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On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:For those of you playing your first game, hi!  There are a couple of things you may want to know. Don't lie. As town, lying is almost never going to help, it'll probably just end up with you getting lynched. Don't be too quick to mindlessly jump on every bandwagon. Keep an open mind and vote for someone you believe there is a strong case on, or if you want to start your own case, write some good analysis on who you think is scum. Don't be a sheep. Try hard not to lurk, if townies are lurking it's a lot easier for scum to lurk with you. Just post whatever your thoughts are, let us know how you feel about X's post or Y's suspicious behavior. Let's get some discussion going! What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high. Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum.
Ok i think we should all agree that a lying is a bad thing. I honestly dont see a situation where it could be of use. As far as i see it, It just gives wrong information to the town. And can cause people to make bad calls based on a lie. I would be in favor of a lynch all liars policy.
However i dont really think that lynching lurkers as a policy would be good. Lurkers could just be townies that dont have much to add. Or have alot on there schedule i know with my working hours it can be hard to post on a continuous basis. Also we should never lynch a lurker if we have a someone that looks scummy. Although on the other hand if we dont have any one that we think is mafia we could lynch a lurker as in general lurkers arent helpful to the town.
Also Im curious tho what situation would there be that lying would even be helpful. Is it just that im still kinda new that i dont see it?
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Blazinghand, lynching ALL lurkers simply because they are lurking, is a very bad idea, especially in a game with newbies. Lurking should be discouraged, and you will draw suspicion to yourself if you lurk. I strongly disagree with policy lynching lurkers though.
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If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.)
You say that like we all have to be in perfect agreement. You have the freedom to implement LALurkers conditionally in your own actions. Barring a good case on a Mafia member, though, I will lynch a lurker.
##Vote Electricblack
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=291067&user=235503
ElectricBlack literally hasn't posted. ElectricBlack, come out and start talking, or I see no reason to change my vote. That being said, if you come by and start contributing, I see no reason to vote for you :D I'm mostly doing this to get you out here and helping.
So hurry up.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:17 xsksc wrote:
Blazinghand, lynching ALL lurkers simply because they are lurking, is a very bad idea, especially in a game with newbies. Lurking should be discouraged, and you will draw suspicion to yourself if you lurk. I strongly disagree with policy lynching lurkers though.
there's a difference between the Town as a whole lynching all lurkers and a few townies believing in that. I don't think everyone should believe in lynching all lurkers, but if a couple of people believe in it and push lurkers into the spotlight, that helps us immeasurably. Please, vote how you believe. I will flush out all the lurkers and bring the mafia to the surface. If I have to do it alone, I will do what I must.
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Since there was some clarification posted on Lynch All Liars by xkskc (you and xtf are going to confuse me all game with your similar names):
I would like to add that if you see what you think is a lie, it's probably best to bring it to the attention of the thread. I feel that if we implement Lynch All Liars, the posters in this thread will be good judges of what's a lie and what's a misunderstanding. Given that, we can probably safely implement a Lynch All Liars policy.
I think we have, what, 3 or 4 people currently in favor of this? If we get three or four more, we can consider this policy implemented, as that will give us an unshakable majority.
jaybrundage, what do you think of my modification to Lynch All Lurkers at the bottom of the last page?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On December 04 2011 13:20 Velinath wrote:
Since there was some clarification posted on Lynch All Liars by xkskc (you and xtf are going to confuse me all game with your similar names):
I would like to add that if you see what you think is a lie, it's probably best to bring it to the attention of the thread. I feel that if we implement Lynch All Liars, the posters in this thread will be good judges of what's a lie and what's a misunderstanding. Given that, we can probably safely implement a Lynch All Liars policy.
I think we have, what, 3 or 4 people currently in favor of this? If we get three or four more, we can consider this policy implemented, as that will give us an unshakable majority.
jaybrundage, what do you think of my modification to Lynch All Lurkers at the bottom of the last page?
To be fair, with 3/4 people believing in Lynch All Liars, that's already fairly solid-- Mafia will automatically have 3/4 people all up on them if they get caught in a lie.
Corollary: Townies, don't lie. Just don't.
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EBWOP because you guys post too fast:
Blazinghand, I completely agree with your idea here. If we lack a case on a poster in the thread, lurkers are, regardless of alignment, anti-town, and they should be lynched in preference to a no-lynch.
Given that,
##Vote: Bbite
Let's hear from another nonposter.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Yes, That's why i'm talking bout, V-dawg! :D
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
EBWOP that's what I'm talking bout*
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Other notable lurkers:
Hassybaby has not posted yet. Please post.
Tunkeg has not posted yet. Please post.
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You guys have to remember, it's 4.26am (fuck sleep I'm playing Skyrim) in some timezones right now, the game only started a few hours ago.
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there is no option to no-lynch in this setup. Somebody is going to be lynched every day
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
xskxc: Indeed, and it's entirely reasonable that Bbite, Tunkeg, ElectricBlack, and Hassybaby are asleep.
That's ok. Once EB wakes up and posts, I'll unvote him.
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On December 04 2011 13:27 xsksc wrote:
You guys have to remember, it's 4.26am (fuck sleep I'm playing Skyrim) in some timezones right now, the game only started a few hours ago.
Oh, I know I figure it's okay to get some pressure started early, though. I can always rescind this vote later if they post in the thread - we've got 48 hours, after all!
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[color=green]Mods: Do I rescind votes by using (double pound sign)Unvote: (player name)?[/color]
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Enough talk about lynching lurkers anyway, that can wait till closer to the deadline.
The priority for us at the moment is scum hunting, we'll only lynch a lurker if we've exhausted every other option.
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On December 04 2011 13:10 Velinath wrote:
Blazinghand:
Let's implement Lynch All Lurkers conditionally. If we have a case on someone else in the thread, we should use those lynches above a lurker lynch. If we have no good cases on anyone who's been actively posting, THEN lynch a lurker. Yes, lurking is anti-town, but we should be more focused on scumhunting from posts in the thread. Lynching people who are actively trying to misdirect the town should be a better option, right?
(Given that, we may want to look at lynching a lurker today, if any remain by tomorrow (that's tomorrow in real time, by the way). I doubt we'll have any strong cases built by the end of day 1.)
Yea this makes perfect sense to me. If we have someone who we think is scum we should nail his ass. A lurker while not helpful to the town should be a secondary concern. So we only lynch a lurker if we dont have any good scum reads.
On December 04 2011 13:17 Grackaroni wrote:
If we cannot agree on a solid lynch backed up with analysis that the town can agree on, then a lurker lynch is a good option since you are not risking lynching an active townie who is actually spending the time to read and analyze the game.
Just judging from the game i replaced in with no mafia modkills and a shit load of town, I'm inclined to believe that we may have some lurking townies in this game as well.
IF THE TOWN CANNOT AGREE ON A TARGET BASED ON ANALYSIS then I would agree that we need to lynch somebody who is lurking rather than an active townie, because the lurker will always remain a null read and an easy scapegoat for scum.
Yea this pretty much sums it up. We gotta be actively scum hunting. Looking thru everyones post for a slip or something we dont think is protown. Only then we should be lynching lurkers. But ideally guys, We shouldn't have any lurkers lets encourage some solid posts with content. Im not saying spam but the more posts we have the better we are off for looking for information.
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On December 04 2011 13:24 Velinath wrote:
EBWOP because you guys post too fast:
Blazinghand, I completely agree with your idea here. If we lack a case on a poster in the thread, lurkers are, regardless of alignment, anti-town, and they should be lynched in preference to a no-lynch.
Given that,
##Vote: Bbite
Let's hear from another nonposter.
We cannot have no-lynches in this game due to the voting rules.
I am all for lynching anyone who scum slips or is caught in an outright lie, as they're almost sure to be mafia. Lynching lurkers on the other hand, while I think they offer nothing to the town, also provides the town with very little new information and costs us an additional townie through a night-kill.
As previously stated in the thread, bored townies are more likely to go inactive/lurk due to not having a very interesting role, whereas a mafia member has two teammates who are relying on him/her to stay active and try to achieve a win.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
In fact, given that most of those people are European, it's fairly likely they're asleep. I'm going to discuss our other semi-lurkers.
ey215 has made a single post so far:
On December 04 2011 13:01 ey215 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2011 12:52 xsksc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:35 xtfftc wrote:On December 04 2011 12:06 xsksc wrote:
What do you guys think of policy lynches in general? Do you think they are a good idea, if so, why?
Personally I disagree with lynching a lurker JUST because they're lurking, in a game like this anyway. The risk of hitting a townie is way too high.
Lynch all liars is a great idea though. It discourages people from lying right from day 1, the only people with a good reason to lie are scum. Both sound great but in reality they don't work. Lynch All Liars.. People get lies and opinions mixed up all the time, and even when a lie is a lie, eventually you realise that there are different types of lies and lynching for some of them is a bit too much. Then comes the argument that if we lynch everyone caught in a lie, townies would stop lying, so we would not have to deal with all of this. But the reality is that you lynch a townie for lying, then you lose the game because of wasting a lynch in order to teach the liars a lesson, then you join another game and you realise that there's so many other players you have to teach that same lesson, and so on. If we start doing it in every single game, it might work after a while. But when you've invested a week in the game, you don't want to throw it away just because some townie attempted a stupid gamble. All you are focused on is lynching mafia. And townies tend to get lynched for lying all the time anyway, even without having the policy in place - simply becase when someone is caught lying, they are usually accused of being mafia. Agreeing upon whether someone is lukring or not is easier but simply lynching all lurkers is not optimal. What's important is that people realise that sometimes every active player is a townie. If your analysis leads you to the conclussion that the active players are townies, then you start lynching lurkers. That's the best we can do. I don't understand your part about lynch all liars. Think about it logically, if we say, "Lie and you're gonna get lynched" then no townie is going to lie, are they? It's not just to teach a lesson, scum benefit greatly from lies and deceit. I want lynch-all-liers in effect today. Also, on day 1 it's very easy for scum to post nonsense and get away with it, because day 1 can be such a mess, hell, sometimes the most active players are scum. Just because someone posts a lot doesn't make them town, lol. Look at the last newbie mini-game. Ciryandor was scum, and he posted more analysis than anyone, everyone assumed he was town and that was a big reason why town lost. Hi all! Lynch all Liars is rough, sometimes you need to use your head and be able to tell the difference between a lie and a misunderstanding or misstatement. In games where people are posting a lot it's very easy for people to misspeak not realizing what exactly they've said in the past. I would think some common sense would help here. If it's an outright lie, by all means lynch away. If it's a misstatement and we've got a better case on someone it's better to let it slide. On the lurker bit, I do think there's a time and place for lynching. If we don't have a case on someone it's better to lynch a lurker than someone active. If they're lurking then they're not contributing or giving us something to go on. Of course, if we've got a good case on someone it's better to lynch them. Looking forward to this.
He basically says... absolutely nothing. He indicates that we need to use common sense about lies, and that we should lynch scum before lurkers if possible. That's very accurate, ey215, but it's clever how you've managed to say nothing of any import, and this is your sole post, AND you're awake (american).
No substance, all fluff. Noob or Mafia? too early to tell.
On December 04 2011 13:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Hey guys!
Great to be joining. I think that when we vote we should make sure people did not mispeak.
I think that we all need to figure out what we want to do as a group.
What do you think?
Another guy with literally 1 post that says nothing. obvious we shouldn't lynch people for misspeaking. And... of COURSE we need to figure out what to do as a group. We VOTE on the lynch.
What do I think? I think you're either absurdly unhelpful or a mafioso doing a bad job of blending in. You're the same as the people who haven't posted yet, because YOU HAVEN'T POSTED ANYTHING YET.
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EPT
