|
On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes.
the only mistake you made was the mana thing which is a human error.
HEY EVERYONE (even super mad S&B) HOW ABOUT WE THANK ARTANIS FOR HOSTING AN AWESOME VERSION OF MAFIA THAT REQUIRED A TON OF MOD WORK
|
+ Show Spoiler [Hand Draws] +Fulla
You have drawn the following hand:
Reckless Abandon
Mountain
Onslaught
Mountain
Grim Lavamancer
Electropotence
Onslaught
For an optimal experience, I recommend loading your decklist up in MWS, then drawing these cards. You can save the decklist I last sent you in a notepad as a .MWDECK file, which will allow you to load it through Magic Workstation.
Draws:
Ball Lightning
Mountain
Chain Lightning
Bloodstained Mire
Reckless Abandon
Spark Elemental
GreYMisT
You have drawn the following hand:
Cultivate
Flooded Strand
Necrotic Sliver
Spined Sliver
Winged Sliver
Darkheart Sliver
Island
For an optimal experience, I recommend loading your decklist up in MWS, then drawing these cards. You can save the decklist I last sent you in a notepad as a .MWDECK file, which will allow you to load it through Magic Workstation.
Draws:
Polluted Delta
Mindlash Sliver
Mattchew
You have drawn the following hand:
Goblin Marshal
Mogg Fanatic
Goblin Warchief
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Warchief
Skirk Prospector
Mountain
For an optimal experience, I recommend loading your decklist up in MWS, then drawing these cards. You can save the decklist I last sent you in a notepad as a .MWDECK file, which will allow you to load it through Magic Workstation.
Draws:
Raging Goblin
Mountain
Goblin Warchief
Mountain
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Piledriver
Goblin Tunneler
Nova_Terra
You have drawn the following hand:
Forest
Giant Growth
Nimble Mongoose
Fauna Shaman
Basking Rootwalla
Forest
Fauna Shaman
For an optimal experience, I recommend loading your decklist up in MWS, then drawing these cards. You can save the decklist I last sent you in a notepad as a .MWDECK file, which will allow you to load it through Magic Workstation.
Draws:
Fauna Shaman
Verdant Catacombs
Brawn
Basking Rootwalla
Arrogant Wurm
Promethelax
You have drawn the following hand:
Plains
Goldmeadow Harrier
Commander Eesha
Plains
Mobilization
Plains
Captain of the Watch
For an optimal experience, I recommend loading your decklist up in MWS, then drawing these cards. You can save the decklist I last sent you in a notepad as a .MWDECK file, which will allow you to load it through Magic Workstation.
Draws:
Glorious Anthem
Field Marshal
Glorious Anthem
Honorable Scout
Plains
Longbow Archer
Strongandbig
You have drawn the following hand:
Festering Goblin
Nantuko Husk
Grave Pact
Swamp
Accursed Centaur
Khabal Ghoul
Swamp
For an optimal experience, I recommend loading your decklist up in MWS, then drawing these cards. You can save the decklist I last sent you in a notepad as a .MWDECK file, which will allow you to load it through Magic Workstation.
Draws:
Nantuko Husk
Dark Ritual
Oversold Cemetery
Accursed Centaur
Duress
Carnophage
Khabal Ghoul
WereBugs-Go
You have drawn the following hand:
Glimmervoid
Myr Servitor
Nuisance Engine
Hovermyr
Vault of Whispers
Æther Spellbomb
Icy Manipulator
For an optimal experience, I recommend loading your decklist up in MWS, then drawing these cards. You can save the decklist I last sent you in a notepad as a .MWDECK file, which will allow you to load it through Magic Workstation.
Draws:
Myr Enforcer
Skullclamp
Arcbound Ravager
Myr Matrix
Seat of the Synod
Æther spellbomb
Tree of Tales
Hovermyr
Myr Galvanizer
Zealos
You have drawn the following hand:
Crimson Kobolds
Vampiric Tutor
City of Brass
Phyrexian Walker
Ornithopter
Tendrils of Agony
Ornithopter
For an optimal experience, I recommend loading your decklist up in MWS, then drawing these cards. You can save the decklist I last sent you in a notepad as a .MWDECK file, which will allow you to load it through Magic Workstation.
Draws:
City of Brass
Kobolds of Kher Keep
Glimpse of Nature
Crookshank Kobolds
Sol Ring
Glimpse of Nature
Glimpse of Nature
Crimson Kobolds
Lotus Petal
Wheel of Fortune
Ornithopter
Demonic Tutor
Skullclamp
Kobold Taskmaster
City of Brass
Glimpse of Nature
Tendrils of Agony
Phyrexian Walker
Dark Ritual
Kobold Taskmaster
Thran Quarry
Ornithopter
Howling Mine
City of Brass
Crimson Kobolds
Thran Quarry
Crookshank Kobolds
Brainstorm
Thran Quarry
Kobolds of Kher Keep
Crimson Kobolds
Brainstorm
Crookshank Kobolds
Brainstorm
Kobolds of Kher Keep
Thran Quarry
Kobold Taskmaster
Fork
Howling Mine
Dark Ritual
Tendrils of Agony
Skullclamp
Kobold Taskmaster
Yawgmoth's Will
Crookshank Kobolds
Grapeshot
Skullclamp
Brainstorm
Phyrexian Walker
Skullclamp
Dark Ritual
Dark Ritual
Kobolds of Kher Keep
Oberyn
You have drawn the following hand:
Æther Spellbomb
Island
Clone
Island
Island
Steal Artifact
Chain of Vapor
For an optimal experience, I recommend loading your decklist up in MWS, then drawing these cards. You can save the decklist I last sent you in a notepad as a .MWDECK file, which will allow you to load it through Magic Workstation.
Draws:
Island
Echoing Truth
+ Show Spoiler [Deck Changes] +Changes made to decks:
Promethelax+Brother
Out: 2x Aurification, 2x Decree of Justice, 4x Windswept Heath, 1x Deftblade Elite
In: 2x Holy Day, 2x Honorable Scout, 4x Plains, 1x Kor Firewalker
Nova_Terra
Out: 2x Bramblesnap
In: 2x Avatar of Might
Strongandbig
Out: 4x Zombie Warchief, 1x Carnophage
In: 1x Grave Pact, 2x Khabal Ghoul, 2x Lord of the Undead
Toadesstern+Marvellosity - Hydra name WhereBugs-Go
Out: 2x Necrogen Spellbomb, 1x Arcbound Ravager, 2x Myr Superion
In: 2x Hover Myr, 1x Myr Galvanizer, 1x Myr Servitor, 1x Broodstar
GreYMisT+Brother
Out: 4x random Slivers I don't remember, 1x Metallic Sliver
In: 4x Gemhide Sliver, 1x Sliver Overlord
kitaman27+gonzaw
-2x annex
-2x disperse
+2x clone
+2x AEther Spellbomb
-1x Seal of Removal
-2x Vapor Snag
+3x island
Zealos
No Changes
Fulla
No Changes
Mattchew
No Changes
+ Show Spoiler [Wheel of Fortune+endgame draws] +Fulla:
Magma Jet
Keldon Marauders
Mountain
Ball Lightning
Browbeat
Mountain
Keldon Marauders
Mogg Fanatic
Spark Elemental
Mattchew:
Mountain
Goblin Sharpshooter
Mountain
Goblin Tunneler
Raging Goblin
Goblin Lackey
Mountain
Goblin Grenade
Mountain
Promethelax:
Plains
Field Marshal
Mobilization
Opal Caryatid
Deftblade Elite
Plains
Captain of the Watch
Honorable Scout
Glorious Anthem
Plains
Elite Inquisitor
Holy Day
Honorable Scout
WereBugs-Go
Icy Manipulator
Arcbound Ravager
Vault of Whispers
Blinkmoth Nexus
Seat of the Synod
Æther Spellbomb
Paradise Mantle
Tree of Tales
Paradise Mantle
Genesis Chamber
Tree of Tales
Myr Retriever
Skullclamp
Myr Servitor
Zealos:
Ornithopter
Demonic Tutor
Skullclamp
Kobold Taskmaster
City of Brass
Glimpse of Nature
Tendrils of Agony
Phyrexian Walker
Dark Ritual
Kobold Taskmaster
Thran Quarry
Ornithopter
Howling Mine
City of Brass
Crimson Kobolds
Thran Quarry
StrongAndBig
Dark Ritual
Swamp
Swamp
Duress
Soulless One
Festering Goblin
Khabal Ghoul
Grave Pact
Oversold Cemetery
Swamp
Gravecrawler
|
On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes.
I understand that this game is really hard to run; I think the setup is really cool and I'm happy you tried it.
But I hope you in turn understand why I'm unhappy that even after I figured out a way town could win despite retarding itself to death for a week, we still lost due to what I consider setup abuse combined with host mistakes.
It's really really frustrating.
Plus that when I refreshed the vote thread at 7:00 TL time there were no actions, so instead of writing "##attack mattchew" I went and wrote that other post in this thread.
FUCK it's frusturating to lose like that.
I LITERALLY REFRESHED THE THREAD AT 7:00 BUT THERE WAS NOTHING THERE.
|
On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes.
It were some hard calls to make. Giving town the 15 minutes extension is a no-go in mafia games and if you had done there would have been no way to win for mafia.
Without it there was no way to win for town at this point.
However, I don't think the win was something that occured because of the rule changes. Just check d1 and d2.
I totally fooled people and town was running in circles. From my point of view this would have been outragious if town had actually won this game. But as mentioned, that's just my point of view because I think we did really good early on while town basicly did nothing (that ended up being right) except for the very last cycle.
In the end I've got to say this was really funny and thanks for hosting although it probably was incredible hard to balance things and you had to make a couple of tough calls.
|
On July 10 2012 07:17 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. the only mistake you made was the mana thing which is a human error. HEY EVERYONE (even super mad S&B) HOW ABOUT WE THANK ARTANIS FOR HOSTING AN AWESOME VERSION OF MAFIA THAT REQUIRED A TON OF MOD WORK
I don't know why people are arguing against Artanis here, he did nothing wrong (just a little mistake anybody could have made.......I mean, it's not like he revealed the whole scum team in a Day post, right Mattchew?  ), and this game was awesome setup-wise.
Mattchew having 6-8 additional HP was not "game-changing" if town had done things right. Plus when he made the change there was quite time for people to react and shit.
Great game Artanis! 
..(at least setup-wise >_> <_< )
|
the host mistake did not impact our ability to win with a last minute switch.
|
On July 10 2012 07:17 gonzaw wrote:Nova, at least we can be relieved that Toad isn't insanely stupid .....too bad I can't be relieved in S&B being scum >_> (dude......wtf was up with your "cases" against Zealos and Greymist?)
lol yeah I was actually sitting in my room d2 thinking "okay fuck. Now they're going to summon those 8/8 creatures, np for us and I can get them attack the wrong guys easily but there's no way they'll think I'm that retarded after seeing grey flip"
Next day "weeeell, fuck we forgot to send a kill in... guess this goes really badly for us." and out of nowhere this wi-fom thing works perfect although we just honestly forgot to send a kill in LOL and again, after nova flipping "weeell, okay last time they bought the story but there's no way they'll think I'm that retarded after nova flipps, I'm screwed".
|
On July 10 2012 07:21 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:17 Mattchew wrote:On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. the only mistake you made was the mana thing which is a human error. HEY EVERYONE (even super mad S&B) HOW ABOUT WE THANK ARTANIS FOR HOSTING AN AWESOME VERSION OF MAFIA THAT REQUIRED A TON OF MOD WORK I don't know why people are arguing against Artanis here, he did nothing wrong (just a little mistake anybody could have made.......I mean, it's not like he revealed the whole scum team in a Day post, right Mattchew? ), and this game was awesome setup-wise. Mattchew having 6-8 additional HP was not "game-changing" if town had done things right. Plus when he made the change there was quite time for people to react and shit. Great game Artanis! ..(at least setup-wise >_> <_< )
It was game changing because Zealos and Fulla didn't even log in later than that because they thought we had everything worked out. Which we did, except for that change.
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK
FUCK YOU GONZAW AND FUCK YOU MATTCHEW
gonzaw for making this game about nothing but him for like the first week and basically killing town's chances to win
mattchew for intentionally playing shitty as town so he can get away with shit like this as scum
fuck me i need to stop posting in this thread right now. i'll be back with more fuck you's tomorrow.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
lol I love s&b sometimes
<3
|
On July 10 2012 07:19 strongandbig wrote:
Plus that when I refreshed the vote thread at 7:00 TL time there were no actions, so instead of writing "##attack mattchew" I went and wrote that other post in this thread.
FUCK it's frusturating to lose like that.
I LITERALLY REFRESHED THE THREAD AT 7:00 BUT THERE WAS NOTHING THERE.
theres 60 WHOLE seconds in a minute
|
On July 10 2012 07:24 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:21 gonzaw wrote:On July 10 2012 07:17 Mattchew wrote:On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. the only mistake you made was the mana thing which is a human error. HEY EVERYONE (even super mad S&B) HOW ABOUT WE THANK ARTANIS FOR HOSTING AN AWESOME VERSION OF MAFIA THAT REQUIRED A TON OF MOD WORK I don't know why people are arguing against Artanis here, he did nothing wrong (just a little mistake anybody could have made.......I mean, it's not like he revealed the whole scum team in a Day post, right Mattchew? ), and this game was awesome setup-wise. Mattchew having 6-8 additional HP was not "game-changing" if town had done things right. Plus when he made the change there was quite time for people to react and shit. Great game Artanis! ..(at least setup-wise >_> <_< ) It was game changing because Zealos and Fulla didn't even log in later than that because they thought we had everything worked out. Which we did, except for that change. FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK FUCK YOU GONZAW AND FUCK YOU MATTCHEW gonzaw for making this game about nothing but him for like the first week and basically killing town's chances to win mattchew for intentionally playing shitty as town so he can get away with shit like this as scum fuck me i need to stop posting in this thread right now. i'll be back with more fuck you's tomorrow.
where did i play intentionally shitty as town?
|
every game i've ever played or read with you where you were town
try your "night kill trap" in LV for example
|
But seriously people, there were some things that made me go "wtf?" and made me suspicious of everybody >_>
Prome: Why did you attack Zealos instead of WBG and put Zealos on "can be killed by mafia KP" threshold ? That seemed so much like pushing a "let's kill Zealos so he doesn't use his tendrils next turn" gambit as scum it wasn't funny
Fulla: What was up with instantly sheeping WBG ever since Nova died? Although I figured out you changing your reads so much had something to do with you being insecure and stuff so I figured out you were more likely town (basically when I read Prome's case)
Zealos: lol I figured you were town (well...mostly because Artanis implied so in the Obs QT >_> )....but where were you this last day? You were almost completely inactive in discussions and shit
Greymist: I'm disappointed that you "gave up" when we (or I) needed you the most to keep town in a good track and just decided to die without saying anything hoping we "follow your advice" and kill S&B later (which was actually wrong).
On July 04 2012 04:30 Oberyn wrote:
Dude don't scare me like that, it makes me think that maybe you are scum trying to get both 8/8 town beasts (from a town Nova and a townie me once you kill me tonight) dead by next turn so your team (that most likely may not include Grey) wins more easily >_>
On July 04 2012 04:32 Oberyn wrote:After a scum Wiggles tried to "convince me" to lynch prplhz instead of Palmar on iGrok's game I get more paranoid about people suddenly "urging" me to do something drastic out of a sudden
Why do scum always try to pull this shit on me >_>
Well people, the instant someone does this shit on me in a next game I'm instantly killing you, since apparently only scum do it
|
S&B:
gonzaw for making this game about nothing but him for like the first week and basically killing town's chances to win
wat
|
dude strongandbig in case the life-change would not have happend the plan was:
Matt kill fulla + s&b with everything
Toad attack with 2 hovermyrs vs Zealos. He has only 2 fliers (10/2, 0/2).
If he blocks with both Zealos is alive but Matt as well = Mafia win
If he's only blocking with one he is dead together with the mafia beast as is Matt = Mafia win
OR if s&b saccs stuff the other way around, still the same thing.
The only way to win for you guys was to kill both Matt and me today.
|
On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes.
In the future, send me a PM if I'm not a player. I'll help out as much as I can.
|
On July 10 2012 07:31 Qatol wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. In the future, send me a PM if I'm not a player. I'll help out as much as I can.
Thanks, I will.
To everyone:
I do plan on running another game like this in the future. What did you like about the game? What did you think about the board cards? What would you like to see changed? All input is welcome.
|
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
im swearing off themed games for a while. The rage when I lose due to setup (this, spacestation) or due to acrofales (holy roman) is just not worth the fun I get from playing with weird and interesting setups.
|
On July 10 2012 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:31 Qatol wrote:On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. In the future, send me a PM if I'm not a player. I'll help out as much as I can. Thanks, I will. To everyone:I do plan on running another game like this in the future. What did you like about the game? What did you think about the board cards? What would you like to see changed? All input is welcome.
I would play another game like this, it was a really cool setup and probably the only exception to what I just said above.
I think there was a lot learned about deck balance; the idea that "it shouldn't matter how strong your deck is" just didn't hold true. Some things are a lot stronger than others in this format (life gain, direct damage, combo decks)
maybe think about the mafia monster doing poison counters instead of normal damage
oh and how about don't tell players "you don't understand your deck" and then change the rules on them because you didn't understand their deck. That was pretty annoying. (yes i am mad but i also had fun so i'm trying to be constructive while still expressing how mad I am)
|
Fuck this, at one point I was talking to kita and I think I said that WBG+Mattchew was a very likely scum team because WBG was tunneling Greymist way too much and didn't actually made any scumhunting on his own other than attacking Grey; and Matt well because he was not doing shit.
But then Grey stopped doing anything, Zealos kept tunneling S&B, and Fulla kept doing weird "nooby" stuff and it changed all my reads.
But damn it was almost impossible for me to get a good read on people this game, dunno if it was mostly my fault (obviously part of it was my fault) or not, so before dying I basically had no reads whatsoever.
Grey: Why didn't you convince me to attack Mattchew instead of you? 
The fact that there weren't any flips whatsoever for the first few days didn't really help.
....also I'll try not to talk about the "Nova died in 10 minutes" thingy from D4....but I think everybody feels the same thing about it >_>
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
