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Refallen
452 Posts
Excited! | ||
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My first thoughts on the setup; Obviously, I think the best way to go about this game is to focus on killing angels in the early game. Once we get rid of the acolyte, the seer has an infinitely easier job in cleansing corruption because we can actually claim if we got corrupted and not get targetted right now as we get closer to the late game lynching demons obviously becomes more and more important, but town would have a huge benefit if we can reduce angel KP early on in the game, as this has a building effect of letting more townies live = demon corrupt has less of an impact. | ||
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(plus my posts are shorter!) | ||
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Why is everyone tunneling the lurkish newbie? He is sooooo likely to flip town instead of scum. Just look at Election Mafia, and XLVIII. In almost every case, the lurking newbie simply turns out to be just that, a newbie, which explains his low-posting. We definitely do not want to be wasting a lynch on him. it might be good to kill him just because even if he is town he could be useless. This is never a good idea. Even a town who is completely non-contributing serves as an extra KP before LYLO, and for most newbie towns, they will be sheeping the case which most people are already on, in effect letting town have an extra vote. We should never ever ever kill town "because he's useless at it". I'm not sure what you're going on about having a solid case. How does one make a solid case on someone who has 3 posts and told us they're going afk for a bit on the very first day of the game? For now, I don't have a lynch target. I want Palmar to start posting. | ||
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Honestly though, was at a friends birthday party, just got home, about to sleep. Syllo, and others, I don't see how showing angels were a bigger threat than demons would paint me as anti-town. Keep in mind that the context of the post when it was made; all of us were discussing the setup (mainly because it was start of day 1 and it served as a topic of discussion.) Obviously the point about us not being able to tell who was demon/angel makes the whole discussion basically practically useless, but it provided a topic for us to start talking about the game (if you want useless posts, see palmars kite claim) With that said, I'll be reading through the thread tomorrow and posting who I think are suspicious. Right now at least my previous suspicion of Palmar has been assuaged at him posting and being his usual bullying town self. | ||
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On January 05 2012 13:23 Blazinghand wrote: :/ it's not my responsability to make you do the right thing. At some point you will make a post with more than 2 lines, and when that day comes, the heavens shall be rent asunder in agony and anguish unlike any ever known before. You claim "everyone" is tunneling the lurkish newbie, but I don't see anyone tunneling bluelightz. Like, I think that question is just... false. I have vigorously questioned him and voted him, but I don't think anyone else has done anything remotely like tunneling him. Who are you quoting here? Cause I don't know who you're quoting. It looks like you might be quoting me but man would it kill you to say who you're quoting? In any case, Bluelightz is still being terrible. Hopefully he'll pick up the pace presently. My goal isn't to kill him unless he's scum. However, his current posting habits are entirely unacceptable. I will not stand for this, I will not sit for it. Not on a plane or on a train or in a house or with a mouse. "everyone tunnelling him" was a poor choice of words on my part, hyperbole. What I really wanted to say was, and I'm sure many would agree, that making a "good, solid case" on someone on the first third of the first day, when most of the players haven't even posted yet, on someone who seems obviously newbie and not experienced as mafia, is not going to happen. It was a bad case. Blazinghand wrote You are aware that demons have the same effective KP as angels right ._. every other night they "kill" two town votes with corruption, one by a townie no longer being able to vote, and one by the demons getting an extra vote. Look, just lynch hella mafia and our problem here is solved anyways. More lynching more win. I don't agree with this exactly, but ok, yes, obviously we should lynch anyone mafiaish. The point I was trying to make is that thereocrafting the setup provided a nice way to open up conversation about the game, especially in day 1. We were all thereocrafting setups and strats, including you blazinghand. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Non committal For now, I don't have a lynch target. I want Palmar to start posting. Syllo, it was this post where I expressed I wanted to look at Palmar. Maybe it sounds non-committal to you, but it's pretty clear to me that I was wanting to take a closer look at him. ------------------------------------------ risk.nuke wrote What I don't like about refallen is he posts just to look town. Even though I approve of strategy talk to give us something to talk about day 1 this doesn't fit. This is just empty. There is nothing here that can be of used by town or be discussed about. Fluff. Firstly, of course I'm trying to look town. I believe someone said somewhere before, but establishing yourself as town should be the goal of every townie. My strat discussion was as empty as the thread was prior to me posting it. We can agree that yes, it's pretty much practically useless, yes, I have addressed that. I just don't see how anyone could put that as mafia-ish. Everyone is not tunneling, coming to the rescue so quickly you don't even properly analyse the situation. Eager to appear protown? "Everyone not tunneling" is as I said before, a poor choice of words. But yes, I tried to come to bluelightz defense because I do not want a day1 lynch to be wasted, again, on some halpless newbie who turns up green/blue like always. And yes, obviously I want to get some town cred. The rest of the post is... "fluff" "I don't have a lynch target" "I Want palmar to start posting" "I want palmar to start posting" <-- "I want to take a closer look at Palmar if he dosen't start posting more" + Show Spoiler + This is just a stall post imo. He confirms he knows he is beeing looked at but doesn't write much for a defense. Instead he just says that tomorrow he'll write something usefull. Conclusion: I don't like his posts so far and I'm suspicious towards his hype followed by nothing but fluff. I'm waiting for his thoughts tomorrow and some better defense wouldn't hurt him. It was 2 freaking am and I was beat when I came back from the party. And it obviously wasn't a lie that I was going to sleep because if you look at my other games, I NEVER EVER EVER post during those times because, guess what, I was asleep. I am so mad that I'm still getting flak for this, after three games. risk.nuke, I think this was one of the worse case by you. I think you're just trying to find a lynch target and make some half-assed case so you appear town as well (gasp cwidt). In fact, I'm pretty suspicious of you right now. In election mafia, on the first day, you were not afraid to be aggressive, outspoken, obnoxious. You do not try to cook up shitty cases if you don't have one. Instead, you just post stuff like these; + Show Spoiler + Also GiygaS is scummy bastard. Todays lynches I would like one of these two. Graymist and GiygaS. Though there is a dilemma. I am more sure on Graymist then on Giygas and we'll learn more from Graymists flip then Giygas. Against Graymist probably beeing a more valuable townie then Giygas. No convoluted cases, just a straightforward, "I trust my own reads" kind of post. syllo, I started the post about 2 hours ago. I share what I want to share when I want to share it. Don't try and control me and please don't try to meta me. All my games I have a different style because I play varying of my mood. Well, haven't played more than a game with you so I can't tell if this is true or not. At the moment it seems like a cop out to me. So yes, to answer your question, if I were to shoot someone now, it would be you. (More posts inc after breakfast) | ||
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/in And the game is on. I'll start with some basic guidelines about mafia : O NOT BANDWAGON. Please always gives a reason for you vote. More importantly dont vote without thinking about just because 5 other players already voted. *BUILD STRONG CASE WHEN SCUMHUNTING. This game is about convincing other people, not yourself. dont expect people to follow your vote if dont build a strong case. EFEND YOURSELF. Even as town, you migth get FoS'ed or have a case build up against you. Please dont go troll mode, dont call everyone dumb, but instead defend yourself and tell us what was going through your mind. This is your best chance of not being lynched. Not following these basic guidelines is what screwed town over in the steamship mafia. Follow them to maximize our chances to win this game. Going to lunch now, I'll post about the specificities of the setup later today. Ok, sure, filler post, but whatever, start of day 1, generates discussion. Okay, first of all, as many people already have stated, the angel of Death should be our first target. Not only does he hold the angel KP, but the main issue for me is that The roles and alignement of his victim is NOT revealed. This does not seem to be the case if the other Angels use the slay ability. Restating what other people stated, useless practically, but ok, many people including me did discuss about this. Reffalen On January 04 2012 17:59 Refallen wrote: Not to mention that while angels CAN kill demons, it hardly seems optimal for them. With 11 town and only 3 of each faction, for angels to kill off demons would just mean that town will have an easier time. I think that we can consider the scenario of angel and demon killing each other therfore, highly improbable. I would like him to explain this statement. The more I think about it, the less sense it makes to me. Actually it looks more like he is saying "hey angels, please dont shoot demons". In practice of course killing all the demons is pretty good for the angels as they would not have to worry about them getting a lot of votes through corruption. And a blue is not more threatening than a demon for an angel. So reffallen, can you please explain why you thought it is not optimal for angels to kill demons ? I dont see much drawback for them doing this. Also it's your turn to step and and post. Who do you think is most scum rigth now ? I was pointing out how as town we cannot rely on angels to kill demons as it is not game-optimal for them. And I don't see how you can see "much drawback" for them in doing this. If angels all devoted their night-time actions to killing demons for example, by day 4, obviously town will have a huge advantage because there's only 3 scum left. So yeah, pretty shitty ass case on me. So back to you. Basically, you have had 2 posts discussing the setup, objectively useless in scumhunting. But you know that's ok, that's not mafiaish (yet, but if people keep doing this throughout the day then it's a scumtell imo) Says we should ignore Palmar/syllo banter? Completely disagree. Syllo obviously had a really good reason for pushing Palmar, and to say you want to completely disregard it is pretttttty bad/scummy. Looks almost like you're soft-defending Palmar tbh. Leaning scummy on Tyrran -------------- I'm thinking Jackal is town this game. At least, he appears to be taking a different route than on TLXLVIII when he was scum. Plus I don't think any scum would risk trying to outright lynch Palmar without a really detailed case. -------------- I have leaning town reads on syllo, blazinghand, layabout. And yes, before anyone points out, I am now AGAIN suspicious of Palmar (after, as I said in my post 8 hours ago, rereading the thread again), mainly because of Tyrran's soft defense, as well as the cases Wiggles and Jackal made, both of whom I am leaning town on, and both of whom are better players than me. Furthermore, if Palmar flips red I think we should definitely go after Tyrran next. So to conclude my posting for now, my lynch targets are Palmar and risk.nuke. Among the two, I'm not sure who I want to lynch first. | ||
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On January 06 2012 11:43 Jackal58 wrote: Are you scum too? There should be zero confusion about which of those 2 you would want to lynch if you believe them both to be scum. No offense risk.nuke but you're not scary. Scum Palmar is scary. Yes, but there is a difference in which one I want to lynch FIRST. I don't see where that scum accusation came from, I really don't. With that said though, you're probably right that we should lynch the better scum player first, which is Palmar (I'm assuming). | ||
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risk.nuke, Yes, I'm still learning on how to best do that. But, please, before you suspect me any further, read my above posts and see what you think. I believe that has some actual content. | ||
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Because right now, I am much more comfortable in lynching risk.nuke than Palmar. | ||
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Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me? | ||
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On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote: They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable. However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur. Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments. Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families). Would someone really end up asking this? And I thought I found something DEEP and USEFUL too =( Then Zeph, would you prefer a lynch of risk.nuke to Palmar//Wiggles right now? | ||
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On January 06 2012 11:43 Jackal58 wrote: Show nested quote + Are you scum too? There should be zero confusion about which of those 2 you would want to lynch if you believe them both to be scum. No offense risk.nuke but you're not scary. Scum Palmar is scary. Yes, but there is a difference in which one I want to lynch FIRST. I don't see where that scum accusation came from, I really don't. With that said though, you're probably right that we should lynch the better scum player first, which is Palmar (I'm assuming). After this post actually. | ||
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On January 07 2012 10:05 Grackaroni wrote: Refallen I'm going to look more into you but please announce your votes before voting in the future. My bad. I've only played 2 games so far which involved a voting thread so it didn't hit me to announce my votes before voting. Four town votes is exactly the number necessary for scum hammering. They have 20+ hours to do so. Unless you know that there are scum on Palmar's votes, you shouldn't leave it there unless you want him lynched IMO. Mmm, you're probably right, but I think the fact that there are two scum teams would have made it harder for that to happen. And yes, right now I don't mind lynching Palmar, but I do rather lynch risknuke. With that said ##UNVOTE PALMAR ##VOTE RISK.NUKE | ||
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That was a really great breakdown of what happened, and it really gets people thinking. How did risk go from 9 votes, 1 vote from being hammered by BH, to having a mass vote switch (which I am guilty of too) to Errandorr? But then again, syllo has rightyfully pointed out that there is very little incentive for a scum to push for a vote switch as he did. And I don't know what to think about RoL's plan to be honest. It sounds good to me but I probably haven't played enough mafia to comment on optimal strategies. If we're all doing it I'll do it too. | ||
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On January 09 2012 08:03 layabout wrote: Lets assume everybody follow your plan (which they will not) can you explain the logistics of this? the point is that scum can trade a player they don't think will survive long to for all blue to reveal themselves. The angelic observers power is to help figure out blues (+demons) and getting all four blues might not be acheivable in normal play so there is potential gain there for angels.For demons they could probably waste the concealer and then know for certain who the demon hunter and sage are. If either team does this the other team can reap the benefits without the cost. How many blues do you expect to still be alive night 3 and how many scum? Bolded part is probably the best criticism of the plan. Trading one member about to get lynched anyway to reveal all power roles is not good for town I think. And even if you add the caveat that if someone like risk.nuke who seems overly scummy anyway claims blue, we should still lynch him, the fact that there can be a no flip will still generate way too much confusion IMO. | ||
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Still though, I am extremely puzzled at why Palmar sent HoD to purgatory (I'm assuming here that channeler sent syllo to purgatory, a reasonable assumption to make, as I'm sure most of us saw, and still see, syllo as town, even after the vote switch debacle). Most probably Palmar had some kind of read that HoD is some powerrole and thus tried to purgatorize him. I do not think that Palmar was purgatorizing HoD to protect a teammate; to begin with, HoD would never be a target for any night actions anyway. So I'm pretty sure HoD isn't a demon at the moment. And with that, assuming AoD targetted syllo, we can also clear syllo from not being an angel. Also, seeing how he was the very first to call out Palmar after his kite comment, I don't think he's demon either. So, syllo town, HoD not demon is what I would infer from the night actions. | ||
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On January 09 2012 18:33 Blazinghand wrote: yes you're right that was some serious analysis calling Palmar out for saying "i'm a kite" is pro town Obviously not the only part, he's been on Palmar about the entire day | ||
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Cwave We also have a seer who in my opinion has the most important power of the game, namely the identification of angels! As of such, please don't roleclaim for now as mentioned in the pre-game discussion for with 3 factions in this game, 2 factions will instantly try to kill you. Ok, weird role to choose the most important power of. Unless you're a demon. I think this is a good hypothetical question to answer. One everyone should answer! Dikrzor for me at the moment. For you Palmar & Syllo, who would you pop right now if you had to? Cwave, what do you think about risk? Do you think his plan was reasonable? What plan do you mean? Not too bad of a plan since you do tend to create good ripples in the water. And with ripples comes information. Or this one? Buddying with Palmar, possible scumbuddies? The exchange about risk.nuke and his plan sounds especially contrived. @ Risknuke. 6 voted on you at the moment and it seems 5 people haven't voted yet, including myself. Other then your defense that you "got annoyed with meta in the face", any reason i shouldn't vote you? Seems such a waste to hang someone like you for information as suggested by other people in here. While i await your asnwer im parking my vote on Erandorr. Main reason is this post which puts Erandorr along side RoL for me in terms of bad/useless. ##VOTE: Erandorr Not wanting to vote risk.nuke? I'm going to say that if we lynch risk.nuke and he flips demon, Cwave is most probably the last one. | ||
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On January 10 2012 08:57 Blazinghand wrote: Np Mr wiggs. Let's bury this guy. no your point is dumb he will always claim he thought his idea was a good idea. Let's not "bury this guy" because he derped for a post. I think he's one of the most open and active members so far in posting his reads/trying to get people lynched, and I think he's probably town, even if some of his cases are bad. | ||
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... ... I'll still rather want to lynch risk.nuke first today though. What do you think of him blazing? | ||
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Maybe I'm just tunneling risk though. I just don't want another situation like in XLVIII where we were so close to lynching annul for 3 days and end up vote-switching at the last minute every single time to someone else. | ||
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On January 10 2012 08:57 Blazinghand wrote: Np Mr wiggs. Let's bury this guy. no your point is dumb he will always claim he thought his idea was a good idea. Blazing, you tell me this post isn't misleading at all? Especially when mr wiggles was ending up talking about layabout at the last part of his post just before yours? And spaackle, what exactly of your point still stands, after it's clear that I'm not defending RoL, but rather layabout? | ||
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On January 10 2012 09:10 Blazinghand wrote: Refallen do you think there are any circumstances under which a town RoL would suggest that plan? RoL is a pretty smart guy. Yes. In the pre-game someone suggested a mass role-claim too. It isn't impossible for a town RoL to suggest the plan, and at the very least it seems that he has thought through it enough to address some common criticisms. But that's not the point. I rather stay on risk.nuke because I think he's a better lynch, I remember the last time you tried one of your hustlin' cases, though I do agree that RoL needs to do more this cycle. Just because I voted for risk.nuke does not mean I think RoL to be town. | ||
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And you're missing syllo's point, risk is MORE LIKELY to flip scum than RoL, and thus, he is a BETTER lynch. If we had 5 lynches per day we could lynch anyone who looks suspicious, but with only one, we have to choose the one that has the highest probability of making a scum flip. | ||
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k. | ||
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Also, if you're still on that hidden vote thing, I derped, I said it, I stopped doing it. | ||
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RoL 1. Lurker -----> Scummy 2. Proposed anti-town plan ---> Scummy = 100% Scum Problem with number 1; as he said, he was busy, and it was due to Responsibility Mafia being at endgame. Obviously he chose to devote more time to that. Who's to say he isn't busy with real life after that, and that he's just bluffing? And again, proposing anti-town plan does not immediately = scummy. Yes, it was bad for town. But I feel the way that he presented his plan, tried to defend it, in effect, sticking his head out in plain sight, generating a lot of attention, is not something a scum would risk. Especially if scum knew the plan was this anti-town and thus having little chance of getting actually taken up. It is much more likely that he was considering the plan in his head and just neglected to consider some aspect to it. I'm sure if he was scum his teammates would have stopped him from proposing such a plan with this obvious a gap. So what I'm essentially saying is, no, he's not 100% going to flip scum. Does he deserve a look? Yes. Can he flip scum? Possibly. But not as likely as risk.nuke flipping scum. | ||
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welp. Sorry for tunnelling you, risk. | ||
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On January 13 2012 07:23 Cwave wrote: The way you keep threading around RoL is getting ackward. Scumbuddy much? And the way you keep saying alot and ordering people around without doing anything yourself is getting very very scummy. Who do you want to lynch? Don't go into flufftexts like what you typed above. You just named 8 people in the post without really going into dept. 8! -.- Cwave, are you going to be lynching RoL tomorrow? I still really don't like you leaving your vote on RoL only to voteswitch to risk.nuke after getting called out on it. | ||
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On January 13 2012 07:30 Cwave wrote: RoL is gonna hang tomorrow. Unless Syllo or HoD goes into the purgatory again and there is no AoD hit. Honestly, I think syllo is one of my strongest (and only) town reads this game, along with blazhinghand. If he gets sent to purgatory and AoD dosen't hit , it isn't too far fetched to say that he was simply targetted again. | ||
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On January 13 2012 08:00 Cwave wrote: I don't even know where to begin with this statement......... Think about the statement more. | ||
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On January 13 2012 11:10 Zephirdd wrote: Or maybe he had the same logic as me? At least this now confirms syllo as town. MrWiggles was town as well; He couldn't possibly be Demon(see his Palmar case). We just won't know if he was a blue or not. TBH that was a poor decision by the AoD, unless he had actually found an Angel and was ready to push him. His last actions were attacking RoL. Apply Occam's Razor(The correct solution is usually the simplest one), ##Vote RoL No, AoD was almost never targeting syllo to begin with. It would have been much better to banish harbringer and see if he was the AoD or not. And I agree that RoL is the prime suspect for lynch today. Dunno why angels decided to get rid of wiggles though. | ||
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That said, what are your thoughts on the other players? Right now, both you and blazhinghand are kind of tunneling each other, and it'll be nice to hear both of your thoughts on other players. | ||
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Still, wouldn't a better course of option be to lynch Rebirth, then banish HoD to Purg today? | ||
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That being said, HoD now has 5 votes. Tyrran and Grackaroni I'm not sure of, but I'm fairly certain layabout, syllo, and Zeph are all town. Jackal, what do you think of us two hammering? I feel like a switch is unlikely at this point. | ||
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A quick glance through his filter reveals the following things - thought risk.nuke was scummy from day 1 - thought Palmar looked townie - thought Cwave looked scummy Ok, so three wrong reads off the bat. - Tried to buddy up with BH on day 2, voted RoL. Posts this So, after a bit more of BH and RoL duking it out, I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though. and unvotes RoL, and BH rightly calls him out for it. Did not vote on day 2, spends the time instead trying to make a case for tyrran, who was never getting lynched that day. And then a whole lot of nothing. Well, I certainly don't mind him being the target of a vig kill at night, to say the least. | ||
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On January 11 2012 14:02 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: @RoL See this post for the current time remaining in the day: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603#6 Anyway, I got the chance to spend some time today doing a bunch of rereading, and after doing so I will not be voting for RoL nor Risk today. Maybe I'm being dense, but I really don't see them as being leading candidates for flipping scum. If I end up having to choose between the two to avoid a no lynch, I favor lynching Risk over RoL, but I'd prefer to lynch neither. My top target remains Tyrran. His passivity and seeming lack of confidence in his reads and overall disinterest in the lynches just seems unlike most townies, and unlike how he played in my prior game with him. While I didn't want to make the following point yet to see if he would keep doing it, Dirkzor already brought it up and stated it quite well, so no reason not to restate it now: While I think that alone is scummy for any player to do, here's some examples of how Tyrran himself presented cases in his prior game: + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2011 20:07 Tyrran wrote: So you were a fervent defender of only lynching 'scummy' lurkers. And now you suddenly decide to vote for kenpachi without giving any reason Could you please detail a bit more on why you like kenpachi as a vote, other than the fact that he did not post much ? His townie claim basically does not mean anything Keeping an eyes on lurkers is good, but i would wait to the end on day 1(the last 24 hours) before voting for one of them. It seems to me that blanket voting this early on day one can only lead us divide our attention. Voting for someone whenever he says something strange without trying to pressure him more/confirm him as scum is a great way to lynch a lot of townies and seems to be a good strategy for the mafia side, but not that great for town ( obviously). Bumatlarge espescially has been trying to push the town into lynching as many people as possible. Almost each one of his post include a quote on how we should lynch every single player. Spoiler below shows some example from this filter : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=282366&user=31777 + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2011 10:36 bumatlarge wrote: Why would you FoS when you can just vote them. Don't be pansies. Realized I didn't properly vote. I doubt I will ever take my vote off of kenpachi, it's not that I don't like him, but he is not an asset to the town at the moment, or the forseeable future. Nisani has proceeded to call me dumb or scum, but that doesn't change the fact that his fluffy posts stick out, so it will stay there until he remedies it. ##Vote: Kenpachi ##Vote: Nisani201 And this Is why LAL is bad. What possible reason would cause mafia to post this instead of town. By all means keep up the detective work and checking out all the inconsistencies, but use a little sense. This definetely contradicts itself, and it could very well be an intentional lie, but even that doesn't make him scum. The bad strategy reason tht DCL brought up is actually something to go on. You are pushing your luck by trying to find lies a day into the game. Use that energy to filter a suspicious person instead and get a general vibe, and see if their future posts push you one way or the other. If there wasn't a majority lynch in play, I'd put my vote on everyone, and start taking off people who don't register as scum. That's about how many people I think should be lynched each day. On November 16 2011 02:32 bumatlarge wrote: Next person that mentions LAL is getting a vote placed on them. Seriously enough with the useless shit. We will be lynching however many scummy people we can find on the particular day. We are restricting ourselves when we don't have a clue as to what our boundaries are. Nisani has posted complete fluff and none of it shows any effort in actually heling town. I don't think the new people are brain-dead, so unless the specifically ask about something, don't use them as an excuse to post asinine shit. Oh, hi kibbibit  ##Vote Nisani201 On November 16 2011 12:37 bumatlarge wrote: We got 48 hours from now, right? This time tomorrow we need to look at the votes and see where people stand. I'm honestly surprised how few votes there are, you get as many as you want, a decent townie can take advantage of this. There is no comparing how scummy certain players are to others, you just lynch them or you don't. I guess it's still early, and I'm still fishing for reads here. Oh and surprise, the only post not advocating to lynch the entire town is to defend chaoser, the ONLY person that agreed with the 'vote for everyone' strategy, after he got pressured by WBG. And by defending him, he explains than chaoser should stop doing just what he was advocating the town to do i.e: vote for everyone that seems scummy. So you spend all your post explaining we should vote for anyone who seems scummy, and you defend chaoser that was doing exactly that by saying "he should focus his attention more". How is that not a huge contradiction ? FoS bumatlarge. On November 17 2011 06:55 Tyrran wrote: Actually, i think that's a good point. However, if kenpachi flips red, i still think we should auto lynch lanaia. We cant let someone that anti voted a scum go free. Also, if lanaia is blue, she will most likely be a priority kill for the mafia ( who now knows she isnt green), and migth not live to see day 2 anyway. Also kenpachi, you're only defense is : "LOL TOWN IS BAD". I seriously hope that you can do better than that. ##Vote Kenpachi On November 18 2011 07:20 Tyrran wrote: So within four hours, we must focus on getting another lynch. We already have 2 people a 8 votes, i suggest we focus on them. Both look scummy, both are in my likely scum list, yet Drazerk voted for Sinani206 so its unlikely that both are scum. First of all, Sinani was a big partisan of dividing our attention . Quite amusingly he used the divide and conquer analogy, where as pointed by WBG, you are suppose to divide you enemy. Meaning we town are the enemy? He Bandwagoned against Lanaia, which as i explained before, is something that is very pro-mafia. Just look at his post just before, when we already established that Lanaia should not be lynched. Both his votes are given without any explanation other than "its obvious". He is either scum or an extremely bad town. Even Drazerk looks good in comparison. I dont think town needs him. ##Vote Sinani206 On November 22 2011 07:19 Tyrran wrote: Also, while I'm at it : ##Vote: Coagulation ##Vote: Sabin010 ##Vote: xsksc You lurkers unburrow just to lynch an innocent WITHOUT any justification at all, and completely disregarding the post where I understand that prp is a potential blue ( yes i called him vigi which he denied but still) and Palmar huge post in his defence. You are either scum or really crappy town, i dont want you in the game either way. I also dislike the look of xsksc->spaackle so far. I think the only original contribution either has made was spaackle's argument of Palmar looking town...which is not the best contribution to have. xsksc's filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=149333 Spaackle takes over: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=298603&user=164534 I would appreciate it if others would take a look at bluelightz and tell me what they think. I am having trouble seeing how his posts make sense from a town perspective or a scum perspective, which is baffling to me. He seems to really like doing post by post...but then summarizing instead of analyzing. I don't think I've ever seen such a style before. @Cwave Please try to make your posts a bit more clear. I understand that english may not be your native language, but reading your filter hurts my head. Also, a good deal of your logic seems questionable, but I am not sure if that makes you scum yet. Some examples: + Show Spoiler + Palmar creates information spam, useless stuff and usefull stuff. I don't see how that observation by me makes me his buddy? I've played games with Palmar outside of the TL context and he is known for his textwalling and informationgathering skills, no matter what side he is on. Information and interaction is good for our town. Unless Palmar plays very differently outside of TL, I don't see how this can be true.Looking into Palmar his filter, he and Wiggles go off on some sort of duet where they distance eachother and vote for eachother. This logic is flimsy at best.Then they both switch and nothing is said of it and right before Palmar flips, he lists Wiggles as town. Where as before in his filter, nowhere does it come forward that he has really changed his mind or that Wiggles has him convinced that he is town. Seeing as Palmar flipped scum, im thinking MrWiggles might be one of his demonic dancing partners. -snip- In conclusion, these two were giving eachother nothing but hate right up until ~7:30 on the 8th of januari. Looks like a planned and organised move to move the votes of eachother after they created some distance of eachother on day1. He said he would claim. He didnt say he would claim VT like the states in his last post i quoted here. Wonder if that's semantics or a slip that he said he would claim VT against his scumbuddies and then thought he claimed it in here aswell. ...seriously? If he said he would claim, and he is a vt, then "I will claim" and "I will claim vt" are equivalent. Also, how could someone say they are going to claim VT later without having claimed... "Guys, I'm going to claim floridian later, but not yet!" His statement here has no logical thought in it whatsoever. You only have to fear the lynch if you are an angel..... (this quote was said in the context of him/layabout pressuring me) What the fuck? Why wouldn't demons or towns fear being lynched? In short, lynching Risk but hammering RoL is second best option. Syllo doesn't seem to agree on this, why i don't know. Unlike RoL(aka the guy who doesn't post) risk.nuke is still producing reactions and information in the progress, so RoL is a good option in my book. Hence i vote for him at this point as lynchtarget. No, i say Risk is my number one case. Calls Risk his strongest case, then votes for RoL instead...then seems to imply risk.nuke is producing useful information while RoL is not...then reiterates that Risk is his best case. What?If we can lynch him today, i will vote. Also, why did you say this: And then never vote for me? Geez that post came out longer than I expected. Ending with a vote on Tyrran, of course. ##Vote: Tyrran This was the post where you claimed you breadcrumbed sage...because like, four of the first letters in 22 sentences just happen to make up sage! I'm not convinced v.v | ||
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Vote: RebirthOfLeGenD | ||
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Meh, so concealer used his power. Good thing we didn't lynch HoD. I think DH should attack Spaackle tonight. | ||
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On January 15 2012 19:38 syllogism wrote: HoD: I don't know why you bother arguing about your role as if you aren't the AoD, you will be cleared by the day post. You keep making excuses for your activity and still find yourself unable to call anyone scum. Are you going to be busy tonight? Can we expect you to make some real cases in which you actually reach a conclusion? You know something like this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=12135649 Syllo do you agree that even if AoD kills tonight, HoD is still suspicious as hell? Though I might want to lynch Tyrran/Spaackle tomorrow instead. | ||
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Right now, I find many people suspicious, and it's kind of frustrating for me. Spaackle/Bluelightz/Dirkzor/Tyrran seem to me to be all good targets for a lynch or a night hit. I'll focus on Dirkzor for this post though. -> Goes ballistic at syllo after the Erandorr switch I'm looking through Cwave's filter. He looks fishy. Not only for saying he thinks i'm scum several times with the only reasoning is a weak ass "case" about my first post and because It found a difference in the OP and Zbot vote count post. But more so because he havent said anything else the entire first day. He have spend the entire day 1 pointing out the obvious: RoL arent posting, Jackal have done nothing but hate palmar (But i must admit i found his post on Jackal amusing =)) He haven't taken a stance on anything and voted Erandorr with the reason that he is lurking. I'll keep an eye on him... Cwave was town, but whatever, this dosen't say much, many people thought Cwave was scummy. See, all i have is your word for it. But i guess we can lynch him and if he flips town we lynch you... This is a really scummy statement to make. Hokay. Finally something i can actually respond to. Why would I defend palmar if we are on the same team? Especially when several people already want to lynch him. The chance for palmar to get lynched are relativly high as I see it, so if he flips scum and i defended him I could just aswell have voted to lynch myself. I'm very unsure about palmar at the moment and i have yet to see a case which is not "This is not Town palmar". Besides that there aren't really anything against him. I don't know the meta on you guys so i have no clue. Thats why i asked syllo a few times about his opinion on palmar. What does strike me about palmar is that he shifted gear mid day 1. He posted a lot more and became more agressive after being called out on not doing exactly that. The case wiggles made kinda fell a part because wiggles lied (intentionally or not, that was one of the few parts that were not meta). Which leaves me with a null read on palmar. And i don't see how my argument against syllo is stupid. If he knows him aswell as he saids then there are 2 possibilities if Palmar flip town: 1) Syllo don't know him as well as he thought 2) Syllo lied and he is scum. Tries to defend Palmar, and yet adds a disclaimer that he wouldn't defend Palmar if they were on the same scum team. What townie does that? I think RoL is a stupid lynch. I think it was syllo who wrote that you have to consider why a person suggest a plan. I honestly believe that RoL think it is a good plan and that is why he is fighting for it so much. The plan is well thought out and well delivered. RoL seems to think the blues are dispossable for 4 confirmed townies leaving us with a 5/13 scum scenario instead of 5/17. I disagree and would rather go 5/17 with blue support. From this The way I see it is that HoD and RoL is both a lynch i can support. To this, when it is clear that everyone was hopping on the RoL/HoD bandwagon. Yup, I think he might be RoL's teammate. | ||
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To those saying RoL was the channeler, he wasn't. The key thing that disproves this is his vanilla townie claim when he was proposing his plan, which, if he was channeler, he would never do. So obviously, this leaves the channeler to be Mr Wiggles. RoL was an angel. With that said, right now, HoD is probably sage. Which means layabout should be our lynch target today, because why the hell would demons twist him? That is, of course, unless there is a counterclaim by someone on sage, but right now, we should lynch layabout. The problem with this is layabout's soft claim that he was corrupted, and this is why I'm not 100% certain of lynching layabout right now. I believe the best course of option is, if layabout isn't corrupted townie, for the real corrupted townie to claim now. | ||
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On January 14 2012 08:12 layabout wrote: Current Vote Count: + Show Spoiler + On December 28 2011 15:42 ZBot wrote: Vote count for the Day 3 Lynch. With 13 alive, 7 votes are required to lynch. Current votes: HarbingerOfDoom (3): Tyrran, syllogism, layabout RebirthOfLeGenD (2): Grackaroni, Spaackle (1): Zephirdd Bluelightz (1): Jackal58 Blazinghand (1): RebirthOfLeGenD The Day 3 deadline is at January 15 2012 10:00 KST. (That's approximately 1 day, 1:48:45 from now.) Vote HarbingerOfDoom Votes first, apparently, then quotes in the thread, where in previous days he's always voting through his posts. if that is all you have to say then vote Grackaroni Conclusion: risk.nuke's play does not math the town risk.nuke you may have come to know and love. He was willing to offer thoughts at the start when doing so was not useful and when it was easy for scum to do so. He has made excuses and promised content. He has yet to deliver that content. He has not been aggressive in calling people out as he has previuosly and has criticised syllogism for calling him out. He avoided has provided a very fluffy answer to HoD's question. He has contradicted his own declarations of good town play. He has avoided making any serious contributions now that we actuaaly have to decide who we are lynching. He has not made an effort to defend himself, but has called everybody voting for him scum. Vote risk.nuke ^^ This is how he voted on previous days On January 14 2012 22:52 layabout wrote: I will vote just before 8:00 KST. You will know why. ^ Then he says this. And misses the lynch. Gives the reason for this as "not wanting to ruin town atmosphere" sounds like a soft claim to me. So what I want to know is, if he really was the corrupted townie or if there is someone else out there. Do you not agree that if he wasn't the corrupted townie, and HoD claiming he was twisted, that demons would hardly have reason to be twisting layabout? Do you not agree, that wiggles was much more likely to be the fucking channeler than fucking RoL? And if that's the case, would HoD's sage claim not gain some credibility, seeing as there is no counterclaim? What the fuck is this? Yes, RoL was probably a fucking angel. Not the AoD obviously, and since there's a pretty damn good chance the acolyte is dead I rather the ctownie claim now so we have a clear target in the form of layabout. That's what I think. But before that, we can ask ourselves first if demons have any motivation to twist layabout if he wasn't a demon. I'll ask that to you, what do you think? | ||
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Well, Grackaroni might very well be the last demon, I think. I want to take a look at Tyrran and maybe Dirkzor for angels. | ||
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[quote]Your study of the powers of light has enabled you to sense and counter demonic power. Each night, you may target a player to illuminate. You will receive "Demon" or "Not Demon" as a result, and your target will also be cleansed of corruption. You are immune to corruption. You win with the town.][/quote] I don't think he's town with dark powers. | ||
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But obviously, there is a 50% chance that RoL was the acolyte. I need to read syllo's filter | ||
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...I find it weird he pointed that out again though. Do you think he's a demon? | ||
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And sorry, watching GSL, will be back soon. | ||
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What do you think? | ||
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So syllo is a VT. Channeler is dead. So we have the following roles now Seer - outed, HoD, only read is Grackaroni as not demon though. Demon Hunter - outing him does nothing for town, since it was clear who his targets were (Palmar/Cwave/Spaackle) Sage - Potentially 3 angel reads, hopefully we have a live angel read among them Corrupted townie - Outed, blazinghand, has one non-dark read for us to use. If sage has 1 angel read and 2 other non-angel reads, with Blazinghand's non-dark read and HoD's Grackaroni non-demon read, as well as an extra read during this night cycle (assuming angels kill sage here, sounds like the most reasonable thing to do), we can lynch an angel tonight, have the DH hit layabout, and come out in a decent positon on day 5. So yes, I think the sage should claim. Not the DH though. Now, back to old fashioned scumhunting instead of talking about the setup. blazinghand, what do you think of Dirkzor as our lynch target today? I made a small case on him during night 3. | ||
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On January 16 2012 22:36 Jackal58 wrote: Just got to work and getting caught up. Layabout - Wtf is up with your vote. BH is so freaking town it's not even funny. Your vote hits me as a PSA from scum screaming "here I am" If RoL was an Angel they might. If RoL was Channeler and there are still 3 Angels remaining I wouldn't count on it. I'm gonna call it now. Dirkzor and Layabout are the Demons. Bluelightz is an Angel. I have no clue yet as to who the remaining one or two are. I actually think Dirkzor is an angel, and Layabout is a demon. No idea about bluelightz. Do you agree that we need to lynch an angel today? Also, following that, do you think sage should claim today? | ||
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And Grack, that's a good point. Syllo wouldn't have had a chance to peek. So we have a real high chance of not having any DT peeks this game, except for HoD's Grack not demon peek. What a retarded situation. Right, I'm going to bed. I'll like to hear thoughts on lynching Grackaroni. | ||
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HoD's sage claim has to stand because obviously, no one has counterclaimed it. And wiggles was channeled by virtue of te fact that RoL fake-claimed channeler because there was no way RoL was town. No way. So RoL is an angel, either acolyte or observer, because he knew that channeler was dead and he could try fake-claiming that role. Jackal, you said you were confused by the flips. Does the above sound logical to you? If so, does your lynch target still stay as bluelightz? | ||
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Also layabout if you think I'm an angel you're also scum/idiot | ||
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On January 17 2012 19:05 Dirkzor wrote: BH did you read my peice on why i Believe RoL's claim instead of HoD's? Refallen is looking scummy to me lately. If you look at his activity level it have been kinda low the entire game. But these last few days he have been VERY active. He haven't had a correct read yet and is as of late constantly trying to get me lynched. Since i know I'm town i find that scummy. He continue to state that HoD is the sage as if it is a fact. It is NOT. He is pushing all the easy targets: Myself, Tyrran and Bluelightz. He say Layabout is demon because Lay want to lynch HoD (as angel = Refallen's buddy) ...Tell me how we're still considering HoD's sage claim as not confirmed right now? Tell me in what possible situation would that be true? The only way for sage claim to be not true is for our own sage to be fucking idiotic and not counterclaiming. And yes, I have been very active because for the first time in a while we haven't have had a clear lynch target where everyone was getting behind with, and syllo who was leading town has also died, so obviously we need to step up. You are not an easy target, if I was scum I would much rather push Tyrran and Bluelightz. But I have a real read that you are scum, and I hope people can see that. I know Jackal was saying how he thought you were scum earlier in the game. Jackal, what do you think of Dirkzor now? | ||
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Another reason why I think you're scum is because no townie can actually be thinking RoL is town here. | ||
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Anyhow, I'll be going to bed soon. I'll wake up earlier (3 hours or so before deadline hopefully) so hopefully by that time we have a clear lynch on Dirkzor/Bluelightz/Tyrran where I can just hammer. Peace. | ||
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You're the one misleading people by still dwelling on HoD claim. Makes no sense. Yes, we cannot be 100% sure but it is waaaaaaaaaay highly super tiltingly likelier that the sage claim is true than him being an angel. Your case on me is, "oh, BUT WE CAN'T BE 100% SURE THAT THIS GUY IS TOWN SO REFALLEN IS SCUM." What a fucking bullshit case. Who's the one trying to mislead people here? I never openly admit to not putting in effort. In fact, I said the opposite; I do care about the game, despite the fact that I'm not spamming as much as some other people. I just don't see a need to post huge amounts of cases or spam many one-liners unless I have to. If you're town, you're an idiot, and you shouldn't sign up for games. But you're not town so that's ok. I hope the DH kills you tonight. | ||
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On January 17 2012 23:19 Dirkzor wrote: Wrong. After RoL claimed VT he could later have claimed channeler without it looking suspicious. As he had already claimed VT he could wait for everyone else to claim. The channeler would be missing and he could then claim channeler and most would believe him because no one else claimed channeler. If someone else claimed channeler before him he could counter-claim and town would lynch RoL (and get channeler), but after that we would lycnh the person who claimed channeler as he was lying. I'm agreeing more and more with Layabout. It appears as Refallen and HoD are buddy-ing up. They are getting their story straight as they say. Now the big question is: Which one is the AoD? HoD would be the obvious choice. Unless AoD hit Syllo first night which I don't think is unlikely. I want to lynch Refallen or HoD as of now. Funny, I find you and layabout to be buddying up much more strongly. Which kind of sucks, because I thought you were an angel. Now I'm thinking you might be a demon. | ||
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How did there suddenly form a wagon on me? I am very fine with lynching bluelivhtz and to me it seems increasingly clear that he's an angel. | ||
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On January 18 2012 08:10 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Because angels want the sage alive to help against the demons? If Angels lynch you today, they can simply use the demon hunter to help them win, especially when the DH claims. Demons do not have a majority vote block by then so Angels can team up with the DH to get 2 demons at the following night. | ||
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God I hate how I don't live in the US/UK and I don't have to rush through deadlines every time. | ||
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We have an hour more lets not rush and shep. | ||
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##vote tyrran | ||
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Guess I know nothing about this game | ||
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Aw, jackal was the observer, guess I can't go for my true love anymore =( | ||
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Tyrran and bluelights are remaining angel/scum I think. (I was also really trying for true love win lolol... but I guess a town win is ok too) | ||
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Even if today ends up a no lynch, I can attack Tyrran tonight and same thing happens the next day. So town wins? | ||
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On January 19 2012 10:44 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: @Refallen But if they don't die, you have found an angel, and we have a pool of known townies (you, me, blazinghand) so removing the non-confirmed town doesn't seem like that big of a downside. But isn't my power at this point the same as a day-lynch, except that if I hit an angel we will lynch him the following day? | ||
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I wish the cycle would move faster. I still don't want to attack anyone this night, but I will if everyone wants me to. That said, we can lynch bluelightz first and if he doesn't flip angel I'll be very surprised. | ||
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On January 20 2012 03:52 HarbingerOfDoom wrote: Possibly something of note here? Do we think he'd have the presence of mind to soft-bus a teammate while drunk? Not terribly relevant, but just thought I would highlight this: Refallen too good~ Didn't trust my read and still went with hitting cwave and spaackle though =( | ||
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Refallen
452 Posts
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Refallen
452 Posts
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Refallen
452 Posts
And wow, good thing I shot Palmar night one then. | ||
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Refallen
452 Posts
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Refallen
452 Posts
My shots were bad. This was the first time I'm playing as any vig role. Is there any tips or rule of thumbs I should know for vig shots? Next, I felt like the demons really outted themselves by continuing to push HoD after he was pretty much nigh confirmed sage. I pointed this out and suddenly Tyrran and layabout (and Zeph and Dirk, wtf?) were on me, which made me think that these 4 were scum. I don't know how Zeph/Dirk thought that HoD was still unconfirmed as the sage. | ||
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