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@Dr3am:
First off, I would like to clarify my stance on D1 lynch. I do not think D1 is bad. Done.
What I was getting at was that there is no reason to rush it or force it just for the sake of voting. Right? I think I made myself clear now.
a) I understand what you are getting at but your wording got me little confused. Also I had no idea how you got from discouraging no lynch to acquiring information from good discussion is the best way, not that I disagree. Next time, please reread your to make sure it makes sense.
b) I have Maj as overly eager new player and yomi as eithera scum or an idiot. And nobody else said anything. Your post caught my attention because it sounds as there is a content but there really isn't. It only state that people should vote and good discussion is good which are pretty obvious.
c) I'm not convinced that you are a scum yet, but overly eager expression for town "justice will prevail" and seemingly content -less post about D1 lynch tickle me in the ear. Also from my experience, scum always say that they won't be around for the deadline.
Conclusion: Dr3am is not a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. I hope my answers satisfied your questions.
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What have I accused you of that is unfounded?
You've 3 times accused me of being mafia and 3 times now have given no reason why despite the questioning of multiple individuals.
When did I pressure everyone to vote for you?
This I agree you did not say outright. However, you did pressure everyone to vote when we have not heard from many players. It seems logical to assume that you would like others to vote for me as well. As only one name (mine) has been proposed to be lynched, it seems quite obvious that you are attempting to get people to lynch me while giving to evidence as to why.
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On April 23 2012 11:31 yomi wrote:
Please quote me saying these things.
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On April 23 2012 11:57 yomi wrote:
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia
As for the part about pressuring people to lynch me, I have already admitted that was based off thought process rather than direct quotation. And that's 4 times you have given no evidence as to why I would be mafia. You should either give evidence or admit that the accusation is baseless.
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@Dr3am:
First off, I would like to clarify my stance on D1 lynch. I do not think D1 is bad. Done.
What I was getting at was that there is no reason to rush it or force it just for the sake of voting. Right? I think I made myself clear now.
a) I understand what you are getting at but your wording got me little confused. Also I had no idea how you got from discouraging no lynch to acquiring information from good discussion is the best way, not that I disagree. Next time, please reread your to make sure it makes sense.
b) I have Maj as overly eager new player and yomi as eithera scum or an idiot. And nobody else said anything. Your post caught my attention because it sounds as there is a content but there really isn't. It only state that people should vote and good discussion is good which are pretty obvious.
c) I'm not convinced that you are a scum yet, but overly eager expression for town "justice will prevail" and seemingly content -less post about D1 lynch tickle me in the ear. Also from my experience, scum always say that they won't be around for the deadline.
Conclusion: Dr3am is not a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. I hope my answers satisfied your questions.
Looking at your comments you said that this was your first game, where have you come across before that scum say they won't be present at the deadline?
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is this not your first game maju?
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On April 23 2012 13:59 yomi wrote:
is this not your first game maju?
It is, I just wanted to get clarification on the source of Daniel's statement since it could help tell if dr3am is mafia.
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Hello everyone,
Just had the opportunity to go through the thread. I would like to reiterate ForTheDr3am's assertion that lynching on day 1 is crucial. First of all, if we hit scum, then we are way ahead of the game, as it is balanced around not killing scum day 1. Secondly, the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching. If we don't lynch day 1, we lose an entire day's worth of crucial information, which when you consider a lot of games last only 4-5 days, that's a TON of information left out.
And I have a couple of questions for Yomi:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 08:12 yomi wrote:
hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do
##vote: majugarzett
1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.
You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz.
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway.
2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened?
Please answer these questions, especially #1. St.Daniel and Dream have both asked that question, and we all want an answer.
And lastly, would everyone who is still lurking stop by the thread? I know it's hard sometimes to get the time to really analyze the thread in, but it would really do town a lot of good, and it's a lot easier if you start now when the thread is relatively small.
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Greetings,
I'd like to first note that I'm studying in Hong Kong at the moment (i'm still unadjusted to time differences). But anyways, here are my thoughts;
-Arctic Fox
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 07:09 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 06:10 MajuGarzett wrote:On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad. I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia. Why wouldn't someone need help this early? When I played my first game, I was bugging my coach a day and a half before it started. Not too many people have posted so far. Game started like 5 hours or so earlier than we expected, so I guess that's natural. But I will be checking to see who hasn't posted so we can start making people talk. The most important thing is for everyone to be active. If we allow people not to post, it also allows scum not to post, which is the easiest way for them to play. I would highly suggest that everyone make a notepad file or excel sheet and start keeping tabs of who they think is giving off townie and scummy vibes. As the game gets longer, it will be very helpful to have a quick guide to go back to for remembering how you felt about everyone. It will help you when you re-read filters as well to see how it lines up with the notes you've taken. As it stands, there are now 7 people who haven't posted yet. Last game we nearly lynched scum Day 1 because we had some really good discussion going right out of the gate. For example: Maju's idea to lynch lurkers. It's so standard that it's not even really worth discussing, BUT it's the only thing that's been brought up, so when you make your first post, post your thoughts on it. My personal thought is I want the game to be active enough that we don't have to, but if you won't talk, you can hang. Discuss! (P.S. Zealos stop acting so scummy, unless you *are* scum, in which case continue so we can lynch you first. <3)
A number of suggestions are made, such as encouraging town discussion (particularly to weed out lurkers), creating our own notes to better understand our thoughts, and to discuss Maju's suggestion of lynch lurkers. I find these agreeable, and am finding myself drawn to his strong town-like influence. This is enhanced by the fact that he notes Zealos is scum without actually outright accusing him. He starts with my heavy support as townie, but I’m a little worried in the end he's a mafia that will kill us all. You won't know till we read more into his posts.
-ForTheDr3am
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad.
The juxtaposition of these comments had me suspicious. Zealos and MajuGarzett had some banter in beginning, before ForTheDr3am jumps in. I’m in the middle on FTD, as a later explanation is much more developed and concrete, although mostly defensive. He does however point out Zealou’s lack of content, except for this post really;
-Zealous
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 05:25 Zealos wrote:
I think it's not a useful thing to discuss early on and leads to little scumhunting and a poor town atmosphere.
I will state now that my first choice to vote is Zealous, on the grounds of lack of developed purpose in his posts, and the seemingly eager chance at throwing MajuGarzett under the bus.
-MajuGarzett
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 10:55 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.
You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz.
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway. I would still like to hear the reasoning on me being mafia. @forthedr3am: I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier, I meant there was no way to differentiate if he was mafia or blue.
I agree that MajuGarzett may be a “total dunce” in the sense that his posts are inciting chaos and making him a good target. However, I disagree that Maju should be voted so quickly yomi, because we shouldn’t be so quick to off a townie, on the grounds of “not much lost ...anyway”. BECAUSE MajuGarzett’s made himself to be a target (by what I believe is over-zealous townie work) offing him is an easy D1 for the mafia because they get an easy townie kill.
-St.Daniel
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 11:41 St.Daniel wrote:
@Dr3am:
First off, I would like to clarify my stance on D1 lynch. I do not think D1 is bad. Done.
What I was getting at was that there is no reason to rush it or force it just for the sake of voting. Right? I think I made myself clear now.
a) I understand what you are getting at but your wording got me little confused. Also I had no idea how you got from discouraging no lynch to acquiring information from good discussion is the best way, not that I disagree. Next time, please reread your to make sure it makes sense.
b) I have Maj as overly eager new player and yomi as eithera scum or an idiot. And nobody else said anything. Your post caught my attention because it sounds as there is a content but there really isn't. It only state that people should vote and good discussion is good which are pretty obvious.
c) I'm not convinced that you are a scum yet, but overly eager expression for town "justice will prevail" and seemingly content -less post about D1 lynch tickle me in the ear. Also from my experience, scum always say that they won't be around for the deadline.
Conclusion: Dr3am is not a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. I hope my answers satisfied your questions.
I do believe you were awkwardly (unjustly) accused in the beginning for asking a question. It also looks like we have the same read on Maju (b). Dr3am seems innocent enough to me, as he threw off Zealous from his back, and does only seem concerned with good town discussion. But he's had to be defensive, so I don't know yet.
-Yomi
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 08:12 yomi wrote:
hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do
##vote: majugarzett
I honestly don’t know what’s going on with Yomi. He’s the first to eagerly vote off MajuGarzett (under the bus theory?) which seems scummy, but not much else has been said otherwise. I’m kinda confused about his play otherwise.
I’d like to also note my stance on pressuring people who haven’t posted (or posted little content) to post. So lurkers, please post!
P.S.
+ Show Spoiler + I may use the pronoun He more than I should, and if I incorrectly do so please feel free to scold / correct me.
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On April 23 2012 14:39 mutant wrote:
1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened?
Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching.
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On April 23 2012 15:21 yomi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 14:39 mutant wrote:
1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened?
Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching.
Then why do you keep avoiding giving reasons for voting for me? If starting discussion was truly your motive you would have done so by now.
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i told you why I voted for you. btw you are annoying i'm not talking to you any more for the next 12 hours
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Hi, so the game got finally started.
I have read through the posts, and thus far we have this:
- Lynch could be good. It weeds out lurkers, whom must/can be scum".
- Being dunce is valid for targeting.
- A good discussion is good, it nearly got a scum on day 1 in another game.
- Yomi and Maju accusing each other.
- Zealous accusing Maju, which results in ArticFox and nreekay324 thinking Zealous is scummy.
- Dream stating the validity of good discussions, while he states he will not be around for deadlines.
- Those who post are less scummy.
It may because I am a rookie, but it all seems very muddy. And to me, people stating "In the last game..." makes me think that a person knowing the behaviorism of both parties can emulate either one, and as such manipulate to their fitting. And while being aggressive can get this party started, it makes me feel some eager to muddy up the place with "information" on the basis of accusing left and right. It it works, it must be based on luck, if you ask me.
I am okay with a d1 lynch, IF it is on the basis of valid information.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I'm not sure what to think of Yomi at the moment. He is posting in the same erratic way as last game, where we were both scum, but I think that is just how he posts generally. I'm not really sure whether it tells us he is scum or not. However the voting so early in the same post as saying he wasn't sure about lynching someone day 1 is a good idea. He also still has not given a real reason why he voted for Maju.
As for Maju, I think the post about Daniel being either blue or scum is stupid but doesn't strike me as scummy play. Why would scum tell everyone who they want to kill. Is a bit over defensive at yomi's baseless accusations but that could just be him being new to the game.
Arctic posted a ton of suggestions but didn't actually post anything of real worth. It's certainly something to keep an eye on because it's an easy way for scum to look like they are helping.
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Greetings,
Finally I have the time to read up the thread and start my posts:
1) I think this is the trend for the game to lynch lurker in D1 because most of the people here will agree lurker is a scum or badtown so we lose nothing to lynch them out. What if everyone is active and no lurker is around then we might consider no lynch in D1 or lynching the most suspicious person to gain most information from the others.
@Mutant, he stated that it is balanced around not killing scum day 1, this only balance when we mislynch a townie in day1 what if we mislynch a vig? doc? or DT? It would be a big disadvantage to the town.
2) About the yumi and maju case both of them can be townie accusing each other because we don't have sufficient evidence to support either of them yet. It could be a scam accsuing a town too hence we need to more disscussion.
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Shower done, coffee down, time to scumhunt!
##FoS: Zealos for being called out for scummy behavior last night and not responding to it. I'd like to see your responses to this accusation, and specifically why you think posts like:
On April 23 2012 05:30 Zealos wrote:
So you ask people the question to pressure them to make an answer, then follow by telling them that it was only to get them to answer. Nice.
and other such 1 line responses are helpful to town and not indicitave of scum behavior.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomi's play is already confusing. His first post was a random vote against a guy whose filter is reading very much like a first time town player (slightly clueless, but learning, active, and interested). His filter since then is full of gems like:
On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway.
On April 23 2012 11:31 yomi wrote:
I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie.
You don't vote to get rid of "dunces." You lynch to hit scum. If you don't think he's scum, there's no reason to vote him.
On April 23 2012 15:36 yomi wrote:
i told you why I voted for you. btw you are annoying i'm not talking to you any more for the next 12 hours
More 1-liners and aggression. Yomi's filter reads like Scum 101 right now -- he started a fight with a player, mucked up the thread with a bunch of nonsense, posted a couple of 1-liners he thought might make him look townie, then disappeared and hoped people would look at Maju instead of him. It didn't work on me.
##Vote: yomi
Yomi, if you'd like to rebutt, focus on hunting scum instead of your rabid defense and pointless bickering strategy.
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1) Yomi try to start the game with a random lynch on Maju trying to pressure him for discussion in my point of view , he is either trying to scumhunt or he is a scum. Also, he is not targeting the lurkers but Maju which is a bit werid for me. Btw why bring history in? This will only make you become more suspicious. I think that past history shouldn't be taken account hence this is a new game.
But I don't think Yomi is scum because it's simply too dangerous for scum to act in such way, high chance he will be lynch if he randomly target someone in this case who is Maju. For me it looks like scumhunt more than scum.
2) Zealots is pretty much a 1 liner who doesn't really contribute anything yet, he is a decent vote at the moment.
3)Well everyone has posted something but they didn't say much they just say lynch someone which could be suspicious such as dracolich and insecto we might need more from them.
4)Inmallinson just pointed out he's a mafia last game is this intentionally? hmm...
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 11:41 St.Daniel wrote:
@Dr3am:
First off, I would like to clarify my stance on D1 lynch. I do not think D1 is bad. Done.
What I was getting at was that there is no reason to rush it or force it just for the sake of voting. Right? I think I made myself clear now.
a) I understand what you are getting at but your wording got me little confused. Also I had no idea how you got from discouraging no lynch to acquiring information from good discussion is the best way, not that I disagree. Next time, please reread your to make sure it makes sense.
b) I have Maj as overly eager new player and yomi as eithera scum or an idiot. And nobody else said anything. Your post caught my attention because it sounds as there is a content but there really isn't. It only state that people should vote and good discussion is good which are pretty obvious.
c) I'm not convinced that you are a scum yet, but overly eager expression for town "justice will prevail" and seemingly content -less post about D1 lynch tickle me in the ear. Also from my experience, scum always say that they won't be around for the deadline.
Conclusion: Dr3am is not a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. I hope my answers satisfied your questions.
a) Fair enough.
b) That is wrong. ArcticFox and Zealos had both also posted already. You also say that the fact that people should vote is obvious - after you felt the need to clarify that people should not vote for the sake of voting, and said that you were confused by my wording.
c) It should be quite obvious from me asking for a deadline shift that I am saying the truth about not being around at the deadline. I suppose that was something that happened before the start of the game and takes a bit of putting points together itself.
I am not as happy with your answers as I wish I could be. No, I do not think that you are scum either but your post looked to me as if you tried to appear to participate in scumhunting without actually doing anything. While my first post was not the most substantial itself, claiming it to be content-less strikes me as odd.
I admit that everything I mentioned were only small details, but added together they give you an air of inconsistency which is not a strong scum-tell, but something I will keep in mind.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 18:23 Dracolich70 wrote:
Hi, so the game got finally started.
I have read through the posts, and thus far we have this:
- Lynch could be good. It weeds out lurkers, whom must/can be scum".
- Being dunce is valid for targeting.
- A good discussion is good, it nearly got a scum on day 1 in another game.
- Yomi and Maju accusing each other.
- Zealous accusing Maju, which results in ArticFox and nreekay324 thinking Zealous is scummy.
- Dream stating the validity of good discussions, while he states he will not be around for deadlines.
- Those who post are less scummy.
It may because I am a rookie, but it all seems very muddy. And to me, people stating "In the last game..." makes me think that a person knowing the behaviorism of both parties can emulate either one, and as such manipulate to their fitting. And while being aggressive can get this party started, it makes me feel some eager to muddy up the place with "information" on the basis of accusing left and right. It it works, it must be based on luck, if you ask me.
I am okay with a d1 lynch, IF it is on the basis of valid information.
This post is very weird even as a first post for a rookie. First, you post a list which is basically a mix of events and statements, so pretty much completely use- and contentless. The rest of the post apparently is written with the intention to slow down scumhunting. You state that people might be emulating behaviorism, which is quite pointless to say as scum will always try to appear as town, with or without reference play.
Then, you claim that making too many accusations will muddy up the place with fake/useless information, and that making cases is based on luck. You seem to be afraid of the town getting things done. Why would you be? You should be making cases yourself and analyzing people instead if you want to be helpful. Posts like this one make you seem like scum.
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Zealos' answer is still needed.
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As for yomi, I think the case against him is fairly obvious. First he says he isn't sure about day1 lynch, then votes Maju without explanation. Then he refuses (!) to explain himself. Then he flames some more.
On April 23 2012 15:21 yomi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 14:39 mutant wrote:
1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened?
Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching.
This statement isn't technically wrong, but he fails to realize that random votes without proper explanation don't help anyone, and shuts down any attempts of discussing his vote himself, claiming that Maju' is a dunce he won't talk to.
It's also strangely ironic that he wants to mention his last game where he was mafia, while in the last game he also tried to refer to outside posts of him to prove that his posting style is ... erratic in general.
It is bad to offer mafia a free bandwagon in case he actually is just a particularly unhelpful townie, but it seems that there is only one actual vote on him up to now, making me think that there are still people with an interest to keep him alive.
##Vote: yomi
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3)Well everyone has posted something but they didn't say much they just say lynch someone which could be suspicious such as dracolich and insecto we might need more from them. I am pretty sure I didn't say such a thing. I am pretty sure that was the direct opposite of what I said.
I am also pretty certain I have stated that I feel that a lot of people are just pointing fingers left and right for the most part, and seemingly this is going to continue. However, I am not going about be the front runner in a lynch mob, when I feel this way still, and joining in with the finger-pointing.
This being said, if you want something, then I think yomi is acting a bit weird to say the least. The only thing I think I agree with him on is the uncertainty of d1 lynches. For the most part he has responded with complete disinterest, and awkward behavior and responses, when responding. If it is something he does, when scum, or it's because he is one-dimensional, I do not know. Or even if it makes him scum.
Other than that I don't see a lot of substance.
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EPT
