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On June 22 2012 18:34 strongandbig wrote:
Okay wait hiro why would we go along with any plan that involves one of us dying? It puts all our chances in he basket of hoping scum are playing reasonably, which I'm not sure I'm comfortable with.
This is why:
To Hiro/S&B: you're the ones I'm afraid won't go along with this, but I think you should. The risk to you is very small: the only situation one of you dies in, is if DB is town and his roleclaim is true (small chance) AND Nisani decides to screw you over (he has been claiming he wants to die all day now to avoid his second losscon). If you agree with me that the chance of these two events occurring together are very tiny, then you stand to gain: heaps of towncred! If you don't get lynched, you win and town likes you. If you do get lynched then your partner is confirmed and we're no longer worrying about you perhaps being a scum team.
What is it, exactly, that you're afraid of?
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Maybe Drazerk has something to say on the matter. He has a unique insight into the twisted minds of bastard mods, due to the twistyness of his own mind. In general, weird play is neither a scumtell, nor a town tell: it can be wifom'd either way. Personally, I would've claimed VT (/glares at Drazerk) or neutral survivor (/glares at ghost) as scum, but some would argue that precisely the reason scum picks a weird roleclaim is to point out that scum would NEVER make such a weird roleclaim (they then usually proceed to blast VE out of existence  ).
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Hypothetical situation: what would Majuju have seen if he had role checked a roleblocker?
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I'm not even sure why I asked that question. I'm fairly certain the answer must be "weird", because none of the other answers could be. Here is the relevant bit from Maju's role pm:
You may check a player every night, and receive "Nothing", "Vigilante", "Medic", "Detective" or "Weird". You are sane, although you have some very long arms which makes your clothes require unique measurement.
This makes the whole Hyaach situation really weird, because personally I don't think a roleblocker is a weird role at all. I can imagine this was done, because they didn't want to give hints about the potential roles in the game (other than the ones outlined in the OP), however, he IS explicitly notified about vigilantes, who are also not mentioned in the OP.
That leaves a rather plausible explanation: Hyaach is Maju's scumbuddy. He is, in fact, a roleblocker (I don't think there's much doubt of that, because Nisani was roleblocked). However, Maju would never bother checking him, because he is his scumbuddy. So there was no need to add "roleblocker" as a possible role to be checked by the scummy rolecop!
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Hyaach: why did you roleblock Nisani?
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On June 22 2012 19:50 Hyaach wrote:
No idea about Maju's PM at all. But it really makes me look ugly as fuck.
Been on him since day one. I know his 3rd party, I don't know what power he has so I roleblocked him.
Voting thread says alot of stuff.
Voting thread says you think he's scummy. It doesn't say much about your motivations for roleblocking him. I also wanted you to voice it. How things are said is often as important as what is said. Unfortunately, in this case I got nothing from it 
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On June 22 2012 19:36 DropBear wrote:Check the voting thread oh glorious confirmed townie.
G'day mate!
What do you think of the guy you decided to answer for here?
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@Hyaach: you haven't changed your vote. Do you disagree with the plan?
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On June 22 2012 21:21 Hyaach wrote:
I've been vocal about my opinion of him. I suspected his 3rd party. I don't know what power he has and before his dead, I will tunnel him. Who do you suggest was a better target for roleblock last night? my guts read on xskxk? my null read on on BnS?
or my 3rd party read on nisani201?
No... I completely agree with roleblocking Nisani. I would probably have done it too. I just wanted to know why YOU did it. The problem is that if you're scum, you know Nisani isn't, so from a scum perspective roleblocking someone suspected of being the MA makes a lot of sense. I was hoping your reason would include something about the MA. It doesn't, hence null.
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On June 22 2012 21:25 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 21:12 Acrofales wrote:On June 22 2012 19:36 DropBear wrote:On June 22 2012 19:32 Acrofales wrote:
Hyaach: why did you roleblock Nisani? Check the voting thread oh glorious confirmed townie. G'day mate! What do you think of the guy you decided to answer for here? He made a case. He voted on this case. He roleblocked on this case. He is making sense. He claimed roleblocker and that he roleblocked Nisani. Nisani claims he was roleblocked. There is no King today according to the daypost. It all checks out. I can't see why he would roleblock Nisani if he was Mafia, Nisani was a major target.
So... he's making sense. Is he scum? Or town?
He would roleblock Nisani, because everything at night pointed towards him being the Monarchist Activist and everything up until that point (except Nisani's actual behaviour) pointed towards the MA being a townie role. What is there not to understand about that?
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On June 22 2012 21:29 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 21:24 Acrofales wrote:On June 22 2012 21:21 Hyaach wrote:
I've been vocal about my opinion of him. I suspected his 3rd party. I don't know what power he has and before his dead, I will tunnel him. Who do you suggest was a better target for roleblock last night? my guts read on xskxk? my null read on on BnS?
or my 3rd party read on nisani201? No... I completely agree with roleblocking Nisani. I would probably have done it too. I just wanted to know why YOU did it. The problem is that if you're scum, you know Nisani isn't, so from a scum perspective roleblocking someone suspected of being the MA makes a lot of sense. I was hoping your reason would include something about the MA. It doesn't, hence null. Your actions and posting suggests otherwise. You had me as number 1 scumread and you shot BioSC. If you are mafia you are doing a good job sir. If you aren't you are a total idiot.
Okay, you're right. I might not have done it too. I'm thinking with 20/20 hindsight. Sorry.
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On June 22 2012 21:34 DropBear wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2012 21:30 ghost_403 wrote:
Alright, I'm down with the Acro-Tali-DropBear Initiative.
##Unvote Nisani201
##Vote DropBear
Why am I like the only person declaring my vote in thread?
Also, bbl. Acrofales didn't have anything to do with it why is he getting credit?
Tali made the plan, you sheeped the plan, I hammered out the final details. But yeah, I don't care about credit, I just want people to follow it.
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On June 22 2012 23:10 talismania wrote:
ok I voted dropbear but I feel kinda like it's dumb now that he himself came up with that idea. scum shouldn't do that. numbers-wise if he's town that will leave us at 4 v 1 v 3 tomorrow I think which is actually a situation where the third party players could ostensibly help the scum player if they felt like it. unless my math is wrong.
=/
on hyaach that's a good catch acro with maju's pm. If I were scum though I wouldn't have roleblocked nisani given how disorienting the king situation was. Then again maybe he saw the mass claim coming? dunno.
I'm not sold on the idea anymore either, but I can't clear DropBear in my mind. There's just too much in his posting that doesn't feel right from a town perspective. I realize my cases from yesterday are now outdated, so I'll just sum up my current feelings.
1. He is extremely defensive, acting all up-in-your-face at anybody (mainly me) who accuses him. While I recognize this a bit from my own play (regardless of alignment), I usually defend myself once and then shrug off further accusations as town, while as scum I pad my filter replying ad infinitum. DropBear's posting style feels more like the latter than the former.
2. He is not reading the thread well at all. He repeatedly asks questions that have already been answered. This is definitely not townie. It clogs up the thread with repetitions. Additionally scum generally does not pay as much attention to the details of the game: they already know who's town and scum (this does not quite work in this game).
3. His roleclaim still doesn't sit well. Vengeful townie is an easy claim to make as scum as it has a pretty good chance of scaring townies into not voting. I am just very doubtful about the truthfulness of the claim.
4. He keeps pointing to his contributions this game as if that makes him town. It doesn't. His attitude has not been to proactively scumhunt, but reactively make a case on the most damnable player around. These happened to be 3rd party, so he was happy to comply.
However, there are some redeeming qualities that reduce the whole scumfactor:
1. His explanation of how Maju's flip made KB less scummy in his eyes. Not the explanation itself (which is nonsense), but the way he insists on this explanation and how it changed his mind. His behaviour on this point seems like a townie defense, not a scum one.
2. His pro-plan attitude. He even suggested it... not sure he suggested it as a new idea, or as a reintroduction of Tali's idea, but he posted it at a time to give it extra reinforcement. I don't see a scum motive on how this can be a good idea.
The only scum motive is the kind of thing Drazerk would do: because we don't see a scum motive, we think it's a town thing to do and don't lynch him. It's a giant gamble, but plausible. It's also wifom. The Ockham's razor explanation is: it's a townie thing to do.
However, the long and the short of it is that I don't think we can allow DropBear to live. We are never going to make up our minds about him. There are plenty of reasons to suspect him of being scum and it's basically a win/win scenario: if he's scum, he dies. If he's town, we get rid of the speculation around him (lets face it, scum won't kill him and we'll have him left at lylo) and kill Nisani in the process. I see no downside.
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On June 22 2012 23:16 talismania wrote:
shit third party survivors are annoying. might be best to just get rid of them and force the scum to shoot into town to eliminate options even if it takes us to lylo. let me think. 4v1v3 then 3v1v2 then 2v1v1 ugh no that's just icky nevermind.
For scum to get survivors on his side, he would have to claim. As it is now, survivors know as much as town does, which is that there is a scum hiding in: ghost, hyaach, dropbear and xssksksc. The survivors are pretty astute mafia players (well, hiro and S&B are... I have no history with ghost), so they may figure stuff out before we do, but in general we can assume town and survivors have the same info about who's scum. So survivors playing on the scum side of things only really helps them if scum can hand them an ironclad victory by claiming.
The only one who has extra info is ghost, who knows of himself whether he's scum or not.
However, how is not lynching DB a better option, unless we are actually convinced he's town? I've gone through the math, and DB being a vengeful townie does not delay lylo and does eliminate a candidate for the final scum.
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On June 23 2012 00:10 Drazerk wrote:
Except if he isn't the only scum left and nisani controls the lynch forever meaning we lose...
But leaving DB alive doesn't change that. Nisani only controls the lynch if he jumps off AND Hyaach doesn't roleblock him again tomorrow. We know Hyaach is a roleblocker. We don't know that he's town. However, Nisani getting roleblocked again tonight if he somehow survives, would guarantee him being town
Okay, changed plan to avoid that crap
VOTE Scheme:
Nisani: DropBear, Drazerk, Tali, Acro, Hyaach (5)
DropBear: deconduo, HiroPro, ghost, xskskc, Nisani (5)
xksksc: S&B (1)
This way we are guaranteed a Nisani lynch. If Nisani does shitty shenanigans and jumps off, DB lives and Nisani dies all the same. All we have to do is make sure that DB has the votes before Nisani does. I am happy to wait until the votes are ready. It also removes any risk to anybody except Nisani and DropBear getting lynched!
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^^^^is foolproof way of killing Nisani OR scummy DB.
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Current votes:
Nisani: DB, Drazerk, Hyaach
DB: Acro, Hiro, deconduo, ghost, Tali
Not voted: xksksksc, Nisani, S&B
TODO LIST
xksksc: vote for Nisani (sorry for keeping you awake  )
Nisani: vote for DropBear
S&B: vote for somebody else
When these votes are in, I will switch to Nisani to create the situation outlined above.
Nisani and DB will have 5 votes each, but DB will have them first, so will be up for lynch. If Nisani tries any shenanigans, he will have more votes than DB and be up for lynch. If anybody else tries any shenanigans they will either be last on DB (and if DB is town telling the truth that means dead upon lynch) or nothing will change.
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Eeep. I missed that xksksc already voted for Nisani! Never mind.
[b]TODO LIST
xkskcc: go to sleep
Nisani: vote for DropBear
S&B: vote for somebody else.
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Votecount please?
Just to make sure I'm not miscounting
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On June 23 2012 00:40 ghost_403 wrote:
Wait, I'm confused. (Not changed my vote confused, just "why are we here again" confused.) Why are we playing shenanigans with the votes again? Drazerk's objection to the DropBear lynch seemed to be based around the fact that he thought it was more important to lynch Nisani. So how does lynching DropBear this way fix that?
Drazerk absolutely wants Nisani to die. I agree that Nisani's death is a good thing. However, killing just Nisani puts us at a possible lylo tomorrow with 3 very scummy candidates. Killing DB in addition gives us a good chance at killing scum (I still think he's scum and lying about his roleclaim) and in the strange situation where he's not, he avenges himself and kills Nisani: 2 birds with one stone.
However, Nisani COULD screw this up and then, if DB is in fact town (if he's scum then who cares what Nisani does), Nisani is alive to wreak havoc, while town is no nearer to its wincon (having killed xskskckskc or S&B with DB).
The NEW voting system absolutely 100% ensures Nisani's death (unless at least 4 people collude to screw it up). If Nisani cooperates, it kills DB together with Nisani. If Nisani doesn't cooperate, it just kills him and leaves DB alive. If somebody else doesn't cooperate we know he's anti-town and can lynch him tomorrow (Nisani will still be dead).
In the NEW voting system the only scenario in which Nisani doesn't die, is if DB is scum. I consider that a win all the same.
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EPT
