EPTSpace Station Mafia - Page 59
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VayeshMoru
201 Posts
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VayeshMoru
201 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
GG | ||
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VayeshMoru
201 Posts
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
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VayeshMoru
201 Posts
On April 21 2012 12:27 EchelonTee wrote: yeah, nice pick. how many people know you are you? im assuming the entire scum team, sandro, gm (fucking cheater), and errandor. Anyone smart enough to read mafia 30 would have figured it out as well I think. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
apologies for playing like a dingus. I wasn't lying when I said personal stuff was kicking me in the rear. | ||
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VayeshMoru
201 Posts
On April 21 2012 12:30 EchelonTee wrote: GM cheated? lol wat? apologies for playing like a dingus. I wasn't lying when I said personal stuff was kicking me in the rear. He knew it was me and told sandro, or heavily implied to sandro, within like hours of day 1. As I know I was a super late joiner + there were a ton of posts to read overall in xxx, the chances of him speed figuring out are low. More likely that I was IP checked. He could have remembered I was a smurf from ages ago (always possible) but given that no one else in this game did -_- | ||
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RayzorFlash
Canada253 Posts
Yayyyyyy!!!!! | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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VayeshMoru
201 Posts
On April 21 2012 12:36 RayzorFlash wrote: Ohai... I think this is the first mafia game where the team i'm on has actually won then :O Yayyyyyy!!!!! Don't be proud of it. We didn't do well, we broke the game mechanics and thus fucked the mafia who could do nothing to stop it. Sandro and GM for doing this should be ashamed and no one involved in the process of the pm work should be proud either. Beating a mafia team because the game is able to be broken and unwinnable for them is not something any of us should be proud of. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
Number 1 Town Dictator: Sandroba Town Tunneling Machine: VisceraEyes Awesome Newbie: talismania Misunderstood Rogue: Ace Teh Martyr: Acrofales BLU Snipers: Vayesh, Node, risk.nuke Scum MVP: wherebugsgo | ||
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RayzorFlash
Canada253 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I'm never gonna be able to sleep again | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
On April 21 2012 12:37 VayeshMoru wrote: Don't be proud of it. We didn't do well, we broke the game mechanics and thus fucked the mafia who could do nothing to stop it. Sandro and GM for doing this should be ashamed and no one involved in the process of the pm work should be proud either. Beating a mafia team because the game is able to be broken and unwinnable for them is not something any of us should be proud of. I figured out who you were by reading mafia 30, but bugs wouldn't let me call you out since he thought it would make you think one of the people who knew had leaked. Also now I can claim solving both puzzles, although I solved the first one after acrofales b/c of the missing comma. Oh also here's something I want to discuss, and the reason I quoted this post instead of the other one. It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that the way that Sandro broke the setup was just by persuading everyone that he broke the setup. DrH actually gave scum all the information that Sandro was using to "confirm" people. Bugs was at the very heart of the town pm circle from the start of the game. But we couldn't stop everyone from thinking he'd broken the setup already and was using mechanics to confirm people; and so he got his town circle set up and started directing people and gathering info even though he didn't actually have any basis for setting up a town circle in the first place. I think that part of the problem was with the item mechanic, which combined with the not-actually-confirmed town circle in a way that was pretty much impossible for scum to stop. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Town started off with a large amount of items. Because of both town/scum had a thief and the ability to move their items around, I rightly assumed that the number of actual town roles with power would decrease hugely by Day 2 and I was right. Town went from around 14 or so total powers, to 7, to much less than that as the days drew nearer. A game is balanced with the assumption that town will often use their powers on each other and miss aliens. The town vigilantes were not players I considered to be particularly strong scumhunters but both Node AND risk.nuke hit the money at night AND had the good luck of getting a dayshot upgrade from the technician twice in a row. Scum had 3 KP, an unblockable hit, a permanent roleblock, a communication block, and had stolen one of the towns KP at a time when there were only 2 medics and neither of the medics had made good choices. Aliens complained about a lot of things, such as there being "14" power roles at a time when there were only 7 and 3 people with bombs on them who weren't town. They also talked about town having roles that they didn't have at all, such as a watcher/tracker and so on. A later complaint was that town can confirm themselves to eachother. That's not true. Aliens can obtain/hold/trade items as easily as townies can. There were clues in night PMs, for example, as to whether or not an item was used on you and by who. Someone who was bombed, would receive a clue about it. This does not confirm anyone as a town mad-hatter, because confirmable powers come only from items and not from roles, meaning they are not indicative of alignment. I'm surprised Aliens didn't try to participate more actively in the item trade, since both sides were stupid enough to assume having/using an item meant you were confirmed town. I blame the loss of the Aliens partly on town luck, perhaps a little bit of setup imbalance, but mostly on failure to take advantage of the terrible play of Sandroba and other townie assumptions and not communicating well. http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/juxcj36UTTNsA - Alien QT. Read through the whole thing for immense drama between myself and WBG. I don't have a consolidated document with role or item descriptions but I will post this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NOoinv6QX__cn3ra6-6ANvavbp4WBKJ4Uir8X5E4A54/edit?pli=1 Which was used at least early on to organize actions and resolutions. Town KP was very neutered by splitting up mad hatter bombs. As far as aliens being unable to counter dayshots or anything, day vigis have never had a counter, the downside to a day vig is they have to announce their shot and bring attention or controversy on themselves immediately and alert mafia to their presence. The aliens can permanently roleblock a player by stealing an item and never returning it tot he game, ensuring that town now has a permanent KP loss. The main argument between me and WBG is that WBG believed that if aliens stole a KP item, such as a rifle, that they should have their KP upgraded freely. I disagreed, as permanently taking the item out of the game is strong enough and by the way the aliens were planning their actions, they could have easily snowballed to 5 nightly KP near the middle or end of the game. WBG's main concerns were overestimation of how much power town actually had. The actual losses for scum were a result of vigilantes just playing very very well. I disagreed with the hit on Sandroba. He was the worst player this game, I would have kept him alive for the whole ordeal and stayed mostly unconcerned about town organizing their item usage. By participating in the trade more actively, they could have let more people think of them as "confirmed" but WBG insisted all alien powers were useless except for steal, which only became overpowered when a single player had most of the information in the game and was foolishly feeding the information to WBG. All in all this was a horrific hosting experience and I doubt I'll ever do it again. Writing 30 paragraphs at night only to be called a liar by scum and yelled at by the people playing the game isn't worth it. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
Wish Alien's would have made more use of their powers. One use of the Psychic would have confirmed how clues and night PMs work allowing them to twist their way into it, faking PMs to indicate other people of being aliens and also likely learning the role/item holds of another player for later stealing. I was too vague about a lot of things and I don't think people quite understood that just because someone had or used the syringe didn't confirm them to be town. In a scenario where the aliens stole a rifle and used it at night to replace one of their base KP, they could then claim the shot later in the thread, potentially have that confirmed, and then spend the rest of the game defending on the platform that they used a town KP and are therefore town. None of this happened though, instead I got the joy of arguing with WBG for the rest of the game over how unfair the closed setup that he doesn't know anything about is for the aliens Nothing I had in mind happened, actually. | ||
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EchelonTee
United States5260 Posts
My play: it was terrible, and non-committal, so much less than I am capable of. Apologies to everyone involved, I was hit by the RL stick and couldn't put into this the time that it deserved. If I had worked hard in PM land perhaps we would've stood a chance, but as it stood I just did bad. My apologies to Coagulation, for me overracting and being a pissy loser in Scum QT. Scum team play: WBG infiltrated early and had established a pretty nice position, but the rest of the scum team was woefully left out of the PM circle. It was easy for Sandroba to consider everyone who claimed to him town, and to fire into the people remaining. Most of the scum team were pretty helpless throughout the game. Town play: usual mixed bag of good and bad. the town environment was really really terrible TBH until VisceraEyes joined the game. This let people like Node or prplhz, who never did anything scummy per se, to be potential mislynch candidates, simply because nobody in the town was talking. Sandroba's plan was very powerful, but it could've derailed if the thread never got moving. The chance of it being derailed was very very very very low, admittedly, but as it stands, the stranglehold of town was troublesome. The shot on Ace was senseless, to be perfectly honest. Sandroba even said in PMs "the shots aren't very powerful, that rules out dangerous scum players like Ace", yet he shot anyways. Don't get it. talismania gets a shout out for best newbie, good standard town play. Overall, this game was won through blue powers (all but 1 of the scum players were shot by blues), not by analysis at all. The setup: I liked the flavor, and scum ended up winning the 2nd puzzle (answer: ventriloquist), which prevented destroyed items from being ressurected. The aliens had varied and intersting powers, but it was hard to justify using them over just using KP to shoot people (using powers deducted some of our KP). The fact that items can be traded meant that it was easier to confirm players; as soon as syllogism asked WBG to hand over his fake medic gun, WBG was outted. Also, half of the scum team was inexperienced with PM games, which meant that PMs strongly favored town. Overall, the concept of items and stealing and stuff was pretty interesting, and town took advantage of that by forcing claims left and right. Thanks a lot to DrH and Kitaman for hosting; sorry for my failures to maintain a good attitude and play to my fullest. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On April 21 2012 12:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote: MVP - Ace for being the only person not retarded enough to care who is "confirmed" Wish Alien's would have made more use of their powers. One use of the Psychic would have confirmed how clues and night PMs work allowing them to twist their way into it, faking PMs to indicate other people of being aliens and also likely learning the role/item holds of another player for later stealing. I was too vague about a lot of things and I don't think people quite understood that just because someone had or used the syringe didn't confirm them to be town. In a scenario where the aliens stole a rifle and used it at night to replace one of their base KP, they could then claim the shot later in the thread, potentially have that confirmed, and then spend the rest of the game defending on the platform that they used a town KP and are therefore town. None of this happen. Nothing I had in mind happened, actually. why would we use powers if we had to sacrifice KP for it?!?!?!!?!? I don't feel like arguing about this, but honestly if you were in my position you would've easily got fucked in the ass much harder than we did. e: not to mention psychic died n1, iirc | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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