Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread will get big quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play. I will not compensate for ignorance.
Rules:
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information. 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town. 3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role. 4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles. 5. Posting screenshots of your inbox. 6. Posting any PM you receive from a host. 7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip. 8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts. 9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits. 10. Sharing accounts with other players. Only you may post on your account. Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
Posting:
Mod Font: This is mod font. It is reserved for moderators. Please do not use it.
Question Font: This is question font. Use it to ask the moderators questions about the rules. Please do us a favor and read the rules before you ask anything.
Activity: You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled.
Smurfs: Do not sign up as one. I will find out, and be upset. This is a game for new players only
Spam: Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing: Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. While I ask for everybody to post as concisely as possible, post again if you have to edit anything.
Inappropriate posts: If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, Qatol, or Flamewheel before involving the TL staff. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Reporting posts: The report button is a nice feature for regular TL, but not for this forum. We prefer to deal with things in house if possible to avoid confusion among the TL staff. If you have a problem with how someone is posting, talk to the host, co-host, Qatol, or Flamewheel before using your report button. Please do not use your report button for anything other than inappropriate posts which you feel are not being dealt with adequately.
Ban discussions: Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
You have been warned.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done in this thread. Please keep votes there, and only vote there. Do not PM me your vote. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote Qatol. Votes not done in the correct fashion will not be counted. I will update vote counts whenever I get the chance. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game. 5. This game follows Extended Majority Lynch Rules. Majority = #of players remaining in the game/2) (rounded down) + 1. Unlike in traditional majority lynch, the lynch is NOT decided the moment majority is reached. Instead, only the final vote count matters. If there is no majority at the deadline, the day ends with a no lynch. Non-voters will be modkilled for failure to vote. 6. Voting is mandatory. You may (NOT) abstain.
Signups:
This game is open to new players only this means three or fewer games played here on TL
Game-specific rules:
Modkills: This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will (will not) go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please PM Qatol or post in the Ban List.
Replacements This game uses replacements. Replacements will be made in the game until I say so. If a player is modkilled during the designated time, then they will be replaced by a player on the replacement list.
Clues: There are [u]NO[u] clues.
PMs PMs are [u]not[u] allowed in this game.
Time Cycle: This game will follow a (24 hour night/48 hour) day cycle. In case I am not able to post around deadline, any votes after the 48 hour mark will not count and the game will be put on halt until the night post is up. Currently the deadline is time, but that is subject to change. Credits: Thanks to anyone who has ever hosted a game. This list grows ever longer. Thanks to everyone who helped balance this game.
If you have not read all the rules, go back and do so. I will not compensate for ignorance!
The setup is a modified version of F11; one of the following four setups is to be randomly chosen and used:
Set Up: 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 7 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 9 Town 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Medic, 8 Town. 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Detective, 8 Town.
You will not know which setup is chosen.
Roles:
Townie You are just a normal player with no night actions. All you can do is vote during the day. But the town needs you to win so be active!
Detective You can make night investigations. Once per night you may ask for the alignment of any player. Alignments are either Town or Mafia. You are always sane. Alignment checks come back with the next day post.
Medic You have the power to save lives. Once per night you can watch a player. If your target is attacked, you will block one hit aimed at them. If you make a successful save, both you and your target will be notified of the save. You cannot save yourself.
Mafia Goon Your goal is to eliminate everyone else in the town. Your ability, as a group, is killing off whomever you decide on at night and knowing the role of each other player in your mafia. You may kill your own members. Mafia killing power is always 1 until there are no mafia remaining.
Roleblocker You are a mafia member who has the ability to prevent a player from performing a night action. Once per night, you may roleblock a player, and your target will be unable to perform night actions for that night. Your target will be informed that they have been roleblocked (even if they didn't have a night action). You do not have to use your action every night.
Welcome to SNMMVI you are a Vanilla Townie. You have no special powers against the mafia except your mind, your vote and your voice. Use those three things to hunt down the mafia before they destroy the town.
Welcome to SNMMVI you are a Detective. You love sleuthing around and can divine the alignment of one player per night. Just PM me who you wish to investigate and your report will be given to you with the day post.
Welcome to SNMMVI you are a Medic. Fresh out of medical school you insist on visiting a patient each night to check up on him. Evey night you visit someone, and if they would have been killed they instead are not, and you are both notified of this. Just PM me who you want to visit every night.
On September 12 2011 11:41 GreYMisT wrote: Is this game going to start before or after LOTR mafia, because if my small stint in mafia XLIV counts as a game I will be able to play.
Well, this game start whenever its full, so I'm not sure if you meet the requirements :-/
I just reread the set-ups and I'm not sure if that thing is correct or a typo so I'll quote:
Set Up: 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 7 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 9 Town 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Medic, 8 Town. 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Detective, 8 Town.
Those 2 bottom ones look perfectly "balanced " between each other, 3 goons vs either 1medi+8 town OR 3 goons vs 1 dt+8 town. Looks good, 3 red, both times the same vs 8green+1blue on both. However the first 2 are kinda crazy if you ask me. It's either mafia vs 7 town + 1medic + 1dt or it's mafia vs 9 towns. So basicly, while red teams stays exactly the same again, town might play with 7 greens and 2 blues or with no blues at all.
This is my first ever mafia so I don't know if I'm talking bullshit right now, I just read it once again to get a view thougths about it and it seems strange to me so I'm asking about it. That one option is basicly just the same, except that it seems to be "weaker" in every possible aspect Is there a reason for this? For example, take the 2nd one, if red turns out to be 3 guys playing for the first time, while town got all of those 2nd, or 3rd time players (i.e "buffin red 'cause they're 'bunch of noobs")? Or ist it a type and the second one needs to be buffed?
Obviously I should not post at 3.51 am in the morning on tl.net after playing some poker with a few of my friends.
Is the not editing rule already in place although the game hasn't startet yet? :D Would not have made a new post just for the spelling issues. I guess everyone knew what was meant anyway but since I'm combining that one with another question I'm fine, right? :p
Although another thought on the question one post above. I guess it should be 2 blues on 1st set and 2nd set right? It's basicly: 1 blue for town if mafia does not have a roleblocker or 2 blues for town if mafia does have a roleblocker. But in that case you'd only need 3 sets, cause 7 townies+dt+medic is the same as 7 townies+medic+dt. So it all comes down to: Is there a reason why one set is just way weaker than those other 3 ones.
You can edit your posts since the game hasn't started. Most people here will just double post since that's what we're used to, and this is the only place on TL where double posting is not frowned upon.
There are no typo's in the possible setups. They are designed this way to prevent either side from having complete information about the setup (at least at the start of the game). Consider the possibilities if we do what you suggested:
Say you are mafia and your team has a roleblocker. Then you know for absolute certainty that the town has a medic and a DT. However, if you get the DT role, you have no idea if there is a medic or not. This benefits the mafia as they have the information, and can use that to their advantage.
By adding in the fourth option, 1 Roleblocker 2 mafia 9 town, neither side has complete information anymore. Mafia have the roleblocker, but they have no idea whether they are up against 2 blues or not.
To say that the second setup is "weaker" for the town (or what have you) is not entirely true. This is especially true when the player base is good. For every good player, getting a blue role is a stocking stuffer; it's nice to have but not going to do that much in the long term. Good mafia players will kill the blues before they can pose a threat, and good town players never rely on blue roles to win the game.
Consider these two setups:
3 Mafia 1 medic 8 town 3 Mafia 9 town.
Is the first setup more town favored than the second? Yes. How much? Very little (remember the Medic cannot self protect). If we could run an experiment and test each of these 1000 times I doubt we'd see a significant difference in the outcomes. If you RNG these experiments they will converge to the same outcome as well (obviously doesn't mean anything to most people, but I find it interesting).
Also remember that mafia can (and should) counter claim any claiming attempt made by the town.
Haha, I was actually trying to type some of that foolishness, but my attempts to explain it with any sort of clarity were failing me, so i just shamelessly passed it off to you guys
On September 14 2011 11:52 Curu wrote: lmao might as well remake this to a Mini for smurfs GMan.
Nah, I don't think anyone is stupid enough to risk my wrath and the accompanying consequences of smurfing in a newbie game. Especially with the pre-game IP checks, and such.
I'm actually surprised people did not expect like at least one smurf actually. I'm sure one of the vet players are joining in secretly as one of those "advisory" roles.
On September 15 2011 09:40 Hesmyrr wrote: I'm actually surprised people did not expect like at least one smurf actually. I'm sure one of the vet players are joining in secretly as one of those "advisory" roles.
If there are any such "advisor smurfs" its certainly news to me. I'm the host, so I expect I would be informed if there were.
EDIT: Oh, hi mr... chauser was it? I've never heard of you before, I'll just go ahead and plop you on the player list :-P
Have fun dealing with me until tuesday, cause we got kind of an Oktoberfest going on where I'm from right now :p Just to tell you right now and it's not supposed to look strange/scummy that I'm not posting an awful lot the next 3 days if it's going to start before tuesday.
You can edit your posts since the game hasn't started. Most people here will just double post since that's what we're used to, and this is the only place on TL where double posting is not frowned upon.
There are no typo's in the possible setups. They are designed this way to prevent either side from having complete information about the setup (at least at the start of the game). Consider the possibilities if we do what you suggested:
Say you are mafia and your team has a roleblocker. Then you know for absolute certainty that the town has a medic and a DT. However, if you get the DT role, you have no idea if there is a medic or not. This benefits the mafia as they have the information, and can use that to their advantage.
By adding in the fourth option, 1 Roleblocker 2 mafia 9 town, neither side has complete information anymore. Mafia have the roleblocker, but they have no idea whether they are up against 2 blues or not.
To say that the second setup is "weaker" for the town (or what have you) is not entirely true. This is especially true when the player base is good. For every good player, getting a blue role is a stocking stuffer; it's nice to have but not going to do that much in the long term. Good mafia players will kill the blues before they can pose a threat, and good town players never rely on blue roles to win the game.
Consider these two setups:
3 Mafia 1 medic 8 town 3 Mafia 9 town.
Is the first setup more town favored than the second? Yes. How much? Very little (remember the Medic cannot self protect). If we could run an experiment and test each of these 1000 times I doubt we'd see a significant difference in the outcomes. If you RNG these experiments they will converge to the same outcome as well (obviously doesn't mean anything to most people, but I find it interesting).
Also remember that mafia can (and should) counter claim any claiming attempt made by the town.
Wait, mafia should counter claim any claim attempt by town? Wouldn't town just policy lynch them both since a 1 for 1 trade is beneficial to town, especially considering how "weak" blue powers are in these set ups?
Unless I'm mistaken the op says you must have only played 3 games or less. You have technically not "played" MLP mafia or LOTR mafia yet, but are in the process of playing them.
On September 18 2011 07:11 GreYMisT wrote: Unless I'm mistaken the op says you must have only played 3 games or less. You have technically not "played" MLP mafia or LOTR mafia yet, but are in the process of playing them.
Its still not a brilliant idea to try juggling 3 games...
On September 18 2011 07:20 GreYMisT wrote: No, No its not. I think I can keep up, but If you would rather me give my spot to someone else, I'm fine with that.
If you think you can handle it its cool, just beware of going inactive
Just an idea, from what I see on the Mafiascum newbie games they let a couple of Veterans play so they can walk them through the game and give tips while in the game. Maybe you could do this too since it looks like you're having a hard time getting a full newbie game.
On September 20 2011 12:29 GreYMisT wrote: Well GM, Looks like I'm suddenly availible to take on another game. lol
I think you no longer qualify though :-(
I think I'm just going to run this game with 10 players and a night 0 start. Should be balanced that way. Starting in about 24 hours, unless I get two more sign ups.
yo is there a discussion QT or anything like that for non players?
I'd like to coach but I don't think I'm good enough for that. Observing/talking with non-participants (without knowledge of the setup) would be nice though
On September 24 2011 07:36 wherebugsgo wrote: yo is there a discussion QT or anything like that for non players?
I'd like to coach but I don't think I'm good enough for that. Observing/talking with non-participants (without knowledge of the setup) would be nice though
You can coach if you want, you are hardly bad :-P
If you want a non-player QT I'll set it up. Also roles going out as soon as I talk with my cohost and assign them (so probably some time tonight/tomorrow)
On September 24 2011 07:36 wherebugsgo wrote: yo is there a discussion QT or anything like that for non players?
I'd like to coach but I don't think I'm good enough for that. Observing/talking with non-participants (without knowledge of the setup) would be nice though
You can coach if you want, you are hardly bad :-P
If you want a non-player QT I'll set it up. Also roles going out as soon as I talk with my cohost and assign them (so probably some time tonight/tomorrow)
I'd like to get in on this QT if at all possible as well
On September 24 2011 07:36 wherebugsgo wrote: yo is there a discussion QT or anything like that for non players?
I'd like to coach but I don't think I'm good enough for that. Observing/talking with non-participants (without knowledge of the setup) would be nice though
You can coach if you want, you are hardly bad :-P
If you want a non-player QT I'll set it up. Also roles going out as soon as I talk with my cohost and assign them (so probably some time tonight/tomorrow)
On September 24 2011 07:36 wherebugsgo wrote: yo is there a discussion QT or anything like that for non players?
I'd like to coach but I don't think I'm good enough for that. Observing/talking with non-participants (without knowledge of the setup) would be nice though
You can coach if you want, you are hardly bad :-P
If you want a non-player QT I'll set it up. Also roles going out as soon as I talk with my cohost and assign them (so probably some time tonight/tomorrow)
Ooooh, can I get in on the non-player QT? It'd be awesome to actually be able to talk to people about a mafia game as it happened.
On June 17 2011 05:41 GMarshal wrote: With that we have a full game! Starting in 24 hours and 10 minutes, roles will go out about 2 hours before game start. Replacements are still welcome
On June 17 2011 05:41 GMarshal wrote: With that we have a full game! Starting in 24 hours and 10 minutes, roles will go out about 2 hours before game start. Replacements are still welcome
that would be because we haven't sent anything yet. What sinani206 meant is that he'd like to see who is alive in the 24 hours before we send out role PMs :-P
Roles out, daypost in 2 hours. Observers, if you want access to the non-player QT shoot me a PM and I will happily provide it. Players, notice the fact that I posted sample PMs in the OP and updated the coaches.
The city of Liquipolis was under attack. Building flared up in flames, killing the population as quickly as H1N1. A dragon flew across the sky, with its red hue taunting the citizens from above. On each of its wings was one letter, painted in blood. They were… GM.
Down below, the mayor, Sinani, was in a panic. He realized that he wouldn’t be able to stop the dragon unless he used the town’s only nuke. But the radiation levels of the world were too high. He didn’t want to create another hole in the ozone layer.
More dragons came, and then Sinani knew that it was now or never. He had Wherebugsgo shoot at Sandroba and Chaos13 to pressure them into flying near GMarshal, so that the blast would kill all three. Then, RedFF pressed the button.
What the three hadn’t realized though, was that the whole town hall was the nuke.
One blast later, the Mayor, his two Assistants, and the three Dragons were dead.
(And one Conspirator laughed in the shadows)
One might say that this was a worthwhile sacrifice for the town.
But was it?
The radiation from the nuke apparently caused three citizens of the town to band together and kill all but nine of the town’s other residents. But who are these three? That is for you to find out.
GMarshal the Third Party Planar Dragon is dead. Sandroba the Fire Dragon is dead. Chaos13 the Ice Dragon is dead. Sinani206 the Mayor is dead. Wherebugsgo the Vigilante is dead. RedFF the Bomber is dead. Palmar the Conspirator is somehow not in the vicinity anymore so that the game makes sense.
The day ends in 48 hours, on Thursday, Sep 29 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
So like I think we should start discuss because if we don't then we won't win.
On way to make people talk is to threaten to vote for the guys who don't talk. That way people will talk. That would be a better start than nobody talking.
We have to go to people who are active in the forum first before those who are not active when this game started, these guys if they're scum have a much larger incentive to lurk, especially if they're playing in another Mafia.
If you want advice on how to react, post, start conversations or troll, then just poke me. If I'm at a computer (I usually am) I can discuss things at length.
Assuming this game has clues (the OP seems to imply it may or may not have clues?)There are 17 red words in the day post, and one of the players is jish17.
AAAND that's about all I could find, so for now, ##Vote: jish17 hopefully some other clues are found, I doubt i'm very good at clue analysis.
On September 27 2011 22:58 sinani206 wrote: There are no clues.
So this clears the uppe FoS of Zany_001.
On September 27 2011 21:28 Ciryandor wrote: We have to go to people who are active in the forum first before those who are not active when this game started, these guys if they're scum have a much larger incentive to lurk, especially if they're playing in another Mafia.
raynpelikoneet? Thoughts on the fellow newbies?
Ciryandor, you are the only one i've played with in LoTR. I have no idea about anyone but you. And there you died at night 1 :/
For all ppl. If you are either medic or detective, in any circumstances don't leave any breadcrumbs about your role day 1. Becouse then your gonna be an easy target to mafia. I would also like, if all townies would contribute as much as possible. Becouse those people are easy to mafia to push them for a mislynch without much explanation needed afterwards.
On September 27 2011 19:38 FranzP wrote: So like I think we should start discuss because if we don't then we won't win.
On way to make people talk is to threaten to vote for the guys who don't talk. That way people will talk. That would be a better start than nobody talking.
I think this is a good advise.
On September 27 2011 21:28 Ciryandor wrote: We have to go to people who are active in the forum first before those who are not active when this game started, these guys if they're scum have a much larger incentive to lurk, especially if they're playing in another Mafia.
raynpelikoneet? Thoughts on the fellow newbies?
I think it's better to pressure inactive people, becouse, if there is like let's say 5-7 fairly inactive people, how do you judge who of them is mafia? That's why i said town should talk as much as possible, i don't care if mafia doesn't talk, becouse at some point all lurkers will be under FOS, at least by me. :D
Of course you are right about the fact that you really can't have conversation with a guy that doesn't say anything. Just don't let lurkers have a free day passes.
On September 27 2011 21:28 Ciryandor wrote: We have to go to people who are active in the forum first before those who are not active when this game started, these guys if they're scum have a much larger incentive to lurk, especially if they're playing in another Mafia.
raynpelikoneet? Thoughts on the fellow newbies?
Ciryandor, you are the only one i've played with in LoTR. I have no idea about anyone but you. And there you died at night 1 :/
For all ppl. If you are either medic or detective, in any circumstances don't leave any breadcrumbs about your role day 1. Becouse then your gonna be an easy target to mafia. I would also like, if all townies would contribute as much as possible. Becouse those people are easy to mafia to push them for a mislynch without much explanation needed afterwards.
There thanks, at least we have one guy who can start talking. Sknowman, I know you were part of my GMed game and that you were at least lurking hardcore there, you mind putting your thoughts in? Also, why are you so eager to do a pseudo-random targeting on jish, zany? Explanation besides the disproven fact that you wanted to fish for clues?
On September 27 2011 22:58 sinani206 wrote: There are no clues.
So this clears the uppe FoS of Zany_001.
On September 27 2011 21:28 Ciryandor wrote: We have to go to people who are active in the forum first before those who are not active when this game started, these guys if they're scum have a much larger incentive to lurk, especially if they're playing in another Mafia.
raynpelikoneet? Thoughts on the fellow newbies?
Ciryandor, you are the only one i've played with in LoTR. I have no idea about anyone but you. And there you died at night 1 :/
For all ppl. If you are either medic or detective, in any circumstances don't leave any breadcrumbs about your role day 1. Becouse then your gonna be an easy target to mafia. I would also like, if all townies would contribute as much as possible. Becouse those people are easy to mafia to push them for a mislynch without much explanation needed afterwards.
There thanks, at least we have one guy who can start talking. Sknowman, I know you were part of my GMed game and that you were at least lurking hardcore there, you mind putting your thoughts in? Also, why are you so eager to do a pseudo-random targeting on jish, zany? Explanation besides the disproven fact that you wanted to fish for clues?
1) He thought there could be clues, which means he didn't read the OP well enough. 2) He's trying to get something out of him by misleading him, that there might be clues (which failed, cos sinani stated after him there are no clues). 3) he's scum 4) idk
On September 28 2011 01:26 FranzP wrote: Sknowman played in werewolf and resurection mafia at least. And FatesGod is the brother of OriginalName apparently.
And you have apparently at least read some games at least. I'm playing in TL LoTR at the moment too, and Ciryandor was playing there aswell. That's all i know about other players.
On September 28 2011 00:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Ciry, btw have you played with any other of these ppl?
Nope, nobody else in the list really, so I don't have any advantage over them. Best to look at post history if anyone has been active post PM receipts. We may catch one lurker or two that way.
On September 28 2011 00:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Ciry, btw have you played with any other of these ppl?
Nope, nobody else in the list really, so I don't have any advantage over them. Best to look at post history if anyone has been active post PM receipts. We may catch one lurker or two that way.
BTW, just to clarify. Why do you think you would have an advantage over someone, if you have played with them?
Don't think so.
Players who have not played (here in TL) may have advantage over you, becouse thay might be able to read your games, if you have played here (this actually stands for everyone here, not just you).
This is my first time playing mafia but I have played werewolf a few times so I am not a total newb.
@raynpelikoneet I think there is an advantage personally playing with someone before because you have actually interacted and not read the manuscript of what was said. However we are getting sidetracked.
On September 27 2011 22:55 zany_001 wrote: Assuming this game has clues (the OP seems to imply it may or may not have clues?)There are 17 red words in the day post, and one of the players is jish17.
AAAND that's about all I could find, so for now, ##Vote: jish17 hopefully some other clues are found, I doubt i'm very good at clue analysis.
zany implies there are clues in a half assed way, either he is a stupid town wanting to get us to start talking about nonexistent clues or he is a mafia looking to side track us with stupid nonexistent clues. I am going to be watching him more closely.
I'm confused now as to why there was underlined stuff in parentheses in the OP. I assumed that was because there was a level of uncertainty in the game, as in there may (or may not)be clues. Now that the parentheses are removed it makes more sense.
Hrm no abstain, I'll leave my vote on jish17 for now but will change the minute there's something suspect noticed by someone. Why's there no abstain in this game...strange and unusual in my admittedly limited mafia experience.
Also, why are you so eager to do a pseudo-random targeting on jish, zany? Explanation besides the disproven fact that you wanted to fish for clues?
In the couple mafia games I've played on a different forum, that would be a likely clue. But so far TL mafia seems to be almost entirely different :/ makes me feel noob
Shouldn't you just unvote, knowing that your (admittedly flimsy) reason behind voting for him has been disproven? I'm not sure if that's good play. Also, we already have inactives as far as I've checked their forum activity... Edwin7, Sknowman, Toaddestern and a lurker in Fatesgod, so Fates, what say you on zany_001's early vote? Do you think he is just doing bad town play or is there a hint of scumminess? FranzP, I see you're here as well, why did you not comment on zany's actions?
On September 28 2011 09:28 Ciryandor wrote: Also, we already have inactives as far as I've checked their forum activity... Edwin7, Sknowman, Toaddestern and a lurker in Fatesgod
You forgot me. It's understandable why there are a fair amount of lurkers on the first day. Outside of zany, no one has done anything unusual, and we don't even know what the setup is yet. There's not a lot to add.
To add to the growing calls for an explanation - zany_001, why stick with voting jish17 for no good reason?
Why bother unvoting? We can't abstain, and if day ends and I don't log on in time to change to a more likely suspect, at least I've voted and won't get kicked out for not voting. If a more likely suspect shows up I'll switch straight away.
On September 28 2011 09:28 Ciryandor wrote: Also, we already have inactives as far as I've checked their forum activity... Edwin7, Sknowman, Toaddestern and a lurker in Fatesgod
You forgot me. It's understandable why there are a fair amount of lurkers on the first day. Outside of zany, no one has done anything unusual, and we don't even know what the setup is yet. There's not a lot to add.
How are we going to determine who's acting like they're anti-town if we don't rouse everyone? Also, being a VT gives you the power to REALLY POKE at people, nothing to lose, everything to gain for town. Finally, Day 1 does not excuse you from being a lurker. It's actually the best day to start tying people up to one another.
I'll wait for a few more hours for FatesGod to show up. If he doesn't I'm voting for him because not responding to getting called out feels scummy to me, especially in a newbie game.
@Ciryandor I did not comment zany's actions because I didn't thought it was worth discussing it. If he's a scum and he did it to make us focus on clues that does not exist it is a really stupid move. If it was a honest mistake then it's stupid also.
In the two case he can just defend himself by saying, I misread the OP. That doesn't give us anything on him apart from the fact that he either can't read the OP or his move was stupid.
As for his vote, voting for jish17 is as legit as voting for any of the other inactives.
Anyway I like the FatesGod idea because we know he at least read the thread.
I don't like lurkers, especially when they're linked to such a good player as OriginalName, so let's shine the spotlight on him. The least it does is force a defense on himself.
I might aswell say i'm not gonna be here when the day is over (it's 5 AM here then, and i have to go to work tomorrow), so i pretty much need to make up my mind in a couple of hours.
Set Up: 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 7 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 9 Town 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Medic, 8 Town. 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Detective, 8 Town.
Those 2 bottom ones look perfectly "balanced " between each other, 3 goons vs either 1medi+8 town OR 3 goons vs 1 dt+8 town. Looks good, 3 red, both times the same vs 8green+1blue on both. However the first 2 are kinda crazy if you ask me. It's either mafia vs 7 town + 1medic + 1dt or it's mafia vs 9 towns. So basicly, while red teams stays exactly the same again, town might play with 7 greens and 2 blues or with no blues at all.
This is my first ever mafia so I don't know if I'm talking bullshit right now, I just read it once again to get a view thougths about it and it seems strange to me so I'm asking about it. That one option is basicly just the same, except that it seems to be "weaker" in every possible aspect Is there a reason for this? For example, take the 2nd one, if red turns out to be 3 guys playing for the first time, while town got all of those 2nd, or 3rd time players (i.e "buffin red 'cause they're 'bunch of noobs")? Or ist it a type and the second one needs to be buffed?
from that post it would seem that Toadesstern cares about the game yet he hasn't posted at all. It seems like he is either not caring/playing or not contributing/lurkering
yeah nothing much really until now and going to stick with voting a lurker, when theres so little talk going on that could give information. I think we might have a problem here or am I just missing a lot of votes? Because it looks like there's way too few
yeah I think we should focus on some lurker. Right now we got 5 guys voting for lurkes as far as I can see. 2 votes on FatesGod by ciryandor and me 1 vote on Edwin by rayn 1 vote on me (as mentioned, I wasn't online, so yeah I guess I count to ) by Zanfada 1 vote on Sknowman by FranzP
So basicly if mafia wants to push something it's really easy right now because they only need 1 or 2 votes to do so. So spreading our votes on multiple lurkes probably isn't the best thing to do I assume.
5. This game follows Extended Majority Lynch Rules. Majority = #of players remaining in the game/2) + 1 (round down). Unlike in traditional majority lynch, the lynch is NOT decided the moment majority is reached. Instead, only the final vote count matters. If there is no majority at the deadline, the day ends with a no lynch. Non-voters will be modkilled for failure to vote.
Just a reminder. Activity levels have been highly disappointing, to say the least.
so we need to have 6 votes on 1 guy, or more, to actually lynch him and so far the most we got is 2? I'm going to stay awake to get this going, and switch votes if someone turns out to get a couple.
Not really a question, more a "come on guys, we got some hours left, start voting"
On September 29 2011 03:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'll be voting a lurker aswell, at least now.
## Vote Edwin5
I might aswell say i'm not gonna be here when the day is over (it's 5 AM here then, and i have to go to work tomorrow), so i pretty much need to make up my mind in a couple of hours.
Since he said he's not going to be here when day ends I'm switching to Edwin5 as well, that way we got 2 on someone, ciryandor was posting a little while ago, too, so we might get 3 if he switches too. If the rest shows up we might get enough to get a lynch going and not have 6 guys modkilled
Edwin5 hasn't even posted anywhere else, so I'd rather call him as absent than as lurking.
And SERIOUSLY, why are we going to jump on him? I would really recommend pushing on someone who we are sure has at least shown activity after the game started. Let the GM do the modkill on him if he isn't active.
I'll switch to Edwin only if you can convince me of why we're voting him off instead of letting a mod-kill happen.
Given the lynch rules, we can let the mod-kill occur because given the abysmal activity level, it's unlikely we'll get enough votes for a proper lynch today even if I switch to Edwin, and if the mod-kill goes to Edwin, we still see his flip.
My point was that we're having serious trouble getting 6 votes on someone and every vote counts. If there's going to be 6 modkills and we got 3 votes on someone else it's still a wasted day because we don't get a lynch at all. Then I guess if that's going to happen we don't even have the chance to change that.
To sum it up it's something like this: We're pretty screwed right now with only 6 guys voting, however if 2 or three guys more show up we might get something done and even in that case it's going to be hard to get 6 guys voting for the same. The guy I quoted said he's not online => he's not going to change. If we get 6 modkills we won't get a majority anyway, however if we don't that one vote might make a difference. In my opinion it's the only way to not screw up day1 for town, although it's probably still not enough.
To everyone reading, my vote means we have 4 on Edwin5, two more and we get him lynched. I would still like explanations/excuses for inactivity from Thnikkaman47, JoshKirby, Sknowman and jish17.
Also, I'll take this opportunity to FoS zany_001 tomorrow.
On September 29 2011 10:24 Toadesstern wrote: My point was that we're having serious trouble getting 6 votes on someone and every vote counts. If there's going to be 6 modkills and we got 3 votes on someone else it's still a wasted day because we don't get a lynch at all. Then I guess if that's going to happen we don't even have the chance to change that.
To sum it up it's something like this: We're pretty screwed right now with only 6 guys voting, however if 2 or three guys more show up we might get something done and even in that case it's going to be hard to get 6 guys voting for the same. The guy I quoted said he's not online => he's not going to change. If we get 6 modkills we won't get a majority anyway, however if we don't that one vote might make a difference. In my opinion it's the only way to not screw up day1 for town, although it's probably still not enough.
Six modkills = GG for town if all were VTs, if 1 was scum, then we're barely alive. two scum there means it's still a toss-up; but I see your point in removing as many mod-kills as possible by forcing people to bandwagon someone; I just don't think it's a very good idea to gain info on who's acting scummy; zany already seems to act like that to say the least.
On September 29 2011 10:24 Toadesstern wrote: My point was that we're having serious trouble getting 6 votes on someone and every vote counts. If there's going to be 6 modkills and we got 3 votes on someone else it's still a wasted day because we don't get a lynch at all. Then I guess if that's going to happen we don't even have the chance to change that.
To sum it up it's something like this: We're pretty screwed right now with only 6 guys voting, however if 2 or three guys more show up we might get something done and even in that case it's going to be hard to get 6 guys voting for the same. The guy I quoted said he's not online => he's not going to change. If we get 6 modkills we won't get a majority anyway, however if we don't that one vote might make a difference. In my opinion it's the only way to not screw up day1 for town, although it's probably still not enough.
Six modkills = GG for town if all were VTs, if 1 was scum, then we're barely alive. two scum there means it's still a toss-up; but I see your point in removing as many mod-kills as possible by forcing people to bandwagon someone; I just don't think it's a very good idea to gain info on who's acting scummy; zany already seems to act like that to say the least.
yeah, just came to my mind as well. The real problem here is that it's np for mafia to just act like they're town as well. I mean we got 6 guys voting, even if edwin was mafia they'd have no problem switching a couple votes on edwin because hell. At least that's what I'd do if I where mafia (talking about us 4 right now, obviously now I'd not get more votes on him if I where mafia) As mentioned we got pretty much zero info right now except for one statement that sounds stupid in a noob game. I might be doing this right now, just like you could or zany, knowing that 6 guys aren't here voting and there's probably not going to be a lynch on day 1.
So I am questioning this right now, because it makes it realy easy for mafia on day1 looking like they care about getting a lynch. Than again I can't think of something better right now. Surely giving up on day1 sounds no good to me as well.
On September 29 2011 10:24 Toadesstern wrote: My point was that we're having serious trouble getting 6 votes on someone and every vote counts. If there's going to be 6 modkills and we got 3 votes on someone else it's still a wasted day because we don't get a lynch at all. Then I guess if that's going to happen we don't even have the chance to change that.
To sum it up it's something like this: We're pretty screwed right now with only 6 guys voting, however if 2 or three guys more show up we might get something done and even in that case it's going to be hard to get 6 guys voting for the same. The guy I quoted said he's not online => he's not going to change. If we get 6 modkills we won't get a majority anyway, however if we don't that one vote might make a difference. In my opinion it's the only way to not screw up day1 for town, although it's probably still not enough.
Six modkills = GG for town if all were VTs, if 1 was scum, then we're barely alive. two scum there means it's still a toss-up; but I see your point in removing as many mod-kills as possible by forcing people to bandwagon someone; I just don't think it's a very good idea to gain info on who's acting scummy; zany already seems to act like that to say the least.
yeah, just came to my mind as well. The real problem here is that it's np for mafia to just act like they're town as well. I mean we got 6 guys voting, even if edwin was mafia they'd have no problem switching a couple votes on edwin because hell. At least that's what I'd do if I where mafia (talking about us 4 right now, obviously now I'd not get more votes on him if I where mafia) As mentioned we got pretty much zero info right now except for one statement that sounds stupid in a noob game. I might be doing this right now, just like you could or zany, knowing that 6 guys aren't here voting and there's probably not going to be a lynch on day 1.
So I am questioning this right now, because it makes it realy easy for mafia on day1 looking like they care about getting a lynch. Than again I can't think of something better right now. Surely giving up on day1 sounds no good to me as well.
You have a point that it looks like a scum trying to act pro-town, but if I were scum I wouldn't be calling out anyone on not being active and arguing that people trying to hide despite being able to read the thread/lurk are a better choice than a complete no-show as a policy lynch. In any case, at least you and rayn are making an effort to act for town, it just makes me question you for a moment on why you would deem the blatantly pro-town activity I've done as a scum trying to run the "obvious townie" play.
yeah I really was just talking about that vote-for-edwin-move out of context thinking it's a standard for both mafia and town right now. We'll see more after night post.
On September 29 2011 11:50 Toadesstern wrote: yeah I really was just talking about that vote-for-edwin-move out of context thinking it's a standard for both mafia and town right now. We'll see more after night post.
I just have a feeling I'm gonna get shanked by scum with what I'm doing, but if it forces them to kill me just so they aren't forced to reveal their play, then it gives us a LOT of info.
With 12 players alive, it is 7 to lynch. Only 3 people have voted and the day ends in 22 hours, and GMarshal and I wouldn't want to modkill anyone. (or would we... hehe) Please format your votes correctly or else they will not be on this list. I am ctrl-f-ing "##Vote"
If we still got 21 hours left voting for edwin probably wasn't a good idea, we might get enough people for a proper lynch. But well, let's see how many people show up Less modkills is always awesome I guess
On September 29 2011 10:15 Ciryandor wrote: Edwin5 hasn't even posted anywhere else, so I'd rather call him as absent than as lurking.
And SERIOUSLY, why are we going to jump on him? I would really recommend pushing on someone who we are sure has at least shown activity after the game started. Let the GM do the modkill on him if he isn't active.
I'll switch to Edwin only if you can convince me of why we're voting him off instead of letting a mod-kill happen.
I was voting him to get him post, that's why I also said said i won't be around here when the day ends (which was anyways true).
Wasn't the day supposed to end Thursday 5AM (CAT, +2 GMT)?
If the day really continues, we need to think about our voting more. Ciryandor, isn't it better to vote someone who's gonna be modkilled, than some random person, given that at least I have no clue who could be scum? People seriously need to post more, this way we are pretty sure gonna lynch a townie, mafia is gonna kill a townie over night, and when day 2 begins, we are in a pretty much same situation that we were in day 1, and there are 2 dead townies. :/
On September 29 2011 10:15 Ciryandor wrote: Edwin5 hasn't even posted anywhere else, so I'd rather call him as absent than as lurking.
And SERIOUSLY, why are we going to jump on him? I would really recommend pushing on someone who we are sure has at least shown activity after the game started. Let the GM do the modkill on him if he isn't active.
I'll switch to Edwin only if you can convince me of why we're voting him off instead of letting a mod-kill happen.
I was voting him to get him post, that's why I also said said i won't be around here when the day ends (which was anyways true).
Wasn't the day supposed to end Thursday 5AM (CAT, +2 GMT)?
If the day really continues, we need to think about our voting more. Ciryandor, isn't it better to vote someone who's gonna be modkilled, than some random person, given that at least I have no clue who could be scum? People seriously need to post more, this way we are pretty sure gonna lynch a townie, mafia is gonna kill a townie over night, and when day 2 begins, we are in a pretty much same situation that we were in day 1, and there are 2 dead townies. :/
It's better to vote a potentially active (i.e. someone who has at least shown forum activity since the game started) person if the votes threaten to put them onto the lynch threshold, because this would force a response from them. This way, we get information from them and we can still get an inactive either via a late swing or a modkill. One can always lynch someone under pressure if they crack and do scumslips.
And your reply screams scumslip, the sentences are awkward as hell to read anyway.
It's better to vote a potentially active (i.e. someone who has at least shown forum activity since the game started) person if the votes threaten to put them onto the lynch threshold, because this would force a response from them. This way, we get information from them and we can still get an inactive either via a late swing or a modkill. One can always lynch someone under pressure if they crack and do scumslips.
I agree, since lynching a player who will be mod-killed is like performing a no-lynch this round. In the worst (and likely) case, the inactive player is a townie. Then there are 3 mafia and 8 townies tomorrow night. If everything goes well for mafia, they can win after 2 day cycles. If we lynch an active player, then there are 3 mafia and 7 townies tomorrow night. If everything goes well for mafia, they still have to play 2 day cycles. Furthermore, the detective has a better chance of finding a mafioso since there are less people to consider, and the doctor has a greater chance of saving someone. The downsides to killing an active player are 1) If there's a doctor they get one extra chance to save in the worst-case scenario. The chance of succeeding in that save is small, though (1/6). 2) We might kill the doctor/detective, and revealing their role probably won't help them since in 2/3rds of the setups they're by themselves and will get killed during the night. There's at most a 2/11 chance of that happening, though.
Toadesstern is the only active player who's gotten a vote, so I'll vote for him this round. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE Toadesstern
yeah if this day continues voting for edwin is pretty stupid and voting for someone real is better because as mentioned edwin would be like a no lynch. The real reason for my edwin push wasn't the lynch at all. I was sitting there at 3 am thinking we got 2 people on fatesgod and everone else spreaded so we're not going to get a lynch anyway and I thought day 1 is gone anyway. So the edwin vote was to get some information, sure as mentioned it's np to vote for him as mafia as quoted earlier, because he is not participating until now but it may have produced errors from mafia. This is a noob game after all. Let's say we got 6 or 7 on edwin, he ends up being mafia and someone from mafia screws up and changes votes, which would be pretty awesome for us.
I though that this might be the only chance to get something out of our votes by than given that there were only 3 hours left, even if the chances to get this lucky are so slim, still better than having everone on a spreaded vote where mafia can do what they want and can't actually make a mistake.
This day one 72hours obviousy screws with this idea since we could get a normal lynch which is better. Think what you want about it, talk about it and discuss it. I will take a little nap and will contine reading in a few hours.
So to sum it up we got something from zany that sounds stupid in a beginners game and the just posted statement from JoshKirby . I mean really? we got 2 or 3 people who are trying to get some activity. Activity is good for town and you want to lynch someone active because he's active? I know that this is a beginners game but srsly, This is totally scum logic. They try to go for blues on day 1 which is going to be hard given there's so few town active, if they can't they're going for someone you gets the activity going because that's so valuable to town as well.
Right now the only reads in my opinion are on zany and josh, don't know if I forgot something or if my logic is flawed. I still think the post from zany could be a town-mistake, as could the josh post but I think joshs the bigger one. If we get a vote on one of those two I'm all about it and will change my vote in no time. If we get a vote on a lurker, fine too.
Also a simple statement what the votings should look like from gm or sinani would be awesome (just give an example cause right now there're so many mistakes) As mentioned a lot of people got a space in between those # and vote and copy&pasted. Also a lot of people only wrote unvote while unvote Player is required. At least that's the reason why zanys switch to edwin wasn't counted I think. So I'm not sure if joshs voting is correct, too, because he only has unvote without my name.
It's better to vote a potentially active (i.e. someone who has at least shown forum activity since the game started) person if the votes threaten to put them onto the lynch threshold, because this would force a response from them. This way, we get information from them and we can still get an inactive either via a late swing or a modkill. One can always lynch someone under pressure if they crack and do scumslips.
I agree, since lynching a player who will be mod-killed is like performing a no-lynch this round. In the worst (and likely) case, the inactive player is a townie. Then there are 3 mafia and 8 townies tomorrow night. If everything goes well for mafia, they can win after 2 day cycles. If we lynch an active player, then there are 3 mafia and 7 townies tomorrow night. If everything goes well for mafia, they still have to play 2 day cycles. Furthermore, the detective has a better chance of finding a mafioso since there are less people to consider, and the doctor has a greater chance of saving someone. The downsides to killing an active player are 1) If there's a doctor they get one extra chance to save in the worst-case scenario. The chance of succeeding in that save is small, though (1/6). 2) We might kill the doctor/detective, and revealing their role probably won't help them since in 2/3rds of the setups they're by themselves and will get killed during the night. There's at most a 2/11 chance of that happening, though.
Toadesstern is the only active player who's gotten a vote, so I'll vote for him this round. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE Toadesstern
Why not zany? What do you think of him anyway, given that he's the only real read in terms of voting we have really got? And do explain the ratios?
[b]GM: Are we presuming that since this is a 12 person game that option 2 in the role set-up is out of the question, as it is made for an 11 person game?
On September 29 2011 10:15 Ciryandor wrote: Edwin5 hasn't even posted anywhere else, so I'd rather call him as absent than as lurking.
And SERIOUSLY, why are we going to jump on him? I would really recommend pushing on someone who we are sure has at least shown activity after the game started. Let the GM do the modkill on him if he isn't active.
I'll switch to Edwin only if you can convince me of why we're voting him off instead of letting a mod-kill happen.
I was voting him to get him post, that's why I also said said i won't be around here when the day ends (which was anyways true).
Wasn't the day supposed to end Thursday 5AM (CAT, +2 GMT)?
If the day really continues, we need to think about our voting more. Ciryandor, isn't it better to vote someone who's gonna be modkilled, than some random person, given that at least I have no clue who could be scum? People seriously need to post more, this way we are pretty sure gonna lynch a townie, mafia is gonna kill a townie over night, and when day 2 begins, we are in a pretty much same situation that we were in day 1, and there are 2 dead townies. :/
It's better to vote a potentially active (i.e. someone who has at least shown forum activity since the game started) person if the votes threaten to put them onto the lynch threshold, because this would force a response from them. This way, we get information from them and we can still get an inactive either via a late swing or a modkill. One can always lynch someone under pressure if they crack and do scumslips.
And your reply screams scumslip, the sentences are awkward as hell to read anyway.
You are right. I wasn't thinking people would follow me in my Edwin vote, as i said i just wanted him to post at least something. That is also why i said, that if the day continues, we should think about our votes again (becouse he turned out to be inactive).
But yeah, basically what you said in the paragraph i bolded, is true. What i was thinking i agree is wrong.
It's better to vote a potentially active (i.e. someone who has at least shown forum activity since the game started) person if the votes threaten to put them onto the lynch threshold, because this would force a response from them. This way, we get information from them and we can still get an inactive either via a late swing or a modkill. One can always lynch someone under pressure if they crack and do scumslips.
I agree, since lynching a player who will be mod-killed is like performing a no-lynch this round. In the worst (and likely) case, the inactive player is a townie. Then there are 3 mafia and 8 townies tomorrow night. If everything goes well for mafia, they can win after 2 day cycles. If we lynch an active player, then there are 3 mafia and 7 townies tomorrow night. If everything goes well for mafia, they still have to play 2 day cycles. Furthermore, the detective has a better chance of finding a mafioso since there are less people to consider, and the doctor has a greater chance of saving someone. The downsides to killing an active player are 1) If there's a doctor they get one extra chance to save in the worst-case scenario. The chance of succeeding in that save is small, though (1/6). 2) We might kill the doctor/detective, and revealing their role probably won't help them since in 2/3rds of the setups they're by themselves and will get killed during the night. There's at most a 2/11 chance of that happening, though.
Toadesstern is the only active player who's gotten a vote, so I'll vote for him this round. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE Toadesstern
Why not zany? What do you think of him anyway, given that he's the only real read in terms of voting we have really got? And do explain the ratios?
I will vote on zany as well if we get something there, no problem, still got 11 hours to discuss this :p I think right now both zany and josh are equally "scummy" because both made no sense with what they said earlier. Zanys still lacking the answer but changed his vote, although with a wrong format. I still got the feeling this could have been a mistake and sure if he were the only one I would be all over him because that'd be all we got and we could not hold back. However we got that post from josh as well. But yeah, both sound silly. Either way, if there's not going to be a good damn explanation by those two I'm going to try to get both lynched, no matter in what order unless there's something that really screams scum from someone else.
With 12 players alive, it is 7 to lynch. I am being more lenient with the votes now, because of all the people yelling at me. But know the format for future reference. Also to remember to ##Unvote before you change your vote. Day 1 ends in 11 hours.
On September 30 2011 00:00 Ciryandor wrote: Why not zany? What do you think of him anyway, given that he's the only real read in terms of voting we have really got? And do explain the ratios?
GM: Are we presuming that since this is a 12 person game that option 2 in the role set-up is out of the question, as it is made for an 11 person game?
zany's suspicious, but nobody else has voted for him. Given the amount of activity it's easier to lynch Toadesstern than anyone else since someone's already voted for him. If people are willing to switch to zany I'll do so as well.
Ratios: If we kill an inactive player who's already going to get modkilled, then unless we luck out and Edwin5 is mafia (1/4 chance), we'll enter the night with 3 mafia and 8 town. I'll write this as (3, 8). In this case the doctor has a 1/10 chance of picking the right person to save, and the detective has a 3/10 chance to pick a mafia member. In the worst case town keeps lynching town. This is how that would play out. (3,8) (1/10 chance of save, 3/10 chance of finding mafia) ---> (3,7) (3/10 chance of lynching mafia) ---> (3,6) (1/8 chance of save, 3/8 chance of finding mafia) --> (3,5) (3/8 chance of lynching mafia) --> (3, 4) (1/6 chance of save, 3/7 chance of finding mafia) --> (3, 3) (mafia win) If we kill someone who is active, though, in the worst case we end up with 3 mafia and 7 town. (3, 7) (1/9 chance of save, 3/9 chance of finding mafia) --> (3,6) (3/9 chance of lynching mafia) --> (3,5) (1/7 chance of save, 3/7 chance of finding mafia) --> (3,4) (3/7 chance of lynching mafia) --> (3,3) (mafia win)
Therefore, in the worst possible case, town has better odds of saving, detecting, and lynching a mafioso while having the same number of days. If a doctor exists and you have faith in him, then a no-lynch could plausibly be the best choice.
I did not realize that the 1 doctor/1 detective was still feasible since there were originally 11 players in that setup. That may help out the detective from being lynched, but only in that scenario (which we have a 1/4 chance of being in).
[B]On September 29 2011 22:21 Toadesstern wrote: I mean really? we got 2 or 3 people who are trying to get some activity. Activity is good for town and you want to lynch someone active because he's active? I know that this is a beginners game but srsly, This is totally scum logic. They try to go for blues on day 1 which is going to be hard given there's so few town active, if they can't they're going for someone you gets the activity going because that's so valuable to town as well.
I explained why the odds are better for town (in the worst case) if you lynch someone who is active. I did not go into too much detail, and that's my fault, but it's not "scum logic," just math.
On September 29 2011 10:15 Ciryandor wrote: Edwin5 hasn't even posted anywhere else, so I'd rather call him as absent than as lurking.
And SERIOUSLY, why are we going to jump on him? I would really recommend pushing on someone who we are sure has at least shown activity after the game started. Let the GM do the modkill on him if he isn't active.
I'll switch to Edwin only if you can convince me of why we're voting him off instead of letting a mod-kill happen.
I was voting him to get him post, that's why I also said said i won't be around here when the day ends (which was anyways true).
Wasn't the day supposed to end Thursday 5AM (CAT, +2 GMT)?
If the day really continues, we need to think about our voting more. Ciryandor, isn't it better to vote someone who's gonna be modkilled, than some random person, given that at least I have no clue who could be scum? People seriously need to post more, this way we are pretty sure gonna lynch a townie, mafia is gonna kill a townie over night, and when day 2 begins, we are in a pretty much same situation that we were in day 1, and there are 2 dead townies. :/
It's better to vote a potentially active (i.e. someone who has at least shown forum activity since the game started) person if the votes threaten to put them onto the lynch threshold, because this would force a response from them. This way, we get information from them and we can still get an inactive either via a late swing or a modkill. One can always lynch someone under pressure if they crack and do scumslips.
And your reply screams scumslip, the sentences are awkward as hell to read anyway.
You are right. I wasn't thinking people would follow me in my Edwin vote, as i said i just wanted him to post at least something. That is also why i said, that if the day continues, we should think about our votes again (becouse he turned out to be inactive).
But yeah, basically what you said in the paragraph i bolded, is true. What i was thinking i agree is wrong.
Well, then I think we ought to really pressure zany for dodging the whole issue then. Still, from reading Josh's post, unless he replies to my questioning his talk on probabilties, I think he may know something we don't.
On September 29 2011 10:15 Ciryandor wrote: Edwin5 hasn't even posted anywhere else, so I'd rather call him as absent than as lurking.
And SERIOUSLY, why are we going to jump on him? I would really recommend pushing on someone who we are sure has at least shown activity after the game started. Let the GM do the modkill on him if he isn't active.
I'll switch to Edwin only if you can convince me of why we're voting him off instead of letting a mod-kill happen.
I was voting him to get him post, that's why I also said said i won't be around here when the day ends (which was anyways true).
Wasn't the day supposed to end Thursday 5AM (CAT, +2 GMT)?
If the day really continues, we need to think about our voting more. Ciryandor, isn't it better to vote someone who's gonna be modkilled, than some random person, given that at least I have no clue who could be scum? People seriously need to post more, this way we are pretty sure gonna lynch a townie, mafia is gonna kill a townie over night, and when day 2 begins, we are in a pretty much same situation that we were in day 1, and there are 2 dead townies. :/
It's better to vote a potentially active (i.e. someone who has at least shown forum activity since the game started) person if the votes threaten to put them onto the lynch threshold, because this would force a response from them. This way, we get information from them and we can still get an inactive either via a late swing or a modkill. One can always lynch someone under pressure if they crack and do scumslips.
And your reply screams scumslip, the sentences are awkward as hell to read anyway.
You are right. I wasn't thinking people would follow me in my Edwin vote, as i said i just wanted him to post at least something. That is also why i said, that if the day continues, we should think about our votes again (becouse he turned out to be inactive).
But yeah, basically what you said in the paragraph i bolded, is true. What i was thinking i agree is wrong.
Well, then I think we ought to really pressure zany for dodging the whole issue then. Still, from reading Josh's post, unless he replies to my questioning his talk on probabilties, I think he may know something we don't.
##Vote zany_001
exactly my though. So I think he's just being stupid right here, switching to zany as well
##UNVOTE JoshKirby ##VOTE zany_001
For the probabilities: Yeah that sounds legit but really isn't of course we get a higher chance to get a safe or a good dt check if few townies are alive and a lot scum are. Hell if there'd be 5 townies alive and 3 scum it would be a 3 out of 8 chance to check a scum and a 1 out of 5 chance to get a nice safe. Still you probably won't suggest to kill townies just to get better safe/check rates. Surely that's not what you're saying, but it's what it comes down to if you think through what you just said. Also, we don't even know if we got a medic and/or a dt, at least I don't. I know what you want to say with your math and the math behind it may be right, but it's not helping town to get a good safe/check ratio because if town is in that situation the game is either over right away or is 1 day away from being over. The only reason to vote for someone that is active in this thread is a scum read. Also note that "active" is not to be meant as "posting at all", but as "posting quite a bit", while lurking is more of a "yeah posted a bit but not really something" and being absend is having no posts at all. So we should first of all try to get a red. Obviously it's hard to get a good read on day1, especially with so few discussions (active or lurking) If that's not going to happen we probably should go after someone who we think might be scum. Could be wrong, but still a chance (active or lurking). If that's not going to happen we probably should go and try to kill a lurker, the chances to hit a red are way higher that way (only lurking) If that's not going to happen a push on someone for information might still get us something.
That's basicly my thought process right here. I don't think the read on zany or you is clear but it's something, so right now I'm going for the 2nd scenario while you are going for something thats on the bottom of my list. You're trying to get a lynch for information although I'm active.
my vote for Toadesstern was to get him join us, which he has. I mentioned zany earlier about his half assed clue thing which did strike as an odd post more fluff then anything (scum tell.) Then he joins the kill Edwin group for no real reason other then to kill anyone. The kill edwin group grew rather fast and I think it was mostly mafia trying to blend in and pick off an easy kill without drawing to much attention. Zany still hasnt responded to anything really. So I would like to hear thoughts ans suspicions on what has been going on in the game so far. Till then he has my vote.
Okay, just read through Josh's post, he's got a point on the mathematical end about what I was trying to push, where we should be voting for people who either are trying to evade explaining their vote, or are being inactive in the game but have read through the thread.
This is my first time playing mafia but I have played werewolf a few times so I am not a total newb.
@raynpelikoneet I think there is an advantage personally playing with someone before because you have actually interacted and not read the manuscript of what was said. However we are getting sidetracked.
On September 27 2011 22:55 zany_001 wrote: Assuming this game has clues (the OP seems to imply it may or may not have clues?)There are 17 red words in the day post, and one of the players is jish17.
AAAND that's about all I could find, so for now, ##Vote: jish17 hopefully some other clues are found, I doubt i'm very good at clue analysis.
zany implies there are clues in a half assed way, either he is a stupid town wanting to get us to start talking about nonexistent clues or he is a mafia looking to side track us with stupid nonexistent clues. I am going to be watching him more closely.
You are right about clues, however you are not right about the advantage. The player who is more experienced, or lets' say better, will get an advantage. Not "everyone who have been in a same game with someone". That applies to everyone. Argue about it if you will. I'm happy to.
Also, why are you so curious about the "kill Edwin group"? Isn't it obvious what that was about?
On September 30 2011 04:17 Zanfada wrote: ##UNVOTE: Toadesstern ##VOTE: zany_001
my vote for Toadesstern was to get him join us, which he has. I mentioned zany earlier about his half assed clue thing which did strike as an odd post more fluff then anything (scum tell.) Then he joins the kill Edwin group for no real reason other then to kill anyone. The kill edwin group grew rather fast and I think it was mostly mafia trying to blend in and pick off an easy kill without drawing to much attention. Zany still hasnt responded to anything really. So I would like to hear thoughts ans suspicions on what has been going on in the game so far. Till then he has my vote.
This was about the "kill edwin group" lol, fail quote FTW..
On September 30 2011 01:58 Toadesstern wrote: For the probabilities: Yeah that sounds legit but really isn't of course we get a higher chance to get a safe or a good dt check if few townies are alive and a lot scum are. Hell if there'd be 5 townies alive and 3 scum it would be a 3 out of 8 chance to check a scum and a 1 out of 5 chance to get a nice safe. Still you probably won't suggest to kill townies just to get better safe/check rates. Surely that's not what you're saying, but it's what it comes down to if you think through what you just said.
I'm not saying that we kill townies on purpose. Think of it this way: 1. We can only kill mafia by lynching them. 2. If we vote for someone who is inactive (i.e. going to get modkilled), then we've basically lynched nobody. In the worst case we get 2 guaranteed lynchings. If the doctor saves, we get 3. 3. If we vote for someone who isn't going to get modkilled, then we have a chance of lynching a mafioso (unless they're all inactive, in which case we win anyway). In the worst case we still get 2 more guaranteed lynchings, so we don't have to rely on a save to get a 3rd chance on lynching a mafia member. 4. Unless you're risky it's better to lynch someone who won't get modkilled.
On September 30 2011 01:58 Toadesstern wrote: Also note that "active" is not to be meant as "posting at all", but as "posting quite a bit", while lurking is more of a "yeah posted a bit but not really something" and being absend is having no posts at all.
I meant "inactive" as in "will be modkilled by the end of the day." This is probably the source of the confusion.
On September 30 2011 01:58 Toadesstern wrote: If that's not going to happen we probably should go and try to kill a lurker, the chances to hit a red are way higher that way (only lurking)
I don't see how this true. There are many different ways to play a mafioso, and some require a lot of activity. It may be useful to boost participation, however.
On September 30 2011 01:19 JoshKirby wrote: zany's suspicious, but nobody else has voted for him. Given the amount of activity it's easier to lynch Toadesstern than anyone else since someone's already voted for him. If people are willing to switch to zany I'll do so as well.
so basicly, if we get a lynch it won't be a mafia lynch because we need 7, We got 9 guys voting right now and one of them is zany who won't vote for himself, so that makes a maximum of 8. Obviously mafia won't vote for zany if he's red => we don't get 7 However if zany turns out to be green mafia won't have a problem lynching him => we might get 7 if the rest gets active within 60 mins.
It was a crazy day, with random accusations all over. Town had almost gotten someone lynched, but then the unexpected happened--The sun went backwards half the distance it had gone that day. There was an outrage among the few who had survived the dragon, but there was no one to complain to, so they just continued as if nothing had happened. However, they still couldn't agree on anyone. They were retiring to their beds, but then lightning struck and killed the three town members who had stayed home all day, playing BGH with each other over LAN (the dragon had killed Battle.net, so they had to play LAN, but there is no LAN in SC2).
Sknowman the townie has been modkilled. edwin5 the townie has been modkilled. FatesGod the townie has been modkilled.
Night ends in 24 hours, please submit your actions to me AND GMarshal.
just got a call that there's going to be a spontaneous lanparty with a couple of friends where I'm from. Soooooo, got to go. Won't be arround for the daychange and will be back tomorrow european time. Probably something around 11am I guess.
I think I'll have internet and probably will check once or twice today out of curiosity but won't post something. However pms are fine (from our two hosts) if somethings happening and I will check them a couple of times, just not f5-ing all night.
I don't want to play any more mafia games on TL becAuse of my worst ever reasoned modkill on LoTR mafia. I'm a mafia goon, and mod's should kill me. THX!
Daypost is coming early because I'm about to be busy.
Day 2
It was a dark and stormy night. Ciryandor was at home alone and he was assaulted by a cloaked man. But his killer had some regrets. He left a note on the porch saying: It was me, raynpelikoneet.
Ciryandor the townie has died. raynpelikoneet the goon has been modkilled.
On October 01 2011 10:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't want to play any more mafia games on TL becAuse of my worst ever reasoned modkill on LoTR mafia. I'm a mafia goon, and mod's should kill me. THX!
You can consider yourself permabanned from my games for deliberate sabotage of your winconditon, and I will be requesting at least a three game ban for you, probably more. That was a dick move and utterly unacceptable. If you no longer wish to play you replace out, you NEVER get yourself deliberately modkilled.
ok town, day post is on the way, I'm just already talking since there's not going to be something else happening.
Rayne is mafia, which was obvious and mentioned before. Nothing new here but nice to get a "lynch" for free. Zane is still kinda weird but our best guess so far. I thought his excuse might be correct but with raynes post and rayne flipping red zane pretty much is mafia. Not as sure as rayne was but still our best guess. Rayne did not vote for him. I don't know why, maybe he was scared that we might get enough people to lynch zane although we had quite an activity problem. If Zane was green, rayne would not have had a problem voting and lynching him. After all it would be another townie kill for free for mafia. So we need to see this scum dead. There is just no point in not wanting zane to die as a mafia unless he's red aswell, no matter what zane is trying to make you think.
That's 2 almost 100% safe red calls here. I'm not sure who's the third, could be a couple of guys but zane is our best call right now and we need everyone to vote him and stop being inactive!
On October 01 2011 11:00 Curu wrote: Sorry about things from my game spilling over GMan. I'll let you handle the ban situation since it was your game he shat on.
250% not your fault, don't worry about it. I'll handle the banning on my end.
I'm generally an easy going guy, but there is one thing I do not tolerate, and that is cheaters.
Anyway, enough cluttering the thread, if anyone wants to discuss this further please PM me.
On October 01 2011 12:22 Toadesstern wrote: can we already vote although the daypost isn't up yet? :p
##VOTE zany_001
Not gonna lie, there needs to be a miracle to make me stop voting for zany
Dude you backstabber, we never agreed to that in the quicktopic. You shouldn't start a plan before everyone's onboard with it like that. You and ray are trying for a mafia loss aren't you...talk about sabotaging win conditions. I'm disgusted with the way my team behaved in this mafia game, both ray and toad were constantly bickering and it was an unpleasant first game. GG
GMarshal, next time please make sure you remove the brackets in the OP, that seriously did confuse me.
wat? Are you trying to tell me I'm your mafia buddy along with ray?
Kinda funny. If that was to be true I would be sabotating the game, as you stated. Probably you too if that's right because you're telling everyone I'm mafia. In that case the two of us will be modkilled.
If you're trying to get a strange defence here that is a complete lie what you said is not true and therefore neither you nore I will be modkilled.
Let's see if we both get modkilled, shall we? :p
I mean, it is a funny and clever thought of you since you're not getting out of this alive, but it got that one little flaw I just poined out, still you got some balls to go for it :p
so, lets see, you *just* saw someone modkilled for claiming mafia. So you thought it would be a good idea to do the same. Right now I am about to burst a blood vessel. So, I'm going to do the following. I'm not modkilling anyone. This stops the "everyone claim mafia, this does not modkill townies", it also leaves you people to figure out things by behavioral analysis, you know the whole point of playing mafia?
Rest assured I will be handing out bans like fucking candy when this shitstorm is over.
oh and btw I never thought that clue thing is a scum tell. At least it did not appear to be bullshit-talking on purpose and I honestly thought it was a mistake, which could have happend to both town and scum. That's why I did not want to lynch you on day1 but everyone else went for you and I had to join. But since raynes scum which was clear since day1 you got to be scum too, at least about 95% while the other 5% are occur if raynes a mafia that does not want to kill a townie. Oh and I would have made everyone lynch him today and forget about you if it wasn't for the modkill
Do you mind taking your discussion of paradoxical cats somewhere else please? This game is enough of a mess without smurfs coming in to chat about nonsense. Thanks.
On October 01 2011 13:01 GMarshal wrote: so, lets see, you *just* saw someone modkilled for claiming mafia. So you thought it would be a good idea to do the same. Right now I am about to burst a blood vessel. So, I'm going to do the following. I'm not modkilling anyone. This stops the "everyone claim mafia, this does not modkill townies", it also leaves you people to figure out things by behavioral analysis, you know the whole point of playing mafia?
Rest assured I will be handing out bans like fucking candy when this shitstorm is over.
...a mafia game without role claims is no mafia game at all.
@toad you're honestly trying to act like a townie? Give it up man, it's gg for mafia. May as well reveal your role now, it's not like you're going to gain any trust by saying you're a townie.
On October 01 2011 13:01 GMarshal wrote: so, lets see, you *just* saw someone modkilled for claiming mafia. So you thought it would be a good idea to do the same. Right now I am about to burst a blood vessel. So, I'm going to do the following. I'm not modkilling anyone. This stops the "everyone claim mafia, this does not modkill townies", it also leaves you people to figure out things by behavioral analysis, you know the whole point of playing mafia?
Rest assured I will be handing out bans like fucking candy when this shitstorm is over.
...a mafia game without role claims is no mafia game at all.
Are you saying it forwards Mafia's win condition when they claim?
btw, we could already start a little discussion about who might be the third guy. You know, use the time we got right now rather than wait until mafia killed someone and the knowledge that guy had because of a good analysis is lost because he didn't want to be killed by mafia this night and therefore lurked...
I would like to know why Thnikkaman47 and FranzP did not vote for zany on day1. Clearly he and rayne are mafia. Rayne didn't vote for him to safe him because he was scared we could get a majority and therefore we could have lynched zany.
What was your reasoning behind NOT voting for zany. You know, not voting for a mafia looks kinda mafia but obviously there's only three so I'd like to hear what you've got to say.
And the rest of you guys, start talking I don't want mafia to have an easy time lurking since every townie is lurking as well. We got this game if we get zany lynched today and you guys start posting. If this goes on the lynch on day3 could become a townlynch if everyones hiding makeing it hard to get a proper read.
oh and just to add it: We got 3 votes on zany right now, we are 12-5 guys alive = 7 guys alive which means we need 4 to get a lynch => we need one more.
Zany has obviously not voted and won't vote for him so it's up to Thnikkaman47, jish17 or FranzP to get us one more vote.
Jish probably isn't mafia as he pushed for rayne as well so I guess we can count him as town and unless he went inactive will give us the needed vote. Thnikkaman and FranzP both seem to be scummy while only one can be mafia.
oh screw this guys... if noone else is posting I'm out until the next day/night change.
Just a last note. We probably don't have a medic. If we had one Ciryandor wouldn't be dead, so don't count on that one. So it's either a dt for us who checked someone green (really?...) and therefore is not giving any clues or mafia's got a roleblocker and we're not having a single blue, or the last possibility: We do have a dt but he's not posting at all to cover and not get killed by mafia until he got a red check and mafia's just 3 goons.
Given that noone said he got roleblocked last night I'm guessing we got a lurking dt in town. If that's correct get a check on either Thnikkaman47 or FranzP and we win after the zany lynch.
who's still alive? Really thought the third's going to be either thnikkaman47 or FranzP. Would be awesome if we could get an update on page 1 :p
That's kinda stupid. Mafia probably will kill someone tonight until we got a hero medic. That way it is 2 town 1 mafia and we have to get a 100% sure mafia lynch or we're dead. Just saying :p
Oh btw, since there seems to be no roleblocker, we have to have a medic or a dt and I'm just going to repeat what I said earlier:
Medic try to save who you think is the most likely to get killed by mafia. DT try to stay low, don't let you get killed by mafia and just check the guy and kill him on day3.
Don't know which of those 2 is what we got but we one should be right :p
Medic or DT would have flipped blue instead of green right?
On October 03 2011 22:45 Toadesstern wrote: Oh btw, since there seems to be no roleblocker, we have to have a medic or a dt and I'm just going to repeat what I said earlier:
Medic try to save who you think is the most likely to get killed by mafia. DT try to stay low, don't let you get killed by mafia and just check the guy and kill him on day3.
Don't know which of those 2 is what we got but we one should be right :p
Medic or DT would have flipped blue instead of green right?
yes, all green flips are Vanilla Townies
Medics would flip GMarshal the Medic has been brutally stabbed or GMarshal the Detective has drowned in paperwork
Ok let's see what we can get out of a thread that has literally nothing... going to change vote-formates, to not screw with hosts strg+f.
First of all: All four of us voted for edwin on day 1 I think (did not check that actually), switched to zany on day 1.5 and voted for zany on day 2. So nothing there to be found.
I'm going to make 3 major spoilers. One for each of you to get things organized. First spoiler is stuff about zanfa, second one stuff about josh, third one is stuff about jish. Easy isn't it? -------------Zanfa------ + Show Spoiler +
1)
On September 30 2011 08:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oh, and i'm going for Zanfada tonight..
*vote* Zanfada
confirmed mafia voted for zanfada. Could be nothing as he should know that we're not going to get a lynch on Zanfada but I don't think he got the balls to post that if zanfas was red all along. Could be a tell that zanfada is green but noting confirmed.
On September 13 2011 10:51 Toadesstern wrote: I just reread the set-ups and I'm not sure if that thing is correct or a typo so I'll quote:
Set Up: 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 7 Town, 1 Medic, 1 Detective 1 Mafia Role Blocker, 2 Mafia Goons, 9 Town 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Medic, 8 Town. 3 Mafia Goons, 1 Detective, 8 Town.
Those 2 bottom ones look perfectly "balanced " between each other, 3 goons vs either 1medi+8 town OR 3 goons vs 1 dt+8 town. Looks good, 3 red, both times the same vs 8green+1blue on both. However the first 2 are kinda crazy if you ask me. It's either mafia vs 7 town + 1medic + 1dt or it's mafia vs 9 towns. So basicly, while red teams stays exactly the same again, town might play with 7 greens and 2 blues or with no blues at all.
This is my first ever mafia so I don't know if I'm talking bullshit right now, I just read it once again to get a view thougths about it and it seems strange to me so I'm asking about it. That one option is basicly just the same, except that it seems to be "weaker" in every possible aspect Is there a reason for this? For example, take the 2nd one, if red turns out to be 3 guys playing for the first time, while town got all of those 2nd, or 3rd time players (i.e "buffin red 'cause they're 'bunch of noobs")? Or ist it a type and the second one needs to be buffed?
from that post it would seem that Toadesstern cares about the game yet he hasn't posted at all. It seems like he is either not caring/playing or not contributing/lurkering
*vote* Toadesstern
*vote* Toadesstern
Totally legit. I haven't made a single post at that point of time. An awesome analysis and really pro town.
3)
On September 30 2011 04:17 Zanfada wrote: *unvote*: Toadesstern *vote*: zany_001
my vote for Toadesstern was to get him join us, which he has. I mentioned zany earlier about his half assed clue thing which did strike as an odd post more fluff then anything (scum tell.) Then he joins the kill Edwin group for no real reason other then to kill anyone. The kill edwin group grew rather fast and I think it was mostly mafia trying to blend in and pick off an easy kill without drawing to much attention. Zany still hasnt responded to anything really. So I would like to hear thoughts ans suspicions on what has been going on in the game so far. Till then he has my vote.
Again, could be a smart mafia seeing that his vote on zany is not going to matter but this really looks like town. The zany vote could have happened on day1 with a bit luck and a possible-modkill getting active on the last voting day. So if he's mafia he got balls of steel and showed us an awesome game :p
4)
On September 28 2011 03:30 Zanfada wrote: Hi all,
This is my first time playing mafia but I have played werewolf a few times so I am not a total newb.
@raynpelikoneet I think there is an advantage personally playing with someone before because you have actually interacted and not read the manuscript of what was said. However we are getting sidetracked.
On September 27 2011 22:55 zany_001 wrote: Assuming this game has clues (the OP seems to imply it may or may not have clues?)There are 17 red words in the day post, and one of the players is jish17.
AAAND that's about all I could find, so for now, *vote*: jish17 hopefully some other clues are found, I doubt i'm very good at clue analysis.
zany implies there are clues in a half assed way, either he is a stupid town wanting to get us to start talking about nonexistent clues or he is a mafia looking to side track us with stupid nonexistent clues. I am going to be watching him more closely.
Again a nice post from Zanfa. He says he's going to have an eye on zany and that could easily mean someone else is wondering what zany's doing as well. So another post that sounds like town from zanfa.
1) I still got a grudge on Josh for trying to get a lynch on me with this stupid math thingy which was wrong (except for the part "let's kill someone who's not getting modkilled). As far as I am concerned I looked preeeeeetty much town at that point, like a 90% sure town and still he went for me for the sake of getting a lynch. He could easily go for zany in the first place (as we had a vote on him already I think) or established something on his own, like I did with my edwin vote to get at least a bit of information out of voting behaviors rather than the actual lynch itself as it was a modkill-lynch. So he still looks kind of scummy to me. I totally ignored it since going for zany+rayne was way easier and afterwards just going for whoever did not vote for them (thnika and franzp) sounded way more scummy. So he's back on my radar for that post.
2) Jish and Josh both were the last to switch to zany on day1. That could be a mafia waiting to see how many votes he got and decide whether it's safe to vote zany or not.
On September 30 2011 10:06 jish17 wrote: You rebel scum! *vote* zany_001
Actually I don't know what that was meant to be. When he said "you rebel scum" was he talking about zany because of his vote or was he talking about raynes scumslip just one post above him? If it was meant to be a "rayne, you rebel scum" it sounds green, if it was directed towards zany it's nothing, really.
2) Jish and Josh both were the last to switch to zany on day1. That could be a mafia waiting to see how many votes he got and decide whether it's safe to vote zany or not.
3)
On October 02 2011 11:56 jish17 wrote: Pretty obvious...
##Vote: zany_001
jish being last to vote for zany. Also sounds kinda frustrated in my opinion, could be about how stupid this game is as well... (see what I did here ? :p )
4)
On September 27 2011 22:55 zany_001 wrote: Assuming this game has clues (the OP seems to imply it may or may not have clues?)There are 17 red words in the day post, and one of the players is jish17.
*vote* jish17 hopefully some other clues are found, I doubt i'm very good at clue analysis.
Probably one of the more important quotes. It's not about the clue thing but about his vote! He voted for jish. Now we all know zany turned out to be red and mafia wants town to get a town-lynch. Why would he (a confirmed mafia!) push for jish when he's actually red? That either makes no sense or it was a brilliant set up by mafia. You know, zany could have known all along there where no clues, once gm told him there are no clues -> he was sure noone would follow him on a vote -> he can switch np and have his mafia buddy preeeeetty safed for all game unless he screwes up. Not gonna lie, I'm going with the easier explanation, the first one which means jish looks to be town.
So that's about it. One of us is going to die tonight unless we got the hero-medic and no dt. I want you at least to read it and make up your mind.
In my opnion Zanfa and I am town 99%. That leaves jish and josh. All I got from josh is that one math post that sounds stupid. Jish on the other hand has multiple things that make him look a little scummy. I'm not sure if I'm right here but I think it's all we got here. If I die tonight and flip green you guys know what I said was an honest interpretation and no mafia shit trying to get you vote one someone else. If you want to know if I'm town or mafia before I flip, analyse what I said so far... I'm not going to do that for you as well. Knowing what I just posted I might as well make a last statement about the activity. Although it was very low all the way through. Jish turned out to post the fewest out of us 4. Now I did a hell lot of posts to get you guys talking which pretty much failed. Josh and zanfa both did a couple of posts, while zanfas turned out to be really good and joshs ... well I don't know could have been helpful it just turned out he wanted to lynch me and maybe that's why I don't like those because I know for sure they're wrong but maybe it makes sense from another perspective. Well and jish just posted pretty much nothing except his votes. Both zanfas and josh votes turned out to be a vote + explanation, at least a couple of lines. Now jishs posts most times (it's kinda hard to find any at all) turned out to be a one-liner or a vote plus a one-liner.
According to my search that's actually all he ever said:+ Show Spoiler +
On September 30 2011 10:06 jish17 wrote: You rebel scum! ##Vote: zany_001
On October 02 2011 11:56 jish17 wrote: Pretty obvious...
##Vote: zany_001
So my final conclusion: - I know I am town ( :p ) - I think Zanfa is town 99% and I'm not 100% sure about those other 2 guys
- Jish got one read that makes him look pretty green to me. And since it's from a dead mafia that's a pretty heavy one. But he looks way more scummy with everything else and lurking hardcore.
- Josh looks a little scummy to me but got nothing that really makes him look green.
Guess one of those 2 is our medic/dt while the other guy is mafia and it's up to the two guys remaining to try and figure it out where my analysis was wrong or incomplete. Zanfa totally could be our medic/dt as well since noone really postet a lot but in that scenario it's either jishs townplay or joshs townplay that ended up hurting town the most. So guys go ahead and claim detective or medic like 1 hour before the night/day change with a list of what you did night 1 and night 2! If you're a medic I want to know why the fuck you did not protect cyri on night1. And no, "I was roleblocked" is not a plausible excuse because you would have had to tell us you got roleblocked that day. You could easily have made it look like you're a VT who got roleblocked out of the blue (or perhaps red :p ).
I'm going to bed now. Lets hope we see tomorrow again :p
If I am killed tonight I figured I would give me thoughts.
First is Toadesstern, A slow start to the game but after that he has leading the discussion and kept the town moving forward. I have a hard time thinking he is mafia but in his last post he posted nothing but good things about me which from other games like this that I have played usually means they are mafia trying to befriend a town. Or he just believes (rightfully so) that I am town.
Next is JoshKirby, He posted a lot of numerical analysis which is easy for mafia to hide behind. I see the posts more as a way to say something that might be helpful. I am leaning town on him but I would like to see what he thinks of everyone who is left.
Finally we have jish17; He hasn't said anything besides voting for zany twice. Also Zany did his stupid clue thing towards jish and that was obviously not going to get anyone voting for jish keeping him safe. Also
On September 30 2011 10:06 jish17 wrote: You rebel scum! ##Vote: zany_001
Rebel scum is just standing out really weird to me and has been for the last couple of days.
My read on jish is the same as toad's but that is because he has posted 2 lines and the only vote his way was a retarded one.
Right now I think jish is the most likely to be mafia and that Josh is most likely town. With Toad falling in between them.
On October 04 2011 07:32 Toadesstern wrote: 1) I still got a grudge on Josh for trying to get a lynch on me with this stupid math thingy which was wrong (except for the part "let's kill someone who's not getting modkilled).
It could be wrong in some way, but Toadesstern never gave a good reason why. Toadesstern posted that it was wrong because that would mean that town should keep lynching townies. The post actually said that, in the worst case, we'd keep lynching townies (on accident), and that we'd have a better chance of getting out of the worst case if we lynched somebody who wasn't going to get modkilled.
On October 04 2011 07:32 Toadesstern wrote: As far as I am concerned I looked preeeeeetty much town at that point, like a 90% sure town and still he went for me for the sake of getting a lynch. He could easily go for zany in the first place (as we had a vote on him already I think) or established something on his own, like I did with my edwin vote to get at least a bit of information out of voting behaviors rather than the actual lynch itself as it was a modkill-lynch.
1) Unless you do something weird like zany then "looking like town" on the first day is meaningless. Mafia wants to look like town too, and there's very little information to call their bluff. 2) zany did not have a vote for him. A few posts above my vote was the following:
On September 29 2011 14:14 sinani206 wrote:
Day 1 Votecount
jish17 (1) zany_001
Toadesstern (1) Zanfada
Sknowman (1) FranzP
Followed by two more votes for Ediwn5. There were also a couple votes for Edwin5 above that post which didn't get recorded. 3) I said the reason why I voted for Toadesstern in the same post:
On September 29 2011 19:39 JoshKirby wrote: Toadesstern is the only active player who's gotten a vote, so I'll vote for him this round.
On October 04 2011 07:32 Toadesstern wrote: 2) Jish and Josh both were the last to switch to zany on day1. That could be a mafia waiting to see how many votes he got and decide whether it's safe to vote zany or not.
This is reasonable. However, I stated that I would vote for zany if people would actually vote for him (so that we could lynch a player who wouldn't be modkilled), and I ended up voting for him in the same day. It's a coincidence that I ended up switching after another person did.
On October 04 2011 07:32 Toadesstern wrote: In my opnion Zanfa and I am town 99%.
This makes me think that Toadesstern inspected Zanfada and found he was clean, but didn't want to say it so that the mafia wouldn't target him. If that's true, then jish17 has to be mafia. We don't have a lot of information on him except that he voted for zany twice, so I can't tell what he is. There's almost certainly no roleblocker (because no one claimed to be roleblocked yesterday), so we probably have no doctor. That would mean that we must lynch somebody today. I'm voting for jish17 unless he can convince me otherwise.
On October 04 2011 13:31 jish17 wrote: If I was mafia why would zany who we know is mafia push so hard for me to be lynched on day one? That doesn't really make sense.
This is pretty confusing, but zany did a lot of weird things. What are your thoughts on the current situation, jish17?
I agree with josh's thinking. Toadesstern would have checked out zanfada and found him a townie. But Josh. I think your looking pretty scummy, Trying to get me lynched when like I said before. If I was mafia why would zany push so hard to get me lynched on day 1. If toadestern checked out zanfada that leaves you and me. And I know I'm town so ur the scum.
I don't know why zany pushed for you (or why he did most of his actions), but if Toadesstern checked Zanfada and found that he was clean, then since I'm town you have to be mafia. It's up to Zanfada to decide now.
Jish, I am leaning towards voting for you. You have not said much the whole game. Infact you only said 4 lines in the first 2 days, why talk so little? It seems like scum lurking to me and unless you make a good argument vs Josh I am voting for you, Jish.
Because I'm in a different time zone maybe? By the time I'm actually awake there was nothing to say. On day one I'd already stopped being targeted so there was no need to defend myself. Just vote. Josh has done some pretty good scum lurking if u ask me. If he is mafia all he has to do is get rid of me or zanfada. And he is clutching at straws by trying to pin it on me. How can I be mafia when I was the first person targeted for lynching by known scum? If I was mafia why would they try and make it so much easier for town to win by lynching one of there own day 1. They wouldn't it doesn't make sense.
On October 05 2011 09:18 jish17 wrote:. Josh has done some pretty good scum lurking if u ask me.
Please elaborate.
On October 05 2011 09:18 jish17 wrote: How can I be mafia when I was the first person targeted for lynching by known scum? If I was mafia why would they try and make it so much easier for town to win by lynching one of there own day 1. They wouldn't it doesn't make sense.
It'd be odd, but definitely possible. A couple scenarios: 1) Knowing that he'll be called out for using "clues," zany uses a clue to accuse you, sacrificing himself in order to make one of the mafia members look like a guaranteed townie. 2) zany is a troll player who simply likes causing havoc in the games he plays. The post where he accuses Toadesstern of being mafia could support this.
The wide range of strategies mafia can use is why it's very difficult to win when there's no information from a doctor/detective.
I haven't got any good arguments because I'm a generic townie and I'm completely in the dark. But whatever. Vote for me and mafia will win. Simple as that.
I want to apologize for the huge clusterfuck this game turned out to be, sorry for the 5 or so people who cared, I sincerely hope your next game goes better than this.
Bans will be handed out as soon as flamewheel posts the new ban list. As promised I will be handing them out like candy. Please take all ban discussion to the ban thread.
I should note my role claiming mafia was intentional and calculated; it was most probable that I would be lynched anyway (assuming active town lol) so I decide to go out and take toad with me. Rayn pulling out like that messed things up and I thought it would have been over without risky attempts like mine; plus me calling mafia drew suspicion away from josh, what little there was.
Rayn gave you two away when he attacked me after I voted for you on day one. I was 40/60 on Josh and Jish. I wish either would have talked a bit more so I could judge them better.
On October 06 2011 12:11 GMarshal wrote: I want to apologize for the huge clusterfuck this game turned out to be, sorry for the 5 or so people who cared, I sincerely hope your next game goes better than this.
Bans will be handed out as soon as flamewheel posts the new ban list. As promised I will be handing them out like candy. Please take all ban discussion to the ban thread.
Well, one can really blame it on player inactivity as well, but the Vote thing and inadvertent mod-kills didn't help.
Seeing the Mafia QT, I'm not surprised I got killed on Day 1. zany was dead anyway, Rayn was a bit too eager to push him, but I didn't have a good idea who the third guy was yet; but the way Josh pushed jish a bit too hard on the last day would have made me think if I was in Zanfada's position. Jish also screwed up, he could have made a more vigorous argument for Josh being scum, knowing Zanfada was a clear from Toad's analysis. My fault is that I was too obvious as pro-town, but getting killed would have alerted any active/lurking townie to having no Medic.
On October 05 2011 09:18 jish17 wrote: How can I be mafia when I was the first person targeted for lynching by known scum? If I was mafia why would they try and make it so much easier for town to win by lynching one of there own day 1. They wouldn't it doesn't make sense.
It'd be odd, but definitely possible. A couple scenarios: 1) Knowing that he'll be called out for using "clues," zany uses a clue to accuse you, sacrificing himself in order to make one of the mafia members look like a guaranteed townie. 2) zany is a troll player who simply likes causing havoc in the games he plays. The post where he accuses Toadesstern of being mafia could support this.
The wide range of strategies mafia can use is why it's very difficult to win when there's no information from a doctor/detective.
Just realized on re-reading this post that this was a hardcore scum-tell. Why would Josh know zany's play?!
On October 06 2011 13:18 zany_001 wrote: Yuss gg all, sorta.
I should note my role claiming mafia was intentional and calculated; it was most probable that I would be lynched anyway (assuming active town lol) so I decide to go out and take toad with me. Rayn pulling out like that messed things up and I thought it would have been over without risky attempts like mine; plus me calling mafia drew suspicion away from josh, what little there was.
Don't *ever* roleclaim mafia, you can fake dt or something, but claiming mafia is not playing to win, because it guarantees you will be lynched. Especially don't claim mafai 2 hours into day 2 when you can still divert the lynch -__-
On October 06 2011 13:18 zany_001 wrote: Yuss gg all, sorta.
I should note my role claiming mafia was intentional and calculated; it was most probable that I would be lynched anyway (assuming active town lol) so I decide to go out and take toad with me. Rayn pulling out like that messed things up and I thought it would have been over without risky attempts like mine; plus me calling mafia drew suspicion away from josh, what little there was.
I got to agree here about the mafia claiming. He was dead anyway and nothing he could have said could have changed that. Maybe he should not have said it but it was not MEANT to be "cheating" ruining a game because I believe him when he says that he thoughts he's 99% dead. And even if there's only a 10% chance to get a townie as well, that's probably better than a 99% death IMO. So I'd like you to think about that as well gm. Also I think going after someone else here would have worked out better. If zany did that with jish instead of me, town oulde have been screwed preeeeetty much.
On the josh lurking thing. I don't know, I had him voted on day1 so I was pretty sure he was mafia. At least I got a gut feeling he is. After those modkills I pmed wherebugs (a coach) to discuss my night actions and asked him what he thinks about my analysis. I basicly told him I don't know about zany, I am 90% sure about raynes and if rayne's red zany got to be red as well. For the 3rd mafia it's either josh, franzp (for not voting) or thnika (not voting, too). My mistake that I did not realize that those 2 where inactive at that point. Once they both flipped I was something like 70% sure abotu josh being red, which was the reason I checked him on night 2. Sadly I wasn't able to make you guys think that way too, neither on day1 nore on day 3 (day 2 was all about raynes and zany).
Actually my conclusion in my final post said something like "I'm 99% sure zanfa is green, as well as me and about the two others I'm not sure. I'd say jish 30% mafa and josh 70%mafia" but reread it, thought from what the post is about it sounds actually the other way around (70%jish, 30% josh) and made it a 50/50. But yeah nothing "sure", just a gut feeling. Next time I'll listen to it :p
Oh and about my checks. holy wtf, no I dod not check zanfa why would I even do that :p Raynes on night 1 who turned out to be red. Who would have thought after his claim! Josh on night 2 who turned out to be red. Even got the confirmation he's red and I asked sinani why he told me :p
Btw about that math-post thingy, thought it's trivial. You stated that lynching a town, which is the worstcase for us makes dt and medic better because of 3/8 instead of 3/9 while having the same amount of days left. Well that's the mistake, the dayes change by 0,5 (that way we could have made one mislynch for example I think). Mafia can only kill one guy per night so a 3/9 chance isn't only a 3/9 chance but most likely a 3/9 and a 3/8 next day together, while a 3/8 is only a 3/8 Also around that post josh made a couple of turn arounds. First he said we need a lynch for town, telling people a modkill lynch is not going to help, next post he said a no-lynch probably would be the best for town. That sounded pretty strange, but giving it is a beginners game I thought you maybe did just change your mind. Was that change after we switched to zany? Because if it was after that switch we all made a mistake by not finding that quote in time :p I found those 2 quotes and thought they're looking odd, but didn't check at which time they were posted so I did not inclue them in my final post because it could have been just nothing,
Oh and yeah. I really thought joshs posts on day3 screamed scum all the way, like cyri said. Thought that might make zanfa vote for josh instead but it didn't Maybe I just thought his posts are scumslips because I knew he is scum, don't know.
On October 06 2011 13:18 zany_001 wrote: Yuss gg all, sorta.
I should note my role claiming mafia was intentional and calculated; it was most probable that I would be lynched anyway (assuming active town lol) so I decide to go out and take toad with me. Rayn pulling out like that messed things up and I thought it would have been over without risky attempts like mine; plus me calling mafia drew suspicion away from josh, what little there was.
Don't *ever* roleclaim mafia, you can fake dt or something, but claiming mafia is not playing to win, because it guarantees you will be lynched. Especially don't claim mafai 2 hours into day 2 when you can still divert the lynch -__-
Seriously, don't ever do this. I don't care if you didn't "mean" to be cheating or that it was a ploy. There are rules in the OP. Those rules get followed. The moment you slip on those rules is the moment you say fuck you to the game. The rules said to play to win and claiming you are mafia and then "outting" your team is not only using an "outside-the-game" mechanic but also opens the way to everyone else trying to claim mafia and "outting others" and seeing if they'll get modkilled or not.
Everyone knows outting your team is a bannable offense, a PERMANENT BANNABLE OFFENSE. So a fake "outting" not only confirms the other member as town but also doesn't work because since you won't be banned for a fake outting, everyone knows that. If you get lynched and flip mafia then:
1) you fake outted 2) the person you outted is town 3) you're mafia
Another situation that could go down is that you're actually town, you pretend to out your team. You don't get banned. You claim that since you didn't get banned that you are not mafia. In both situations outside-the-game mechanics are used to prove yourself as either mafia or not. This is basically the same thing as comparing PMs. Don't ever do it again.
On October 06 2011 13:18 zany_001 wrote: Yuss gg all, sorta.
I should note my role claiming mafia was intentional and calculated; it was most probable that I would be lynched anyway (assuming active town lol) so I decide to go out and take toad with me. Rayn pulling out like that messed things up and I thought it would have been over without risky attempts like mine; plus me calling mafia drew suspicion away from josh, what little there was.
Don't *ever* roleclaim mafia, you can fake dt or something, but claiming mafia is not playing to win, because it guarantees you will be lynched. Especially don't claim mafai 2 hours into day 2 when you can still divert the lynch -__-
Seriously, don't ever do this. I don't care if you didn't "mean" to be cheating or that it was a ploy. There are rules in the OP. Those rules get followed. The moment you slip on those rules is the moment you say fuck you to the game. The rules said to play to win and claiming you are mafia and then "outting" your team is not only using an "outside-the-game" mechanic but also opens to way to everyone else trying to claim mafia and "outting others" and seeing if they'll get modkilled or not.
Everyone knows outting your team is a bannable offense, a PERMANENT BANNABLE OFFENSE. So a fake "outting" not only confirms the other member as town but also doesn't work because since you won't be banned for a fake outting, everyone knows that. If you get lynched and flip mafia then:
1) you fake outted 2) the person you outted is town 3) you're mafia
Another situation that could go down is that you're actually town, you pretend to out your team. You don't get banned. You claim that since you didn't get banned that you are not mafia. In both situations outside-the-game mechanics are used to prove yourself as either mafia or not. This is basically the same thing as comparing PMs. Don't ever do it again.
This pretty much. I was saving the speil for the banlist, but chaoser beat me to it.
It boils down to exploiting out of game mechanics.
I do agree that this was not correct because of what chaoser said and because it's in the rules. Just wanted to make sure that I think it was a mistake and not on purpose.
On October 06 2011 13:18 zany_001 wrote: Yuss gg all, sorta.
I should note my role claiming mafia was intentional and calculated; it was most probable that I would be lynched anyway (assuming active town lol) so I decide to go out and take toad with me. Rayn pulling out like that messed things up and I thought it would have been over without risky attempts like mine; plus me calling mafia drew suspicion away from josh, what little there was.
Don't *ever* roleclaim mafia, you can fake dt or something, but claiming mafia is not playing to win, because it guarantees you will be lynched. Especially don't claim mafai 2 hours into day 2 when you can still divert the lynch -__-
Seriously, don't ever do this. I don't care if you didn't "mean" to be cheating or that it was a ploy. There are rules in the OP. Those rules get followed. The moment you slip on those rules is the moment you say fuck you to the game. The rules said to play to win and claiming you are mafia and then "outting" your team is not only using an "outside-the-game" mechanic but also opens to way to everyone else trying to claim mafia and "outting others" and seeing if they'll get modkilled or not.
Everyone knows outting your team is a bannable offense, a PERMANENT BANNABLE OFFENSE. So a fake "outting" not only confirms the other member as town but also doesn't work because since you won't be banned for a fake outting, everyone knows that. If you get lynched and flip mafia then:
1) you fake outted 2) the person you outted is town 3) you're mafia
Another situation that could go down is that you're actually town, you pretend to out your team. You don't get banned. You claim that since you didn't get banned that you are not mafia. In both situations outside-the-game mechanics are used to prove yourself as either mafia or not. This is basically the same thing as comparing PMs. Don't ever do it again.
This pretty much. I was saving the speil for the banlist, but chaoser beat me to it.
It boils down to exploiting out of game mechanics.
... Nowhere in the rules does it say I can not role claim, nor does it say that I can't pretend that someone who is town is mafia. In fact, that would be good gameplay. My technique may have been unique to the situation, and perhaps very unexpected, but considering mafia is a game of deception, I think I was playing just fine. I was not trying to lose, I was trying to win through this special tactic. Whitera would approve, and you guys shouldn't mind that your players do unexpected things. If everyone followed a cookie cutter mafia style, mafia'd be pretty boring, and this mafia WAS pretty boring except for rayn and I's actions. Now, rayn's actions were bad because he was intentionally trying to lose, and he admits that. I was NOT trying to lose.
See the thing is what if some asshole decides to claim Mafia and out his whole team? He will for sure get modkilled and the game is ruined.
By allowing what you did opens the door for Town players to say "I am Mafia, this is my team" and then by pointing out that he did not get modkilled confirm himself as Town. It just opens up a Pandora's Box of possible shit that is gaming the host and not actually playing the game.
The only reasonable situation I've seen to claim mafia was an attempt to coordinate with a traitor at LYLO.
Another grey area situation I can forsee is when you know you are going to be lynched and want to "out" the identities of a Serial Killer or rival mafia team member. It technically might further your own win condition, but it could get sticky with a situation like Curu mentioned.
Nowhere in the rules does it say I can not role claim, nor does it say that I can't pretend that someone who is town is mafia.
Cheating: Cheating includes (but is not limited to): 2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
and probably this one applies too
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
Cheating is not tolerated here. The punishment will be severe.
It's not unique and unexpected. It's breaking the rules by forcing the host into a situation of modkilling.
The OP clearly states that handing out your mafia member list is cheating and will be severely punished. If you had actually handed out your list you would be automatically banned. If you hand out a fake list after claiming you are mafia, you are clearly forcing the host into deciding whether to modkill you or not. You didn't actually break any rules since you didn't out a real list and so technically you can't be modkilled but then that "non-modkill" can be seen by town as a "Mod Confirm" that you did nothing wrong aka you are townie.
If every single townie did that then the game becomes about being modkilled. Your tactic involved circumventing the rules and that doesn't fly here.
Rest assured I didn't intend to bring about the situation mentioned; the thought didn't even cross my mind that townies could claim mafia to confirm them being town. My thought patten was along the lines of this: Rayn just messed up and is dead I'm going to get lynched If toad survives the night he'll win the game for mafia (at this stage we didn't know if there was a medic or detective) UNLESS I go out saying toad is mafia, then he will be under suspicion tomorrow and josh has a good chance of winning.
On October 07 2011 08:17 zany_001 wrote: Rest assured I didn't intend to bring about the situation mentioned; the thought didn't even cross my mind that townies could claim mafia to confirm them being town. My thought patten was along the lines of this: Rayn just messed up and is dead I'm going to get lynched If toad survives the night he'll win the game for mafia (at this stage we didn't know if there was a medic or detective) UNLESS I go out saying toad is mafia, then he will be under suspicion tomorrow and josh has a good chance of winning.
And I was right.
No you weren't, Toad was shot the night immediately after you died.
Therefore, it was obvious you were bsing and your claim didn't actually affect the lynch the next day.
EPT
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