On January 08 2012 11:07 Spaackle wrote:So, the experienced player obviously know how to play town (duh, they're experienced). They know how to be as helpful to the town as possible. Taking from Ver's guide(?) to town play:
Link here (clicky)+ Show Spoiler +There are three main goals for the town on day 1 in a standard game:
1) Get useful information (often achieved via point 2)
2) Create an ideal atmosphere (will go over this in detail in town guide)
3) Figure out your plans/direction
The obvious way to analyze the situation would be to take the current players in suspicion and see if they are trying to achieve the above goals.:
risk.nuke: Filter (clicky)1) Get Information -- I hate to make a meta argument, but I feel like it's necessary here. When I played with risk in Election, he spent much of Day 1 jabbing at other players and trying to squeeze info out of them. I feel like he isn't doing this so much now. Many of his posts have been reactions to the poking of others, and he's offered little analysis of his own. His play in this regard doesn't look very towney to me.
2) Create an atmosphere -- This goal is linked with the previous one. The best atmosphere for town is one where they can get as much information as possible. I feel like risk is falling short here too. He hasn't been offering many points for discussion, and his reactionary posting has most other townies snapping at him.
3) Figure out plans -- This is a tough one. There really haven't been any plans put forth by anyone, just some bandwagons and a lot of finger pointing. risk has been doing just about as much of this as everyone else.
Risk's play is looking a bit
scummy to me. He hasn't been offering much solid analysis, and he fans the flames of the arguments in the thread. We definitely need to pressure him some more tomorrow.
More coming soon!
here spaackle ADDS to the criticism against risk. nuke by seeing how his play fits the town objectives for day1 outlined in Ver's guide.
He judges him based upon a measure of what general town goals are and how risk.nuke was not playing towards them.
That is one of the least bullcrap evaluations in the entire thread.
He then does the same for Palmar.
He gets the alignments wrong on both acoounts.
But his reasoning is coherent.
On January 09 2012 05:29 Spaackle wrote:@RofL While I agree that we need a plan for day 2, yours is not the one I would go with. Mass claiming like that will only paint a target on our blues for the scumteams. We'll lose our blue powers so fast that we'll get almost no use out of them, and where will we be then?
@risk
Show nested quote +On January 09 2012 04:50 risk.nuke wrote:On January 09 2012 04:32 syllogism wrote:On January 09 2012 04:18 Dirkzor wrote:On January 09 2012 04:06 syllogism wrote:On January 09 2012 04:01 Palmar wrote:
yeah, this needs to be done now, or not. I'd rather go with not.
This is palmar scum claiming. He has been trolling for a while now but this is as close at is gets
If I had written that would you take that as scum claiming?
No, but you aren't a player who I talk extensively about the game, in and out of the game. It's extremely unlikely that he would say that as town and I'm pretty sure that when he wrote that he knew very well how it would look like to me; he has by this point realized that there is little he can do to avoid being lynched so might as well have some fun.
Imo a town Palmar would respond to that with a pretty huge post declaring why the plan is dumb alternativly if he approved of the plan he would write additional thoughts or/and reason further why it is a good plan.
I thought you hated meta arguments?
Calls out a contradiction.
On January 09 2012 05:51 Spaackle wrote:
@Jackal Hypothetically, let's say I'm a complete noob and I don't know how to play this game. Explain to me: why is it obvious? Could you please give a little bit more reasoning, even if it is things that others have already pointed out?
Prods Jackal for reasoning
On January 10 2012 13:02 Spaackle wrote:
I'm with you on this one, BH. At first I thought that the RoL plan was merely just an ill-thought out plan, but after your and Mr Wiggles' arguments against it, now I see that the RoL plan isn't just bad, but that it seems to be intentionally anti-town. I want to see a defense from RoL, but until then:
##vote RebirthOfLegend
He decides to vote for RoL after reading the BS from BH.
He states that he wants to see RoL defence and will leave the vote until then.
Presumably he will look at the defence RoL makes and decide whether or not the case holds weight.
On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote:
So, after a bit more of BH and RoL duking it out, I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though.
Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke
Decides that RoL effort in defending the plan makes his suggesting of the plan not a scummy thing to do.
Reverts to old read: Null
On January 11 2012 14:47 Spaackle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 14:40 Blazinghand wrote:On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote:
So, after a bit more of BH and RoL duking it out, I've decided to Unvote RoL for now. RoL has spent a long time and a lot of effort defending it, and a scum Probably would have dropped it long ago. RoL is still pretty null to me, though.
Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke
What? Are you listening to yourself?
If he were scum he'd cling to it since it's the only thing he's done all game besides lurk and fail to vote Erandorr properly. If he were town, he'd believe in his plan so he'd defend it anyways.
RoL of any alignment will defend his plan. RoL isn't null, he's anti-useful and I have no idea why you'd unvote him at this time.
Give me some time to read the thread. I'm inviting because I think RoL may not be the best lynch right now, and I'm going through the filters of the other main suspects. If I think that they are better lynches, I'll vote them, and if they're not, my vote comes back to RoL. Even if I don't vote him, I still think he'd be a good target for our Demon Hunter.
Now back to reading.
Says that he will unvote because he thinks a RoL lynch may not be the best one.
Says he will vote him IF after he fliters the other subjects he decide that RoL is the best lynch.
Thinks he might be a good target for a demon hunter.
Whilst you might then conclude that Null is probably not his exactly read, you should be able to see how these post fit together and are consistent with him re-evaluating his thoughts as new information arises.
On January 11 2012 15:51 Spaackle wrote:So, after reading through Tyrran's thread, he's starring to look pretty scummy to me. He's posted much less than most others in this game, and his posts are long and full of fluff. He seems to spend a lot of time trying to tell other players how to play when he could be giving analysis or answering questions. He also contradicts himself a few times.
Posts that really stand out to me:
+ Show Spoiler +What makes you think that angels will want to target the blues ? They are pretty much immune to blues, appart from the seer which will be desintegrated by the Angel of Death if he ever claim ( or i guess you could banish him, but then he would be pretty useless). So angel will just randomly shoot into townies, who knows, they migth even get a lucky shot on a demon, they migth also kill townies with dark power if they are not banished.
Secondly you suppose that Demons are going to want to use their banish defensively. If they want to do this, then Demons will just banish the Demon Hunter ( which will NEVER EVER be targeted by angels, because he basically works for them). If they have corrupted someone, they can also banish the sage, and just enjoy they extra vote ! They are not going to banish someone in order to 'protect' him.
Your plan gives HUGE information to both scum faction, and town actually gains very little from it. I dont like it. I think it favors Demons way too much ( because they can protect themself way more easely using their power knowing who the blues are), it also helps angels a bit ( they can kill the seer, they do not risk killing the demon hunter by mistake). But town is definitively the big loser in your plan.
And
Okay, i misread and missed the color only claim part. My bad, gotta go back some new googles.
Your plan is therefore much better than i initially thougth. I still have an issue with how you are going to deal with corruption. Angels are not the only one that need to prevent a voting block from forming, we need to prevent it too. On one hand you say that corrupted town should claim, but on the other hand you also advise multiple claim. What does town gain form multiple corruption claim ? While i agree that this migth confuse scum, If the angels are in doubt on how to get rid of corrupted townies, how are we going to know how to deal with it ?
These posts are a glaring contradictions to each other. Tyrran points out several large flaws in RoL's plan. However, when RoL clears up the color claim issue, suddenly these flaws aren't so bad anymore. To me this represents a bit of wishy-washiness on Tyrran's part. He's very opposed to RoL's plan one minute, then thinks it's not too bad the next. There's Also this bit:
Show nested quote +Angels are not the only one that need to prevent a voting block from forming, we need to prevent it too.
By we, does Tyrran mean town? Or is there some special we only him and RoL know about?
This post caught my eye too:
Show nested quote +Well I dont see how this could have gone better :D. One demon dead ( GJ DemonHunter or Angel Acolyte, whoever got him) and no unrevealed death. Perfect N1 for town. Here are some initial thought about what happened N1 :
On January 09 2012 12:14 HarbingerOfDoom wrote:
I agree that it was most likely Palmar that sent me to purgatory, as I can't see any town player choosing to protect me over syllo, and I can't see town trying to use it for the roleblock on me instead of protecting someone. What I am more confused about is why he would do that.
Agreed. Syllo was one of the most valuable town assets day 1, channeler sending him to purgatory was the best and obvious move. Palmar maybe thougth you were AoD, and/or DemonHunter. He also maybe tried to protect you.
The fact that there were no ???? flip leaves us with 4 probability:
AoD targeted Syllo. This is unlikely. It was clear in the thread that the banish was going to be used defensively, and Syllogism was one of the most obvious target. I' not sure why angels would target him other than them being bad.
AoD targeted HarbingerOfDoom. This is a possibility. I'm not sure why they would choose him over BH, Wiggles, layabout tho
Syllo is the AoD. This is unlikely, he has been very active for town during day 1. Yet, we cannot ignore this possibility. I dont want him lynched today, but if he is banished again N2, and once again the AoD do not kill, then we will have to consider him as a lynch.
HoD is the AoD. This is a possibility too, but i'm not sure about it. I'll try to find some time to read his filter today.
Questions to discuss day 2 :
What do you guys think of Syllo and HoD ? Are they summy too you. Do you think they were liekly target for the AoD?
With no ???? flip, RoL plan could still be put into motion. What do you think about it?
this is one of theposts that I really think paints Tyrran as a scum. He starts by congratulating the DH for the kill, then starts listing possibilities. His possibilities state what could have happened, but Tyrran doesnt really ever state what he thinks happened. Just "well maybe this or that." This noncommittal post also really highlights just how wishy-washy Tyrran has been this whole game.
Tyrran, wha do you have to say for yourself?
If he is to be believed then Spaackel jsut finished reading the thread of the main suspects.
He presents things Tyrran have done, explain why he finds them scummy and asks for answers to his points. What is wrong with this?
On January 12 2012 02:55 Spaackle wrote:
@Zeph I unvoted RoL because I thought there might be a better lynch than him. I posted my reads on Tyrran last night, and was going to do the same for risk today, but you guys hammered the lunch during my morning classes. I Would have voted risk, but I wanted to do a thorough analysis of his posts before I put the last nail in his coffin. You guys beat me to the punch.
The fact that risk flipped town is problematic. It brings us no closer to finding the rest of the scum. However, risk is still the best option for yesterday, IMO.
Tonight, DH should hit either Tyrran or RoL.
Explains his unvoting to zeph.
Says that risk was the best lynch.
He hadn't analysed risk on day 2 but he did write:
On January 11 2012 14:31 Spaackle wrote:
Give me a bit more time to finish catching up on the thread and reading some filter, and I'll have an analysis for both Tyrran and risk.nuke
And the day was cut short. He also found risk scummy when he joined late in day1.
These actions all seem fine.
On January 13 2012 08:23 Spaackle wrote:
I've been asked to do some reads, so here goes:
Tyrran: I've already made an analysis on him see that for my main reasoning. I think he looks pretty scummy, even though he's started posting a bit more as of late.
RoL: he's basically invisible for the first day, then during night one he comes up with a plan to mass claim. His plan is torn to shreds by everyone else while he quietly slips back into the shadows, reemerging only to defend his plan but not to do much of anything else. His lurkiness combined with his lack of contribution makes me think that he is a scum. Between him and Tyrran, I'd probably lynch RoL first.
Grack and cwave look a little scummy to me, seeing as they've both lurked a bit and not posted too much of actual value. However, there's much bigger fish to fry than them.
He then makes this post and then you and BH call him scummy.
EPT
