Wheel of Fortune Mini Mafia

On April 21 2012 10:24 Radfield wrote:



You didn't lose the game for town in Palmar's game. Dirkzor played a solid game, and left himself in a position where he had contributed more than either of the other two players alive at lylo.

My challenge for you this game is to have zero 1 liners. If you are going to post, make sure it actually serves a purpose. Do some analysis and make sure that your opinions have actual reasoning behind them, and show that reasoning.

Otherwise I hope you are a mason -_-

On April 24 2012 02:39 SamuelLJackson wrote:
@phagga You clearly have been here for the past couple hours. Any comments besides lol and vote count plx?

@VE not really, I prefer optimal play specially day1 when evidence is flimsy. I actually would rather lynch rad then the other 2, but it's again non optimal.

On April 24 2012 04:32 Sbrubbles wrote:
Rad:

+ Show Spoiler +

Your answers are mostly satisfactory, but I'd still like to understand better what your suspicions. Prplhz commented on you frequently keeping your reads to yourself, but I think we could profit from seeing you write them down for us. Still, whether you decide to enlighten us (and whether you've changed your mind or not after his posting), I've begun to agree with you in relation to VE.

VE:

+ Show Spoiler +

Your defense of Zentor, that you don't see him making such an advanced scum move, doesn't stick for me. It feels like scum fabricating defense on a townie to potentially gain cred with him or with the town if he's lynched.

+ Show Spoiler +

Your reasoning on Ace has already been adressed by himself and others here commenting on his meta. I'd be more than happy with giving him the benefit of a doubt. His setup discussion got things rolling in a good way and I don't see him play as scummy at all.

Accusing someone who hasn't been active (in this case, myself) is usually good town play in order to get people to talk and remove from the game someone who isn't contributing to town. Still, trying to shift focus to lurkers when we've been having pretty good discussions is trying appear useful without having to actually having to take strong stances . And this is scummy behaviour to me.

Lastly, between you and Rad, you've both accused the other, but looking at the game through "VE town lenses" and "Radfield town lenses", I think his play makes more sense. So I'm voting you.

##vote VisceraEyes

On April 24 2012 06:32 Forumite wrote:
Back, still some reading to catch up on.

Not sure about the exact votecount, but if we don´t have a candidate now, 30 minutes before the deadline, then I´d feel fine with not lynching at all. Late voteswitches never end well.

On April 24 2012 06:46 Forumite wrote:
At least a lot of players are here.

I still want MrZentor to die, especially after his listpost, I don´t want him to go out and provide us with a lurker to lynch. Barring that, do we no-lynch, or lynch snarfs or marvel?

On April 25 2012 08:26 Snarfs wrote:

There you are! What happened to the VE from C9++? . So you mislynched C_C... coulda happened to anyone! You were still awesome at finding scum and I wouuldn't mind your help on this one as well! So, get back in the game, man! Be that awesome dominating VE we all love! Find us some scum!

On April 25 2012 09:30 MrZentor wrote:
I hope you guys know I'm getting some really good information.

Anyways, masons need to claim before I'm gonna point out the scum.

On April 25 2012 09:22 Forumite wrote:

L-1?

On April 21 2012 06:53 Radfield wrote:
/in

this is a C9++?

I have never been modkilled and don't intend on starting here.

The only thing I ever read from the OPs are whether there are PMs or not

On April 21 2012 06:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
I did but you still can't read

edit: yes Radfield, basically, but balanced for TL standards.

again, I stress: anyone who has not read the OP and has /inned demonstrating that they have not read it all will not be counted

On April 26 2012 09:47 Radfield wrote:
Don't cut down my case by calling it a gut read.

I'll admit that the voting section is slightly weaker than I like, but it is only part of a body of evidence. I think there are numerous tells in your posting that show a mafia mindset.

On April 26 2012 09:24 Radfield wrote:
I think VE is very likely scum. His posts consistently show a non-town mindset, both in his reasoning, and the things he chooses to point out. I won't say he's been explicitly pushing mafia objectives, because I don't think that's what he's been doing. I think he's trying to blend in, and stay on the periphery.

As such, I'm going to be detailing how certain posts show a mafia oriented mindset. I'd also like to illustrate that I don't think VE really ever gave a crap about who we voted(or who he voted) for Day 1, despite the fact that he spent a lot of time talking about the lynch.

On April 26 2012 09:24 Radfield wrote:


This really is a bizarre first post. We're a few hours into the game, and VE is declaring that he thinks 5 players(everyone who has posted) are town. Why as a townie would you EVER say that? Why would you ever THINK that? It takes me the better part of Day 1 to begin to pick up town reads, and certainly more than a few posts.

Fact is, I agree with VE, that I think all five of those players(prplhz, forumite, zentor, Radfield, SamuelL) ARE town. I think VE came into the thread and saw that, and fired it out.

On April 26 2012 09:24 Radfield wrote:


This is a completely twisted way to look at meta. The fact that he was found suspicious on day 1 in another game is completely irrelevant to this game. The key is why he looked suspicious, how he was playing, and how it compares to this game. If no one found him suspicious in Newbie VI, that wouldn't matter, because the key is how his play in that game(and alignment) compare to this game.

I don't think a town player(at least not one who has played as much as VE) would look at a past game and say, " oh, people found him suspicious in that game, and I find him suspicious in this game, therefore I will reconsider my suspicions". It makes no sense.

He actually mentions this again later on, and again uses the same reasoning:+ Show Spoiler +
Again, the key is WHY he got in hot water, and how it compares to his play this game. Yet VE is not looking for that.

On April 26 2012 09:24 Radfield wrote:


Again, we have a failure here from VE. "Unless Rad and Ace are both scum (imba?) I have to believe that Rad is telling the truth about his claim". He is completely ignoring the other scenarios where I could be scum, other than just me and Ace being teammates. Yet VE states that unless they're both scum, Radfield must be town. Lets go through the other options, both of which have been pointed out by other players:

I am scum and trying to buy townie cred. I KNOW ace is town aligned, therefore I can get him off my back at a time when he is pressuring me. It was also pointed out that depending on mafia roles, they can surmise the likelihood of a counter-claim.

I am SK and trying to buy townie cred. I KNOW ace will go along with me. Either he is scum and now knows I am SK, or he is town and will likely believe my claim. It's a pure gamble though, and a less likely scenario.

Me and Ace both being teammates is actually quite unlikely. We would make a very formidable scum-team, and exposing ourselves with such a ballsy claim would be irrational and irresponsible.

VE immediately accepts my alignment as town, and in fact only questions whether I would fake claim as a townie. Town players should be questioning whether I am scum or not, NOT questioning whether I am actually vanilla town faking a cop check. Only mafia would question that, because they already KNOW I am town.

VisceraEyes wrote in response to Radfield:
I actually was looking for that Radfield. I didn't realize I had to outline my thought-process so clearly, but what I found when reading your game was a tendency to lurk and pop in with short, directionless posts. That led me to posit that he might have just learned something from that experience and is choosing to instead just let others post and observe. I never would have reached this conclusion unless I had been convinced to go reread the early part of your game, which is why attributed my reasoning to you...not because I'm sheeping you or buddying you or whatever.

On April 26 2012 09:24 Radfield wrote:



Straight up bizarre. No town player should have been remotely suspecting Zentor to get night-killed. There was no way mafia would ever kill him, he was way too massive of a distraction. If you are a townie, ask yourself this: Did you remotely expect Zentor to get killed night 1?

This shows a massive disconnect in VE's thought process from what a typical town view should have been.

On April 26 2012 09:24 Radfield wrote:


One more small contradiction. These two sentences do not make sense together. He claims first that he has no scumreads, yet then immediately claims that scum are putting less effort, which in theory would give you some really easy scumreads. If all the scum are just doggin it, then they should stick out like sore thumbs compared to "most everyone who's posting."

On April 26 2012 09:24 Radfield wrote:
AND NOW A WORD FROM OUR SPONSORS!

I'd like to take this commercial break to have you look at this quote, really look at it.


So first Forumite looked worse. However somehow Zentor and Forumite are on a see-saw, and forumite looks better the worse Zentor looks. This is ridiculous, and completely at odds with proper scum hunting, which VE knows full well.

Additionally, here is VE's read from Day 1 on Forumite:


Forumite is town, and in no way does VE insinuate that he finds Forumite scummy. Yet somehow on Day 2 Forumite has crawled his way up to only "looking okay", when VE clearly stated he saw Forumite as Town on Day 1. Conundrum and Contradiction.

On April 26 2012 09:24 Radfield wrote:
AND WE"RE BACK!

I want to detail how I don't think VE really cared about our Day 1 lynch, but I'm having trouble setting it down in text, as I think it's kind of subtle. I'm not going to use quotes, so I highly recommend you go back and read the relevant section in VE's filter(or better yet, the full game text).

Short form is this:

VE never actually does any scum-hunting on Day 1, nor does he ever actually try to push a lynch. He bounces around, pushes a candidate here, throws some names out there, but never really commits. He begins by pushing an ace lynch, yet immediately after(as in next sentence) starts discussing lynching lurkers, particularly sbrubbles. His vote on Ace is so supremely weak that it doesn't merit a vote by a long shot.

He then switches onto sbrubbles for no reason than the fact that he has few posts. Yet sbrubbles few posts were jam packed with content, and showed obvious thought and care for the game.

VE keeps bouncing though, and it seems obvious to me that he was searching for an appropriate bandwagon. He makes plenty of weak suggestions - ace, myself, sbrubbles, marv - but refuses to run with any of them, and is constantly seeking approval of the other players.


I will also add that both VE's conciliatory tone, and lower than normal activity level raise my suspicions, but those are not by themselves scummy things. I think there is a body of evidence though that shows VE is not playing his usual town game, and is consistently displaying mafia thought patterns.

##Vote: Visceraeyes

On April 27 2012 03:14 Sbrubbles wrote:


Hmm, thanks, I didn't think he'd be refering to a previous post. That's partly answered, then, but I still find the change of heart odd. My point is answered, but I'd still like Toad's to be.

On April 24 2012 04:34 Radfield wrote:
Through the power of delegation I've made it back early

VE: My intention of voting you was simply to see how you would react to moderate pressure. In past games I've played with you you've gotten pretty panicky as scum when people start pushing you. My intention was to see your reaction, but I really couldn't follow through with any real pressure, since I haven't had the time.

I never really intended on getting you lynched, but when you disappeared it seemed out of character for you. Either way I don't think you are a good lynch candidate for today.


Likewise, I don't think voting Ace makes a lot of sense either. I've said this before and will say it again: Lynching a potentially strong player on day 1(in the absence of a strong case) is very poor play. In this game that would be myself, Ace and Sandro, as I would say all three of us are consistently strong town-aligned players. Lynching any of the three of us only does mafia a favor.

Shrubbles actually looks ok to me right now. He really only has two posts, as two of his posts are back to back. Though actually now that I look at it, they are timestamped on the exact same minute...

+ Show Spoiler +

How did you manage to write up that second post in 1 minute? I suppose you could have written it up beforehand, but if so, then why did you make two seperate posts? That makes no sense, so please explain.

Marvellosity seems like an ok lynch, though in the newbie game(Newbie VI) I hosted, marvellosity really only posted one liners during day 1, which is what he's doing here as well. I'd like to compare and contrast the two game before I make any serious judgement.

##unvote

On April 28 2012 07:06 Radfield wrote:
I actually still haven't gone back and looked at marvellosity's play in Newbie VI. I think the prospect of comparing one-liners is too tedious a task for me, because I've put it off like 5 times

Also, you were not the only person suspicious of Ace. There is a reason I checked him after all. Not to mention, what are you even insinuating here? That me and Ace are scum buddies?

Also, please show me where I waffled on thinking you are scum. Me not responding to your defense has nothing to do with whether I agree with it or not. It has to do with time, and how much of it I have. The short version is that I still think you're scum.

I think Marv is probably town.

On April 28 2012 07:06 Radfield wrote:
Also, you were not the only person suspicious of Ace. There is a reason I checked him after all. Not to mention, what are you even insinuating here? That me and Ace are scum buddies?

On April 28 2012 07:10 Radfield wrote:
I bet I get shot before you this game VE

On May 07 2012 04:38 Sbrubbles wrote:


I was totally sure about him being scum, thanks to you.

If that was even partly on purpose, gj.