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I can assure you it all fits...even if it's WIFOM, that doesn't make it wrong. It only makes it WIFOM. But really, there's NOTHING that condemns RoL that occured yesterday. Not one thing. ESPECIALLY his lynch of YM. How is it his fault if a bunch of townies foolishly voted for YM based on weak analysis and basically just the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY OF ONE OF THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED AND RECOGNIZED VETERANS? You YOURSELF said it was weak analysis. Being wrong does not equal being scum. BEING WRONG DOES NOT EQUAL BEING SCUM.
You want Meta? Mataza tried to get Town to commit to some kind of super-power-play in SNMMII, and he was lynched for it. By the way Mataza, you never DID clear up what exactly that was, and I've always wanted to know...just never remembered to ask.
You want proof? I have none. I have only my story and my theory. I'm open to suggestions on how to clear it up, but I firmly believe that RoL is being set up. If I live through the night, I will NOT support his lynch tomorrow unless town is ABSOLUTELY set on it...by a VAST majority. Right up to the point where it becomes ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN town wants him to live, I'm pushing Mataza as hard as I can.
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Do you actually think that RebirthofLegend is the best player ever?
Seriously.
There is the whole zodiac list of players who are accredited of being able to save the whole town. It´s not only RoL. BC is a better primary target.
And don´t argue for BC. I didn´t force him to say that I am scum, that we are in a much better position than ever before in this game(while we are actually one day before lylo) and that what my plan is useless if I don´t have the piece of text where Sandroba tells RoL of my blueness.
With the amount of interest RoL showed this game there would be no sense in lynching him with *any plan*.
He promised things he didn´t do(PM pressure), he defended himself by waiting 20 hours and his alternative was a mislynch that had a very good sounding case. Sorry I am not as suave a writer.
He didn´t do anything and he lied about his intentions with his mason plot and his number of masons, so why even bother killing him from scum perspective?
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On June 23 2011 11:11 Mataza wrote:I AM CALLING THE SHOTS NOW GODDAMMIT.
BC SCUM.
ROL SCUM.
If you are a Vig or a hatter, take a coin, flip it: If it lands tails kill Rebirthoflegend, If it lands heads kill Bloodyc0bbler. Medics you roll a die. If it lands 5 or 6, you choose for yourself. If it lands 1,2 3,4 you protect me. I am the blueest bro in town and I just lost my last mason, Youngminii. I knew he was green because scum tunneled him. They wouldn´t bus now, because it would drop their kp to 2. Assuming Youngminii was scum too along with RoL is also backwards ass logic.
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^
^
^
This is a lie - you're still masoned with me to this moment.
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It's all very clear. The fact that GGQ is defending Mataza and his 'plan' is very telling.
Node defended Mataza in a PM to me.
Node attacked and even voted RoL. A bunch of people did, but not a bunch of people are CONFIRMED SCUM.
Node attacked sandroba and aidnai in a PM to me.
Node defended Mataza in a PM to me.
This is about all the proof I have.
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On June 24 2011 02:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
I can assure you it all fits...even if it's WIFOM, that doesn't make it wrong. It only makes it WIFOM. But really, there's NOTHING that condemns RoL that occured yesterday. Not one thing. ESPECIALLY his lynch of YM. How is it his fault if a bunch of townies foolishly voted for YM based on weak analysis and basically just the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY OF ONE OF THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED AND RECOGNIZED VETERANS? You YOURSELF said it was weak analysis. Being wrong does not equal being scum. BEING WRONG DOES NOT EQUAL BEING SCUM.
You want Meta? Mataza tried to get Town to commit to some kind of super-power-play in SNMMII, and he was lynched for it. By the way Mataza, you never DID clear up what exactly that was, and I've always wanted to know...just never remembered to ask.
You want proof? I have none. I have only my story and my theory. I'm open to suggestions on how to clear it up, but I firmly believe that RoL is being set up. If I live through the night, I will NOT support his lynch tomorrow unless town is ABSOLUTELY set on it...by a VAST majority. Right up to the point where it becomes ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN town wants him to live, I'm pushing Mataza as hard as I can.
The weak analysis was the best RoL could do. ONE OF THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED AND RECOGNIZED VETERANS.
Stop worshipping veterans. They are not gods. They don´t win the game for us. I doubt they are even trying.
You have no proof? Wonderful. You are just being paranoid.
There is the law of Occam´s razor. If several explanations are possible, it is usually the one that is the least complicated.
The game has nearly gone to shitz now. You only cling to the hope that RoL is vigilante. Vigilante´s are unblockable by roleblockers, so RoL is still able to shoot Fudgemonkey if he really thinks he is scum.
You say being wrong doesn´t mean RoL is scum.
But I am scum whether or not I am right? You told me to not be convinced by RoL that he is innocent. What is the deal with you?
[02:45] <Mataza> it looks like it worked as it should
[02:45] <Mataza> so I am not going to assume it failed
[02:46] <VisceraEyes> True...and I see that you're going through with it in his name...but I can also see that RoL has swayed you.
[02:46] <VisceraEyes> You no longer think he's scum..somehow
[02:46] <VisceraEyes> MY point is that you have to factor in the VAST experience RoL has in convincing people he's not scum...and that some other sap is.
Remember this? You reassured me that RoL can only be scum and now I am guilty for that?
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On June 24 2011 03:02 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:11 Mataza wrote:I AM CALLING THE SHOTS NOW GODDAMMIT.
BC SCUM.
ROL SCUM.
If you are a Vig or a hatter, take a coin, flip it: If it lands tails kill Rebirthoflegend, If it lands heads kill Bloodyc0bbler. Medics you roll a die. If it lands 5 or 6, you choose for yourself. If it lands 1,2 3,4 you protect me. I am the blueest bro in town and I just lost my last mason, Youngminii. I knew he was green because scum tunneled him. They wouldn´t bus now, because it would drop their kp to 2. Assuming Youngminii was scum too along with RoL is also backwards ass logic.
Everyone has 2 masons. I am your mason Sandroba and YM are my masons.
I am the mason of a couple of other people.
You are officially out of my communication until you stop flailing. because if you flail, you might spill every little thing to the thread.
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Occam's razor says that mafia just shot you and sandroba with no ulterior motives.
@RoL
If you're a vig announce your hit a couple minutes before the day post if possible
If you're scum, show up dead in the day post, or shoot one of your team mates, please. :p
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Btw
If I am right(and the scum know before I do), then everyone able to talk to me has a huge target strapped to their back also.
What is YOUR plan beyond killing me?
You have a townsaving plan?
The assumption that scum blue snipe like awesome and then switch into a 1:1 trade short before lylo is the most far fetched thing I ever heard. You are now of the opinion of Bloodyc0bbler. GZ.
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On June 24 2011 02:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's because that's as far as the plan went. There was no bigger picture. Yes, it's true, -1 Medic would mean it's LIKELY that a double-stack of Mafia hits COULD have killed him. But let's assume there's 1 medic. Aside from Mataza's claim, have any other Vets come forward? No? Then it's possible that RoL would live. Not to mention how much protection he ASSURED for himself the whole game. The ultimate plan was to LYNCH RoL, because that's the only way to kill him for certain. No PRs interfering, nothing to stop them. Only a bunch of noobs who do what they're told.
Would YOU pass up an opportunity like that?
Yes I would. It would be a terrible plan and you are twisting your brain into circles trying to find the least likely explanation for what's happened in this game.
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On June 24 2011 02:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's because that's as far as the plan went. There was no bigger picture. Yes, it's true, -1 Medic would mean it's LIKELY that a double-stack of Mafia hits COULD have killed him. But let's assume there's 1 medic. Aside from Mataza's claim, have any other Vets come forward? No? Then it's possible that RoL would live. Not to mention how much protection he ASSURED for himself the whole game. The ultimate plan was to LYNCH RoL, because that's the only way to kill him for certain. No PRs interfering, nothing to stop them. Only a bunch of noobs who do what they're told.
Would YOU pass up an opportunity like that?
I still find it very unlikely that mafia went through with an intricate plan like this for the sole purpose of getting RoL killed. The only way that he'd survive the night if mafia stacked 2 KP on him is if he is either a vet with one medic protecting him, or a regular townie with two medics protecting him (assuming this setup contains 3 medics) and I don't think there's a high probability of either of these being true. I mean, after D2's townie lynch that RoL pushed plus his bad attitude during D1, I don't see why there would be medics protecting him over the other vets/more contributing people.
I actually think that the chance of getting RoL killed by carrying out this plan is drastically lower than the chances of killing him by stacking 2 KP on him.
Also, I think GGQ touched on a quite good point: why would Mataza not fabricate Sandroba's blueslip to RoL if he wanted him killed so badly? No one except RoL and Mataza could know for sure what Sandroba said to him (RoL). If RoL called his bluff then Mataza could simply say that he was lying because he was being accused.
To be frank, I also think that you're being a bit too paranoid.
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On June 24 2011 03:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Occam's razor says that mafia just shot you and sandroba with no ulterior motives.
@RoL
If you're a vig announce your hit a couple minutes before the day post if possible
If you're scum, show up dead in the day post, or shoot one of your team mates, please. :p
This is the first time that anyone ever argues it may be coincidence.
Now this can´t explain the bluesnipe quote. If there is anything one thesis cannot cover you are allowed to go one level higher on complexity.
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On June 24 2011 03:34 Mataza wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 03:22 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Occam's razor says that mafia just shot you and sandroba with no ulterior motives.
@RoL
If you're a vig announce your hit a couple minutes before the day post if possible
If you're scum, show up dead in the day post, or shoot one of your team mates, please. :p This is the first time that anyone ever argues it may be coincidence. Now this can´t explain the bluesnipe quote. If there is anything one thesis cannot cover you are allowed to go one level higher on complexity.
I've been arguing it's coincidence the entire time? If I say RoL is town, and you are a veteran, what other explanation can I give? Unless you're scum, you don't know what scum were planning on doing with their shots.
Also, what do you mean "bluesnipe quote"?
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On June 24 2011 02:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
I can assure you it all fits...even if it's WIFOM, that doesn't make it wrong. It only makes it WIFOM. But really, there's NOTHING that condemns RoL that occured yesterday. Not one thing. ESPECIALLY his lynch of YM. How is it his fault if a bunch of townies foolishly voted for YM based on weak analysis and basically just the ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY OF ONE OF THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED AND RECOGNIZED VETERANS? You YOURSELF said it was weak analysis. Being wrong does not equal being scum. BEING WRONG DOES NOT EQUAL BEING SCUM.
You want Meta? Mataza tried to get Town to commit to some kind of super-power-play in SNMMII, and he was lynched for it. By the way Mataza, you never DID clear up what exactly that was, and I've always wanted to know...just never remembered to ask.
You want proof? I have none. I have only my story and my theory. I'm open to suggestions on how to clear it up, but I firmly believe that RoL is being set up. If I live through the night, I will NOT support his lynch tomorrow unless town is ABSOLUTELY set on it...by a VAST majority. Right up to the point where it becomes ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN town wants him to live, I'm pushing Mataza as hard as I can.
I don't understand how you can write this and not see the problem. How is it his fault that a bunch of townies voted for youngminii? Well probably because he made the analysis and pushed it on them. How is it his fault that it's weak analysis? Because he made it! He completely misinterpreted youngminii's play on day 1, you can believe that was an accident if you want, but the way that he literally twisted EVERYTHING to come to the conclusion that he wanted should tell you that he wasn't looking for scum, he was just trying to make someone look like scum. The only people who do that are the mafia.
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First 2 days, 6 people were killed by scum, 3 of which were blue.
3/6 is a 50% hitrate for blues, which is quite a good quota I imagine.
Sorry, in german quota is written quote. I could also say hitrate.
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On June 23 2011 11:04 GGQ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2011 11:03 ~OpZ~ wrote:
...well RoL...I told you what happens if YM popped green. Nighty Nighty Guys, GL Town. If you're taking care of RoL, vigis can hit BC.
I'm gonna take this back, all town kp should be hitting RoL tonight. No reason to take chances, you'll get your bullets back if someone else kills him.
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On June 24 2011 03:33 Shraft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2011 02:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's because that's as far as the plan went. There was no bigger picture. Yes, it's true, -1 Medic would mean it's LIKELY that a double-stack of Mafia hits COULD have killed him. But let's assume there's 1 medic. Aside from Mataza's claim, have any other Vets come forward? No? Then it's possible that RoL would live. Not to mention how much protection he ASSURED for himself the whole game. The ultimate plan was to LYNCH RoL, because that's the only way to kill him for certain. No PRs interfering, nothing to stop them. Only a bunch of noobs who do what they're told.
Would YOU pass up an opportunity like that? I still find it very unlikely that mafia went through with an intricate plan like this for the sole purpose of getting RoL killed. The only way that he'd survive the night if mafia stacked 2 KP on him is if he is either a vet with one medic protecting him, or a regular townie with two medics protecting him (assuming this setup contains 3 medics) and I don't think there's a high probability of either of these being true. I mean, after D2's townie lynch that RoL pushed plus his bad attitude during D1, I don't see why there would be medics protecting him over the other vets/more contributing people. I actually think that the chance of getting RoL killed by carrying out this plan is drastically lower than the chances of killing him by stacking 2 KP on him. Also, I think GGQ touched on a quite good point: why would Mataza not fabricate Sandroba's blueslip to RoL if he wanted him killed so badly? No one except RoL and Mataza could know for sure what Sandroba said to him (RoL). If RoL called his bluff then Mataza could simply say that he was lying because he was being accused. To be frank, I also think that you're being a bit too paranoid.
Whether or not it's true does not discount its possibility, the possibility I'm postulating Mafia were trying to avoid. The fact that it's possible lends to PROVE the credibility of my statement, not disprove it.
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Do you know what also is a decent possibility?
That you are scum trying to paint me red so we waste our town roles by killing me, which would cause the town to kill RoL tomorrow and BC to not die at all.
This is possible Viscera, you can´t deny that. No action does paint anyone in any alignment.
If a Veteran surviving a nighthit is not a proof, then talking is out of question as proof of alignment.
Of course you know your alignment and I know that you tend to have paranoid phases.
In PTP it was possible that BC was scum for getting you lynched , that´s why you killed him. You can´t paint every possibility on the wall and pick the one you fear the most and say it must be true.
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That's not what I'm saying. At all. Quit twisting my words. I would have you believe that it's true, and I believe that it's true.
I never at any point said that it MUST be true. YOU are the one dealing in extremes, not me.
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Note, I didn't say "PROVE my statement" I said "PROVE the credibility of my statement".
You just keep digging yourself into a hole, Mataza. And GGQ, the fact that you're only questioning and responding to me leads me to believe that you're defending Mataza and it WILL be reflected on your permanent record. 
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EPT
