EPTso that's not a complete list of roles, right?
Resurrection Mafia
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wherebugsgo
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so that's not a complete list of roles, right? | ||
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On September 01 2011 21:43 bumatlarge wrote: Ill talk about wherebugsgo later today. Let's say I'd make him out to be similar to sandroba in terms of intelligence Oh herro framer  On that subject (sort of) we don't get the role information from our lynches, correct? Even from the second lynch? So then how do we find out if we struck red? We don't? | ||
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On September 02 2011 02:32 Varpulis wrote: These are WBG's only 2 posts in game, barring a question to the host. I know you can do better than this. Step it up and contribute. I've started school, and it's day 1. We have nothing to go off right now, there's nothing really to contribute. The flavor of this game is really weird, so I'd rather have as much information as possible than blindly accuse people for shitty reasons. Obviously that worked so well in XLIV, where we lynched two townies before actually objectively reading people's reactions and posts. I'm currently on my phone, and will be back later today. Hopefully we'll have a little more to go on by then. | ||
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Make sense? | ||
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The only thing that can screw with us is pious voters. However, we can make this happen. I also think it's worth it to focus on 3 targets at once and then get them all to 4-5 votes so that the likelihood of us hanging a mafia on day 1 are higher. We can't guarantee a mafia lynch, but we can definitely increase our odds. The downside to this is that if we pick 3 town to lynch, the roleblocker can fuck with us by roleblocking a vote on the "scummiest" player. The next day we might fall into a trap of lynching that guy just because he escaped the lynch. I say let's do it, but just be really careful about the types of conclusions we draw from it. | ||
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On September 02 2011 11:36 bumatlarge wrote: We should be reading more into the role list we have. This is an extremely odd set-up where lynching and killing is not completely based around eliminating scum. In fact, basing our tactics on that is short-sighted and I mean to remedy this. Dead players create a "pool" of suspects that a coroner can utilize. I am fairly certain we have 1 or 2 coroners, or else the game has a ridiculous set-up. In a way, the first lynch is really important, yet not as cruel with the Resurrection mechanic. We immediately lynch two players, and the coroner(s) must choose between them. I don't see how intentionally misleading roles like millers or sanity can be in this game, so I'm assuming what a coroner get's is 100%. So this is what I'm thinking, and I'm sure I haven't been the first person to speculate. If we have an unlynchable claim, and we put a few votes on him along with someone else we deem scummy, we can economically manage our now chaotic lynching power into something very useful and organized at this point in the game. The priest and coroner can double team the other dead person and hold on to what they get. Most likely the unlynchable will get shot, and the high priest can devote his power in keeping that person alive, while the coroner can go to town, and if mafia ever stop shooting the unlynchable, we get a confirmed town. Its extremely unlikely for mafia to have an unlynchable themselves without town having a direct counter to such shenanigans. Think about it, that one mafia member would have to be shot by the unlynchable, or he wins the game by himself. There are multiple loopholes to this plan, like perhaps a 1 lynch immune mafia that could "prove" himself, or perhaps a mafia watcher who can see who visits a dead person (goodbye priest and coroner :X) Thoughts on this? Also varpulis wagon is hilarious, though I'm not taking my eyes off him, the fact that that many people gunned on him from the little thing I picked up without questioning everything else gives us some great partners for unlynchable if this can follow through. I mean at worst mafia figures out who they can't push a lynch on? Can a High Priest revive the same person more then once? Except, when the unlynchable guy gets killed and we resurrect him, he'll just get shot again and be dead for good. | ||
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Nightless. All actions must be submitted by the appointed time. Double Lynch Every Day - At the end of the day, the 2 highest vote-getters will be lynched. Priests Resurrect, Necromancers Reanimate. Resurrected Players will live until they are killed again. Zombies die on the 3rd Day after Reanimation. So a Zombie reanimated on Day 2 will die at the start of Day 5. Players who are returned to life may not be returned to life in the future. No players are told how a character is returned to life. Mafia KP is N/2 (rounded up). Zombies count towards KP. This should answer your question, bum, about whether or not players can be repeatedly revived (no, once they die twice they're gone) Okay, so let's go over a couple things... We should only use bum's "plan" when we absolutely HAVE to. As in, in an endgame situation where we can win in 1-2 days by lynching the lynchproof guy and some suspect, then resurrecting the lynchproof, having the coroner check the suspect, and having the lynchproof shoot another suspect after resurrection but before he gets shot by the mafia. Second, I underlined what's really interesting to me. If mafia KP is n/2, and zombies count toward KP, does that mean a townie who is resurrected by a necromancer will count toward mafia KP? i.e. if there are 4 mafia members and 1 town who is resurrected as a zombie, is mafia KP 3? | ||
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Oh shit... This could be a problem. So basically, town, we need to be careful of letting mafia resurrect players. As they resurrect they can potentially gain KP for at least a day, even if they resurrect a townie. Thus, they can throw us off AND punish us with extra KP. Any proposed solutions to this dilemma? I'm thinking it might be beneficial to get the holy priests (if we have one/more) to resurrect immediately before the mafia have a chance to capitalize. But...I'm not really sure because there'll be two dead thanks to the lynches and then probably at least two thanks to the mafia kills. On September 02 2011 11:55 redFF wrote: wait so you want to check and revive someone? Waste of a lynch then? It's a free check, right? The only problem is that we need to get information from the coroner eventually. That'll probably be the hardest part, IMO, especially if the coroner dies someday and we don't know it, he'll miss a check. The coroner basically is the most important role (that we know of) in this game right now. | ||
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Unless, of course, there's some sort of mafia role checker. Which would suck balls. | ||
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On September 02 2011 12:24 jcarlsoniv wrote: Well they certainly know they're hitting townies. Whether or not their blue or green they may not know, but they still know a hell of a lot more than we do or will. Right, I meant more as in, if they want to deny us whatever information we ARE getting, they have no ability to aim directly for a coroner or whatever without actually having a role detection role themselves. I'm pretty sure iGrok said that mafia can choose to hit mafia too, so that might fuck us with respect to who we should revive, as well. I'd say, if there's a scummy player around who we plan on lynching, but he dies due to a mafia hit, he should get checked anyway and then if he gets revived we should examine him carefully. Mafia can take advantage of the fact that they know alignments by killing their own players and tricking us into reviving them and keeping them around. | ||
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Everyone just needs to pay close attention to the thread. It's even more important than in regular mafia games, IMO, as the lack of information for town means we can really only rely on our reads of scummy play. So, let's not rely on the coroner. We rely on our scumhunting skills. We lynch those mofos and then when the time is right the coroner can claim and we lynch the remaining mafia team all at once. | ||
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On September 02 2011 11:57 bumatlarge wrote: Well, I disagree in utilizing it that late, as an unlynchable confirms himself, forces two bullets which won't be hitting a coroner or a priest. And the zombie thing hmmm, I revoke what I previously said. With two kills, it's better to keep what we want done to who, since a necro can easily zombify the other and start racking up their KP. I'm assuming we won't be told if a player is zombie or not as well. What wat A daykiller is also a vet? | ||
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On September 02 2011 22:13 sandroba wrote: Okay, first unlynchable should definitively never claim. Even if his up for a lynch (and thus reveal that he is unlynchable) if he doesn't claim mafia can't reactively kill them because there is no nights (am I getting this right iGrok?). He can then use his power on the next day and/or get revived the day after mafia shoots him for being confirmed. There is absolutely no reason to claim unlynchable anytime soon. I need an answer on some questions about mechanic first, to then come up with something, but bum's idea on reviving one of the lynches and checking him day 1 is not terrible. I'll much rather use it in someone important like Ace (who is posting random derp now) though. For now I'm leaning on killing ON and kill/revive Ace. Can a priest/coroner target someone who is not yet dead? Which order do the actions go through regarding priests/coroners/mafia? I second this, I also find Ace's cryptic journal entries a little weird, so I'm fine with lynching him. Ace you need to contribute or I'm calling you scum. Scum. #vote Ace Also where the eff is the voting thread? | ||
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If we have only 6 hours left in the day, we have a problem. We need to concentrate our votes very soon. If we're making the first day 72 hours (which I would prefer) we'll get some more information and we can make a better educated guess at who we should be lynching, as time isn't so crucial. On that note: how much time is left in the day? if we're all in support of making the first say 72 hours I say we do it. It'll give us 24 hours more to deduce and think clearly about this. | ||
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On September 02 2011 19:30 Palmar wrote: About mechanics (I'm actually suspicious of Sandroba for not posting this). We should only resurrect people who we're almost certain are town. We should never resurrect lynched people. The high priest should use his power sparingly, I asked if mafia could shoot mafia because if not we'd get instantly confirmed townies by ressing the NK'd people, but mafia can, even if it's unlikely, shoot their own and have us res them for town cred. We should always instantly lynch anyone that gets resurrected without good reason. In fact, we should only resurrect people who we agree on, I suggest majority voting for ressing people. I think it may be beneficial not to use the high priest power, because even town-aligned reanimated zombies count towards mafia KP. So if we just agree to resurrect no one, we're basically gimping the mafia team of their greatest power. Need to think on it. Did you actually read the mechanics and just misunderstand or are you purposely misleading us? High Priest resurrections are not zombies, only mafia ones are. | ||
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On September 03 2011 04:12 Ace wrote: stop giving reads on every player in the game. you're fucking useless. Fixed; I think this is what Ace meant to say. On September 03 2011 04:10 Varpulis wrote: Alright, It looks like trying to convince you guys not to lynch me is a lost cause (admittedly i did a pretty poor job to begin with, but that's beside the point) I'm going to filter everybody and give my brief opinions on them. They won't be taken seriously now, i know, but hopefully they'll have more weight when a coroner checks me, which should happen eventually. The people saying that we shouldn't revive lynches are right. If scum want a lynch back, let them do it themselves. Zombies are temporary, so unless they're as scummy as scummy can be, lynching them night not be necessary. If they're increasing kp, by all means lynch lynch lynch, but if you believe mafia to have, for example, 3 players left, a zombie won't actually increase their kp, so you might as well just wait for them to die. High priest should be reviving night kills, because those are far more likely to be town. Without further ado, my reads: Jackal58 + Show Spoiler + leaning green, but there's not much to go on. he's playing his usual style as far as i can tell, and the reasoning behind his vote is relatively sound. RedFF + Show Spoiler + He's wrong, but he's not mafia. His suspicion and application of pressure and moderate tunneling are both pro town and effective. Sknowman + Show Spoiler + lurky, but his one post is good and informative. Not sure, leaning town. Kenpachi + Show Spoiler + no fucking clue, as usual. Wherebugsgo + Show Spoiler + scummy. Most of his posts are talking about mechanics and plans, aka "hey look i'm contributing without actually taking a stance or giving reads." Then he jumps on ace, who's as much lynch bait as i am at this point. sinani206 + Show Spoiler + also scummy. Soft defends me and then votes redFF with the explanation "he's scummy." When that doesn't work he jumps on the bumatlarge wagon again with the explanation "he's scummy." No explanation, nothing. Keep a close eye on this guy. Drazerk + Show Spoiler + lurky. Only 2 posts in the game, votes sinani, which i agree with. needs to post more. jcarlsoniv + Show Spoiler + i've got a town read on him, based on his attitude, activity, and the content of his posts. I don't see the scum motives in his posting, but this is more of a gut read than anything else Ace + Show Spoiler + had some early posts that weren't too bad, then started trolling with his journal. Null read, would like to see him actually contribute. A player who trolls even when asked to stop is a liability. OriginalName + Show Spoiler + Doesn't like meta lynching, votes Kenpachi on meta (???). contradiction, scummy. Needs to post more Palmar + Show Spoiler + Strong town. considers multiple points of view, and is able to step out of tunnel vision and make objective decisions. Filter him if you need any more convincing Chaos13 + Show Spoiler + wishy washy as hell. Not taking risks, votes palmar because Palmar was mean to him (aka didn't listen to his atmosphere post) Leaning scum bumatlarge + Show Spoiler + votes me because i made a "useless post" when there was nothing to discuss or post about. Unvotes with literally the same clause as redff (I still think he's scum, but let's lynch somebody else) Makes little sense to me. votes kenpachi on meta. I disagree with his posts about the high priest always reviving lynches. tl;dr the following people are scummy: WBG sinani206 Chaos13 bumatlarge Out of that pool, I'd like to lynch either sinani or bum. I'll look at the vote counts (I think i'll have to look through manually, but whatever) then make my decision with a proper accusation. I think you're trying too hard here, mate. Not to mention, a lot of your "reads" aren't reads at all, they're just fluff. We need more attitude like you, though! On September 03 2011 04:10 Varpulis wrote: Wherebugsgo + Show Spoiler + scummy. Most of his posts are talking about mechanics and plans, aka "hey look i'm contributing without actually taking a stance or giving reads." Then he jumps on ace, who's as much lynch bait as i am at this point. Put yourself in my shoes as both scum and town, reread, and then tell us all what you see. I'm a size 8 and a half, btw. (stfu I'm short) Just as a heads up guys, if this day is ending in 6 hours, I'm going to have very few chances to post outside of within the next 15 minutes. My vote on Ace had almost no effect (I wanted him to actually contribute so I don't have to deal with fucking null tells) and the rest of the town lynches seem to suck, so I propose two: Drazerk and OriginalName. Of the two, I prefer to lynch OriginalName, since I just have a feeling on Drazerk and that really isn't enough to go on. Anyway, take a look everybody: Filter OriginalName The sentence in green directly contradicts the sentence in red: On September 01 2011 11:54 OriginalName wrote: Why are we still disscussing Null-tells and passing it off as meta. Red anything you want to add that actually is from this game? Because imo right now your digging yourself a grave. On September 02 2011 15:40 OriginalName wrote: Where the fuck are Drazerk and Sknowman? Also the one thing I've noticed from posting today is Kenpachis vanilla claim. Firstly why do it? He's trying to establish townieness then basically asks a few questions then completely drops off the face of the earth. Nothing else seems to come out of him and I personally don't mind offing him. Also along with the above the last time he claimed townie and lurked he flipped scum. So in recap: For shitposting and meta I vote ##Vote: Kenpachi SUP Now, take a look at this, and tell me if you can find any scumtells: Filter Kenpachi Hmmm...can't find any scumminess there. Soooo in recap: OriginalName 1. Criticizes town for using null-tells as meta 2. Votes someone on a null tell, passing it off as meta. #unvote #vote OriginalName + Show Spoiler + Also, again, where the eff is the voting thread? FINALLY, on the topic of the mechanics of this game: I think we should throw out the idea of ressing lynches. Res the night kills. We can worry about ressing lynches when we have reasonable evidence to suspect that we have lynched an important townie. Otherwise, resurrecting night kills just makes a whole lot more sense. Also, if you are a high priest, please send your res in immediately after the daypost (or night post, whatever the fuck it's called in this nightless game) so that the necro doesn't get priority. Please seriously consider ON guys, I don't know if I'll be around much to pursue this case much today, as I have class in about 20 minutes for another 4-5 hours. | ||
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##unvote ##vote OriginalName | ||
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On September 03 2011 04:47 Varpulis wrote: ##vote sinani206 terrible vote. "he's scummy." is a shitty cop-out vote reason for scum who know that they can't make a plausible case. his PS is BS, basically saying "yeah i know i haven't been contributing, please don't vote for me." "my attempt to start a wagon against redFF failed miserably, i'm going to go and hop onto another wagon without explaining anything at all." Also, right now the votes are INCREDIBLY spread out. something like 11/15 people have voted, and we've got a bunch of people tied with 2 votes. With a roleblock and/or an unlucky pious, scum can really screw us over and ensure that only townies die if we don't refocus and get votes piled up on 2 or 3 candidates. I just saw this. The only problem I have with the part I've bolded is that dumb townies do it too. Remember hiro? He did basically this in XLIV and we ended up lynching him because we couldn't tell his dumbtells apart from real scumtells. I agree with your logic for the most part, but I want to be cautious here. | ||
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On September 03 2011 08:54 Sknowman wrote: For all of those calling me lucky and useless, I'm in China so my timezone is completely different to all of you. I sleep when you wake. I am still sticking with my vote on jcarlwateverthefuckhisnameis. The lynches all seem pretty weak to me. Are you thick? You posted this five minutes before the daypost. If you were here and you had the ability to change your vote you probably should've. If I was here before the daypost I would've changed my vote off ON, as obviously I was the only one who voted for him, and no one seemed to agree with my analysis. I was in class till about 5 minutes ago, though. Also, it's gonna suck for me that the end of the day cycle is basically when I get out of class on several days. I'll be quite active from today, tomorrow, and Sunday, since I have no school, but I can't make guarantees about some of the other days, particularly Fridays until this time of day. | ||
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On September 03 2011 09:10 chaos13 wrote: wat. Mafia can block votes?? brb, re-reading OP THIS is why I wanted the mechanics of this game to be clear. Obviously half the people here haven't read the OP/thread/etc. and now we're derping ourselves in the rectum. I have no idea who the majority ended up being (it looked like Varp and sinani or something) but mafia don't even have to roleblock I don't think, I'm fairly sure we ended up lynching two townies. Way to go, peeps. I think we should keep a close eye on ON/redff/Sknowman. Sknowman I list not particularly because I think he's scum, but because he's new and he probably doesn't really know exactly what's going on lol | ||
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 I say we lynch ON/red today. Odds: If there's 3 mafia, that means they comprise 3/10 of us. That means we lynch 2 people, we have 3/10+3/9 of hitting at least one=66%. Go with a scummy guy=almost guaranteed lynch. Let's say there's 3 mafia and we can for sure pin one of 3 of them. Then we have a 2/9 chance of lynching the other guy=1/10 chance of lynching TWO mafia. So, if our reads are good we have at least a 10% chance of hitting two mafia. Chance of hitting 2 town = 7/10 times 6/9 which is 46% if we just pick randomly. So more than 54% of the time we're hitting mafia. That's based on PURE chance. Let's get some analysis going. | ||
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##vote OriginalName I sincerely doubt I'm wrong about this read, but I need time to think about a secondary/tertiary target. Ace didn't die last night so he's pretty high on my list. Palmar didn't die either so he's up there too. | ||
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Kill him? Unless they thought you just had a power, in which case they might have conveniently planted a red herring because bum was already scummy... We need people to post damn it -_- this inactivity is bothering me | ||
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On September 03 2011 10:10 jcarlsoniv wrote: I suppose...I guess I'm just used to bigger games, and this is the first no flip game I've played. Alright, so let's assume I was overestimating (a much safer assumption). Are we sure bum wasn't sniped by a vig? If he was, maybe his death would register before the lynch? I'm going to have to take a bit to weigh possibilities once I get home. Bum isn't dead dude, wtf are you going on about? I agree with sandroba on this one, and until there's a better reason out there, I gotta go for scumbum. I still support an ON lynch and I am still actively looking for people to contribute so we can begin analysis afresh. ##unvote OriginalName ##vote bumatlarge | ||
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On September 03 2011 10:14 redFF wrote: revive sinani what...the...fuck? | ||
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On September 03 2011 10:16 redFF wrote: ##vote bumatlarge Hey red, who are your scumreads right now and why? | ||
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If it's not, you're a lying piece of shit and deserve to get lynched. Also, I asked for your scumreads, not your townreads. No shit sinani and varp are town, you don't need to be a coroner to know that | ||
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On September 03 2011 10:39 redFF wrote: ... thanks? bumatlarge, originalname, maybe palmar. I'm pretty obv town based on the fact im one of the only players who actually attempted to do any form of analysis yesterday and led a lynch on an imo scummy person. -_- What analysis? You just tunneled them to hell. Why do you suspect bum/ON and palmar? | ||
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On September 03 2011 11:36 chaos13 wrote: Wherebugsgo Examine this post closely. Does he get defensive? Does he make excuses for his lack of contribution? Does he provide excuses for then being absent, and suggest that even later he may not contribute? The answer to all three of those is yes. This is not a town response. Sometimes town will not contribute without even realizing it, getting caught up in mechanics and keeping their reads in their mind without sharing them, but when called out upon it they will have a natural skepticism towards their accuser, because they feel that they have been contributing. Instead, WBG becomes defensive and prickly, making it clear that he is completely aware that he's done nothing and does not want attention called to it. In this post he blames everyone for bringing up what he feels are shitty lynch targets, yet he provides no reason why he thinks so and does nothing in the way of presenting a case on someone he feels is a better target. Then he goes on to bring up more mechanics discussion. Finally we get a vote out of this guy, and he votes for Ace? Because his "cryptic journal entries were a little weird". That's some quality scumhunting right there. Sure Ace is trolling and generally being useless, but that wasn't the reasoning that WBG provided. No, his posts are just "a little weird". This is mafia going "Okay, I need to vote and I need a reason for it. Which is the easiest target?" And yet another wasted post. He doesn't even generate actual discussion of mechanics, which can often be helpful, he simply makes basic statements that further nobody's understanding of the game and roles within it, and goes no further towards figuring out how to use these mechanics for town's advantage rather than mafia's. Scumdar alert. We have somebody who is scummy and up for a lynch (sinani206). WBG makes a move away from his traditional no comment idea and defends sinani. As defense he uses a different player from a different game who flipped town while behaving this way. If it was a meta argument for sinani I would be far more comfortable with this post, but it's not so. Apparently hiro in XLIV is a good defense for sinani here, even though they are two completely separate people with different play styles. Then he ends it with a wishy washy mafia statement. Possible, but let's be careful. Not only that, but "I agree with your logic for the most part." Alright...which parts don't you agree with? Why do you not agree with them? Well 6 hours before day ends he proposes two new lynches. Isn't that useful. That way all the people over in Europe are asleep. That gives us a whole bunch of time to be able to successfully do absolutely nothing. Then he provides another excuse for not being around. After this he clearly states that the two lynches he wants are Drazerk and ON. Then he dismisses Drazerk because it's just a gut feeling, so he has no motivation to get Draz lynched. Now look at his case on Original Name. Wow. A whole contradiction. And you thought the varp and sinani lynches were bad? Nah. Then, wait..what? Why is there stuff on Kenpachi in here? I thought it was just Draz and ON. What made you feel the need to throw in something on Kenpachi? In summary, Wherebugsgo has contributed none of his personal opinions to discussion to the point of ignoring any and all analysis going on except to say the lynches suck, votes for Ace on shitty false reasoning, makes more nothing posts, displays wishy washy scum tendencies, and makes another attempt at starting a bandwagon. In short, Wherebugsgo is mafia. ##Vote Wherebugsgo Dude, you seriously need to learn to read, particularly if you're town. If you're mafia, I guess I'm not surprised. Then, wait..what? Why is there stuff on Kenpachi in here? I thought it was just Draz and ON. What made you feel the need to throw in something on Kenpachi? Clearly you didn't understand the entire reason I voted ON. He contradicted himself on the meta, by saying that people were passing off null tells as meta and then throwing votes around. He then did this himself in his vote on Kenpachi, taking Kenpachi's nulltells (hence my link to Kenpachi's filter) and twisting them into a meta argument against Kenpachi. I was DEFENDING Kenpachi. If you actually bothered to read my posts, you'd realize that. God town is being dumb today. | ||
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On September 03 2011 11:54 redFF wrote: lol@that defense. nice analysis chaos, i was specifically confused at how aggresive he was at me when i claimed with the swearing and the cursing and how he kept saying he knew varp and sinani were town and it was obvious yet did very little to stop their lynch. ##Unvote ##Vote wherebugsgo also town being dumb is not a valid response, if your getting voted its nobodys fault but ur own. i would like ace to contribute. Actually town IS being dumb. First of all, defending myself doesn't make me scummy. Second, your claim was horrible and you've done nothing for town. In particular, you tunneled two people yesterday, with 0 reasons for their lynch, and several people ended up siding with you. We certainly lynched two town yesterday, since mafia KP did not go down and they most likely have 3 members. Third, I actually DID do something, I contributed with an analysis of ON and encouraged people to read it. Obviously no one read it, because chaos13 comes along with "analysis" that claims I had no reason to vote for ON and then proceeds to completely miss why I included Kenpachi's filter. How the hell else was I supposed to stop their lynch when half the sheep in this stupid town insta-bandwagoned them? It's quite funny that you accuse me of doing nothing when you're pretty much singlehandedly responsible for us lynching two townies on day 1. Fourth, you've already accused like half the players in this game of being scum. The only players you haven't accused are chaos, kenpachi, sandroba, and the three guys who died from mafia last night. Chaos and kenpachi just bandwagoned with you, sandroba is clearly town, and obviously the three other guys don't matter cause they're already dead. You think sinani, varp, me, Ace, Palmar, bum, ON are all scum. 7/15, not bad eh? And, you agree with THIS "analysis": + Show Spoiler + On September 03 2011 11:36 chaos13 wrote: Wherebugsgo Examine this post closely. Does he get defensive? Does he make excuses for his lack of contribution? Does he provide excuses for then being absent, and suggest that even later he may not contribute? The answer to all three of those is yes. This is not a town response. Sometimes town will not contribute without even realizing it, getting caught up in mechanics and keeping their reads in their mind without sharing them, but when called out upon it they will have a natural skepticism towards their accuser, because they feel that they have been contributing. Instead, WBG becomes defensive and prickly, making it clear that he is completely aware that he's done nothing and does not want attention called to it. In this post he blames everyone for bringing up what he feels are shitty lynch targets, yet he provides no reason why he thinks so and does nothing in the way of presenting a case on someone he feels is a better target. Then he goes on to bring up more mechanics discussion. Finally we get a vote out of this guy, and he votes for Ace? Because his "cryptic journal entries were a little weird". That's some quality scumhunting right there. Sure Ace is trolling and generally being useless, but that wasn't the reasoning that WBG provided. No, his posts are just "a little weird". This is mafia going "Okay, I need to vote and I need a reason for it. Which is the easiest target?" And yet another wasted post. He doesn't even generate actual discussion of mechanics, which can often be helpful, he simply makes basic statements that further nobody's understanding of the game and roles within it, and goes no further towards figuring out how to use these mechanics for town's advantage rather than mafia's. Scumdar alert. We have somebody who is scummy and up for a lynch (sinani206). WBG makes a move away from his traditional no comment idea and defends sinani. As defense he uses a different player from a different game who flipped town while behaving this way. If it was a meta argument for sinani I would be far more comfortable with this post, but it's not so. Apparently hiro in XLIV is a good defense for sinani here, even though they are two completely separate people with different play styles. Then he ends it with a wishy washy mafia statement. Possible, but let's be careful. Not only that, but "I agree with your logic for the most part." Alright...which parts don't you agree with? Why do you not agree with them? Well 6 hours before day ends he proposes two new lynches. Isn't that useful. That way all the people over in Europe are asleep. That gives us a whole bunch of time to be able to successfully do absolutely nothing. Then he provides another excuse for not being around. After this he clearly states that the two lynches he wants are Drazerk and ON. Then he dismisses Drazerk because it's just a gut feeling, so he has no motivation to get Draz lynched. Now look at his case on Original Name. Wow. A whole contradiction. And you thought the varp and sinani lynches were bad? Nah. Then, wait..what? Why is there stuff on Kenpachi in here? I thought it was just Draz and ON. What made you feel the need to throw in something on Kenpachi? In summary, Wherebugsgo has contributed none of his personal opinions to discussion to the point of ignoring any and all analysis going on except to say the lynches suck, votes for Ace on shitty false reasoning, makes more nothing posts, displays wishy washy scum tendencies, and makes another attempt at starting a bandwagon. In short, Wherebugsgo is mafia. ##Vote Wherebugsgo If you seriously think a shred of that is real analysis then you're either thick, trolling, or mafia. Since I don't think you're massively retarded and I don't think you're trolling either, you're probably mafia. I mean, let's break this down, shall we? On September 03 2011 11:36 chaos13 wrote: Examine this post closely. Does he get defensive? Does he make excuses for his lack of contribution? Does he provide excuses for then being absent, and suggest that even later he may not contribute? The answer to all three of those is yes. This is not a town response. Sometimes town will not contribute without even realizing it, getting caught up in mechanics and keeping their reads in their mind without sharing them, but when called out upon it they will have a natural skepticism towards their accuser, because they feel that they have been contributing. Instead, WBG becomes defensive and prickly, making it clear that he is completely aware that he's done nothing and does not want attention called to it. 1. Nothing scummy about defending myself. 2. Valid excuses, I had class all day and that's why I wasn't posting. 3. I did not suggest that I will not be able to contribute. On the other hand, I contributed during the little time that I had! Much more than the oodles of people who were here the entire time and did jack shit. 4. It is a town response, you just don't have the ability to see from a different town perspective, or you are purposely being misleading. 5. I don't want attention called to my so-called "lack of contribution" because I am town and I know that any time that townies spend trying to get me lynched is more time for mafia to bandwagon votes on us. I want a productive atmosphere, not one where there are 8 suspects and no one knows what the fuck is going on. Unfortunately, that's how it was yesterday and I had to do the best I could do with what was available. The two lynches were Varp and sinani, they both sucked, so I voted for the player I found scummiest, ON. No one bothered to read my analysis, that's not my fault. On September 03 2011 11:36 chaos13 wrote: In this post he blames everyone for bringing up what he feels are shitty lynch targets, yet he provides no reason why he thinks so and does nothing in the way of presenting a case on someone he feels is a better target. Then he goes on to bring up more mechanics discussion. It didn't take a genius to note that all the lynches sucked. Varp and sirani were clearly town, yet they got tunneled and bandwagoned until you idiots lynched them. Most of the "scumtells" were really just null tells or dumbtells, nothing more. I voted ON on the basis that he contradicted himself (a great way to find mafia, if I may add) by using a nulltell on Kenpachi to accuse him with meta. I thought he was the best lynch target yesterday, and I'll stand by that statement. Lastly, I brought up more mechanics discussion because *gasp* this is a really flavorful game and CLEARLY NO ONE READS THE THREAD. You, chaos13, showed signs multiple times of not having read the thread. I brought up mechanics multiple times because it was clear to me that the town didn't understand shit. We can't hunt mafia until we actually understand how the game works. On September 03 2011 11:36 chaos13 wrote: Finally we get a vote out of this guy, and he votes for Ace? Because his "cryptic journal entries were a little weird". That's some quality scumhunting right there. Sure Ace is trolling and generally being useless, but that wasn't the reasoning that WBG provided. No, his posts are just "a little weird". This is mafia going "Okay, I need to vote and I need a reason for it. Which is the easiest target?" Lol wut? First of all, I voted Ace because everyone had completely ignored his trolling and I felt that it was necessary to at least force Ace to contribute if he was actually town. If he isn't town, he's not likely to get shot day 1 (guess what, he didn't get shot) and if he IS town, he'll probably contribute something reasonably soon. If Ace hasn't contributed anything by the end of today, and if he isn't shot, he's almost definitely mafia. But, again, like most players today, Ace is giving off a ton of null tells and not posting very much. So you're right in that my vote on Ace wasn't intended to get him lynched. I hated both the varp and sinani lynches because they were towny to me and it just didn't make sense to vote for them. At the time, there were pretty much no other options so I created my own. I voted Ace and then when he decided to be himself and continue trolling, I realized that trying to pressure him is rather fruitless and I voted ON for the reasons I've already stated that qualified him as being scummy to me. Lastly, if I was mafia and I wanted an easy target, I would've just bandwagoned one of Varp or sinani. Just think about it. On September 03 2011 11:36 chaos13 wrote: And yet another wasted post. He doesn't even generate actual discussion of mechanics, which can often be helpful, he simply makes basic statements that further nobody's understanding of the game and roles within it, and goes no further towards figuring out how to use these mechanics for town's advantage rather than mafia's. Why are you trying so hard to spin my posts off as mafia-aligned? Again, at the time of this discussion, people did NOT understand the mechanics of this game. I gave my opinions on the roles of coroner, and who HPs should res, etc. etc. If we don't have this organized by day 1 or early day 2 we all get screwed because our power roles don't know what they should be doing and people become confused about the game mechanics. This leads to more disorder and leads to a bad town atmosphere. Like, for example, the current town atmosphere. Lastly, I have no idea how you come to the conclusion that I have not helped town with my discussion of the game mechanics. You insinuate that I've helped mafia with my discussion without even providing concrete reasons why. On September 03 2011 11:36 chaos13 wrote: Scumdar alert. We have somebody who is scummy and up for a lynch (sinani206). WBG makes a move away from his traditional no comment idea and defends sinani. As defense he uses a different player from a different game who flipped town while behaving this way. If it was a meta argument for sinani I would be far more comfortable with this post, but it's not so. Apparently hiro in XLIV is a good defense for sinani here, even though they are two completely separate people with different play styles. Then he ends it with a wishy washy mafia statement. Possible, but let's be careful. Not only that, but "I agree with your logic for the most part." Alright...which parts don't you agree with? Why do you not agree with them? Are you insinuating that I defended sinani because he was mafia? Are you thick? First of all, I have no "traditional no comment" on lynch targets. I say what's on my mind, and I say it almost always when it comes to me. My defense of sinani hinged on the fact that he was giving off a bunch of null tells and dumbtells. Townies are almost always the dumbest players in the game. This doesn't make them scummy, it just makes them dumb.. Just because Sevryn and Hiro were dumb in XLIV, it didn't necessarily make them scummy (a lesson I learned the hard way, when we ended up lynching them) Sinani and Varp both made some dumb remarks, but that doesn't make them scummy either. As for what I agreed with varp on, I agreed with varp about the votes being spread out and needing to concentrate them so that mafia couldn't swing the lynch in their favor. Of course, I couldn't do very much to swing the votes away from varp and sinani, because no one was reading/listening. The part that I did not necessarily agree with was varp's "case" on sinani. I already explained that, it just seemed like a bunch of dumbtells to me. On September 03 2011 11:36 chaos13 wrote: Well 6 hours before day ends he proposes two new lynches. Isn't that useful. That way all the people over in Europe are asleep. That gives us a whole bunch of time to be able to successfully do absolutely nothing. Then he provides another excuse for not being around. After this he clearly states that the two lynches he wants are Drazerk and ON. Then he dismisses Drazerk because it's just a gut feeling, so he has no motivation to get Draz lynched. Now look at his case on Original Name. Wow. A whole contradiction. And you thought the varp and sinani lynches were bad? Nah. Then, wait..what? Why is there stuff on Kenpachi in here? I thought it was just Draz and ON. What made you feel the need to throw in something on Kenpachi? In summary, Wherebugsgo has contributed none of his personal opinions to discussion to the point of ignoring any and all analysis going on except to say the lynches suck, votes for Ace on shitty false reasoning, makes more nothing posts, displays wishy washy scum tendencies, and makes another attempt at starting a bandwagon. In short, Wherebugsgo is mafia. So, I'm scummy because I didn't like the Varp/sinani lynches and didn't do anything about them. Now I'm scummy because I introduced two new lynches six hours before the day ended? Dude, make up your mind. Am I scummy because I didn't do anything to defend two townies, or am I scummy because I decided to do something to divert a lynch off two townies? And you wonder why I keep saying you guys are acting like blithering morons? #1. I live in California, it was around noon for me when I wrote all that. I had class in the morning, and one hour after that post. Do you expect me to post at 6 am on the second 24 hour cycle just so the Europeans can see it? #2. Yeah, I dismissed Drazerk because it was only a gut feeling. I had no evidence on him but I wanted to make it clear that I found him "scummy". I was almost certainly wrong, obviously, because he died last night. I put my opinions out there because it's better to have my opinions for the town to read about my scumreads (which, at the time, were pretty much just those two players) than not have them out there. This last part deserves its own attention, because it really shows you're grasping at straws here. On September 03 2011 11:36 chaos13 wrote: Now look at his case on Original Name. Wow. A whole contradiction. And you thought the varp and sinani lynches were bad? Nah. Then, wait..what? Why is there stuff on Kenpachi in here? I thought it was just Draz and ON. What made you feel the need to throw in something on Kenpachi? In summary, Wherebugsgo has contributed none of his personal opinions to discussion to the point of ignoring any and all analysis going on except to say the lynches suck, votes for Ace on shitty false reasoning, makes more nothing posts, displays wishy washy scum tendencies, and makes another attempt at starting a bandwagon. In short, Wherebugsgo is mafia. Bolded=clearly you didn't read. Italicized=completely false. I voted for Ace because I agreed with Sandroba's idea + Show Spoiler [rage] + (BUT NO ONE WAS LISTENING TO SANDROBA. HE WAS THE ONLY VOICE OF REASON ALL OF YESTERDAY WHO WAS ACTUALLY ACTIVE. GOOD GOD) TL;DR Chaos accuses me of being mafia, not contributing, having shitty reasoning, making nothing posts, displaying wishy washy tendencies, and starting bandwagons. I accuse chaos of being full of shit. | ||
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On September 03 2011 13:25 redFF wrote: its weird that your longest and biggest contribution to the thread is defending yourself. The thread is chock full of null tells right now, how many times do I have to say this? The only exceptions are you and chaos13, and honestly that's not difficult to see now. | ||
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We need to lynch chaos and ON, or bum and chaos, or bum and ON. I think the best combination is chaos/ON. Of course, the thing is that if mafia want me dead and I don't get lynched I'll probably just get shot. If these 3 votes don't get pulled off me then mafia RB can easily shift votes off their guy onto a townie. I'll be back in 20 and start filtering posts on my comp (on my phone right now) to verify some of my thoughts real quick | ||
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On September 03 2011 06:32 iGrok wrote: There will be no vote count. I will tell you who has voted for who. Jackal58 =====chaos13 RedFF=======Varpulis Sknowman====jcarlsoniv Kenpachi=====Varpulis wherebugsgo==OriginalName sinani206=====bumatlarge Drazerk=======sinani206 jcarlsoniv=====sinani206 Varpulis======sinani206 Ace==========chaos13 Original Name==Kenpachi Palmar========bumatlarge chaos13=======Palmar Sandroba======bumatlarge bumatlarge=====varpulis Few things here I want to point out. There's a bunch of WIFOM here with respect to bum. For me, personally, looking at everything that's happened today/yesterday and at the vote counts, I give bum a 50/50% shot at flipping mafia. I think sandroba is town, so I value his RB claim (and no one has counter claimed RB) so I think it's very possible that mafia RBed sandroba in order to get fewer votes on bum. Then again, we could very likely have been on the path to lynch 3 townies, so mafia could've just arbitrarily picked sandroba because he appeared to be a definite town, possibly with a power, so they blocked him and created this WIFOM because of sandroba's insistence on lynching bum. bum=? Next, look at the other two people who voted varpulis. Kenpachi and red. They voted together on me as well. I'm thinking their alignments are possibly linked. I give them a strong chance to both flip mafia, or both flip town. I'll get back to them in a sec. The remaining two players I suspect are chaos13 and ON. + Show Spoiler + On September 03 2011 23:58 chaos13 wrote: Oh look, somebody is defending WBG by means of deflecting attention away from his lynch. Not only that, they're doing it by asking someone to ignore an analysis on a player. You know scum, just because it's a no flip game doesn't mean you don't have to put effort in. sinani206 Wherebugsgo sandroba Well, all three of those players are green. I can guarantee you all that. Chaos here attempting to forge a connection between myself and sandroba somehow. Any decent player will know that no such connection exists. He then immediately follows up with this: + Show Spoiler + On September 04 2011 00:14 chaos13 wrote: @_@ Good point. Hi Palmar. When immediately called out on his shitty reasoning, he just says "good point" without explicitly acknowledging that he's dead wrong/being misleading about sinani/me/sandroba. Sinani is not scum. Then, doesn't actually question Palmar, doesn't defend himself, doesn't do anything to actually substantiate his arguments. Whenever attention goes to chaos, he brushes it off and tries to go under the radar. This happened day 1 when he got two votes as well; he just completely dismissed the votes and tried getting less attention. I figure he probably knew that trying to defend himself would just expose more of his scumminess. + Show Spoiler + On September 03 2011 09:10 chaos13 wrote: wat. Mafia can block votes?? brb, re-reading OP Shows a blatant disregard for actually reading the thread/being informed. He then tries to make a case on me for having apparently shitty reasoning/trying to inform the town of game mechanics. So, if he's town, he's completely stupid, which I find rather unlikely. Instead, I find him probably to be mafia, being purposely misleading. No one misses this many things as a dumb townie. + Show Spoiler + On September 03 2011 08:30 chaos13 wrote: What I meant was that I'm leaning town, but I'm not positive of his alignment. In other words if he's scum, he's doing very well. I just stated it somewhat unclearly. Hello Ace. And for the strongest meta argument I've seen ##unvote ##vote Varpulis Here's where he replies to both votes on him day 1, but doesn't really do anything about it, just tries to brush off the votes. 1. He doesn't address Jackal's meta argument. If Jackal had it incorrect, I'd think chaos would've actually responded somehow to it. 2. Chaos acknowledges that Ace has voted him for no reason, but doesn't actually provoke Ace or demand Ace provide reasoning. Just "hello Ace." He then IMMEDIATELY slips into something else, bringing attention away from those votes on himself: + Show Spoiler + On September 03 2011 09:10 chaos13 wrote: And for the strongest meta argument I've seen ##unvote ##vote Varpulis So, he votes Varpulis for apparently having a shitty meta argument. I'm taking "for the strongest mta argument I've seen" to be sarcasm. Here is Varp's filter: Filter Varpulis-what meta? Either I'm retarded, or Varp never once used meta to accuse anyone of anything. On the other hand, this brings up a great question. Why would chaos vote varp for having a shitty meta argument (when, in fact, he had no meta argument whatsoever) but would not call out Jackal's meta argument against himself? Did he not want attention brought to it? I think so. I think the running theme of chaos13 is "don't bring attention to myself." Don't believe me? Read his filter. Filter Chaos13 Since I get the vibe you don't want attention, chaos, I'm giving it to you. Bring it on, biatch. Finally, ON. I called him out after the voting was closed, right before the daypost, for not changing his vote. He threw away his vote on Kenpachi similar to how chaos had thrown his vote on Palmar prior to voting Varpulis. The only difference is that ON was actually around to change his vote but didn't change. He was aware that his vote didn't matter, and his argument was nonexistent. This is why I voted ON with the intention of getting people's attention away from sinani+varp, who were clearly town. In the 6 hours I was gone though, no one actually paid attention to my argument. He didn't really respond at all to me pointing out that he wasted his vote, and he was even there right before the closure of votes. The problem is that now there is more information to go on and make a case against chaos than there is against ON, since chaos has appeared more scummy in the time that ON has not posted. Here's where I come back to redff and kenpachi. While I think there's a strong chance these guys are linked, I also think that there exists an opposing link between ON and kenpachi. I can't be sure of this, but this is my gut feeling. If ON is mafia, kenpachi is town, and vice versa. HOWEVER, this does not rule out the possibility that there are 4 mafia, or at least 3 mafia and some independent role we need to kill anyway. I am most sure of chaos, ON, redff, kenpachi, bum in that order. Things may change as people post more, but for now I really think the only person who is not going to come off that list is chaos, so I'm going to vote him. ##unvote ##vote chaos13. Also upon reading bum's posts I lean town on him. He's giving me a different vibe than I got in XLIV. It doesn't rule him out of being mafia, just something I feel at this particular juncture. | ||
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TL;DR from my previous post, Chaos is scummy because of him shying away from attention, particularly yesterday when votes were put on him. ON is scummy because he was definitely around during the daypost/right before but he hasn't posted anything, and he didn't change his vote off kenpachi. Bum is scummy because he narrowly avoided lynch and sandroba claimed RB, meaning he was probably saved by the roleblocker. Lynch two of them. | ||
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On September 03 2011 23:37 Palmar wrote: Btw, Ace, if you post like whatever you think and know about the game right now, and if you happen to be town, we can probably piece the rest of this together. I think WGB/Sandroba/redFF/Myself/jcarl are town I think Kenpachi/Ace/chaos13 are null reads I think ON/Bum are scum Thing is, ON/Bum both pressured Kenpachi yesterday, which reduces the chances of him being scum, so if I'm correct it's down to Ace or chaos for scum. Let's do it. This is a very good post. If we lynch ON/bum today and Ace lives to tomorrow, we should probably lynch Ace/chaos. I wouldn't rule out kenpachi being scum, though. It's still possible, though I guess I give that a pretty small chance because I think redff and kenpachi are probably both town. They just aren't thinking very well. So, let's leave chaos till tomorrow and lynch bum/ON? ##unvote ##vote OriginalName I suggest you guys go back and look at OriginalName's posts right near the daypost. Look at his reasoning. I voted this guy yesterday and no one listened, maybe I should actually stick to my reads for once and go with this guy. Chaos, I think you might possibly be town, but you need to defend yourself or I'll be voting you tomorrow. | ||
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Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar Voting OriginalName redFF wherebugsgo Voting redFF Ace Voting wherebugsgo chaos13 kenpachi towntells of chaos: 1. Voted me with actual reasons, and put effort in 2. seems to want a good town atmosphere nulltells of chaos: 1. uses shitty reasoning mafiatells of chaos: 1. doesn't want attention Conclusion: idfk anymore towntells of Ace: 1. Uhh...nothing nulltells of Ace: 1. trolling mafiatells of Ace: 1. no contribution 2. no attempt at unifying town 3. no attempt to substantiate any of his votes 4. is being purposely difficult to read 5. fishes for coroner after daypost Conclusion: YO ACE, howya doin? Likin that QT of yours? Come out and contribute, damn it. | ||
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Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar Voting OriginalName redFF wherebugsgo bumatlarge Voting redFF Ace Voting wherebugsgo chaos13 kenpachi I forgot bum voted ON. Oh BTW point of my voting situation was to show that votes are really split right now and that helps mafia. We need people to vote bum/ON. 8 people have voted already and the two who haven't are jcarl, ON. jcarl needs to vote for bum and ON will probably throw his vote again. If Ace doesn't switch to ON/bum then I think he's certainly mafia. | ||
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He's both. I come up with voting situation in which 2 people have two votes, 1 person has three votes, and 1 person has one vote, and he comes and votes for the guy with one vote, effectively cementing the split vote situation that is so advantageous for mafia. Lynch ON, he's trying to split our votes. We have 3/2/2/2 right now. We need 5/4 at least to guarantee two mafia kills. | ||
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On September 04 2011 06:11 Kenpachi wrote: dunno man, i want to get rid of all 3 of the major lynches right now. i'll decide tmrw. at the end of the day i can see Mafia using their KP on RedFF and Palmar. I will propose to you all to NOT revive Red immediately. Lets revive him later on or force Mafia to revive someone who is valuable to town. Another reason is Mafia's 3rd KP comes from the minion which acts as a free ressurection on blues. Think about it, the longer Red is dead, the more people die and when we really need him, we revive him and check everyone who died (assuming thats how his role works) Wtf? #1. There are FOUR people who have 3/2/2/2 votes, respectively. #2. We have no idea who the minion targeted so there's no point in discussing that. #3. You can't revive past the first day someone is dead, so lynching red is a terrible idea. | ||
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Focus on ON and bum right now. Both are rather scummy and there are great reasons to vote one of them. Plus, it consolidates our votes so that we're not worrying about potential townies getting lynched. Kenpachi, chaos, and Ace, you guys need to vote one of ON/bum. We can't keep our votes split like this. | ||
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On September 04 2011 09:18 Ace wrote: Good god you people are fucking stupid. Why are you asking everyone for their Town and Scum reads? Think past your ass for 5 minutes here. It's a no flip game, no information roles except ONE is revealed in the OP, and you aren't sure of the Mafia count. What the fuck is anyone's Town reads going to accomplish right now but to clutter the thread and lead to bullshit? Secondly telling everyone your town reads opens up to Scum manipulation. Your votes can't criss cross your Town reads or you'll be called out by any decent Scum reading the thread. You shouldn't give your Town reads early because the Mafia can see what players don't have strong support, leading to the easy sheepish behavior by the Town to lynch the person with the least friends. Stop doing it. Stop talking about "Town tells, Scum tells, and Null tells". Not one of you have a fucking clue how to use them. Makes my heard hurt reading posts by some moron trying to fit a square peg in a round hole while he has monkey shit on his face. Stop talking about the balance of the Scum team. You don't know how iGrok chose to pick teams, and even f you got an inkling it's not going to get you very far. Likewise, stop trying to say "if this guy is Scum the this one has to be". Are you dumb? We dont have any flips yet, and get them one at a time. You've got to be retarded to speculate on something that even in normal setups takes some voting wagons and post analysis to figure out. Now on to some real scum hunting since I left you jubjubs alone and see that you still suck like shit. Amazingly the ability to read and reason hasn't improved in 2 months. redFF's claim is probable. but not likely. I'm going to do this in TWO ways. Just follow sit back and take a seat, and dont drool on my chair. The main issue with redFF's claim is this: Back up roles never work like this, and this would be borderline criminal. First of all backup roles aren't used much because it penalizes the Scum team for performing well. The only instance of backup roles I ever see is when the Town success hinges on that one role. It is possible that there is a backup Coroner in the setup. But the backup role is always an exact copy of the original role - never more powerful. Check it out: How is it that the back up Coroner can check 2 people while the original can only check one? This doesn't seem right. Secondly if you really are the backup Coroner tell us both people you checked out, the alignments and the roles. You haven't exactly revealed this information easily and this is a major reason why I don't believe you. Even assuming there is an imbalanced backup Coroner role like you said, this would mean you aren't actually thinking about how the game works. Check it: If you revealed the roles, at worst you'd let them be able to use their powers and get killed again. However, you just outed your own self as the back up Coroner. Just thinking things through for more than 10 seconds after seeing THREE people die wouldn't it make sense for you to show some restraint? Thats exactly why I posted this earlier: You could have just bandwagoned this point and made it a big priority. You wouldn't have had to out yourself, and the priest who should be reading the fucking thread would understand - Sinani is innocent because the Coroner never spoke out again him. Your actions just don't add up for an actual Coroner or Town aligned player that would be thinking for more than 2 minutes. I don't believe you could actually be this stupid (well, maybe) so I'm calling your claim bullshit. Of the people you checked, 2 died by lynch which above all else are Town influenced lynches. 3 people died by Night Kill which above all else are almost certainly Scum influenced. But you checked the people that were lynched. Bullshit. LOL fucking finally. God it's difficult to fish shit out of you, Ace. I guess I should keep posting about mafiatells/nulltells/towntells of you and you'll actually come out of the woodwork. Or wherever the hell you're hiding. On September 04 2011 09:24 redFF wrote: lol... im a back up coroner, i have 2 checks, and i can use them both at any time. thats it. On September 04 2011 07:05 redFF wrote: im secret coroners apprentice, i can check twice a day. wat | ||
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On September 04 2011 09:30 redFF wrote: ...yes? You first said you have two checks per day. Then you said you have only two checks. Which one is it? | ||
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On September 04 2011 09:31 Ace wrote: I can't take your claim seriously. The real Coroner would not Counter Claim in this situation because it's not LYLO so it would be dumb. A Real Cop doesn't CC Scum claiming Cop unless the Town is seriously buying it and will lynch a Townie. No one is getting lynched over your claim so the Coroner has no reason to Counter Claim. Or he's dead. The circular reasoning this creates should suggest to you that we should keep this guy alive for now. Bum and ON are definitely more scummy. Bum avoided lynch, has not really contributed anything, and sandroba claimed RB (when he was one of the players who voted bum). ON threw his vote on Kenpachi and then purposely left it there while he was STILL AROUND at the end of the day. Now again he's still pursuing Kenpachi when it's clear he's definitely not going to get lynched today. There's too much weird shit going on with red thanks to his shitty play that I'd rather leave him alive at least till tomorrow. With ON and Bum hopefully out of action tomorrow we can lynch red and someone else. | ||
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On September 04 2011 09:38 redFF wrote: meh shitty play doesn't get my 2 top scum suspects lynched day 1 while non of yours do, but keep standing at the sidelines and calling everybody terrible while you continually can't get anybody you want lynched. Actually, you are playing horribly. If you actually read some of the stuff you post you'd know what I'm talking about. Your top two scum suspects got lynched because they got bandwagonned, i.e the rest of the town was as dumb or dumber than you were yesterday. | ||
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Either your claim is true and you played badly yesterday and are responsible for sinani's lynch, or your claim is fake. Just own up to it. | ||
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On September 04 2011 09:42 redFF wrote: you only get lynched as town if your bad, not your attacker's fault you played scummy. meh ima go now, i've said everything ive needed to say. It also takes some pretty dumb townies to then bandwagon a bad townie. This is why I'm not voting you, because I genuinely think you're playing badly. At least by tomorrow we'll know for sure whether you're mafia or not, and whether we should take the claim seriously. | ||
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Now I think Ace needs to come back and switch his vote off redFF. Ace come in and weigh in on this revelation we have here! | ||
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It is circular reasoning. redFF plays dumbly and makes a dumb claim, without thinking about the consequences that it could have, i.e. he dies in like two days. Either he's mafia, or he's dumb. He made a dumb claim because he found no other way to communicate to our high priest that he should revive Sinani over reviving a night kill. Does the HP take the risk that sinani is not the coroner, and revive someone else? We die even faster if that's the case, because after 48 hours a dead person becomes unrevivable. A dumb townie won't find any way to communicate to us that sinani was coroner without outing himself. | ||
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Anyway, to clarify, I'm not necessarily saying redFF is certainly town. His alignment is up in the air. I just think it wouldn't be the greatest idea to split our votes like this when bum escaped lynch yesterday and ON is flying under the radar just by throwing votes on people. On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote: doesn't change anything. iGrok hasn't confirmed or denied anything about redFF's role. It still doesn't help explain why a backup role would out himself. No one can play this badly. I'm not buying it and my vote is staying where it is. Go talk to someone else because your wasting my time. Yeah it does, it takes away some of the certainty of your accusation. Part of your feeling is based on the fact that you think the coroner can only check 1 person per day. If you're stuck on this part of the mechanics then you wouldn't be able to move on from there to accept that redFF could POSSIBLY be able to check two people in a day. If red only has two checks, and he used both of them, I can see why he might want to claim, because he knows that, even alive, he isn't much use. If we go another day without lynching ON/bum we might be in some trouble. Your vote on red is one of the things that is preventing us from getting a majority. I'm not saying I necessarily disagree with your vote, since I can understand where you're coming from. But there are still other possibilities you haven't seemed to explore and you really haven't weighed in on bum/ON at all. On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote:HOWEVER, he is the BACKUP coroner right? That means he is the last one. Why the hell would he out himself just for Sinani when he just saw 3 people get Night Killed. He'll die by Day 3 and the Town will have no Coroners left. The game is essentially over at that point. Think about this for more than 5 seconds. He would do this because we don't have 5 high priests. Reviving the coroner is obviously the best option for a HP, not blindly reviving into the pool. If we know the coroner died then we need him to be revived the day after he dies, because after one cycle the coroner will be gone for good. So, let's say redFF is legitimately the backup coroner or whatever, and what he's saying about having limited checks is true. Then, he gives the HP information about who to revive. He chose a very retarded way to do it (by outing himself) but he put the information out there nonetheless. If you accept that redFF's claim is stupid and it'd get him killed if it was true, then why don't you lynch someone else today and let him eat a mafia bullet? If red is alive tomorrow then we can safely lynch him tomorrow! This is the primary reason I want to lynch ON and bum, because I have a very strong read on both of them and I think that, if red's claim is fake we can just lynch his ass tomorrow when he ends up dead. On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote: As for your bolded that doesn't even make any sense. Bum avoiding a lynch doesn't make him Scummy, and it has no relation to sandroba's alleged role block. Even if sandroba voted for Bum, assuming bum is Scum why would that give him cause to RB sandroba? That doesn't add up at all. Faulty logic there. It's not faulty logic. The first person to get three people to vote on him was bum. Palmar, sandroba, and sinani all voted bum. He had those 3 votes until the daypost. Varpulis had like 1 vote at the time bum had 3, and sinani got 3 sometime after as well. If I remember correctly, if we just base this solely on how the votes panned out, the ONLY way that bum would've survived WITHOUT a roleblock is if there was a pious voter on both sinani AND varpulis. I find this highly unlikely. Sandroba's roleblock claim has not been counterclaimed. This suggests we should take it seriously. If he was roleblocked, his vote didn't count. This means that bum would've had only 2 votes on him, and Varp and sinani both had 3 or 4 (depending on pious)=varp and sinani got lynched. Remember that in the case of a tie, the first person to achieve that number of votes will die. Bum was the first of all 3 to achieve 3 votes. Thus, it's HIGHLY unlikely he escaped lynch by luck alone. On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote: Your second point also makes no sense. Most votes wins, not majority. ON leaving his vote anywhere when there are low vote counts to die and a role that has double voting power means this tells you nothing unless Kenpachi dies by low vote count. Again, we don't know who's pious, and who's not. In the current situation, we have this: Person A with 3 (+/-1) votes. Person B with 2 (+/-1) votes. Person C with 2 (+/-1) votes. Person D with 2 (+/-1) votes. We should EXPECT Persons A and B to get lynched. Let's say Person B is mafia. Then, mafia roleblocks one voter on person B and then A+C die. Why is this important? Well, if we have 5/4 votes on persons A and B, there's no way that mafia can fuck with our votes. This is why ON throwing his vote on kenpachi/red in this case, when Person D had 1 vote, is really scummy. This prevents persons A and B from actually getting enough votes to be lynchable even with roleblock. On September 04 2011 10:28 Ace wrote: If red is playing like shit (very high possibility) and weird stuff is going on it makes sense to lynch him. An unconfirmed claim that is an automatic game over if he dies? Why are you even thinking about bum and ON? No, again, it doesn't make sense to lynch him today. It makes sense to lynch him tomorrow, because if he's actually the reserve coroner then we're wasting a lynch on him. If we leave him alive then we force the mafia to deal with him until at least tomorrow. As you say, if it's automatic game over if he dies, and he's clearly playing like shit, then why lynch him? | ||
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EBWOP, in red is a substitution: If you accept that redFF's claim is stupid and it'd get him killed if it was true, then why don't you lynch someone else today and let him eat a mafia bullet? If red is alive tomorrow then we can safely lynch him tomorrow! This is the primary reason I want to lynch ON and bum, because I have a very strong read on both of them and I think that, if red's claim is fake we can just lynch his ass tomorrow when he shows up alive. | ||
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On September 04 2011 11:29 Ace wrote: There is no point talking about bum or ON when we have a situation that is more substantial. Bum or ON could be scum, but at this point it's more likely redFF is scum. Stop dealing with shit that holds no weight at the moment. igrok didn't confirm or deny anything because it would be silly. It's in the fucking OP He said some roles are INCOMPLETE. Not that they act differently from whats stated in the OP. The Coroner role states it can check A corpse, not 2. This isn't an incomplete role description. Having 2 checks while stating it has 1 is bastard modding. If this was explicitly stated in the OP, the answer to my question, as I asked it, would have been one. There's no reason for iGrok to say that roles are incomplete if my question was phrased like this: On September 04 2011 09:30 wherebugsgo wrote: How many bodies can the coroner check per day? If the full role description was Coroner Can look at a corpse and determine alignment and role. May be used any time, and will instantly return the information (as soon as I get the pm). You have a maximum of five checks and they may be used at any time Then certainly what redFF has claimed would be believable. If the role is not complete then what CAN we expect? It's dumb to think that we know everything about what a coroner can do when we're just speculating. I like how you say I'm dealing with shit that holds no weight at the moment when you are arguably doing it as much as I am. I even pointed out to you why I'd prefer a bum/ON lynch over a redFF lynch. In fact, I'll change my vote from ON to bum right now, since I really don't want us to be stuck on 2 votes on a whole bunch of people. ##unvote ##vote bumatlarge Just think about it. There's only two situations that could've happened that would have caused bum to escape lynch. Of varp, sinani, and bum, bum achieved 3 voters first. I don't remember which one of sinani or varp got 3 votes first (it doesn't matter, since bum achieved 3 before either of them) but let's say it was varp. Situation 1: All votes normal, no one gets roleblocked. Bum and varp die by virtue of achieving 3 first. Situation 2: All votes on bum and varp normal. Pious on sinani, no roleblock. Sinani dies with plurality, bum dies thanks to getting 3 before varp. Situation 3: Same as 2, replace varp with sinani and vice versa. Varp dies, bum dies. Situation 4: Some voter on bum gets roleblocked. Sinani and varp die. Situation 5: Pious voters on BOTH varp and sinani. Sinani and varp die. Again, I repeat, the ONLY situation in which bum would've gone untouched by the lynch is if he somehow got uber lucky and pious voters hit both varp and sinani. Otherwise there has to be a roleblock. I excluded the situations in which a pious voter hits bum for obvious reasons. 1-3 are not possible, that didn't happen. Only 4 and 5 matter. | ||
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On September 04 2011 12:20 bumatlarge wrote: Varp had 4 votes. Please open your eyes. . Shit you're right, I just went back and noticed chaos's vote. -_- | ||
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If we lynch mafia during the day, for example from 3 mafia to 2 mafia, does it reduce their KP that same day? e.g. would we see 1 mafia kill instead of 2? | ||
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Mind sharing your thoughts on bum and red? | ||
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Also, since none of you seem to have noticed, the reason bum is fine with being lynched himself when we're lynching red is because a 1 for 1 trade for mafia right now is really good when we'd otherwise be killing two of them. This also makes sense in the context or WHEN bum voted. I changed my vote from ON to bum at the critical juncture of 3 votes, giving bum 4. This basically means bum will get lynched barring some super fluke, in the case when we have 4/2/2/1. HOWEVER, like an hour after me he switched to red, making it 4/3 on him and red and making it very possible to escape again. | ||
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On September 04 2011 21:28 Ace wrote: *chuckles* That was cute. But your still terrible. *you're. Also Ace you're wrong, sandroba is pretty much the best player we have on town ATM lol. + Show Spoiler + you scummy biatch The guy who voted red who isn't mafia is joncarl whatever the hell his name is. He's new. SWITCH YOUR VOTE | ||
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On September 04 2011 13:27 jcarlsoniv wrote: The only downside to your story is that if sinani was scum, the mafia kp would have been reduced before the night kills went out, so only 2 should have died at night... LOL that is definitely not the only downside to his story. Read that post properly and it seems like the whole "analysis" is fabricated. Just read it from a town and mafia perspective. Do you not see what he is trying to accomplish? If bum dies, he can get necroed by the mafia team. Since the mafia team always has at least one necro, we can kill bum today but we'll have to kill Ace/ON tomorrow and then kill bum again the next day, and then lynch whichever one of ON/Ace he decides to revive that last day. If we kill both bum and ON today we only have to worry about lynching one of them tomorrow (Ace). That other lynch can go to whoever else we find scummy tomorrow to cover our bases, in case there are 4 mafia or somehow one of these guys miraculously is not mafia. | ||
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On September 04 2011 22:23 sandroba wrote: JC is not new btw, he is way more experienced than I am. Oh well he gives off massive airs of noobiness. | ||
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On September 04 2011 15:48 iGrok wrote: Yes. Order is Blocking Effects, Lynches, Killing effects, Other effects. This point is the strongest in establishing that the current mafia count is 3/4. In fact, I think it suggests there are only 3 mafia. Let's not assume that, but 1 minion/1RB/1 necro is a good balance for mafia. Knowing this, if we kill bum/ON today and Ace tomorrow, we can actually keep mafia KP at only one for a pretty decent amount of time. | ||
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On September 03 2011 09:53 sandroba wrote: Ace do you think it's possible there is more than 3 mafia? or that mafia has more than 1 extra kp, assuming the 3rd came from them? From a balance stand point we are likely facing 3 mafia, so that means we 100% missed both lynches since the kp did not get reduced. There is no point checking into the lynches, since they are most likely town either way, so maybe check into the nks? I have a pretty good explanation why mafia used the minion shot so early. Bum is the minion. Despite roleblocking me they couldn't be 100% he would've survived because of pious shenanigans. So they decided not to risk losing kp and used it day1. There you go. This one, sandroba? Also town needs to concentrate votes on ON/bum. I'll keep saying it till you guys do it. Filter myself and sandroba if you need arguments for voting ON/bum, filter Ace, ON, and bum to see why they are scummy. | ||
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Ace. | ||
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Neener neener ace whatcha gonna do when we come for youuuu BTW where is Palmar? Palmar when you read this I want your opinions on ON/bum/Ace. I know you think chaos is mafia but judging from the way chaos posts large analyses (that ultimately are usually cherrypicked/wrong, from the analysis I've seen him put up in XLIV, here, and in cosmic) he's probably town. | ||
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On September 05 2011 01:45 Palmar wrote: pretty busy today, can write up stuff tomorrow. two games in a row I have concluded that chaos13's reads cannot possibly be this bad, and thus he must be mafia, but two games in a row he has proven me wrong, once again I'm basing my read on him on the fact that I just don't agree with his reads. Ace hasn't written anything, thus his alignment can't be determined yet. I think he's just being an asshole and not scum, but with so little to go on, the error margin is big. Bum/On are my two primary targets for lynching today, only problem is that this setup sucks, so if we stick 4 on one, and 3 on the other, the mafia can stick 3 on the third and voteblock one of the three voting for bum/on, and thus guarantee a town kill, then they just reanimate someone as zombie and kill two more townies. I haven't really done the math, but I can't see a way to actually win this thing. I'm fine with lynching bum and on, let's do it. I'd be fine with day-vigging one of them and lynching chaos or ace. Actually Ace has written quite a lot, especially on red/coroner/etc, and I forced some stuff out of him. Go filter his posts and look at like the last 5-10 things he's posted. We can't really lynch chaos or Ace, we won't get enough votes for that. We CAN lynch bum/ON and dayvig Ace, though. Also, I disagree with lynching chaos anyway, so let's not worry about that. If you're out there, Daywalker, please shoot Ace in the face. Voting situation: Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar wherebugsgo redFF Voting OriginalName jcarlsoniv Voting redFF OriginalName Ace bumatlarge Voting wherebugsgo chaos13 kenpachi Alright, conclusions: bum reached 4 votes first. If chaos/kenpachi don't switch, he's going to get lynched unless there's a pious on both me and red and one of us bum voters gets roleblocked. If chaos and kenpachi both switch to ON/bum then bum is for sure getting lynched, but mafia can still roleblock a voter on ON to deflect the lynch onto red instead of ON. Everyone has voted, but the crucial gamechangers are chaos and kenpachi. We can't actually lynch both bum and ON for sure because mafia will roleblock whoever is voting on ON if ON has 3 votes. Fuck. Chaos and Kenpachi, you guys need to BOTH vote for ON. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT. If one of you three ON voters is pious this is the only way that bum and ON will both get lynched. No matter what, however, if you switch, bum is getting lynched. So, you need to switch anyway to assure bum dying. Is this clear to everyone? Dayvig, hit Ace please. | ||
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IF THERE IS NO 4/3/3 SPLIT TODAY ON BUM/ON/RED WE WILL LOSE. | ||
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Kenpachi, we neeeed you! | ||
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On September 05 2011 02:49 chaos13 wrote: redFF - I'm just gonna write as I think and see what conclusion I come to. Sorry if this gets a little roundabout or spammy. There have already been inconsistencies pointed out in his admittedly strange claim. He has only two checks, then he has two per day, and my personal favorite "Coroner must have died because I checked people." If your claim were true I am more than sure that iGrok would have sent you a PM saying "The coroner has died, you have become the new coroner, etc." So I don't believe his claim. Does this make him mafia? Not necessarily. If you're town, I certainly hope you have a good reason for lying. I want to save everyone some time here and tell you not to bother trying to get him to clear up his claim. He will stick to what he's said 100% despite all the contradictions in it. I recall an insane game I played with him on another site where he was mafia, fake claimed emperor with a ton of inconsistencies, lies, and contradictions and stubbornly refused to admit defeat when I called him out on every single one of them. From this I know that he's not afraid to fake claim as mafia. The problem is that I can't see the rest of his play coming from a mafia perspective in a normal game. But this is not a normal game. In other words, mafia have no fear of pushing a horrible lynch, because they don't have to be accountable for it. Looking at it that way, red's pushing for Varp D1 makes perfect sense as mafia. Conclusion - I'm not gonna waste more time typing out my thoughts here. redFF is mafia and should be killed asap. Jesus dude, think this over and look past WHAT red has been saying. Look at HOW he has been saying it. Look carefully also at how fast the bandwagon on red started. You really think a mafia player would get bandwagoned that fast? Then, on the other hand, look how freaking hard it is to get anyone to vote for bum/ON. Bum has been slipping through our fingers since yesterday, whereas ON just immediately goes into lurker mode as soon as he receives any attention whatsoever. Finally, look at Ace's posts. Ace posts that I'm missing things and that I'm just speculating on shit when he either is purposely misunderstanding or purposely being misleading. He doesn't give a damn about the second lynch (knowing full well this is a double lynch setup) and says I shouldn't care about bum/ON because there's no case against them, despite my repeated clarifications that, YES, there IS a case against BOTH of them. In fact, never once does Ace actually even so much as acknowledge any of the arguments presented against bum+ON, claiming it's a waste of his time. Look at how these three players post, and contrast it to the way red posts. You can't seriously believe red is scum based on behavior. | ||
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On September 05 2011 03:18 bumatlarge wrote: I cannot believe palmar and bugs can be this thick. RedFF's claim is BULLSHIT THERE IS NO WAY THAT CAN BE REAL Sandroba just said himself that redff is hiding some aspect. Hopefully someone on redff is pious. Please be try to be diligent townies. Chaos you're saying redff should be lynched asap yet you keep your vote on ON? What is everyone smoking? Please read what I put for sandroba before I most likely get lynched. LOL why do you keep going on about sandroba? No one has CCed the RB claim, there's no reason for us to not believe sandroba on the RB. Second, sandroba has actually contributed reasonable logic to benefit the town atmosphere (unlike you, Ace, and especially ON). There are a bunch of events that add up to the reason we saw 3 kills on night 1 PLUS why you survived. Everyone on redFF right now is mafia... | ||
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Can we all agree that ON is pretty freaking scummy? He doesn't respond to posts or inquiries about scumreads, he doesn't contribute anything, and he's just gone under the radar this entire time. | ||
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On September 05 2011 03:49 Kenpachi wrote: for testing purposes. ##unvote wherebugsgo ##vote OriginalName I only want to see if Ace/Bum/ON might be the pious There's no way we can tell who is pious. If red dies instead of bum it could easily mean someone voting bum got roleblocked instead. | ||
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Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar wherebugsgo Voting OriginalName jcarlsoniv chaos13 redFF kenpachi Voting redFF OriginalName Ace bumatlarge I have an idea that could be useful. Jcarl, vote for bum. sandroba, vote for ON. If mafia intends to roleblock a voter to save bum/ON they'll roleblock someone on the bum list. This way if one of me/jon/palmar gets roleblocked we can claim it. Sandroba has already been roleblocked so we can potentially confirm him by putting him on the list with four people on it, AKA on ON. Does this make sense? This eliminates some of the WIFOM if someone else actually gets roleblocked. | ||
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Is there any way we can lynch both ON and bum? | ||
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Voting situation: Voting bumatlarge sandroba #1 Palmar #3 wherebugsgo #5 Voting OriginalName jcarlsoniv #7 chaos13 #8 redFF #9 kenpachi #10 Voting redFF OriginalName #4 Ace #2 bumatlarge #6 Numbers following the names indicate the voting number. Sandroba voted first, Ace voted second, etc. So, it''s best for us NOT to switch any voters, because bum achieved 3 before red did, while ON has four. bum achieved 3 before red did, so he's going to die first. Remember that bum voted for red after I voted for bum; this was why that voting time was crucial. Our best hope is that there exists pious voters on bum/ON and the mafia choose an unlucky roleblock. | ||
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Assuming the dayvig kills Ace, the two options we have tomorrow are: Lynching whichever one of ON/bum lives and kenpachi Lynching whichever one of ON/bum lives and one of the zombie resses. Kenpachi, if you have objections to this you better start posting and contributing right now. If there is no dayvig/somehow Ace survives, we should lynch Ace and whichever one of ON/bum is still alive tomorrow. | ||
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On September 05 2011 08:23 Ace wrote: I play with the information I know, not like you idiots that still suck at this game. He means we don't have the same information he does cause he's mafia. + Show Spoiler + noob mafia ahahaha | ||
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On September 05 2011 08:59 bumatlarge wrote: I am a Astute Lawyer. I can see how many votes were casted for an individual in the previous lynch. I checked sinani's list and saw 4 votes casted. That's why I think sandroba's claims are bullshit about being roleblocked, since there was a obviously a pious man on sinani's list. The only player alive on that list is jcarl, and by his actions where he was very suspicious of sandroba, I'm thinking he has to be the pious man. Sorry to betray you jcarl, but hopefully you survive the night and vote sandroba, because I guarantee you that you are right about his RB claim being fake. LOOL Nice fake claim. If this were true why didn't you CC Sandroba with this like 24 hours ago? This is such bs | ||
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Do you just get informed you were revived, or what? | ||
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On September 05 2011 04:05 wherebugsgo wrote: Voting situation: Voting bumatlarge sandroba Palmar wherebugsgo Voting OriginalName jcarlsoniv chaos13 redFF kenpachi Voting redFF OriginalName Ace bumatlarge This kinda shows bum's claim is BS. If jcarl is pious and there's no roleblocker then the only reason bum would've survived is if one of the voters on redFF was pious. I can't seriously believe that. We need to lynch bum/Ace today since clearly the vig died or something. Let's assume the vig was varp and he's already dead. Currently bumatlarge has two voters. | ||
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We have two votes on bum, we have the same number of people again. We can actually for sure kill two mafia today, since we lost one mafia member and gained 2? 3? townies. Someone should open the voting on Ace, sinani and I have already put it in on bum. Get Ace and Bum both to 3 votes. | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:31 Jackal58 wrote: Bum is scum. His late claim is BS. I was minion hit. I received a PM from iGrok when I died advising me to continue watching the game because I would be resurrected at the beginning of the next day. The only thing that fits that is a minion hit. Okay so one of Drazerk/sinani is the zombie then. We kinda don't have to worry about lynching the zombie since Ace/bum are most certainly mafia and they take our KP. Tomorrow we'll need to lynch ON/the zombie. | ||
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What is that, a medic? | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:44 jcarlsoniv wrote: Ok, I missed that. Scum could have also revived sinani. It is stated that people who come back from the dead still have their powers, and they aren't told how they are revived. They keep their old alignment, but count towards mafia kp as well. So you could be the zombie just as easily as sinani. Unless I'm missing something. I think he's basing it off the fact that scum probably wouldn't revive sinani. At any rate, we don't have to really worry about who is the zombie right now. Our focus is to get votes on Ace/bum. Let's keep those votes equal. If you haven't yet voted for one of those two players, please do so. | ||
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On August 21 2011 03:42 iGrok wrote: Win condition does not change when you are brought back to life @ chaos RE the zombie thing Zombies count toward KP but they don't become part of the mafia. | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:50 Ace wrote: shut your face. Jackal is telling the truth and he's legit. LOL preknowledge much? Burn this nooob | ||
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So, Jackal is clean, Drazerk is clean (but probably ressed by mafia) and the only person who was revived yesterday that should even have a shred of suspicion on him is sinani. However I think sinani is probably also town because his claim is very believable, as mafia KP went down during the day upon lynching ON, and it certainly doesn't sound like he's made anything up. Lastly, On September 05 2011 09:55 Ace wrote: I'm almost tempted to believe that everyone who didn't read the OP is actual just dumb Town at this point. Ace says things like this because he already has the knowledge of who is town and who is not. If it isn't obvious yet that our two top priority lynches are bum and Ace, you probably haven't been reading the thread. There's no real point in getting hung up over who is the zombie right now, because shooting him would be a waste of the vig power. Current voting situation: Voting bumatlarge wherebugsgo #1 sinani206 #2 sandroba #4 Jackal58 #7 Voting sandroba Ace #3 bumatlarge #6 Voting Ace chaos13 #5 DAYWALKER DO NOT SHOOT DRAZERK | ||
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On September 05 2011 10:09 jcarlsoniv wrote: I don't find bum's claim as ridiculous as you do. I don't necessarily believe his claim, but I have had a sneaking suspicion that I am the pious since the first night. This makes it very difficult for me to decide which one of you to believe. Your arguments against his claim ARE very weak. "Coloring his role green instead of blue, and using the word "are" instead of "is". Dude you need to read more carefully. Bum was the one who colored his own role green. Also, sandroba is right in that it WAS a scum slip. Lastly, the number of things that have happened kinda don't add up to bum being right about sandroba. If bum and Ace both die tonight and someone dies due to a mafia kill anyway then obviously we need to reevaluate tomorrow, but we're not there yet. It doesn't make sense to value bum's claim when it came at the worst time of day possible (right before lynch). If he actually had pro-town agenda he would've claimed that well earlier in the day, when it would've been possible for us to switch votes off bum and onto a scummier target. | ||
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I agree with this. Except I find it very unlikely that Ace is town. | ||
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On September 05 2011 10:16 jcarlsoniv wrote: Apparently the words "I don't necessarily believe his claim" means nothing. Excuse me for playing the devil's advocate. It helps me think and play out scenarios in my head. When I present a converse scenario, it makes everyone else clarify their points (or yell at me and call me an idiot) to try and convince me. Except, you said sandroba's arguments are weak and cited him coloring bum's role text blue...when bum did that himself. This is why I'm saying you should read more carefully. If bum/Ace aren't the only mafia left then we don't have very many options in terms of lynches tomorrow. At this point for me kenpachi might be up there (since he's really done nothing all game). But, today, we need to lynch bum/Ace. Bum has escaped lynch TWICE and that is surely not due to pious coincidence BOTH times. That's just incredibly difficult to believe. | ||
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Except, you said sandroba's arguments are weak and cited him coloring bum's role text I'll add one last thing about the whole pious/RB situation: Mafia have created some WIFOM with this, but that's enough to discredit sandroba based on the actual results of the votes. When iGrok posted prior to the daypost, he said with no vote modifications ON and bum would die. This means, one of three things happened: a.) there was a pious on the redFF vote and no roleblock. unlikely. b.) there was a pious on the redFF vote AND a roleblock on sandroba. extremely unlikely. c.) there was a roleblock on sandroba and no pious on redFF. very likely. This also matches up with sinani's claim that ON was the inhibitor. If that's indeed true then we'll have an easier time lynching who we want to lynch today. | ||
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Mafia have created some WIFOM with this, but that's NOT enough to discredit sandroba based on the actual results of the votes. | ||
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On September 05 2011 16:21 sinani206 wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=9438894 LOL wtf popcorn aficionado | ||
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If they res ON then ON becomes necro and he can res one of them when they die | ||
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On September 04 2011 15:48 iGrok wrote: Yes. Order is Blocking Effects, Lynches, Killing effects, Other effects. Initially I thought that, if we lynched both mafia then the res would still go through but I guess I'm unsure here because "other effects" is after lynches. Thus, if we lynch a necro he can't res, I think. If we lynch the necromancer does his resurrect go through or is it nullified? (sorry for all the questions iGrok haha. We love you :D ) | ||
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Also I say we lynch jcarl/kenpachi tomorrow. If ON somehow gets ressed then replace one of them with ON. No offense to either of you guys, but kenpachi has been super hardcore mode lurking and jcarl suggested we have 5-6 mafia (rofl) and has been doing things that suggest to me he's new when apparently he's more experienced than sandroba. That is rather fishy to me. | ||
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On September 06 2011 04:56 iGrok wrote: I never said there was a necromancer in this game. + Show Spoiler + WIFOM OOOOH Oh you BITCH :p working on the assumption that there is, what would happen? Replace "necromancer" with "resurrector" if you wish, I don't give a shit Also if he refuses to answer I say we lynch iGrok | ||
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I think you might be right, Jackal. Also Kenpachi's last post is really makin me suspicious of him. Lynch kenpachi instead of Ace? | ||
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I don't know Kenpachi (or Ace either for that matter) so honestly I can't say anything there either. I'll come back in an hour or two after I've gathered my thoughts on these three (I guess just jcarl/Ace cause kenpachi has like no content whatsoever) If kenpachi is town and trolling, then derp. I despise lurkers. | ||
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On September 06 2011 07:46 bumatlarge wrote: Explain this, there was 3 votes on me, I don't see how this confirms a roleblocker in the game. ON had 4 people, I had 3 people and redff had three people. There is no roleblocker, so do not use it in your explanations on how you sinani and redff aren't scum. 1 shot was used I'm convinced. Don't even try to say that you as mafia would not resort to this so you can ride yourself to victory because town will buy whatever claim that comes out of your mouth. ON died and red died. If there's no roleblocker then surely you are suggesting that you, ON or Ace is pious? That's the only explanation, and I don't really buy into that, since not one of you has actually played like a townie. On September 06 2011 07:46 bumatlarge wrote: I think this is very big WIFOM. We can assume scum can opt not to shoot a bullet or hit someone twice. Completely disregarding that possibility confirms to me that you have something to hide. What? In this double lynch, no flip setup it doesn't make sense for mafia to withhold KP early. They get a huge advantage in voting leverage by eliminating as many townies as possible, as fast as possible. If they want to bandwagon someone, they can, and the chance of them getting a lynch off on that person is really really good. Anyway, I'm going to humor the thought here for a bit that bum is actually town. Bum, who do you suggest we lynch with our second lynch? Clearly I know you think sandroba is the best lynch today, but we have a double lynch system. Who's your next choice? Moving on... On jcarl: I don't think he's mafia. The way he says things and puts forth his posts suggests to me a town-aligned agenda. For example, I don't think a mafia member would respond to Palmar in a manner like this: On September 02 2011 01:32 jcarlsoniv wrote: I want to know your motives. You're correct in not wanting to lynch me anymore, but I want to know why you changed your mind. The reasons behind peoples' actions are how you figure them out. He also appeared to be actively watching out for behavior from several players, including some players that were difficult to read on day 1. Case in point, OriginalName: On September 03 2011 04:03 jcarlsoniv wrote: sigh...I really wish people would read the thread... Quoted this half a page up, but apparently I need to quote it for everyone. On September 03 2011 05:11 jcarlsoniv wrote: What would you like us to note about that? And of course ON established himself as scum by not responding to any of the queries, not from jcarl nor from anyone else (including multiple from me) IMO jcarl is town. Kenpachi is weird because he's done nothing but lurk. In fact, since his first post he's basically had no other intention. On September 01 2011 17:54 Kenpachi wrote: ok sorry guys. i had to sleep early to wake up early but i never slept so i never woke up. Its the morning and im tired but who cares (ps. happy birthday ON, wasnt able to tell you on LoL) Im a townie and im sad because im not an awesome role that is the priest or the necromancer in an epic setup like this. le sigh my gut feeling is telling me that if varp is scum, his team doesnt consist of me I would also like a summary of these following players: Sknowman Wherebugsgo jcarlsoniv i dont know who these guys are and i would like to know if they are fellow lurkers or not. I want to say varpulis is scummy but i have seen too many useless introductory posts that i dont know anymore. Aside from that i want to bring your attention to this: Red was pretty senseless in posting this. Instead of atleast justifying or defending himself, he asks what does not need to be asked. fos redff He opens with something about wanting to know whether the three of us unknown to kenpachi players are "fellow lurkers." First of all, kenpachi, screw you for lurking. Second, if it's actually your meta to lurk, then screw you again. Lastly, screw you for making it difficult to read whether you're part of mafia or not by being a lurker. Finally, I thought this was interesting (well, let's be honest, kenpachi pretty much posted nothing else) On September 04 2011 06:11 Kenpachi wrote: dunno man, i want to get rid of all 3 of the major lynches right now. i'll decide tmrw. at the end of the day i can see Mafia using their KP on RedFF and Palmar. I will propose to you all to NOT revive Red immediately. Lets revive him later on or force Mafia to revive someone who is valuable to town. Another reason is Mafia's 3rd KP comes from the minion which acts as a free ressurection on blues. Think about it, the longer Red is dead, the more people die and when we really need him, we revive him and check everyone who died (assuming thats how his role works) Both redFF and Palmar died. The thing that interests me is not his idea (which was stupid because he obviously didn't read the OP) nor his interest in getting rid of "all 3 of the major lynches right now" (there were only 2 lol) but rather the fact that he thought red and Palmar would be mafia targets. He was right, but why or how? Palmar really didn't do anything, he was rather inactive. He's a good scumhunter, but Palmar did nothing to suggest that he would be a mafia target yesterday. Is the scumteam creating WIFOM here with respect to kenpachi? At any rate, I'm okay with lynching kenpachi because I despise lurkers, but I think it's better to stick with Ace/bum. If anyone can provide concrete, objective reasons why we should prefer someone else over Ace, I'd be willing to listen, but I kinda doubt that Ace is third party/village idiot. Ace wants to be unreadable right now, I say we just take the risk and lynch him. If he's town, he's useless, if he's mafia, he's dead, and if he's third party...well, whatever. | ||
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On September 06 2011 08:26 Jackal58 wrote: I'm not worried about a mislynch. I'm worried about something nasty happening to us when we do lynch him. Ace's scum play is not this transparent. Your zeal bothers me. Step back and rethink your position. This is not a normal setup. Lynching Ace is a scary proposition in my opinion. If Day vig is in this game shoot Ace now. Please. If we had a dayvig it was probably varpulis or sknowman. I don't think there's any way we can deal with Ace other than lynching him. | ||
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On September 06 2011 08:58 Ace wrote: Gee, I wonder why. Pull your head out of your ass and think about it. Oh please enlighten me, almighty Ace. + Show Spoiler + I mean noob BTW I think this last post kinda rules out Ace being third party, just sayin'. | ||
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On September 06 2011 08:58 Ace wrote: If ON is truly Scum then how does that implicate bumatlarge and myself? Explain where we are linked together. Prove it instead of just hiding behind speculation. First of all, Ace, your entire post reeks of a logical fallacy known as an argument from ignorance. I expected better from you. If you're going to insult us and try to convince us of your argument, you might as well refrain from using logical fallacies and blatant propaganda techniques. The aim of this game is to convince people, but you're not gonna be believable when you're dishonest about it, which is why, to me, you're scum. Second, you and bum are implicated with ON in the case that ON is mafia because all three of you voted redFF yesterday, AND you two are the only ones going after sandroba. There's no random implication here, and you're not vastly better than us. Either you are such a brilliant mafia player (and so is sandroba) that none of the rest of us can see how sandroba is mafia (well, other than bum) or you're full of shit. Judging from your incessant need to troll, insult, and use logical fallacies in order to appear influential and/or important, I think the latter is far more likely. For this reason, you need to be lynched today. + Show Spoiler + noob | ||
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On September 06 2011 09:48 BayonnetAnderson wrote: I beg to differ. Please read "Sleeper Cell Mafia" or that game where everyone got guns and Ace was elected mayor for proof. go away smurf | ||
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On September 06 2011 10:38 Ace wrote: I only get pissed when setups venture off the norm without trying to balance both sides. Which happens a lot because most hosts dont do What If scenarios. But whatever. No flip games with 15 people having more than 3 Scum: A.) 15 player Normals often dont have more than 3 Scum anyway. B.) Reading through the OP there is a possibility for more than 3 Scum because of revival roles for the Town. If the Coroner can confirm players as pro-town then even being revived for 1 Day is a major advantage for the Town. It's essentially a temporary Tree Stump. That being said having more than 3 Scum so that the Town doesn't run wild is likely. C.) redFF, sinani, myself, bumatlarge, jackal - all claimed roles. I know I'm town, and even assuming sinani and redFF are Town, bum being Scum, and Jackal being Town then there has to be some kind of revival role left out there. 2 Coroners, my game ending role, Jackal's alleged role: Thats a lot of power on the Town side. Either the Mafia would have 3 players with brutal roles or more than 3. If we accept that the inhibitor was 1 of them then that leaves 2 Mafia power roles. They'd pretty much have to have the necromancer or some revival roles or else as I said above - this game would end quickly. Which means the last power role has to be something awesome if there are 3 Mafia. A 1 shot sure-fire kill is great, but doesn't scream monstrous to me. I'm not buying the there has to be 3 Mafia argument yet. If you have such a kickass role that activates when you die, why the fuck are you so scared of getting lynched? | ||
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On September 06 2011 10:41 bumatlarge wrote: Wow this is the first I've heard of this. Mind sharing Ace? LOL On September 06 2011 10:38 Ace wrote: A.) 15 player Normals often dont have more than 3 Scum anyway. What does this have to do with anything? He didn't ask you about normal games. On September 06 2011 10:38 Ace wrote: B.) Reading through the OP there is a possibility for more than 3 Scum because of revival roles for the Town. If the Coroner can confirm players as pro-town then even being revived for 1 Day is a major advantage for the Town. It's essentially a temporary Tree Stump. That being said having more than 3 Scum so that the Town doesn't run wild is likely. If you think there is a possibility for 4 scum then give us who you think is scum. We have a double lynch for a reason. If you think both red and sinani are scum, well, one of them is dead. Who are the other two? (also it's not likely red is going to get revived.) On September 06 2011 10:38 Ace wrote: C.) redFF, sinani, myself, bumatlarge, jackal - all claimed roles. I know I'm town, and even assuming sinani and redFF are Town, bum being Scum, and Jackal being Town then there has to be some kind of revival role left out there. 2 Coroners, my game ending role, Jackal's alleged role: You didn't claim shit. You just keep throwing around this notion of some super badass role that will allow you to rape face, while simultaneously contradicting yourself on more than one occasion regarding role claiming (i.e. not really doubting Jackal and bum but going ape shit crazy over sinani and red) On September 06 2011 10:43 Ace wrote: Thats a lot of power on the Town side. Either the Mafia would have 3 players with brutal roles or more than 3. If we accept that the inhibitor was 1 of them then that leaves 2 Mafia power roles. They'd pretty much have to have the necromancer or some revival roles or else as I said above - this game would end quickly. Which means the last power role has to be something awesome if there are 3 Mafia. A 1 shot sure-fire kill is great, but doesn't scream monstrous to me. I'm not buying the there has to be 3 Mafia argument yet. Can you prove this? Why don't you come up with real objective evidence as to why ANY of this should be true? Who's speculating now? God you're a hypocrite. On September 06 2011 10:43 Ace wrote: Really? Show me where I have been scared of getting lynched. Come on read the thread - have I REALLY been trying hard not to get lynched? lol what a scrub Alright then, I advocate we lynch Ace and no one res him. Then since he's so much better than us he can do all the work and save us with his broken role. | ||
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On September 06 2011 10:52 Ace wrote: Yea I already figured him out. I'm just doing this for kicks. You'd think someone would revive Varpulis right now or at least push for it heavily. Oh well. This right here should prove that Ace has no desire to be helping town, because he hasn't read the thread. No one can revive Varpulis now because he's been dead for more than 48 hours. NOOB. | ||
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On September 06 2011 10:55 wherebugsgo wrote: This right here should prove that Ace has no desire to be helping town, because he hasn't read the thread. No one can revive Varpulis now because he's been dead for more than 48 hours. NOOB. | ||
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On August 20 2011 16:40 iGrok wrote: Player List
(2) Means on their second Life (D) Means currently Dead Replacements
Let me REPEAT, since Ace is too noob to be able to read the OP: On August 20 2011 16:40 iGrok wrote: On August 20 2011 16:40 iGrok wrote: Player List
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What's your explanation for this one? We need to lynch this noob, then we'll really see if he can put his money where his mouth is. | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:08 Ace wrote: I was actually hoping you quoted the OP. Perfect. Remember when I said it was a trick question? Why doesn't this apply to redFF's and sinani's claims? Wtf does this have to do with reviving Varpulis? Varpulis can't be revived because he's been dead for 48 hours. So what's your explanation for saying that his revival should be a big topic today? | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:18 Ace wrote: sigh. Ok maybe this will help. Let me try and break this down again. According to the OP Varpulis can't be revived. Correct? Right. According to the OP the Coroner role can check A corpse per day. That means one. redFF checked two. See where I'm coming from now? It doesn't say anywhere in the OP that the coroner can check ONLY one corpse per day. Ace you're full of shit and you know it | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:21 Ace wrote: Ok, but I've already addressed that. The roles may be incomplete but why would it contradict whats stated about the role in the OP? The coroner role may have some extra ability attached. Fine. But do we really believe that ability is "revive 2 players today" when the OP explicitly states something else and redFF messed up the claim! Do you get it now? So, since we're discussing semantics here... First of all, nothing is contradictory. Second, I'm not saying the coroner role has an attached extra ability. It's a compromise. The coroner doesn't have infinite checks, but the coroner role can use the checks whenever. This makes sense in the context of the role because the check is instant. Do I know this for sure? No, obviously not, but honestly neither do you. Right now you're a lot less believable than sinani and red, despite how shitty red played. | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:25 Jackal58 wrote: Coroner Can look at a corpse and determine alignment and role. May be used any time, and will instantly return the information (as soon as I get the pm). It means Coroner gets role and alignment back as soon as iGrok receives the request. Wtf does this have to do with ressing Varpulis? He's claiming that, since the coroner role is shown in the OP (as is Varpulis's state) then we should stick to the OP when we consider red and sinani's claims. I call bullshit on that because iGrok has stated that the role descriptions are incomplete. | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:27 Ace wrote: partially yes. Lets look at this another way because obviously basing it on whats stated in the OP isn't getting through to some people. Varpulis can not be resurrected. redFF checked the body. Said he Varpulis was Town. Why hasn't he given us Varpulis's role yet? Cause redFF played like shit, and he's dead now, so it's not like we can actually get that information anymore, can we? | ||
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On August 20 2011 16:40 iGrok wrote: Holy Priest May Resurrect 1 player from the dead per day. The Resurrected Player will not expire in the manner a zombie does. Coroner Can look at a corpse and determine alignment and role. May be used any time, and will instantly return the information (as soon as I get the pm). Important parts: On August 20 2011 16:40 iGrok wrote: Holy Priest May Resurrect 1 player from the dead per day. The Resurrected Player will not expire in the manner a zombie does. On August 20 2011 16:40 iGrok wrote: Coroner Can look at a corpse and determine alignment and role. May be used any time, and will instantly return the information (as soon as I get the pm). Your argument would make sense, Ace, if the coroner role stated the same thing as the HP role. It does not. | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:31 Ace wrote: what does "look at a corpse" mean? One. A Corpse. Not "a corpse, but 2 if my balls are tingly". Detective: You can investigate a player once per day and get their alignment. Are you honestly confused and think that this means the detective can possibly investigate TWO players? If I give you a hamburger, how many are you holding in your hand? The detective role says ONCE PER DAY The coroner role DOES NOT. Jesus | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:46 chaos13 wrote: Because ON is scum. Why make us lynch a scum twice when they can resurrect one of the townies they killed and make us lynch town? Because if there's 3 mafia and we're lynching the last two they automatically lose. Also in an optimal situation it makes NO sense to use the unreliable double lynch as a mafia KP when ressing ON will give them 2 KP no matter how many mafia they have left alive, as one of the current resses is almost certainly a zombie. Make sense? | ||
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On September 06 2011 11:52 Jackal58 wrote: It gives them KP Chaos. 1 for ON being scum .5 for ON being Zombiefied. iGrok answered this a couple pages ago. It also gives them their role blocker back. It also forces us to lynch known scum. Effectively removing one of our lynches. And if you didn't call me scum at least once I'd be disappointed. Actually it only gives 0.5 for ON being mafia. 0.5 for ON being mafia, 0.5 for ON being a zombie, 0.5 for the zombie that was revived today. 1.5 total, round up to 2, mafia gets 2 KP. That's definitely better than having no mafia members alive, when the game is over lol... On September 06 2011 11:51 Ace wrote: Which would mean redFF lied and something isn't adding up here. Sinani started with 2 checks. He could use both in one day. He dies without using any checks. redFF used one on Varp, and then lied and said he used one on Sinani because he knew Sinani was the Coroner anyway. He said he lost both of his checks at this point. Sinani is revived, and uses his check on ON and finds him to be Scum. Ok lets assume all this is true. There is a major snag. Earlier I pointed out that a backup role can not know the name of the player who has the original role. That is just too broken for the Town to have. Even so, lets assume this shit actually went down. Again - pay attention. Sinani said that redFF knew he was the Coroner but lied about using the check. Why oh why does Sinani have information about redFF's role? WHY? Think about it. The Coroner knows his back up. Sinani knows redFF is his back up. The back up knows the Coroner. redFF knows Sinani is the coroner. Hence, they both know that the other is Town aligned!. Perfect. So the Coroner has 2 checks per day. Ace misread the OP. Sinani and redFF both knew about each other's roles at the start of the game and both knew the other was Inncocent. So why did they call each other Scum, push cases against one another, Sinani voted for redFF, and redFF called Sinani one of his top Scum reads. 2 players that knew from the get-go that they were both Innocent and they did this. There's your behavior analysis sandroba. Now bow down to the throne. Fucking rape. I fail to see how this concretely establishes how Sinani and redFF knew each others' roles at the beginning of the game. All I see is that this reaffirms what we already knew; that redFF played badly. Since you're claiming you're gonna come back and kick ass tomorrow, would it appease you if we lynched ON and sinani? -_- | ||
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On September 06 2011 12:16 jcarlsoniv wrote: Scenario: Sinani knows he has an apprentice, but doesn't know who it is. redFF knows he is an apprentice, but doesn't know who the original is. Once the Day 1 lynches go out, redFF finds out that his master has died. He checks varp (maybe by sheer luck, or he's told that sinani was his master via PM) and finds he wasn't the coroner. By keeping up with the thread, sinani now knows that redFF was his apprentice. This would explain why redFF would push for the lynch on sinani, and then after redFF claimed apprentice, the stories line up. There's your scenario analysis Ace. Now bow down to the scrub, asshole. (Cuz, hey, if Ace is above the courtesy rules, then who's to say that everyone else isn't?) Fucking rape. LOL I love this game | ||
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If you think we can only win by you getting lynched, vote yourself. Help us lynch you. | ||
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Sandroba you too, I'm curious. | ||
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On September 06 2011 12:38 Ace wrote: Screw it I'm done talking about this. Look, I'm gonna die. Then things are going to happen. Something has to give. If Sinani and redFF are "coroners" then SOMEONE is holding back. I refuse to believe that more than 2 people playing this game won't be able to end this for the Town. If they are indeed coroners someone out there has a really, really good Town role. No way the Town only gets 2 dead body checks with this much KP flying around. DO NOT SCREW THIS UP Is it gonna be like a haunt or something? Do we have to button mash to defeat the demon? | ||
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Not like you shat all over redFF and sinani for doing exactly what you're doing right now, you know... | ||
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weigh in on this you mofo, stop lurking!! | ||
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On September 06 2011 16:59 Ace wrote: If this is true maybe the game is just hella Town favored and Mafia have no shot at winning anyway. Oh well. Scumslip? | ||
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although it is pretty funny watching you talk to yourself | ||
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He posted like 3 times during the last day cycle. | ||
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Kenpachi's lurking to hell, and he's a great lynch tomorrow, but honestly ON deserved what he got. | ||
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Jackal is scum because he said he can block all effects but in reality because he can't actually block blocks he's lying and therefore scum? I can see that if it's true. Also it bothers me that some of the townies are actually adding to the confusion, there's no way all of these shitty role claims have come from scum Kenpachi if you're town please contribute so we're not forced to waste a lynch on you | ||
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It's possible Ace is getting himself lynched so that spares the necros from being lynched. I mean, he could be the minion. So in this case there COULD be 4 mafia...? Or if there's 3 mafia... God damn kenpachi lurking is the only thing here that's fucking with me. Damn you lurkers Jackal what do you think of sandroba? What do you think of his accusation about your roleclaim? | ||
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Lynch jackal and bum, leave ace till tomorrow, ace is more likely to be town IMO than jackal. It doesn't make sense to me why iGrok would say that UNLESS Jackal is fake claiming. I don't like liars. | ||
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Ace is Ace, if we leave him alive till tomorrow I don't think it's going to be a huge deal. What's more important right now is that Jackal roleclaimed "medic" (wtf which medic actually roleclaims?) and he's been confirmed by iGrok to be lying about how his role works. If he really did have such an ability he certainly wouldn't claim it, because he's a better asset to town when mafia doesn't know what he can do. Otherwise they'd just shoot his ass right away. Jackal also really hasn't contributed anything, just look at his posts. I say we lynch him and bum. | ||
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Plus we lynched red anyway and the only way he's getting revived is if our HP is on crack and hasn't been paying attention to the thread (I sincerely hope that's not you kenpachi) | ||
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If bum is the minion and Jackal was dead yesterday, AND we killed the inhibitor ON yesterday, this means bum became necro (minion becomes necro? It makes sense from the name, like necromancer's minion or whatever). So bum and jackal are both necros right now and they can res two people at once. Let's say they res ON and redFF. That creates both WIFOM and adds 2 KP to 1 KP = mafia is trying to end the game by tomorrow. If this is true we have no choice but to lynch both Jackal and bum today. Please all of you think about this carefully | ||
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On September 06 2011 23:41 Jackal58 wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11254029 It's not in other effects. Order is Blocking Effects, Lynches, Killing effects, Other effects. It's a blocking effect. I block all evil doers from visiting a person during that day cycle. If I have chosen a person to protect and scum try to hit them or role block them they are blocked. Scum cannot target a person I am protecting. I have already picked the person I am protecting. I will in all likelihood continue to protect this person as long as I am still alive. No I'm not telling you who it is. Found it Hit OR role block he says. igrok's last post says that's not possible. Ace are you being purposely thick? | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:42 Jackal58 wrote: Because I was told when I died I would be ressed This also contradicts the OP. | ||
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From what it says in the OP I'd suppose that revived players are informed at the end of the daycycle that they've been revived, and upon their death that they MAY be revived. Jackal is saying he pretty much knew he would be revived from the PM he got about his death. | ||
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None of this makes sense in the context of you being a medic. No town aligned player would out themselves like that, not a half decent one anyway. The ONLY explanation is that you claimed to draw the mafia hit tonight but I somehow doubt that. | ||
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You can't seriously believe iGrok could make TWO glaring mistakes like that, could you? Also I really don't trust your motivations when you're willing to get yourself lynched and are rather unwilling to provide opinions on this, Ace. Third party alignment is probably not likely in this setup but you really aren't doing much beneficial for town | ||
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On September 07 2011 05:25 Jackal58 wrote: Well maybe we're not all as freaking good as you are. I was hoping to shed some light on who was the Zombie. It was painfully obvious Sinani was ressed by the HP. I knew, whether through mistake or not, that the Minion hit me. That left Drazork as the Zombie. After seeing the shit fest you and Sandroba have kicked up over Ace, in hindsight yes, I should have kept my mouth shut. How the hell was I to know you guys were going to start a shit storm and ignore the player that is providing scum with .5 kp. Don't you dare pull that you're not very good bullshit on me. As soon as I ressed scum knew I was blue. As soon as I was ressed I knew I had an enormous target on me. Or aren't you bright enough to see that. LOL nice emotional appeal mate I can't take you seriously when your contradictions line up with a defense post that isn't reasoned or thought out, it's full of emotional personal attacks. That's a mafia tactic. | ||
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On September 07 2011 05:34 Jackal58 wrote: No that's my response to somebody calling me a dumbass. Yes, because clearly someone called you a dumbass. | ||
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On September 05 2011 09:55 Jackal58 wrote: I agree. Drazerk is not lynch bait. Anybody that votes for him is scum or dumb. He is a good day vig shot though. Nothing personal Drazerk but reading the thread while I was dead leads me to the conclusion that sinani was ressed and you are reanimated. BTW Jackal just contradicted himself wrt to the zombie. If I'm reading this (and his most recent post) correctly he's saying me and sandroba have started a shitstorm over Ace while completely ignoring the 0.5 KP zombie res that is Drazerk. Well, if you thought that was a problem before why would you say that anyone who votes Drazerk would either be scum or dumb? Either we're ignoring Drazerk because we're scumbuddies or we're ignoring Drazerk because we know there are mafia left to lynch. Make up your mind man | ||
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On September 07 2011 05:47 Jackal58 wrote: Half your posts in this game are condescending to the person you disagree with. I suck as town because I claimed? I suck as town because I wanted town to know who the Zombie was? I suck as town because scum know I'm blue? I suck as town because Sandroba asked me to claim since he understood that scum knows I'm blue? I suck as town because I know how you derps act if somebody doesn't comply with your wishes? I suck as town because iGrok either accidentally or intentionally told me I would be resurrected? Stick it in you ear Bugs. No, actually this is precisely the opposite of what I'm saying. I consider you a good player. I think a good player, when aligned with town, would NEVER claim medic, flip or no flip. The only exception is a fake claim in orderto draw the mafia hit, and I find this extremely unlikely because of the zeal with which you protect your claim and yourself. The only other solution to that is that you're mafia. | ||
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Town needs to weigh in on this, we have only 3 hours to establish this. If I'm blatantly wrong about anything please point it out. (I'm looking at you, sandroba, chaos, jcarl, sinani, drazerk, anyone else who wishes to provide opinions) | ||
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Here: On September 07 2011 02:07 iGrok wrote: Order is Blocking Effects, Lynches, Killing effects, Other effects. No effects on the same tier can affect each other. So, you cannot block a block. Killing a Vig does not prevent his kill. Etc. unless otherwise specified. Mod clarification in red. On September 06 2011 23:41 Jackal58 wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=11254029 It's not in other effects. Order is Blocking Effects, Lynches, Killing effects, Other effects. It's a blocking effect. I block all evil doers from visiting a person during that day cycle. If I have chosen a person to protect and scum try to hit them or role block them they are blocked. Scum cannot target a person I am protecting. I have already picked the person I am protecting. I will in all likelihood continue to protect this person as long as I am still alive. No I'm not telling you who it is. bolded red=contradicts mod clarification bold=self contradiction plus rule regarding death contradiction. You say you're not going to tell us who you're protecting but then you claim you're protecting ON (apparently from being ressed.) On September 07 2011 05:30 Jackal58 wrote: Oh and the person I've targeted from evildoers today is ON. You fucking figure it out. The blatant contradiction is that you told us you wouldn't say who you're targetting. Well, now that you've said it you've thrown a bunch of WIFOM into the mix. Then, I think a little less obvious self contradiction is this: You said that you'd be "protecting" this person for the rest of the time you're alive. This doesn't make sense in the context of the target you chose to reveal because, if you wanted to prevent mafia from ressing ON then you would only have to "protect" him once. So, in that case, why would you say that you would be protecting the same person the rest of the time you are alive? | ||
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On September 07 2011 07:38 Jackal58 wrote: Clarified your clarification I just got home from work. I have about 10 minutes before I leave for bowling. I received a PM telling me my role is apparently imba and I can only visit the living. It originally said all players that may be remaining in the game. I don't really know what to make of this part This could mean almost anything at this point, but I guess it means ON is off limits. On September 07 2011 07:38 Jackal58 wrote: And yes you pissed me off. So I said what I was doing. You want me to wait til there is 5 minutes left to tell you like Bum did? You'd call me scum for that too. I would call you scum for that, because telling us who you're targetting, regardless of when you do it, is in direct contradiction to what you said earlier about not revealing your target. Wishy washiness is scummy. On September 07 2011 07:38 Jackal58 wrote: The more I thought about it on my ride home the more it seemed to me that you are the remaining scum. The only people I ever see work so hard to get a person with a protection role lynched is scum. Your arguments against my role are the same arguments you call Ace "noob" repeatedly for using. You can't have it both ways. Odds are I'll be dead shortly. You don't want to waste a shot on me if you can get me lynched. And ya it's easy to say you'll lynch me tomorrow if the games not over because you know the game won't be over either. I hate making an OMGUS but dude you're scum. If you're truly town then you need to stop accusing me based on your emotions and actually go back and read my posts. I keep calling Ace a noob because I was responding to his trolling with trolling of my own. I thought that was the only effective way to get any sort of information out of him. Not to mention, I'm not the only one trolling (or insulting Ace, specifically) Finally, no, actually, they're not the same arguments I use for demeaning Ace. RedFF actually never made a blatant mod-confirmed contradiction. He made a really bad claim (which is why I said I was bothered by the multiple claims that just seem fishy) and I even acknowledged that I found red's claim really scummy at first. Then, when I actually went back and analyzed the possible reasons a mafia would claim like that, I found none. His behavior doesn't suggest a mafia agenda, and there are no clear contradictions to the OP. He just wasn't clear about his role. Ace has focused on the "one corpse a day" thing based on semantics when he can't actually establish a proper contradiction. Nowhere in the OP does it say that a coroner can only use one per day, and iGrok has not said that in any clarification of the rules either. He HAS, however, said that blocking effects cannot affect other blocking effects. On September 07 2011 07:38 Jackal58 wrote: And btw Ace isn't scum. He doesn't want to get lynched. He wants scum to shoot him. I'd rather he stayed alive for a while. I said this exact same thing just a few posts ago. On September 07 2011 07:38 Jackal58 wrote: Oh and if you do want to lynch me don't be last to vote for me because you will die. I'm compelled to tell you that after I have received a vote. I am the Guardian Angel. I didn't write my role. I just got stuck with it. We'll ultimately find out at the end of the game, but I'm not comfortable in a no flip setup with leaving someone alive who has directly contradicted himself, the OP, and a mod's clarification, for a total of 3 things that don't make sense in the context of the things that have happened in this game. | ||
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You said that you'd be "protecting" this person for the rest of the time you're alive. This doesn't make sense in the context of the target you chose to reveal because, if you wanted to prevent mafia from ressing ON then you would only have to "protect" him once. So, in that case, why would you say that you would be protecting the same person the rest of the time you are alive? | ||
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On September 07 2011 08:15 chaos13 wrote: WBG, your main argument about Jackal saying he can block blocks reminds me a lot of Ace's argument about the coroner only being able to check one person per day. I doubt iGrok would have gone through the trouble of making it expressly clear that Jackal could not roleblock roleblocks. If you want to disbelieve his claim, find another reason for it. Okay, let me see if I can make this a little bit more clear. First, the similarities between my argument and Ace's: a. Ace claimed that redFF's coroner apprentice claim contradicts what's in the OP regarding the coroner. b. I claimed that Jackal's resurrection claim contradicts what's in the OP regarding what people know about being resurrected. That's pretty much where the similarities end. You yourself, chaos, pointed out that there's a discrepancy with what Jackal said about his revival PM and what appears in the OP. If you want to argue that my main argument sounds like Ace's then you have to compare my argument about Jackal's resurrection PM to redFF's coroner claim. So, let's do that. 1. redFF's coroner claim shows no direct contradiction with the information in the OP. Ace's argument hinges on the "one check per day" when no such wording exists in the OP. If, hypothetically, redFF claimed HP and said he resurrected two people (sinani and Drazerk, let's say) and can't resurrect anymore because he has no resses left, THEN redFF's claim would have contradicted the OP because the role text for HP specifically states only one res per day, UNLIKE the coroner role which uses different wording. This, coupled with red's behavior leads to my conclusion that red had no malicious intent with the way that he role claimed. The only possible contradiction in redFF's claim is with respect to his "two claims a day" thing, which also is not a direct contradiction. Finally, for assurance, sinani's argument supported redFF's claim. Ace argues that they had knowledge of each others' existence but he never actually establishes this, he just implies it. Thus, I can't accept Ace's argument, it's not actually logically sound. It's an implication based upon two false assumptions. 2. On the other hand, my accusation of Jackal hinges upon something you yourself pointed out: no one is told how a player has been revived, and dead players are not told they have been revived until the end of the 48 hours. On September 05 2011 09:20 iGrok wrote: Not green but I'll answer it anyways. Revived Players are pm'd that they have been revived and may post again. They are not told how they were revived (Resurrection/Re-animation). I mean, we can clarify this with iGrok if you so desire; I'll put my question to him at the end of the post. In fact, we could have Drazerk and Sinani answer this for us too, since they were both revived as well! Lastly, again, this is only 1/3 of my accusation, and it is the only thing that can be directly compared with Ace's argument against redFF and sinani. The 2/3 of my argument that are not comparable with Ace's argument: Jackal's self contradiction with respect to revealing who he is targetting, and how long he'll be targetting that player. (think about it, if his intention was to block resses on ON then he would never add the part about permanently keeping his action there. One block and ON can never be revived again, then Jackal is free to change his target) The contradiction between Jackal's roleclaim and iGrok stating that blocking effects cannot affect other blocking effects. I would believe the assertion about iGrok making a mistake if and only if it was the only occasion that such a coincidence would have relevance. However, Jackal's defense requires that this happen not once but twice. Lastly, his behavior (unlike redFF) is suggestive of a mafia agenda. @Sinani, Drazerk: were you told that you were going to be revived in a manner that is consistent with what is shown in the OP? @ iGrok Are dead players who are revived, by any means including priest resurrection, necromancer reanimation, minion resurrection, or other ways not specified, messaged that they will be revived at the end of the 48 hour period following their death or as soon as it is apparent that they will be revived (i.e. you have received an action from the minion/necro/priest)? | ||
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##vote bumatlarge | ||
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##vote OriginalName | ||
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Yeah, actually. | ||
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On September 07 2011 11:13 Jackal58 wrote: Ace needed to be shot. That's what his big game ending bs was trying to provoke. Since nobody else seems inclined to ask him iGrok did you tell me I would be revived in my death notice? Squash the bugs. WBG is scum. *rolls eyes* You don't even have a case on me. | ||
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On September 07 2011 11:39 Jackal58 wrote: More than you have on me. Your behavior screams scum. BRING IT ##unvote ##vote Jackal58 We have enough votes on ON, we need to get this second lynch started | ||
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On September 07 2011 12:00 Jackal58 wrote: Sure thing Bugsy. ##UNVOTE: ON ##VOTE: wherebugsgo Ask yourselves if you really think Ace was scum. Who pushed the hardest for it? Ask yourselves if you think I'm scum. Who's pushing again. We got a smart bug here folks. One that's directing us straight into oblivion. Go ahead and lynch me. Bug's gonna win if you do. And bugs are scummy. Ask yourselves if you really think ON was scum. Who pushed the hardest for it? Oh yeah, me. | ||
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LOL | ||
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After thinking over it about kenpachi yesterday I realized that lynching lurkers in no flip when you have better targets is a dumb idea, because you don't get any information by lynching said lurker. Well, I guess, unless he gets revived. In this case we actually have a much better lynch and that is Jackal. Currently we have something like 3 voters on ON and 2 on jackal. Let's keep it even | ||
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If all mafia are currently dead and the HP derps and resses one the game can continue | ||
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On September 08 2011 08:41 Jackal58 wrote: I'm pretty sure you kicked everybody's ass. If all the mafia are dead bro why you want to kill me? I'm sure you'll have your buddy Bum back shortly. Scummy bug. I'm sure you have some double speak for that one too. I can't believe you guys are listening to this pile of scum. Never once did I say all the mafia were dead. I still think you're mafia, and you're still alive. You need to die. | ||
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[QUOTE]On September 07 2011 07:49 wherebugsgo wrote: [QUOTE]On September 07 2011 07:38 Jackal58 wrote: And btw Ace isn't scum. He doesn't want to get lynched. He wants scum to shoot him. I'd rather he stayed alive for a while. [/quote] I said this exact same thing just a few posts ago. NO YOU NEVER SAID THIS [/quote] I said Ace probably isn't scum more than once. I also accused him of not wanting to get lynched (which he fiercely denied) I also said it'd be better to kill you yesterday than Ace, leaving Ace alive till today (though obviously that didn't happen.) The only thing I didn't say was that scum wanted to shoot him. [QUOTE]On September 07 2011 04:29 wherebugsgo wrote: FFS we can't tell shit from Ace, he could be trolling us for all we know. A townie wouldn't want themselves lynched because to themselves they are confirmed and a mafia wouldn't want themselves lynched either for self preservation. Ace is Ace, if we leave him alive till tomorrow I don't think it's going to be a huge deal. What's more important right now is that Jackal roleclaimed "medic" (wtf which medic actually roleclaims?) and he's been confirmed by iGrok to be lying about how his role works. If he really did have such an ability he certainly wouldn't claim it, because he's a better asset to town when mafia doesn't know what he can do. Otherwise they'd just shoot his ass right away. Jackal also really hasn't contributed anything, just look at his posts. I say we lynch him and bum.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE]On September 07 2011 04:21 wherebugsgo wrote: ##vote Jackal58 Lynch jackal and bum, leave ace till tomorrow, ace is more likely to be town IMO than jackal. It doesn't make sense to me why iGrok would say that UNLESS Jackal is fake claiming. I don't like liars.[/QUOTE] ... | ||
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On September 07 2011 23:22 Jackal58 wrote: NO YOU NEVER SAID THIS We'll ultimately find out at the end of the game, but I'm not comfortable in a no flip setup with leaving someone alive who has directly contradicted himself, the OP, and a mod's clarification, for a total of 3 things that don't make sense in the context of the things that have happened in this game. Actually, I did. I said Ace probably isn't scum more than once. I also accused him of not wanting to get lynched (which he fiercely denied) I also said it'd be better to kill you yesterday than Ace, leaving Ace alive till today (though obviously that didn't happen.) The only thing I didn't say was that scum wanted to shoot him. On September 07 2011 04:29 wherebugsgo wrote: FFS we can't tell shit from Ace, he could be trolling us for all we know. A townie wouldn't want themselves lynched because to themselves they are confirmed and a mafia wouldn't want themselves lynched either for self preservation. Ace is Ace, if we leave him alive till tomorrow I don't think it's going to be a huge deal. What's more important right now is that Jackal roleclaimed "medic" (wtf which medic actually roleclaims?) and he's been confirmed by iGrok to be lying about how his role works. If he really did have such an ability he certainly wouldn't claim it, because he's a better asset to town when mafia doesn't know what he can do. Otherwise they'd just shoot his ass right away. Jackal also really hasn't contributed anything, just look at his posts. I say we lynch him and bum. On September 07 2011 04:21 wherebugsgo wrote: ##vote Jackal58 Lynch jackal and bum, leave ace till tomorrow, ace is more likely to be town IMO than jackal. It doesn't make sense to me why iGrok would say that UNLESS Jackal is fake claiming. I don't like liars. .... | ||
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There is plenty of information out there, it's like day 4. If you want to scumhunt, then use it. It doesn't help any of us for you to muddy up the town atmosphere and seed doubt by throwing accusations at people without a shred of analysis behind it. Just compare my accusation of Jackal to his of me and you'll see exactly what I mean. | ||
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On September 09 2011 04:07 jcarlsoniv wrote: I'm not accusing you. I believe your accusation of Jackal is probably accurate. I'm just stating that it would be interesting if Jackal was right. This is not what you stated. You stated that I raised suspicions because of a post I made. Namely, this: On September 09 2011 00:32 jcarlsoniv wrote: and Again, I'll say that if you guys really want to end up lynching me, there's little I'll be able to do to stop it. But there are definitely people who should be lynched before me. I've been thinking and wondering if there could be any merit to jackal's "squash the bug claims". It would be very interesting if WBG ended up just completely fucking the town this whole game. If you have suspicions, be clear about them. Explain to us why you have these suspicions. Or, follow through on them. Investigate them. Provoke your targets into making mistakes. Don't sit around and idly speculate, because that creates doubt and it is beneficial for mafia. It's beneficial to mafia to think, "oh, what if this guy is right?" and then not actually do anything about it. If you think there's a possibility that someone is right about something that may be currently overlooked, do something about it. I don't understand why you seem so afraid to be lynched, either. That has been eluding me. | ||
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On September 09 2011 10:09 Ace wrote: I think that was me. I've played in setups with backups and while they are sometimes a "must", they aren't as powerful as Sinani/red made them out to be. Literally if the roles worked the way they said the Mafia would have 0 shot at winning the game as killing the Coroner actually sets them back. That's a bit absurd. I was laughing at WBG all the time cuz I was like "please, continue this. I need to die'. Then WBG was like "wait, lets not lynch Ace" and I was like noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!  I thoroughly enjoyed our massive troll exchange LOL | ||
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On September 09 2011 11:55 Jackal58 wrote: Bum if you ever shoot me again I'm going to shove your head up your ass. My god that was fucking stupid. Fuck you Bugs. LOL | ||
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ON was just a total derpfest (no offense lol I knew you were scum from that first post with the vote on Kenpachi), bum got caught day 1 and we never let that go, and then Jackal's lynch just seemed unsatisfactory because of how we caught him. Thank god you guys shot Draz+sinani and not me+sinani cause then town would've had no HPs. The pious got lynched because of the retarded town antics we had going day 1. That might've turned out really well for you guys if you shot me instead of Draz. | ||
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On September 09 2011 12:36 Jackal58 wrote: Who ever got shot on day 1 was insta townie. Whoever we shot on day 1 was going to be ressed or reanimated. That would have left town trying to figure out which one was the zombie. But some genius decided he needed to shoot me. If not for that we would have won. I would have just derped by as a stupid townie. It didn't matter that you were shot, we figured that Drazerk was the zombie based on the fact that red said sinani was the coroner. Of course, easy for me to say, since I knew who I had ressed, but even so I'm pretty sure it would've been the same situation even if bum shot someone else, particularly because it would've been extremely likely there would've only been two resses. The only way it could've been better is if you shot me and Sknowman and minioned some other guy. | ||
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I'd condemn Ace too but luckily it was obvious halfway through my persecution of him that he wasn't mafia | ||
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