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fuck well whatever, there was like 5 other people who we can also blame for that, right?Closed Casket Mafia - Page 3
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
fuck well whatever, there was like 5 other people who we can also blame for that, right? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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First let's get into why DT claiming is retarded and why fishball is better than that. This game has no flips, this means we can't confirm shit about his supposed DT claim, and by the time we actually realize something is amiss its too late and we have pissed away a minimum of two lynches believing him. I have explained it before and I am going to quote it right now for you all to read. On June 26 2011 08:21 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Do not play in trying to guess Ace's roles included int he game. I used that as a basis for an analysis in Toy Factory which resulted in me trusting Annul which contributed to the rape that occurred that game. I actually completely agree with how any sort of detective type role should be used this game. If you find a scum, push them using an analysis. Claiming DT will result in us killing you out of safety, a fake DT claim in a no flip scenario is simply way too deadly. In that sense any claim of DT will be met with swift and decisive death. We have no way of confirming anything said by a DT and it has the potential to royally fuck up the town. We need to stick to this no matter what. On a related note. Any type of detective role should stick to investigating less active individuals. I seriously doubt this will be an issue in this game due to the player base, but it is something worth stating. I am so disappointed with how XLII was basically thrown away by 1/5th if not more of the town lurking and it putting us in an impossible situation. It's another reason I am happy this game is small with known active players. Off the top of my head, if we somehow have few/no inactive players, I would recommend checking any player significantly influential in town decision, that means any vocal townie who is leading lynches. The important thing is that when you find a scum, do NOT role claim. Create analysis on that person, constantly push their guilt, but under no circumstances do you claim. From a mafia perspective killing you would then just draw people to your analysis, so its a double edged sword. You protect yourself and push a mafia by one simple act of pushing your suspects without claiming. As stated in this post, DT claiming is retarded, and from a lessor player I might consider making an exception based on lack of experience and confidence, but fishball obviously won't get that luxury. Claiming is so fucking INCREDIBLY bad. It straight up ruins his ability to analyze the lynch. Imagine if he just busted out an analysis on me. At that point he could observe who will defend me in a subtle way and try to divert the lynch, and he could EASILY do that for 30-40 hours before claiming and ensuring I was lynched if he felt it necessary. This would give invaluable information that he now conveniently can't get. This day has officially become a battle between fishball the "DT" and me, and we are going to get very little analytical information from this day of posts. Since we know fishball is not a dumbass, we know he clearly ignored what has been discussed and is known to be a much more valuable way to go about lynching a scum DT check. Now on why I tried to encourage a town policy of DT's NOT claiming. Quite simply we cannot confirm DT checks, and even if we could with a Coroner type role with fishball's plan, that would just serve to out one of the most powerful town aligned roles in the game to try to confirm a detective. This can bury the town in shit for days. In conclusion, claiming is painfully anti town and if he really was a DT he would realize that he couldn't be confirmed through a lynch of his suspect, and it would be more productive to pressure your check and draw inferences from it. You chose the shit path. Now let's get to your claim. You are an alignment detective, it is such an easily faked claim. You get townie or mafia, which means since you are scum you know exactly what everyone's alignment is. Nice with the BC check too, since he is an important player to try to get on your side and can easily flip a lynch. Understand that Fishball can literally never be wrong about his checks in this case. He calls your alignment and then has you killed as you fight his check. We never know if he told the truth or not, unless both fishball and a theoretical coroner role survive until the end of the game which isn't going to happen. As I have said countless times in thread, any plan that revolves around the unknown is stupid and bound to fail, even if it is role that is probable to exist, we can't know if it has/will die. To sum it up, an alignment detective is about as easy to fake as Veteran or Medic while being 30x more detrimental to town if gone unchecked, since his actions can literally change how entire days go in the game and we can't know if he is full of shit because there is never an actual flip. Now let's get fishy's actual case on me. Its a real hard one to dismiss, but I will seriously try my best. Fishball Wrote Night 1 was a bit trickier. My goal was to check the less obvious targets, those that are in the gray area, but you know that something doesn't add up. I had a few candidates: Palmar, ilovejonn, and RebirthOfLeGenD. At the end, I picked RoL based on a my observation of his posting, the overall voting pattern for Day 1, and the fact that he took off his vote from VisceraEyes and broke the promise that he would his change his vote back; A key factor that Day 0 resulted in a no-lynch. no u [spoiler] But seriously, this is bullshit. You are telling me that I was one of the people who was pushing VisceraEyes the hardest toward the end and then decided at the last second I didn't want to kill my team mate? This is a joke, and a bad, convoluted one at that. If I was really scum with Viscera I could simply have barely contributed to his case, or dismissed it entirely and voted to lynch LSB or Amber who both look like shit instead. But you are telling me that I aggressively attacked my own team mate, only to back off and not lynch him instead, which would make me look bad as fuck for forcing the town into a no lynch? Yeah, sorry. It would never happen, and sorry I broke my promise, it was honestly a fuck up from a team monobattles game, if you would like I can even link you to my game list where it happened. I don't mind! I am mSLeGenD.251 on SC2 NA. Have fun. The game went from about 11:30ish to 12:15. If any of you have played against me as mafia before, you know I play extremely meticulously and safe. I would have never fucked up like this as mafia by playing so recklessly and making myself so important for the Day 1 lynch. If I was mafia trying to save a scum buddy it was totally unnecessary and my actions for that day literally make zero sense in pushing Viscera so hard just to back off at the little while. I admit it was dumb of me to even try to change the lynch though, that was my only mistake, but that was seriously just because I thought Amber was a lot more scummy. Oh and lastly, I like your use of colors in your post, I remember all the games where BC did that and just wrote massive walls of text with pretty colors, its a nice little trick to get people to side with you, a cheap trick. I know BC caught onto it too, I am sure he wasn't as blinded as you hoped by your "Hey BC is town!" check. It's funny though, I F5ed the thread just in time last night, because I was just about to wrote up an analysis of how scummy LSB was, but clearly that is irrelevant now, since you just turned Day 2 into me fighting a bullshit DT claim. On that note, let's get rid of this lying scum. I want everyone to read both of what we have posted and realize what makes more sense. Look at Fishball. He claims he is an alignment DT who checked me and BC and got scum on me, he comes up with a half assed plan using a theoretical role that may or may not be alive or even in the game. Then uses a half baked analysis on me to push his DT check. Now look at how scummy every aspect of his plan is. An alignment DT is the most easily faked and most detrimental role to town as scum, that effect is amplified in this set up. The way he went about claiming was just stupid and doesn't provide any actual information since know everyone knows exactly what evidence fishball is supposedly working with, instead of thinking he just analyzed my behavior and applied pressure. So boys, lets be objective, reasonable, and smart and kill this lying scum. ##vote Fishball | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On June 30 2011 23:20 Fishball wrote: It doesn't matter what he claims, as in my eyes, whatever he claims would be a lie. It was rather fortunate for him that he actually said a Medic saved him last night. If he claims that he is a Veteran, than obviously one of us is lying (not like he isn't already). If I'm lying, there there will be no argument. But a Mafia Veteran? Good luck with that. Now, he claims that a Medic saved him. No, I don't need the Medic to come fourth to prove the claim if a Medic did save him, but there are a few questions everyone might want to ask themselves first. - RoL has not exactly shown the strongest Town-aligned play in this game, in fact, alot of his stuff falls into the grey area. The "oops, I missed my vote" move he pulled at the end raised eyebrows. Why would a Medic, among all players, would choose to protect him? - Caller has claimed Vigilante and shot GMarshal at the start (I'm still pondering this). deconduo has also claimed Vigilante. So if what RoL says is true, there has to a third Vigilante or similar type of role out there that has Night KP. What is the likelihood of this? - You combine the two variables up top; What is the likelihood that RoL's claim is true? - Furthermore, do I seem to be making up all this fuss just to paint RoL red? That's all I have to say. You know what, lets get serious. I think I have actually figured out exactly what happened and it makes perfect sense. I know I was floating somewhat in the gray area since I hadn't actually done a lot of legwork on day 1, and hell I don't even know what I was more surprised about, getting hit or getting protected. But I think I figured it out. Since you are scum and you are using my voting no lynch accident as the thing that made me look scummy, and by association made VisceraEyes look scummy, meaning you basically lined up a vig/lynch for the next cycle as well as getting me offed. But how could I explain that? Simple, VisceraEyes is the medic, who viewed me not killing him as being protown, and thus decided to protect me for not hammering him D1. He seemed really happy and eager to prove his townieness after being spared, and this is what I could come up with, to me its the only thing that makes sense to explain me surviving. Considering someone died last night though, I am unsure of where the extra KP came from, I first guess would be that caller lied and is a compulsive/multi hit role and just tried to kill me, perhaps even a third party. He said something about suspecting me earlier in the night. At the same time this would mean both me and scamp took a hit last night, which is odd. I would view the scamp hit as more likely a mafia hit trying to blue snipe. On the flip side I think this means I must have been hit by a third party. I think if I was caller and third party a good way of trying to play this game would be to try and kill the mafia off knowing that even if you hit a townie you are still helping your win conditions. This would also explain to me how caller is claiming to have multiple powers that we can't fully understand. This would also explain why he didn't give a fuck and just day 1'd Gmarshal, a generally very good town player who establishes himself really well in games as town which could be problematic later on if he called out caller on his trolly bullshit. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On July 01 2011 00:13 Amber[LighT] wrote: Actually we can confirm his checks. We can't confirm you though. #vote: RebirthofLegend Cool dude, how do you propose that we confirm his checks? You can't, go back to lurking scum. I don't care if I need allies right now, I am not going to pretend you and LSB still aren't on my radar for playing like shit. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On July 01 2011 00:13 Palmar wrote: There is a really good reason in this particular case for lynching RoL first. We can gamble on getting a ton of extra informaton, but only if you have faith in your Emperor. Listen my Icelandic twin, doing this is stupid. Read what I wrote above, this is a gamble that won't pan out which is why we so heavily discouraged DT claims and even provided the exact way a DT should go about his successful role checks. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On July 01 2011 00:20 Palmar wrote: So if it was me who claimed, you'd make an exception and just admit you're mafia, but since it's fishball you're going to fight? No, I mean make an exception to generally shitty DT play and ignoring obvious shit. Newer players tend to lack confidence and make there argument about the DT check. The better way is to abuse a DT check to milk information from the town. I am saying it was uncharacteristically bad play, which only a newb might get exemption from, I just worded it a bit funny. Please don't get caught up on semantics. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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BACK UNDER YER BRIDGE. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On July 01 2011 00:23 Fishball wrote: I don't have time to respond in detail to your other post yet, but ROFL at this. You made me laugh out loud at work, and my co-workers were looking at me funny ;/ The next 36 hours and 34 minutes are going to consist of you slowly becoming my bitch. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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The part that makes this even worse is that since all active medics will be protecting fishball, all the other townies who mafia might of avoided in fear of hitting a medic are now free kills. So you get double fucked. This means you and BC are going to die asap if you are town, and by the time you figure out fishball you are going to be fucked. I can almost guarantee you if you kill me, the next mafia hit will be a high profile townie, since all medics are going to be in an obvious location. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On July 01 2011 00:48 Caller wrote: RoL, stop dodging and claim. You're trying to pull a busdrove onto a dead guy as an insane DT. So let's take your hypothetical here. That I'm actually a 3rd party. Firstly this means through your inference that you "know" I'm not mafia. That's a scumslip. But let's say its not strong enough. If I were 3rd party, would I claim that I'm a killing role? Would I also say I have one bullet, and then proceed to shoot somebody else? Let's think about it: In a game of this size, reasonably there would be 1 or 2 Vigilantes at the most. Deconduo was a vigilante. I can confirm this because I was also a vigilante and he said things that only a vigilante in this game would know. Namely, we both only have one bullet, and some other things. So there are no more vigilantes in this game. I explained how your behavior could be explained by third party actions. What kind of fucking vigilante can hit on N0 and even more to the point, what type of Vigilante hits for the fuck of it? The best part about your little Deconduo claim is that it is impossible for him to confirm this since he has been mod killed. In the same breath you say that only you and Deconduo were vigilantes, then explain why the fuck I got hit? Yeah, thought so. GTFO. I shot GMarshal. There was only one other hit Night 0. It must have been the mafia hit, because I would've gotten my shot refunded otherwise (hint: I didn't.) By deduction, since a 3rd party role wants to kill people, the fact that nobody else died means that either I am the 3rd party or there is no 3rd party. You claimed that you were shot last night, and Scamp also died. Therefore, you say there were two hits. I did not shoot, because I only had one bullet that was used Night 0. If I was 3rd party, why would I endanger myself by shooting? I'd prove myself to either be 3rd party or a liar, both of which are lynchworthy. As I've already shown, either I am the 3rd party or there is no 3rd party as seen in night 0. There is no reason for me, if I were 3rd party, to trap myself in this situation, especially by doing what I did. If town wouldn't kill a 3rd party in that situation, mafia would. Basically, unless you're saying I'm violating the "play-to-win" rule, and saying I deserve to be modkilled, you're full of shit and also a liar. You didn't take a hit last night, and this was clearly planned ahead of time (as you'll see below). I'm now utterly convinced that Fishball is legit. We don't know the nature of your potential third party powers or objective. I never said you were a straight serial killer or anything. And as for violating your win conditions by doing something insane in a closed set up game. Lets look back to that game you claimed insane Japanese-Israeli busdriver and managed to not fucking die even after I tried firing two nukes at you. So forgive me if I don't think you will die because of one simple lie, which can easily be explained by some sort of greater good excuse to be determined at a later time. When I claimed, this was your reaction: Why the sudden about face? Was it because this was a plan that you created to get town to waste a lynch on me? Good try, but now you're in the shithole. Also, I remember you pulling a similar stunt back a long, long time ago. This game, in fact: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83951¤tpage=30#594 . Turned out you were mafia that game. ##Vote: RebirthofLegend There was never an about face, don't make shit up. As I said before, as a third party your best method to win in this set up would be to try to kill the mafia, as I said LSB is town. Me saying you look shitty now doesn't mean I can't agree with you that LSB looks shitty. Your logic is completely wrong and you know it. That's roughly equivalent to saying "If someone flips town, then everything they said was right." Inversely speaking, If I think you are scum, then you must be wrong/lying in your accusation. That is not the case, since both you, me, and fishball say LSB looks like shit. As far as getting the town to waste a lynch on you goes, I am perfectly fine with you targeting mafia. I also have no clue what stunt you are referring to and can't even remember that game, so you might have to be more specific. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On July 01 2011 01:06 Amber[LighT] wrote: You fool no one should be protecting Fishball. He, like Decon and Caller yesterday, made themselves liabilities. If you claim, medics should not feel compelled to protect someone because they "said they were a DT/Vigi." If Fishball thinks he's going to get all of this magic protection tonight he's clearly not playing as well as he used to. He knew the risks, and he acknowledged the fact that he shouldn't have claimed. You haven't given us shit all game so far. Yeah, clearly you didn't read Fishball's post. On top of which you seem to not understand that while that may be good advice to not protect an infidel like fishball, don't be surprised if a medic doesn't listen to you. Every post is "im catching up" or "I agree." You haven't once presented an original idea which leads me to believe you're just trying to bullshit your way through the game, hoping no one catches you. You were suspicious day 1, now you're even more suspicious. You're clinging onto these little connections that are making you look even more scummy. Instead of just claiming, or doing anything helpful, you're belittling Caller. Good idea. First off, you are one to talk about not presenting an original idea. While I may have just agreed with the Chaoser/Viscera lynch, I gave my own reasoning. At the same time I was the first person to expand in detail on why this whole DT claim shit sucks. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On July 01 2011 01:14 Amber[LighT] wrote: You couldn't minimize SC2 to vote for VisceraEyes. You were the deciding vote. Seriously though... Desert Strike? You couldn't alt+tab for 2 seconds? Since you obviously read the thread, you must have forgotten that I did present a voting idea that was promptly ignored by everyone, and trolled on by about 3 people, Caller being one of them. Everything that happened during Day 1 would have been prevented if people just listened to me, or at least acknowledged my post. I don't recall you replying to it. Wrong day, it was monobattles, as I have said 5 times. You are looking at the wrong day. On top of which, it was an intense game. We were Tank/Phoenix/Marauder vs Marine/ling/ling and we won. Not the easiest thing to do by any means. On top of that, I just forgot I had to do that. Believe it or not, I forgot. More to the point, I am not stupid enough to push a team mate aggressively then "accidentally" forget to make sure he dies. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On July 01 2011 01:24 Kurumi wrote: Are You really trying to divert the lynch telling us that Third Party role exists and it is Caller? Lol. No, I am saying fishball is full of shit and that's why you shouldn't kill me. Look how fast I am getting stacked, this is clearly bullshit. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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As I said earlier, I am purely speculating on you caller. The second hit confuses the shit out of me, and I can't explain it other then by what I wrote or another vig. If you don't believe there is a medic, then there is no problem in waiting for him to hopefully role claim, if I am lying, it won't happen. We fundamentally disagree on your first response though. A. What are you talking about? B. I still think it was dumb and C. you are wrong. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
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On July 01 2011 01:56 Caller wrote: you're the one that's full of shit. I just proved it. You didn't prove shit just because you run around yelling. | ||
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