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Wall of text incoming:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 23 2011 11:37 Curu wrote:
xtffc's "two town kills" slip definitely needs to be looked at, and I don't buy his defense. He describes town kills as kills that the Town makes, but that has absolutely nothing to do with modkills. Town does not control modkills, sick slip????? Of course townkills have nothing to do with modkills. Townkills are made by town, modkills by mods. What is the problem? On August 23 2011 08:49 GreYMisT wrote:I posted an analysis of a post by xfftc early on. here it is as well: Show nested quote +On August 19 2011 10:45 GreYMisT wrote:I have to agree with the above post fingering xfftc. On page 7-8 he starts an argument about what it means to lurk in a game with new people. He is seemingly advocating lurking in this post below On August 19 2011 08:03 xtfftc wrote:
Surely the Mafia is aware that open discussion is the ordinary citizens' strongest weapon and are thus likely to target those who are unafraid to speak their minds? A dictator always targets the means of communication: the media, the internet, etc. But in the below post he contradicts himself by saying that if 1 person doesn't post, we all lose. On August 19 2011 08:03 xtfftc wrote:
Surely the Mafia is aware that open discussion is the ordinary citizens' strongest weapon and are thus likely to target those who are unafraid to speak their minds? A dictator always targets the means of communication: the media, the internet, etc. And I already pointed out what was wrong with this: On August 23 2011 07:17 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 05:09 xtfftc wrote:
##Vote: Palmar
He obviously had something in mind and there's no way he wasn't aware of how his accusations would be perceived by the rest of us.
However, his strategy hasn't benefited town by now. He has until the deadline to convince me to vote DropBear or BrownBear. If nothing meaningful comes out of the discussion initiated by him, I'd rather have one less player who throws arbitrary accusations around.
I'd also like to point out that it shouldn't be that difficult to convince me to switch to DropBear, considering DropBear's behaviour. This is interesting. Can't say it wasn't welcome at the time considering how much Palmar was tunnelling me, but I go back to it and it feels rather strange. He wants "one less player who throws meaningless accusations around" sounds a lot like he wants "no players throwing accusations around" because at that point Palmar was really the only guy who was putting any suspicion on anyone (there was the sevryn thing, but that wasn't born out of someone accusing sevryn, that was more born out of someone noticing a pretty obvious slip sevryn made). Thing is, if nobody's accusing anyone, that's a veeery pro-mafia atmosphere. I suppose from the other side, it could be seen as him wanting to clean up the thread a little bit, but generally, going for the guy with the most posts on day 1 means you want to make day 2 a lot quieter - not a very town-centric viewpoint unless the guy with the most posts is really obvious scum (which Palmar isn't). When you look at this post, you have to look at the context as well - what else was happening at this point of the game. The filter option is great but no statement should be considered without a background. I liked Palmer's strategy and decided to play along. Before my vote on Palmer (and the few other votes that followed), most of his accusations were one-liners. Afterwards, he presented a well-written case against you. It wasn't enough to get you lynched on day 1 but it was a start. On August 23 2011 07:17 BrownBear wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 03:04 xtfftc wrote:On August 21 2011 02:56 Curu wrote:
wat
I'm asking for your thoughts on Sevyrn. Surely you have some thoughts on Sevyrn just from reading the thread like a good diligent Townie would be doing. I don't want a carefully crafted opinion or analysis, I want to know what you think about Sevyrn right now. Mafia. The "pressure vote" thingie sounded too much like an attempt to be tough on mafia - and once he realised he screwed up he tried to disappear. On August 21 2011 02:57 supersoft wrote:xtfftc on the other hand confuses my "I-know-not-all-of-you-are-scum-so-please-vote-list" with my accuses on him. I admit, I overlooked him when I made that list. However that doesn't mean my accuse on the first place was a mistake.
I didn't revenge-voted him for voting palmar. I don't care who votes palmar. I voted him for his reason to vote Palmar.
I never said such a thing - I simply pointed out you were sloppy. Pretty weak and short reasoning to change your opinion and jump on a bandwagon dude. At least your Palmar accusation had some balls behind it. Again, context. When I was asked about Sevryn, I said I wanted to read his response and to analyse his earlier posts further but I needed some time because I had to answer to a lot of other stuff as well. But Curu was not happy with this and said "I don't want a carefully crafted opinion or analysis, I want to know what you think about Sevyrn right now". I gave him that - and now apparently I am guilty for the very same reason. A little more explanation - but still not really any contribution. He wants to see the saga of me/DB/Palmar develop further... At that point it had pretty much settled into Palmar tunnelling me and Dropbear being mostly forgotten. DB was mostly forgotten but I wasn't happy with this. Shows a little bit of a lack of paying attention to the thread... at that point Sev wasn't a modkill candidate (unless the fact that he had voted but unvoted meant he would get modkilled, but I don't think that's how it works. If I'm wrong, then nvm.) Context. How can you seriously say that this shows "a lack of paying attention to the thread"?! Just read Wherebugsgo's post that I was replying to. Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 03:35 wherebugsgo wrote:
LOL Sevryn's running out of time. If he doesn't vote/defend himself, he gets modkilled, no? The question is whether he will get modkilled enough to allow us another lynch target. Again, if anyone isn't paying attention, it is those who build cases against me. Also, there was no chance I was gonna get lynched at that point. After Sevryn, you were the one with most votes at the time ^^ Raises the concept of a no-lynch (this was in the period where everyone was thinking "wait a minute what if Sev's just dumb town?). It was just after midnight in Europe and the question was whether we should stick to Sevryn or unvote him. There wasn't time for anything else. It would be good to bear this in mind tonight as well because unless there are two strong candidates, a switch isn't going to happen in the last few hours before the deadline. So you're saying, instead of just voting and going to pass out, he voted late, then decided to switch for the guy you've been pushing all game... and this makes him scummy? I don't follow your logic at all, care to explain this one? No, he didn't decide to switch. Everyone else who was online was considering switching to Rayzor when Mig came in and voted for Sevryn. Although your case is much better thought through than the arguments against me presented by Supersoft, Quicksilver and Greymist, you have also overlooked quite a few of the facts. :/ I'd really appreciate it if Hiro answers to this: Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 06:25 xtfftc wrote:
I did not say anything about the negative aspects of random accusations. I said that if I was scum, I would not want someone around that randomly accuses people. Well you could have asked me why it is that I don't want people throwing random accusations and I would have explained to you what is my stance on the issue. Why it is that you decided to vote before enquiring is beyond me. And finally, there is a limit to how much I can read and write. I can not keep on answering to the same accusations again and again and do a proper analysis of someone else at the same time. Those of you who are unhappy with my previous contributions might want to consider giving me a breather.
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Does anyone have any observations on Chaos13? This morning I was suspicious of him but after he questioned DropBear's claim I am more inclined to believe that he is town.
At the beginning of Day 1 he wrote passionately about town organisation and how a no-lynch is a tragedy and that it's Palmar's fault for leading town into this.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 20 2011 10:14 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 03:44 DropBear wrote:
I am trying to get things moving, get discussion started. The posts I quoted here are prime example s of why this needs to be done, noone is doing ANYTHING. In no way am I suggesting that they are Mafia, nor was it implied when I quoted them to you.
What do you mean by honesty? I didn't say anything that could potentially have been a lie? I asked questions and made suggestions, they aren't truthful or not. This makes no sense???
I don't understand your problem with me Palmar. If you are so quick to make up your mind off one post, an introduction to the game, then I sure as hell hope GMarshal didn't give you a gun.
The bolded is probably the scummiest thing about DB at the moment. You say that as if Palmar is confirmed town "I hope you didn't land vigi..." Any explanation for this? People keep complaining that the thread is disorganized and nothing proper is getting done. Who started all that? Palmar. Palmar as town is The Brother Leader and Guide of Town. I see absolutely none of that here. So far all he has done is cause mayhem and spam and disorganization and a generally very unhelpful pro-mafia atmosphere. In other words, that stops right fucking now. WE NEED TO BE ORGANIZED FOR THIS GAME TO WORK No lynches are very possible if we keep dicking around the way we have been, and no-lynches gain mafia a free night kill. So here's the deal. If you're going to vote someone, you explain why. Clearly. If you're going to accuse someone of being scum, you explain why you think they are mafia. Clearly. Any other behavior is anti-town and leads to spam and confusion. Let's cut out the spam, cut out the votes without explanation, cut out the troll posts, and cut out the one-liner arguments. My vote goes on the player who led town right into this shitstorm. ##Vote: Palmar
Later, he basically repeated what he had already said. "We're gonna derp ourselves into a useless no-lynch today if this keeps up." This comes at the point when there are seven votes on Sevryn.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 20 2011 23:38 chaos13 wrote:
We're gonna derp ourselves into a useless no-lynch today if this keeps up. This thread is a mess. I'm not sure on who thinks what of who any more because things are so muddled up with accusations everywhere and a complete lack of clarity in communication.
Again, who started this? Palmar.
When Sevryn confronted him that by voting Palmar he is directly helping the lynch of someone he believed was town, Chaos13 said:
On August 21 2011 09:31 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 09:25 Sevryn wrote:
all your doing is abstaining if you think im not scum then you need to vote for a viable lynch target other wise your just not voting and thats scummy.
palmar I should have played better dont blame yourself I'm voting for the person I think is scum. I fail to see how that is scummy.
Only to change his decision an hour later with:
On August 21 2011 10:29 chaos13 wrote:
Whatever. Sevryn is probably town and I don't want to see him lynched so
He switched to Rayzor at the moment when everyone awake had to do it in order to remain unsuspicous and it was also clear that there would be a lynch no matter what. In case Rayzor is town, both lynchings are okay for mafia, so they lose nothing.
Overall, hardly said anything useful all day long, yet he kept on going about how town is not organised and others aren't contributing.
Also, I'm not happy with this bit:
His defense (Mig's), just like chaoser's original accusation, feels false to me. I'm really not seeing anything genuine here. Mig as a player has a tendency to become very involved in the game, actively scumhunting, leading people, and basically taking control. This is such a passive defense, and is weak for such a strong player. I don't see much substance to it. This isn't an accusation of Mig, I just want to see if anyone else felt the same way about this post as I did.
He goes on and on about how the other players bring nothing to the table and to do this he writes a whole paragraph that can be reduced to half a sentence.
P.S. A reply to Curu's post from earlier today:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 23 2011 20:42 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 18:30 xtfftc wrote:Wall of text incoming: On August 23 2011 11:37 Curu wrote:
xtffc's "two town kills" slip definitely needs to be looked at, and I don't buy his defense. He describes town kills as kills that the Town makes, but that has absolutely nothing to do with modkills. Town does not control modkills, sick slip????? Of course townkills have nothing to do with modkills. Townkills are made by town, modkills by mods. What is the problem? You posted about "we need to get two town kills." That's taken to mean killing two townies - you tried to explain it away by saying town kills are kills controlled by the town = lynch and modkill. I pointed out modkill is not controlled by the Town, you agree with me. So...what did you mean by town kill? I see now. The town already wanted to kill Sevryn when Wherebugsgo suggested that he is likely to be modkilled. So even though he would have technically been killed by a mod, it was going to be what the majority wanted.
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On August 24 2011 04:13 Curu wrote:
Oh there's xtfftc. Ninja'd.
To be fair, I was online all day but there were like five new posts every time I refreshed and I felt that there was enough spam without my help.
At one point I thought that DropBear was DT but had suddenly realised that he might be insane or paranoid. Hence he wanted to lynch the person he checked on Night 1 to find out whether he is sane or not before picking up a target for Night 2. But then he came back to confess.
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On August 24 2011 04:23 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 04:12 xtfftc wrote:Does anyone have any observations on Chaos13? This morning I was suspicious of him but after he questioned DropBear's claim I am more inclined to believe that he is town. At the beginning of Day 1 he wrote passionately about town organisation and how a no-lynch is a tragedy and that it's Palmar's fault for leading town into this. + Show Spoiler +On August 20 2011 10:14 chaos13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2011 03:44 DropBear wrote:
I am trying to get things moving, get discussion started. The posts I quoted here are prime example s of why this needs to be done, noone is doing ANYTHING. In no way am I suggesting that they are Mafia, nor was it implied when I quoted them to you.
What do you mean by honesty? I didn't say anything that could potentially have been a lie? I asked questions and made suggestions, they aren't truthful or not. This makes no sense???
I don't understand your problem with me Palmar. If you are so quick to make up your mind off one post, an introduction to the game, then I sure as hell hope GMarshal didn't give you a gun.
The bolded is probably the scummiest thing about DB at the moment. You say that as if Palmar is confirmed town "I hope you didn't land vigi..." Any explanation for this? People keep complaining that the thread is disorganized and nothing proper is getting done. Who started all that? Palmar. Palmar as town is The Brother Leader and Guide of Town. I see absolutely none of that here. So far all he has done is cause mayhem and spam and disorganization and a generally very unhelpful pro-mafia atmosphere. In other words, that stops right fucking now. WE NEED TO BE ORGANIZED FOR THIS GAME TO WORK No lynches are very possible if we keep dicking around the way we have been, and no-lynches gain mafia a free night kill. So here's the deal. If you're going to vote someone, you explain why. Clearly. If you're going to accuse someone of being scum, you explain why you think they are mafia. Clearly. Any other behavior is anti-town and leads to spam and confusion. Let's cut out the spam, cut out the votes without explanation, cut out the troll posts, and cut out the one-liner arguments. My vote goes on the player who led town right into this shitstorm. ##Vote: Palmar Later, he basically repeated what he had already said. "We're gonna derp ourselves into a useless no-lynch today if this keeps up." This comes at the point when there are seven votes on Sevryn. + Show Spoiler +On August 20 2011 23:38 chaos13 wrote:
We're gonna derp ourselves into a useless no-lynch today if this keeps up. This thread is a mess. I'm not sure on who thinks what of who any more because things are so muddled up with accusations everywhere and a complete lack of clarity in communication.
Again, who started this? Palmar. When Sevryn confronted him that by voting Palmar he is directly helping the lynch of someone he believed was town, Chaos13 said: On August 21 2011 09:31 chaos13 wrote:On August 21 2011 09:25 Sevryn wrote:
all your doing is abstaining if you think im not scum then you need to vote for a viable lynch target other wise your just not voting and thats scummy.
palmar I should have played better dont blame yourself I'm voting for the person I think is scum. I fail to see how that is scummy. Only to change his decision an hour later with: On August 21 2011 10:29 chaos13 wrote:
Whatever. Sevryn is probably town and I don't want to see him lynched so He switched to Rayzor at the moment when everyone awake had to do it in order to remain unsuspicous and it was also clear that there would be a lynch no matter what. In case Rayzor is town, both lynchings are okay for mafia, so they lose nothing. Overall, hardly said anything useful all day long, yet he kept on going about how town is not organised and others aren't contributing.Also, I'm not happy with this bit: His defense (Mig's), just like chaoser's original accusation, feels false to me. I'm really not seeing anything genuine here. Mig as a player has a tendency to become very involved in the game, actively scumhunting, leading people, and basically taking control. This is such a passive defense, and is weak for such a strong player. I don't see much substance to it. This isn't an accusation of Mig, I just want to see if anyone else felt the same way about this post as I did. He goes on and on about how the other players bring nothing to the table and to do this he writes a whole paragraph that can be reduced to half a sentence. P.S. A reply to Curu's post from earlier today: + Show Spoiler +On August 23 2011 20:42 Curu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2011 18:30 xtfftc wrote:Wall of text incoming: On August 23 2011 11:37 Curu wrote:
xtffc's "two town kills" slip definitely needs to be looked at, and I don't buy his defense. He describes town kills as kills that the Town makes, but that has absolutely nothing to do with modkills. Town does not control modkills, sick slip????? Of course townkills have nothing to do with modkills. Townkills are made by town, modkills by mods. What is the problem? You posted about "we need to get two town kills." That's taken to mean killing two townies - you tried to explain it away by saying town kills are kills controlled by the town = lynch and modkill. I pointed out modkill is not controlled by the Town, you agree with me. So...what did you mean by town kill? I see now. The town already wanted to kill Sevryn when Wherebugsgo suggested that he is likely to be modkilled. So even though he would have technically been killed by a mod, it was going to be what the majority wanted. You said you were suspicious of him this morning? Why didn't you share write it down in the thread then? This defense comes out of the nowhere. There are two possibilities. Either you are scum and you want to protect your scumbuddy. Or you are scum, you know you will die tonight, so you defend someone, because you want us to believe he's scum, too. after you flip red.
Or I was too busy defending myself from your annoying tunneling and didn't have the time to spend on a usefull case.
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On August 24 2011 04:28 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 04:23 xtfftc wrote:On August 24 2011 04:13 Curu wrote:
Oh there's xtfftc. Ninja'd. To be fair, I was online all day but there were like five new posts every time I refreshed and I felt that there was enough spam without my help. At one point I thought that DropBear was DT but had suddenly realised that he might be insane or paranoid. Hence he wanted to lynch the person he checked on Night 1 to find out whether he is sane or not before picking up a target for Night 2. But then he came back to confess. share your thought about nard and kurumi please. I asked you about these guys like 10 times and you never answered. You don't have to be upset because I vote for you. It's nothing personal, I just think that you are scum. You never ever accuse anyone in here, just like nard, you just keep summarizing what happens...
I've taken no offense. As I already said, although I am happy to answer anyone else's questions, I find your obsession detrimental to town's play. I did answer a lot of your accusations in detail and I also answered QuickSilver, Wherebugsgo, and BrownBear's - and yet instead of commenting on what I said, you just come up with new questions. If you contribute with something, I'd be inclined to spend more time on you.
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On August 24 2011 04:56 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 02:54 xtfftc wrote:On August 21 2011 02:31 Curu wrote:
Hi xtffffffffffffc, what's your opinion on Sevyrn? If I don't answer QuickSilver, people will claim that I have nothing to say in my defense. I am still waiting for this one. You have a tendency to ignore accusations towards you. No bad strategy... if you're scum! Because you don't have to share any informations.
Yet again you prove that you don't actually bother reading carefully. I already answered to these.
On August 24 2011 04:56 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 03:24 xtfftc wrote:
By the way, I have to apologise to supersoft - I just noticed that I didn't post in the voting thread, which was probably the reason he put me on his list (although it's still kind of sloppy).
So I'm going to vote after Sevryn defends himself. Palmar, DropBear and BrownBear are a story that has to develop further. Why don't you just vote him until he convincingly defends himself? You knew he was town - scum knows best - so you waited a little bit...
After I posted this "I'm going to vote after Sevryn defends himself", you read this as a proof that we were both mafia and I was trying to defend Sevryn. Now you claim that I knew he was town because I was mafia, yet I decided to attract additional attention to myself by not voting for him. Make up your mind already.
On August 24 2011 04:56 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2011 04:42 xtfftc wrote:
My gut says supersoft and QuickSilver but my gut is biased and wants those who go after me dead ^^ Although Supersoft being so cautious when defending Sevryn and yet so aggressive against me and his earlier bandwagonning is something worth remembering.
I want to hear more from DropBear and BlackBear. I do not find DropBear particularly suspicious but he still has to answer the questions raised. BlackBear is suspicious (going too agressively against inactive players, some random accusations) and, unlike DropBear, is a target we might get a majority for.
Hiro, judging by the OP I think we have about 6 hours left.
accusing Quicksilver the vig, that built a reasonable case against you. And you also attack DB slightly but very careful. You don't really care, your vote will remain on severyn the VT anyway.
1. I did not accuse QuickSilver.
2. It was Day 1; QuickSilver's role has absolutely no relevance whatsoever - and I already pointed this out to you last time I replied to it.
he defends chaos13.
Right after I wrote a post about what I found suspicious in Chaos13's behaviour and attempted to start a discussion about him...
On August 24 2011 05:11 RayzorFlash wrote:
Sorry guys, I've had computer issues since last night, and still do, lol...
I have no problem with lynching either Hiro or Xtfftc, so long as its not a no-lynch...
Last time you posted about me you said there was no obvious tell that I was mafia. Care to explain why you changed your mind?
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We have 8 votes for Mig and 6 for Hiro. They are followed by DropBear and myself with 2 each.
I am leaning towards Hiro at the moment. I can see how his voting pattern might actually make sense for a mafia player. He has taken a stance against pretty much everyone accused, so in a way he has pleased everyone without focusing on a specific target.
Also, this:
On August 24 2011 07:52 hiro protagonist wrote:
If I am the leading vote with 10 minutes left. I will switch to myself so there might be a lynch.
How can a 100% confirmed townie's death be better than a no-lynch? It's not like Hiro's death is going to give us some concrete information.
So,
##Vote: hiro protagonist
I will check the thread before I go to bed in ~45 minutes and I'll switch to Mig if we are facing the prospect of a no-lynch.
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Apparently there's 7 votes on Mig, my bad.
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I thought of something else.
Lynching DropBear tonight shouldn't be mafia's priority. They (probably, I believe Foolishness) have a roleblocker and they can probably snipe someone more dangerous - or DropBear himself.
Before DropBear claimed DT and subsequently medic, Mig was pushing the case against him aggressively. Once DropBear claimed, Mig said nothing more. No reevaluation of his case and no opinion on whether he believes the claim or not. He simply disappeared. I'd like to hear his opinion on this before it's too late.
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Palmar, are you happy to push Chaos13's lynch with the condition that in case he is town, you die next?
Mig, the only thing you have said about Hiro until now is that:
On August 23 2011 10:52 Mig wrote:
hiro - has contributed nothing but seems much more active than when I played with him in AA and he was scum. His posts also feel more bold to me, he was a lot more reserved and skittish before. So leaning town.
However, Hiro just said:
On August 24 2011 08:32 hiro protagonist wrote:
Palmar is right about my scum meta, but the funny thing is, the same could be said about my town meta. Im super passive, and in all of my past games as town I all ways wondered why I cant be more active. and its because Im to afraid of being wrong that I dont say anything. In RTM I had 3 people in my scum list that where actual scum by the end of the game, but I was afraid to mislynch. I wanted to change that.
Do you have anything more to add to this?
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I do think that Chaos13 is suspicious and attempted to start a discussion on him earlier today but no one bothered. Palmar started it way too late and it doesn't feel right; I am much more inclinded to believe that Palmar is mafia as well now.
I am sticking to my vote for Hiro and will be going to bed pretty soon.
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Hope Lucidity didn't go to bed without actually voting.
Also hope Rayzor's phone didn't run out of battery.
On August 24 2011 09:59 Palmar wrote:
I'm just going to sleep,
Mig is/was leading the race, vote for him so we can kill another townie.
Hiro has 9 votes, Mig has 5.
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11 for Hiro
+ Show Spoiler +1 lucidity
2 mig
3 jackal
4 vain
5 xtfftc
6 rayzor
7 viscera
8 curu
9 varpulis
10 wherebugsgo
11 kurumi
5 for Mig
+ Show Spoiler +1 palmar
2 foolishness
3 chaoser
4 dropbear
5 pyo
14 needed for a majority.
Also, Hiro claimed earlier that he is willing to vote for himself to prevent a no-lynch.
Also, Palmar disappeared after claiming that Mig is town and voting for him nevertheless, although Mig only had 5 votes to Hiro's 9.
Night everyone.
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Supersoft made two comments on Hiro before there were 10+ votes for the lynch..
On August 24 2011 05:30 supersoft wrote:
i believe hero is innocent and mafia is superhappy because they save xtfftc today...
at least i am schocked how fast that hiro bandwagon started out of the nowhere...
This one is the first. Just like with Sevryn, he was convinced in Hiro's innocence without bothering to explain why.
And this exchange with Kurumi:
On August 24 2011 05:31 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 05:30 supersoft wrote:
i believe hero is innocent and mafia is superhappy because they save xtfftc today...
at least i am schocked how fast that hiro bandwagon started out of the nowhere... that's it if hiro flips scum You better have a witch doctor with magic words of course because my are better voting hiro
On August 24 2011 05:55 supersoft wrote:
And if you want to create a connection between me and hiro, go ahead. I am not afraid to share my thoughts. I might be wrong, if you want to lynch me for being wrong please do so. A pro-town atmosphere is different.
He is so sure that Hiro is town that he is willing to put his life on it.
Also,
On August 24 2011 05:55 supersoft wrote:
I just want to prevent another mislynch. You refused to listen to me at day1. I believe I was one of the few people that questioned sevs guilt right from the start. And I didn't do it to gain towncredit later on. I actually tried to prevent the lynch and I encouraged him to contribute. I am afraid that the same thing will happen again. 14 Votes needed for a majority. Mafia only needs to convince 8 people out of the remaining 21.
Right after claiming that he didn't defend Sevryn to gain towncredit, he reminds us that he tried to prevent the lynch.
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I don't like Kurumi's behaviour and reasoning. He spent a lot of time to make sure everyone knew that he is vigilante and he's going after Supersoft.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 24 2011 05:37 Kurumi wrote:
supersoft, maybe instead of asking xtfftc over and over again what he thinks about me and nard, maybe voice Your own opinion?
oh wait
You can't outsmart the bullet hammer On August 24 2011 05:46 Kurumi wrote:then don't I will smash him with my hammer no prob On August 24 2011 05:51 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 05:50 Palmar wrote:
Thing is, Hiro always lurks hardcore as scum and contributes almost nothing. The reason I don't think he's going to change that meta is that it's worked very well in the past for him. This game he seems very open and speaks his mind quite freely. I have only one hammer, don't cover Your brobro supersuperbro On August 24 2011 07:24 Kurumi wrote:
Well guys, then hiro protagonist will try to outsmart the bullet during the night. Oh wait, it's a HAMMER. There's a link between supersoft+Palmar and hiro protagonist, in my opinion it's a very good lynch given that AND he is scummy as heck and I do believe he is scum. On August 25 2011 00:36 Kurumi wrote:
supersoft won't make it tomorrow, I sincerely apologize, but dead scum is something we need. On August 25 2011 00:45 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 00:38 supersoft wrote:
Well kurumi, I thought that you wanted to lynch me if hiro flips red. Do You think I am dumb? Just because You weren't on wagon which led on townie lynch does not make You a townie, same goes with lynches going on mafia. Sure, You CAN be Town, but there are many shenanigans which could happen. On August 25 2011 05:12 Kurumi wrote:
I totally don't need medic protect as vigilante ;u; sob On August 25 2011 08:39 Kurumi wrote:
Hi iGrok *waves*
I just want to see supersoft flip. I need to wait till 4am >_>
Surely if he wanted to trick mafia to RB him or heal Supersoft, he would have been a bit more subtle to make it less obvious that he is setting up a trap? Instead, he kept on repeating it again and again, as if there wasn't enough spam in the thread already.
Pretty much everyone had town reads on both Palmar and Supersoft. Yet, Kurumi based his shot on the assumption that at least one and perhaps both of them were mafia. If he gets blocked, Supersoft is red; if he doesn't Palmar dies. When he didn't get roleblocked, he decided to stick to Supersoft nevertheless. Moreover, he claimed that :
There's a link between supersoft+Palmar and hiro protagonist
Hiro flipped town, Palmar flipped town - and he still wants to lynch Supersoft?
He claimed he was trying to trick mafia to RB him/protect Supersoft but if he was intending to go after Palmar anyway, why did he accuse Palmar in the first place? Surely he wouldn't want a mafia player to know that he is next in line.
His only relatively decent analysis was on Navillus in early Day 1:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 20 2011 23:41 Kurumi wrote:
I dislike Palmar's random fingerpointing and not dedicating his vote to any of the candidates presented, why?. This is not promoting pro-town atmosphere, though he made a case on BrownBear. I think Palmar would be a good DT check or just person to look at tomorrow.
I think we should lynch Navillus. He jumped on quick Palmar bandwagon with shoddy reasoning ("he is shouting kill DropBear").
Let's recap what Navillus have done:
-say I am trolling / will troll / am useless / anti-town in the first hours of the game all over again
-vote for me just because of that
-unvote me without any reason (besides "You started to contribute")
-tried to coordinate blues (Town KP should shoot lurkers, really good deal for Mafia, because hatters will have useless bombs planted and vigis will waste their only one shot they have)
-disappeared during the most active time of the day.
##vote Navillus
I'll see what Sevryn has done. Palmar is not good lynch today, I feel his lynch is a bit Kavdragon-ish from PYPI I've played.
Since then he has hardly contributed anything but one-liners and pointing the finger at a lot of people. Which is even more suspicious considering that he accused Palmar of the very same thing:
On August 20 2011 23:41 Kurumi wrote:
I dislike Palmar's random fingerpointing and not dedicating his vote to any of the candidates presented, why?. This is not promoting pro-town atmosphere, though he made a case on BrownBear. I think Palmar would be a good DT check or just person to look at tomorrow.
Kurumi hasn't been promoting pro-town atmosphere. He also isn't dedicating his vote to any of the real lynch candidates at the moment and is instead going after Supersoft.
When he got asked to justify his post on Mig, he redirected the question by basing it on what Foolishness and DB without providing anything on his own. He suggested that he has to re-read the thread but never expanded on this.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 24 2011 04:55 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 04:51 Curu wrote:On August 24 2011 04:49 Kurumi wrote:On August 24 2011 04:48 Curu wrote:
Can we get a hiro wagon going? This guy's looking a lot worse than xtfftc.
##Unvote
Vote hiro protagonist nah let's lynch Mig You don't even have a post about Mig and suddenly he's your lynch target? Why? Cause he's the one with the most votes on him? We have important Foolishness+DropBear link on that lynch, couple of players who are here for a while (chaoser and Jackal58), the more we know about these people (who are quite active and well-spoken) the better for us. I dunno I should re-read the thread since I've got time now.
He had a clash - or "clash" - with Mig, which served to strengthen the case against Hiro.
+ Show Spoiler +On August 24 2011 09:31 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 09:28 Mig wrote:On August 24 2011 09:22 xtfftc wrote:
Do you have anything more to add to this? I am not going to claim to know for sure whether hiro is town or not. But everytime I have played with him he has been a lot more passive/quiet. And when he is scum he seems more afraid to give his opinion. That leads me to believe he is more likely town than someone like chaos who has shown poor logic and hasn't actually put any effort into the game. You dont find hiro scummy at all ? There's nothing what felt wrong about his posting ? He was caught on posting with scum agenda , three people including You are trying hard to deflect his lynch , everyone of You seem to pull a meta argument and add nothing from this game itself .
His posts while both Hiro and Mig were viable candidates urged everyone to pick Hiro over Mig. When Palmar tried to push Mig instead of Hiro, he opposed him as well:
On August 24 2011 09:47 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 09:46 Palmar wrote:
I prefer mig.
Chaos gets to die another day. Of course You prefer MIG because Town might not get enough votes for hiro and we get a no lynch .
Also:
On August 24 2011 09:48 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2011 09:47 hiro protagonist wrote:
how can anyone not see that Im a Vet? Thanks for claiming roleblocker or other power role , MIG is just a goon.
On August 24 2011 09:52 Kurumi wrote:
Vet claim is here to save hiro who has mafia power role , probably roleblocker for mig who is just a goon.
So, he accused Mig without providing a proper analysis; then he pushed Hiro, a townie, over Mig; then he shot Palmar, another townie; and now, when there are a lot of voices against Mig, he is going after Supersoft.
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Another thing about Mig.
Palmar was convinced in his innocence because Mig explained his relative inactivity with being "burned out" and deducted that Mig wouldn't use an excuse like this to divert accusations. This is the post Palmar was referring to:
On August 23 2011 09:19 Mig wrote:
My activity this game has been a lot lower than most of my games. I am really burned out on mafia right now. I have played too many games recently and I am going to take a break after this game. I have to force myself just to actually read the thread. It is no excuse for my poor play but it is the truth. So if I am lynched because of it my apologies for sucking.
But is no one else seeing the extremely poor reasoning behind some of the people jumping on my bandwagon?
Jackal - gives no reason whatsoever for voting me
dropbear - First you say you are ok with hiro because he tried to lead the lynch off of sevryn. Wtf I was trying to get people to vote chaoser before the rayzor bandwagon even really got started. And you even agreed with me while I was trying to make it happen. You then proceed to vote for me without giving a single reason.
Varp - Did you even read my post about meta arguments or did you just intentionally ignore the meaning of it? I am not against meta arguments. I used meta arguments to help get you lynched in the last game we played together. I use meta pretty much every game I play. My entire point was foolishness' meta argument was trash and didn't actually show I was scum at all.
Curu - just a pure meta reason
Nobody has defended me at all this game. Has my play really been so scummy this game that if I were mafia not a single one of my team members would be willing to try and save me?
If am lynched because of my poor play it's my own fault but people should take a look at everything surrounding my bandwagon.
Anyway it doesn't appear I have any shot at convincing people to vote chaoser so I will write up a case on who I feel is the next scummiest in the next few minutes.
All Mig wrote on him being burned out was this one paragraph. Judging by the respect everyone has for Mig, I'm pretty sure that he is a good enough player to be active even when he plays as mafia. Palmar put too much emphasis on this offhand comment and claimed that Mig wouldn't use such a "dirty" trick. Afterwards, Mig started posting a lot.
Let us presume that Mig is mafia indeed. He doesn't have the motivation to be his usual self and attracts suspicion. Palmar uses this lack of motivation to wrongly deduct that Mig is town because a mafia Mig would play fair and wouldn't use something like this to make his game easier. And then Mig, who never wanted an easy game and was just honest that he is not in the mood for mafia at the moment, feels compelled to increase his activity because he doesn't want to ruin the game for everyone else. It fits pretty well.
Mig being guilty also fits with my mafia read on Kurumi.
##Vote: Mig
On August 26 2011 04:50 Foolishness wrote:
In the meantime, I would like to hear peoples' opinions about the following 3 people:
1) nard
2) Lucidity
3) Trotske (now iGrok. I'm mainly focused on Trotske's posting since iGrok just joined in).
1) Nard's posts so far have been calls for town to get organised and not much more. He posted some analysis on Hiro and a defence of Mig near the deadline when it was obvious that Hiro was getting lynched. Apart from that he's been content to just stay out of the spotlight and deflect Supersoft's feeble attacks.
2) Lucidity doesn't have a lot of posts to be analysed. He wanted DropBear lynched yesterday at a time when I thought mafia wouldn't push for it. However, he was also one of the players who pushed for my lynch over Mig's and keeps on finding excuses about not contributing. First he was busy over the weekend, then he had a problem with wordy posts. He went after Supersoft at the beginning of Day 3 and even though Supersoft didn't bother explaining his actions, did not develop it further. But this isn't that much to work with really. I wouldn't be surprised if he is the one that needs replacement.
3) Trotske is impossible to read, so iGrok gets a headstart in case he is mafia. He seems to be eager to contribute but this means nothing for now.
All three are suspicious because of their lack of contributions but Nard is the best shot. iTrotske is just a coinflip at the moment. Lucidity has been looking for excuses and will eventually run out of them. Nard, however, simply doesn't post much but fluff.
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Mig, who did you track on Night 1?
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On August 26 2011 19:12 Erandorr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 19:04 Mig wrote:I was hoping I wouldn't have to claim but with everyone bandwagoning me doesn't look like there is much of a choice. I am a tracker Undead Hunter - welcome to TL Mafia XLIV you are Udit the Nightstalker. You are well known for being the only man alive to have followed a nightwalker at night and lived to tell the tale. The battle you had with it in the deep underground lair of Uzurki is still recounted by the legend keepers of the inquisition. Your thirst for greater challenges has brought you to Liquidia . You challenge yourself every night by following a liquidian , and seeing who they visit, you win when all the cultists are dead, decapitated and with a stake through their heart for good measure. Last night I tracked chaos13 to jackal. So unless he is a watcher/dt/noisy neighbor he is guaranteed red. I bread crumbed this several times with my earlier posts today. Which is why I specifically mentioned why chaos would have the motivation to kill jackal in my posts against him. On August 25 2011 14:26 Mig wrote:
People should really look hard at chaos. And look at the fact that every person who called him out has died and flipped green. On August 25 2011 17:14 Mig wrote:
One last thing. Why did jackal die last night? Was anyone else getting blue vibes from him? I wasn't. Had he been especially active or provided any strong analysis? No. So why was he shot instead of someone like Curu or you barundar?
On August 25 2011 17:14 Mig wrote:
I am hunting you down chaos! So lynch chaos. If he flips red/noisy neighbor I am pretty close to a confirmed tracker. If I am lying and he flips green just vig me tonight. Okay Mig answer me this : Why on earth would you track Chaos and not someone more in doubt , like BB ? I would really love to hear an explanation on that one becuase to me it seems like you just want to get something out of your death at this point.
Also, why JeeJee on Night 1?
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This is a response to Curu's ealier post, spoilered because discussing Mig's claim is priority at the moment.
+ Show Spoiler +Oh, wow. Curu and Supersoft appear simultaneously 36 hours before the deadline and announce that I have refused to vote for Mig, although there are 15 others who haven't at the time. Wow. Okay, here goes. Curu, I addressed my early policy posts already: I wasn't advocating lurking; I was advocating against lynching lurkers. Please read my responses to the previous cases build against me before re-posting the same accusations. If you have anything to say about me responses, great - but completely ignoring the responces reveals that you didn't build a proper case. Then in the VERY SAME POST, he tells Foolishness to consider that Palmar is scum. When called out by Foolishness, he is very adamant in pointing out he did not accuse Foolishness of being Mafia and drops the topic completely rather than trying to argue his point (which was a giant contradiction anyways). I didn't say Palmar was mafia; I said that Foolishness shouldn't rule out the possibility simply because of meta arguments - so there was no other point to argue for. This was also the time when I was trying to motivate Palmar to get his act straight instead of disorganising town. There is no contradiction in my actions. I really don’t understand what is going on in here at all. Okay, I will explain it to you then. I wasn't arguing that Palmar was mafia; I wanted to motivate Palmar to be more constructive because I thought - and still do - that he had a good lead against BrownBear. A townie voting for him is can serve as a wake-up call. And soon after Palmar posted a well-written and rather convincing case. Similarly, DropBear was mentioned because his mayor campaign was rather stupid and I was hoping to incite him to get his act together. My concern was obviously justified as his DT claim on Day 2 was even worse than what he did on Day 1. Out of the three, BrownBear was the only one I was actually suspicious of. When I asked him to tell me right then and there what he felt about Sevyrn, he said Mafia. The thing is, if he was already so sure in his mind that Sevyrn was Mafia, why was his vote not there? No, when you asked me, I said I'd like to spend time analysing and wanted to wait for Sevyrn to defend himself before taking a stance on his alignment. When you pushed me to give you an immediate answer, I said that I think him to be mafia. How convenient of you to forget my initial reply. Will gladly answer questions but won’t offer them unprompted by himself. I had to spend a lot of time defending myself and couldn't provide enough analysis - but I started doing it as soon as things around me quieted down a bit. I posted a few things I think were overlooked by others and I also said that I am willing to answer all questions. Obviously, there is a limit to how much I can read and post. He was very ready and willing to put his vote into Mig when he has never played with Mig before. This is what I said about Mig: Sure.
I'm still just as suspicious of Rayzor as I saw two days ago. His defense ("would a mafia say this?") did not convince me because he was in a position when he had to say something like this. However, just like to days ago, I think that he is someone who should be pressured to talk more until he makes another mistake or we are convinced he is town. Even if he is mafia, he is not particularly dangerous at the moment because he can not influence the town at the moment.
This is why at the moment I'd go for Mig. Although he improved after his early post about Sevryn, he did not provide anything substantial. Also, although a lot of people casted their vote for Sevryn and then went to bed, Mig did it in in the middle tha attempted switch to Rayzor. I would like you to point me to the post where I was " very ready and willing to put" my vote into Mig - or to declare that you made a mistake in your analysis. As a side-note, I still maintain the same position on Rayzor. He has gone into lurking/afk mode, which doesn't help his cause. Quick to claim credit in case Rayzor flipped Mafia. Context, please. I said this after being asked by Supersoft (who was supposedly providing deep analysis of my posts) about my opinion on Rayzor - although I had already posted about Rayzor earlier. He calls Hiro a 100% confirmed Townie (I think under the assumption that Hiro’s self vote would show he is a Townie, but then why not try to convince people not to lynch Hiro?), Okay, really? Hiro says that he is willing to vote for himself even though he is town. Therefore, Hiro knows that he is 100% town - hence my question. I didn't say that I thought he was 100% town, I said that if he is town, he knows it and shouldn't vote for himself no matter what. If both were to be scum though, I don't understand xtfftc avoiding Mig's wagon like the plague today, a red Mig flip would relieve a lot of pressure on him. A lot of people are lurking much more than me, yet if I don't jump on the wagon immediately, I am apparently avoiding it. You could have at least given me the time to join it or avoid it. Not even a single mention of lynching Mig, instead actually chainsawing Mig’s attackers. Kurumi was after Supersoft; you are just making up stuff again. Who did I "chainsaw" apart from him? The only thing I can't see is both of them being Town since votes probably would've consolidated on one of them in that case, there was no need for scum to try to oppose either one. I don't see the logic behind this. It's not like there were 20 votes for us, there were less than 10 combined. On August 26 2011 07:22 supersoft wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 07:14 Curu wrote:
And I don't agree with that assumption supersoft, a Town Mig is not a hot kill target because:
1) He's suspected
2) If Mig were to die and flip Town xtfftc would very likely be turbolynched
There are many reasonable explanations for why Mig, if he is Town, was untouched by Mafia. I don't think that should be used as any indication. hmm you're right. However at least I think it's strange that absolutely no scum voted him. (assuming that I am correct with my judgements over these people) As for xtfftc who refuses to vote for mig and prefers to go for kurumi; I think it might be possible that he underestimates the case against him. Therefor he tries to establish another target with a huge post to peel of votes from mig. At the point of time when he accused kurumi, I already posted that kurumi might be scum because of the possibility of a acum vigilante. So he wasn't completely alone with that. How dare I post an analysis on a suspicious player 44 hours before the deadline... And apparently I have refused to vote for Mig. Extremely suspicious indeed. Not at all like voting for Rayzor and changing your vote for Mig an hour and four posts later with this as reasoning: Since noone is up for a Rayzorflashlynch, I vote for mig. Who knows if we find a majority for him tomorrow.
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Curu, just because there is a theory that mafia tried to shift the attention from Mig to me, doesn't mean that if this theory is wrong, I am mafia. If both Hiro and Mig end up flipping, the argument that I avoided voting for Mig beucase I knew he was town doesn't make any sense as I voted for Hiro, another townie. If anything, mafia would have preferred Mig dead because he is the more dangerous player.
As to Mig's claim, I reckon both him and Chaos13 are mafia and are trying to get something out of Mig's lynch.
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EPT
