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On April 21 2012 17:52 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I can't tell what you were doing in PM land unfortunately, I stopped paying attention to the thread and alien QT in large part after my arguments with WBG so whatever you did to salvage your play after the shot on Ace went unnoticed, most of what I posted in my post-game was copy pasted from a document I started at that time and hadn't updated.
If all the vig shots were your doing that's good. You did well getting all the information you did, but the shot on Ace was a really bad call. Were you operating under the assumption that thief was a scum-exclusive role as well? Yes. The vigi shot on ace was not accurate. LOL. Am I supposed to be completely infallible? However all the other shots and lynches I orchestrated were. If you compare myself to perfect I'm sure I'll come up short. Sorry. I must suck.
Quit with the attitude. Sure you found a ton of scum, however you did not play a game of mafia. You did not analyze, you tried and managed to break a game setup. That is nothing to be proud of. Regardless of how you played within the game result wise you played hardcore against the spirit of the game. The amount of attitude you are currently displaying makes it clear you have no fing idea what you did wrong.
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On April 21 2012 17:47 sandroba wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:14 gonzaw wrote:
If you honestly didn't believe that items "confirmed" people (well, to be honest I still don't really know how they worked, perhaps someone thoroughly explaining how they worked would be great) and just did it to pressure people and see how they'd react to you or claim to you, then I guess it's fine.
I don't know if something similar would have happened in Aperture if PMs were allowed.
Meh, maybe that's why I don't play in PM games at all, too much complexity, variance and in most cases confusion, and you need to spend a shitload of time answering/sending PMs and having convos and shit I didn't ever think that. But I knew that if I told everyone I could confirm people scum would delay claims. Scum was scared shitless of claiming. That netted us all scum except wbg, who was exposed by stealing eran and having green check on chaoser.
That's good play then.
Forcing scum to make mistakes, slip or make bad decisions (or decisions you would expect from scum), even if lying (by saying you could "confirm" people) is a good plan.
Of course not taking it to the other extreme by bullying players and stuff (well, at least by what DH said).
Ehmm, although if you bully everybody and rule like a dictator in PM-land, and you single-handily win the game for town...is it considered bad play? :/
Maybe the fault was on all the townies that blindly claimed to you and allowed you to spot all the remaining scum  (again, I guess that's the fault of this being a PM game, I've seen countless of games were a single player basically has all the info and everybody claims to him).
Also wbg explained the item thing to me so I understand it better (although I still don't get the item-stealing and how it relates to the ones that use it, and the empower/diminish whatever thing, but well whatever)
Were scum given safeclaims about the items? Or at least knowledge about them?
Also lol only 3 threads are red and the rest are yellow
Slow day at TL?
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Sorry I was out of line. I understand that you are upset odch, but saying that about my play when i put a fuck ton of effort in this game really pissed me off. I didn't want to come across as arrogant, i just didn't like the mod lash on me for no reason.
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On April 21 2012 17:53 DoctorHelvetica wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 17:52 sandroba wrote:On April 21 2012 17:47 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I can't tell what you were doing in PM land unfortunately, I stopped paying attention to the thread and alien QT in large part after my arguments with WBG so whatever you did to salvage your play after the shot on Ace went unnoticed, most of what I posted in my post-game was copy pasted from a document I started at that time and hadn't updated.
If all the vig shots were your doing that's good. You did well getting all the information you did, but the shot on Ace was a really bad call. Were you operating under the assumption that thief was a scum-exclusive role as well? Yes. The vigi shot on ace was not accurate. LOL. Am I supposed to be completely infallible? However all the other shots and lynches I orchestrated were. If you compare myself to perfect I'm sure I'll come up short. Sorry. I must suck. There's a reason it was a bad shot beyond his alignment, mainly that he was exhibition no scummy behaviors but keep harping at me if you can't take even the smallest amount of criticism. Id on't feel shitty enough about this game already.
This. I wasn't shot because I was scummy. I honestly don't even know how I came off as Scummy but w/e. I was shot because I didn't want to cooperate with some make believe Town circle. I stated like 4 times in the thread I didn't trust whoever sandroba was PMing with and got shot due to me not going a long with his iron fist dictatorship or believing his bullshit about being confirmed Town.
@Vayesh: I don't think he broke the setup. I didn't notice any abuse of game mechanics to one up Scum except lots of yelling and bitching for people to claim to him. *Shrug*
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we were given some safe claims but the problem was that we couldn't properly back them up without use of them.
In order to use an item we had to sacrifice KP, which would've outted us because there would be missing KP that we could not account for. In addition, using a DT item to "confirm" ourselves would essentially be shooting ourselves in the foot because we would be either confirming townies as greens in the same way or bussing our own buddies. e: and if we lied about the results then we would be found out eventually, probably within a cycle or two.
Simple knowledge of something doesn't translate into actually being able to do something about it. If you don't have the necessary means to deal with something it doesn't matter what you know. That was proved by me having knowledge of almost all the town roles yet being powerless to stop the consolidation.
And by powerless I'm not kidding. Even if we double stacked sandro n1 and then used our RB+steal, we would've killed no one else on n1 and then we would've still lost l10f (since sandro had already consolidated the vig during that cycle) and then the townies sandro trusted would already have reliable info to hit 2-3 more scum. They were already onto snb and jackal and once jackal was dead coag was dead as well.
That left me and ET, and ET wasn't hidden terribly well and I couldn't hide forever. I chose the "kill as many townies as possible n1" route which worked slightly differently, but obviously it would lead to the same result. Jackal+snb+l10f (and coag by extension of jackal) were already dead by cycle 1. That's 4 out of 6 scum. What are we to do at that point?
EDIT: And think about it this way:
imagine if Ace had complied with the town circle and put his tracker item on erandor.
At that point it would've outted me and snb as scum instantly.
That would've essentially meant the entire scumteam minus ET would be dead by n2 and ET wouldn't survive much longer than that.
Imagine that we had chosen to go with a plan I had considered before, to use both the RB AND the steal on erandor (sacrificing a KP in order to do so.) That would've essentially meant all 6 of us would be dead by n2.
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Sandroba was the best player in the game and it is insulting to even suggest otherwise
By the way, Coag/Jackal/l10f/S&B didn't get caught based on game mechanics, but were all heavily suspected as early as day 1
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Okay people, can we just agree that PM games suck and leave it at that?
EDIT: Maybe external communication should be done, but be regulated and have a set of rules and stuff.
For instance, make rules so that nobody can claim via E.C if they haven't done so in the thread, or until something has happened (e.g people can't claim in PMs until it's Day 3 or maybe something related to the game).
Or maybe make it like epicmafia that a small percentage of PMs is leaked to the game thread (so it discourages people from having long secret conversations).
I don't know how to make external conversations between EACH combination of players possible though.
Create a QT for every combination of 2 players perhaps? But that would require like 1000 or more QTs in larger games.
Is there another way to regulate external communication? Maybe a specific site designed for this or something.
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On April 21 2012 18:01 syllogism wrote:
Sandroba was the best player in the game and it is insulting to even suggest otherwise, DrH
By the way, Coag/Jackal/l10f/S&B didn't get caught based on game mechanics, but were all heavily suspected as early as day 1
yup, this is 100% true. All four of those players were caught in cycle 1.
You snowball that hard and fast and no scumteam will be able to stop that.
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And it's laughable to suggest that utilizing game mechanics the way they are intended to be used is "breaking the game"
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Anyway, while I personally believe there may have been some balance issues, I really like setups like this and the flavor was good as always. Thanks for hosting
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On April 21 2012 18:06 syllogism wrote:
And it's laughable to suggest that utilizing game mechanics the way they are intended to be used is "breaking the game"
eh? As a host I can clearly state that in no point in time do I expect players to suggest, quote, or drop heavy hints to the contents of my role pm wording. I only really talked to sandro day 1 and all he wanted was my role, exactly what it was (to make sure it was the same as everyone else claimed), and what item I had. But saying "its a dt role, its a hatter role" etc... wasn't specific enough, it had to be the exact name of the item.
I didn't like the direction he was taking and never really talked to him after that. The only other people I talked to at all during this game were giving me similar feedback. How do you think my view is going to be? Nothing I saw or heard was at all scum hunting, it was "show me your pm" basically.
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You can claim item names because items can be transferred. Nothing else was claimed
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I never asked for role pm stuff. I asked for role name and item name and that is standard. You don't claim guy that can shoot, you claim vigi or whatever. I didn't fucking cheat. I did terrorize scum by saying I could confirm players, but that was part of the plan.
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where did all the alien pictures come from? creeped the hell out of me
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Sorry for shooting you ace, but I expected you to correctly identify me as town and help me rape scum. You acted in the same pattern as mafia and that's why I shot you. Also I respect your scum game and wanted to eliminate variables that lead us to lose.
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Well...at least the Ace shot couldn't possibly be worse than VE's shot on Aperture >_>
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So many emotions in this, seriusly chill? No reason to have any bad blood.
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On April 21 2012 18:26 Barundar wrote:
So many emotions in this, seriusly chill? No reason to have any bad blood.
+1
Barundar's my new bro
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On April 21 2012 18:21 sandroba wrote:
Sorry for shooting you ace, but I expected you to correctly identify me as town and help me rape scum. You acted in the same pattern as mafia and that's why I shot you. Also I respect your scum game and wanted to eliminate variables that lead us to lose.
I don't know how many times I have to say this. I don't trust the people sandroba is PMing with. I'm not telling you anything because you can't keep information to yourself and the people you were PMing with I guessed would be Scum.
I wasn't wrong about this.
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Doctor Helvetica if You get depressed again I ask going to rip Your balls off. Being host is hard. Having own opinion is legal, so stop tucking arguing. I should be shot together with Ace if it was really about not cooperating. I was against it till d2.
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EPT
