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p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 11 2012 09:00 GMT

#318

has this started yet? decided I'd like to play.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 11 2012 19:42 GMT

#332

On January 12 2012 03:37 Liquid`Sheth wrote:

Show nested quote +

This time "he" isn't in the game with us. -.-

hahaha poor Vorush I'll never forget his nickname now at future events.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 12 2012 04:28 GMT

#352

On January 12 2012 10:05 GMarshal wrote:
This game is surprisingly low on third parties.

Can we get some serial killers? Or survivors? Or Village Idiots? Planar Dragons?

All four?

I feel compelled to know the definition of all of these roles.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 13 2012 20:10 GMT

#690

Damn I thought we still had like a day until we had enough people to start this. I've got a lot of catching up to do by the looks of things.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 14 2012 01:43 GMT

#832

OK so I just finished reading everything from the start of the game yesterday to this point in time. I hate getting behind like this as last game I played I was a sub and was even farther in the dark. Nevertheless moving forward!

So, I'm going to side-step all this mason talk a bit because I have never played a mafia game with this role. I don't know whether it is stronger in the hands of town or in the hands of mafia etc. The only thing I'll say about it is that mass-claim sounds like a really bad idea to me. Whatever power (that I have yet to see in action) we take out of the mafia's hands we give them more in that they have an even better picture about town structure and where other blue roles may lie.

I'd like to discuss who I'm going to support for mayor but honestly all of this mason talk has completely sidetracked my thought process while reading and now I'm gonna have to go back and go through filters. Before BC came out as mayor I have to admit I was leaning towards his corner but now I'm going to reassess everyone's candidacies before I cast my ballot.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 15 2012 01:14 GMT

#1356

It's taking me like 2-3 hours a day to catch up on what I've missed while I slept and was out during the day. -_-

Anyways its due time to be voting for mayor and I'm going to throw in my vote for Protactinium. For reasons very similar to Sheth's I'm happy to vote for someone who isn't distracting town with this discussion about masons, isn't idiotically outing himself, or had his initial candidacy proposed by someone other than himself. He seems focused on getting mafia and that's what I want in a mayor.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 15 2012 01:40 GMT

#1369

On January 15 2012 10:35 Jitsu wrote:

Show nested quote +

o.0

rofl welcome to the game Munk-E now you need to start making some sense asap.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 15 2012 07:36 GMT

#1507

Quite funny as miller he was acting exactly like his apparent scum meta (or so said WBG and crew).

Every time you guys went to meta it just further cemented in my mind he wasn't. If he was mafia surely he would change something up, whereas he was so unabashedly arrogant about his style it seemed clear it was either a) an intentional play to get a rise out of fellow vets and gauge their reaction, or b) he really just didn't want to deal with this nearly 60 page clusterfuck that was day 1.

Tomorrow I'll have to look through all the cases built against Palmar to see if there is actually anything to glean from this but I really doubt there is much. At the least though it should help get some reads on his accusers.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 15 2012 22:36 GMT

#1623

On January 16 2012 05:30 kitaman27 wrote:
p4NDemik's motives seem questionable. I'm curious why he made your town list BM. His entire focus on day one is selecting a mayoral candidate and doesn't mention who he is suspicious of or would like to get lynched.

Since someone pointed out earlier that my filter wasn't working correctly I'll provide it here. Hopefully that works, otherwise I'm not sure why it wouldn't be functioning properly.

I'm not sure how I'm really confirmed town in anyone's eyes either as I've been more or less fairly inactive compared to many of the veterans that post in here. You're right in that pretty much my only focus was the election and I explained my reasoning for that: I've never played in a game with masons, I don't have personal experience to draw upon in the argument as to whether it is a role used better in the hands of town or mafia, and due to this I found the whole debate about them to be quite detrimental to what should have been the main goal in my mind. There was also a large fuss made about this Palmar lynch which however WBG want's to portray it was, in my eyes, 100% based on a meta that I had no knowledge of and therefore didn't care to speak to, either for or against.

I don't see how my focus on the mayoral election is really a bad thing. I wish we had more of it and less extraneous mason talk now.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 06:27 GMT

#1733

evantrees what the hell just happened a few posts ago you are saying how its too early for a double lynch now you're voting for it all of the sudden.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 21:02 GMT

#1829

Nisani your argument is actually pretty compelling. I'm also extremely suspicious of Protactinium now. Especially considering that Ciryandor actually was "torn" about voting for him after he came on so hard for his own lynch. Prot came on hard with a long accusation, to which Ciryandor posted no reply for 2 days. I don't understand why Prot wouldn't find it suspicious at all that someone who he so adamantly accused a day ago was now considering his corner without even speaking to his accusation. I feel like one thing that very consistently annoys town (especially someone who is trying to be high-profile and win an election) is when their questions go unanswered, and we have a clear cut case of it here. Even if your focus changes to another person who you think is more likely mafia you still don't let someone completely off the hook like that.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 21:10 GMT

#1832

Protactinium can you speak to why you didn't follow up at all on your original plan to lynch Ciryandor? No follow-up questions after he became active like a day and a half after you accused him? Going back your campaign looks like 100% presentation with little actual pro-town behavior going on in between them. I'm a bit ashamed now that I actually got caught up in those big flashy posts and didn't question you actions (or lack there of) in between.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 21:14 GMT

#1833

On January 17 2012 06:05 evantrees wrote:

Show nested quote +

We seem to have a lot of lynch candidates so I am up for considering lynching two of them day 3.

I said this and followed that up for a vote for a double lynch in the voting thread.
Double Lynch tomorrow?
To soon unless we come up with some damned good candidates for lynch. Rereading description sure lets try for a day 3 double lynch should probably wait till day 5 at least for the second one though so we can get information from the first then decide when we want to use the second

To make certain. Does the double lynch happens the day after it is voted to be enacted or is it enacted the same day?

Read it incorrectly the first time and seems like Meapak_Ziphh may have as well or so this makes me think ,I expect there are others who did too.

Show nested quote +

Double Lynch
Usable two times per game, the double lynch means the town lynches two people instead of one for that day. This means on the next day everyone gets two votes to distribute between two different people. The double lynch is activated by voting for it in addition to a player (or players if a double lynch is currently activated). The vote must exceed half the number of players voting that day. For instance, if there are 30 players voting then the town needs 16 votes to use a double lynch. Double lynches may be voted on starting Day 2. You may use double lynches on consecutive days.

and since flamewheel is being a meany. Filter list didn't have a copy of the old one to start with so somewhat messy.
+ Show Spoiler +

sigh reading comprehension fail remembered the first part then blanked on the second part that was in bold

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 21:15 GMT

#1834

rather that you put in bold now after the fact. regardless it makes sense to me now.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 21:31 GMT

#1839

Totally forgot you made that post on the other account during night before Ciryandor was killed. fml i feel like I'm facepalming every time I open my mouth today.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 21:51 GMT

#1843

I really don't like GGQ for a lynch candidate btw. Ciryandor was antagonistic and had the same reaction to his posts as he did other townie's accusations. I think he would react differently if he was speaking to a fellow mafia.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 22:47 GMT

#1862

Meapak I explained my reasoning clearly and to the point in that post. Ciryandor's behavior in shirking off complaints town brought against him exactly mirrors how he responded to GGQ. I would expect some shift in behavior if he was discrediting a complaint another mafia brought against him. Furthermore when GGQ makes a slight jab at Ciryandor, Ciry wholeheartedly deflects and points the finger back at GGQ. I don't see this as how two mafia would interact. Unless they're really bad.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 23:22 GMT

#1882

Toad can you please be less ambiguous are you talking about Proact or Sandro?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 16 2012 23:41 GMT

#1893

WBG why are you all of the sudden posting in 3rd person? That's like the most suspicious thing I've ever seen lol. Now I need to read your entire filter.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 00:02 GMT

#1910

Repeat. wherebugsgo: Why are you all of the sudden posting in 3rd person?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 00:06 GMT

#1914

People speaking in 3rd person is odd in all walks of life man.

You haven't done anything similar to this all game so I find it very strange.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 00:10 GMT

#1915

And you referred to yourself in the 3rd person, even if you weren't narrating the entire post that was it is a marked diversion from how you were previously posting and I don't like it. I don't like it one bit I say!

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 00:20 GMT

#1919

On January 17 2012 09:18 Kenpachi wrote:

Show nested quote +

what the fuck. are you joking or something

No. I'm most definitely getting carried away with this but I'm not joking.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 00:34 GMT

#1921

Kenpachi can you stop trying to make me feel like I'm an idiot and explain to me why I am an idiot. Actually explain anything please because you seem to have done nothing in the grand scheme of things.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 00:41 GMT

#1925

On January 17 2012 08:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
##vote Protactinium

On my phone; in short, massive slip. When the "day 1 summary" was posted by Protactinium, it suggested that there was pre-knowledge that the chaos was town-induced.
Note how Protactinium never questions that the people who pushed Palmar for lynch (WBG and other hardliners) were anything but town. It's not possible to make absolute generalizations like Protactinium is doing unless there's knowledge that those generalizations are true. That knowledge is only available to scum.

I'll post more about this shortly when I get comp access.

As opposed to: "Note how Protactinium never questions that I or the other people who pushed Palmar for lynch were anything but town"

This is the line that I'm wondering about. I don't know why you are claiming it doesn't exist or why you are so indignant. It just read incredibly fishy. I've never referred to myself like this online and I've never seen anyone else do it. You aren't omitting anything you substituted in an acronym for your nickname that I have never seen you use and everyone else commonly uses.

Add Kenpachi coming out of no where to make me feel like a dipshit with no reasoning and I'm just more suspicious.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 00:53 GMT

#1933

wherebugsgo if you could so kindly link to the post that Protact used that phrase then I might think about removing my vote for you to be lynched. Because right now I can't find that in Protactinium's or Incognito's posting history and now I'm pretty sure you're just straight up lying to me.

Maybe you're paraphrasing and I've caught you on absolutely nothing but for now I'm putting in my vote to ##vote wherebugsgo

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 01:26 GMT

#1957

It lowers the KP purely by numbers it has nothing to do with locking up the "right" mafia.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 01:34 GMT

#1965

On January 17 2012 10:27 wherebugsgo wrote:

Show nested quote +

LOL

You're jailing them to lower their KP? Is that even how the KP functions in this game?

You should be jailing to protect. Also, you're pretty much wrong about mafia KP being 3 yesterday. If you truly believe mafia KP was 3 why aren't you calling kita scum for his hit claim?

Show nested quote +

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=253716&currentpage=93#1860

Show nested quote +

it wasn't a direct quote since I was on my phone, I just paraphrased it.

fair enough. kenpachi if this is why you were scolding me you're justified but stop being a dick and start being helpful please.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 17 2012 21:55 GMT

#2268

Wow Macpo please give me more of a reason to not vote for you.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 04:01 GMT

#2561

I've been incredibly lazy over the last few days (I've been reading the thread but the first couple of days left me pretty burnt out -___-

Anyways I'm all for voting Bill Murray as his behavior yesterday was incredibly erratic. Which leads me to this post and my second vote:

On January 18 2012 11:20 supersoft wrote:
I am voting Chaosquo. I like cybercheeses case against him the most.
The case against BM is hard to understand for me right now. I propose that we lynch this macpo guy (even if town, he's no real loss/he won't be able to reestablish his innocence even if he's town) and Caosque.

I just read through BMs filter and I don't see it.

This post seems extremely odd for a number of reasons, first of all he has this proposition that we lynch macpo, but refuses in putting his vote in for him. I cannot understand why a townie would come in with a post explaining his vote and feel it necessary to express his distaste for another player he wasn't voting for but oddly still supports lynching. Feels like he doesn't want to vote Macpo but at the same time wants to get in this last sliver of distrust so his intentions aren't questioned at the time.

Secondly, he just latches on to another case when explaining his vote (keep in mind even cybercheese didn't feel strongly enough to vote for Chaosquo), this feels like a lazy cop-out for having to post an explanation.

Finally he has this bit about the case against BM being hard to understand. I have this as the weakest point because it is buttressed if BM flips red, but I thought all along the BM case was incredibly clear cut. He made some odd claims and had a lot of erratic behavior, which not surprisingly drew a lot of suspicion. Even if you don't agree with it I don't think it at any time has been difficult to grasp why people want him lynched.

Couple that with this suspicious chain of posts following L's candidacy for Mayor and I feel strongly enough to make this my second vote today.

"Maybe I'll vote for L" "BM most likely town!!" bs #mafiatalk

##Vote Bill Murray and ##Vote supersoft guys!! Ferrr liquidia!

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 04:12 GMT

#2574

Holy shit guys stop spamming. We have people with actual accusations to consider here. Namely me.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 04:16 GMT

#2579

I want town to remember this page when supersoft flips scum. Remember the names of these fools who are mindlessly spamming.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 04:18 GMT

#2581

Why are you more concerned about one theory more than another. Stop doing everything you can to spam this accusation under the rug and consider all possibilities for the sake of town. Also wtf are you talking about? flamewheel?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 04:20 GMT

#2586

Can someone please speak to the actual content of my accusation? You guys are acting like children on the playground.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 04:32 GMT

#2595

I don't care about Chaosquo at all. What I care about is that you went with the case of a player who didn't even believe in the case enough to vote for Chaosquo. There was NO support leading up to your vote. No one giving a compelling case. You look like you are just making a lazy vote that you don't care about at all. You lead on like you want Macpo lynched but the motive looks to be clearly that of a mafia - to cover up your true alignment and to make you look town.

And VE I know we have a lot of candidates. The important thing is that we get the ones we feel the most strongly about. And I feel like this case is a home run. Clear cut. Lazy voting behavior. He even manages to bus his own team member while voting for someone else.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 04:46 GMT

#2598

Seriously this seems very akin to the Ciryandor situation. Lazy mafia making a lazy pick. Clearly there was no time invested in deciding who to vote for leading up until his post. He has a few things he needs to do and he does them in nearly as few words as is humanly possible.

1) I need to vote and explain myself - enter line 1: "I am voting Chaosquo. I like cybercheeses case against him the most." GREAT DONE!
2) I need to distance myself from Macpo, he's a goner - enter "I propose that we lynch this macpo guy (even if town, he's no real loss/he won't be able to reestablish his innocence even if he's town) and Caosque." He even says "this macpo guy" yeah "this guy I have no relation to at all, I don't know him, never did, don't get any ideas"
3) (again I'm less sure on this but it fits if BM is mafia) BM looks to be in trouble tomorrow, we can't lose our mafia sheriff, I need to inject some doubt - gives you the junk between where he "can't understand" and "can't see it"

It don't think I could write up a more clear cut case. His not even being able to provide any solid reasoning for disliking a BM lynch just makes me more set.

##vote Bill Murray
##vote supersoft

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 05:14 GMT

#2603

wow mafia throwing in the towel don't want to give up any more of their henchmen.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 05:19 GMT

#2607

All I'm seeing is the overwhelming amount of apathy in those two posts before mine.

"i really didn't care too much about yesterday's lynch"
"i was okay with"
"I don't mind being lynched"

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 05:46 GMT

#2613

You already made your rash post saying you didn't care and you already made your goodbye post Bill. You've been called on it and now you come up with this claim because you realized your previous posts are dead tells and you are sure to be lynched if that is the note you go out on atm.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 08:40 GMT

#2626

Protactinium is regularly catching mafia. So yeah, I haven't been calling him out or anything. If he keeps giving targets that flip red I'm going to continue to think he's pretty green. I don't know why this post drew you to me.

Day 1 during the Mayor vote we had like 20 pages of useless Mason talk, so I spoke to that, what little bit I could but mostly I was disappointed as I said it was very difficult to focus on who was the best candidate during that mess. Yes I didn't make a stand at that exact moment but it was very difficult to do so at the time. The thread was in ruins.

Again I don't see what you are trying to prove by showing my reasoning for voting Protactinium for mayor. I feel that while it isn't the most verbose explanation it is very to the point and says exactly why the other candidates were deficient. It doesn't leave anything to the imagination. I wanted to get a mayor who wanted to hang some mafia members and I voted for one who is 2 for 2 thus far.

As for the Palmar thing, yeah it doesn't help so much when you say "I told you so!" after the fact but I couldn't help myself. The lynch Palmar drive based on meta didn't sit well with me and that was another big factor why I voted for Protactinium. I know I made a promise to go through the thread again, but sometimes I just have to get away from this game it is very time consuming as is and eventually you have to pull yourself away to do other things. That said, I feel I just presented a very strong case and we have 2 for-sure mafia who just exposed themselves in BM and supersoft. I trust that town will see these two for what they really are and take them down.

In the next quote I am not using this "I'm a n00b" defense at all. Kitaman raises a question about why I didn't care about masons/Palmar meta discussion and instead only cared about the election. I told him I don't have experience with masons and I have never played with Palmar to know the meta that the lynch was based upon. But I never said "I'm a n00b." You're really grasping at straws here if that's what you got out of it.

Now you list a hoarde of posts that are short questions. I saw what I thought were questionable actions by players. In a few of the cases they were misunderstandings and mistakes in reading what was posted. They were very real. I thought wherebugsgo made a serious slip for a second and voted for him but I was proven wrong and shown that he was just paraphrasing what someone else said. It wasn't obvious and it was quite confusing as there was no context given. Kenpachi swoops in being the troll he is and gets under my skin a little. I'm human. Whoop de doo.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 08:46 GMT

#2627

If this is the best mafia can do to discredit me then that's pretty sad. We have them on the ropes townies don't let up on the pressure. BM and supersoft clearly are into some dirty business here.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 08:54 GMT

#2629

Where's the fun in that though? Kenpachi please explain your vote it makes 0.0000000000 sense at all.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 09:25 GMT

#2632

VE I thought you agreed with my case against BM and supersoft. Why are you recanting that so quickly?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 10:31 GMT

#2636

I'm not saying you never voted for him, I'm saying at the time that supersoft voted for him you were no longer voting for him.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 10:43 GMT

#2638

To extrapolate on that point:

He voted for lynching Chaosquo like 1 hour before the deadline, a full 6 hours after you had decided yourself that it wasn't the best option and instead opted for Bill Murray. He piggy backs on your original argument randomly when even you aren't still pushing for the Chaosquo lynch.

If he is going down the road of "I trust CC's way of thinking" its even more odd that he would follow your original line of thinking but be so sheepish about continuing to follow you into voting for Bill Murray. Instead he opts to make the weakest defense ever and can't even put together the slightest semblance of reasoning for why he is doing so.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 10:47 GMT

#2639

I'm headed to bed please read over my case against supersoft and BM I'm convinced we have a 2 for 2 day here and I hope everyone can see through whatever weak accusations kingjames brought against me. I don't know what his intentions are or if he is trying to get his buddies out of a tight spot but the best part is we've still got like 40 hours to analyze further suspects after we decide on this lynch. We're getting close guys, should have their KP reduced even more very soon!

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 21:23 GMT

#2702

VE you baffle me. You totally agree with the biggest push I have made in the game up until this point, put in your vote to that effect, but you continue to swing wildly back and forth and put your vote back onto me. You acknowledge that I have a solid case, but just because kingjames keeps pushing me you keep forgetting that and voting for me. The most telling thing I have done all game is this lynch against supersoft and bill murray, I've drawn a line in the sand and you've said you agreed with that. This fact should carry more weight than me making some mistakes earlier in the game.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 21:39 GMT

#2703

On January 19 2012 23:07 kingjames01 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 19 2012 17:40 p4NDemik wrote:
Protactinium is regularly catching mafia. So yeah, I haven't been calling him out or anything. If he keeps giving targets that flip red I'm going to continue to think he's pretty green. I don't know why this post drew you to me.

Day 1 during the Mayor vote we had like 20 pages of useless Mason talk, so I spoke to that, what little bit I could but mostly I was disappointed as I said it was very difficult to focus on who was the best candidate during that mess. Yes I didn't make a stand at that exact moment but it was very difficult to do so at the time. The thread was in ruins.

Again I don't see what you are trying to prove by showing my reasoning for voting Protactinium for mayor. I feel that while it isn't the most verbose explanation it is very to the point and says exactly why the other candidates were deficient. It doesn't leave anything to the imagination. I wanted to get a mayor who wanted to hang some mafia members and I voted for one who is 2 for 2 thus far.

As for the Palmar thing, yeah it doesn't help so much when you say "I told you so!" after the fact but I couldn't help myself. The lynch Palmar drive based on meta didn't sit well with me and that was another big factor why I voted for Protactinium. I know I made a promise to go through the thread again, but sometimes I just have to get away from this game it is very time consuming as is and eventually you have to pull yourself away to do other things. That said, I feel I just presented a very strong case and we have 2 for-sure mafia who just exposed themselves in BM and supersoft. I trust that town will see these two for what they really are and take them down.

In the next quote I am not using this "I'm a n00b" defense at all. Kitaman raises a question about why I didn't care about masons/Palmar meta discussion and instead only cared about the election. I told him I don't have experience with masons and I have never played with Palmar to know the meta that the lynch was based upon. But I never said "I'm a n00b." You're really grasping at straws here if that's what you got out of it.

Now you list a hoarde of posts that are short questions. I saw what I thought were questionable actions by players. In a few of the cases they were misunderstandings and mistakes in reading what was posted. They were very real. I thought wherebugsgo made a serious slip for a second and voted for him but I was proven wrong and shown that he was just paraphrasing what someone else said. It wasn't obvious and it was quite confusing as there was no context given. Kenpachi swoops in being the troll he is and gets under my skin a little. I'm human. Whoop de doo.

My case against you is not predicated on your support for or against Protactinium. My suspicion against your formed when I read that you thought Nisani presented a "pretty compelling" argument against Protactinium when in fact he did not.

When I then look through the remainder of your posts it becomes clear that you spend an inordinate amount of time committing to nothing, attempting to justify your lynch votes and never any actual scum-hunting.

Show nested quote +

You're not one of us. Your posts and your actions make that clear.

Is it a weak accusation to say that you don't ever attempt to help to improve the condition/atmosphere of the Town?
Is it a weak accusation to say that you don't ever take a solid stand to outlining your position on major issues?
Is it a weak accusation to say that you don't have not done any real public scum-hunting?

It is a weak accusation to say that I don't ever attempt to help improve town atmosphere. I was openly against the mason talk Day 1. This was probably the most chaotic, unhelpful time in the game and I said I didn't care for it. I was focused on the election. I stand firm in thinking this is something that was strongly in the interest of the town and I don't know why you choose to ignore it.

It is a weak accusation to say I never make a solid stand on major issues. I made a very solid stand with my vote for Protactinium. I outlined exactly why I thought other candidates were deficient and why I was steadfast in my support for Protactinium. I feel I'm making a solid stand right now against your agenda and for a lynch of supersoft and BM. These are things that are clear to see.

It is also a weak accusation to say I haven't attempted to hunt mafia as I am currently presenting a case right now. A strong one in my opinion. The fact that your accusation comes out now leads me to believe that you don't even really intend to get my lynched. That would be a bonus of course, but as long as my case against supersoft is overlooked its a small victory for mafia.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 21:42 GMT

#2704

flamewheel / jcarlsoniv can we get an accurate vote count? It's very difficult to keep up with double lynch voting already and now that you've said kingjames' count is incorrect I really want to know the current status even more.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 19 2012 21:57 GMT

#2707

I don't think you are mafia, but I'm like 95-99% sure that BM and supersoft are, and a little less sure (as most of my suspicion draws from his recent attack on me) that kingjames is as well. I feel like kingjames is a regular goon right now trying to use whatever traction he can get to save more valuable mafia roles. BM has obvious value to mafia with his sheriff position, and I'd wager to guess supersoft is a roleblocker/framer/jack. I don't mean to accuse you at all I'd just like you to go with your gut and not be swayed by kingjames' rhetoric.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 00:24 GMT

#2738

supersoft just admitted that in his latest defense post.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 00:36 GMT

#2745

I'd really like to see those logs wbg btw if possible. It seems very convenient that he masoned L but couldn't get him to talk. And it feels odd that he feels it necessary to give an excuse immediately after that. I also never brought his activity level into question in the first place.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 01:55 GMT

#2766

BM there are like 26 hours left today what are you talking about.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 01:56 GMT

#2767

Why are random people posting in this thread -_-

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 02:52 GMT

#2800

On January 20 2012 11:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

bad mafia or bad town. Regardless, Your posts attacked him for the same general points you were analyzed for. Also rather than actively discuss your opinion on todays other lynch choices or yesterdays lynch choices. You never explain your vote on L aside from saying you think hes mafia.

As for the pathetic little kid? resorting to personal insults now? Annoyed that everyone has seen you for what you are this game? As for if i thought you were red attacking your posts? I did that before, Do you really want me to ream you again?

From this assessment I assume you aren't a fan of my case against supersoft. Can you explain why you don't agree with it because I've yet to see supersoft do anything that exhonerates him in my mind. Along with BM he's had some of the worst defenses of all the people who have been accused today, and his vote for the last lynch makes zero sense to me.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 03:07 GMT

#2805

Fair enough townies make bad defense posts. But can you extrapolate farther on why you disagree with the finer points of my case against him. You say you have a town read on him and you don't see it as a viable lynch but you aren't speaking to any of my analysis at all.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 03:40 GMT

#2814

Thanks for not really commenting on the strongest part of my analysis and just focusing on the less relevant parts of it while not analyzing the true questionable behavior that lies within.

BC what kind of town agrees yeah we should lynch macpo but I'm gonna vote for this guy that not even Cyber_Cheese is voting for anymore? This is a guy who previously outlined these very meticulous plans he has for defining people in groups, and determining mafia via process of elimination. It's an irresponsible vote that doesn't fit his defined style of play.

Moreover he never even comments about CC's original case before this vote. If he wants to go along with the crowd and vote Macpo why is he bent on still voting for Chaosquo? He never makes that clear.

Again, I propose that the reason there is this divide in his logic regarding the last vote is that he was getting lazy in maintaining his facade of being town. He needed to vote somewhere but he didn't want to bus Macpo along with the rest of his mafia buddies. This is mafia hedging their bets, trying to slip one by us. Don't let him off the hook guys.

##Vote supersoft

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 05:04 GMT

#2828

blahz0r I don't think we have that problem at all. There are a number of random cases being pitched by random townies atm, including Lanaia's case for Slardar, Kenpachi's vote for bumatlarge, BM's vote for rgTheSchworz, and bumatlarge's case against Meapak, but there are a number of viable lynches in my opinion.

GGQ, kingjames, and supersoft have a lot to live up to if they want to get off my list of suspect players atm and are viable lynches imo. sandroba has a number of votes but i haven't seen anything compelling and new come out of this line of thinking for a while.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 05:23 GMT

#2829

flamewheel in your vote counts you aren't taking into account that BC is mayor now. You guys technically screwed up the last vote but it didn't matter.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 05:52 GMT

#2834

Meapak I'm very wary of getting behind the lynch of a dead townie primarily because he was town, which is what it seems like you're doing there. Nisani is right, a lot of your case is predicated on OpZ's continued distrust of Protactinium, which is fairly reasonable imo. Once Macpo was lynched and turned red (this happened on the 18th, after all of the posts you quoted) if people still are overly pushing for Protact's head then I'd say they are either horribad town or even more horribad mafia.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 09:51 GMT

#2848

You're reading the thread and we should take that as some glorious proof of how pro town you are?

+ Show Spoiler +

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 14:47 GMT

#2871

kingjames you're coming off like a raving lunatic the way you are pushing for information. this I DARE YOU nonsense is doing you no good. none at all.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 17:18 GMT

#2884

On January 21 2012 01:49 Toadesstern wrote:
Someone willing to share some thoughts about BC, protact and Bum?

I'm having a really hard time to judge them and I'm fine trusting them as long as they keep delivering mafias but I'm kind of scared I might be wrong here (I guess we'll see about that after the lynch).
Protact looks to be town to me, but somthing bothers me, same with BC. Bum is just a complete null for me: Thought he's town d1. thought he's fishy d1.5, and I'm basicly getting different vibes all the time.

BC I'm inherently distrusting and its difficult for me to get past his reputation but if I had to say I'd put him as town. I had my moments where I doubted Protact's town rep the day after the election, but those feelings disappeared with the successful Macpo lynch. I'm finding it difficult to keep them from resurfacing though today as he's sort of been orchestrating everything from the shadows for this day period but that was his style from the get-go and it has worked for him thus far so I'm still trusting his judgment.

That said I'm very confident that the current leaders for today's double lynch are indeed mafia and these two have been all over them all day long. I expect to get farther confirmation of their town alignment tonight but if we don't go 2 for 2 there may still be room for doubt.

bumatlarge I have a harder time with because his activity has waned a bit over the last few days. He has little else to his name atm other than this continued hunt on Meapak which when put in perspective looks very odd when there are strong cases elsewhere as far as I am concerned (and the majority of the town is concerned). However his behavior early in the game seems that of a focused townie that has clear goals with his vote and is annoyed why Jackal makes off-topic comments.

Of the three, I'm probably leaning town on all of them, with BC being the weakest read of the lot.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 17:35 GMT

#2885

Also, for those town out there who have yet to cast your vote. I want to make my case against supersoft visible to you again in case you have not seen it. To this moment I find his defense posts (effort #1 - effort #2 - effort #3) to be weak and seething with mafia apathy.

He has been a nonfactor for some time when it comes to furthering town goals of catching mafia and has done little to nothing to put his name in good standing. In this sense I feel like he is an even better candidate than kingjames. The only things standing between him and what I still feel should be a landslide lynch vote is a number of other compelling cases, and his relative inactivity in the thread compared to the hollering of kingjames and the idiocy of BM. Use your best judgment, but please consider this case against supersoft. I feel we have a veritable smorgasbord of mafia targets at our disposal at the moment, and that's a great thing, but the strength of a few cases shouldn't let another pass by unnoticed.

Unless someone that I see as a random lynch at this point somehow threatens to take kingjames' name off the chopping block I will keep my second vote on supersoft for these reasons.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 17:59 GMT

#2888

On January 21 2012 02:13 glurio wrote:
I didn't mason anyone on day 1, was busy reading the thread.
Tried to mason with BC on day 2 he never answered.
+ Show Spoiler +

To: BloodyC0bbler [ Profile | Buddy | Report ]
Subject: Mason
Date: 1/17/12 19:31
Hey so what do you think is our best course of action right now?

So there really isn't anything i can post yet.

Did anyone else think "Mafia Mason" at this post?[/QUOTE]
Yes but mostly because it automatically reminds me of this horrible mason claim:

On January 20 2012 07:22 supersoft wrote:
pandemik. I am not mafia. I admit, that my activitylevel is poor. But that has to do with my role: I am mason.
I claim right now, because scum already has that information. I masoned L yesterday and he refused to talk to me.
He was never online when I was.
With that information it's quite easy for you to know who I masoned Day1. It obviously was WBG and we talked a lot about Palmar. Obviously.

From now on I'll be more active in the thread. Promised.

On it's own merit I'm not entirely sure what to make of glurio's claim as there isn't much to it. It certainly reads in a more favorable light than supersoft's.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 18:09 GMT

#2892

Guys ez on the guy he was a replacement for d3 and he came into the thread like 30 pages behind. Not to mention he entered when day 1 was more than half over.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 18:17 GMT

#2894

That said it doesn't excuse the waiting to mason BC until extremely late in the day cycle. He just did the same with me not an hour ago, asking the same exact question Toad did about you BC (but this seems a bit excusable considering you decided to stonewall him yesterday).

Original Message From glurio:
Hey as you probably saw, i'm a mason.
You're my target for the cycle.
I liked your analysis and posts so i masoned you.
What are your thoughts on BC?

Lets consider everything though.

1) He's new, and he came into the game late with a backlog of like 30 pages he needed to catch up on
2) He read through countless pages of talk that disputed whether is role was worth a damn at all in the first place (I'm assuming he did read)

I could see him coming out of the experience a bit exhausted and feeling neutered in his role. It feels plausible.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 18:21 GMT

#2895

On January 21 2012 03:14 Toadesstern wrote:
and actually I don't like the fact that BC's going after him at all given that he's a replacement.

No kidding. You make such a concerted effort early game to chop the dicks off of every mason in the game and then when some dickless looking masons show up later you say it is characteristic of mafia when really its characteristic of the atmosphere you went about creating yourself in the thread. Pardon the language but I feel it is appropriate.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 18:32 GMT

#2899

On January 21 2012 03:24 supersoft wrote:
...
the case against me is horrible.

I masoned wbg and told him i am going to mason L.
I even softclaimed masoning L in the thread.
Why would I do all this. He didn't even respond me.

Please be so kind to explain why masoning L exonerates you in any way. Claiming to mason someone who later flipped red, and not having any proof that you actually did so proves nothing and sure as hell doesn't say you are town aligned. These can still be the actions of either a town mason or a mafia mason.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 18:56 GMT

#2903

Fair enough BC and your suspicions are somewhat justified but you cannot deny that you reap what you sow. To me he very much embodies what a new townie put in his situation would do when confronted by the atmosphere you created earlier in the thread. This doesn't make him town, but there is plenty of reason to not leap to conclusions here.

glurio you need to fill the gaps here and prove your innocence through actions moving forward. You are being watched now and you need to make steps towards finding mafia going forward. If you are intimidated and feel your role is useless you still have the option to press for your questions to be answered in this thread. BC what was the irrelevant question that he asked you? This is a good time to start getting some information about both his and your intentions.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 18:58 GMT

#2907

Toad he was also reluctant to get behind my case on supersoft which could be a MAJOR tell going forward if supersoft flips red. Despite having a 4 page filter supersoft did THE exact same thing as glurio and BC passed over my case like it was nothing. These are things to note people.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 19:02 GMT

#2909

OK people here is where we make a stand. We have caught both of our elected roles acting very fishy today. BM is a clear lynch and you have all already moved forward on this point as shown by your votes.

BC's recent actions are now clearly contradictory and we need to do everything we can to garnish more information about his intentions ASAP. I am going to reemphasize that my case against supersoft is no less credible than that against kingjames. What now makes my case more valuable is the information is gives us on BC which is going to be absolutely vital moving forward into the next few days of this game.

I want to urge everyone to ##vote Bill Murray and v##vote supersoft this is an opportunity that can't be passed up. BM has practically dug his own grave and now BC finds himself in a major pickle.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 19:12 GMT

#2912

I'm sorry but I don't think defending yourself against what you think are baseless claims is that difficult supersoft. If you think they are truly baseless you'd show some vigor to your attitude, some pep. Right now you just read like an already defeated player.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 19:29 GMT

#2925

On January 21 2012 04:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

How am I contradictary? Your case on SS is weak. I am calling glurio out yet I have not said "lets all off this player". If you notice I said the lynch on supersoft was not viable at this point based on the information provided. I have not said lynch glurio. How am I at all being contradictory?

As for your case against supersoft being as good as kingjames, I would strongly disagree. You did your initial analysis off 1 post while ignoring the rest. How is that stronger than a case against kingjames who has been analyzed by 3 players, and in one analysis he was shown to be misrepresenting himself on what he claimed to be doing, and was out and out doing dickall to help the town?

You have not made overt statements that blatantly contradict themselves but you are dealing with two players in incredibly similar situations. Both of these people claim to be masons. Both of them have questionable plays as masons. supersoft's grand contribution as a "town mason" is discussing the lynch of a townie (Palmar) with WBG and supposedly attempting to mason L to no avail. glurio comes out now after having not even used his day 1 mason (which was actually a better use than what supersoft did after all) and then he tried to mason you but you wouldn't respond (this isn't even his fault, and it is actually confirmable unlike supersoft's story). Both have not been actively playing with the town's interests in mind in the end though. Yet, you choose to disregard my case but jump on glurio out of the blue when there are plausible explanations for his behavior.

I analyzed one post I thought was his strongest tell. While I will agree this along isn't as compelling as a contrived multi-quote analysis, I did read through his filter and saw nothing to lead me away from my suspicions and next to nothing that looked like pro-town behavior. I fail to see how the number of players doing analysis weakens my personal work. I have not been campaigning like you, before today my thread presence wasn't something incredible. So I don't necessarily inspire mass support immediately. But I don't think that should be used against me. Again, I don't deny that Kingjames is suspicious at all, but honestly have you seen supersoft's defense posts? Have you seen them? They are a wet tissue. Not even good enough to withstand a sneeze. His reaction to scrutiny has been the polar opposite of Kingjames but just as damning in my opinion.

If you acknowledge the similarity between supersoft and glurio you CANNOT deny that a lynch of supersoft says a lot about your alignment. And this is something we as town need to be very sure of going forward. This is what makes this lynch better than kingjames and something that can't be ignored any longer.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 19:35 GMT

#2930

Proact I trust your judgment based upon your actions so far this game, why is supersoft a non-sensical lynch? I have already kept an open mind and told myself I would switch (most likely to kingjames if someone could really convince me I am in error) but I have seen some of the most respected TL mafia players step to the plate in you and BC and do nothing to dissuade me. Please tell me where I have gone wrong and why this vote wouldn't be extremely beneficial to town.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 19:43 GMT

#2937

People forgive for missing reds every once in a while, even with the effort you have put in I wouldn't blame you for thinking kingjames is mafia at this point and he flips green. His behavior has been ludicrous. I don't see a green kingjames as damning for you at all. I've been going under that assumption that he is red as well for a while but I know I'm not mafia as well and I can see how you would make the same mistake.

People should not forgive for contradictions and conflicts of interest. Which is what I believe we have uncovered in your discrepancy in handling the supersoft/glurio situations. This would be a way more damning tell than a mistaken lynch that any town could make.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 19:45 GMT

#2938

Proact he isn't nonsensical he is a limp dick that refuses to defend himself when I'm holding the scissors to his balls. How is this not more suspicious than you lead it on to be?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 19:50 GMT

#2942

God why do I feel there is a gigantic disconnect in logic between me and the supposedly brilliant players that have gotten us to this point in the game. The fact they keep going to their inner circle of veterans to bolster themselves and not ever speaking to my actual points is killing me. If this means what I think it means it could be incredible but I need town to go with my logic please guys! I feel like I'm putting good logic out and being met with strict rhetoric at every end.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 19:55 GMT

#2946

Foolishness this is like the 3rd time that one of you guys have gone to that post but it is almost a week old at this point and rapidly losing it's value. I've said it before it looks to me like an intial facade to establish a mafia's town nature early on to cover up for his clearly lazy behavior that he has made recently.

This is what kills me. You and BC have gone back to that post and you don't address his current behavior at all. He is rolling over and dying here, if only someone would put the noose in my hand with votes we could lynch him and he still would remain apathetic to the end, he still wouldn't care about yesterday's lynch, and he still wouldn't care enough to defend himself.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 20:03 GMT

#2949

Guys I feel like it should be readily apparent that in this game even more important than the question "what have you done for me?" is the question "what have you done for me LATELY?" As the game goes on mafia's actions should look more and more suspicious as long as we have a proactive town working hard to catch their asses. We shouldn't be looking for posts made on Day 1 to completely disregard something that just happened and is ongoing.

I know I'm up against a tough road here. BC isn't going to give me his vote on supersoft that is for sure at this point, please don't let some kind of mafia old boys club obscure your thinking and disregard my case. This goes to the rest of the town. Trust what you think is the best choice at this point in the game please don't sheep behind these vets just because you haven't seen me play before.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 20:15 GMT

#2954

I'm going to have to agree to disagree with your view of the game in that respect Proact, Foolish, and BC.

I stand firm that my logic is solid and that it can carry weight, and most importantly that a supersoft lynch looks to get a red as well as a sure tell on our mayor which is valuable. Join me town.

##vote Bill Murray and ##vote supersoft

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 20:31 GMT

#2967

On January 21 2012 05:20 Foolishness wrote:

Show nested quote +

I can respect that but at least vote for kingjames instead of Bill Murray lol

You have my ear, but I'm not sure I'm exactly following. I don't have any familiarity with BM's style of play but his defense is so absurd I cannot see why it is better to vote kingjames over him. kingjames has been overzealous and has been attacking me based on absurd arguments but I still feel BM is the better lynch. I've been trying hard not to come down on him simply because he is so critical of me and that is why I haven't voted for him over the other two yet but maybe I'm overcompensating and he deserves it more than BM. What's the argument for kingjames > BM?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 20:36 GMT

#2973

This is so messed up you three have invested all day into BM and Kingjames. I've been like 95-99% sure on these lynches for hours upon hours and now you guys are randomly switching your vote to sandroba.

Whatever trust and goodwill you have been building up, it is quickly evaporating. You need to explain this.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 20:48 GMT

#2981

You guys have done very little talk in the thread about sandroba recently and if this is what you've suddenly come to why are you just dropping the case against BM like this? How is sandroba magically a better lynch now at this point in the game? How is kingjames a better lynch?

This triumvirate's actions are just puzzling and I simply can't fathom why you guys are acting this way as town. Surely you aren't all mafia but someone here is rotten. I dk this is driving me up a wall atm I need to get out of the house for a moment and do something else. I'll be back shortly in like 30 minutes to an hour.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 21:41 GMT

#2992

Very well put Jackal. Their reasoning is "well we don't want to risk the mad hatter claim being true" is just bogus because they put together a very solid case against BM and now they are acting irrationally in response to yet another irrational BM defense ploy. This all is oddly contrived.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 21:46 GMT

#2994

He's the friggin sheriff and you practically had him dead to rights for all intensive purposes going into these last few hours of today. Why are you finding excuses to give him another day alive if you still think he is mafia and he can wreak havoc in night phase with jailing and the plethora of other night actions they have available.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 21:50 GMT

#2999

None so far proven but I feel I have one under the spotlight and I'm with you on BM.

Why are you and BC so self-unassured and relying on Proact? You guys are supposed to be super good veteran townies. Have more faith in yourself and have more faith in some of your fellow town. And most of all have faith in your read we all still think it is good.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 21:51 GMT

#3000

Seriously these three are beyond reason right now. This is super fucking fishy.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 22:00 GMT

#3005

why would bill be actively trolling us like this? your argument for not voting for him is defining his play as anti-town but you qualify it by saying he is actual town that is trolling us? why are you ignoring the much more likely probability that he is mafia and his anti-town actions are anti-town because he is MAFIA?

seriously I don't have this mad history with BM is he capable of ruining games like this? I know he's been banned but is this really the more likely possibility right now?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 22:03 GMT

#3008

I don't care how many mafia they caught I'm gonna call a fishy play fishy. I'm not calling for their lynch yet or anything. Cool your jets, but don't act like they are beyond questioning their motives.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 22:10 GMT

#3014

His only actual ban has been a 2 day that plexa gave him because of a mafia incident but I don't have any context as to what it is. Mafia matters are mostly carried out through mafia and I don't know any of what Bill's transgressions are. This is so frustrating that his bad history is coming into play like this to try to discredit a perfectly good lynch. If he acts like this as town he shouldn't be allowed back into games this is idiotic. If he is town won't he just get another ban immediately? If he cared enough to come back into this game why does he have motive to be an idiot again?

I'm not seeing this BM is a troll town case and this is feels like a cop out.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 20 2012 23:14 GMT

#3052

flamewheel we could really really use a recount atm.

I'm pretty sure sandroba is actually going to be lynched as the current votes stand just by eyeballing it. Please the people who are saying "either sandroba is mafia or BC is mafia" go back and look at my filter and arguments for the supersoft lynch. If supersoft is mafia, (of which I'm like 99% on) then BC is ALSO mafia. Please don't hedge your bets by going for the either-or scenario when we can go 2/2 today and then have a solid follow-up lynch tomorrow. And don't let BM off the hook. He's putting on the charm now in the most crucial time but he's been anti town for ages now and this is a cheap ruse after all the shit he's pulled.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 00:09 GMT

#3076

Really hope its ok to post this in here at least as flamewheel isn't around atm I fear. Or he's too absorbed in DotA -_-

+ Show Spoiler [Unofficial Vote Count] +

Day 3 Double Lynch Vote Tally

Votes for Bill Murray (10)
Cyber_Cheese
wherebugsgo
bumatlarge
p4NDemik
Nisani201
Jackal58
Cwave
glurio
risk.nuke
VisceraEyes

Votes for sandroba (15)
Toadesstern
Bill Murray
hiro protagonist
Nisani201
Protactinium
Foolishness
BloodyC0bbler (x3)
Toadesstern
Jackal58
Bill Murray
Jayjay54
VisceraEyes
jaj22

Votes for GGQ (9)
Meapak_Ziphh
Jayjay54
Lanaia
Scamp
Cyber_Cheese
Slardar
vaderseven
kitaman27
Jitsu

Votes for kingjames01 (13)
Foolishness
hiro protagonist
Protactinium
BloodyC0bbler (x3)
Scamp
Toadesstern
glurio
vaderseven
Slardar
jaj22
Bill Murray

Votes for Toadesstern (1)
wherebugsgo

Votes for supersoft (2)
p4NDemik
BrownBear

Votes for Meapak_Ziphh (2)
bumatlarge
Kenpachi

Votes for p4NDemik (1)
kingjames01

Votes for Kenpachi (1)
BrownBear

Votes for bumatlarge (1)
Kenpachi

Votes for Slardar (1)
Lanaia

Votes for ~OpZ~ (1)
kitaman27

Votes for Double Lynch (3/20)
Protactinium
Cyber_Cheese
jaj22

I don't know how these ghosts of days past are gaining momentum but this makes no sense. We've had no analysis on these people. GGQ should not be close to kingjames at all. I've been successfully relegated to the "he's pro town, but his analysis is bad" zone -_-

Disappointing to see that so many are following sheepishly in this election. For the love of everything that is holy lets rally town. sandroba/GGQ are 2 day old theories that are stale and hollow, without significant analysis today. kingjames, BM, and supersoft have FRESH argumentation, logic, and activity/defenses to judge them on. They are mafia and we cannot let them off the hook lets go!

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 00:14 GMT

#3080

On January 21 2012 09:09 p4NDemik wrote:
Really hope its ok to post this in here at least as flamewheel isn't around atm I fear. Or he's too absorbed in DotA -_-

+ Show Spoiler [Unofficial Vote Count] +

Day 3 Double Lynch Vote Tally

Votes for Bill Murray (11)
Cyber_Cheese
wherebugsgo
bumatlarge
p4NDemik
Nisani201
Jackal58
Cwave
glurio
risk.nuke
VisceraEyes
rgTheSchworz

Votes for sandroba (15)
Toadesstern
Bill Murray
hiro protagonist
Nisani201
Protactinium
Foolishness
BloodyC0bbler (x3)
Toadesstern
Jackal58
Bill Murray
Jayjay54
VisceraEyes
jaj22

Votes for GGQ (9)
Meapak_Ziphh
Jayjay54
Lanaia
Scamp
Cyber_Cheese
Slardar
vaderseven
kitaman27
Jitsu

Votes for kingjames01 (15)
Foolishness
hiro protagonist
Protactinium
BloodyC0bbler (x3)
Scamp
Toadesstern
glurio
vaderseven
Slardar
jaj22
Bill Murray
supersoft
rgTheSchworz

Votes for Toadesstern (1)
wherebugsgo

Votes for supersoft (2)
p4NDemik
BrownBear

Votes for Meapak_Ziphh (2)
bumatlarge
Kenpachi

Votes for p4NDemik (1)
kingjames01

Votes for Kenpachi (1)
BrownBear

Votes for bumatlarge (1)
Kenpachi

Votes for Slardar (1)
Lanaia

Votes for ~OpZ~ (2)
kitaman27
supersoft

Votes for Double Lynch (3/20)
Protactinium
Cyber_Cheese
jaj22

+2 votes for kingjames, +1 for OpZ, and +1 for BillMurray in this, votes were added as I was tabulating

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 00:19 GMT

#3087

There are actually something like 15 votes that haven't been cast yet. we're at like 61 and there are 78 total votes. A lot can change. People we need to consolidate on KJ and BM here. They have been the strongest cases all day long and going for yesterday's 2nd best lynch on the whim of proact (even if he has a good track record) is not a wise move. Stay the course and vote BM out.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 00:23 GMT

#3089

Don't lynch lurkers over people we have made enormous headway in analyzing today.

BM gave up on this game at two different points, and had been expressing an incredible amount of apathy and irrational thought processes up until this play to go for sandroba. This is the last ditch effort of someone who decided he finally wanted to give a shit. Not the defense of genuine town. Throwing this away in favor of going for a lurker sandroba is irresponsible and can give a mafia BM another day to do as he pleases with immunity. Don't allow him this luxury. He has NOT earned it.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 01:29 GMT

#3151

On January 21 2012 10:16 Toadesstern wrote:
from our op

Show nested quote +

So the framer is not changing red / green but changing roles this game. Makes sense I guess.

I just played a game with the same rules where I was dt. Framer can alter both the role and the alignment of his target. He can make a green townie look like a Mafia Roleblocker and vice versa.

Millers just make the person show up as a Mafia Goon.

Hiro you've been a very green read for me all game and I trust what you are saying but I am still wary of miller/framer possibilities. Information on what his exact role was would be helpful.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 01:32 GMT

#3155

Yeah bum I think you missed a recent development.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 01:43 GMT

#3160

I really think it is far fetched that hiro is mafia. If he is they have been keeping this as a back up from the very beginning and I find that unlikely. He voted and made very firm posts against sandroba starting the night after he investigated him. He wasted absolutely no time today to put his vote on him today. Very unlikely they foresaw this scenario imo.

fuuuu why did he have to run to work without saying his role though T-T

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 01:54 GMT

#3163

Seriously guys if you are going to come out and you are a blue role like dt you need to give us all of your checks and details like roles. This is sloppy =/

Regardless, I can't see the merit of voting BM over sandroba in light of this information. I just wish we had all of the information. So much of this is riding on previous green read of you though since this outing post is less that 100% satisfactory. Whatever.

gonna ##unvote kingjames01, ##vote sandroba, and ##vote supersoft

I will continue to keep my vote for supersoft for reasons stated previously as kingjames is still in no danger or getting out of the gallows.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 01:57 GMT

#3167

Toad it seems pretty clear to me he had just missed reading the new post. He reference's Protact's gambit but has nothing about this dt news. Mafia wouldn't ignore this.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:05 GMT

#3174

On January 21 2012 10:54 p4NDemik wrote:
Seriously guys if you are going to come out and you are a blue role like dt you need to give us all of your checks and details like roles. This is sloppy =/

Regardless, I can't see the merit of voting BM over sandroba in light of this information. I just wish we had all of the information. So much of this is riding on previous green read of you though since this outing post is less that 100% satisfactory. Whatever.

gonna ##unvote kingjames01, ##vote sandroba, and ##vote supersoft

I will continue to keep my vote for supersoft for reasons stated previously as kingjames is still in no danger or getting out of the gallows.

clarification: this should say ##unvote Bill Murray, ##vote sandroba, and ##vote supersoft to be accurate as I never voted kj but have supported it all day.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:08 GMT

#3176

Is using my mod ability to open "All" pages of this thread something that I can't do? Regular users don't have the ability but I don't think this is anything abusive

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:23 GMT

#3185

VE sorry that you are getting lost in the shuffle but you have to keep it in check you aren't building credibility by going nuclear here, just look at kingjames for an example of what that kind of posting gets you.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:32 GMT

#3187

if sandroba doesn't vote today is he a mod-kill? I just noticed he hasn't voted =/

i really hope he a) isn't somehow town, and b) town that was going to be mod-killed anyways

fuck me this sucks i wanna know already

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:36 GMT

#3189

Whatever I'm exhausted I don't want to think about the possible negative ramifications T-T there has been a lot of good stuff to come out of today even if he isn't red we aren't empty handed

if kingjames isn't red I really am going to have a wtf moment though

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:44 GMT

#3191

i think our window is passed to get bm out. there is too little time and this isn't a game where we have stuff like irc at our disposal to rally quick support and switch votes. its sandroba through and through now unfortunately. fuck.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:49 GMT

#3195

Yeah this is all too pointless. I'm putting my vote back on Bill Murray. I still think his defense is bs. The claim changes nothing if sandro is going to be a mod kill.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:52 GMT

#3199

Don't waste your double vote guys. In the back and forth arguments we have lost sight that this entire witch hunt is pointless atm.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:54 GMT

#3203

Thanks for finally dropping in from your lurker hole dude but hopefully you are still reading and don't miss the situation that we are facing.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:56 GMT

#3204

F5 F5 F5 people please don't waste this.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 02:58 GMT

#3208

You are arguing with a sample size of 1. But no matter it appears fruitless at this point. These two better be red.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:00 GMT

#3211

what is iioa

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:02 GMT

#3214

Dude its crunch time posts are coming rapidly I haven't exactly had time to go over your entire response to this guy.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:04 GMT

#3216

This remains to be seen. Keep stroking your ego though. The jury isn't out on you yet.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:06 GMT

#3218

my heart can't take this

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:08 GMT

#3220

Yeah your night actions are good when you remember to actually use them. Seriously you say you don't have an ego?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:09 GMT

#3222

This humility thing has gotten you this far though. For that bravo if you are mafia.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:11 GMT

#3224

You said you didn't jail anyone last night.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:13 GMT

#3228

what

king james

what

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:14 GMT

#3230

you have two roles bill they are stacked you can do both afaik. i've never been so blessed so you should green that post and ask flamewheel.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:16 GMT

#3233

-_- you really need to get a better read on people before you make such brazen attacks. gg kj.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:19 GMT

#3238

On January 21 2012 12:14 Bill Murray wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 21 2012 07:56 blahz0r wrote:

On January 21 2012 07:07 Foolishness wrote:

On January 21 2012 07:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

On January 21 2012 06:51 p4NDemik wrote:
Seriously these three are beyond reason right now. This is super fucking fishy.

Ok ok ok everyone hold your horses. We'd all like to hear a coherent case out of the triumvirate. However let's not let things get blown out of porportion. Yes, we'd all like them just to spell it out, yes we are frustrated at their collective inability to explain wtf is going on. However now is not the time for veiled attacks on their credibility. This is the kinda thing I called out opz (still scum btw) for. We can be frustrated but it's not necessary to start spreading doubt yet. If they can't get their shit together by the lynch and the lynch falls apart and one or two townies die then we can start calling for some heat. Until then let's give them an oppertunity to respond to our requests. I think we (and by we I once again mean the recently active people) have made it clear what we need to hear. Let's not go overboard and start heaving accusations till we've heard their responses.

I think we're all blowing this out of proportion and thinking too hard about this.

Why are we saying let's not kill BM? Well what if he is a hatter and telling the truth? We not only killed a townie but lost our best scumhunter as well.

Do I think it's likely BM is telling the truth? No, but it's a possibility. Is town in a desperate situation where we need to take chances? No

If BM is mafia, then mafia will not kill Incog cause they want to keep BM from getting lynched. That's okay cause Incog can stay around to find the rest of the mafia team. If the mafia do decide to kill Incog, then we can go straight ahead and kill BM, and I will not ask questions lol

This isn't supposed to be complicated. We don't need to be taking chances at this point so why bother?

Incog and BC have both been suspicious of sandroba, and sandroba has yet to contribute all game so we have decided to go with that. Do I think there are better lynches than sandroba? Yes. But that's okay because sandroba fits the theme. I'm not going to sit and argue for better targets, it's important that we are all on the same page. Incog and BC know who I think is mafia, and that will be the starting point for tomorrow's lynch.

What chances? If he was a mad hatter, why would he waste putting a bomb on someone who has and still is actively finding mafia. His bombs would be better used on these other mafia targets that you have all believed to be mafia.

To me he went from "oh I don't have much time and effort so whatevers" to "oh I'm gonna kill our scum hunter if you lynch me lols". WTF is this ?

I'm voting Bill Murray, this looks like bullshit to me.

bolded

he was modkilled and he was practically useless while alive why are you attacking a dead townie?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 03:29 GMT

#3247

On January 21 2012 12:18 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

Show nested quote +

Have you ever heard of reads being too accurate? And look how much you flaunt it so...

Speaking of reads being too accurate is anyone concerned about the unbelievable predictive powers of our triumvirate concerning the sandroba lynch? The quick switch after past rebuttals feels like a possible bus of an expendable teammate. Very plausible that after almost half a day into the cycle and no responses someone may take the initiative to capitalize on a player who otherwise has no value.

kingjames as I said before doesn't tell us much. i think most of us are baffled by his play. real headscratcher and we're really going to have to dig hard to find mafia hiding in this bandwagon i feel like.

for now, i'm spent gl in your night actions fellas, chose wisely and keep in mind what we've seen go down today. i'll see yall on the flipside.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 20:37 GMT

#3364

On January 21 2012 17:33 Foolishness wrote:
Mafia list has to be something like:

Meapak, Munk-E, Bill Murray, evantrees, BrownBear, Kenpachi.

Substitute in glurio, Opz, EchelonTee, vaderseven, Slardar for the ones that flip town.

This is the biggest load of bs I've seen all game. Just a list of people who are relatively inactive. They may be trying to lurk but they are doing very little to influence the game. There are going to be some Mafia exerting influence right now. To suggest otherwise is just ignorant. While these are all suspicious individuals there are those among your circle who are just as suspicious because of actions they have made and the influence they have exerted on the game. Today's actions do nothing to further any of you three in the eyes of town.

You missed on kingjames01: no points either way in my mind because he was tough to read as town in any circumstance but mafia would have jumped over that opportunity once they saw it. It was given to them on a golden platter.

You hit on scandroba: this should not sway townies at all. Despite building a bulletproof case against Bill, one that could have and should have gone to the wire with the way he was acting you switched votes only in the interest of self-preservation of Protactinium. You move your votes onto a mafia member who was completely expendable to their cause. They needed to capitalize on his inactivity and fast. He wasn't coming back (or at least they couldn't be sure of it) and they needed to make use of this in some way. In fact the motives for your actions yesterday more often lead to the point of two or maybe more of your being mafia rather than you all being town aligned.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 20:42 GMT

#3365

On January 21 2012 19:43 supersoft wrote:

Show nested quote +

medics on this guy btw.

Don't listen to a word this guy says. He's looking super red and if you are taking orders from this guy at this point you seriously need to get your head checked.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 20:43 GMT

#3366

I'm just replying to stuff as I go guys will be caught up very soon and when I am there is a lot of analysis to do on yesterday's events.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 21:03 GMT

#3368

Protact is a dead man walking btw.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 21:04 GMT

#3369

JayJay if you actually read those logs and don't want to lynch Protact right now you are just as red as he is.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 21:09 GMT

#3370

Bill if you believe the logs between sandroba and BC are real don't remove the bomb from Protactinium.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 21:16 GMT

#3371

If you are Mad Hatter at all:

+ Show Spoiler +

[14/01/2012 1:25:21 AM] Sandro Maculan: I'm catching up
[14/01/2012 1:25:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: still on page 40
[14/01/2012 1:25:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: and quite drunk
[14/01/2012 1:26:16 AM] Sandro Maculan: wow
[14/01/2012 1:26:25 AM] Sandro Maculan: proactinum thinks you are scum
[14/01/2012 1:26:34 AM] Sandro Maculan: are you mafia?
[14/01/2012 1:26:44 AM] Sandro Maculan: tell me I wont remember tomorrow
[14/01/2012 1:26:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: i promise not to check logs
[14/01/2012 1:27:17 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 1:27:17 AM] james: im not
[14/01/2012 1:27:19 AM] james: protrac
[14/01/2012 1:27:22 AM] james: just outed himself
[14/01/2012 1:27:23 AM] james: hard
[14/01/2012 1:27:23 AM] james: though
[14/01/2012 1:27:27 AM] james: so fucking obvious
[14/01/2012 1:27:41 AM] james: i say this because
[14/01/2012 1:27:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: I really thought he was town though
[14/01/2012 1:27:45 AM] james: if anyone thinks thats mystlord
[14/01/2012 1:27:47 AM] james: they are dumb as hell
[14/01/2012 1:27:48 AM] james: lol
[14/01/2012 1:27:52 AM] Sandro Maculan: from his frist post and second
[14/01/2012 1:28:03 AM] james: the post against me
[14/01/2012 1:28:05 AM] james: is incog
[14/01/2012 1:28:11 AM] james: and incog is firmly in
[14/01/2012 1:28:15 AM] james: the anti pm bandwagon
[14/01/2012 1:28:15 AM] james: for town
[14/01/2012 1:28:22 AM] Sandro Maculan: no
[14/01/2012 1:28:25 AM] james: no i mean
[14/01/2012 1:28:27 AM] Sandro Maculan: he is against the anti pm
[14/01/2012 1:28:29 AM] james: if you talk to him
[14/01/2012 1:28:33 AM] james: outside of this game
[14/01/2012 1:28:35 AM] Sandro Maculan: he thinkis you are for it
[14/01/2012 1:28:37 AM] james: he hates pm
[14/01/2012 1:28:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: and thus mafia
[14/01/2012 1:28:45 AM] james: which is how he outed himself
[14/01/2012 1:28:54 AM] james: his belief in people properly using pms
[14/01/2012 1:28:55 AM] james: is fucking horrid
[14/01/2012 1:29:02 AM] james: fw
[14/01/2012 1:29:04 AM] james: and I
[14/01/2012 1:29:06 AM] james: are the top 2 people
[14/01/2012 1:29:08 AM] james: who like pms
[14/01/2012 1:29:08 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 1:29:13 AM] Sandro Maculan: this discussion
[14/01/2012 1:29:13 AM] james: in general
[14/01/2012 1:29:15 AM] james: i hate masons
[14/01/2012 1:29:19 AM] Sandro Maculan: is fucking useless day1
[14/01/2012 1:29:21 AM] james: nah
[14/01/2012 1:29:24 AM] james: incog
[14/01/2012 1:29:25 AM] james: just
[14/01/2012 1:29:26 AM] james: outed himself
[14/01/2012 1:29:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: maybe he is mafia for not realising that
[14/01/2012 1:29:31 AM] james: to me anyway
[14/01/2012 1:29:35 AM] james: to me
[14/01/2012 1:29:39 AM] james: thats a hugeeeee
[14/01/2012 1:29:39 AM] Sandro Maculan: vets are going to get shot the fuck out
[14/01/2012 1:29:40 AM] james: bit
[14/01/2012 1:29:41 AM] james: also
[14/01/2012 1:29:42 AM] Sandro Maculan: fast
[14/01/2012 1:29:43 AM] james: adam
[14/01/2012 1:29:45 AM] james: + wbg
[14/01/2012 1:29:48 AM] james: link to protrac
[14/01/2012 1:29:51 AM] james: so does ciryandor
[14/01/2012 1:29:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: ?
[14/01/2012 1:29:57 AM] james: do i think all are red? no
[14/01/2012 1:29:59 AM] james: but they all link
[14/01/2012 1:30:08 AM] james: protrac has done nothing to garner votes
[14/01/2012 1:30:09 AM] james: but tunnel people
[14/01/2012 1:30:09 AM] Sandro Maculan: man
[14/01/2012 1:30:12 AM] Sandro Maculan: protact
[14/01/2012 1:30:16 AM] james: first people to jump on his nuts
[14/01/2012 1:30:20 AM] Sandro Maculan: if he is mafia he has balls
[14/01/2012 1:30:20 AM] james: with 0 grounds
[14/01/2012 1:30:23 AM] james: well
[14/01/2012 1:30:25 AM] james: it is incog
[14/01/2012 1:30:29 AM] Sandro Maculan: he is the most out there mothefucker
[14/01/2012 1:30:45 AM] Sandro Maculan: you + him are my strongest town reads atm
[14/01/2012 1:30:55 AM] Sandro Maculan: balss =/= mafia
[14/01/2012 1:31:23 AM] Sandro Maculan: even you when red you play more conservatively
[14/01/2012 1:31:31 AM] Sandro Maculan: of course i can be fooled and mistaken
[14/01/2012 1:31:38 AM] Sandro Maculan: but i gotta go with my guts
[14/01/2012 1:31:49 AM] Sandro Maculan: and they say you plus him are town right now

Comes down to if this is real and BC is town or if this is fake and BC is mafia though.

I've gotta read more of sandro's filter but this was before anything had happened and Proact has established town cred by pointing out two mafia. Looks really suspiciouis.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 21:31 GMT

#3375

On January 22 2012 02:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

BM is unable to jail someone like foolishness twice in a row, He is able to move or place another bomb the same night he opts to jail someone. Also holding a town lynch hostage, which is in essence what you are doing, is not pro town.

Show nested quote +

You are not roleblockable.

Show nested quote +

Why? would you be taking the reigns? Between myself, foolishness, and protract a total of 4 reds have been called out who have flipped red. More to the point however, the lynches that hit two of those reds were pushed/directed by us. You were "all over sandroba" yet you never analyzed him, or strongly and vocally pushed him as a lynch option and instead just voted alongside everyone else. You sheeped.

Before you rage around screaming "i scumhunted, i scumhunted" near all your "scum" are based off pure speculation and not real analysis. In some cases you just list people as red with no reason and continue on. Your contributions to this game have been near 0 and you have really not done anything aside from claim hatter with a bomb on protrac to do anything to save yourself. You didn't step up over day 3 even knowing you could still die

as for going with the sheep comment you made

Show nested quote +

hey guys, he was only after sandroba based on someone elses shite, he was sheeping!

Town will most likely be annoyed as fuck with me over the kj lynch. However your play is riddled with pretty well 0 contributions, holding lynches hostage to determine if you do whats in the best interests of the towns or not, fear mongering, and lies.

As a note, Do you remember the game you were a ninja and I was a ninja? Do you remember how you held the town hostage by saying "i will give the entire blue list out to the mafia if you don't give me the name of the last ninja?" Do you remember when they asked you to move your shot because someone else had sent in a kill action on that target well before you did and once again you refused?

You clearly only play in your own personal best interests when you aren't town. Nothing you have done in this past day has been in the interests of the town, only in the interests of yourself.

You seriously make no sense these days. 24 hours before the vote is going to pass you initially think he is red and not Mad Hatter. After the claim you get all scared and want to save Protact's ass because "oooo what if it's true we don't want to lose our amazing lovely Protact." You disregard your entire read which suggest's BM's claim is bs and suddenly want to save him only to save Protact (who now red sandroba was shown to be defending heavily in your self-posted logs) now that sandroba is dead and this information has come to light you jump back on BM and don't question Protact at all? Now that BM says he is moving his bomb you are back on his case like crazy and disregarding your previous conversations with the deceased mafia.

You three need to stop being so enamored with each other right now. It is doing no good if any of you are town and is clouding your judgment.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 21:39 GMT

#3376

Seriously you three I just got out of a game we lost because the veterans (relative to the rest of the crowd) trusted each other way too much. You guys are going to go to your grave if you don't start looking at each other with a critical eye every once in a while. Yesterday does nothing to further any of you as town. Your possibility of mafia is the same or more than it was before everything that went down.

You guys killed a town and killed a mafia that was going to get MODKILLED stop running around going "we're so great" and look at the situation as it is. You aren't the second coming and you did nothing that was pro-town yesterday. So stop acting like it, start acting like town and start thinking with all possibilities in mind.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 21:48 GMT

#3377

And Protact no way do we go through with your agenda without considering supersoft. He continues to be a complete non-entity for town and his actions were and still are questionable. He needs to be considered. You three have brought nothing to the table to counter my analysis of him. You have pushed my case under the rug with no analysis of your own and you won't be doing it again.

Look at his actions tonight. He has done nothing except make a pointless post directing our blues. Something he shouldn't be doing anyways and something that does not help town in any conceivable way. He needs to die.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 22:30 GMT

#3380

jaj22 replaced igabod. Here is his filter if you would like to look through it. He's been fairly active actually so there isn't really any reason to group him with those lazy schmucks.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 21 2012 23:31 GMT

#3386

Wooo yeah Bill fuck the people who are playing for their own self preservation and go go people who play with the town's best interests in mind.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 01:18 GMT

#3392

On January 21 2012 17:03 Foolishness wrote:
Update
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 15 2012 12:20 flamewheel wrote:
Day 1 Election Vote Tally

Votes for Bill Murray (11) Second
Macpo
Toadesstern
rgTheSchworz
Jackal58
GiygaS
Munk-E
EchelonTee
Nisani201
Mr. Wiggles
Ciryandor
kitaman27

Votes for kitaman27 (1)
evantrees

Votes for BloodyC0bbler (11) First
Meapak_Ziphh
risk.nuke
GGQ
zeks
Lanaia
glurio
Cyber_Cheese
Foolishness
supersoft
wherebugsgo
VisceraEyes
sandroba (didn't actually vote in voting thread)

Votes for Protactinium (10)
Palmar
Adam4167
Kurumi
Cwave
Liquid`Sheth
Jayjay54
Jitsu
p4NDemik
bumatlarge
blahz0r

Votes for supersoft (1)
Bill Murray

Votes for L (2)
~OpZ~
Scamp

Votes for wherebugsgo (2)
Kenpachi
Slardar

Votes for VisceraEyes (1)
L

Votes for Meapak_Ziphh (1)
BloodyC0bbler

BloodyC0bbler is elected as Mayor and Bill Murray is his new Sheriff.

There are a lot of non-voters. Chaosquo is excused for this cycle, but to my count that still leaves...
kingjames01
BrownBear
igabod (PM'd me saying he wants to be replaced; no reason why)
Erandorr (PMed me saying he wants to be replaced; not an acceptable reason why)
Protactinium
rtgICEMAN
Maxella

Reminder to myself to update this in the future. Someone update it if I die tonight.

Lets analyze the day 1 vote list a little then instead of just posting lists. Because that's what mafia does right foolishness? Stop feigning being useful and show me your strong town play. Everyone was hyping you up early and you are sheeping along with BC atm behind the Proact train. You've posted a few LISTS but no ANALYSIS tonight. Step up and get a spine show me why you have such cred in these parts.

Now, down to analysis. Sandroba and L both ran for office but they made pitiful campaigns that got no support. So the true mafia candidates are still running about among the masses folks. Keep that in mind when you are chosing who you are influenced by in this game.

So, of the REAL candidates, who is town and who is mafia?

So, lets focus on Bill Murray, BloodyC0bbler, and Protactinium:

The Case on Bill Murray
If there is one thing we need to preface this statement with, it is that Bill Murray is an idiot. Truly his play has been bafflingly bad and shows blatant ignorance of the rules (did not know he could act both as Mad Hatter while simultaneously being Sherriff) and displays bafflingly stupid town play (if that is indeed what he is).

Whether Bill Murray is town or not is sadly difficult to discern and will make further deductions difficult because since he is such an idiot Mafia probably would have enjoyed having a chance to put him into one of our elected roles if the alternative was another town member.

I am hesitant to go further into analysis on this man because his actions have been explained as that of an idiot in the past to get him off the hook and may be used again. I won't waste time with analysis if my work can be so easily washed away by his horrible meta.

Bill Murray you sir are a nuisance. An idiot, a distraction, and a nuisance. But I'm not entirely sure if you are mafia.

BUT in the words of the now dead Mafia goon Macpo:

"Also, the Foolishness Bill murray candidacy sounds too big to be mafia-ish. There are claiming their "alliance" too loud, it would be way too risky for them if they were mafia, as everyone focuses on them. So, paradoxically, I would trust them more (or Bill Murray more precisely) as mayor. So I guess I will vote either Mr Wriggles, or Bill Murray; Mr Wriggles being more rational and precise in his analysis (but maybe it's a game) while Bill Murray is more a safety choice (with our very limited information, I feel it's rational to assume that he can't be mafia). But these are only very limited hypotheses and assumptions. How do you guys feel about that?"

This is all in among his large first post of the game. Soft support of Bill in his first post of the game. You may say: "p4NDemik his vote for him is suspicious yes, why does this make it more suspicious?" I say to you this deflection of what is mafia and what isn't mafia play feels like a move to get suspicion off of an actual mafia play. Town look for pro-town agenda among their candidate and don't make a candidate seem legitimate by arguing this way. Mafia will try to downplay their strategy. Mafia points for this. Chances BM is mafia? 80-90%. Also paints Foolishness in a horrible light if Bill is mafia then this entire candidacy was a mafia ploy and Foolishness is as red as the setting sun.

Analysis of BC and Protact coming soon but this is getting super long so I want to keep each part digestable. Read up townies!

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 01:58 GMT

#3394

The Case on BloodyC0bbler
Do not let this slimeball deceive you. He has been piggy backing off of the success of Protactinium for most of this game and has not acheived much in the town's interests. The alignment of much of his electorate remains in doubt. His lengthy posts make going through his filter quite a pain, and can serve as excellent cover both to make him seem pro-town, and gain sway among the town. From all I have heard his open deception of town goals is something he is clearly capable of and makes determining if he is town or mafia of utmost concern right now considering he was elected into the role of mayor. In the coming days he will only grow more powerful both in pure vote power and in swaying the vote. So we need to focus hard and analyze this man before anything else.

Town. Do not blindly trust your mayor without considering where he may be aligned first. Now lets get down to it:

BC starts the game by running for mayor. This is something that I've heard he almost always does, which does not surprise due to his particular disposition for deceit and/or justified persuasion of the masses. He however does not have a lynch target for most of the first day, and instead focus' a lot of his time to claim that he is mason and insinuate that other masons should come forward.

What are his motives for this? He claims that this is a move to promote discussion and to take the wind out of the sails of a role he perceives as detrimental for town. What are the possible alterior motives (and more devious motives) for this action? BloodyC0bbler is the biggest source of chaos during day 1. Something that everyone agrees is in the mafia's best interest. Claims are said to usually be best made as a last resort when you need to avert something bad happening to town. Claims shouldn't be made to further your own interests like BC's. Take hiro's claim last day cycle - he came out when he was worried we may be letting a red off the hook. An honorable action. BC parlay's his role into power - even if he doesn't blantantly run on a campaign hinged on his role he made it an issue and it helped him.

Now that BC was on his way to being elected what does he do? He has been unsure of who to lynch for some time, he doesn't want to commit to any real reads like Protactinium does for commiting to a read could possibly be used against him later on. He stays undecided but later decides that he will use his newfound power to lynch Palmar at the behest of someone who LATER TURNED OUT TO BE MAFIA in sandroba. Yeah remember that? Our fine mayor made himself a pawn of the mafia and refused to make stands day 1. He also throws in a worthless vote for Meapak to boot. Great protown vote BC. I'm so not fucking proud of you so far at all.

Also among the day 1 posts he makes:

On January 15 2012 04:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 15 2012 04:50 Jayjay54 wrote:

On January 15 2012 04:36 Toadesstern wrote:

On January 15 2012 04:32 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

On January 15 2012 04:31 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

On January 15 2012 04:24 Toadesstern wrote:

On January 15 2012 04:14 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

On January 15 2012 04:01 Toadesstern wrote:
and re. I'll be voting BM right now. d1 (like RL-d1) I thought it's the most horrible thing possible but he gives me townvibes.
There's no way I will vote for sandro, bc or bum because I think either 1 or 2 out of them is scum and the mafia out of those is trying to screw with me / us.
I just don't want to vote into that triangle of I-don't-know.

wbg would be an alternative but I've got more of an stubborn-palmar read than a useless-palmar read and I'd like to lynch someone else d1. If possible someone who's not a vet and leave palmar for d2.

Wiggles and kita didn't say a lot lately so although I (somehow) got a townfeeling out of that much nothing I'd much rather vote someone else.
Mattchew and VE a re both town but I'd rather have someone else in that position imo.
Oh and everyone who got no mention either is hard to judge for me or is not worth a mention. Deal with it :p

Still catching up. I'm reading the last 2 pages, I'm eating and I will post a little bit more if needed.

I'll take that as me being too awesome for your judgement or something.

I'd like to hear from Foolishness now.
What made it seem like a good idea to make Mattchew run for mayor, over equally active people she had more history with? Why is she interested in controlling Bill Murray?

actually yeah. I have no idea what you're up to at this point in time. I'm going to quote from my sheet:

7. Cyber_Cheese
I haven o idea
no idea at all

I tried several times to get something about you going but I never was able to put something into words. You're like THE nullread I have in this game and I don't know why I have so much trouble to figure you out. Want to to me a faver and tell me real fast who you want to lynch and who's the best mayor in your opinion (other than yourself) ?
I don't really want to read your filter again right now

Mayor, I honestly have no idea. I was pretty close to going for Mattchew after he explained how he got to choosing Foolishness. I suppose BC doesn't seem like the bad choice people make him out to be, I feel like he's explained his plan enough.
Lynch... Probably VisceraEyes or Risk.Nuke, for starting a mayorial campaign and giving up on it.

To clarify the lynch. I want the scummiest person who ran for mayor. I'm just not sure who that is at the moment.
Sandroba seems like a decent option.

so that's sandroba for lynch, VE for lynch or risk nuke for lynch and BC for mayor?
Or was sandroba another viable option for mayor for you?

I actually like the lynch the mayor candidate plan. But I really think that scum would bet on their best horse. So if there's one scum mayor candidate, it would be a well established player IMO. That leaves us with?

BC? Sandro?

unlikely sandro.

In a game with meapak, myself, BM, incog, and L would make far better "horses" than sandro We are all higher profile players and at least of the 5, 3 of us have decent scum games. Sandro has less experience in both town and mafia compared to the rest of us.

Great, BC not only is duped by sandro into voting for Palmar in exchange for his vote he defended him day 1 as well. More mafia points. Now we have even more details of the deal in case you guys have all forgotten:

On January 15 2012 06:10 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

I agreed if elected to not day 1 lynch foolishness or incog who I have scum reads on.

Instead I will choose someone else.

Thats right mafia sandroba was bargaining for protact and foolishness' lives. The very people BC is so snug in the bed with atm. BC is adamant about their pro-town status but has not brought this out as the MAJOR concern it should be. Even more mafia points for BC. BC your lack of suspicion on these people is either horribly negligent as town or looking out for your mafia buddies.

Night 1

On to his acceptance speech:

On January 15 2012 12:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 15 2012 12:12 wherebugsgo wrote:

On January 15 2012 12:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

On January 15 2012 12:07 wherebugsgo wrote:

On January 15 2012 12:07 bumatlarge wrote:

On January 15 2012 12:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

On January 15 2012 12:02 bumatlarge wrote:
I think it's too late now? I still like protact, no one has gone in depth why he shouldnt be mayor

all gut feelings and one line accusations :/

bum really? His only cause to analyze me is he doesn't like my claim and is using year old + games to prove his case against me where the style in both was completely different.

Everyone go back and read pick your power 3 and read jimbo silvers play, guess what, that was incog. Compare to this game now.

You think he is SK? :D

No i don't think you are scum, protact said he wouldnt kill you. Just because protact is mayor doesnt mean he gets to decide the next lynch. If he does lynch you he has a lot to answer to :/

Protact already washed his hands of BC. He's going to lynch macpo.

I'll be shocked if macpo actually flips scum.

Honestly, at this point if he doesnt lynch me is is confirmed scum. Do I want to die? No, but if he gunned this hard to analyze me to death as red then refuses to pull the trigger then hes full of shit. He knows I won't flip red and knows he will die right after. If he is able to fuck with town this hard now, keeping me around to continue to argue with will make more confusion and waste more time -_-

IMO he's already almost 100% scum just by the fact that he chose Macpo shortly after Foolishness suspected him.

It makes total sense from a scum perspective if you are town; you are a risky day 1 lynch and if you flip town that puts a lot of pressure on Protact. So instead he chooses the target that the number 1 scumhunter would choose (Macpo) and then washes his hands of the responsibility of lynching you.

It's incredibly fishy. The unfortunate part about all of this is the fact that we've very likely elected a scum to office, and we lost a very good chance to lynch scum today.

Apparently I got mayor (was requested to send in my lynch choice)

Palmar was my pick

Don't look so underwhelmed you only put 4 pages of your 8 page filter into getting mayor. Thats right half of BC's posts were made on day 1 in the interest of getting himself mayor. Grand. Then immediately a switch goes off and he's making either A) useless short posts, or B) defense posts of his failed lynch of palmar or his actions creating the pro-mafia whirlwind that was mason talk.

BC's first major attack of night 1 is on, guess who? kingjames01! That's right, BC attacks kingjames before kingjames goes ballistic on myself, daring BC to do this, daring BC to do that (which I might add BC never actually caved in to his wishes). Check out his Day 2 attack on Day 3's townie lynch here. Unbelievable. Unfathomable. Unpredictable!!!!! Another shady move from our beloved mayor. Moreover, WHY did he make this attack? Because he was attacked mostly. I can't remember what you guys call this. OMGUS? Yeah this is a form of that.

Erstwhile at this time BC is still distancing himself from Protactinium leading up until the moment before the reveal of night 1's events. Then poof! Ciryandor has been killed! Protactinium has been cleared of any suspicion despite not actuallly getting to lead a lynch against him. Yes, he ran initially on the goal of getting him lynched, but he never lead Ciry to death himself. So reconsider how much credit you are giving Proact because of this mafia death. It was a vigilante and it was unexpected for mafia.

Now on to Day 2:

Day 2 starts, and BC is mostly useless. Lots of short posts until we come upon this post. BC doesn't out and out make a case but he takes his buddy Foolishness's idea of lynching Macpo and runs with it. On the condition that he doesn't say "you all are stupidly tunneling sandro, go after just Macpo this case is good!" He includes the option of GGQ whose allegiance is yet to be determined and could be a way of hedging his bets.

[url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13168154Next post[/url] he makes he attacks Jackal our vigilante de jour, unsuccessfully garnering any support. More posts defending his stance and defending Proact and sandroba. He [url=http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=13168552]piggybacks on Foolishness' analysis post[/url] but isn't presenting great ideas on his own so far. He is still pushing Jackal but is starting to realize the case against Macpo is gaining headway and starts to consider this as a valid vote. He never makes any serious push for Macpo.

Now to the rest of the game
Major inactivity for BC. He announces he was masoning Protact yesterday. We all know how yesterday went. BC pushes long time for BM + kingjames as the lynches. Last few hours switches off to sandroba (who is going to get modkilled) because he wants to save his lovely Protact. The fact he pushed for the death of sandroba is the only even slightly town thing he has done all game but my friends this isn't a town action at all as he gets us to waste a vote on a player who is going to be mod-killed anyways!

Summary
BC has done nothing to actually benefit town. He frateranizes with sandroba, lynches Palmar at sandroba's behest and does not raise suspicions against those sandroba bargained for him NOT TO KILL (protact and foolishness). He in fact is in tight allegiance with these players. His actions are not those of town and I am convinced we have a mafia mayor. We are an hour from the beginning of day 4. I will be campaigning full-on for this man's death.

IF YOU DO NOTHING ELSE READ THE SUMMARY. I know this is a long ass post but BC his incredibly suspicios right now. More so than BM. Our power players right now are very suspicious right now people. But this one absolutely must go ASAP.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 02:00 GMT

#3395

It is time to shatter paradigms people. These men at the top are not to be trusted. They are dirty and corrrupt and RED all over.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 02:33 GMT

#3402

Foolishness has been pretty worthless town to boot if you look at his history. He's only unquestioned because he's tight with Protact/BC. He's been building many lists but not making many strong cases. On my bad guy list atm.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 02:45 GMT

#3408

BC is the mayor (literally this is a power role) and he drove the kill BM train all day long until he decided to get off it and hop the sandroba train late in the day.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 03:05 GMT

#3416

rip protact. you were invaluable for town and I'm assuming you made some great checks in addition to solid reads.

scamp I hardly knew yeh.

GGQ is a weird lynch. I thought he was suspicious enough to keep around.

Now, our elected officials need to go. It is looking more and more like one or both of them is mafia.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 03:10 GMT

#3419

Lots of people need to die because of sandroba's flip toadesstern but you need to put BC at the top of your list.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 03:17 GMT

#3422

Why do you want to lynch a lurker who has had no real case made against him? What about my case against BC is lacking enough that we should give him more time? Why don't you want BM dead either?

And mafia choses their masons this was something that was discussed ad nauseam earlier in the game on day 1.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 03:38 GMT

#3427

Logs have been faked over and over and over again from what I understand in this history of mafia. To not want to lynch someone because you don't think logs are faked is a mistake and poor logic to boot.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 03:54 GMT

#3435

On January 22 2012 12:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Ok people. You can jump up and down and yell at me all you want however. BM DIES NOW.

You guys can all say "but BC we don't trust you" Yea so let me ask you this. Why are we not following the advice of the dead town DT who snagged near every red thus far this game?

BM drops. If he somehow flips town im fucked and dead after.

If anyone was jailed last night, claim it. If anyone took a hit same shit, if you were rb'd again.

Anyone who was mason'd to scamp should be coming forward as well.

The mafia are running with their tails in their legs trying to keep bm alive right now, DO NOT LET IT HAPPEN.

Who are you insinuating is mafia then?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 03:59 GMT

#3440

Who is trying to keep BM alive? Last I saw it was you, proact (may he rest in peace), and foolishness who worked so hard for him to live just one more day yesterday.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:01 GMT

#3441

Toadesstern he was also wrong on Jackal.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:10 GMT

#3446

On January 22 2012 13:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

except jackal admits to purposely derping to make sure he got to shoot. He has been his typical self since then for the most part. With his play he should have known that would happen. He was wrong on Kingjames like I was who was arguably the unofficial mafia of the game as the guy was clearly behaving as a mafia would.

Seriously, no one should be hesitating to lynch BM at the moment.

What point are you trying to make? He called his shot right as the clock struck midnight. He is town. What does anything before or after that moment in time have to do with his alignment? He is like 99.9% town. He shot and killed one of the best mafia players on TL.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:11 GMT

#3449

The only reason Protact made that mistake was that he was composing his list while Jackal was calling his shot. Protact posted that list four minutes after Jackal called his shot.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:12 GMT

#3450

He has no reason to defend Protact putting you on his list. It wouldn't have happened if you guys hadn't coincidentally posted in the same 5 minute window.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:13 GMT

#3452

He's just trying to make his agenda (Proact's old lists) seem more viable and he isn't using any sound logic while he's at it.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:14 GMT

#3453

Moreover he's more defending his previous attacks on you than he is attacking Protact's putting on your list.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:15 GMT

#3456

On January 22 2012 13:14 p4NDemik wrote:
Moreover he's more defending his previous attacks on you than he is attacking Protact's putting on your list.

"than he is defending Protact's putting you on his list"

editing post above me i dk what your acronym is blah blah

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:17 GMT

#3458

On January 22 2012 13:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

As you are trying to discredit the dead man, I would say there is a valid reason.

wtf I'm not discrediting him I just gave a very clean and very logical reason why Jackal was still on his list at that point in time. He was busy composing that list at nearly the same time Jackal called his hit. If he would have read and realized he wouldn't have put Jackal on his list. I have nothing against Protact here I was posting a simple clarification to toad's mistake and explaining why Protact made that mistake. In a roundabout way I was sort of helping you by explaining away one of Protact's mistakes.

But yet you are on my ass ... wonder why.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:19 GMT

#3460

Jackal the important thing is why is BC attacking me just now I actually just helped him a bit.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:20 GMT

#3462

BC u mad bro? Can't hide your inner mafia emotions that even when I help you in a roundabout way you still attack me?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:33 GMT

#3472

On January 22 2012 13:22 Jackal58 wrote:

Show nested quote +

Because he gets a tad arrogant?

Fair enough if you want to read it that way but that's not how I see it. I feel like I've done enough and I've presented myself in such a way that I am playing very much with town's interestes in mind. I have been very active and very town. He's been careful not to push very hard that I am mafia up until this point in time because I have been very pro-town and a case against me would be very difficult to make.

Now. He presents Protact's agenda on top of his casket and tells us to follow our brave leader despite him being dead and not being able to give us actual guidance. He does this to rally support behind an initiative that isn't mine and that wouldn't spell his demise obviously. Now, what I did was clarify a small mistake in Toadesstern's analysis of Protact's list. But I quickly followed that up with the point that the fact you were on that list is not Protact's fault and should not take away from the merit of the list. I did not detract from the merit of Protact's list. All I did was clarify a small error.

But BC is mad and hinting I'm mafia. Which is absurd. I think we saw a brief moment of BC's real emotions slipping out folks.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:46 GMT

#3477

@ BC: Ok you didn't say I was mafia. I was reading into "I would say there is a valid reason" the wrong way. Whatever, my mistake disregard that stuff about you letting emotions slip. The point still remains, why are you defending his putting Jackal on the list the way you did. I thought my way was the most logical way to defend it. You are defending yourself as well as Protact.

Now. We have this.

On January 22 2012 13:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

To save the dt who is now dead? That same dt who's near final words were kill bm -_-

Do you seriously think hes town? Honestly? Can you sit in your chair with a straight face and say "bm is town"?

Bm has performed badly and three people were duped by a claim.

You weren't duped at all. You never believed him. You were doing this to make you look like you were these good town trying to save our savior Mr. Protactinium. Then you murdered Protact in the night and went back to attacking BM. Don't make it look like you were ever fooled. I think you're a better player than that. Yesterday you even made a point that you guys didn't truly believe him, you just "didn't want to take the risk." Again, you are trying to gain brownie points by "saving" protact before you murder him.

And don't get me wrong I still want to lynch BM I think he is likely red. Even if he is Mad Hatter he doesn't do town any good if he lives very much longer. If he is town-aligned his ability to take town some mafia is more valuable than his ability to jail dudes at night provided he has time to get good reads and doesn't suck (but then again he kinda sucks so =/).

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 04:59 GMT

#3486

On January 22 2012 13:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

so that means that 3 people who first unvoted are all either red or horribad right? Since it was done based on his claim and all.

It means you weren't duped but you said you were which is a lie and even worse something you are using to defend your agenda. Why would you admit that you are horrible town when you are trying to push your agenda? Because you are mafia, not horrible town.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 05:01 GMT

#3489

lol jackal jumping on a fake log that is from another game lololololol facepalm

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 05:14 GMT

#3492

Drunk Jackal strikes again!

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 05:26 GMT

#3495

Can you guys please put who the subs subbed for in parenthasis next to their name on the player list or something it is getting quite annoying trying to do deductive analysis involving guys who are subs.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 05:39 GMT

#3503

Thanks evantrees

its just annoying that once this thread moves on it is a pain to find that information

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 05:41 GMT

#3505

Yesterday you would have explained that as BM having a horrible town meta BC. But thanks for clarifying that.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 07:38 GMT

#3520

editing previous post *parentheses

Lets do some analysis of the day 1 election for mayor and go through the sequence of events. I'm going to post colored summaries like we have seen people make thus far. Between then I'll give my thoughts on what mafia was trying to achieve with the votes.

On January 14 2012 07:49 flamewheel wrote:
Day 1 Election Vote Tally

Votes for Bill Murray (2)
Foolishness
VisceraEyes

Votes for kitaman27 (1)
bumatlarge

Votes for VisceraEyes (1)
blahz0r

Votes for BloodyC0bbler (3)
Meapak_Ziphh
risk.nuke
Bill Murray
GGQ

Votes for Protactinium (1)
Palmar

28 hours and 13 minutes remain in the day.

This is the first look we have at the votes given by flamewheel. None of our flipped mafia have showed on it. Not surprisingly they are holding on to most of their votes. Not much interesting to talk about here because of this. Could be some red names in here but lets not speculate. Lets work with what we know and the names that have flipped. Moving on.

The next time flamewheel posts a summary is like a full day (real time not mafia time) after the previous one, so I am going to put together another summary that captures the vote list with roughly 16 hours left to vote, immediately after Kurumi voted for Protactinium:

Day 1 Election Vote Tally as of Jan. 14 @ 19:57 KST

Votes for Bill Murray (2)
VisceraEyes
bumatlarge

Votes for kitaman27 (2)
evantrees
Bill Murray

Votes for VisceraEyes (2)
blahz0r
Cyber_Cheese

Votes for BloodyC0bbler (5)
Meapak_Ziphh
risk.nuke
GGQ
zeks (vaderseven)
Lanaia

Votes for Protactinium (3)
Palmar
Adam4167
Kurumi

Votes for Meapak_Ziphh (1)
JayJay54

Votes for sandroba (1)
Nisani201

Votes for Mattchew (1)
Foolishness

there were roughly 19 hours left to vote at this point. There were only 17 of 50 votes cast at this point.

Alright things are getting more interesting. But still there are no red names that have voted. I have some thoughts despite this. You can clearly see how Protactinium's campaign resonated with town aligned roles, this should have been clear by a quick look at the final tally. This will continue be a theme of his as his group of votes grows. And since he based his campaign around lynching a mafia (Ciryandor) he is extremely dangerous to mafia. They have an active interest in keeping him from getting elected. BC get's Protact's day 1 lynch focus in this period of time as well. Later, he will switch to Macpo making red votes for him even more unlikely. Still, there is no way he could have red support in any fashion at this point in the game he is too dangerous. The only way mafia votes for him is if they are absolutely sure that he won't get mayor and it its probable they don't even want him in as Sheriff but we'll talk about this later in the analysis.

Next. We have Nisani201 voting for sandroba. Check out his reasoning in this post. His reasons for disliking BC are valid, and many others shared them. He likes sandroba because of the mass mason claim though? This is a bit fishy. Lets look into sandroba's campaign at this point:

On January 13 2012 17:11 sandroba wrote:
Hi everybody, I'll be running for mayor and I need your support. The whole basis of my campaign is being town and pretty decent at figuring out scum. Myself holding day1 lynch and 3 votes everyday is a pretty good deal on average I'd say so. Also it's ridiculously easy to figure out my alignment not only because I suck as scum, but also because I hate it and usually can't keep up with the thread after a few days. So yeah, you don't have to worry about that because I'm thankfully town this game. Another benefit to electing me is that I usually get shot pretty early on (normally day2 the latest), and I can tell you that keeping me alive will improve town's chances by a lot. Let me say that there is no fucking reason to not elect a trustworthy established sumhunter in favor of electing a new player whose millage may vary. The main goal of the mayor role is to get someone who can reliably get scum lynched and be a threat to mafia. Putting in a random dude has no benefit to town and can even be detrimental if the dude has his head stuck up his ass.
So town gather up and give me your support, because mafia isn't going to let me get this position easily. It makes them feel unsafe and fearful. They are right. I'm coming for them.

This is his campaign post. Not the most inspiring thing. Probably the reason why he had no votes for a full day before he got this vote from Nisani. Now, does this make Nisani red? I don't know, possibly. Considering he is very much a lurker in this game that is more than enough reason to suspect him already. Nisani does oppose the Palmar lynch ticket, but asserts that scum-hunting on day one is useless. Points for mafia there. Before Macpo flipped he also attacked Protact and pushed for his lynch. Mafia is scared of Protact. Could be a reason to go after him. He could also be bad. I dk I'm not familiar with him. But he's one to keep in mind later. last point - sandroba was one of the biggest pushes of the mason talk day 1 along with BC, not a protown thing, but Nisani uses this confusion as his basis for a vote. A bit illogical. Town is confused at this point of the game, not voting for a guy screaming for mass claim.

Next we have some unvotes during this time window. Foolishness changes his vote to Mattchew following the revelation of Macpo's mason-ness. I can't get a read if this is townish or mafiaish atm so to the next unvote we go! bumatlarge switches his vote and decides to vote for Bill Murray. Again, dk Bill's alignment so I'm gonna relax on the analysis of this but it is worth mentioning he discounts Protact's motives in his post. Another pretty lurkerish dude for most of this game. Keep an eye on him. Finally BM unvotes and votes for kitaman27. We all know my thoughts on BM. And kita also hasn't flipped and is pretty lurkerish. No comment on this. Lets move ahead another 12 hours, shall we?

On January 15 2012 06:18 flamewheel wrote:
Day 1 Election Vote Tally

Votes for Bill Murray (4)
VisceraEyes
bumatlarge
Macpo
Toadesstern

Votes for kitaman27 (1)
evantrees

Votes for VisceraEyes (1)
blahz0r

Votes for BloodyC0bbler (8)
Meapak_Ziphh
risk.nuke
GGQ
zeks (vaderseven)
Lanaia
glurio
Cyber_Cheese
Foolishness

Votes for Protactinium (3)
Palmar
Adam4167
Kurumi

Votes for sandroba (1)
Nisani201

Votes for supersoft (1)
Bill Murray

Mattchew being modkilled means that Jayjay54 and Scamp need to find somebody else to vote for. 5 hours and 42 minutes remain in the day.

A whole slew of people have yet to vote.

Munk-E has yet to post.

We have our first red vote! BM you dirty boy. If you are mafia (which I think you are) your team has put you in position to be more likely to be considered down the stretch. These 1 vote guys who are just part of the pack are your Ralph Naders of the election. We wouldn't want to be one of those now would we? But one mafia vote isn't enough to condemn you 100% so lets just leave it at that.

Back to Protactinium's ticket. He remains stalled. He changed his lych candidate and town is a bit skittish, and mafia sure as hell isn't going to vote for him. They're more likely putting votes into BC's candidacy, which is gaining some steam. We still don't know the alignment of his electorate though so lets hold on making any more conclusions about the man I want lynched.

JayJay54 unvotes and both he and the now deceased Scamp vote for Mattchew. Not much to conclude from this though, just making note of the unvote. If I haven't made it clear, I'm keeping track of unvotes because they represent a possible swing of 2 votes when candidates are compared. Thus they carry more weight in turning the election in mafia's favor. Next point.

L votes for himself during this period because he is an egomaniacal mafioso who wasn't serious about his campaign at all. Lets ignore this and come back to him when he does vote again.

BM unvotes and then votes supersoft who as you all know I suspect to be mafia, had a horrible defense, and has done no protown action in quite some while. He relied on BC/Proact/Foolishness train to live, not himself. He did not defend himself vigorously and never took an accusation at his town-ness seriously. I believe supersoft is scummy, and this is an irrelevant vote for someone who wasn't about to be mayor/sheriff any time soon. BM still looking red in my eyes.

Cyber_Cheese unvotes VisceraEyes because VisceraEyes is a bit of an idiot. Can't have idiot mayors. Especially ones that want you dead. He switches to BC. VE did revoke his own candidacy it bears mentioning though. I don't have any special reads on this one but lets juts notice the theme of BC and BM getting good spots for a run at mayor. One or both of these is likely mafia in my mind. Oh yeah, Foolishness has to unvote Mattchew because Mattchew is also an idiot. No read on this but he's finally found his hetero-life-partner in BC a bond that has yet to be questioned. Now lets skip ahead again.

On January 15 2012 09:31 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Current Vote Count

Bill Murray (8)
Macpo
Toadesstern
blahz0r
supersoft
rgtheShworz
Giygas
bumatlarge
jackal58

Kitaman27 (1)
evantrees

VisceraEyes (1)
L

BloodyC0bbler (8) first
Meapak_Ziphh
risk.nuke
GGQ
zeks
Lanaia
glurio
Cyber_Cheese
Foolishness

Protactinium (7)
Palmar
Adam4167
Kurumi
Cwave
Slardar
Liquid`Sheth
Jayjay54

Sandroba (1)
Nisani201

Supersoft (1)
Bill Murray

L (2)
~OpZ~
Scamp

Wherebugsgo (3)
Mr. Wiggles
Kenpachi
VisceraEyes

Day ends in 2.5 hours. Get your votes in!

Bill Murray continues to gather steam. He has gotten the support of some for sure town, but bumatlarge is a bit sketchy, and supersoft and rgTheSchworz even sketchier. Could still be a mafia-supported candidate with multiple mafia votes backing him.

L votes VisceraEyes, a pointless vote and one that at this point is helping spread out their vote. Typical mafia strategy at work. VE is most likely town though as he is not an actual candidate (not to mention at the current day his outbursts have made him look even more town).

BC's campaign has now stalled. Makes sense that mafia wouldn't put any votes on him as long as he has a sizeable lead. He's still a possible mafia candidate.

Protact is getting more support! Yay for town but unfortunately it isn't fruitful

Sheth shows yet again how town roles flock to Protact's campaign. Protact's proximity and chance of being mayor is high still, and mafia can't risk more votes for him though. I could see Cwave as a possible mafia trying to slip in at this point but not Slardar or JayJay. If they can mafia would like to infiltrate this campaign but if it means putting him at the top or within a few votes of the top of the list of candidates they wouldn't do it.

OpZ and Scamp have voted for L like I said not a campaign mafia actually cares about but it isn't beyond them slipping in some votes to hide. OpZ is a lurker extraordinaire this game and could be mafia. Keep an eye on this guy.

wherebugsgo has entered the race and got those oh-so quick votes! The quickness of the votes immediately classified him as a suspect candidate and if he was mafia they didn't care about him getting in. Possibly one mafia vote in here I say. Maybe Kenpachi who knows. This campaign isn't really of any relevance in the greater scheme of things. Now lets see the final picture and start to draw some conclusions and list some suspect votes!

I'm actually going to post this with the final vote analysis soon to come I just really don't want to have a crash and somehow lose all of this analysis.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 08:51 GMT

#3523

I'm running town in circles? I feel like I'm putting great analysis out there. You think I'm terrible for town atmosphere? I object.

My final analysis of the day 1 election is still coming btw. Stay tuned.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 08:52 GMT

#3524

If you think my analysis is running town in circles then come at me bro. Attack my analysis. Attack my logic instead of defaming my name. Show your pro-town skillz. You have a good pedigree behind your town play but I have yet to see it.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 08:54 GMT

#3525

Until Foolish shows he is capable of putting out anything of the quality that I am I'd urge town to disregard his attack at my character.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 10:04 GMT

#3527

On January 15 2012 12:20 flamewheel wrote:
Day 1 Election Vote Tally

Votes for Bill Murray (11) Second
Macpo
Toadesstern
rgTheSchworz
Jackal58
GiygaS
Munk-E
EchelonTee
Nisani201
Mr. Wiggles
Ciryandor
kitaman27

Votes for kitaman27 (1)
evantrees

Votes for BloodyC0bbler (11) First
Meapak_Ziphh
risk.nuke
GGQ
zeks (now vaderseven)
Lanaia
glurio
Cyber_Cheese
Foolishness
supersoft
wherebugsgo
VisceraEyes

Votes for Protactinium (10)
Palmar
Adam4167
Kurumi
Cwave
Liquid`Sheth
Jayjay54
Jitsu
p4NDemik
bumatlarge
blahz0r

Votes for supersoft (1)
Bill Murray

Votes for L (2)
~OpZ~
Scamp

Votes for wherebugsgo (2)
Kenpachi
Slardar

Votes for VisceraEyes (1)
L

Votes for Meapak_Ziphh (1)
BloodyC0bbler

BloodyC0bbler is elected as Mayor and Bill Murray is his new Sheriff.

There are a lot of non-voters. Chaosquo is excused for this cycle, but to my count that still leaves...
kingjames01
BrownBear (super super super super lurker atm)
sandroba
igabod (replaced by jaj22)
Erandorr (replaced by hiro protagonist, our claimed detective who has not revealed the rest of his info)
Protactinium
rtgICEMAN
Maxella

Replacements are being sought after, though I'm sensing modkills.

I hope everyone will excuse me putting myself as green. I am not against you guys keeping an open mind at all but I want to show my thought process here. I know I am not mafia thus I will use that in my deductive reasoning.

I also now realize I need to clarify BM's lynch candidate now though because I have neglected that thus far and it is a stupid oversight for which I apologize.

A look at his filter shows he initially wanted CC dead but renigged on that and decided on the 14th 1 day in that we should kill sandroba. Big town points for BM I'm surprised I've finally found something pro-town. Alas, BM switched off of sandroba on the 14th at roughly 19:00 KST (rather early on at the time of the second vote count I have listed). He wanted OpZ or Mattchew dead at this point. At 21:00 KST he seems to be back on the sandroba death train (albeit not as strongly as before and after a lot of switching now). Up until the end of the election he wanted sandroba to die as evidenced by this post. OK MAJOR townpoints for BM I apologize for not fully realizing this and being to lazy to go fully through your filter because you looked like such an idiot townie and therefor so red.

*** PEOPLE THIS IS CRUCIAL BOTH PROCTACT AND BM WANTED MAFIA DEAD IF THEY WERE ELECTED. THIS IS REASON TO KEEP BM ALIVE FOR THE MOMENT AND ATTACK WHO ENDED UP AS MAYOR: BloodyC0bbler *** It is possible BM is still a mafia candidate who they sacked for the best candidate though, but this sheer fact should keep our town idiot alive. Now for more analysis!

All of our flipped reds are now present (at least represented in the list as sandroba did not vote). Sandroba not voting makes sense, an active mafioso doesn't vote to help spread the mafia vote - not voting does in a way spread the vote. With the vote as close as it was I have my doubts this was entirely intentional though, but even moreso I doubt they would have any more than 1 fellow mafia that didn't vote in addition to sandroba.

Now lets move on to the votes because fuck those people that didn't vote and got mod-killed or played horribly like kj (I don't hate you kj, but COME ON!!

). Protact I will forgive in honor of his great deeds done for town, that and the other viable candidates look to be at this point very much possible mafia. There very well may not have been another good town candidate left at this point.

Jitsu votes early in these last few hours. His vote is pretty cruicial because it tied Protactinium with the suspect mafia candidates. This vote and the ones that followed put a lot of pressure on the mafia. He is unlikely to be mafia by my book, but not exempt of scrutiny as he hasn't done enough during the game to warrant anyone trusting this read too much.

Protact is getting major traction at this point. blahz0r, bumat, and I all vote Protact. Bumat and blahz0r both unvote at this point as well and there is only a little over an hour left. Protact has a 3 vote lead! Needless to say my vote at this moment of time makes me look even more green because I was the vote that put Protact in the lead. This is a fortunate coincidence for me at this point in time but honestly after all the effort I've put in for town I hope you guys believed my town-ness before I had to make this point. #1 priority for mafia during the election is to escape the day without any of their crew dying. #2 is getting elected roles. As always is the priority of not being found out. Lets delve farther into the vote though. I'm going to be looking at every vote now because they are getting more and more crucial. Context is important for each vote.

We have our top lurker of the game award winning Munk-E showing up to vote BM! Likely mafia voting for likely mafia in my eyes. This vote puts BM at 7 votes to Protacts 11. BC has 8 votes.

VisceraEyes unvotes the pointless wherebugsgo campaign and revotes for Protactinium. We'll be seeing more from him later though. Protact now has 12 votes, with BM at 7 and BC at 8. For now this is a townie looking vote with townie motives.

Evantrees attempts to vote for VisceraEyes, but fails to unvote. His vote will stay on his initial vote of kitaman27. Don't know what to say about this. Stupid town play, mafia play status is uncertain. We have bigger fish to fry atm lets look to the next vote.

Nisani201 has unvoted sandroba and switched to Bill Murray! This could be a very telling vote. His was one that could have been a mafia trying to spread votes earlier, but now their nuts are in a vice, and he is consolidating. Both of his votes have possible mafia motives. Upgrade this guy to orange on our town security scale! Reminder to self: we need to look at his post reasoning in depth when time allows. As well as his entire filter by that measure. Protact has 12, BM has 8, and BC has 8 votes.

EchelonTee votes Bill Murray. Also a suspect vote and worth looking into his filter and vote reasons with a close eye for bullshit. He did not unvote and he did not have a previously smelly post so I won't put his priority level above that of Nisani though. Protact has 12 votes, BM 9, and BC 8.

Slardar unvotes Protactinium and votes for WBG now. This is a bit of a lateral move in the mafia's eyes. Protact now is at 11 with BM 9 BC 8. Slardar's vote doesn't further their agenda anymore than bringing down Protact's vote count. Still could be mafia yanking support when in a pinch but not as suspect as Nisani again. Could also be mafia spreading their vote. Dk. Protact 11 BM 9 BC 8.

Mr Wiggles, townie, votes for BM, fuck our lives right? Oh well he's a townie and Protact is up 11 to BM's 10 and BC's 8.

BC votes now. He votes for Meapak, a cadidate that in his works "he at least knows isn't retarded." This doesn't help town, and can possibly be mafia hiding in the woodwork of a candidate who had no prior support. ADDENDUM: BOTH OTHER VIABLE CANDIDATES WANTED SCUM DEAD IN FACT highly suspicious vote highly suspicious reasoning. No town points rewarded for BM and he does not pass go. Protact 11, BM 10, and BC 8. This is where mafia makes their play.

Now supersoft, my pet mafia project dejour that I haven't forgotten switches his vote from BM to BC. SUPER SUSPICIOUS. Protact 11, BM 9, BC 9. BC IS RED AND SO IS THIS SCUM. They both need to die ASAP. Sheeping mafia scumbag who BC defended needs to go.

Ciryandor votes for BM. Protact 11, BM 10, BC 9. Mafia motives will become more clear with the final votes.

wherebugsgo votes for BC. Protact 11, BM 10, BC 10. I previously thought he was just bad town but wherebugsgo could very well be mafia folks. Need to read his filter over again, all I can think off the top of my head is he hasnt' don't much pro-town lately or ever as far as I know but until now I've passed it off as bad play.

VisceraEyes UNVOTES Protact and votes BC. Crucial vote puts BC in as mayor. Crucially suspicious. Need to read this guy's filter (this is frustrating because his outbursts made me think he was stupo-town). BC 11, BM 10, Protact 10.

Finally kitaman votes Bill Murray. Ties the candidates but BC wins by tiebreaker rules. I dk could be mafia could be town but this guy has been lurking hardcore to my recollection so he warrants a look regardless.

Jitsu unsuccessfully tries to withdraw his vote for Protact and vote for BC. Could be a panicked mafia making a mistake before his buddies realized they had won or before they had time to properly talk to him. Could be a lazy townie. I don't know.

BUT TL:DR:

BloodyC0bbler is DEAD RED and I need your help town to make sure he goes TONIGHT. BM wanted to kill sandroba during the lynch and this should earn him one more day of life. His prior idiocy prevented me from verifying this and made me ignore his I told you so's like the rest of you. Please town!

##Vote BloodyC0bbler

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 10:05 GMT

#3528

fml its 5 am and I have a splitting headache. I made a mistake in my running count and had to redo my analysis T-T

I need to sleep now but I hope everyone will be doing the right thing by the time I awake!

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 10:10 GMT

#3529

For sure mafia:

BloodyC0bbler
supersoft

Less for sure but high-up suspects:

Foolishness (99%)

People we need to be suspicious of:

shitton of people my head hurts goodnight.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 10:13 GMT

#3530

Also ##vote double lynch I feel those three of Foolishness, BC, and supersoft are suspect enough that we have all the reason in the world to go for a double lynch tomorrow after BC comes back red like I know he is and if you follow my logic you know as well.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 10:48 GMT

#3536

Ok so IEM Kiev last day is starting and Zenio is still in it so I think I'll stay awake for the moment or at least until Zenio is eliminated.

JayJay54 why would sandroba not vote for BC in the vote thread? BC was the only candidate who wasn't going to lynch scum. It looks like an actual mafia mistake. I have not marked all of the vote-hoppers as scum. I list them as suspect. supersoft is the only one I am sure is scum along with BC and Foolishness (almost just as likely as supersoft). I don't think a last minute vote switch is something that is going to garner more town support at all. We saw vote switches stall Protactinium's campaign and indecision and vote switching is sketchier the closer you get to the deadline. The circumstances of this "compromise" made it even more suspect in my eyes. I don't see how this is a good arguing point saying these votes are more likely to be town and BC is more likely to be town.

Logs can and have been faked before. I've seen it in games. Other people have attested to seeing it happen in games. Other people in this thread have attested to doing it themselves in games. BC is gutsy mafia. This is something he would do. Again not a reason to ignore my case for BC.

Yes, my analysis is good, and BM WANTED SCUM DEAD. Day 1! Why are you voting for him over the more suspect BC?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 10:52 GMT

#3538

BM wanted scum dead day 1 people! I know he has been stupid and wrong and the village idiot but don't hang him because of this. He has some actual town leaning actions we just discounted them up until now because he was such an idiot. BC has NO town-aligned actions at all and he needs to hang before BM!

BM can and should still die. He needs one more night to put out the rest of his bombs if actually Mad Hatter though which is looking a little more likely. His claimed role is useless if we don't kill him, and if he is scum we need to kill him anyways. But this BC vote takes precedence! Please follow my logic and vote BC!

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 11:29 GMT

#3541

Jayjay you are writing off the fact that one of the people BC could have been faking it is already confirmed scum. It is far easier to fake a conversation when you are both scum and roleplaying that you are town than it is to manufacture both sides of a log out of thin air. If it was hypothetically this long of a log in a game where he has to make up comments of a confirmed town and present them under scrutiny then yes I'd say no way he manufactured it.

I definitely think that they both could have manufactured it and roleplayed. if they are mafia and they are going this far to avoid a red name dying day 1 with everything relying on this interchange being genuine then yes they are going to roleplay and falsify logs. They are going to be pressed hard for them.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 11:34 GMT

#3542

On January 22 2012 20:07 Cwave wrote:
Got mason'd by Jitsu last day and i can confirm that BM atleast provided the same two names as BG's to us. With that, we also saw BC list one of the Bg's as scum that BM provided us. Why would a mayor list one of his bg as scum?

Because he thinks they are scum? The questionability of this move relies a lot on who it is and why he has listed them as scum. If he has good reasons then he has good reasons. If he has a weak case, one that he shouldn't be sure enough of to present in the thread then he is more likely scum.

Whether you want to release this one bg's name is up to you, jitsu, and BM, but considering our mayor and sheriff are our two main candidates for lynching anyways I think it makes sense to release this information to decide which is the better lynch.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 11:38 GMT

#3543

On January 22 2012 20:29 p4NDemik wrote:
Jayjay you are writing off the fact that one of the people BC could have been faking it is already confirmed scum. It is far easier to fake a conversation when you are both scum and roleplaying that you are town than it is to manufacture both sides of a log out of thin air. If it was hypothetically this long of a log in a game where he has to make up comments of a confirmed town and present them under scrutiny then yes I'd say no way he manufactured it.

I definitely think that they both could have manufactured it and roleplayed. if they are mafia and they are going this far to avoid a red name dying day 1 with everything relying on this interchange being genuine then yes they are going to roleplay and falsify logs. They are going to be pressed hard for them.

On top of this if you want to use that post to give Foolishness town points that is well and good but BC should not get the same amount of town points. He may deserve to be viewed in a little more townish light but not enough to not warrant his lynch imo.

I also think if foolish is town he would be fighting me harder and not defaming me. Something more like your post and not like his. He's supposed to be good town with good reads. I want to lynch his town (in his eyes) mayor right now. Why is he not fighting harder than this?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 12:02 GMT

#3547

supersoft are you seriously still making posts that are this unhelpful? You cannot be town and be such an active mafia player like you are supposed to be.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 12:05 GMT

#3549

Alright JayJay I can see I'm not getting through to you on that front and I see no further way to push.

Can you tell me what you honestly think about my case against supersoft then? I presented a strong one against him and he has made little to no effort to propose a real defense. He hasn't been helpful and he hasn't done anything for town in ages.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 12:07 GMT

#3550

His biggest defense has been Foolishness and BC going to a post that supersoft made on the 15th. Something that he didn't bring up himself. That has literally been the best they have been able to muster. The defense of supersoft thus far this game has been pitiful.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 15:36 GMT

#3569

Wtf do we have a german in here that has proven his townness in here that can give a reliable translation? How the fuck are we supposed to use that? I don't want to have to rely on google translate

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 15:37 GMT

#3570

How is talking in german in his logs pro town at all btw? Pending the translation of this post this makes sandroba look even more scum. Town would want to keep their logs in something town understands. Toad either you were stupid to go along with this or you are more suspicious than I thought you were.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 15:55 GMT

#3572

On January 22 2012 22:49 supersoft wrote:

Show nested quote +

you realize that i dont spit out these names for fun.
Do you think one of them is town and why

Of course you don't spit them out for fun. You either spit them out like this because you are lazy ass town and you don't care much about winning (unlikely) or you are bad mafia you do care about winning (very likely). This is ridiculous you haven't posted any analysis but here goes I'll post some analysis and prove why I am still more town than you will ever be in a million years:

Conveniently all of your candidates are largely lurkers who don't have much to sink my teeth into but lets see here:

~OpZ~ is a claimed mason. You are attacking him after voting for him yesterday so at least this is a bit honorable.

He voted for L as mayor could be red play but definitely not damning.
He voted for Protactinium for a lynch day 2. I could see this as a town play. It wouldn't be a town play if it had been any later. Could be mafia play though. Null read here.
He voted for your death yesterday - doesn't help or hurt his case as you were never a candidate that had any chance of being lynch unfortunately.
He hasn't done a whole lot with that power from what I can see.
We don't have any logs or analysis from his exchanges.
He made a good defense post.
He questioned why WBG took him off his suspect list in this post. Pro-town move in my book. He welcomes critiques and had a good defense as I just linked.
He didn't support or squash hiro protagonist's tunneling of sandroba as seen in this post. This isn't a huge tell but this post feels town oriented my gut says.
He downplayed mason powers and was active in that discussion. He did claim mason so this could easily be why he blabbed so.
He said BM is "not a difficult read" - he did vote for him yesterday which suggests he has a read.
We have another in depth defense post from him. Seems geniuinely POed town. Good mafia acting if he's red.
Another post with value here. He isn't making hard stands but this is good analysis.
Went inactive for like 3 days the day after he tunneled Protact. Mafia points here.
He didn't want to waste a town lynch yesterday. Pro town points.
He pointed out that no other players had messaged Mattchew. An astute observation. Pro town points for actually seeming to have a brain when he wants to. Could still be mafia in this point but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because I didn't notice this.

All in all? He could possibly be mafia with good defense posts. But I think it is more likely he is town with good defense posts despite his recent inactivity. Gut read here but those posts are very important. He should be on our radar despite me thinking he is like 60-65% town. His inactivity makes him a perfect and easy target for your finger point. You get no points for picking him out and doing no analysis of your own.

I haven't slept yet so I am just going to give gut reads on the rest as I have again proved I am more pro-town than your sorry mafia ass is capable of.

bumatlarge - voted for Macpo's death Day 2. Not early enough to get him real town cred. off the top of my head I don't think he has been especially pro-town but I haven't looked through his entire filter. Maybe you should! Voted for Protact on day 1 - MAJOR town points here. If you read my analysis of the day 1 votes this should lead you to believe this as well but I don't think you did and you lazily picked him. Went for jackal day 2 before jackal's blueness was for sure, null read here. He wants you dead - could be scum vote hiding to gain my sympathies though. Null read.

glurio - replacement player for d3 iirc. super lurker. mason. masoned me. did nothing pro-town when he masoned me. i urged him to talk in thread to clear his name. he has not. very suspect possible mafia. easy pick again for you as he lurks.

jitsu and nisani - pretty low profile town i don't have a gut feeling on them and you don't feel strongly to put them in your top 3 so i'm not gonna give them any analysis. you show me you have something on these guys.

On January 22 2012 22:57 supersoft wrote:

Show nested quote +

dude you're terribly overestimating yourself. I am town and you have no good case. Noone is listening to you - not because they're all scum - but rather because your case is bad. But I want to thank you at this point. Your effort is probably what keeps me alive in this game. Scum won't shoot me because then you actually might find one of them and tunnel him endlessly.

I am not overestimating myself. I did make a good call on you. I might have recalled my vote if you ever made a decent defense. You continue to fail at doing so and doing anything else that is town aligned. You continue to survive either A) because you are scum, or B) because you have friends in high places. You don't get any green points because town hasn't taken up my banner and stuck it up your ass. I have not tunneled you. I have gone after multiple people who I think are red including kingjames, bc, bm, sandroba, foolishness, etc. I have shown to be willing to go for one of them over you. You are mischaracterizing my persistence in your being red as tunneling when it is not.

You still need to die supersoft. You and your mafia buddy BC both need to die but he goes first.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 15:57 GMT

#3573

If you germans can, and are willing to put in the effort, I'd appreciate it if you all translate to cross check for any inconsistencies and help determine your alignment. If you want to be shown as town this is a great opportunity.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 16:07 GMT

#3576

BC either you or BM are likely to die today. I need not remind you you are pushing for the death of BM, the other elected official. Why don't you give us the name of at least one bodyguard if you think that cwave is lying? If you have a scumread on either of your bg's you should most definitely come forward now. Preserve your most town looking bodyguard to keep you safe and expose one if you think he is not one of the town.

I don't know how you could see that Cwave is lying from his post at all. Jackal suggests them being a dead as a possibility, but no players have flipped bg at all so this doesn't discount Cwave one bit. Bodyguards DO flip bodyguard in addition to their alignment and any other roles they may be.

Either you did point out a bg as possible scum as Cwave claims and you have no reason not to bring this name to light, or he is in fact lying. In which case you need to come up with some better logic to discredit him.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 16:12 GMT

#3577

Toadesstern I now know your email as well as everyone else in the game. Emails fucking translate regardless of language why is this a reason for you not wanting to translate it? Don't be lazy and don't be scummy. Translate it. Or at least summarize it. You are looking more and more red.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 16:34 GMT

#3581

Jitsu we are most likely going to kill one of our elected officials today anyways. Moreover Cwave claims BC declared one of his bg's as possible mafia and you confirm this fact. If he thinks this bodyguard is possible mafia he should want him dead and should give up is name. This is strong logic, this is not bluehunting. This is scumhunting. Don't be confused.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 16:52 GMT

#3585

Until supersoft posts real analysis or comments on BM/BC he should be on read but no response lists right now. He's not making any town sense or exhibiting pro-town behavior and his decision not to at this point cannot be ignored. He's looking more and more like a smokescreen for mafia.

BUT supersoft I'm all for people talking to you if you are talking about important town issues and not instead going after people pretty much irrelevant to current town agenda. We can give even more talk about your candidates if you talk about the major candidates.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 17:13 GMT

#3590

I appreciate the criticism hiro, it is noted and I hope I am less of this going forward. If my attitude is really clouding my analysis and scaring town at this point that is a major problem.

I would like to know more about our diverging reads though, please tell me more. You are DT, your word carries more weight than many of our unconfirmed roles out there, and certainly more than a lurker or otherwise suspicious player.

@Jitsu your post confuses me even more now. Hold on a sec we need to know why we are misreading Cwave's post:

I'm going to removed the acronyms and replace them with the names of the players and roles they are referring to. They are very similar and may cause confusion to show how we could have misinterpreted his post. I'll also correct a small typo just because I'm a little bit ocd like that

On January 22 2012 20:07 Cwave wrote:
Got mason'd by Jitsu last day and i can confirm that (Bill Murray) at least provided the same two names as (bodyguard)s to us. With that, we also saw (BloodyC0bbler) list one of the bodyguards as scum that (Bill Murray) provided us. Why would a mayor list one of his bodyguards as scum?

He is now saying BM did not give out fake names. You are now disagreeing with him but saying that your posts concur. This makes no sense.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 17:35 GMT

#3594

You are right the not giving out fake names thing is a good point. It is possible he doesn't trust you both and thus gave you both false names. I was correct on the second part of your statement (BC could be lying about having pinned a bg as scum) but I whiffed on the first part. There was no misunderstanding, I just failed to realize this possibility.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 22 2012 17:46 GMT

#3596

Yes it is weird Toad and you provide good analysis. I'm looking forward to a response.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 23 2012 02:04 GMT

#3694

supersoft more logs with toadesstern like you promised would be great. I see Nisani dismissing all of my claims and analysis with nothing but a "they are too crazy to be true." Please give analysis to disprove my theories. I'm all ears. For now you are dismissing stuff without discussion and making yourself look less town.

on the continued push for a BM lynch. You guys all know my statements but although Bill has acted like an idiot and needs to die as he is useless and a distraction if he is Mad Hatter somehow after all. If he is mafia we should kill him. If he is Mad Hatter we should still kill him because he is bad for town atmosphere, but we should wait one day, two at the most to kill him. He may be an idiot and bad for town atmosphere but he may still have good reads. Bills meta actually confirms his bad for town atmosphere meta. This is one of the only good revelations that came out of yesterday. He isn't a danger to us anyways. He has no sway with town and I don't see him ever getting any. The risk/reward scenario here I think is not as tasty looking as our other candidates that I have presented.

I'm pleased to see rgTheSchworz is following why supersoft is scummy and he joins a growing list of people who are suspicious of him. I have yet to see analysis past the occam's razor hypothesis that several have presented in bc's defense and I still want him to be the one you guys consider for death today.

I want to continue to point out the shady behavior of the people I have listed as likely scum that has continued throughout the day:

BC - has campaigned for BM's death. That is fine considering the circumstances. Does not build his own case, relies on the deceased Protactinium. Has never provided valid analysis of is cronies (ss and fool). He asserts that I am dumb but does not attack my logic. He has not posted any real analysis today.
supersoft - has continued to solidify his shady nature. has presented random lynch candidates. shows little direction and does not concern himself with major town issues for the most part.
Foolishness - has made a grand total of two posts today. He has made his short vote post and attacked my character. Nothing else pro town. This goes against an established meta of being a quality, hard-working town.

I have established clear links between these players and ALL of them are acting dodgy and not answering the reasonable doubts I present against all of them. Is it possible that one of them is lazy town and doesn't bother to see the merit some of my posts have raised? Yes. Is it possible anymore than one of them acts so glaringly un-town in regards to my accusations? No it is extremely unlikely all three are acting this dodge unless they are mafia.

Their inaction is speaking in regards to their brethren is speaking just as loud as many of their actual scummy actions have this game people. Please follow me on this. I love the way town is questioning themselves and making deductions right now. The analysis on hiro has been excellent and something we don't want to lose sight of either. But today we make our move. We go after the mafia kingpin BloodyC0bbler.

Please join me.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 23 2012 02:06 GMT

#3695

need I also point out BC has not gone to his chat logs as a defense? that is one of the strongest bargaining chips he has but he has not emphasized them at all. He has let other people make those assertions for him. If you are using this as a reason to hold you back from voting for him please think: "Isn't it shady he isn't putting more focus on those logs? Shouldn't he be reinforcing and bolstering those assumptions that other town have made?"

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 23 2012 02:10 GMT

#3696

Guys even if you want to kill BM we can still do that but we need to at least put pressure on BC with our votes. Bandwagoning a BM lynch right now is doing us NO GOOD AT ALL.

BM is winning the lynch vote in a runaway here for the second day in a row. He is at something like 11 or 12 votes to BC's 3 and a few other random votes.

I see a lot of pro-town attitudes in here and they are great, I'm glad to see it, it is helping my reads and others reads a ton. But think about how we are applying pressure here. We are grossly underutilizing this portion of the power we have as town. We have 25 hours left in day. Plenty of time to rectify this.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 23 2012 02:36 GMT

#3702

Toadesttern I'm really worried about that but I'm fine with it provided you are going to post it and it is in English. I don't want to have you dead and have to rely on translations of supersoft's german bs. I would really appreciate a translation from anyone right now. I feel like I've put more than enough effort into the thread to warrant this reciprocation and gesture of trust. I'm putting all I can into this game and I'd really like to see more people going above and beyond instead of just skirting by. Not that I am accusing everyone of being complete slackers because I believe we have the best town atmosphere we have had in a while, I would just love to cross more people off my possible mafia list and put them on my 99% town list.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 23 2012 02:40 GMT

#3704

And Toad you need to keep in mind what is optimal town play from our perspective. You aren't thinking like you are in my shoes.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 23 2012 03:43 GMT

#3707

this is not the first time I have been accused of tunneling why does this keep coming up

I have provided analysis on more players in this game than anyone. I've has more guts than anyone else in making logical arguments for the existence of multiple other mafia other than you. It should be obvious by now that I have been suspicious of you as mafia for some time now. Indeed if it was practical or I thought it was the right play yesterday I would have come at you. I was diametrically opposed to you all of the last day. Yet I did not tunnel you. I did not question you. I did not push for your lynch.

I set aside that suspicion and pushed for a handful of other lynches and was receptive to your ideas. But just because I am pushing you for a lynch now does not mean I am tunneling you. I have a bead and many other reads on a lot of other players and I have pointed out other potential mafia. I still advocate a lynch of BM, I just believe that we have a better play available today.

tunnel-vision is not considering anything or anyone outside of you. I am doing quite the opposite of that yet multiple people have made this fallback attack on me. i'd urge town that want productive conversation to consider the actual definition of the term and not throw this bs at me.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 23 2012 06:37 GMT

#3719

I'm here. My sleep schedule is currently fucked. Bounce away. You already know where I stand on BC.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 23 2012 22:46 GMT

#3891

certainly some interesting developments while I've been gone. I'm currently on p. 189 will catch up after dinner and give my thoughts.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 00:49 GMT

#3945

I'm reading a lot of confusion in this thread. (still reading btw)

I'm unvoting my double lynch. I only voted for it because I wanted to go with my plan and that doesn't look like a plausible twist atm. More coming soon. Page 191 now.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 01:23 GMT

#3950

On January 24 2012 07:14 BrownBear wrote:
I should clarify. BM has outed me as a "bodyguard", and in the interest of not lying to town and hopefully cutting a little bit of the craziness out of this mess BM's created, I've decided to tell the truth - I am in fact a BG. I was hesitant at first for obvious reasons, but this is going to get talked to death over the course of the day and waste valuable time, and I just want what I can control to be cleared up, so I'm not "guilty by association" if BM happens to flip red.

That is all.

I thought bodyguards didn't know they were bodyguards. The OP says: "The town will not know who is selected as bodyguards, but the elected roles will." Bodyguard = town. Does not know he is bodyguard.

Am I wrong about this?

On January 24 2012 07:29 Slardar wrote:

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That is exactly the road I was going to go down, since L is the "best scum", have to get inside his mind and put it hypothetically down on paper. More or less agree with this 100%, I was in compliance with anti-OpZ since Sheth posted his ideas, but he got killed the following day so I layed off and he posted a good defense. I think I've been pretty vocal about the BC thing since the beginning of this day.

Again with BC vs BM , if everyone is convinced to wipe both off the face of the planet, it will be much easier to take out BC first, since if he's scum, and BM isn't scum and dies today, they will have nearly 50% of the votes (21 vs 9) which will make it a lot more difficult to lynch him. BM on the other hand, everyone wants him to die so I don't see how that would be an issue the following day.

You make a good point BC is dangerous to keep around as mayor as long as he continues to act so suspiciously. But your math is wrong it would be 21 to 8 mafia votes.

On January 24 2012 08:25 Cyber_Cheese wrote:

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Note to self, remember this post.
It's where I started doubting Cwave and p4NDemik are town.
BC's getting a lot of flak, and realisitically, he seems unlikely to be scum, quadruply so if/when BM flips scum.
Rather than push other scummier looking people, those two push someone who has already had tons of time in the spotlight.

Just because he's in the spotlight a lot (he is in all his games to my knowledge) doesn't mean my case is any less valid. Please don't group my case along with cwave's. He masoned me and he may be very easily swayed by my word but his support of my case is very poor, I'll even admit that. My case remains strong.

Still reading, at page 196 now

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 01:49 GMT

#3956

One lesson we should all take as town from this game - never elect BM for any form of office. christ man. Regardless of your alignment you were the biggest mistake town made thus far this game.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 02:10 GMT

#3959

On January 24 2012 10:55 VisceraEyes wrote:

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QFT

p4N what are your reads on WBG and JayJay?

I'll do some analysis when night comes I'm a bit worn out today. Done lots of writing and honestly I don't have the energy to write much more for the moment. I just want to sit back with popcorn for a second and wait for the inevitable flip as it appears BM isn't going to get out of his predicament any time soon.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 04:49 GMT

#4094

hahaha omg i just saw the kill list this is hilarious and awesome

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 05:03 GMT

#4100

Foolishness you have a lot more explaining and scumhunting to do to get of the fucking hook. I'm very angry at you.

Town, I'm angry for you not pushing him farther than this:

On January 24 2012 12:12 Foolishness wrote:

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If you look through my posts you'll see that I wanted to kill BM from very early in the game (maybe even as early as end of day 1 I may have said that).

There comes a time with a red-looking dirtbag has to meet his maker. Foolishness your time is nigh. Step up and give me more defense or die tomorrow.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 05:04 GMT

#4102

BC only chats in irc with his fellow scum buddies like Foolishness.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 05:07 GMT

#4109

Would you guys stop being pussies and push him instead of letting him off the hook after he posts a grand total of two lines?

I'm being melodramatic I know and I'm a bit caught up in the fact that 3 mafia just died but I haven't even voted for him to be hung yet. FFS guys. A whole game's worth of analysis and STICKING TO MY LYNCH vote of Bill two nights ago gets my eye rolls and disrespect?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 05:09 GMT

#4111

Sorry OpZ I haven't read your posts yet I am still running through the pages atm. Don't jump on me yet.

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 05:53 GMT

#4210

wow i was so wrong on most of my conclusions. at least i presented myself as town and voted for a good mayor candidate i suppose. gg guys

damn supersoft i wish you would not have lurked so hard. i wasted so much time because you lurked like mafia then didn't defend yourself at all T-T

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 05:58 GMT

#4222

On January 24 2012 14:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

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You had a bad case. There wasn't much to defend -_-

Yeah but from the start I would have laid off if he acted town at all or defended my initial bad case. His lack of doing anything made me think he was mafia more and more until I had myself convinced and couldn't stop pushing it.

I make a bad case do more to point it out to me right? Is it proper blue play to just ignore?

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 06:03 GMT

#4233

On January 24 2012 14:49 ~OpZ~ wrote:

Show nested quote +

And P4N.

hahahaha no kidding. I put so much effort into all that night night 2 analysis and mafia sat back, lurked, and got so drunk they got mod-killed. Now if I ever get mafia in the future I have to live up to this ... fml

edit: or town for that matter ... else I might get palmared

p4NDemik

United States13896 Posts

January 24 2012 06:09 GMT

#4252

On January 24 2012 15:04 Bill Murray wrote:

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you got me lynched a day late and a dollar short :o

was no one suspicious of you before that? i need to reread that sequence of events. i guess even if i sucked in my conclusions i was at least good for the atmosphere?