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Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 10 2012 18:37 GMT
#150
On June 11 2012 02:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 00:26 GreYMisT wrote:
I would rather not lynch a player based on how good they might be as scum with no evidence.

And yes chaoser, there are other ways. In a world where we would RNG the lynch, we would need to pick someone to do it, or have everyone RNG and then pick the person who showed up the most. Even though you provided a screen shot we don't know how many times that RNG was run, or your parameters

This post is smart. Unlike RNG, which is dumb and useful for scum seeing as all they need to do is "RNG" someone who already has a couple votes. It leaves no accountability for who gets lynched because everyone will say the same thing "I just RNG'd it."



That's not how you RNG.

You RNG based on something verifiable, and then everyone follows the result.

For instance, Detroit play Cincinnati tonight(mlb). So you assign everyone a number of hits. Then, however many hits there are in that game, that player gets lynched. Hits are a good RNG, because they vary in quite a range, and the average is probably around 17/18 hits per game. Because players near the average are more likely to get lynched, you run it like a snake:

8 etc...
9 Ace
10 MrWiggles
11 BrownBear
12 BrownBear
13 MrWiggles
14 Ace
15 chaoser
16 Meapak_Ziphh
17 gonzaw ---- avg 17.5 hits or so?
18 Hesmyrr
19 Palmar
20 Radfield!
21 VisceraEyes
22 GreYMisT

23 Greymist
24 VisceraEyes
25 Radfield
26 ... ect

Tadaa! You have a fairly random lynch based on the amount of hits in a baseball game.

But yes, the only people accountable for the lynch at that point are the Reds and Tigers. That is pretty much the opposite of a successful day 1 in my opinion.

On June 11 2012 02:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
This post is smart. Unlike RNG, which is dumb and useful for scum seeing as all they need to do is "RNG" someone who already has a couple votes. It leaves no accountability for who gets lynched because everyone will say the same thing "I just RNG'd it."


That being said, you're not doing anything to move along discussion either. Great, RNG sucks, at least try to move on the discussion to more productive topics.

On June 11 2012 00:05 chaoser wrote:
Backing away from RNG, Ace? I didn't realize there were DIFFERENT ways to RNG. Pray tell what the other ways are aside from RNGing using a, well, random number generator.



Obviously we are not lynching based off a screenshot you posted. I find it hard to believe that you think your RNG is remotely legitimate.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 10 2012 18:49 GMT
#154
On June 11 2012 03:44 Palmar wrote:
I'm ok with an RNG lynch.

If needed I can write a simple bash script that randomizes our names every few seconds and displays them on a webpage or something, then we just need someone else to select a random time (maybe when I'm asleep or something?) and we'll screenshot the page at that time, lynching the first player.


That's way more boring than rooting for hits in the Tigers game
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 10 2012 19:14 GMT
#157
Palmar, do you think that RNG lynching Day 1 gives town a better chance to win the game?
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 10 2012 19:55 GMT
#163
On June 11 2012 04:17 Palmar wrote:
And I didn't think you were dumb enough to not understand why and how.


I'm dumb enough to not understand all sorts of things. But I'm smart enough to listen when people explain things to me.

You used to be Day 1 scum hunter extraordinaire, yet now your pushing RNG which gives you only straight odds of hitting scum. It also reduces information gained due to forcing votes. It also gives you an equal chance of hitting a player who is an asset. Typically the worst a Day 1 mislynch does is clear out some of the chaff, but RNG doesn't even do that.

I'm not even strongly against an RNG, and I'm interested to see it actually used in a game... but I really don't see how it generates any more benefit than a standard lynch.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 10 2012 21:35 GMT
#181
On June 11 2012 06:16 gonzaw wrote:
However, again that makes him null or slightly town for me today (like I said after D2-D3 I'd be best to reanalyze his posts and not keep that same "town read). Plus he always gets killed on N1 (whether scum or CF), and he always gets retarded-ly lynched on D1 (I know that feel bro, just check any UG game I've been town in ); so I don't want him lynched right now (based on what's been posted in the thread).
Like I said, I'm waiting for his response on the Wiggles/Greymist deal


Are you referring to me here gonzaw? Because I've only ever been lynched once as town out of 20 or so games. That one lynching was day 1, as by midgame I'm generally either dead or very likely town.


I'm down with either a MZ or Greymist lynch at this point.

MZ, what in particular made my early play unradfield-like?
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 10 2012 21:44 GMT
#184
Bit too early to tell for Wiggles.

Something seems a bit off with Greymists posts, but it could just be what happens when a player gets called out for posting fluff at the start of a game. There's little but fluff to talk about in the opening of a game. Also, I like that he has been on today despite giving himself an excuse to be offline. It's generally a good sign when players do more than they say they will.

On June 11 2012 06:13 GreYMisT wrote:
You accuse me of only posting fluff while I stated I would not be able to do much for all of today.

Alright fair enough, but I ask you what is up with this:


Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 05:58 gonzaw wrote:
Oh yeah I fucking forgot about the Crazy Fiend.

Well, hey scum! If you ever shoot the CF and you are getting lynched, could you out his identity to us before you get lynched?

Here read this post:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&currentpage=3#46



why bring this up now? there has not been a missing KP, nor has there even been a night phase. The only reasoning I can see behind this post is to remind the thread that you have thought critically (before the game started) and to get us off track of discussing a lynch.

On June 11 2012 06:20 GreYMisT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2012 06:16 gonzaw wrote:
On June 11 2012 06:06 Palmar wrote:
There is no 100% of attention to be focused on a site that's already ready, and if we RNG by it I won't be awake to make the timing call nor see the result until next morning. so you're creating shit that doesn't exist.


I do find it hilarious that you guys are the most "experienced" players in this game but it seems you guys are so frightened of making analysis or something that you want to retort to RNG.

Not even in Newbie Games people take RNG seriously, and those are the "noobs" that "are shit at analysing".

Last game you played as scum you started tunneling someone that was not too far in the spotlight very early in the game.


Last game as scum there were 2 scum factions and for most of the game I believed that the player I was "tunneling" was in fact scum from the other faction

Irrelevant.

Your entire case on Greymist is that he "posted fluff" which can be said about half the players in the game. Discussing a RNG lynch is by definition fluff, it's only what you do with the information that results from it that can be very helpful.


Yes, it is "fluff" and it's not based on analysis, which is what Greymist said he was eager to experience this game.

He was the one that said/implied he'd want analysis made this game, which is why I'm holding him accountable alone.
VE didn't say he'd want analysis this game, he might just be dicking around on purpose and wanting to dick around on purpose.

However Grey said otherwise, so yeah I'm holding him accountable, and I find it suspicious because of it.


After Liar Game, in Post-Game Ver/Incognito said that ET made a "statement that he could be held accountable" at the start of D1 (that he'd tunnel sandro if sandro was scummy).
They said that taking that statement alone, and his behaviour later in the game he was obvious scum.
They also said everybody (except chaoser) completely ignored that.

I tried to get the hint and pay close attention to any similar statement made on D1 that can be used to hold that player accountable, which is why I paid close attention to Grey's statement.

Do you believe that Greymist has more chance than anyone else in the game to flip scum gonzaw? What do you think about Radfield?


For now yes, either him or Wiggles.

Most of all, I want to start some meaningful discussion that's not centered on retarded RNG.

About Radfield:

As soon as the game started, he was the 2nd person to post. He seemed very eager to post, contribute, and get the game going.
I find those very positive traits.

However, the only discussion he's been part of (where he's been "active" and "contributing" ) was about the RNG deal, and not about trying to actually find scum.
That makes him null to me, since like I said, if he was scum he could have easily tried to establish his "D1 town meta" by "pseudo-contributing" about irrelevant stuff, like the RNG deal or the "let's lynch someone we know is dangerous as scum! Let's lynch Ace/Palmar!" deal.


However, again that makes him null or slightly town for me today (like I said after D2-D3 I'd be best to reanalyze his posts and not keep that same "town read). Plus he always gets killed on N1 (whether scum or CF), and he always gets retarded-ly lynched on D1 (I know that feel bro, just check any UG game I've been town in ); so I don't want him lynched right now (based on what's been posted in the thread).
Like I said, I'm waiting for his response on the Wiggles/Greymist deal


Rad said the exact same thing in the early game, and has also been talking mostly about RNG lynches.


What are your thoughts btw? you seem to be hesitant to talk about it.


These two posts in particular seem off. Decent target for now, but again, it's still early.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 10 2012 22:38 GMT
#189
On June 11 2012 07:00 gonzaw wrote:
Radfield, answer me this please:

Show nested quote +
On June 9 or 10 I don't remember 2012 who the fuck cares about the time? Radfield wrote:
In other news we could RNG a lynch. Ace, Palmar! GOGOGO!



On June 10 2012 09:00 Radfield wrote:
Can you hit me with the actual reasoning behind an RNG lynch. I honestly don't understand the benefit.


Okay, I doubt this is a scumslip or anything and you just did it as a joke or something, but just for confirmation: Why did you propose a RNG but then oppose one?


It was a semi-inside joke. Lately Palmar and Ace have been pushing RNG lynch Day1 in pretty much every mini they've played. I've never been convinced that it's actually a good idea, but it works well enough as a topic starter.

Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 10 2012 22:46 GMT
#194
On June 11 2012 06:48 gonzaw wrote:

Radfield, what do you think of Palmar's sudden switch from "Let's RNG, here I even went through all the trouble to set up a site that does all the shit and shit" to "Okay I changed my mind, now I find MZ suspicious and I want to lynch him because of this reason"; when the only thing in between was my case on Greymist/Wiggles?



It's to be expected. I still don't think anyone actually intends to go through with an RNG lynch, but rather uses it as a way to open up Day 1.


Also, what do you think of Palmar trying to divert attention off my Greymist case and on to MZ, and trying to discredit me as well (by saying that "last time I was scum I tunneled someone that was under the radar" and stuff)


I noticed it too, but it's a bit simplistic to draw any conclusions based off that. Either way, I'm happy having attention on both of them for now.

MZ was randomly slinging mud on me to start, when I'm player least worth focusing on Day 1. There is no medic this game, which means I'll either die or catch scum... or else I'm probably scum. It's fairly simple. He also popped in and poo-pooed the RNG lynch, which is exactly what I expect scum to do. Mafia want to buy town cred early, and shooting down the RNG(which is at least on the surface very anti-town) is an easy way to do it. He shot it down but made no attempt to move along the thread.

Again, it's early, but I expect more.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 10 2012 23:03 GMT
#197
I really like that.

This is why you need to play more often Hesmyrr.

Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 10:53 GMT
#286
Ended up going out late last night, woke up late this morning.

I'll try to catch up at lunch, and will have plenty of time this evening.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 20:54 GMT
#362
On June 12 2012 05:20 gonzaw wrote:
Radfield is still fucking missing, and he still hasn't posted any real contributions.

When I asked him for his thoughts about Grey, Wiggles, Palmar, etc, he said "It's too early to talk about this"...but now that it is not in fact "too early to talk about this" he's not here.

Fuck.



I said I'd be back this evening... and here I am.

It appears our lynch has been bumped up an hour which is kinda sucky. Several people have been asking me questions, but I'm just going to ignore them for now and filter instead.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 21:11 GMT
#370
On June 12 2012 06:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also BB's case is good, I have to go and will be out for the rest of the day and there's nothing quiet like dat omgus.

##Vote: Palmar


It's actually not that good. But it IS a good effort.

There is a decent case to be made on VE, but I want to finish filtering first.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 21:15 GMT
#371
Ace, do you actually think lynching Palmar is the best play today? So far I see very little alarming about his play, the biggest thing being his deliberate stretch on Brownbear:

On June 12 2012 05:21 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2012 05:13 BrownBear wrote:
Palmar, I get that you like to play aggressive and by your own rules, but everything you've done so far this game makes me suspicious of you. Not to mention you've insulted me directly several times. As far as I'm concerned you're a cancerous influence on this town, and we need to either lynch you, or decide that you're just frustrating townie and ignore you.


So you're fine with killing me even if I'm town cause you don't like how I play?


Other than that he looks decent.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 21:15 GMT
#372
^ The inherent question in that post being: Why do you think Palmar is scum?
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 21:31 GMT
#375
On June 12 2012 06:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hey Rad! Bro! Vote for MZ for town victory!


I'm considering it, but his demeanor is very unscumlike. That being said I think he has the ability to put up excellent defenses as scum when his back is against the wall. He had me second guessing myself in PYP:Int, and I basically had a red check on him.

He doesn't have anything expressly super-townie in his posts, but his overall in your face/antagonistic playstyle doesn't seem forced or fake. It seems like he doesn't really give a crap, which is a townie trait.

THAT being said, some of his posts raise flags(his early posts+ the VE post), but not really enough for me to want to lynch him.

I'm also realizing that it doesn't make particular sense to lynch you Day 1 either, as your town play tend to stand out, and you'll get significantly easier to read as the game goes on. It hinges on me finding another candidate though
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 21:46 GMT
#377
Rest assured, If you're still the scummiest player after I finish filtering, I will push you Happy

You're right though, he really only been 'in your face' with Palmar, but that doesn't make it look like a show.

Can you lay out for me in a clear and concise format why you think MZ is the best lynch today?
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 21:56 GMT
#379
I see the one regarding the VE post, and I agree with you that it's scummy. I can also see a townie using that reasoning after mislynching someone twice. Feelings like that happen in mafia. I'm not sure which other post you're referring to though.


Hesmyrr, you pushed VE, you're obviously around as you posted an hour ago, yet you are not contributing at all to the lynch. Do you still think VE is the best lynch? Is anyone else on your radar? Pitch in.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 21:58 GMT
#381
Chaoser, I don't really see the Greymist case right now. I certainly don't see much wrong with his response to the Vanilla Town thing. What specifically do you see as the reasons for voting Grey?
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 22:03 GMT
#383
On June 12 2012 06:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah sure Rad. First of all, the only firm stance he's taken on anyone has been Palmar. However, he has taken weak stances on several people (myself, you, GreY, Wiggles, etc.)

Add to that his weak ass reasoning for not wanting to lynch me...it stank of wanting to avoid giving an opinion one way or another, but still appear to be "taking a stance". When asked about it, he ignores it.

Add to that his incendiary prodding of Palmar close to the lynch, and it all seems to point toward pushing an agenda to me.


I don't see that as a particularly strong case.

It's Day 1, weak stances are to be expected. I agree he had a strange reason for not wanting to vote you, but it was strange in a strange way, not a scummy way.

Palmar invites incendiary prodding like few other players on the site. Getting in a pissing contest with Palmar is hardly indicative of scum.

I'm not going to cry if we lynch him, but I don't think our odds are particularly high. I have to run for a minute, but will put together a quick case on VE when I get back. Unless of course someone can convince me of another lynch, but no one seems to be really pushing anyone.
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
June 11 2012 22:04 GMT
#384
On June 12 2012 06:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
WHEW GUY, I almost lynched you for not doing this shit Rad. Be more careful bro.


I assume you're talking about the 'asking questions' but it's not something I necessarily do. Go filter me on PYPoison and count the amount of questions I ask people in the first chunk of the game.
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