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United States22154 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YpvJt.png)
*MidnightGladius is helping me co-host this game. Any questions can be directed towards him or myself.
Surprisingly Normal Mini Mafia X
+ Show Spoiler [Important Posts] +
Introduction:
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
5. Posting screenshots of your inbox.
6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host.
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits.
10. Sharing accounts with other players. Only you may post on your account.
11. Breadcrumbing the specific phrasing of your role PM. Do not compare the phrasing in your role PM to prove your alignment. You can claim the abilities you have, but you can't use the specific phrasing of your role PM
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font:
This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font:
This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs:
Are not allowed, if I catch you trying to smurf in my game (and I will), you can expect harsh retaliation. This is a newbie game, don't try to take advantage of it.
Spam:
Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing:
Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Flamewheel, or Mig before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally. I have zero tolerance for flaming.
Reporting posts:
The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to ME before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions:
Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Out of thread communication:
It is common for mafia (and town circles if PMs are allowed) to use a medium outside of TL such as QuickTopics or IRC to communicate during the game. Please be mindful that other players may be more tech savvy than you and they may attempt impersonate members of your team or attempt to infiltrate your chat. You use these media at your own risk.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes here, and only vote here. Do not PM me your vote.
2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: GMarshal. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance.
3. No conditional voting.
4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
5. This game uses Extended Majority Lynch. That is, at the deadline the player with a majority of votes is lynched (majority = 1/2 the remaining players, rounded down + 1), if no one has a majority then no lynch will take place.
6. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain. You MAY vote for a no lynch by posting ##Vote: No Lynch
Signups:
This game is open newbies only, that is, you must have played three or fewer game on TL.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills:
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Flamewheel or post in the Ban List.
Replacements
This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until Night 3. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list, assuming one is available, if no-one is available to replace, they will just be modkilled.
Do not request replacement without a good reason, or you may be banned for inactivity. PM me to discuss
Clues:
There are NO clues.
PMs
PMs are NOT allowed in this game.
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 24 hour night/48 hour day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is 02:00 GMT (+00:00), but that is subject to change. Actions/votes will be accepted up to but not including the posted time, but not after.
Credits:
Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer.
Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
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United States22154 Posts
Roles and Setup information
This is a semi-open setup, that is, exact role counts will not be known, but the possible roles will be known. All roles presented here are not necessarily in the game, but no roles not included here are present.
Town Roles
Town Wincondition- The town wins when there are no mafia left in the game
Vanilla Townie - You are just an ordinary citizen of the town of Liquidia, you are terrified of the mafia, and must strive to weed them out before the exterminate you and your fellow citizens. Every day you may vote for who you want to see lynched. Your wits and your votes will carry the town to glorious victory or shameful defeat.
Miller- You are just an ordinary citizen of the town of Liquidia, well, almost ordinary, unbeknownst to you, you sleep walk, and often end up visiting the graveyard and other suspicious locations, for that reason, you return Mafia to detectives who choose to check you. Millers are not informed that they are millers, rather they are given regular vanilla townie PMs.
Detective - You are a incredible sleuth, using your keen powers of deduction and the awesome astral charts from the seer's academy, you have the ability to inspect a player every night. You will find out if they are Town or Mafia. You are guaranteed to be sane, but beware of millers, framers and the godfather.
Medic - You are a recent medical school graduate, still struggling to pay the bills. Fortunately you have found employment here in Liquidia. Every night, you may choose to visit a player for a check up, if they would be hit that night, you manage to save them from the first kill aimed at them. Neither you nor your target will be notified of a successful protection.
Veteran - You are a survivor of the massacre of SNMMVI! The skills learned in that bitter struggle have taught you how to survive in even the harshest of situations, giving you an extra night life. That is, it takes two kill points to kill you. You will be notified if you get hit, and the medic protection absorbs hits before your extra life does.
Vigilante - You are an armed and dangerous fellow! You have secured a gun and are going to use it to take justice into your own hands. During any night of the game you may choose to fire at a player, this works exactly like a mafia hit. If your shot stacks with a mafia kill or another vigilante, it will not be refunded, if you are roleblocked, you will not lose your shot, even if you intended to fire that night.
Mafia Roles
Mafia Win condition- The mafia wins when they equal or outnumber the remaining townies or nothing can keep that from happening.
Mafia Powers - (all mafia have these, unless specifically stated otherwise) All mafia may vote, as ordinary citizens of liquidia. All mafia may communicate with each other outside the thread, by any means they wish, and know who the other mafia are. As a group, the mafia team have kp equal one, each night, which they may use however they want.
Mafia Goon- One of the newest recruits to the mafia, you are here to visit vengeance on the town. You have no special powers outside the regular mafia powers. Now destroy these fledgling fools, make them see the power of the mafia!
Mafia Roleblocker - An expert in the use of the terrible drug Nocando, in addition to the usual mafia powers, you can choose to visit a player each night and drug them, keeping them from performing any night actions. Regardless of their role, they will be notified that they were knocked out in the morning.
Mafia Framer - An ex-detective, you know exactly what those schmucks look for when investigating people. In addition to the normal mafia powers, you may choose to frame a player each night, making them return the opposite of what they should to detectives, that is a framed mafia goon returns Town and a framed Vanilla Townie returns Mafia
Mafia Godfather - The regional leader of the mafia, you know exactly what it takes to look innocent. In addition to the normal mafia powers, you return Town to any detective that investigates you.
Mafia Rolecop - An astrologist and soothslayer turned to crime, in addition to the usual mafia powers, you may investigate a player each night and find out their role.
Additionally, the mafia will receive copies of the Vanilla Townie PM and of each blue role, in order to prevent things like PM based closed ciphers.
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United States22154 Posts
Remember, three or fewer games played to sign up!
Player List
1.) insectoceanx
2.) St.Daniel replaced by Gossemerr
3.) Dracolich70 replaced by Stossel
4.) MajuGarzett
5.) oneplus
6.) nreekay324- Medic, killed night 1
7.) mutant replaced by Ydriel
8.) ArcticFox
9.) Zealos
10.) ForTheDr3am
11.) yomi- Vanilla Townie - lynched day 1
12.) imallinson
Filter
Replacements
3/3 Mafia Remaining
?/? Goon(s)
?/? Roleblocker(s)
?/? Framer(s)
?/? Godfather(s)
?/? Role cop(s)
Mafia KP currently equals 1
7/9 Town
??/?? Vanilla Townie(s)
??/?? Miller(s)
??/?? Detective(s)
??/?? Medic(s)
??/?? Veteran(s)
??/?? Vigilante(s)
As usual, PM me for the observer QT, or if you wish to be listed as an official coach
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United States22154 Posts
Newbie specific stuff
1.) Its already in the rules, but remember, no editing. I'd rather not modkill for this
2.) Behave as gentlemen (or ladies), things get heated here, but personal attacks are unacceptable, I *will* hold you to the same standards I would anywhere else on teamliquid.
3.) If there is an issue, or you don't understand something, or you think your brilliant plan may be against the spirit of the rules, PM me or MidnightGladius. There is no shame in asking.
4.) Don't talk about the game outside the game. Sometimes it can be tempting to discuss it in IRC with a friend, or someone who isn't playing, unless its a private conversation with someone you KNOW isn't in the game, its not a good idea. Getting advice from more experienced players is fine though, just let me know who you are going to for coaching.
5.) Make sure to have read the rules, ignorance is no excuse.
6.) This is a game, have fun, and don't carry grudges.
7.) Have fun, seriously.
Useful Guides
Coaches
sandroba, wherebugsgo, Jitsu, GreYMisT and Blazinghand have agreed to coach this game, bug them with any questions about how to play that you may have. Remember that coaches will not play *for* you, but they are useful to talk to.
They are a great resource, so make sure you ask them any questions you may have, however stupid it seems at the time.
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On April 16 2012 11:21 GMarshal wrote:
3.) If there is an issue, or you don't understand something, or you think your brilliant plan may be against the spirit of the rules, PM me or DoYouHas. There is no shame in asking.
sup
I can coach if needed GM btw
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mmm I think I'll go for it
/in
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I've technically been in four games, 2 games ended in a day1 or night1 death. Any chance I can /in? (compensation for killing me in SS :p)
If not I understand, rules are rules.
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This would be my first game! I hope I don't mess up XD
/in
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/in for the last of my newbie games!
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I would like to refresh my mafia skills
/in
Good luck everyone 
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You can put me down as a coach too GM.
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GLGL HFHF Everyone
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/in
shot night 1 so very much noob still
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Yay, shameless plug on QT worked :D
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/in
Last game I can play as a newbie :3
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Bump so more people see and we get it started sooner. =D
Hope I live longer....ObsQT is fun, but it's more fun mixing it up with everyone. >.>
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United States22154 Posts
On April 16 2012 23:30 froggynoddy wrote:
I've technically been in four games, 2 games ended in a day1 or night1 death. Any chance I can /in? (compensation for killing me in SS :p)
If not I understand, rules are rules.
Rules are rules, sorry, not even crushing guilt can make me bend them :-P
Coaches and player list updated.
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On April 20 2012 09:11 yomi wrote:
/in
Ahhhh....we meet again. >.>
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United States22154 Posts
On April 20 2012 08:27 mutant wrote:
You doing any better GM?
Slowly. but yes, at the very least I'm guaranteed to live :-P
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hurry up and start this
I have the mafia bug now
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On April 20 2012 13:06 yomi wrote:
hurry up and start this
I have the mafia bug now
Let me live for more than 1 night and I'll cure ya of that. >
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United States22154 Posts
On April 20 2012 13:06 yomi wrote:
hurry up and start this
I have the mafia bug now
Need one more!
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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GreYMisT is Coaching!SO? Do you want to learn to be a badass like this guy?![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LzFCb.jpg)
Well lets take a look at what he has that you don't!
1) A cool jacket Cape thing!
2) Smoke effects!
3) A Blue-Eyes White Dragon!
Will these things help you in mafia? OF COURSE!
Just Look at what people are saying about GreYMisT Coaching!
"I can't believe I have met someone better at mafia than me" -Ace
"This man...Is a God" -Foolishness
"I kill GreYMisT BEFORE mafia games start, he's that good" -Palmar
"He is clearly more attractive than the rest of us" -GMarshal
Well what are you waiting for? Contact your local GreYMisT and GET YOUR BLUE-EYES TODAY!
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 21 2012 01:05 GreYMisT wrote:GreYMisT is Coaching!SO? Do you want to learn to be a badass like this guy? Well lets take a look at what he has that you don't! 1) A cool jacket Cape thing! 2) Smoke effects! 3) A Blue-Eyes White Dragon! Will these things help you in mafia? OF COURSE!Just Look at what people are saying about GreYMisT Coaching! "I can't believe I have met someone better at mafia than me" -Ace"This man...Is a God" -Foolishness"I kill GreYMisT BEFORE mafia games start, he's that good" -Palmar"He is clearly more attractive than the rest of us" -GMarshalWell what are you waiting for? Contact your local GreYMisT and GET YOUR BLUE-EYES TODAY!
uumm, pretty sure it'S a scam :D
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And if my eyes are already blue?
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On April 21 2012 01:18 mutant wrote:
And if my eyes are already blue?
Are you a white dragon?
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On April 21 2012 01:05 GreYMisT wrote:+ Show Spoiler +GreYMisT is Coaching!SO? Do you want to learn to be a badass like this guy? Well lets take a look at what he has that you don't! 1) A cool jacket Cape thing! 2) Smoke effects! 3) A Blue-Eyes White Dragon! Will these things help you in mafia? OF COURSE!Just Look at what people are saying about GreYMisT Coaching! "I can't believe I have met someone better at mafia than me" -Ace"This man...Is a God" -Foolishness"I kill GreYMisT BEFORE mafia games start, he's that good" -Palmar"He is clearly more attractive than the rest of us" -GMarshalWell what are you waiting for? Contact your local GreYMisT and GET YOUR BLUE-EYES TODAY!
Bitch please! I AM THE KING OF GAMES.
##youactivatedmytrapcard
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On April 21 2012 01:26 GreYMisT wrote:Are you a white dragon?
Well, I don't like to brag...
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United Kingdom36158 Posts
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On April 21 2012 01:29 mutant wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:26 GreYMisT wrote:On April 21 2012 01:18 mutant wrote:
And if my eyes are already blue? Are you a white dragon? Well, I don't like to brag...
HA!!!!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dPARE.jpg)
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United States22154 Posts
Lets not make this thread into a Yu-Gi-Oh duel thread please ^_^
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Lol im surprised with the success of the YuGiOh role in aperture that GreyMist hasn't started a full-out YuGiOh themed mafia, with a secret easter egg connection to aperture game.
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On April 21 2012 01:35 GMarshal wrote:
Lets not make this thread into a Yu-Gi-Oh duel thread please ^_^
Fair enough ^^
On April 21 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote:
Lol im surprised with the success of the YuGiOh role in aperture that GreyMist hasn't started a full-out YuGiOh themed mafia, with a secret easter egg connection to aperture game.
You don't think im working on it?
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On April 21 2012 01:43 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote:
Lol im surprised with the success of the YuGiOh role in aperture that GreyMist hasn't started a full-out YuGiOh themed mafia, with a secret easter egg connection to aperture game. You don't think im working on it?
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On April 21 2012 01:43 GreYMisT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote:
Lol im surprised with the success of the YuGiOh role in aperture that GreyMist hasn't started a full-out YuGiOh themed mafia, with a secret easter egg connection to aperture game. You don't think im working on it?
I better get a pre-invite.
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On April 21 2012 01:51 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 01:43 GreYMisT wrote:On April 21 2012 01:38 Mementoss wrote:
Lol im surprised with the success of the YuGiOh role in aperture that GreyMist hasn't started a full-out YuGiOh themed mafia, with a secret easter egg connection to aperture game. You don't think im working on it? I better get a pre-invite.
I also want to be in on this 
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Any chance of the deadline being 2 hours earlier, for the EU players here?
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United States22154 Posts
On April 21 2012 03:34 ArcticFox wrote:
So when do we start? =D
Tomorrow night.
On April 21 2012 06:25 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Any chance of the deadline being 2 hours earlier, for the EU players here?
I would, but I would miss pretty much every night post if I had the day post any earlier. Sorry -__-
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/in if its not too late
I can take seviro's place or be put in as a replacement.
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The player roster is full, but would you consider participating as a replacement? If not, the next beginners' game should be coming up soon.
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Very well
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United States22154 Posts
Also, people who want to obs should PM me or MG after the game gets underway.
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you people better not hesitate to ask them coaches about anything 'cause they're awesome and you can always use a second opinion
no one asked me anything when i was coaching last surprisingly normal mini and that made me a bit sad 
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On April 21 2012 22:17 prplhz wrote:you people better not hesitate to ask them coaches about anything 'cause they're awesome and you can always use a second opinion no one asked me anything when i was coaching last surprisingly normal mini and that made me a bit sad
In the last newbie game, Mattchew ended up coaching about five players just because he posted a blue one-line reminder shortly after the start of the game. I guess timing is important for advertising.
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
Just so folks know, the next Newbie game will be going up once this one starts.
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Sorry for this, but I really really want to play the pokemafia game...
/out, unless I can play two games at the same time?
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United States22154 Posts
On April 22 2012 06:42 Gossemerr wrote:
Sorry for this, but I really really want to play the pokemafia game...
/out, unless I can play two games at the same time?
Will swap you out for Seviro and put you on replacements, as I'd rather give this opportunity to people who aren't playing in other games.
MidnightGladius is busy, if he shows up before the deadline, you'll get roles tonight, if he doesn't you'll get them tomorrow night.
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/in
This is the first game I've played so what would be the best place to get an overview of how everything works?
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On April 23 2012 00:36 MajuGarzett wrote:
/in
This is the first game I've played so what would be the best place to get an overview of how everything works?
There's a list of guides in the fourth post in this thread, labelled "Newbie specific stuff". Note that a critical element of forum mafia is to read and re-read everything thoroughly. If you don't do that, your input as town is likely to be worse than useless. That applies to the game setup posts too.
I strongly recommend that you read a few other games before you play too. The recent Newbie Mini Mafia VIII is quite fun and gives you meta on some players in this game. Day 1 is mostly an example of good town play, day 2 is mostly an example of bad town play and day 3 is an example of what happens when you're too tired and and confused to think straight.
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On April 23 2012 02:26 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 00:36 MajuGarzett wrote:
/in
This is the first game I've played so what would be the best place to get an overview of how everything works? There's a list of guides in the fourth post in this thread, labelled "Newbie specific stuff". Note that a critical element of forum mafia is to read and re-read everything thoroughly. If you don't do that, your input as town is likely to be worse than useless. That applies to the game setup posts too. I strongly recommend that you read a few other games before you play too. The recent Newbie Mini Mafia VIII is quite fun and gives you meta on some players in this game. Day 1 is mostly an example of good town play, day 2 is mostly an example of bad town play and day 3 is an example of what happens when you're too tired and and confused to think straight.
Ok, thanks for the advice.
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MajuGarzett, the player list is currently full, but the next game should be taking signups soon after this one begins. Alternatively, if you want to join the replacement list, just let me know, and I'll add you to it.
To everyone else, roles will be going out this afternoon/tonight.
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oh wow, I just noticed that GM just ninja /in me :O
put MajuGarzett in my place np I /out yesterday -_-
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Whoops, sorry for the confusion. MajuGarzett is now in the game, and Seviro is out. Thanks for your patience, everyone. I'm waiting for GMarshal to confirm that everything is good to go, and then we'll get this party started :D.
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Role PMs are going out now. Please don't post in this thread until Day 1 is posted.
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Day 1:
"Every significant decision affecting China's 1.3bn people is first discussed and approved by a handful of men who sit on the party's political bureau (politburo), the nexus of all power in China.
The 24-member Politburo is elected by the party's central committee. But real power lies with its nine-member standing committee, which works as a kind of inner cabinet and groups together the country's most influential leaders.
How the standing committee operates is secret and unclear. But its meetings are thought to be regular and frequent, often characterised by blunt speaking and disagreement. - The Economist"
MidnightGladius groaned softly, rubbing his bloodshot eyes and frowning at the six 21-inch screens arrayed on the desk before him. The transfer of power was supposed to have a quiet, orderly affair, a chance for China to show its progress as a modern nation, a modern leader. Now, with news of Boss Xilai flooding the media, conspiracy theories were popping up faster than state censors could quash them, like mosquitoes hatching in his native Jiangsu Province. The buzzing insects were no true threat, but they could leave a body marked with swollen red bumps and a dreadful itch. The affairs of state could not tolerate such foolishness. He returned to his work, scanning financial statements, following four major stock markets, and occasionally glancing at the latest posts on Sina Weibo, the Chinese Twitter clone.
One headline caught his attention. "Hey, GMarshal, can you believe this? Someone's claiming that there's a secret faction of corrupt Politburo members, and that they're planning on using the situation in Chongqing to seize de facto control of the Standing Committee! Can you believe this nonsense?" He ducked below his desk to refill his mug of tea. The leaves tasted stale already, and it was barely mid-morning.
GMarshal, MidnightGladius' political mentor and longtime ally, laughed softly, then looked up from his desk on the other side of the room. "They're almost as bad as the Americans! Why, I ---"
Suddenly, the heavy oak doors crashed open, and four men rushed into the room, their footsteps muffled on the thick green carpet. "What in the name of Mao are you doing here, Boss Xilai? You were supposed to be under house arrest!" The elder statesman demanded sharply.
"I've been waiting a long time for this, GMarshal. Ever since your uncle betrayed my father on the long road to Yan'an. And though things have not gone according to plan, I was able to make a few concessions and call in a few favors." MidnightGladius froze, hearing the ominously metallic sound of a cocked pistol. "Your service to the people is at an end, Premier." Three shots rang out in quick succession, and MidnightGladius heard a body thump to the ground. His stomach lurched, filled with caffeine and bile. GMarshal was dead.
MidnightGladius had served in the People's Liberation Army once, and he rose almost without thinking, drawing his old service sidearm from his desk drawer.
"President MidnightGladius. I have no quarrel with you. Put that silly thing down, and I'll let you go about your business."
Even as he heard the lie, MidnightGladius aimed and fired, as three of the men with Boss Xilai pulled out their own guns. It was strangely satisfying to see the blood spurt from the traitor's wounds, but MidnightGladius knew that he was a dead man. His last thoughts were rather silly, in the manner of men who mere minutes earlier had not expected to die. I should have sold those shares of Apple...
The fate of the nation now rests in the hands of the remaining members of the Politburo standing committee.
GMarshal, Premier of the People's Republic of China, was murdered in cold blood!
MidnightGladius, President of the People's Republic of China, was shot and killed!
Boss Xilai, Mafia Enemy of the State, was brought to justice!
It is now Day 1. The deadline is in ~48 hours, 02:00 GMT (+00:00) 4/24/12. Remember to vote in this thread. Proper formatting is
##Vote <NAME>
Good luck and have fun!
If you plan on observing, please PM either me or GMarshal for the QT link. I will send it out to everyone who has already indicated interest in observing in the thread.
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Should we lynch lurkers? think we probably should.
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I think it's not a useful thing to discuss early on and leads to little scumhunting and a poor town atmosphere.
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Well if nothing else it'll encourage people to post which should generate discussion faster. Once some discussion is started we can vote based on post content instead of based on arbitrary constraints.
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So you ask people the question to pressure them to make an answer, then follow by telling them that it was only to get them to answer. Nice.
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Well the main purpose was to get a consensus on how things should be done, generating discussion is just another benefit.
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How do we ask question to the coach? PM?
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Though as I haven't played before it may well lead to a poor town atmosphere as you suggested.
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Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place.
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On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place.
He's right, no lynch = really bad.
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On April 23 2012 05:49 St.Daniel wrote:
How do we ask question to the coach? PM?
Yes, feel free to PM sandroba, wherebugsgo, Jitsu, GreYMisT or Blazinghand for coaching. If more players express an interest to act as coaches for this game, their names will be added to the OP.
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On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad.
I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia.
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On April 23 2012 06:10 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad. I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia.
How are exactly are we to understand the fact that according to you, he has "shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie" but "no distinct signs of being mafia?
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On April 23 2012 06:36 ForTheDr3am wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 06:10 MajuGarzett wrote:On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad. I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia. How are exactly are we to understand the fact that according to you, he has "shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie" but "no distinct signs of being mafia?
It's very typical scum behaviour. Making no actual reads, but posting a load of stuff under the guise of "useful posting"
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On April 23 2012 06:10 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad. I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia.
Why wouldn't someone need help this early? When I played my first game, I was bugging my coach a day and a half before it started.
Not too many people have posted so far. Game started like 5 hours or so earlier than we expected, so I guess that's natural. But I will be checking to see who hasn't posted so we can start making people talk.
The most important thing is for everyone to be active. If we allow people not to post, it also allows scum not to post, which is the easiest way for them to play.
I would highly suggest that everyone make a notepad file or excel sheet and start keeping tabs of who they think is giving off townie and scummy vibes. As the game gets longer, it will be very helpful to have a quick guide to go back to for remembering how you felt about everyone. It will help you when you re-read filters as well to see how it lines up with the notes you've taken.
As it stands, there are now 7 people who haven't posted yet. Last game we nearly lynched scum Day 1 because we had some really good discussion going right out of the gate.
For example: Maju's idea to lynch lurkers. It's so standard that it's not even really worth discussing, BUT it's the only thing that's been brought up, so when you make your first post, post your thoughts on it. My personal thought is I want the game to be active enough that we don't have to, but if you won't talk, you can hang.
Discuss!
(P.S. Zealos stop acting so scummy, unless you *are* scum, in which case continue so we can lynch you first. <3)
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On April 23 2012 07:09 ArcticFox wrote:
For example: Maju's idea to lynch lurkers. It's so standard that it's not even really worth discussing, BUT it's the only thing that's been brought up, so when you make your first post, post your thoughts on it. My personal thought is I want the game to be active enough that we don't have to, but if you won't talk, you can hang.
Discuss!
(P.S. Zealos stop acting so scummy, unless you *are* scum, in which case continue so we can lynch you first. <3)
Lynch all lurkers is far from everything that has been brought up until now. You even brought up that Zealos is acting a bit scummy yourself, and I am still waiting on Maju's answer on the exact meaning of his latest post. That is a decent discussion ground already without giving people the opportunity to just make empty posts on lurker lynches.
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hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do
##vote: majugarzett
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Whoa, hold on a sec yomi. You think we shouldn't lynch D1 and you vote Maj? for what? I find that little odd. Please give us your reason.
My analysis on Dr3am:
On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place.
Note how he propose that the players should actively vote to avoid no lynch, and then he goes on and say that the best way to gather information is by good "discussion." That doesn't make any sense. Acquiring information for good discussion has nothing to do with his proposal. It doesn't support why people shouldn't vote for no lynch. Also, how does no lynch benefit scum exactly. If we do not have a convincing case but vote anyway for the sake of lynching someone, the chance is that we may lynch townie, thus benefiting mafia. This post doesn't bring up any topic that we can discuss but rather a vague statement that doesn't serve any purpose. I'm not yet convinced that he is a scum but this is just a thought.
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On April 23 2012 07:32 ForTheDr3am wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 07:09 ArcticFox wrote:
For example: Maju's idea to lynch lurkers. It's so standard that it's not even really worth discussing, BUT it's the only thing that's been brought up, so when you make your first post, post your thoughts on it. My personal thought is I want the game to be active enough that we don't have to, but if you won't talk, you can hang.
Discuss!
(P.S. Zealos stop acting so scummy, unless you *are* scum, in which case continue so we can lynch you first. <3) Lynch all lurkers is far from everything that has been brought up until now. You even brought up that Zealos is acting a bit scummy yourself, and I am still waiting on Maju's answer on the exact meaning of his latest post. That is a decent discussion ground already without giving people the opportunity to just make empty posts on lurker lynches.
I just meant he might be mafia or he might be a detective or medic or something.
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Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched.
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On April 23 2012 08:58 St.Daniel wrote:Whoa, hold on a sec yomi. You think we shouldn't lynch D1 and you vote Maj? for what? I find that little odd. Please give us your reason. My analysis on Dr3am: Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. Note how he propose that the players should actively vote to avoid no lynch, and then he goes on and say that the best way to gather information is by good "discussion." That doesn't make any sense. Acquiring information for good discussion has nothing to do with his proposal. It doesn't support why people shouldn't vote for no lynch. Also, how does no lynch benefit scum exactly. If we do not have a convincing case but vote anyway for the sake of lynching someone, the chance is that we may lynch townie, thus benefiting mafia. This post doesn't bring up any topic that we can discuss but rather a vague statement that doesn't serve any purpose. I'm not yet convinced that he is a scum but this is just a thought.
The most fruitful discussions are those about whom to lynch. If townies agree to not lynch or even just play with the mindset of not lynching, it will stifle discussion and harm our scumhunting abilities. The reason why no lynch itself is bad should be obvious - lynching is our only way (apart from the vigilante) to kill mafia. If, after 2 days, there is no single decent case then we have failed as town.
It wasn't my primary intention to start a huge discussion with that post, I mainly wanted to make sure no townie goes "let's just no-lynch day 1!". Surprisingly enough, you felt the need to discuss it anyways by saying that it doesn't bring up a topic to discuss. Frankly, you aren't even accusing me of anything specific. So, I have a few questions for you.
a) Do you understand/agree with my point now?
b) There are enough posts in the topic that actually don't serve any purpose. What made you jump on mine? Seeing that yomi (and apparently you) aren't convinced that not lynching is generally bad, it seems it was pretty necessary after all.
c) You seem to have a slight inclination to think that I am scum. What, exactly, is your accusation? Am I trying to pretend to contribute? Inconsistency?
As far as I am concerned, your post was pretty empty contentwise. Your analysis of my post was not really an analysis, it just has the vagueness that you claimed I was guilty of. I hope you can answer my questions satisfactory, at least.
--------------------
As for other people.
@Zealos: I didn't mention it before because I originally wanted to observe more of you, but what is with the negative tone in your first few posts, and the frequent one-liners? Such an aggression in tone is pointless at best and disrupts the town atmosphere at worst. All you have done is verbally hating on Maju without much content.
@yomi: Others have asked already, please explain that last post of yours.
@Maju: You specifically said he has shown no distinct sign of being mafia. If you actually thought he might have a blue role, it is bad play to say so in the thread.
I'll be off for tonight, then. I hope the current open questions will be answered, and everybody will post.
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not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.
You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz.
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway.
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On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.
You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz.
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway.
I would still like to hear the reasoning on me being mafia.
@forthedr3am: I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier, I meant there was no way to differentiate if he was mafia or blue.
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pointing out that someone is mafia or blue is not helpful because the mafia know who the other mafia are and you are just helping them target blues
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On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.
What. The. Fuq.
First of all, you haven't said ANYTHING. You just said that no lynch for D1 is not bad and..... That's IT. I still don't get why you think Maj is a scum. Instead of explaining your position, you made it even more odd. If you think Maj is a scum, fine, give us evidence, proof, or at least something we can put under consideration.
You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz.
You said you are not convinced that we should lynch D1 and now you want everyone to vote asap? Am I missing something? What made you change your mind so quickly?
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway.
Again. Why? Almost half of people hasn't even posted and you jump to the conclusion that Maj is a scum.
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On April 23 2012 10:57 yomi wrote:
pointing out that someone is mafia or blue is not helpful because the mafia know who the other mafia are and you are just helping them target blues
Yeah, I realise now that I didn't really think that through.
You still have not given evidence as to why I would be mafia, that's two posts in a row you've avoided the question. Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible.
Also, you say mafia are afraid to take concrete stances when you're original post stated that you were not sure that anyone should be lynched.
Initially claiming you may not want to lynch anybody, then launching seemingly unfounded accusations, then pressuring everyone else to follow you blindly seems pretty scummy to me.
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Well I don't think anyone should be considered just based on asking for help. yomi's behavior seems slightly suspicious. Why would you lead by saying you are not convinced a lynching should even happen but then vote for someone in the next breath.
I agree we should lynch someone and am still reserving judgement.
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On April 23 2012 11:11 MajuGarzett wrote:
You still have not given evidence as to why I would be mafia, that's two posts in a row you've avoided the question. Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible.
Also, you say mafia are afraid to take concrete stances when you're original post stated that you were not sure that anyone should be lynched.
Initially claiming you may not want to lynch anybody, then launching seemingly unfounded accusations, then pressuring everyone else to follow you blindly seems pretty scummy to me.
you need to work on your reading comprehension and hyperbole if you want to succeed in this game.
What have I accused you of that is unfounded? When did I pressure everyone to vote for you?
Please quote me saying these things.
I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie.
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@Dr3am:
First off, I would like to clarify my stance on D1 lynch. I do not think D1 is bad. Done.
What I was getting at was that there is no reason to rush it or force it just for the sake of voting. Right? I think I made myself clear now.
a) I understand what you are getting at but your wording got me little confused. Also I had no idea how you got from discouraging no lynch to acquiring information from good discussion is the best way, not that I disagree. Next time, please reread your to make sure it makes sense.
b) I have Maj as overly eager new player and yomi as eithera scum or an idiot. And nobody else said anything. Your post caught my attention because it sounds as there is a content but there really isn't. It only state that people should vote and good discussion is good which are pretty obvious.
c) I'm not convinced that you are a scum yet, but overly eager expression for town "justice will prevail" and seemingly content -less post about D1 lynch tickle me in the ear. Also from my experience, scum always say that they won't be around for the deadline.
Conclusion: Dr3am is not a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. I hope my answers satisfied your questions.
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What have I accused you of that is unfounded?
You've 3 times accused me of being mafia and 3 times now have given no reason why despite the questioning of multiple individuals.
When did I pressure everyone to vote for you?
This I agree you did not say outright. However, you did pressure everyone to vote when we have not heard from many players. It seems logical to assume that you would like others to vote for me as well. As only one name (mine) has been proposed to be lynched, it seems quite obvious that you are attempting to get people to lynch me while giving to evidence as to why.
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On April 23 2012 11:31 yomi wrote:
Please quote me saying these things.
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On April 23 2012 11:57 yomi wrote:
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia
As for the part about pressuring people to lynch me, I have already admitted that was based off thought process rather than direct quotation. And that's 4 times you have given no evidence as to why I would be mafia. You should either give evidence or admit that the accusation is baseless.
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@Dr3am:
First off, I would like to clarify my stance on D1 lynch. I do not think D1 is bad. Done.
What I was getting at was that there is no reason to rush it or force it just for the sake of voting. Right? I think I made myself clear now.
a) I understand what you are getting at but your wording got me little confused. Also I had no idea how you got from discouraging no lynch to acquiring information from good discussion is the best way, not that I disagree. Next time, please reread your to make sure it makes sense.
b) I have Maj as overly eager new player and yomi as eithera scum or an idiot. And nobody else said anything. Your post caught my attention because it sounds as there is a content but there really isn't. It only state that people should vote and good discussion is good which are pretty obvious.
c) I'm not convinced that you are a scum yet, but overly eager expression for town "justice will prevail" and seemingly content -less post about D1 lynch tickle me in the ear. Also from my experience, scum always say that they won't be around for the deadline.
Conclusion: Dr3am is not a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. I hope my answers satisfied your questions.
Looking at your comments you said that this was your first game, where have you come across before that scum say they won't be present at the deadline?
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is this not your first game maju?
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On April 23 2012 13:59 yomi wrote:
is this not your first game maju?
It is, I just wanted to get clarification on the source of Daniel's statement since it could help tell if dr3am is mafia.
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Hello everyone,
Just had the opportunity to go through the thread. I would like to reiterate ForTheDr3am's assertion that lynching on day 1 is crucial. First of all, if we hit scum, then we are way ahead of the game, as it is balanced around not killing scum day 1. Secondly, the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching. If we don't lynch day 1, we lose an entire day's worth of crucial information, which when you consider a lot of games last only 4-5 days, that's a TON of information left out.
And I have a couple of questions for Yomi:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 08:12 yomi wrote:
hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do
##vote: majugarzett
1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.
You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz.
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway.
2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened?
Please answer these questions, especially #1. St.Daniel and Dream have both asked that question, and we all want an answer.
And lastly, would everyone who is still lurking stop by the thread? I know it's hard sometimes to get the time to really analyze the thread in, but it would really do town a lot of good, and it's a lot easier if you start now when the thread is relatively small.
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Greetings,
I'd like to first note that I'm studying in Hong Kong at the moment (i'm still unadjusted to time differences). But anyways, here are my thoughts;
-Arctic Fox
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 07:09 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 06:10 MajuGarzett wrote:On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad. I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia. Why wouldn't someone need help this early? When I played my first game, I was bugging my coach a day and a half before it started. Not too many people have posted so far. Game started like 5 hours or so earlier than we expected, so I guess that's natural. But I will be checking to see who hasn't posted so we can start making people talk. The most important thing is for everyone to be active. If we allow people not to post, it also allows scum not to post, which is the easiest way for them to play. I would highly suggest that everyone make a notepad file or excel sheet and start keeping tabs of who they think is giving off townie and scummy vibes. As the game gets longer, it will be very helpful to have a quick guide to go back to for remembering how you felt about everyone. It will help you when you re-read filters as well to see how it lines up with the notes you've taken. As it stands, there are now 7 people who haven't posted yet. Last game we nearly lynched scum Day 1 because we had some really good discussion going right out of the gate. For example: Maju's idea to lynch lurkers. It's so standard that it's not even really worth discussing, BUT it's the only thing that's been brought up, so when you make your first post, post your thoughts on it. My personal thought is I want the game to be active enough that we don't have to, but if you won't talk, you can hang. Discuss! (P.S. Zealos stop acting so scummy, unless you *are* scum, in which case continue so we can lynch you first. <3)
A number of suggestions are made, such as encouraging town discussion (particularly to weed out lurkers), creating our own notes to better understand our thoughts, and to discuss Maju's suggestion of lynch lurkers. I find these agreeable, and am finding myself drawn to his strong town-like influence. This is enhanced by the fact that he notes Zealos is scum without actually outright accusing him. He starts with my heavy support as townie, but I’m a little worried in the end he's a mafia that will kill us all. You won't know till we read more into his posts.
-ForTheDr3am
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad.
The juxtaposition of these comments had me suspicious. Zealos and MajuGarzett had some banter in beginning, before ForTheDr3am jumps in. I’m in the middle on FTD, as a later explanation is much more developed and concrete, although mostly defensive. He does however point out Zealou’s lack of content, except for this post really;
-Zealous
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 05:25 Zealos wrote:
I think it's not a useful thing to discuss early on and leads to little scumhunting and a poor town atmosphere.
I will state now that my first choice to vote is Zealous, on the grounds of lack of developed purpose in his posts, and the seemingly eager chance at throwing MajuGarzett under the bus.
-MajuGarzett
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 10:55 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.
You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz.
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway. I would still like to hear the reasoning on me being mafia. @forthedr3am: I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier, I meant there was no way to differentiate if he was mafia or blue.
I agree that MajuGarzett may be a “total dunce” in the sense that his posts are inciting chaos and making him a good target. However, I disagree that Maju should be voted so quickly yomi, because we shouldn’t be so quick to off a townie, on the grounds of “not much lost ...anyway”. BECAUSE MajuGarzett’s made himself to be a target (by what I believe is over-zealous townie work) offing him is an easy D1 for the mafia because they get an easy townie kill.
-St.Daniel
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 11:41 St.Daniel wrote:
@Dr3am:
First off, I would like to clarify my stance on D1 lynch. I do not think D1 is bad. Done.
What I was getting at was that there is no reason to rush it or force it just for the sake of voting. Right? I think I made myself clear now.
a) I understand what you are getting at but your wording got me little confused. Also I had no idea how you got from discouraging no lynch to acquiring information from good discussion is the best way, not that I disagree. Next time, please reread your to make sure it makes sense.
b) I have Maj as overly eager new player and yomi as eithera scum or an idiot. And nobody else said anything. Your post caught my attention because it sounds as there is a content but there really isn't. It only state that people should vote and good discussion is good which are pretty obvious.
c) I'm not convinced that you are a scum yet, but overly eager expression for town "justice will prevail" and seemingly content -less post about D1 lynch tickle me in the ear. Also from my experience, scum always say that they won't be around for the deadline.
Conclusion: Dr3am is not a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. I hope my answers satisfied your questions.
I do believe you were awkwardly (unjustly) accused in the beginning for asking a question. It also looks like we have the same read on Maju (b). Dr3am seems innocent enough to me, as he threw off Zealous from his back, and does only seem concerned with good town discussion. But he's had to be defensive, so I don't know yet.
-Yomi
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 08:12 yomi wrote:
hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do
##vote: majugarzett
I honestly don’t know what’s going on with Yomi. He’s the first to eagerly vote off MajuGarzett (under the bus theory?) which seems scummy, but not much else has been said otherwise. I’m kinda confused about his play otherwise.
I’d like to also note my stance on pressuring people who haven’t posted (or posted little content) to post. So lurkers, please post!
P.S.
+ Show Spoiler + I may use the pronoun He more than I should, and if I incorrectly do so please feel free to scold / correct me.
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On April 23 2012 14:39 mutant wrote:
1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened?
Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching.
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On April 23 2012 15:21 yomi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 14:39 mutant wrote:
1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened?
Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching.
Then why do you keep avoiding giving reasons for voting for me? If starting discussion was truly your motive you would have done so by now.
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i told you why I voted for you. btw you are annoying i'm not talking to you any more for the next 12 hours
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Hi, so the game got finally started.
I have read through the posts, and thus far we have this:
- Lynch could be good. It weeds out lurkers, whom must/can be scum".
- Being dunce is valid for targeting.
- A good discussion is good, it nearly got a scum on day 1 in another game.
- Yomi and Maju accusing each other.
- Zealous accusing Maju, which results in ArticFox and nreekay324 thinking Zealous is scummy.
- Dream stating the validity of good discussions, while he states he will not be around for deadlines.
- Those who post are less scummy.
It may because I am a rookie, but it all seems very muddy. And to me, people stating "In the last game..." makes me think that a person knowing the behaviorism of both parties can emulate either one, and as such manipulate to their fitting. And while being aggressive can get this party started, it makes me feel some eager to muddy up the place with "information" on the basis of accusing left and right. It it works, it must be based on luck, if you ask me.
I am okay with a d1 lynch, IF it is on the basis of valid information.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
I'm not sure what to think of Yomi at the moment. He is posting in the same erratic way as last game, where we were both scum, but I think that is just how he posts generally. I'm not really sure whether it tells us he is scum or not. However the voting so early in the same post as saying he wasn't sure about lynching someone day 1 is a good idea. He also still has not given a real reason why he voted for Maju.
As for Maju, I think the post about Daniel being either blue or scum is stupid but doesn't strike me as scummy play. Why would scum tell everyone who they want to kill. Is a bit over defensive at yomi's baseless accusations but that could just be him being new to the game.
Arctic posted a ton of suggestions but didn't actually post anything of real worth. It's certainly something to keep an eye on because it's an easy way for scum to look like they are helping.
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Greetings,
Finally I have the time to read up the thread and start my posts:
1) I think this is the trend for the game to lynch lurker in D1 because most of the people here will agree lurker is a scum or badtown so we lose nothing to lynch them out. What if everyone is active and no lurker is around then we might consider no lynch in D1 or lynching the most suspicious person to gain most information from the others.
@Mutant, he stated that it is balanced around not killing scum day 1, this only balance when we mislynch a townie in day1 what if we mislynch a vig? doc? or DT? It would be a big disadvantage to the town.
2) About the yumi and maju case both of them can be townie accusing each other because we don't have sufficient evidence to support either of them yet. It could be a scam accsuing a town too hence we need to more disscussion.
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Shower done, coffee down, time to scumhunt!
##FoS: Zealos for being called out for scummy behavior last night and not responding to it. I'd like to see your responses to this accusation, and specifically why you think posts like:
On April 23 2012 05:30 Zealos wrote:
So you ask people the question to pressure them to make an answer, then follow by telling them that it was only to get them to answer. Nice.
and other such 1 line responses are helpful to town and not indicitave of scum behavior.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yomi's play is already confusing. His first post was a random vote against a guy whose filter is reading very much like a first time town player (slightly clueless, but learning, active, and interested). His filter since then is full of gems like:
On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway.
On April 23 2012 11:31 yomi wrote:
I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie.
You don't vote to get rid of "dunces." You lynch to hit scum. If you don't think he's scum, there's no reason to vote him.
On April 23 2012 15:36 yomi wrote:
i told you why I voted for you. btw you are annoying i'm not talking to you any more for the next 12 hours
More 1-liners and aggression. Yomi's filter reads like Scum 101 right now -- he started a fight with a player, mucked up the thread with a bunch of nonsense, posted a couple of 1-liners he thought might make him look townie, then disappeared and hoped people would look at Maju instead of him. It didn't work on me.
##Vote: yomi
Yomi, if you'd like to rebutt, focus on hunting scum instead of your rabid defense and pointless bickering strategy.
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1) Yomi try to start the game with a random lynch on Maju trying to pressure him for discussion in my point of view , he is either trying to scumhunt or he is a scum. Also, he is not targeting the lurkers but Maju which is a bit werid for me. Btw why bring history in? This will only make you become more suspicious. I think that past history shouldn't be taken account hence this is a new game.
But I don't think Yomi is scum because it's simply too dangerous for scum to act in such way, high chance he will be lynch if he randomly target someone in this case who is Maju. For me it looks like scumhunt more than scum.
2) Zealots is pretty much a 1 liner who doesn't really contribute anything yet, he is a decent vote at the moment.
3)Well everyone has posted something but they didn't say much they just say lynch someone which could be suspicious such as dracolich and insecto we might need more from them.
4)Inmallinson just pointed out he's a mafia last game is this intentionally? hmm...
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 11:41 St.Daniel wrote:
@Dr3am:
First off, I would like to clarify my stance on D1 lynch. I do not think D1 is bad. Done.
What I was getting at was that there is no reason to rush it or force it just for the sake of voting. Right? I think I made myself clear now.
a) I understand what you are getting at but your wording got me little confused. Also I had no idea how you got from discouraging no lynch to acquiring information from good discussion is the best way, not that I disagree. Next time, please reread your to make sure it makes sense.
b) I have Maj as overly eager new player and yomi as eithera scum or an idiot. And nobody else said anything. Your post caught my attention because it sounds as there is a content but there really isn't. It only state that people should vote and good discussion is good which are pretty obvious.
c) I'm not convinced that you are a scum yet, but overly eager expression for town "justice will prevail" and seemingly content -less post about D1 lynch tickle me in the ear. Also from my experience, scum always say that they won't be around for the deadline.
Conclusion: Dr3am is not a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. I hope my answers satisfied your questions.
a) Fair enough.
b) That is wrong. ArcticFox and Zealos had both also posted already. You also say that the fact that people should vote is obvious - after you felt the need to clarify that people should not vote for the sake of voting, and said that you were confused by my wording.
c) It should be quite obvious from me asking for a deadline shift that I am saying the truth about not being around at the deadline. I suppose that was something that happened before the start of the game and takes a bit of putting points together itself.
I am not as happy with your answers as I wish I could be. No, I do not think that you are scum either but your post looked to me as if you tried to appear to participate in scumhunting without actually doing anything. While my first post was not the most substantial itself, claiming it to be content-less strikes me as odd.
I admit that everything I mentioned were only small details, but added together they give you an air of inconsistency which is not a strong scum-tell, but something I will keep in mind.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 18:23 Dracolich70 wrote:
Hi, so the game got finally started.
I have read through the posts, and thus far we have this:
- Lynch could be good. It weeds out lurkers, whom must/can be scum".
- Being dunce is valid for targeting.
- A good discussion is good, it nearly got a scum on day 1 in another game.
- Yomi and Maju accusing each other.
- Zealous accusing Maju, which results in ArticFox and nreekay324 thinking Zealous is scummy.
- Dream stating the validity of good discussions, while he states he will not be around for deadlines.
- Those who post are less scummy.
It may because I am a rookie, but it all seems very muddy. And to me, people stating "In the last game..." makes me think that a person knowing the behaviorism of both parties can emulate either one, and as such manipulate to their fitting. And while being aggressive can get this party started, it makes me feel some eager to muddy up the place with "information" on the basis of accusing left and right. It it works, it must be based on luck, if you ask me.
I am okay with a d1 lynch, IF it is on the basis of valid information.
This post is very weird even as a first post for a rookie. First, you post a list which is basically a mix of events and statements, so pretty much completely use- and contentless. The rest of the post apparently is written with the intention to slow down scumhunting. You state that people might be emulating behaviorism, which is quite pointless to say as scum will always try to appear as town, with or without reference play.
Then, you claim that making too many accusations will muddy up the place with fake/useless information, and that making cases is based on luck. You seem to be afraid of the town getting things done. Why would you be? You should be making cases yourself and analyzing people instead if you want to be helpful. Posts like this one make you seem like scum.
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Zealos' answer is still needed.
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As for yomi, I think the case against him is fairly obvious. First he says he isn't sure about day1 lynch, then votes Maju without explanation. Then he refuses (!) to explain himself. Then he flames some more.
On April 23 2012 15:21 yomi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 14:39 mutant wrote:
1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened?
Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching.
This statement isn't technically wrong, but he fails to realize that random votes without proper explanation don't help anyone, and shuts down any attempts of discussing his vote himself, claiming that Maju' is a dunce he won't talk to.
It's also strangely ironic that he wants to mention his last game where he was mafia, while in the last game he also tried to refer to outside posts of him to prove that his posting style is ... erratic in general.
It is bad to offer mafia a free bandwagon in case he actually is just a particularly unhelpful townie, but it seems that there is only one actual vote on him up to now, making me think that there are still people with an interest to keep him alive.
##Vote: yomi
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3)Well everyone has posted something but they didn't say much they just say lynch someone which could be suspicious such as dracolich and insecto we might need more from them. I am pretty sure I didn't say such a thing. I am pretty sure that was the direct opposite of what I said.
I am also pretty certain I have stated that I feel that a lot of people are just pointing fingers left and right for the most part, and seemingly this is going to continue. However, I am not going about be the front runner in a lynch mob, when I feel this way still, and joining in with the finger-pointing.
This being said, if you want something, then I think yomi is acting a bit weird to say the least. The only thing I think I agree with him on is the uncertainty of d1 lynches. For the most part he has responded with complete disinterest, and awkward behavior and responses, when responding. If it is something he does, when scum, or it's because he is one-dimensional, I do not know. Or even if it makes him scum.
Other than that I don't see a lot of substance.
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This post is very weird even as a first post for a rookie. First, you post a list which is basically a mix of events and statements, so pretty much completely use- and contentless. The rest of the post apparently is written with the intention to slow down scumhunting. You state that people might be emulating behaviorism, which is quite pointless to say as scum will always try to appear as town, with or without reference play. The list was trying to draw a picture of how I feel the events thus far. Which is either guided by paranoia, or as a initiator for debate(?). I am not sure if this is the right way, as it can clutter the thread mightily quickly.
If you feel it is content less, then it is because most of the accusations are pretty weak. It was pretty much the highlights, as I see it.
I just said that knowing the behavior of either one, makes it easier to manipulate, and right now, I feel/fear some are trying to manipulate the course of actions with pointing fingers left and right.
Then, you claim that making too many accusations will muddy up the place with fake/useless information, and that making cases is based on luck. You seem to be afraid of the town getting things done. Why would you be? You should be making cases yourself and analyzing people instead if you want to be helpful. Posts like this one make you seem like scum. I don't know if it is rocket science, but if we all take turns to point fingers at 2-3 in each of our posts, and they in turn do the same, it gets pretty muddied. Isn't saying "pointing too many accusations will muddy up the place" something logical? Sorry, it is to me.
I have still said I am okay with a lynch, however I am not a supporter of just lynching someone to make something happen. And as I stated - I am very open to valid information.
Is this the part where I should point fingers at you?
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Dracolich70: Stop trying to draw the scumhunt off of yomi. Besides him, there really hasn't been much finger-pointing recently.
yomi:
On April 23 2012 15:21 yomi wrote:
Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching.
No. Not good enough.
1. Why do lie about not wanting a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
2. If you really want conversation, then why is your filter filled with baseless accusations and garbage like this:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 08:12 yomi wrote:
hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said. On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway. On April 23 2012 11:31 yomi wrote:
I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie. On April 23 2012 15:36 yomi wrote:
i told you why I voted for you. btw you are annoying i'm not talking to you any more for the next 12 hours
It's pretty much nothing but pointless one-liners.
And please, don't answer my questions with more one-liners.
##Vote: yomi
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On April 23 2012 14:53 nreekay324 wrote:
(P.S. Zealos stop acting so scummy, unless you *are* scum, in which case continue so we can lynch you first. <3)
Sorry, what? What on earth kind of a thing to say is this? You make a completely random accusation about me being scum with no evidence at all.
Oh, and, I am happy to respond to case's against me, but at the moment I can't see any. All I see is people posting lots of other people's names and then going on to tell town what they've done so far in the game. It doesn't help. We can read.
It seems like it's gonna be pretty hard to find the mafia team when there's so many people posting terribly.
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Oh, and, I really don't know how you can quote me and STILL spell my name wrong:On April 23 2012 14:53 nreekay324 wrote:-Zealous + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 05:25 Zealos wrote:
I think it's not a useful thing to discuss early on and leads to little scumhunting and a poor town atmosphere.
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I wrote this post last night and decided to wait a little bit more before posting it
On April 23 2012 14:39 mutant wrote:
1. Why do you say you don't necessarily want a lynch, then immediately vote for
Maju?
2. Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real
conversation has happened?
1. why not?
Why do you guys think this is somehow contradictory? It's not. I don't know how to explain it other than to restate it. I don't think we necessarily should, but IF WE DO, here's my vote. maybe my answer to #2 will clarify
2. Because it makes people take sides and it starts a real discussion instead of the really stupid typical day 1 shit (like this conversation). You see how people react when they get REAL pressure on them. Not "i'm just doing this to pressure you teeheehee" baby shit. Real pressure that's really believable. I'm genuinely voting for maju. Not just seeing his reaction. I was going to sit on that vote until I got a reaction I can really respond to (more on that later).
I find it really telling how certain people flip out over one vote when the point of the game is to vote. I also think it's very humorous that some of you would honestly believe a mafia would play this way. If you have accused me of being scummy and this is not your first game, you are on my red list. Because any remotely experienced player knows that fearless town play (you think I didn't know I would get a backlash?) wins games and that mafia DO NOT play this way. so vote guys. trust me it's a lot better. day 1 is so so painful and full of ridiculous awful shit. it's better if everyone just votes asap and we can see what happens and we can always back down from the votes later if we aren't sure enough to go through with it.
If you are afraid to post information about yourself, you are red.
When you analyze posts don't just "look for suspicion". What are you suspicious OF? Suspicious that I play aggressively? Is this how mafia play? Think about what would a mafia do? What is the player trying to accomplish with this post?
This is probably the most interesting post for me so far
On April 23 2012 23:33 oneplus wrote:
1) Yomi try to start the game with a random lynch on Maju trying to pressure him for discussion in my point of view , he is either trying to scumhunt or he is a scum. Also, he is not targeting the lurkers but Maju which is a bit werid for me. Btw why bring history in? This will only make you become more suspicious. I think that past history shouldn't be taken account hence this is a new game.
But I don't think Yomi is scum because it's simply too dangerous for scum to act in such way, high chance he will be lynch if he randomly target someone in this case who is Maju. For me it looks like scumhunt more than scum.
2) Zealots is pretty much a 1 liner who doesn't really contribute anything yet, he is a decent vote at the moment.
3)Well everyone has posted something but they didn't say much they just say lynch someone which could be suspicious such as dracolich and insecto we might need more from them.
4)Inmallinson just pointed out he's a mafia last game is this intentionally? hmm...
He correctly identifies that I am not scum since a mafia would not play this way. BUT he objects to posting information about himself and encourages others not to do it? very very red thing to say.
This will only make you become more suspicious.
make who more suspicious? me? "one" in general? you?
why would posting information about yourself make you suspicious?
On the other hand he is defending the top lynch target which a mafia should not do right now. But on my last game when I was mafia I was really concerned with building town cred by "calling" all the lynches correctly. Ya, it's WIFOM, but I think it's a common mafia ploy. All the town seem to think playing aggro is a mafia trait. It's not. But this guy has interpreted it differently. Why? Is he more perceptive than you guys or trying to position himself to "i told you so" when I get lynched and flip town. When I played mafia, I tried to do the latter.
4) wtf? intentionally what? I mean he didn't type it by accident. What do you mean by this?
@maju
why are you playing so defensively? You have one vote on you. you need 6 or 7 to die. no one else has shown any interest in voting for you. you are in no danger. yet you can't do much other than ask me why I'm voting for your 3 or 4 times in a row. mafia play to survive, town plays to win.
@dracolich
if you think we can have "valid" information on day1 you are fooling yourself. no investigation roles went out so there is no valid information. we can't even get voting patterns b/c no one will vote.
most everyone said we should lynch day 1 yet has taken no action towards accomplishing that.
On April 24 2012 00:22 ForTheDr3am wrote:
but it seems that there is only one actual vote on him up to now, making me think that there are still people with an interest to keep him alive.
please elaborate on this comment
also note FTD is the 2nd player to openly criticize the sharing of information.
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On April 24 2012 01:24 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +This post is very weird even as a first post for a rookie. First, you post a list which is basically a mix of events and statements, so pretty much completely use- and contentless. The rest of the post apparently is written with the intention to slow down scumhunting. You state that people might be emulating behaviorism, which is quite pointless to say as scum will always try to appear as town, with or without reference play. The list was trying to draw a picture of how I feel the events thus far. Which is either guided by paranoia, or as a initiator for debate(?). I am not sure if this is the right way, as it can clutter the thread mightily quickly. If you feel it is content less, then it is because most of the accusations are pretty weak. It was pretty much the highlights, as I see it. I just said that knowing the behavior of either one, makes it easier to manipulate, and right now, I feel/fear some are trying to manipulate the course of actions with pointing fingers left and right. Show nested quote +Then, you claim that making too many accusations will muddy up the place with fake/useless information, and that making cases is based on luck. You seem to be afraid of the town getting things done. Why would you be? You should be making cases yourself and analyzing people instead if you want to be helpful. Posts like this one make you seem like scum. I don't know if it is rocket science, but if we all take turns to point fingers at 2-3 in each of our posts, and they in turn do the same, it gets pretty muddied. Isn't saying "pointing too many accusations will muddy up the place" something logical? Sorry, it is to me. I have still said I am okay with a lynch, however I am not a supporter of just lynching someone to make something happen. And as I stated - I am very open to valid information. Is this the part where I should point fingers at you?
Making "highlights" of what happened in the thread is a very easy way for scum to pretend that they are contributing. Unlike what you claim, it also does not give a picture about what you feel as you have no input on your own. It isn't even a proper list of events as random statements are mixed into it.
When you say manipulate, who will manipulate what? The mafia the general flow of the thread? Other people? Yes, scum will sometimes try to control the thread and always try to appear as town. Saying that is just as empty as your list.
Certainly, the fear of the thread going down in confusion from having too many people making too many accusations is a valid one - if that was actually happening. However, it isn't, and you preemptively tried to discourage people from making advances at a time where not too much has happened yet in first place. How, in your eyes, should town be productive at all if not by analyzing posts? If everybody posted like you did, we would have no suspects at the end of the day, no information to build on later. Why do you still refuse to put forth any sort of opinion apart from unsubtly hinting that I am cluttering up the thread?
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@Zealos:
It wasn't nreekay who made the case against you, it was ArcticFox. The question was, why would a townie be so blatantly unfriendly and disruptive. You have been called out several times now but only serve more posts of the same sort.
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@yomi:
You gave a very easy and obvious bandwagon to jump on, and I was surprised that apart from ArcticFox, nobody had voted for you yet.
I am also pretty sure I did not say anywhere that I don't condone the sharing of information. I called you posting your filter from last game ironic, as just like last time, you seem to think that it actually means anything.
Now to the latest wall of text.
I'm genuinely voting for maju. Not just seeing his reaction. I was going to sit on that vote until I got a reaction I can really respond to (more on that later).
So, you genuinely voted for him, not just to see his reaction, and were going to sit on that vote until you got a reaction. Ok.
Because any remotely experienced player knows that fearless town play (you think I didn't know I would get a backlash?) wins games and that mafia DO NOT play this way. so vote guys. trust me it's a lot better. day 1 is so so painful and full of ridiculous awful shit. it's better if everyone just votes asap and we can see what happens and we can always back down from the votes later if we aren't sure enough to go through with it.
"Mafia does not do this and that." The perfect line that makes town lose. If you think that what you are doing at the moment is good townplay, it stands to reason that you would attempt a similar play as scum as well. See how that works?
You also keep telling town what they are supposed to do - without doing much of the sort yourself.
You did point out oneplus' post, but only come up with even more WIFOM. "I think Mafia would do that because that what I tried to do when I was mafia!" (In the game where you nearly got lynched at day 1, one might add).
As I said before, refusing to randomly spam "information" from outside of the game is not suspicious. These meta-arguments are always very iffy, and it surprises me that you are so adamant about it. Do you think just by acting slightly similar to last game you will get town-cred?
Also,
I wrote this post last night and decided to wait a little bit more before posting it
how does withholding information (not that it was too relevant) help us? So that we have to spend more time contemplating the reasons of your erratic play?
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Do you think just by acting slightly dissimilar to last game you will get town-cred?
Fixed.
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Firstly, I apologize for spelling your name wrong , Zealos, I didn’t proofread very well, and I tend to type things based on how they sound in my head. However, in my defense I wasn’t the only one who did this,
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 23:33 oneplus wrote:
2) Zealots is pretty much a 1 liner who doesn't really contribute anything yet, he is a decent vote at the moment.
Assuming Zealots was meant to be Zealos. Also, it can be seen that oneplus is explicity stating you’re a decent vote, Zealos.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 02:12 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 14:53 nreekay324 wrote:
(P.S. Zealos stop acting so scummy, unless you *are* scum, in which case continue so we can lynch you first. <3) Sorry, what? What on earth kind of a thing to say is this? You make a completely random accusation about me being scum with no evidence at all. Oh, and, I am happy to respond to case's against me, but at the moment I can't see any. All I see is people posting lots of other people's names and then going on to tell town what they've done so far in the game. It doesn't help. We can read. It seems like it's gonna be pretty hard to find the mafia team when there's so many people posting terribly.
The quote of me stating that you are acting scummy, is a re-quote from ArcticFox’s first post. That creates a list of ArcticFox, oneplus, and me believing your posts have been suspicious. Therefore I don’t believe that the accusation is random, at all.
Here’s what I saw;
1. You state that it’s typical scum behavior to post a lot of stuff under the guise of useful posting, yet most of your posts are, as oneplus put it, one-liners and simple-agreement posts. It seemed contradictory to me, suspicious.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 06:54 Zealos wrote:
[It's very typical scum behaviour. Making no actual reads, but posting a load of stuff under the guise of "useful posting"
2. The above statement indirectly states Maju is scum, but you don’t sort through Maju’s comments and build a case. You’re subtly setting up Maju for a lynch.
3.+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:
He's right, no lynch = really bad.
This statement is in reference to ForTheDr3am’s first post stating that the town shouldn’t be in favor of no lynch. FTD got called out for his original post, and had a few posts back-and-forth with St. Daniel re-examining his position. But you didn’t give any extra reasons, or really anything else, more suspicion.
4. Your latest reply in your defensive seems to be directed at me, as if I was the only person who believes you to be suspicious. + Show Spoiler +(Also, I listed a bunch of other people’s names and discussed their posts, but gave my opinions on them at the very least. that was still somewhat earlier on, and I thought it was a good point to jump in.)
I am under the impression that Maju was to be alienated and the town was to off-him early on. This is in line with my suspicions of Zealos, as he casually set-up Maju for this purpose. Then, shortly thereafter, Yomi jumps in and explicitly targets Maju.
I just read your latest post, Yomi. Looking at your filter, it’s somewhat believable to me that you wanted to play an aggressive towny. But I noticed some people ( me included) feel that he’s an idiotic towny playing scummy. So, where do you stand now with your vote? Still, Maju? But, if I may indulge in my theory of Maju being set-up, then you’d be scum, cleverly building a defense for yourself, and Maju would still be an easy D1 mis-lynch. And finally, by citing your history as scum another game as grounds for defending your current play doesn't seem like a good claim for your scummyness or innocence. Your posts have seemed to inject as much chaos into this thread as Maju's have, especially with your "elaborate" play of voting Maju = good discussion.
I'm currently on voting for yomi or Zealos, ima sleep on it.
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I don't even know....
My post was about the fact people have called me suspicious for no proper reason. It's just players looking to jump on the first person that doesn't fit in with their idea of a "Proper player"
So no, my post wasn't "Directed" at you (except for the obvious spelling blunder) Instead, it was at all the people calling me suspicious with no backup at all.
And on 3. I make my point, and have nothing more to say. It's just a fact, no lynches are not good, discussing policy any further is pointless.
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I'm not going to go through and run a search on all of you guys. post your dam games or at least say if you're played or not y/n
how can this request meet so much disagreement and noncompliance?
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I've played:
A Game of Thrones Mafia - Double Voter
Mafia VIII (I think was the name) - Mafia Goon.
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On April 24 2012 03:37 ForTheDr3am wrote:
@yomi:
You gave a very easy and obvious bandwagon to jump on, and I was surprised that apart from ArcticFox, nobody had voted for you yet.
It seemed to me that you were implying the people that "have an interest in keeping me alive" were mafia. Was this not your implication?
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On April 24 2012 05:18 yomi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 03:37 ForTheDr3am wrote:
@yomi:
You gave a very easy and obvious bandwagon to jump on, and I was surprised that apart from ArcticFox, nobody had voted for you yet.
It seemed to me that you were implying the people that "have an interest in keeping me alive" were mafia. Was this not your implication?
Not exactly. I didn't mean to say that everyone who defends you automatically makes himself suspicious in my eyes, but that the fact that you weren't jumped on is a slight indicator that you are not a perfectly innocent townie.
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*weren't jumped on harder
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Making "highlights" of what happened in the thread is a very easy way for scum to pretend that they are contributing. Unlike what you claim, it also does not give a picture about what you feel as you have no input on your own. It isn't even a proper list of events as random statements are mixed into it. Or it could just be a list of things that happened as I saw it when I opened up the thread for the first time, and saw people were already at each other with very little substance in their hand to guide them.
The highlights are pretty accurate, I believe. Highlights don't muddy threads, but clearify. I bet mafia likes obfuscation, what do you think?
I find it problematic for instance that you hope for good discussions, and then you bark at every tree you can find, and trying to suggest what people should be posting to be of use to you. Is that in relation with you not being around on deadlines, and want to control events?
When you say manipulate, who will manipulate what? The mafia the general flow of the thread? Other people? Yes, scum will sometimes try to control the thread and always try to appear as town. Saying that is just as empty as your list. Do you just post to post? Town/"town" can play in a lot of different ways, as can mafia. I hope you realize the dynamism of people having played before. If you find it empty, then so be it. I think of it making people aware, especially when people accused, then got counter-accused. Right now you are trying to dictate how I should play. I am not in the know of what people know, as this is labeled newbie game.
Certainly, the fear of the thread going down in confusion from having too many people making too many accusations is a valid one - if that was actually happening. However, it isn't, and you preemptively tried to discourage people from making advances at a time where not too much has happened yet in first place. How, in your eyes, should town be productive at all if not by analyzing posts? If everybody posted like you did, we would have no suspects at the end of the day, no information to build on later. Why do you still refuse to put forth any sort of opinion apart from unsubtly hinting that I am cluttering up the thread? Can you make up your mind? If I pointed out this is what has transpired, and it is valid, then my posting is valid. I was the first to say it. If people have jumped onto the right track, then I have been of more use than you have thus far with your guns blazing at shadows. So far I have spent most time explaining a post that is pretty self explanatory in the first place - twice now.
I have already given a name and accepted d1 lynch. I can still change it.
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I am going to agree that yomi is acting very suspicious, he jumped onto MajuGarzett for seemingly no reason and never gave much reason why. One possible reason I could see is this someone jumped on a fellow scum right away and he wanted to get the heat off and derail conversations without ever giving reasons for his lynch choices.
There were two people being discussed at this point as possible scum: St. Daniel and Zealos.
On April 23 2012 06:10 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad. I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia.
Maju discusses st. daniel asking for help gives signs he may not be a vanilla townie. We don't have much evidence to either way to what st daniel actually is but seeing as he is new he could actually need some help and I don't think we have any evidence to really support he being anything other than a townie.
Zealos however is a little more suspicious. This is his first reply since the post above. In the post he criticizes the talk that has been going on. I see a problem with this since we may not have any solid information ro run off of right now, we sure will soon with results of lynching and who the mafia decides to pick off. All of this discussion while not very useful now may become very useful later on.
On April 24 2012 02:12 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 14:53 nreekay324 wrote:
(P.S. Zealos stop acting so scummy, unless you *are* scum, in which case continue so we can lynch you first. <3) Sorry, what? What on earth kind of a thing to say is this? You make a completely random accusation about me being scum with no evidence at all. Oh, and, I am happy to respond to case's against me, but at the moment I can't see any. All I see is people posting lots of other people's names and then going on to tell town what they've done so far in the game. It doesn't help. We can read. It seems like it's gonna be pretty hard to find the mafia team when there's so many people posting terribly.
Out of his own words earlier in the thread:
On April 23 2012 06:54 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 06:36 ForTheDr3am wrote:On April 23 2012 06:10 MajuGarzett wrote:On April 23 2012 05:58 Zealos wrote:On April 23 2012 05:53 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Justice will prevail.
One thing to keep in mind is that we are using an Extended Majority Vote in this game. I want to encourage people to not consider no lynch too much. It might seem tempting to not lynch day 1 because of the lack of information, but the best way to gather information is by good discussion. Any sort of consensus to not lynch will only benefit scum.
That being said, I won't be around for deadlines in this game, so I hope no major last-minute bandwagons take place. He's right, no lynch = really bad. I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia. How are exactly are we to understand the fact that according to you, he has "shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie" but "no distinct signs of being mafia? It's very typical scum behaviour. Making no actual reads, but posting a load of stuff under the guise of "useful posting"
Except it seems zealos has never added much of anything to the thread other than to criticize the discussion that was happening. Originially when writing this I was going to vote for yomi, If he is mafia he is running a very risky play, after going through what zealos has to say, which is that our discussion is terrible, my vote goes to him.
##Vote: Zealos
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On April 24 2012 05:16 yomi wrote:
I'm not going to go through and run a search on all of you guys. post your dam games or at least say if you're played or not y/n
how can this request meet so much disagreement and noncompliance?
Doing your research is all part of the game. You should have already done this if you're town and trying to do meta-reads. Also quite the aggressive way to get people to do it.
I'm not sure why you're trying to draw attention to the way people have played in the other games. You're posting is pretty close to how you acted in our last game (Newbie 8), where you were scum, and I also put my vote on you Day 1.
Furthermore, posting metaplay in the main thread is distracting -- anyone who's interested has already done it, and if there's not a case being made based on it, it's pointless to bring it in without having a relevant discussion attached. It's entirely different if you're bringing up someone's filter from another game specifically to make a case. Without making cases, it's another way to fluff up your post count without actually contributing anything, plus it brings up easy ways to WIFOM and distract the thread into a meaningless discussion.
Side note -- I'm loathe to do connection play this early, but I find it highly interesting that the only person so far to follow along with this idea of yours to post our game history is my 2nd strongest scumread right now. @Zealos, your filter still reads full of one-liners, a negative attitude, and a whole bunch of posting without saying anything. I'd like your best scum read so far, based on the information we have, and why?
@imallinson -- you're lurking HARD right now, with only 1 post. Step up and contribute. Same question -- top scum read, and why?
@oneplus -- same thing from you. You have a couple of very short list posts, with one particularly alarming bit:
On April 23 2012 23:33 oneplus wrote:
But I don't think Yomi is scum because it's simply too dangerous for scum to act in such way, high chance he will be lynch if he randomly target someone in this case who is Maju.
If you haven't read the newbie guide yet, go look up WIFOM and read about it. Talking about motivations leads you in circles.
So if yomi isn't a scum in your mind -- who is, and why?
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On April 24 2012 02:06 mutant wrote:yomi: Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 15:21 yomi wrote:
Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching. No. Not good enough. 1. Why do lie about not wanting a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?2. If you really want conversation, then why is your filter filled with baseless accusations and garbage like this: + Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 08:12 yomi wrote:
hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said. On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway. On April 23 2012 11:31 yomi wrote:
I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie. On April 23 2012 15:36 yomi wrote:
i told you why I voted for you. btw you are annoying i'm not talking to you any more for the next 12 hours It's pretty much nothing but pointless one-liners. And please, don't answer my questions with more one-liners. ##Vote: yomi
I'm not sure if this is supposed to be a serious post.
1. Why do lie about not wanting a lynch, then immediately vote for Maju?
Um...really? Where do I lie? Specifically quote for me what I said that's a lie. YOUR post is actually a lie because it is such a gross, obvious, intentional misrepresentation of what I've said.
Sorry "one-liners" offend you so much. I'll be sure not to post when I have a single concise statement to make.
Because the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching.
what about this statement do you disagree with? what's "not good enough" about it? I think it's a perfectly legitimate rational for coming out strong and voting for someone.
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I so far have 3 main candidates for being mafia.
1. yomi
His first action this game was to state he's unsure of whether anyone should be lynched but then proceeds to vote anyways. When told that this was contradictory he said that he only meant if we do decide on lynching he would vote for me. While this does make some sense, if he was unsure of lynching why vote right off the bat. He could have instead just suggested whom to vote for and started a discussion about whether I as mafia.
He could not and still has not given reasons for his vote. To cover this up he says avoids the questions asked by multiple players and says that townies should have no fear of voting.
You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz.
He also says that there is nothing to lose by voting me off since if I'm not mafia I'm a dunce. This is untrue as the lynching of any townie brings the mafia closer to victory. So, as we can see, townies should be make sure their votes are sensible and not vote hastily as yomi would have us do.
From my point of view, yomi tried to get the one who had posted the most lynched and then when he couldn't give a reason why said he wouldn't talk to me as I was a dunce. Furthermore, he tried to escape suspicion by saying he voted to create discussion. How though did he think his vote would create discussion when he gave no reasons for his vote and therefore nothing to debate?
@maju
why are you playing so defensively? You have one vote on you. you need 6 or 7 to die. no one else has shown any interest in voting for you. you are in no danger. yet you can't do much other than ask me why I'm voting for your 3 or 4 times in a row. mafia play to survive, town plays to win.
Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.
Yomi's next major post was to ask for everyone's history in mafia games. For the record, this is my first game. I suspect this was done as yomi was mafia in the last game and had posted in a similar acrimonious style. He would expect us to think that if he was mafia this game he would have realised the flaw in his posting style and stopped it. This response is shown quite well through oneplus' statement:
"But I don't think Yomi is scum because it's simply too dangerous for scum to act in such way, high chance he will be lynch if he randomly target someone in this case who is Maju. "
I however believe that he merely did not think his initial posts through and tried to use his previous game to make others think that he is not mafia.
Overall yomi gives me a vibe of trying to get rid of townies as quick as possible with as little discussion as possible and that his other posts are just trying to get attention away from himself. As of now I am leaning most towards voting for him.
2. Zealos
Looking at Zealos' filter, we can see that he has contributed very little substance to debates. He has avoided both voting and saying that he is suspicious of anyone. His posts have mainly been responses to people saying they are suspicious of him or voting for him. Like yomi, he posts in a rather acrimonious manner though this I don't think can be used as evidence against him as that may just be the type of person he is. My main qualm with Zealos is that he has been posting to avoid being labeled as a lurker but has really contributed nothing as of yet except for
It's very typical scum behaviour. Making no actual reads, but posting a load of stuff under the guise of "useful posting"
3. imallinson
This I am least sure of as he has only posted once. This post was in part protecting yomi who I strongly think is mafia which inclines me to think that imallinson is mafia as well. Essentially he seems like a lurker protecting a suspected mafia.
I am slightly suspicious of dracholich as he has been subtly discouraging voting and has not posted any opinions other than a condemnation of yomi which wasn't all that firm.
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@ArcticFox: What does ##FoS mean?
@Zealos: Did you ever end up answering the question about why a townie would be so disruptive?
@Maju: Nice post for a "total dunce/mafia"
Why do you suspect imallinson over oneplus? Any particular reason?
@yomi:
On April 24 2012 12:11 yomi wrote:
Um...really? Where do I lie? Specifically quote for me what I said that's a lie. YOUR post is actually a lie because it is such a gross, obvious, intentional misrepresentation of what I've said.
Actions speak louder than words. That entire first post of yours reeks. You don't want to lynch... yet you start off with voting. You say you do this to see how Maju reacts...when there is no reason to suspect Maju (in fact, you do this because he is "an idiot". This struck me as trying to set him up for an easy lynch). When pressed about this, you say
On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
You should all be voting, townies have no reason to fear voting. Mafia are afraid to take concrete stances. Everyone vote asap plz.
and later on
On April 24 2012 02:25 yomi wrote:
I'm genuinely voting for maju. Not just seeing his reaction.
I shall to defer to Dr3am here, who put this far more eloquently than I could:
On April 24 2012 03:37 ForTheDr3am wrote:
So, you genuinely voted for him, not just to see his reaction, and were going to sit on that vote until you got a reaction. Ok.
Emphasis mine.
You say you don't want a lynch, but your behavior, and the way you are trying to convince people to vote, and most importantly your genuine vote, speaks most clearly to me that you in fact do. And when you try and rationalize it, you...can't. All you do is assert that it isn't, if we just "think about it". And you also flame :/
This is all your lie. Not a mere quote, but an analysis of your actions.
On April 24 2012 12:11 yomi wrote:
what about this statement do you disagree with? what's "not good enough" about it? I think it's a perfectly legitimate rational for coming out strong and voting for someone.
Sure, it's a legitimate rationale for voting. The problem is that you don't actually do this
Again, here are the quotes from that post:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 08:12 yomi wrote:
hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
not much to explain, it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said. On April 23 2012 10:13 yomi wrote:
I'm not moving off maju atm he is a total dunce/mafia so not much lost if he ends up town anyway. On April 23 2012 11:31 yomi wrote:
I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie. On April 23 2012 15:36 yomi wrote:
i told you why I voted for you. btw you are annoying i'm not talking to you any more for the next 12 hours
This is not a discussion! This is you making pointless one-liners! In fact, the only time you sat down and made an attempt at a decent post, it was full of holes, as ForTheDr3am was so gracious to point out.
So yes, a great rationale. It is not, however, yours.
On April 24 2012 12:11 yomi wrote:
Sorry "one-liners" offend you so much. I'll be sure not to post when I have a single concise statement to make.
You forgot the key-word there. pointless
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@Maju: Nice post for a "total dunce/mafia"
Why do you suspect imallinson over oneplus? Any particular reason?
I forgot to examine oneplus' filter I guess. You're right though, he has posted similarly to allin as he's only posted twice and protected someone who I strongly suspect is mafia. I guess oneplus is a candidate for mafia as well.
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@Arctic, I don't fluff my post so it is always short and simple straight to the point, the more fluffy your post are the more scummy you are. Also, I think you didn't go through my post clear enough as you ask the question I have already answer which I said Zealos is a decent vote after trying to protect Yomi as his play is too aggresive to be mafia.
It's all good to read other players past games but it is really bad to use the past information to convince people in the current one. You has also started to bring your previous game information into this one where you had voted yomi as one of the evidence to vote yomi.
@Yomi, I am strongly against the use of past history to determine the game play for current one because it's not fair, you are trying to convince us with your previous game play which doesn't make sense and making you suspicious. I don't think you are a scum from voting Maju but the way you want everyone to bring out history has made me lost my confidence on you. You might be a town but I don't think you use the correct way for scumhunt when it's too much.
@Zealos, You are the most suspicious here because you are a 1 liner, you didn't contribute anything yet. Although there is no concrete evidence on you which proven you to be a scum but what have you contribued so far?
On April 24 2012 02:12 Zealos wrote:
Oh, and, I am happy to respond to case's against me, but at the moment I can't see any. All I see is people posting lots of other people's names and then going on to tell town what they've done so far in the game. It doesn't help. We can read.
It seems like it's gonna be pretty hard to find the mafia team when there's so many people posting terribly.
Saying this kind of demotivation post aren't helping, you will just make more people go against you. If you are a town I hope you can come out with some statement which is presuasive enough and stop defending yourself with more 1 line post.
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@Maju, Nreekay got the same read as me on Yomi which he’s an idiotic towny playing scummy. We are not protecting him, we want to bring out the fact that this is a possibility on his play. We should think out of the box and evaluating all the possibility, it is too early to make comfirmation that "Yomi is a scum" yet in my point of view. I just want everyone to think twice before yomi.
Maju, suspecting someone who is not defending you is not a good town play.
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This is my take thus far on my top suspects, and basis of my vote.
1) Maju:
Firstly he starts by offering both a question and a suggestion, "Should we lynch lurkers? I think we should." now that he has posted, it seems like a suspect way of trying to not let suspicion fall onto him, and reaching consensus, which he offers soon after. In fact stating it is more important that generating discussions. "Well the main purpose was to get a consensus on how things should be done, generating discussion is just another benefit."
Secondly he responds to Zealos offer, " He's right, no lynch = really bad.", with "I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia." (more on this below).
Thirdly when yomi votes for him, he immediately counter-accuses yomi, with this: "Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched."
I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such. He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, when it comes to st. Daniel for the weak reason of him asking for help in a newbie game, much like he even did before Daniel, and I am "dumbfounded" as to why he did this. Lastly, that on one hand he offers to Zealos that we should lynch someone, but then uses the exact same reasoning against yomi as suspect. If we should suspect yomi on these things, then it should be more so with Maju. At best Maju is hypocritical.
Soon after we find statements such as this: "Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible.", "It is, I just wanted to get clarification on the source of Daniel's statement since it could help tell if dr3am is mafia.", "I just meant he might be mafia or he might be a detective or medic or something."(concerning lurkers, something he doesn't consider is on yomis mind), ": I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier", "Yeah, I realise now that I didn't really think that through."
Maybe the best answers can be found here: "Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.". Why would he be fearful 1) as a townie. 2) That yomis near no-reason posts would gain traction?
2) Yomi.
I am conflicted on yomi. On one hand he offers some of the same fears that I have with not giving away too much information, when it comes to roles, but more importantly it was this that caught my immediate attention on him: " it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.", which is something I myself have tried to avoid, and thought was happening right off the bat.
The bad things are that like Maju, he is of little use at best, if he doesn't aid town in some way. He is constantly evasive, and reluctant to answer questions directly, ie "Can everyone post how many games they've played in (on this or other sites) and what they were in those other games (if it's just a few). And links to the games.", and him under the belief that day 1 doesn't provide any useful information/reading options. To it seems like he doesn't really care, if we catch scum or not.
And for the most part, we see him not willing to offer anything, on the contrary. I am not sure if I should put too much into him playing this way as scum, but it can't be a positive thing.
##Vote: Maju.
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##Vote: Zealos
yomi's my number 2.
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I genuinly don't know what I am defending myself from. Hence all the one liners.
Add to this the fact that we're at day 1 so there is not much to go on.
I don't think I have been particually desruptive myself, instead, the reactions from other players and me have cause this thread to become filled with useless discussion.
We as a town have to focus on scummy play, not just me being a bit silly at the start of the game. I posted my thoughts as soon as the popped into my head, and I will admit that it has caused a little bit of disruption. So I'm going to be posting more useful thoughts from now on. Starting with this:
##Vote: MajuGarzett
He startes by pointlessly discussing policy
Should we lynch lurkers? think we probably should. (Note, he can't even make his mind up 100% about this.
Then he stresses the fact he is new: Though as I haven't played before it may well lead to a poor town atmosphere as you suggested. This is something mafia do to try to hide their scummy play.
Then he makes this attack on yomi that makes very little sense to me Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched.
Then, as a responce to an accusation, he attacks the very fact that someone accused him, as opposed to arguing the point Initially claiming you may not want to lynch anybody, then launching seemingly unfounded accusations, then pressuring everyone else to follow you blindly seems pretty scummy to me.
This is one of the most Scummy first day's I've seen in my 3 games so far.
So, he is my first choice, with Yomi at 2 (I understand I defended yomi in my accusation of Maju, however, I only said Maju's argument was flawed, no the conclusion.
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On April 24 2012 10:15 ArcticFox wrote:
Doing your research is all part of the game. You should have already done this if you're town and trying to do meta-reads. Also quite the aggressive way to get people to do it.
trying to hide information
I'm not sure why you're trying to draw attention to the way people have played in the other games. You're posting is pretty close to how you acted in our last game (Newbie 8), where you were scum, and I also put my vote on you Day 1.
all true statements
Furthermore, posting metaplay in the main thread is distracting -- anyone who's interested has already done it, and if there's not a case being made based on it, it's pointless to bring it in without having a relevant discussion attached. It's entirely different if you're bringing up someone's filter from another game specifically to make a case. Without making cases, it's another way to fluff up your post count without actually contributing anything, plus it brings up easy ways to WIFOM and distract the thread into a meaningless discussion.
but you just made a meta argument yourself
Side note -- I'm loathe to do connection play this early, but I find it highly interesting that the only person so far to follow along with this idea of yours to post our game history is my 2nd strongest scumread right now. @Zealos, your filter still reads full of one-liners, a negative attitude, and a whole bunch of posting without saying anything. I'd like your best scum read so far, based on the information we have, and why?
but this IS a connection play
If you haven't read the newbie guide yet, go look up WIFOM and read about it. Talking about motivations leads you in circles.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think you get what this phrase "WIFOM" means. It doesn't mean you don't look at motivations. It means you don't confuse yourself with levels and levels of guessing games. "He knows that I know that he knows etc". The first one or two levels of guessing games are pretty much the only way to find mafia at all. Mafia will attempt to act in their best interest. Therefore if you identify a move you think benefits mafia, and someone makes that move, they are probably mafia. Do you agree with this reasoning? And if so how is it not "talking about motivations".
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On April 24 2012 14:52 mutant wrote:
@ArcticFox: What does ##FoS mean?
It's shorthand for "Finger of Suspicion". It means I believe he's scum and I'm keeping an eye on him. There's a nice list of all the often used abbreviations in the newbie guides.
On April 24 2012 15:26 oneplus wrote:
@Arctic, I don't fluff my post so it is always short and simple straight to the point, the more fluffy your post are the more scummy you are. Also, I think you didn't go through my post clear enough as you ask the question I have already answer which I said Zealos is a decent vote after trying to protect Yomi as his play is too aggresive to be mafia.
It's all good to read other players past games but it is really bad to use the past information to convince people in the current one. You has also started to bring your previous game information into this one where you had voted yomi as one of the evidence to vote yomi.
I never said you needed to fluff up your posts. I said that so far your 2 short posts hadn't said anything, and I was right. I wanted you to contribute more, which you've started to do. As for the "it's bad to use past information" part, showing connections to how someone acted when they were town/scum in a previous game is an important skill to have, and if it strengthens your case, it can be helpful to link it or show it. But blindly just linking all your past games is just an easy way to say you're bringing in information without actually adding anything relevant. It's a complete scum move.
Now, with that out of the way -- my greatest concern this morning is that we have 3 people with votes on them, and the votes are all over the place. The lynch is an extended majority lynch, meaning with 12 alive, we'll need 7 votes to lynch anyone. The vote is in 10 hours. I would like us to get to a consensus on a good lynch target.
I wouldn't be opposed to a no-lynch if there were no suspects, but we have 4 legitimate targets, and the field needs to be narrowed down.
MajuGarrett -- The case has already been made against him, and I have my own opinions on it, but I'm far more interested in what he has to say in his own defense, so I want to see him post again before I jump to any conclusions.
Zealos -- A lot of issue was made (started by me, actually) about his negative seeming comments at the start of the game. His last couple of posts show some effort, but again, I want to see what Maju has to say about the case before I comment on it. He still seems red, not a bad lynch choice, but I think there are better.
yomi -- My case is clear, and has yet to be refuted. yomi's posting has become no better since then, and my vote remains here until I'm convinced otherwise.
imallinson -- If yomi isn't lynched, this is my 2nd choice. He's posted once, said nothing of substance, and disappeared. Could be disinterested town, but he's playing much more like a lurking scum so far.
We have 10 hours left, and we need more active discussion than what we've had. Let's step it up a bit. Specifically I'd like the people who haven't voted yet to place your vote somewhere so we can start narrowing down this list more.
I'd also like Maju to say what he thinks of Zealos' case against him.
I'd also like imallinson to say anything of substance.
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On April 25 2012 01:00 yomi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 10:15 ArcticFox wrote:
Doing your research is all part of the game. You should have already done this if you're town and trying to do meta-reads. Also quite the aggressive way to get people to do it.
trying to hide information Show nested quote +I'm not sure why you're trying to draw attention to the way people have played in the other games. You're posting is pretty close to how you acted in our last game (Newbie 8), where you were scum, and I also put my vote on you Day 1. all true statements Show nested quote +
Furthermore, posting metaplay in the main thread is distracting -- anyone who's interested has already done it, and if there's not a case being made based on it, it's pointless to bring it in without having a relevant discussion attached. It's entirely different if you're bringing up someone's filter from another game specifically to make a case. Without making cases, it's another way to fluff up your post count without actually contributing anything, plus it brings up easy ways to WIFOM and distract the thread into a meaningless discussion.
but you just made a meta argument yourself Show nested quote +
Side note -- I'm loathe to do connection play this early, but I find it highly interesting that the only person so far to follow along with this idea of yours to post our game history is my 2nd strongest scumread right now. @Zealos, your filter still reads full of one-liners, a negative attitude, and a whole bunch of posting without saying anything. I'd like your best scum read so far, based on the information we have, and why?
but this IS a connection play Show nested quote +
If you haven't read the newbie guide yet, go look up WIFOM and read about it. Talking about motivations leads you in circles.
I don't think you get what this phrase "WIFOM" means. It doesn't mean you don't look at motivations. It means you don't confuse yourself with levels and levels of guessing games. "He knows that I know that he knows etc". The first one or two levels of guessing games are pretty much the only way to find mafia at all. Mafia will attempt to act in their best interest. Therefore if you identify a move you think benefits mafia, and someone makes that move, they are probably mafia. Do you agree with this reasoning? And if so how is it not "talking about motivations".[/QUOTE]
Let's break this down step by step:
1) I'm not trying to hide information. All the information is out there. I'm saying I shouldn't do your work for you because you can't be assed to do it. Posting my game history when all you have to do is hit my profile and look at my posting and you can see the mafia games I've played in seems like a pointless way to add unnecessary information to the thread.
2/3) As I said -- posting a list of prior games and tallking about "well it could be important later" is pointless, because it's obvious. Specifically picking out the fact that someone acted the same way in a previous game as they do to this game is making a case, therefore relevant and not just filling up the thread pointlessly. Can you see the difference?
4) Also as I said -- I don't like making connections this early, but it was an interesting fact, and something to keep in mind for later, as it was relevant to my 2 strongest scumreads at the time.
5) Thanks for making my point for me. He said that it was SO obvious of a scum play that scum would never do it. That's why it's WIFOM. If it's an obvious scum play, then it's an obvious scum play. Therefore, by countering his argument, you're saying that what you did is an obvious scum play.
Thanks for making my case stronger.
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He lurked last game and was mafia. He's lurking this game and is probably mafia
##unvote
##vote: imallinson
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@Dracolich70
Since you apparently like highlights so much, I will try to summarize our conversation to you. After your first post, I call out to you claiming that it is empty, and that town needs not be afraid of vivid accusations. I thought you would respond either by posting analysis of other players, with an actual case against me or with the newbie card. Instead, you actually answer by insisting that your post was fine. I do clarify about why "highlight" lists are pointless/scummy while asking a few more questions about your stance as well as for analysis. Your response is yet another defensive one absolutely insisting that your first post was fine, while evading all questions and trying to fling a bit more mud at me. A few quotes which I want to point out:
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:The list was trying to draw a picture of how I feel the events thus far. Which is either guided by paranoia, or as a initiator for debate(?). I am not sure if this is the right way, as it can clutter the thread mightily quickly.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:The highlights are pretty accurate, I believe. Highlights don't muddy threads, but clearify. I bet mafia likes obfuscation, what do you think?
Inconsistency speaks for itself, and for me that shows that you did not want to "clearify" anything but rather struggled to find an explanation for writing it afterwards. To respond to your question, yes, mafia does like obfuscation. However, what mafia likes even more is an inactive thread where they barely ever have to defend themselves and everybody basically only lurks. They especially like a town that is afraid of making accusations, something that you still propose.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +When you say manipulate, who will manipulate what? The mafia the general flow of the thread? Other people? Yes, scum will sometimes try to control the thread and always try to appear as town. Saying that is just as empty as your list. Do you just post to post? Town/"town" can play in a lot of different ways, as can mafia. I hope you realize the dynamism of people having played before. If you find it empty, then so be it. I think of it making people aware, especially when people accused, then got counter-accused. Right now you are trying to dictate how I should play. I am not in the know of what people know, as this is labeled newbie game.
Rather than clarify what exactly you are afraid of, you throw together another bunch of sentences that look like an answer. You still haven't said what it is exactly you are afraid of due to what I assume is meta-play. I don't even know what "I hope you realize the dynamism of people having played before." is supposed to mean. You claim you are making people aware - of what? That accusations are bad? Why would scumhunting be bad? Which is something I asked you already and you refused to answer.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +Certainly, the fear of the thread going down in confusion from having too many people making too many accusations is a valid one - if that was actually happening. However, it isn't, and you preemptively tried to discourage people from making advances at a time where not too much has happened yet in first place. How, in your eyes, should town be productive at all if not by analyzing posts? If everybody posted like you did, we would have no suspects at the end of the day, no information to build on later. Why do you still refuse to put forth any sort of opinion apart from unsubtly hinting that I am cluttering up the thread? Can you make up your mind? If I pointed out this is what has transpired, and it is valid, then my posting is valid. I was the first to say it. If people have jumped onto the right track, then I have been of more use than you have thus far with your guns blazing at shadows. So far I have spent most time explaining a post that is pretty self explanatory in the first place - twice now. I have already given a name and accepted d1 lynch. I can still change it.
You do two things here. Firstly, you completely misunderstood (be it by purpose or owing to my overly creative writing style) my post. I said being afraid of confusion resulting in too many people pointing fingers is alright if that was happening (hypothetical scenario). At that point it wasn't happening and I read your post as an unnecessarily angstly one. Secondly, you claim you are the first one to point that out, but in your next post
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:I am conflicted on yomi. On one hand he offers some of the same fears that I have with not giving away too much information, when it comes to roles, but more importantly it was this that caught my immediate attention on him: " it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.", which is something I myself have tried to avoid, and thought was happening right off the bat.
you basically say that he said that first, assuming that the fear of too many accusations and of maniac townies is the same. You still did not answer how you think town should catch scum, if not by accusation and analyzing.
Next, you finally deign yourself to make an analysis, with your prime suspect being Maju (despite only mentioning yomi in an earlier post while Maju had already made basically all the relevant posts you build your case on).
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such. He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, when it comes to st. Daniel for the weak reason of him asking for help in a newbie game, much like he even did before Daniel, and I am "dumbfounded" as to why he did this. Lastly, that on one hand he offers to Zealos that we should lynch someone, but then uses the exact same reasoning against yomi as suspect. If we should suspect yomi on these things, then it should be more so with Maju. At best Maju is hypocritical.
Firstly, wanting an consensus on lynch all lurkers is a few lightyears different from yomi "offering a consensus" by putting an unfounded vote into the room. He is asking yomi to at least give reasons (or anything more than half-flame oneliners) for the vote without giving reasons himself - because he wasn't the one randomly voting. When it comes to St.Daniel, I do agree that it was a questionable post, but what sort of reason would he need to give if the reason why he thought that St.Daniel might be suspicious is that he needed help that early in the game? You say that he is hypocritical for agreeing with the general fact that somebody should be lynched on day 1 while pointing out that yomi is putting an unfounded vote on him, making it more likely that someone is lynched - in the context that yomi said that he wasn't sure whether a day 1 lynch is good himself. Where is the issue?
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:Maybe the best answers can be found here: "Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.". Why would he be fearful 1) as a townie. 2) That yomis near no-reason posts would gain traction?
2) Yomi.
Let's play the "ask yourself that question" game. Why are/were you, too, fearful of accusations in general (while the thread is/was too inactive) and spent two posts being defensive by the means of insisting that your first post was fine? Justifying yourself is fairly natural even for a townie when being pressured (especially with a vote), but why would you use that as a case against Maju when you are doing that yourself? (While also saying that he is hypocritical.)
Your case against yomi isn't really a case, you agree with him on one fact, then say he is of little use while saying yourself before that
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:If people have jumped onto the right track, then I have been of more use than you have thus far with your guns blazing at shadows.
the pointing out what you agreed with him on is at least potentially useful.
To me, all that reeks of inconsistency and scumminess. However, I am aware of the fact that I might be suffering from tunnel vision or confirmation bias, so I'd like to hear other people's response to this for now.
-------
@ArcticFox:
There is one thing I'd like you to clarify for me. What makes imallinson so different from other people who haven't posted a lot, such as insectoceanx or St.Daniel? Even mutant has basically only asked yomi questions that others have asked already.
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Can we get a vote count as a frame of reference please? Thanks!
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On April 25 2012 02:09 ForTheDr3am wrote:
@ArcticFox:
There is one thing I'd like you to clarify for me. What makes imallinson so different from other people who haven't posted a lot, such as insectoceanx or St.Daniel? Even mutant has basically only asked yomi questions that others have asked already.
Insect has at least put a case together and voted for someone. I'd like to see more from him obviously, but you have to pick your battles. nreekay's filter reads a little thin too. St.Daniel is on the list of people who haven't voted or said a whole lot of substance.
imallinson has posted 1 post showing what a few other people are doing, but since has disappeared and hasn't shown up in over 24 hours now. The difference to me is "little effort" vs. "no effort". He's just as likely to get modkilled/replaced though, so if your implication is that it would do us better to focus on people acting scummy, rather than those not acting at all, I can't argue against that.
The ability to lurk without pressure is what killed us last game though -- I do not want a repeat performance of that.
As mentioned, I would far prefer a yomi lynch. Zealos is a good choice too. And I seriously want Maju to show up and say something to the case brought against him.
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EBWOP -- For clarification, I still have a first-time town read on Maju, but I still want him to react to his own case. With 2 votes on him that we need to have in other places due to the lynch system, I'd like him to post something solid to ease the minds of town.
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On April 24 2012 14:52 mutant wrote:
You don't want to lynch
You say you don't want a lynch,
I asked you to quote when I say these things before and I'll ask you to do the same now.
oh oops YOU don't need to use "mere" quotes, your analysis will do us better.
This is all your lie. Not a mere quote, but an analysis of your actions.
derp? what is a "mere" quote? Please indulge me and quote where I said I don't want a lynch.
Mafia don't make the little "slips" you guys are looking for. You have to read into their actions and words. If you could get past your confirmation bias you would see how clear what I said is. You mean for the vote to be a contradiction of me saying I'm not sure we should. Actually it is showing that "not 100% sure" means, just what it sounds like. NOT 100%. How do you interpret not 100% sure as meaning less than 50% sure? Especially when the very next thing I do is vote for someone. Could "not 100% sure" mean "we probably should", but not "we definitely should"? You are so ridiculous and desperate.
the way you are trying to convince people to vote
In what way am I trying to convince people to vote?
And you also flame :/
And here we have the real reason most of you are voting for me. You confuse "suspicious" with "mean" or "I don't like like him". You have to think what would a mafia do? Is this a mafia play? Or is bandwagoning on to what appears to be a popular town lynch a mafia thing to do?
So yes, a great rationale. It is not, however, yours.
When did you catch on that I quoted you back to yourself? For those not following:
Mutant says:
I would like to reiterate ForTheDr3am's assertion that lynching on day 1 is crucial. First of all, if we hit scum, then we are way ahead of the game, as it is balanced around not killing scum day 1. Secondly, the two biggest sources of info in the game are who votes for who and the discussions that come out of discussing lynching. If we don't lynch day 1, we lose an entire day's worth of crucial information,
And then asks me this question in the same post
Why do you want town to start voting as soon as possible, before any real conversation has happened?
Isn't this more than a bit ridiculous?
Look at the information we're getting out of people's votes! And here we are discussing votes and why we are doing them. It would appear YOU feel you have gotten a lot of information out of this discussion because you believe you have found scum. When I vote and play aggressive it's scum behavior. But when you advocate it it's trying to get information. Could I be the one most aggressively trying to get information?
If you genuinely believed I was scum, why would you be so upset about me making a scum move? Notice AF's humorous but telling remark where he encourages a player he suspects to "keep acting summy". Yet you are enraged that a mafia would act in a mafia way. Is this genuine scum hunting?
##fos: mutant
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
My reads on everyone so far:
insectoceanx
Has barely posted apart from the case against Zealos. Can't get a good read on him yet.
St.Daniel
Posts a weak case against Dream then backs up on it later. His non-committal to anything seems a little suspicious.
Dracolich70
I'm finding the defence of yomi and attack on maju, following yomi and Zealos, fairly suspicious. He's my # 3 scum read behind yomi and Zealos.
MajuGarzett
Hasn't posted much content apart from the case against yomi. Not sure on my read of him yet.
oneplus
Makes a few weak cases against people but never says anything concrete. This seems a bit scummy to me.
nreekay324
Has made good cases against yomi and Zealos. Seems to be wanting to scumhunt which makes me think he is town.
mutant
The only real case he has made so far has been against yomi who is a fairly easy target at the moment. However his case is solid. I have a neutral read on him so far.
ArcticFox
He has been perfectly willing to post his thoughts about other people and make cases against the ones he thinks are scummy. Seems fairly town to me.
Zealos
Early on he complains about people looking like they are contributing while they aren't actually helping. The he proceeds to do just that. Then he makes a half hearted accusation of maju. The point about policy talk isn't important because apart from the one post suggesting it he leaves it be. The attacks against his case against yomi make very little sense to me because the points he brought up about yomi are perfectly valid yet Zealos dismisses them as nonsense. He strikes me as very suspicious but not enough yet to vote for him.
ForTheDr3am
He has posted good cases throughout the day and seems to want to help the town scum hunt. He seems fairly town in my eyes.
yomi
First off this post makes no sense
hey bros. I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do
##vote: majugarzett
This has been mentioned by everyone else and seems to be the main reason for people voting for him. While I agree that it makes no sense I don't think it makes him scummy. Honestly I can't see a reason why scum or town would jump on someone so early. Given just this post I'd put it down to bad play. However the random aggressiveness towards anyone calling him out on it makes me much more suspicious.
The asking everyone to post their previous games is strange. If you actually wanted to read through people's previous games you would just go and do it, especially given that the people in this game will have at most 2 other games. This seems to me to be trying to look like he is contributing.
He then tries to defend his vote for maju and doesn't do very well at it. "Why not" isn't a sufficient answer and I'm not buying the pressure vote excuse. It was such a baseless accusation that maju would never felt any real pressure. Again this feels like someone trying to look like he is contributing while not doing anything of the sort.
The case against Arctic is terrible and the case and vote against me is based entirely on one meta argument and is just a thinly veiled suggestion of a lynch all lurkers policy.
#FoS: Zealos
Vote: yomi
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
EBWOP:
Did that wrong.
##Vote: yomi
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On Dracholich70's accusation
I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such.
I think I may be misunderstanding you here, could you clarify this please?
He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, when it comes to st. Daniel for the weak reason of him asking for help in a newbie game, much like he even did before Daniel, and I am "dumbfounded" as to why he did this.
The only thing I asked for from yomi was for his reasons why he voted for me. I explained why I said what I did about Daniel, did not vote for him, and am now not at all suspicious of him being mafia.
Lastly, that on one hand he offers to Zealos that we should lynch someone, but then uses the exact same reasoning against yomi as suspect. If we should suspect yomi on these things, then it should be more so with Maju. At best Maju is hypocritical.
My case against yomi was that he stated he was unsure of lynching then proceeded to be the first one to vote, and then did not give reasons for his vote. I would have had no problems with his vote if he had given reasons.
Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.". Why would he be fearful 1) as a townie. 2) That yomis near no-reason posts would gain traction?
To the first point, no one wants to die whether they are mafia or townie. Not only would dying be less fun on my part, dying on the first day would result in me losing experience in playing this game. Also, me dying as a townie would just be conducive to mafia victory. On the second point, two of the only people who had posted at that point were accusing me so I didn't want a bandwagon effect to occur. Because of this I pointed out yomi's lack of a substantial accusation as early as possible.
Soon after we find statements such as this: "Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible.", "It is, I just wanted to get clarification on the source of Daniel's statement since it could help tell if dr3am is mafia.", "I just meant he might be mafia or he might be a detective or medic or something."(concerning lurkers, something he doesn't consider is on yomis mind), ": I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier", "Yeah, I realise now that I didn't really think that through."
What was the point of listing my posts if you were'nt going to analyze them.
Actions of mine that you have used to say I am mafia have rightly been interpreted by others as my being an overzealous townie. I would also like to point out that Dracholich did not post any suspicions on me until I mentioned I was slightly suspicious of him and then proceeded to formulate a case against me.
On Zealos' voting for me
He startes by pointlessly discussing policy
Should we lynch lurkers? think we probably should.[/quote]
(Note, he can't even make his mind up 100% about this.
[/quote]
I posted this as I was eager to get started and from looking at other threads it seemed a reasonable way of starting converstion.
Then he stresses the fact he is new:
Though as I haven't played before it may well lead to a poor town atmosphere as you suggested.
[/quote]
This is something mafia do to try to hide their scummy play.
[/quote]
This statement was given in response to you saying that lurker lynches create a bad town atmosphere. I was just showing that I did not want to argue with you as I had no prior experience playing mafia.
Then he makes this attack on yomi that makes very little sense to me
Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched.
[/quote]
Then, as a responce to an accusation, he attacks the very fact that someone accused him, as opposed to arguing the point [/quote]
I did question the fact that he was accusing me but I also question his reasons as to the vote. This was the only thing I could do to argue the point as yomi had given no reasons.
@oneplus: Yes I suppose I was wrong in accusing people of protecting yomi when we do not know yomi's position yet and since your explanation may well be true. I still suspect imallinson though because of his lurking.
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Sorry for messing up the quotes, You might have to read Zealos' post to make sense of it now.
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@zealous
After filtering and reread few times, i am still not convinced that you made a strong case of defending yourself.
instead of mentioning that someone is suspcicious, you instantly use prhases like scum/most scummy to describe a response.
On April 24 2012 20:24 Zealos wrote:Then, as a responce to an accusation, he attacks the very fact that someone accused him, as opposed to arguing the point Show nested quote +Initially claiming you may not want to lynch anybody, then launching seemingly unfounded accusations, then pressuring everyone else to follow you blindly seems pretty scummy to me. This is one of the most Scummy first day's I've seen in my 3 games so far.
It seems like you're trying to try to instantly link the "scum" word into someone, and this is suspicious to me.
##Vote Zealos
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Vote count:
MajuGarzett: 2
yomi
Dracolich70
Zealos
yomi: 5
ArcticFox
ForTheDr3am
mutant
MajuGarzett
imallinson
Zealos: 3
insectoceanx
nreekay324
oneplus
imallinson: 1
yomi
Not voting: 1
St.Daniel
With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch. The day ends at 19:00 PST, or a little over 6 hours from now.
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Hey guys, posting on my lunch break.
@yomi: I'm not enraged.
The crux of your argument seems to be that I was pro-lynch and pro-discussion, while criticizing you for the same thing. No, I'm criticizing you for being inconsistant, and being unable to argue against that inconsistancy.
@Everyone Else: I haven't really wanted to discuss my other lynches yet, as I wanted to get more information from how people have been posting without them knowing what I'm looking for exactly. (I also didn't want to give yomi the opportunity to narrowly squeeze out of a day1 lynch, as he did in his last game.) I won't list out my reads on everyone, but I will offer my comments on the 4 that ArcticFox mentioned:
yomi - I've made my case on him, others have made their case on him. He's been unable to properly answer those cases.
Zealos - Started out by making overly-aggressive posts. His posts are overly negative. He hasn't defended his behaviour. He was going to be my ##FoS, until yomi made his first post. Would support a lynch.
imallinson - Had a pretty good post recently, and he gave clearly defined opinions of the subject of who to lynch. Was kind of thinking lurker-scum, now have basically a null read.
MajuGarrett - Struck me as (new) town when he first posted, and ever since then my read is the same. Is not afraid to take the spotlight, which is characteristic of pro-town play.
Overall, I support a yomi lynch the most, and Maju the least.
And with that I'm back off to work. I'll try to keep an eye on the thread, but I won't be able to post much until I get back home (which yesterday was 6:15 PDT. Stupid busses :/)
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I don't know how you can call allin's post "good". It is definite red. Typical passive, bandwagon, blank post. Tries to fill it with content but the "reads" are just summaries and have no substance. Doesn't want to stick his neck out, doesn't want to make his own case, wants to bandwagon + lurk. mafia love to bandwagon + lurk. He rolled mafia again.
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3.5 hours to deadline and still nobody set to lynch. With the targets we have up for lynch, I'm adamantly opposed to a no-lynch.
St.Daniel -- Still need to hear from you, and need your vote.
(Question for Mods -- if someone doesn't vote, does that mean we only need 6 to lynch? (since it's only 11 voting?) or does it just count as a "no lynch" vote for voting purposes and we'd still need 7?)
I think at this point we can safely narrow it down to yomi or Zealos for lynch candidates tonight.
For those who have a vote that isn't on either yomi or Zealos -- can you be persuaded to vote for one of these targets instead so Day 1 isn't a no-lynch? Or is a no-lynch a better idea in your mind? If so, why?
For those currently voting Zealos -- I know at least a couple of you also have yomi as your second strongest scum read. What would it take to persuade your vote over to yomi?
If we end up with a no-lynch because people are opposed to either yomi or Zealos based on insufficient evidence, that's fine, if questionable (and as mentioned, I'm against it since we have solid targets), but it means that the decision to no-lynch was made. But if we just end up with a no-lynch because people didn't bother to check the thread before the deadline, then we're in serious trouble and making mafia's job incredibly easy.
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ya look how little content we've generated so far. I flamed people for spamming last game because the activity level made me very nervous as mafia. I knew I would have to post a lot. You guys are letting them fit in with the other lurkers easy mode.
As far as not lyching, obviously if we do lynch it's going to be me so that's bad. But in general I'm not sure how certain you have to be for a profitable lynch. The baseline is 3/12 = .25. If we lynch when we are 50% sure:
day 1 you lose town
night 1 lose town
day 2 kill mafia
night 2 lose town
day 3 lose town
night 3 lose town
day 4 kill mafia
night 4 lose town
and now we have 1 mafia vs 3 town players. So you don't have to be THAT sure to lynch. And this is with losing the first 50/50 and no town power role block/heal/vigi etc.
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well that's 6 on me so I'm just about dead. ill post something later but this is a pretty pitiful town, I would bet a lot on mafia right now
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On April 25 2012 07:51 yomi wrote:
ya look how little content we've generated so far. I flamed people for spamming last game because the activity level made me very nervous as mafia. I knew I would have to post a lot. You guys are letting them fit in with the other lurkers easy mode.
If you have suggestions on how to get the town to post more, I'm all ears. I've called out several people by name, but I can't put pressure on all of them at once if they all refuse to post more than 1 or 2 lines once or twice a day. =/ There can't be 6 scum in the game, but that's the level of activity I'm seeing in the filters.
On April 25 2012 07:46 St.Daniel wrote:
##Vote: yomi
The vote is nice, but...do you have anything extra to add to the subject? Any other reads to share with the town since this is the first thing you've said in a day and a half?
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I voted for the biggest lurker and made a (small) case against him
/shrug dont know what else to do
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daniel obv also suspicious with the lurk + bandwagon
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On April 25 2012 08:03 yomi wrote:
I voted for the biggest lurker and made a (small) case against him
/shrug dont know what else to do
So who else can you put a case together against? So far you've spent a day calling Maju a dunce, then another randomly jumping around throwing suspicions toward a bunch of different people as soon as the votes started piling up on you. You started to put together some info on mutant, cobbling together a trumped up case that didn't really say much of anything. You voted imallinson only after I'd already posted about him, which looks like a desperation move from my perspective.
If you do get lynched tonight and flip green, you know we're going to go over the contents and look at what you've said. If you want to make a contribution, now's the time to start.
I'm still convinced you're going to flip red though, as nothing you've said so far has made me believe you're acting in the best interests of town.
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EBWOP -- Your posts have also conveniently never once mentioned Zealos, which is town's #2 scum choice right now. His posts also don't directly address any cases against you. It seems weird to me that the top 2 suspects have nothing to say about each other when they're up for vote.
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2 hours to deadline, nothing to make me want to come off of yomi yet. 1 more vote on yomi seals the lynch.
Dracolich70, Zealos, insectoceanx, nreekay324, oneplus -- Are the 5 of you ok with a no-lynch based on the information we have? It's on one of you to switch your vote to yomi if you want his lynch to go through. Otherwise we get to go through this whole routine again on Day 2.
"Sorry I missed the deadline," won't be an acceptable excuse, either. With ~54 hours played, we have more than enough activity information to really start pressing the lurkers hard on Day 2. Inactivity only hurts the town.
Speaking of -- St.Daniel, I'm still waiting on you to post something more substantial after a day and a half abscence.
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Sorry, I'm being replaced out and I didn't wanted to get modkilled.
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@nreekay and insect
Both of you have had suspcions about yomi previously. Though I suspect Zealos of being scum as well, are either of you willing to change your vote to yomi? I voted yomi as I think that yomi's actions were indicative of mafia play while for Zealos it seemed to be more a lack of opinionated contribution for a good while. In my opinion yomi's mafia like actions were better evidence.
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first thing I realized I attributed a quote to AF that was actually from nreekay.
on zealos:
This is one of the most Scummy first day's I've seen in my 3 games so far.
This I thought was really weird because I, myself, am having a very hard time picking out scum. As I said before, it is just so easy for them to fit in with the lurkers and bandwagoners. I don't know what he thinks is so scummy about the posting, I don't think anyone has posted anything super suspicious.
Then he makes this attack on yomi that makes very little sense to me + Show Spoiler +Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched.
the case against me is pretty stupid because mafia don't play the way I'm playing. BUT this is probably the best statement of it. Notice the lack of the later hyperbole where I am actually correctly quoted "he says he ISN'T SURE" about lynching someone. later attacks all misquote (actually everyone refuses to use real quotes this game derp) me saying I explicitly opposed a lynch. Also I like how it actually connects the dots to a motivation "he's a mafia who wants to get a townie lynched". Others basically don't like me and my aggressive play and equate that with "suspicion" but here it makes some sense. but mafia don't go about getting people lynched this way.
He claims at the end of the post
however, I only said Maju's argument was flawed, no the conclusion.
But he hasn't really explained why it's flawed.
And he says I'm his #2 yet says the case against me is flawed.
@zealos
So if the argument is flawed, what is the correct argument for lynching me?
I think this may be a mafia trying to set themselves up for a 1-2. He knows the lynch on me is pretty much going through no matter what and he wants to be on the good side of it. He wants to make it yomi vs maju. So then when I flip green he can get town to go onto maju, a weak player he knows won't be able to defend himself. This is how I played the last game. I meekly opposed the first lynch to gain town cred just so I could then push through my first day choice.
If he actually defended me that's one thing. The people that have really defended me are pretty much town. No mafia would defend what seems like a sure-lynch. But this way he gets to jump on the obvious next target a bit early without impeding the lynch on me.
Also the introduction is too apologetic. This is typical of TLers to be way overly polite but only mafia really apologize and suck up to town. He's from the UK where people are generally a little more blunt.
while I was writing this daniel quit. I think town are way more likely to quit than mafia.
People voting for me does not equal mafia.
People defending me equals town.
UNLESS they are trying to build town cred by "calling" the lynch correctly, and are targetting on to the next most likely to be lynched players. oneplus is definitely not doing this.
draco is in a lot of ways by making the same play as zealos. he's getting ready to quote himself when I flip town and say see, I told you so, now look at my case against maju in the context of maju vs yomi. but maju vs yomi has never really been a big thing like draco and zealos want to make it out to be. we flamed each other with one liners in the first few pages and it flickered out and is no big deal now.
he wants to quote this tomorrow:
Thirdly when yomi votes for him, he immediately counter-accuses yomi, with this: "Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched."
I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such. He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return,
nreeke also defended me somewhat but I'm not so sure about him and am getting really tired I've been writing this post forever
mutant is a fucking nutjob. watch this guy. I think he's the xatalos of last game, just a super eager emotionally invested towny but read the guy's filter. really intense. very very interested in my lynch. how can a town be so unequivocal right now? I'll excuse it in AF b/c he played the last game w/ me and I am playing this one very similarly and he has a little grudge against me I guess from last game.
the game is a lot harder as town I'll tell you that. but look at who defended me and why. mostly these people are going to be your townies, as the level 1 thinking is that a mafia would want to push through a lynch on a towny asap (mutant). But we can give them credit for being a little more clever than that. Watch for people who are trying to set up for a play off of me flipping town. Remember all the mafia in the game right now know that I am about to flip green and want to position themselves to come out strong tomorrow and build a case around my having flipped green. They pretty much "won" today whenever I got to like 3 or 4 votes it was clear I was going down. Then they would have started to create false dichotomies around me vs x player to build off of tomorrow. I'm heading to the library now, I'm sure I'll look at the thread again but this is prob my last big post.
good luck guys.
you are being way way way way too passive right now. post. a lot more. don't let anyone lurk. make them just post whatever's on their mind. this is SUPER stressful for mafia. mafia have to re-read their posts 10 times before posting and are super super careful about everything. making them have to give an opinion on everything is awful for a mafia. so punish (really punish, not just threaten) the lurkers hard and anyone that won't come out with near-constant lists of their reads on everyone and why. mafia hate hate hate that environment. on the other hand don't let it get super cluttered. just make everyone come out with frequent clear posts. last game you guys really almost had us on day 2. it was super scary how the posting was going. very organized, very clear, very concise. I just managed to discredit xatalos to win it but otherwise you guys had us made, many of the lists had 3 or 4 players picked of which 2 were mafia.
firm, aggressive, but reasoned and frequent posting is mafia's enemy.
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well I was coming off of maju but I just read his post now. I understand you don't like my play but what about it is mafia? A mafia would try to get a townie lynched by coming out like a manic and accusing someone? this is not the play of a mafia I assure you. you will see that later tonight when I flip and then you will realize that mafia like to:
1) lurk
2) defend themselves
3) bandwagon
they DO NOT:
1) stick their neck out
2) play risky
3) create original cases unless there is a dire need for it (see last game me vs xatalos).
maju is really new and is prob just a noob but still you gotta watch him. draco made a pretty great post against the guy
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also if they do create a case they won't stick to it really hard like a townie will because they are afraid of making enemies. mafia like to make friends. townies, especially vanilla townies, play fearlessly. they don't really care too much about being lynched, especially early on.
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so it's
oneplus = town for defending me when a mafia never would
zealos mafia for setting up for tomorrow to hit maju
draco may be trying to do the same thing, I tried to look at the exact sequence of events but im getting tired now. his defense of me was pretty genuine
and mutant suspicious because he is a manic and tunneling really hard and shutting down discussion of anything but me. but I don't think mafia play quite this aggro.
af is prob town, but I dunno I think he is a pretty good player who could hide it really well and try to play this town leader mafia style. that's really risky though I don't think beginners do that.
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I have many things to say about that long post. I'll address some now and some after the lynch.
That quote *was* originally mine btw. It keeps getting credited to nreekay and I don't appreciate it. >.>
On April 25 2012 10:07 yomi wrote:
you are being way way way way too passive right now. post. a lot more. don't let anyone lurk. make them just post whatever's on their mind. this is SUPER stressful for mafia. mafia have to re-read their posts 10 times before posting and are super super careful about everything. making them have to give an opinion on everything is awful for a mafia. so punish (really punish, not just threaten) the lurkers hard and anyone that won't come out with near-constant lists of their reads on everyone and why. mafia hate hate hate that environment. on the other hand don't let it get super cluttered. just make everyone come out with frequent clear posts. last game you guys really almost had us on day 2. it was super scary how the posting was going. very organized, very clear, very concise. I just managed to discredit xatalos to win it but otherwise you guys had us made, many of the lists had 3 or 4 players picked of which 2 were mafia.
firm, aggressive, but reasoned and frequent posting is mafia's enemy.
Really good advice that I don't want to go unnoticed. Our last game had over twice the amount of posting by this time, and it's hard to scumhunt when half the thread is inactive.
On April 25 2012 10:07 yomi wrote:
I'll excuse it in AF b/c he played the last game w/ me and I am playing this one very similarly and he has a little grudge against me I guess from last game.
No grudge, but the pattern is eerily similar. My primary point was that, yes, it was similar to your scum posting, but more importantly, a town has no reason to act that way. If all your posts were as useful and reasoned as these past few, nobody would even be thinking of lynching you.
The problem I have is now you've already acted this way, and now *this* is an inconsistency.
I'm curious to see how this turns out now. 35 minutes to lynch. If you survive, I wouldn't be surprised, but I would need an effort much more like these past few posts before I started trusting you as town.
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Let's hear some more from the lurkers in the thread on the next day. I guess we shall see if yomi is town or not.
## unvote
## vote yomi
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On April 25 2012 10:38 insectoceanx wrote:
Let's hear some more from the lurkers in the thread on the next day. I guess we shall see if yomi is town or not.
You're one of the lurkers, you know. Is this all you have to say about it?
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yomi, I've just re-read your filter for about the 30th time today. Gah. I have the same problem with you that I had with willz in the last game -- I just can't see a townie acting like that for so long, but then you act like this for the last few posts and make me go "wtf?" in my head. If that was your way of establishing town cred for the first 40~ hours, calling people stupid and antagonizing everyone, it was an awful way to go about it. =/
I guess we'll know for sure in a few minutes. I'm going to be extremely disappointed in your play if you flip green.
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I think that kills me right? 7 total
you are the only other active player lol so it's up to you to no-lynch. no other target is possible obv. this thread is too passive to do any last minute shenanigans like we did last game. maybe that will be a good thing in the future who knows.
not much I can say to convince you, you were the player I thought would FOR SURE vote me if I played this way but I thought I could prob survive it and come out with a lot of good info based on how people reacted to a real "event" instead of how day 1 is, normally where people talk about talking about things. my plan was:
get people to post if they had played a game before or not. I am genuinely too lazy to search everyone and see what games they played, I'm not even sure how to do this. filter by subforum I guess?
If they HAD played a game and also were suspicious of me, that would put them on my suspicious list because an experienced player would know that mafia don't play how I'm playing now. Except for me last game. But last game I was always thinking "what would I do if I was town". And I thought hey, if I'm town, I come out here swinging and get in a fight and see what happens. That will get something real going.
Then do what I was just doing in my last post, see who miraculously "knew" I was going to flip town. The way I, in a panic last game, made some vague allusion to not lynching willz on day 1 because I thought it would build town cred.
So that was my amazing plan and I still think it will work as you guys will now be able to read back and see how it all played out. who defended, lurked, and bandwagoned.
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maybe you can see the turnaround AF when I back off maju? It's not 40 hours of me acting crazy. It's like 24 at most, and I never really go at maju. Read it in that context you will see it is a trap for mafia.
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Night 1:
The assassinations were to be kept secret, while trusted deputies and undersecretaries quietly scrambled over the weekend to reallocate duties and fill empty posts. No one had been permitted to leave the building, and no one had been permitted to enter the eighth floor.
In a large, well-furnished conference room, twelve men drank their tea. They knew that the traitors stood among them, and beyond that, they still had a country to run. Some stayed quiet, while others made grand accusations in rising tones, levelling charges of treason and murder against former colleagues.
One of those was yomi, an acerbic fellow with deep ambitions and a dwindling power base. "I know it's you!" he pointed at the man to his left, "With the support of the Western imperialists and counterrevolutionary elements within the Party, you are to blame! I'm not sure if we should have you executed, but if we did, then we should have you executed!"
The man shrugged, and several others frowned. They soon decided that in fact, yomi was the most suspicious of those present. The Minister of Security nodded solemnly, and yomi was dragged out of the room, kicking and screaming his innocence, ranting about a vast rightist conspiracy whose members would surely go on to kill them all.
Half an hour later, the phone rang. The men hesitated to answer, until one inventive soul put the caller on speaker-phone. "He was telling the truth." the Minister of Security reported. "It is a pity that he is dead."
The Vice President sighed deeply, and a few others cursed. "We'll recess for the night," he announced. "I want better results tomorrow."
yomi, Vanilla Town, has been lynched!
Please PM your night actions to both me and GMarshal. Day 2 will begin in 24 hours, at 19:00 PDT on April 25, 2012.
Gossemerr is replacing St.Daniel.
Final Vote Count:
MajuGarzett: 2
yomi
Dracolich70
Zealos
yomi: 7
ArcticFox
ForTheDr3am
mutant
MajuGarzett
imallinson
St.Daniel
insectoceanx
Zealos: 3
insectoceanx
nreekay324
oneplus
imallinson: 1
yomi
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gg lol
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LOL btw great post midnight
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@ yomi- "mafia play to survive, town plays to win" right?
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*sigh* gg As promised, I'm extremely disappointed in your Day 1. I see your thought process, but it's too antagonistic to get people to trust you.
Unfortunately, the result of that is that we've lost an extremely active townie, in a game where most people are lurking like it's the Brood War.
Going mostly silent for the Night. I'll post something close to the deadline, in case I'm shot.
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On April 25 2012 11:03 nreekay324 wrote:
@ yomi- "mafia play to survive, town plays to win" right?
Speaking of lurkers....why the hell were you silent until just now?
I will be coming after all the lurkers on Day 2. Be ready.
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That is all I have to say about changing my vote to yomi, I think zealos is the greatest chance of being scum at this point but yomi is close behind and I changed my vote to him for the sake of getting a lynch.
While I have not posted often, what I have posted is a collection of my thoughts from everything going on. These thoughts have not been one liners or contentless.
imallinson does make me a little suspicous with his last post being a little recap of what everyone else has discussed without adding anything of substance, he then votes for yomi, which i don't know if he is just jumping on the bandwagon at the end or not.
I agree with imallinson's assement that fox is not scum.
I am unsure of everyone else besides that zealos seems really scummy.
Maju is hard to read as most of what he said is in defence to yomi's erratic voting towards him.
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I just woke up, it's 10 AM here. I wanted to check the deadline to see what happened so I could think about it when I had time during the day.
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Damn, sorry yomi.
This changes some of my suspicions. I am less suspicious of Zealos now as if he was mafia he would have probably had voted yomi to ensure the lynch. Instead he left the possibility that the lynch would not occur. If he's mafia, voting for me would have been a wasted vote.
I agree with insect on imallinson as allin only voted when it seemed there was a high chance of yomi getting lynched as 4 votes had already been cast for yomi. He's now my leading candidate for mafia.
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On April 25 2012 02:09 ForTheDr3am wrote:
@Dracolich70
Since you apparently like highlights so much, I will try to summarize our conversation to you. After your first post, I call out to you claiming that it is empty, and that town needs not be afraid of vivid accusations. I thought you would respond either by posting analysis of other players, with an actual case against me or with the newbie card. Instead, you actually answer by insisting that your post was fine. I do clarify about why "highlight" lists are pointless/scummy while asking a few more questions about your stance as well as for analysis. Your response is yet another defensive one absolutely insisting that your first post was fine, while evading all questions and trying to fling a bit more mud at me. A few quotes which I want to point out:
Going for a third on an opening post? I didn't find it productive to write analysis on you or any of you, especially since some of you had already started, without half the players present in a thread few hours old. I had written an analysis on the little you had written, but I found it counter-productive, when some had already taken the "scum-hunt"-cap on. 12 scumhunters makes it easy for Mafia to hide in the "I said, you said. I find you scummy". For the most part I have spent time trying to explain an opening post to you.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:The list was trying to draw a picture of how I feel the events thus far. Which is either guided by paranoia, or as a initiator for debate(?). I am not sure if this is the right way, as it can clutter the thread mightily quickly.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:The highlights are pretty accurate, I believe. Highlights don't muddy threads, but clearify. I bet mafia likes obfuscation, what do you think?
Inconsistency speaks for itself, and for me that shows that you did not want to "clearify" anything but rather struggled to find an explanation for writing it afterwards. To respond to your question, yes, mafia does like obfuscation. However, what mafia likes even more is an inactive thread where they barely ever have to defend themselves and everybody basically only lurks. They especially like a town that is afraid of making accusations, something that you still propose. Where is the in-consistency? I cannot find it it isn't so just because you say it.
Mafia likes either no- activity or mass-activity that clutters the thread and confuses people. I liked for people to take a step back. I wasn't talking in black( or white; meaning no analysis should be made, but people easing off a bit. Furthermore it contained topics I found odd, ie "Dunce is valid for targeting".
You didn't ask me to clarify the highlights, you didn't show any care for them, but you all about it was scummy, useless and empty, whether it being fear of manipulation or obfuscation. The fault is not mine, but someone like you that has used three posts without asking the questions you apparently had, but you spent more time telling most people that you think their posts are empty and scummy, simply because you say so, and makes me wonder if this is really about something entirely different, like you thinking I was belittling your playstyle. I don't know - yet. Maybe you are a person who thinks that what you do it the right thing for all, and how you see it the same. Maybe you are just a scum trying to divert attention away from you.
"Certainly, the fear of the thread going down in confusion from having too many people making too many accusations is a valid one. if that was actually happening.". I don't know if you are a megalomaniac or what.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +When you say manipulate, who will manipulate what? The mafia the general flow of the thread? Other people? Yes, scum will sometimes try to control the thread and always try to appear as town. Saying that is just as empty as your list. Do you just post to post? Town/"town" can play in a lot of different ways, as can mafia. I hope you realize the dynamism of people having played before. If you find it empty, then so be it. I think of it making people aware, especially when people accused, then got counter-accused. Right now you are trying to dictate how I should play. I am not in the know of what people know, as this is labeled newbie game.
Rather than clarify what exactly you are afraid of, you throw together another bunch of sentences that look like an answer. You still haven't said what it is exactly you are afraid of due to what I assume is meta-play. I don't even know what "I hope you realize the dynamism of people having played before." is supposed to mean. You claim you are making people aware - of what? That accusations are bad? Why would scumhunting be bad? Which is something I asked you already and you refused to answer. I was answering your questions, or were trying to clarify that you are totally unable to comprehend the most simple things. Maybe you should read your own posts once again. You should be happy I gave them the time of day, since your questions were meaningless, and only added to cluttering up the thread with nothing of use.
a: I was afraid that accusing left and right would clutter up the thread; obfuscation It has been answered.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +Certainly, the fear of the thread going down in confusion from having too many people making too many accusations is a valid one - if that was actually happening. However, it isn't, and you preemptively tried to discourage people from making advances at a time where not too much has happened yet in first place. How, in your eyes, should town be productive at all if not by analyzing posts? If everybody posted like you did, we would have no suspects at the end of the day, no information to build on later. Why do you still refuse to put forth any sort of opinion apart from unsubtly hinting that I am cluttering up the thread? Can you make up your mind? If I pointed out this is what has transpired, and it is valid, then my posting is valid. I was the first to say it. If people have jumped onto the right track, then I have been of more use than you have thus far with your guns blazing at shadows. So far I have spent most time explaining a post that is pretty self explanatory in the first place - twice now. I have already given a name and accepted d1 lynch. I can still change it.
You do two things here. Firstly, you completely misunderstood (be it by purpose or owing to my overly creative writing style) my post. I said being afraid of confusion resulting in too many people pointing fingers is alright if that was happening (hypothetical scenario). At that point it wasn't happening and I read your post as an unnecessarily angstly one. Secondly, you claim you are the first one to point that out, but in your next post And there we differ in our styles(amongst many other things). No one holds you back from doing what you are doing, nor anyone else. I spoke of my fears. You immediately told me that it was empty, and scummy. And I explained why it wasn't. You just refuse to listen, or at least try to comprehend.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:I am conflicted on yomi. On one hand he offers some of the same fears that I have with not giving away too much information, when it comes to roles, but more importantly it was this that caught my immediate attention on him: " it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.", which is something I myself have tried to avoid, and thought was happening right off the bat.
you basically say that he said that first, assuming that the fear of too many accusations and of maniac townies is the same. You still did not answer how you think town should catch scum, if not by accusation and analyzing. Yes, it is the same things. But finally a good question.
When I say it "that caught my immediate attention..." it was from my in-depth analysis perspective, which I have done in the second half of the day. What caught my immediate attention with Yomi from a non-analysis perspective was him thinking that being a dunce was alright for targeting, second was he was both unhelpful, and not 100% sold on lynches. When I said I was the first, I thought I was, since you were on me for saying it, and calling it empty. If he said it first, then we are just two who were afraid of the same things, which I found out, when reading/analyzing in-depth.
Next, you finally deign yourself to make an analysis, with your prime suspect being Maju (despite only mentioning yomi in an earlier post while Maju had already made basically all the relevant posts you build your case on). The information is there. This is how I sometimes work. I observe, then make in-depth analysis. Yes, most of the information was already there, but I want to wait it out to see which one I pin-point as most likely, with all the information that lies, when I have to vote. To me most of you are scummy for one way or another. But we only need three, not 9, 12, or whatever.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such. He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, when it comes to st. Daniel for the weak reason of him asking for help in a newbie game, much like he even did before Daniel, and I am "dumbfounded" as to why he did this. Lastly, that on one hand he offers to Zealos that we should lynch someone, but then uses the exact same reasoning against yomi as suspect. If we should suspect yomi on these things, then it should be more so with Maju. At best Maju is hypocritical.
Firstly, wanting an consensus on lynch all lurkers is a few lightyears different from yomi "offering a consensus" by putting an unfounded vote into the room. He is asking yomi to at least give reasons (or anything more than half-flame oneliners) for the vote without giving reasons himself - because he wasn't the one randomly voting. When it comes to St.Daniel, I do agree that it was a questionable post, but what sort of reason would he need to give if the reason why he thought that St.Daniel might be suspicious is that he needed help that early in the game? You say that he is hypocritical for agreeing with the general fact that somebody should be lynched on day 1 while pointing out that yomi is putting an unfounded vote on him, making it more likely that someone is lynched - in the context that yomi said that he wasn't sure whether a day 1 lynch is good himself. Where is the issue? Maju talks about a consensus how we should do things, which includes d1 lynch, lynching lurkers, etc - all that can be agreed upon. When yomi says, "I'm not 100% convinced that we should lynch day1. but if we do". He is referring to this consensus. Maju not only objects to being targeted, but also: " He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has."
Concerning St. Daniel, yomi and Maju, I think i have pointed it out it my analysis. Maju finds yomi suspicious for something he himself did before yomi. a) "I agree that we should lynch someone", b) and then he targets St. Daniel for the same reason, "asking for help", something he did before St. Daniel; weak reason, just like being dunce.
Why are you trying to defend Maju? And so weakly? If you don't find Maju suspicious then don't vote for him. I do, and therefore I put him on top, and I gave reasons that are all documented, not made up.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:Maybe the best answers can be found here: "Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.". Why would he be fearful 1) as a townie. 2) That yomis near no-reason posts would gain traction?
2) Yomi.
Let's play the "ask yourself that question" game. Why are/were you, too, fearful of accusations in general (while the thread is/was too inactive) and spent two posts being defensive by the means of insisting that your first post was fine? Justifying yourself is fairly natural even for a townie when being pressured (especially with a vote), but why would you use that as a case against Maju when you are doing that yourself? (While also saying that he is hypocritical.) I am not fearful for myself, but for Mafia to win. I don't think the thread was inactive. On the contrary, half the players had yet to show up, and some were already playing the Scumhunting game right off the bat.
Your case against yomi isn't really a case, you agree with him on one fact, then say he is of little use while saying yourself before that ? I know my case against yomi wasn't as in-depth as with Maju, simply because the most relevant thing is my vote. Yomi was my first suspect, as said earlier, but after doing an in-depth analysis, I thought Maju was on top. I am not static. You seem to be.
Yomi doesn't really answer questions and doesn't try to hide it, nor willingness to alter it. My case against yomi should be relatively clear. I empathize with his stances; not trying to give scum too much, hope to avoid crazed out scumhunters, whom like all of us are suspicious, but fearful that it clutters the thread and give mafia a good place to blend in, making it harder to find scum, and since some had already started, it "forced" at least me to not do it.. These are the only things I agree with him on.
On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:If people have jumped onto the right track, then I have been of more use than you have thus far with your guns blazing at shadows.
the pointing out what you agreed with him on is at least potentially useful. Yeah, but the deficits are not useful, and they carry the most. And apparently not only to me.
To me, all that reeks of inconsistency and scumminess. However, I am aware of the fact that I might be suffering from tunnel vision or confirmation bias, so I'd like to hear other people's response to this for now. It's always something that you realize tunnel vision can be involved. At least there were a few good questions in there in the end.
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Hi everyone. I will get caught up to speed and be posting tomorrow. I did read a little bit though, and just want to comment on this:
On April 25 2012 11:03 ArcticFox wrote:*sigh* gg As promised, I'm extremely disappointed in your Day 1. I see your thought process, but it's too antagonistic to get people to trust you. Unfortunately, the result of that is that we've lost an extremely active townie, in a game where most people are lurking like it's the Brood War. Going mostly silent for the Night. I'll post something close to the deadline, in case I'm shot.
Please don't do this. Post as much as you can. We need to be active if we want to make an accurate assessment on people's alignments. NOBODY should be worried about dying or saying anything that might get them killed. An active town discussion is what we need. Not posting allows the scum to just sit around without having to contribute.
So, lets get the discussion's, analyses, and POST-based cases going starting this night.
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On April 25 2012 04:15 MajuGarzett wrote:On Dracholich70's accusation Show nested quote +
I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such.
You being confused as to why he both talks about "not 100% sold on lynch", but adds "in case this is the consensus then I vote for Maju". You: " He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has". Show nested quote +He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, when it comes to st. Daniel for the weak reason of him asking for help in a newbie game, much like he even did before Daniel, and I am "dumbfounded" as to why he did this. The only thing I asked for from yomi was for his reasons why he voted for me. I explained why I said what I did about Daniel, did not vote for him, and am now not at all suspicious of him being mafia. He did, "I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie."; . You both gave weak reasons. Yours even weaker, because you target St. Daniel for the reasons of asking for help. Something you yourself did before him. You project your own actions onto others who do what you do, and call them suspicious, hence you would find yourself very suspicious. I do too.
[quote]Lastly, that on one hand he offers to Zealos that we should lynch someone, but then uses the exact same reasoning against yomi as suspect. If we should suspect yomi on these things, then it should be more so with Maju. At best Maju is hypocritical.
[quote]My case against yomi was that he stated he was unsure of lynching then proceeded to be the first one to vote, and then did not give reasons for his vote. I would have had no problems with his vote if he had given reasons.
[quote]Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.". Why would he be fearful 1) as a townie. 2) That yomis near no-reason posts would gain traction?
[/quote]
[quote]To the first point, no one wants to die whether they are mafia or townie. Not only would dying be less fun on my part, dying on the first day would result in me losing experience in playing this game. Also, me dying as a townie would just be conducive to mafia victory. On the second point, two of the only people who had posted at that point were accusing me so I didn't want a bandwagon effect to occur. Because of this I pointed out yomi's lack of a substantial accusation as early as possible.[/quote]1)Mafia plays for survival, town plays for doing their part for as long as they can. You being afraid of your own survival, speaks volumes of you being a scum. Of course no one wants to die right of the bat, but being fearful of it, is another thing entirely. You even identify it as mafia play, when cornered, but try to add, but I am not doing it because I am mafia.
2) First off it is pretty funny considering, you were first to play the suspicious card of anyone, and on St. Daniel, and only giving the reason for not doing the Vote: St. Daniel, was due to it being a newbie game: "The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia.". There are two possibilities here: You really want to vote for St. Daniel because he either has a townie role, or you suspect him of being mafia for wanting help, without having shown anything mafia-like. Second reason is mumbo-jumbo. First reason is the mafia in you talking. Freudian slip? Anywhich way, it is pretty weak.
Secondly, apparently you showed no fear for St. Daniels life, when you were willing to throw him in front of a bus, and with you not having faith in other peoples judgments, on behalf of weak reasons(at least so soon), it seems like you hoped people would jump onto St. Daniel.
[quote]Soon after we find statements such as this: "Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible.", "It is, I just wanted to get clarification on the source of Daniel's statement since it could help tell if dr3am is mafia.", "I just meant he might be mafia or he might be a detective or medic or something."(concerning lurkers, something he doesn't consider is on yomis mind), ": I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier", "Yeah, I realise now that I didn't really think that through."
[/quote]
What was the point of listing my posts if you were'nt going to analyze them.[/quote]Yeah, you are right, I should have analyzed those as well. I was stupid in thinking they were self-explanatory. Here goes.
1. This is exactly what you did, when trying to throw St. Daniel in front of the bus, without most people having appeared in the thread. You even wanted lynch d1.
2. You don't trust a new players statements, hence not trusting your own, unless they can back it up with knowledge of the game from someone, then you do. Basically you are saying we shouldn't trust you.
3. You are giving away that you want to know if St. Daniel has a bluerole or not.
4-5. Is you trying to do damage control, realizing you have slipped up.
[quote]Actions of mine that you have used to say I am mafia have rightly been interpreted by others as my being an overzealous townie. I would also like to point out that Dracholich did not post any suspicions on me until I mentioned I was slightly suspicious of him and then proceeded to formulate a case against me.[/quote]I didn't really post anything on anyone, until it was time to do so.
I haven't made this up, you have said these things. I bet you are happy they think you are merely an overzealous townie, for your slip-ups. Well, I don't. And I think I have given very good reasons. If people want to use it or not, is up to them. I have done my part in explaining my vote.
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yomi flipped town, confirming his claim that he was making a play to get real discussion going.
yomi had only the minimum 7/7 votes to be lynched, however. By acting crazy in the beginning, yomi singled himself out; as my first theory of Maju getting thrown under the bus is wrong (maybe), it seems more likely yomi was to be that easy target to get bussed.
Some notes on yomi votes, may be more useful later in the game then now;
+ Show Spoiler +0-1 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
This seems highly unlikely. As a townie gaining so much suspicion early on, the mafia probably put him on their agenda and wanted to push us to mislynch him. Because of yomi’s early suspicion, early votes AGAINST him seem less suspicious as well. According to Midnight’s prelim vote count, some 6 hours before deadline, only 5 people had their vote on yomi, and not until somewhat close to the end 2 votes changed. As I previously mentioned, early votes against yomi would be less prone to suspicion, especially because there was a (so-so) case on him early on.
2-3 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
Seems extremely likely. The duration of yomi’s erratic play, probably a little over a day, would surely be long enough for two scum to make a case against him, and vote so. (or one make a case and another simply cite their support of someone else’s). The majority of the mafia would need to vote for yomi as he had the minimum 7/7. And with enough town support, it would be favorable to have someone NOT voting yomi, as a safety-card for when yomi flips green (2 votes). There is then always the consideration all 3 mafia voted for yomi, but it would be unfavorable to tunnel vision the votes.
WIFOM? + Show Spoiler + (Am i using WIFOM right?) As I was looking at the votes and writing this, I wanted to look at 0, 1, 2, 3, votes individually. But I realized this would be circular logic because I’d be making too many assumptions about the mafia’s agenda. However, I am convinced that the mafia worked to get yomi mis-lynched because yomi did so much of the mafia’s work for them. So some of my reads come from this likely motive.
That lead me to here....
some of my reads, and my reasoning
1. ArcticFox
+ Show Spoiler + First to vote yomi, but only after yomi has had enough time to make a case against himself. Also, he pressures everyone to vote yomi as the deadline approaches, insisting yomi’s play has been too scummy, and not acting erratically. Also, looking at his filter, I notice that AF posts are 1)plentiful, 2)insistent on good town discussion 3)provide pressure to lurkers 4)continously PRESSURES lurkers. And then this post + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 10:26 ArcticFox wrote:That quote *was* originally mine btw. It keeps getting credited to nreekay and I don't appreciate it. >.> Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 10:07 yomi wrote:
you are being way way way way too passive right now. post. a lot more. don't let anyone lurk. make them just post whatever's on their mind. this is SUPER stressful for mafia. mafia have to re-read their posts 10 times before posting and are super super careful about everything. making them have to give an opinion on everything is awful for a mafia. so punish (really punish, not just threaten) the lurkers hard and anyone that won't come out with near-constant lists of their reads on everyone and why. mafia hate hate hate that environment. on the other hand don't let it get super cluttered. just make everyone come out with frequent clear posts. last game you guys really almost had us on day 2. it was super scary how the posting was going. very organized, very clear, very concise. I just managed to discredit xatalos to win it but otherwise you guys had us made, many of the lists had 3 or 4 players picked of which 2 were mafia.
firm, aggressive, but reasoned and frequent posting is mafia's enemy. Really good advice that I don't want to go unnoticed. Our last game had over twice the amount of posting by this time, and it's hard to scumhunt when half the thread is inactive. He insists on being a strong pro-town voice and contributing to good town environment. strikes me as TOWN.
Insectoceanx
+ Show Spoiler +I originally read insectoceanx as probably town, but this was mostly because he had the same read on Zealos as me, that Zealos is scum. However, insectoceanx then is the final vote on a vote change to get yomi lynched. This wasn’t the suspicious part, as I woke up a little before the deadline to scope out the yomi vote count. Insectoceanx could honestly have wanted to see what yomi flipped, as yomi’s ending play wasn’t really enough to redeem him ( and people weren’t around to discuss this, myself included). But then he posts this; + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 11:07 insectoceanx wrote:
That is all I have to say about changing my vote to yomi, I think zealos is the greatest chance of being scum at this point but yomi is close behind and I changed my vote to him for the sake of getting a lynch.
While I have not posted often, what I have posted is a collection of my thoughts from everything going on. These thoughts have not been one liners or contentless.
imallinson does make me a little suspicous with his last post being a little recap of what everyone else has discussed without adding anything of substance, he then votes for yomi, which i don't know if he is just jumping on the bandwagon at the end or not.
I agree with imallinson's assement that fox is not scum.
I am unsure of everyone else besides that zealos seems really scummy.
Maju is hard to read as most of what he said is in defence to yomi's erratic voting towards him. This came shortly after Night 1 began. Over half this post is insectoceanx defending himself, (Not sure of the grammar of 1st clause), trying to divert suspicion onto imallinson / zealos. I can’t analyze it much further, but this post seemed overly anxious in defending himself. SUSPICIOUS
Imallinson
+ Show Spoiler + Bandwagon’d yomi, few posts.SUSPICIOUS
Oneplus
+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 16:09 oneplus wrote:
@Maju, Nreekay got the same read as me on Yomi which he’s an idiotic towny playing scummy. We are not protecting him, we want to bring out the fact that this is a possibility on his play. We should think out of the box and evaluating all the possibility, it is too early to make comfirmation that "Yomi is a scum" yet in my point of view. I just want everyone to think twice before yomi.
Maju, suspecting someone who is not defending you is not a good town play. He was the main, only supporter of yomi. Whether or not this was a scum “oh I called it, I must be town” play, I’m not sure. But I do know that in the above quote, he includes me in his read of yomi as an idiotic towny playing scummy. But he seemed much, much more sure than I was (I mainly thought Zealos was safer lynch) I don’t see any reason for mafia to single themselves out this much, especially before yomi started revealing his accusation play. strikes me as TOWN.
Zealos
+ Show Spoiler +I had originally thought scum, 100%. Now I think he may have been caught up in yomi’s play. Zealos didn’t set Maju up for yomi to accuse. It seems, now, rather Zealos got swept into the play. And the more he got accused, the more cynical he got. But Zealos has neither come up with a defense nor indirectly done so by contributing. As yomi pointed out (RIP), Zealos has still been setting up Maju. I’m at 75% right now, so for now FOS
List
FOS
1. Zealos
2. Insectoceanx
3. Imallinson
Better be town
1. ArcticFox
2. oneplus
+ Show Spoiler + If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. + Show Spoiler + If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face
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There we go,
Our lovely townie yomi is dead and he did come out to prove his innocent in the few hours before the deadline, this is very sad for me as no one has come out and change his mind about voting on yomi. I guess among the 7 who has voted for yomi we will have 2 scum and the rest of 4 who didnt go for yomi we have 1 scum inside because I don't think 3 of them will be targeting yomi together this is abit too risky for the scum. Also there is a possibility of 1 among the 7 and 2 among the 4 which is less lightly to happen.
Lets have a summarize for 7 of them who voted for yomi:
insectoceanx -
He is the one who made this lynched successful as he change his vote from Zealos to yomi in the last 20 minutes because "he want to see yomi is town or not" This change in the last minute make him look so scummy and suspicious. But if he is red, he already knew that yomi will flip green soon yet he is still doing it which is a very risky play from the mafia. Yes this is risky but not impossible so he is still in the scum list.
Hold on, he is coming out to make an explanation of himself right after 7 mins the lynched is happened which he think zealos is still the most suspicious one. This is not convincing at all because you are trying to point finger at the no.2 scum list after the no.1 scumlist has lynched. Also, he is your previous vote. He did say that immalinson is abit suspicious and Maju is hard to read without much elaboration. So what is his purpose of this? Hopefully make someone got target next before him?
On April 25 2012 10:38 insectoceanx wrote:
Let's hear some more from the lurkers in the thread on the next day. I guess we shall see if yomi is town or not.
## unvote
## vote yomi
MajuGarzett -
He got chosen by Yomi randomly in the beginning which I think is kinda bad luck for him because we don't have a good reason for this. Now yomi is out and i had reread maju filter for a few times. Maju has been playing defensively as he is keep asking yomi what is the reason behind of voting him, most of his posts are reply to yomi or replying to those who are questioning him, if you guys realise he hasn't really contribute much yet other than defensive himself. He is trying to narrow down his conversation to a few people which look a bit scummy because as a scum you don't want to expose too much about yourself and you want to make fren with the town. Maju is trying to convince nreekay and insect to change their vote on yomi in an hour before the deadline.
On April 25 2012 09:45 MajuGarzett wrote:
@nreekay and insect
Both of you have had suspcions about yomi previously. Though I suspect Zealos of being scum as well, are either of you willing to change your vote to yomi? I voted yomi as I think that yomi's actions were indicative of mafia play while for Zealos it seemed to be more a lack of opinionated contribution for a good while. In my opinion yomi's mafia like actions were better evidence.
18 minutes after the lynched, he is the second one after insectoceanx who come out and apologize to yomi as he flipped green. And he has less suspicious on Zealos now which is the opposite of insectoceanx who feel zealos is still the most suspicous one. Immallinson is now his top candidates for mafia.
Mutant-
Well he voted for yomi because he think that yomi is pointless one-liner which i kinda agree until the last few hours before the deadline where yomi has started to contribute. Hence I don't see a strong reason for Mutant to vote yomi yet. Mutant has stated he haven't really wanted to discuss his other lynches yet and he won't list out his reads on everyone. I think it's time for you to voice up.
On April 24 2012 02:06 mutant wrote:
It's pretty much nothing but pointless one-liners.
And please, don't answer my questions with more one-liners.
##Vote: yomi
Immalinson-
He has only 2 posts so far and his 2nd has posted pretty late. His act is kind of following the trend which put yomi as top candidates and zealos for second which could not give us a good read about him. The main reason of voting yomi is the random aggressiveness of yomi towards anyone calling him out on it makes him much more suspicious. Also, the asking of everyone to post their previous game make immalinson feel strange and thinking that yomi is trying to act he is contributing but actually not, I have to agree with this. As you agreed yomi is not scummy yet you still go for him because he is a bad town play ?
On April 25 2012 04:01 imallinson wrote:
This has been mentioned by everyone else and seems to be the main reason for people voting for him. While I agree that it makes no sense I don't think it makes him scummy. Honestly I can't see a reason why scum or town would jump on someone so early. Given just this post I'd put it down to bad play. However the random aggressiveness towards anyone calling him out on it makes me much more suspicious.
Bear in mind Immalinson did bring out he and yomi are both scummate in the previous game. Also he think that I am abit scummy because i didnt say anything concrete.
On April 23 2012 19:09 imallinson wrote:
I'm not sure what to think of Yomi at the moment. He is posting in the same erratic way as last game, where we were both scum
St.Daniel-
He has some arguement with dream but he don't think dream is a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. And lastly he voted for yomi. Looks like a lurker but I think he is too busy to post over here so nothing much to say about him since he has replaced by Gossemer.
ArcticFox-
A town read for me so far, as he is one of them who contributed the most so far. Also he is asking everyone to create a notepad file which will be useful for everyone. He is very active during the deadline and eager to persuade someone who are willing change their vote so a lynched will occur, it seem like he doesn't matter is Zealos or Yomi. Well i couldn't be disagree on this because he want to move a further step after lynching someone we will have more to discuss. His main reason on voting yomi it's WIFOM. ArcticFox do suspect both zealos and yomi because they don't suspect each others while they are on top of the list but now yomi has flipped green so what do you think about zealos? The only thing i feel abit suspicious about ArcticFox is he is too active at the deadline which could be either way. As a town he don't want a mislynch to happen. As a scum he want to lynch some townie instead of no-lynch.
ForTheDr3am-
Also a town read for me, his conversation is mainly with Dracolich70 where dream wants to emphazise that highlighting is scummy / pointless which I am agree with. And it make like you are contributing but actually not. Also dream couldn't get a satisfied answer from draco. Basically there are some useful statement and creative writing in both of their conversation.
The reason dream go for yomi is that he think that randomly voting from someone without proper explanation don't help anyone and it will offer mafia a free bandwagon which has already happened in yomi lynch.
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repost due to failquoting on other page, as it was near impossible to decipher.
On April 25 2012 04:15 MajuGarzett wrote:
On Dracholich70's accusation
I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such.
I think I may be misunderstanding you here, could you clarify this please?
You being confused as to why he both talks about "not 100% sold on lynch", but adds "in case this is the consensus then I vote for Maju". You: " He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has".
He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, when it comes to st. Daniel for the weak reason of him asking for help in a newbie game, much like he even did before Daniel, and I am "dumbfounded" as to why he did this.
The only thing I asked for from yomi was for his reasons why he voted for me. I explained why I said what I did about Daniel, did not vote for him, and am now not at all suspicious of him being mafia.[
He did, "I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie."; . You both gave weak reasons. Yours even weaker, because you target St. Daniel for the reasons of asking for help. Something you yourself did before him. You project your own actions onto others who do what you do, and call them suspicious, hence you would find yourself very suspicious. I do too.
Lastly, that on one hand he offers to Zealos that we should lynch someone, but then uses the exact same reasoning against yomi as suspect. If we should suspect yomi on these things, then it should be more so with Maju. At best Maju is hypocritical.
My case against yomi was that he stated he was unsure of lynching then proceeded to be the first one to vote, and then did not give reasons for his vote. I would have had no problems with his vote if he had given reasons.
He did give reasons. You just called him suspicious before he had a chance to give reasons. You yourself would have voted: St. Daniel, if it wasn't a newbie game. He also stated that: if the consensus is/was d1 lynch, then I would pick you for now(then). So in case it became consensus then he had done so.
Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.". Why would he be fearful 1) as a townie. 2) That yomis near no-reason posts would gain traction?
To the first point, no one wants to die whether they are mafia or townie. Not only would dying be less fun on my part, dying on the first day would result in me losing experience in playing this game. Also, me dying as a townie would just be conducive to mafia victory. On the second point, two of the only people who had posted at that point were accusing me so I didn't want a bandwagon effect to occur. Because of this I pointed out yomi's lack of a substantial accusation as early as possible.
1)Mafia plays for survival, town plays for doing their part for as long as they can. You being afraid of your own survival, speaks volumes of you being a scum. Of course no one wants to die right of the bat, but being fearful of it, is another thing entirely. You even identify it as mafia play, when cornered, but try to add, but I am not doing it because I am mafia.
2) First off it is pretty funny considering, you were first to play the suspicious card of anyone, and on St. Daniel, and only giving the reason for not doing the Vote: St. Daniel, was due to it being a newbie game: "The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia.". There are two possibilities here: You really want to vote for St. Daniel because he either has a townie role, or you suspect him of being mafia for wanting help, without having shown anything mafia-like. Second reason is mumbo-jumbo. First reason is the mafia in you talking. Freudian slip? Anywhich way, it is pretty weak.
Secondly, apparently you showed no fear for St. Daniels life, when you were willing to throw him in front of a bus, and with you not having faith in other peoples judgments, on behalf of weak reasons(at least so soon), it seems like you hoped people would jump onto St. Daniel.
Soon after we find statements such as this: "Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible.", "It is, I just wanted to get clarification on the source of Daniel's statement since it could help tell if dr3am is mafia.", "I just meant he might be mafia or he might be a detective or medic or something."(concerning lurkers, something he doesn't consider is on yomis mind), ": I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier", "Yeah, I realise now that I didn't really think that through."
What was the point of listing my posts if you were'nt going to analyze them.
Yeah, you are right, I should have analyzed those as well. I was stupid in thinking they were self-explanatory. Here goes.
1. This is exactly what you did, when trying to throw St. Daniel in front of the bus, without most people having appeared in the thread. You even wanted lynch d1.
2. You don't trust a new players statements, hence not trusting your own, unless they can back it up with knowledge of the game from someone, then you do. Basically you are saying we shouldn't trust you.
3. You are giving away that you want to know if St. Daniel has a bluerole or not.
4-5. Is you trying to do damage control, realizing you have slipped up.
Actions of mine that you have used to say I am mafia have rightly been interpreted by others as my being an overzealous townie. I would also like to point out that Dracholich did not post any suspicions on me until I mentioned I was slightly suspicious of him and then proceeded to formulate a case against me.
I didn't really post anything on anyone, until it was time to do so.
I haven't made this up, you have said these things. I bet you are happy they think you are merely an overzealous townie, for your slip-ups. Well, I don't. And I think I have given very good reasons. If people want to use it or not, is up to them. I have done my part in explaining my vote.
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Good morning! Couple things to mention:
On April 25 2012 15:17 Gossemerr wrote:
Please don't do this. Post as much as you can. We need to be active if we want to make an accurate assessment on people's alignments. NOBODY should be worried about dying or saying anything that might get them killed. An active town discussion is what we need. Not posting allows the scum to just sit around without having to contribute.
So, lets get the discussion's, analyses, and POST-based cases going starting this night.
Welcome to the game, Gossemerr! God that was hard to spell. I'ma call you Goss so I don't have to spellcheck it every time I try to type it out.
In general, posting at night doesn't help town out a great deal. Anyone with a blue role should know by now what they're going to do, and mafia are discussing amongst themselves who they're going to shoot -- most of the time, any information given out during the night just helps them to make this decision.
However, the game has been so inactive thus far that I'm not entirely opposed to lurkers showing up and trying to make themselves useful, so long as the posting also continues into Day 2.
On April 25 2012 20:06 oneplus wrote:
The only thing i feel abit suspicious about ArcticFox is he is too active at the deadline which could be either way.
If you'll notice, hardly anyone was active at the deadline, except for me and yomi. In an ideal world, every single town would be active at the deadline. If the vote is already going scum's way, there's little reason for them to show up -- mislynch or no-lynch are both a success in scum eyes, though obviously a mislynch is better for them.
insectoceanx will be getting a lot of heat tomorrow based on that last minute vote switch coupled with his hardcore lurking. After posting exactly 2 things in the course of 2 days, only one of those being useful (a post making a case vs. Zealos and saying "yomi is acting very suspicious"), he comes in and does a vote switch after yomi was already starting to look much more townie in the last few minutes, then refuses to explain anything except:
On April 25 2012 11:07 insectoceanx wrote:
I think zealos is the greatest chance of being scum at this point but yomi is close behind and I changed my vote to him for the sake of getting a lynch.
Which he posted *after* the lynch already went through. It put me in a very difficult position, as I was the only one online (if you actually buy nreekay's post about being online exactly 3 minutes after the deadline came up, which I strongly have my doubts about) at the deadline, so it left it to me as to whether the yomi lynch passed or not.
It's kinda hard for me to fault him though...if yomi had posted something that useful even 2 or 3 hours sooner, with enough time to cycle through a few people who came online, we'd very likely be looking at Zealos' flip today instead of yomi's, as Zealos was certainly the stronger scum read at deadline. Again, I'm very disappointed in yomi's play that spent too long "setting up his trap" that nobody fell into and not enough time showing us that he was town.
That will be my last comment on the yomi issue. We know his alignment now, and that's important.
Day 2's agenda will involve heavy pushing of lurkers and include a re-analysis of Zealos' behavior, including why he also decided to lurk instead of making himself useful at deadline when he was one of the top 2 scumreads for town.
Again, a much longer and more detailed analysis post will come near deadline (I've already posted more than I wanted to for a night cycle ), in case mafia decides to take me out, so you'll have a baseline of my thoughts to work from. Lurkers, I would not be opposed to you making yourselves useful, as you will be the first ones I call out.
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I lurk at deadline as I am asleep during that time. It's gonna be like that for most days/nights, sorry about that. I agree that you should look over my posts so far if nessesary, and I am happy to respond to issues' - Provided I am awake at the time.
I would say, don't post too many big reads until right before the night deadline, so as not to influence the scum hit. That's what I will be doing.
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On April 26 2012 00:10 Zealos wrote:
I lurk at deadline as I am asleep during that time. It's gonna be like that for most days/nights, sorry about that. I agree that you should look over my posts so far if nessesary, and I am happy to respond to issues' - Provided I am awake at the time.
I would say, don't post too many big reads until right before the night deadline, so as not to influence the scum hit. That's what I will be doing.
So which is it? Will you be asleep at the deadline or will you be posting your scum reads right before the deadline?
Mainly because you haven't said anything in over a day, lurking on a day where you were on the hot seat for a lynch, I would be interested in hearing your scum reads relatively soon.
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Alright, because it might have been unclear, let me call out some names, in order of signup on page 1:
insectoceanx
Gossemerr (as St. Daniel's replacement)
mutant
zealos
imallinson
So far, the above list of players REALLY need to step it up and make mafia's job harder.
oneplus and nreekay are starting to post more, but I'm still keeping an eye on them, as they were more or less inactive for the first half of the game.
That means out of 11 alive players, Five are able to be picked out as lurkers for sure, and two are on the edge. That makes mafia's job of blending in so much easier. At bare minimum, 4 of these players (likely 5 or 6) have to be town. Until you start posting, there's no way to pick out the mafia from the town. I don't even mind you guys posting at night, because it would be posting something to work with.
What shouldn't be posted right now would be things like your strongest town reads, or instructions to blue players. That's information mafia will use to decide on their night targets. If you wish to use town reads to make your case, it would be more beneficial to town if you wait until close to deadline for this (there are few times I would publicly post a town read, the notable exception being if they're under pressure for a lynch and I'm almost certain they're actually town)
What SHOULD be posted right now -- your strongest scum reads. Anything you find odd about someone's play. Thoughts on yomi's filter, as he is our only confirmed town (concentrating more on the latter half than the earlier half, unless it's specifically about people's reactions to the first half). Thoughts on the arguments going on between Maju, Dracolich, and Dr3am. Thoughts on insects' last minute switch to yomi, and my and nreekay's reactions to it.
There are SO many topics to pick from, just pick something and start making a logical, reasoned case about it. If you're town, you have nothing to lose from posting like this -- not posting because you're afraid of looking dumb just makes it easier for the scum to hide in the shadows and not expose themselves.
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My Reads
St.Daniel/Gossemer
Hasn't posted much of anything and now is being replaced. I dont really have any reads, maybe townie because he hoped to be mafia and then quit when he wasn't or more likely he just didnt have time. Will be looking forward to hearing more from gossemer.
Dracolich70
He seems to be focused on pretty hard on Maju, in fact you have not questioned anyone else besides Maju and saying that yomi was suspicious. Your posts on him are very long and thought out this is good and all but the problem I see is you are not giving any attention to anything else. Also you keep bringing up his Maju's behavior in the first few posts of the game. Always going back to throwing st daniels under the bus, well it would seem you are now trying to place Maju there as well.I wouldnt be suprised if you kept up the attack on maju in the following day.
So basically lets see something else come out of you or you are starting to seem really scummy.
MajuGarzett
Maju has spent a long time defending himself and casting doubt on the lurkers. He hasnt really asked any questions or pointed out anything everyone else did. I don't really have a read on him as yomi was irrationally going after him from the start. I would place Maju in the same boat as dracolich, how do you feel about everyone else besides the people accusing you of things.
oneplus
Oneplus is a town read for me, his posts are constructive and points out with evidence how he feels about everyone plays.
nreekay324
Nreekay seems like a good town vote as well.
mutant
He shares my suspicions of zealos and is also suspicous of maju. Says he used to be suspicious of imallin, but now isnt. Could possibly be defending allin. Need more to get a better read, mutant lets hear what you have to say about everyone else.
This is a possible mafia.
ArcticFox
Seems town to me, calls everyone out on there post and hasnt focused too much on any one particular person. It was a little suspicious when he said he wanst going to be around to post until deadline in case he gets lynched, but after being called out on it has been posting more. If you werent going to be around you wouldnt be around, if you were gonna be around why wouldnt you just keep posting.
Zealos
Another person only targeting maju, otherwise he has not said anything at all. Zealos lets see what you have to say about everyone else.
ForTheDr3am
He was the 2nd person to jump on yomi.
It is bad to offer mafia a free bandwagon in case he actually is just a particularly unhelpful townie, but it seems that there is only one actual vote on him up to now, making me think that there are still people with an interest to keep him alive
Not exactly. I didn't mean to say that everyone who defends you automatically makes himself suspicious in my eyes, but that the fact that you weren't jumped on is a slight indicator that you are not a perfectly innocent townie.
These posts are troublesome for me. Seems you saw the oppurtunity to take town a townie and were upset that everyone wasnt voting to lynch him faster. I am leaning towards mafia here.
yomi
RIP
imallinson
only two posts, I still feel a bit scummy about him.
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Going back and reading through everything ftd had always seemed town to me, but now that yomi flipped green his past posts are very troubling. Right now he is my number 1 read.
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On April 26 2012 04:03 insectoceanx wrote:
If you werent going to be around you wouldnt be around, if you were gonna be around why wouldnt you just keep posting.
Simple answer here -- most of the advice I've gotten says and from my previous readings I've seen that not a lot usually gets done at night, so I typically avoid posting anything major at night to not give mafia as much information to work with. However, as thin as the posting has been, I reconsidered and decided that any move that would serve to make that discussion even *thinner* probably wasn't a good move. Thus, the increase in posting to try to spark discussion.
nreekay as town and dream as scum are interesting reads to me. I'd like you to elaborate on these for me if you wouldn't mind. Specifically, nreekay reads as a null to me, as there's not really enough information there for me to say either way (plus popping up 3 minutes after the deadline is extremely curious, and would lean more scum than town to me). Also, Dr3am is one of the more active posters we have in the thread (granted, nothing in the last 24 hours...which should say something about the thread activity level, if he's not in my lurker list....). With the hard stances he's taken on everything, and the not being afraid of asking people pointed questions, what specifically about his posting is troubling you enough to make him your #1 scum?
Thanks for contributing. It's a start! Let's get everyone involved and posting! Share that info!
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The two lines that I bolded out of his filter I thought could be a little telling. If he is red, he saw an opportunity in yomi as everyone else saw yomi as possibly scum, yet no one had voted for him yet so twice he made comments about how the fact that no one was voting for him seemed like he was scum. Perhaps he was worried he would lost an opportunity to get a townie lynched the first day.
FTD explain what you meant by those two bolded statements above and now that yomi is gone who do you suspect?
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On April 26 2012 05:40 insectoceanx wrote:
The two lines that I bolded out of his filter I thought could be a little telling. If he is red, he saw an opportunity in yomi as everyone else saw yomi as possibly scum, yet no one had voted for him yet so twice he made comments about how the fact that no one was voting for him seemed like he was scum. Perhaps he was worried he would lost an opportunity to get a townie lynched the first day.
FTD explain what you meant by those two bolded statements above and now that yomi is gone who do you suspect?
And your thoughts on nreekay? You've said you thought he was town, but have given no reasoning thus far.
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Looking through nreekays filter I don't see anything that stands out to make him not town, his contributions have been well thought out. After yomi rolled green I also like his assessment. He voted for Zealos and not Yomi. I didnt not get home from work until just before the end of day so if I had not changed my vote Yomi would (probably) still be around. If he was red I would have expected him to perhaps change his vote.
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I already explained to yomi that I meant to express my surprise at the fact that only ArcticFox had voted for him up to then, when I would have expected his post to have been jumped on harder. If you read my posts you will see that it was never the crux of my argument, I only mentioned it towards the end of my post and I only clarified to yomi with an additional post afterwards because he asked.
In retrospect the low amount of votes on him is easily explained by overall inactivity, but at that point I thought it was weird and worth at least noting.
Going from that to I am scum and want him lynched as fast as possible is quite a bit of a jump to make, and a rather weak basis to call someone mafia on.
I originally wanted to respond to Dracolich, but our discussion is going in circles and I would really like to hear the opinions of a few other people on him/those posts first. My highest scumreads from the day would have been Zealos and Dracolich, but on the other hand of the scale we still have half a dozen lurkers who barely/don't post.
There are a few things I want to point out on other people though.
@nreekay:
You have listed oneplus as strong townread for defending yomi. Not only is that an invalid reason because scum could just easily get cred for every mislynch, you also casually mention that you defended yomi yourself as well, one sentence before saying that singling himself out is something that mafia would not do. Not only is the latter part a baseless assumption again, he also wasn't exactly singling himself out when you said the same. (At least I did not have the impression that he was far more adamant about it than you, and even mentioned himself that he had lost confidence in him to an extent.)
You also assume that mafia would definitely try to get yomi mislynched. Once again, a baseless assumption at best, and I don't see why
However, I am convinced that the mafia worked to get yomi mis-lynched because yomi did so much of the mafia’s work for them.
doing mafia's work would be a reason for mafia to try to lynch him. Since all your reads have this as base, I find your analysis rather weak and would urge you to redo it.
@oneplus: You, too, take yomi's flip as cornerstone by only analyzing the people who voted for him, with apparently similar intentions to nreekay. I already gave my thoughts about that, and am particularly surprised that you don't give your thoughts on Zealos despite having voted for him. In first place, you basically said he was scummy for trying to say that people are scummy, which is an awkward explanation and something I'd ask you to clarify for me too.
@insectoceanx: I just responded to you already about my lines, but I also want to ask one thing. What classifies as "scummy" for you?
/I also like how you call nreekay's post well thought out.
@ArcticFox: I'm very thankful that you try to get the lurkers posting, but I am surprised you have not given a lot of your opinions on other people apart from that. I know, or rather feel, myself that it is hard though, and I hope your deadline post will shine more light onto that.
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On April 26 2012 06:57 ForTheDr3am wrote:
@ArcticFox: I'm very thankful that you try to get the lurkers posting, but I am surprised you have not given a lot of your opinions on other people apart from that. I know, or rather feel, myself that it is hard though, and I hope your deadline post will shine more light onto that.
It's entirely my intention. With the amount of lurkers we have though, I had no intention of quickly posting my scumreads and allowing an easy rewording of my thoughts/bandwagoning of my ideas. We have few enough original posts as it is. My current goal is to get discussion flowing so people have enough to talk to each other about in case I don't live through the night.
Plus, as it stood, with 10 other people alive, I had 7 marked as lurkers. It's really freaking hard to give opinions based off of that. I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt, though, as the majority of lurkers by definition have to be town.
Furthermore, my views on who have been acting suspicious haven't changed much since yesterday's posting -- Zealos was aggressive then went into lurk mode, imallinson is still coasting with 2 posts, and oneplus's contribution since my pressure on him have been a bunch of summary posts with no actual meat or new ideas introduced. With the lurkers not contributing, it's hard to add any new analysis to that.
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EBWOP -- I do have new analysis to add of course, but I have nobody to take off the suspicious list, because they haven't done anything differently to change my mind on them.
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Well, I guess if I'm going to say that much, I might as well list out everything:
Zealos -- Still my top scumread. His first few posts were full of aggressive attacks, followed by a case on Maju that was a trumped up load of crap that Maju deflected fairly well, and his total contribution since has been a post to excuse his lurking. There's been flat out no analysis, just a bunch of attacks and excuses.
imallinson -- 2 posts -- one of which was a throwaway post, the other a useless list of obvious points and parroted cases that were already made. He needs to be pushed HARD to contribute something actually worthwhile.
oneplus -- As mentioned already, his only contributions have been a defense of yomi (while mentioning that he's acting like scum, but still calling him town), followed by a summary post. It's a bunch of useless throwaway while trying to say "I don't fluff my posts," while doing nothing but making a single fluff post in the last 24 hours. This guy reeks of scum right now.
@insectoceanx -- I still have my doubts about you based on how the yomi lynch worked out, but you've doubled your post count today so I want you to keep that up. Your reads for the most part boggle my mind, and have little to no reasoning behind them. It's another curse of doing list posting like that -- if you try to analyze every player of the game at once, you put pressure on nobody, scum really don't have to answer, and you give mafia a really good idea as to which townies are looking most townie. My best advice is to focus on your 1 or 2 best scum reads and make them answer every question you throw at them, while poking the lurkers with a stick to make them active.
Other issues --
nreekay's posting is apparently fooling some people into thinking he's saying something. He hasn't. He made a summary post on Zealos's actions. He showed up 3 minutes after the lynch and took a jab at yomi. He also pulled the same summary post deal that Oneplus did. It's useless. It's either a clueless town or complete scum move. He needs to be pressed tomorrow.
The Maju/Dracolich bullshitstorm that is swirling between them seems to me to be two townies reading too much into each other. The fact that nobody has really stepped in to take sides on it points to mafia not wanting to get terribly involved in it, and the cases themselves are full of nothing but air. I hope they stop the bickering and get back to the scumhunting.
You can consider anyone I don't mention to either be a town read or a null/lurker read.
At this point, add mutant to the lurker list, and move insectoceanx to the semi-lurker. Keep pressing everyone to post. Ask direct questions if you want direct answers, making long listy posts of your reads is generally pointless because scum feels no obligation to answer, while overzealous town feel like they have to defend themselves and you end up bickering amongst each other while the scum can sit back and laugh.
Specifically, if I am going to ask questions:
imallinson -- why should we not lynch you tomorrow? You've been 100% worthless to town so far.
oneplus -- Do you have any actual analysis to add? The list. summary, and parrot posts are scumtells to the core. Where are your actual cases?
zealos -- You've hidden long enough. Best scum read and why. And a real case this time, not the trumped up load of crap you tried to make stick to Maju.
lurkers -- STEP UP AND POST. Town has no reason to be afraid. Post loud and strong, and it will force the scum to not use lurking as a weapon.
Mafia are not winning this game so much as town is just pissing it away right now. Scum fears activity. Be active. We can't catch scum if we don't force them to do anything, and we can't force them to do anything while half the town is silent.
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EBWOP -- If there's any specific questions you'd like answered, like my reads on a player I didn't mention, or my perspective on a situation that I might have glossed over, I'd appreciate the question before the night ends. I'll be monitoring the thread and do my best to answer.
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Hello everyone,
I just got home from work. I'd like the opportunity to take the chance to make dinner, and then to have another read through of the thread.
Work has been a bit of a drain, and getting called a "fucking nutjob" yesterday put a huge damper on me wanting to put effort into this game.
I haven't had the opportunity to go through the thread with a fine-toothed comb after the lynch yesterday. After dinner, I'll gather my thoughts, go through the thread again, and post my strongest scum-reads.
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Day 2:
Eleven men went to their private offices last night. They locked their doors and poured their tea, jotting down notes and pacing deep into the night. The telephone lines and internet connections had been discreetly disabled, and without anything good on local television, they slowly drifted to a fitful sleep.
As the pale sun climbed behind an ashen layer of smog, the men returned to the conference room one by one, breaking their fast on 豆浆 and 烧饼. Though some of them might be killers, they were certainly all Chinese, and they muttered ominously into their 稀饭.
One man did not come down for his breakfast, nor did he answer at his locked door. The Minister of Agriculture frowned. "It is unlike the old fellow to oversleep. He still keeps the hours of his youth. We should check on him." The Vice President nodded, and the Minister of Security produced a key from his coat pocket.
nreekay324 was slumped onto his desk, and the contents of his first aid kit were scattered across the tiled floor. His skin looked flat and drawn under the fluorescent lights, and the Minister of Security hurriedly rushed to his side to check his pulse and eyelids. "Dead," he said, picking up a mostly-empty syringe from the desktop and scrutinizing its contents. "He was killed. An overdose of anasthetics, unless I miss my guess."
The Vice President brought the grim news back to the remainder of the Politburo as they returned to the conference room. "Three good men are dead. They served their nation and people well, and we must not fail them."
nreekay324, Town Medic, was killed!
It is now Day 2. The deadline is in 48 hours, 19:00 PST on 4/27/12. Remember to vote in this thread. Proper formatting is ##Vote: <NAME>
With 10 players alive, a majority of 6 is needed to lynch.
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oh dammnit.
gg. thanks midnight and GM for hosting.
gl town.
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That was one hell of a blue snipe. =/
Going to bed. It would be awesome if there was a ton of informational posting done overnight while I'm asleep.
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@Dracholich
2) First off it is pretty funny considering, you were first to play the suspicious card of anyone, and on St. Daniel, and only giving the reason for not doing the Vote: St. Daniel, was due to it being a newbie game: "The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia.". There are two possibilities here: You really want to vote for St. Daniel because he either has a townie role, or you suspect him of being mafia for wanting help, without having shown anything mafia-like. Second reason is mumbo-jumbo. First reason is the mafia in you talking. Freudian slip? Anywhich way, it is pretty weak.
Secondly, apparently you showed no fear for St. Daniels life, when you were willing to throw him in front of a bus, and with you not having faith in other peoples judgments, on behalf of weak reasons(at least so soon), it seems like you hoped people would jump onto St. Daniel.
He did, "I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie."; . You both gave weak reasons. Yours even weaker, because you target St. Daniel for the reasons of asking for help. Something you yourself did before him. You project your own actions onto others who do what you do, and call them suspicious, hence you would find yourself very suspicious. I do too.
A large part of you suspicion against me seems to be because of post about St. Daniel early on. Just for reference here is the quote.
I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia.
You say that through this post I was throwing Daniel under the bus and doing exactly what yomi had done to me. You got this idea from me saying that I only didn't vote for Daniel because this was a newbie game. However, if we look back at the sentence, we can see it says "I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia". By this I meant that he may be blue as well as I clarified to Dr3am. So, we see that I had not identified Daniel as mafia but had merely been commenting on possibilities. Furthermore if I had wanted Daniel to be lynched why would I have not gone after him further? After that post I said nothing which would insinuate that Daniel is mafia. Also, if I wanted him lynched I probably would have voted for him. You call me a hypocrite for doing the same things that yomi did but there are large differences between yomi and I as yomi made an accusation and voted while I made a comment and did not vote. You cannot equate a single comment with no vote as trying to throw someone under the bus.
1. This is exactly what you did, when trying to throw St. Daniel in front of the bus, without most people having appeared in the thread. You even wanted lynch d1.
2. You don't trust a new players statements, hence not trusting your own, unless they can back it up with knowledge of the game from someone, then you do. Basically you are saying we shouldn't trust you.
3. You are giving away that you want to know if St. Daniel has a bluerole or not.
4-5. Is you trying to do damage control, realizing you have slipped up.
1. I think I addressed this earlier in this post.
2.If you take the statement in context, I was asking about this as Daniel said he had never played before but then implied he had prior experience playing. It was not that I did not trust a new players statements, it was that I wanted clarification on a contradiction.
3. I was clarifying a statement of mine when asked, I don't see how that gives any connotation of being mafia. Even if I had been trying to figure out who was blue, it would be a rather stupid strategy to hope that Daniel would pop up and say that he's a blue.
4-5. Based on 3 so hopefully that answer resolves these statements.
1)Mafia plays for survival, town plays for doing their part for as long as they can. You being afraid of your own survival, speaks volumes of you being a scum. Of course no one wants to die right of the bat, but being fearful of it, is another thing entirely. You even identify it as mafia play, when cornered, but try to add, but I am not doing it because I am mafia
I play to have fun,it wouldn't be too fun to be dead would it?. My defensiveness was because I wanted to play the game. Fear is wanting to avoid something because it poses a threat. Getting lynched would be threatening to me being able to play so how am I wrong to fear lynching?
On other players
insectoceanx - Unsure. Generally thoughtful posts that don't shy away from suspicion or accusations when needed. This would usually be characteristic of a townie.. I personally did not see his last minute vote for yomi as suspicious as he had earlier posted his own suspicions of yomi but nreekay made a pretty good case against him I think. I would like to hear his response to what nreekay said.
St. Daniel/ Gossemerr - Completely unsure though I thought his point against Dr3am didn't make very much sense.
Dracholich70 - I am slightly suspicious of Dracolich. At the start of the game he was subtly discouraging voting and was mostly recapping instead of posting his thoughts. Later he revealed his suspicions of me and yomi. This also may hint toward mafia as we now now that yomi was innocent and I at least know that I am a townie. Though I do have my suspicions, dracholich would not be my first candidate as mafia. Once he, like I am doing now, posts his opinions on people other than me, I may be able to draw new conclusions.
oneplus - I initially thought he may be mafia but my suspicions have somewhat abated with his last post giving thoughts on various players. I do still wonder why his posts at the start were relatively content free. Not completely convinced he is town but not too suspicious either. My initial suspicion of him protecting mafia quite obviously fell apart with yomi ending up townie.
mutant - I see him as town, not afraid to give readings and accusations. His accusation of yomi seemed well reasoned so I have no reason to think mutant simply was a mafia who wanted to kill yomi.
ArcticFox - Similar read to mutant but Fox has more posts and thought making him seem even less mafia like.
Zealos - Really didn't post any reads or content at all except for one post accusing me. He also never responded to my response to his allegations. His play so far has seemed quite scummy due to the lack of real content. The only thing that makes me think he might not be mafia is that he did not vote for yomi. If he was mafia and did this he left a very real chance that yomi would live. I am still suspicious of him however as there is the chance both him and insect are mafia and knew that only one of them had to vote yomi to ensure a lynch while the other could vote something else to avoid suspicion. One of my higher rate suspects for mafia.
ForTheDr3am - Once again the question asking, analytical type. I have no reason to suspect him thus far.
imallinson - Has been a lurker and only brought up accusations that were fairly common at the time. Didn't bring that much new stuff to the table. I am suspicious of him.
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Ok, after being distracted by Starcraft, I finally got through the thread again.
My top scum-read is still Zealos, despite him not moving onto yomi at the last minute (And imo, the main reason he didn't switch to yomi at the last minute is that he didn't want to make his lynch today 100% certain). He posts way way way too aggressively, without pretty much any substance in any post.
The only thing that has had any substance is his attack against Maju, and even that didn't have much going for it. It basically boiled down Maju being suspicious that yomi would attack for him. yomi's posting was extremely odd, and because of that, I think it was justified.
Do you really think that your posting history (aggressive without real analysis, then lurking) is pro-town play?
IF you really think this, then explain yourself. As has been requested periodically throughout day 1
IF you really don't see yourself as the best lynch today, who would you lynch, and why?
And as requested, some analysis on people, in hopes of getting some discussion going.
insectoceanx - Posting a lot more now. Would love to see more focus in your analysis. It doesn't have to be a page for each case, just make them answer you until you're either satisfied they're scummy, or else they appear much less scummy than some other person.
And fyi - I didn't want to post my other analysis yesterday, as I didn't want yomi to slip through day 1 by a hair's width like he did in the last game he was in. I wanted the focus to remain on him. It unfortunately backfired :/
St.Daniel/Gossemerr - I read in another thread that he got food poisoning and was really sick . So, he has good reason to have been lurking. I don't have a read on the replacement, as he hasn't really posted
Dracolich70 - I thought he was being really scummy on day 1. I really didn't like his early arguments against dream, as to me it seemed to say that he wanted even more inactivity. And he posted a case against Maju which I really didn't think was valid. This, combined with the large posts, led me to believe he was trying to distract the town against a yomi lynch. Then yomi flipped town. I still don't like his argument against Maju, and I tended to side with dream in the big circular argument. I still think he may be scum, but I'm not yet willing to force the issue, when I am way more suspicious of zealos.
And I must say, I really don't like reading his large posts. I find them really hard to follow. :/
MajuGarzett - I still have a read of new town. I'm not convinced by any case I've read against him.
oneplus - He seems to be setting himself up as one of the noble few who believed in yomi. His recent summary post doesn't strike my as fluffy as Arctic thinks it is, though his reads on everyone seems to be pretty bad. Everyone he lists is either "scummy" or "I think townie, but are they actually scum?"
I'm confused by this:
oneplus wrote:
Well he voted for yomi because he think that yomi is pointless one-liner which i kinda agree until the last few hours before the deadline where yomi has started to contribute. Hence I don't see a strong reason for Mutant to vote yomi yet.
I voted for yomi because his behavior was anti-town. You agree that he was posting pointless one-liners, but didn't see a strong reason for me to vote for him yet? I would love some clarification on this.
ArcticFox - Solid poster, good asset to town. Pushes people to post, makes solid cases.
Zealos - Argued above. The weirdest thing to me is that he claims not to see the argument against him.
ForTheDr3am - Another solid poster. He has the type of early aggression I like, and I believe is very pro-town. He questions people, makes them explain their motives, and substantiates his reasoning.
imallinson - I said earlier that I was less suspicious of him. Upon a re-read, I don't think it's nearly as positive as I thought it was (I think I was blinded by his support of a yomi lynch :/). Minimal analysis on people in that post, and that yomi switch at the last minute with no real explanation is really suspicious.
And he still only has two (real) posts. Would probably be an easy lynch, but I really want him to defend himself.
As for the dream/draco argument:
I could see it as two townies arguing with each other (though I am much more sure that dream is town that draco). If you two are still suspicious of each other, I would appreciate it if either of you would post a solid case against the other, as a serious candidate for a lynch.
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I don't see aggresive posting as a mafia trait, if thats what you mean. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to post before deadline, sorry about that. I'm at collage now, but I'll have change to post my scumreads around 1:30 ish BST.
Before you all decide for certain that I'm mafia, bear in mind the only arguement used against me thus far have just been "He was aggresive at the start" There are players that are lurking more than me, and ones that have been less useless, not to mention voting for the wrong person ^^.
I'll be writing my case soon.
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On April 26 2012 06:57 ForTheDr3am wrote:
@oneplus: You, too, take yomi's flip as cornerstone by only analyzing the people who voted for him, with apparently similar intentions to nreekay. I already gave my thoughts about that, and am particularly surprised that you don't give your thoughts on Zealos despite having voted for him. In first place, you basically said he was scummy for trying to say that people are scummy, which is an awkward explanation and something I'd ask you to clarify for me too.
Well since it's daytime now, I guess it's time to give my thoughts on those who didn't go for yomi. I am back to this again and I think this is very highly possible which is around 80-90% true. we have 2 scum in the 7 who go for yomi and 1 scum among the 4 who is not going for yomi. And nreekay is dead consequently there left Zealos, Draco and myself. The chances of getting a scum is quite positive here which is 33.3% and for myself I know that I am a townie so my vote will be between zealos and draco which is 50% chance correct. If there is a vigilante in this game i hope we would lynch one of them out ( if he flipped green ) we will shoot another which would probably be red. If we lynch a red then it would be great the vig could save his bullet for better used.
I wish everyone would come in and participate in this discussion as we have enough evidence to so solve this and lead the town to the victory. Why would I say so? Because when we are force to lynch among 3 of us we will see how would his scummate act when we have to lynch their scummate. Either protecting them ? or trying to lynch their scummate to gain the confident from the town.
Of course 3 of us will have better information compare to others because we know our OWN role! Hence we should explain more about this agenda. We have a similiarity among Draco and Zealos both of them are voting for Maju in Day1. If both of them flipped green I will be no.1 scumlist for everyone but I doubt are they going to flipped green. IF one of them flipped red Maju will be in my no.1 scum because they are trying to vote for their scummate in day1 to gain the confident from the town since yomi vote is way higher than everyone else so which is nearly impossible to miss lynch their scum mate.
Lets talk about guessing what role we have inside this setup, nreekay has flipped medic so I assume we at least have a vig or a cop left. If there is a cop he might find out something last night and have slightly more information hence he could analyze this out better than anyone of us. But role claiming isn't a good choice here because the medic has died he couldn't protect the vig/cop anymore. SO I hope the blue role can be helping here secretly.
On April 26 2012 08:36 ArcticFox wrote:
oneplus -- As mentioned already, his only contributions have been a defense of yomi (while mentioning that he's acting like scum, but still calling him town), followed by a summary post. It's a bunch of useless throwaway while trying to say "I don't fluff my posts," while doing nothing but making a single fluff post in the last 24 hours. This guy reeks of scum right now.
Well Arctic IF you are a town I think you would love my post here, Also arctic strike me hard as a town as he is the only one who suspect me the most and put me inside his scumlist. Why? We have a townie and a medic dead. Which is an advantage for the scum. And I don't think scum would be that aggresive when they are in a leading position.
On April 26 2012 15:46 mutant wrote:oneplus - He seems to be setting himself up as one of the noble few who believed in yomi. His recent summary post doesn't strike my as fluffy as Arctic thinks it is, though his reads on everyone seems to be pretty bad. Everyone he lists is either "scummy" or "I think townie, but are they actually scum?" I'm confused by this: Show nested quote +oneplus wrote:
Well he voted for yomi because he think that yomi is pointless one-liner which i kinda agree until the last few hours before the deadline where yomi has started to contribute. Hence I don't see a strong reason for Mutant to vote yomi yet. I voted for yomi because his behavior was anti-town. You agree that he was posting pointless one-liners, but didn't see a strong reason for me to vote for him yet? I would love some clarification on this.
I agree that yomi is a pointless one-liner in the earliest part of the game but I don't agree that he is a scum. He is just a random townie who is trying to scumhunt in a bad way for me. I think he should retract earlier and not waited until like last 2 hours before the deadline.
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I know I haven't post anything about my thought on zealos and draco yet, But i have to go out soon I will be back and talk about them when I get back. I hope to get some thought of you guys about my agenda before i get home then I will start my analyze on zealos and draco.
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Ok, time to look at the bright side. Lack of night posting means that my morning analysis is much easier and faster. Let's go!
@Zealos -- If you're going to try to discredit the case against you, post the whole case. My argument wasn't that you were aggressive, it was that you are aggressive in an unhelpful way, that you lurked hardcore, and have made a grand total contribution to town of one case on Maju that's about as watertight as the Titanic. That fact that you "didn't vote for the wrong person" means absolutely nil. I can give good town and scum reasons both for not voting yomi. "I made a crappy case against Maju then disappeared from the thread." is not high on the reasons to believe you're town. Step it up and post something useful. Specifically, answer the questions mutant listed that we've been trying to get you to answer for 2 days now.
@oneplus -- Why would I like that post, exactly? Analysis of voting patterns with no conclusion, discussion of blue roles that we can't be sure of, and trying to argue why the guy who flipped town is a town (huh?). It's a bunch of useless junk and moreover, I still have NO clue who you think is scum. How is that helpful? I sincerely hope your next post is better.
@Maju -- Lists are nice, but press your case. Who is your top scum? Why so? Nobody has any reason to answer to anything in your post right now, including Dracolich, who you posted a lot to but never even asked him to post anything in return. If he's reading scummy to you, press him to answer something. If not, end the circular arguments and defenses that, frankly, give me a headache when I try to decipher you two's posts, and focus your efforts on unearthing a scum. Other than that, keep up the activity level and don't disappear on us again. >.>
@Mutant -- At night you can make good reasoning for not posting analysis (though in this game's activity level, I'm for you posting your analyis whenever you damn well please), but during the day there's almost no reason to not post your reads. Be brave, be bold! I like that you have strong opinions, I just want to see them more often. Your reads at this moment line up very well with mine. Keep it up and feel free to press the people who answer your questions if you don't like their answers.
That's everyone. 5 more people who haven't posted yet today. GET ACTIVE.
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EBWOP -- in the oneplus section, meant "WIFOM analysis of voting patterns", as there's no way to be sure about any of it based off the voting placements just yet. I could argue strongly for any number from 1-3 of scum voting yomi yesterday (though arguing 0 voted yomi is a much harder argument). Sadly, the case was strong enough against him that I can't draw anything else out of it, as he even admitted he acted the exact same way that got him lynched in his first game and *expected* to be voted for. I'm not sure what conclusions you can draw when a town's trying to get himself lynched, except by analyzing the reactions to him, and not specifically the voting pattern. Going back and looking at how everyone reacted to him acting erratically is going to be my pet project today, other than "beat lurkers over the head with a stick."
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EBWOP #2 -- "exact same way that almost got him lynched". Day 1 of newbie VIII he would have died acting the same way, except a hero save by a completely stupid townie move saved him -- why he thought he wouldn't get lynched doing the same thing this game even without a meta argument is beyond me.
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Alright Arctic, now I have something to defend myself from.
1. I was unhelpful at the start, but this was due to me being far too ego-centric thinking I knew all the right things to do having played 3 games, which is clearly not the case ^^
2. As for me posting some decent cases, that's what I intend to do now.
List:
Townies
ArcticFox - Posted the most useful stuff by far, and has made lots of reads. There is no reason a mafia player would be that audacious.
ForTheDr3am - Similar reasons. Is very keen to call people out, and posts without a hidden agenda as far as I can see.
Scum
imallision - Has posted VERY little, apart from a list thread, which just seems like a subtle way of pushing lynches away from him and/or his scumbuddies. I actually don't know why he's alive at all, he's posted near nothing at all.
Maju - Still: He barely ever posts real thoughts, just a lot of urms and ers:
I just meant he might be mafia or he might be a detective or medic or something.
Yomi seems suspicious to me
I guess oneplus is a candidate for mafia as well.
Should we lynch lurkers? think we probably should
I am less suspicious of Zealos now as if he was mafia he would have probably had voted yomi to ensure the lynch. (His one solid read on me lasted all of a day)
insectoceanx - Unsure.
St. Daniel/ Gossemerr - Completely unsure
Seems very keen to post under the guise of content without actually being all too sure of anything. I want to hear his choice for lynch right now rather than who might be suspicious maybe.
I am also somewhat suspicious of Draco - Mainly due to the number of people bringing him up, and that his counter - arguements seem pretty average at best. I don't think I would lynch him tonight, but I definatly would point him as a ##FOS: Draco
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United States22154 Posts
So, this is my fault for not keeping apace with the thread, but the next personal attack I see will result in an immediate modkill.
Post civilly or not at all. This is the only warning you will get.
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Hey if anyone needs someone to bounce off ideas I'll be glad to be of service!
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On April 26 2012 23:25 sandroba wrote:
Hey if anyone needs someone to bounce off ideas I'll be glad to be of service!
Use these coaching resources if you're only not posting for fear of not being useful. As we've been saying countless times -- the only people who should fear posting are mafia. If you have a read on someone, make it. More information isn't a bad thing -- if we agree, we'll tell you, if we don't, we'll argue with you. That's how this game works.
Be active! It's the only way we're going to make progress in this game.
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EBWOP: I'm receiving coaching advice as well to bounce ideas off of, so I highly suggest everyone makes use of these resources. Then uses that info to POST MORE!
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I suppose you're allowed to ask for a coach at any point?
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Hey ArcticFox I doubt english is not my mother tongue which make you can't understand me. I am trying to bring a new topic out for everyone to discuss which is lynch Draco / zealos / me out today beacause it is so highly possible 1 scum among us I want to discuss about what you guys think about this suggestion and not pointing at this guy post alot so he is helpful, that guy post a little so he is a scum. I want to bring more concrete information out.
I know that we have scum outside 3 of us but I would like to put them aside first and hunt down the 1st scum which is either Zealos or Draco. I hope you can think from the evidence and mathematical way instead of only analyzing post.
Also I emphasize so hard that Zealos and Draco we have 1 of them as scum and you tell me no one is in my scum list. I seriously wan to kill myself now. You are so town for me so I hope that you can work this out with me. I argue that If zealos flipped green Draco is red and vice versa! not the guy who flipped town is a town.
Discussion of blue role is always an important issue and pretty useful in a semi open setup because we want the vig to shoot the correct target and cop to check who is guilty but not who is innocent! Please think about the setup and the possibility!
I am still having the same stand as day1, Zealos is still my most decent vote. As I cant see any urge on him which want town to win so badly As we can see this from ArcticFox he want to bring out posts so badly. Zealos is always so cool and calm like never get emo even when people pointing at him. Everyone know Arctic and Dream are the 2 who posts the most so by quoting they are solid poster , town read is not contributing at all because EVERYONE of us know this.
We want some discussion to go around and not only what we thought about others, If everyone come out and posts alot mean they are pro-town and those who are not so good at creative writing is scum then we have tons of scum vs few townie in this game.
I am saying that we lynch zealos or draco, and I got ignored.
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I mean I got ignored by zealos , can I have something from you zealos?
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United States22154 Posts
mutant replaced by Ydriel
Need one more replacement still.
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On April 27 2012 00:49 Zealos wrote:
I suppose you're allowed to ask for a coach at any point?
There are 5 coaches listed in the newbie section of the first page. Just shoot a PM to any one of them. So far none of them have bitten me. >.>
Coaches so far have been giving general good advice on what to look for, rather than getting player specific. The idea is to get us all to think correctly about what we're doing, rather than give us what they're actually seeing. I have a feeling we wouldn't have lynched yomi if they could come right out and say what they think. But that's why we're all in a newbie game.
It's only my 2nd game, I'm still working on my reading abilities. But it's nigh impossible to tell the town lurkers from the scum lurkers when nobody's bothering to post.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
A case for Draco being scum:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 23 2012 18:23 Dracolich70 wrote:
Hi, so the game got finally started.
I have read through the posts, and thus far we have this:
- Lynch could be good. It weeds out lurkers, whom must/can be scum".
- Being dunce is valid for targeting.
- A good discussion is good, it nearly got a scum on day 1 in another game.
- Yomi and Maju accusing each other.
- Zealous accusing Maju, which results in ArticFox and nreekay324 thinking Zealous is scummy.
- Dream stating the validity of good discussions, while he states he will not be around for deadlines.
- Those who post are less scummy.
It may because I am a rookie, but it all seems very muddy. And to me, people stating "In the last game..." makes me think that a person knowing the behaviorism of both parties can emulate either one, and as such manipulate to their fitting. And while being aggressive can get this party started, it makes me feel some eager to muddy up the place with "information" on the basis of accusing left and right. It it works, it must be based on luck, if you ask me.
I am okay with a d1 lynch, IF it is on the basis of valid information.
His first post is just a summation of the thread so far. This screams of trying to look like you are contributing
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 00:41 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +3)Well everyone has posted something but they didn't say much they just say lynch someone which could be suspicious such as dracolich and insecto we might need more from them. I am pretty sure I didn't say such a thing. I am pretty sure that was the direct opposite of what I said. I am also pretty certain I have stated that I feel that a lot of people are just pointing fingers left and right for the most part, and seemingly this is going to continue. However, I am not going about be the front runner in a lynch mob, when I feel this way still, and joining in with the finger-pointing. This being said, if you want something, then I think yomi is acting a bit weird to say the least. The only thing I think I agree with him on is the uncertainty of d1 lynches. For the most part he has responded with complete disinterest, and awkward behavior and responses, when responding. If it is something he does, when scum, or it's because he is one-dimensional, I do not know. Or even if it makes him scum. Other than that I don't see a lot of substance.
This post is saying people should stop pointing fingers at each other, basically that they should stop scum hunting as much. This is followed by airing suspicions of yomi who was the easy target all day.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 01:24 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +This post is very weird even as a first post for a rookie. First, you post a list which is basically a mix of events and statements, so pretty much completely use- and contentless. The rest of the post apparently is written with the intention to slow down scumhunting. You state that people might be emulating behaviorism, which is quite pointless to say as scum will always try to appear as town, with or without reference play. The list was trying to draw a picture of how I feel the events thus far. Which is either guided by paranoia, or as a initiator for debate(?). I am not sure if this is the right way, as it can clutter the thread mightily quickly. If you feel it is content less, then it is because most of the accusations are pretty weak. It was pretty much the highlights, as I see it. I just said that knowing the behavior of either one, makes it easier to manipulate, and right now, I feel/fear some are trying to manipulate the course of actions with pointing fingers left and right.
He defends his summation of events as trying to start conversation. This isn't true because restating conversations that have already happened doesn't get new conversations started it just keeps people stuck in old ones. He is also trying to hide behind his newbness.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 01:24 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +Then, you claim that making too many accusations will muddy up the place with fake/useless information, and that making cases is based on luck. You seem to be afraid of the town getting things done. Why would you be? You should be making cases yourself and analyzing people instead if you want to be helpful. Posts like this one make you seem like scum. I don't know if it is rocket science, but if we all take turns to point fingers at 2-3 in each of our posts, and they in turn do the same, it gets pretty muddied. Isn't saying "pointing too many accusations will muddy up the place" something logical? Sorry, it is to me. I have still said I am okay with a lynch, however I am not a supporter of just lynching someone to make something happen. And as I stated - I am very open to valid information. Is this the part where I should point fingers at you?
This again makes no sense. If everyone had pointed fingers at 2-3 random people then yes it would muddy the thread but that isn't the case. Most of the finger pointing was aimed at Yomi, Zealos and Maju. This is actually useful information.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 05:59 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +Making "highlights" of what happened in the thread is a very easy way for scum to pretend that they are contributing. Unlike what you claim, it also does not give a picture about what you feel as you have no input on your own. It isn't even a proper list of events as random statements are mixed into it. Or it could just be a list of things that happened as I saw it when I opened up the thread for the first time, and saw people were already at each other with very little substance in their hand to guide them. The highlights are pretty accurate, I believe. Highlights don't muddy threads, but clearify. I bet mafia likes obfuscation, what do you think? I find it problematic for instance that you hope for good discussions, and then you bark at every tree you can find, and trying to suggest what people should be posting to be of use to you. Is that in relation with you not being around on deadlines, and want to control events?
The highlights don't clarify anything that wasn't already clear. If you can go through the thread in 10 minutes and sum it up so can everyone else.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 18:30 Dracolich70 wrote:
1) Maju:
Firstly he starts by offering both a question and a suggestion, "Should we lynch lurkers? I think we should." now that he has posted, it seems like a suspect way of trying to not let suspicion fall onto him, and reaching consensus, which he offers soon after. In fact stating it is more important that generating discussions. "Well the main purpose was to get a consensus on how things should be done, generating discussion is just another benefit."
Secondly he responds to Zealos offer, " He's right, no lynch = really bad.", with "I agree that we should lynch someone. The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia." (more on this below).
Thirdly when yomi votes for him, he immediately counter-accuses yomi, with this: "Yomi seems suspicious to me. He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has. That makes it more likely someone will be lynched. Also, he gave no reasons as to why I should be lynched. This makes me think he's a mafia who just wants to get some townie lynched."
I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such. He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, when it comes to st. Daniel for the weak reason of him asking for help in a newbie game, much like he even did before Daniel, and I am "dumbfounded" as to why he did this. Lastly, that on one hand he offers to Zealos that we should lynch someone, but then uses the exact same reasoning against yomi as suspect. If we should suspect yomi on these things, then it should be more so with Maju. At best Maju is hypocritical.
Soon after we find statements such as this: "Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible.", "It is, I just wanted to get clarification on the source of Daniel's statement since it could help tell if dr3am is mafia.", "I just meant he might be mafia or he might be a detective or medic or something."(concerning lurkers, something he doesn't consider is on yomis mind), ": I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier", "Yeah, I realise now that I didn't really think that through."
Maybe the best answers can be found here: "Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.". Why would he be fearful 1) as a townie. 2) That yomis near no-reason posts would gain traction?
The difference between Maju and Yomi was that Maju never said Daniel was scum and didn't vote for him so it's not him being hypocritical. I'm not really sure why you posted a load of quotes from Maju without any explanation. If you think they make him scummy explain why. The final point about town not being scared of getting lynched is invalid as well town don't want to get lynched just as much as scum. Also that early on in a game it's impossible to tell what town will latch onto for a lynch. Defending yourself even from a null case is perfectly valid.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 18:30 Dracolich70 wrote:
2) Yomi.
I am conflicted on yomi. On one hand he offers some of the same fears that I have with not giving away too much information, when it comes to roles, but more importantly it was this that caught my immediate attention on him: " it makes perfect sense if you don't play like maniac day1 townies who read way too much into things. there's nothing contradictory or unusual about what I said.", which is something I myself have tried to avoid, and thought was happening right off the bat.
The bad things are that like Maju, he is of little use at best, if he doesn't aid town in some way. He is constantly evasive, and reluctant to answer questions directly, ie "Can everyone post how many games they've played in (on this or other sites) and what they were in those other games (if it's just a few). And links to the games.", and him under the belief that day 1 doesn't provide any useful information/reading options. To it seems like he doesn't really care, if we catch scum or not.
And for the most part, we see him not willing to offer anything, on the contrary. I am not sure if I should put too much into him playing this way as scum, but it can't be a positive thing.
This is a very soft defence of Yomi. Both this and the bad case against Maju make me think Draco is scum trying to get town cred when Yomi flips town.
There is more posts along the same line later on. More defence of his first two posts where he keeps pushing less scumhunting:
On April 25 2012 15:12 Dracolich70 wrote:
I had written an analysis on the little you had written, but I found it counter-productive, when some had already taken the "scum-hunt"-cap on. 12 scumhunters makes it easy for Mafia to hide in the "I said, you said. I find you scummy". For the most part I have spent time trying to explain an opening post to you.
Then some more on his case against Maju which doesn't add anything to make it any good and adds more soft defence of Yomi. This fits well into the trying to get town cred from Yomi's flip.
##Vote: Dracolich70
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United States22154 Posts
Replacement found, Stossel replaces Dracolich70. With that, I've covered everyone who wanted to be replaced.
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On April 27 2012 01:16 imallinson wrote:
A case for Draco being scum:
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##Vote: Dracolich70
On April 27 2012 01:16 GMarshal wrote:
Replacement found, Stossel replaces Dracolich70.
Did anyone else laugh incredibly hard at this series of events? I couldn't help it. I laughed only to not cry. XD
Any opinions on people other than Dracolich (Stossel now)? What are your thoughts on Zealos? oneplus? Any other scum reads you have that we should be made aware of?
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Arctic, do you have any response to my thoughts?
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On April 27 2012 01:35 Zealos wrote:
Arctic, do you have any response to my thoughts?
I'm in agreement on Maju insofar as his posting hasn't been solid enough. I don't read it as scummy simply because he's been open with his reads, but it's enough to take notice and expect more -- you'll notice I made this argument earlier today. I'm reserving judgement until I see his response and some solid reads rather than the listy posts he's done so far.
I'm also more or less in agreement on Dr3am. I'm thoroughly looking forward to him putting forth analysis for today about what's gone on so far, especially in light of nreekay's flip.
imallinson is the easy lurker pick. I have no arguments here, even after the post on Dracolich, in which he gave his opinion on one player and nothing else after being gone for 2 days (and it's the same posting technique he used in NMM8, though he's far less active in this game, probably because the average activity level is low enough he thinks he can get away with it).
draco, on the other hand, has shit up the thread plenty, then suddenly disappeared (now we know why the lurky part happened.) I don't have much to say on this until his replacement starts contributing. Right now there's a lot of people out for blood on Draco, so we'll have to see if Stossel can do anything to alleviate that, or if this bandwagon will still gain steam. My main problem with the suspicion on Maju and Draco both is that they pretty much went at each other's throats, which is an odd move for scum to do when neither of them are really up for vote -- it's very likely either double town, or 1 town/1 scum, and highly unlikely that both are scum.
We have 3 replacement players with a grand total of 1 post between them. I'm hopeful they'll be active and contributive.
As for you, It'll take more than one post to get you off my scum radar, but it's a start. Keep up the activity. I'd like your opinion on oneplus's activity so far as well.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 27 2012 01:33 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 01:16 imallinson wrote:
A case for Draco being scum:
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##Vote: Dracolich70 Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 01:16 GMarshal wrote:
Replacement found, Stossel replaces Dracolich70. Did anyone else laugh incredibly hard at this series of events? I couldn't help it. I laughed only to not cry. XD Any opinions on people other than Dracolich (Stossel now)? What are your thoughts on Zealos? oneplus? Any other scum reads you have that we should be made aware of?
Yeah that was unfortunate. It makes my case against him impossible for the replacement to defend.
Zealos I still think is fairly scummy. He hasn't posted much of worth and made a bad case against Maju while defending Yomi. Simmilar to Draco's posting.
Oneplus defends Yomi but has actually contributed a decent amount. Posts his reads and I like his analysis of the voting on Yomi. He is leaning town in my eyes.
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With three replacements in the game, I'm a bit at a loss about what to do now. They need to post, and I'll ask all three of them to do the following:
a) Top 2 scumreads, with explanations that are not only founded on lurking.
b) Top 1 townread, with a well formulated explanation.
c) An overall definition of what sort of behaviour you would see as scummy. Does not necessarily have to overlap with your scumreads.
d) One (or more) passage of text in the game from any player that bothers you specifically, do say why.
I know it sounds a bit awkward to ask that, but the thread is so inactive that I feel that some radical measures are needed. I am going to answer the first point at the end of my post as well, but the others only later since I don't want them to be parroted.
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@imallinson: Your case against Dracolich is basically a rehash of what I have discussed against him. Not worth anything. Also, please explain this sentence to me.
Oneplus defends Yomi but has actually contributed a decent amount.
You imply that defending yomi is a bad thing. What makes you think so?
@insectoceanx: You haven't posted yet since then, but I have asked you to explain to me what you think classifies as scummy as well. And even though the poor guy is deceased now, I want you to give a more in-depth opinion of what made you think that nreekay is town.
@oneplus: I wouldn't hugely object to either a Zealos or a now Stosser (although I'd like to see some posts of the latter first) lynch, but your logic is a bit all over the place. There is not much base on which we can decently guess how scum voted day 1, and I also don't see why Maju would be so much more suspicious if one of them flipped red. In this inactive atmosphere, I don't see too much incentive for scum to bus each other. It's still a possibility of course, but nothing you can build a case on.
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Overall, my strongest suspicions currently lie on imallinson and Zealos. Both have posted a rehashed case only after being called out several times, with the biggest difference that imallinson managed to write more text and less original content. On the other hand, I expected Zealos to post something more substantial, especially after him implying that in the night and even calling his own case decent although it's just basically the same before and he could say the same (posting empty content) for several people.
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You guys: With 16 or so people in the game, suspecting the same people as others, and have similar reasoning cannot be seen as scummy surely. If you want something original then here goes:
You're scum before you use @'s in your posts.
I am doing it right?
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On April 27 2012 04:53 Zealos wrote:
You guys: With 16 or so people in the game, suspecting the same people as others, and have similar reasoning cannot be seen as scummy surely. If you want something original then here goes:
You're scum before you use @'s in your posts.
I am doing it right?
What is this post? What possible town motivation do you have to make this post?
It makes an acceptable point, but it's a terribly aggressive response to the perfectly valid criticism from Dr3am that you made us wait 2 days for a fairly light post.
This is not the productive style of posting that town needs. This is the type of aggressive post that gets you knee-jerk lynched. Stop it.
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EBWOP -- I very nearly put my vote on Zealos from this post alone, but too many times I've seen a lynch go through based on an emotional reaction post, and it ended up being a town who said something in haste. Zealos is still high on my scum list, but I don't want to push it through without a little thought, especially when imallinson is a more valid target right now.
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It was trying to make the point with an example. I didn't intent it to come out that aggressive, my apologies.
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On April 27 2012 05:30 Zealos wrote:
It was trying to make the point with an example. I didn't intent it to come out that aggressive, my apologies.
I think we'll all calm down a bit once the replacements and last straggling lurkers come back and post, so we have something more to work with. Right now we're going in circles with stagnant information, and some fresh perspective might shine some light on things.
As of right now, I can't think of any clear reason not to lynch imallinson tonight.
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EBWOP -- Tonight being 30 hours from now, but point stands. We have people who haven't posted in 30 hours, or at all, so I'd at least like to hear their perspective on the goings-on before putting my vote on.
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Alright, I'm agreed with you on those comments. I also think it's worth making sure we don't spend the day with 2 townies arguing with each other, because at the very worst I wanna force lurkers out the dark.
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Hello.
I'm going to say that trying to get reads through playing catch-up makes a hard job even harder.
I'll go ahead and follow Dr3am's advice and use his format.
a) Top 2 Scumreads
1) imallinson - He votes yomi and finger's Zealos but later builds an entire case on Draco, his former #3, seemingly dropping his suspicions on Zealos altogether. I'm reading initial heat then a misdirect. I didn't want to bring up his lack of posting to avoid using lurking as my main argument, but there's not much else to go on here. Also, at this point I think that his lack of posts are a fairly valid point of suspicion.
2) Zealos - many one-liners, with posts like "He's right, no lynch = really bad.". Not contributing overly much. His reason for being suspicious of draco was "Mainly due to the number of people bringing him up", which smacks of bandwagoning in my mind. He's been active lately and looking to contribute though so I give imallinson my top scumread.
b) Townreads
ArcticFox - He's vigilant but he's not overly aggressive. An overly aggressive play tells me someone is trying to force people to believe he's a Townie. Dr3am's recent post is too aggressive for me to give him top billing, because it seems like he's trying to build dirt on other people before eyes go looking for someone else. I'm not saying I'm giving him a scumread, but that's why he's not my top townie.
c) What is scummy?
As I said earlier, overly aggressive play. A smart player knows we're new, knows we've read the basic strategies and advice. It's only natural that they're going to not want to fit into those roles that general advice dictates they are.
In general, inconsistencies with posts and accusations/arguments that come out of nowhere are what would flag me. A person who begins to take issue with points not relating to the game at hand is either getting too upset or misdirecting on purpose. The later is poor play and the latter is scummy.
d) Quoting nreekay:
"yomi had only the minimum 7/7 votes to be lynched, however. By acting crazy in the beginning, yomi singled himself out;"
nreekay is no longer with us but this is an important point about mindset. No matter how much we think yomi had it coming or deserved what he got, we have to hold that to our chest. Not to emphasize the mistakes we made but to use that so we don't make the same mistakes later. Recognizing and differentiating erratic play from purposefully distracting, misdirecting play is key. I think what it means is we need to be more cautious on bandwagoning in the future. We can hang ourselves by our own rope if we're not careful.
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On April 27 2012 07:09 Stossel wrote:
2) Zealos - many one-liners, with posts like "He's right, no lynch = really bad.". Not contributing overly much. His reason for being suspicious of draco was "Mainly due to the number of people bringing him up", which smacks of bandwagoning in my mind. He's been active lately and looking to contribute though so I give imallinson my top scumread.
I really feel like this is beating a dead horse at this point. Yeah, I was super annoying at the start, granted, and have admitted it being a case of my ego getting too big, but if people wanna keep accusing me they're gonna need something new.
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Just got home from work, grabbing some food and catching up on all the posts, more to come soon.
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Stossel -- welcome to the game! Love the first post. Easy question for you, to get you into the flow -- your predecessor seemed to have many, many, MANY things to say about Maju. What are your thoughts on him?
Now, I think we've given people ample time to show up and be useful. I'm more than ready to lock in my vote.
##Vote: imallinson
He's almost made it his job to be useless to town. Had absolutely no opinion on anybody in town in his big summary post ("seems town, seems scum, null read, might be scum" etc etc -- you can check his filter and read it, it's not hard to find in his 4 posts), except for yomi, who he bandwagoned onto very easily. He had an FoS on Zealos after that, then decided to make his 3rd post on....Dracolich? He has volunteered no other opinions seperate from when I asked him directly about Zealos and oneplus, and his post there was STILL the "leaning town" and "fairly scummy" non-commital posting style he's done.
In short, he's posted little, and what he's posted says nothing. He's scum and needs to hang.
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@insectoceanx: You haven't posted yet since then, but I have asked you to explain to me what you think classifies as scummy as well. And even though the poor guy is deceased now, I want you to give a more in-depth opinion of what made you think that nreekay is town.
What has been sticking out to me as scummy play is people who are either not posting any content or the content they post is mostly fluff an example of this has been Maju's posting.
As far an nreekay his posts were good and I agreed with most of the things he brought up at this point in the game he just seemed more likely town.
I have 2 main suspects as mafia right now.
1 Maju
He has been doing nothing but defending himself the entire game and has never contributed anything
@MAJU: If you are not scum post something of significance giving your top 2 candidates for scum and give them something to answer to. Don't defend yourself just post something about someone else.
2 Imallinson
Already suspicious of him now he is defending Maju and voting draco, who just got switched out. His first vote was for yomi and then his very next post is voting for draco. Imallinson you posted this in your one post where you said very little about everyone
Dracolich70
I'm finding the defence of yomi and attack on maju, following yomi and Zealos, fairly suspicious. He's my # 3 scum read behind yomi and Zealos.
@ImallinsonWell yomi rolled green so why are you still so suspicious of Draco? I feel Maju is likely scum and you are also defending him. Post something that will make me feel otherwise.
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On April 27 2012 10:07 insectoceanx wrote:
@insectoceanx: You haven't posted yet since then, but I have asked you to explain to me what you think classifies as scummy as well. And even though the poor guy is deceased now, I want you to give a more in-depth opinion of what made you think that nreekay is town.What has been sticking out to me as scummy play is people who are either not posting any content or the content they post is mostly fluff an example of this has been Maju's posting. As far an nreekay his posts were good and I agreed with most of the things he brought up at this point in the game he just seemed more likely town. I have 2 main suspects as mafia right now. 1 Maju He has been doing nothing but defending himself the entire game and has never contributed anything @MAJU: If you are not scum post something of significance giving your top 2 candidates for scum and give them something to answer to. Don't defend yourself just post something about someone else. 2 Imallinson Already suspicious of him now he is defending Maju and voting draco, who just got switched out. His first vote was for yomi and then his very next post is voting for draco. Imallinson you posted this in your one post where you said very little about everyone Show nested quote +Dracolich70
I'm finding the defence of yomi and attack on maju, following yomi and Zealos, fairly suspicious. He's my # 3 scum read behind yomi and Zealos.
@ImallinsonWell yomi rolled green so why are you still so suspicious of Draco? I feel Maju is likely scum and you are also defending him. Post something that will make me feel otherwise.
+ Show Spoiler +insectoceanx - Unsure. Generally thoughtful posts that don't shy away from suspicion or accusations when needed. This would usually be characteristic of a townie.. I personally did not see his last minute vote for yomi as suspicious as he had earlier posted his own suspicions of yomi but nreekay made a pretty good case against him I think. I would like to hear his response to what nreekay said.
St. Daniel/ Gossemerr - Completely unsure though I thought his point against Dr3am didn't make very much sense.
Dracholich70 - I am slightly suspicious of Dracolich. At the start of the game he was subtly discouraging voting and was mostly recapping instead of posting his thoughts. Later he revealed his suspicions of me and yomi. This also may hint toward mafia as we now now that yomi was innocent and I at least know that I am a townie. Though I do have my suspicions, dracholich would not be my first candidate as mafia. Once he, like I am doing now, posts his opinions on people other than me, I may be able to draw new conclusions.
oneplus - I initially thought he may be mafia but my suspicions have somewhat abated with his last post giving thoughts on various players. I do still wonder why his posts at the start were relatively content free. Not completely convinced he is town but not too suspicious either. My initial suspicion of him protecting mafia quite obviously fell apart with yomi ending up townie.
mutant - I see him as town, not afraid to give readings and accusations. His accusation of yomi seemed well reasoned so I have no reason to think mutant simply was a mafia who wanted to kill yomi.
ArcticFox - Similar read to mutant but Fox has more posts and thought making him seem even less mafia like.
Zealos - Really didn't post any reads or content at all except for one post accusing me. He also never responded to my response to his allegations. His play so far has seemed quite scummy due to the lack of real content. The only thing that makes me think he might not be mafia is that he did not vote for yomi. If he was mafia and did this he left a very real chance that yomi would live. I am still suspicious of him however as there is the chance both him and insect are mafia and knew that only one of them had to vote yomi to ensure a lynch while the other could vote something else to avoid suspicion. One of my higher rate suspects for mafia.
ForTheDr3am - Once again the question asking, analytical type. I have no reason to suspect him thus far.
imallinson - Has been a lurker and only brought up accusations that were fairly common at the time. Didn't bring that much new stuff to the table. I am suspicious of him.
There are my reads form yesterday, I'll post new ideas given the further posting soon.
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I already read that and I don't see a single solid read or anything useful on that, its just a bunch of oh im slightly this or that. I am still waiting for a reason as your not mafia and you have not contributed anything of use. Again don't defend yourself just post a SOLID read on your top 2 candidates and give them something to answer to.
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Heading to bed. I really hope to hear from our other new members by the time I wake up. Goss has been lurking for 2 days, and we've yet to hear from Ydriel. Stossel, enjoy reading the thread and if anything else jumps out at you, feel free to chime in. There's 3 scum we need to find, after all.
I encourage everyone to start getting your votes in. We're over halfway through the day, and there's been some talking, but no voting. My vote's set and unlikely to change unless someone can really come up with a good reason why we shouldn't target imallinson.
If you have a different read you'd rather see lynched than imallinson, post your cases and lay your votes tonight. With 10 of us alive, we need 6 to agree to a lynch, and 3 of the remaining players are scum -- we have to be near consensus on a scum target to push the lynch through.
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imallinson
Imallinson has been heavily lurking this game. With 5 days of play gone he has only made 5 posts. Of these, the first post essentially mentioned two players and said that he was unsure of either of them. This added nothing to the game. His first act of any gravity was to vote for yomi but this vote was one of the last votes cast and yomi was already the most likely choice to get lynched.At this point voting for yomi was an extremely safe move for mafia as it was a common choice and a townie would be lynched. Now that we know yomi was townie this vote becomes more suspicious. Alone it might not be much but combined with the lurking and lack of solid posting it becomes suspicious. Looking back at the accusation against yomi, it initially seems to have content but reeally the only thing he used against yomi was
He then tries to defend his vote for maju and doesn't do very well at it. "Why not" isn't a sufficient answer and I'm not buying the pressure vote excuse. It was such a baseless accusation that maju would never felt any real pressure. Again this feels like someone trying to look like he is contributing while not doing anything of the sort.
I personally see this accusation:
The asking everyone to post their previous games is strange. If you actually wanted to read through people's previous games you would just go and do it, especially given that the people in this game will have at most 2 other games. This seems to me to be trying to look like he is contributing.
as rather weak.
Imallinson recently contributed new ideas with his voting for Dracho (Gossemerr). We can see though that all the information used against Dracho in this post was posted before imallinson's initial list of reads. Why, imallinson, was none of this observed earlier? Also, Dracho was initially imallinson's third choice for scum behind yomi and Zealos. After yomi died Dracho suddenly moved up to first choice over Zealos with no explanation why his suspicions over Zealos diminished. After imallinsons first content filled post he finger of suspicions' Zealos while all the evidence that he later uses to vote Dracholich has already been posted. Also, he posted a lot more evidence against Dracho then against yomi. Assuming allin read everyone's posts carefully, his initial vote should have been for Dracho with yomi as a second choice. Why did that not happen imallinson?
I think there is a chance that both Zealos and imallinson are both scum and that imallinson has been keeping Zealos as a second choice to avid suspicion then voted for townies.
Zealos
Similar to imallinson, Zealos has a lack of useful at the start before voting for me. Voting for me is not in itself suspicious. However, when I responded to his accusations he did not bother responding back. Unlike Dracho, who seemed to actually care about his words, Zealos just abandoned his initial accusations. Now his accusation of me is that I post little content, something that he did not mention at all in his initial post against me. The only reason not to rebut on my response to his accusations would be if I thoroughly convinced him I am not mafia. This obviously did not happen as he is still suspicious of me. I think that his initial vote on me was an attempt to start a movement against a townie. Once he realised his arguments were flawed, he decided to back off and never comment on them again but to still say he's suspicious of me so he is not questioned about a sudden change of heart. Also, I forgot to mention that though aggressiveness and one liners at the start of a game can be explained due to ego, a lack of useful posting cannot.
These two are my reads as mafia. I am as yet unsure whom I want to vote for.
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I did not think of ArcticFox's point that we need essentially a consensus on voting to get a mafia member lynched.
##Vote: imallinson
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I agree we need consensus to do this. Anyone who does not agree/imallinson lets hear from you.
##Vote: imallinson
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I'm fine with lynching a lurker
##ViteL imallinson
@Maju, I didn't see where you initially responded to my argument, and must have missed it, my apologies, however, coming up with a 2nd argument against someone is to add to the initial case.
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Surprisingly many of you has started to vote for immallinson but still think that zealos chances of being scum is quite high and have him inside you scumlist. I got no idea why why Zealos is always in the FoS list and scumlist and no one going to vote for him. I can see that immallinson is not contributing much and lurk pretty much. But same for Mutant suppose to be Ydriel now who has not post a single thing after the replacement. Insectoceanx has also coming out recently and been lurking pretty much but he don't sound so scummy for me yet.
@Arctic, You are my no.1 favourite townread. Mind to explain why Immallinson is a better lynch than zealos?
##Vote: Zealos
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Because at the moment the only remaining case is that at the very start I acted like a dick. I really don't see why I'm your vote when imallioson is the better lynch.
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On April 27 2012 15:43 oneplus wrote:
Surprisingly many of you has started to vote for immallinson but still think that zealos chances of being scum is quite high and have him inside you scumlist. I got no idea why why Zealos is always in the FoS list and scumlist and no one going to vote for him. I can see that immallinson is not contributing much and lurk pretty much. But same for Mutant suppose to be Ydriel now who has not post a single thing after the replacement. Insectoceanx has also coming out recently and been lurking pretty much but he don't sound so scummy for me yet.
@Arctic, You are my no.1 favourite townread. Mind to explain why Immallinson is a better lynch than zealos?
##Vote: Zealos
I would also like to hear why zealos is your vote as opposed to imallinson. We need 6 of 7 townies if mafia does not vote for mafia. So if you are going to vote for zealos convince us as to why he is a better vote than imallinson.
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On April 27 2012 15:40 Zealos wrote:
I'm fine with lynching a lurker
##ViteL imallinson
@Maju, I didn't see where you initially responded to my argument, and must have missed it, my apologies, however, coming up with a 2nd argument against someone is to add to the initial case.
I am assuming you meant vote: and and not viteL. Any other reasoning behind why you want to vote imallinson other than he is a lurker? What else has stuck out for you?
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On April 27 2012 15:43 oneplus wrote:
Surprisingly many of you has started to vote for immallinson but still think that zealos chances of being scum is quite high and have him inside you scumlist. I got no idea why why Zealos is always in the FoS list and scumlist and no one going to vote for him. I can see that immallinson is not contributing much and lurk pretty much. But same for Mutant suppose to be Ydriel now who has not post a single thing after the replacement. Insectoceanx has also coming out recently and been lurking pretty much but he don't sound so scummy for me yet.
@Arctic, You are my no.1 favourite townread. Mind to explain why Immallinson is a better lynch than zealos?
##Vote: Zealos
Along with most other people, I'm fairly convinced that both are scum. imallinson has basically given up on posting anything, so keeping him alive serves no purpose. It's not just that he lurks, it's that when he finally does post, the posts have 0 content.
Zealos, on the other hand, is still posting -- mind you, he still insists that the only thing that marked him as scummy was his aggression at the beginning, and feels no need to explain why over the past 3 days he's come up with a single list of reads that really didn't bring any new information to the table. He also continues to be aggressive without actually posting anything but continual over-defensive posts saying he's sick of being pointed out as scummy.
As mentioned, I could possibly be talked into Zealos today and imallinson tomorrow instead, but nobody's really brought up a good reason why we should do so. To me, and judging by most of the posting I've read, imallinson is the slam dunk today, and then we can hang Zealos tomorrow.
So let me turn that around on you -- you don't even have imallinson in your list of lynch candidates for today. Why is that? Do you believe imallinson is actually town? Or do you have a null read on him? Or is there some other reason we shouldn't hang him today?
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I've told you my thoughts, what else would you like to know from me?
I want to help and contribute, but there's only so much you can analyse till new info emerges.
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There are still too many lurkers here. While mutant has made at least one decent post, his replacement Ydriel hasn't posted at all yet. Gossemerr has posted this meanwhile, which somehow slipped my eye:
+ Show Spoiler +Hi everyone. I will get caught up to speed and be posting tomorrow. I did read a little bit though, and just want to comment on this:
On April 25 2012 11:03 ArcticFox wrote:
*sigh* gg As promised, I'm extremely disappointed in your Day 1. I see your thought process, but it's too antagonistic to get people to trust you.
Unfortunately, the result of that is that we've lost an extremely active townie, in a game where most people are lurking like it's the Brood War.
Going mostly silent for the Night. I'll post something close to the deadline, in case I'm shot.
Please don't do this. Post as much as you can. We need to be active if we want to make an accurate assessment on people's alignments. NOBODY should be worried about dying or saying anything that might get them killed. An active town discussion is what we need. Not posting allows the scum to just sit around without having to contribute.
So, lets get the discussion's, analyses, and POST-based cases going starting this night.
He encouraged people (and specifically ArcticFox, out of all possibilities) to post more, promised to post the day after, and follows it up with no post at all. I think that is the first time I saw a lurker calling out people to post more, and it strikes me as extremely weird, as if he saw how easy it is to survive while lurking.
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Between Zealos and imallinson, one thought I had is that Zealos clearly isn't disinterested in the game - however, his main interest is insisting that suspicions against him are unfounded. The bandwagon against imallinson is going too fast currently. I did say that he was one of my prime suspects too, as his posts really looked as if he pretended to contribute, but now we are comparing that to people who don't even do that (and to a very defensive Zealos). I really want to hear from those.
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I really genuinely want to know what the current suspicions against me are. I may sound like a broken record, but I'd quite like to clear my name for future posts. I gather it's just from a lack of content so far?
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On April 28 2012 04:18 ForTheDr3am wrote:
Between Zealos and imallinson, one thought I had is that Zealos clearly isn't disinterested in the game - however, his main interest is insisting that suspicions against him are unfounded. The bandwagon against imallinson is going too fast currently. I did say that he was one of my prime suspects too, as his posts really looked as if he pretended to contribute, but now we are comparing that to people who don't even do that (and to a very defensive Zealos). I really want to hear from those.
Our replacements have yet to vote. They're 4 hours away from a modkill. If they're all town, it's an autoloss if that happens, unless the imallinson lynch goes through. Which also won't happen if they're all town.
We need 2 more votes to push the imallinson lynch through. imallinson won't vote for himself (and likely won't show up anyway), so that leaves Dr3am, oneplus, and (hopefully) the replacements. We're almost certainly hitting scum with this lynch. I don't see the downside to an imallinson lynch, unless your read is neutral/town on him. If he's scum to you, it should be an easy lynch -- I'm unsure of why it matters that we lynch Zealos first.
For what it's worth, Zealos is at the very least active. It's enough to put a *hint* of doubt to his scumminess in my mind. A further reason I'm more comfortable with an imallinson lynch. Also the fact that with 4 hours left and the activity level of the thread, a change to a Zealos lynch at this point would be impossible.
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On April 28 2012 07:13 Zealos wrote:
I really genuinely want to know what the current suspicions against me are. I may sound like a broken record, but I'd quite like to clear my name for future posts. I gather it's just from a lack of content so far?
You do sound like a broken record. I could not be more clear about this. You have no content, and your tone goes back and forth between abrasive/abusive and friendly townie, plus you didn't post anything for 2 straight days, saying "oh the content's coming, oh I'm just waiting for deadline....no wait, I'm actually asleep at deadline," then when the grand post came around, it said nothing new, and you've made no action to question people since then, only asking our opinions of your opinions, and bristling every time someone mentions you're scum.
How exactly are we supposed to react to that kind of player?
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EBWOP -- Let's approach this another way. You're up for am imallinson lynch. Who's your #2? You've made 2 half-cases on Maju and have an FoS on Draco, but I don't know who you'd rather see hang. Is it one of them or is it someone else? And why?
Also what, to you, constitutes scummy behavior, if it's not lurking hard, posting no content, and waffling back and forth between being helpful or "being a dick" as you say.
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EBWOP #2 -- Using lurking as a scumtell at this point is more or less useless with so many lurkers, but with the information we have so far, I still have very strong scumreads based on other factors -- basically the uselessness of the posting that *has* been done. Without using lurkiness as a crutch alone, figure out who's your best scum.
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On April 27 2012 10:03 ArcticFox wrote:
Stossel -- welcome to the game! Love the first post. Easy question for you, to get you into the flow -- your predecessor seemed to have many, many, MANY things to say about Maju. What are your thoughts on him?
Taking a closer look at Maju's filter, my biggest suspicion would be that he reacts to any bit of heat. He responded vigorously to draco's accusation but I didn't really see that draco's case picking up steam among everyone else. I wouldn't use this alone as my basis for a scumread though, and I'm leaning more toward nervous townie at the moment.
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On April 28 2012 07:19 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 07:13 Zealos wrote:
I really genuinely want to know what the current suspicions against me are. I may sound like a broken record, but I'd quite like to clear my name for future posts. I gather it's just from a lack of content so far? You do sound like a broken record. I could not be more clear about this. 1. You have no content, and your 2. tone goes back and forth between abrasive/abusive and friendly townie, 3. plus you didn't post anything for 2 straight days, saying "oh the content's coming, oh I'm just waiting for deadline....no wait, I'm actually asleep at deadline," then when the grand post came around, 4. it said nothing new, and 5. you've made no action to question people since then, only asking our opinions of your opinions, and 6. bristling every time someone mentions you're scum. How exactly are we supposed to react to that kind of player?
1. I have more content than a few people at least, so that shouldn't put me too high up top.
2. Me being human.
3. RL comes before Mafia, sorry.
4. When you say nothing new, you just mean I agree with some people. I said before, in a game as short of this, it's absurd to think I won't end up agreeing with people on some points.
5. I've wanted to focus on clearing my own name first.
6. I fail to see how this is a scum trait at all. It seems pretty irrelevant. Scum don't want people to think they are scum, but neither do town players.
It seems all you've done recently is question and complain about me, along with half the thread (The other half attacking Immalision)
So I want to ask everyone, if me and Imallision became immortal for the day, who gets your vote, and give reasons. Anyone posting a name without any thoughts with it becomes super suspicious. Obviously I don't want to be a hypocrite, so I will be choosing: Stossel
His first and only post since replacing in involves regurgitating arguments that people have made time and time again, and not to mention - Pre-replacement, he was under a lot of pressure, and then out'ed for seemingly no reason. I don't know if this sort of meta argument should be used, but it certainly seems... odd. Not enough for me to lynch in front of Imallision, as I would like to give the new guy a chance to at least give some reads and what not, but he takes 2nd place by a cinch.
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On April 28 2012 07:25 ArcticFox wrote:
EBWOP -- Let's approach this another way. You're up for am imallinson lynch. Who's your #2? You've made 2 half-cases on Maju and have an FoS on Draco, but I don't know who you'd rather see hang. Is it one of them or is it someone else? And why?
haha, ninja'd
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On April 27 2012 21:19 insectoceanx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 15:40 Zealos wrote:
I'm fine with lynching a lurker
##ViteL imallinson
@Maju, I didn't see where you initially responded to my argument, and must have missed it, my apologies, however, coming up with a 2nd argument against someone is to add to the initial case. I am assuming you meant vote: and and not viteL. Any other reasoning behind why you want to vote imallinson other than he is a lurker? What else has stuck out for you?
Wow, just noticed this, wtf? o.O
Yeah, I meant vote, and not really, but I think we gotta lynch him due to the pure lack of posing.
Even if he isn't scum, it'll send a neat little message to anyone else that thinks they can slip under the radar.
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Oh and, ##Vote: Imallinson
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On April 28 2012 07:47 Zealos wrote:
Even if he isn't scum, it'll send a neat little message to anyone else that thinks they can slip under the radar.
Not sure how it sends that message when half the thread is doing it.
We lynch to hit scum, not send messages.
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I meant it as a side effect >.>
I just think it's a much better scum hunting environment when people are all posting actively, rather than watching the townie's squabble.
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On April 28 2012 07:36 Zealos wrote:
It seems all you've done recently is question and complain about me, along with half the thread (The other half attacking Immalision)
How can accuse me of only attacking you when I've called out EVERY lurker and asked questions of every single person who's posted in the past 3 days? O.o The only reason you feel like you're being tunneled is because you keep saying that ONE post cleared your name. It didn't. It made you seem a *little* less scummy. Then you attacked dream with some sarcastic bullshit when he made a valid point against you. That makes you more scummy. Then you kept defending yourself, badly, without asking any new questions, cluttering up the thread with worthless shit. That makes you MORE scummy.
It's frustrating how much you just flat out don't get it, and I almost wish I'd voted you instead of imallinson when I had the chance. I have to wait for tomorrow for your lynch now and keep hearing you repeat the same thing over and over and over.
My 3rd scum read behind you and imallinson is either oneplus or insectoceanx. Both have given me a lot of reason to be suspicious of them, and I outlined why in my post at the end of Night 1. If I had to pull the trigger on one of them at this exact moment, it would be insectoceanx. He's able to slip by posting trash that nobody's really looking at because the only conversation that's getting had is how scummy you still are.
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Alright well, I think I'll go back to lurking. People seem safer there, as opposed to the classic - More Activity = More Scummy mindset that occupies newbie games. The only reason that I keep defending myself, is that you keep attacking me. I have to say though, the people who don't respond when you call them out are much more likely to be town and we should all use them as a shining example. In fact, why would a townie ever even post in this game? It's so scummy afterall.
(Yeah, I'm back to being aggressive)
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Ofc, me being aggressive is a mafia trait, not a character one, so you should totally vote for me and not worry about anything else.
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On April 28 2012 08:13 Zealos wrote:
Alright well, I think I'll go back to lurking. People seem safer there, as opposed to the classic - More Activity = More Scummy mindset that occupies newbie games. The only reason that I keep defending myself, is that you keep attacking me. I have to say though, the people who don't respond when you call them out are much more likely to be town and we should all use them as a shining example. In fact, why would a townie ever even post in this game? It's so scummy afterall.
(Yeah, I'm back to being aggressive)
And it's these pointless gems that make you scum. If you're town, you're not playing to win at all.
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You really don't get it at all do you? It's irritating running round in circles with you while everyone else sits back with popcorn in hand. So yeah, those posts don't help town at all, but I'm annoyed, so I'm not in the mindset to care right about now.
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On April 28 2012 08:19 Zealos wrote:
You really don't get it at all do you? It's irritating running round in circles with you while everyone else sits back with popcorn in hand. So yeah, those posts don't help town at all, but I'm annoyed, so I'm not in the mindset to care right about now.
Then go somewhere, wash your face, relax, and come back when you're useful.
If you're actually town, giving us more ways to think you're scum is ridiculous.
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On April 28 2012 08:14 Zealos wrote:
Ofc, me being aggressive is a mafia trait, not a character one, so you should totally vote for me and not worry about anything else.
Do you *really* want me to go meta on you? Because I read your Mafia LI, where you acted exactly like this, and your GoT, where you were actually useful.
I can go into detail, if you really want this.
I'd prefer to end the distraction already myself.
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EBWOP -- Where you were scum in LI and blue in GoT
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Ok. Here is my current mindset
Whatever I posted gets scrutinised to the point where it makes me mafia. It genuinely feels like whatever I post is another way to think I am scum. I understand the mindset of pressuring an opponent till he cracks and makes a scumslip, but atm I am 95% sure you are town, so I can't pressure you to make you slip, so all I can try to do is convince you (And the rest of town) that I am on your side. The scumteam can just sit there laughing at us, ready to kill the most useful posters during the night.
So here is what I propose/have decided. Any more arguing between us will not promote a town environment. I am going to stop trying to defend myself from you until at least some of the lurkers have posted their thoughts on the current discussion. As it stands, most of town are voting Imallision. What do you think about that Imallision? Other towns, do you think I am scum? Give reasons, make arguments, and tell us who you want dead. To the 2 new players, why are you not scum? And if you're not, why are you not contributing *anything* not to mention things of use?
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On April 28 2012 08:29 Zealos wrote:
Ok. Here is my current mindset
So here is what I propose/have decided. Any more arguing between us will not promote a town environment. I am going to stop trying to defend myself from you until at least some of the lurkers have posted their thoughts on the current discussion. As it stands, most of town are voting Imallision. What do you think about that Imallision? Other towns, do you think I am scum? Give reasons, make arguments, and tell us who you want dead. To the 2 new players, why are you not scum? And if you're not, why are you not contributing *anything* not to mention things of use?
Thank God, this is all I asked you to do from the start.
It doesn't take much to seem town. All you have to do is not act like scum. This kind of thing is a GREAT start.
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On April 28 2012 07:47 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2012 21:19 insectoceanx wrote:On April 27 2012 15:40 Zealos wrote:
I'm fine with lynching a lurker
##ViteL imallinson
@Maju, I didn't see where you initially responded to my argument, and must have missed it, my apologies, however, coming up with a 2nd argument against someone is to add to the initial case. I am assuming you meant vote: and and not viteL. Any other reasoning behind why you want to vote imallinson other than he is a lurker? What else has stuck out for you? Wow, just noticed this, wtf? o.O Yeah, I meant vote, and not really, but I think we gotta lynch him due to the pure lack of posing. Even if he isn't scum, it'll send a neat little message to anyone else that thinks they can slip under the radar.
By this do you mean that absolutely the only reason for your vote is lurking or do you agree with other posters accusations of imallinson?
@Maju, I didn't see where you initially responded to my argument, and must have missed it, my apologies, however, coming up with a 2nd argument against someone is to add to the initial case.
Ok, I guess the part of my accusation corresponding to this can be ignored.
The part about you not contributing much content at the start still stands though. It is not explainable by ego. And why the sudden return to aggressive posting? I know you're being accused but there's no need to be acrimonious.
You do sound like a broken record. I could not be more clear about this. 1. You have no content, and your 2. tone goes back and forth between abrasive/abusive and friendly townie, 3. plus you didn't post anything for 2 straight days, saying "oh the content's coming, oh I'm just waiting for deadline....no wait, I'm actually asleep at deadline," then when the grand post came around, 4. it said nothing new, and 5. you've made no action to question people since then, only asking our opinions of your opinions, and 6. bristling every time someone mentions you're scum.
1. I have more content than a few people at least, so that shouldn't put me too high up top.
2. Me being human.
3. RL comes before Mafia, sorry.
4. When you say nothing new, you just mean I agree with some people. I said before, in a game as short of this, it's absurd to think I won't end up agreeing with people on some points.
5. I've wanted to focus on clearing my own name first.
6. I fail to see how this is a scum trait at all. It seems pretty irrelevant. Scum don't want people to think they are scum, but neither do town players.
1. The people you have more content than have barely posted at all. You have posted many times but still have little content.
2. Everyone else is human as well yet few have the tone swings you do. This is even further highlighted by your recent posts. If a post was aggressive why didn't you just wait a bit and calm down? There's no need to respond immediately.
4. You could both agree with people and post new content. You have not done the latter.
5. Once again, you could do both.
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1. So I have got more content than them? Good, thats what I thought.
2. Humans are not all equal. Look at my GoT mafia game. I was blue, and was just as *Volatile*
4. I don't have a great deal more to add. I've written about Draco/Stossel, which has new stuff to add to it.
5.. It's not awfully useful posting new content if everyone thinks I am scum. The most useful thing a town player can do is prove his innocence (Straight out of Ace's guide IIRC)
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On April 28 2012 08:37 Zealos wrote:
5.. It's not awfully useful posting new content if everyone thinks I am scum. The most useful thing a town player can do is prove his innocence (Straight out of Ace's guide IIRC)
Also straight out of Ace's guide, the best way to prove your innocence is to hunt scum.
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Oh, and yes, as it stands I'm voting Imallinson due to his lurking. He's taken it to a somewhat extreme level, and is useless to the town whether he flips red or not.
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On April 28 2012 08:38 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 08:37 Zealos wrote:
5.. It's not awfully useful posting new content if everyone thinks I am scum. The most useful thing a town player can do is prove his innocence (Straight out of Ace's guide IIRC) Also straight out of Ace's guide, the best way to prove your innocence is to hunt scum.
Fair enough, I should have focussed on that more. I'll bear that in mind. However, I think my scumlist for now is pretty clear.
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On April 28 2012 07:36 Zealos wrote:
So I want to ask everyone, if me and Imallision became immortal for the day, who gets your vote, and give reasons. Anyone posting a name without any thoughts with it becomes super suspicious. Obviously I don't want to be a hypocrite, so I will be choosing: Stossel
His first and only post since replacing in involves regurgitating arguments that people have made time and time again, and not to mention - Pre-replacement, he was under a lot of pressure, and then out'ed for seemingly no reason. I don't know if this sort of meta argument should be used, but it certainly seems... odd. Not enough for me to lynch in front of Imallision, as I would like to give the new guy a chance to at least give some reads and what not, but he takes 2nd place by a cinch.
Stossel has actually posted, and posted useful things, which is more than I can say for the other two lurkers. imallinson's one post when he came back before he disappeared was to make a case on Dracolich, then disappear. Stossel's pretty strongly accusing imallinson as his #1 read (has yet to vote though for some reason). With a fairly light amount of suspicion on Dracolich even before imallinson made his case, what would be the point of them targeting each other in this situation if they're scumbuddies? It doesn't make a great deal of sense imo.
Right now, Stossel is neutral at best to me. Dracolich was only under pressure from Maju (and imallinson, but it's hard to count that if he's your scum target), so to say he was under heavy pressure is a bit of a stretch.
What do you think of oneplus and insectoceanx? And are you still reading Maju as scummy? It would be really hard to look back at Maju and Draco's filters and read them as scum together.
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EBWOP -- which is more than I can say for the other two replacements
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Sorry, I really really don't have time to make any more cases tonight, I'm just about to go to bed, but I will post thoughts on them both in the morning. I will say on Stossel, that it isn't so much I find Stossel scummy, but more I find Draco very scummy, but like I said, I wanna see more from Stossel before I would be willing to put my vote on him.
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Frankly, I don't like voting with so many people still not having posted anything. I don't really feel like choosing imallinson for his lurking alone is a particularly strong reason and it bothers me that everybody that votes for him just says that. At the risk of repeating myself, I originally found him more suspicious than others because his posts (especially his latest post) had the most fluff, giving me the impression that they were made to pretend to contribute. Now he apparently completely disappeared together with a bunch of others though, and I have to wonder how much that notion of mine is actually worth. Still, I have to make a decision now and I would rather take a shot at him than risk a no-lynch.
#Vote: imallinson
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[QUOTE]On April 28 2012 08:52 ArcticFox wrote:
[QUOTE]On April 28 2012 07:36 Zealos wrote:What do you think of oneplus and insectoceanx? And are you still reading Maju as scummy? It would be really hard to look back at Maju and Draco's filters and read them as scum together.[/QUOTE]
Ok, I'll bite anyway. On Maju - I think that my original points stand, however, I am learning more towards bad town, rather than as a scumread. I'd like to see him make a case against his #1 Scumread, but for now, there are better targets.
Insectoceanx: Looking back over his filter, looks very townie to begin with, due to his frequent and useful posts, however, he really seems to be posting less and less, but that could just because we have dominated discussion. I think his point to Oneplus is good, which leads me on to
Oneplus: If he wants to vote for me, fine, but he needs to work on convincing people, rather than just wasting his vote. I feel like he posts a lot of *stuff* but a lot of it is him repeating himself over the course of the game. However, I think he is mainly just bad town again.
[QUOTE]On April 27 2012 00:52 oneplus wrote:
Hey ArcticFox I doubt english is not my mother tongue which make you can't understand me. I am trying to bring a new topic out for everyone to discuss which is lynch Draco / zealos / me out today beacause it is so highly possible 1 scum among us I want to discuss about what you guys think about this suggestion and not pointing at this guy post alot so he is helpful, that guy post a little so he is a scum. I want to bring more concrete information out.
[/QUOTE]
This however, is a pretty scummy thing to do, where he says "He must be scum if this guy flips town" It gives him an excuse to get 2 mislynches off. However, with himself and Draco on the list, it becomes more of a "This is a scummy thing to do" rather than a "This makes him a scum player" sort of thing.
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On April 28 2012 08:52 ArcticFox wrote:
What do you think of oneplus and insectoceanx? And are you still reading Maju as scummy? It would be really hard to look back at Maju and Draco's filters and read them as scum together.
Ok, I'll bite anyway. On Maju - I think that my original points stand, however, I am learning more towards bad town, rather than as a scumread. I'd like to see him make a case against his #1 Scumread, but for now, there are better targets.
Insectoceanx: Looking back over his filter, looks very townie to begin with, due to his frequent and useful posts, however, he really seems to be posting less and less, but that could just because we have dominated discussion. I think his point to Oneplus is good, which leads me on to
Oneplus: If he wants to vote for me, fine, but he needs to work on convincing people, rather than just wasting his vote. I feel like he posts a lot of *stuff* but a lot of it is him repeating himself over the course of the game. However, I think he is mainly just bad town again.
On April 27 2012 00:52 oneplus wrote:
Hey ArcticFox I doubt english is not my mother tongue which make you can't understand me. I am trying to bring a new topic out for everyone to discuss which is lynch Draco / zealos / me out today beacause it is so highly possible 1 scum among us I want to discuss about what you guys think about this suggestion and not pointing at this guy post alot so he is helpful, that guy post a little so he is a scum. I want to bring more concrete information out.
This however, is a pretty scummy thing to do, where he says "He must be scum if this guy flips town" It gives him an excuse to get 2 mislynches off. However, with himself and Draco on the list, it becomes more of a "This is a scummy thing to do" rather than a "This makes him a scum player" sort of thing.
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Ok, I'll bite anyway. On Maju - I think that my original points stand, however, I am learning more towards bad town, rather than as a scumread. I'd like to see him make a case against his #1 Scumread, but for now, there are better targets.
On April 27 2012 11:32 MajuGarzett wrote:imallinsonImallinson has been heavily lurking this game. With 5 days of play gone he has only made 5 posts. Of these, the first post essentially mentioned two players and said that he was unsure of either of them. This added nothing to the game. His first act of any gravity was to vote for yomi but this vote was one of the last votes cast and yomi was already the most likely choice to get lynched.At this point voting for yomi was an extremely safe move for mafia as it was a common choice and a townie would be lynched. Now that we know yomi was townie this vote becomes more suspicious. Alone it might not be much but combined with the lurking and lack of solid posting it becomes suspicious. Looking back at the accusation against yomi, it initially seems to have content but reeally the only thing he used against yomi was Show nested quote +He then tries to defend his vote for maju and doesn't do very well at it. "Why not" isn't a sufficient answer and I'm not buying the pressure vote excuse. It was such a baseless accusation that maju would never felt any real pressure. Again this feels like someone trying to look like he is contributing while not doing anything of the sort. I personally see this accusation: Show nested quote +The asking everyone to post their previous games is strange. If you actually wanted to read through people's previous games you would just go and do it, especially given that the people in this game will have at most 2 other games. This seems to me to be trying to look like he is contributing. as rather weak. Imallinson recently contributed new ideas with his voting for Dracho (Gossemerr). We can see though that all the information used against Dracho in this post was posted before imallinson's initial list of reads. Why, imallinson, was none of this observed earlier? Also, Dracho was initially imallinson's third choice for scum behind yomi and Zealos. After yomi died Dracho suddenly moved up to first choice over Zealos with no explanation why his suspicions over Zealos diminished. After imallinsons first content filled post he finger of suspicions' Zealos while all the evidence that he later uses to vote Dracholich has already been posted. Also, he posted a lot more evidence against Dracho then against yomi. Assuming allin read everyone's posts carefully, his initial vote should have been for Dracho with yomi as a second choice. Why did that not happen imallinson? I think there is a chance that both Zealos and imallinson are both scum and that imallinson has been keeping Zealos as a second choice to avid suspicion then voted for townies.
Basically lurking, insubstantial posting, and strange accusations.
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5 minutes to deadline! 1 vote keeping imallinson alive! Will we see the rare triple modkill in a mini game? Will we see a hero last minute lynch vote? Tune in at 10pm to find out!
Ze suspense, it is killing me.
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On April 25 2012 19:19 nreekay324 wrote:yomi flipped town, confirming his claim that he was making a play to get real discussion going. yomi had only the minimum 7/7 votes to be lynched, however. By acting crazy in the beginning, yomi singled himself out; as my first theory of Maju getting thrown under the bus is wrong (maybe), it seems more likely yomi was to be that easy target to get bussed. Some notes on yomi votes, may be more useful later in the game then now; + Show Spoiler +0-1 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
This seems highly unlikely. As a townie gaining so much suspicion early on, the mafia probably put him on their agenda and wanted to push us to mislynch him. Because of yomi’s early suspicion, early votes AGAINST him seem less suspicious as well. According to Midnight’s prelim vote count, some 6 hours before deadline, only 5 people had their vote on yomi, and not until somewhat close to the end 2 votes changed. As I previously mentioned, early votes against yomi would be less prone to suspicion, especially because there was a (so-so) case on him early on.
2-3 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
Seems extremely likely. The duration of yomi’s erratic play, probably a little over a day, would surely be long enough for two scum to make a case against him, and vote so. (or one make a case and another simply cite their support of someone else’s). The majority of the mafia would need to vote for yomi as he had the minimum 7/7. And with enough town support, it would be favorable to have someone NOT voting yomi, as a safety-card for when yomi flips green (2 votes). There is then always the consideration all 3 mafia voted for yomi, but it would be unfavorable to tunnel vision the votes.
WIFOM? + Show Spoiler + (Am i using WIFOM right?) As I was looking at the votes and writing this, I wanted to look at 0, 1, 2, 3, votes individually. But I realized this would be circular logic because I’d be making too many assumptions about the mafia’s agenda. However, I am convinced that the mafia worked to get yomi mis-lynched because yomi did so much of the mafia’s work for them. So some of my reads come from this likely motive.
That lead me to here.... some of my reads, and my reasoning 1. ArcticFox + Show Spoiler + First to vote yomi, but only after yomi has had enough time to make a case against himself. Also, he pressures everyone to vote yomi as the deadline approaches, insisting yomi’s play has been too scummy, and not acting erratically. Also, looking at his filter, I notice that AF posts are 1)plentiful, 2)insistent on good town discussion 3)provide pressure to lurkers 4)continously PRESSURES lurkers. And then this post + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 10:26 ArcticFox wrote:That quote *was* originally mine btw. It keeps getting credited to nreekay and I don't appreciate it. >.> Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 10:07 yomi wrote:
you are being way way way way too passive right now. post. a lot more. don't let anyone lurk. make them just post whatever's on their mind. this is SUPER stressful for mafia. mafia have to re-read their posts 10 times before posting and are super super careful about everything. making them have to give an opinion on everything is awful for a mafia. so punish (really punish, not just threaten) the lurkers hard and anyone that won't come out with near-constant lists of their reads on everyone and why. mafia hate hate hate that environment. on the other hand don't let it get super cluttered. just make everyone come out with frequent clear posts. last game you guys really almost had us on day 2. it was super scary how the posting was going. very organized, very clear, very concise. I just managed to discredit xatalos to win it but otherwise you guys had us made, many of the lists had 3 or 4 players picked of which 2 were mafia.
firm, aggressive, but reasoned and frequent posting is mafia's enemy. Really good advice that I don't want to go unnoticed. Our last game had over twice the amount of posting by this time, and it's hard to scumhunt when half the thread is inactive. He insists on being a strong pro-town voice and contributing to good town environment. strikes me as TOWN. Insectoceanx + Show Spoiler +I originally read insectoceanx as probably town, but this was mostly because he had the same read on Zealos as me, that Zealos is scum. However, insectoceanx then is the final vote on a vote change to get yomi lynched. This wasn’t the suspicious part, as I woke up a little before the deadline to scope out the yomi vote count. Insectoceanx could honestly have wanted to see what yomi flipped, as yomi’s ending play wasn’t really enough to redeem him ( and people weren’t around to discuss this, myself included). But then he posts this; + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 11:07 insectoceanx wrote:
That is all I have to say about changing my vote to yomi, I think zealos is the greatest chance of being scum at this point but yomi is close behind and I changed my vote to him for the sake of getting a lynch.
While I have not posted often, what I have posted is a collection of my thoughts from everything going on. These thoughts have not been one liners or contentless.
imallinson does make me a little suspicous with his last post being a little recap of what everyone else has discussed without adding anything of substance, he then votes for yomi, which i don't know if he is just jumping on the bandwagon at the end or not.
I agree with imallinson's assement that fox is not scum.
I am unsure of everyone else besides that zealos seems really scummy.
Maju is hard to read as most of what he said is in defence to yomi's erratic voting towards him. This came shortly after Night 1 began. Over half this post is insectoceanx defending himself, (Not sure of the grammar of 1st clause), trying to divert suspicion onto imallinson / zealos. I can’t analyze it much further, but this post seemed overly anxious in defending himself. SUSPICIOUS Imallinson + Show Spoiler + Bandwagon’d yomi, few posts.SUSPICIOUS Oneplus + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 16:09 oneplus wrote:
@Maju, Nreekay got the same read as me on Yomi which he’s an idiotic towny playing scummy. We are not protecting him, we want to bring out the fact that this is a possibility on his play. We should think out of the box and evaluating all the possibility, it is too early to make comfirmation that "Yomi is a scum" yet in my point of view. I just want everyone to think twice before yomi.
Maju, suspecting someone who is not defending you is not a good town play. He was the main, only supporter of yomi. Whether or not this was a scum “oh I called it, I must be town” play, I’m not sure. But I do know that in the above quote, he includes me in his read of yomi as an idiotic towny playing scummy. But he seemed much, much more sure than I was (I mainly thought Zealos was safer lynch) I don’t see any reason for mafia to single themselves out this much, especially before yomi started revealing his accusation play. strikes me as TOWN. Zealos + Show Spoiler +I had originally thought scum, 100%. Now I think he may have been caught up in yomi’s play. Zealos didn’t set Maju up for yomi to accuse. It seems, now, rather Zealos got swept into the play. And the more he got accused, the more cynical he got. But Zealos has neither come up with a defense nor indirectly done so by contributing. As yomi pointed out (RIP), Zealos has still been setting up Maju. I’m at 75% right now, so for now FOS List FOS1. Zealos 2. Insectoceanx 3. Imallinson Better be town1. ArcticFox 2. oneplus + Show Spoiler + If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. + Show Spoiler + If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face
Looking back at this post by nreekay, it gives me one fear. This fear is only in my mind if imallinson ends up not being mafia...
If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face
+ Show Spoiler +Could this be the line that got nreekay killed?
What if Arcticfox is mafia. Case: He has been most active in routing out lurkers in a game filled by lurkers. All the lurkers cannot be mafia, and if the mafia were not lurkers they would be pretty high above suspicion. Case in point, Arcticfox who has spent his entire time confronting lurkers and has never been suspected. The downside of lynch all lurkers is that the active mafia could put all suspicion on townies that lurk. That part of nreekays post is the only thing that makes him stand out in anyway, all of his other posts never really said much. Again this may just be complete bs, but I also share nreekays fear, if he is mafia we are all in a lot of trouble.
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On April 28 2012 10:56 insectoceanx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 19:19 nreekay324 wrote:yomi flipped town, confirming his claim that he was making a play to get real discussion going. yomi had only the minimum 7/7 votes to be lynched, however. By acting crazy in the beginning, yomi singled himself out; as my first theory of Maju getting thrown under the bus is wrong (maybe), it seems more likely yomi was to be that easy target to get bussed. Some notes on yomi votes, may be more useful later in the game then now; + Show Spoiler +0-1 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
This seems highly unlikely. As a townie gaining so much suspicion early on, the mafia probably put him on their agenda and wanted to push us to mislynch him. Because of yomi’s early suspicion, early votes AGAINST him seem less suspicious as well. According to Midnight’s prelim vote count, some 6 hours before deadline, only 5 people had their vote on yomi, and not until somewhat close to the end 2 votes changed. As I previously mentioned, early votes against yomi would be less prone to suspicion, especially because there was a (so-so) case on him early on.
2-3 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
Seems extremely likely. The duration of yomi’s erratic play, probably a little over a day, would surely be long enough for two scum to make a case against him, and vote so. (or one make a case and another simply cite their support of someone else’s). The majority of the mafia would need to vote for yomi as he had the minimum 7/7. And with enough town support, it would be favorable to have someone NOT voting yomi, as a safety-card for when yomi flips green (2 votes). There is then always the consideration all 3 mafia voted for yomi, but it would be unfavorable to tunnel vision the votes.
WIFOM? + Show Spoiler + (Am i using WIFOM right?) As I was looking at the votes and writing this, I wanted to look at 0, 1, 2, 3, votes individually. But I realized this would be circular logic because I’d be making too many assumptions about the mafia’s agenda. However, I am convinced that the mafia worked to get yomi mis-lynched because yomi did so much of the mafia’s work for them. So some of my reads come from this likely motive.
That lead me to here.... some of my reads, and my reasoning 1. ArcticFox + Show Spoiler + First to vote yomi, but only after yomi has had enough time to make a case against himself. Also, he pressures everyone to vote yomi as the deadline approaches, insisting yomi’s play has been too scummy, and not acting erratically. Also, looking at his filter, I notice that AF posts are 1)plentiful, 2)insistent on good town discussion 3)provide pressure to lurkers 4)continously PRESSURES lurkers. And then this post + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 10:26 ArcticFox wrote:That quote *was* originally mine btw. It keeps getting credited to nreekay and I don't appreciate it. >.> Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 10:07 yomi wrote:
you are being way way way way too passive right now. post. a lot more. don't let anyone lurk. make them just post whatever's on their mind. this is SUPER stressful for mafia. mafia have to re-read their posts 10 times before posting and are super super careful about everything. making them have to give an opinion on everything is awful for a mafia. so punish (really punish, not just threaten) the lurkers hard and anyone that won't come out with near-constant lists of their reads on everyone and why. mafia hate hate hate that environment. on the other hand don't let it get super cluttered. just make everyone come out with frequent clear posts. last game you guys really almost had us on day 2. it was super scary how the posting was going. very organized, very clear, very concise. I just managed to discredit xatalos to win it but otherwise you guys had us made, many of the lists had 3 or 4 players picked of which 2 were mafia.
firm, aggressive, but reasoned and frequent posting is mafia's enemy. Really good advice that I don't want to go unnoticed. Our last game had over twice the amount of posting by this time, and it's hard to scumhunt when half the thread is inactive. He insists on being a strong pro-town voice and contributing to good town environment. strikes me as TOWN. Insectoceanx + Show Spoiler +I originally read insectoceanx as probably town, but this was mostly because he had the same read on Zealos as me, that Zealos is scum. However, insectoceanx then is the final vote on a vote change to get yomi lynched. This wasn’t the suspicious part, as I woke up a little before the deadline to scope out the yomi vote count. Insectoceanx could honestly have wanted to see what yomi flipped, as yomi’s ending play wasn’t really enough to redeem him ( and people weren’t around to discuss this, myself included). But then he posts this; + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 11:07 insectoceanx wrote:
That is all I have to say about changing my vote to yomi, I think zealos is the greatest chance of being scum at this point but yomi is close behind and I changed my vote to him for the sake of getting a lynch.
While I have not posted often, what I have posted is a collection of my thoughts from everything going on. These thoughts have not been one liners or contentless.
imallinson does make me a little suspicous with his last post being a little recap of what everyone else has discussed without adding anything of substance, he then votes for yomi, which i don't know if he is just jumping on the bandwagon at the end or not.
I agree with imallinson's assement that fox is not scum.
I am unsure of everyone else besides that zealos seems really scummy.
Maju is hard to read as most of what he said is in defence to yomi's erratic voting towards him. This came shortly after Night 1 began. Over half this post is insectoceanx defending himself, (Not sure of the grammar of 1st clause), trying to divert suspicion onto imallinson / zealos. I can’t analyze it much further, but this post seemed overly anxious in defending himself. SUSPICIOUS Imallinson + Show Spoiler + Bandwagon’d yomi, few posts.SUSPICIOUS Oneplus + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 16:09 oneplus wrote:
@Maju, Nreekay got the same read as me on Yomi which he’s an idiotic towny playing scummy. We are not protecting him, we want to bring out the fact that this is a possibility on his play. We should think out of the box and evaluating all the possibility, it is too early to make comfirmation that "Yomi is a scum" yet in my point of view. I just want everyone to think twice before yomi.
Maju, suspecting someone who is not defending you is not a good town play. He was the main, only supporter of yomi. Whether or not this was a scum “oh I called it, I must be town” play, I’m not sure. But I do know that in the above quote, he includes me in his read of yomi as an idiotic towny playing scummy. But he seemed much, much more sure than I was (I mainly thought Zealos was safer lynch) I don’t see any reason for mafia to single themselves out this much, especially before yomi started revealing his accusation play. strikes me as TOWN. Zealos + Show Spoiler +I had originally thought scum, 100%. Now I think he may have been caught up in yomi’s play. Zealos didn’t set Maju up for yomi to accuse. It seems, now, rather Zealos got swept into the play. And the more he got accused, the more cynical he got. But Zealos has neither come up with a defense nor indirectly done so by contributing. As yomi pointed out (RIP), Zealos has still been setting up Maju. I’m at 75% right now, so for now FOS List FOS1. Zealos 2. Insectoceanx 3. Imallinson Better be town1. ArcticFox 2. oneplus + Show Spoiler + If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. + Show Spoiler + If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face Looking back at this post by nreekay, it gives me one fear. This fear is only in my mind if imallinson ends up not being mafia... Show nested quote +If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face + Show Spoiler +Could this be the line that got nreekay killed? What if Arcticfox is mafia. Case: He has been most active in routing out lurkers in a game filled by lurkers. All the lurkers cannot be mafia, and if the mafia were not lurkers they would be pretty high above suspicion. Case in point, Arcticfox who has spent his entire time confronting lurkers and has never been suspected. The downside of lynch all lurkers is that the active mafia could put all suspicion on townies that lurk. That part of nreekays post is the only thing that makes him stand out in anyway, all of his other posts never really said much. Again this may just be complete bs, but I also share nreekays fear, if he is mafia we are all in a lot of trouble.
He also called you out as scum in the same post, you know.
If you want to build a case against me, go for it. There's almost 70 posts worth of material for you to work with. If your case is that I'm pressuring lurkers, you've got a long way to go.
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Night 2:
The assembled ministers made their decision quickly. A few dissenting voices were heard, but the consensus was clear: imallinson had to be guilty!
On the other side of the table, Gossemerr, Stossel, and Ydriel pulled out some old tapes of the Tiananmen Square protests, selecting Zhao Ziyang's famous speech on the morning before the troops were sent in.
"同学们，我们来得太晚了。对不起同学们了。不管你们说我们、批评我们，都是应该的。我这次来不是请你们原谅的。不是的，我想说的是，现在同学们身体已经非常虚弱，绝食已经到了第七天，不能再这样下去了。绝食时间长了，对身体会造成难以弥补的损害，这是有生命危险的。现在最重要的是，希望尽快结束这次绝食。我知道，你们绝食是希望党和政府对你们所提出的问题给以最满意的答复。我觉得，我们的对话渠道是畅通的，有些问题需要一个过程才能解决。比如你们提到的性质、责任问题，我觉得这些问题终究可以得到解决，终究可以取得一致的看法。但是，你们也应该知道，情况是很复杂的，需要有一个过程。你们不能在绝食已进入第七天的情况下，还坚持一定要得到满意答复才停止绝食。"
"You know," The Vice President interjected, "this isn't really the time for ---"
"你们还年轻，来日方长，你们应该健康地活着，看到我们中国实现四化的那一天。你们不像我们，我们已经老了，无所谓了。国家和你们的父母培养你们上大学不容易呀！现在十几、二十几岁，就这样把生命牺牲掉哇，同学们能不能稍微理智地想一想。现在的情况已经非常严重，你们都知道，党和国家非常着急，整个社会都忧心如焚。另外，北京是首都，各方面情况一天天严重，这种情况不能再继续下去了，同学们都是好意，为了我们国家好，但是这种情况发展下去，失去控制，会造成各方面的严重影响。"
The Minister of Security snarled at them. "Turn that goddamn thing off! We have work to do!"
"总之，我就是这么一个心意。如果你们停止绝食，政府不会因此把对话的门关起来，绝不会！你们所提的问题，我们可以继续讨论。慢是慢了一些，但一些问题的认识正在逐步接近。我今天主要是看望一下同学们，同时说一说我们的心情，希望同学们冷静地想一想这个问题。这件事情在不理智的情况下，是很难想清楚的。大家都这么一股劲，年轻人么，我们都是从年轻人过来的，我们也游过行，卧过轨，当时根本不想以后怎么样。最后，我再次恳请同学们冷静地想一想今后的事。有很多事情总是可以解决的。希望你们早些结束绝食，谢谢同学们。"
No one was lynched!
Please PM your night actions to both me and GMarshal. Day 3 will begin in 24 hours, at 19:00 PDT on April 28, 2012.
Non-voting players will be warned.
Votecount:
Stossel: 1
imallinson
imallinson: 5
ArcticFox
MajuGarzett
insectoceanx
Zealos
ForTheDr3am
Zealos: 1
oneplus
Not voting: 3
Gossemerr
Stossel
Ydriel
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Midnight, you have NO idea how hard I needed that laugh. That picture and those lines sum up how I feel so well.
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On April 28 2012 10:59 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 10:56 insectoceanx wrote:On April 25 2012 19:19 nreekay324 wrote:yomi flipped town, confirming his claim that he was making a play to get real discussion going. yomi had only the minimum 7/7 votes to be lynched, however. By acting crazy in the beginning, yomi singled himself out; as my first theory of Maju getting thrown under the bus is wrong (maybe), it seems more likely yomi was to be that easy target to get bussed. Some notes on yomi votes, may be more useful later in the game then now; + Show Spoiler +0-1 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
This seems highly unlikely. As a townie gaining so much suspicion early on, the mafia probably put him on their agenda and wanted to push us to mislynch him. Because of yomi’s early suspicion, early votes AGAINST him seem less suspicious as well. According to Midnight’s prelim vote count, some 6 hours before deadline, only 5 people had their vote on yomi, and not until somewhat close to the end 2 votes changed. As I previously mentioned, early votes against yomi would be less prone to suspicion, especially because there was a (so-so) case on him early on.
2-3 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
Seems extremely likely. The duration of yomi’s erratic play, probably a little over a day, would surely be long enough for two scum to make a case against him, and vote so. (or one make a case and another simply cite their support of someone else’s). The majority of the mafia would need to vote for yomi as he had the minimum 7/7. And with enough town support, it would be favorable to have someone NOT voting yomi, as a safety-card for when yomi flips green (2 votes). There is then always the consideration all 3 mafia voted for yomi, but it would be unfavorable to tunnel vision the votes.
WIFOM? + Show Spoiler + (Am i using WIFOM right?) As I was looking at the votes and writing this, I wanted to look at 0, 1, 2, 3, votes individually. But I realized this would be circular logic because I’d be making too many assumptions about the mafia’s agenda. However, I am convinced that the mafia worked to get yomi mis-lynched because yomi did so much of the mafia’s work for them. So some of my reads come from this likely motive.
That lead me to here.... some of my reads, and my reasoning 1. ArcticFox + Show Spoiler + First to vote yomi, but only after yomi has had enough time to make a case against himself. Also, he pressures everyone to vote yomi as the deadline approaches, insisting yomi’s play has been too scummy, and not acting erratically. Also, looking at his filter, I notice that AF posts are 1)plentiful, 2)insistent on good town discussion 3)provide pressure to lurkers 4)continously PRESSURES lurkers. And then this post + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 10:26 ArcticFox wrote:That quote *was* originally mine btw. It keeps getting credited to nreekay and I don't appreciate it. >.> Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 10:07 yomi wrote:
you are being way way way way too passive right now. post. a lot more. don't let anyone lurk. make them just post whatever's on their mind. this is SUPER stressful for mafia. mafia have to re-read their posts 10 times before posting and are super super careful about everything. making them have to give an opinion on everything is awful for a mafia. so punish (really punish, not just threaten) the lurkers hard and anyone that won't come out with near-constant lists of their reads on everyone and why. mafia hate hate hate that environment. on the other hand don't let it get super cluttered. just make everyone come out with frequent clear posts. last game you guys really almost had us on day 2. it was super scary how the posting was going. very organized, very clear, very concise. I just managed to discredit xatalos to win it but otherwise you guys had us made, many of the lists had 3 or 4 players picked of which 2 were mafia.
firm, aggressive, but reasoned and frequent posting is mafia's enemy. Really good advice that I don't want to go unnoticed. Our last game had over twice the amount of posting by this time, and it's hard to scumhunt when half the thread is inactive. He insists on being a strong pro-town voice and contributing to good town environment. strikes me as TOWN. Insectoceanx + Show Spoiler +I originally read insectoceanx as probably town, but this was mostly because he had the same read on Zealos as me, that Zealos is scum. However, insectoceanx then is the final vote on a vote change to get yomi lynched. This wasn’t the suspicious part, as I woke up a little before the deadline to scope out the yomi vote count. Insectoceanx could honestly have wanted to see what yomi flipped, as yomi’s ending play wasn’t really enough to redeem him ( and people weren’t around to discuss this, myself included). But then he posts this; + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 11:07 insectoceanx wrote:
That is all I have to say about changing my vote to yomi, I think zealos is the greatest chance of being scum at this point but yomi is close behind and I changed my vote to him for the sake of getting a lynch.
While I have not posted often, what I have posted is a collection of my thoughts from everything going on. These thoughts have not been one liners or contentless.
imallinson does make me a little suspicous with his last post being a little recap of what everyone else has discussed without adding anything of substance, he then votes for yomi, which i don't know if he is just jumping on the bandwagon at the end or not.
I agree with imallinson's assement that fox is not scum.
I am unsure of everyone else besides that zealos seems really scummy.
Maju is hard to read as most of what he said is in defence to yomi's erratic voting towards him. This came shortly after Night 1 began. Over half this post is insectoceanx defending himself, (Not sure of the grammar of 1st clause), trying to divert suspicion onto imallinson / zealos. I can’t analyze it much further, but this post seemed overly anxious in defending himself. SUSPICIOUS Imallinson + Show Spoiler + Bandwagon’d yomi, few posts.SUSPICIOUS Oneplus + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 16:09 oneplus wrote:
@Maju, Nreekay got the same read as me on Yomi which he’s an idiotic towny playing scummy. We are not protecting him, we want to bring out the fact that this is a possibility on his play. We should think out of the box and evaluating all the possibility, it is too early to make comfirmation that "Yomi is a scum" yet in my point of view. I just want everyone to think twice before yomi.
Maju, suspecting someone who is not defending you is not a good town play. He was the main, only supporter of yomi. Whether or not this was a scum “oh I called it, I must be town” play, I’m not sure. But I do know that in the above quote, he includes me in his read of yomi as an idiotic towny playing scummy. But he seemed much, much more sure than I was (I mainly thought Zealos was safer lynch) I don’t see any reason for mafia to single themselves out this much, especially before yomi started revealing his accusation play. strikes me as TOWN. Zealos + Show Spoiler +I had originally thought scum, 100%. Now I think he may have been caught up in yomi’s play. Zealos didn’t set Maju up for yomi to accuse. It seems, now, rather Zealos got swept into the play. And the more he got accused, the more cynical he got. But Zealos has neither come up with a defense nor indirectly done so by contributing. As yomi pointed out (RIP), Zealos has still been setting up Maju. I’m at 75% right now, so for now FOS List FOS1. Zealos 2. Insectoceanx 3. Imallinson Better be town1. ArcticFox 2. oneplus + Show Spoiler + If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. + Show Spoiler + If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face Looking back at this post by nreekay, it gives me one fear. This fear is only in my mind if imallinson ends up not being mafia... If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face + Show Spoiler +Could this be the line that got nreekay killed? What if Arcticfox is mafia. Case: He has been most active in routing out lurkers in a game filled by lurkers. All the lurkers cannot be mafia, and if the mafia were not lurkers they would be pretty high above suspicion. Case in point, Arcticfox who has spent his entire time confronting lurkers and has never been suspected. The downside of lynch all lurkers is that the active mafia could put all suspicion on townies that lurk. That part of nreekays post is the only thing that makes him stand out in anyway, all of his other posts never really said much. Again this may just be complete bs, but I also share nreekays fear, if he is mafia we are all in a lot of trouble. He also called you out as scum in the same post, you know. If you want to build a case against me, go for it. There's almost 70 posts worth of material for you to work with. If your case is that I'm pressuring lurkers, you've got a long way to go.
As I said this is not a full strung theory, and since there was no lynch it has no evidence behind it all. With no info on so many players as they have not posted, and now not even voted it seems to me as a somewhat valid fear.
The question now is where do we go from here? We have 3 days before we can lynch again and we lose another townie tomorrow night.
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On April 28 2012 11:11 insectoceanx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2012 10:59 ArcticFox wrote:On April 28 2012 10:56 insectoceanx wrote:On April 25 2012 19:19 nreekay324 wrote:yomi flipped town, confirming his claim that he was making a play to get real discussion going. yomi had only the minimum 7/7 votes to be lynched, however. By acting crazy in the beginning, yomi singled himself out; as my first theory of Maju getting thrown under the bus is wrong (maybe), it seems more likely yomi was to be that easy target to get bussed. Some notes on yomi votes, may be more useful later in the game then now; + Show Spoiler +0-1 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
This seems highly unlikely. As a townie gaining so much suspicion early on, the mafia probably put him on their agenda and wanted to push us to mislynch him. Because of yomi’s early suspicion, early votes AGAINST him seem less suspicious as well. According to Midnight’s prelim vote count, some 6 hours before deadline, only 5 people had their vote on yomi, and not until somewhat close to the end 2 votes changed. As I previously mentioned, early votes against yomi would be less prone to suspicion, especially because there was a (so-so) case on him early on.
2-3 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
Seems extremely likely. The duration of yomi’s erratic play, probably a little over a day, would surely be long enough for two scum to make a case against him, and vote so. (or one make a case and another simply cite their support of someone else’s). The majority of the mafia would need to vote for yomi as he had the minimum 7/7. And with enough town support, it would be favorable to have someone NOT voting yomi, as a safety-card for when yomi flips green (2 votes). There is then always the consideration all 3 mafia voted for yomi, but it would be unfavorable to tunnel vision the votes.
WIFOM? + Show Spoiler + (Am i using WIFOM right?) As I was looking at the votes and writing this, I wanted to look at 0, 1, 2, 3, votes individually. But I realized this would be circular logic because I’d be making too many assumptions about the mafia’s agenda. However, I am convinced that the mafia worked to get yomi mis-lynched because yomi did so much of the mafia’s work for them. So some of my reads come from this likely motive.
That lead me to here.... some of my reads, and my reasoning 1. ArcticFox + Show Spoiler + First to vote yomi, but only after yomi has had enough time to make a case against himself. Also, he pressures everyone to vote yomi as the deadline approaches, insisting yomi’s play has been too scummy, and not acting erratically. Also, looking at his filter, I notice that AF posts are 1)plentiful, 2)insistent on good town discussion 3)provide pressure to lurkers 4)continously PRESSURES lurkers. And then this post + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 10:26 ArcticFox wrote:That quote *was* originally mine btw. It keeps getting credited to nreekay and I don't appreciate it. >.> Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 10:07 yomi wrote:
you are being way way way way too passive right now. post. a lot more. don't let anyone lurk. make them just post whatever's on their mind. this is SUPER stressful for mafia. mafia have to re-read their posts 10 times before posting and are super super careful about everything. making them have to give an opinion on everything is awful for a mafia. so punish (really punish, not just threaten) the lurkers hard and anyone that won't come out with near-constant lists of their reads on everyone and why. mafia hate hate hate that environment. on the other hand don't let it get super cluttered. just make everyone come out with frequent clear posts. last game you guys really almost had us on day 2. it was super scary how the posting was going. very organized, very clear, very concise. I just managed to discredit xatalos to win it but otherwise you guys had us made, many of the lists had 3 or 4 players picked of which 2 were mafia.
firm, aggressive, but reasoned and frequent posting is mafia's enemy. Really good advice that I don't want to go unnoticed. Our last game had over twice the amount of posting by this time, and it's hard to scumhunt when half the thread is inactive. He insists on being a strong pro-town voice and contributing to good town environment. strikes me as TOWN. Insectoceanx + Show Spoiler +I originally read insectoceanx as probably town, but this was mostly because he had the same read on Zealos as me, that Zealos is scum. However, insectoceanx then is the final vote on a vote change to get yomi lynched. This wasn’t the suspicious part, as I woke up a little before the deadline to scope out the yomi vote count. Insectoceanx could honestly have wanted to see what yomi flipped, as yomi’s ending play wasn’t really enough to redeem him ( and people weren’t around to discuss this, myself included). But then he posts this; + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 11:07 insectoceanx wrote:
That is all I have to say about changing my vote to yomi, I think zealos is the greatest chance of being scum at this point but yomi is close behind and I changed my vote to him for the sake of getting a lynch.
While I have not posted often, what I have posted is a collection of my thoughts from everything going on. These thoughts have not been one liners or contentless.
imallinson does make me a little suspicous with his last post being a little recap of what everyone else has discussed without adding anything of substance, he then votes for yomi, which i don't know if he is just jumping on the bandwagon at the end or not.
I agree with imallinson's assement that fox is not scum.
I am unsure of everyone else besides that zealos seems really scummy.
Maju is hard to read as most of what he said is in defence to yomi's erratic voting towards him. This came shortly after Night 1 began. Over half this post is insectoceanx defending himself, (Not sure of the grammar of 1st clause), trying to divert suspicion onto imallinson / zealos. I can’t analyze it much further, but this post seemed overly anxious in defending himself. SUSPICIOUS Imallinson + Show Spoiler + Bandwagon’d yomi, few posts.SUSPICIOUS Oneplus + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 16:09 oneplus wrote:
@Maju, Nreekay got the same read as me on Yomi which he’s an idiotic towny playing scummy. We are not protecting him, we want to bring out the fact that this is a possibility on his play. We should think out of the box and evaluating all the possibility, it is too early to make comfirmation that "Yomi is a scum" yet in my point of view. I just want everyone to think twice before yomi.
Maju, suspecting someone who is not defending you is not a good town play. He was the main, only supporter of yomi. Whether or not this was a scum “oh I called it, I must be town” play, I’m not sure. But I do know that in the above quote, he includes me in his read of yomi as an idiotic towny playing scummy. But he seemed much, much more sure than I was (I mainly thought Zealos was safer lynch) I don’t see any reason for mafia to single themselves out this much, especially before yomi started revealing his accusation play. strikes me as TOWN. Zealos + Show Spoiler +I had originally thought scum, 100%. Now I think he may have been caught up in yomi’s play. Zealos didn’t set Maju up for yomi to accuse. It seems, now, rather Zealos got swept into the play. And the more he got accused, the more cynical he got. But Zealos has neither come up with a defense nor indirectly done so by contributing. As yomi pointed out (RIP), Zealos has still been setting up Maju. I’m at 75% right now, so for now FOS List FOS1. Zealos 2. Insectoceanx 3. Imallinson Better be town1. ArcticFox 2. oneplus + Show Spoiler + If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. + Show Spoiler + If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face Looking back at this post by nreekay, it gives me one fear. This fear is only in my mind if imallinson ends up not being mafia... If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face + Show Spoiler +Could this be the line that got nreekay killed? What if Arcticfox is mafia. Case: He has been most active in routing out lurkers in a game filled by lurkers. All the lurkers cannot be mafia, and if the mafia were not lurkers they would be pretty high above suspicion. Case in point, Arcticfox who has spent his entire time confronting lurkers and has never been suspected. The downside of lynch all lurkers is that the active mafia could put all suspicion on townies that lurk. That part of nreekays post is the only thing that makes him stand out in anyway, all of his other posts never really said much. Again this may just be complete bs, but I also share nreekays fear, if he is mafia we are all in a lot of trouble. He also called you out as scum in the same post, you know. If you want to build a case against me, go for it. There's almost 70 posts worth of material for you to work with. If your case is that I'm pressuring lurkers, you've got a long way to go. As I said this is not a full strung theory, and since there was no lynch it has no evidence behind it all. With no info on so many players as they have not posted, and now not even voted it seems to me as a somewhat valid fear. The question now is where do we go from here? We have 3 days before we can lynch again and we lose another townie tomorrow night.
My theory is that they were afraid to shoot me because they were afraid of a medic possibly being there, so they shot into the town got INCREDIBLY lucky with a blue snipe. You can confirm that theory when I turn up dead tonight.
You'll also notice that his suspect list lines up right with mine -- imallinson, zealos, and you. I add in oneplus as a suspect because I wasn't as convinced that his posting was as good as people thought. Now, with oneplus being the reason that we couldn't get imallinson lynched, there's even more reason to suspect him.
I'm almost certain that 3 out of the 4 of you are the scum team. The rest of the night is just figuring out who's who before I'm shot.
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EBWOP -- I had town/null reads on the people that the no-voters replaced, with the exception of Draco who could be scum. Stossel could still be scum. Hard to tell when they don't post, so my job is to get my strongest scum read lynched first (imallinson), and hopefully the replacements post so we can figure out which side they're on.
It's all we can really do.
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I am sorry, I had every intention of voting, but I thought I had more time.
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On April 28 2012 12:05 Stossel wrote:
I am sorry, I had every intention of voting, but I thought I had more time.
Who were you going to vote for?
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Oh wow. Come on guys :X
We've essentially just wasted an entire day. Please say someone has the Triple Dayvig role?
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This sux when Ydriel and Gosser are not even participating
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This game is getting destroyed by inactivity. Come on people.
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Wow, I would have rather had Draco trying to lynch me than these mute replacements. Even when Stossel posted again he just apologised then contributed nothing.
I still plan to vote for imallinson tonight. I know others voted for him just to have consensus so is anyone going to change their vote from yesterday?
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Day 3:
The previous day's lack of productivity had left the Vice President in a ferocious rage, so no one dared to question his absence at breakfast the next day. As the morning stretched, they decided that they had to begin the day's proceedings. When the Minister of Security opened his office door, they found the man face-down on the thick carpet, half a dozen bullet holes rending the back of his suit jacket.
ArcticFox, Vanilla Town, was killed!
It is now Day 3. The deadline is in 48 hours, 19:00 PST on 4/30/12. Remember to vote in this thread. Proper formatting is ##Vote: <NAME>
GMarshal and I will discuss what to do about the inactive players.
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Shocker.
gg, gl town
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Great, so now it'll just be me talking to myself for the day.
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hi zealos i would like to talk to you, i still like to vote for you haha but it seem pretty impossible to happen due to the inactivity and it make me so unmotivated to post with this number of active player
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What do you wanna talk about? We have nothing to analyse?
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Hello everyone, I'm sorry for being so quiet the past few days. I have been really ill and wasn't in a fit state to read through the thread and post a lot. I will try to remedy that from now. As for general reads I'm starting to think Zealos might be town. He still posts a ton of one liners but given general inactivity I can't really blame him for that. With Arctic dead he is probably the highest contributing player. I'm still suspicious of Draco/Stossel but it's hard to make a case against a replacement. Maju, Dream and Oneplus I still think are town. No one else has posted enough to get a good read on.
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On April 30 2012 03:00 imallinson wrote:
Hello everyone, I'm sorry for being so quiet the past few days. I have been really ill and wasn't in a fit state to read through the thread and post a lot. I will try to remedy that from now. As for general reads I'm starting to think Zealos might be town. He still posts a ton of one liners but given general inactivity I can't really blame him for that. With Arctic dead he is probably the highest contributing player. I'm still suspicious of Draco/Stossel but it's hard to make a case against a replacement. Maju, Dream and Oneplus I still think are town. No one else has posted enough to get a good read on.
Once you get a chance to read through stuff can you post your responses to the cases against you? Hopefully that will give people something to discuss.
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Sorry I have not been on for the past day, was visiting family, will be back home later tonight and will be reading and posting.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 30 2012 04:00 MajuGarzett wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 03:00 imallinson wrote:
Hello everyone, I'm sorry for being so quiet the past few days. I have been really ill and wasn't in a fit state to read through the thread and post a lot. I will try to remedy that from now. As for general reads I'm starting to think Zealos might be town. He still posts a ton of one liners but given general inactivity I can't really blame him for that. With Arctic dead he is probably the highest contributing player. I'm still suspicious of Draco/Stossel but it's hard to make a case against a replacement. Maju, Dream and Oneplus I still think are town. No one else has posted enough to get a good read on. Once you get a chance to read through stuff can you post your responses to the cases against you? Hopefully that will give people something to discuss.
Well the case against me seems to basically be that I'm lurking, which I have explained, and not posting any strong views on people. The only person I had a strong read on was Draco but he was replaced so can't answer to that and his replacement has posted nothing besides a case against me and Zealos who are easy targets.
I was very suspicious of Zealos Day 1 and Day 2 he was still suspicious to me but behind Draco. His posting has been better as the game has gone on so I'm starting to think he might be town, he is one of the people actually contributing. However, he is still very defensive and suggests some stuff that seems bad for the town so I'm still reasonably suspicious of him.
I wasn't sure about Daniel and Mutant before they were replaced and their replacements haven't posted anything yet they could easily be scum but I can't make a case against them.
Dream seems to be contributing as does Oneplus which makes me think they are town however seeing as there is so little posting in general it would be easy for scum to hide in a middle ground posting wise.
Maju I'm really not sure on because it looks like he is contributing but his only real cases are against me and Zealos, again easy targets, so I think he might be trying to hide behind other people's cases.
Insect I'm fairly sure is town. He contributes a lot and if he keeps up the good posting from earlier then he is probably my top town read at the moment.
If there is any specific case you want me to answer I'll be happy to.
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What am I posting that is bad for town exactly?
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On April 30 2012 06:15 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 04:00 MajuGarzett wrote:On April 30 2012 03:00 imallinson wrote:
Hello everyone, I'm sorry for being so quiet the past few days. I have been really ill and wasn't in a fit state to read through the thread and post a lot. I will try to remedy that from now. As for general reads I'm starting to think Zealos might be town. He still posts a ton of one liners but given general inactivity I can't really blame him for that. With Arctic dead he is probably the highest contributing player. I'm still suspicious of Draco/Stossel but it's hard to make a case against a replacement. Maju, Dream and Oneplus I still think are town. No one else has posted enough to get a good read on. Once you get a chance to read through stuff can you post your responses to the cases against you? Hopefully that will give people something to discuss. Well the case against me seems to basically be that I'm lurking, which I have explained, and not posting any strong views on people. The only person I had a strong read on was Draco but he was replaced so can't answer to that and his replacement has posted nothing besides a case against me and Zealos who are easy targets. I was very suspicious of Zealos Day 1 and Day 2 he was still suspicious to me but behind Draco. His posting has been better as the game has gone on so I'm starting to think he might be town, he is one of the people actually contributing. However, he is still very defensive and suggests some stuff that seems bad for the town so I'm still reasonably suspicious of him. I wasn't sure about Daniel and Mutant before they were replaced and their replacements haven't posted anything yet they could easily be scum but I can't make a case against them. Dream seems to be contributing as does Oneplus which makes me think they are town however seeing as there is so little posting in general it would be easy for scum to hide in a middle ground posting wise. Maju I'm really not sure on because it looks like he is contributing but his only real cases are against me and Zealos, again easy targets, so I think he might be trying to hide behind other people's cases. Insect I'm fairly sure is town. He contributes a lot and if he keeps up the good posting from earlier then he is probably my top town read at the moment. If there is any specific case you want me to answer I'll be happy to.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2012 10:03 ArcticFox wrote:
Stossel -- welcome to the game! Love the first post. Easy question for you, to get you into the flow -- your predecessor seemed to have many, many, MANY things to say about Maju. What are your thoughts on him?
Now, I think we've given people ample time to show up and be useful. I'm more than ready to lock in my vote.
##Vote: imallinson
He's almost made it his job to be useless to town. Had absolutely no opinion on anybody in town in his big summary post ("seems town, seems scum, null read, might be scum" etc etc -- you can check his filter and read it, it's not hard to find in his 4 posts), except for yomi, who he bandwagoned onto very easily. He had an FoS on Zealos after that, then decided to make his 3rd post on....Dracolich? He has volunteered no other opinions seperate from when I asked him directly about Zealos and oneplus, and his post there was STILL the "leaning town" and "fairly scummy" non-commital posting style he's done.
In short, he's posted little, and what he's posted says nothing. He's scum and needs to hang.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 27 2012 11:32 MajuGarzett wrote:imallinsonImallinson has been heavily lurking this game. With 5 days of play gone he has only made 5 posts. Of these, the first post essentially mentioned two players and said that he was unsure of either of them. This added nothing to the game. His first act of any gravity was to vote for yomi but this vote was one of the last votes cast and yomi was already the most likely choice to get lynched.At this point voting for yomi was an extremely safe move for mafia as it was a common choice and a townie would be lynched. Now that we know yomi was townie this vote becomes more suspicious. Alone it might not be much but combined with the lurking and lack of solid posting it becomes suspicious. Looking back at the accusation against yomi, it initially seems to have content but reeally the only thing he used against yomi was Show nested quote +He then tries to defend his vote for maju and doesn't do very well at it. "Why not" isn't a sufficient answer and I'm not buying the pressure vote excuse. It was such a baseless accusation that maju would never felt any real pressure. Again this feels like someone trying to look like he is contributing while not doing anything of the sort. I personally see this accusation: Show nested quote +The asking everyone to post their previous games is strange. If you actually wanted to read through people's previous games you would just go and do it, especially given that the people in this game will have at most 2 other games. This seems to me to be trying to look like he is contributing. as rather weak. Imallinson recently contributed new ideas with his voting for Dracho (Gossemerr). We can see though that all the information used against Dracho in this post was posted before imallinson's initial list of reads. Why, imallinson, was none of this observed earlier? Also, Dracho was initially imallinson's third choice for scum behind yomi and Zealos. After yomi died Dracho suddenly moved up to first choice over Zealos with no explanation why his suspicions over Zealos diminished. After imallinsons first content filled post he finger of suspicions' Zealos while all the evidence that he later uses to vote Dracholich has already been posted. Also, he posted a lot more evidence against Dracho then against yomi. Assuming allin read everyone's posts carefully, his initial vote should have been for Dracho with yomi as a second choice. Why did that not happen imallinson? I think there is a chance that both Zealos and imallinson are both scum and that imallinson has been keeping Zealos as a second choice to avid suspicion then voted for townies.
These are the ones in particular I would like you to respond to. There is more to the accusations than saying you were lurking.
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EBWOP
You really haven't explained why you haven't had much information. Also,why would a change of players negate your read. The new player has the same role as the old one.
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Well we still need to vote to lynch someone tomorrow. I feel we should still lynch imallinson, unless everyone has a different cadidate or he can convince us otherwise. It was the plan before, and I think would have gone through if all the replacements weren't inactive.
Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active.
My List:
imallinson
maju
zealos
##Vote: imallinson
Mods: What happens if the replacements aren't active by deadline?
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@insectoceanx
You've never really posted more than a few lines accusing imallinson. Do you have any reasons outside of imallinson's lurking or do you just generally agree with other people's accusations?
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Well what I posted is most everything I had thought of regarding him, plus what others have said. Without him having posted anything it is really hard to come up with anything else.
It seems he may have been defending his voting for yomi by saying that draco was being defending yomi just to get town cred.
This is a very soft defence of Yomi. Both this and the bad case against Maju make me think Draco is scum trying to get town cred when Yomi flips town.
There is more posts along the same line later on. More defence of his first two posts where he keeps pushing less scumhunting:
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 30 2012 12:37 insectoceanx wrote:Well what I posted is most everything I had thought of regarding him, plus what others have said. Without him having posted anything it is really hard to come up with anything else. It seems he may have been defending his voting for yomi by saying that draco was being defending yomi just to get town cred. Show nested quote +This is a very soft defence of Yomi. Both this and the bad case against Maju make me think Draco is scum trying to get town cred when Yomi flips town.
There is more posts along the same line later on. More defence of his first two posts where he keeps pushing less scumhunting:
I wasn't trying to say voting Yomi was either bad or good just that defending Yomi, knowing he is town, is an easy way for scum to get some town cred. It alone wouldn't make me think someone was scum but I can see it fitting someone's scum play. Also I wasn't trying to defend my vote for Yomi because there wasn't really any need to. There were perfectly valid reasons to vote for Yomi, if there weren't he wouldn't have got 7 votes.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 30 2012 07:52 MajuGarzett wrote:
EBWOP
You really haven't explained why you haven't had much information. Also,why would a change of players negate your read. The new player has the same role as the old one.
It doesn't negate my read but it makes it impossible for the replacement to defend any cases made against them because the posting wan't theirs. So my suspicion of Draco transfers to Stossel but I am bearing in mind that Stossel can't defend Draco's posts. If he starts posting more pro-town then my suspicions will be lower.
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We've lost Arctic, and he was a fairly obvious choice for a hit for a variety of reasons. I think we should stay the course tonight, nothing said previously is negated by missing a vote and I won't rehash it here. It's my fault for missing the vote, though even if I had voted for imallinson at the time (as he was my top scumread), he would've still needed another vote to actually be lynched.
Furthermore, the lynching of Arctic only serves to make an imallinson vote more worthwhile. The failure to lynch was not due to lack of suspicion and so scum could've easily kept Arctic alive another night to push imallinson for another lynching if he was town and used their hit to focus on someone else.
##Vote: imallinson
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@Zealos
You voted for imallinson before? Why are you voting for me now?
@Townspeople
We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as
Furthermore, the lynching of Arctic only serves to make an imallinson vote more worthwhile. The failure to lynch was not due to lack of suspicion and so scum could've easily kept Arctic alive another night to push imallinson for another lynching if he was town and used their hit to focus on someone else.
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On April 30 2012 21:12 Stossel wrote:
Furthermore, the lynching of Arctic...
##Vote: imallinson
EBWOP - I meant killing
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On April 30 2012 21:22 insectoceanx wrote:@Zealos You voted for imallinson before? Why are you voting for me now? @Townspeople We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as Show nested quote +Furthermore, the lynching of Arctic only serves to make an imallinson vote more worthwhile. The failure to lynch was not due to lack of suspicion and so scum could've easily kept Arctic alive another night to push imallinson for another lynching if he was town and used their hit to focus on someone else.
Because you irritate me big time. How dare you come back after being a complete lurker, only to call the only people who bothered keeping town active mafia.
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On April 30 2012 21:12 Stossel wrote:Furthermore, the lynching of Arctic only serves to make an imallinson vote more worthwhile. The failure to lynch was not due to lack of suspicion and so scum could've easily kept Arctic alive another night to push imallinson for another lynching if he was town and used their hit to focus on someone else.
What does keeping Arctic alive over the night have to do with lynching imallison during the day? As we can see right now, it is easy enough for an imallison lynch to happen anyways.
Speaking of logic I can't follow, there is also this here.
On April 30 2012 10:50 insectoceanx wrote:
Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active.
Since when does lurking mean that you are town? For all we know they might just have had some legit reasons to disappear regardless of whether they are town or not.
Overall, I think that mafia got the best deal out of the last voting. A bandwagon on imallinson that still resulted in no-lynch means that we have no additional information to go on today, not to mention the overall inactivity. I would like a statement from oneplus as to why he did not switch votes, as he never claimed he had a townread on imallinson and only said that his scumread on Zealos is stronger - but no reason as to why not lynch the (at that point) lurking imallinson.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On April 30 2012 21:22 insectoceanx wrote:
We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as
What exactly is the plan. Because if it is blindly going along the same path as yesterday that isn't helpful. Along with this
On April 30 2012 10:50 insectoceanx wrote:
Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active.
Your recent posting doesn't make much sense unless you are trying to get town to blindly follow you into lynching an easy town target (me).
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
@Maju
He's almost made it his job to be useless to town. Had absolutely no opinion on anybody in town in his big summary post ("seems town, seems scum, null read, might be scum" etc etc -- you can check his filter and read it, it's not hard to find in his 4 posts), except for yomi, who he bandwagoned onto very easily. He had an FoS on Zealos after that, then decided to make his 3rd post on....Dracolich? He has volunteered no other opinions seperate from when I asked him directly about Zealos and oneplus, and his post there was STILL the "leaning town" and "fairly scummy" non-commital posting style he's done.
My summary was Day 1 and given the quietness of the thread it would have been hard to make any definite claims about people that early. If I had said I'm sure x is scum then nobody would listen because I'm obviously talking crap. In general I don't like saying people are definitely scum unless it's actually that obvious. Day 1 I was sure Yomi was scum which is why I voted for him and the same Day 2 with Draco. I'm still sure Stossel is scum.
##Vote: Stossel
imallinson has been heavily lurking this game. With 5 days of play gone he has only made 5 posts. Of these, the first post essentially mentioned two players and said that he was unsure of either of them. This added nothing to the game. His first act of any gravity was to vote for yomi but this vote was one of the last votes cast and yomi was already the most likely choice to get lynched.At this point voting for yomi was an extremely safe move for mafia as it was a common choice and a townie would be lynched. Now that we know yomi was townie this vote becomes more suspicious. Alone it might not be much but combined with the lurking and lack of solid posting it becomes suspicious. Looking back at the accusation against yomi, it initially seems to have content but reeally the only thing he used against yomi was Show nested quote +He then tries to defend his vote for maju and doesn't do very well at it. "Why not" isn't a sufficient answer and I'm not buying the pressure vote excuse. It was such a baseless accusation that maju would never felt any real pressure. Again this feels like someone trying to look like he is contributing while not doing anything of the sort. I personally see this accusation: Show nested quote +The asking everyone to post their previous games is strange. If you actually wanted to read through people's previous games you would just go and do it, especially given that the people in this game will have at most 2 other games. This seems to me to be trying to look like he is contributing. as rather weak.
My case against Yomi wasn't the strongest but it was intended to be adding to the cases made by others.
Imallinson recently contributed new ideas with his voting for Dracho (Gossemerr). We can see though that all the information used against Dracho in this post was posted before imallinson's initial list of reads. Why, imallinson, was none of this observed earlier? Also, Dracho was initially imallinson's third choice for scum behind yomi and Zealos. After yomi died Dracho suddenly moved up to first choice over Zealos with no explanation why his suspicions over Zealos diminished. After imallinsons first content filled post he finger of suspicions' Zealos while all the evidence that he later uses to vote Dracholich has already been posted. Also, he posted a lot more evidence against Dracho then against yomi. Assuming allin read everyone's posts carefully, his initial vote should have been for Dracho with yomi as a second choice. Why did that not happen imallinson?
It's mainly because I hadn't paid much attention to Draco Day 1. With Yomi posting so aggressively and the back and forth between you and him his posts didn't register. It was only after I went back over everyone's filters Day 2 that I noticed Draco.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On May 01 2012 00:11 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 21:22 insectoceanx wrote:@Zealos You voted for imallinson before? Why are you voting for me now? @Townspeople We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as Furthermore, the lynching of Arctic only serves to make an imallinson vote more worthwhile. The failure to lynch was not due to lack of suspicion and so scum could've easily kept Arctic alive another night to push imallinson for another lynching if he was town and used their hit to focus on someone else. Because you irritate me big time. How dare you come back after being a complete lurker, only to call the only people who bothered keeping town active mafia.
If you are going to vote for someone make a case for it. Saying someone irritates you isn't going to convince anyone to vote for them which means your vote will be a waste.
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The vote will be a waste anyway considering no one is around to make one. If it looks like we might actually get a lynch done then I'll change it.
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United States22154 Posts
Two updates
1.) For this round of voting people who do not vote will not be counted towards the total of players. (e.g. if we have 10 players and 3 don't vote then I'll pretend there are only 7 players and the majority to lynch will be 4)
2.) Anyone who fails to vote this round will be modkilled and removed. They will be flipped with the night post.
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##Vote: imallinson
Thank you mods <3
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On April 30 2012 10:50 insectoceanx wrote:
Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active.
I originally wanted to wait a bit, but I figured I wouldn't get an explanation for this statement anyways.
Let us examine it. He says that the inactive people did not vote and are therefore not mafia, implying that mafia would have voted for imallinson (as votes on anyone else would have made no difference).
Now, in which situations would mafia vote for imallinson? Certainly, only if he was town, as they would have little reason to bus a scumbuddy if not absolutely necessary.
However, insectoceanx thinks that imallinson is mafia, else he would not vote for him himself. The only explanation I see here is that he made a scumslip: He knows that imallinson is town, and thoughtlessly writes the above knowing that at least he tried to mislynch imallinson.
If anyone has any alternate theories, I'm all ear. For now,
##Vote: insectoceanx
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
@Zealos
I'm not really understanding your voting. Why would people not voting not being counted make you change your vote? Before that I could understand voting for me over insect because I'm much more likely to get 5 votes without everyone voting. You changing your vote after that decision doesn't make much sense to me. It's not necessarily scummy but I can't make much sense of it. Care to explain?
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##Vote: imallinson
Keeping my vote from last time. He still hasn't responded to one of the arguments I quoted and has lurked.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On May 01 2012 05:37 MajuGarzett wrote:
##Vote: imallinson
Keeping my vote from last time. He still hasn't responded to one of the arguments I quoted and has lurked.
I responded to both the posts you quoted.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
Given that my vote will be wasted on Stossel at the moment and insect's recent posting I'm changing my vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: insectocenax
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On May 01 2012 00:11 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 21:22 insectoceanx wrote:@Zealos You voted for imallinson before? Why are you voting for me now? @Townspeople We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as Furthermore, the lynching of Arctic only serves to make an imallinson vote more worthwhile. The failure to lynch was not due to lack of suspicion and so scum could've easily kept Arctic alive another night to push imallinson for another lynching if he was town and used their hit to focus on someone else. Because you irritate me big time. How dare you come back after being a complete lurker, only to call the only people who bothered keeping town active mafia.
I'm sorry I may have said that wrong before. What I meant is that the people who did not vote are probably not mafia. It would seem really unfair if the mods let them get by with lynching people at nignt and not posting anything or voting all day. Therefore by active I meant anyone who has posted anything. I was not meaning to point the finger at the most active of the players.
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EBWOP:
Also since none of the replacements who didnt vote havn't said anything its much harder to form a case against them and get consensus.
Meanwhile imallinson has posted very little of substance and has been a prime subject. He was arcticfox's prime suspect and he was lynched after the failed vote.
On May 01 2012 01:31 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 21:22 insectoceanx wrote:
We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as What exactly is the plan. Because if it is blindly going along the same path as yesterday that isn't helpful. Along with this Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 10:50 insectoceanx wrote:
Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active.
Your recent posting doesn't make much sense unless you are trying to get town to blindly follow you into lynching an easy town target (me).
Why isnt lynching you a good plan? The only reason you werent lynched was because so many people didnt vote. Just because people did not vote all of a sudden proves your innocence?
i don't think all the pages of discussion about you is making the town blindly follow. Of course you are an easy town target as anyone could tell looking at your filter.
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On May 01 2012 05:38 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:37 MajuGarzett wrote:
##Vote: imallinson
Keeping my vote from last time. He still hasn't responded to one of the arguments I quoted and has lurked. I responded to both the posts you quoted.
Ahh, sorry. I was reading quickly before leaving for school and assumed the post ended when you voted.
I'll think about who I'm voting for now. Its hard to accuse people on things other than lurking when they don't post.
I'm not withdrawing my vote yet as I still have suspicions that imallinson may not be telling the truth when he said that he did not look at the filters closely. If there are any good cases my vote may change.
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I'm heading out to a nice dinner, and I may not be back in time to make the Night Post. Day 3 is being extended by 1 hour to 20:00 PDT, just in case. My apologies in advance.
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Night 3:
The Politburo members felt an increasing weariness as the days wore on. Without the Vice President to lead them, they returned to the previous day's discussion, targeting imallinson. Ydriel and Gossemerr took a nap during the proceedings, and the Minister of Security happily threw them both into a locked janitorial closet together.
imallinson, Vanilla Town, was lynched!
Ydriel, Mafia Goon, was modkilled!
Gossemerr, Vanilla Town, was modkilled!
Please PM your night actions to both me and GMarshal. Day 4 will begin in 24 hours, at 19:00 PDT on May 1, 2012.
Vote Count:
imallinson: 4
insectoceanx
Stossel
Zealos
MajuGarzett
insectoceanx: 3
Zealos
ForTheDr3am
oneplus
imallinson
Stossel:
imallinson
Not voting: 2
Ydriel
Gossemerr
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Wow that leaves 4 townies and 2 mafia. Which means after the mafia kill we have one chance to get the vote right.
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@oneplus
Why did you decide to vote for insect last round? You hadn't previously posted much against him and you said that Zealos was your strongest scum read.
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Because it seem impossible to lynch zealos so I go for Insectoceanx, and there you go Immalinson is not a scum thats why I am not going to vote for him.
My current scum read ----> Draco/Zealos and another one is Insectoceanx
Maju and dream if you are town please cooperate to get 1 of them.
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I have already made my analysis between draco who is stossel now and zealos which we have a comfirmed scum between them but none of you figure this out I am sad T.T stop helping the scum to miss lynch town anymore it sucks
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On May 01 2012 17:31 oneplus wrote:
I have already made my analysis between draco who is stossel now and zealos which we have a comfirmed scum between them but none of you figure this out I am sad T.T stop helping the scum to miss lynch town anymore it sucks
What do you mean we have a confirmed scum between them?
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On May 01 2012 07:53 insectoceanx wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 00:11 Zealos wrote:On April 30 2012 21:22 insectoceanx wrote:@Zealos You voted for imallinson before? Why are you voting for me now? @Townspeople We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as Furthermore, the lynching of Arctic only serves to make an imallinson vote more worthwhile. The failure to lynch was not due to lack of suspicion and so scum could've easily kept Arctic alive another night to push imallinson for another lynching if he was town and used their hit to focus on someone else. Because you irritate me big time. How dare you come back after being a complete lurker, only to call the only people who bothered keeping town active mafia. I'm sorry I may have said that wrong before. What I meant is that the people who did not vote are probably not mafia. It would seem really unfair if the mods let them get by with lynching people at nignt and not posting anything or voting all day. Therefore by active I meant anyone who has posted anything. I was not meaning to point the finger at the most active of the players.
It's perfectly possible that there was one of them around in the night or something. I agree that your logic makes sense, but its not flawless. I think a lynch of insect seems pretty sound at this point.
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As the mafia kill approaches I thought I would go through and reasses my reads on all players.
1 Maju
I have been reading him a scum for most the game. But going back through and reading his repsonses and the posts he writes himself I am leaning more towards him being town. He has responded to questions of his guilt/intentions well and hasnt needlessly defended himself.
2. Draco/Stossel
@Stossel: Both you and I voted for imallinson. Now that he turned town what are your current reads for the 2 remaining mafia and why? Right now who would you vote to lynch? Also who is townie for sure?
3. Zealos
Still hasn't posted a cohesive arguement about anything and has had an aggressive stance about everything. As others have pointed out he has always been in the fos but never voted for. Definate cadidate for lynching, perhaps #1.
4 Dream
Voted for imallinson the first time around, second time around voted for me saying that imallinson flipping green would show a scumslip on my part. If dream is mafia himself he is trying to get town cred calling the green flip and throw me under the bus at the same time. This wouldnt stand out to me as mafia unless he hadnt just voted imallinson the day before without posting any reason at all for his change except to pick me out as mafia mislynching a townie.
@Dream: What changed that you no longer thought imallinson was scum?
5oneplus
My number one townread this game. Has stuck to his guns on Zealos for entire game and but still has had good posts regarding other players.
@oneplus: Who do you think the next player to lynch should be? I trust your judgement over everyone elses at this point.
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Day 4:
Fewer phones rang. Fewer lights stayed on. Fewer men breathed. They were all intelligent, and they knew what was going to happen tonight. oneplus, the Minister of Security, sat in his chair, softly humming the patriotic songs of the People's Liberation Army. His service pistol lay at hand's reach, but it would not save his life. As his killers came for him, he silently hoped that he had served his people well.
When the next day dawned, only five men sat at a table meant for a far larger number. Two of them were traitors, with the blood of a half-dozen illustrious men at their hands. But who? Both sides knew that unless that question was answered correctly today, the long ordeal would be over.
oneplus, Town Vigilante, was killed!
It is now Day 4. The deadline is in 48 hours, 19:00 PST on 5/1/12. Remember to vote in this thread. Proper formatting is ##Vote: <NAME>
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On May 02 2012 08:52 insectoceanx wrote:
4 Dream
Voted for imallinson the first time around, second time around voted for me saying that imallinson flipping green would show a scumslip on my part. If dream is mafia himself he is trying to get town cred calling the green flip and throw me under the bus at the same time. This wouldnt stand out to me as mafia unless he hadnt just voted imallinson the day before without posting any reason at all for his change except to pick me out as mafia mislynching a townie.
@Dream: What changed that you no longer thought imallinson was scum?
Your scumslip was saying (or implying) that the replacements would have voted for imallinson if they were mafia, as I explained before. The post with why I voted for imallison is this one:
Frankly, I don't like voting with so many people still not having posted anything. I don't really feel like choosing imallinson for his lurking alone is a particularly strong reason and it bothers me that everybody that votes for him just says that. At the risk of repeating myself, I originally found him more suspicious than others because his posts (especially his latest post) had the most fluff, giving me the impression that they were made to pretend to contribute. Now he apparently completely disappeared together with a bunch of others though, and I have to wonder how much that notion of mine is actually worth. Still, I have to make a decision now and I would rather take a shot at him than risk a no-lynch.
I did say why I originally suspected him, but didn't feel much different towards him than towards other lurkers at that point anymore. Still, lynching a lurker was a better alternative to a no-lynch (even though the no-lynch happened) and as a side note, has been your reasoning as to why you voted for him as well (as well as many others).
I also want to mention another part of your post:
On May 02 2012 08:52 insectoceanx wrote:
5oneplus
My number one townread this game. Has stuck to his guns on Zealos for entire game and but still has had good posts regarding other players.
@oneplus: Who do you think the next player to lynch should be? I trust your judgement over everyone elses at this point.
Which is very obviously insincere and shows that you are just making your reads up. Nevermind the fact that oneplus hasn't posted anything too substantial for quite a while, he voted for you the last day and yet you apparently trust his judgement. That is definitely not what a townie would ever say.
##Vote: insectoceanx
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No one has posted anything too substantial in a while which is part of the problem. Townies only have one chance to get a correct lynch tonight or else the mafia wins. Now all of a sudden you launch an attack on me. I think you are the pot calling the kettle black.
I want to hear from everyone in this thread, we have 3 townies and 2 scum left. We are never going to figure out who is who if everyone is silent.
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Well, insect, you have seemed pretty suspicious recently, so instead of making blanket claims, you could defend yourself from Dr3ams case, because atm:
##Vote: insectoceanx
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United States22154 Posts
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Well zealos there really isnt that much to say about dream. His filter is only one page long. He posted a case on draco on the 23rd to 25th of april and since then he really hasnt posted anything that takes a solid stand on anything.
Again In ask stossel and maju to get in here and post. We cant separate the scum without you!
What is dramas case? 3 players did not vote, there are still curently still 3 scum alive. I say that the 3 who did not vote cant all be scum. The next night 2 of them do not vote again, 1 is not scum and 1 is. My point held true, that in our lynch all lurker mindset we were targeting townies that were inactive, while scum was able to post and be respected as a valued townie just because they were active.
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I agree with the last part of Dream's argument against insect. It does seem odd to completely trust someone who wanted to lynch you the day before.
Your scumslip was saying (or implying) that the replacements would have voted for imallinson if they were mafia, as I explained before. The post with why I voted for imallison is this one:
I don't see how this is a scumslip. Its a true statement.
I want to see Stossel post. I had my suspicions on Dracholich and they did not disappear with the player change. I also want Zealos to explain his votes in more detail. He says insect has seemed suspicious but doesn't day why.
I would like to point out that insect defended against no point of dream's case. Insect merely gave facts about Dream then moved to other topics. Give a real defense, insect, or I may have to vote for you.
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On May 03 2012 10:47 insectoceanx wrote:
What is dramas case? 3 players did not vote, there are still curently still 3 scum alive. I say that the 3 who did not vote cant all be scum. The next night 2 of them do not vote again, 1 is not scum and 1 is. My point held true, that in our lynch all lurker mindset we were targeting townies that were inactive, while scum was able to post and be respected as a valued townie just because they were active.
You assume this lynch all lurker mindset is bad because you believe that the mafia would all be active. Well, lo and behold when the modkills came out, we saw that even a mafia member was inactive/lurking. Now I'm not saying we haven't made bad calls, the results speak for themselves, but flying under the radar is a viable tactic and is one we're right to look out for, especially in the first few days. This is why it's so important for townies to be active in the first few days so that mafia feel the pressure to be active as well and thus increase their chances of scumslipping.
My top scumread is Insect, and it didn't solidify until Dr3am's post and here's why:
Dr3am came on strong early and then kind of petered out late. I wasn't sure if he was trying to establish himself townie and then fly under the radar or what. It's true that his filter isn't impressive in quantity but a few good posts beats a bunch of fluff.
However, what Dr3am has going for him is that his accusations are fearless and they make sense. At other times this could mean anything, but tonight it means quite a bit more. If we lynch a townie tonight we lose. In providing such a strong accusation, Dr3am is either fairly convinced you're scum or he's scum himself. It would not make sense for Dr3am and insect to both be scum because if Dr3am bussed insect, he'd have to risk another day convincing someone to vote for someone else, not to mention risk his KP on someone with protection (however low that risk may be).
Insect's attitude toward Oneplus is what seals it for me. He's trying to latch onto what he sees as a respected townie so he can himself appear town. This is a "safe" move, but ruined, as Dr3am points out, by Oneplus's own suspicions.
So combining Insect's scumslips with my townread of Dr3am, I'm willing to vote for Insect.
##Vote: Insectoceanx
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By saying I trusted oneplusses judgement was to say that I would trust his next target for a scumread. Yes he had suspicions on me, but just because he did it didn't change the fact that I was sure he was town. I was really hoping to get another post from oneplus before he was killed but that didnt happen.
With the statement I made about the people who did not vote. Yes I assumed, perhaps wrongly that if they had voted at least one or more would have voted for imallinson, if i am scum I wouldve known that imallinson would flip green and other mafia would vote for him most likely, but if i am not mafia and do not know what imallinson was It is still a safe assumption and was my assumption that imallinson was either scum or just posted so badly as to warrant a lynch, something that enough people believed in with me to lynch him again the next night.
If I was mafia why would I be trying to get everyone to talk since the last night. I would probably be doing what dream is doing and trying to throw someone I know to be town down. I admit my posting wasnt the best and I made myself into an easy target. I am not mafia and you will see that once you vote for me. I'm going to vote for dream and I'll be back again later to answer any questions.
##Vote: ForTheDr3am
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Wait, did you only vote for him because he voted for you?
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No I voted for him because I am town and he started the votes against me. If someone else has a better candidate I would consider switching.
FTD had been concentrating on Draco and then was pretty quiet. He voted for imallinson once and then when it looked like imallinson would get lynched the second time around he switched his vote to agaisnt me without much else of a reason.
I was trying to put off voting until everyone else got in here and also made some suggestions but as it is no one else is voting, so I'm going to vote for one of my top 2 suspects, FTD and zealos.
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You assume this lynch all lurker mindset is bad because you believe that the mafia would all be active. Well, lo and behold when the modkills came out, we saw that even a mafia member was inactive/lurking. Now I'm not saying we haven't made bad calls, the results speak for themselves, but flying under the radar is a viable tactic and is one we're right to look out for, especially in the first few days. This is why it's so important for townies to be active in the first few days so that mafia feel the pressure to be active as well and thus increase their chances of scumslipping.
I never said all the mafia would be active, some of it. The problem with the lynch all lurker attitude was that the whole town was not active. We lynched imallinson due to his inactivity and it bit us in the face. Then 2 people didnt vote 2 days in a row, with stossel not voting once. So yes lynch all lurkers could be good if everyone was active besides just a few people, but the level of inactivity in here could let mafia post one or two good posts that never have to be really backed up, and then just coast out to victory. Especially after we lost 2 of 12 players to inactivity which if it hadnt happened wouldve been another whole day/night cycle.
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On April 30 2012 10:50 insectoceanx wrote:
Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active.
This is the quote I was referring too, and nothing in it implies that you only meant that not all of the replacements are mafia. You still haven't bothered to address my original case, which was this quote:
+ Show Spoiler +On May 01 2012 04:09 ForTheDr3am wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2012 10:50 insectoceanx wrote:
Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active.
I originally wanted to wait a bit, but I figured I wouldn't get an explanation for this statement anyways. Let us examine it. He says that the inactive people did not vote and are therefore not mafia, implying that mafia would have voted for imallinson (as votes on anyone else would have made no difference). Now, in which situations would mafia vote for imallinson? Certainly, only if he was town, as they would have little reason to bus a scumbuddy if not absolutely necessary. However, insectoceanx thinks that imallinson is mafia, else he would not vote for him himself. The only explanation I see here is that he made a scumslip: He knows that imallinson is town, and thoughtlessly writes the above knowing that at least he tried to mislynch imallinson. If anyone has any alternate theories, I'm all ear. For now, ##Vote: insectoceanx
Instead you attack me for making cases against you, claiming that I voted for you without much of a reason. Apart from the fact that I did gave reasons, oneplus actually voted for you without stating anything, and I did not see you noticing that. Him having suspicions of you doesn't change the fact that he is still town, while it makes me scum in your eyes. Fascinating.
Your entire defence (and offence) is based on "I am town, so he who votes for me is scum", in a very unconvincing manner to boot.
If I was mafia why would I be trying to get everyone to talk since the last night. I would probably be doing what dream is doing and trying to throw someone I know to be town down. I admit my posting wasnt the best and I made myself into an easy target. I am not mafia and you will see that once you vote for me. I'm going to vote for dream and I'll be back again later to answer any questions.
You accuse me of trying to just get people to bandwagon you (I did post my reasoning), while your vote(s) against imallinson are explained by you in the following manner.
+ Show Spoiler +I agree we need consensus to do this. Anyone who does not agree/imallinson lets hear from you.
##Vote: imallinson Well we still need to vote to lynch someone tomorrow. I feel we should still lynch imallinson, unless everyone has a different cadidate or he can convince us otherwise. It was the plan before, and I think would have gone through if all the replacements weren't inactive.
Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active.
My List:
imallinson
maju
zealos
##Vote: imallinson
@Zealos
You voted for imallinson before? Why are you voting for me now?
@Townspeople
We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as
Furthermore, the lynching of Arctic only serves to make an imallinson vote more worthwhile. The failure to lynch was not due to lack of suspicion and so scum could've easily kept Arctic alive another night to push imallinson for another lynching if he was town and used their hit to focus on someone else. On May 01 2012 08:07 insectoceanx wrote:EBWOP: Also since none of the replacements who didnt vote havn't said anything its much harder to form a case against them and get consensus. Meanwhile imallinson has posted very little of substance and has been a prime subject. He was arcticfox's prime suspect and he was lynched after the failed vote. Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 01:31 imallinson wrote:On April 30 2012 21:22 insectoceanx wrote:
We all need consensus to get a lynch through, as stossel said above me, sticking to the plan is important as What exactly is the plan. Because if it is blindly going along the same path as yesterday that isn't helpful. Along with this On April 30 2012 10:50 insectoceanx wrote:
Also, since the replacements did not vote, the mafia must be someone who is still active.
Your recent posting doesn't make much sense unless you are trying to get town to blindly follow you into lynching an easy town target (me). Why isnt lynching you a good plan? The only reason you werent lynched was because so many people didnt vote. Just because people did not vote all of a sudden proves your innocence? i don't think all the pages of discussion about you is making the town blindly follow. Of course you are an easy town target as anyone could tell looking at your filter.
What of all that is not blatant bandwagoning/pushing people without giving much information?
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EBWOP: 'You still haven't bothered to address my original apart from that.'
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EBWOP²: 'You still haven't bothered to address my original case apart from that.'
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Night 4:
"At last we reach a consensus..."
"Indeed, we will finally have justice."
Each member of the Politburo had made up his or her mind. But when insectoceanx died, he revealed no treacherous secrets or murderous intent.
The four men glanced at one another. Some eyes were nervous, others resigned, others jubilant.
Stossel and Zealos exchanged a nod, then pulled knives from their coats. The last innocents were mercilessly killed with a single stab apiece.
"Well, now we will have justice, indeed... preferably overseas."
"Indeed."
Mafia victory!
Final Votecount:
insectoceanx: 3
ForTheDr3am
Zealos
Stossel
ForTheDr3am: 1
insectoceanx
Not voting: 1
MajuGarzett
Setup and notes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai5bQA89fjHvdEVWb3hkc05MZGJuZ3pvQWRiQm9wSVE
ObsQT: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/dKcdbhRnDzkRu
Mafia QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/V3TMDSdqKzXMW
I'd like to thank GMarshal and everyone who played or watched this game. It was a pleasure to cohost, and I hope everyone involved had fun
I will try to write some comments and opinions about the game.
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United States22154 Posts
Inactivity made me really sad, because I had planned a postgame analysis to make up for the fact that I made MG do all the night/day posts. Here is the postgame analysis
Town play:
Inactivity is bad, being inactive kills town. Vigis shooting the most active town player also dosen't exactly help
Scum play:
Inactive towns are fun, because you can just post a little and win for free!
I'm unhappy -__-
Also thanks MG for cohosting, you hardly complained and I basically made you do everything, sorry about that ^_^
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Well, the ScumQT was fascinating at least. And I liked the flavour posts.
I never could convince myself to read Draco's filter.
Mutant on Draco: "Also, your post is hard to read. Like, really hard. Did you do this on purpose?"
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Sorry about that game guys. I think the inactivity combined with the Draco replacement really messed things up. I felt like I pretty much got a free pass when I came in. Wish I had more to do but with the inactivity all I was looking to do was coast.
As my first game, I felt really bad about scumreading people I knew were innocent. I'll definitely have to get over that!
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To the players (specifically town):
Did you utilize your coaches? You were spoilt for choice this game with some of our best players volunteering to coach. With over 60 games worth of experience between them, their advice would have been invaluable.
I made 2/3 of the mafia team within the first hours of D1, but was stumped as to the 3rd (mutant/Ydriel), until he was mod-killed.
I enjoyed reading this game, even though it was marred by heavy inactivity.
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Wait wait, arcticfox was shot by the vigi 
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ArcticFox was shot by everyone :3
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Sorry to everyone, and Midnight and GM in particular.
Well played by my replacement. Good job Zealos.
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Zealos was a really flailing, obvious mafia but other than that I thought two townies were mafia. I struggle differentiating townies who make no sense at all from mafia, especially when I've never seen the players in question playing before. Me and sandroba were quite sure that forthedream was mafia, oh well
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I guess this is also a lesson in making assumptions and then not re-evaluating. We saw certain connections and coordination between the players we thought were mafia, which turned out to be coincidental.
e: as in, we didn't even bother reading the rest of the fitlers after we assumed that =P
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lol the theme of the newbie games continues!
One guy's activeish, dies somehow, then the scum do nothing and win.
pretty sad actually :/
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Oh man this game was so frustrating. Beyond frustrating. >< So frustrating that I'm taking a break from mafia for a while because of it. Which is fine, I need to focus on my SC2 anyway. I'll keep lurking and watching though. ^_^
I had Zealos made Day 1 (like everyone else on the planet), but I never pushed him. yomi came out of the gate acting like a crazy person (i.e. -- exactly how he did in SMMVIII) and I was just so sure he was scum right up until about 2 hours to deadline. That close to deadline though, I couldn't be sure that he wasn't just a scum begging for his life. =/
Night 1 I made a misstep in mentioning that we should shut up, when really, the game was too inactive to merit that.
Day 2. The Hell day. Nobody was posting. It was annoying. Still had Zealos made, his posting didn't really improve at all until I thread-coached him into it. imallinson was just inactive as hell (and ALSO playing just like SMMVIII) but Zealos should have been the obvious candidate anyway.
I pushed imallinson because I thought both he and Zealos were scum, and I could lynch one today and set up a lynch on the other the next. By the time I woke up the next day I realized that I had made a mistake, but there was NO WAY to get the vote changed over to Zealos by then. Hell, the thread wasn't even active enough to get imallinson lynched, let alone get the vote switched over to someone new. (more on this later)
And Night 2 I was dead. I was mafia shot, roleblocked (which I don't think stops vet? really wish I had been though. ), AND vigi shot. VIGI SHOT. Really, I was your scummiest choice?
I PM'd 3 different people for coaching. sandroba gave me some solid advice with a "there's enough information in the thread for you to find the scum, fuck the discussion, they're going to keep lurking, just PUSH PUSH PUSH." -- I just took that advice and pushed the wrong guy. XD But it was still good advice, I was too passive after I had someone made.
wherebugsgo gets coach MVP though. He took the time to go through a meandering book of a post I sent him and answer every one of my points individually, and give me a real direction to go. My next game is going to be much, MUCH stronger due to his advice and I send many thanks and your favorite alcoholic beverage your way. <3
As a final note, I really, REALLY am against the idea of an extended majority lynch in newbie games. It's hard enough for town to reach a consensus, even when everyone's playing -- just 3 people going inactive made it more or less impossible for town to get anything done until the lynching rules were changed Day 3. Day 2 I wanted to get the vote switched to Zealos so bad, but with 12 hours left and an inactive town, it was literally impossible to do so, while I could have managed it in a Plurality Lynch.
Either way, I did at least have some fun (until about middle of Day 2) even if inactivity did screw the game for town. I also learned a ton from the coaches. Thanks to GM and Midnight for putting this on and dealing with the frustration of having to find a million replacements. ^_^
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United Kingdom36158 Posts
That may be the worst vig shot I've seen yet in TL Mafia
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I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
I felt bad shooting you Arctic. Real bad, you were the only one really posting much of anything.
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United Kingdom36158 Posts
On May 04 2012 21:57 Zealos wrote:
I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
I felt bad shooting you Arctic. Real bad, you were the only one really posting much of anything.
Zealos, you are remarkably easy to get a read on
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I don't know why I felt like playing so damn aggressive haha.
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On May 04 2012 21:57 Zealos wrote:
I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
I felt bad shooting you Arctic. Real bad, you were the only one really posting much of anything.
lol, hey, that's how the game goes. If you're mafia, you take out the top townies and make the rest sheep you. You did what you needed to to win.
I will say you got crazy lucky N1 with that medic hit, else I would have made your Day 3 a living hell. 
Of course, even as vet I would have been dead N2 since I got vig shot and mafia shot. So many bullet holes. x.x
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This is so sad T.T I wan a lynch between draco and zealos since day2. Well sorry Arctic i shoot you because you are not supporting my proposal which is lynch between draco and zealos which make me think that you are in their gang.
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The problem with your case, oneplus, that it was based on a hypothesis on those that did not vote for Yomi. I don't understand how you could imagine a case from there, and with you among them with you saying "I am not mafia". You did this hypothesis after focusing on those that voted for Yomi. It wasn't really a case. With both Zealos and I making huge risks of Yomi not being lynched should have paid off, since it was very unscummy. Insect secured the lynch at the last moment, not Zealos or I.
It is more odd than the case from mallinson against me. Both easy to tear apart. Problem as I see it, is that town didn't do anything at all with the information being presented to them, and seemed like lost most of the game, and mostly asked someone else - "What do you think?", which in general meant they were lost, and didn't even bother to read what had been written and make an analysis of probability from there. Same goes with the most active Town player.
MVP for me was Stossel and with a wide margin. I know this game was hard, due to erratic plays, inactivity, replacements, but town seemed paralyzed for the most part.
The ending was poetic though; justice will prevail. A tear appeared in the corner of my eye, when FTD made a case against Insect.
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On May 05 2012 00:03 oneplus wrote:
This is so sad T.T I wan a lynch between draco and zealos since day2. Well sorry Arctic i shoot you because you are not supporting my proposal which is lynch between draco and zealos which make me think that you are in their gang.
First off, I was totally for a Zealos lynch. By the time you showed up in the day though, it was way too late to get the vote switched off (again, Extended Majority Lynch sucks T_T), so I stuck with the vote I thought I could get pushed through, seeing as I thought both were scum. Draco I wasn't sure about just yet, but I was getting there.
Second....why not shoot either Draco or Zealos then?!?!?! Shooting me made absolutely no sense. T_T
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I tried reading through the posts, but I don't get it.
Can someone give me a "For Dummies" explanation of this game. I wanna try.
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United States22154 Posts
On May 05 2012 00:15 b0mBerMan wrote:
I tried reading through the posts, but I don't get it.
Can someone give me a "For Dummies" explanation of this game. I wanna try.
Here!
(and if its "too long to read" then you probably aren't cut out for mafia :-P)
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United Kingdom36158 Posts
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United Kingdom36158 Posts
Or what GMarshal linked
I'm happy to answer any questions if you wanna PM me though. Bear in mind I'm not a gosu player or anything ^^
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On May 04 2012 11:54 Stossel wrote:
As my first game, I felt really bad about scumreading people I knew were innocent. I'll definitely have to get over that!
I know what you mean. I got three townies killed in my first game and two of them didn't really deserve it
Inactivity is town's fault though. The only player you should really feel sorry for in this game is ArcticFox.
On May 04 2012 12:30 Adam4167 wrote:
I made 2/3 of the mafia team within the first hours of D1, but was stumped as to the 3rd (mutant/Ydriel), until he was mod-killed.
Draco's first post was one of the scummiest I've seen. List-summary of the game, vague criticism of town, dissuading people from posting, giving no opinions on anyone. Zealos was a great night 1 vig shot - even if he was town, he was just going to waste a lynch.
Unfortunately the remaining three townies at LYLO all played scummy from day 2 onwards, so even Zealos wasn't looking like certain scum at the end, what with Mutant bussing him. I think if I read a similar game in the future I'll put a much stronger priority on my day 1 reads.
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Yeah, spot on Jaj.
That first post from Dracholic pinged my scum radar badly. On top of everything you mentioned, it also emphasized how new he was and discouraged aggression from townies.
The main mark against Zealos from my perspective was that he just seemed to lack any drive to find scum. I mean being obnoxious and obstructive to town isn't helpful, but we have several regular players that are known for doing that as town, so that alone isn't indicative of him being scum.
I figured the 3rd scum had to be either bussing the two scum id already found or completely inactive, turns out it was both. Had I been playing in this game, id have led the lynch on the first two, see who was hesitant to play along, then they die next.
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On May 04 2012 21:57 Zealos wrote:
I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
On May 04 2012 23:30 Zealos wrote:
I don't know why I felt like playing so damn aggressive haha.
A note here: Aggression and obnoxiousness can and should be separated. Aggression is a town trait, while obnoxiousness without genuine aggression is a scum trait. Players posting abusive one-liners rather than clear accusations should be considered scummy.
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Draco's first post was one of the scummiest I've seen. List-summary of the game, vague criticism of town, dissuading people from posting, giving no opinions on anyone. Zealos was a great night 1 vig shot - even if he was town, he was just going to waste a lynch.
Yeah, I have never played this game before and tried to both act against what I thought was great happening in the thread, and to divert attention from the Zealos attention. A clear lack of experience.
However, I did find it odd that acting against what I thought was the best way, was perceived as scummy. Guess what works best is saying "I am scum", and this reversed psychology works wonders.
Guess this game isn't my game. Though my warnings of obfuscation apparently worked while I obfuscated.
I figured the 3rd scum had to be either bussing the two scum id already found or completely inactive, turns out it was both. Had I been playing in this game, id have led the lynch on the first two, see who was hesitant to play along, then they die next. I would have loved, if you would have been in the game then.
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On May 05 2012 02:16 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:57 Zealos wrote:
I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 23:30 Zealos wrote:
I don't know why I felt like playing so damn aggressive haha.
A note here: Aggression and obnoxiousness can and should be separated. Aggression is a town trait, while obnoxiousness without genuine aggression is a scum trait. Players posting abusive one-liners rather than clear accusations should be considered scummy. All traits can be simulated.
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I wrongly assumed he was actually shot for being somewhat on the right track, blue sniping seems so silly
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Well, also that.
More or less, among the people on track, we though he was the most likely to be blue.
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Mutant answers are pretty spot on. There were a lot of reasons for the Nreekay kill. The element of surprise of killing him was one.
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On May 05 2012 06:25 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:16 jaj22 wrote:On May 04 2012 21:57 Zealos wrote:
I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
On May 04 2012 23:30 Zealos wrote:
I don't know why I felt like playing so damn aggressive haha.
A note here: Aggression and obnoxiousness can and should be separated. Aggression is a town trait, while obnoxiousness without genuine aggression is a scum trait. Players posting abusive one-liners rather than clear accusations should be considered scummy. All traits can be simulated.
They certainly can. However, there's a strong tendency for scum to play a quieter game for fear of making mistakes, and it's largely justified. The more content you post, the harder it is to keep your story straight. The longer you're in the spotlight, the more likely it is that someone notices your mistakes.
The best way to play aggressive as scum is to do what Mutant tried: Call your scumbuddies as you'd see them as town. The disadvantage is that you can anger your scumbuddies and even end up using your hidden knowledge against your team. Sometimes your scumbuddies aren't as scummy as they look to you.
Mutant totally killed my reads though. I normally rely on connection play with newbie games because newbie townies play so damn scummy
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On May 04 2012 23:36 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 21:57 Zealos wrote:
I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
I felt bad shooting you Arctic. Real bad, you were the only one really posting much of anything. lol, hey, that's how the game goes. If you're mafia, you take out the top townies and make the rest sheep you. You did what you needed to to win. I will say you got crazy lucky N1 with that medic hit, else I would have made your Day 3 a living hell. Of course, even as vet I would have been dead N2 since I got vig shot and mafia shot. So many bullet holes. x.x Here is mine line of thinking, ArcticFox:
1) Had Mutant continued playing, you would have been a bad kill, because you thought him to be very likely town. And being desperate, you needed to count on some.
2) The kill on you only meant a very little bit, because you were nearly the only active at the time it happened. Basically to kill the motivation of the town.
3) However, you really didn't do anything, but post. As active as you were, you could have pretty much been the driving force of the town(with FTD away), but you never were, just most active, and therefore most likely town, with few gonna question that. I hope you understand what I mean with this. If you thought you were gonna be killed, you should have guided the town somewhere other than inactivity(for the most part). Mafia basically just continued with that.
4) It was crazy lucky that Insect voted for Yomi. I had forgotten about the majority vote, and wasn't online after I gave my vote, so never read Scum QT till next day. That Nreekay was medic was a lucky hit, bluerole, not so much. He was aimed at for being read as one of the best players, though hadn't participated much, and what I thought was a breadcrumb - furthermore with little notice of him - and him on to Zealos, made him a good early kill - and most of my focus throughout was finding blueroles. It can't be done with so little without luck, and we were lucky to some degree, but not as much as you thought throughout, and you should have delved more into the kill, rather than just thinking it was a lucky hit, and now you could die.
I really felt sorry for you, and from what you say, you have spent a lot of time into the game,but as it seems you didn't trust your own gut very much. And though I am more than certain wherebugsgo, have been a superb help in himself, it seemed to have a paralyzing effect on you. Of course I do take into account that your premises were very poor, and motivation would be hard.
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On May 05 2012 08:20 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2012 23:36 ArcticFox wrote:On May 04 2012 21:57 Zealos wrote:
I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
I felt bad shooting you Arctic. Real bad, you were the only one really posting much of anything. lol, hey, that's how the game goes. If you're mafia, you take out the top townies and make the rest sheep you. You did what you needed to to win. I will say you got crazy lucky N1 with that medic hit, else I would have made your Day 3 a living hell. Of course, even as vet I would have been dead N2 since I got vig shot and mafia shot. So many bullet holes. x.x Here is mine line of thinking, ArcticFox: 1) Had Mutant continued playing, you would have been a bad kill, because you thought him to be very likely town. And being desperate, you needed to count on some. 2) The kill on you only meant a very little bit, because you were nearly the only active at the time it happened. Basically to kill the motivation of the town. 3) However, you really didn't do anything, but post. As active as you were, you could have pretty much been the driving force of the town(with FTD away), but you never were, just most active, and therefore most likely town, with few gonna question that. I hope you understand what I mean with this. If you thought you were gonna be killed, you should have guided the town somewhere other than inactivity(for the most part). Mafia basically just continued with that. 4) It was crazy lucky that Insect voted for Yomi. I had forgotten about the majority vote, and wasn't online after I gave my vote, so never read Scum QT till next day. That Nreekay was medic was a lucky hit, bluerole, not so much. He was aimed at for being read as one of the best players, though hadn't participated much, and what I thought was a breadcrumb - furthermore with little notice of him - and him on to Zealos, made him a good early kill - and most of my focus throughout was finding blueroles. It can't be done with so little without luck, and we were lucky to some degree, but not as much as you thought throughout, and you should have delved more into the kill, rather than just thinking it was a lucky hit, and now you could die. I really felt sorry for you, and from what you say, you have spent a lot of time into the game,but as it seems you didn't trust your own gut very much. And though I am more than certain wherebugsgo, have been a superb help in himself, it seemed to have a paralyzing effect on you. Of course I do take into account that your premises were very poor, and motivation would be hard.
I didn't send messages to wbg until Night 2, where I was already fucked. XD And let me quote something from that PM that I sent him:
"My weakness, on the other hand, is that my analysis skills are piss poor -- being the towniest town that ever towned a town is fucking useless if I sheep the town into lynching other town every time. Right now, based on what I perceive as "scum", over half the town could be scum."
As JJ was mentioning earlier, I need to stick to my Day 1 reads harder and push those -- Zealos and Draco/Stossel would have been lynched Day 2 and 3 in that case. I end up WIFOMing and second-guessing myself all day. I didn't have anyone to bounce ideas off of either and keep me on the right track, because the only other person talking was scum. -_-
That's why we have newbie games though, to learn.
At least I didn't quit halfway through the game like some people. *glares in your general direction*
And actually, I also *was* the driving force in town, just, as mentioned, my scumreading skills were godawful. I got yomi lynched D1, and I did my damnedest on Day 2 to get imallinson lynched, just nobody showed up to finish it off. =/
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On May 05 2012 06:23 Dracolich70 wrote:Show nested quote +
Draco's first post was one of the scummiest I've seen. List-summary of the game, vague criticism of town, dissuading people from posting, giving no opinions on anyone. Zealos was a great night 1 vig shot - even if he was town, he was just going to waste a lynch.
Yeah, I have never played this game before and tried to both act against what I thought was great happening in the thread, and to divert attention from the Zealos attention. A clear lack of experience. However, I did find it odd that acting against what I thought was the best way, was perceived as scummy. Guess what works best is saying "I am scum", and this reversed psychology works wonders. Guess this game isn't my game. Though my warnings of obfuscation apparently worked while I obfuscated. Show nested quote +I figured the 3rd scum had to be either bussing the two scum id already found or completely inactive, turns out it was both. Had I been playing in this game, id have led the lynch on the first two, see who was hesitant to play along, then they die next. I would have loved, if you would have been in the game then.
We aren't shitting on your game, you're expected to be somewhat obvious to more experienced players as a first or second gamer.
We are pointing out to the town player that if they see posts like your first one in the future, they should react accordingly.
What comes naturally to newer scum is being passive, not making enemies, posting very neutral content. Basically keeping your head down while the town implodes. That is why we are looking for those very traits, hence why your first post caught our interest.
I heavily encourage you to sign up again, this 'is your game'. You (and your replacement) managed to survive the entire duration of the game, without attracting many votes along the way. That's your goal as scum, and you achieved it. It will be much more challenging next game, when you're faced with a more active town, but give it a try and see if you get hooked like most of us.
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On May 05 2012 09:51 ArcticFox wrote:
"Right now, based on what I perceive as "scum", over half the town could be scum."
Well, you were my only remaining town read by the end of day 2, so I'd say that's accurate
If the whole town is playing scummy, all you can really do is pick a lynch and try to force it through. At least then it has less chance of being scum's choice of a lynch. However, in this game, there wasn't anything you could have done after the medic nightkill. It would have been impossible to lynch scum on day 2 due to the lurking and the majority rules.
And actually, I also *was* the driving force in town, just, as mentioned, my scumreading skills were godawful. I got yomi lynched D1, and I did my damnedest on Day 2 to get imallinson lynched, just nobody showed up to finish it off. =/
I think your biggest mistake in this game by far was your scum meta read on Yomi. I can't be sure what you're getting wrong there, but the basic principle of a one-game read is to look for the differences, not the similarities. It's the same person posting, so there will always be similarities. Yomi's play in this game was odd, but far townier by most metrics than his play in the last game.
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On May 05 2012 09:51 ArcticFox wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 08:20 Dracolich70 wrote:On May 04 2012 23:36 ArcticFox wrote:On May 04 2012 21:57 Zealos wrote:
I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
I felt bad shooting you Arctic. Real bad, you were the only one really posting much of anything. lol, hey, that's how the game goes. If you're mafia, you take out the top townies and make the rest sheep you. You did what you needed to to win. I will say you got crazy lucky N1 with that medic hit, else I would have made your Day 3 a living hell. Of course, even as vet I would have been dead N2 since I got vig shot and mafia shot. So many bullet holes. x.x Here is mine line of thinking, ArcticFox: 1) Had Mutant continued playing, you would have been a bad kill, because you thought him to be very likely town. And being desperate, you needed to count on some. 2) The kill on you only meant a very little bit, because you were nearly the only active at the time it happened. Basically to kill the motivation of the town. 3) However, you really didn't do anything, but post. As active as you were, you could have pretty much been the driving force of the town(with FTD away), but you never were, just most active, and therefore most likely town, with few gonna question that. I hope you understand what I mean with this. If you thought you were gonna be killed, you should have guided the town somewhere other than inactivity(for the most part). Mafia basically just continued with that. 4) It was crazy lucky that Insect voted for Yomi. I had forgotten about the majority vote, and wasn't online after I gave my vote, so never read Scum QT till next day. That Nreekay was medic was a lucky hit, bluerole, not so much. He was aimed at for being read as one of the best players, though hadn't participated much, and what I thought was a breadcrumb - furthermore with little notice of him - and him on to Zealos, made him a good early kill - and most of my focus throughout was finding blueroles. It can't be done with so little without luck, and we were lucky to some degree, but not as much as you thought throughout, and you should have delved more into the kill, rather than just thinking it was a lucky hit, and now you could die. I really felt sorry for you, and from what you say, you have spent a lot of time into the game,but as it seems you didn't trust your own gut very much. And though I am more than certain wherebugsgo, have been a superb help in himself, it seemed to have a paralyzing effect on you. Of course I do take into account that your premises were very poor, and motivation would be hard. I didn't send messages to wbg until Night 2, where I was already fucked. XD And let me quote something from that PM that I sent him: "My weakness, on the other hand, is that my analysis skills are piss poor -- being the towniest town that ever towned a town is fucking useless if I sheep the town into lynching other town every time. Right now, based on what I perceive as "scum", over half the town could be scum." As JJ was mentioning earlier, I need to stick to my Day 1 reads harder and push those -- Zealos and Draco/Stossel would have been lynched Day 2 and 3 in that case. I end up WIFOMing and second-guessing myself all day. I didn't have anyone to bounce ideas off of either and keep me on the right track, because the only other person talking was scum. -_- That's why we have newbie games though, to learn. At least I didn't quit halfway through the game like some people. *glares in your general direction*And actually, I also *was* the driving force in town, just, as mentioned, my scumreading skills were godawful. I got yomi lynched D1, and I did my damnedest on Day 2 to get imallinson lynched, just nobody showed up to finish it off. =/ Yeah, I emoraged, and quit.
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On May 05 2012 11:35 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:23 Dracolich70 wrote:
Draco's first post was one of the scummiest I've seen. List-summary of the game, vague criticism of town, dissuading people from posting, giving no opinions on anyone. Zealos was a great night 1 vig shot - even if he was town, he was just going to waste a lynch.
Yeah, I have never played this game before and tried to both act against what I thought was great happening in the thread, and to divert attention from the Zealos attention. A clear lack of experience. However, I did find it odd that acting against what I thought was the best way, was perceived as scummy. Guess what works best is saying "I am scum", and this reversed psychology works wonders. Guess this game isn't my game. Though my warnings of obfuscation apparently worked while I obfuscated. I figured the 3rd scum had to be either bussing the two scum id already found or completely inactive, turns out it was both. Had I been playing in this game, id have led the lynch on the first two, see who was hesitant to play along, then they die next. I would have loved, if you would have been in the game then. We aren't shitting on your game, you're expected to be somewhat obvious to more experienced players as a first or second gamer. We are pointing out to the town player that if they see posts like your first one in the future, they should react accordingly. What comes naturally to newer scum is being passive, not making enemies, posting very neutral content. Basically keeping your head down while the town implodes. That is why we are looking for those very traits, hence why your first post caught our interest. I heavily encourage you to sign up again, this 'is your game'. You (and your replacement) managed to survive the entire duration of the game, without attracting many votes along the way. That's your goal as scum, and you achieved it. It will be much more challenging next game, when you're faced with a more active town, but give it a try and see if you get hooked like most of us. FTD acted on my post. And pretty much with those things you mention. Which was dead easy to bounce away. I wasn't really passive, and I did make "enemies". And I used that to manipulate. I pretty much wrote what I would be writing, if I was town in my opening post. And therein was my surprise, when FTD found it scummy. I found my way very unscumlike, because it was easy to blend into the crowd on day 1 with so many going at each other before I posted first time. I took another approach. Inexperienced, I think so.
Stossel(my replacement) picked up on it incredibly well, and used this with his opening post. He seems to have a greater understanding on Mafia.
Thanks for the encouragement, though, but I don't think my style mesh very well with Mafia. The game in itself, I still find very interesting.
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On May 05 2012 07:42 jaj22 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 06:25 Dracolich70 wrote:On May 05 2012 02:16 jaj22 wrote:On May 04 2012 21:57 Zealos wrote:
I was such an obvious an obnoxious mafia :3
On May 04 2012 23:30 Zealos wrote:
I don't know why I felt like playing so damn aggressive haha.
A note here: Aggression and obnoxiousness can and should be separated. Aggression is a town trait, while obnoxiousness without genuine aggression is a scum trait. Players posting abusive one-liners rather than clear accusations should be considered scummy. All traits can be simulated. They certainly can. However, there's a strong tendency for scum to play a quieter game for fear of making mistakes, and it's largely justified. The more content you post, the harder it is to keep your story straight. The longer you're in the spotlight, the more likely it is that someone notices your mistakes. The best way to play aggressive as scum is to do what Mutant tried: Call your scumbuddies as you'd see them as town. The disadvantage is that you can anger your scumbuddies and even end up using your hidden knowledge against your team. Sometimes your scumbuddies aren't as scummy as they look to you.Mutant totally killed my reads though. I normally rely on connection play with newbie games because newbie townies play so damn scummy Your disadvantage pretty much proves it isn't a good way to play.
And with so damn scummy newbie townies - well... then it is more strategically sound to make town insecure on each other, than directing town towards your scum mates.
Guess we see this game differently.
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