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Another game ruined by pms =\
To be honest drH this game would have been insanely well done had you not included pms.
The only setup note I will comment on past that is this.
Town should never at any point have 14 power roles if the mafia number is 6. Period. They had to sacrifice kp to use powers, and town had 14 abilities. Town should never have more than 2-3 power roles over mafia # (thats being gracious) but more than double their number is insane. Think of it this way. In one night (given that risk + node both shot twice) they could have day shot, killed two people, night shot killed two people, and mafia shoot two hatters who correctly dropped bombs and mafia lose.
Town should never EVER be able to completely win a game that fast.
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On April 21 2012 12:56 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 12:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
MVP - Ace for being the only person not retarded enough to care who is "confirmed"
Wish Alien's would have made more use of their powers. One use of the Psychic would have confirmed how clues and night PMs work allowing them to twist their way into it, faking PMs to indicate other people of being aliens and also likely learning the role/item holds of another player for later stealing.
I was too vague about a lot of things and I don't think people quite understood that just because someone had or used the syringe didn't confirm them to be town.
In a scenario where the aliens stole a rifle and used it at night to replace one of their base KP, they could then claim the shot later in the thread, potentially have that confirmed, and then spend the rest of the game defending on the platform that they used a town KP and are therefore town. None of this happen.
Nothing I had in mind happened, actually. why would we use powers if we had to sacrifice KP for it?!?!?!!?!? I don't feel like arguing about this, but honestly if you were in my position you would've easily got fucked in the ass much harder than we did.
Dunno, we had to make the same choices in the last game I was mafia in and we used our powers often enough and won doing it.
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and how do we explain stealing the RB block item?
"oh we just randomly picked the guy who was only known to be a DT to four people, scum totally haven't infiltrated your circle, here's your item back"
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Yeah, I'm not going to be playing another PM game for a long time. I didn't enjoy this at all, and I think it would have been even less enjoyable if I'd been town. Everything that went on in the thread seemed super useless when everything was being decided behind closed doors in PMs.
Sorry to the scum team, this was my first time being scum and I didn't play very well. I learned a lot, and I think I'll be able to do it much better next time.
I do think my fake claim of being the "Station Extra-Vehicular Activity Specialist" who repairs the station after it takes damage when scum wins a puzzle would have been fun to make, even though it wouldn't have been at all persuasive.
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On April 21 2012 12:56 VayeshMoru wrote:
Another game ruined by pms =\
To be honest drH this game would have been insanely well done had you not included pms.
The only setup note I will comment on past that is this.
Town should never at any point have 14 power roles if the mafia number is 6. Period. They had to sacrifice kp to use powers, and town had 14 abilities. Town should never have more than 2-3 power roles over mafia # (thats being gracious) but more than double their number is insane. Think of it this way. In one night (given that risk + node both shot twice) they could have day shot, killed two people, night shot killed two people, and mafia shoot two hatters who correctly dropped bombs and mafia lose.
Town should never EVER be able to completely win a game that fast.
That couldn't have happened. There could have been two shots and a day shot. Town had a pretty bad night 1, most items were given away and then immediately returned, the pharmacist accomplished nothing, Ace didn't learn anything useful from his camera either.
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On April 21 2012 12:56 VayeshMoru wrote:
Another game ruined by pms =\
To be honest drH this game would have been insanely well done had you not included pms.
The only setup note I will comment on past that is this.
Town should never at any point have 14 power roles if the mafia number is 6. Period. They had to sacrifice kp to use powers, and town had 14 abilities. Town should never have more than 2-3 power roles over mafia # (thats being gracious) but more than double their number is insane. Think of it this way. In one night (given that risk + node both shot twice) they could have day shot, killed two people, night shot killed two people, and mafia shoot two hatters who correctly dropped bombs and mafia lose.
Town should never EVER be able to completely win a game that fast.
100% agree on the bolded part of this.
And I'm amazed no one who was town read Mafia 30 and decided to call you out.
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not to mention DH your role spreadsheet thing doesn't include all the actions -_-
or items, for that matter
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On April 21 2012 12:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
and how do we explain stealing the RB block item?
"oh we just randomly picked the guy who was only known to be a DT to four people, scum totally haven't infiltrated your circle, here's your item back"
situations where one town aligned player has all the information day 1 is hard to deal with in any setup. In a setup with normal blue roles, mafia all have to claim green/vet/etc. and you could have all as easily claimed researcher with no items, killed sandroba cutting off the info, then started trading things around.
Sandroba was playing terribly, threatening to shoot anyone who didn't do exactly what he asked. He threatened to kill VE several times for not returning the DT items he stole and killed Ace for not following his orders.
The fact that that happened really threw a wrench into what I figured would happen but you can't account for things like that all the time. I think BC was right in assessing that the inclusion of PMs is what really ruined this game.
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On April 21 2012 13:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
not to mention DH your role spreadsheet thing doesn't include all the actions -_-
or items, for that matter
Right, as I said. I don't have any documentation with a list of role/item descriptions or every action. I never keep track of things like that in a spreadsheet or anything, information is lost when it's not relevant anymore and i don't particularly care about revealing everything end game
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Three things that would've made me happy:
Alien having a medic power. we knew l10f and coag were totally going to get shot in the face, but we had no way to stop it.
Nerf the alien powers a bit, and let us start with an item or two. Like have the Alien Overlord start with an Exo-skeleton, and the Alien "medic" start with a syringe. Then we can take part in the item trade game.
Don't allow guns to be refilled. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did risk.nuke start with one bullet, use it on ace, then get it refilled and he used it again on WBG? Once risk.nuke and GM became trusted townies, they had a consistent 2nd KP rolling. Pretty crazy.
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On April 21 2012 12:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 12:56 VayeshMoru wrote:
Another game ruined by pms =\
To be honest drH this game would have been insanely well done had you not included pms.
The only setup note I will comment on past that is this.
Town should never at any point have 14 power roles if the mafia number is 6. Period. They had to sacrifice kp to use powers, and town had 14 abilities. Town should never have more than 2-3 power roles over mafia # (thats being gracious) but more than double their number is insane. Think of it this way. In one night (given that risk + node both shot twice) they could have day shot, killed two people, night shot killed two people, and mafia shoot two hatters who correctly dropped bombs and mafia lose.
Town should never EVER be able to completely win a game that fast. That couldn't have happened. There could have been two shots and a day shot. Town had a pretty bad night 1, most items were given away and then immediately returned, the pharmacist accomplished nothing, Ace didn't learn anything useful from his camera either.
i saw two day shots and at least one night shot? thats 3 kp. Correct usage of bombs and bad mafia shots (from your spreadsheet / knowing who actually had bombs) could have killed 3 more. Factor in lynches and again.
Did it happen? No. But its way to many powers in the hands of the town. Had mafia's powers been free to use until said player with the power died, or they could use stolen items themselves at no cost it would be much more even.
Town may have had a bad night 1, except we still killed a mafia, lynched correctly, then followed up with two shots and a lynch. I also had a bomb placed correctly thus ensuring my own safety or they lose another member.
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If PMs were absent from the game, the incident with sandroba wouldn't have happened which made things admittedly difficult for the mafia but don't pretend you played everything perfectly WBG.
I don't appreciate you implying that I would have fucked it all up as mafia either or when you told me straight up you think I'm low enough to lie about the setup and would believe sandrobas estimate of the game over what I'm telling you as the mod.
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it's not hard to deal with, it's pretty much impossible.
There were four/five people who knew the things sandro did. I knew most of them, albeit some things were hidden to me on n1. On n1 I knew who the tech was (who we couldn't really do anything about because he had a bodyguard) and basically what he could do, what sandro knew, who they suspected, who was likely a vig shot (I knew it was going to be l10f), who was a DT (erandorr) and who was likely to be a vig (it had to be among chaoser/risk from my n1 estimate and I was right) and who was a hatter with a bomb on a townie (acro) and who was a hatter with a bomb that could be placed anywhere (BC)
We knew SO MUCH on n1 and we could literally do nothing to stop any of it. All we could do was steal from Erandorr and hope he aimed at our GF.
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Overall, I liked the game; I would have enjoyed it more if I had put more time in it. Regardless, I'm taking a long break from TL Mafia. GG WP guys
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On April 21 2012 13:02 EchelonTee wrote:
Three things that would've made me happy:
Alien having a medic power. we knew l10f and coag were totally going to get shot in the face, but we had no way to stop it.
Nerf the alien powers a bit, and let us start with an item or two. Like have the Alien Overlord start with an Exo-skeleton, and the Alien "medic" start with a syringe. Then we can take part in the item trade game.
Don't allow guns to be refilled. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did risk.nuke start with one bullet, use it on ace, then get it refilled and he used it again on WBG? Once risk.nuke and GM became trusted townies, they had a consistent 2nd KP rolling. Pretty crazy.
I never authorized or talked to risk.nuke about getting any KP beyond the day shot he got when he was upgraded. The fact that GMarshal hit 2 vig's in a row with his technician is pretty lucky and allowing PMs was a huge mistake because I guess I could have predicted somebody like sandroba coming along and getting all the information and just telling technician what to do
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On April 21 2012 13:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If PMs were absent from the game, the incident with sandroba wouldn't have happened which made things admittedly difficult for the mafia but don't pretend you played everything perfectly WBG.
I don't appreciate you implying that I would have fucked it all up as mafia either or when you told me straight up you think I'm low enough to lie about the setup and would believe sandrobas estimate of the game over what I'm telling you as the mod.
you told me my estimates were wrong when my estimates were actually LOW
from the spreadsheet alone you can see there were 15-16 items when my estimate was 14.
So yes, you are a liar and I am saying that with confidence.
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On April 21 2012 13:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 13:02 EchelonTee wrote:
Three things that would've made me happy:
Alien having a medic power. we knew l10f and coag were totally going to get shot in the face, but we had no way to stop it.
Nerf the alien powers a bit, and let us start with an item or two. Like have the Alien Overlord start with an Exo-skeleton, and the Alien "medic" start with a syringe. Then we can take part in the item trade game.
Don't allow guns to be refilled. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but did risk.nuke start with one bullet, use it on ace, then get it refilled and he used it again on WBG? Once risk.nuke and GM became trusted townies, they had a consistent 2nd KP rolling. Pretty crazy. I never authorized or talked to risk.nuke about getting any KP beyond the day shot he got when he was upgraded. The fact that GMarshal hit 2 vig's in a row with his technician is pretty lucky and allowing PMs was a huge mistake because I guess I could have predicted somebody like sandroba coming along and getting all the information and just telling technician what to do
it's not lucky, he knew they were vigis. So did we.
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On April 21 2012 13:04 wherebugsgo wrote:
it's not hard to deal with, it's pretty much impossible.
There were four/five people who knew the things sandro did. I knew most of them, albeit some things were hidden to me on n1. On n1 I knew who the tech was (who we couldn't really do anything about because he had a bodyguard) and basically what he could do, what sandro knew, who they suspected, who was likely a vig shot (I knew it was going to be l10f), who was a DT (erandorr) and who was likely to be a vig (it had to be among chaoser/risk from my n1 estimate and I was right) and who was a hatter with a bomb on a townie (acro) and who was a hatter with a bomb that could be placed anywhere (BC)
We knew SO MUCH on n1 and we could literally do nothing to stop any of it. All we could do was steal from Erandorr and hope he aimed at our GF.
then it is what it is. I'm sorry that things ended up being so poorly in your favor.
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On April 21 2012 13:05 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 13:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If PMs were absent from the game, the incident with sandroba wouldn't have happened which made things admittedly difficult for the mafia but don't pretend you played everything perfectly WBG.
I don't appreciate you implying that I would have fucked it all up as mafia either or when you told me straight up you think I'm low enough to lie about the setup and would believe sandrobas estimate of the game over what I'm telling you as the mod. you told me my estimates were wrong when my estimates were actually LOW from the spreadsheet alone you can see there were 15-16 items when my estimate was 14. So yes, you are a liar and I am saying that with confidence.
Your estimate was 14 at a time when it was 7. I'm not fucking lying. "active t.e.d." isn't an item. If a player holds multiple items they can only use one.
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On April 21 2012 13:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
If PMs were absent from the game, the incident with sandroba wouldn't have happened which made things admittedly difficult for the mafia but don't pretend you played everything perfectly WBG.
I don't appreciate you implying that I would have fucked it all up as mafia either or when you told me straight up you think I'm low enough to lie about the setup and would believe sandrobas estimate of the game over what I'm telling you as the mod.
I'm not pretending shit, and the fact that you have to resort to saying my play wasn't perfect is just insulting.
Of course I could've played better, but if I needed to play perfectly to win then it's clear the setup was broken.
Anyway discussing this more is just going to get us all to rage more so I'm out. I'm never again playing a pm game, I just don't believe they can be balanced.
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EPT
