|
On April 21 2012 12:49 DoctorHelvetica wrote:I'm gonna be brief on the setup. Town started off with a large amount of items. Because of both town/scum had a thief and the ability to move their items around, I rightly assumed that the number of actual town roles with power would decrease hugely by Day 2 and I was right. Town went from around 14 or so total powers, to 7, to much less than that as the days drew nearer. A game is balanced with the assumption that town will often use their powers on each other and miss aliens. The town vigilantes were not players I considered to be particularly strong scumhunters but both Node AND risk.nuke hit the money at night AND had the good luck of getting a dayshot upgrade from the technician twice in a row. Scum had 3 KP, an unblockable hit, a permanent roleblock, a communication block, and had stolen one of the towns KP at a time when there were only 2 medics and neither of the medics had made good choices. Aliens complained about a lot of things, such as there being "14" power roles at a time when there were only 7 and 3 people with bombs on them who weren't town. They also talked about town having roles that they didn't have at all, such as a watcher/tracker and so on. A later complaint was that town can confirm themselves to eachother. That's not true. Aliens can obtain/hold/trade items as easily as townies can. There were clues in night PMs, for example, as to whether or not an item was used on you and by who. Someone who was bombed, would receive a clue about it. This does not confirm anyone as a town mad-hatter, because confirmable powers come only from items and not from roles, meaning they are not indicative of alignment. I'm surprised Aliens didn't try to participate more actively in the item trade, since both sides were stupid enough to assume having/using an item meant you were confirmed town. I blame the loss of the Aliens partly on town luck, perhaps a little bit of setup imbalance, but mostly on failure to take advantage of the terrible play of Sandroba and other townie assumptions and not communicating well. http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/juxcj36UTTNsA - Alien QT. Read through the whole thing for immense drama between myself and WBG. I don't have a consolidated document with role or item descriptions but I will post this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NOoinv6QX__cn3ra6-6ANvavbp4WBKJ4Uir8X5E4A54/edit?pli=1Which was used at least early on to organize actions and resolutions. Town KP was very neutered by splitting up mad hatter bombs. As far as aliens being unable to counter dayshots or anything, day vigis have never had a counter, the downside to a day vig is they have to announce their shot and bring attention or controversy on themselves immediately and alert mafia to their presence. The aliens can permanently roleblock a player by stealing an item and never returning it tot he game, ensuring that town now has a permanent KP loss. The main argument between me and WBG is that WBG believed that if aliens stole a KP item, such as a rifle, that they should have their KP upgraded freely. I disagreed, as permanently taking the item out of the game is strong enough and by the way the aliens were planning their actions, they could have easily snowballed to 5 nightly KP near the middle or end of the game. WBG's main concerns were overestimation of how much power town actually had. The actual losses for scum were a result of vigilantes just playing very very well. I disagreed with the hit on Sandroba. He was the worst player this game, I would have kept him alive for the whole ordeal and stayed mostly unconcerned about town organizing their item usage. By participating in the trade more actively, they could have let more people think of them as "confirmed" but WBG insisted all alien powers were useless except for steal, which only became overpowered when a single player had most of the information in the game and was foolishly feeding the information to WBG. All in all this was a horrific hosting experience and I doubt I'll ever do it again. Writing 30 paragraphs at night only to be called a liar by scum and yelled at by the people playing the game isn't worth it.
Vigilantes hit what i told them to hit. Clearly i was the worst player since I hit 3/4 scum and left enough info to peg wbg and had the last 2 as sinani/et/s&b. Pretty disappointing performance. Outing all the scum is not enough some times.
|
i terrorized the scum, saying i could confirm people, and that led them to claim real late and made it easy to identify sum. Bad play sorry.
|
I'm the worst town player fuck yeah. That makes sense.
|
If you honestly didn't believe that items "confirmed" people (well, to be honest I still don't really know how they worked, perhaps someone thoroughly explaining how they worked would be great) and just did it to pressure people and see how they'd react to you or claim to you, then I guess it's fine.
I don't know if something similar would have happened in Aperture if PMs were allowed.
Meh, maybe that's why I don't play in PM games at all, too much complexity, variance and in most cases confusion, and you need to spend a shitload of time answering/sending PMs and having convos and shit
|
Holy fuck, will you guys please stop shitting on DrH for giving valid constructive criticisms of your play? You are taking this way too personally, and instead of actually having a discussion (which could be useful for all people who played, observed, or will later read this game) when you disagree you're getting offended and having heated arguments. Kindly stop.
|
"Sandroba was playing terribly, threatening to shoot anyone who didn't do exactly what he asked. He threatened to kill VE several times for not returning the DT items he stole and killed Ace for not following his orders."
Clearly I was playing terribly by getting all scum. Real bad play i should have got all scum day 1 instead of day 3 for it to be good. I also never threatened to shoot VE. I questioned to get a read and that was terrible play also cuz I should have known VE was town by default obviously.
|
On April 21 2012 17:28 Node wrote:
Holy fuck, will you guys please stop shitting on DrH for giving valid constructive criticisms of your play? You are taking this way too personally, and instead of actually having a discussion (which could be useful for all people who played, observed, or will later read this game) when you disagree you're getting offended and having heated arguments. Kindly stop.
Valid constructive criticism? Yes I was the worst town player. That's very constructive. Of course I am taking it personally when I know there is no way that can ever be true.
|
Just letting you know wbg I was on to you just before some fools shot me. I didn't have a case but my scumdar was pinging.
Sorry for your setup not going the way you planned Dr.H. This is why i don't play in PM games. I only signed up because PMs aside I thought the setup would be fun. Bad players as always ruin shit. I don't think sandroba was bad, just stupidly blind. A lot of other players in the game were just as stupid for trusting him so quickly. I think if the Mafia had more disruptive powers that work when they know confirmed information then the Town would have and probably should have lost as fast as Day 3.
But then again that's asking for too much complexity so yea. Good game everyone that wasn't annoying or that actually made the thread somewhat fun to read. Thanks for hosting Dr.H
This was the PM chain with sandroba that pretty much cemented my stance on don't tell people shit unless you are sure they know what they are doing and are 100% confirmed innocent
+ Show Spoiler +
From: sandroba [ 2439 posts | Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Re: ss mafia
Date: 4/16/12 17:09
Gahh man the night hits are too weird if this was your scum team. I'll prob decide midway through the day. I'd hate to shoot you and have you flip town. But your fucking claim makes no sense and doesn't help at all.
Can you tell me your thoughts on sinensis/jackal/coagulation?
Original Message From Ace:
do what you want
Hide nested quote -
Original Message From sandroba:
I'm not begging lol. I'm telling you, you either claim or I shoot you in the face.
Original Message From Ace:
keep your volume down and take those threats elsewhere. You aren't confirmed because you know information. Stop with the dumb logic and stop begging for information.
Original Message From sandroba:
You claimed acro target grush (after i told everybody that) and that l10f targeted acro. I am confirmed because i know a fuck ton of roles and all the important ones are still alive and didn't get roleblocked. Also I directed that vigi kp that hit scum. I'll also kill one more during the day I think.
So if you don't want to be shot down you better come clean. And fucking help me out if you are town.
Original Message From Ace:
I dont know how you are "quadruple" confirmed. And I didn't claim anything in the thread.
Original Message From sandroba:
Rofl, why not? I'm like quadruple confirmed town. And you are basically claiming some sort of tracker in the thread.
Original Message From Ace:
now now, you know I'm not going to claim to you at this point in time
Original Message From sandroba:
Hey, could you claim to me pls? I'm missing just a few.
Dude was begging and thought just because he asked I would tell him my role. Somehow he also thought saying "hey, I'm confirmed" would make me magically sway my decision to tell him stuff like some of the scrubs in this game.
Lastly, if in every post game I ever post in I tell people don't go around making massive Scum/Town posts on Day 1, why the hell do you think I would somehow 180 that advice and give you my reads via PM? I was purposely vague with information to some people just because I didn't trust you guys to be smart enough to screen who you gave info to. Seems like I was right as wbg was all up in the "town circle". I never even give Ver and Incognito info in PM games and since they are 100x smarter about locking info than the people begging me you must be out of your fucking minds to think I'd give you anything. At least learn how to compartmentalize your information.
|
I can't tell what you were doing in PM land unfortunately, I stopped paying attention to the thread and alien QT in large part after my arguments with WBG so whatever you did to salvage your play after the shot on Ace went unnoticed, most of what I posted in my post-game was copy pasted from a document I started at that time and hadn't updated.
If all the vig shots were your doing that's good. You did well getting all the information you did, but the shot on Ace was a really bad call. Were you operating under the assumption that thief was a scum-exclusive role as well?
|
On April 21 2012 17:28 Node wrote:
Holy fuck, will you guys please stop shitting on DrH for giving valid constructive criticisms of your play? You are taking this way too personally, and instead of actually having a discussion (which could be useful for all people who played, observed, or will later read this game) when you disagree you're getting offended and having heated arguments. Kindly stop.
I can accept that I was heated and I possibly went over the line.
However you must be able to see that calling sandroba "the worst player in the game" is no way constructive and in no way is it even remotely true.
Calling him the worst player when there were clearly dozens of players who did next to nothing this game and were essentially carried to victory is an insult both to sandro and to other players on this forum.
And dozens is not by any means an exaggeration.
|
On April 21 2012 17:14 gonzaw wrote:
If you honestly didn't believe that items "confirmed" people (well, to be honest I still don't really know how they worked, perhaps someone thoroughly explaining how they worked would be great) and just did it to pressure people and see how they'd react to you or claim to you, then I guess it's fine.
I don't know if something similar would have happened in Aperture if PMs were allowed.
Meh, maybe that's why I don't play in PM games at all, too much complexity, variance and in most cases confusion, and you need to spend a shitload of time answering/sending PMs and having convos and shit
I didn't ever think that. But I knew that if I told everyone I could confirm people scum would delay claims. Scum was scared shitless of claiming. That netted us all scum except wbg, who was exposed by stealing eran and having green check on chaoser.
|
On April 21 2012 17:40 sandroba wrote:
"Sandroba was playing terribly, threatening to shoot anyone who didn't do exactly what he asked. He threatened to kill VE several times for not returning the DT items he stole and killed Ace for not following his orders."
Clearly I was playing terribly by getting all scum. Real bad play i should have got all scum day 1 instead of day 3 for it to be good. I also never threatened to shoot VE. I questioned to get a read and that was terrible play also cuz I should have known VE was town by default obviously.
are you always this arrogant and petulant? just let it go
|
On April 21 2012 17:40 sandroba wrote:
"Sandroba was playing terribly, threatening to shoot anyone who didn't do exactly what he asked. He threatened to kill VE several times for not returning the DT items he stole and killed Ace for not following his orders."
Clearly I was playing terribly by getting all scum. Real bad play i should have got all scum day 1 instead of day 3 for it to be good. I also never threatened to shoot VE. I questioned to get a read and that was terrible play also cuz I should have known VE was town by default obviously.
From what I read in the QT you were telling VE you were gonna kill him if he didn't return his item to Erandorr even though he didn't particularly want to keep it. If that's wrong I have no way of knowing that. By the time you had shot Ace I had a very low opinion of your play but if you managed to pull off the rest of those Vig shots and bully mafia into losing late game then you're definitely MVP, it's unfortunate my arguments with WBG made me upset enough to basically stop modding.
I'm not a good mod, it was apparent in Haunted. I'm just gonna stop posting before I upset more people, I apologize to everyone for the terrible game and for being too critical. I think I'm done with TL mafia for a while, I'm too stupid for this shit.
|
On April 21 2012 17:47 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:14 gonzaw wrote:
If you honestly didn't believe that items "confirmed" people (well, to be honest I still don't really know how they worked, perhaps someone thoroughly explaining how they worked would be great) and just did it to pressure people and see how they'd react to you or claim to you, then I guess it's fine.
I don't know if something similar would have happened in Aperture if PMs were allowed.
Meh, maybe that's why I don't play in PM games at all, too much complexity, variance and in most cases confusion, and you need to spend a shitload of time answering/sending PMs and having convos and shit I didn't ever think that. But I knew that if I told everyone I could confirm people scum would delay claims. Scum was scared shitless of claiming. That netted us all scum except wbg, who was exposed by stealing eran and having green check on chaoser.
That's a good play that went unnoticed by me due to the nature of the game.
I was surprised scum wouldn't fakeclaim to you immediately day 1 especially after I provided them all with an exactly worded town role pm. Scum really fell apart from infighting and lack of communication. Jackal consulted nobody about his claim then came into the QT to call WBG an arrogant piece of shit and a jackass after he got called out for being dumb and got bussed
|
fuck that DrH, TL Mafia is just packed with big egos. Take a break, but seriously, don't take how this game went down personally.
|
On April 21 2012 17:48 EchelonTee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:40 sandroba wrote:
"Sandroba was playing terribly, threatening to shoot anyone who didn't do exactly what he asked. He threatened to kill VE several times for not returning the DT items he stole and killed Ace for not following his orders."
Clearly I was playing terribly by getting all scum. Real bad play i should have got all scum day 1 instead of day 3 for it to be good. I also never threatened to shoot VE. I questioned to get a read and that was terrible play also cuz I should have known VE was town by default obviously. are you always this arrogant and petulant? just let it go
It's my bad for using such strong words when I don't even know what happened over the last 4-5 days because I stopped reading the thread. Poorly designed game, poorly modded, to be expected of me. It's fine.
|
On April 21 2012 17:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I can't tell what you were doing in PM land unfortunately, I stopped paying attention to the thread and alien QT in large part after my arguments with WBG so whatever you did to salvage your play after the shot on Ace went unnoticed, most of what I posted in my post-game was copy pasted from a document I started at that time and hadn't updated.
If all the vig shots were your doing that's good. You did well getting all the information you did, but the shot on Ace was a really bad call. Were you operating under the assumption that thief was a scum-exclusive role as well?
Yes. The vigi shot on ace was not accurate. LOL. Am I supposed to be completely infallible? However all the other shots and lynches I orchestrated were. If you compare myself to perfect I'm sure I'll come up short. Sorry. I must suck.
|
On April 21 2012 17:51 EchelonTee wrote:
fuck that DrH, TL Mafia is just packed with big egos. Take a break, but seriously, don't take how this game went down personally.
I spent hours writing endless flavor for nothing and all this game will be remembered for is the bad setup and drama, I'm frustrated.
|
If I was town, I probably wouldn't have claimed to sandroba. I still remember the Mafia RoleSniper in Steamship Mafia.
|
On April 21 2012 17:52 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I can't tell what you were doing in PM land unfortunately, I stopped paying attention to the thread and alien QT in large part after my arguments with WBG so whatever you did to salvage your play after the shot on Ace went unnoticed, most of what I posted in my post-game was copy pasted from a document I started at that time and hadn't updated.
If all the vig shots were your doing that's good. You did well getting all the information you did, but the shot on Ace was a really bad call. Were you operating under the assumption that thief was a scum-exclusive role as well? Yes. The vigi shot on ace was not accurate. LOL. Am I supposed to be completely infallible? However all the other shots and lynches I orchestrated were. If you compare myself to perfect I'm sure I'll come up short. Sorry. I must suck.
There's a reason it was a bad shot beyond his alignment, mainly that he was exhibition no scummy behaviors but keep harping at me if you can't take even the smallest amount of criticism. Id on't feel shitty enough about this game already.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
