Purgatory Mafia - Page 25

On January 05 2012 07:05 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Hey guys, I was sick last night, so I didn't bother posting. I took some Dristan and went to bed and feel better now, though, so let's get started. First thing's first, I want to address a couple of posts that I saw as non-optimal play, and something we should be aware of.

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Just so you know, you should never believe an investigative claim because someone bread-crumbed it. There's no reason to believe it because of bread-crumbs, because there's no proof that they actually did what they bread-crumbed. Breadcrumbs are only useful when a player flips, because you know what role they actually are, and then you know that any breadcrumbs are likely to be sound. If you want a recent example of breadcrumbs killing the town, go read Mini Mafia X, where Wherebugsgo wrote jk three times in a post then claimed jailkeeper, and town believed him.

The only person I think can legitimately breadcrumb and use that to support their claim in this game is the demonhunter, and only if they end up killing a complete innocent, or else it could be the acolyte. Also keep in mind that crumbs should be made before the corresponding day-post.

On January 05 2012 03:02 Blazinghand wrote:
Don't go lynching anyone but Bluelightz if you think he's a legit valid scum. It doesn't matter whether he's an angel or a demon or what. In fact, given that he was staggeringly bad in Student mafia (though he WAS a replacement) it might be good to kill him just because even if he is town he could be useless.

I think we should lynch whoever is the scummiest. If Bluelightz feels scummy to you, put together a case on him and cast your vote like a man. If you think he's probably scummy, and that he'll contribute poorly (as he did in Student mafia), put your money where your mouth is. I can respect that.

This is bad. Killing a useless townie is almost never worth it. A useless townie is still a townie, and they still provide us with a vote and count towards our win condition. It's always better to lynch scum, not lynch someone because he could be scum but it doesn't matter anyways because if he's town he's useless.

In fact, I was leaning town on you at the beginning of the game, but now I think I'm going to have to re-evaluate that somewhat after your recent "case" on Bluelightz. Being bad doesn't make someone scum, so it seems weird that you'd try to attack him for being bad. There's been a lot of talk in the thread so far (though granted, most of it is based on mechanics), so who do you think is scummy? You don't make a case for why bluelightz is scum, just for why he hasn't done anything productive yet.

Regarding Lynch all Lurkers:

If you want to pursue this, you need to make the distinction between lurkers and inactives. Someone who hasn't posted all day cycles is not a lurker. They are an inactive. A lurker is someone who comes in, makes a useless post to appease everyone, and then leaves again, continuing this as necessary to keep pressure off themselves. So, even if you want to lynch all lurkers, you still have to put a modicum of effort into it, to try to figure out who's actually trying to lurk or not. Scum are very likely to be actively lurking if they're lurking. That is, they are reading the thread, and keeping up with new posts and developments while discussing with their scumbuddies, but aren't actually posting in the thread. These are sometimes easy to find, because when pressured, they'll show up nearly immediately to defend themselves before going back to lurking. So, for anyone who wants to lynch all lurkers, are you ready to make the distinction between lurking and being inactive? Someone already brought this up somewhat, when they asked what keeps scum from just staying slightly more active than the most inactive townie, and this is where the distinction comes in. Think about it.

Regarding set-up:

In this game, it feels like the town roles can be used in very versatile ways that people aren't really touching on. For example, the demon-hunter is a vigi for demons, but they can also serve as a detective for angels. There is nothing that protects from attacks besides going to purgatory, so if the demonhunter's target lives without going to purgatory, then they're an angel.

Same thing with the sage. Many people are focusing on the cleansing aspect of the role, but not on the investigative powers. This ties in with the corrupted players as well. While the demons want to corrupt as many townspeople as they can, this also makes it more dangerous for them, as they essentially introduce demon detectives into the game.

What I think a decent strategy would be, for as long as the sage remains alive, is to have corrupted players claim the day after being corrupted, along with their result. This means that as long as we keep the sage alive, the number of corrupted players will always remain at, or below, 1. Obviously, we shouldn't set this in stone, as we should wait until day 3 and see if the sage is still alive, along with the acolyte. From my understanding, demons can't corrupt until night 2, which means that day 3 is the earliest that we have to worry about the votes in the lynch. This means that as town, we should try to play as aggressively as we can on the first two days, when there will be the least confusion and complexity. Ideally, we will be able to kill some sort of angel, and optimally the concealer (This forces the demons to choose between corrupting or using their actions, and gets rid of a powerful anti-town ability).

We also have to keep in mind that in this game, until one faction is eliminated completely, no one can be confirmed innocent. If it comes to light that you aren't a demon, or aren't an angel, and try to use that as proof that you are town, I'll be mad and think you're scum.

I think that early in the game, town will be taking the brunt of the offensive abilities of the angels and demons. However, as the game goes on longer, they will be forced to fight each-other. If the angels only focus on killing the town, the demons will simply be able to lynch them once a day later on, and eliminate their KP to win. When the demons corrupt a player and it is successful, they know this player is town, and so that reduces the pool of player with the angels in it. So, the angels can't let the demons reach this stage of the game, and must use their KP on them as early as possible to reduce this threat. As well, the demons should be helping to find angels to lynch, as it reduces the possible KP against them, keeps the lynch off them, and also makes them less likely to be targeted for investigation or demon-hunter KP, as they look more "pro-town". In fact, I think the best angel strategy would be to use their acolyte to try to target demons, as that will either kill their competition, or let them know who's a townie, and thus who's dangerous.

Any information disadvantages we may incur from the AoD and the Concealer also apply to the other faction, and they should be aware of this as well. Thus, they want to try to eliminate their counterpart's ability to hide information, as this will allow them to maintain perfect information in the game. This also ties into the above paragraph

About voting:

Don't Hammer. While we don't have to worry about corruption until day three, we should still be careful of keeping the lynch under our control. Always check the vote-count before voting, and always vote in the thread along with your PM to ZBot, so that we can see when you voted, as well as who you voted for, before Zbot the count. No one should be hammering a lynch until later in the day if we can help it, as this will give us the most time for discussion and information gathering.

EBWOP: When I say seen him play a game, I mean where I was in it with him, also playing.

On January 06 2012 22:54 Palmar wrote:


And do you think that's productive? Are you town? Do you think you're helping town progress right now?

On January 06 2012 08:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Next, is his altercation with Bluelightz, which I find very odd. Earlier, Palmar noted that he thought "it's unlikely he's scum", but then he felt the need to try to pressure him. So, something that Bluelightz posted must have caused some kind of concern for Palmar. The only thing posted by Bluelightz in this time, was his list of reads, so this must have been what set Palmar off. Pressuring Bluelightz to take a stance was fine, but the way in which Palmar did it was odd. Instead of asking Bluelightz who he would like to lynch, he instead came up with some sort of compulsive vig scenario, which doesn't add anything to the thread, and actually ended up detracting from it (see subsequent discussion with people jumping on the question instead of just discussing the lynch). Also, notice that Palmar is pressuring Bluelightz for giving a list of null and green reads, when this is the exact same thing Palmar has done up to this point in the game. It's hypocritical.

So, after he finally gets an answer from Bluelightz, he still doesn't apply any actual pressure to him. He doesn't vote for him, he doesn't ask for people to vote for him, he just said he might vote for him in the future, which does not create pressure, and is completely different from my experience with town Palmar. Palmar doesn't even attack the bad posts made by Bluelightz, where for example he said he would lynch a lurker instead of naming one. Instead, he acts rather timidly compared to the pro-town Palmar I know. He doesn't even end up answering his own question afterwards, even when asked to, refusing yet again to take a stance on scum.

Bluelightz Indonesia. January 05 2012 21:36. Posts 103 PM Profile Quote #
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Okay here's the continuation of my reads

Palmar Iceland. January 05 2012 21:42. Posts 4187 PM Profile Blog Quote #
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So who would you lynch Bluelightz?

On January 07 2012 00:52 layabout wrote:
Assuming wiggles is a demon/angel and that palmar is not on his team
Then Wiggles know that Palmar is either a townie or angel/demon and poses a threat to wiggles because Palmar is one the stronger scumhunters and could find him.
If Palmar has a power role and realises think that Wiggles is angel/demon then he will likely try to catch or kill wiggles. As someone regarded as a strong scumhunter he is more likely to be the one to catch Wiggles and convince others of his alignment.
In short he presents a threat and killing him early would help Wiggles team

What if Wiggles is a demon/angel and Palmar is not on his team?
Then Wiggles knows that Palmar is either a townie or the other faction out of Angel/Demon. And that Palmars win condition will require him to kill Wiggles. (except in the True love exception)
If Palmar has a power role and thinks that Wiggles is an angel/demon then he will likely try to investigate or slay wiggles, with his or his team-mates night actions. Alternately he might try to lynch him later on using forced votes and/or make a case against him. None of these actions are good for Wiggles.
As someone regarded as a strong scumhunter Palmar is likely to be the one to figure out that Wiggles is scum and then convince others that wiggles is scum.
In short if Wiggles is scum and Palmar isn't on his team, then Palmar presents a threat to Wiggles and killing him early would help Wiggles team.

On January 07 2012 00:51 syllogism wrote:
While I consider palmar the better lynch out of wiggles/palmar, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch palmar today. We've other very good lynches available, it's a setup with 6 scum and he is very likely to become more transparent the longer the game goes on if he is scum or dead if he is town.

I'll probably narrow the list down but I would like to keep the lynch between erandorr/risk/tyrran/refallen. Out of those erandorr appears to be by far the safest lynch and the only reason I haven't been actively pushing him as the #1 lynch was to give him more time and because it's pretty disappointing if he again decided not to play due to rolling scum.

On January 07 2012 01:30 Refallen wrote:
Yes, but would a scum immediately stick his neck out to try to lynch one of the more prominent players here? Especially assuming, of course, if Palmar flips town he will probably get lynched or at the very least be focused on the next day? Essentially trading a townie for a scum. And even if a scum team deems this worthwhile, would they send mr.wiggles to do the accusing, seeing as how he has a high chance of being the better player on the scum team? Same thing with jackal, and it's why I think they might be town. The only mitigating factor is the fact that syllo was on palmars case early in the game, and wiggles/jackal thought that was the green light in getting palmar lynched. I think the explanation that they're town is more likely though.

Also, syllo, why do you still want to lynch me?

On January 07 2012 01:48 Zephirdd wrote:
They would, exactly because someone would end up asking this question. Someone mentioned that there is a 80% rate of mislynch on day one on a mafia dedicated forum, and that is quite something. This is enough to say that you cannot push someone as scum because he made a mistake day 1 - which is something many players interpret wrongly. It's NORMAL for town to make mistakes as long as they are justifiable.

However, Palmar points out a good amount of inconsistencies on MrWiggles' case, and we should also consider that he is an experienced player(compared to most of the lineup). He knows better than making those mistakes, and we all know that inexperienced players would fail to see these little inconsistencies and end up lynching Palmar. If there is one thing perfectly fine for a scum team, is to lynch an enemy Palmar right off the bat; ESPECIALLY day 1 where the most wrong cases occur.

Although the same could be said for MW(a scum Palmar would benefit a whole lot from lynching MW), the difference is that Palmar's case is much stronger than MrWiggles, especially when, by building that case, he broke a good lot of MrWiggles' arguments.


Either way, we can also consider that both Palmar AND MrWiggles may be scum(two families).