EPTThe main problem with d3 was that me and risen spent too much time arguing with each other over something stupid. I dunno why I let myself get dragged into that kind of situation repeatedly, but I'll try to work on it. Had that not happened, I feel like I would have spent more time making my case against Matt instead of tunneling Risen so much.
I Can't Believe it's not Themed MiniMafia - Page 91
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
The main problem with d3 was that me and risen spent too much time arguing with each other over something stupid. I dunno why I let myself get dragged into that kind of situation repeatedly, but I'll try to work on it. Had that not happened, I feel like I would have spent more time making my case against Matt instead of tunneling Risen so much. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
I still think town did (comparatively) a pretty good job here overall, considering the town play I see in other games around here (LVI comes to mind). Much love to my newbie brethren <3 | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
At least when you calm down a little bit  I seriously don't think I played as bad as you said  Hell I was so proud of myself that I had my scumread on talis correct by D2 and my scumread on Mattchew correct by D3 I didn't really care about Dropbear in D3 to be honest, I just desperately wanted to stay alive and lynch Mattchew, so I may have spouted senseless stuff that I didn't even read (like flip-flopping on Milton, etc) and not really focused on finding the remaining scum. Other than on D1 I didn't even "tunneled" any townie or disrupted the thread like I used to do as town, I dunno why you think I played so shitty wbg. I derped with the setup, but if people ignore what I say about the setup then it's not that big of a deal. Plus there's no scum motivation at all to derp about the setup (seriously, there isn't), specially if it's not to "justify posting" since I already had pages and pages of posts, I didn't need to "post" about the setup to "appear I was contributing" or something. Also I think I played well on D3, at least with everybody FoSing me and not listening to me at all (again, other than the setup derps). I still want someone to tell me why my play on D2 regarding talis was so scummy...? Hell if anything I was the first one to put suspicion on him (on N1) so I didn't really get it. I thought getting correct reads on S&B, austin, Mattchew, Risen and Keirathi was more important at that time, since (like I said) I didn't think I'd change my mind about talis. I still stand that even if Risen's cop claim was "bad", if one read his filter and analyzed his play correctly you could figure out he wasn't scum, specially after Mattchew flipped scum (for that reason I posted earlier). At all his "bad" cop claim kind of cleared him in my eyes even more if he hadn't made that claim (but well maybe that was just me). | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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DropBear
Australia4353 Posts
I don't think we played very well. I was unable to communicate with my teammates much due to the time zones and was weak day 1. I think we had a great chance until Mattchew went down, which was very unlucky. The way in which he went down left me with nowhere to turn. I didn't use the RB day 1, wasn't sure who to use it on. We used it on Milton cos we thought he might have been a cop due to this post. My initial post about being concise still stands. Gonzaw posted too much and too long, whereas someone like austin was much better. In my opinion the best town players were austin and solstice. For the record, I sent in a solstice shot tonight before surrendering. I think Milton also had 3 of 4 reads on day 1 from memory? Bugs while I do think we played badly, you are overdoing it a bit. | ||
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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DropBear
Australia4353 Posts
On July 21 2012 15:13 Risen wrote: Yup, as I said a tali lynch hit you guys hard. Then hitting matt was pure dumb luck and if I'm being entirely honest i was pushing the lines when it comes to trolling with that vote change to matt. I knew he'd rage if he ended up being scum bc it was like... The dumbest late day wagon I think I've seen with exception to johnnywup's blunder (i will love johnny forever <3) Tali didn't expect his day 1 case on me to go as well as it did either, I did play poorly though. We weren't too worried about the tali lynch though, I think we would have had this in the bag if the wagon on Matt hadn't happened in the way it did. We would have shot solstice, rb'd you and still had all the gonzaw v matt silliness wrecking the thread. Day 3 was such a clusterfuck that we had so much to work with but sadly everything aligned against us last minute. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
On July 21 2012 15:25 Keirathi wrote: I still maintain that a lot (almost all?) of the clusterfuck would have been avoided without the cop claim, and it still would have come down to gonzaw vs matt. I think a lot of the clusterfuck could have been avoided with a mason claim. I thought for sure it was scib until he didn't claim it and then I thought he might be scum so I used my n3 check on him (didn't end up mattering). THREE FOR THREE ON NIGHT CHECKS THO YEEE (this is bad...) | ||
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Miltonkram
United States310 Posts
Thanks for pointing that out. There are a few things that I really dislike about my play this game though. I feel like I wasn't confident enough in the reads that I made and that I was talked out of them too easily. I'm really glad I listened to s0Lstice near the end of D3, but I should have done it sooner and more thoroughly looked into the case against Mattchew. It's fairly lucky that I was able to get my tunnel vision off of gonzaw for long enough to give the case on Mattchew some thought. I'll take my lumps and improve as best I can. Thanks for hosting NSH! | ||
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Vivax
21978 Posts
In the end people weren't convinced of your town status despite the massive posting. And the high amount to read just makes you look pretty intransparent. You offered a lot of opportunities where something of the tons you said would click scum for someone reading it. I know the issue myself since I hate to wait for more replies when there's so much one could write about :/. My favourite poster this game was s0lstice. Risen was pretty weird, but it turned out for the best. Town just won this game cause no queens. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 21 2012 11:58 gonzaw wrote: I derped with the setup, but if people ignore what I say about the setup then it's not that big of a deal. Plus there's no scum motivation at all to derp about the setup (seriously, there isn't), specially if it's not to "justify posting" since I already had pages and pages of posts, I didn't need to "post" about the setup to "appear I was contributing" or something. Scum motivation is that you shit up the thread just take the time to read you already post a lot/lengthily, so if some of it is retarded setup stuff which you could just read already then people are less inclined to believe the rest of your shit. if you can't employ basic reading and comprehension skills re: setup, why would people listen to your reads?? | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
My example will be this post: On July 13 2012 05:15 gonzaw wrote: Disclamer: This is the "list" of scummy guys I'm not that comfortable lynching and I'd like people's opinions on them (I think it's likely there is at least 1 scum in here...hell maybe all are scum >_>) About DropBear: I already posted what I think of him: + Show Spoiler [Thoughts on DropBear] + On July 13 2012 04:27 gonzaw wrote: The thing is his behaviour struck me as odd, and I wanted to "get the ball rolling" to see what happened.. Apparently nobody even commented on it, which was what I was expecting to. I was not confident in Dropbear being scum, but I got a feeling he could. Him later just discrediting my FoS, and general aggressiveness doesn't make me very comfortable FoSing him, since it's always more likely townies that do such thing; although I'm still wary of him buddying up to marv there and jumping on the Vivax bandwagon. *sigh* However that's not decisive evidence, yet he's still one of my candidates for scum. I'll reread some stuff and respond to other stuff later (just want to have the unvote right now so I don't have a vote and another one later, and so this post isn't huge) ##Unvote: DropBear About Risen: I already posted why this was weird. He came out of nowhere just to defend himself against me, but doesn't say anything at all about it, just posted a very apparent tautology without saying anything. Another thing I found weird was: He voted Vivax (I assume) because he didn't state why he voted S&B all of a sudden. However, in that 2nd post of his, Vivax already had 2 votes (marv+Dropbear) and Vivax already explained why he voted/unvoted S&B.....yet he doesn't comment anything about it. If he's town, he knows his vote is the most important thing he has (unless he's Awesome Vigilante with Homing Heat-seeking missiles that 100% target scum), so one would think he'd pay attention to things regarding the guy he's voting. Him softly-accusing Dropbear without actually taking a stance in the subject here: And his seemingly apologetic post here (that again is just an excuse for him not to do anything) Make me suspicious of him However, his "kind" attitude and way he's posting make me wary. Like, the way he posts is very weird and would certainly call people's attention....but isn't it too obvious perhaps? Like, it seems he doesn't really care how people see him, which doesn't make me that confident in thinking he's scum. But meh, I'd appreciate people's thoughts on him About Milkton: This post seems fluffy as fuck, specially the 1st part. The "list of game I've played" is filler as well, it doesn't add anything else to the game Even after posting that he doesn't do anything later (is he still "busy" or something?) However it's his first fucking post so it's not like we can get a meaningful read out of it Well fuck, another wall of text So....I'll try to keep things a little bit separate and post my actual "scum reads" in the next post (it's just S&B+austin+Keirathi anyways....yeah SPOILERS whatever). The portion on Risen, you cite some posts and explain how you think they are weird. As I'm reading along, I'm processing your indictment of him, matching it to my own thoughts. Then I get to the bolded portion, and I see you don't really have any convictions on this at all. I had a lot of problems with this posting style...it's like a stream of consciousness. You open the brain valve and spill a bunch of stuff out and then turn it off X minutes later and hit post. The result is you present a lot of ideas, many of which you counter by yourself, finished off by a conclusion that has lost all meaning because it has no foundation to stand on. That back and forth you do with yourself needs to happen in your head. You need to arrive at a single endpoint prior to posting, and present evidence that supports it. If you can't do this, then you probably shouldn't be writing a wall of text on this player at this time. The more I saw you doing this, the more I wanted to tune you out. I really had to force myself to grind through your stuff to find where you stood on things. I seriously love your effort though...if you could find a way that works for you to narrow your posting down such that is concise and representative of your strongest convictions, then it would both make it easier for people to read you, and make it easier for town to get some use out of your best reads. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On July 21 2012 21:49 s0Lstice wrote: I'll chip in with my 2 cents gonzaw. My example will be this post: The portion on Risen, you cite some posts and explain how you think they are weird. As I'm reading along, I'm processing your indictment of him, matching it to my own thoughts. Then I get to the bolded portion, and I see you don't really have any convictions on this at all. I had a lot of problems with this posting style...it's like a stream of consciousness. You open the brain valve and spill a bunch of stuff out and then turn it off X minutes later and hit post. The result is you present a lot of ideas, many of which you counter by yourself, finished off by a conclusion that has lost all meaning because it has no foundation to stand on. That back and forth you do with yourself needs to happen in your head. You need to arrive at a single endpoint prior to posting, and present evidence that supports it. If you can't do this, then you probably shouldn't be writing a wall of text on this player at this time. The more I saw you doing this, the more I wanted to tune you out. I really had to force myself to grind through your stuff to find where you stood on things. I seriously love your effort though...if you could find a way that works for you to narrow your posting down such that is concise and representative of your strongest convictions, then it would both make it easier for people to read you, and make it easier for town to get some use out of your best reads. But that was on D1, why would anybody read my D1 reads if I changed them?  At that point I was trying to post whatever was in my mind to get some discussion going (i.e post some "suspicious" stuff some people have been doing to get people to notice them and make conclusions of their own). As I recall, nobody complained when I did that at the time >_> Because to be honest, the alternative was marv shitting on Vivax and solstice, and Mattchew shitting on sciberbia, which I didn't agree with at the time. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
Just pointing things out is not enough, you need to justify why those things were worth pointing out in the first place. You need to tie them together into some form of final interpretation. Taking a stance on something with sound reasoning and good word economy is a good way to get people to listen to you. People will continue to listen to you even if you change your mind, provided you can explain/it is clear why you are doing so. This is a lot better than presenting two conflicting lines of thought and coming out on the other side totally luke-warm. Posts like the one I highlighted on day 1 set the tone for how people are going to gauge what you have to say. If you are presenting big blocks of 'I don't know,' they may be inclined to read you until they have a town read they are reasonably sure of and then mostly tune you out, or worse, they will begin to suspect you. This is what I feel happened this game. Your posts remained lengthy, but you took firmer stances as the game went on. By that point though, people either thought you were scum, or thought this was more of the same. I'm no guru by any means, so take this with a grain of salt of course. Also I hope you don't view this as me trying to debase you  Hopefully some of my thoughts are constructive for you. I have plenty to learn from this game myself. | ||
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s0Lstice
United States1832 Posts
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ShiaoPi
TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5956 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On July 22 2012 01:02 s0Lstice wrote: You can't ask other players to make sense of your thoughts for you. That's your job. Just pointing things out is not enough, you need to justify why those things were worth pointing out in the first place. You need to tie them together into some form of final interpretation. Taking a stance on something with sound reasoning and good word economy is a good way to get people to listen to you. People will continue to listen to you even if you change your mind, provided you can explain/it is clear why you are doing so. This is a lot better than presenting two conflicting lines of thought and coming out on the other side totally luke-warm. Posts like the one I highlighted on day 1 set the tone for how people are going to gauge what you have to say. If you are presenting big blocks of 'I don't know,' they may be inclined to read you until they have a town read they are reasonably sure of and then mostly tune you out, or worse, they will begin to suspect you. This is what I feel happened this game. Your posts remained lengthy, but you took firmer stances as the game went on. By that point though, people either thought you were scum, or thought this was more of the same. I'm no guru by any means, so take this with a grain of salt of course. Also I hope you don't view this as me trying to debase you Hopefully some of my thoughts are constructive for you. I have plenty to learn from this game myself.This is mostly all correct. Day 1 is very important, just saying "why would people pay attention to my day 1 reads if I change them later" is not enough. People are going to read those posts on day 1, no? If they're bad or hard to read then what incentive do they have for reading your posts later? When I encounter players who do this in other games my natural response is to ignore them. I do the exact same thing with trolls, because people who post like that (an unobstructed and unfiltered flow of thoughts basically) aren't truly posting much that is useful in finding scum, and thus become unreadable. As solstice said, you have to be able to filter and pare down your own thoughts. You need to take stances instead of simply making a descriptive summary of events. | ||
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