EPTNewbie Mini Mafia VII - Page 2
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Bocki
Germany98 Posts
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Bocki
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Bocki
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On April 09 2012 06:30 LazinCajun wrote: Just to get this post in before the night in case I die (I have NOT taken a ton of time to think about this) Current scum reads: Bocki / gossemerr: Town: Me, probably Nova. I'm less sure about BlueyD. I do want to review nova's filter in more detail to make reconfirm that he's town, but I've been getting town vibes all game. Lazin: I myself know that I'm not town and I share your view of Lazin and Nova. But lining up gossemeer with me is strange, since he would have been the one that would have been lynched if we would have gone through with my mathematical solution. It was his luck that he started the bandwagon, because I think that if anyone would have started a bandwagon and said "yeah, lets do it, i vote gosse" (which was a really high probability), I would have killed my supposed mafia compadre on day1. That wouldnt make sense. My read stays on BlueyD. He's only been half-heartedly defending himself against me. He is attacking gosse the whole time, attacked iamallinson for not speaking up in the first lynch vote (which would have sent gosse to the guilotine) and so on. I know, I might be focused on him, but he still is my best read. | ||
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Bocki
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Well.. so much for bocki/gossemerr are mafia. So, everyone that attacked BlueyD is dead except me. He probably didnt want to make it so obvious. My read for Scum: BlueyD and Therapist. I dont think I will have to wait 48 hours to do my vote. ##Vote: BlueyD If you dont come up with a brilliant read on someone else, I wont change the vote. | ||
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Bocki
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Otherwise: The guy I was suspecting since D2 and that I voted for twice is voting me? What a surprise. I will get to the rest when I get home. | ||
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Bocki
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sorry for the long wait, but I was on a family meeting the whole day and just came back. The "Scumslip": I explained what happened this morning and I think it is comprehensible when you look at the postings in the night. As for most of us, this is my first game and it is to learn how to play it. I learned from this that I shouldnt post in the circumstances of tonight. On April 09 2012 16:13 LazinCajun wrote: If Bocki interpreted this negatively, why did he make such a weak and indirect case against me (it sounds weird, I don't know what to think, it's just weird!), then totally drop it later? ....... As strange as it sounds, I think that him not attacking me is pretty inconsistent behavior and gives me scum vibes. As I said in the post, I did not interpret this negatively, I just wanted to note that I found that sentence strange of you. At that point, I didnt have a read on you, not town, not scum. I wanted to get one of the better analytics (therapist, nova, era) to take a look at your filter to see if they find something that supports that "weird feeling". It didnt lead to anything, and right after my post, you did a very good analysis ( this one http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=325394¤tpage=12#234 ). That convinced me that my hunch was baseless and that you are a pretty good pro-town player. I didnt post this specifically, since no one noticed or supported the "hunch"-post in the first place, so I didnt think about it. On April 09 2012 14:28 BlueyD wrote: 2. Unlike Bocki, I’ve aimed at more than one person. I’ve attacked Gosse a lot, but I’ve not spent “the whole time” on him. Bocki knows this, as he points out a jab I took at another player in the very next sentence, so this attack is unwarranted at best and a lie at worst. Attacking gosse over more posts and noting iamallinson in 4 lines isnt the same thing. On April 09 2012 14:28 BlueyD wrote: 2. Here’s my problem with this logic: Let’s assume I’m mafia and I want to hit someone without getting suspicious, yet I also take out a vote against me… then Why is Bocki alive? Gossemerr acknowledged, yesterday, that my defense was “pretty good” and that he wasn’t quite ready to vote for me “until I [Goss] can prove with more persuasion that he [Bluey] is scum.” I had heavy pressure on me from Goss, but not a guaranteed vote, and him being hit guarantees a bunch of fingers pointed at me due to our drawn-out argument while also taking out a vote that, while it was coming at me, was not unflexible. I could ask you the same question: Since you are my most vivid attacker, why are you still alive if I was scum? I would have had 2 Nights to get you, but yet: you are still alive. If I take your premise, you are the only one that I attacked all the time. You attacked more persons (from your point of view) including the late iamallinson and the late gossemeer. The only person I really attacked is still alive. If this is a scum tactic, thats a really crappy tactic. On April 09 2012 14:28 BlueyD wrote: And notice how Bocki doesn’t even wonder why Goss was hit over himself, just dismissing that possibility with an “except myself”… Maybe he already knows he can’t get hit? I did wonder, and I did explain why I think he died instead of me. On April 09 2012 07:08 Bocki wrote: ....He probably didnt want to make it so obvious.... On April 09 2012 14:28 BlueyD wrote: ...hence why he tried to link this hit with the most scum-looking target at the moment, which is me. If I’d been scum at that moment and I had wanted to hit someone who would certainly vote for me D3 while not attracting too much attention, the best hit would have been Bocki. Scu, failed to consider this because, from their point of view, Bocki wasn’t a possible hit target to begin with, and so the honor fell to Goss. I cant really follow the reasoning in this. Now you say that I would have been the better target because you look more scummy, but the mafia failed to see it. But it stands 2-3, so I wouldnt assume that mafia is stupid. Nova: He's my best town read after lazin, since he has been posting a lot of good information. He is (in my opinion) the best analyist, shortly followed by lazin. This may be scummy behaviour (beeing so obviously town that he isnt) but my gut feeling tells me he is town. He has been after therapist in the last postings, who is my second mafia read, maybe that also helps my gut feeling. I sense that it comes down to me or blueyd this day. I vote for Blueyd BlueyD votes for me Lazin firstly voted for BlueyD but keeps his option open to change Nova will probably vote for therapist it comes down to what therapist votes. Since therapist is my second mafia read, this is really bad. Lets see how he decides. If you find typos, you can keep them, this was the work of 12 simultanious open tabs | ||
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Bocki
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So I will change my vote from my suspect #1 to suspect #2 to get a maf. ##Unvote: BlueyD ##Vote: Therapist | ||
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Therapist is on of the guys that didnt bring much content. As lazin said, he didnt respond to the "post more" postings from various others. Now he's under the gun and suddenly claims blue. Not only does he claim blue, but he said he investigated BlueyD and gosse. Gosse is dead, so it wont do much to talk about that. But the "BlueyD is a towny" investigation is the scummiest part. Lets see what we thought: Bocki: Therapist and BlueyD scum Lazin: Therapist and Bocki/BlueyD scum Nova: Therapist and Bocki/BlueyD scum BlueyD: Therapist and Bocki scum Therapist: Nova, Lazin, Bocki scum BlueyD and me think of each other as scum, I think mainly because we have been over each other the entire game. Therapist comes up, says he's blue and makes BlueyD inno. This is my prediction on what scum (therapist/blueyd) thought this will go down  this is after I switched to therapist, so 3 votes for therapist, 1 for me)Therapist told BlueyD to vote for him, to complete the bandwagon Therapist brings out the "blue"-hammer, makes BlueyD inno and calls Bock/lazin/nova scum. Therapist hopes that one of us 3 switches votes to whoever but BlueyD (hey, he's inno! and therapist is blue!) BlueyD switches to that person Therapist votes that person. That would make 3 votes and the lynch. This blue call is too convenient to be true. I know, calling blue at any time is not good and if he really was blue, now would be the time. But calling investigating blueyd before... too convenient. He probably chose these 2 persons because he voted on the days before the night he claims to have investigated. He even brought up the idea of a tactical vote, just to call it "poor play" On April 08 2012 01:47 Therapist. wrote: I sure hope it's not scenario 3 as I am also voting for BlueyD. Seems like it'd be poor play to vote for your teammate early unless it's late in the game the person being voted for has been established as 100% scum. On April 09 2012 11:04 Therapist. wrote: I don't believe BlueyD to be mafia. I strongly disagree with bandwagoning onto him immediately. Instead, I would question the motives behind Bocki and LazinCajun INSTANTLY throwing down votes on BlueyD. I clearly stated my motives, Lazin as well. So I dont know what you want to question about them. Maybe its just to try to produce confusion (hence the CAPITALIZATION). I'll post more if I notice something else. | ||
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Bocki
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On April 10 2012 05:56 Bocki wrote: Therapist hopes that one of us 3 switches votes to whoever but BlueyD (hey, he's inno! and therapist is blue!) BlueyD switches to that person Therapist votes that person. Well, looks like my prediction came true, just that the order switched. But I think this is mostly due to therapist seeing that he cant wait for someone else and has to start the vote himself. On April 10 2012 07:02 Therapist. wrote: Bocki is so focused and aggressive. There's no reason for him to not even want to look at anybody else. He's tunnel visioning his weak case on BlueyD and myself without even BOTHERING to look at the others. I said numerous times that I may be too focused on BlueyD, but I also made comments about others. I didnt make a case against anyone else because I didnt see anything (which makes kind of sense since until now, only town/blue has died). I didnt see anything about you because you posted only a few times and to be true, you slipped my mind. But the cases against you were good, and they fit my town-reads (lazin/nova) so I have no reason to doubt that you and BlueyD are mafia. Specially after both of your recent votes. On April 10 2012 08:29 BlueyD wrote: There would have been no reason to actively bus me at that point, and it would’ve been an incredibly risky move to plan to switch his D2 vote away from me if I needed some saving at the end. Only reason I still live, remember, is that Gossemerr (of all people) switched his vote. .. that is unless he would have switched his vote. He had time enough and could have gone with the same reason that gosse wrote. On April 10 2012 08:29 BlueyD wrote: 1. Contradictory. Bocki says now is effectively the best time for a blue to claim… But one did claim, and Bocki just dismisses it as “too convenient to be true”! Bocki doesn’t even seriously consider that Therapist may be blue. Why? 2. Why is this dismissed as “too convenient” too? If Bocki agrees that I looked scummy – and he really can’t disagree with that – then he also has to agree that I was a good DT check, no? 3. The whole point of being a cop is scumhunting, so cops check those who are most suspicious for them – often the same people they voted for, if they haven’t been lynched. He’s speculating again where there’s a much simpler explanation. Like lazin said: I didnt say that this is the best time to call blue, I only said that, beeing under the gun, is the only time to call blue. And I would consider it more or would even believe it, IF there wasnt that convenient truth that he investigated you to make BlueyD a 100% Towner. That is what I meant with "too convenient". Because if you too are maf, you only need to get 1 out of 2 (since I am not going to vote myself) to vote for me. Thats why therapist voted me instead of lazin or nova. It is easier for BlueyD to say "yeah, I thought that the whole time" if they go for me. Right now, I'm the weakest target because lazin and nova are pretty convinced of each other to be green. I am in question of beeing scum, so it's naturally to go for me, altough the cases against me were vague at best. On April 10 2012 08:29 BlueyD wrote: Meanwhile, Bocki just dismisses that possibility with no analysis, sticking hard to his ‘convictions’. Which one looks the scummiest? Well… This is funny if you think about it. I voted for BlueyD on D2 and started the vote for BlueyD on D3. If I would stay with my 'conviction' I would keep my vote for BlueyD, and suddenly, its a 2-2-1 situation. Wouldnt that make me look less scummy? Since I wouldnt be working together with my "partner" but go on a solo mission? I choose not to stay on you, because as Lazin said: The town needs to stick together to win this. | ||
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Bocki
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On April 10 2012 13:28 LazinCajun wrote: This could easily be explained like this instead: Red BlueyD, red Therapist option -- I point out a potential connection between you two based on day 1 votes. Day 2 you split your votes to hide mafia ties, and you're not really in any danger of dying since after Gossemer's vote (1.5 hours before the deadline, plenty of time for therapist to switch votes and save you) puts Era into the noose. I overlooked that you wrote this, but it's good that we both thought of it like this. | ||
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Bocki
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On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote: I interpret this to mean “we generally want blues to stay hidden most of the time, so it’s understandable that if Therapist’s claim is true, it only comes up now that he’s on the block: before was a bad time to claim, and after would be too late, therefore now is the best moment”. So, yeah, Bocki dismisses the possibility as “too convenient”, then admits it is consistent with good blue play in the next sentence. Scummy, scummy, scummy. Basically you are saying: Whatever I would have said about the blue claim, it would make me look scummy. From your perspective, therapist is 90% blue (I'll get to that later) which means that (since you say you are green), 2 out of Lazin/Nova/Bocki are red. Yet you did not post any red-things about neither of the other two (only saying that both somehow agreed that they are green... no other read or analysis). So I seem to be the only red... That would be a surprise for all of us I bet :D On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote: You missed the goal of points 2 and 3 here: they are meant to attack Bocki, not to defend Therapist. I’m entirely aware that these do not make Therapist look more town-aligned, and that both explanations (red and blue) are an adequate explanation for these parts of his behavior. That’s the whole point I’m trying to make in that part of my post: Bocki never even considers the blue Therapist possibility. He just says “nah, can’t be”, and offers no explanation except speculations which start with what he has to prove: He assumes from the start that Therapist and I are red. This is tunnel vision. I considered that he was blue. I said that his position was the only position to make sense to call blue. And I say the "but" again: ...., but making you green from his investigation just fits too good into scum play! To write some percentage points from my view about possible investigations: 2 dead people: 50% chance. (From the rules, this would be possible, but very unlikely) 1 dead, lazin: 80% chance (since I am pretty sure that he is green, based on my own analysis and of others) 1 dead, nova: 80% chance (since I am pretty sure that he is green, based on my own analysis and of others) 1 dead, bocki: 100% chance (of course) 1 dead, blueyd: 0% chance (based on the reads from several people about a possible connection between you two) 2 alive people: 0% chance. If he would have gotten both red in his "investigations", he could have just said so and the town would have won, even if he died. Then we could have seen that he was blue and accepted both of his investigations. On the "he assumes from the start..": No I didnt. I assumed that you are red for a few days, but therapist slipped my mind (as I already said). But after the analysis from Nova and myself looking through his posts, I agreed that he is scummy. On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote: Lazin, that little message to Nova and you was mostly meant to not just rely on what the other is saying – you’ve both looked town-aligned to each other (and to me) for a while and openly said so, but neither of you is actually confirmed. No one can be actually confirmed as anything at this point. The only way to be a confirmed green/red in this game is after the person dies or if the sane cop confirmes you and then dies (to confirm that he was indeed the sane cop). So everything is based on reads from the postings and voting behaviour. On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote: Here’s what it comes down to for me now: - My read on Therapist is 90% blue. - My read on Bocki is 90% red. - This leaves one of Nova and Lazin as scum and one as townie. Do I have a case on either? No, and in all likelihood I won’t today, but all we need right now is one red. I know why you think that I'm red (well.. to be true not completely, but okay). But I would like to know why you believe Therapist in his blue claim so much. Only because he called you green? As opposed to me, you haven't written an analysis of his blue claim and why you support it so much. To say it in your words: On April 10 2012 23:16 BlueyD wrote: Scummy, scummy, scummy. On April 11 2012 03:01 BlueyD wrote: Therapist: Since I can’t do it, try to look through the Nova and Lazin filters and make a case… Again: Why the belief in therapist? Like Lazin said, there is not much to read from his posts, yet you seem pretty determined that he is blue. Lazin: On April 11 2012 02:27 LazinCajun wrote: It would be much easier if Therapist hadn't been so damn lurky all game long. Exactly. This makes it hard to take the blue claim any more serious than I take it now. | ||
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Bocki
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On April 11 2012 05:43 BlueyD wrote: Both were inactive at the start but therapist gave us a plausible reason for his behavior, Bocki has not. I wasnt inactive, I was just not posting fluff or blindly accusing someone. I was never inactive the whole game. On April 11 2012 05:43 BlueyD wrote: When Bocki was asked to contribute he was almost angry about being pulled from the shadows. I wasnt angry, I told you the reason why I wanted to wait. This is basically the same accusation that you said before, which I explained. This is just warming up stuff to make me look scummy. On April 11 2012 05:43 BlueyD wrote: Bocki never had an original thought, he didn't start the attack on me and he didn't start the attack on therapist. Now I'm scum because I didnt attack no one? If by "no one" you mean yourself, then you might be right. And I didnt attack therapist because he was my #2 scum read and I wanted to get you (my #1 scum read). Since its 3-2, I told lazin and nova (that are my town reads) that I will follow them if they make a better case against therapist... Do I really have to write all of this again? Whoever looks at those posts sees exactly my train of thought. This is again just warming up stuff that has been explained thoroughly by me or others. On April 11 2012 05:43 BlueyD wrote: Bocki freaking scumslipped! ... warming up much? Your whole post was a warming up of stuff that was explained before. Instead of doing what Lazin asked you/therapist to do (make a case against lazin or nova) you reposted stuff from before. | ||
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Bocki
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 Nope, my first language is german. I learned english in school, but since I am working on/with computers for roughly 20 years ( http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/vs-ibm-xt.jpg this was my first computer) I learned english mostly due to computer related stuff. learning programming languages, playing the first text based games (you dont want to know how long it took me to figure out some of the words for Leisure Suit Larry 1... first the issue of identifying and THEN the issue of the word in another language ... at age 8  ) and so on. so my english is mainly from computer related stuff or music.In german, "warming something up" is a common expression if someone brings up old/known stuff to (normally) get on the nerves of someone. Imagine your mom telling you when you screwed something up: "This is exactly as the time when you did this 10 years ago". That is warming something up. | ||
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On April 11 2012 06:46 Therapist. wrote: Here, let me go ahead and put together the most convincing case ever in just 15 minutes. No, sorry. There's nothing more to be said that would change your mind. We can lose and move on to the next game, that's fine. Dont say that you only had 15 minutes. You know how much time you had. | ||
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