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drwiggl3s you've provided nothing about this case but suspicion and doubt regarding Jingle, who is effectively the only thing close to a confirmed townie. Discrediting him is removing value from what I view as a town asset. How could that be construed in a way that is pro-town?
@Jingle: YourHarry had backed off of attempting to get you voted very early, but continues to argue (poorly) and question the hows and whys that you claimed/breadcrumbed under. Taking out YourHarry gives us more information today as there is some discussion surrounding him to look at. drwiggl3s, muffa, tube and fulla are not very active and failed to provide significant reads for anything going on today, so there is much to pursue after the lynch.
However, aside from the last 5 or 6 pages, the only other condemning evidence against YourHarry came primarily from Hapa concerning his day1 play. I think his arguments with you were stupid but ultimately I see two options: he's trying to get himself lynched or hes not thinking through the purpose of the discussion he's generated. I think YourHarry is just bad townie right now.
In the event that YourHarry is lynched, I don't see a solid target to go after tomorrow no matter what he flips. If iamperfection is lynched and flips town, that's almost an autolynch on calgar. If drwiggl3s is lynched, I actually do think there is a good chance that he's scum based on the case you just made.
I'm not convinced you can get the votes to back that decision, but its looking better by the minute. Between the three of iamperfection, YourHarry and drwiggl3s, in what order would you lynch them? I'd rather pile votes onto iamperfection or drwiggl3s as soon as possible so that they're lynched in the event of a tie.
##Unvote
##Vote: drwiggl3s
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A "blatant trap"?
All it is is that we have different play styles Jingle. You make WIFOM cases on people. You make cases based off of what they may or may not have meant in their posts. I prefer to make judgements of alignment based on reactions. It was the reason I stuck with wanting to lynch tube after I saw how when pressured he totally changed his play style. To me, this tells a lot more about ones alignment than whatever you may perceive to be as a "slip" or whatever.
I know what colour I'll flip to. And since you've been the person controlling the game, if Harry flips green I'll conclude that your either mafia, or bad town leading us down a hole.
Anyway, what is your reaction to my pressure? Hmm? Soon as one of your town full of sheep (thus far) tries to call you out you switch your vote to him. This does 2 things. For one, it makes it so Harry won't get lynched (therefore you don't have to be responsible to the case I'm making against you). And for two, you're trying to kill off me (as someone who could push for a lynch against you) just to keep the town full of people that'll only sheep you.
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what happens when the votes shift like that in regard to a tie though is yourharry still considered to have been at 3 first if it goes back to 3?
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Yourharry comes down from above to tie it, so he maintains his lead, but since hopeless just shifted off you to wiggles, wiggles should be leading. Votecount/confirmation please?
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On July 21 2012 04:47 drwiggl3s wrote:
A "blatant trap"?
All it is is that we have different play styles Jingle. You make WIFOM cases on people. You make cases based off of what they may or may not have meant in their posts. I prefer to make judgements of alignment based on reactions. It was the reason I stuck with wanting to lynch tube after I saw how when pressured he totally changed his play style. To me, this tells a lot more about ones alignment than whatever you may perceive to be as a "slip" or whatever.
I know what colour I'll flip to. And since you've been the person controlling the game, if Harry flips green I'll conclude that your either mafia, or bad town leading us down a hole.
Anyway, what is your reaction to my pressure? Hmm? Soon as one of your town full of sheep (thus far) tries to call you out you switch your vote to him. This does 2 things. For one, it makes it so Harry won't get lynched (therefore you don't have to be responsible to the case I'm making against you). And for two, you're trying to kill off me (as someone who could push for a lynch against you) just to keep the town full of people that'll only sheep you.
Yes, a blatant trap, which you're continuing to try and set for me, and in doing so, shoving your foot deeper into your mouth. Your plan backfired. A lurker can't suddenly come out of the woodwork without drawing heavy attention to motive, and the only plausible motive for your current play is to get me lynched. And now you're in survival mode because it was spotted and called out.
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@Fulla: You're a lurker who I targetted and never got a response out of. I voted you as pressure on Day1 and never felt the need to move my vote. I supported the lynch on Obvious because his actions were scummy.
You didn't even have any actions to make a read on. You're 'case' on me comes down to the fact that I voted for you, but have scarcely given me the opportunity to explain why I voted for you and whether I still think you're scummy. For the record I don't know what to think about you, but I've got a lot of scum reads and even more null reads on lurkers. There are other things to address without getting into things with you right now. If you want to take a swing, I think its best left for tonight unless you have a solid enough case to stack 5 votes on me within 3 hours.
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Ok, I’ll be switching my vote to drwiggl3s here.
I also want to propose a temporary solution to iamperfection. I may have been reading his actions on the wrong side of the coin. I’ve said in my previous posts that it boiled down to whether he was mafia or confused townie. At the time we didn’t have anything better to go off of so I considered it to be our best vote in order to maximize the % of killing mafia. What he’s said recently in his vote on YourHarry made me change my mind. His defense of YourHarry shows his reluctance to put the vote there, so he shouldn’t have any trouble changing to match with jingle again.
Anyways, what made me doubt my strong stance previously has a lot to do with the flurry of posting last night and today. YourHarry seems to have been pressured into making several revealing plays. Drwiggl3s has positioned himself to look good after the lynch. We can evaluate these more closely, soon. When iamperfection said that his best town read was jingle I understood about him following jingle’s vote. I’ve been sort of doing the same with hapa. Now, to ‘prove’ his townie-ness, let’s get him to agree to vote with jingle every vote. He says he believes jingle is essentially 100% town so he’s going to follow him. As long as he does so, then we have his vote with the town side no matter what his role is. He shouldn’t have any problem agreeing to this since he has said he wants to follow jingle’s vote. We can use this as a temporary stall to eliminate him from our suspects pool and try to root out member #2 after drwiggl3s. As long as he is voting with us, he is a temporary ally.
##Unvote
##Vote drwiggl3s
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So the case on me is that I suggested Jingle might be just leading town down the shitter?
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If Harry is lynched it will at least tell us SOMETHING about who is town and who isn't in this game. If I'm lynched what will it tell you when I flip town? We'll be back to D1. No correlations, or connections, or anything. Do you really want to throw your D2 lynch away like this?
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On July 21 2012 04:58 drwiggl3s wrote:
So the case on me is that I suggested Jingle might be just leading town down the shitter?
Would someone else like to answer this? He actually managed to stop my sarcasm generator from getting power temporarily.
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I want you to answer it Jingle. Since your the one leading another bandwagon on another townie here. Don't draw the attention away from yourself. If I'm going to get lynched and when I flip town I want everyone to know and be sure that they should think twice about what your alignment really is.
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My answer is going to be simple. Respond to the case I made instead of the one you claimed I made. Then, when you flip red, we can all laugh hysterically at these pitiful, flailing attempts to deter suspicion.
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Yes wiggles I want to throw away my vote by taking down a player who accused the almost-confirmed townie of leading us astray. If you were actually town, you should have been attacking his target's case, NOT Jingle himself. YourHarry just made post after post of why Jingle was suspicious and it very nearly got him lynched until you took over for him. Either you dont have the reading skills for this game or you're stirring up trouble intentionally. I think its the latter and that you're scum.
I'll be back in around a half hour or so.
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Since my case is perfectly visible, and easily accessible in my filter, try responding to the points in it. It's not painfully long, since there's no way to make a long post out of your filter.
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I'll be happy to respond to your case if it'll save us from wasting a lynch. Give me a moment here.
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And please, avoid any hypotheticals involving how much smarter than yourself your scum alter ego is. Those get tedious after a while.
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 21 2012 04:29 JingleHell wrote:Since the beginning, drwiggl3s has lurked. Scummy. He's showed up in controversial moments to give us great pearls of wisdom. Like these. Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 05:46 drwiggl3s wrote:On July 17 2012 05:39 tube wrote:
the points against me are that im being an active lurker and thats supposedly our best lynch
how am i supposed to respond to that other than "i just felt like posting" because i didnt want to be inactive
from my point of view im not attracting suspicion to begin with Hmm.. Usually Mafia feel the need to post and "fit in" as they have an inherit sense of guilt. Do you think making non-productive posts makes you look more town? Seems like it has the opposite effect. I'd suggest you share some of your reads with us. What you think about other players etc. If you are town and really do want to get the heat of you.. If you're mafia than keep doing what your doing  Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 08:53 drwiggl3s wrote:Glad you could join is Fulla  In my experience (LVI) it seemed that the first lynch did not turn out to be scum. But that's just down to odds right.. However, one player who posted short reads, accusations, one liners (Bill Murray in that game) ended up being Mafia Boss and was shot N1. Food for thought I guess. Kind of hard to extrapolate good data or trends for D1. Truly food for thought. Day 1, he voted for Tube well after that dust had cleared. Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 03:42 drwiggl3s wrote:Ah ebwop Vote ##tubeOn July 18 2012 03:38 tube wrote:
you're using the same argument that obvious backtracked on
theres literally no difference between the way i was talking before and the way i am now except i use punctuation and capitalization
how do you even get coached in mafia why does everyone keep suggesting this There was a huge difference. But since that post and everyone calling you out on it, YOU have since back tracked and modified your play and posting style to the way it was before. He visibly disassociated himself from the Obvious mislynch, which he seems to be capitalizing on now. Here, he makes a scummy statement about killing Calgar purely for the information. Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 03:34 drwiggl3s wrote:
For my reads right now, I wouldn't mind testing the waters with a Calgar lynch. Getting one of the major players out of the way and see what he flips. This could tell us a lot about iamperfection as well as others who are resistant (or soft defending) a Calgar lynch. And now his recent posting binge. Asking great questions, like what kind of info people might be able to glean from current situations once they resolve. Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 02:35 drwiggl3s wrote:
Jingle since your leading this I want to ask you a question.
If YourHarry flips scum, what information do you think we will gain from that conclusion?
What if YourHarry flips town. What will be your opinion on Calgar, Hap, et all? And generally setting things up so that no matter how Harry flips, he's in a good position. Show nested quote +On July 21 2012 03:50 drwiggl3s wrote:
Jingle I think you could be scum. Despite your Jailer breadcrumb / claim crap. But before I make a (possibly wrong) case, I want to see more information.
Since you're 95% sure that he's scum, I'm sure your comfortable with this. As tomorrow when he's lynched and flips scum I'll be able to believe your actually jailer. Thoughts?
I'll be responding to the above case in points.
1) The "Pearls of Wisdom". Those were day 1 posts. I was trying to encourage others to talk, and to be helpful. There it's clear when I responded to Fulla's question regarding how often mafia actually get lynched day 1. The first post you quoted against tube was me trying to be constructive. Instead of calling him out for his scum slip saying that he "just felt like posting" I tried to explain why this makes him look scummy to us. And I encouraged him to share some reads with us to get more information out of him. Just because I don't post as much as you do doesn't mean I don't actively think out my posts and try to figure out what reaction I can expect from a player. So yes they are "Food for though" despite not spamming up an entire page like you need to.
2) I've already made it clear that I was tunnelling onto tube for his change of play style. I told you that I think people's reactions are a better determining factor of their alignment than their posting. I thought that tube was a better lynch due to his big change in play style once the heat was on. This over obvious who made some controversially possibly scum posts. Despite this being newbie mafia, I believe the mafia are still competent enough to not make obvious scum slips. And that it's only town (who naturally don't feel a sense of worry or guilt as much as mafia) to post more freely and make these "slips" you are even accusing me of.
3) My post on Calgar was to state I support his lynch. I however didn't follow it with a vote as their were already votes on him (I'll explain in next sentences). My reasoning for this was it was early in the day, and I wanted to see who came out of the woodwork to defend Calgar. For example, I was looking to see if a lurker came out to defend him with some off the wall case, or if someone else really tried pushing for someone else. The reason I didn't vote for him immediately was I didn't want it to seem that it was impossible to save him. If that was the case than a lurker who is mafia might not risk the exposure to save someone who is already likely to be lynched.
4) As far as "setting" stuff up goes. I wanted to make it clear that I am suspicious of you and that I was going for a Harry lynch not because I fully believe in the case against him, but because I think it'll shed light on the most active players in this game. Namely you. If he flipped town I was going to make a case on you D3 if you ended up as a "confirmed jailer" and yet STILL alive after N2. That was the point I was trying to make. I wasn't setting myself up to "look good" or trying to kill a confirmed townie. I was just saying that if you lead the lynch on a townie, you should be held at least somewhat accountable. And IF you survived N2 as a confirmed town / jailer, it'd make me VERY suspicious if that is your actual alignment.
I hope this is satisfactory. But I'm up for follow up questions or anything else.
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1: You're not a prolific poster, as you state yourself, so it's rather out of character to be trying to coach people, and it looks much more like making "safe" posts to try and buy town credit.
2: You're not a prolific poster, you say And that it's only town (who naturally don't feel a sense of worry or guilt as much as mafia) to post more freely and make these "slips" you are even accusing me of.
Except again, you're not posting that freely. Until just now, you've been fairly careful and cagey, hiding behind safe blanket statement things like outlined in the first portion. Everyone makes slips, and you're going into hypothetical "Scum me would be smarter than townie me" territory. Factor in that you're calling me scummy based on play that that quote of you calls a town trait... yeah, that sounds scummy to me.
3: You were ignoring the case, and instead suggesting lynching for information. That sounds scummy no matter how you cut it. You didn't care about the details either way, but you were fine with the notion of a bandwagon happening under someone else's guidance "for information".
4: You're suspicious of me for playing in what you called a town manner in your own defense, and trying to say things in advance of the flip that will make me look bad if he flips green, and you would look good, because you said those things. The townie play would be to try to defend him if you think my case is so terrible, not to allow him to be mislynched for information without the slightest attempt at defense. The only rationale for the way you played it is if you already have info on how Harry will flip, and want to set the stage to make me look bad, and you good, to secure a mislynch on me tomorrow.
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EPT
