EPTTL Mafia XXXIX
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chaoser
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chaoser
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On April 28 2011 10:59 Zorkmid wrote: /in lets go! you just replaced out of sleeper cell mafia and now you sign up for another game...come on man... | ||
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On April 30 2011 04:24 Coagulation wrote: I did http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=210416¤tpage=3#41 You gotta wait till the game finishes before you can join another game -_- you know this...just cause Qatol is on leave doesn't mean the rules don't matter -_- | ||
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On May 01 2011 05:37 Forumite wrote: What is Jackals problem with Zorkmid, or does Jackal always aggro? Go read the ban thread | ||
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On May 04 2011 07:58 orgolove wrote: I'm really sorry. I'd like to /out this game, as Ver's pyp insane has just started. and I want to play in his game. Doubt this is happening dude, the hosts already did role distribution. | ||
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chaoser
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SCUM! | ||
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At the same time, why so much silence on the issue from people who were clearly present? Kitaman? You pop in to say that people shouldn't edit but you don't mention a single thing about Irish, a single thing about me, and a single thing about anything. What up? | ||
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On May 04 2011 14:30 kitaman27 wrote: Obviously people can change up their style game to game, but it can give us an idea how certain people respond to certain situations. Like for example, if irish was town in coag's game and laughed off or ignored an accusation, it would make me more suspicious of him in this one. a weak accusation*. Basically if he's generally trigger-happy on responding to basically nothing via an overreaction then I'd be less suspicious of him. Else, FoS. | ||
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On May 04 2011 13:08 Cthsazsa wrote: This is very interesting. Maybe Redtooth is using that as an excuse to get people riled up? Hmmm. I don't think this is much of an overreaction...It's the only post of his after the Irish thing happened. | ||
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doesn´t help finding the scum that are good at looking like scum If there's scum that look like scum, we'd find them easy. Go read past games but being active, looking for contradictions, for forced posting, for wishy-washy stance taking. Those are all usually weaknesses of scum. Scum obviously find it hard if you start to build a legitimate case against one of their own, even more so if you push them to take a stance on an issue. As the game goes on it's easier and easier to find connections between people and those who flip red when they die. Just post constructively, pressure people you find scummy, and you should be fine. Keep a straight head on your shoulders and a clear mind. Be on the look out for people posting things that aren't very helpful and generally talking in circles cause that's usually another scum tell too. @orgolove I think redtooth didn't actually play in those games, he just posted that he wanted in but cause he was banned, he couldn't play. @kitaman, what do you think about the various people coming to Irish's defense with weak chainsaws? Newbie townie or devious scum? | ||
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chaoser
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On May 04 2011 18:12 Forumite wrote: He does have a few points, people need to make constructive posts, even more so with a 30-player game. Also even this early it´s a good move to call out people on their scum-tells. There's no real such thing as a scum-tell per say. TL doesn't really do the MS "You said good job to medic when he saved someone, you're scum!" kind of deal but there are limitations to what mafia can and can't do. Or at least feel comfortable with doing. If you look at XXXVII, you'll see that mafia found it very hard to make cases against each other and that ended up catching a lot of them. If you look at XXXXVIII, you can see that mafia were decently wishy-washy. By wishy-washy I don't mean they changed their opinions on things, but that they changed them based upon nothing, merely to please the rest of town. In Simple Mafia, Town because Mafia were inactive and allowed town to dominate the discussion. Even so, you'll notice that most of the time it was town arguing against town, using weak arguments and trying to figure out alliances before anyone even flipped. That's bad play since you don't know how mafia will act towards each other. They could bus each other a bit, they could act friendly, or they might not interact at all. The point is that you should focus on a few people and then make judgements about connections AFTER the flip. On day one, conversation generation is the most important thing, even if it IS the 30th game we're discussing about lynching inactives or not. Pressure is also a good conversation generator and I know for a fact that GM's question asking helps too. Mafia wants town to have no direction and I'm sure in this game, where it's filled with mostly newbies, the mafia aren't going to go out of their way to help newbie townies. As such, redtooth get's +townie points in my book. Townies should be sure to ask coaches for help and read over guides conveniently localed here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=215574 | ||
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chaoser
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Why are making such a huge effort to appear pro-town chaoser? Excellent question sandroba. I'm sure it's a question that a lot of newbies ask and I know I've asked it so here goes. In the game of Mafia, yes town should be suspicious of all actions but there comes a point where it's no longer prudence and it's more paranoia. Look at the end of XXXVIII. Even though bum and DrH had proven time and time again that they were townie, at the end of the game, people still threw up weak "What If?" arguments against them. I, myself, was suspicious of Kavdragon for helping townies with his guide posts but was later explained to by Foolishness that Mafia would never go out of their way to do such a thing and when taken together with the rest of his actions, showed that he was clear green on Day 1. So what I suggest for everyone, and this is what I do, is to open up an excel sheet or notepad and make down every instance you have felt someone was acting "green" or if they were acting "red". Slowly amass said list so that in the end you can have a picture of what people are doing. A player that has done green things all game is more likely to be green than to be red. So the answer to your question is, if I'm town, how SHOULD I act? If being TOO pro-town is scum-like then well, lol, we're pretty fucked huh? All townies should want to look pro-town, because all townies can should be doing a better job at being pro-town than scum should. If every townie played pro-town and helped to develop a good environment (useful contributing, helpful advice, actively trying to scum hunt, using good logic) instead of one filled with fear, paranoia, and doubt, then catching mafia would be easy. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475 Go read Ver's guide about creating a good atmosphere here. For insinuating that I'm scum cause I'm acting "too-townie" is ludicrous at best and character-smearing at worst. FoS on sandroba. @chaos13...please answer kitaman's question about your statement. It's odd that you would say that about being associated with Irish. Townies should in general be ok with associations since they have nothing to hide while mafia don't want to be associated with each other. FoS List-o-doom Irish_Punk sandroba chao13 At the same time, I'll write more tonight after my final but I expect those people who've been on TL Mafia for a while to be contributing heavily and that means: Jackal58 redtooth aidnai GGQ Amber[LighT] kitaman27 ilovejonn | ||
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So the answer to your question is, if I'm town, how SHOULD I act? If being TOO pro-town is scum-like then well, lol, we're pretty fucked huh? All townies should want to look pro-town, because all townies should and can be better at being pro-town than scum can. If every townie played pro-town and helped to develop a good environment (useful contributing, helpful advice, actively trying to scum hunt, using good logic) instead of one filled with fear, paranoia, and doubt, then catching mafia would be easy. | ||
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I didn't say, "look, helping out newbies is pro town okay? OKAY?!?!? NOTICE THIS!!!" I said, I think redtooth has shown townie behavior and here is the reason why I think so (He was trying to help people). I don't need to copy redtooth's behavior to be pro-town lol and I don't think our posting has been similar at all aside from the general undertone of "Help new townies." His advice is more general while mine is very much indepth and explanatory. Trust me, I highly doubt mafia would go out of it's way to arm the opposition with weapons that would make their life more difficult. Mafia would rather have half the players inactive and the rest having no idea how to actually play the game. My advice has been solid. I have shown that I'm not afraid to be connected to multiple people. | ||
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On May 05 2011 00:56 Kurumi wrote: Drop Chaoser discussion as scum. He will be probably shot this night because he is good at Mafia and is staying really pro-town. It is good to see some lurkers waking up! I got a final in a few hours so I won't be posting for a while but this post is interesting. Why should the discussion about me be stopped? If anything it should continue so as to shed more light on people's alliances/alignments SHOULD i get shot tonight. Gotta provide more substance in your posting besides "he's good at mafia and he's acting pro-town" How am I acting pro-town? What do you think about the advice I've given? What do you think about Irish? sandroba? chao13's weird post? | ||
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On May 05 2011 01:00 Jackal58 wrote: Why? Why would you advocate dropping any discussions about who is scum? This post stinks like scum. Agreed. And with that, I'm off to finals. | ||
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chaoser
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Oh, and same questions to you Jackal | ||
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On May 05 2011 01:16 Kurumi wrote: I just note that his behaviour is different from Irish_Punk's and it looks pro-town,because of trying to make party going Your posting structure here and in general is clearly very different from your general posting structure: Kurumi Poland. May 02 2011 21:16. Posts 415 PM Profile Blog Quote # On May 02 2011 21:11 Gheed wrote: This post has a lot of truth in it. The standards dropped A LOT nowadays. The things that were free aren't and they're not that cheap. Companies go for quantity,not quality. The games that are coming out are a big disappointment for me,starting with Spore,ending with games such as COD series.. On April 22 2011 19:14 Kurumi wrote: 2Gate early pressure was a great build and You could expand safely behind this,though Blizzard saw that almost every top Protoss opened 2gate expand,lost nothing,most of the times denied FE of Zerg and made him not drone enough. I guess they won't bring back 2gate like it was. On April 10 2011 06:49 Kurumi wrote: Versus 15 hatch You might do Nexus First/1gate FE to make it even,if You can't succeed with pressuring Zerg. 2Gate Pressure like from Beta might work,remember the continous Zealot production,You can store chronoboost after 2 Nexus ones (it's basically 12 and 14 gateway)You'll probably make him get around ten lings and at least one spine crawler,while You can transition into 4gate,FE or whatever You feel like. On March 31 2011 23:35 Kurumi wrote: Zergs are the reactionary race,that's because they were designed like that. Zerg units counter something hard or die horribly. (Try using banelings vs high hp armored units or mutas versus phoenix). It's not like we can sprinkle a unit into EVERY composition and it'll work fine. (Like Marines or Stalkers/Sentry) Many early timings are not being used by Zerg because they can't break the wall-off without doing some sort of all-in. That's why they try to stall the early game and then in mid show some teeth. P and T have entire early game to dictate the course of the game. Why are you trying to misrepresent your competence after making a scummy post? | ||
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chaoser
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Assessment: I don't think it's more scummy than you, Kurumi or Irish/chao13 at this point. Just because he shot ideas down doesn't mean he's scummy, that's him expressing his opinion. At the same time, clearly what he stated isn't common sense/obvious since people followed along and focused on previous game experiences. You can't just look at one post and say OMG YOU'RE SCUM! It's behavior over time that tips you off on it. Like I said before, if you feel he is scummy, write it down on a notepad or excel sheet (which is an action I know MOST people DON'T DO!) and compare it to future statements. At this time and period though I think Kurumi is infinitely more scummy. | ||
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chaoser
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Kurumi's posting has been weird, it has been borderline trolling and he jumped very quick to defend and call for discussion about me to stop. That immediately made me very suspicious of him. He then continued to contribute nothing but nonsense in an obviously anti-town way. But does that make him mafia? Not necessarily. Many of you are new but we use to have a player, ocz3c who also had very absurd posts. He posted in such a way because he wanted to draw reactions out of people. Do we know at this point what Kurumi's goals are? No. Is the evidence against him strong enough yet to say he's definitely scum? No. But there is someone who has been acting a lot more suspiciously. Irish_Punk13 1) His reaction to my barely there pressure on him was an overreaction to say the least, I already mentioned this in another post earlier that you can go look up. 2) He said that he wasn't going to "...waste time on trying to convince someone that I'm not scum when I can actually be looking for them..." but he has yet to do much hunting. Aside from his post against AO: Okay, for now my vote is going on AirbladeOrange for his last post. I don't like the fact that he's okay with the idea of lynching town. Kurumi is making some great posts so far, and I think he's most likely town based off of his actions so far. The fact that you think it's okay to lynch him tells me that you're probably scum, so I'm putting my vote on you. which uses a very WEAK argument, he hasn't done much. (AO said he was essentially OK with a policy lynch on Kurumi, this has been stated by, more times than not, many townies over the 50+ games that have occurred on TLMafia) and made it out to be a HUGE scum tell. Like I said before, usually behavior is what gives scums away, not a single post. His blowing up of the post leads to my next point: 3) This weak argument was then used to chainsaw defend Kurumi (Definition of Chainsaw Defense) Irish_Punk immediately starts a bandwagon on AO after heats starts on Kurumi and look at how fast it grows with people basing their decision on that one single weak post. Irish_Punk 4:23 Kurumi 4:24 <---this is important KillerSOS 4:26 Why is Kurumi, who just previously said he was suspicious of Irish_Punk, immediately switching his vote to support Punk's FoS? He didn't even question it, he changed his vote from Irish_Punk to AO after only a minute had passed. 4) He is wishy-washy. On May 05 2011 03:54 Irish_Punk13 wrote: Okay guys, I just woke up, so I'm going to be reading over this a few more times so I can try to get a good post up. I should be posting up within an hour or so with something useful, but for now I have to go look to see how another game is going. Says he just woke up, will read and then post a GOOD post On May 05 2011 03:58 Irish_Punk13 wrote: EBWOP One thing I did notice while looking over this before is that Jackal58 isn't as active as he has been in other games that I've seen him in. Even in the one that I played with him before he was more active than he has been on this. I'm not saying that this definitely points to him as scum, but it is a little odd. Adds on a edit after 4 minutes had passed. That's not a Edit By Way Of Double Post. That's a new post. In it he throws suspicion on Jackal58 but backs off almost automatically. At this point, there is suspicion on Kurumi but the case against him isn't very strong. The case against Irish is much stronger and his flip will be very telling of Kurumi's alignment. ##Vote: Irish_Punk | ||
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On May 05 2011 08:30 Forumite wrote: I looked at his longest post. The other 3 are mostly oneliners. One thinks Chaoser is suspicious for doing an analysis early, the others looks like they are asking Irish questions, or asking questions about Irish. You know post count and length have nothing to do with actual scumminess right? Foolishness when he plays rarely posts but he makes his posts count when he does. You said AO posted four times only. At least he's taking stances in his posts. Kurumi hasn't taken a real stance at all. He said he was suspicious of Punk and then voted WITH Punk as soon as Punk started the AO wagon. I'm inclined to look at behavior, not post count or post length. Go read previous games please. You'll see that focusing on these issues do nothing to further the town agenda. I don't know if it's because you are a new player or what but I've got my eye on you. | ||
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On May 05 2011 08:48 Forumite wrote: Does this mean you think AO is scummy and I´m wrong in my analysis as I missed that, or that you only object to the way I look at posts? I don´t focus on short posts, but I still read them. What? I don't think AO is scummy, where do I say that in my post? I said your analysis is FLAWED. You're trying to spin a sweater out of a tiny piece of yarn. Out of the three, AO, Kurumi, and Irish_Punk, the latter two have acted way more scummy in both singular posts and behaviorally. Irish says he'll contribute but he always say "after I deal with this other game". He posts a weak argument against as heat starts to appear on Kumuri and immediately Kurumi votes with Irish even though he had previously said he thought Irish was mafia. Kurumi also tried to stop actual discussion over the topic of me, trying to buddy up to me. How is AO's posts WORSE than all that put together? | ||
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On May 05 2011 08:22 Forumite wrote: Of these three, I think we have the least to go on with AirbladeOrange, because he´s only got 4 posts so far. He looks more like a slow poster that made a few scumtells. Ohhhh, my bad dude, I thought you said he had the MOST to go on. 4 hours of sleep = eyes blurred lol | ||
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On May 05 2011 07:38 chaoser wrote: 3) This weak argument was then used to chainsaw defend Kurumi (Definition of Chainsaw Defense) Come on dude...I even linked to a definition of it | ||
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On May 05 2011 10:02 KillerSOS wrote: I'm not saying I am going to vote for him, just saying to me he has had the largest jumps in posting history and it show'd up on my nooby radar. This may be due to real life commitments, it's impossible to tell. Please don't misrepresent me lol. TL Mafia XXXIX 44 69 73 90 102 121 140 203 208 211 226 242 246 267 283 284 291 295 297 310 312 341 342 345 349 350 351 362 368 452 467 I feel like my posting has been pretty consistent. I had a final from 4 to 6 today that I already mentioned and aside from those 2 hours + time I spent previous to get to the test room and go over the material with friends, there has been no "jump". I have a 84 post "jump". There are players who have way larger "jumps". Get your facts straight buddy. That being said, I have no qualms with anyone bringing a good, well thought-out argument and discussion to me about my play an alignment. It's very important to not get complacent with trusting one guy and depending on one leader. | ||
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On May 05 2011 10:31 sinani206 wrote: OK, back from practice. + Show Spoiler [Redtooth] + He is probably the most confusing player right now. First he accuses Irish for no reason, but then takes it back, followed by a policy post. His excuse was that he was trying to see how quickly people defended Irish, but what if that was plan B? Redtooth hasn't posted in a while now, and this has kinda died down, but I just want to remind everyone about what happened earlier. Don't just throw things away as soon as he makes an excuse. + Show Spoiler [Chaoser] + Chaoser was very aggressive at first, of course starting with his accusation of Irish which was followed by additional aggressive posting. But then he calmed down a little. Is it because his Mafia buddies told him to, so as not to be targeted? That is the main question I have here. + Show Spoiler [Jackal58] + Aggressive, but in a neutral way. Nothing he has said swings me one way or the other. He plays very well. You get a star! lol. + Show Spoiler [Irish_Punk13] + May have overreacted to accusation, but that was probably just surprise... I don't blame him. He then blames AirbladeOrange, which isn't too suprising. More on him next. + Show Spoiler [AirbladeOrange] + Very suspicious with not much of a defense. Possible vote right here. + Show Spoiler [Cthsazsa] + Posting, but no real substance. Another possible vote. + Show Spoiler [Forumite] + Very analytical, no aggressiveness. + Show Spoiler [Others] + Nobody else really stands out enough or has enough posts for me to analyze their play. Just keep posting, people! So...nobody else stood out except those that you looked at but then you voted for someone that didn't stand out for you and not the one you have marked down as "Possible vote right here" (AO) On May 05 2011 10:39 sinani206 wrote: ##Vote: Kurumi Huh? I'm confused by your actions. Please explain. | ||
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On May 05 2011 10:45 DropBear wrote: ##Vote Beneather Care to explain your vote too DropBear? | ||
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On May 05 2011 10:51 sinani206 wrote: Very analytical, but at the same time, very aggressive. He doesn't give up. This causes me to believe he is a member of the Mafia. I will be voting for him today, Maybe you need to be reading the thread more... How can you say he is being very analytical (a positive good thing) and then go on to say that you think he is a member of mafia and vote for him when, on the flip side, you say AO is "Very suspicious with not much of a defense. Possible vote right here." and not for him? | ||
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On May 05 2011 11:00 KillerSOS wrote: How could standing out possibly be a good thing? Its only going to get you lynched or killed by the mafia. Nice play on my name btw, but I would prefer KillerSOS Also my whorish posting can be somewhat explained by my lack of interest in working on my paper, therefore I am obsessively F5'ing the thread. I'll be up all night finishing anyways... Actually I agree with Jaminz's recently written post about you. The object of mafia FOR TOWN is not to stay alive till the end. It is to try to find mafia. And to do that you take stances on issues and you fight for them. We're not trying to say another 3 years in congress. However, it IS the job of the mafia to stay alive till the end. I've been standing out all game and I probably will be killed but I'll do some god before I go. FoS KillerSOS. | ||
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Irish_punk Kurumi KillerSOS sinani206 (You need to explain yourself) | ||
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On May 05 2011 11:10 KillerSOS wrote: That is an interesting way of putting things. I'll allow you to think of all the possible roles in this game before blatantly explaining how you are wrong. The way you make it look like you are a positive to get killed and in the same statement giving me a FoS is too easy of a lead for any potential mafia to use. Simply put if you were to die tonight, by this line of reasoning I must be mafia. That seems a bit too forward than seems reasonable. I never said said that if I die tonight that you are mafia. I'm just saying that town wants to take stances. I'll back off for now. | ||
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On May 05 2011 11:11 jaminz wrote: Are you saying you're a blue? That's a really dumb thing to say either way. ....I was hoping you wouldn't actually post this btw... | ||
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On May 05 2011 11:23 Jackal58 wrote: Stop for a second guys. Everybody that has been placed on your individual scumlists are pretty much noobs. If you think Node put together a scum team of all noobs you need to rethink who you are pushing. GGQ where are you? WIFOM, I only got four people in my List-O-Doom. I really don't know how many in them are mafia. Personally I think Irish is mafia and his flip will tell me more about Kurumi. They are so tied together it's not even funny at this point. I'm more willing to give sinani benefit of the doubt and assume he just didn't read the whole thread and made shit up to look like he was contributing since he's a new player. That does mean that he needs to step it up though. Waiting on him to see what his response is. | ||
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On May 05 2011 09:47 VarpuliS wrote: lol. I'm really suspicious of Kurumi right now. Reasoning is coming momentarily (within 20 minutes) Sup Varpulis. Still have that reasoning? | ||
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Is there a possiblilty that the US didn't actually go to the Moon? Yes While those are extreme analogies to your questions, the logical fallacy behind them are the same. While there is a CHANCE that it is possible, there is a BIGGER and more well supported CHANCE that Irish's scummy actions are just that...scummy actions. Your defense is essentially a roundabout stretch. Instead of thinking about it in a straight forward manner (Scummy actions=scummy player), you put forward this more complicated explanation: "It's not that he's acting scummy cause he's scummy. It's cause he's inactive and disinterested in the game." Aren't you basically making excuses for players acting scummy? You say we should not waste time on this. So how would we go about catching scum and not "wasting massive amounts of time"? You've yet to put forward anything to focus on (Saying you FoS me but that we shouldn't vote me just yet) Let's be truthful here, this post was motivated by a desire to discredit me and paint me in a negative light, not because you ACTUALLY think the case against Irish is weak. You first thought, hmm, I don't like Chaoser's posting and then added on this weak argument on Irish to try to give it legitimacy. If we were to use your logic, we could hand wave anyone's actions as "not interested so he made a shitty argument that was not only based upon false premises, but then immediately started a bandwagon." and no mafia would ever be caught. In regards to active lurking, do you understand what the concept of lurking even means? It means giving useless information and not actually taking a stance on anything. I've taken multiple stances, called people out, tried to promote inactivity amongst the vets, and put pressure on many people. I've helped create a pro-town environment. What have you done? Nothing. Sinani's "analysis" post is the most contradictory post I've ever seen. He says he's suspicious of AO but gives no reasons why and then votes Kurumi. When I catch him on it, he says that he forgot and then says Kurumi has been analytical and doesn't give up. I've been analytical and aggressive (both, by the way, which are generally POSITIVE), why didn't he vote me? Even if he's not reading the thread with much detail, to say he's voting for someone due to them CONTRIBUTING TO THE CONVERSATION WITH ANALYSIS is ridiculous. To try to say a complete logically fallicy is due to inactivity is just WRONG in so many ways. Either way, I neither said I was definitely sure sinani was mafia nor did I say that I had found half of the mafia team. I made a LIST of those that I found suspicious. The people on that list will continue to be evaluated and either be kept on or taken off as events arise. My attention has been very focused (Irish) and the rest are me responding to things people say, as they say them. Should I only respond to issues regarding Irish and after that's resolved, to start noticing other things? No. Your argument to try to defend Irish is weak and your true motive to discredit me is seen. I completely support your stance that people should approach me more warily though but I disagree with the way you have gone about doing it (weak argument, convoluted logic). I still support the Irish lynch though I see a lot of people are for the Kurumi lynch. Either way, they are tied to each other via the chainsaw defense into vote switch of support that if one flips red, the other is sure to flip red. At this point I am 70% sure Irish is red. | ||
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Except I have focused on him? There's a certain thing called reading the air. I've already posted my thoughts on Irish, barely anyone responded to it and everyone seems to find it better to lynch Kurumi. I already consider both of them to be scum based upon behavior (Kurumi says to stop talking about me and 100% supports a lynch of Irish, AO accuses Kurumi, Irish comes in and chainsaw defends Kurumi with AO, Kurumi IMMEDIATELY switches votes onto AO) In this situation, whether we vote Irish or Kurumi, doesn't matter since 1) Both of them are acting scummy 2) Both lynches will be telling of the other person's alignment. The reason I push Irish's lynch is because I am more confident about his lynch over Kurumi's (70% sure vs 60% sure). Go reread KillerSOS' posts. People think he is scummy because of his line "Why would I want to be lynched, I don't want to die." Go reread his posts and decide if he's just a simple newbie or red. Either way, we can discuss his lynch tomorrow, after the night. About Irish. At the end of the day, whether you think he is mafia or not, he hasn't come back yet to defend himself at all. He has yet to explain his "Kurumi has made excellent analysis statements" and he has yet to explain his quick sudden suspicions onto AO. He literally popped in, said almost nothing, and then hasn't posted since. You're damn straight I find that scummy as fuck. I quote this line way too much but Ace, when he was helping coach Team Melee said: Why would you side with someone that isn't even defending himself? On January 10 2011 11:52 Ace wrote: Sometimes it's just better to think of a simple answer. You have no idea what the Mafia know and don't know their motives. Hence it's just a simple decision on who is more believable here. About Kurumi. Kurumi is tied to Irish and you can see in his crazy convoluted posting that he's still trying to push the lynch off Irish. On May 05 2011 21:55 Kurumi wrote: It flipped so wrong,but so good after all. My mistakes and weird play created a bandwagon which is such an easy way for scum to push lynch. That's ok. About my hyperactive posting: I was really pumped out for my first Mafia game on TL,don't get me wrong but I wanted to flip out as best as I could,horribly failed though. The biggest concern now is that I generated some kind of defence for Irish_Punk13 which was not my intention,also I got connected with him. Even if You lynch Irish and he flips out Mafia I am DEAD. If You lynch me,I am DEAD. Who else can You lynch? Well,entire society is now focused on me,Irish,AO. It is very easy to make another same analysis post about how my or those two posting was,just take a note that does not certainly mean someone wants to help You,but just to show that Mafia cares to lynch someone who isn't them. My derail wasted a lot of Your time and I am sorry for that,I might meant it,but I did not think that it would turn out to be discussion number 1. Bandwagon is ready Scum,buy Your tickets,I am already cursing at You. No where in that post does he address the Irish issue. He doesn't explicitly defend him but he does insinuate that both of them are town. He passes off all the conversation on them as "scum forming an easy bandwagon". He states: I set the traps already,just waiting for prey I tried making myself easy Day 2 lynch to try to reveal Scum,but I pushed it too hard,thus it is highly likely I will die this Day 1. but previous to this stated: My mistakes and weird play created a bandwagon which is such an easy way for scum to push lynch. You can't just forget about my earlier mistakes So did he PLAN to act as an easy target to draw mafia out to band wagon him or was it just mistakes? He's wishy-washy here. Either state that your posting was planned all along or that your posting was "mistakes", stick to a statement, not both. | ||
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On May 06 2011 00:38 Kurumi wrote: Redtooth The plan was to make me an easy target for bandwagon,sadly I made some mistakes thus making me VERY easy target to bandwagon a day before I wanted it to happen. The Irish thing is just a lie repeated by someone I'd need to look for. My vote for Irish was just a blind vote for a person who came in,left us for a while,call it a poke or whatever. When he came back not only he started contributing so I could unvote him for now,but AO jumped with his "Dead townie good townie" thing. Who did you want to look for from the "Irish thing" that was a lie? First you say you were using it to look for someone and then you're saying it's a blind vote. Why did you wait a full day to reveal that you had this plan? Why do you consider your actions a mistake? Like you supposedly wanted, a bandwagon formed, so what was the mistake? What are you opinions on Irish saying that you had put forth good "analysis" when you hadn't yet? | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jEcjA.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QrdnS.png) | ||
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On May 06 2011 12:46 redtooth wrote: Hey I'm redtooth. I told you so. Told you so what? I said I was more sure Irish was mafia than Kurumi was. Should have lynched Irish over Kurumi. Either way, it's day one. I'll rethink everything tomorrow. | ||
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On May 06 2011 12:55 redtooth wrote: That "told you so" wasn't directed exclusively at you. But I'll play along. Wasn't part of your argument that Kurumi and Irish are linked mafia? I mean one of the most incriminating things you said about Irish is that he chainsaw defended Kurumi and jumped to his rescue. I thought we pretty much established that you were fine with Kurumi lynch since he was probably the same alignment as Irish? I thought Kurumi was #2 on your lynchlist? Don't try to distance yourself now that it seems bad. No more safety plays plz. Let me reiterate once more: FoS on Chaoser for pursuing safe protown-looking lynches on obvtowns Apparently he was only obvtown to you...You can't deny that in the end, even you thought Kurumi was mafia, you even said you had to re-evaluate him. I'm not trying to distance myself, I said I would rather Irish be lynched over Kurumi. I still stand by that. Yes, the chainsaw defense falls through now but that still doesn't explain his inactivity and non-willingness to respond to questions about his statements. He's disinterested in the game? 10 bucks says he starts showing signs of life tomorrow and a lot more interest. | ||
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On May 06 2011 13:14 redtooth wrote: @Chaoser - If anything you should thank me. If you really are green, I just saved you from an obvious stacked nightkill haha. My friend, live one more round and redeem yourself. Yeah yeah -_-;;. You know that feeling where you're REALLLLLLLY sure of yourself and then it's like...lawl...I don' goofed? Yeah... | ||
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Some of those points leave no wiggle room. "No more than 4 quotes"? "All new arguments can't be linked to old arguments"? Mistakes on one part of the assessment of a player doesn't mean the rest of it isn't true. Let's instead view these as "Guidelines" and not "Hard Rule" a la Pirates of the Caribbean. To restrict people so much is damaging, especially considering the subjective nature of arguments and getting people to agree with them. That being said, can you give your thoughts on who you think is scum? You haven't been really doing that at all. Town's been doing fine so far. It's not like making a mistake day 1 mean town is fucked. We have a good atmosphere and people are taking stances and making arguments. That's better than almost all the town's I've been in where day 1 was spent discussing whether we should lynch inactives or not and then lynching an inactive player. This is definitely NOT the worst game you've ever played in. Hyperbolic statements don't help. I ain't going to write "I, chaoser, blah blah blah". I will however, proposition this: Amber[Light] has been playing lurker-ish I'll come back to the Irish issue once he's posted and responded to our questions to him. Anyway onto Amber. Amber is a vet player, and he generally posts a lot. Not just posts a lot, he also usually very active in calling people out and making FoS's on people he thinks is scummy. Except this game he hasn't. Most of his posts have been either asking or answer questions; in fact, out of his 5 total (game relevant) posts in this thread, he's pretty much only asked and answered questions in 3 of them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#426 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#427 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#439 In the two posts where he actually tries to take a stance on someone (In this case Kurumi), he pretty much says the reason he's voting for kurumi is because he wants information. He never outright says that he's suspicous of kurumi, just that: Chaoser has really been digging deep into Kurumi and hasn't been letting up against other players. I almost want to see Kurumi flip to see how much we can trust his analysis. and before, he questions where the Kurumi flip will lead: Back to you Airblade... My question is do you think creating a chaoser vs/with kurumi vision is going to get us somewhere? Clearly he doesn't really support the Kurumi lynch but when questioned on if he actually believes the vote though, he responds to redtooth with: He's using a lot of diversion tactics and getting really defensive to the point where he was analyzing players that were either targeting him or easy pins for inactivity. It seems like it's more pseudo-analysis than actual content. You know, posting just to post. Which seems like a throw-away reason. For that, I ask that Amber start to post more. His excuse that he's at work and so he can't do much is nulled by the fact that he generally posts a lot anyway as can be seen in insane 1, and insane 2. He hasn't contributed much to the discussion even though he's clearly caught up to speed and has been reading the thread. This same sentiment is also applied to GGQ. He gives the advice to DropBear: There was no need for a PbP analysis here, you just needed to tell Lyter to post more and explain his vote You need to better explain your reasoning for voting Kurumi (Pretty much that he was acting like serejai aka trolling and so he's probably scum) and why you're not posting as much | ||
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The fact that you are calling out Amber for voting Kurumi is SUPER scummy because no townie has the guts to call out someone for doing something they themselves advocated VERY hard for ("60% chance flipping red" iirc). I'm calling him out on the fact that he has SHITTY reasoning for voting kurumi. And that he hasn't contributed at all. How is that scummy for me to do? I thought Kurumi was scummy for GOOD reason (The perceived chainsaw defense from Irish, his quick switch, his god awful plan that made no sense, his nonsense post) when Amber doesn't even take an actual stance on Kurumi. You can't be calling me out as scummy for asking Amber to contribute more...that's just ridiculous. | ||
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FoS? Vote? might we expect a fullblown analysis with an accusation soon? I must say I look forward to it if you do it. Amber is certainly a scummy player and I plan to push his lynch today, but I can't tell if you're serious about him from this post. Of course I'm serious? I'm saying that he 1) hasn't posted much and 2) hasn't said much of anything. I'm saying that he needs to post more or else I'm going to be going after him. That's what I'm saying. | ||
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People always say that analysis at night is BAD and yet if you look at the best people who play the game (Ace, Foolishness, Ver, Qatol) they do a lot of their analysis at night. So I really don't buy into this let's not talk for 24 hours guys. | ||
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On May 07 2011 04:34 sandroba wrote: @chaoser No, we are discussing a plan to help improve the quality of the thread. You are trying to shut it down, instead of contributing to improve it. That's suspicious yo. @redtooth I don't play this game professionally and the whole point of playing mafia for me is having fun, else I wouldn't be playing it. I can pretty much guarantee that everyone else here feels the same way. I don't know why you are assuming everyone here is not having fun. I for sure am. If people were not having fun they would not be posting here, they would just ask for sub. Contributing to improve what?!!? There's no need to improve anything. If there was a need to actually put forth guidelines you don't think previous town would have done it? There's no need to place in an artificial system when an organic one already works. I'd tell you to go PM Ver, Foolishness, Qatol, Ace, etc. about the discussion being had right now except that's going outside the game. You have no idea how ego-driven this whole issue is and looks like. | ||
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On May 07 2011 04:39 redtooth wrote: We're arguing semantics here. "Fun" to me is giggling and trolling and generally messing around. "Enjoyment" comes from enjoying the game with the primary source being the satisfaction of winning. If you go back to page 1, Node states clearly "Play to win. You have been warned." I'm not attempting to shut down your hunt of scum, just raise the quality. I'm not attempting to directly ruin your enjoyment, just trying to make sure that its enjoyable for me (who really wants to win) and for the less active (who really don't want to wade through shit). Where is the shit? Seriously? You know what shit is? Shit is spending half of day arguing about inactives. Shit is spending half of day talking about whether night should be spent doing analysis or not. Shit is spending half of day talking about the merits of suggesting blue action lists. We've had a VERY productive day. People pointed out good cases against sinani, Jackal might be onto something with Cthsazsa, Irish's case still stands, and people are starting to look at Amber. There's a shitload of GOOD ANALYSIS out there. Whether you agree it's good or not is your OPINION. It's not a FACT. What you're doing right now is shit. Go analysis someone, cause you haven't done that all game. You keep talking about it, but you haven't done any. You've been going on about me all game and I think that's more ego driven than anything else. I helped build a good town atmosphere, I don't know what you've done. | ||
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On May 07 2011 13:23 AirbladeOrange wrote: I think there's a decent chance of that between Chaoser and Redtooth, one of them is mafia. I think someone else already said that but I agree. I'm still leaning toward Chaoser being town and probably Redtooth mafia. I think the mafia are playing to this killing active veteran jackal and aidnai as well. KillerSoS I don't quite understand. He was already under a good amount of heat. Unless they are trying to make a guy like jaminz a lynch target. Sorry I haven't been posting but my internet went out at 4 this afternoon and I just got access cause I'm at the library studying for finals. They killed KillerSOS cause he let slip BIG TIME that he was blue. He said in one of his posts "Why would I want to stand out? I don't want to die" and then later he said "think about what other people besides red want to stay alive." Mafia already knew he was blue at that point I'm sure. Either way, moving on, Amber, so you're basically saying that you have 1) good scum hunting skills as shown in Insane 1 but then 2) You don't use them and you lurk when you're mafia like in Insane 2? On the Kurumi thing, you're basically saying that you bandwagoned right? While the votes were split off, it was like 13 votes on Kurumi and Irish had the next most amount of votes at 4, so there wasn't really going to be much of a chance, not at all a dangerous situation I feel like. Either way, who are your top three suspects and why? | ||
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Just putting these here before Chaoser goes on his anti-Amber campaign. I would like to stress that Chaoser is tunneling me. When did I ever tunnel you? I asked you to step up your posting and give better reasons to why you voted Kurumi. Your posts on him essentially boiled down to "I'm bandwagoning cause I'd afraid people will switch votes and get the lynch off of him" when really there was no need to, he was at 13 votes, the closest other lynch was at 4. I also asked, which you then avoided, the question of, since you showed great scum killing abilities in Insane 1 (you even admit this yourself in a post) and so you are valuable, why haven't you given good analysis yet? Also, you said that you lurked a lot in Insane 2 when you were mafia, which is what you are doing here, can you please explain your behavior. Please stop tunneling Chaoser. I'm not trying to point my FoS onto you, yet. Then you say, stop tunneling me or else I will say you're mafia? How is that logical at all? What do you think about Irish? What about sinani? | ||
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On May 08 2011 01:52 chaoser wrote: When did I ever tunnel you? I asked you to step up your posting and give better reasons to why you voted Kurumi. Your posts on him essentially boiled down to "I'm bandwagoning cause I'd afraid people will switch votes and get the lynch off of him" when really there was no need to, he was at 13 votes, the closest other lynch was at 4. I also asked, which you then avoided, the question of, since you showed great scum killing abilities in Insane 1 (you even admit this yourself in a post) and so you are valuable, why haven't you given good analysis yet? Also, you said that you lurked a lot in Insane 2 when you were mafia, which is what you are doing here, can you please explain your behavior. Then you say, stop tunneling me or else I will say you're mafia? How is that logical at all? What do you think about Irish? What about sinani? Amber has been skimping by on almost nothing and acting very scummy as can be seen in my previous post. As such, ##Vote: Amber[light] | ||
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On May 08 2011 03:35 sandroba wrote: @chaoser are you planning on posting any further analysis about Amber[Light]? I'm torn between voting him or cthsazsa right now. Yeah, for now, my vote is on him. Waiting for more posts from him at this point. | ||
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On May 08 2011 03:43 ilovejonn wrote: Seems to me beneather's wagon on Kurumi was to please the majority of the people in the case Kurumi actually flipped scum, therefore he did not vote on his only explained scum choice, ie; Cthsazsa. So you're saying beneather's vote on kurumi is affected by him hoping kurumi would flip scum but if beneather was actually scum then he'd already know that kurumi wasn't? I'm confused by this logic. How can beneather be scum if he's basing it on "in case kurumi actually flipped scum"? He would already know? | ||
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On May 08 2011 04:29 ilovejonn wrote: In that case, would you not think Irish would get modkilled as well? Exactly, that's why I'm not paying much attention to him until he addresses the questions that are currently being given to him. At this point, what do you think about Amber and the points brought against him? | ||
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On May 08 2011 04:35 ilovejonn wrote: I am not familiar with Amber's play. But it seems to me he does seem to lurk a lot. However, based on his activity levels and the limited posts he has made, it seems to me he is definitely hiding something. But from the posts I've read, the posts are not anti-town, more like a natural defense to accusations brought against him. If you know what I mean I would not want to say more. I'm talking about his contradictions. He said that he is a very good scum hunter and suggests that we don't vote him. But he hasn't been hunting as much as he did in Insane 1. His reasoning for voting Kurumi is very scummy as I noted before and he is very lurkerish, much like he was in Insane 2. He went threatens me not to "tunnel" him or else he will FoS me, a very scummy move when I wasn't even tunneling him. | ||
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Amber said redtooth was possibly town. If Amber is scum (which you are now claiming), and redtooth is town, why would he defend redtooth? On top of that, if you think Amber is scum and he is defending redtooth, won't that make you even more suspicious of redtooth? Bussing happens all the time. It's not the motive that really gives it away so much as how someone goes about defending or attacking someone. | ||
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@chaoser I find it amusing that you ask for my opinion on cthsazsa but have never posted one yourself. Also, it is interesting that you claim my FoS doesn't have an argument attached to it while yours against Amber amounts to similar content as mine against Sandroba. I think cthsazsa deserves a check. He's a newbie and has spent a lot of time mostly defending himself which has taken up a lot of town time. But I don't think at this time he's a threat to town. He is posting in a consistent manner and he will continue to post as such so there is time to re-evaluate him. I say this because I've seen many a townie do what he does. He got caught up in a vet being suspicious of him and kind of has been occupied by it since forever. I did the exact thing the first mafia game I played. Ace called me out and I was medic. I ended up joining a PM group made up of all mafia aside from me and got killed. At the same time, I've seen newbie mafia play like him as well. So for me, he's still on the fence. I think his voting pattern as the game goes on will be the most telling thing about him, aside from DT check. At this moment I'm more worried about vets we aren't contributing as much as they should, offering flawed arguments and generally acting scummy. That is Amber[Light] I already talked about some of his inconsistencies in terms of him talking about why he voted for Kurumi to his weird response to my pressure. For the people talking about Jackal's vote on Cthsazsa like it actually means anything at this moment, then I'd also like to point out that aidnai was suppose to post a damning analysis post on Amber today. Either of the two points isn't very telling though since mafia could have planned their hits to throw suspicion on townies. Either way Amber's play has been way more worrisome to me than cthsazsa's. Amber is a vet and so it's less excusable than cthsazsa's play is in terms of scumminess. My recommendations are for a DT to check cthsazsa tonight, to lynch Amber, and to day shoot Irish if he shows up and doesn't give a legitimate reason for his actions as well as his inactions (not posting for over two days now). If Irish doesn't show up then he can just get modkilled . | ||
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On May 08 2011 14:19 DropBear wrote: Stuff about Orgolove DropBear, what are you opinions on Amber, Irish, Beneather, and Cthsazsa? Let's focus on them and leave orgolove for another day. | ||
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On May 08 2011 15:00 DropBear wrote: I'll give you that in detail later. I'm leaving in a minute and won't be back for about 8 hours. In short: if you read my posts you'll see massive posts on Beneather and Cthsazsa. Irish and Amber, not sure. What is wrong with what I have said about orgolove? Because we can deal with orgolove another day. So far we're looking at four people, all of whom people think are scummy and have decent analysis on. Let's not offer too many lynch targets let mafia just ride on random ones and end up with nothing. I'd prefer there were only two lynch targets since then mafia HAS to take a stance one way or another but I'll be fine with 3-4 right now. I saw your massive posts on Beneather and you basically looked at three of his posts and says that he's contributed nothing. Ok, thats fine, but mafia don't do that. Mafia don't not contribute. Mafia try to LOOK like they're contributing but they really aren't. This applys to orgolove as well. He's not TRYING to look like he's contributing, he's just straight up not. Mafia aren't inactive like beneather or Kenpachi is and they're not posting their ass off like redtooth is. They're in that middle region where they look like they're contributing with long posts but ultimately it's all fluff. Mafia aren't INACTIVE, they are LURKING. They know what's going on and they'll jump in from time to time to post something with little substance and be wishy washy on their logic for voting. | ||
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On May 08 2011 15:19 DropBear wrote: Alright, lets keep our lynch targets to two or three. You say mafia aren't inactive like Beneather, so lets remove Beneather. By your same logic, Irish_Punk13 cannot be mafia. Lets look at Cthsazsa, Amber[Light] and Orgolove. Nah Irish is different in that he's under questioning and he's not posting to respond. He says that he's not logging in cause he forgot his password except you can retrieve and change your password. He also has access to the TL Mafia IRC which I've seen him frequent before a lot so he could have asked one of us to ask a mod for him. He's still on my scum list. Either way he'll be modkilled if he doesn't vote and if he does vote/respond to the thread you can be sure he'll be under intense pressure. | ||
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On May 08 2011 15:30 DropBear wrote: Plus if you think he's going to be modkilled, why bother with Irish at all? Why not leave it until he comes back? Orgolove is here now. Orgolove has done these things recently. If Irish comes back, lets look at him then. See with orgolove, he's bandwagoning, but he's bandwagoning without even trying to hide it. For someone who should be considered an old player of mafia, I doubt he'd be playing the way he is if he's mafia. This is WIFOM at this point but mafia want to hide what they're actually doing so if they're going to bandwagon, they're going to make some long bullshit reason for why they agree with a vote and then vote to make people think, wow, this guy is REALLY contributing even though they're not. I'd say he's another potential DT check at most, though he looks like a bored townie to me at this point. | ||
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So you finally do agree that this thread is crap. Whatever happened to your "NOTHING IS WRONG WITH THREAD YOU COCKY COCK" statement. Imagine if everybody followed my initiative. Life would be so much easier. The thread is not crap, the voting is crap. You know how easy it is to see townie in all of this. Everyone is making huge analysis on people, you'll be damn sure mafia ain't going to be comfortable with this. They might make some half-hearted bullshit post up since they can just sit back and relax but that's to our advantage. They'll post weak arguments that are half-assed and we can easily catch them on it Mafia are going to be the ones lurking and not contributing much, not contributing out their ass. You can think I'm mafia all you want but then you're just ignoring people like amber and ilovejohn. I can't believe you're going after kenpachi....even BC stopped trying to read him, he's not a good lynch at all. It wasn't that I suspected Kurumi. It's that I suspected you, Chaoser. I was right to make the move I made. So....you go along with his lynch to throw dirt on me? How is that a legitimate reason for voting for him again? At least redtooth ACTUALLY thought I was mafia and voted for me. Your vote on Kurumi didn't count for shit, he was going to be lynched either way so yeah, you weren't right to make your move....And then the rest of your defense is a pure "I tried to help town" when really, no, you just searched, opened a bunch of tabs and copy pasted quotes, something anyone can do. You didn't even try to give analysis, you just said, here, take this for what it's worth...looks like a whole lot of contributing without actually contributing. And then you OMGUS me? lol ok. | ||
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He was wrong about KillerSOS. There has to be suspicion, if not ramification, for these obvious (except KillerSOS) and blatant misreads. I made it CLEAR in thread that I thought KillerSOS was blue. I even told you to go back to read his posts and see if he was "newbie townie" or "mafia" hoping to not use the "blue" word. He was wrong about Kurumi (60% positive). He is likely wrong about Irish as well (70% positive) .My read of Kurumi is mostly based upon my reads on Irish. Either way Irish is on the way to be modkilled. 5 bucks he posts/votes a few minutes before day ends. You must admit, his disappearance after being under extreme pressure is suspicious. The bandwagon being made on Amber makes some sense, I can see where he is being suspicious. The bandwagon being pushed by Chaoser makes no sense. So you're saying that Amber is scummy but since I'm the one pushing it he's not? If it was anyone else you'd take a longer and harder long at it? Why don't you go read Amber's recent posts where they go on long and hard but they're a whole lot of fluff that could have been said in a lot less lines. | ||
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@chaoser: Sell me why Amber is a better lynch than Cthsazsa. Earlier you said lynch amber and dt check Cthsazsa, rather than the other way around. Any particular reason that was the case? Cthsazsa is a newbie, and he's pretty much been satisfying himself with defending himself when Jackal, a vet, called him out and has been doing such since. It's a never ending cycle. I'm less sure of him being mafia because he's doing what a lot of newbies do. What he's not doing is trying to pass himself off as a productive and contributing person to town. That is, however, what amber is doing. Go read over his posts and you can see that he's not saying much of anything. He says he's productive and helping town but all he did was copy paste compile some posts. His reasoning for lynching Kurumi still boils down to, I don't think he's really mafia, I was just doing it to bandwagon/get a read on you/stop mafia from "changing the vote" when there was no vote to change. He posts long paragraphs of which half are quotes and the rest is fluff about said quotes. | ||
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Do you think cthsazsa has at any time tried to come off as pro-town but actually been anti-town? Do you think amber tried to come off as pro-town but has actually been anti-town? What do you think about amber's long posts that tell nothing? What about his scummy reasons that he tries to pass off as legitimate? | ||
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On May 09 2011 03:40 Varpulis wrote: @chaoser I'm not 100% on Amber[LighT]. He's had some bad, pseudo-content posts, but he's also made some good ones that seem genuinely town friendly. I'll keep my eye on him, but I'm not convinced that he's scum. Perfect target for a dt check, I'd say. That's the point of mafia though. You say he has "town friendly" posts but also "pesudo-content" posts. Mafia want to be in that middle ground. I actually haven't seen any town friendly posts from him so can you quote some for me? Cthsazsa is more just straight up having bad town play and he deserves a check. Bad town play is what needs to be DT checked since it's harder to read. But Amber is trying to be useless but seem useful. That's a scum. | ||
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Cthsazsa (4) Conversion redtooth Varpulis ilovejonn Amber[light] (3) chaoser sandroba chaos13 We've been talking about these two all day and I think it's fair to say that at the end of the day we get the most out of lynching one of these two. That being said, people should decide on whether to vote on one or the other. Voting all willy-nilly on people that no one else is focusing on (Beneather, Forumite, redtooth, and kevconism) isn't helping anyone and just allows mafia to randomly vote and not have to deal with the consequences. | ||
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Again, Chaoser conveniently drops Sandroba off the list even though Amber and Sandroba have equal votes at this point (of which chaos13's vote seems as bandwagon-ish as it can be). Because sandroba is probably the most pro-townie player I've seen in this game. I hosted Sleeper Cell Mafia and so I've seen his scum play. He knew Ace and Jackal were mafia from day 1 and so it's a decent read on his scum play and his play in this game is not at all like his play in that game. | ||
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On May 09 2011 04:50 Amber[LighT] wrote: What about your buddy sandroba? sandroba(3) Eternalmisfit Amber[LighT] DropBear More useless bullshit I see. You say I'm the most scummy but then you vote sandroba based on "connection"? Why not just be like redtooth and vote for me? Yeah, I thought so. | ||
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On May 09 2011 05:06 Eternalmisfit wrote: I think this debate is going in circles. I have a weak suspicion on you and a strong scum-read on Sandroba. You and Sandroba both seem to have a strong scum read on Amber. Given this, in the decision on who to include and who not to include in the smaller focus set, both you and me will be biased. I would prefer to have Cthasazsa and Sandroba and you would prefer to have Cthazazsa and Amber. Given this situation, would you trust me to make the decision of a smaller focus set alone? I bet not. And that the exact same reason I cannot trust you make the decision of deciding who should be included in the smaller focus set. I am not sure of your leanings and have not seen any strong analysis showing why you have a strong town read on Sandroba. If you can convince me with such an analysis, I would gladly concede on having Sandroba removed from the focus set. But until then, since enough people are suspicious of both Amber and Sandroba, I would recommend having both of them and Cthazazsa in there. Here's a question then, why would two mafia, since you have a weak scum read on me and a strong read on Sandroba, try their ass off to get Amber out of all people lynched. He has no useful posts (if you're going to compare his posts to sandroba, you'll see that sandroba is at least contributing and giving opinions on matters. Amber has been pretty much saying the same thing everyone else is saying, copying ideas from everyone else who has written about sandroba.) If we were mafia you think we'd BOTH stick our necks out to get AMBER out of all people lynched? It wasn't even like the Amber situation only came up after sandroba situation came up to draw pressure off amber, it happened the other way around. | ||
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On May 09 2011 05:48 Eternalmisfit wrote: Let me recap the events of last night. You started off with a FoS on Amber which was followed by Sandroba's rather quick jump from redtooth onto Amber. At the point where I first pointed Sandroba seemed suspicious, a bandwagon seemed to be forming against Amber. Several others started stating Amber seemed a little scummy without backing it up with any analysis. If I had not raised my suspicions on Sandroba, a similar bandwagon to the one on Kurumi would have formed on Amber. Even if Amber flipped green/blue after a lynch, it would be hard to pinpoint any scum strongly since a large number of townies would have been mixed in with the scum (like what happened with Kurumi). At this point, even if the lynch of Amber goes ahead and he flips town, it will be quite clear who all are suspicious. As to why Mafia would want Amber dead, I (and also several others in this thread) have got a potential blue read from Amber. Getting a blue lynched would be a big victory for scum at this point since town already lost 2 blues on Night1. As for my case against Sandroba, I have stated it before and do not see the necessity of restating it again. You actually got the time line wrong. Aidnai started to put pressure on Amber on day 1 with a promise of a real case against him on Day 2. At this time I also said that I had suspicions on Amber. Aidnai then died after Night 1. There was talk between sandroba and redtooth at night about his rules and I think it is around this time that sandroba moves his redtooth suspicions. He states this in a post. So as you can see, there was substantial suspicion against Amber way before sandroba was even mentioned. If mafia thought amber was blue, they'd just snipe him at night, not get him lynched. They're go for easy targets like Kenpachi or Cthsazsa. You talk about a bandwagon but there's really no bandwagon on him. 3 (now 4) people formed over two days a bandwagon does not make. If anything there's a bandwagon on Cthsazsa. | ||
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I'll call and raise you a policy lynch. If he gets modkilled and flips green, take the auto-lynch or vigi hit. I'll do the same if he doesn't come back and eventually flips red. I'll bring the same deal I brought to youngminii, if he flips green, I will youtube a video of me singing a popular K-Pop song. If he flips red, you have to do it. KK? | ||
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On May 09 2011 06:00 Varpulis wrote: @redtooth, So if you aren't right on a couple of reads you should give up and stop analyzing/making suggestions? Right. Somewhere around page 55, Jaminz posted something along the lines of "KillerSOS could be blue" Chaoser responded with "I was hoping you wouldn't say that" That's the hint he was referring to. Regarding the KillerSOS thing, KillerSOS gets pressured and he says "why would I want to stand out and get lynched or shot?" People call him out on it and he says "Think about what other roles don't want to be found out" I immediately post to try to drown his post out. Jaminz says "are you blue?" and I say "I was hoping you wouldn't say that..." | ||
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Honestly it's the most protown thing to do - if you're wrong pretty often, stop being so loud. I'mma hold you to this when I'm right =] | ||
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On May 09 2011 06:06 redtooth wrote: With that said, my offer still stands about the policy lynch since that doesn't seem to defy the rules. Will you take? I already said yes. Shoot me at night if you want. That's how confident I am in this. Let's play for all the marbles yo. We can even grudgematch it out | ||
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On May 09 2011 06:37 Forumite wrote: Town would back off, to avoid calling attention to a blue Mafia would back off, and rely on a safe nightkill out of the blue Backing off from a blue is neither a Towntell or a Scumtell. EM says that I want Amber lynched because Amber is blue and if I'm mafia I would want to lynch him. As to why Mafia would want Amber dead, I (and also several others in this thread) have got a potential blue read from Amber.Getting a blue lynched would be a big victory for scum at this point since town already lost 2 blues on Night1. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://somemanga.com/images2/4825921.jpg) | ||
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On May 09 2011 06:55 Mig wrote: Maybe we should just lynch whomever wins the bet. Either way, we can talk about the bet later after the lynch. Right now, discuss about Amber v Cthsazsa | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#426 His first real post. He asks other people about what they feel about various situations, never gives his own opinion. He tries to refocus the talk back onto inactive lynch when no one else is talking about it and are mostly involved in the Irish issue at this point. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=22#439 Again he asks questions and answers nothing. He says the best play would be to lynch mafia I believe that the inactive player should be disregarded as their punishment will be coming, and we need to use the lynches to lynch mafia (Quote 1)Thanks for not contributing. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=38#758 Again he asks lots of questions and tries to make an excuse for why he's not posting and being generally inactive. He justifies his reason to vote for Kurumi by saying he's bandwagoning to avoid people swinging the lynch when clearly that was not going to happen. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=45#894 This is actually fluff. It looks like a huge post but more than half of it is just quoting. He again states that his reason for voting Kurumi is because This poses a VERY dangerous situation where we have to deal with the votes thinned out between large numbers of suspects. That means we enter scenarios where 1-2 votes can actually make a difference. (quote 2)even though this is FALSE. He also, in the same post, says he thinks sandroba is giving very good town advice and analysis. I mean I think sandroba is pretty spot on with this post. (quote 3)http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=48#957 One big post of Fluff that he later tries to justify in this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216644¤tpage=54#1074 He also OMGUS votes sandroba even though just previously he said sandroba had good town analysis. Also, if you read through his posts, in the very beginning he says he doesn't like redtooth but as soon as redtooth supports him and is against his lynch he says he thinks redtooth is a better leader. Amber is Scum (Hope you're happy redtooth) | ||
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On May 09 2011 07:43 redtooth wrote: EBWODP: BTW can you verify what I just shook for? If Irish gets modkilled and flips greed then you admit that you're either a scum or a retarded townie and get vigi killed. If Irish doesn't get modkilled and ends up flipping red then I am an idiot townie or scum and I get vigi killed. I'm fine with that. I thought it was on amber? Either way, ok I'll shake on Irish. I also take him coming last minute to vote as a sign that he is mafia. | ||
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On May 09 2011 09:00 Cthsazsa wrote: The votes are, or were, spread out between a lot of players, with us 3 having the highest. I have a gut feeling that Amber's not scum. But that's all it is, a gut feeling. I gave my reasons why I think redtooth is scum, and apparently I'm a dumbass for doing so. So I voted you. If you are calling me scum just because I didn't vote for Amber, I'll be glad to switch. Cthsazsa, have you read my analysis of amber? are you saying sandroba, who has been contributing all game, is better than Amber, who has been lurking? Also, wtf kita? lynching spam over a lurker? Have you hit your head on something? Not what I would expect from you. In previous games you've always advocated lynching lurkers to great effect. | ||
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On January 10 2011 07:34 Ace wrote: I'll believe Nemesis over an absent player. Why would you side with someone that isn't even defending himself? | ||
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However, his flip will provide the town a lot of information. Based on his flip, at the very least, we can be sure whose analysis is worthwhile and who all are either noobtown/scum. However, his flip won't provide much useful information and quite possibly the next day will again delve into Amber discussion all over again. Why would you not vote for amber? | ||
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Amber isn't even here to defend himself, obviously lurking, and Cth is and you're going to vote Cth off? Go ask Ace what he would do -_-. | ||
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VOTE AMBER | ||
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On May 09 2011 06:01 redtooth wrote: Chaoser likes percentages (at least high number percentages). I don't want to make up arbitrary numbers so I'll list stuff in the order of which I'm most confident in to which I'm least confident in. Most confident
While my argument doesn't "rely heavily on Cthsazsa popping red", that is the ticket to a surefire read. So do I get a sorry now redtooth? | ||
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On May 09 2011 08:50 GMarshal wrote: Cthsazsa (10) Conversion redtooth Varpulis ilovejonn Forumite Lyter kitaman27 GGQ AO Eternalmisfit Amber[light] (6) chaoser sandroba chaos13 Kenpachi Mig orgolove And also Sinani Chaoser's Mafia List: sinani ilovejohn GGQ EternalMisfit I will explain why each of them are as such | ||
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I've had suspicions of Sinani since Day 1. On May 05 2011 10:31 sinani206 wrote: OK, back from practice. + Show Spoiler [Redtooth] + He is probably the most confusing player right now. First he accuses Irish for no reason, but then takes it back, followed by a policy post. His excuse was that he was trying to see how quickly people defended Irish, but what if that was plan B? Redtooth hasn't posted in a while now, and this has kinda died down, but I just want to remind everyone about what happened earlier. Don't just throw things away as soon as he makes an excuse. + Show Spoiler [Chaoser] + Chaoser was very aggressive at first, of course starting with his accusation of Irish which was followed by additional aggressive posting. But then he calmed down a little. Is it because his Mafia buddies told him to, so as not to be targeted? That is the main question I have here. + Show Spoiler [Jackal58] + Aggressive, but in a neutral way. Nothing he has said swings me one way or the other. He plays very well. You get a star! lol. + Show Spoiler [Irish_Punk13] + May have overreacted to accusation, but that was probably just surprise... I don't blame him. He then blames AirbladeOrange, which isn't too suprising. More on him next. + Show Spoiler [AirbladeOrange] + Very suspicious with not much of a defense. Possible vote right here. + Show Spoiler [Cthsazsa] + Posting, but no real substance. Another possible vote. + Show Spoiler [Forumite] + Very analytical, no aggressiveness. + Show Spoiler [Others] + Nobody else really stands out enough or has enough posts for me to analyze their play. Just keep posting, people! In this post, he says nothing. He gives out a fucking opinion on everyone that any one opinion means little to nothing. But not just that, he also is very wishy-washy. Everything is pretty much "I have nothing to say". What's suspicious is that the post seems like it's very big when really it contains almost nothing. He then says the AO is "very suspicious" and that he found no one else "suspicious". Yet in his next post, which he doesn't even try to explain in thread, he just votes in the voting thread, he votes Kurumi, someone he hadn't mentioned. When I call him out on it, he gives this gem of an analysis: Very analytical, but at the same time, very aggressive. He doesn't give up. This causes me to believe he is a member of the Mafia. I will be voting for him today, He calls AO "very suspicious" and he calls Kurumi "very analytical" but for some reason he votes kurumi? Doesn't make much sense. He then continues to one-line his way to 20 posts. On May 08 2011 23:51 sinani206 wrote: Lyter chaos13 kevconsim Takuna Beneather This is the list of people that have not contributed to day 2. At least some of the scum must hide in the inactives. Kevconsim was a replacement for Rising_Phoneix, who did not even vote on day 1. Rising_Phoenix is an extreme case of inactivity, which is a scumtell. Kevconsim has inherited his role and is doing the same thing. This is VERY suspicious. As such, my vote is for kevconsim unless he starts posting some useful stuff and voting. ##Vote: kevconsim Who do you think is scum, kev? His next important post is this one, just a few hours before the vote. He says that scum are hiding in the inactives and then gives shit reasons for voting kevconism. He could be dumb town but not even Cthsazsa was this dumb. He needs to be prodded to contribute more and also to be kept an eye on. There's townie-dumb, and then there's mafia pretending to be townie-dumb. There's no way someone is this dumb. Especially with the "6 people switch votes? there are 6 mafia!" post. I will check him and hopefully come back with results tomorrow morning. | ||
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Mr. 11 posts has now become Mr. 14 posts. And they are filled with such gems as: On May 05 2011 12:47 GGQ wrote: Kurumi's style of willfully posting nonsense reminds me of only one other player I've ever seen; serejai from last game. I shot serejai and he flipped mafia. I suggest lynching Kurumi. This is only making it worse. You've addressed the accusations. If there was no weight behind them, then just move on until they accuse you with something new. Try to scumhunt instead of defending yourself. Only scum worry about defending themselves. Town worry about finding scum. I'm saying you were using the same scum strategy; post nonsense and act like you have no idea what's going on so people will just ignore you. It worked for Serejai last game; he avoided a lynch until I shot him (I was a vigilante). I'm not a vigilante this game, so my only way to kill you was to vote for you. This post rings some bells in my head. There was no need for a PbP analysis here, you just needed to tell Lyter to post more and explain his vote. Doing a PbP in this instance feels like an attempt to gain townie cred for nothing. Also, to a large number of people in the mafia forum: the word 'weary' is not the same as the word 'wary'. To be 'weary' means you are tired or exhausted. To be 'wary' means you are cautious or on your guard. Thank you. aidnai has a good analysis of GGQ's points: GGQ's point about serejai is moot. There are key differences between these cases -- serejai was a hardcore lurker, kurumi is quite active; serejai was (and is) a big troll and is also demonstrably quite clever as seen by his posts elsewhere on the site, kurumi that I know of has no history on this site to make a similar conclusion; kurumi has been interacting with the thread, addressing current issues etc, serejai only did this on perhaps one occasion. There is also the language issue that makes kurumi's posts seem stranger than they actually are. GGQ then comes in late to push Cthsazsa's lynch and while other's did as well, his reasons were non-reasons. Before the Amber vote gained much steam, he writes: Cthazsa seems to be a lot quieter now than he was on the first day, and I can't explain why. He responded with lots of posts to jackal's pressure, but now he's gone afk because of the pressure today? Maybe just because he's now a viable lynch target? His actions seems scummy enough, but I never got that vibe from his posts. I'd like to see an analysis by someone I trust more than redtooth showing him as scum. Amber seems the scummiest to me from his posts so far, but there just aren't that many of them. But later he writes I like Amber's defense a lot more than Cthsasza's. Amber's a player we'd actually like to keep around for future days. Overall, though, I just have a very 'off' feel about this game. Your analysis was completely circular. Cthsazsa contributes nothing of value, failing to provide any defenses for his scummy play. He flounders around sweating under pressure, not sure what to do. Meanwhile Amber provides a solid defense explaining all his actions in depth, which no one has refuted, and he has the stronger case? Yeah, both me and sandroba refuted it. And guess what, Amber flipped red! Yay! GGQ, you're a vet, I've played with you before and you contribute and FoS and all that good stuff. You have not done so this game. You have actively tried to move a lynch off Amber onto Cthsazsa with shit reasons and it ended up not working. GG Scum | ||
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Scum List GGQ sinani | ||
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Sandroba Cthsazsa | ||
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Glad my fake claim worked. | ||
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On May 12 2011 13:46 Varpulis wrote: Why should I trust orgolove's data? We've killed three mafia, and are about to kill a forth. None of them were on his suspect list, which was based entirely on his data. [astral voice]You all only lynched one and that was only because I fake claimed DT. In fact you were voting for Cthsazsa and NOT amber before my claim. The other was modkilled and the final one was shot by a vigi, both of which were not in your control. Don't get all high and mighty, dude[/astral voice] | ||
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