EPTNever played on forums before, only IRL. Have been lurking around some tho...
Newbie Mini Mafia IX
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Never played on forums before, only IRL. Have been lurking around some tho... | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On April 14 2012 23:55 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah so thats pretty much what i said with more fluff. If you are going to agree with someone agree with them and move onto something else instead of posting a 1 paragraph flufffest like the above post. True, tho I added that I'd rather lynch someone in order to archive information than just some random lurker. And besides there really isn't much to discuss yet. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
People really need to start posting now, it's been almost 24 h since the day post came up, and we still only got ~2 pages of posts during that time. era was very active last game, though more in terms of quantity than in terms of quality. Haven’t seen him post since the start of this game yet, though, so my first vote goes to him. ##Vote:era I think it's a decent idea to start pressuring era now, however if he doesn't show up at all I guess he will be replaced anyway. Therefore we don't need to care to much about it as of now. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
I also think that it is time for Macheji to step up a bit more. He has posted 4 posts so far, but all of them have been very short and havn't added anything useful yet. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
But so far this discussion has been very light and therefore the information given would be very small. If this continues we might be forced into lynch a lurker, which will basically have a very little chance of successand will get zero info. As for no lynches I have no idea whether that is possible or not, but even if it is we are just buying time for the scum to score some free kills. Thus it might even be better to make a misslynch and get some info, instead of lynching noone. Tho atm I really doubt that will be the case(gaining info, that is). | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On April 16 2012 01:06 Therapist. wrote: What's the least bit of info we obtain from lynching a townie day one? In my first game, we almost mislynched a blue cop and he roleclaimed and completely lost the ability to obtain any real information all game. In our second game, we just randomly lynched someone and could get no real information from it (seriously, the extent of it was "oh that sucks oh well"). I don't see why you say that having only one person killed in a day/night cycle brings the mafia closer to victory. If anything, they are one person FURTHER from victory which is the entire basis for wanting a no lynch. So please, honestly, tell me how to learn things from a day one lynch. If there is a way, then I am just too bad to know it at this point and would love the tips. + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2012 01:06 Therapist. wrote: What's the least bit of info we obtain from lynching a townie day one? In my first game, we almost mislynched a blue cop and he roleclaimed and completely lost the ability to obtain any real information all game. In our second game, we just randomly lynched someone and could get no real information from it (seriously, the extent of it was "oh that sucks oh well"). I don't see why you say that having only one person killed in a day/night cycle brings the mafia closer to victory. If anything, they are one person FURTHER from victory which is the entire basis for wanting a no lynch. So please, honestly, tell me how to learn things from a day one lynch. If there is a way, then I am just too bad to know it at this point and would love the tips. The thing is, we really get the ship rollin' and start to discuss. If we start pressuring and we really pressure someone to the point where they are very close to get lynched they will obviously start to deffend themselfs, either by explaining their actions or to that they tell their opinion on who they think is mafia . Also in a close vote alot of information can be obtained by watching who voted for who(as nova said). ##Vote: Macheji Btw, could we get some info of whether no lynches are possible or not? That we we could start to talk about more important matters instead of hypothetical fluff | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
So Therapist; what are your thoughts this far? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
1) People obtaining a couple of votes will start to get pressured which is good for several reasons. They might have to reveal some usefull info or AT LEAST stop to lurk. There is also a slight chance that the person who obtains votes will be a mafia, in which case some of his scum-bros might have to show their true colour in one or another way. 2) We prevent the last-minute-voteswitch. It would usually be a good idea for the scum to keep their votes as long as possible. People swaping their vote very late should have an insanly good reason to do so, or they will truly scummy as hell. If alot of people keep their votes very long. the mafia will have an easier time to blend in. @Solohan - I'm not sure wether He is just noob or scum. Obviously we are all very new to the game so that could be an explanation for his play. But he hasn't contributed at all yet, only talking about the very hypothetical no lynch and agreeing with that lynching a lurker. Both thoose subjects had already been said at that point, more than once even. This is obviously a very suspicious move. We really need to see his response. @Macheji, oneplus, maybe someone I missed - we really need you guys to post. Preferably sooner than later. I'm going to to some stuffs now + sleep so it will be about 12h untill my next post. It's about 17h to lynchtime, unless I'm misstaken, so I hope we are closer some form of conclusion by the time that I check this thread again. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
So I wake up, read the thread and tbh I'm quite dissapointed in the progress made during the night. We are getting nowhere atm. We really need to stop discuss the possibility of no lynches. I would also like to add, that although the discussion regarding lynch v no lynch may not mean anything if indeed you cannot vote for a no lynch. It does however provide the opportunity for people to comment and add their perspective as to what they feel about the policy. This provides us with information which we can analyse nd to help show the motivation and logic behind their arguements. So it is far from fruitless. I agree with you, but this would only occur if everyone had posted really good opinions and cases. We aren't even close to that point right now. The following effects of a no lynch atm would probebly be something in line with: 1. Noone is lynched 2. Mafia most likely get a kill since there is such a small chance that the roleblocker/jailer would hit the right target due to little information. 3. The killed target townie and is a lurker/person who only posted that no lynch is a good opinion. 4. No info is have been archived. On April 16 2012 11:16 oneplus wrote: Sorry guys i was busy, finally i am able to catch up the thread. Well I am the first one to come out with the no lynch idea, let me explain abit about this. It would be a bit suspicious about me to come out with this but no lynch it's not no pressure for the scums we could see some potential scums coming out and want to lynch some townie in day 1 or he might be happy for no lynch in day 1 and try to go for a no lynch since they will be able to kill at night. From here we might get some information hence no lynch doesn't mean no information at all and it is bad. ##VOTE : No lynch I'm not sure if noob or scum, but This has been said over 9000 times in this thread. Please post something new... | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Really, it doesn't make any fucking sence at all. I said that you havn't contributed at all yet, except for for discussing hypothetical no lynches. So that means you been more or less worthless up untill the point where you started to suspect me and Nova. It is good that you have finally stated your opinions on something more than no lynches. But I really don't understand why start accusing me and Nova. Both of us have contributed infinity more than for example solohan50. Your evidence is also very thin, only being based upon the fact that we both think that no lynches are a bad idea. I have explained why I think they are bad, and that if they mafia plays their cards right, no information will be archived. Not that it matters anything now that we know that no lynches aren't possible. But it does explain why I said that it was a bad idea. As for my true scumtells, basically almost everyone atm. There have been several persons basically been hardcore lurking all game. I also don't really understand the people who wanted to no lynch day 1 as it seems to me to be very scum-favored to go for a no lynch. I'm keeping my vote untill anything happends. This game is truly a mess atm with half of it participants being afk all the time... | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
Up untill this point I was quite sure that Nova wasn't scum, but now I'm starting to question it. An aspect that I think that you havn't brought up is his early game. The one thing that reallty is Pro-town about him is that he really tried his best to get the discussion going. He did some pressures and tried to get the lurkers to speak. He also was very clear about that he didn't like any fluff, although it is true he have been posting lots of posts that havn't really addded anything at all. This could be explained by the fact that we all pretty much agreed upon that lynching lurkers would be possible on day 1 and that he tried to get immune to lynches the very first day be being active. So with that in mind I think that his early game plans isn't very telling. It could've been done outof both perspectives. I'm writing as I am thinking, which is why the text above at first looks very fluffy ^^. Still think it is nice to know. As for Solohan50, The one thing I thought was that the 2 very short posts he actually made were basically echoing what everybody had said a dozen times before him. For me, this looked like a nice way to put some pressure at him and make him contribute and post some more material, rather than actually saying that he was 100% scum. As for Nova intention tho, I have no idea. The only thing that is problematic with your post is how late it is. I know this could be because of a thousand reasons but it does in fact make a difference. To me, most of thoose reasons could be broke down into; 1)You are a townie/blue and just havn't had the time to post. 2)You are scum and want to protect your scum-bro macheji, who I think got the most votes atm(although that seems quite unlikely to me as you set him up on your list of lurkers of people that you are fine with lynching). 3)You are scum, macheji is a townie/blue but you would rather kill Nova as you see him as a bigger threat. I think 1 is the most likely, but all should be considered. Atm I think the most interesting lynch would in fact be Nova. Not because he is confirmed scum in any way, but because of the possible information we could be given. If he flips town, we really need to think about Pure intention with his post. ## Unvote ## Vote Nova_Terra | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
And I never really made any huge claims on solohan, was just saying that he looked kinda scummy the way he lurked and added nothing at all. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On April 16 2012 21:30 Lorant wrote: That is exactly the kind of behavior that we wish to condemn. What kind of behavior? the way he lurks or the way I think it's suspicous he lurks? | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
I also have some extra stuff to say about oneplus. I may have been abit harsh on him at first, which I'm sorry about. However I still think his play is the most strange out of all players in this game. First we have two people, Pure and BlueyD, putting up some pressure votes on him. oneplus seems to be absolutly cool about this. When me and Nova both then says that nolynches are bad(fact which seems to be backed up by Greymist, so it at least wasn't taken out of the blue) he gets super mad and start to accusing us both of us with ZERO arguments but that we both pointed a FoS against him. Then he says: On April 16 2012 18:17 oneplus wrote:Your defending don't make sense at all. Now you are trying to say I am a bad town as I feel suspicious on you =p When I in fact never even claimed him to be a scum. It then becomes clear that he have already decided that both me and Nova are 100% scum no matter what we say. On April 16 2012 19:35 oneplus wrote: I got my point of view you cant shut my mouth up and force everyone to believe in you just because you are active? On April 16 2012 23:32 oneplus wrote: But this is a good move, if you both are scum after you lynch your scummate, you will earn 100% trust from the town. Basically saying that no matter what, he will still think both of us is scum. And still there are no arguments other that we said that we was accusing him of being mafia(which wasn't even true in my case). If that should be considered an argument that is. He then says: On April 16 2012 23:32 oneplus wrote:Pure and Daymore has bring out what I am trying to say but I didnt give enough evidence due to my english. Which is just flat out wrong. Yes Pure and Daymore posted a case against Nova, but they actually used some real arguments instead of saying that me and Nova is scum because we were suspicous of oneplus. About the english, I can understand you to 100% if you say you have a hard time expressing yourself. My english isn't exactly top notch, but who cares? People will in most cases understand you even if do some typos or failgrammar. I think your english is fine. Not one single time have I not understood what you were trying to say in your posts. So please don't blame grammar. Not only do I think that he is strange but I also think that peoples views on him are quite strange. This for example: On April 16 2012 19:21 FourFace wrote: If Nova is our leader then I would like to propose a mutiny to Pure-SC2, TheRavensName and Daymor and establish the council of 4 as our new form of leadership organization with BlueyD as a respected outside consultant Nova and Lazermonkey will be treated as outcasts for discouraging oneplus from posting and being generally to harsh on him by calling him the N word. We never discouraged him from posting, I have no idea why he says the. Not sure if it was his intent or not but He effectivly killed the oneplus discussion which could be explained by that they scumbros. He adds later on: On April 16 2012 21:16 Lorant wrote: As for oneplus, I felt like I should take him under my wing because English is evidently not his mother tongue. Nevertheless I expect him to try and make it easy for us to understand him, keep it simple. What I understood about his posts struck me as intelligent and insightful + Show Spoiler + On April 16 2012 18:34 oneplus wrote: I am not the one who say this. You are the one who said you and lazer accused me? I said you guys sound like a team. And yeah now you are protecting lazer. In what earth the most active player couldn't be scum? Well I could be wrong if you are town and the scum will be lurking around and clapping his hand to see 2 of us try to attack each others Which to me doesn't make any sence. He is basically protecting oneplus for no other reason that english isn't his mother tounge. Conclusion! I'm still not sure whether oneplus is just bad or scum. but imo both him and durant is acting really strange. So lynching oneplus would in one way or another give some info about Durant. ## unvote ## vote oneplus | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
First of, I realise that my play have been quite suspicious up untill this point. I don't really know how to response to this tho. Some of you may not like that I blame my inexperience, but it does play a factor in here. This is in fact my first game ever of forum mafia. As for my voteswitch on oneplus, after Pure's post about Nova I was overwhelmed. I thought there was a very big chance of Nova being scum at that point. But I really liked his defense and he had been contributing as oposed to oneplus. At the same time oneplus never failed to amaze me with loads of scummy posts. I still wasn't quite sure whether he was a bad town or actually scum and at that point where I voteswitched, I was basically fliping a coin in order in order to decide which one I would go for. I also didn't like the way everyone seemed to bandwagon Nova so easy, althought admittedly I was one of thoose who voted for in the beginning. Now as for my own scumreads, here we go: Macheji - started the game out as a lurker, has a couple of posts which doesn't contribute at all(which doesn't tell to much because it was just a few hours into the game). Then he doesn't say anything for a long time. Obviously this was due to his computer, as a don't really think you would lurk so hardcore that you are basically minutes from being replaced. He then puts his vote on Nova, which doesn't have an impact at all as it made the vote go from 6-3 to 6-4. His resoning behind this vote was that he didn't like the way Nova pressured with his votes in the early game, found in this post:+ Show Spoiler + On April 17 2012 09:46 Macheji wrote: Fine, i'll post my reasons for the vote. Didn't really want to because the night is comming and the last time i accused somebody at the start of the night i got killed. Here is what i wrote earlier but wanted to keep it to myself until the end of the night I'll catch up on everything and start making cases. I voted for Terra because in my opionion he seems to be trying to hard. The vote/unvote thing bothered me from the start. The matter of fact is that in the beggining it had a positive effect, but in time that kind of posts only start turning people against eachother. I noticed that at a point almost everybody was accusing eachother for various reasons and the conversation went nowhere. More than this people started forming small groups. And i find this a very unhealthy behavior town-wise. In my opinion this was all caused by Nova_Terra. I don't know if it was on purpose or not, but the effect was negative nonetheless. More than this, i saw a post in wich he said ( correct me if i'm wrong here, i went thru everything kinda fast ), that in the last game he got killed for beeing to silent as a mafia. Now his behavior is not closer to normal, but it's the exact same opposite. I think he got mafia again and he tries to act compl different expecting a tottaly different reaction from the people. From what i've noticed, he is not really scum-hunting, he is not thinking on building a case and going after someone that he really belives is mafia, but rather he goes after everybody managing to only create dubt against everybody. Now, that was the reasoning behind my vote. But now that i've read your case-post i am alot more sure of my vote. If i don't die tonight, i am voting for him again. Some strange things are found in this post such as: Now, that was the reasoning behind my vote. But now that i've read your case-post i am alot more sure of my vote. If i don't die tonight, i am voting for him again. Not sure what to think about this. "if I don't die tonight" could be a possible scumslip. And the fact that he was so willing to vote against Nova again seems strange, why would you decide who to vote for now, when it is almost 72h before next lynch? Another pearl I found in this post was this Small line: More than this, i saw a post in wich he said ( correct me if i'm wrong here, i went thru everything kinda fast ), that in the last game he got killed for beeing to silent as a mafia. Very instresting post. Nova even himself claimed that he is spamming alot as mafia, which is easily confirmed if you check his post history. I guess It's possible that he actually was going through everything very fast and missed this. But another possibility is that this post was a way of trying to spread false rumors about Nova with the possibilty of falling back by saying: "Oh, I must have missread that". Not to long ago he posted a long post about most in this game. This post was good in the way that it did show his opinions on several persons. However, it was more of a summary than anything else and didn't add much to the discussion. Also I think his logic was flawed for in some ways, for example giving Therapist (++) only for saying he didn't want to misslynch. And I'm not just saying that cuz I'm mad that I got (----) : ). As you may have noticed I have been refering to Nova in alot of cases. Say what you want about him, he does create some good discussions. As for other honorobel mentions: Therapist - lurking like a boss atm. Said he liked long posts, but is yet to post one himself. Only playing safe cards, could be because he his scum, could be because he is scared townie. Nova - I'm leaing towards town in him. I think he is contributing alot. I also liked Fourfaces/Durants post on that the kill on Crossfire somewhat proves that Nova is innocent because Cross unsure of whether Nova was scum or townie. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
@Lorants Nova/Pure post - you seem to link together Nova and Pure in an almost conspiracy-like way. While I agree it's is possible that both players could be mafia there is a huge possibilty that both are scum, both being scum is a completly different matter. Tbh after looking back at the day 1 lynch I'm quite convinced they cannot be the scumpair. Look here for example: + Show Spoiler + On April 17 2012 06:32 Pure-SC2 wrote: Some interesting developments this evening. In the space of 12 hours, Nova's tone has changed completely. From aggressive defense (when he was only aware oneplus suspected him), to a long period of silence and then muted responses to my initial case, to a reasonably patient defense that seemed reasonable but didn't really cover off or satisfy my case against him, but definitely won some people over. I still have him pegged as scum, especially after his classic scum slip. Here is his quote: - What he meant to say was "switch over to either oneplus or Solohan50", but for some reason said Crossfire instead. Why would he have said Crossfire? Because Crossfire is his scum ally, and he was in discussions with Crossfire at the time he posted. This is the most classic case of a scum slip possible. Now how did Nova respond to this? Did he say a correction straight away? Nope. He didn't say a thing until TheRavensName commented on it, saying it was strange. Nova's response: That is a damning as it gets. Crossfire was around at this time as well, because he was posting in the thread also. I stand by my case against Nova, and I add what I've posted above to it. In addition to this, in my initial case I commented that I believed his accomplises were Lazermonkey and Crossfire. I'm even more convinced of this now. Look at Lazermonkeys filter around the time I made my case against Nova and linked him to Lazer. Lazer vote flips in an absolutely classic attempt to distance himself from his scum partner. They then go into a back and forth about it, further attempting to distance themselves, but what do you know - they both have their votes on oneplus. As does Crossfire. When it looked safe to bandwagon oneplus, they did it. I want to go into Lazer's posts in more detail, and I will if I get the chance tomorrow. But the filter is there for you to read it, and I encourage you to. I've had a brief read through Crossfire's filter and the last bunch of posts are an absolute mess. He seems the least scummy of the three, but Nova's scum slip convinced me I was on the right track. oneplus is town. I'm convinced of it, and you've bandwagoned onto it and played right into the mafia's hand. So Pure is posting and saying that Nova is STILL one of his prime scum-suspects. And this is 1 1/2h from lynch time where Nova is one vote from getting lynched, assuming that person changed his vote from oneplus to Nova. Obviously he still had the possibilty to change his own vote in order to save Nova, but that would seem REALLY fishy since he even posted a long post about why he disliked Nova. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
@Pure - I don't know really what to say anymore. I feel like I've responded to all your questions, but you still say I have many more things to answer. Can you be a little more specific? I did say why I voteswitched, I did say why voted on Nova etc. The arguments you use against me now are basically the same as when you made your first case against me. I answer the post and you post the same thing again. | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
I don't know what to say about Solohan50 atm. I read through his filter from last game(where he played mafia) and it seemed to be alot like this one. A short summary would be: Lurking haaard, being very defensive and is never the first one to accuse a person. Half of his posts are excuses for not being there/not posting enough/posting fluff. The other half is posting and kicking on people that are already lying. So let's compare to this game. His first posts are not very telling at all. He is talking about no lynches etc. and isn't adding anything at all. His first major accusation is of Nova. But this is way after Pure first case on Nova and at the point of voting he is the third person to put his on Nova and doesn't really contribute much to the case. He has an easy time to blend in the case against Nova. Then he is posting a bit about people he is suspicious about, but Nova isn't on this list, why? Instead he plays the safe cards and is basically saying that he thinks the lurkers should post more. He then has a defensive post about why he isn't able to post: because he lives in the US. still havn't really contributed. He is then starts to accuses me, but at that point there have already been 2(or more?) major cases against me. His arguments on why I am scum were the same as Pure/Nova/whatevs. He says that my case on Macheji is weak but he is yet to post one good of his own. Anyway, after his case against me he DOESN'T vote for me. In fact he doesn't even claim that I actually am scum. Only that my play have been suspicious. It's first a whole day later that he actually decides to put the vote up against me. This is after the true shitstorm have hit me in the face, and Solohan can easily blend in with everyone accusing me of being scum. All this looks very similar to last game where he in fact was a mafia. Basically lurking and playing really really safe which doesn't look like a townie to me. ##Vote: Solohan50 | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
I'm kinda dissapointed in myself for screwing up so badly. Thought this was easier than it was but at least my last read on solohan was correct. | ||
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