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On July 21 2012 02:08 JingleHell wrote:
Are you actually WIFOMing yourself?
All following quotes made by Jingle:
Says everything in mafia is WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler +A lot of people seem to dislike this, but I think they're forgetting that evidence is either hearsay, circumstantial, or based in WIFOM, every single time
And again
+ Show Spoiler +Show me a mafia case that isn't based on WIFOM. I dare you. Every single mafia case can be turned into WIFOM, literally.
And I don't know how he does not keep track of things he says, because:
+ Show Spoiler +So your entire explanation for your play is based on WIFOM logic, applied by you, to you... right. Someone else want to do this guy? I'm going to bed. And I've seen enough filters for tonight.
But while EVERYTHING is WIFOM, I guess somethings are "Heavy" WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler + It's heavy WIFOM, but it was a mediocre effort, and too little too late. Certainly not enough to make him look clean to me.
or "Useless" WIFOM:
+ Show Spoiler +Like I said, you're taking us into useless WIFOM arguments here, but unless a situation is clutch, scum should be trying to avoid linking their fates like that.
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Applying WIFOM to yourself is about as good of evidence as roleclaiming VT. Rock solid, that shit.
"Heavy" WIFOM is when there's so much of it that you need a fucking flowchart to keep track of the argument, like everything you say.
"Useless" WIFOM is when you're in a position where an argument involves both parties arguing circular WIFOM back and forth at each other.
And everything in Mafia being WIFOM merely refers to the fact that you can make a WIFOM case in any direction you want based off of literally everything said in a mafia game.
Not to mention that you're actually not even pretending to take either of those bits in context of themselves, let alone the thread as a whole at the time.
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And he often dismisses things just by saying "It's just WIFOM" while he admits that everything is WIFOM. So if everything is WIFOM but one can dismiss an argument for being WIFOM, the logical conclusion is that everything can be dismissed in mafia.
But I digress. Please read my accusation on calgar. I do not understand that no one else thinks calgar is scum.
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Scum reads are shades of gray. Right now, you're chilling at about 0, 0, 0, 255. Calgar's worst was nowhere near that point, and he talked himself down from his worst level of scumminess.
Trying to make it a black and white thing is also scum behavior.
The so called circular logic of calling things WIFOM and dismissing things as WIFOM involves CONTEXT. For reference, to be sure you understand this word, please include a definition from an English dictionary at some point. And then start using context in this stand up comedy routine you call a case.
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On July 21 2012 02:26 JingleHell wrote:
Applying WIFOM to yourself is about as good of evidence as roleclaiming VT. Rock solid, that shit.
"Heavy" WIFOM is when there's so much of it that you need a fucking flowchart to keep track of the argument, like everything you say.
"Useless" WIFOM is when you're in a position where an argument involves both parties arguing circular WIFOM back and forth at each other.
And everything in Mafia being WIFOM merely refers to the fact that you can make a WIFOM case in any direction you want based off of literally everything said in a mafia game.
Not to mention that you're actually not even pretending to take either of those bits in context of themselves, let alone the thread as a whole at the time.
Wrong, because here is where you SIMPLY DISMISS AN ARGUMENT FOR BEING WIFOM:
JingleHell says:
Frankly, you can't trust WIFOM on it's own, and that's exactly why you're saying he's not scum.
But everything is WIFOM, there is nothing other than WIFOM. So there is nothing to trust?
And here is Jingle dismissing Hapha's accusation, simply saying it's WIFOM
JingleHell says:
Haven't I already commented on the pile of WIFOM you're trying to feed me?
Again, I should not spend more time into arguing regarding this, because I do think that townies are also capable of making this kind of contradiction. Thus, your incapacity to keep track of things you say is NOT the reason why I am suspicious of you, though maybe it should add to it.
Today, Calgar. But it's beginning to look very hopeless for me.
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Jingle since your leading this I want to ask you a question.
If YourHarry flips scum, what information do you think we will gain from that conclusion?
What if YourHarry flips town. What will be your opinion on Calgar, Hap, et all?
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You have yet to provide context. I assume because you're playing kamikaze scum.
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Again, I should not spend more time into arguing regarding this, because I do think that townies are also capable of making this kind of contradiction. Thus, your incapacity to keep track of things you say is NOT the reason why I am suspicious of you, though maybe it should add to it.
Today, Calgar. But it's beginning to look very hopeless for me. The fact that you're suspicious of him is suspicious to me. He's done more to promote discussion than anyone else. He's basically always in the thread pouncing on someone or pushing a case. How do you get more town than that?
Explain to me why you would ask someone to claim jailer. I don't see any reason that isn't heavily outweighed by town revealing a blue. So your argument about "not wanting to reveal blues" goes directly against you asking jailer to claim.
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On July 21 2012 02:35 drwiggl3s wrote:
Jingle since your leading this I want to ask you a question.
If YourHarry flips scum, what information do you think we will gain from that conclusion?
What if YourHarry flips town. What will be your opinion on Calgar, Hap, et all?
If YourHarry flips scum, I'm kind of hoping the rest of the scumteam will surrender out of gratitude at not having him in the QT anymore.
If YourHarry flips town, my opinion on everyone will require significant re-analysis. However, I've actually decided that if the scumteam includes both Hapa and Calgar, the town has already lost due to the number of inactive players.
I'll try to have some concise stuff written up during the night since the odds of me making it to the morning are slim, unless there's a medic around.
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On July 21 2012 02:38 JingleHell wrote:I'll try to have some concise stuff written up during the night since the odds of me making it to the morning are slim, unless there's a medic around. It's risky for mafia to hit you though because if there is a doctor then the NK will be guaranteed to be a waste.
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So basically your saying no real information comes out of a YourHarry lynch. We're shooting for a mafia and if we miss we're back to square one?
I'm just asking because I'm trying to link things together. Trying to see what we can pull out of this lynch should it be successful or not.. And I can't really see anything.
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Seriously, though, I don't think we gain much info from a YourHarry scum flip, but it does put us further from LYLO, so it's still a good thing.
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Well, I can think of a few ways to gain info from a Harry lynch, but since we're in a position where that info can be denied to us if we share it before he flips, it would be stupid to reveal them.
Once the info is revealed, not sharing it would be bad, but revealing what I plan to look at in advance would be ridiculous.
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All right Jingle. My emotions got the best of me. I do not have any beef with you, not today I take back personal accusations of you.
Despite you not liking the way I play, please try to see the points that I am making. I would not make sense to go after you, head on, if I am scum. I would not make sense for me to openly change my votes without reason.
If you do not like calgar lynch, who I am still quite sure about, we can talk about lynching hopeless1. I know we have not been talking about him, but he is the next person on the list.
Hopeless has been very quiet, actively hiding behind other people's read, passively lurking. In particular his last post makes me suspicious:
On July 21 2012 00:07 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 23:04 calgar wrote:
@hopeless
You said you wanted me to make a case. What is your read now that you have read my huge explanation? I've read through the responses you have and the biggest thing is you got Jingle to move his vote off you. At present, I am still reading into the case on YourHarry as I have yet to go through his filter. For who I'd want to lynch, coming after you is probably not going to happen until after iamperfection at this point in time since Hapah and Jingle seem to agree that you aren't the scummiest read right now. Your tone has drastically changed and you are significantly less argumentative. As usual, this can be spun to look like scummy behavior, as with anything else. I initially found the timing of your breadcrumb and then calling Jingle out for his own breadcrumb a little off - Why reveal we have a blue role? - But since the mod clarified that you never even received a roleblock PM, this looks much better in your favor as his actions could have looked suspicious from your end. I'm satisfied that you've maintained a stance that iamperfection is your strongest scumread. To be honest, I still have my suspicions that you're both scum and are bussing one another, but iamperfection has a more obvious scum feel to his filter, by which I mean he contributes very little to town. I need to complete reading up on the case on YourHarry before I decide if I want to try to defend him in order to get iamperfection lynched today. Calgar, you're off the hook for now in my book.
He does not say anything about my case on calgar, but is going to "read" the case against me to later come back on maybe vote for me if doing so would make a difference in mislynching me. Rest of the post is a fluff. I can try to find more scummy posts from Hopeless1. Give me some time. I really need to go to work.
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Please, go to work. We don't mind, we promise.
If hopeless is scummy for being a sheep, then what does that make you for being a chaotic sheep who seems to mainly care about instigating and maintaining drama, whose main defense was to attack Calgar, and who roleclaimed VT and said he hoped he was miller?
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I've already said this, but let me make it more clear. Even if I didn't read you as about 95% likely to flip scum, I'd STILL be interested in lynching you just to get rid of your clutter.
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Its d2. We should have enough to go on to lynch for mafia scum not just for the sake of getting rid of clutter.
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On July 21 2012 03:00 drwiggl3s wrote:
Its d2. We should have enough to go on to lynch for mafia scum not just for the sake of getting rid of clutter.
No shit, thus the whole being 95% certain he's scum. Trying to take a tiny fraction of a snarky comment out of context to cast doubt on my case, plus trying to find out what sort of information we can get based on voting patterns, plus lurking like a mofo...
Hi, D3.
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Well I hope your right on this Jingle. For your sake.. being 95% sure and all. Being the person who's mostly been controlling this game, I really hope your right.
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On July 21 2012 03:27 drwiggl3s wrote:
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Well I hope your right on this Jingle. For your sake.. being 95% sure and all. Being the person who's mostly been controlling this game, I really hope your right.
Why don't you go read the case and decide for yourself? I mean, unless it's going to interfere with all those productive posts of yours.
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EPT
