EPTTL Mafia L
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
On December 16 2011 04:50 bumatlarge wrote: Speaking of L, I just played a LoL game with him and he got very mad when I took kills as janna. Suport needs that gold yo. Lol, I do the same thing. :p | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On August 12 2011 12:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote: /in | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 06 2012 11:35 Jackal58 wrote: He added us. But thanks. That was a gracious action on your part. If I roll scum I'll kill you last. If I roll scum, I'll make you mayor. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 13 2012 13:45 Cyber_Cheese wrote: Something seems wrong... I didn't autoscum :O Speaking of auto-scum ##Vote MrWiggles Thanks for voting me, Cyber. I'll need every one I can get, to become mayor! | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Elected roles gain detection immunity. This makes it worse for us if mafia get into one of these roles, as we have no way to DT check them. It also means that the GF probably won't run for office, or if he does, he'll drop out early. Between the mayor and the sheriff, the sheriff is the one who actually has power past day 1. So, one thing we can do, is vote in a player that we see as both a strong townie, and as being town in this game, into the mayor role solely for the purposes of protection. This applies to the sheriff too, but there's more responsibility on them as the game goes on due to the jailkeeper mechanic. Also something to note, is that we can't trust vig claims, due to the possibility of mafia jack's, who would be able to shoot and not affect what KP would show up that night coming from the mafia. We should also maybe talk about when to use our double lynches, but I don't think it's a huge deal until when the time comes that we might actually want to use them. We just need to be careful not to waste them. Vote me into office, please. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 13 2012 14:56 Protactinium wrote: I'm running for mayor on the platform of lynching Ciryandor. There's no way you seriously think Mr. Wiggles has the best campaign. My campaign is to not make a campaign post, because they're all the same (except for foolishness' so far), and they're all useless. Generic Mayoral Campagin I think I am the best candidate to be voted into office, these are my credentials:
VOTE FOR ME!!!!! I think this adequately describes nearly every mayoral post we will see in this game. So, Foolishness, why do you think that Bill Murray is easier to read than any other player in the game? What games has he played, where he's shown his worth as a townie? I've only played with him twice, and they weren't exactly demonstrative of awesome play, but I don't think he was trying that hard. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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+ Show Spoiler + So don't worry, Foolishness! | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 13 2012 15:25 Foolishness wrote: The incarcerate ability seems like more of an asset to the mafia than the town (it's almost like a roleblocker). The extra votes will help mafia if it gets down near lylo. With 10 mafia I think it's safe to say we got some blue power on our side (exactly what or how is unknown, but it's there). I think it's better to halt the mafia from getting additional benefits then protecting a potentially good player. As you said a good town player is only "potentially" good. Even the best players have off games for whatever reasons. A mafia team won't "potentially" use those abilities correctly, they will. The sheriff is a jailkeeper, which can be used very well for the town if put into the right hands, either offensively or defensively. Why do you think it's better for scum? I'm checking if the mayor/sheriff can be roleblocked right now, but if they can't then that means that we would have an assured protection in the form of the sheriff, which is extremely powerful for town. Also, I didn't notice the mayor gets a triple vote, disregard what I said about the mayor not being that good besides protection for a good player. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 13 2012 15:36 Mr. Wiggles wrote: The sheriff is a jailkeeper, which can be used very well for the town if put into the right hands, either offensively or defensively. Why do you think it's better for scum? I'm checking if the mayor/sheriff can be roleblocked right now, but if they can't then that means that we would have an assured protection in the form of the sheriff, which is extremely powerful for town. Also, I didn't notice the mayor gets a triple vote, disregard what I said about the mayor not being that good besides protection for a good player. They can't be roleblocked, I just got confirmation. Going to bed now, see you guys tomorrow. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 13 2012 15:44 Foolishness wrote: How can the town effectively use the power? The only thing I can see it being used for is as a medic, but it's a bit worthless on nearly any blue role. Incarcerating a mafia is only going to reduce KP if the planets are aligned (i.e. there are the right number of mafia alive) or there's the lucky chance you get one of the mafia power roles (which we don't even know exist). The power is more useful late game (if it even gets to that point) but only for protecting a townie. And considering we don't have free PMing it's even more worthless as it'd be much better for coordinating behind the scenes. It's an unblockable medic, why wouldn't town be able to use it? You also didn't actually answer my question. I'm not sure why we're arguing, though, as the whole point is to get the role into town hands, and to keep it away from mafia. Whether or not it's better for scum than town, we still don't want them to have it. Hopefully you can agree to that. | ||
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Potential Lynch Candidates: Palmar is easy to read as scum, so we should have a decent idea of his alignment by the end of the day, based on his posting and attitude. Of the other mayoral candidates, I don't likes bumatlarge's mayoral post, which is less about why he should be mayor, or how we should play, and more about a list of advice for blues. I get the feeling that he's actually going to drop out of the election before the end of day 1. I also don't like Cyber's posting in general, but I'd probably need to elaborate, and I can't do that right now. Who I'm voting for: The point of the no-campaign campaign, is that you can't hold anyone to anything they say as part of a mayoral campaign. The only promise a mayor can really make and keep, is who they're going to lynch. However, by the time they can actually prove that they'll hold their promise, they're already mayor, and therefore already have the power to do whatever they want. So, my plan is to just play the game, with a secondary focus on the mayoral election. My vote will go on the person who I think is actually playing the game, and who I think is town. I'm not going to vote for the person who made the most promises he can't be held accountable for until he's actually the mayor, or whoever put the most bold green text and pictures in their campaign, and neither should you. Right now, it's likely to go on BC, depending on how he continues to post, and if I like what I see and get a town vibe from him. I'm not at that point yet, however. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 14 2012 09:08 kingjames01 wrote: [/red]Alright, I've been at work all day and it's taken me quite a while to catch up in the reading. I'm going to reiterate, that I support the Bodyguards being made public. There was a point raised earlier which suggested that if this plan were carried through, the elected officials would be more vulnerable. I don't think that is the case. I have already stated my reasoning but here is the idea again. If at least one of the Bodyguards is Town, then they player has to die before our Mayor and/or Sheriff are vulnerable. If both Bodyguards die, everyone will be on guard and can then start to protect the elected officials. If at most one dies, then the Mayor and/or Sheriff are still safe. Why? Because the mafia will have to trade at least one of their own to kill the Mayor and/or Sheriff. Next, I think the Mass Mason Roleclaim is a terrible plan. The mafia know the roles of 10 players out of 50, namely, their own players. If all of the Masons claim, then they know the roles of more players in the game. If they can, they will target our powerful Blue roles, like Town Jack, Medic, Detective. Why are you guys okay with helping them to narrow down their targets? Aren't these ideas contradictory? You say that you support the names of the BG's being made public, but in the same post, say that you don't support a mass mason claim, while only citing the reason that it narrows the pool for mafia to shoot into when blue sniping. BG's are pulled from VTs and mafia if they choose to substitute them, so by making them public, you reduce the pool of non-VTs, insofar as mafia blue-sniping is concerned. How are these two ideas compatible? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Right now, I'm leaning town on you. I've seen you manipulate townies before in PM as scum, and in light of that, your mason claim makes it seem like you're more likely to be town. I don't see a benefit for a scum BC to claim mason, when it puts a lot of pressure and suspicion on himself, when instead he can just win the election and use his secret mason role to manipulate townies. Instead, you're going to be forced to pretty much claim your target every day, and anyone you talk to is instantly going to be more on guard after all the discussion today. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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@Bum: I got the feeling from Cyber_Cheese that he just wanted to stir shit up all day long. A lot of his posts look to me like they're asking questions or making statements that someone could easily grab on to and start a pointless argument. Not generally conducive to a good town atmosphere. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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And don't call yourself confirmed. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Right now, people are finally talking somewhat about who they want the mayor to be, but they're also disregarding that we have two open slots to fill. I have a town read on WBG, and I'd like to see him in one of the slots, so that's where my vote's going for now. It's possible I change it later, though, but people (including myself) really need to start voting. ##Vote: WBG I'm still trying to sift through the BC/Incog/Foolishness chaos, and I'll let you know about my thoughts on that later, depending on how I actually form them. Right now, it seems like GGQ is scum, and I'm also getting scum-vibes from Kingjames. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 15 2012 06:45 Foolishness wrote: Incog and I are causing chaos by being part of the few people who provided some analysis against other players? o.O I never said you were causing chaos? Weird way to misinterpret that. BC managed to cause a lot of chaos directly with his claim and subsequent follow-up. For you and Incog though, the chaos more comes through everyone else spamming and screaming about things that makes it really hard to read when just going through the thread. So, I'm going to go back through all your filters, and try to figure out if I can make any firm decision on what I think of you. Right now it looks like a three way love triangle with a more convoluted plot than a soap opera, and I hope to be able to sort it out in my head after I'm done. On January 15 2012 07:02 Jitsu wrote: Wasn't WBG pretty anti-Palmar in anyway and wanted him dead? Than as Palmar starts posting, the votes for WBG blow up. 10 foot pole indeed. Who said anything about making WBG the mayor, and thus being able to decide the lynch? I am surprised at how quickly other people came out of the woodwork to help vote for him, though. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles
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That leaves BM? -_- | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 15 2012 18:15 Cyber_Cheese wrote: No discussion :/ Yo, VE, Protractinium, Adam4167, Kitaman27, MrWiggles and EchelonTee What are your thoughts on: Palmars lynch/WBG, is WBG scummy? Palmars lynch/BC choosing him, did you agree with this? BM/BC being the elected pair? Who would you look into lynching next and why? Double Lynch tomorrow? Other people are encouraged to answer this too. My stances WBG deserves scrutiny, but at worst is a null read to me I feel like BC didn't really explain his choice of lynch in the lead up, and choosing Palmar feels random and underly discussed. I'm relatively fine with the elections. Those were people I both wanted in. On double lynching, I feel like earlier on would be better, if we use them well, we can shrink mafia KP faster. Of course, there is some risk, but we also gain more information on where people stand. Next lynch. An election candidate for sure. Previously I had assumed MrWiggles and Kitaman were sleeping or something, but they really didn't seem to have much impact going into the elections. I feel like they would be better options to lynch than VE or Risk.Nuke. I would still support lynching Sandroba. I still don't think WBG is scummy, as of this moment. I don't see how him pushing for Palmar would make him scummy. I was somewhat null on Palmar, as while he was acting similarly to how he does as scum, there was something a little off about it, but I wasn't sure if it was because he was being apathetic as town, or trying to change his scum play slightly. I don't like that BC didn't mention who he would actually pick for the lynch, before he picked them. He mentioned that he thought palmar was scummy in some of his posts, along with foolishness and incog, but he didn't actually tell us that that was who he was lynching until it was time for the lynch. So, we lost a lot of discussion about the lynch, which probably would have generated far more information than talking about masons. BC's choice is consistent with what he was saying in the thread, but the fact that he wasn't transparent about it bothers me. I had a town read on BM, much more so than either protact or BC, so I'm fine with him in office; hopefully he puts reputation as being a decent scumhunter to use and uses the position to influence the town. I would rather have not had BC in office, but after protact decided to switch his lynch target and not explain why, I didn't really want him in there as much as I did, either. I would look into GGQ or BB, but both of those are probably better suited for vigs to shoot. I'll decide who I want to lynch Day 2. I think depending on the discussion and cases put forward on day 2, it might be worth using the double lynch. Still, this is variable and dependent on what happens on day 2. Otherwise, we should probably wait another day to use them, or at least until we actually have more than two strong targets for the lynch. Remember that double lynches are enacted the day after we vote for them. Also, as a side note, I'm dissatisfied with all of BC/Foolishness/Protact right now. I've asked things of all of them (as have others), and for the most part have been ignored. That means they're either not reading the thread, or don't care about being transparent and appearing town-like. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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Mr. Wiggles' Mason Circle Plan ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9mJtN.png) A Visual Representation Hey, because people all decided to claim mason for some reason, what do we think about making a mason circle? Let's say we have: Mason A Mason B Mason C Mason D Mason E Who I will refer to solely by letter from now on. The circle would work like this: A masons with B, B masons with C, C masons with D, D masons with E, and then E could either mason with A, or another player. This effectively creates a two way line of communication with all our masons. In other words, it creates a pseudo-mason circle. This will allow our claimed masons to talk to each other, as a group, thus increasing their effectiveness. As well, this allows the same people to talk to each other day after day, simply by switching the order of the masoning. Additionally, this solves the problem of either ignoring masons, or worrying about mafia influence through talking to masons. With this plan, each mason should be passing on each message they receive, so all information will be disseminated in the chain, and it increases the likelihood of catching any scum mason who has claimed. This plan relies chiefly, that all claimed masons will be active and diligent in passing on their PMs. If any mason is found to be active in thread, but not passing on their PMs, or having a sharp drop in activity and thus not allowing the circle to function, then we should consider them for a vig shot or lynch. Next, there is the problem of a scum mason editing the messages he receives in order to sow confusion. First, we must agree that all masons will simply copy+paste any message they receive. Next, we have several options depending on what kind of circle we use. If we have all masons mason each other, with no extra people, then we have a circle. So, each mason will simply pass his message along, with any additional text, in the same direction that his PM has been going. If he wants to respond directly to the person who PMed him, then he can send the PM in both directions. How this will work, is that everyone will always pass on each message they receive, until it reaches them again, at which time, they will compare the PM to their original and check for differences. (This program will help: http://www.sourcegear.com/diffmerge/ ) If they find any differences, then they will say so in the thread, and each mason will post their respective PM. Then, we search for the origin of the discrepancy. Scum will be hesitant to actually fake a discrepancy with their original PM, as it will essentially be trading one-for-one. Also, town has NO reason to doctor PMs they send out in the mason circle. If we have all masons mason each other, but then add in an extra person to the circle, so that it's a line with two ends, we will have to use a different method to check for sinister editing. The first is that we post all PMs publicly in the thread. This reduces the effectiveness of the circle, but is the safest method for checking that all PMs were sent in their original form and remained intact. The other method, is for the two people at each end of the line to ask questions about certain PMs. It will be unlikely that both of them are scum, and if they are, they should only remain at the end of the line for one day. If they fake editing and we kill a couple of town masons, then we'll just cull the entire circle, as again, town has NO reason to doctor PMs they send out in the mason circle, so it must mean there are multiple mafia in the circle, or the extra people added to the circle were mafia. In this form of a line, each person will either send a PM in one direction if they don't add anything to it, or in both directions if the do. This again ensures that all players in the circle receive all PMs. So, that's my plan for salvaging all the mason claims and creating a powerful tool for the town. We have two ways we can implement this. Either we go with a line, which is slightly more effective, as it allows an extra person into the circle, or we go with a circle, which is much safer. In my opinion, using the circle method is the better choice, for while the circle will be smaller, it lets us check much more easily for mafia influence, and the dissemination of information should proceed much more smoothly. This is open for discussion though. What do people think? | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 16 2012 07:43 supersoft wrote: "This will allow our claimed masons to talk to each other, as a group, thus increasing their effectiveness. " false assumption, plan is therefor useless. Sorry. This plan makes masons completely useles... (Moreover the execution - even if this makes sense - is nearly impossible) How so? This is a mason circle that can talk to each other for longer than one day, as compared to random masons being able to talk to one player for one day, and never after that. Have you ever played in PM games, and do you know the effectiveness of a mason circle? The point is to bounce ideas off of each other, and create analysis. By talking continuously in PM, the masons should be able to get good reads on each other as well, thus strengthening the power of the circle once they root out any potential scum. Only dumb scum will actually be able to be caught by a town mason in this game by talking to them for one day (especially when they can just ignore the mason and use BC as an excuse), whereas this plan allows us to create a town circle to create analysis. Right now, your post is completely worthless, as it provides zero reasoning for anything you said. Try harder. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 16 2012 07:55 supersoft wrote: pff your plan won't happen. I don't have to try harder. What the hell are you thinking? Do you think it's effective if BC discusses his reads with jitsu? And if ~OpZ~ discusses with BC, or BC with ~OpZ~ or one of those with Sandoba (someone said he claimed?)? If BC discusses with Jitsu for example, then he should be able to determine if he is town or scum after a while, if BC is town. That then gives him an outlet to share sensitive information, that he doesn't necessarily want to post in thread, but would like to be published if he dies, such as the names of his BGs or his scum reads, or allows him to determine one of the members of the mafia. A town circle is one of the most powerful tools in the game. It's one of the most dangerous things for mafia, because it allows town to discuss and form analysis free from the influence of mafia, and it creates an information disadvantage for the mafia, as compared to the town. Scum no longer have perfect information, and they don't see everything that's happening. This relies on the effort of the town masons, however, to actually put the effort into the game to make this work. If they're not willing to, though, then I'm not even sure why they're playing. What useful thing do you think that BC will do with his mason power otherwise? He himself has said that he would rather that masons either don't use their powers, or that everyone else just ignores PMs. How is that useful for the town? So yes, you do have to try harder, because your reasons are bad, and you still haven't explained them. Good job dodging me. Other benefits of the plan: This also serves to confirm that all claimed masons really are masons, as they will be forced to mason with another mason, and pass along PMs. The only way this won't happen, is if two or more of the claimed masons are scum, but then there should be a breakdown somewhere, as masoning positions are changed each day, and I'm fine trading two masons for two scum, or whatever it would turn out to be. It creates a target rich pool for medics. Mafia don't want a town circle to be established, so they will either be forced to shoot into the pool of masons, or allow one to form. If we threaten medic protection into the circle, then we can WIFOM the mafia to death. Edit before posting: On January 16 2012 08:13 Nisani201 wrote: What is the point of a mason circle? No one in it would be confirmed, so it seems anti town for a certain group of people to be passing around messages while everyone else is left in the dark. What is there to talk about anyways? What do you mean what is there to talk about? It creates an environment where it is very easy to analyze and plan against the mafia. No players in the circle are initially confirmed, but after talking to each other for any length of time, they should be able to get a read on each other. Anyone not putting the proper effort into the circle, or trying to stop it's working from within can be fingered as scum. There's no reason for a town mason in the circle to try to hurt the circle. One of the arguments against the masons in this game that I saw, is that they can only talk to someone for one day, so that makes them much weaker than normal, and that they cannot actually create circles, which neuters their ability. This plan circumvents both of those weaknesses. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 16 2012 08:36 Nisani201 wrote: The problem is that it's not a town circle. Once a single mafia gets in the circle, it becomes anti-town, because the entire mafia will have information that certain townies will not. That doesn't matter. It does not become anti-town if a mafia enters the circle. The masons shouldn't trust each other to begin with, but it will very hard for any mafia to actually keep up a facade of being pro-town and contributory for long. This means the other masons in the circle will be able to sniff out and reveal any scum among them. This also forces all claimed masons to actually play the game and contribute, as they will be forced to perform in the mason circle. Have you ever played in a game with PMs or a mason circle? http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Neighbor Read that. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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On January 16 2012 08:47 wherebugsgo wrote: it does if it's someone like BC or L. If I were scum in this game I would love your plan. I would infiltrate the fuck out of that circle and seed whatever bs I could come up with. The thing is, we know who's in the circle, and so do scum. If the masons don't start dying and there's no missing shots after a while, then that means there's a strong probability that there's scum in the circle, and a strong player at that, like BC or ~OpZ~, as mafia don't want to leave a circle of townies alive and talking to each other. BC is a good scum hunter, so he should be able to find any scum in the circle if he is town, or at least know that he can't trust them. If he doesn't produce any scum from the circle, calls them all town, and then none of the masons ever die while spreading bullshit in the thread, then what's the logical conclusion? This means that a scum BC can't use his PMs secretly to sow confusion. If he's scum, it contains his influence in PMs to the mason circle, and we know where that influence lies. Also, if you're worried about BC being scum and influencing the circle, then why do you say you think he's town, and why did you vote him in for mayor? Did your read change? Also, the only way for mafia to infiltrate the circle now, is to publicly claim mason. Mafia have already chosen their masons, so this also fucks over any plan they might have made to use them, as they either need to claim, which draws scrutiny to themselves, to infiltrate the circle, or they need to just sit back and hope they already have someone in the circle, or just hope the circle doesn't accomplish anything major, which they can't really do, with strong players in the circle. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
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There is no difference between my plan, and a normal PM game or game with a mason circle in it, besides that the masons have to pass on communications. Would you not support masons in a circle discussing in another game where they started in a circle, because there might be scum in it? In fact, if there's a scum in the circle, all the better, because the town members should be able to sniff them out and get them lynched. | ||
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Also, BC should clarify if masons can continue to talk to their target during the night. No one has told us if they can, yet. | ||
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