EPTEDIT: I want the inventor, if anyone takes the inventor role before I get there I will be rather angry and insist you must be mafia, don't take the inventor role from me, that would make me... unhappy...
Pick Your Power Insane!
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
EDIT: I want the inventor, if anyone takes the inventor role before I get there I will be rather angry and insist you must be mafia, don't take the inventor role from me, that would make me... unhappy... | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
That would make me sad ;_; | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 08 2011 14:28 Ver wrote: This is going to get interesting! Why does that one sentence strike pure terror in my heart? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Do I smell a triple smurf coming our way? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
EDIT: Is it Bill Murray ?  | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 10 2011 13:58 Kavdragon wrote: Excellent. If i recall correctly you the KSP ended up being one of my chief supporters. Glad to have you back. The only people I'm really afraid of are the "Lynch Kav Day One" party members. They know how to get it DONE. I will be running for pardoner on the platform of not pardoning unless someone pissess me off. And lynching kav, lets add that to my platform too. If elected I will lynch kav! And uh... kill mafia? But mostly we'll be focusing on the lynching of kav. There will be a surprise if I win. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 12 2011 11:06 Qatol wrote: /out O.O Hope nothing sinister is going on... | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 13 2011 09:01 flamewheel wrote: Yeah okay I'll play. *cheers!* | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 14 2011 08:14 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Starting tonight? :p I checked the alignment of the stars, and computed it with the current results of the TSL, as well as a Gaussian identity matrix, from that I concluded that all signs point to "loquat" which is an anagram of Qatol + U, from this I conclusively determined that it depends on when Ver wants it to start. That was useful! | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
and I'm not going to claim them now | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On December 30 2010 16:32 Qatol wrote: The town wants overlaps so the mafia are either forced into early positions/ roles they cannot use effectively without becoming suspicious or positions later in the draft where the mafia cannot be sure their desired roles will be available. so, whatever you do, don't claim your numbers, we want to throw the mafia off, the last thing we want them is to be able to take two kp roles or something like that. Onto GM's Mafia Power denial plan. In this game there are several powers that are really, really anti town, and rather powerful, the GF's, the PoD and such. The easiest way to counter these powers is to know who has them, that way we avoid their usage by having someone responsible for them. For this reason I have created a draft of the most "anti-town" roles in the game and assigned numbers to pick them. If your number in the draft order coincides with this power then you *must* pick it, so we can control what roles the mafia has. 1-5- KP roles, America/CPR doc/inventor or roles you know you can use effectively (pupeteer, etc) I also advise that the MethMan be picked up there to encourage the mafia to not shoot into those roles. Position 6- Theif. We dont want the mafia to have this, since its even more anti-town than copycat in mafia hands, as it allows them to deny us a role and gain a powerful role. 7- Caller Godfather- since its extremely anti town and essentially adds a traitor to our ranks, its not something I want to worry about 8- PoD- again extremely anti town, lets deny its usage shall we? 9- vote rigger, like a pardoner on steroids, if a pardoner pardons we just lynch him, we have no way of catching the rigger, this way we know who he is from here on down people should choose what they feel they can use effectively and to the benefit of the town. By following this plan we eliminate the threat of 4 worrisome roles that can really hurt the town. This needs some refinement naturally, but it seems to me like a decent start. Also if any of these roles have been taken we know that the mafia is somewhere in the top five and *really* wants whatever role it is they took, thus we can focus our search on those Pardoner dosn't worry me as he must out himself to use his power and is then guaranteed to be made a pincushion by our vigis and other killing roles, and the threat of the copycat is nullified as long as we lynch someone low on the list. Just my initial thoughts, comments? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 14 2011 10:05 Ace wrote: here we go again. Assigning roles before people pick. Disaster incoming. Where exactly does this cause "disaster" to me it looks like it causes accountability for anti-town roles and only for anti-town roles. Can you explain why its a bad idea? I'd really love to hear your input on this. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 14 2011 10:12 Ace wrote: accountability? lol did you read the last 3 PYP games? Yes, yes I did, I fail to see your point, if we know who has the PoD and we go into a double night then we vigi shoot him right off the bat, or lynch him if that isn't an option... Same with the other roles, assuming the plan is actually followed where is the flaw? And if its not followed what do you propose? Everyone picks whatever they want? I feel like thats going to end with the mafia holding enough powerful roles to roll over us by denying lynches/converting people. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 14 2011 10:25 Ace wrote: 1.) Can't know if your "assigned" roles went to the right person. 2.) Won't know if the role went to town or mafia For the chance of tying a few people to roles and not alignment you'll be giving Scum information on where the roles went. Lets not forget that unlike any other PYP game the amount of killing roles in this game are pretty high. 1.) *if* we agree to follow the plan then we will, because if they are town they will pick them, in the interest of benefiting the town, and if they are scum they don't want to be caught at a lie. And we'll be able to tell if the power was picked earlier since the person picking it will get vanilla. However I agree that this might be a weakness of the plan, is there any way to remedy it? 2.) It wont matter, if they are town they will never use the role, if they are mafia we will know if it is used, and will be able to kill them for it, thats the reason for assigning the activated anti-town roles to these players, rather than passive anti-town roles, its *really* easy to tell if they've been used. On these people being killed by the mafia, then those anti-town roles are out of the game, rather than power roles, I dont see the issue with them being focused down. I can't say I'm comfortable with letting townies pick whatever they want, I feel like thats going to lead to the mafia snagging powerful roles and the town overlapping too much in the role selection. Still this plan cannot work if the people in those positions don't agree to it, so we should be in agreement before the draft order comes out. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 14 2011 10:54 Scamp wrote: Checking used roles doesn't really work. All mafia has to do if they're in the top 5 or whatever is pick a role that's really beneficial to them. Then they have their buddy that picks last take the role that they were supposed to take. Now if you check if the role went off....well it did. Unless you want to assign check-picks to numbers 15-20 or something like that. No, we don't want check-picks, those would saddle us with 5 more vanilas for no tangible benefit. I think I'm missing your point though, lets say mafia lands on 8 and 8 is assigned to pick PoD, and he does not and his buddy at 25 does instead, then if the PoD goes of we lynch 8 and get a mafia, who has a different role, but is still scum, I don't see the flaw in that. I think I may be misunderstanding your post though... | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 14 2011 11:13 Scamp wrote: No, you're not misunderstanding my post but how you came up with that example is beyond me. Unless all roles, when used, also show who used them. Which I don't think they do. The only flaw otherwise is if the buddy gets killed. And the check-picks was a joke. But at least I know you got it. Thats the thing, I picked powers that are obvious when used, if a vote rigger acts we know because the lead person didn't get lynched, if the PoD acts we know because the night is doubled, if the thief acts we know because someone claims they got vanillaized. I the GF acts we know because the mafia count jumps up unexpectedly Thus if the town agrees to follow the plan then those roles will be guaranteed to be in those slots, since people agreed to do it, and if the roles are used we know the people in those slots are responsible for the usage of the power. If a person lies about following this plan they deserve what they have coming, and will die if the mafia uses the power, since they will be held responsible. Does my plan make more sense now? Its essentially a way to nullify the one shot visible anti-town roles. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 14 2011 11:35 dreamflower wrote: Isn't it a little early to be arguing over role distribution? Right now, everyone is just picking numbers and reading over the role descriptions. If anything, we shouldn't be sharing too much information over roles or numbers, so that the Mafia has as little information as possible and can't manipulate the draft order to get (or worse, get assigned) a specific position/role. The thing with my denial plan is it shouldn't matter if mafia or town lands the role, and my fear is that if I wait till the draft order comes out the players in those positions will oppose it simply because they feel like those roles wouldn't be as much "fun" as the alternatives. However if you think it wise to wait to discuss it I suppose I can be agreeable to that. Also there has been no discussion of what numbers are being picked, and I want it to remain that way, as this way we increase clashes and disrupt the mafia, which can only be good for the town. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
I also ranked them in order of perceived usefulness, 1 being the most useful. I'll discuss role synergies in a later post, some roles fall into multiple categories, I rated everything with two numbers, A Threat rating and a town power , the red number is how good it is for the mafia, the other how good it is for the town. + Show Spoiler [KP Roles] + 71 America - repeated shot day-vig, in the hands of the town almost as good as a double lynch every day, much potential to cause harm, but since its obvious who is using it its not too bad for us in the hands of the mafia 2 2CPR Doctor - a quirky compulsive vigilante 4 3Kingmaker - distributes out kills, like America huge potential for destruction, although not as good as nukes, and is slightly better for the mafia 5 4 Vigilante - 2 night KP 9 5 Chuiu Jack - 1 vigi shot, more useful than the day vigi, more dangerous too 1 6 Assassin - devastating in the hands of the mafia, as they can always guess town aligned and be right, since the ability is anonymous it is a free kp for the mafia every day, while in the hands of the town it is much less powerful, better then the day vigi because it is unable to kill innocents 10 7 Capitalist - 1 kill, role checks could be nice for either side, but not terribly useful 11 8Emperor -chooses a day 1 lynch, thats one KP, not a real must have though... double lynch is nice I guess 12 9Day Vigilante - 1 revealed KP 3 10 Bad Santa - Really powerful in the hands of the mafia, not so much in the hands of the town, in the hands of the mafia it equates two extra kills, in the hands of the town its pretty bad 6 11 Vote Rigger - 1 kp in the form of controlling the lynch, denies the town its own KP, it contains a double lynch which is good for the town 9 12Admiral Ackbar - huge destructive potential, if the mafia need to break a medic protect you can count on them using this. 10 13 Suicide Bomber - like the AA except only works at night, potentially destructive 14 14 Mad Hatter - subjective kp, not worrisome in the hands of the mafia, might be ok in the hands of the town 13 15Mafia 4 Hatter - like the mad hatter, except that it can suicide, 1 suicidal KP I guess 5-7? 9-10?Bomber Man - this role is too quirky to be considered too powerful, but it could unleash destruction if used correctly, I'm not sure of how to rank it. 3? 3?Hooker - interesting mechanic, a delayed set of KP, not sure how to treat it to be honest, its like compulsive vigi almost tentative ratings of 3/3 That was KP, working on the rest of the sets now, this will probably take some time | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
All that said I still think we need to find some way to neutralize the threat that the Theif represents to town power roles, as if mafia takes it they can use it to secure any power in the top five, which is obviously not good for us. Anyone have any thoughts as to how to deny the theif, other than assigning a seed number to take it? (since no one likes that plan -__-) | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
I am going to be taking either an inba role or an anti-kp role. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 16 2011 19:12 chaoser wrote: My interests are currently with interviews so you'll have to excuse me the last few days. Last interview will be on Tuesday so I will be 100% free after that. That being said, I was busy talking with tnkt about the impending rapture on TLMafia IRC last night so thats my scheme =[ to survive it. http://www.raptureready.com/ Here, you can be ready too. ##vote GMarshal. Y U SAY CHUIU JACK IS PROMAFIA? Because I was tired and I saw it had two kills? I didn't really think about it that hard to be honest, I was like "its like the vigi, so it helps mafia about as much as taking a vigi, but better because it takes away DT checks from the town, its better for the mafia then a regular vigi then" Again, if anything it shows I shouldn't be posting when not properly rested, I also made stupid assumptions about the assassin and said America was good for the town because it served as a double lynch, so yeah, I had some questionable (read *stupid*) logic in there. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 16 2011 23:41 Incognito wrote: Whoever is the vote rigger should rig the votes into 4 sections of roughly equal sizes. Try to spread out the people with the same numbers onto different lists. Agreed, if we have the Mafia II detective (and we should) then it makes it really easy for him to use his role appropriately, it also keeps the rig from showing up as a nasty surprise later. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 00:33 Kavdragon wrote: Also, while I disagree with lynching GMarshal today, on the basis that his true colors WILL show pretty obviously with time, and while I think his behavior is suspicious, he can be a valuable asset to the town. I have held this opinion for a while now: I don't like lynching potentially valuable players day 1. Day 1 is easy to mess up, it's not worth the risk. I'm sure there are better targets out there, like, for instance, Node. I'll post more on that later though. While I'm glad you don't want to lynch me, I have to ask, what part of my behavior is "suspicious"? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 01:09 Barundar wrote: @GM I can't talk for others, but I noticed that you suggested a plan that involves #6 to pick thief, but when you end up #6 yourself, and people assign you thief, you respond with: I find it curious that when your own proposition corresponds to the one you get offered, you shoot it down as mafia influenced. Not at all, but I stated that a denial plan would only be useful if we all agreed to it, I was under the impression that the town decision was "If someone takes an anti-town role they will be lynched" so I followed the plan that it seemed we had agreed on. Had we all agreed to follow my denial plan I would have gone with it. @Kav and me laying low, the thing is the moment I busted out a plan I thought was decent I got put on the "Ignore this player" list by one person and called bad by another three, there are a lot of vet players here and I'm out of my usual turf, as asking questions to generate town activity clearly isn't going to be an important part of getting the town to work together, and prodding inactives is not going to be that important either with all the experienced players in this game. @Kav on the vote rigger, I still think it helps the Mafia II detective a lot if we split the town into four camps, as it means he dosn't have to worry about lists that overlap and such, it also eliminates the "threat" of the vote rigger, so I think its a good idea to use him today. I think thats everything I wanted to address, other than the fact that chaoser isn't being as active as I'm used to seeing him, which for now merits a FoS. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 03:53 tnkted wrote: ...Since GM isn't doing it... Its time for some GM style pressure! Chaoser, deconduo, and Caller: who do you think the 3 most suspicious players are, and why? GM: you said that the reason you aren't acting like a townie (as you usually do) is because you're intimidated by the amount of experienced players that are playing. Why didn't you act intimidated in sleeper cell mafia, in which ace, bum, rean, and several other experienced players were playing? Different levels, the only "vet" I was uncomfortable with/hadn't played with before was Ace, in this roster of players the majority are experienced people I haven't played with in the past. Incog, fw, dreamflower, etc, are all players I know to be excellent, and who I don't really have a meta read on because they haven't played in a while, so I really don't know how to handle them. Maybe intimidation is not the word, I just don't really have a handle on the situation yet. Also I'm terrified of running afoul of Ver's "don't spam" rule, so I'm trying to make each one of my posts at least somewhat substantial, rather than replying to every post I see/ Also because I'm in the mood, I'll answer your questions. 1.) Chaoser- this might seem OMGUS, but his vote on me is entirely out of character, chaoser never just goes for an "easy" vote, yet he jumped on me for what I see as poor reasoning, something is off 2.) Node- none of his posts stand out/are memorable to me, usually thats the sign of scum. 3.) Fishball- "I'll do as I please" is the perfect reasoning for mafia to do whatever they please without explanation, and is inherently anti-town, I know sometimes it can be a drag to explain to the town why whatever it is you are doing is obviously good, but refusal to do so is also the sign of scum who don't want to justify their actions. Let me turn the question around on you though tnkted, who are your top two town reads and why? Who in the top six picks do you think is most likely to be mafia and why? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 04:27 chaoser wrote: I just did this in XXXIX on Irish lol...why all the sweating? People place votes on people all the time. Look at Incog's on Kurumi. I didn't even attach a reason behind my vote, a mere meme was written. How can you see poor reasoning when there is no real reasoning lol? Overreaction much? Not at all, I don't mind being voted on, I just don't remember you doing this kind of stuff ^_^ What bothered me was that, the lack of reasoning, if it was just a pressure vote then I understand perfectly, I thought you had an actual grievance with my categorization of the jack | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 04:34 chaoser wrote: you even hosted XXXIX...you said before that it was due to poor reasoning, but now you've changed it to lack of reasoning, which one is it? You've played with me before to know when I actually vote someone I try and make a case against them, not just "Y U SAY CHUIU JACK IS PROMAFIA?" Kinda weird that you would think it's anything but pressure Which is why I was weirded out, I was like "Is he really voting for me because I said that the jack is a good pick for the mafia? wtf is he smoking?" Chalk it up to whatever you wish, at this point there's not much to discuss here other than I though that you were reading much more into one of my post than you should, not realizing it wasn't a serious accusations. I felt it was kind of like when sand decided in Experimental Mafia II that me asking questions was 100% scummy, no matter what I said. Either way I feel like this discussion is derailing us from actual scum hunting. I'd like it if you answered the questions that tnkted asked earlier. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 04:36 Foolishness wrote: Are we really going to try to base a plan around rigging the votes and getting a votecheck? What happened to "let's treat this as a normal game until someone claims"? I notice you voted incognito, is there a reason behind that? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 05:27 Kavdragon wrote: In addition we need to worry about the VI. That would be a popular role as I see it, and If someone up high didn't pick it. In general I think we need to be careful about lynching the higher ups if not altogether avoiding it for at least the first day. We don't need to worry about the VI in the sense that its irrelevant if we lynch him as we don't lose, its obviously better that we lynch mafia, but if someone is acting scummy we should not refrain from lynching them out of fear that they are the VI, in my opinion at least. On lynching the higher ups, again I think its a matter of how sure we are, if we are pretty sure someone is scum then I don't think we need to worry about them being a "power role" as long as we believe them them to be mafia. At the very least we can start to build cases against them for tomorrow, even if we decide to avoid lynching them for today. @Radfeild and clashing, I think it best if we assume that the mafia would not *intentionally* clash, thus if we find a mafia in a group of numbers its less than likely that they have another team member in the same number cluster. I like Kav's current idea, while he looks into wiggles I'll look into KillerSOS | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
KillerSOS So, I did a search of all his posts in order to find any posts that were relevant to analyze, looking for something juicy. There is exactly nothing, he has posted nothing but one liners. I'll pull out the ones that seem relevant, but theres *nothing* there. Here are some examples of his great contributions + Show Spoiler [great contributions!] + On May 14 2011 10:28 KillerSOS wrote: Well I'm going with two mid range numbers. Dare you to guess them. Completely irrelevant post, also not true he picked [5] IIRC, which is not really midrange, usless post On May 15 2011 17:03 KillerSOS wrote: I like how 13 was near the top. Interesting. Contribution = 0 On May 16 2011 16:15 KillerSOS wrote: I also believe that clashes in numbers won't be that useful this early in the game. I'm sure that the mafia are smart enough to grab some top slots, while at the same time randomizing the other half of their members. First game relevant post, and all it does is shoot down a decent idea, without actually contributing anything, bravo, so far my "lurker" radar is going nuts. On May 17 2011 03:10 KillerSOS wrote: I think it's fairly obvious that you are just spitting out nonsense. Would you like to explain yourself? People are accusing me, quickly demand an explanation of why they think that my 8 posts are all contentless one liners! KillerSOS is lurking, and I've made my stance on lurkers clear in the past, hang them all! ##Vote KillerSOS Get in here and contribute or hang by the neck till dead, I'd rather you did the former, but if you refuse I have no issue hanging you for it. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Dreamflower I would like to point out a lurker who should be doing better, a supposedly great player who is simply lurking and not contributing. Dreamflower has a grand total of five posts in this thread, none of which contain original ideas or any content worth analzying, since its only 5 posts I decided I'd include them all here On May 14 2011 10:49 dreamflower wrote: Just checking in to say that I have sent in my numbers and at the moment, I have no idea which role(s) I'd pick. A standard "don't modkill me" post, along with a demonstration of indecisiveness, +1 scumpoint On May 14 2011 11:35 dreamflower wrote: Isn't it a little early to be arguing over role distribution? Right now, everyone is just picking numbers and reading over the role descriptions. If anything, we shouldn't be sharing too much information over roles or numbers, so that the Mafia has as little information as possible and can't manipulate the draft order to get (or worse, get assigned) a specific position/role. This post has a positive and a negative, on the positive side, its all good stuff, I disagree with her about discussing role distribution, but it looks like a solid post. Until you realize someone else posted this first and this is a rewording of it... scummy in my eyes at least. On May 15 2011 13:37 dreamflower wrote: I picked [4][1], and now I can see why I ended up at #16. I'm sorry if you guys were hoping to be higher up on the draft order, though I must say I'm kind of glad that I ended up in the middle. I don't mind getting a slightly-less-controversial blue role, hopefully. "don't mind me guys, I just want to skirt under the radar, avoiding attention if at all possible" On May 16 2011 14:20 dreamflower wrote: Hmmm. I think that depends on the role that you were trying to get and missed on, especially if they're really anti-town. If you requested the traitor role or the Caller godfather role and didn't get it, then you should definitely say so. Then we know those roles are in the game and have some sense of where they may be. On the other hand, if you missed out on a role that the Mafia would love to snipe, such as one of the detective or medic roles, then your claim would hurt the town more than it would help. "Let me state the obvious some more" its not a bad point, but it seems kind of evident, to me at least, not scummy per-se but when taken in context with the other posts it raises my eyebrows even more. On May 17 2011 00:27 dreamflower wrote: I do apologize for not having posted a great deal since the game started. It's been a while since my last game of Mafia, and I feel extremely rusty and deeply unwilling to just post for the sake of posting when I really don't know what I'm talking about. (Admittedly, Ver's crazy setup hasn't helped either. Plan-concocting has never been my strength, and I can't get my head around the long list of possible and possibly imbalanced roles.) Thus, I've started reading over PYP 3 to see what did and didn't work in a previous PYP game. Hopefully that'll acclimate me more toward playing PYP Mafia games and help me contribute better. More of this "ignore me, I'm confused" and "its been so long since I played mafia" its making excuses to justify lurking, and it sets off every alarm in my head. If figuring out the setup is not your strong point, you should then be concentrating on scumhunting, not everyone can figure out the magical combination of roles to win the game, but everyone can catch scum In the meantime, I will respond to this: There are a lot of numbers clashing, for sure. Considering the Mafia can coordinate with each other to avoid their numbers clashing and being bumped down to the bottom, where they're less likely to grab the most valuable roles, I think at least half the people who chose 4 and 9 (the numbers that clashed the most often) are probably town. In a setup like this, I doubt the Mafia would want to be pushed toward the bottom by picking the same numbers as each other. Again, this has been said, and its kind of obvious, the mafia will not intentionally clash, this is a subtle attempt to clear herself, after all if she were mafia she wouldn't clash with her buddies... Still its a true statement, but its trying to *look* like a contribution without contributing (long post so comments in bold) Veredict: Lurking Scum dreamflower needs to step up her game, as she has yet to add anything to the town. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
No, I'm not moving my vote until SOS shows up and actually says stuff, and only if I deem the stuff he says to be worthwhile. I'd like to have two votes so I could vote for both, but I only have one vote, if someone else would like to pressure her for me that would be great though. ^_^ | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 06:58 KillerSOS wrote: He likes to lash out in fear obviously. Sure thing, try actually contributing and I might let off the pressure. Hint, passive aggressive comments are not "contribution" by any stretch of the imagination. Let me help you, who are your top two scum reads and why? Top two town reads? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 17 2011 07:23 dreamflower wrote: I am not a great player; Sorry for praising you? I could have sworn you have at least a couple good games of scumhunting under your belt, notably mafia 8 IIRC. Either way, I'd like to see you post more. ^_^ | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
1.) it lets the mafia lynch whoever they feel like lynching 2.) Makes list checks, which we all agree are a strong ability, much weaker I think we should narrow our list of targets down to three, maybe four candidates. I propose the following two candidates as prime targets: Node: Not a single one of his posts is memorable, and reading over them all he has done is shoot down plans and gone after "easy" targets like Chezinu, who are better suited to policy vigilate shots rather than lynches Eiii- On May 17 2011 10:31 Eiii wrote: Oh man, decon just made himself the perfect placeholder vote candidate. Or maybe even a good lynch candidate! :D This post is so scummy its not even funny, it shows a complete disregard for the power of his vote and a "yay easy bandwagon" attitude that is at the very least anti-town, if not outright scummy On KillerSOS His response to pressure has been to continue to post nothing of use. This upsets me... I propose that he get night killed too if we have a vigi who is kind enough to shoot him, since so far he has been completely useless. Also, although I will not act on it now, as I don't want to add even more targets to the discussion, FoS on Kitaman27, who has so far contributed next to nothing, he proposed a high town KP plan and the never spoke of it again, and then pushed the really easy target of decon. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote: Node | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 18 2011 02:41 Eiii wrote: hey remember that time I posted about this yeah me neither I hate reading Yeah, I read your "oh noes, its impossible to lynch scum day 1 post." color me unconvinced, we have 96 hours of information, mafia can be found, you are just choosing not to look. Also its blatantly obvious decon is not mafia, no mafia try to get themselves lynched, by voting for him you are promoting an anti-town agenda, by both killing non-mafia *and* giving the mafia (if you aren't mafia) an easy target to vote for. On the post you claim you justified, I'm not talking about just the content, I'm talking about the mindset behind that post. With that post you are revealing that you don't care about where your vote goes, which is not a town attitude, all good townies care about who they are voting to kill, mafia however are happy to vote for *anyone* as long as its not a mafia buddy. So yes, you can say whatever you want about your thoughts on day 1 lynches, but you still showed a thought process that is mafia oriented, or at least anti-town, and for that I hold you in extreme suspicion. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
I'm still not sure of who to vote for, I don't like any of the current lynch candidates, theres still some time before the deadline, so I'll think on it. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 18 2011 11:43 Incognito wrote: So what you're trying to say is: you're ignoring my analysis because you don't like the way I'm playing. Oh wait a second, thats what you did last game! And you turned out to be mafia. Please don't disappoint me. I've posted analyses on Kavdragon here and here. I'm ignoring your analysis of Kav, because as I said its all based on meta considerations. While those are nice to supplement already solid analysis they are a bad thing to base your cases exclusively on, as peoples attitude and style can change from game to game. As I read it your analysis boils down to "he played more aggressive last game, he isn't as aggressive this game". The only thing that might sell me on that lynch is the fact that he isn't pressing any of his accusations, he fingerpoints and then doesn't push for that targets lynch, which, *independent* of meta consideration is a trait of mafia who look to be contributing without contributing. Especially considering all the time he had to "gather information", however I don't think that that alone is damning enough to push for his lynch (and before people say that that's what I did with df and killerSOS, I left killer to the vigis, and am not going to push df and thus derail what seems to be a decent selection of lynch targets). I'm not ignoring your arguments, just saying that in my mind they don't seem to be that solid, come back with posts that show pushing for mafia objectives or a non-town mindset behind them and I'll get behind the kavdragon lynch, but you are going to need something more solid than "he is playing different" to sway me. Ace plays different every game, do we lynch him for that? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Here's hoping that Caller isn't mafia and is just swaying my vote. If you are town, I apologize profusely Kav, nothing sucks more than being the day1 lynch, but it needs to be someone and the case against you makes sense to me. Plus we need to consolidate our votes, we are far too spread out at the moment. ##Unvote ##Vote: Kavdragon | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 18 2011 19:41 Scamp wrote: GMarshal, Node, and Flamewheel need to explain their last-second voting of KavDragon. I'm stupid, I re-read callers argument and it seemed compelling, I found myself agreeing with his points, so I changed my vote. I was wrong. Lesson learned, don't lynch kav day 1. I'm happy to be DT/Vigid or whatever, I made a seriously stupid mistake, and feel like a moron now. So yeah, if anyone with a gun blows my brains out I won't be holding it against them. *derp* | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Ok, its time to bag some mafia, I'm the Mafia II Detective and I vote checked the Kav wagon. There were 2 mafia voting for Kavdragon yesterday, which means that out of 6 voters KAVDRAGON (6): , GMarshal, Caller, Incognito, Chezinu, Node, flamewheel two are scum and the rest are town or cleverly disguised mafia. I know I'm town, which means we should lynch into one of these five today: Caller, Incognito, Chezinu, Node, flamewheel. If there were any alignment checks in there then we can narrow the lynch even more. I'd ask we keep all discussion and votes focused on these five candidates, and if wiggles would be so kind we can lynch Chezinu and only have four people to worry about, some of which we can actually analyze Also if there are any medics in play, a protect would be *really* nice tonight That is all. Carry on. (also apologies for vanishing last night, computer issues + craptone of work = no time for mafia) | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 19 2011 23:07 KillerSOS wrote: Is it not a safe bet to ride the "Lynch the Incog" train? He was already a high profile target Day 1 and really hasn't done anything to improve his image. Who cares about "safety"? I thought we were here to lynch scum, which is by definition not "safe". Your wording jumps out at me, in a negative way. Do you mean that you think incog is more likely to be mafia? Right now I'm leaning Node as one of the mafia, his lurking behavior is extremely suspicious to me. Id *really* like it if we could have wiggles lynch Chezinu as analysis isn't going to get us anywhere with the "content" of his posts, and frankly I'd rather not have to worry about him being the bomberman and accidentally saying his codeword. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 20 2011 02:33 tnkted wrote: I've just skimmed through the thread (i'm moving today!) so i dont have time for a big long post explaining this, but if inventions can be misused, whoever has those glasses could theoretically misuse them by starting a fire during the day to kill somebody/burn their house down. If that person were to type something like #burn incognito we could get a fourth kill today (counting wiggles and incog's just revealed nuke power). This is assuming of course that inventions could be misused like this. Either way, if rose colored glasses always return red (which seems likely given the name) they have lenses, and those lenses could focus the sun.... also, didn't incog put america on a no-pick list? wtf? Just an idea. Are you high? Inventions do what their description states nothing else, otherwise who knows what shenanigans people could up to with inventions. Unless you know something about the glasses we don't. Either way we have bigger fish to fry than that. Anyway if incog is America as he claims I can't see him being mafia, it seems like it would be the crappiest role for the scum team to pick, ever, mafia don't like powers that require for them to post in thread. Of course maybe he is just a *really* ballsy mafia. Either way I reserve judgment until we see if the nuke goes off. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
As to who we should lynch today my vote stays on Node. If you look at his earlier posts, especially those about the setup after roles went out he shows hints of a mafia mindset, specifically in his emphasis on broken mafia combos, his suggestion that town take "quirky" roles to stop such mafia combos and his emphasis on avoiding a mafia denial plan. On May 15 2011 04:08 Node wrote: Another thing to keep in mind is that the mafia doesn't necessarily have to go for the hyper-agressive, maximize-night-KP-style of play. All of the protection roles in the world won't help us if they go for a setup like Kingmaker, Hero, Politician, Emperor, Vote Rigger, Pardoner. They've got the tools to completely deny us the lynch. Because of this, I'm totally behind just giving town nearly free reign on the roles they think are "cool" -- we need a good mix to make wacky strategies like this more unlikely. Look at this gem of a post, it 1.) shows he is considering different strategies as mafia 2.) suggests that the town pick "cool" roles which are usually not as strong as the more traditional roles. The town would be thinking about broken town combinations much more than about broken mafia combinations, and no sane town would suggest a strategy to the mafia team. On May 17 2011 08:47 Node wrote: I have no problem with giving people what they ask for. ##Vote deconduo Let us all chant "voting for someone who is almost certainly not mafia is not something townies do" Once more, for emphasis "voting for someone who is almost certainly not mafia is not something townies do" mafia don't request to be lynched day one, it just doesn't happen, and assuming decon was a VI, then you just tried to throw away our lynch. I think Node is scum, and the bulk of his posts are not real contributions, the only contributing post is his analysis of Foolishness, which boils down to "foolishness is lurking" which while a valid point, can be said about a bunch of other people such as KillerSOS and Eiii. So yeah, I'm voting Node and so should you, or maybe wiggles should use his lynch on him, and save us the bickering. @those inactive lurkers. KillerSOS, Eiii, others, start posting before I become angry. I may not have a gun, but there are those who do. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Does being framed affect what you appear to the Mafia 2 Detective's list checks | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Ace, you said you had a gun, can you agree to leave incog alone for the day and shoot him tonight? On lurkers, I really hope we have people with plenty of guns, because I wholly approve of killing them with extreme prejudice. Wiggles, could you perhaps use your lynch on one of the inactives to motivate them to be a little bit more active? Its starting to be bothersome. Also what do people think about a Node lynch, is it a good idea? A bad idea? I agree with caller that we should probably try to resolve the list to its fullest. @Barundar: I agree that this lynch is going down way too easy, I'm convinced that incog is a mislynch. If reading experimental mafia 1 taught me anything is that any uncontested lynch is likely a mislynch. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 21 2011 05:11 Radfield wrote: EBWOP: Also, GMarshal, it's a bit ironic that you mention no one is coming to Incogs defense, because actually quite a few players are. Myself, Barundar, yourself, tnkted, dreamflower and maybe a couple others. Mind you, in my mind those players are mainly made up of 'lock-solid townies'. Maybe I'm just misseeing things then, but I kind of feel like its people piling on incog while a couple of us try to point out that he probably isn't mafia. I might just be outright wrong, I really need to go back and reread the thread, but I don't have time to do so at the moment. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 21 2011 10:08 Eiii wrote: I honestly have no clue where the node votes are coming from. Maybe that's because I read through the thread too fast, but even looking back at his posts individually I don't see anything out of place. Could people voting for node give like a two sentence explanation of why he's scum because I really can't come up with anything on my end.. 1.) Strange focus on what combinations mafia might use to break the town 2.) Lack of contribution, he has two major things across four posts, shooting down my denial plan and "analyzing" foolishness and reaching the conclusion that he is lurking 3.) No attempt to defend himself, or make his analysis stick | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 21 2011 10:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm looking for a dead scum. You're not mafia (This would be the stupidest play in the history of mafia if you were) so why should I kill you? This. Times a thousand. When you shoot into my list you do so to kill scum, not to clear town, not to summon genies, you do it to kill scum. I think I need to hammer this into peoples heads. This is not about who writes the fanciest analysis or who has the sanest plan for a town victory, this is about killing scum, plain and simple. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
GMarshal's List So, I'm pretty much resigned to dying tonight. I'm checking the KillerSOS list ofc, which should clear up things significantly, assuming I live, but the mafia are going to be shooting me tonight. So, going player by player and posting my opinions/thoughts on them. 1.bumatlarge- A townie fair and square, his posts ooze greeness, not a single one stick out to me as having an anti-town mindset. The only thing is that he pointed out that the traitor role might be fun, suggesting to me that he might have taken it, be wary if he makes it into the late game, but until then he is a town asset. 2.Foolishness- He is giving me flashbacks to PYP1, which is a *bad* thing, he is supposed to be a powerful town asset, but so far he has yet to do anything for the town, other than express frustration at how bad we are. He either needs to step up his posting or someone should shoot him already. Dont let him lurk till day 7 or something retarded like that please. 3.kitaman27- Lurking scum. Someone needs to take a nice noose to his neck, because he is playing his textbook mafia style 4.Chaoser- step up your game man. You are done with interviews and shit, so if you are town you need to start helping us. Now. Otherwise I'd be sure you're scum. I trust bum to keep an eye on you and force you to contribute. 5. Barundar -Another obvious townie, I'm surprised he hasn't had an anurism yet. Keep trying to steer the town down the right road buddy. His attempt at vote consolidation and general frustration at us point him to be a townie. 6.Mr.Wiggles- all of his posts seem to me to be at least trying to help the town, I wish he'd analyze more, but at this stage of the game I think he is pretty green 7.GMarshal -me. Blue. Duh 8.Node- was convinced he was scum, I'm no longer as sure, his inventions will be his downfall if he is scum. 9. Deconduo – I feel like he has been lurking outside of his “lynch me” thingy. Most likely town, but I need to see more from him... 10.Infinitestory- Townish feel, he has a town shape to his posts. He could be mafia, but I doubt it. I'm open to seeing some solid analysis about him though 12. tnkted- unsure, could go either way with him, none of his posts really stick out in my mind, so worth a DT check. If he took the busdriver then lynch him, no further questions asked. 14. Radfield- town, is the general feel I get from his posts. If I live I'm open to rethinking it, but a read through his posts shows a solid attempt to lead the town and hunt scum 15. Kurumi- newbie town, unless he has expert coaching, kind of lurkerish, but almost certainly town. 17. Eiii- gave himself away earlier as I pointed out. He is mafia. 18. Meapak_ziphh- His posts ooze towniness, I tried looking for a scummy one, and couldn't find one. 20. Incognito- insane and disruptive. Absolutely town, scum don't play with such conviction and determination, the kind of fuckups he's led show him to be town. The mafia just isn't that reckless. 21. Chezinu- he is fucking Chezinu. I wish I could get a read on him. Whoever tied him to foolishness has a wicked sense of humor. 23. Ace- he is scum, and whatever he may say, he dosn't have a gun, or he would have used it already. When Incog flips green, someone should shoot him. Twice for good measure. 24. Caller- Town and a more than decent analyst. None of his posts are saliently scummy, and volunteering to die if he is mafia is ballsy as hell. 25. Fishball- goes from useless to more useful, makes me think he is town as this is the trait of a solid late game town player, who avoids the mafia's attention and then comes up with some solid contributions. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
1 of Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness, Chaoser, Barundar is scum. The rest are townies, or cleverly disguised mafia. My bet is chaoser Take this as a "fuck you" mafia for not killing me. Now I have to substantiate all that stuff I said in what was supposed to be my last post. Oh and ##Vote: Caller The list has spoken. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 22 2011 15:15 infinitestory wrote: uhh, do you mean Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness, Chaoser, bumatlarge, Caller, Chezinu, KillerSOS or perhaps Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness, Chaoser, bumatlarge, Caller or was the list heavily tinkered with? Day 1 incognito list. I should have been clearer INCOGNITO (5): Ace, infinitestory, Foolishness, Chaoser, Barundar | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Also we now know what the rose tinted glasses did, they let someone vote check and whoever got them checked the KillerSOS list. All that said we've caught a mafia everything else can wait. ##Unvote ##Vote: tnkted | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 23 2011 04:52 infinitestory wrote: GM, were you indeed targeted and saved? You should have gotten a notification if so. No. Now lynch that lying scum. I would have immediately claimed had I taken a hit. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 23 2011 06:18 deconduo wrote: Well its pretty clear that we caught one scum anyway. I'm just curious as to why the DT that checked him hasn't been pushing for his lynch. I think it was Baundar's Caller Godfather "traitor" ability, used for the good of the town. Meaning that we don't really have an alignment DT. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 23 2011 08:07 infinitestory wrote: Oh, in that case we do have a living Alignment DT! :D happy news ^_^ Can I request he check Caller tonight? If he finds him town he should let us know, so we know there is a framer at play. If he is scum then we can trust our list checks to be mostly reliable, at least at finding scum. If the DT would rather do something else then we probably have no choice but to lynch Caller tomorrow, which I would rather not do, as lynches for information are terrible play. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:24 deconduo wrote: Either way, Caller should be vigged tonight if we have one. I agree with this. I'd also really like it if a rolecop could verify chaoser's claim. As to all other DT actions, the risk of the framing godfather means we can't direct them. I trust them to do what they must. I'm considering saving my list check tonight and using a rolecheck instead. Thoughts? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 25 2011 10:21 Radfield wrote: I think Ace is about to get fucked. ^_^ That would narrow down the number of scum we need to kill. At worst it would make me reconsider my reads. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
##Vote: Caller Now would be a good time to claim. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
I rolechecked foolishness, I'm saving the last list check for todays vote. I'm not going to reveal what he returned, only that the remaining mafia should probably worry. (Or maybe I'm playing mindgames, who knows! ^_^) | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 25 2011 22:46 bumatlarge wrote: Oh here's an idea, wiggles checked the NRA member? That would explain why it triggered, and it would be a likely pick for town. Still don't know what LAT, the initials hes been putting in his posts, refer to. So maybe everyone should announce their checks just before night ends, so we may get somewhere. they would have to say it last second though, so mafia cant mess with the process. Righty? My guess is last and third word of every sentence, but I haven't gotten anywhere with that. Your NRA theory is interesting, my only concern is that a townie would do better to take methman than NRA member, as the NRA member makes punishes detectives as well as mafia. Should we encourage this person to claim? Or do we want mafia to run afoul of his rifle? Also, why are you discarding the possibility of a mafia vigilante? I think that would be a role mafia would not mind picking up, especially considering the fact that they have a piddling one kp. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 04 2011 03:27 Ver wrote: Mole: You are a townie...wait a minute. Initially given a normal townie role, but mafia is given his identity. After Night 2 ends, the mole receives his “Mole” role and mafia list. Mafia cannot PM him and he cannot PM mafia until he is formally inducted (day 3). There may be any number of moles. Mepak, moles were induced yesterday, not today. But you have a point, my past lists are rendered unreliable, and we can only judge actions that took place *after* the end of night 2 to judge people, as any previous town behavior might be due to the insidious nature of the mole. I'm pretty sure that the only clear townie at the moment is bum for having shot Ace, which he would not have done were he mafia. The rest of us must be judged on our behavior over the past day and night. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 26 2011 10:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: The lack of discussion is killing us. Once Caller dies we literally have no plan. I agree, theres no way for us to find the mole if we don't have activity and such to help us pin down scummy people. So, let me open this to discussion, what list should I be checking with my last listcheck? Should we consider a mass roleclaim now that we are approaching the endgame, or should we hold out on that? Lastly who of the remaining players do you think is most likely to be scum? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
As for who I want to lynch tomorrow, kita and Eiii are both targets that merit consideration, both are heavy inactives that are going to be hellish to analyze later on, as they have few posts. Foolishness, I'm glad to see you stepping up your game. As far as my list check, I'm considering using it on todays vote list to see how many mafia we have to worry about. Do people find this idea agreeable? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 27 2011 04:40 Foolishness wrote: As long as deconduo said he took bulletproof there's little point in arguing about it. If Radfield is indeed the mole, why would Ace check him night 1? That doesn't seem to add up so I think Radfield is in the clear. And I agree that GMarshal should check an old list in an attempt to narrow down the remaining mafia. If we could confirm 3 people or show that the mafia is in a pool of 3 people it'll make it that much easier for us. Also, Infinitestory said Eiii is the "same" as him. Wasn't this on day 3 when he would have turned up "different" if Eiii was mafia? Completely forgot about that tbh >_____> nvm then Eiii is in the clear. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Either way if chaoser wants to check me tonight he is more than welcome to. I'm sure it will set some people's minds at ease. I'd much rather he check one of kita or Eiii, but its up to him. As to which list I'm going to check its between the Day 1 Barundar and the Day 2 KillerSOS list. I'll decide which privately in an attempt to keep the framer (if he exists) from influencing anything. Maybe its just me being paranoid, but the idea that the mafia failed to grab a godfather role seems preposterous to me, I would think it would be a high priority role for them... | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 27 2011 09:14 Radfield wrote: You misunderstand GM. I don't think you're mafia, but I'm saying you could still be the mole. I don't think you lied about any lists at all, but keep in mind that last night(first night as mole) you did not use a list check, and instead role checked foolishness. Since the beginning of Day 3 you haven't necessarily done anything super pro-town(I haven't actually checked though, so correct me if I'm wrong). You are confused about when the mole kicks in. The mole is inducted the dawn of day ( after night 2 ends). Today is day 4, yesterday was day 3, so I would have been informed I was a mole before I made my list check results public. Its irrelevant though, not lying once in no way clears me, however, I am pointing out that it should at least lessen the possibility that I am a mole. Also as far as I know my lists are now retroactive, so it should be able to spot the mole if he voted in the list I am checking. @Eiii, nice to know you checked me night 2, correct? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
BTW chaoser, you should check one of Mepak, kita and Eiii, in my opinion. Either way, going to sleep now, night everyone. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
meapak radfield eiii kitaman one is scum, and foolishness and bum are cleared. Also take a care full look at those chaoser threatened the most, because it looks to me like scum chose a gradual loss over an immediate loss, this means that funnily enough Eiii and kita are at the top of the list of people to lynch today. I'll start with kita ##Vote: kitaman27 | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
The deal is if we do that we don't have enough lynches to kill everyone on my list, up to you guys, if you believe that my behavior post day 3 has been solidly enough town to believe me then don't and trust my list. If you think certainty is worth wasting a lynch then go for that, just remember whatever you decide don't change your mind later on, if you are going to trust me, then don't wait till we hit lylo and theres only one person left on a list alive to start questioning the list, lynch me now, when you can still sort of afford to. On to why I pointed out why chaoser was shot instead of me, its because I find it really, really weird, I understand why it makes me look doubtful, and that was the only logical explanation that occurred to me. Kita, why didn't you counterclaim when tnkted claimed medic? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
The police radio revealed that the killerSOS vote list had two mafia. Kurumi and tnkted were both on that list, they are both dead now. My second check revealed 1 mafia on that list. There *has* to be a mole in play. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 03:51 kitaman27 wrote: "And for the last ability you may ask me how many mafia voted to lynch a specific person (cannot use this on mayor election)." So you're saying you got one, rather than three? Should have read "one left" my bad. the actual result I was PMed was 3/10 mafia, again if you have a problem with it, lynch me, I'm happy to go, with that if it will stop you people from doubting me already, just be sure you can kill the one scum out of four people with two lynches. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 03:57 kitaman27 wrote: Considering we have less than 5 lynches to deal with, why aren't you opposed to having yourself lynched if it means it decreases our chances of winning? Because im afraid that every time we try to make a lynch out of that list the defense is going to be "oh GM isn't guaranteed to be town, so he could be lying, lynch him instead" I'm willing to deal with that, once, today, I'm not going to deal with that shit at close to lylo or lylo itself, at this point the mafia is going to leave me alive to keep from confirming the lists, so in order to avoid everyone making it an issue I'm willing to take the lynch. Or everyone can agree to not doubt the list and move on, one or the other, at this point the mafia is probably banking on getting the one or two people from the list other than themselves lynched and then lynching me at lylo. I'm not going to allow it to happen that way. Go for one or for the other kita, are you desperate enough to prove me right? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
##Vote:Eiii | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 06:35 Foolishness wrote: I have no idea why you guys are so ^.^ about the situation. as long as we lynch into the list we got this game in the bag, if kita is the medic the mafia has no choice but to kill him, which means that at lylo the last person on the list is the mafia. gg scum. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 06:42 Foolishness wrote: In which case we might not figure it out on time. If you think thats likely then lynch me today. The mafia is going to be arguing that line to try to avoid being lynched now that the game is solved, its their only bet at winning this. Look at my posts and general attitude post night2, if you think that makes me likely scum make a case and lynch me. It gives the mafia some odds of winning if we lynch me, so I'd rather avoid that, but I want to shut down the argument of GM's list is unreliable. Today. Either place faith in me or kill me, but I will not allow the mafia to try to break free any more. We win this game, today. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 07:25 Foolishness wrote: That's true, but Ace would not check Radfield night 1 if he was the mole. They had an NRA member, its possible he was making sure that Rad wasn't a DT or something. I don't think Ace checking him clears him, and if he did check him then making him claim makes perfect sense as it gives him an excuse for never getting shot. I'm not saying Rad *is* the mole, but we cannot afford to clear him based on Ace's actions, at least in my opinion. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 07:59 Radfield wrote: OK GM, I'm calling your bluff. We lynch you today to assure that the list is correct. I've gone through your posts and am building a case as to why I think you are the mole. Foolishness is right, it's unlikely that Eiii would have sent in his kill but not his role check. Possible but unlikely. ##Unvote ##Vote GMarshal I await with bated breath. Funny that as soon as I suggest you might not be 100% cleared you decide to "call my bluff". Bring it on. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
The rest of your posts are "Accusing" me of asking questions to make people think. That is very damming indeed mr Radfeild. So asking questions and refusing to accept things like giving the mafia a door out make me scum? This case is as strong as the case against Orange (my) by Blue (sandroba) in experimental mafia, meaning not at all. I apologized for being late because it is my habit in games to be around for day/night posts, and I felt like I was robbing the rest of the town of valuable time to discuss said results. Your case is laughable, lynching for information *is* bad play, I voted caller because there was evidence against him was damning, not for information. You have no case caller, you are upset that I put doubt on your "plan", because for all I know you could be the mole, this overraction to my doubting you makes me suspicious of you. This case is less convincing than caller's case on Kav, and we now know that that was trumped up case. Bring better evidence caller, last time I checked asking questions and trying to avoid falling into mafia traps was town behavior. If I were scum I would have lied day 3 and would now have a larger team, rather than being on my own. You however claimed you would bus your whole team to victory. If you are going to accuse me make your case more convincing than "he is apologetic and asks questions, oh and he is alive" | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 09:19 Radfield wrote: Another contradiction: he gives Bum a pass for making a pro-town move, and declares him a clear townie. Yet, he will not do the same for himself despite the fact that he made a clear pro-town move as well. Nor will he do the same for me, despite the fact that anti-town moves were made against me. Bum makes a pro-town move = Sure Townie GM makes a pro-town move = Not a sure townie Care to clear this contradiction up for me? Shooting a teammate as mafia is basically unheard of, no sane mafia player would do it when they could force us to waste a lynch on them instead. Its so strongly pro-town that its basically unthinkable to me that scum would do it Telling the truth about a list check, while also pro-town is an order of magnitude different from shooting mafia. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Also its my duty as a townie to defend myself, just look at XXXIX where townies just "shrug their shoulders" and die. That is not acceptable as a town play, sorry, but I will defend myself to the bitter end, that way the town can look over the list and be "hmm who insisted GM be lynched and bought the mafia a chance at winning?" and will have something to work with, considering they are going to need it since the game won't be solved. No hard feelings if you decide to go this route, but I want the town to lynch you next after I flip green ^_^ | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 09:37 Radfield wrote: All of a sudden because I attacked you I am now more scummy than Eiii or Kitaman, the players you were pushing as likely scum just a moment ago. That might just be the definition of an OMGUS. Sure its an OMGUS I agree, but its correct, since its a reaction to me casting doubt on your 100% towniness. Mafia love to work with "hey guys, I'm guaranteed town!" notice how I told everyone to doubt me anyway, the only guaranteed town is that proved by a DT or one who kills mafia, everyone else is simply more or less likely to be town. Oh and there was no contradiction with me voting Caller, I had one list with a top suspect and a list that had been narrowed down to one player who had to be scum, I was lynching someone I knew to be mafia and saving my other suspect for later while calling it out in case I died. Kita, I went for you because of the players on the list I thought you the scummiest, I didn't provide an analysis because I felt it wasn't needed, as long as we lynched from the list we were golden. It was my belief that Rad was about 70% town. His "perfect plan" however threw that perception I had out the window. Sorry but both you and Eiii were lurkerish in my mind. Either way let the rest of the town choose how they win or lose. Will they follow my plan and have a guaranteed win? Or will they give the scumteam enough wiggle room to save themselves? I cannot predict which path they will take, but I will be upset at the town if they manage to botch this game after all the advantages I handed out and with an insane number of information roles. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 10:13 Radfield wrote: So your assertion is that instead of lurking my way to victory, I decided to go on a random rampage against a random townie(not even the consensus scummy townies). Plan a) Lynch Kita, then kill foolishness, then lynch eiii, then kill bum. Now all i have to do is outtalk meapak into lynching you, which I can almost assuredly do(I just build a massive case today, why not wait till two days from now). Plan b) Stick my neck out and spotlight myself in an attempt to kill GM, (which would then solidify the list) instead of going after two extremely easy lynch targets in Kita and Eiii. Is this your reasoning for thinking I'm scum, because it's awful. If you flip green(5-10% chance) then I'll happily defend my actions from the wrath of the town tomorrow. But I am about as certain on you flipping red as I get. Beutiful misrepresentation of what happened. Here let me explain what *actually* went down. "GM claims a 4 person list, 3 lynches to win. Alright, the plan is to kill outside the list and at lylo lynch the last person on the list" "shit someone in the list claimed medic, I have to kill them, which means I need a new plan! I know, I'll kill kita or GM and make a plan that makes the town waste a lynch on the other one, rather than using him to kill the last person on the list at lylo/making him the lylo target." So you propose a plan that makes you survive endgame, by lynching me. When I call you out on it you make a really weak case calling me scum. Its not a gamble, you absolutely *need* to get the town to lynch outside the list to survive. Then you go with "well at least his list is confirmed, sorry town, but we cannot lynch me if we want to win" to squirm out of death. Its a brilliant plan, and probably the correct reaction to kita claiming medic, but I'm not letting you get away with it. If you are town then I don't know what is going through your head. @Town: You are at a juncture! Either lynch into the list and be guaranteed to win or lynch me then radfeild, and if rad is being an idiotic townie, find yourself at lylo, with two suspects. Its your call. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 10:21 Radfield wrote: So why did you directly contradict yourself: This is not " saving your other suspect". You went from opening the day by voting to him, to all of a sudden not really wanting to vote him off, despite the fact that it's YOUR listcheck. Not only that, but you add as an excuse that "lynching for info is a terrible play". Exactly at what point did lynching caller go from being about him being scum, to being about information? I *would* rather not lynch for information, but it was necessary we had to prove it one way or another, it is bad play but it was necessary, which is why I wanted a dt check, which we got, which proved him to be red. I don't see the contradiction, something can be bad play by policy and still be necessary | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 10:28 Radfield wrote: lol, you were always part of the list. At no time were you confirmed, bum and foolishness were. Lynching you is not "lynching outside the list" in any way, shape or form. Yes it is. Fact: there is a list with four players, one is scum 100% its Rad, kita, Eiii and mepak. we have three lynches. One of the people on that list can prove himself to be not scum/force the mafia to shoot him, so we have three people and three lynches. One is guaranteed to be scum. Lynching me leaves us with three people and two lynches. Three is oftentimes greater than two. So lynching me *is* lynching outside the list. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
it became a lynch for information when people said they were doing it to check the veracity of my lists, which is why I made the point that lynching for information is bad. Any other points you would like to bring against me? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote: Radfeild congratulations, you are one of the first people to successfully draw a semi-OMGUS vote from me. Valiant effort scum. I wonder if your efforts will pan out, if the town will be sheep. Or if they will choose to follow me to victory. Its a sad thing that I have no faith in the town abilities to read through my posts if you get me lynched and figure out your plan. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 11:02 Radfield wrote: Do you know why I die night 1 and 2 so often? It's because I put in the time, and check EVERYTHING that people claim: Not once, not ONE SINGLE TIME, did anyone bring up lynching caller to "check the veracity of your lists",between the time you so strongly voted Caller, and the time you decided that you would "rather not" lynch him. Then I misremembered, I was pretty sure someone said that the lynch would be used to prove my lists. I must be wrong then. In principle I'd still not lynch someone who may be framed if I can get a verdict either way. Although I do like that you went back and verified, it at least shows you have some commitment to the game. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 11:08 Radfield wrote: If you really want to get people to vote for me than build a case. You're sure right, I mean, you seem pretty sure? So it shouldn't be too hard to go through and find some scummy Day 3 and Day 4 tells. Compare my pre Day 3 posting to my post Day 3 posting. Figure out my motivations for the things I've been saying. Show my contradictions and scum tells! ACTUALLY DO SOME WORK! I did I fucking handed the town this game. the only way they can lose now is if they are stupid. You played a great game as mafia, but your desperate attempt to save yourself from the list check proves your scummy nature. I don't have to do work, I've already won. You are just trying to save yourself and buy some chance of winning. I'm not having any of it, even if I die the town has already won, since you had to oust yourself to get your lynch outside of the list of four. gg already, work is superfluous when you have the single most broken ability in the game and ten billion dts, you lost this when kita claimed medic, as you had even me fooled. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 11:26 Foolishness wrote: And before you say so, no I'm not going to reveal the plan as it would involve me revealing my role, and I would have to sit here and explain to you the 8-10 different scenarios that would result, all the while listening to you go "NO THE OTHER IS MAFIA YOUR SO DUMB". Not worth my time. You are confirmed town, so I'll trust you, don't reveal it, especially if it involves changing the tempo of the lynches. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 11:35 kitaman27 wrote: What is to trust? You already know his role, remember? But not his plan. I have no idea what that is, especially considering his role. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Either way, please do remember to protect foolishness tonight and to lynch rad in the morning. ^_^ | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 11:43 kitaman27 wrote: Opps I lied about being medic. ##Shoot GMarshal pew pew Sure thing, lynch radfeild today then and the game is in the bag! However I believe you are lying. Plus you didn't bold your kill... | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 11:52 bumatlarge wrote: See, this mole thing is so fickle. I'm just going to do whatever foolishness is doing. When it is just 1 scum left, and the whole town is revealed, it doesn't leave much of an opening for us to "figure it out" really, unless we tried to go by what dead scum's relation to the remaining players is, which can eventually get into WIFOM, (especially using Ace as a means of defending yourself Rad, sorry I can't stand behind that after I made an abysmal counter-analysis on him) This end game more or less leads us into "we will probably win" not we will win if we are a good town. We have to rely on a little bit of luck and our instincts. I'll read back on what Ace said about you rad, and I really think you wouldn't be a mole over GM, but I know jack shit. Eiii has become a pointless lynch, because I think the mole has to be GM or Rad, maybe kitaman. Hopefully that isn't a by product of two townies arguing with one another. Since GM's power is virtually useless now, and killing him does confirm the list, I don't see much reason not to. Lynching rad would be abysmal, because we haven't gotten enough meat to convict him, and lynching a BP at this point would be horrendous. Good luck kita, hopefully you get shot, or you manage to get a protect off tomorrow, either will lead us to a near certain win. And my apologies to GM, but you gave me permission! ##Vote GMarshal No hard feelings. As I said, I don't have much faith in the town anyway, we are too easily led astray. But please when I flip town lynch rad, ok? I don't want him to get away with this so easily. Plus if foolishness is to be believed he has won the game for us already. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 11:56 Foolishness wrote: It also relies on you not lying and not being the mole...minor details. ... ok I promise I won't criticize it if its solid, but can you reveal it to us, I'm honestly intrigued... if it lets the mafia sabotage it then don't tell obviously, but whatever it is sounds fascinating. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 12:05 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: GM at this point no townie should be defending themselves like this. I know I told incog that a townie wanting to die is stupid but at this point all townies should be willing to die. Foolishness has called for my death several times and I'd be more than happy to do so in order to prove my alignment. These last few pages have convinced me. sorry for being afk, I was at the movies -_- Each and every townie has a duty to fight for their lives. The closer to lylo we are the more important that is. its not just my life, but a wasted lynch. A lynch we need. I'm willing to die, but I'm not going to make it easy on scum to get me lynched. I was the first to say that if you want to get me lynched today is the day, but I refuse to just give up and let the enemy take a step closer to victory. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 12:22 Foolishness wrote: Or maybe GMarshal will tell you if you ask nicely Do you want me to? Because I'm really confused... | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Because role =/= alignment, I could be the mole. That's radfeild's entire argument. Apparently me not lying and asking questions means I'm scum ^_^ | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 12:28 Foolishness wrote: GMarshal never answered my earlier question: You know my role, can you sit and think of a way to guarantee the town to win? No, I really can't, but I'm obviously missing something. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 12:36 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Oh I am, I just need to flip town. Then if kita dies tonight town kills you. If kita lives town kills kita. What? Why are we killing foolishness? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 12:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Why not? Kill me now and the town wins. We have enough votes, let's do it. You are sure this wins us the game? 100% | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 12:52 Foolishness wrote: That's assuming GM is telling the truth. If thats the only variable then do it. I know I'm telling the truth. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 12:59 kitaman27 wrote: Last minute vote switches? Scum specialty. Sure the mafia team is GMarshal, foolishness and meapak oh... wait... | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
| ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
I *almost* had this. Damn you radfeild, night one kill next game I get mafia. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 13:03 Foolishness wrote: All as planned  So, what role where you trying for when you got vanilla? | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Reading is overrated anyway. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
@Ver. The mafia needed more KP, there was a retarded number of information roles out on the field. Also list checks are ridiculously powerful, I'm not surprised they got removed, those things screw over the mafia in ways I hadn't even considered. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
mafia QT, not that I got to use it mind you... | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 13:12 kitaman27 wrote: I'm shocked scum didn't go for the godframer. That would have been my first pick. Or caller gf or NKVD agent, anything that gets them less raped by DTs really... | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 29 2011 14:11 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Personally I would love for all games to be like this. Agreed, I also feel like I learned a lot, it was a really, really good game, and I want to thank everyone who played, and Ver/fw for hosting. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On May 30 2011 23:27 Scamp wrote: I personally would like to see Traitor and Village Idiot taken out, and all roles similar to that. I found it interesting that the game was balanced around the expectation of a traitor being taken, especially with moles active. If you took Traitor and you were a mole all along....well don't you feel silly? I guess you at least show up as townie for role checks, but still... But yeah, Villlage Idiot is just dumb. At least make it interesting in some way such as you need to predict when you'll die or some kind of restrictions of playstyle or whatever. Maybe a mafia game where it turns out everyone on the mafia team is a mole. Village idiot should punish the faction responsible for his death somehow, or it should be a competition role, e.g. there are three VI and only the first one to be lynched wins. After this game I can say I'm not a huge fan of the mole, its pretty much the same beef I have against recruiting roles, it sucks to have been playing towards one win condition full steam only to have it changed on you suddenly/ | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
On June 17 2011 09:32 Radfield wrote: Post it Ver, you know you want to... I'm sure he'll post it soon. | ||
|
GMarshal
United States22154 Posts
Just putting this here so anyone reading this thread in the future can easily find the post game. ^_^ | ||
| ||
