EPTStudent Mafia (New/Newish players welcome) - Page 5
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
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xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
On December 04 2011 10:58 xtfftc wrote: Oh, nice, I come home after a night out and I have a mafia waiting for me. Sucks to have the deadline in the middle of the night though, I'm always sleeping during the most fun part of the game. :/ Yeah it feels weird to be on UK time at first, but you get used to it ^^ | ||
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
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Velinath
United States694 Posts
On December 04 2011 11:26 jaybrundage wrote: Sweet lets get this ball rolling. Although to be honesty i never know what to do day one. Yeah, that's about how I feel. Hard to make any progress when nobody's posted anything yet, heh. | ||
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xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
 There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why? Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
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Velinath
United States694 Posts
Okay, so from the games I've read, I've noticed a few things. First, lynching lurkers has actually lost a couple of the games I've read. If people are actively scumhunting, we should be able to find better targets than lurkers. That said, if we have no good lynch candidates by, say, two hours before the day ends I'm not opposed to a lurker lynch, as I see lurkers as more likely to be scum (from some articles I've read, lurking is apparently a viable scum strategy). Lynching liars, though, I 100% agree with. I read some articles about when townies have a reason to lie, and none of them swayed my opinion on this - honesty is absolutely the best policy for town-aligned players. Any gambits involving lying to gain information seemed to have a huge potential to backfire and end up having repercussions for multiple townies, and the risk involved isn't worth the possible reward. I'll go ahead and throw this out there for everyone - if you get caught in a lie, you should expect to be lynched the same day. Something that wherebugsgo said earlier in the thread (before the game started) really stood out to me. If someone claims a blue role and another person counterclaims, we should absolutely be lynching them both. Although I don't agree with the strategies he laid out (there are some counters I could see to the listed strategies), I do agree that lynching both a claimant and a counterclaimant provides almost a 100% chance of getting one scum out of it. (Would this count as a policy lynch)? | ||
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Grackaroni
United States9832 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote: For those of you playing your first game, hi! There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why? Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Hi, I would agree with your view on both lynching liars and not lynching lurkers. Unfortunately in a Newbie game I would expect to have a decent amount of lurkers and from what I've found scum are more willing to participate a decent amount and the lurkers are generally bored townies. The best way to help town is to remain active and always post your opinions/reads. if townies aren't posting it becomes extremely difficult to discover who is scum. I agree that we should lynch all liars, if you are town simply don't lie; it may seem awesome to fakeclaim a role to try to trick mafia into roleblocking/attacking you but it will usually just result in chaos and distract the town. | ||
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xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
If we happen to get it wrong and kill the blue, we get a guarenteed scum lynch the next day, so it's not the end of the world Don't get the wrong idea here blues, we do NOT want you to claim now cause you'll just get shot, it's just a hypothetical situation. | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote: What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why? Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. | ||
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xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote: Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. | ||
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Velinath
United States694 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:26 xsksc wrote: If we happen to get it wrong and kill the blue, we get a guarenteed scum lynch the next day, so it's not the end of the world Yeah, this was what I was trying to say. I guess I didn't word it too well. On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote: Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much I disagree. I feel like if we simply implement this as a policy lynch now, we will be able to go into the middle of the game and be able to build more effective cases on people given that town would have no reason to create contradictions in their posts. | ||
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ey215
United States546 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote: I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. Hi all! Lynch all Liars is rough, sometimes you need to use your head and be able to tell the difference between a lie and a misunderstanding or misstatement. In games where people are posting a lot it's very easy for people to misspeak not realizing what exactly they've said in the past. I would think some common sense would help here. If it's an outright lie, by all means lynch away. If it's a misstatement and we've got a better case on someone it's better to let it slide. On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. Looking forward to this. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote: I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. It's acceptable for not everyone to agree on "lynch all liars"-- as long as a fair majority of us do, Nobody will lie. But lying or not, I think the thing we should focus on here is lynching lurkers. I say this because we NEED to make it so mafia talks. Everyone has to contribute. The reason lurking is considered a "viable strategy" is because the less a mafia guy talks, the less mistakes he makes, and the less chances there are that he'll seriously blunder. If there were no serious repercussions, a Mafia guy will barely talk at all. This game begins with assymetric information-- Mafia know who's town (but not blue), but each individual townie/blue doesn't know anything but his own alignment. In this case, it's absolutely vital we encourage mafia members to talk so we can flush them out. They won't slip up unless they have the opportunity to do so. This is the prime reason why lynching lurkers is a good idea. If we all strongly believe in this policy, there will be no lurkers. All the townies will be contributing, and all the mafia members will be torn between contributing AND trying to be unhelpful. It puts a huge amount of pressure on the mafia members. The additional reason for lynching lurkers is that we need all of the help the townspeople can give. It's important also to provide a lively conversation for the Blues (we have 2) to take part in. We have a cop and/or a rolechecker and they can't adequately get their information into the conversation without there being a conversation to begin with. If it turns out we have a lot of townie lurkers even implementing this policy, we're dead anyways. The idea that we shouldn't lynch lurkers because there might be a lot of townie lurkers is inherently flawed-- if there's 1 townie lurker, it's good to get rid of him anyways, and if there are a lot of townie lurkers we're basically boned. So, we should Lynch All Lurkers. Anyone who disagrees with me better have a damn good reason why. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:01 Velinath wrote: I disagree. I feel like if we simply implement this as a policy lynch now, we will be able to go into the middle of the game and be able to build more effective cases on people given that town would have no reason to create contradictions in their posts. The fact of the matter is, Lynch All Liars discourages lies. Even if we don't adopt this as a town policy, as long as it's known that a fair number of us are doing this, Mafia feels more pressure. We need to make it so they don't have a lot of breathing room. | ||
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Velinath
United States694 Posts
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right? (Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.) | ||
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BroodKingEXE
United States829 Posts
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak. I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group. What do you think? | ||
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xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
Changing your past opinnion about someone or being wrong about something is not gonna get you lynched for lying. A misunderstanding is not a lie. Telling us you got roleblocked or medic saved etc when nobody visited you that night, that's a lie. Making a fake dt claim to try and lynch someone you think is scum, that's a lie. It's ok to be wrong, just don't straight up lie | ||
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Velinath
United States694 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote: Hey guys! Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak. I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group. What do you think? Hi, I assume that when you're talking about people not misspeaking you're referring to Lynch All Liars. What do you think about Lynch All Lurkers as a policy? | ||
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