EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXI - Page 7
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
We aren't giving what you seem to consider "clear thoughts" on you because there's so damn little to talk about. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 19 2012 11:42 iamperfection wrote: So then why would calgar go so strong against me. Are we both mafia in some sort of gambit? That would seem highly risky to me. Unless your case against cagar is incorrect and i am the scum. I think ive made enough posts defending myself on what happened on day one you continue to hurl insults at everyone or try to actually help the town instead of thinking your helping the town. I dont get whats so difficult about my point. no one has stated a reason that if im a scum player why would i put myself in that day 1 situation. What would be my strategy going forward. I cant think of any. So all im guilty of is lurking on day one. So your entire explanation for your play is based on WIFOM logic, applied by you, to you... right. Someone else want to do this guy? I'm going to bed. And I've seen enough filters for tonight. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 19 2012 20:56 Hapahauli wrote: First of all, I don't see where he casts suspicion on Jingle. He's definetely critical of Jingle's play, but I don't see any instances of him casting direct suspicion (link me a post if I'm wrong, could've missed something). Critical =/= accusatory. Secondly, his "bus" on iamperfection isn't weak at all. He's really consistent about his attitude towards him throughout D1 and holds his suspicions throughout N1. But here's the key point: why would mafia EVER try to push for a N1 vigi kill on their ally?! There's no difference between 6-3 and 5-3. Both situations still require two people to switch votes. Furthermore, there was a lot of reason to believe that the relatively inactive Fulla wouldn't come in to vote at all. Is it wildly inconsistent and not make sense? Yes. Is it mafia-motivated? No. Why would he ever establish Jingle as a strong townie read? It just doesn't make sense from a mafia perspective. It's more plausible from a bad analysis/bad townie post perspective. 1: The post was already linked. He directly implied only a scummy motive would want more evidence with perfection rather than wanting a vigi hit. You bring up WIFOM, but let's face it. At that point in time, if I was on the scum team, I'd be thinking the best possible use for Perfection would be dying to get me town credit. 2:Scum need at least one visible townie to keep around as a smokescreen for their own active players until later in the game. If they've been known to be unlucky like me, so much the better. Scum can't push an agenda if the entire thread is quiet. 3: Calgar, despite being so much more logical than me (according to himself) has yet to respond to my points with anything other than attempts to pick fights. 4: You've asked why scum Calgar would have posted telling us to stop fighting. That's ridiculous. Visible scum aiming for town leadership should do exactly that. 5: My case may seem like it's made up of tiny little things... wasn't it Calgar who, at the beginning, gave the scum a huge amount of credit saying not to look for big obvious things? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 19 2012 22:31 calgar wrote: I'm curious. I've said I'll answer anything specific. I don't think it will be productive to go through everyone's huge lists with a long typed up response. Too much clutter. Fulla, your question is about to be answered here, too, I think. Calgar, let's make sure we're on the same page with what you want me to be answering. And I'll be more than thrilled to answer. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
I have something relatively damning waiting to come to light, the only reason I've held off on it was to wait for it to become less circumstantial, which it has. Since Calgar commented on it, I'll present it. Although since I agreed to it, he suddenly seems wary of bringing my breadcrumb he commented on to light. On July 18 2012 23:57 JingleHell wrote: Just As well I Love EvulRabbitz, since he seems a bit off. Could just be A blue again. Loved his Great job As detective Really. Obviously, I'm all for forcing Perfection to be active during the day today, how do you guys feel about frontloading a few votes on him while we do our discussion? I'm still a bit nervous about YourHarry, and frankly, as much as there's going to be people calling this scummy, I still feel it's wise to give a slight BOTD to perfection, just because he really does seem too easy to lynch. A hypothetical townie perfection would just be the world's easiest mislynch to feed us. Rather visible, yes? "Jailer Calgar." That's right, Calgar was jailed. Now, you might wonder what good that could do? Well, something I've been paranoid about was the possibility of a Hapa scum. It would take fairly damning evidence for me to accuse him without it looking like an extension of our dislike for each other, even though we've kept votes off each other throughout. Well, if we assume townie, with Calgar blocked and protected, the most obvious target for an NK would be Hapa. Especially since there's usually not that many blue roles in newbie games, with Vet flipped, and me obviously on Calgar, Hapa should have been fair game. Instead, they went for Evul. Two possible values for this. One, it could look like I was breadcrumbing an NK, putting suspicion on me, but since scum can talk in QT, that would just be arrogant and foolish. Also, if Hapahauli was scum, they obviously wouldn't NK him, so they just killed a random dude. Since I posted heavy suspicions on Calgar for his post about vigi hit on Perfection after that, Hapa has stepped in to defend him, posting copious amounts of WIFOM. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
They didn't, which lends credence to my fear that Hapa is scum. Calling it "trying to encourage scum to kill Hapa" is an unfair misrepresentation. This is mafia. Everyone is guilty until proven innocent. So I left a deliberate opening, Hapa wasn't killed, and when the case starts showing up against Calgar, Hapa defends him with very weak WIFOM. Yeah, circumstance. Welcome to how Mafia is played. It's not conclusive in and of itself, but it certainly would make sense. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 19 2012 23:41 Hapahauli wrote: So you're saying that both Calgar AND I are scum? All this based on a breadcrumb that mafia may or may not have seen?! Really? I'm saying it fits. Calgar certainly seemed to think it was pretty visible. You'll notice I freely admit it's a pile of circumstance. I'd say people besides you should maybe try and decide for themselves on Calgar, and if he flips scum, we should maybe look closely at you. I did it specifically because we've had enough issues with each other that it's pretty easy to have bias get in the way, so I looked for something that could point to itself. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
Although you calling it so visible seems to really hurt Hapa's comment about scum may or may not have seen it, wouldn't you agree? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 20 2012 00:08 Hapahauli wrote: @ Jingle - Assuming that Mafia saw your breadcrumb, why didn't they shoot you? You should be dead a thousand times over by that logic. Secondly, if Calgar and I were mafia, wouldn't killing the only other vocal townie (and sniping a blue on top of that) be really freggin' good for us? We would dominate the discussion for the rest of the game and get people lynched at will. Thirdly, why the hell would we both be actively establishing your innocence, even AFTER you pushed the Obvious.660 mislynch? Haven't I already commented on the pile of WIFOM you're trying to feed me? Shooting me would have removed the panic button of pointing fingers at me for mislynches. I already explained that twice, so if you're not going to respond to the explanation, I've got nothing further to say on this. And your thirdly I've also answered. Please don't respond by asking questions I answered already with no substance, all WIFOM. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
If that doesn't make sense, I've given you far too much credit. In fact, I hope people won't believe you suddenly not being able to think. More than anyone else here, I can't stand your personality, but I still know you're sharp enough to understand what I'm saying, and feigning ignorance is so grossly out of character for you as a defense, that I hope others see it too. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 20 2012 00:24 Fulla wrote: Jingle I find this whole thing requires too much of a leap of faith. I really don't think pursuing this is a good idea. The more I think about the more killing the silent guy was the best choice for scum. - 1 town was removed, without giving ANY information out. - Alot of fingers going around.already It has only increased the paranoia. Anybody here as Mafia could have made the choice to kill the silent guy. It doesn't make anyone more suspicious in my eyes? Fulla, have you actually read my case against Calgar, independent of the suspicion on Hapa? I find it hard to believe. If mine's too long for a lurker, try reading Hopeless's case instead. I've already said Hapa isn't guaranteed to be scum even if Calgar is. I've just established a plausible link to pursue following Calgar. Right now, their primary defense is a combination of WIFOM and the Obvious mislynch. Quite a few people believed in that, and given that it was a mislynch, most likely one or two scum didn't even vote for obvious, so there's very solid odds that there were enough town on Obvious to secure his lynch without any scum votes at all. Pointing to the mislynch is an easy and obvious means of discrediting me, but, if you take the fact that they only feel sort of scummy, in a way that requires a leap of faith, and combine it with the WIFOM people seem to want to follow now that scum wouldn't be glaringly obvious (pointed to by Calgar early in D1 no less), well, they become better targets if it requires a leap of faith, not worse. And going back to Calgar's early statement about scum probably being too smart to be obvious scum... why then, was Calgar so interested in the easy target of Perfection? | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
##Vote Calgar Until and unless Calgar stops trying to dismiss my case against him as "too long" (too much evidence, lolwut?) and actually responds to it. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
On July 20 2012 00:50 calgar wrote: Your case is WIFOM, what is there to address? I'm spreading seeds of doubt? I flop votes like a bunny on cocaine? Like its going out of style? I lobbied to save a townie as part of a malicious plan? Because hapa is still alive after your silly breadcrumb? You aren't worth a response so you're not going to get another. Show me a mafia case that isn't based on WIFOM. I dare you. Every single mafia case can be turned into WIFOM, literally. And my case is based on your entire posting history, broken down into piles and piles of scummy behavior. Don't like the rhetoric? That's nice. But basing a dismissal of that much evidence on the phrasing is as scummy as it gets. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
I can't stop lurkers from lurking, I can't force them to read the case and come to their own conclusions. But if they don't choose to play to win, it's literally impossible for me to do it by myself. So I'll just give it some time, and see what the town decides. | ||
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JingleHell
United States11308 Posts
If you can explain to me how that makes me scummier than him, I'd love to hear it. | ||
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