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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:09 redFF wrote: you got lynched because supersoft was obviously town after he exploded all over the thread. actually, none of what super did was pro-town lol. Even the vote was incredibly derp. Imagine if myself and GM were scum. He votes Kurumi, game is lost right there. yep. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Lynch_All_Liars | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:23 Ace wrote: No point even directing TL players to simple shit like this. People have been terrible at this game doing the same stupid shit for YEARS and it's why none of them can even see the game in a big picture sense. At least now you probably realize why I didn't buy Sinani/redFF's claim in that game we were in together a while back. When you're playing at a high level and people do uncomfirmable and weird stuff, you lynch them because letting bad plays go uncontested leads to...people making bad plays again in future games. yeah, I saw your point during that game too, but ofc in that game your God role forced you to play like a village idiot so I was convinced for a while that the third mafia was still somewhere in the game. although I have to say, I was scared shitless whenever I got into an argument with sandro or chaoser. They had me pegged and all I could do was argue over and over to try and get them lynched. I'm still surprised I was able to get sandro lynched, tbh. He's incredibly good as town (and all the rest of you townies, shame on you for not rereading the thread when he died) EDIT: Although technically Ace, that misunderstanding stemmed from the fact that the OP was vague enough that red's claim wasn't a confirmed lie. HOWEVER, when Jackal claimed it WAS a confirmed lie. That game was excellent for showing the subtleties in the difference between a confirmed lie and something that, in a semi-closed setup, is really far fetched but the result of really stupid play. If anyone cares, this is the Resurrection Mafia Game hosted by iGrok a couple months ago. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You know that GM+nipple are opposite parities as well, so you might as well focus on them instead of myself+S&G. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
You get your parity check back and nothing about GM changes. The parity check tells you nothing about GM. EDIT: In fact, think about any possible parity check you could've received in that situation. In every single situation, the parity check will tell you absolutely nothing about GM's alignment. (that is, excluding your first check being dead and your second check being GM) | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:38 kitaman27 wrote: I disagree. Suppose GM is scum and claims medic. There are two possibilities: 1) There is a real medic, who is not shot night two. We get back our parity result between bugs and super and still lynch bugs. As the real medic is still alive, that allows us to pull of a second parity check, ending the game. 2) There is a real medic, who is shot night two. We get back our parity result between bugs and super and still lynch bugs. The game comes down to a 2v1 and you go from there. This. You're claiming the parity check somehow means I become scum. That's not true, the best information you have going into day 3 with any sort of check all leads to a GM lynch. Every other lynch is non-optimal and if you repeat this scenario again where I am town and the scumteam is GM+S&G, you choose to lynch me and lose. Literally the only thing that changes between those two situations is the parities. You just admitted to flipping a coin. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:50 deconduo wrote: GM's medic claim might have been a much better idea had mafia not had a rolecop. Disagree, because chaoser probably would've counterclaimed anyway. Even without the rolecop we could've shot chaoser. On November 10 2011 09:53 redFF wrote: you were scummier than s&g, and we weren't sure about GM/nipple, so we lynched you. This doesn't make any sense either, you even said yourself S&G was scum the night before. I entered the thread at a terrible time too. I had just come back from class and looked at my phone and went wtf super voted Kurumi. Had I refrained from posting it might have even turned out better. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:54 kitaman27 wrote: The parity check means either you or super were scum. We had a town read on super, we had a scum read on you guys. We lynch you guys. It's not a coinflip, its just like any other lynch. You decide based on the information available. If the scum team was GM and S&G, the game plays out differently and perhaps we don't make the same decision. uhhh... you said you had a scum read on S&G not even a day ago, not to mention by all accounts S&G was saying scummier things on day 3. I mean, "scummy" is all subjective at this point, so it's not like it matters. EDIT: My whole point is that if the scumteam was GM+S&G (and the best evidence pointed to GM being scum) then you would've lost. The two situations are literally indistinguishable. That is precisely why it's bad town play. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
lolol | ||
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wherebugsgo
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wherebugsgo
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On November 10 2011 11:02 GreYMisT wrote: No i understand, He is saying that a smart town would have killed GMarshal because his plan was chaotic and very indicative of scum play, and we didnt do it because we were dumb. I'm saying its a good thing we were dumb, or we would have lost This is gold LOL It should go in the postgame analysis | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Next thing you know you'll have 3 new players fake claiming medic before LYLO every game | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 11:16 chaoser wrote: Wait. I just realized. WBG and Ace are pulling an Idra. "F91 played dumb! That's why he won!" Idra sucks and F91 sounds like it should be the name of this mafia setup when it gets rebalanced | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 13:01 kitaman27 wrote: Hmm? bugs alignment wasn't related to GM's alignment. There was a parity check between Radfield/Bugs and super/grey that returned different. That means there was a difference in parity between GM and Kurumi/RoL. From there, GM was the clearer town based on the first three days events. there is nothing that told you GM was clear town over Kurumi in that respect. Even Qatol said that you would lynch the fake claimer because he's a confirmed liar. The inactive guy is 9 times out of 10 a bored townie. This is precisely why we left sinani alive so long in PYP. He's fucking useless as town and it came down to a process of elimination where we had no choice but to kill him. Same thing here, except you had a choice and you just chose badly lol. You chose correctly, just your method was dumb. EDIT: On November 10 2011 13:09 redFF wrote: yes he could've claimed medic. me and kita spent hours on irc talking about whether he was scum or not. this was not luck or a bad decision. we spent hours deliberating before we made the call on who was scum. the simple fact that you spent hours on it shows more than anything else lol. I knew something like this would happen. I PMed Ace about 5 minutes after day 3 started telling him to check the game out cause I thought the situation was interesting. I wanted to see whether you guys would follow the logic train. It somehow derailed and crashed horribly. Although, you won. + Show Spoiler + also I wanted to know what I should've done better so I didn't feel like it was impossible to win -_- that literally was a concern for me though, at no point in the game did I think mafia had an advantage. It sucked. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 13:13 kitaman27 wrote: Technically we never had to make the decision because you guys conceded  I didn't concede. Kurumi literally just gave up. I PMed him after going wtf, why did you do that when kita expressed doubt in the thread. Clearly, after 3 days of doing nothing, he had no future intent of doing anything. I actually thought it was funny that I could use the line, "oh really plausible, I'm the lone scum with 3 afk buddies" and actually mean it lololol | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 13:00 prplhz wrote: But this is a game of behavioral analysis and not a game of statistics or logic? Or lynching people just to teach them a lesson ... what the fuck ofc it's a game of logic | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 13:20 prplhz wrote: But it's that only when people behave logically? I mean sometimes stuff is logical, but then if like people count on me to act logically you'll be very disappointed and maybe you have to account for that or something? Like if I suck and then you're like "of course he's a genius like everybody else because why wouldn't everybody be a genius" and then I totally fooled you because I suck and stuff like that. Or what ... ? maybe that's why you get lynched day 1 every game Look, scum barely touched you and you got yourself lynched. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 13:37 prplhz wrote: Yea maybe that's why I get lynched day1 all the time ... But this is a game about finding scum, not about finding people who act illogical even though maybe that's a scum tell? Just because I'm dumb doesn't make me scum? I dunno .. You get lynched day 1 all the time because your illogical reasoning makes you a massive red herring and detriment to town. Generally detriments to town are scum, not stupid townies. If townies stopped acting stupid then you could actually scumhunt for real, instead of active townies ending up fisting themselves by pursuing false leads when the real mafia come and defecate on the thread. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On November 10 2011 13:47 prplhz wrote: Yea but how are you going to handle my sucking? Are you going to ban me from all games? Or are you going to try to see if there are other tells to my alignment than whether I just have bad logic, which I always have, or good logic? Are there other tells? Dunno I never claimed to be any good at this game but maybe this is helping, even though I doubt it. Dude you keep asking why you get lynched day 1 every game. People handle your shitty play BY LYNCHING YOU ON DAY 1. How thick can you be when you can't even tell the optimal solution is to just kill you? Just look at this game, scum didn't touch you and you died, meaning town thought you were scum and your shitty play=scummy play. So they killed you. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
 I wonder where that bastard is EDIT: Also prpl, for the record, last game in PYP where you were scum and I was town, we believed you were town because your claim was ballsy and we already knew someone above you had picked dreamflower. Basically even in that game you were gonna get lynched day 1 or shot night 1, which means that it's basically your behavior and thread presence/logic that's the problem. Generally when you say things they just sound anti-town, so we decide, okay, I guess it's time to kill this guy. In this game the case on you was really bad, but the problem was that the things you were saying that were good were buried under the pile of derp that you kept piling on yourself. You kept saying things that made no sense, and as GM pointed out it was incredibly difficult to tell what you were trying to say. From a town perspective it's really annoying to deal with someone who appears like they just don't give a shit about finding scum, or making it easier to find scum. So, they resort to the only way they have of getting rid of you; lynching you. Day 2 it surfaced obviously that your case was really bad. I used those facts to basically blast whoever was on your wagon; i.e. chaoser and sandro. They couldn't do anything about it because in hindsight their case WAS shitty. I used your mistakes, basically, your bad play, to punish THEM for doing what was optimal; killing a player who was detrimental to town. That's what happens when townies use bad logic. They get lynched, then scum takes the lynch and manipulates it to make all the townies on the wagon look like shit. That's how strings of mislynches occur. At least, that's how I strung those mislynches. If you notice, I had multiple options. I was going for bum, but then I forgot that we thought bum was blueish. We shot him and it made me look bad but I didn't give a rat's ass because iGrok had hard FoSed team SS and bum's accusations held very little weight. | ||
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