return from casino in great mood wons lots of money hit straight flush in 3 card poker. Return to accusations against the perfect one.. NoT cool. Hoever condition allows me to see things more clearly i see the end game i see the light i see what i have been looking. For.

Son of a bitch
On July 21 2012 04:46 Hopeless1der wrote:


In the event that YourHarry is lynched, I don't see a solid target to go after tomorrow no matter what he flips. If iamperfection is lynched and flips town, that's almost an autolynch on calgar. If drwiggl3s is lynched, I actually do think there is a good chance that he's scum based on the case you just made.





On July 22 2012 02:54 Hopeless1der wrote:

Overall you haven't done much for town. You're scummier to me than tube, or anyone else in the game right now. I don't think pursuing your lynch is a waste of time at all. It should generate some discussion and hopefully confirm some reads going into the next day, even if we end up lynching someone else


On July 22 2012 10:34 Hopeless1der wrote:


[/gives calgar a cookie]
I'm willing to get behind this vote, but calgar, I disagree with using the phrase 'confirmed' on most of us except YourHarry. Any one of us could be scum as far as I'm concerned. In the event that iamperfection flips town, I will consider you heavily implicated, despite the fact that you have played an active town role that has helped overall. You, me, Hapa, and speedbump are all candidates to be considered scum.

You son of a bitch
@ calgar
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 22 2012 05:32 GMT
#1027
also sppeed bumps name is now speedhump heheehe

and im
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 22 2012 18:32 GMT
#1037
On July 23 2012 02:37 Fulla wrote:
It seems to have a went a bit dead...

@Iamperfection - who do you think is/are scum? What are your thoughts?

Ive been thinking that my biasis from the previous game have been clouding my judgement thinking that their must be an active member as scum. I think for right now my number one target would be tube. The votes tell more of a story to me and i agree with the assesment that tubes vot was an attempt to start a panic bandwagon when wiggles started to get some supsicion.

For the time being i would like hopeless to respond to my previous post by my alter ego from last night.

Both you and tube have been sitting back with the current situation with me being in the cross hairs. Why? What are your thoughts on me?

Why with me current suspicon tube and my new evidence against hopeless have you not even comented on it? You had made previous comments on both players. what now?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 22 2012 20:19 GMT
#1040
On July 23 2012 04:43 tube wrote:
I said more than that.

You should be kind of freaking out right now. Your actions right now seem to me to be more scum motivated than to be town from my perspective. If you think just by sitting back you can just let me get lynched and just stall for one more. If we take your explanation for your vote at face value it even looks worse. You just voted for the heck of it and didnt read at all? Might as well just have let yourself get replaced if you dont care wether you win or not.

Did i look scummy on day one hell yeah. But ive been trying my hardest with the situation that i dealt myself to try and improve it. At least ill be able to look back the game and say i tried. Did i play the best no (even though the perfect one made 2 perfect reads on jingle and yourharry before anyone else) but im gonna at least im gonna go down swinging. If your town join in the conversation even if you dont agree with the other people are saying.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 22 2012 20:20 GMT
#1042
and to further light a fire under your ass

## Vote tube
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 22 2012 20:32 GMT
#1044
On July 23 2012 05:24 calgar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2012 05:19 iamperfection wrote:
On July 23 2012 04:43 tube wrote:
I said more than that.
Did i play the best no (even though the perfect one made 2 perfect reads on jingle and yourharry before anyone else) but im gonna at least im gonna go down swinging. If your town join in the conversation even if you dont agree with the other people are saying.
As far as I'm concerned you piled your vote onto YourHarry and doubted jingle's motives until well after he claimed JK with the crumb... How does that constitute a 'perfect read' - it had to be spelled out for you. You were pretty far from the truth in both cases.

You do realize the perfect gimmick is kind of my "thing" right.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 23 2012 05:27 GMT
#1056
On July 23 2012 06:35 Hopeless1der wrote:

@Perfection, there are a couple things you've brought up.
1 is my "trap" set for calgar. I originally suspected you two of bussing from the start, especially after calgar neglected to really push for your lynch day1.

I was starting to think of the scum team as whole and i think we may be possibly giving them to much credit. Looking back at the drwiggles situation against jingle it dosent really make sense what he did. As calgar pointed out earlier when i had read jingle as town it should have been obvious to almost everyone including the scumteam that jingle was confirmed townie. Also he had to be kill choice that night so why bother making comments like drwigles did when you knew you were going to likely have to kill him anyways. I made a similar point in which i defended yourharry when he was underfire but maybe my thinking is wrong and the reason for drwiggles poor play is due to possible inactiveness of his fellow scum players.

Maybe the reason they were sitting back was how we were all going at each others throats. Jingle @ yoyrharry jingle@ hapa well jingle @ everyone really the calga hopeless me hate triangle. Perhaps they thought we would just kill ourselves off.

Going from this logic perhaps its more simple than we thought and 2 of the scum players are among the most inactive between fulla and tube

Ill put speedbump seperatly because he seems to be doing a better job than those 2 in at least giving us a little something to go off of. However it would support my theory of a directionless scum team that a player was replaced due to inactivity.

@tube if your town i know you have a tool avaliable to you that your not using he is lonely and has nothing better to do use it.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 23 2012 13:58 GMT
#1059
On July 23 2012 22:19 tube wrote:
I didn't jump on the obvious bandwagon I saw reasons of my own to vote him and I think I was the second vote on him.
Wiggles was definitely going to die that day so I voted perfection to show that I still thought of him as scum.

"honestly mafia is laughing at you" wasn't at wiggles read the context again

its crap like this man it would have taken two seconds to go back and you would have seen i was the second vote on obcious.

Also it was sure thing that drwiggle was going to be lynched when you voted for me? Try again go look back he had 0 votes when you voted for me. So unless you had the gift of foresight you couldnt have known and why would you lie about it now?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 23 2012 18:47 GMT
#1066
On July 24 2012 03:37 tube wrote:
eh you guys are making a mistake lol

Are you going to vote?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 24 2012 03:41 GMT
#1084
Remember this

On July 22 2012 14:31 iamperfection wrote:
time= 1 am

condition= intoxicated

casino winnings= $300

Capitalization randomizer= operaTiOnal

Spell cehk = off

Grammer check= unlikely to not be on


log entry

Return from casino in great mood wons lots of money hit straight flush in 3 card poker. Return to accusations against the perfect one.. NoT cool. Hoever condition allows me to see things more clearly i see the end game i see the light i see what i have been looking. For.

Son of a bitch
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2012 04:46 Hopeless1der wrote:


In the event that YourHarry is lynched, I don't see a solid target to go after tomorrow no matter what he flips. If iamperfection is lynched and flips town, that's almost an autolynch on calgar. If drwiggl3s is lynched, I actually do think there is a good chance that he's scum based on the case you just made.





Show nested quote +
On July 22 2012 02:54 Hopeless1der wrote:

Overall you haven't done much for town. You're scummier to me than tube, or anyone else in the game right now. I don't think pursuing your lynch is a waste of time at all. It should generate some discussion and hopefully confirm some reads going into the next day, even if we end up lynching someone else


Show nested quote +
On July 22 2012 10:34 Hopeless1der wrote:





[/gives calgar a cookie]
I'm willing to get behind this vote, but calgar, I disagree with using the phrase 'confirmed' on most of us except YourHarry. Any one of us could be scum as far as I'm concerned. In the event that iamperfection flips town, I will consider you heavily implicated, despite the fact that you have played an active town role that has helped overall. You, me, Hapa, and speedbump are all candidates to be considered scum.

You son of a bitch
@ calgar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddAi8FF3F4


This was the response

On July 23 2012 06:35 Hopeless1der wrote:

@Perfection, there are a couple things you've brought up.
1 is my "trap" set for calgar. I originally suspected you two of bussing from the start, especially after calgar neglected to really push for your lynch day1.


Now ive been trying to wrap my had around this answer. So he admidts that there is a trap for both me and calgar but ive been thinking what kind of town player would set a trap? As hopeless has so greately reminded the town that there is likely no dt he has no extra information. There is no reason for regular town player to set traps since really almost always we are just making educated guesses.Why put your fellow town players at risk when for making a misread? Plus he was somewhat liberal with the truth in the second part of the statement. calgar has basically tried to get me killed at every point in the game he really hasent pushed of at all untill now.

My vote will go for hopeless when we start.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 25 2012 02:21 GMT
#1108
@hopeless ive been reading your defense and i think you did a good job in defending yourself. Ive been rereading filters and i want to bring this up

On July 21 2012 13:20 Hopeless1der wrote:
As a note regarding Jingle's request for protection, I really doubt we have a medic and a jailkeeper. Jailer can be used to simulate a medic if used correctly, and the balance of this game would be insanely town favored if we had both imo.
Can scum KP be roleblocked?
Because that's probably your only way to survive until tomorrow Jingle.


Now when you think about i think this was a honest mistake by hopeless and was silly to mention in the thread even tugh it was true. However why in the world would a scum player bring this up? The scum player would want jingle to feel a flase sense of security and therfore not put his cards on the table. If jingle knows hes going to die hes going to get all possible information out there in order to help the town in order to win.

Now i know you might think my actions are scummy and you think me and calgar are bot scum but we can cross that bridge whe we come to it.

In the mean time i will continue to try and hunt and i think a certian someone has beenflying under the radar.
On July 23 2012 14:01 Speedbump wrote:
@Hapahauli: While I'm still suspicious of iamperfection, the cases posted against Tube are very compelling. Tube has spent no time defending himself and sounds like a mafia dying as quiet as possible.

@Hopeless1der: Based on level of suspiciousness each player has, the most probable mafia is tube, Fulla being the secondmost.

Tube is still posting in a manner that makes it very hard to believe that he could be anything other than mafia. Fulla has spent even less time posting towards helping town, mainly avoiding conversation by lurking and posting one-liners. The only time Fulla has tried to help town is through relentless railing of Hopeless1der, who I have a very good town read on.

@YourHarry: I also find the interactions between drwiggl3s and tube to be rather weird. I do not see a town tube to be so willing in his complacency in actively hunting mafia.
With these two posts tube made in Day 1, with the post analysis, the second post makes me adamant that tube is mafia.

Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 06:05 tube wrote:
wait what?
how is it mathematically sound to just lynch someone because you think their "active lurking" is an attitude that hurts town (explain how i am doing this)
there are 12 people and you want to use the first lynch to get rid of me for sure on a petty basis

honestly mafia is laughing at you

Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 06:05 tube wrote:
ebwop after my 4th line: even if im town

As such, ##Vote tube.

This is his only real post and he dosent really add anything new to the table.

For someone that
On July 21 2012 19:11 Speedbump wrote:

I'm going to re-read everything tonight, and hopefully be caught up a few hours before the end of night.
(


You would think he would have a little bit more to say on matters. I want to hear what his thought are on the current situation as soon as possible. I know hes a replacement but this is crunch time we need more information out of him.

and

## Vote calgar
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 25 2012 15:16 GMT
#1130
On July 26 2012 00:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
Here's my problem with voting for a No-Lynch. We'd need to be prepared for the last minute vote from scum, because its plurality and they might be able to sneak the mislynch in today. I'm usually available at deadline, but I can't guarantee it, and I don't want to even give scum the chance to pull a fast one. If we can get 5 of us to agree to be around at the deadline I'll consider it.

If you and me switch to no lynch that cant happen. that would bring it to 5 if a "town" speed bump randomly voted for someone and if the two scum switched no lynch would still win.

Right?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 25 2012 15:54 GMT
#1133
## unvote
## vote no lynch
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 25 2012 18:04 GMT
#1134
Mr. speedbump if you would be so kind to indulge us for just a minute. please?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 26 2012 02:03 GMT
#1141
On July 26 2012 09:55 Speedbump wrote:
I lost internet for roughly two days, only got it back today. T_T

First of all, Vote No Lynch. I honestly had massive suspicions of Fulla, but I lost internet access half-way through making a case on him. I agree that the safest course of action that town has is to go with a No Lynch. It means that town can play much more cautiously and still win.

My role is Senior.

At the risk of OMGUS, I think that this post from calgar is over-assumptive.

Show nested quote +
On July 26 2012 03:54 calgar wrote:
My play has definitely been reckless. I’ve been aggressive and posted reads and made mistakes. That’s been the same all game long. I was grasping at straws when I tried to read in hopeless, kind of like with my attempted meta-analysis of iamperfection. Here’s my new case.

I’ve rethought what I think about hopeless and him calling out that there was no doctor. Jingle knew there might not be a doctor but he tried to stay alive by ‘requesting’ it nevertheless. Hopeless points out that there probably isn’t one. Jingle is mad because hopeless has just killed whatever small chance jingle had of living to the next day. I think mafia wouldn’t have wanted jingle to be warned so explicitly. Maybe he still had some hope left and might not have done anything productive at night. I’ll stop here because it descends into even more WIFOM but I think hopeless is town because of this.

Now, town should 100% no lynch. Whoever mafia hits, even Harry who we have strong feelings about, the field will be narrower and there is one less person to hide behind. Town will have a good chance at getting mafia lynched and that will bring it to 3-1, still very winnable. Mafia wants to lynch today and for people to get overzealous and go for their reads prematurely. Town needs to play logically here. Logic says no lynch is the best call statistically.

My case now is against our replacement. Whatever you think about me, I think there is a better case for him. I think the burden is on the replacer to clear their name with aggressive posting and reads. I think if he were town he would have tried much harder to do so. Wouldn’t you if you had replaced in? This isn’t someone like tube who signed up and then gave up. He signed up as a replacement and then accepted it. I think he should care more considering he joined recently. He should have been posting much more, except for the fact that he hasn’t needed to since lurking would have almost won with people lynching on MYLO. He left us dangling with a promise to return. iamperfection is on the right track for calling him out.

It’s interesting that mafia didn’t kill harry OR Speedbump-- not shooting Harry was a gamble, since he’s confirmed townie, to try and get a mislynch. Speedbump, though, as a replacement, traditionally gets the ‘benefit of the doubt’ and wouldn’t be lynched at LYLO. Mafia has definitely thought of this! viscera would have thought of it, and they are probably aware of it from guides also. Replacement townies are a huge liability for the mafia-- speedbump being alive should be very suspicious + everything else added on.

Bolded the logical flaw I see in your post. It's much easier to make assumptions about how replacements play, instead of actually playing the game. To answer your flawed analysis there; unless the player pre-replacement plays exceptionally poorly, I don't think that the replacement has any onus of burden to defend himself overzealously, like you're implying. In fact, overzealous play causes more problems for town, with potential mislynches.

But then, when one is reckless and grasping at straws the whole game, it would be easier to make more brash and reckless assumptions to mislynch and win. Have you got anything substantial to go on, or is this all purely WIFOM?

FoS calgar

you forgot the ## for your vote
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 26 2012 21:01 GMT
#1151
On July 21 2012 04:38 calgar wrote:
I'll agree with you that drwiggles is a good lynch right now. Is he better than harry though? I'm planning to move my vote away from iamperfection - I may have come up with a solution to him, I'll post more on that in a little. Harry under fire has given us good reads on how several people have reacted.


On July 23 2012 05:24 calgar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2012 05:19 iamperfection wrote:
On July 23 2012 04:43 tube wrote:
I said more than that.
Did i play the best no (even though the perfect one made 2 perfect reads on jingle and yourharry before anyone else) but im gonna at least im gonna go down swinging. If your town join in the conversation even if you dont agree with the other people are saying.
As far as I'm concerned you piled your vote onto YourHarry and doubted jingle's motives until well after he claimed JK with the crumb... How does that constitute a 'perfect read' - it had to be spelled out for you. You were pretty far from the truth in both cases.



Its funny that you would make fun of me saying that my read had to be spelled out for me when we look back it seems it wasen't so obvious at the time for you. Why is that Mr. Calgar? This as other pointed out is a scum slip in my eyes.

the first post is the most daming evidence against you and i will be very reluctant following any type of case you put forth. Calgar is scum and my eyes and we should lynch him and move forward from there.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 27 2012 22:56 GMT
#1158
On July 28 2012 07:51 YourHarry wrote:
When's the deadline. Is it in 9 minutes?

Didn't it already pass. I think we have been forsaken.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 28 2012 19:52 GMT
#1172
@calgar

just to be clear

Who do you think the second scum member is? Is it still hopeless in your eyes?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9640 Posts
July 29 2012 05:15 GMT
#1184
## Vote Calgar

I think the final boss is going to be hard.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
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