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1 & 2) I think posting that "Hey I think the guy you think is confirmed town/ jailer could actually be scum if he lives to D3" qualifies as "posting pretty freely".
3) I was not ignoring the case or suggesting to lynch for information. Did you just read my explanation? I was trying to get someone to come out from being a lurker and defend him, possibly netting us two Mafia if Calgar went on to be lynched. I even gave you my reason as to why I didn't throw my vote on Calgar that early.
4) How would that make me look good? I'm not trying to take over the game here, you're the one that's in control since D1 are you not? All I was doing was telling straight to YOU that I think you could be scum depending on how today and tonight turns out. Don't you agree that if you live past tonight it will be seen as suspicious? I never said I was for lynching Harry for information, I said I can settle on that case because it will tell me something about you (especially if you live to D3). What part about that don't you get?
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On July 21 2012 04:54 calgar wrote:
Ok, I’ll be switching my vote to drwiggl3s here.
I also want to propose a temporary solution to iamperfection. I may have been reading his actions on the wrong side of the coin. I’ve said in my previous posts that it boiled down to whether he was mafia or confused townie. At the time we didn’t have anything better to go off of so I considered it to be our best vote in order to maximize the % of killing mafia. What he’s said recently in his vote on YourHarry made me change my mind. His defense of YourHarry shows his reluctance to put the vote there, so he shouldn’t have any trouble changing to match with jingle again.
Anyways, what made me doubt my strong stance previously has a lot to do with the flurry of posting last night and today. YourHarry seems to have been pressured into making several revealing plays. Drwiggl3s has positioned himself to look good after the lynch. We can evaluate these more closely, soon. When iamperfection said that his best town read was jingle I understood about him following jingle’s vote. I’ve been sort of doing the same with hapa. Now, to ‘prove’ his townie-ness, let’s get him to agree to vote with jingle every vote. He says he believes jingle is essentially 100% town so he’s going to follow him. As long as he does so, then we have his vote with the town side no matter what his role is. He shouldn’t have any problem agreeing to this since he has said he wants to follow jingle’s vote. We can use this as a temporary stall to eliminate him from our suspects pool and try to root out member #2 after drwiggl3s. As long as he is voting with us, he is a temporary ally.
##Unvote
##Vote drwiggl3s
I cant agree with that. That would be the same thing as saying jingle cant be wrong. I agree with his current view but i will stand up and say something if i think its wrong. Even though you may have seen my previous posts as scummy i will try to contiue to posts reads and contribute to disccussion if i feel like i can help. Sure have i been attacked a couple time and not answerd question as well as i would yes. Im still going to play the game.
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Can anyone else comment or respond to the case that's been made on me.
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On July 21 2012 05:39 drwiggl3s wrote:
1 & 2) I think posting that "Hey I think the guy you think is confirmed town/ jailer could actually be scum if he lives to D3" qualifies as "posting pretty freely".
I don't, it falls into what I've said about obvious attempts to set a trap for me.
3) I was not ignoring the case or suggesting to lynch for information. Did you just read my explanation? I was trying to get someone to come out from being a lurker and defend him, possibly netting us two Mafia if Calgar went on to be lynched. I even gave you my reason as to why I didn't throw my vote on Calgar that early.
And let me guess, someone wrote "gullible" on the ceiling?
4) How would that make me look good? I'm not trying to take over the game here, you're the one that's in control since D1 are you not? All I was doing was telling straight to YOU that I think you could be scum depending on how today and tonight turns out. Don't you agree that if you live past tonight it will be seen as suspicious? I never said I was for lynching Harry for information, I said I can settle on that case because it will tell me something about you (especially if you live to D3). What part about that don't you get?
You shouldn't be trying to tell me I'm scum. You should be trying to tell the town. And you do that by waiting to see proof of scumminess, not by trying to establish it prior to something. The implication that you have foreknowledge of a flip suggests you're scum.
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1) I'm not trying to set a trap for you. The whole reason for me telling you this out right was to see your reaction and to see how confident you actually were with your read on Harry. It can be said that your decision to vote switch to me was because of my "apparent sudden scuminess", or self preservation. Trying to discredit me or get me lynched as scum just like your trying to lynch Harry for actually speaking up against you and being honest about suspicions I'm sure others must have against you.
2) How was my posting on Calgar not at the very worst a good try to get more mafia to come out? Was this post any worse than your stupid "bread crumbing"? It was an honest attempt to scum hunt. And no, it wasn't "gullible". You yourself didn't even realise my intention behind posting that until I explained it to you. All you seem to know to jump on is scum "slips" or threats against yourself. You aren't actually participating in scum hunting that isn't full blown and throwing huge piles of WIFOM at each other.
3) I made it clear that I will make the case and tell the town if D3 should come and you're still alive and Harry is flipped as green. I wasn't implying I had knowledge you don't. I wasn't even posting when you weren't there. I posted straight after you did to say directly to you that I'm suspicious of you. And your reaction was to vote for me DESPITE having "95%" FOR SURE case against Harry. I wanted to gauge your reaction (one of self preservation), and it has given me more proof that if you live past the night, that you're actually scum and playing us all for fools.
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@wiggles it is dodgy that you basically said "fine I will go with this lynch BUT if he flips town jingle we should lynch you".
As jingle said its like you're trying to close the deal on the lunch and setup jingle for when he flips town.
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Whether you want to lynch Harry, or you lynch me, at least now it'll give us good information against you if and when one of us flips town.
- I say if because I'm not totally sure if Harry is Mafia or not. If he is, you're town in my books. If he's not, you COULD be scum. And if he's not scum AND you live to D3 without a hit placed on you, than I'll think you are probably scum and I'll make a case on you D3.
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I didn't say we should lynch him. I said I'll be making a case on him D3 (should he live till then).
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On July 21 2012 05:55 drwiggl3s wrote:
1) I'm not trying to set a trap for you. The whole reason for me telling you this out right was to see your reaction and to see how confident you actually were with your read on Harry. It can be said that your decision to vote switch to me was because of my "apparent sudden scuminess", or self preservation. Trying to discredit me or get me lynched as scum just like your trying to lynch Harry for actually speaking up against you and being honest about suspicions I'm sure others must have against you.
Remember my "Shades of gray" post earlier? Guess what, things change, especially when new information comes to light in the form of a lurker rearing their head to make dodgy posts.
2) How was my posting on Calgar not at the very worst a good try to get more mafia to come out? Was this post any worse than your stupid "bread crumbing"? It was an honest attempt to scum hunt. And no, it wasn't "gullible". You yourself didn't even realise my intention behind posting that until I explained it to you. All you seem to know to jump on is scum "slips" or threats against yourself. You aren't actually participating in scum hunting that isn't full blown and throwing huge piles of WIFOM at each other.
I refuse to buy this. You might be able to convince me you're into active scum hunting if you weren't attacking me for active scum hunting.
3) I made it clear that I will make the case and tell the town if D3 should come and you're still alive and Harry is flipped as green. I wasn't implying I had knowledge you don't. I wasn't even posting when you weren't there. I posted straight after you did to say directly to you that I'm suspicious of you. And your reaction was to vote for me DESPITE having "95%" FOR SURE case against Harry. I wanted to gauge your reaction (one of self preservation), and it has given me more proof that if you live past the night, that you're actually scum and playing us all for fools.
I'm quite confident that if you flip green, your wish to see me flipped will come true, you can just serve as the test instead of harry. Isn't that altruistic of you?
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Any other comments? Last game I was in I was lynched for saying something supposedly scummy, and I wasn't there to defend myself before the deadline. I'm glad I'm here this time to try to settle this so if any one has anything else to say or whatever please say it.
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Well yes I said I'm fine lynching either me or Harry. But I said I'd rather we go with Harry who I know may or may not be actual scum, than myself who I know is town.
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On July 21 2012 06:06 drwiggl3s wrote:
Well yes I said I'm fine lynching either me or Harry. But I said I'd rather we go with Harry who I know may or may not be actual scum, than myself who I know is town.
Well, if your primary intent is to use a sacrifice to somehow prove I'm scum, use yourself. It's only polite. And the best test of whether I'm really scum hunting or not. After all, if me shifting to you is only a self preservation instinct, and harry might be scum, and you're so definitely town (according to you) then a harry lynch (led by me) might actually just let me mislead everybody. After all, hypothetical scum me could just be throwing Harry to the wolves to earn sufficient town credit to win the game! That, plus my (clearly faked) JK claim could add up to some brilliant strategy with at least as many layers as an ogre.
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Did I sufficiently summarize your... plan... for dragging my apparently obvious scum motives that go against everything you've said hypothetical scum would do?
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Now you're just throwing WIFOM around. I made it clear why I said what I said and I responded to your criticisms about all my posts this game (seems like you always know how to pull those scum reads out of thin air).
I'd like to hear if anyone else has something to say.
I will use myself if necessary but I'm sure if I'm not there you will blow off me being lynched as something along the lines of.. "oh come on guys, it was an obvious scum slip. If you were in my shoes you would have called him on it to."
In the scenario where you ARE jailer and die at night tonight, I'd at least have us try to lynch actual mafia scum and not just settle for myself being lynched as a townie to prove a point. For all I know mafia already have you marked for hit tonight and if I die and you die then by D3 not only is Harry still alive but we have no good information.
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You responded, but I told you why the responses were bullshit.
The only WIFOM I'm throwing around is YOUR WIFOM that you're trying to use against me. I'm just trying to summarize it.
And if you flip green, I WANT people to lynch me to get me out of the town's way, wiggles, so no need to worry about that.
You still seem very worried about lynching for info, by the way, which is still scummy as all fuck.
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I am not throwing ANY WIFOM at you Jingle. I was stating my thoughts and why I did what I did. I haven't even made a case against you at this point as I said I wouldn't until we see what happens past the night.
The only theoretical content I mentioned was this
In the scenario where you ARE jailer and die at night tonight, I'd at least have us try to lynch actual mafia scum and not just settle for myself being lynched as a townie to prove a point. For all I know mafia already have you marked for hit tonight and if I die and you die then by D3 not only is Harry still alive but we have no good information.
"Lynch for info"? did you not say you were 95% sure that Harry is scum? I want to kill scum. Self lynching myself would just be purely for information that you may or may not dissuade the town into ignoring.
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yeah definitely that simple lol
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When a bandwagon is launched and landed, and the town is silent.. mafia are sitting back laughing as another town is lynched.
Can anyone say something else? I don't think arguing with the person who I've told I may be pushing for D3 makes sense.
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Wiggles
Scenario - If Harry is town, jingle is jailor and you are scum.
It would make perfect sense for you to
- lynch Harry
- NOT kill jingle at night go for someone else
- Say he must be lying about role as jk next day as scum would have killed the jk obviously and get him lynched
Would that not be a perfect plan? By the way you acted?
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On July 21 2012 06:20 drwiggl3s wrote:I am not throwing ANY WIFOM at you Jingle. I was stating my thoughts and why I did what I did. I haven't even made a case against you at this point as I said I wouldn't until we see what happens past the night. The only theoretical content I mentioned was this Show nested quote +
In the scenario where you ARE jailer and die at night tonight, I'd at least have us try to lynch actual mafia scum and not just settle for myself being lynched as a townie to prove a point. For all I know mafia already have you marked for hit tonight and if I die and you die then by D3 not only is Harry still alive but we have no good information.
"Lynch for info"? did you not say you were 95% sure that Harry is scum? I want to kill scum. Self lynching myself would just be purely for information that you may or may not dissuade the town into ignoring.
This is heavy WIFOM.
On July 21 2012 05:23 drwiggl3s wrote:
. And IF you survived N2 as a confirmed town / jailer, it'd make me VERY suspicious if that is your actual alignment.
At least, considering that you were apparently very convinced I could be right about Harry. And again, if you weren't, you should be presenting evidence on his behalf. Not trying to change how someone looks after the lynch.
On July 21 2012 02:44 drwiggl3s wrote:
So basically your saying no real information comes out of a YourHarry lynch. We're shooting for a mafia and if we miss we're back to square one?
Talking about lynching for info like it should be a priority over lynching for red.
On July 20 2012 03:34 drwiggl3s wrote:
For my reads right now, I wouldn't mind testing the waters with a Calgar lynch. Getting one of the major players out of the way and see what he flips. This could tell us a lot about iamperfection as well as others who are resistant (or soft defending) a Calgar lynch.
No matter how you dress it up, this is suggesting lynching for info...
And, of course, I'm pretty sure that each time you respond, more chunks of my original case against you disappear from what you're responding to. Without me or anyone else sounding even slightly convinced.
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EPT
