EPTWhat am I doing here?
TL Mafia Idea Factory - Page 45
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
What am I doing here? | ||
|
[UoN]Sentinel
United States11320 Posts
Players can choose any of the nation-states to play from a selection of about 50. Everyone will know each other's nations, for example that Player A is Austria, or Player B is Bohemia, and will know what kind of role each person has (i.e. investigative, voting, KP), and each player will have a set amount of known voting power based on their real life size, meaning some nations can push lynches easier than others. Both the town and the mafia will be allowed to ban a few countries before the start of the game. Bigger nations might also have some handicaps. The hidden part of the role is the abilities themselves. They will be constrained to the general category - so investigative countries only have access to investigative roles, and players can choose 2-3 one-use abilities from a pool of twice the size. Mafia will obviously be able to share each others' roles, and I can provide the shortlist of all their roles in the QT so they can plan things out. One or two of each country's roles will be made public. There will be a standard lynch with the voting power rules, kinda like voting to remove players from the HRE. There are three tiers of nations. At the top there is the emperor (mayor), chosen by the players, with a small additional set of known powers and extra voting power. For the mayor election, everyone gets 1 equal-powered vote. There will also be a group of electors, arbitrarily chosen and known before the start of the game (Brandenburg, Cologne, etc.), with less powers and no extra VP bonus. When the current emperor dies, electors vote on a new emperor. If the electors all die, there will be no emperor. (Normally they choose each other, but I feel in the context of a mafia game that would just turn everything into a town/scum circlejerk.) No idea what I want to do with imperial powers other than the voting, but I think coming up with 200+ abilities (or less, and have a few like-minded countries like Brandenburg and Brunswick overlap) shouldn't be too hard. I could allow the emperor to implement some sort of reichsreform that gives countries a small bonus (like a one-use KP shield) and the emperor a bigger bonus (like a KP) in addition to the small bonus (his own KP shield). The mafia team, to compensate for their lack of secrecy, will also have a hidden pool of their own roles to use (and some of these would be made public), and possibly a larger amount of KP. And there are no vanilla roles here, even the shitty one-province states might have better hidden powers to compensate. The shitty country of Liege might be able to "Call in France" and get access to a 2-KP attack or something. Idk. There's a lot I want to do with this PYP, but I also don't want to make it overly complex, just enough to have some crazy mechanics and make it interesting for everyone who has a bunch of time to | ||
|
ritoky
United States6851 Posts
The basics are that there are 3 cell blocks, minimum security, gen pop, and maximum security; in each cell block there is guaranteed to be at least 1 mafia. During the day phase players can elect to vote anyone out or vote to cause a riot. A riot is a random re-rolling of the cell blocks. Players will be randomly shuffled into a new cell block once again with at least 1 mafia in each cell block. In the event that there are too few mafia for each cell block (i.e. 2) the 3rd cell will be eliminated and everyone alive will be consolidated into 2 cell blocks. Same case would go for if there was 1 mafia remaining. During the night phase, mafia would have the ability to kill or cause a riot, however the catch would be that they could only kill a player in a cell that they had a mafia member in. For example there is 1 mafia in cell A, 2 in cell B, 1 in cell C. Mafia in cell C gets lynched during day phase, mafia will be unable to kill players in cell C during the night until a mafia member moves to cell C via riot or PR. In terms of PR's I for sure think mafia should have a 1 or 2shot role that allows them to both riot and kill a player in the night phase. And I think town should have a role that allows players to either be moved or move themselves between cells without a riot. Outside of that the only game specific role I was considering was one that can stop a lynch immediately and cause a riot. The biggest thing I have been pondering is if it should be a flip or a no-flip setup. I feel that the mafia is at a disadvantage naturally in this setup because the cells give additional information to town and place constraints on mafia's kp abilities. The cells also consolidate to tell the town when they have lynched the mafia down to 2. Anywayz those are the basics, I would love feedback and ideas. If you need additional information I will be around trying to answer. | ||
|
GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
He shoots ppl at random Perfect role Pew pew pew | ||
|
Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On March 15 2015 15:54 GlowingBear wrote: Imagine a role of a drubkrn vigi He shoots ppl at random Perfect role Pew pew pew not gonna name names, but wouldn't be different from how some people play vigi now | ||
|
GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On March 15 2015 15:55 Blazinghand wrote: not gonna name names, but wouldn't be different from how some people play vigi now Take that [insert name here] | ||
|
Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
Or Gatorade | ||
|
GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
| ||
|
Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
parity parity cop cop - compare two sets of two players. you're told if the result you got from them was the same or different. For example, if you get "different" for one pair and "different" for the other pair, your result is "same". If you get "different" for one and "same" for the other, your result is "different" 2-shot 1-shot vigilante - twice per game, at night, choose a player - you shoot that player. 1-shot 2-shot vigilante - once per game, at night, choose two players -- you shoot both of them. twin-shot 1-shot vigilante / gunsmith - once per game, at night, choose one player to get shot and one player to get a 1-shot gun. 1-shot twin-shot 1-shot vigilante / gunsmith - once per game, at night, choose one player, who will get shot AND be given a 1-shot gun paranoid paranoid 1-shot twin-shot 1-shot vigilante/gunsmith owner owner - if anyone visits you at night, they leave with a paranoid 1-shot twin-shot 1-shot vigilante/gunsmith owner. if someone visits THEM at night, that person leaves with the 1-shot twin-shot 1-shot vigilante/gunsmith power, which is once per game, at night, that player can choose one player who will get shot AND be given a 1-shot gun. the only one of these that's both hilarious and balanced is the 1-shot twin-shot 1-shot vigilante/gunsmith, which is a gunsmith that/s either nerfed or buffed, or a vigi that's either nerfed or buffed. It's like JK in a way, i'd be interested to see how it plays out | ||
|
gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
But also, some people have win-condition-altering roles. If your win condition was "Kill role X and win with faction Y", then someone can apply a night action to you and change your win condition to "Lynch someone from faction Z and survive until endgame". Some roles may add additional rules to your win condition to make it harder for you to win. Others may remove rules to THEMSELVES to make it easier for them to win. Other may redirect these or modify them (as some kind of tracker/watcher), others may be "win-condition cop", checking someone else for a specific rule of their win condition. It would be a clusterfuck...but aren't those fun? I also guess the most important thing will be balancing it so it plays like a "normal" game of mafia, with some people trying to hide, manipulate and lie, and others trying to find the truth and kill the "baddies" unanimously in the thread. | ||
|
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
Technically, a 10v2 game has less chance of hitting mafia on day 1 than a 10v3 game. The reason I ask is because if all you're doing is looking at for example day 1 lynch % in a game with 25% scum in it, and then applying that % to a game with 15% scum in it, your results are going to be skewed. @jat, I don't think 10v3 all-vanilla is balanced unless you can guarantee there will be no lazy/afk/trolling/deadweight townies, which basically doesn't happen. @Rels, even with an activity requirement you will not get a fully useful town. It is close to impossible. | ||
|
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
%chance to lynch per remaining mafia. I'm making things complicated now  | ||
|
kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
On September 30 2015 18:59 Palmar wrote: @Kita, I am super curious if your simulation adjusts for the amount of mafia in the game in the first place. Technically, a 10v2 game has less chance of hitting mafia on day 1 than a 10v3 game. The reason I ask is because if all you're doing is looking at for example day 1 lynch % in a game with 25% scum in it, and then applying that % to a game with 15% scum in it, your results are going to be skewed. Kinda. I modified the base lynch percentage based on the town to mafia ratio, which scales from day two and on, but I didn't account for changing the percentages depending who gets lynched. For instance, 5v2 and 4v3 would be treated the same. Since the percentages were average-case to begin with, that negates this problem somewhat, but not totally. Either way, those numbers definitely shouldn't be taken as fact. It was just something that I was playing around with. On September 30 2015 18:59 Palmar wrote: @jat, I don't think 10v3 all-vanilla is balanced unless you can guarantee there will be no lazy/afk/trolling/deadweight townies, which basically doesn't happen. It does seem problematic that we could run a 13 player cop/medic setup and a 13 player vanilla setup and try to call them both equally balanced. I think all vanilla is kinda boring to being with, though I'm sure there are some that enjoy it. You could maybe try something like 9v3 where mafia loses their n1 or n2 kp or something to give town a bit of a bump while still keeping it all vanilla. | ||
|
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
And yeah, I agree that vanilla is boring and it's extremely punishing if one dude on your team is being a shithead. | ||
|
Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On September 30 2015 17:17 justanothertownie wrote: Flawed logic. Blue roles can hurt town as much as they help. Examples are vigis losing mislynches or cops getting false checks. Also mafia fakeclaims can be a very powerful tool that is lost in vanilla games. I don't know how a balance team member can make a generalized stupid statement like this. smh Really? Cause my statement is that one should be hesitant, not "10v3 is unbalanced", which I think is a super reasonable statement. Like, one could definitely imagine blue roles that hurt town, and sure, it's possible Blue roles hurt town as much as they help, but most people act as though Blue roles actually help town. Given that this is the case, I don't think it's a good idea to jump right ahead and say "10v3 vanilla is balanced". I'm hesitant about this. Do you actually disagree? | ||
|
Fidei86
United Kingdom2116 Posts
| ||
|
Blazinghand
United States25553 Posts
On October 01 2015 03:34 Fidei86 wrote: On an unrelated note, I ran a game of Resistance on Voice a few nights ago, and it went quite well. Would there be any enthusiasm / would I be allowed to run full forum game? Resistance has been hosted here a few times with varying levels of success 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/297525-resistance-i-london-calling 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/311315-resistance-2-tunnel-rats 3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/439135-resistance-3 4 (avalon): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/469022-the-resistance-avalon | ||
|
Palmar
Iceland22633 Posts
| ||
|
Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
| ||
|
DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
It all depends on the expected value you consider these two roles to hold. If there was a game where town could choose to trade in their cop and medic roles to insta-kill one scum at the start. Would you do it? I don't think I would. Because I believe the Expected Value of the Cop and the Medic over the course of the game to be higher than the one less scum at the start. There are a couple of reasons for this. 1.) Cops clear suspicious townies throughout the course of a game as well as detect scum. This makes it far easier to solve the game through PoE later on, this also drastically reduces the effect of poor townies on the game. 2.) Medics can save the strong townies and gives the towns stronger analysts more time to lynch correctly one more day for a strong player to solve the game is worth much more to me than several days of terrible/inactive townies not solving the game. Basically the exact numbers for All Vanilla still comes down to how much expected value you assign to blue roles. But saying 10v3 vanilla is a balanced setup is just flat out wrong IMO. The mafia scum wiki actually states that many believe that 11-2 is unbalanced for town and they have run many more of these types of games than we have at TL. This is the only kind of observational evidence that exists and is therefore more valuable than conjecture or statistics based on (i'm assuming) small and incomplete datasets. | ||
| ||
