EPTPurgatory Mafia - Page 30
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 22 2012 02:57 layabout wrote: I think that most of the criticisms were weak and that many people showed that they did not fully understand the plan. I think that RoL's responses were actually much stronger than the criticisms. I think that town players, are entirely capable of coming up with or pushing plans that are bad for town. I think that we could not have made a reliable judgement concerning how good/bad RoL thought his plan was for town, since he was out-arguing his critics and trying to push the plan to convince us to follow it (this would make sense for a player of either alignment) Since we could not reliably judge whether or not he was trying to manipulate or help us i think that we could not use his plan as the basis for calling him scum. You're leaving out the part where his plan is actually bad for town, and lets the angels win. Yes, people had poorly thought out criticisms of the plan. Yes, RoL defended his plan skillfully. Yes, it's possible he was a terrible townie who wrote a 3,000 word plan without thinking through the consequences of it. But it was still a bad plan, and he was still pushing it. Why would you push a bad plan? Because you are scum. So I tunneled him for a week. EDIT: Look, I had a clear read on RoL. I believed like 99% that he was scum. How, in that circumstance, am I NOT going to push him, and push him hard? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 22 2012 03:22 layabout wrote: BH you have yet again completely missed the point i am making i blame you for this: I don't remember the context for that quotation. I'm not sure what the point is, but RoL thought he could get away with suggesting an anti-town plan, and I pushed him, and he got lynched. Like, why would he push that plan? what motivation could he have? I can't think of a solid motivation except "I dont' want town to win" so clearly he was scum. EDIT: Hey, and it turned out he WAS scum! How about that! | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
In any case, it seems Wiggle-Dawg agreed with me as well, on RoL :D I'll go take a look at your post. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 11 2012 02:43 layabout wrote: If we want to analyse the plan we need to do the following: We need to look a the player and look at what he is saying. We need to make a judgements on:
we can also look at possible motivations for suggesting the plan, and how these might change with different alignments etc... We have to look at a lot of different things in order to decide upon whether his plan makes him more likely to be scum. jumping from to is logically unsound. What is more important is whether RoL beleived it was anti-town when he suggested it (if he didn't then it is null). If you think he did believe it was anti-town we then have to look at his actions more closely to find evidence to support that ideas and ways in which RoL tries to push an anti-town plan. The judgements that i have made about his plan (i haven't shared them) have lead me to the conclusion that is is not scummy. +i might post about risk later or tomorrow if i feel like it I think you and I scumhunt in entirely different ways. You take a look at all this stuff like What does the player suggesting the plan think the consequences of suggesting or following the plan will be How they want us to perceive their plan How they tell us it will work in practice Here's what I look at: Why would he suggest whatever plan he's suggesting? What's his motivation? I determined that there's no reason he'd suggest that plan besides "being scum" I don't care how he presented it or whatever, this is what I saw RoL do:
I see no reason to do this unless you are scum. All I care about are the motivations for why someone would do something. I somewhat care what people say, but the real tell is WHY they say it. Does his play make sense if he's town? does it make sense if he's scum? etc. I think this is the most crucial part of scum-hunting. I also think it's a TOTALLY reasonable step in logic from "all he does is lurk and do anti-town stuff" to "##Vote: RebirthofLegend" And I think that although I am a stubborn guy, my case was sound. EDIT: On January 22 2012 03:32 layabout wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13091508 i am giving up. your stubbornness is unfathomable Edit: It doesn't even matter what his alignment is/was Edit: all this editing is so fun, maybe i should go back and put more spoilers into my posts Are you giving up, or just closing your mind to another way of thinking? Who is the stubborn one here, the one who is willing to have a discussion, or the one who walks away from it? It DOES matter what his alignment is/was. It DOES matter, because the purpose of scumhunting isn't to follow some sort of "scumhunting etiquette", or to line up with whatever you personally think scumhunting should be-- the purpose of scumhunting is to catch scum. I daresay that my case on RoL was effective in that regard. If nothing else, it made him stop lurking and incriminate himself in the eyes of the town. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Also, I think my RoL case was pretty good. It was good enough to get him lynched. EDIT: Also, we wouldn't have had mislynches on you and Erandorr if either of you did anything useful all game. I can honestly say I would lynch Erandorr again in the same circumstances, gladly and without remorse. If someone is gonna lurk and be unhelpful, I will lynch them Day 1 every time. I will do this until there are no lurkers left in TL Mafia. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 22 2012 04:16 risk.nuke wrote: Yeah, my game wasn't flawless either. I was tired, got tunneled, felt demotivated, and I'm generally a bad scumhunter day 1. Maybe it was awefull. But I was a bad lynch. For me to accept that I wasn't is to accept that letting people vote without reasoning is a good idea. But you see, that's the point! YOU WERE A BAD LYNCH. You totes could have defended yourself, in that case. If you were really a bad lynch, I don't see how you, being A) innocent and B) a bad lynch were gonna get lynched. I think that if you had defended yourself adequately and made a solid case on someone else you'd have been fine. You SHOULD have been fine. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Like, if there's nothing to defend yourself against, just make a REAL CASE and people will be all "hey this is actually a good case" and get on that, right? If there was really no legitimate case against you, wouldn't offering forward a legitimate case totally take the pressure off you? or am I missing something here. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 10 2012 21:41 risk.nuke wrote: Syllogism, Tyrran so far hasn't played how I expected him to. His posts seem alot like he is trying to match his steamship meta but it just doesn't have the same essence. I don't think I'm willing to lynch him just yet. But that could change, I'm not going to say I can't be talked into lynching him so he can just lurk the entire day safely. HoD, I might be alittle biased to the fact that this is one of the few people who have defended me. On the other hand if he we keep going by the assumption that the demons put him in purgatory which I absolutely think is what happend the motive could either have been to protect one of their own or framing someone else to make it look like they were. There are a few things that makes HoD a viable lynch. There is a chance he is the AoD, and there is a chance he is a demon. I don't like how he speculates alot about scum actions. In fairness it makes sense that he should do this more then otherssince he was singled out by scumactions but I still think a scum is inclined to do so. This is like the strongest case you make when you're under attack, but this is just a bunch of waffling. Where's your scumhunting? Other than this you make bad attempts to defend yourself, accuse people of being bad tunneling angels, generally deride fellow members of the town, etc. Is that really an effective way to play? Where are your quotes of people showing inconsistency or scummy play? Where are your attempts at contributing to the town? There aren't any. At all. Read your own filter and pretend it's someone else and ask yourself "was this guy helping the town?" | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
What motivation could he have for lurking for 72 hours then suggesting a pro-scum plan? Why, he 's scum of course :D | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 22 2012 08:37 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On this issue this is all I am going to say. If I tell you that the center of the earth is filled with tiny gnomes who ride bicycles that cause the earth to revolve around the sun, and then at the end of the game I find out that the earth really does revolve around the sun, does my conclusion being correct automatically mean my premise was correct? Do you seriously believe lurking for the first 72 hours is town behavior? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On January 22 2012 09:11 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Regardless of my alignment, that would have happened since I was busy. It means nothing. If you were town, it would have been terrible play! 72 hours of not helping! There's no reason you'd do that as scum. Your posts weren't even trying to help. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
ROFL yeah well it's not how long your filter is, it's how you use it. Actually at the time he died, my filter was only 18 pages long IIRC. So maybe he only read my filter, and that was 15-20 pages of the game :D | ||
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