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it would have helped if nova had done something other than sheep you and then wbg.
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On July 10 2012 07:38 strongandbig wrote:
oh and how about don't tell players "you don't understand your deck" and then change the rules on them because you didn't understand their deck. That was pretty annoying. (yes i am mad but i also had fun so i'm trying to be constructive while still expressing how mad I am)
I don't believe I ever said that to you. Did I? O_O
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On July 10 2012 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:31 Qatol wrote:On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. In the future, send me a PM if I'm not a player. I'll help out as much as I can. Thanks, I will. To everyone:I do plan on running another game like this in the future. What did you like about the game? What did you think about the board cards? What would you like to see changed? All input is welcome.
I think it's going to be incredible hard to balance either way.
Usually mafia games go like this:
Town starts strong but has no clue and grows weaker as people get killed but the reads get better every day
Mafia starts strong and grows weaker as people get killed (less KP).
In this game it was more like:
Town starts weak and and has no clue early one. Hoever they grow stronger ever cycle and the reads get better every day
Mafia starts weak and grows stronger as people get killed
The fact that usually town is "strong" when the game starts but in this game they ended up being incredible strong makes it really hard to balance. Let's forget about zealos deck, that shit was just imba. If he had attacked either matt or me with that move, there would not have been a way to win this game for mafia from the get-go.
Still everyone else ended up bein really strong and Matt and I got incredible lucky that we had an extremly strong board. Without the 2 hovermyrs it would have been a townwin.
With one goblin less it would have been a townwin.
I was actually raging at one point because I couldn't figure out how to deal 2 damage to zealos instead of just one and we could have used matt's goblin for that if we hadn't destroyed something else with that.
So from a mafia point of view I've got to say this was probably the hardest game I ever played. Seriously.
Yeah we won but it literally came down to a margin of 1 HP (if the change had not happened) and I think I played quite decent the first couple of cycles, making town completly cirpple themselves. It really was a lot of fun but it all comes down to the very last cycle and I don't see that changing with the style MTG games are played because you grow stronger every single cycle.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Thanks for hosting Artanis and ET!
Grats to scum team.
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On June 29 2012 23:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote:
Artanis, when you say that we can't use abilities during the block phase that sounds different than what you told me in PMs. If I can't sacrifice my creatures during the block phase it hurts my deck quite a lot. If a two hour block phase is too short for you to resolve creature abilities in what you think is a fair way, could we have a poll or something on going to a longer block phase?
It's not just my deck - basic abilities like regeneration and blue bounce-blocking would be completely annulled if creatures can't use abilities during the block phase.
Alternatively, what if we could set up our block phase actions during the attack phase? Make it so that you can't take back an action or attack during the attack phase, and then the other players can use creature abilities during the attack phase in response to other attack actions.
Additionally, I have a suggestion to solve the problem someone mentioned above about timing problems like not being able to use a creature ability if someone else ninjas you and plays a kill spell or whatever. What if you resolved all spells and abilities targeting creatures or cast by them in proper stack order at the end of the main phase? That way people could still play spells and abilities targetting each others' creatures without it coming down to a timing question.
I don't believe you understand your deck still if you think that not being able to sacrifice creatures during the block phase hurts your deck a lot. It's not because it's too short; it's to prevent "instants" from being used as response to actions (like waiting until the last minute of resolving time and then suddenly coming up with something someone else might want to respond to but doesn't get the opportunity to). That's why instants have been removed from the game and made as sorceries.
Regeneration is an exception as it's an ability that ONLY works after the block phase, and would otherwise be useless.
The problem with this is that people would wait with announcing their attacks until the last minute for optimal play. This way, people have a 2 hour window in any case. I'm fine with players announcing that they're locking in their attacks but I doubt that would be optimal for anyone.
The problem with that once again is that people can wait until the last minute to cast something and someone else won't have a chance to reply.
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On July 10 2012 07:43 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:31 Qatol wrote:On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. In the future, send me a PM if I'm not a player. I'll help out as much as I can. Thanks, I will. To everyone:I do plan on running another game like this in the future. What did you like about the game? What did you think about the board cards? What would you like to see changed? All input is welcome. I think it's going to be incredible hard to balance either way. Usually mafia games go like this:Town starts strong but has no clue and grows weaker as people get killed but the reads get better every day Mafia starts strong and grows weaker as people get killed (less KP). In this game it was more like:Town starts weak and and has no clue early one. Hoever they grow stronger ever cycle and the reads get better every day Mafia starts weak and grows stronger as people get killed The fact that usually town is "strong" when the game starts but in this game they ended up being incredible strong makes it really hard to balance. Let's forget about zealos deck, that shit was just imba. If he had attacked either matt or me with that move, there would not have been a way to win this game for mafia from the get-go. Still everyone else ended up bein really strong and Matt and I got incredible lucky that we had an extremly strong board. Without the 2 hovermyrs it would have been a townwin. With one goblin less it would have been a townwin. I was actually raging at one point because I couldn't figure out how to deal 2 damage to zealos instead of just one and we could have used matt's goblin for that if we hadn't destroyed something else with that. So from a mafia point of view I've got to say this was probably the hardest game I ever played. Seriously. Yeah we won but it literally came down to a margin of 1 HP (if the change had not happened) and I think I played quite decent the first couple of cycles, making town completly cirpple themselves. It really was a lot of fun but it all comes down to the very last cycle and I don't see that changing with the style MTG games are played because you grow stronger every single cycle.
You could've made it a lot easier on yourself by 1. Not forgetting to attack with the mafia beast and 2. Convincing S&B to not attack you since it would bring you to a 1-shot of the Mafia Beast. If you gave that argument, I think he would've backed down, and then it wouldn't look as funny if you didn't die in this cycle.
Regarding Zealos' deck: It was horribly overpowered and I'll never allow anything like it in a second game. I made an obvious mistake there.
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On July 10 2012 07:29 gonzaw wrote:But seriously people, there were some things that made me go "wtf?" and made me suspicious of everybody >_> Prome: Why did you attack Zealos instead of WBG and put Zealos on "can be killed by mafia KP" threshold ? That seemed so much like pushing a "let's kill Zealos so he doesn't use his tendrils next turn" gambit as scum it wasn't funny Fulla: What was up with instantly sheeping WBG ever since Nova died? Although I figured out you changing your reads so much had something to do with you being insecure and stuff so I figured out you were more likely town (basically when I read Prome's case) Zealos: lol I figured you were town (well...mostly because Artanis implied so in the Obs QT >_> )....but where were you this last day? You were almost completely inactive in discussions and shit Greymist: I'm disappointed that you "gave up" when we (or I) needed you the most to keep town in a good track and just decided to die without saying anything hoping we "follow your advice" and kill S&B later (which was actually wrong). Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:30 Oberyn wrote:
Dude don't scare me like that, it makes me think that maybe you are scum trying to get both 8/8 town beasts (from a town Nova and a townie me once you kill me tonight) dead by next turn so your team (that most likely may not include Grey) wins more easily >_> Show nested quote +On July 04 2012 04:32 Oberyn wrote:After a scum Wiggles tried to "convince me" to lynch prplhz instead of Palmar on iGrok's game I get more paranoid about people suddenly "urging" me to do something drastic out of a sudden  Why do scum always try to pull this shit on me >_> Well people, the instant someone does this shit on me in a next game I'm instantly killing you, since apparently only scum do it
Because I am retarded. I was so overwhelemed by the skill of the players in this game that I allowed that to cloud my judgment. This is literally my first ever mafia game on a forum and I had a hard time working it out. The complex rule set didn't help either since I was lost from the first minute this game started.
Reading the obs qt makes me feel way better about myself since everyone there had a town read on me and some even thought I must be a smurf. This was quite the learning experience and I had a great (but frustrating) time.
I am eternally grateful for Toad being scum because of how he was acting. If he had been town I probably would never have played mafia again.
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On July 10 2012 07:45 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 23:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 29 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote:
Artanis, when you say that we can't use abilities during the block phase that sounds different than what you told me in PMs. If I can't sacrifice my creatures during the block phase it hurts my deck quite a lot. If a two hour block phase is too short for you to resolve creature abilities in what you think is a fair way, could we have a poll or something on going to a longer block phase?
It's not just my deck - basic abilities like regeneration and blue bounce-blocking would be completely annulled if creatures can't use abilities during the block phase.
Alternatively, what if we could set up our block phase actions during the attack phase? Make it so that you can't take back an action or attack during the attack phase, and then the other players can use creature abilities during the attack phase in response to other attack actions.
Additionally, I have a suggestion to solve the problem someone mentioned above about timing problems like not being able to use a creature ability if someone else ninjas you and plays a kill spell or whatever. What if you resolved all spells and abilities targeting creatures or cast by them in proper stack order at the end of the main phase? That way people could still play spells and abilities targetting each others' creatures without it coming down to a timing question.
I don't believe you understand your deck still if you think that not being able to sacrifice creatures during the block phase hurts your deck a lot. It's not because it's too short; it's to prevent "instants" from being used as response to actions (like waiting until the last minute of resolving time and then suddenly coming up with something someone else might want to respond to but doesn't get the opportunity to). That's why instants have been removed from the game and made as sorceries.
Regeneration is an exception as it's an ability that ONLY works after the block phase, and would otherwise be useless.
The problem with this is that people would wait with announcing their attacks until the last minute for optimal play. This way, people have a 2 hour window in any case. I'm fine with players announcing that they're locking in their attacks but I doubt that would be optimal for anyone.
The problem with that once again is that people can wait until the last minute to cast something and someone else won't have a chance to reply.
My bad, my apologies. I suck.
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On July 10 2012 07:43 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:31 Qatol wrote:On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. In the future, send me a PM if I'm not a player. I'll help out as much as I can. Thanks, I will. To everyone:I do plan on running another game like this in the future. What did you like about the game? What did you think about the board cards? What would you like to see changed? All input is welcome. I think it's going to be incredible hard to balance either way. Usually mafia games go like this:Town starts strong but has no clue and grows weaker as people get killed but the reads get better every day Mafia starts strong and grows weaker as people get killed (less KP). In this game it was more like:Town starts weak and and has no clue early one. Hoever they grow stronger ever cycle and the reads get better every day Mafia starts weak and grows stronger as people get killed The fact that usually town is "strong" when the game starts but in this game they ended up being incredible strong makes it really hard to balance. Let's forget about zealos deck, that shit was just imba. If he had attacked either matt or me with that move, there would not have been a way to win this game for mafia from the get-go. Still everyone else ended up bein really strong and Matt and I got incredible lucky that we had an extremly strong board. Without the 2 hovermyrs it would have been a townwin. With one goblin less it would have been a townwin. I was actually raging at one point because I couldn't figure out how to deal 2 damage to zealos instead of just one and we could have used matt's goblin for that if we hadn't destroyed something else with that. So from a mafia point of view I've got to say this was probably the hardest game I ever played. Seriously. Yeah we won but it literally came down to a margin of 1 HP (if the change had not happened) and I think I played quite decent the first couple of cycles, making town completly cirpple themselves. It really was a lot of fun but it all comes down to the very last cycle and I don't see that changing with the style MTG games are played because you grow stronger every single cycle.
Ehmm...no
Yeah we won but it literally came down to a margin of 1 HP
What came "literally" down to a margin of 1 HP was you guys winning preemptively with a "last-minute-switch". You guys wouldn't have automatically lost if this "plan" of yours hadn't go through.
Even if all these "uber difficult plans" of you guys didn't go through......you would still be alive on D5 making it a 2-1 LYLO like S&B said (at worst basically)
I mean, if Mattchew was the "lynch" set for the day (as well as Fulla), how can you get angry for "almost losing", if in a normal game the same thing would have happened (Matt is lynched and you get to a 2-1 LYLO)?
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On July 10 2012 07:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:43 Toadesstern wrote:On July 10 2012 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:31 Qatol wrote:On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. In the future, send me a PM if I'm not a player. I'll help out as much as I can. Thanks, I will. To everyone:I do plan on running another game like this in the future. What did you like about the game? What did you think about the board cards? What would you like to see changed? All input is welcome. I think it's going to be incredible hard to balance either way. Usually mafia games go like this:Town starts strong but has no clue and grows weaker as people get killed but the reads get better every day Mafia starts strong and grows weaker as people get killed (less KP). In this game it was more like:Town starts weak and and has no clue early one. Hoever they grow stronger ever cycle and the reads get better every day Mafia starts weak and grows stronger as people get killed The fact that usually town is "strong" when the game starts but in this game they ended up being incredible strong makes it really hard to balance. Let's forget about zealos deck, that shit was just imba. If he had attacked either matt or me with that move, there would not have been a way to win this game for mafia from the get-go. Still everyone else ended up bein really strong and Matt and I got incredible lucky that we had an extremly strong board. Without the 2 hovermyrs it would have been a townwin. With one goblin less it would have been a townwin. I was actually raging at one point because I couldn't figure out how to deal 2 damage to zealos instead of just one and we could have used matt's goblin for that if we hadn't destroyed something else with that. So from a mafia point of view I've got to say this was probably the hardest game I ever played. Seriously. Yeah we won but it literally came down to a margin of 1 HP (if the change had not happened) and I think I played quite decent the first couple of cycles, making town completly cirpple themselves. It really was a lot of fun but it all comes down to the very last cycle and I don't see that changing with the style MTG games are played because you grow stronger every single cycle. You could've made it a lot easier on yourself by 1. Not forgetting to attack with the mafia beast and 2. Convincing S&B to not attack you since it would bring you to a 1-shot of the Mafia Beast. If you gave that argument, I think he would've backed down, and then it wouldn't look as funny if you didn't die in this cycle. Regarding Zealos' deck: It was horribly overpowered and I'll never allow anything like it in a second game. I made an obvious mistake there.
Yeah I know we didn't play perfect. Not sure if the no-shot ended up being +EV or -EV though because it really ended up freaking people out and led to a nova lynch for some reason lol.
The convincing s&b part is 100% true. I actually thought I can just block it and protection just means that it's indestrutable (like a 1/1 creature with protection can be blocked by a 5/5 creature but won't die). So that's why I didn't even think about it 
The weird way this plays out still makes it really hard for mafia imo because again, town starts really weak when they are clueless and grows stronger over time reaching maximum strength when they have the best reads in the gama possible when usually it should be strong while clueless and weak while having good reads.
A single player, or maybe 2 could have just killed Matt or myself if they had worked out together. A singler player or 2 can't do shit in a 6 player situation when majority for votes is still 4 and basicly at the end of the game everyone is a day-vig.
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On July 10 2012 07:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:45 strongandbig wrote:On June 29 2012 23:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 29 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote:
Artanis, when you say that we can't use abilities during the block phase that sounds different than what you told me in PMs. If I can't sacrifice my creatures during the block phase it hurts my deck quite a lot. If a two hour block phase is too short for you to resolve creature abilities in what you think is a fair way, could we have a poll or something on going to a longer block phase?
It's not just my deck - basic abilities like regeneration and blue bounce-blocking would be completely annulled if creatures can't use abilities during the block phase.
Alternatively, what if we could set up our block phase actions during the attack phase? Make it so that you can't take back an action or attack during the attack phase, and then the other players can use creature abilities during the attack phase in response to other attack actions.
Additionally, I have a suggestion to solve the problem someone mentioned above about timing problems like not being able to use a creature ability if someone else ninjas you and plays a kill spell or whatever. What if you resolved all spells and abilities targeting creatures or cast by them in proper stack order at the end of the main phase? That way people could still play spells and abilities targetting each others' creatures without it coming down to a timing question.
I don't believe you understand your deck still if you think that not being able to sacrifice creatures during the block phase hurts your deck a lot. It's not because it's too short; it's to prevent "instants" from being used as response to actions (like waiting until the last minute of resolving time and then suddenly coming up with something someone else might want to respond to but doesn't get the opportunity to). That's why instants have been removed from the game and made as sorceries.
Regeneration is an exception as it's an ability that ONLY works after the block phase, and would otherwise be useless.
The problem with this is that people would wait with announcing their attacks until the last minute for optimal play. This way, people have a 2 hour window in any case. I'm fine with players announcing that they're locking in their attacks but I doubt that would be optimal for anyone.
The problem with that once again is that people can wait until the last minute to cast something and someone else won't have a chance to reply. My bad, my apologies. I suck.
On July 10 2012 07:38 strongandbig wrote:
(yes i am mad but i also had fun so i'm trying to be constructive while still expressing how mad I am)
(its okay.)
And as for "the game came down to 1HP"
It's worse than that. the game literally came down to the fact that I reloaded the page at 7:00 before your attack posted. I could have sacrificed something or just attacked Mattchew instead of sitting on my hands.
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On July 10 2012 07:52 Toadesstern wrote:
Not sure if the no-shot ended up being +EV or -EV though because it really ended up freaking people out and led to a nova lynch for some reason lol.
A shot on someone like Zealos or S&B would've been better then a no shot for sure at least. Then you could have people WIFOM over Nova still.
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On July 01 2012 13:08 Oberyn wrote:
(to S&B)
Also, I guess you are townie since only townies do drunk outbursts (I have seen like 5> of them and all were made by townies, including mine), it's a nice heuristic.
On July 01 2012 19:27 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 19:23 Nova_Terra wrote:On July 01 2012 05:03 GreYMisT wrote:
The scum in this game are strongandbig/Matthew. Go ahead and kill me for the following reasons.
1. So you guys stop wasting time and energy
2. So you can get a reality check into your system and catch actual scum
3. So I get to see gonzaw wrong
You sir are the new Risk.Nuke. Well done.
On a non mafia note I am ashamed that my brother was introduced through this game and your spam. I'm starting to agree with this ( the part about s&b and mattchew) You know....I like that. People posting what they think of the thread "as they go by reading it" makes it very transparent of them. If they just said "okay I'll read the thread", then wait a couple of hours before posting their thoughts, then if they were scum they could easily read the whole thread, capture all the events that happened, and think what the best response would be based on that (taking everything into account). If they had to post "as they read it", then they take away that ability, and they may fuck up by saying something and then realizing they should have said something else; meaning they would most likely not do that at all...which means that the people that do it are more likely town. So Nova, keep doing that to see your thought process (specially when the juicy stuff comes). I realize you are not reading this (and reading the thread instead) so whatever. However props to you for doing that, it makes me feel better about you for now (and that the whole no-night-kill was staged)
On July 02 2012 07:43 Oberyn wrote:lol so much drunk posting. If both of you are town then that will be my main scumhunting skill Every townie just get drunk and post whatever you think!
Damn.....I could have confirmed 3 players as town if I had only followed the own heuristics I proposed >_>
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On July 10 2012 07:49 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:43 Toadesstern wrote:On July 10 2012 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:31 Qatol wrote:On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. In the future, send me a PM if I'm not a player. I'll help out as much as I can. Thanks, I will. To everyone:I do plan on running another game like this in the future. What did you like about the game? What did you think about the board cards? What would you like to see changed? All input is welcome. I think it's going to be incredible hard to balance either way. Usually mafia games go like this:Town starts strong but has no clue and grows weaker as people get killed but the reads get better every day Mafia starts strong and grows weaker as people get killed (less KP). In this game it was more like:Town starts weak and and has no clue early one. Hoever they grow stronger ever cycle and the reads get better every day Mafia starts weak and grows stronger as people get killed The fact that usually town is "strong" when the game starts but in this game they ended up being incredible strong makes it really hard to balance. Let's forget about zealos deck, that shit was just imba. If he had attacked either matt or me with that move, there would not have been a way to win this game for mafia from the get-go. Still everyone else ended up bein really strong and Matt and I got incredible lucky that we had an extremly strong board. Without the 2 hovermyrs it would have been a townwin. With one goblin less it would have been a townwin. I was actually raging at one point because I couldn't figure out how to deal 2 damage to zealos instead of just one and we could have used matt's goblin for that if we hadn't destroyed something else with that. So from a mafia point of view I've got to say this was probably the hardest game I ever played. Seriously. Yeah we won but it literally came down to a margin of 1 HP (if the change had not happened) and I think I played quite decent the first couple of cycles, making town completly cirpple themselves. It really was a lot of fun but it all comes down to the very last cycle and I don't see that changing with the style MTG games are played because you grow stronger every single cycle. Ehmm...no What came "literally" down to a margin of 1 HP was you guys winning preemptively with a "last-minute-switch". You guys wouldn't have automatically lost if this "plan" of yours hadn't go through. Even if all these "uber difficult plans" of you guys didn't go through......you would still be alive on D5 making it a 2-1 LYLO like S&B said (at worst basically) I mean, if Mattchew was the "lynch" set for the day (as well as Fulla), how can you get angry for "almost losing", if in a normal game the same thing would have happened (Matt is lynched and you get to a 2-1 LYLO)?
a 2-1 LYLO is either a lose for mafia or a draw because lynch and nightkills are at the same time.
If Zealos would have been able to do 12 damage before the attack phase started with another combi the plan failing would have meant town win.
If Zealos would not have been able to do 12 damage it would have meant Zealos and I are going to die at the same time => 0 v 1 and again town win.
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On July 10 2012 07:53 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:45 strongandbig wrote:On June 29 2012 23:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 29 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote:
Artanis, when you say that we can't use abilities during the block phase that sounds different than what you told me in PMs. If I can't sacrifice my creatures during the block phase it hurts my deck quite a lot. If a two hour block phase is too short for you to resolve creature abilities in what you think is a fair way, could we have a poll or something on going to a longer block phase?
It's not just my deck - basic abilities like regeneration and blue bounce-blocking would be completely annulled if creatures can't use abilities during the block phase.
Alternatively, what if we could set up our block phase actions during the attack phase? Make it so that you can't take back an action or attack during the attack phase, and then the other players can use creature abilities during the attack phase in response to other attack actions.
Additionally, I have a suggestion to solve the problem someone mentioned above about timing problems like not being able to use a creature ability if someone else ninjas you and plays a kill spell or whatever. What if you resolved all spells and abilities targeting creatures or cast by them in proper stack order at the end of the main phase? That way people could still play spells and abilities targetting each others' creatures without it coming down to a timing question.
I don't believe you understand your deck still if you think that not being able to sacrifice creatures during the block phase hurts your deck a lot. It's not because it's too short; it's to prevent "instants" from being used as response to actions (like waiting until the last minute of resolving time and then suddenly coming up with something someone else might want to respond to but doesn't get the opportunity to). That's why instants have been removed from the game and made as sorceries.
Regeneration is an exception as it's an ability that ONLY works after the block phase, and would otherwise be useless.
The problem with this is that people would wait with announcing their attacks until the last minute for optimal play. This way, people have a 2 hour window in any case. I'm fine with players announcing that they're locking in their attacks but I doubt that would be optimal for anyone.
The problem with that once again is that people can wait until the last minute to cast something and someone else won't have a chance to reply. My bad, my apologies. I suck. Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:38 strongandbig wrote:
(yes i am mad but i also had fun so i'm trying to be constructive while still expressing how mad I am) (its okay.) And as for "the game came down to 1HP" It's worse than that. the game literally came down to the fact that I reloaded the page at 7:00 before your attack posted. I could have sacrificed something or just attacked Mattchew instead of sitting on my hands.
yeah but in a situation town should by no way even have a chance left.
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I sent Artanis a list of all sliver cards in existence for him to use building my deck and he thought it was a decklist
oh well. Game meh for me but that doesnt mean the game itself wasnt amazing. thanks for the incredible amount of work artanis
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On July 10 2012 07:55 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 13:08 Oberyn wrote:
(to S&B)
Also, I guess you are townie since only townies do drunk outbursts (I have seen like 5> of them and all were made by townies, including mine), it's a nice heuristic. Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 19:27 Oberyn wrote:On July 01 2012 19:23 Nova_Terra wrote:On July 01 2012 05:03 GreYMisT wrote:
The scum in this game are strongandbig/Matthew. Go ahead and kill me for the following reasons.
1. So you guys stop wasting time and energy
2. So you can get a reality check into your system and catch actual scum
3. So I get to see gonzaw wrong
You sir are the new Risk.Nuke. Well done.
On a non mafia note I am ashamed that my brother was introduced through this game and your spam. I'm starting to agree with this ( the part about s&b and mattchew) You know....I like that. People posting what they think of the thread "as they go by reading it" makes it very transparent of them. If they just said "okay I'll read the thread", then wait a couple of hours before posting their thoughts, then if they were scum they could easily read the whole thread, capture all the events that happened, and think what the best response would be based on that (taking everything into account). If they had to post "as they read it", then they take away that ability, and they may fuck up by saying something and then realizing they should have said something else; meaning they would most likely not do that at all...which means that the people that do it are more likely town. So Nova, keep doing that to see your thought process (specially when the juicy stuff comes). I realize you are not reading this (and reading the thread instead) so whatever. However props to you for doing that, it makes me feel better about you for now (and that the whole no-night-kill was staged) Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 07:43 Oberyn wrote:lol so much drunk posting. If both of you are town then that will be my main scumhunting skill Every townie just get drunk and post whatever you think! Damn.....I could have confirmed 3 players as town if I had only followed the own heuristics I proposed >_>
Prome flipped scum in Newbie Mafia XIX though where he drunk posted too
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On July 10 2012 07:55 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:49 gonzaw wrote:On July 10 2012 07:43 Toadesstern wrote:On July 10 2012 07:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:31 Qatol wrote:On July 10 2012 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:12 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:10 marvellosity wrote:
If they post their attacks/unattacks within deadline time, how can you disallow it?? Artanis himself said that he didn't want things in this game to be decided by "race to the bottom" and that he would extend time limits in response to last minute actions. I think he should have extended the time limit. I'm also kind of pissed that he reversed himself, changed the rules of magic and made my deck super useless. A lot of these changes I had to make on the fly, without anyone to consult with but the players and occasionally Acrofales. It's really hard to run a game like this and especially with rules that if you change them can alter the course of the game dramatically, and I realize I've made some mistakes. In the future, send me a PM if I'm not a player. I'll help out as much as I can. Thanks, I will. To everyone:I do plan on running another game like this in the future. What did you like about the game? What did you think about the board cards? What would you like to see changed? All input is welcome. I think it's going to be incredible hard to balance either way. Usually mafia games go like this:Town starts strong but has no clue and grows weaker as people get killed but the reads get better every day Mafia starts strong and grows weaker as people get killed (less KP). In this game it was more like:Town starts weak and and has no clue early one. Hoever they grow stronger ever cycle and the reads get better every day Mafia starts weak and grows stronger as people get killed The fact that usually town is "strong" when the game starts but in this game they ended up being incredible strong makes it really hard to balance. Let's forget about zealos deck, that shit was just imba. If he had attacked either matt or me with that move, there would not have been a way to win this game for mafia from the get-go. Still everyone else ended up bein really strong and Matt and I got incredible lucky that we had an extremly strong board. Without the 2 hovermyrs it would have been a townwin. With one goblin less it would have been a townwin. I was actually raging at one point because I couldn't figure out how to deal 2 damage to zealos instead of just one and we could have used matt's goblin for that if we hadn't destroyed something else with that. So from a mafia point of view I've got to say this was probably the hardest game I ever played. Seriously. Yeah we won but it literally came down to a margin of 1 HP (if the change had not happened) and I think I played quite decent the first couple of cycles, making town completly cirpple themselves. It really was a lot of fun but it all comes down to the very last cycle and I don't see that changing with the style MTG games are played because you grow stronger every single cycle. Ehmm...no Yeah we won but it literally came down to a margin of 1 HP What came "literally" down to a margin of 1 HP was you guys winning preemptively with a "last-minute-switch". You guys wouldn't have automatically lost if this "plan" of yours hadn't go through. Even if all these "uber difficult plans" of you guys didn't go through......you would still be alive on D5 making it a 2-1 LYLO like S&B said (at worst basically) I mean, if Mattchew was the "lynch" set for the day (as well as Fulla), how can you get angry for "almost losing", if in a normal game the same thing would have happened (Matt is lynched and you get to a 2-1 LYLO)? a 2-1 LYLY is either a lose for mafia for a draw because lynch and nightkills are at the same time. If Zealos would have been able to do 12 damage before the attack phase started with another combi the plan failing would have meant town win.If Zealos would not have been able to do 12 damage it would have meant Zealos and I are going to die at the same time => 0 v 1 and again town win.
you could probably have persuaded zealos to attack prome instead of you after the flip.
seriously prome's filter was very townie except for the part where he kept saying he thought mattchew was scum for no reason and then never following up on that
it's like any normal 2-1 lylo. If town figures out you're scum you lose. If town doesn't figure it out you win.
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On July 10 2012 07:56 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2012 07:53 strongandbig wrote:On July 10 2012 07:47 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On July 10 2012 07:45 strongandbig wrote:On June 29 2012 23:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On June 29 2012 23:01 strongandbig wrote:
Artanis, when you say that we can't use abilities during the block phase that sounds different than what you told me in PMs. If I can't sacrifice my creatures during the block phase it hurts my deck quite a lot. If a two hour block phase is too short for you to resolve creature abilities in what you think is a fair way, could we have a poll or something on going to a longer block phase?
It's not just my deck - basic abilities like regeneration and blue bounce-blocking would be completely annulled if creatures can't use abilities during the block phase.
Alternatively, what if we could set up our block phase actions during the attack phase? Make it so that you can't take back an action or attack during the attack phase, and then the other players can use creature abilities during the attack phase in response to other attack actions.
Additionally, I have a suggestion to solve the problem someone mentioned above about timing problems like not being able to use a creature ability if someone else ninjas you and plays a kill spell or whatever. What if you resolved all spells and abilities targeting creatures or cast by them in proper stack order at the end of the main phase? That way people could still play spells and abilities targetting each others' creatures without it coming down to a timing question.
I don't believe you understand your deck still if you think that not being able to sacrifice creatures during the block phase hurts your deck a lot. It's not because it's too short; it's to prevent "instants" from being used as response to actions (like waiting until the last minute of resolving time and then suddenly coming up with something someone else might want to respond to but doesn't get the opportunity to). That's why instants have been removed from the game and made as sorceries.
Regeneration is an exception as it's an ability that ONLY works after the block phase, and would otherwise be useless.
The problem with this is that people would wait with announcing their attacks until the last minute for optimal play. This way, people have a 2 hour window in any case. I'm fine with players announcing that they're locking in their attacks but I doubt that would be optimal for anyone.
The problem with that once again is that people can wait until the last minute to cast something and someone else won't have a chance to reply. My bad, my apologies. I suck. On July 10 2012 07:38 strongandbig wrote:
(yes i am mad but i also had fun so i'm trying to be constructive while still expressing how mad I am) (its okay.) And as for "the game came down to 1HP" It's worse than that. the game literally came down to the fact that I reloaded the page at 7:00 before your attack posted. I could have sacrificed something or just attacked Mattchew instead of sitting on my hands. yeah but in a situation town should by no way even have a chance left.
you would have had a sure win if you hadn't done the last minute switch though.
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And why is this "a situation town shouldn't have a chance in?"
it's just like in a normal game where town derps and mislynches consecutively until lylo, they can still win if they lynch correctly.
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EPT
