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On April 30 2012 06:44 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 06:42 strongandbig wrote: Well, I don't think an Ace lynch is looking in the cards for today.
I haven't really heard anything from Marv that strongly changes my mind about what I said earlier.
##unvote ##vote: Marvellosity
Still not sure about this. If you're not sure then why are you voting him? Please, a couple of sentences if you would be so kind!
I explained above how I felt about switching to Marvellosity, but I'll post it again here for you.
I think it's odd that he hasn't been posting strong cases in this thread, or actually any cases at all. I could see that being because he just doesn't have any scum reads, as he claims, but I find that unlikely - at least in my opinion there has been plenty of scummy behavior so far by plenty of people. It kind of reminds me of how I behaved in my first and so far only scum game, in space station mafia, were I ended up posting reads and cases that everyone attacked as flimsy and noncommittal. I didn't even intend to do that out of a sense that I should avoid committing to positions, it was just a subconscious effect of actually knowing who scum was rather than trying to figure that out.
So I don't know that Marvellosity is scum, but I think there's a higher chance that he is than if it were a random player. I think that chance is high enough that I'm okay with the lynch, especially given his apathetic response this afternoon.
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On April 30 2012 06:55 Ace wrote: How can you lurk the entire day and then show up to hammer marvellosity?
EVERYONE UNVOTE MARV! HE IS MORE THAN LIKELY TOWN! LOOK, A LURKER POPPED IN AND HAMMERED HIM OUT OF NO WHERE!
Marv has stopped trying and told people to vote him.
Where's the "EVERYONE VOTE ZENTOR HE'S NOT TRYING AND TOLD US TO VOTE HIM" "oh well more prize money for us" Ace of yesteryear?
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On April 30 2012 07:15 marvellosity wrote: s&b, you're a silly boy, you know very well I'm town.
T____T
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On April 30 2012 07:17 marvellosity wrote: Like I asked you before s&b - you don't think I could have fabricated some sort of case on someone if I had so desired?
I could probably make a decent case on any of Sbrubbles/prplhz/forumite if I actually believed in it.
I do - but let me ask you, after the Zentor fiasco, why would you decide to start Zentoring yourself today? There were only like three solid votes on you at the point where you just gave up...
BTW I actually randomly got put in a game with MrZentor on bnet. Weird.
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Well, Snarfs left us a pretty good last case. And prplhz's response to it hasn't been compelling. Plus he's completely ignored my response to his case on me.
I still think Ace is also scum but ##vote: prplhz
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Ebwop his "case" on me
Also @ "coming around" wtf are you talking about. He posted once between posting his case on you and dying, and that post was supporting and pushing the same case. On you.
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Bluelightz, what is your opinion of the case Snarfs made agains prplhz and ace? It was extremely compelling to me, but I notice that you have both of them in your "probably town" list. That's very odd to me.
I'm glad you "have your doubts" about me being scum, seeing as the only case anyone has made against me is prplhz's "herp derp he's scum guys," and he hasnt even mentioned any of my answers.
Also where the fuck is forumite? Does he usually go missing for days at a time with no explanation like this?
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Ebwop the cases he made against prp and ace, we shouldn't necessarily assume that if one is right or wrong then the other one is as well.
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Alright I'm just really fucking confused right now. Where did the votes on Phagga come from? I'm by no means convinced that he's town but as far as I can remember no one has even made a real case on him... Forumite can you explain to me why you think Phagga is scummier than Prplhz or Bluelightz?
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I am a huge supporter of an ace lynch today. I don't think he's been playing pro-town at all.
This buddying between forumite and prplhz where they both just assert that the other one is "most likely town" without giving any reasons makes no sense to me. Unless they're both masons or something, which would just be trollolol given how this game started off.
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UNOFFICIAL VOTECOUNT, LYNCH IN ~6 HOURS Seven alive, majority is four
Prplhz (3): Strongandbig Phagga Sbrubbles
Bluelightz
Phagga (2): Prplhz Forumite
Forumite (1): Bluelightz
Strongandbig (0):
prplhz
Not yet voted: Ace
Bluelightz, if you actually want to get someone who might be scum lynched, you should change your vote back to prplhz. I agree that Forumite has been acting kind of suspiciously, although I think less so than Ace or prplhz; but we're currently heading towards a no lynch, so even if Forumite is your #1 scumread you should change your vote to prplhz.
Let me summarize some key points from Snarfs' case on prplhz that haven't been answered to my satisfaction:
- He started day 1 going after MrZentor, but as soon as I made my case on Snarfs he voted him with no explanation, trying to sheep whatever he thought the town bandwagon would be;
- He posted a case on Zentor right at the end of the day when it was too late to discuss, despite having written it earlier;
- He lurked most of day 2, and joined in the "focus on Zentor, don't talk about other lynch targets" thing;
- He claimed to want to avoid a no lynch day 3, but then kept throwing around random targets, including his absolutely inane "case" against me - which he seems to be sticking with;
- He also hasn't been at all interested in discussing his case on me, or responding to my answers, which he would do if he was really a townie who thought I was scum;
I still have no clue why Forumite is so insistent that prplhz is town. It's really making me think that Forumite might be one of the scum, instead of (or even together with) Ace. But either way, he seems pretty insistent on it.
So to Ace and Bluelightz - at least one of you is probably town. Either (1) vote for prplhz, (2) tell me why you're so incredibly sure that he's town that you're willing to take another no lynch, or (3) make a case on someone else that's so ridiculously strong that there will be a mass switch to them in the next six hours.
Actually forget number three, because it would take a case as persuasive as Radfield's on VE, and I don't think either of you are going to do that. Vote for prplhz, or tell us why you'd prefer a no lynch.
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On May 03 2012 00:52 Bluelightz wrote: I don't mind a no-lynch today as if we ML we'll be lylo tommorow :/. If there is any information roles its good I guess :| .
Oh, s&b please answer this: WHY ARE YOU SO FUCKING SURE PRP IS SCUM? I THINK HE'S TOWN. I'M NOT VOTING HIM. YOU GOT THAT?. WHY ARE YOU SO MUCH TRYING TO SECURE THIS (MAYBE) MISLYNCH?
Because of the case snarfs made on him. It was very persuasive. Snarfs analyzed everything that prp had done this game and explained how it made way more sense from a mafia mindset than it did from a town mindset. And nothing prp or anyone else has said since then has explained his actions.
Here is a link to that case.
Also if you're so sure he's town why did you vote him like three hours ago?
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Also - if "making a real fucking case" is so important to persuading people, why don't you make one against forumite, if he's your top scum read?
Finally - being in MYLO tomorrow is actually worse for town than being in LYLO, because it's harder to lynch correctly with more targets. That's also something snarfs explained in his big post before he died. Unless you plan on no-lynching tomorrow, we don't actually gain any time by no lynching today; and even if we no lynch both today and tomorrow, giving ourselves an extra day, that puts scum in control over who dies rather than town.
During day 3, it benefits mafia much more than town to cause a no-lynch rather than a mislynch. The only thing town has to gain is another no-lynch, which they have to use in order for it to be remotely beneficial. Even then, you are sacrificing a confirmed alignment of a suspicious player for an extra day where that player is still alive.
The tradeoff is this: - 2 suspicious town members dead, 2 not suspicious town members killed by mafia, going into lylo on day 5 (3:2 town:scum) vs - 1 suspicious town member dead, 3 not suspicious town members killed by mafia, going into lylo on day 6 (3:2 town:scum
Scum would much rather be in charge of which town members are dying than letting town kill off their most suspicious reads to work their way towards lynching red. Especially when one of those town members is a town-vigilante ("confirmed" town).
And remember, the second option only occurs if town actually no-lynches a second time. If mafia can convince town to mislynch twice in two days, then no-lynching on day 3 was a huge win for them.
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+ Show Spoiler [Purplehaze's first defense post] +On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: My cases are always short and always weak, that's probably one of the reasons nobody ever listens to me. I could mention my case on MrZentor in Death Factory Mafia 2, you can go read that. It's a more wordy version of the case I have on strongandbig right now but it's pretty much the same. Or you can look at the case I made on Artanis[Xp] in TL Mafia LVI, that was equally "weak". You can also look at how I just dismiss Artanis[Xp]'s defense in that game, I'm pretty sure he is scum and I don't want to argue shit with him. I know my case is "weak" because I can't really explain it any more to you than what I've already done. The most important thing I'm doing is that I'm pointing out that he is scum and telling you to read his filter and then that should convince. This isn't a real argument. prplhz is saying "I'm not making weak cases because I'm scummy, I'm making weak cases because that's what I always do. BTW guys he's scum." That doesn't actually explain why the cases are weak. Basically, this is a perfect way for mafia to hide; if you never have to make a real case on anyone because you just don't ever make real cases on anyone, then people can't suspect you for not ever making actual cases on anyone. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: I'm also perfectly aware that my day1 and day2 were ruined by some guy who decided to make those a horrible experience for me by demonstratively being a douchebag. That's also why I had a break day2, I couldn't read one more of his posts after the "Why are you even playing this game?" post so I took some time off of teamliquid.net.
This is impossible to verify. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: All I can say is that I'm pretty sure that strongandbig is scum and now I'm pushing it as hard as I can.
lol. "the important part is where I say he smells like scum." On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: As for the "he's trying to set up day2 lynch", why is that even scum? I'm never trying to ruin discussion (and we have always had plenty of time for that even though he didn't use it all that well), I was telling Radfield that we were lynching MrZentor as a way of pushing MrZentor. I didn't want people to leave his lynch and if I didn't fight for it then it might not happen.
This is patently false. There was no need to push the Zentor lynch so hard; the bandwagon was moving. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: Even though you are really tunneling me right here you played a pretty good game, I was absolutely sure that you were town even before your shot on VisceraEyes and that shot was also really nice.
Sucking up to people attacking you seems pretty scummy to me. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: For people reading Snarfs' case on me, don't ask yourself "Is this scum?", because you can always find a way to spin something as scummy (which Snarfs shows quite skillfully in his analysis of me), you should ask yourself "Is this something scum is likely to do?" and then you should read my filter. And ask me questions 'cause I'm around. The WIFOM defense. He can't be scum, because scum wouldn't do that! If it's scummy then it's scummy then it's scummy then lynch it.
+ Show Spoiler [Purplehaze's second defense post] +On May 01 2012 05:28 prplhz wrote: strongandbig made false contributions, marvellosity was very blunt in his opinions. Really, it's not just what they said 'cause people say tons of shit all the time, it's the way they said it. When I say that strongandbig's filter is empty then I don't mean that if you click it then no posts show up, I mean that all his posts are pretty useless and it looks like he's just skirting by. It's gutty and we can lynch phagga instead if you want to but my gut tells me that strongandbig is the way to go. I wasn't perfectly sure about marvellosity's innocence until he said, at 4 votes and a bunch of people in the lurk, "people, just lynch me" because scum would never ever say stuff like that, it's too dangerous especially when there are lurkers about.
Pretty sure Zentor said that same stuff. He just was more of a dick about it. We were even talking in the thread about how giving up like that can be a scum tell. Anyway this is a bunch of unwarranted assertions with no evidence, which aren't actually true. He eventually admits his read on me is a gut read too. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: "But how do you know that there are lurkers about?" there are always people coming in close to deadline. Even though 2.5 hours before was cutting it a little short for a vote-switch, just see how many people showed up (and later than me), we could easily have succeeded!
I'm pretty pissed that you and Forumite and Sbrubbles weren't sufficiently around to agree to a no-lynch, or even a switch to someone else because that would have helped us a lot.
See Snarf's post (the part I quoted) for the explanation of why a no-lynch is better for scum than a mislynch. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: I wasn't around day2? I was around in the beginning to secure the lynch and then I took a break. I was around again day3.
See above. Excuses for lurking = scummy imo. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: No, I'm not going to tell you why I was very sure that you were town. I'm not blue or anything it was just how you appeared to me in the thread.
More gut reads with no evidence or assertions or anything. Great for scum, since their town gut reads never have to be wrong! On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: marvellosity was mislynched and I unvoted with him at 6 votes. I was a little conflicted about this because I thought people might yell at me for ultimately voting for a guy who I was simultaneously saying was town, but when I saw that his lynch was secure I unvoted him.
Admits that he changes his actions based on what will get him criticized the least. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: If you read the thread you can see me ask you three people who wanted to lynch him to take care of business and brow beat people into doing whatever you felt like, even though I prefer lynches to no-lynches it's not really me who should be trying to secure it when I'm quite sure it's a mislynch.
This doesn't make sense. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: There was no desperation, and how would desperation even be scummy?
The "desperation" is in the fact that the case just doesn't exist. I "smell scummy to you"? Really, you just picked me out of a fucking hat. That's how serious your "case" seems. On May 01 2012 04:16 prplhz wrote: Why would I, in your words, be "desperate" and make up a "weak case" that I would "have to follow" when a mislynch was coming up? Why would I up to the deadline say "this guy is really town, look at him and the stuff he is saying" and try to convince you three of a no-lynch (you were the reason we mislynched, a mislynch is only preferable if people think that the person is actually scum). Really, I was doing what was best for town and while you say that 2.5 hours before deadline is a little late, look when everybody else came in. Even later.
Now, let me talk about what he hasn't responded to at all in Snarf's case.
- There's the fact that puprlehaze combined a defense of VE and a push to keep Radfield from talking about non-Zentor lynch candidates, in the same post.
- There's the random jumping around between lynch targets on Day 3.
- There's the random jumping to Phagga as a lynch target today, too.
Seriously, his whole filter is basically "pick someone random (me in this case) and tunnel them for no reason" combined with "but also randomly throw in votes and accusations at basically everyone else without ever explaining any reasons for those either."
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Ace: Is your argument that prplhz is more likely scum than phagga because he's got more votes on him, and you think the remaining scum are going to vote for the same person?
It seems very unlikely to me that phagga is scum, since I don't think scum would have started bussing each other as early on as he started attacking VE + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:ok, catching up. game mechanics stuff: - Hydras should sign. Everything else lowers transparency for town. - After reading all the pros and cons, I'd support a mason claim day 2. Reason: Many Vets + 2 masons = too many targets to handle for scum. D3 might be too late because of counterclaim (depends on nightkills and SK situation). On to more important stuff in no particular order: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction.
I also don't think that they would have kept at for more than one post, much less have made it pretty much the only thing they were saying: + Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 02:50 phagga wrote: I was not on the whole time, but whatever.
Yes, I still think VE is fishy, one post with some halfbaked accusations is not gonna change that. And no, I am not up for a Radfield or Ace lynch, as I think bot VE or MrZentor are better targets. Sbrubbles lurking is disappointing, but that's rather a last resort.
I would like to hear something from MrZentor soon.
Also, I think s&b's case on Snarf is rather stretched, I don't see any of the two as scummy currently.
Bluelightz defense of VE seems strange, even for him. I know he can be superlazy, but normally he is still making sense as town somehow. Still not on the scummy side however.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 21:39 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 20:45 Bluelightz wrote:On April 23 2012 20:39 prplhz wrote: I don't recall saying "HURR DURR" and I don't know how any of that qualifies as "speculation", but alright. its an exaggeration. Anyway, if you guys want my thoughts on VE, here it is VE is town.This is what I argue when I claim town on day 1 etc, Would scum REALLY put themselves in the spotlight like that? Uh, my impression is that he exactly tried to avoid putting himself in the spotlight. He has 5 posts, which are a town list, 2 defensive posts about himself and zentor, a heart to rad and a post about game mechanics where he also tries to find out more about Aces possible plan(s). That's not putting yourself in the spotlight. Actually, that last post seems a bit strange, now that I read it again. He has not activily participated in this discussion about game mechanics but suddenly seems interested in knowing how Ace would deal with the situation? When I look through his posts again, this one feels out of place in comparison to the others. + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 00:08 VisceraEyes wrote:@Ace: I think it looks a lot like your Hypothetical Situation 2. The only issue I have with it is that we don't know if there's a cop OR medic present, where your HS2 was assuming an open setup. Wanna walk me through how your plan works if there are no medics/cops present Ace? Also, he is one of the few people who is not openly supporting a mason claim. @Radfield: + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 19:22 Radfield wrote:Marvellosity, you need to step it up. More content please. Also, if you want filters do the work and make them yourself, it takes all of 5 minutes. Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:ok, catching up. game mechanics stuff: - Hydras should sign. Everything else lowers transparency for town. - After reading all the pros and cons, I'd support a mason claim day 2. Reason: Many Vets + 2 masons = too many targets to handle for scum. D3 might be too late because of counterclaim (depends on nightkills and SK situation). On to more important stuff in no particular order: Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. This is the definition of a 'safe' post. Everything in this post is a popular opinion that has already been mentioned by someone else. It hits slightly on all the major points of this game, without going into detail on any of them. Zentor -> parroting Forumite and talking like Zentor is scum, yet not stating that explicitly nor voting for him. Visceraeyes -> following Toads lead(backed by me), and again indirectly talking as if Visceraeyes is scum(or SK), without actually saying it. Ace and Radfield -> again parroting others points and slinging a bit of mud towards two strong players, without actually calling them out. So phagga, what is your actual opinion here? You seem to think both Zentor and VE are scummy, yet are doing nothing about it. Additionally, I have responded to Shrubbles, what do you think of my response? My problem is that I have a hard time making out something new, something that has not been said yet. There is not much content so far (which is partially my fault), and there is a lot of game mechanics talk that does not really show anything about the alignement of players, specially as pretty much everyone involved in the discussion agrees on the general concept. What exactly do you expect? That I'm going to make stuff up only for the sake of being original? Also, You can believe me or not, but the fact that Ace was only talking about game mechanics and not trying to scum hunt crossed my mind before he was called out for this by someone else. Alas, I was too slow, so it looks like I'm parroting. I'm still a bit undecided on who to vote on, which is way I have not voted yet. I think it is going to be VisceraEyes for now, but I want to read through Zentors filter first. Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 18:37 Radfield wrote:On April 23 2012 12:39 Sbrubbles wrote: Radfield, you are the one looking the most suspicious to me right now. On the Zentor/prplhz exchange, you defend Zentor, but agree with Forumite on Zentor's case on prplhz being weak:
1Correct. I'm not sure what you find suspicious about that. Someone making a weak case is certainly no indication of them being scum, especially when that case is made in the first half of day 1 I didn't think Zentor's case was strong, yet I also didn't see Zentor as scum. However, both of those things may change with time. And now, you're indirectly accusing prplhz, even though there has been no case on him (besides Zentor's, which you implied was weak) and haven't made one of your own. What's up with that? 2Something about prplhz is tickling my senses, though I haven't reread the game yet. I started to last night, but was too tired to focus. So now I'm up early with the intention of putting in some time before work. Prplhz is simply a bit too quiet for my liking at any rate. Also, you were the first to offer to vote VE (without an actual explanation as to why), and waited until someone else appeared voting for him in order to actually cast your vote. Is this merely a coincidence or were you waiting for someone else to accuse and vote him in order for yourself not to stand out?
3My reasons are my own for voting VE, though they will materialize in the thread before the day is out. The short version is that I've played scum with VE lately, and so far this reminds me of that game. 1 I agree with you that it's no issue. 2 So you just fling some mud into a vets direction without any hard facts? 3So you have a good reason to vote VE, but withhold because... well, you keep us in the dark why you are not telling us. why can't you tell us? Is the explanation going to be so long, are you waiting for more info? I don't see you as scum atm. I just thought that sbrubbles actually saw two good points (the second and the third) and I wanted to point out that I share his sentiment and that I want your reaction too. Note that all three of those were before Radfield made his bigass case on VE and everyone realized VE was scum.
Then he kept on it after that huge case:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 02:50 phagga wrote: I was not on the whole time, but whatever.
Yes, I still think VE is fishy, one post with some halfbaked accusations is not gonna change that. And no, I am not up for a Radfield or Ace lynch, as I think bot VE or MrZentor are better targets. Sbrubbles lurking is disappointing, but that's rather a last resort.
I would like to hear something from MrZentor soon.
Also, I think s&b's case on Snarf is rather stretched, I don't see any of the two as scummy currently.
Bluelightz defense of VE seems strange, even for him. I know he can be superlazy, but normally he is still making sense as town somehow. Still not on the scummy side however.
So Ace tell me, why do you find Phagga more suspicious than prplhz? Or sbrubbles for that matter?
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On May 03 2012 05:38 Forumite wrote: What now? I don´t expect Sbrubbles or S&B to switch, and I don´t want to lynch prplhz over phagga.
Why don't you want to lynch prplhz over phagga?
I do want to lynch prplhz over phagga.
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yeah phagga dont do that....... ugh.
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I left at ten minutes before the deadline because I was playing starcraft.
nothing should happen ten minutes before deadline.
prplhz what was the point of you trying so hard to persuade phagga not to vote himself? If you think he's scum?
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I agree with prplhz on this one.
After this shit-show festival of retardation I'm starting to consider that neither prp nor phagga may be scum.
Just... so... retarded...
We should lynch ace or forumite imo.
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