Insane Mafia 2
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I am in college and in such may be unavailable during the day. Note also i'm in a european timezone. Just so you know me: - I'm TOTALLY NEW to forum mafia, remember that and if you're not gonna go easy on me at least don't judge me harshly - I'm a regular on Epic Mafia, understand the mechanics, love the game - I'm pretty much impervious to flames and hate getting into grudge arguments so use logic or state your case but don't bother to emotionally manipulate me, i'll just take it as scummy. I've taken down ALOT of information from all the posts since 11:00 KST so i might split this into several posts or not… Basically the way I see it anyone's opinion can be misleading here so let's start off with facts and move onto motive later. I'm gonna recap what I have of the elections. I'm leaving out unimportant info on people who have retracted. | ||
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Tnkted [RETRACTED] - Only person promising a 'free' vote (players decide n1 lynch) GMarshal [RETRACTED] - Reserves right to choose lynch - Believes mafia/scum are heavily invested in getting the mayorship due to setup Jackal [RETRACTED] - Reserves right to choose lynch Annul - hasn't posted policy on d1 lynch - poor listing of abilities - claimed by several not to have good scumhunting KavDragon - hasn't posted policy on d1 lynch - posting more about other people's campaigns then his own GGQ - hasn't posted policy on d1 lynch - seems to have been forgotten about? Has posted since but reminded no one of his candidacy BumAtLarge - Offers to give his d1 lynch to RebirthOfLegends!! - Claims Blue (Blue claim seems more due to logical motivation rather than a slip IMO) RebirthOfLegend - Reserves right to choose lynch - Professes very strong scum hunting abilities - Offers to stand down if there are no counter-claims to BumAtLarge alignment claim of blue Kenpachi - hasn't posted policy on d1 lynch - Has mentioned his running twice but hasn't spoken of his abilities | ||
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What do we need from our mayor? The mayor lynches day 1. From many it has been made clear that as this lynch is a crapshoot it isn't terribly important who gets hit (Of course I care I just mean it doesn't carry much weight when you decide who is mayor). For that reason the most important reason we try and stop a red/black alignment from getting the mayorship is longevity. We don't want to have to lynch his BGs to get at him. Because of this I have come to care less about the policy of d1 lynches in each campaign and more on whether or not they can scumhunt. This means I personally (and hopefully others) will worry about achieving a balance between paly experience and town telling when voting and NOT whether or not I have a say in the d1 lynch. Outed Blue Candidate: BumAtLarge has outed the fact that he is blue. What I don't understand is why people believe that we may end up with a 4-4 blue/black outing scenario. The way I see it a 50/50 lynch is an extremely pro-town opportunity. On that basis alone black should consider a blue cc. More to the point from towns POV the best thing to do is have a blue claim, wait for a cc and if it comes STOP THERE. We now have a 50/50 situation between 2 players and we don't need to vote either of them. I'm not going to bother explain why an uncced blue is clear so we then find that: If a blue claims and there are no ccs he is clear. If a blue claims and there are ccs NEITHER should be voted mayor. Then our decision only becomes if the blue is cced do we want him as mayor. Personally I feel I would rather have a clear mayor with bad scumhunting abilities then a veteran played who is actually red/black. I really want opinions on the above because I feel the fact I'm new might make that logic wrong. Tell me which you think is more important. In BumAtLarges case I can see that while he doesn't have strong scum hunting skills (or so i hear) he could be clear. For me the decision is then probably made. If a cc does turn up I would expect neither him nor his cc to be voted and instead someone else who meets the best balance on the veteran vs. townishness scale. In fact in that situation I think the d1 lynch should probably be on the blue c.c.s. Thats the end of my analysis rant. Next comes the voting so far... | ||
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+ = semi-certain votes for - = semi-certain votes against Annul: (+1,-1) RoL says annul 'doesn't suck' at voting Meapak says he has 0 scumhunting abilities Kav: (+1,0) Jackal states he will vote Kav GGQ: (0,0) No mentions Chaoser: (+1,-1) Meapak says he will vote Chaoser if he doesn't retract CubEdin is against a Chaoser vote Bum: (+6,-1) RoL will vote him in exchange for exclusive rights to his lynch iGrok is voting Bum Tntked is voting Bum KavDragon does not support Bum Meapak has Bum in his top 3 CubEdin supports Bum Brownbear supports Bum Coagulation opposes Bum RoL: (0,0) Meapak has RoL in his top 3 Ken: (0,0) No mentions Bum is in a clear lead here. Issues I personally have with any candidates/tactics are as follows: I feel Bum definitely cant give away his vote. The entire point behind voting a blue is having a stronger lynch chance d1 due to being clear and knowing the other blues. Even if giving the vote away means a stronger scum hunter would use it there is no way of knowing which alignment RoL is. If this were Epic Mafia I would be seriously worried about RoL for offering this trade as it seems against town. However things in forum mafia may be a bit different. Chaoser made an interesting point which started a debate on whether to pick our mayor from the mini-game or not. The chances of picking mafia in the mini game are 33%. The chances of picking a mafia when the mini-game is excluded is 33%. The chances of picking mafia from the entire role of players is 33%. These numbers don't do us any favors. Seeing as having a clear from the mini-game is impossible, as there are no blues, I would urge this strategy not be employed. (Someone check my maths, but i'm pretty sure i'm right) Chaoser mentioned he would sheep town on the mayoral vote - I personally cannot support a mayor that would leave anything up to chance, even an election. Meapak mentioned that mafia 100% knows who town is: Jackal is a little enigmatic to me. While I feel he's been pretty protown so far, Coag's insta confirm of him has me really suspicious. tbh I'm more suspicious of Coag because only the mafia know 100% who is town. Perhaps I'm taking his view out of context but this seems to be wrong on several levels: #1 Mafia know who isn't mafia, not who is town #2 Surely the third party (seemingly a second mafia) would also 'know' town. #3 Meapak may misunderstand the tactics mafia will use in this game Also Meapak has asserted he wishes to vote Chaoser but will vote Bum if Chaoser retracts. This implies he thinks Bum is clear (if uncced) but wishes to go for an uncertainty anyway (i.e. tunneling the mayoral vote). Surely in this situation logic dictates his vote be changed to Bum and not be dependent on whether Chaoser stands? Misreading and misvoting - 2 attributes I don't want to see in the mayor Lastly - and I apologize to my roomate for this (): Jackal voted almost midway during night 0. I think LSB made it clear that vote didn't count but it was still made. Deconduo offered an official and serious FOS so soon into the game… Guys inform me if it's normal to behave that way or if in fact it's rushing it a bit... | ||
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Chaoser I don't know how i f****d up your candidacy cos i copy/pasted from textedit. As no edits are allowed I'll leave it as is as you get more mention later. | ||
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Coagulation United States. March 24 2011 13:24. Posts 4432 wait what if theres no counter claim to you bum because the blues just got a green townie PM like the rest of us? | ||
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Chaoser in the previous you said: chaoser United States. March 24 2011 13:01. Posts 2183 I will follow town's vote. | ||
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I apologise for my noob-ish-nessy-osity,,, | ||
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So I retract the accusation of sheeping. However I do believe that voting yourself rather than leaving it up to town is very important. With a self decided vote we have a chance at killing the bad guys based on your skills (even if your mafia the chance of hitting town d1 are high and so not much lost). If instead you leave it up to town we're no longer letting skills decide but persuasive power. Again I'd rather rely on your skills and hope you're not mafia then fight the mafia's conniving ability to affect votes! | ||
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CubEdIn Romania. March 25 2011 05:44. Posts 4069 Oh, almost forgot: + Show Spoiler + I'm pretty much impervious to flames and hate getting into grudge arguments so use logic or state your case but don't bother to emotionally manipulate me, i'll just take it as scummy. Shut up, you're ugly! /add_to_scum_list CubEdin :ays | ||
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And it was gonna be funny too: | ||
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Tbh if I was Bum and was willing to out I would have waited until roles were distributed. However if he's uncced i'm going to SERIOUSLY lose respect for anyone that says he's red/black. Also if a cc is on the way and blues are waiting for role outing before they do I applaud their good sense. The only way he could be if he's uncced is if ALL the blues are complete afkers or morons. In the which case the game was probably lost to start with. | ||
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The whole point of you being elected was a clear role that wouldn't by swayed by mafia. When you decide to lynch take your own scumhunting abilities into account and try not to let mafia influence you too much when you read the posts on who to lynch. DONT leave the lynch up to a town vote.... Then we're trading any point of you being clear with the mafia's ability to influence town. Just say you're gonna take our votes into account but make your own decision and reserve the right to shoot who you want. It's the pro-town thing to do! | ||
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my poor little heart | ||
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On March 25 2011 06:49 orgolove wrote: There's still nothing that proves that bum is actually a blue as he claims to be. He could just as easily have a roleswitching/godfather role that is practically impossible to prove in a game such as this that has no reveal on death. I don't understand why you guys are blindly trusting his claim. We've been burned by the reds before... And I love how bum immediately puts me under his suspicion list because I'm not blindly sheeping like the rest of the town. Anyway. If push comes to shove, I'd rather support Kavdragon than you. I don't see how if Bum claims blue and blue are not afk he can be anything but without a CC. Roles arent out yet - he has no powers.. No one does | ||
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On March 25 2011 08:10 LSB wrote: No comment... From now on Annul, before you ask a questions check if it is answered in the OP. If Yes, don't ask the question. If No, you probably don't need to know the answer, so don't ask the question. Harsh but INCREDIBLY fair... | ||
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Slip? | ||
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See you tomorrow to discuss currently important issues such as: 1) Is an uncced blue actually blue? 2) Do things written in the OP actually apply? 3) How come we arent picking a mayor from the item game so we auto-win? . . . | ||
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Annul I have an important question for you. This question is applicable to the game but more so to your judgement. I will give you two choices. You let me know which one you decide: A game of mafia has started The host asks you how you want the setup to go He says: Scenario A - One of the players will have 2 random bodyguards. This player will be confirmed town sided. This player will know 3 other people that are confirmed town-sided. This player will have role powers just like the other 3. This player will have a PM circle with the mentioned players. So one clear that knows for clear that all have powers and a PM circle. Oh - btw - this cleared player that knows 3 other clears... ya he can kill someone n1... Scenario B - You get to pick someone to be bodyguarded by 2 random people. At proper random levels this means there's a 33% chance this person will be mafia sided. Also this person will get to kill n1. Remember that lynches arent random so if this person is town they'll still probably hit a towny. But that's not important because here's your advantage - you have a CHANCE to get some really nifty items. I don't really want to tell you what the items do but there's some of them that may be ok.... So: Scenario A - bodyguarded clear knows 3 other clears whom he can chat with - has a kill n1 and has role powers Scenario B - You have a mayor that might be town sided with the ability to maybe get items later... How is this difficult... | ||
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Also we do not know that person is clear? Some one claims blue. No one ccs. UNLESS all the blues are afk explain how he isnt clear? | ||
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The blue would be mayor so I assume he'll have 2 bodyguards that need to die before he's even vulnerable... plus we have medics... You call that a sacrifice? Also I asked you why the blue isn't clear because you said he was confirmed. Your answer assumed the blue was blue... Still not going to answer my question? | ||
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Annul: Why isn't he confirmed? Give me a situation in which he isn't blue when: There are no ccs The blue players aren't afk Just answer that question PLEASE Stop answering it by telling me he IS blue and he is NOT confirmed and he COULD be blue. Just tell me the situation in which he isn't blue given the constraints we're assuming | ||
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Can't have 4 blue hatters cos blues don't have KP.... Check the OP AGAIN And ONCE AGAIN: You haven't answered my question I asked explain how he isnt confirmed blue without ccs AGAIN you implied he IS blue | ||
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there are ccs in that scenario - we just dont have them yet... | ||
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Then whenever asked about it you give a scenario in which he's blue... Then you go on to announce that he's a 'sacrifice' although as mayor he's the opposite... Then you go on to say we shouldn't elect him which makes him a sacrifice... | ||
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Every time i state if he's uncced blue... that means uncced when we elect him Why would i push to vote a cced blue... | ||
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I should have let this go ages ago. I don't know what it is... When someone is constantly disagreeing with themselves it just feels like a MUST OPEN EYES scenario... This is moot until there is a cc. If there isn't I assume Bum is mayor. | ||
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I see typing injuries in my future | ||
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So the way this turned out I can't imagine mafia pretending to be THAT simple so successfully... I mean that really takes acting lessons... | ||
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As usual my answer is 'it totally depends on the situation'. However if LSB pm'd me and gave me the choice right now i'd say black cos they can't be shot. Possibly if black new red they would shoot him anyway... I need more context man | ||
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Blues discuss you're strategy and if Bum if lying claim it please I hope that didnt need to be said... | ||
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First things first - ##Vote BumAtLarge If there haven't been ccs up until now Blue is fail and not doing their Job. I also want to clear up this 'stay away from noobs' issue. Yes, I can confirm this is my first Forum Mafia game. And no i'm not new to mafia - i've played on EpicMafia for about a month. I do NOT wish to be given any preferential treatment. If you would lynch me as a veteran player than lynch me now. I won't be put off playing in the forums simply cos I died n1. This is important to the game and if I need to be cleared that way for town to win I AM FINE WITH IT. I will however be put off playing if the reason I am lynched is due to moronic strategy... The next point to address is of course Jackals unfounded, undefended decision to tunnel me at all costs. To start with apparently he has 4/6 consensus that I am scum. On it's face we all know that there are 2 scum in the IG circle. So a realistic possibility is that 2 of these 4 are scum and are trying to get anyone lynched but themselves. As i AM green this is highly likely and so we're relying on a consensus that is likely 50% scum. HOW is that consensus?? More to the point he made it clear there was someone who was against lynching me. As I think we can all agree red and black have NO REASON to work together IG as then green knows who to lynch. Because of this we won't see any teamwork except from green. From that reasoning if anyone is defending me IG it's because they're almost certainly green. So an almost certain green believes me to be town and a 50% scum 'team' say i'm scum... Next I had only PMd ONE person before going to be last night. I told that person that we have an opportunity to work together because they gave me green vibes in the thread. I made a CLEAR condition however - I would only work together once I had somehow cleared them AND they had cleared me. That is to say I don't work with people that I haven't cleared but I also don't work with people that im not sure have cleared me. For the obvious reason that it doesn't make sense to work with me if im not clear to you. Seeing as I only spoke with 1 person this item game team has decided i'm scum WITHOUT EVEN TALKING TO ME. Jackal, coag, etc. have PMd only today while i've been catching up on the thread to find this unbelievably wild accusation When I finally PMd jackal the only thing he had to say was: You scum. Dunno if it's black or red but you scum. This isn't even scumhunting… This is complete tunneling based on no information. Jackal isn't even interested in hearing my defense, he just heard from some other players and said 'Well that's decided then...' Another point - Jackal seems to feel that his plan is auto-win on the IG… Notice how we're getting all kinds of wild suggestions such as lynching all IG players: Beneather Canada. March 26 2011 11:45. Posts 383 I think we should just lynch all the IG players (: Bound to get some scum players then and we won't have to worry about items making Mafia win.. So killing all the IG players will probrably help us more than it's going to hurt us.. What kind of strategy is this? I surely expect stronger play than this in this game. A lot of Jackals 'strong' scumhunting abilities have been mentioned. For reasons I listed above this consensus is not a strong tell of who is or isn't scum. Also his abilities are in question with the simple fact that there's a 33% chance of him BEING scum… Note how in the thread previously the only person to FOS me has been coagulation: Coagulation United States. March 26 2011 05:18. Posts 4498 PEOPLE LOVE LIST'S 1. RebirthOfLeGenD 2. Jackal58 3. OriginalName 4. Kenpachi 5. deconduo 6. Kavdragon 7. darmousseh 8. bumatlarge 9. GMarshal 10. Coagulation 11. orgolove 12. chaoser 13. Meapak_Ziphh 14. annul 15. kevconsim 16. Mr. Wiggles 17. CubEdIn 18. GGQ 19. ilovejonn 20. Amber[LighT] 21. BrownBear 22. Lemonwalrus 23. Rean 24. tnkted 25. Tackster 26. Lanaia 27. iGrok 28. Beneather 29. Insanious 30. Eiii Coagulation supplied NO evidence or support for his claim. As I was unfortunately sleeping which is required of me by the fact that I'm human I haven't been able to adress this until now which is in fact when he has obviously used this baseless FOS to influence jackal as well… If we're outing PMs such as coag did above then I firstly want to mention: Why would I try and defend myself to someone that could be scum? Surely I don't want to leak who I believe the other greens are to a possible red/black? And surely I can't retaliate until I know what has been said about me. Coagulation you're entire manifesto against me has NO foundation. There has been other stuff in the thread that I find we need to be wary of but unfortunately now I'm busy having to defend myself.. More to follow | ||
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What I mean is there is NOTHING to do with it in the quicktopics and I have not had ANY strategic talk through PMs. Basically if anything has been happening in the PM circle it's that a group of people have been deciding im scum behind my back without even talking to me. Now the scum have a strong interest in persuading the PM to be anti-green so the scum are having a great time seeding doubt while i'm the kid in the corner no one wants to play with... This thread is the only one where I seem to have any say. You guys who are so ready to FOS me PM me and dont rely entirely on people in the IG that can be scum ffs... | ||
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So far annul is the only person I've really spoken with. And we aren't exactly BFFs.... | ||
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I would like to point out something else important: I'm new to forum mafia. So barring the idea that I'm the devil and the ultimate scum surely if i'm behaving scummy people must be able to PROVE it.... If I am that devil btw how am I FOSsed when there can be no proof? Anyway notice how not one shred of evidence has been brought forward except for the pseudo-evidence that people in the mini-game think i'm scum without any evidence themselves... Of which by the way 2 consist of SCUM | ||
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Brought to you by the campaign for reasonable thinking | ||
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As a townie I am sitting tight till i get more information... And you should too | ||
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#1 - We need to decide who we think mayor should lynch #2 - We need to decide how to clue in the blue's on the mini-game strategy #3 - We need to decide who's being mediked I'd like to repeat something important from earlier: Do not out any DT style powers. We don't want to see nerfing... I want to see a discussion on Lemon, personally I feel his posts have all been fluff pieces. However I still don't have a clear read. I refer you to the long but valuable: tnkted United States. March 25 2011 23:32. Posts 292 On March 25 2011 19:42 CubEdIn wrote: While I do agree that there are a few players who look scummy, I would also suggest we put some hard pressure on the lurkers. Especially those who are also in the item game. I mean, yes, annul seemed very anti-town so far, and I would also get rid of such players, but he was trying to make his case and at least we have a lot of pages of posts to analyse, if need be. The quiet ones are always the ones that are hiding something. This. Amber[LighT] and Brownbear haven't posted much of anything, and i know that they both (brownbear at least) are usually pretty active. We could also put some pressure on lemonwalrus. As a matter of fact, lets analyze lemonwalrus. On March 17 2011 18:48 Lemonwalrus wrote: /in if you are even still letting people in? It is my first time, but I promise to read the rules thoroughly after class today and come prepared. He's a noobie. A green noobie (such as myself) would be excited about the game, and would be posting a lot. A blue noobie would sit back and lurk. We know he isn't a blue noobie because there aren't any in the item game. Therefore... On March 24 2011 11:39 Lemonwalrus wrote: Show nested quote + Actually it is black and baby-blue. This is tl. Well this was an astounding contribution. Actually, GM called him out on it: On March 24 2011 11:47 Lemonwalrus wrote: Show nested quote + Well, I think that the 'vote or no vote for day 1 lynch' platform is a moot point. Someone running with a day 1 vote could easily be mafia, since mafia would have a good shot at tipping the vote, especially now when there is no real suspicion on anyone. Then again they could easily be not mafia and just want to use the vote as a way to win the popular vote to make a vote for them seem like a vote for fairness. Similarly, someone running no day 1 vote could easily be mafia since, obviously getting a free kill day 1 is good for mafia. But they could easily be not mafia and just trust their own mafia sniffing capabilities better than that of the town in the case of a vote. So basically, as of right now, I have not seen any compelling reasons to vote for anyone, I'm gonna wait to see how the debates continue and vote for whoever I think has the strongest ideas for further down the road. Idk, this is my first game though, so maybe I'm thinking too hard about it. Waffling. He doesn't have an opinion. To give him credit, this is early in the game, but still he hasn't contributed anything. If he was really a noobie townie he'd be falling over himself trying to contribute something. But he doesn't, and whats more, his reasons for not contributing are very telling: he claims hes a noobie! On March 25 2011 03:09 Lemonwalrus wrote: Sorry about the one-liners from before...it is my first time, I didn't realize that was inappropriate. I promise to make all future posts of mine painfully and needlessly verbose. As far as the bum/not bum vote, I think bum is the best bet for the town for reasons that have already been discussed at length. (the biggest one for me being that I think if he wasn't blue by now one of the real blues would have surely counter-claimed) (If you are a blue and therefore know that bum isn't, please, there is no reason for you not to counter claim) So unless someone gives one hell of a compelling reason for me not to I intend to vote bum. As far as the irc channels goes, well, gather round fellas, because I may be new to mafia, but I am an old hand at irc. I think having an irc for this is a very bad idea. Basically, it is just a more fast paced version of the forum which, on the one hand i know we all think 'well that is good it gives the scum more of a chance to fuck up and reveal themselves when they are under the gun' but the thing is, everyone will fuck up sooner or later. I'm sure if we do an irc channel literally everyone that participates will, sooner or later, say something that convinces someone that they are scum. That is what happens when you are able to share information without thinking hard about it first. (for instance, look at my signature...do you think any of those guys (besides aesop) would have said those things if they had had time to re-read it before clicking a post button?) Also, I see a major component of the irc channel debate will be 'x isn't active in irc, he must be scum' or 'x is too active in irc, he must be scum' basically wifom madness imo, since with imperfect data either choice will put suspicion on a player and, since town outnumbers scum, more suspicion floating around should benefit scum. So I vote no on irc and yes on bum, and the above are my reasons. Why is he using his noobiness to explain why he isn't contributing?! A true green noobie would be trying to contribute his ass off (like I am right now) instead of coming into the thread, posting unhelpful bullshit like this. Also notice how one small paragraph in that 'significant post' as chaoser calls it immediately below is actually related to the topic at hand (bum), and the rest of it is devoted to an entirely tangential vote on the IRC channel. I'd say, purely line for line, only a forth of this post is actually analysis, and its analysis that had been done by six other players by the time he posted it. Then, when he gets called out for waffling, he posts this. On March 25 2011 03:17 Lemonwalrus wrote: wtf the more i post the more i get crap for not posting, what do you guys want from me ((((( Also I hadn't even thought of the impersonating people on irc thing that GMarshal brought up in his post. That is yet another convolution that irc will bring to the process. (although if we caught someone impersonating it would make it pretty obvious they were scum...so a potential for reward if a scum were to be so bold as to impersonate someone) I think the real problem with the irc is that there is such a thing as too much information when you are trying to make a decision. If we have pages and pages of posts and pages and pages of irc logs to go by, 2 sides could make bulletproof arguments for one person being scum/not scum, and it could be almost impossible to tell who was right with any sort of objectivity. Also....picking through irc logs sounds really tedious. I know that has no importance in the function of the game, but I just feel it will be less fun with a mountain of irc logs...and I kinda want to have fun. IRC IRC IRC. No discussion on bum, no discussion on kav. He has no thoughts other than IRC (which a noobie mafia would obviously not want) and a rehashing of a rehashing of bums position. And this is his last significant post in this topic! his final post says something like, "I decided not to post until roles were given out. The last ten pages in this topic could have been replaced with a kitten playing with yarn." I wasn't convinced he was mafia before I started this post but I am now. BURN THE WALRUS I haven't heard anything from darmo, I haven't seen many posts by him and I think it's important the Item Game players post ALOT. Any item game player that isn't posting is definitely not doing town any favours. By this I don't mean to accuse anyone but I am encouraging they increase volume to help town. The scum do also have an interest in posting on the IG so there's no way to tell which is which by volume, but any non-posters are doing town a disservice. Oh and by the way - Jackal you semi-outed your list of 3 players to me. I'm not going to repeat it here but I will say that currently I am in complete disagreement with you and I don't understand how that would be possible if we were seriously analysing this IG - so lets see some fibre in that fluff ok? Rean I disagree with one of your points: Rean Netherlands. March 26 2011 06:26. Posts 156 Hmmm. It's probably in black's best interest to start killing off the item-game players as fast as possible, while the red's would want to take it easy there to prevent black taking the cake, since black is arguably the biggest threat to the red team at the moment. So with 1 night-kill a time, it comes down to some good analysis and a few lucky medic/dt's for town to walk away with the items As black cant be hit at night it makes sense they attack the item game not fearing red. However they still need to fear green and as they hit more players in IG they will expose themselves. I felt that comment was similar (but not as bad) as the comment referring killing all IG players... Bum put up a list of candidates for lynching. If you guys feel I need to be added to the list I can accept that. I want to point out 2 IG players are on that list and they seem to be largely left alone... Why?? bumatlarge United States. March 26 2011 06:19. Posts 2058 The lynch candidates as of now: annul orgolove lemonwalrus iGrok deconduo Also @Lemon - if this isn't filler i don't know what is: + Show Spoiler + Lemonwalrus United States. March 26 2011 07:15. Posts 4436 Quote # + Show Spoiler + Ok, so I know some other people have addressed this and you pulled back a bit on the next page but I still want to address this myself since I'm getting a "FUCKING POST MORE GODDAMNIT" vibe from the thread, and I think I can help shed some light on this. First of all, as someone (I think it was Jackal) said, just because I don't play like you play doesn't make me auto-scum. I'll admit that this was daunting at first, but I think I've officially gotten the hang of this game, and you should see my post count shoot up from here on out. (although I still will be afk for hours at a time because god damnit guys I'm a college student seriously I have other things I need to do sometimes holy fuck get off my back) Yes, I talked about irc, and yes, scum would be against irc, but I think (for the reasons that I laid out in my post) that it was also bad for town. Don't ignore the things that I said and then say "He only talked about x" as if that is a reason for me to be scum. But the irc thing is an entirely dead subject at this point so I don't want to harp on it as that will just derail. As for the one liners, please, I beg you guys that are focused on those, go back and look at when I made them. You see all the super useful posts surrounding them? Oh wait you don't? Well that is because nothing of any importance was happening at the time i made them, just people making snap judgements on others as scum before there was anywhere near enough information to make those claims, some of my one liners were before the game even started. Ok, so enough of me feeling like my back is against the wall, I've defended myself as much as I feel I need to until I know bum's reasons for putting me on his hitlist, now I think I'm gonna share some analysis of my own. Coag after all the FOSsing on Lemon why are you confirming him? Buddy much? Coagulation United States. March 26 2011 08:24. Posts 4500 stop hating on LEMONwALRUS plz i already told you guys hes green. Notwithstanding that I hear that Coag is being less random than usual. From my experience that is a town-sided trait. So what I will say is examine the above information and quiz people more (including me) so we can get some good information to work with. I want to point out that cubedin has been giving me good vibes. His posts seem relevant but I do disagree with one: CubEdIn Romania. March 26 2011 09:10. Posts 4099 Ok ok. I'll post some of the more thought out plans tomorrow if I have time, but out of what I seen so far: ... 3. I agree that unless something extraordinary happens, we should take out someone in the item game. Even with a 1:3 shot to hit a scum, it will only get better fast (assuming some of them die during the night as well). If they kill one, we will get a 1:2 shot during day 2. Of course, it's not set in stone, stuff may be revealed, but as a guide line it's a good place to start. This doesn't seem to be good strategy for the IG. We have a 2:3 chance to hit green. Scum have a slightly higher chance to hit green. While our chances to hit scum do indeed get better fast our numbers dwindle and thus we have less chance of having a player left to in fact win. Any remarks? | ||
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iGrok - he has been discussed at length and I feel he is the one player right on the border between posting enough not to be a lurker and posting too little to fight for town. His pieces aren't particularly fluffy but they contain more carbs than proteins... (watered down arguments and weak suspicions) Beneather - If he isnt scum for suggesting we wipe the IG then he's a town we must lose. Cant afford to have him near the end given his decision making paradigm LemonWalrus - the details are posted above but his relentless need to FOS people that seem town and his filler pieces are extremely obvious to me My top 3 town reads atm: CubedIn is using strong logic and appealing to pro-town strategy. Even if he is mafia I bet that he doesn't use bad logic to convince town because he knows that we can catch him. So I think he's town and if he isn't town then we'll know when he has no choice but to issue emotional appeals tnkted - I really didnt like the idea of using host PMs to try and gauge alignment. However LSB seems to have allowed it in the thread and so I will in fact use that to my advantage. I don't see why mafia would suggest such a strategy. Also tnk went for mayor and made enough mistakes in his campaign that he seems to be a town that isn't veteran rather than a mafia with 3-5 other people to correct his mistakes Bumatlarge - aside from the fact that we're considering him auto-clear he also would be a blue target if he was mafia. What i like is that the blues can keep an eye on him with their PM circle and if he seems to be flipped by mafia they can let us know. GMarshal I would ask you the same question you asked me. Out some suspicions please! | ||
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Its in my NEXT post that I accuse you | ||
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Hope the move went well and congratulations! A new place is always best when it's new so enjoy it! | ||
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That isn't very pro-town is it? Also if you're green on the IG circle I state again - you're strongest tool is the PM circle - use it fully to get the most advantage. Don't ignore IG players or you'll fail hard | ||
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Capital LOL | ||
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On March 26 2011 15:27 Coagulation wrote: well it has alot to do with the power of elimination buddy. yes usually what we do is take the EVIDENCE and then eliminate scum from our town list or town from our scum list. Mind showing me this evidence please? | ||
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Sexual in you endo anyone? | ||
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A) See what their items do B) We could maybe work out who the scum is based on the effects of the items C) Prevent scum from stealing any green items I have posted this in our quick-topics but i want the towns input on this as well. Also @kev - that is a terrible sounding idea. If you're in the game at later days we won't have any read on you for town/scum. Find some opinions and share them! | ||
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Does the town's KP count as their lynch or should I assume my other natural assumption i don't want to mention If two people try to steal an item from someone what happens | ||
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On March 26 2011 16:20 bumatlarge wrote: Alright, if voting off someone from the item game is of the utmost importance, then I need to know the stances of everyone in the IG. If you are still deliberating over something, say you are in the thread. That's two for tackster, and I couldn't find if annul, darm and LW had said this as well. If it's unanimous among them, then he's probably the strongest candidate. Since people in the IG have kept quiet about most things, I'll trust them just saying who is scum. Remember the logic here. 4 townies, 2 scum. Scum on opposing sides. With decent townie play, we should be able to make the outcome 100% town. Ok a couple of things: #1 the scum are not on the same side but are ONLY interested in not being killed. So they will bandwagon any vote on someone else in the IG #2 I agree the item game is an important mechanic in this game but your vote should only be influenced by the IG players not decided by them #3 As I fear I am in jeopardy of being voted (Lemon also considers me scum) I really need you to check my previous votes on the matter and all the other posts in the thread defending me. I think people are overestimating the amount of strategy being employed in the IG. So far I have only been able to talk to 3 or the other 5 players and 1 of those 3 is ignoring me anyway... | ||
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Anyways nice to be defended although given the weak accusation it hardly seems necessary | ||
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Jackal58 United States. March 26 2011 22:12. Posts 945 I'm not asking anybody to sheep. I'm offering 2 scum at the possibility of 1 townie getting hit. Best case is 2 for 2 and then 4 confirmed townies worst case is 3 confirmed townies. You're not 'offering' two scum your 'gambling' 2 scum... Worst case here is you lynch a townie and FOS 2 more townies... | ||
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Jackal58 United States. March 26 2011 22:42. Posts 947 Cubed. That was my plan. Except I picked a name. I said at the beginning of my post outlining my plan I was about to piss off 3 IG players. I know what 3 of the IG items are. Of the 3 none are particularly beneficial to the black team but they would allow reds to rape us. The other 3 may have attributes that would equally make black damn near invincible but that is merely speculation on my part. I know who 3 of the 4 townies are. Of the 3 of us we are confident in our choice of Tackster. Of the other 3 1 says a scum is definitely among the two noobs in the IG. Annul says it's the other noob. Of those 3 players 2 are scum. Plain and simple. 66% chance that Tack is red or black. 50% of the IG players agree he is scum. 1 other allows for it to be likely. 2 disagree. 1 being Tackster the other annul. Yes we may be wrong but it will pretty much nail the other two to the wall if we are. Worse case scenario 1 townie - 1 red - 1 black. Items to town. I can't make it any more win than that. Again this is more for bum than anybody else but feel free to call me names some more. I am nothing but pro town. No evidence. No clear mechanism for you to know any of this. And bad stats. You claim to have confirmed 3 town. That assumes: #1 You yourself are town (unconfirmed) #2 You can somehow confirm peoples roles d1 to a certainty (LOL) #3 You have amazing abilities at reading (seem to be yourself wrong as we speak) Answer me this: how can you claim it is in town's interest to follow a plan from someone that isn't cleared? As you and the others in the terrific trio have not PMd me how can you claim that 'town' consensus holds true when they must be basing their opinions on a thread where so many are calling my reads pro-town? We were speaking about using our alignment PMs to confirm status. Seeing as we're allowed to use our alignment spiels in the main thread to auto-confirm I ask all townies in the IG to check my posts from page 68 to 71. In one of my posts I clearly referenced the alignment PM we got night 0. Compare my posts to the PM. The similarity is obvious. Lastly if you have this magical ability to confirm a town why dont you do it with me? Or anyone in the 3? Ask me the magic question or something... Because if you can't confirm one of the three of us how are you confirming the others? I believe there's a one word answer to that - tunneling. The blind kind. | ||
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Second - deconduo while I want to be confirmed I don't need to be told I lurk as maf. Insult or what? Jackal keeps claiming he has a vig power and then later mentioned that possibly it is coags vig power. Im afraid that a player in the IG can shoot - doesn't bode well whether he's town or mafia given the disinformation going on. Are we going to consider the mini-game steal/def/use strategy itself or is that useless? | ||
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Vote Jackal58 FOS iGrok FOS Beneather I'm currently stuck between Lemon, darmo and coag. Do we really have enough on darmo to think he's scum? Or is this a policy lynch in the IG? People I think are FOT (Finger of townishness): BumAtLarge CubEdIn tnkted Annul GMarshal deconduo insanious ilovejohn That second list there are only people I think are pro-town - not in any way confirmed. | ||
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Surely you think Jackal is more scum and also we don't want to split the vote so shouldn't you vote jackal? Also you picked the mayor no one likes as mayor instead of the person we're calling clear... tnkted what's going on? | ||
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tnkted United States. March 27 2011 00:47. Posts 297 I'm voting darm because I think jackal is mafia, and I'd rather kill the bulletproof guy and hope that some vig in the crowd takes a potshot at jackal. People have said it a million times, its better to lynch blacks than reds, because blacks can't get picked off by reds. Let the blacks kill the reds at night, while we kill the blacks in the day. What makes you think jackal is black and darmo is red? I don't see the reasoning... Just saw Lemon's breadcrumb. Also rereading that entire bit I can see why people arent 100% clear from it but its a start. I hope you're keeping a list of people that let crumbs out cos there's plenty more. And LSB's posts do lead me to believe that he sent similar if not the same alignment messages to everyone. | ||
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Jackal58 United States. March 27 2011 01:43. Posts 951 Actually your inability to recognize an alignment PM makes me think you're red or black. Or blue... | ||
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Ok things to keep in mind: #1 an IG player is probs gonna get lynched -by that i mean the stats are 66% ignoring scumhunting #2 an IG may get killed tonight/multiple players is possible This leads us towards a worst case scenario where the 2 players not stolen from are killed and hence we have no new information except for what items were list Also whether or not Jackal is scum he seems to have real intel on who has what item. Assume they're all telling each other the truth then maybe a green has information on more than 1 item. That would be a good thing if he's stolen from and more die. From IG PMs i believe there is 1 DT checker and suspicions have of a second. Including my item we have some pro-town stuff to work with. So I like darmo's ideas as it can actually give IG players some evidence to work with. Now if we can get all players in the IG to agree to use n1 (assuming the mafia say yes and lie) there is a possibility for a green player to think 'well if 3 use then i can wifom a steal and at worse i'll steal from a green so nothing is lost at best i'll steal from a mafia'. This is a terrible tactic and although people may like the idea of stealing we should make it clear WIFOMing is out of the question. The reason I bring this up is cos i was considering it when i read your post Lastly there may be vig style powers in the IG. I feel giving scum a shot (assuming they have one - jackal keep saying either he or coagulation do) can be a pretty big advantage. So I was thinking in using the thought process of your plan we could also agree that all green steal from someone. Now if the mafia don't defend there's a big chance they get stolen from. So with that tactic no more people can be shot but of course no new information comes out. If everyone steals nothing is lost, if everyone uses information can be gleaned but people may die. Something to consider | ||
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Anyway the point is if a town is lynched d1 and all the town use then even if none are killed at night scum could steal from 2 out of 3. That leaves us with little information to work with. If scum kill another town then that leaves us with almost no information... Darmo what do you think of all greens agreeing to steal instead? | ||
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Jackal, Coagulation, LemonWalrus are claiming cleared town. Darmousseh, Annul, Tackster supposedly contain the 2 scum. Jackal says the he has cleared the former three and has rounded down the scum to the latter three. Because he says the 3 'greens' think im the scummiest he wants to lynch me. Some things to note: -- The only contact I had before all of this began was with annul and nothing of worth has been mentioned. This has all been done without my knowledge. -- the IG forum is not really being used - i've posted but no one is answering -- Apparently these people think i'm the scummiest even though of the remaining three when the accusation was made I was the only one not FOSsed but in fact declared pro-town by some. -- Coagulation and Lemon have publicly FOSsed me as Jackal said. However they haven't confirmed whether or not they have cleared jackal. My feelings are he has persuaded them that he's green and has buddied them by claiming he feels they are town -- Jackals group have shared their item information. I feel this is anti-town. -- Annul has so far not posted any FOSses on anyone in the IG that I have seen -- Coagulation has defended Lemon vehemently without reason -- Darmousseh has been afk, has just returned and in a PM he claimed that: The biggest person to suspect you was jackal. He was trying to make a plan behind closed doors. There's more points that I have mentioned before but I'll start you off with that! | ||
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Jackal58 United States. March 27 2011 02:41. Posts 954 Do you have a DT item you're confused what to do with? @Jackal - correct you're ability to read has outed that I have a DT item and because I have little knowledge of the game I can't pick someone to use it on. Seriously? After you managed to persuade others to out their items you're trying to out mine in the main thread? Actually I just had a thought - what if coag and lemon are the scum and they're tricking jackal into lynching the town... ROFL | ||
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Jackal58 United States. March 27 2011 02:56. Posts 957 I always make plans behind closed doors. Making plans here is useless. Least town sided view I've ever heard | ||
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I was certain I read that Jackal had said something along the lines of: ...and then we shoot someone **with coags item**... But I can't find it in your posts - or anyone else And i definitely remember something along those lines.. Can anyone point me to the post im talking about? | ||
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However if you do ever have a real reason to think someone is blue its probably better if you claim they're green so mafia can't have extra information. I may be wrong but it seems like it would work. | ||
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Jackal gives me a reason based on his flawed 'i know who town is fo sho' Coag and Lemon just want to kill me And now Annul FOSses me as much as Jackal but won't say why... LOVE ME GODDAMN IT!!! IM NEEDY AND WANT HUGS... | ||
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On March 27 2011 03:13 annul wrote: bum said he will trust us IG players in using our behind the scenes PMing and the IG quicktopic, without needing to give our reasons if it will hurt how we play IG later. so, he has my FOSes. shouldn't need reasons. I don't understand how this is a good idea... The IG players have basically nothing more to go on than the main thread players today. In further nights/days once powers have been used and players have been dropped then yes our PM circle is more powerful. But today all we know are our alignments, items and roles. The only information we can share are those three things. So how can the PM circle know any more than the main thread does? Sure we can make plans on how to use our items but then again people can steal. Also the PM circle is not working with all of it's members. For a start the forum is not being used. SO how can Bum rely on a circle that is really just a crooked line? Also if you think that Bum should rely on the IG PM guys to work things out then doesnt it make sense for you to out your reasons to me? How does working on your own in the circle count as the circle working together? | ||
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'I'm really really good just trust me for no reason'? Coagulation: Coagulation United States. March 27 2011 03:38. Posts 4510 IF TOWN DOESNT TAKE MY WORD AT THIS POINT THEY ARE THROWING OUT AN ADVANTAGE. How is that an argument that town should follow? I believe the whole point of scum is to have people who give you advice and you just 'take their word' Anyway you say you know Lemon for several centuries and I accept that this might in fact be very useful for town. However: #1 This is his first game of mafia. You've never seen him behave like a mafia before. #2 If you have and i quote 'hundreds' of town tells from him the why won't you out them. I don't understand why if you have this proof that he is town you can't share it with us. And we do understand that you have a good read on them. However the game isn't called follow Coagulations good reads. We need to assess your abilities and we need to assess you alignment. So far you've given me 'i'm good just trust me'... Annul you said: annul United States. March 27 2011 03:40. Posts 1499 its because for all intents and purposes, IG is a mini mafia game. bum trusts our analysis. he knows there is lots of stuff behind the scenes that isn't obvious to the entire game. What is this behind the scenes stuff? Where are the scenes? Currently we have hidden talks going on in a PM circle which are resulting in people clamoring that they have DEFINITE answers. You yourself are being FOSsed in this game and yet you're insisting that closed doors are the best solution. There is nothing going on in the IG at the moment that is obscured from the main game. In later days there may be some interesting mechanics at work what with items being stolen and items being used. But for today there are vague claims being made based on what has been said in this thread. You seem to want to get lynched by terrific trio because you want to keep a secret that doesnt exist. @Bum Please do use the input from the item game. But judge it for what it is, use the input from the main thread players and then vote what you feel is right. Talk to the other blues about. In no way should you auto-vote based on this group of IG players. I have stated why before and i'll list it for you again. We have a tunneler, a self-confirmed and a master of secrets. They seem like heroes from Mystery Men. | ||
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GMarshal: I claim town Tackster: Me too GMarshal: But I know that I am town Tackster: Reasonable point. I admit defeat **Town Wins** And now to poke fun against the guys I'm trying to get answers from: Annul: I claim town Jackal: Me too Annul: Can I be mayor? Jackal: From your scumtells I can tell you are mafia Annul: Are you sure? Jackal: Trust me, I am pro Annul: Ok **Mafia Wins** | ||
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I would ask that (as you stated i believe) you find out why i am being accused of scum. If the argument is that this is a general consensus then you can read back to see that: #1 it has not in fact always been consensus(annul and darmo were not in on this to begin) #2 the IG provides no information that the main thread doesnt have and as such any consensus in the IG is dependant on what is said in this thread anyway #3 there is definite band wagoning going on Now i'm not going to be on for long so i'm going to try and keep this brief yet detail the important stuff. Bum please find out if there's any more information then what is in the main thread. It seems people in the IG are FOSsing because of what is said in the main thread as this is their only source of information. If so this information is no more useful then everyones ideas. If there is more information available (which i doubt) analyze it and discuss it with your circle. If there is information in there detailing me as scum (which i dont think there can be especially as jackal has admitted i may not in fact be scum) then probe it for fallacies which there will be. Please ask for votes from people not in the IG anyway. I think you'll see that I have some believers in the main thread and that must give me some weight, however little. Lastly do try and read through the events today carefully as there have been many good points made and we need to decide on strategy as well. My vote on who is mafia in the IG would be [boldJackal[/bold]. He seems to have sown much dissent. He has given baseless arguments. He has claimed secret information no one else is privy to. He is obviously tunneling without a reason. His arguments have clearly been 'trust me because i am right'. Many people in the thread here in fact feel he is untrustworthy and generally wrong in his lynches. Please get individual information for why people are calling me scum. There really is no basis to this argument. I hope that other's will defend me between when i log off and when night 1 begins. Lastly - I assume no one will bother making these claims anymore but being lynched night 1 will in no way put me off paying mafia on the forums so please dont let that influence your vote. I may be new but im not a baby. I'll be on for a while longer tonight. I look forward to the morning to see if I still can use the game as an excuse to not do work! | ||
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Jackal58 United States. March 27 2011 05:25. Posts 963 Doesn't matter how he flips. I'm shooting you tonight. Jackal you couldn't possibly say more anti-town things in one single game... | ||
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On March 27 2011 06:08 Coagulation wrote: WE HAVE PLANS SET IN MOTION TO CONFIRM EACH OTHER IF YOU HAVE TO LYNCH JACKAL DO IT DAY 2 FOR FUCKS SAKE. Says two of you with no proof. | ||
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and i were to agree you did analysis on them - which you didnt, you just said 'look scum' and left it there you still are referencing PMs that occured AFTER you FOSsed me. You haven't mentioned any material from before you made your mind up. | ||
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Jackal is saying he's certain because you three are totally confirmed Coagulation United States. March 27 2011 06:08. Posts 4518 WE HAVE PLANS SET IN MOTION TO CONFIRM EACH OTHER IF YOU HAVE TO LYNCH JACKAL DO IT DAY 2 FOR FUCKS SAKE. That quote says you havent confirmed shit | ||
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Coagulation United States. March 26 2011 14:32. Posts 4518 See your acting scummy over and over again i have pointed it out i will point it out here in this pm you just sent everyone. YOU DONT GIVE AN OPINION AT ALL ON WHO YOU THINK IS SCUM. YOU EXPECT EVERYONE ELSE TO TELL YOU WHO IS SCUM. BIG FLUFFY PM THAT ADDED 0 INFORMATION. Super scummy #1 That PM first of all clearly states that i'm opening an avenue of communication. #2 I'm hardly going to discuss scum tells with a PM thats going to EVERYONE in the circle #3 Others in the IG can confirm I in fact have discusses my FOSses with them. Annul, lemon and darmo have definitely heard my opinions on the matter. On the other hand Jackal replies to my saying 'you're scum' and you surprisngly enough did not reply... | ||
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Actually i was posting loads during this thread before I went to bed. I sleep therefore I am mafia? Ask deconduo - he's my room mate. Think mafia have a huge plan to trick people through my dreams? Besides if you have reasons to think it's me then how come you just said you couldnt tell cos i was inactive? @Tnkted - i like hate your analysis for the reason that when i flip green i suddenly aren't smart... But anyway if i were town i would behave the same If Jackal were town he would behave differently Can you agree with that tnkted? | ||
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I'll go find it for you | ||
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Tackster Ireland. March 26 2011 14:34. Posts 102 Lol my PM asked for people to actually converse with me. You're either seeing scum where you want to or trying to create problems for town. Thanks for outing that btw I think it shows how reasonable I am! As a townie I am sitting tight till i get more information... And you should too 11 Hours Later!!! Jackal58 United States. March 27 2011 01:01. Posts 968 On March 27 2011 00:51 Insanious wrote: So... Jackal you do realize YOU and darmousseh are the ONLY players in the item game that have NOT shown that they know what the town alignment PM is... So basically YOU and darmousseh DID NOT GET ONE. You are a normal townie, sit tight, you'll get your role in 24 hours Townie is in green. Twinkle toes told me to look in role PMs Then said Oh sorry I meant alignment PMs. that's when I quit playing his game. It's bs any ways. Not copied - typed out. Sit tight while I nail your scummy ass to the wall. | ||
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@tnkted - I didn't have the weakest reputation in the IG. You're getting your chronology messed up It goes: I was active and thoughtful. People thought I was town. I received no fosses. The other 2 in question that arent in the 'confirmed' circle both got fossed . . . i went to bed . . . Jackal outs that I'm scum and MUST be lynched. He says he has cleared towns (3 of them). He offers no proof that i am mafia but insists i am 100% mafia. . . . The other 2 'confirmed' fos me in a sheepish way . . . Before I even returned people started defending me . . . I returned and defended myself as any good towny would . . . Jackal admits he doesn't know i'm mafia but apparently i'm the most lynchable (Not true) Coag admits the 3 clears arent clear at all the vote from the IG is 3 for me and 3 for jackal. NONE of this scumminess was evn mentioned before jackal decided i was scum I was never an fos or a lynch target before that. In fact the 2 others jackal fosses were... | ||
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I think we can all agree that Jackal is behaving extremely wildly. He also claims he has a KP. When I pop up green to we really want to see jackal shoot another confirmed 'mafia'? | ||
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"annul you ask for the post and then you say you dont want it...." I was typing the post as you replied. didn't see you admit to the mistake till i hit send. | ||
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I'd like to point out that i've gotten up and now i'm posting. That doesn't mean that when i finished posting i went inactive - it meant i was sleeping. Surprisingly I need to make that clear to some people so they don't accuse me… Anyway from what I've gleaned there's no vote tonight. Instead we have to figure out if we need to medic anyone and Jackal claims to be a vig with a shot aimed tonight. Because Jackal has been insisting he's going to shoot tonight and given that I feel he may shoot me i'm going to disclose my item so that town knows what it is if i die: From: LSB Banking Subject: Role PM Part 2 Date: 3/25/11 11:04 You got an Item! Mood Ring- Hmmmm, a mood ring? You can use the Mood ring to investigate another player’s alignment during the night. That's the entirety of my stupid item. I mean yes a DT check is pro town but I've seen an exploding potato and a stun gun with multiple abilities so i feel pretty annoyed that i'm a detective that probably won't get to detect... Btw. the reason the subject is part 2 is that the first PM linked to quicktopics - the other IG players can confirm this for all you paranoids out there. Now to begin some assessment. It's been outed (if not confirmed) that the plans in place are: #1 Jackal and Coagulation are going to confirm each other somehow. #2 Lemon is assumed clear by Coagulation and Jackal seems to agree. #3 Assuming Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other then either annul or myself are scum Jackal also claims that he has a vig-style power or item. Knowing this mafia may wish to try and kill Jackal, Coag or both if one of them isnt mafia (or even if one is). Assuming we have 2 medics willing to cover both how are we going to coordinate that? Greens in the main thread cant PM!! And even then we may be covering a mafia... Now from the outset I have issues with this plan: On the assumption that both are alignment checking each other: If they use an item and are stolen from the use does not go through. If they use an ability and are nerfed the power does not go through. Assuming coags stun gun exists it does not have protection from being stolen and hence cant guarantee a non-nerf. Now i'm not of course saying that trying to confirm each other is a bad idea. Nor do I feel that trying this plan is bad. I'm saying that making the assumption that the plan will go through 100% and basing our behaviour around that is certainly a bad idea. An examination of all scenarios follow in the spoiler: + Show Spoiler + The plan goes through to perfection, no DT checks fail and the red have 2 KP. Coag isn't stolen from and his sun-gun prevents his death. Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Tack is shot and all other players are Green. Scum can shoot whomever they wish and so long as they don't manage to kill 4 people: town wins the IG Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Coag/Jack, an unconfirmed Lemon and a suspected Annul/Tack Scum use their KP to shoot Jackal. (Assume coag uses stun-gun) We now have no idea who is scum is as Coag can't be cleared. 3-man draw. Jackal and Coagulation confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Jackal/Coag, an unconfirmed Lemon and a suspected Tack/Annul Scum doesn't need to bother with KP. We're now in a position where we want to lynch a town. If he is lynched the mafia kill the 2 greens the next night. Mafia wins. Jackal and Coagulation don't confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Tack/Annul & Lemon, 2 unconfirmed. Scum shoot Tack/Annul and Lemon. We now don't know who is scum. 2-man draw. Jackal and Coagulation don't confirm each other. Lemon is assumed clear. A pro-town vig shoots either Annul or Tackster. Green is shot. We have remaining: 2 confirmed Tack/Annul & Lemon, 2 unconfirmed. Scum shoot Tack/Annul and Lemon. We now don't know who is scum. 2-man draw. The above examples detail the possible plays for each of us being the scum. In 4 of 5 cases a shot by a pro-town vig causes confusion and does not lead to a pro-town conclusion. If you read through the scenarios of the plan going perfectly depending on who is red: 1. The IG is won by green 2. The IG is won by red 3. There is a 3-man draw 4. There is a 2-man draw 5. There is a 2-man draw At best in the 4 scenarios (we only win for sure in 1) we have a draw between 2 people. As I understand it the first person to die will automatically win the IG for the other guy even if he dies as well. So if the first person to die is green then red team get the items whether or not the red player dies. In this case we have less information then red as red will know which player is town. We have to lynch in this scenario because if it goes to night then red can shoot first thing and auto-win the IG. So we have to lynch on a 50/50 chance... And remember this is all dependent on the plan going perfectly. Items can be stolen. Abilities can be nerfed. DTs can be framed. Drivers can throw abilities off. People in the IG can be tactically shot. The Godfather passes DT tests. So I repeat a plan that goes to perfection has a 1 in 5 win rate. And there's almost no chance this will go to perfection... All things considered I think it is important we have no town vig shots into the IG. I think I've made it very clear why this is important. Please make your agreement loud and clamorous. | ||
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Jackal58 United States. March 27 2011 05:24. Posts 989 I'll be honest and fair. Out of Tackster Annul and Darm 2 are scum. I picked Tack simply because I saw him as the easiest lynch. If you want to lynch darm I'm cool with that as well. The longer this has gone on the more I think annul is the town out of those 3. It is a numbers game. Some people seem to be following the plan put in place by the trio. I want to point out that jackal claimed he didn't have a reason to think I was the scummiest only the EASIEST LYNCH. Well apart from the fact that that has been proven false Jackals plan gives no reason as to why I'm scummier than Annul. In fact as he picked me for reasons that dont have to do with scum then annul was the one FOSsed before me and is therefore scummier. That's just a point on the strategy employed being stupid. I believe and I've said it before Annul has actually quite towny reads. I mentioned it before when the debate ended on whether or not Bum should be mayor: Tackster Ireland. March 25 2011 14:47. Posts 107 My 10 cents here - alot of that arguing with annul was me, i was trying to explain to him the flaws i saw anyway. But the important thing is he seems pro-town and is fighting for his case right or wrong. I mentioned he was confirmed, etc. I was exaggerating of course, but he may yet be town. Possibly we should try and lynch scum over annoyances? You realise you are suggesting we lynch a player in the mini-game right? Also annul made some pretty pro-town messages when he though he was getting shot: annul United States. March 27 2011 15:31. Posts 1571 and if you ARE town, you're fucking retarded and you probably just cost us the item game. On March 27 2011 15:29 annul wrote: are you actually public night vig? if so, i need to dump info quickly I also want to insert a message here @Annul. You claimed special 'secret' information from the PM circle. As was obvious you outed your PMs and there was absolutely no information that anything was going on except people were basing there opinions on what was going on in the thread anyway. Why keep a secret when a. There is no secret & b. It doesn't help town anyway... Lastly I was accused of behaving scummy by Kav. Kavdragon United States. March 27 2011 15:45. Posts 558 Tackster looks really scummy from those PM's if you ask me. Why would a townie claim? It seems much more likely that scum (can't be black anymore) would claim green, because they aren't thinking about the fact that everyone is passively claiming green in the item game. (Cause, you know...If you're not green...) Not working with Annul until he's "confirmed"? Wtf? That's not how it works! You PM people, and make plans so that you can analyse what they are doing! You don't ignore them, waiting for some magical confirmation that they are town! Why would a townie claim? Because I was making a point about trying to confirm each other were green. Your scumtell there is the fact that i mentioned a colour... Not really a scumtell... As you can see in Annul's posts of his PMs (and I can post them again if you want) I didn't refuse to talk to him or gauge his reactions. I simply stated that I'm not going to consider working together until we're both clear. It's a simple point - just because you clear someone doesn't mean you can trust working with them as they haven't cleared you and may be lying to you if they think you're scum. I would refer you to: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=3974110 As I was beginning my first game of forum mafia I read up on the Tips forum pages and so on. As you can see that post describes my behaviour from a mafia POV. I simply decided it works for town as well. Am I scum for trying to learn from more experienced players? So as far as my reads go I know i'm green and I feel that annul is pretty green as well. That means that if I am correct either Jackal or Coag are scum and have gone with this entire plan just so that they could confuse things and end up in one of the pro-scum situations I mentioned earlier. If lemon is scum then he's having a really good first game. In case I die tonight I want to make this clear for tomorrow: ##FOS Jackal again. Even if he isn't scum he still is going to bollox up this game for town. I think no pro-town vigs should shoot tonight. I would LOVE medic protection tonight but I imagine I won't get any. As usual my afternoon begins when this thread dies down so I'll try and check in every so often and see where this whole mess is going... | ||
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As you can see from annuls outing of his posts I did indeed talk to him, assess his reads, give him some preemptory reads of mine and check him in general. | ||
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On March 28 2011 00:21 Jackal58 wrote: The secret he revealed is you let slip you received a PM from RoL. And as a first time player it's fascinating that you would be picking the "how to play scum tips" to determine how to play. The thread is 'Teamliquid Mafia Forum Game Rules and Tips'. Referenced on basically every mafia thread in this forum. The post regards scum players. I said that I thought this would work for green as well. Read thoroughly before you make accusations. As for the RoL post - as you can see I clearly explain it's a mistake on my part. As you should know because you sent me that PM: From: Jackal58 Subject: Item game Date: 3/26/11 05:33 So who is red and who is black? And btw that isn't the 'secret'. There is no secret. Annul was simply claiming that IG players were privy to mechanics the main thread weren't. As insanious pointed out quite well that argument only stands when the PM circle is comprised of only town. In this case we have a PM circle that can be leaked to black and red as well. | ||
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From: Jackal58 Subject: Item game Date: 3/26/11 05:33 So who is red and who is black? To: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 12:41 The question of the day... lemon we have little to go with, darmo is back and i'm catching up on his meta, coag, you and annul are the ones i have opinions on. Why should I trust you? Any thoughts? From: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 12:42 Somebody hasn't read the thread. To: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 12:42 catching up on it now From: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 12:43 You're not going to like me man. To: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 13:23 Insane <- Mafia is definitely where you belong Just got to your utterly unproven, unresearched undefended plan to auto-win the IG on your word alone... Still some pages to go you mad, mad man From: Jackal58 Subject: Re: Item game Date: 3/26/11 13:25 You scum. Dunno if it's black or red but you scum. To: Jackal58 Subject: RE: Item Game Date: 3/26/11 14:14 OK Guys there is obviously a circling of wagons going on here... I'm PMing this to all mini-game players with a pearl of wisdom: THERE IS SCUM IN THE MINI-GAME We each need to rely on our OWN opinions and we need to realise that strategy is going to win the mini-game not dumb luck. So I expect everybody in the mini-game to reply to this PM and evaluate me using my bloody opinion as well... 2 of us are mafia and they will be the one's sowing dissent and FOSsing the others. We need to work out our Steal/Defend/Use strategy, we need to try and assess item powers and get scum to slip. If you're all going to genuflect to Jackal veteran status and ignore me this is going to auto-fail for town. Also apart from Jackal and Coagulation I don't really see many IG related posts. The mayorship is seems basically decided, right now the only 2 worries are how will we handle this mini-game and how will we out the scum. Yours Expectantly, A backstabbed green From: Jackal58 Subject: Re: RE: Item Game Date: 3/26/11 14:21 If you're green Darm and annul are scum. It's not a bad thing to die for 2 scum. To: Jackal58 Subject: Re: RE: Item Game Date: 3/26/11 14:27 Which i'm perfectly willing to do but i do have questions: 1 - how do i know you aren't scum? 2 - how do you know that coag and annul are then clear? 3 - do you have any strategy suggestions for the mini-game or are you just interested in playing russian roulette with no plan? After that I got no reply from jackal. And is plainly visible there was 0 scumhunting on his part... | ||
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On March 28 2011 00:36 chaoser wrote: I call bullshit on the whole "it was a mistake on my part I mixed them up". No fucking way is RoL anywhere close to Jackal. Not to mention he's not in the item game. I bet you looked at your PM box, wrote the first name at the top cause you weren't looking too carefully to make up a lie and it just happened to be RoL. If someone shoots Tack/we decide to lynch him tomorrow and he flips red, we gotta take a look RoL. This unfortunately is the point where I do in fact have to claim a mistake based on the fact it's my first game. Early on RoL started making claims that we should elect him, he would scum hunt all the scum to death, his reads are amazing, blah blah blah Then Jackal came up with his plan that fits in exactly with RoL's behaviour. So I accidentally confused the two as they were playing similarly. Anyway the whole point behind my mentioning the PM for RoL/Jackal is that he asked the same question of me (same wording and everything) as Annul. For that reason I asked annul whether he received/sent that message to Jackal(who i called RoL) to check if they were in cahoots. Go check annuls posts -he basically states he asked Jackal that who seeming to like it, used it on other IG players... | ||
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LSB would it be ok if I publish a screenshot of my inbox to prove a mistake i made? It contains no other information relevant to the game - it only shows I have been exclusively PMing IG players hopefully he says yes and this stupid argument can be put to sleep. | ||
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If I did make a mistake and use the wrong name why is it more likely that I used a name from another PM and not a name from the main thread? When I started all your names looked like the similar the non-referenced gibberish all over the internet. Now that the game has gotten further I can finally remember (some) of the names of people in this forum. | ||
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When I started all your names looked like the usual non-referenced gibberish all over the internet Ya - i said it | ||
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I confirm I haven't broken any rules....yet | ||
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My item allows me to at any time force all scum players to reveal their roles to me via PMs. I implement it now... | ||
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On March 28 2011 01:44 Jackal58 wrote: Because you're scum. You claim to be new. You're not new. You're a smurf. Who are you Tack? Ver again??? LSB made if fairly clear in the OP he wanted some smurfs. He wanted smurfs that told him who they were. You're one of them. You are most assuredly no noob. It's also interesting you so easily dismiss your item. A mood ring. Used to check alignments Funny how the black team got a similar item. Who needs DT's if there is only one scum faction? Town. Who needs DTs if there are 2 scum factions? Everybody. Interesting how darm was the CEO of the black faction. Interesting he had a DT item. You're the GF aren't you Tack? You are certainly no noob. You most assuredly didn't get confused because you don't know anybody's names. Who are you Tack? Foolishness? Ver? Qatol? Because you aren't a noob.. ROFL - you got me. I'm the most experienced mafia player to ever grace this fair forum. Im a smurf of a hugely powerful player so immense you can't begin to imagine him. I am in fact TL incarnate. I am JaeDong playing mafia on the forums... I've also confirmed myself to be deconduo's room mate which he went along with... Deconduo lives with these amazing mafia players and has never ever said... | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD USA. March 28 2011 02:07. Posts 3351 Jackal, why do you care if he is a smurf? It's completely a non issue. Do not be putting down my compliment dog. i'm a smurf of a playa with skillz | ||
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And lastly we rarely have dinner at the same time. | ||
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If i'm still alive tomorrow there's going to be a lot of posting needs doing! | ||
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On March 28 2011 10:38 tnkted wrote: well ken you have nothing to worry about if you're SCUM My guesses: I think item game players are gonna take a hit tonight. Jackal and coag and lemon are all dead. Assuming nobody protects anyone from the item game, and assuming that black and red all fire into it, the item game should end tonight or tomarrow, depending on who we lynch. We just have to be sure who the red is. Erm... Jackal and coag and lemon are all dead... where did you get that? I mean sure one of them is red but chances are the red will survive... If the other 2 are killed scum is obvious. That's my POV btw. Also I can't sleep. Day 2 come quick so i can go to bed goddamit | ||
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On March 28 2011 11:02 LSB wrote: Give me a few more secs, finding your pics is hard You have pictures of me... WEIRDO | ||
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You left yourself out O.o | ||
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I HATE YOU SCUM... you've made this so fucking hard now. Tomorrow morning im analyzing you into hell | ||
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On March 28 2011 11:10 Lanaia wrote: What... How did they make it any harder? Both those people were obviously town. In other news, there should have been more than two kills if mafia has two and third party has one, shouldn't there have been? If jackal and I are both FOSsed then we have to lynch one of us today. You know that debate will be huge and now my job has become harder. If they had hit me for instance town would be all over jackal. Why do you think i've been going on about me dying all last night? | ||
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On March 28 2011 11:19 tnkted wrote: fuuuuuuuuuuuuu What could this mean I wonder? And it looks like two people hit annul. Why didn't his item activate? Somebody must have stolen it before he could use it. From the sounds of it he activated the thing and stormed off. This means that somebody in the item game has the bomb. Vigs, medics, and the bus driver need to be very careful with touching item game members tonight. One person tried to hit someone else but failed (??). That could mean medics protected, or it could mean that they have an ability (or an item!) with a % chance of killing people. Apparently the bus driver confused a few people... are you notified when the bus driver switches you? I suppose its possible from the tone of the post that annul was switched with somebody else... but who would switch annul with? is the bus driver usually a mafia role or a town role? LSB destroyed the potato dude. I imagine this was due to the 'annul vs. RoL trial of March 2007'. | ||
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On March 28 2011 11:22 tnkted wrote: and i suspect the tack/jack debate got a lot simpler because i am certain that both of you were subject to DT checks during the night. Lets just see what bum says when he gets back online. You're right maybe i got overexcited. I was expecting to be shot by jackal (he said so many times and it may be the bus driver that redirected this). However I'm happy to be cleared. I'm just worried as to how people can clear me as in outing makes them targets... | ||
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IF the bus driver was used to 'save' me then probably Jackals and Coags confirmations of each other went through so either: Coag and Jackal did not in fact confirm each other. COag and Jackal confirmed each other and Lemon is scum. Remember that if we lynch a green today red have a HUGE chance at winning the item game. I have a day post analysis coming up. @Jackal: Can you please state two things clearly for me - can you tell me that you are 100% certain that I am scum and could you please confirm you think i'm a smurf again? If i get lynched i want to be able to quote that in my goodbye post for you when i flip green | ||
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Well, looks like people aren't really using their items well. Only one person was able to use his item. Only problem is that he found himself in the wrong place. He stood over the dead body of Annul and wondered what happened. And why was there two bullets when he only loaded one in his gun? And what's up with all the blood smeared on him? To me this says: #1 aren't using their items well = only 1 persons item was used OR people have mistaken what their item does? #2 Person who did use his item tried to shoot someone (it's phrased only problem…) #3 Wrong place is probably the driver #4 2 bullets means he was driven to the target which mafia also shot #5 blood smeared on him can either be he didn't mean to shoot that person or he didn't want to shoot at all Next up Gmarshal was minding his own business. Suddenly he was kidnapped and wrapped in duct tape. His kidnapper left. Then someone else came back with a gun, and shot him. #1 jailed or nerved in some way #2 Shot by someone else Given how I expect the red/blacks work I can imagine that red nerved him and black shot him? Is such a coincidence likely? Someone wasn't as sucess full at killing people. Another person started giggling at gifts he left people. Another person drove his bus around, confusing a few people. #1 someone was saved by medic OR someone was nerved #2 received a gift by someone giggling… he sounds suspicious #3 driver referenced above Rumors of the return of the true mayor has surfaced… wtf is this… Sounds like a green mayor with uber powers or something. possibly the source of green KP? The item was destroyed. LSB banking would not accept it. possibly LSB has removed this item from the game permanently as it was used? Lastly this criminal activity thing is annoying me. It may be linked to the ''true mayor' as in he gains laser eyes if the mafia get too strong. It may mean that mafia get bonuses as time goes on… | ||
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On March 28 2011 11:39 bumatlarge wrote: I have no idea about tackster, but I can tell you it has nothing to do with annul. Don't make baseless connections please. Tackster s most likely scum, but ranting and raving about things you don't know and throwing that "100%" around is NOT PRO-TOWN. Which is odd because this does confirm the rest of the IG players. Coagulation in a way is right and wrong. Let me put this as safely as possible. I know now tackster was protected, thank you coagulation. I am fairly certain it wasn't a town aligned person who did so. I am also very aware of why annul was shot by mafia, and I can't really comment more on that other then he dug his own grave, and scum benefited. Now coagulation, you may continue with your rant on why tackster is scum, because he is. Bum you're sound pretty certain about me there. You HAVE to recheck your facts, something is definitely wrong... | ||
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Apart from the rushing very little of the possible information gleaned has even been analysed AND Bum hasn't voted just stated something... So in case I die remember this post and remember how chaoser reacted!! | ||
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On March 28 2011 11:45 tnkted wrote: Tack if you flip green we're lynching the shit out of jackal. And annul, I knew you were green the whole time. <3<3 When i flip green then the first thing red are going to do tomorrow night are kill the remaining greens. As this goes in chronologically if they do it at a few seconds after the vote (which they'll be ready for as they know who has the most votes). 2 greens + 2 red KP = scum win the IG... | ||
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On March 28 2011 11:46 Jackal58 wrote: What do you need to hear? Bum and his 3 other cops called him scum. Coags bussed shot called him scum. Why are you scum? If you are the town remember how you've been acting the whole game. You incessant tunneling is what leads to greens losing the IG and you are doing your side NO FAVORS. All you've done is say 'this is my plan i'm sticking with it no matter what'. To be honest if you got a red on someone else in the IG you probably would still want to lynch me because your plan is more important to you then checking the evidence. Anyway - as more people post there WILL be more information. I have more information for instance and I will out it when more people have read the d1 post and are ready to start deliberating. 3 votes in the first hour and we have 48 hours to check evidence. Way to keep your minds open. | ||
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Damn you forum mafia! Night all and sleep well. Jackal/Coag/Bum - i hope you gain some clarity of vision before i next return. | ||
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1. Steal =/= Scum First off I don't understand how stealing from Jackal makes me scummy. I do not want to get shot at night and do not want town to lose the item game no matter if i'm green or red. So if there is a chance i'm going to get shot I of course am going to try and stop that happening. Now I mentioned MANY times that I thought I would get shot by Jackal. It makes sense for me as town to try and steal his gun to stop this happening. The fact that he wasn't the shooter doesn't change anything either. By jackals argument if I was green should I have let myself get shot or something? What would any other green do in my position? Anyway I did steal from Jackal - here is what I got: From: LSB Banking Subject: Item Game Date: 3/28/11 11:13 Success You got Jackal's Item! Current Items Mood Ring- Hmmmm, a mood ring? You can use the Mood ring to investigate another player’s alignment during the night. Bandages- Yay Medic! You got Bandages. You can use it protect someone at night, including yourself! 2. No one is confirmed My next point is that the other three cannot have confirmed each other. It has been stated very clearly that LemonWalrus is cleared only through Coagulations say so. More to the point jackal claimed this as his plan: Coag I have a plan. Here it is. 1 I make a post claiming you I and LW are town. 2 We lynch one of the other 3. 3 If he's red it's going to take longer to win IG. 4If he's green it's going to take much longer. 5 If he's black we win IG on night 2 6 I claim I have gun repeatedly. 7 I create shit storm around me to find who defends scum who doesn't End of part 1 8 Annul quit game. 9 We all use our items. 10 Tack steal from me. 11 Coag shoots Tack If it wasn't for those damn meddling kids in their bus we would have pulled it off flawlessly. Now we have to use a lynch. In this plan there is the assumption that Jackal/Coag/Lemon are green. Given that it covers 'one of the other three' this must be a post from before I was officially FOSsed by Jackal which means that there was NO WAY for these three to confirm each other. Now last night: 1. Jackal has his non-checking item stolen 2. Coag used his non-checking item 3. Lemon used his non-checking item Now let me remind you that Coag and Jackal had a plan to confirm each other. This plan seemed to exclude Lemon. That automatically means this plan isn't foolproof as Lemon has never been confirmed. But we all know that anyway. The only way that Coag and Jackal can confirm each other is if addition to their items they have both have alignment checking roles (how unlikely is that?). But even if they have roles then because Coag was bussed he couldn't possibly confirm Jackal as his check would be on me. Btw if he did check me he'd see I was green and this would all drop which is just more evidence but that is only my POV. Therefore I feel this is EXTREMELY STRONG EVIDENCE that Coag and Jackal have in no way confirmed each other. At best Jackal may have confirmed coag with his miracle role-checking role that 4 of 6 IG players don't have… If Coag and Jackal don't confirm each other then this definitely throws all of their 'plans' and 'conclusions' into doubt. 3. My scum team bussing Annul is stupid Apparently if I am scum and my team bus Coags shot onto Annul then that 100% confirms me as scum. If that is the case this is a TERRIBLE plan for mafia. Why do something so obvious? I can see an argument there for what else should I as scum have done. Here it is: Why would I bus to annul? Annul claimed he was out of the game and outed his item power which affects me NOT AT ALL. If bussing annul makes it so certain that I am scum then I may as well bus to Lemon. That way I stop him from using his item, kill a 'cleared' player and still don't have to worry about the afk annul affecting me in any way. Bussing a shot to annul seems like a shitty choice. If mafia did shoot annul why would i bus to the player my team shot? [b]How stupid is that?[b] Bum says he has info on that but as nothing has been outed I leave this point open. Red has an interest in the item game and black doesn't. It makes sense that the kill on GMarshall was therefore by black. That uses up all their KP so I imagine all the stuff in the item game was blue/red/green. Just reinforcing the previous point. When I stole from Jackal it was in hopes he had the gun. The fact that coag was bussed doesn't mean i'm in cahoots. The chances that would happen are only 50/50. Scum could easily have chosen to bus Jackal. While I know it doesn't help my case it doesn't 100% confirm it anyway. FMPOV it only shows scum reads better than me Or does it? 4. Jackal can easily be mafia. Remember: - no one is confirmed - Jackal made up the plan - Jackal didn't have the gun If Jackal is red then it makes sense for him to urge Coag to shoot me, especially with how the day FOSses went. The scum comes up with a clever plan. If I die when i flip green Jackal is the obvious lynch. If instead scum busses coag onto Annul then this furore explodes where i need to be lynched. In this situation Jackal is on top - the bus makes me look scummy, he isn't shot by the weapon and coag accuses me. Any argument that it was better to steal the weapon fails on the fact that if the weapon is stolen the shot doesn't go through! Jackal was hoping I'd steal from him SO THAT THERE WOULD BE A SHOT. I will point out that the bus WAS on the shot. That makes it more likely (nowhere near confirmed but definitely more likely) that the person bussing knew who had the shot. Which is Jackal and not me. Now I admit it's possible that coagulation or lemon are scum. However for coag to shoot the person and bus himself is too alien to consider. For Lemon to be planning all this in his first game is possible given he has a PM circle - but seems unlikely. 5. The IG is in grave peril The IG is in peril of being lost. I assume and LSB can confirm me (I've said this before like 3 times at least) that the last player standing chronologically wins his team the items. So making the assumption I'm green: - I get lynched and flip green - scum use their 2 KP to kill the other greens - Red is last one standing and therefore red team get the items Remember even if red dies so long as he is last to die his team wins the items. Now I know we have medics. And I know that Lemon has (or claims) a vest. But we don't know what roles are out there. Jackal can steal Lemons vest to stop it working. Scum may be able to nerf abilities or multi-shoot. It's all unknown. This is a very perilous situation and we need to put in hard work to not lose the hours we've put into trying to win this mini-game. --- I also have a sub point here about Lemons vest. The items list we have is: 1) A Role Checker 2) An Alignment Checker 3) A bomb (potato) 4) A gun 5) A medic style item 6) A medic style item This is insane mafia. Even though 2 of the other items are similar they are not identical. So why do we have a vest and bandages that seem to do the same things? Is that likely? Of course my item can protect others where as Lemons possibly does not need to be used. Either way I'm saying this is a tentative point to analyze. Now to the conclusions: 1. The other three IG players have in no-way confirmed each other 2. The fact that they are so sure of themselves without confirmation throws their judgement into question - green or not. 3. Jackal can easily be scum. The plan is clever but also strong and something red could have come up with. They didn't even need to come up with it before jackal decided on his 'plan' because as he is such a tunneler they probably just decided to make the most of it 4. The IG is in great peril. All evidence has to be scrutinized, all votes have to be carefully considered 5. My stealing Jackals item in NO WAY makes me scummy. It was in fact the town thing to do. Please read through this. Mention any fallacies. Appreciate any truths. Jackal/Coag when you start screaming about these points in ALL CAPS could you also mention concrete reasons for why anything I've said was wrong. P.S. As you can see instead of sleeping I have spent the night awake. I have classes I can't miss today and work to do this afternoon. So I probes won't start posting again after i go to uni for about 12 hours. And needing sleep I may not be on long tonight. I'm not lurking - I just unfortunately have a life | ||
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On March 28 2011 14:46 Coagulation wrote: ARE YOU SERIOUS? SCUM IS GONNA PROTECT YOU BECAUSE ITS BETTER YOUR ALIVE AND SUSPICIOUS THAN DEAD AND OUT OF THE GAME. ITS AN ALL IN. SCUM HAD NO CHOICE. But i explained the better option underneath Mr. All Caps. The only way what happened is a better option is to scum me up... You're basing everything on your UNFOUNDED trust on Jackal. And you refuse to even consider alternatives... C'mon man try an be pro town please! | ||
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On March 28 2011 14:57 Coagulation wrote: Now to the conclusions: 1. The other three IG players have in no-way confirmed each other Your in no way confirmed either Moot point. Not to mention I STILL have the ability to CONFIRM JACKAL after we lynch you. Another moot point because he will be confirmed when you flip red 2. The fact that they are so sure of themselves without confirmation throws their judgement into question - green or not. Ok fantastic this doesnt help you at all. 3. Jackal can easily be scum. The plan is clever but also strong and something red could have come up with. They didn't even need to come up with it before jackal decided on his 'plan' because as he is such a tunneler they probably just decided to make the most of it Ok but how does this prove your green in the slightest.. you have given 0 information for town to attempt to work with. you just repeat over and over jackal could be scum. thats fantastic why dont you try coming up with a plan like jackal did why dont you try dumping information that town wants to know in the thread like jackal did. 4. The IG is in great peril. All evidence has to be scrutinized, all votes have to be carefully considered your mafia teams chance at getting the items are in peril 5. My stealing Jackals item in NO WAY makes me scummy. It was in fact the town thing to do. Yes stealing the item makes you scummy. you had been PMing annul about wanting to steal an item long before anyone mentioned a gun. your arguments again do nothing to make you look green and is purely based on "im innocent omg" Ok Coag let's take this point by point: 1. The other three IG players have in no-way confirmed each other Your in no way confirmed either Moot point. Not to mention I STILL have the ability to CONFIRM JACKAL after we lynch you. Another moot point because he will be confirmed when you flip red - I believe I put forth strong evidence for my point. You are the one that has not put any evidence forward that you can confirm. - You say it is moot whether or not you guys are confirmed - that is simply not true for obvious reasons - Having the ability to confirm Jackal AFTER you lynch me is not a good reason to lynch me - The fact that you need me to flip red in fact makes it extremely non-moot 2. The fact that they are so sure of themselves without confirmation throws their judgement into question - green or not. Ok fantastic this doesnt help you at all. - You're saying your quality of judgement does not affect town's choice to follow your lead? 3. Jackal can easily be scum. The plan is clever but also strong and something red could have come up with. They didn't even need to come up with it before jackal decided on his 'plan' because as he is such a tunneler they probably just decided to make the most of it Ok but how does this prove your green in the slightest.. you have given 0 information for town to attempt to work with. you just repeat over and over jackal could be scum. thats fantastic why dont you try coming up with a plan like jackal did why dont you try dumping information that town wants to know in the thread like jackal did. - First of all I have been analyzing all game and posting plenty of ideas on what strategies to use inside and outside of the item game. I in fact had a conversation in thread on whether we should all agree to steal, defend, use. I constantly PMd you to discuss strategy. You on the other have followed this 'plan' without giving any real information out ever or considering any other possibilities. - The fact Jackal can be scum implies I can be green. You never admit this and keep calling me 100% mafia - I have in fact been playing as pro-town as possible. I have given several reasons in the post you're quoting for why i'm not mafia such as the fact that if I was mafia I highlighted better plans to follow such as the one you mentioned just 2 posts ago 4. The IG is in great peril. All evidence has to be scrutinized, all votes have to be carefully considered your mafia teams chance at getting the items are in peril - This isn't in fact a point just another stubborn claim 5. My stealing Jackals item in NO WAY makes me scummy. It was in fact the town thing to do. [b]Yes stealing the item makes you scummy. you had been PMing annul about wanting to steal an item long before anyone mentioned a gun. your arguments again do nothing to make you look green and is purely based on "im innocent omg" - I never once mentioned stealing an item to annul. Go prove it as I just checked my inbox and cant find anything near to that - I answered the second point earlier Now are you willing to make some real points? | ||
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On March 28 2011 15:01 chaoser wrote: By jackals argument if I was green should I have let myself get shot or something? What would any other green do in my position? Yes. You would want to get shot. Why? Cause if you flipped green, it'd be 1/4 chances of catching mafia in the item game. Since annul got shot, it would be 1/3 chance. You not dying made today be about you v Jackal again. If you had died, it would have been Jackal on the chopping block since it was his plan. Or we start looking at LW. If I was in your situation, I would have used my item to check Jackal or maybe LW, not steal some shit. Townies don't care much for living, only that they can somehow help town win. You say if I flipped green it would have been 1:4 chance of catching mafia and 1:3 cos annul was shot. #1 How would I know annul would be shot and hence take that into account? #2 If i died it would be Jackal on the chopping block... Or LemonWalrus... So eventually you will get around to Or coag/Or annul right? #3 If I DT check when I'm getting shot how exactly do I reveal that information to town? You're saying if I think i'm getting shot I should dt check and then let myself die. 2. No one is confirmed No one is ever confirmed unless they're dead. There's no such thing as confirmation of alignment, even DTs can be insane and give wrong reads. The fact of the matter is, Jackal came out and FoS-ed you. His actions compared to your actions, in my head, shows that he is more town then you are. His plan makes sense while you haven't done a single thing for town. Your posts have been basically copies of other people's posts, and until Jackal FoSed you, you didn't give a single FoS or analysis of anyone else. You merely defended Bum's blueness, you didn't even call out annul as scum. First of all read my posts before you call them copies. Second I have suggested strategies in and out of the IG all game Third if no one is ever confirmed why are those three constantly confirming it and making decisions BASED ON THOSE CONFIRMATIONS? Why would I bus to annul? Annul claimed he was out of the game and outed his item power which affects me NOT AT ALL. Annul was pretty much going to be read as town. RoL's stupid little gambit worked and annul's reaction was that of a town thinking he was dead, not of mafia. Mafia take things to the grave on the off chance something they said gives shit away, townies don't. That being said, it's better to get rid of a green that everyone knows is a green and then try to argue against someone who is less "confirmed" like Jackal. You obviously haven't read my post properly. I said a better bus would be to lemon. You havent mentioned why that is wrong 4. Jackal can easily be mafia. 5. The IG is in grave peril So making the assumption I'm green: - I get lynched and flip green - scum use their 2 KP to kill the other greens - Red is last one standing and therefore red team get the items Not true and a contradiction, if anything, I feel like IG is going to be won by town if both statements are true. It's just whether we have three confirmed townies or one. If you are green, you get lynched, it's 1 red, 2 green. We got medics, LW got a vest. If Jackal really is red like you said, then all we have to do is chill out, and tell LW to protect. It's a passive vest that makes him bullet proof. Mafia can't shoot into that shit. Black is lynched so he can't be black. Next day, we lynch Jackal. BOOM. Town wins IG. This is a matter of opinion. Feeling we lynch a town tonight is acceptable doesn't mean you should gamble with the vote anyway. Use some logic maybe? | ||
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On March 28 2011 15:20 GGQ wrote: Also, I was gonna point out what Chaoser or Coagulation pointed out above. If you are town, stealing Jackal's item was retarded. The town thing to do would be to role-check someone. If you lived or died, you would be giving the town some great information. The much simpler explanation is that you are red. By your standards: Situation 1: I DT check and get shot. Town now has more reason to lynch Jackal (GOOD) Situation 2: I DT check and some1 else gets shot. I 'claim' a check on Jackal that can't be confirmed and we end up in this situation. (BAD) Situation 3: I steal and get the gun. We're now in the same situation as yesterday except town gets to lynch instead of leaving the kill to someone else (VERY GOOD) Situation 4: I steal and don't get gun. I am shot. Same situation as 1. (GOOD) Situation 5: I steal and don't get gun. I am not shot. We are now in this position.(BAD) So a DT check either has 50% chance for the positive result you're looking for or 50% this situation comes up. A steal on the other hand has a 66% chance for a positive result or 33% this situation comes up. | ||
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On March 28 2011 15:27 Coagulation wrote: OK well for the sake of the thread not getting flooded with circular arguments this is what im gonna do Tackster is mafia. its my gut feeling and lemon walrus and jackals and annuls can you argue about me having a gut feeling tackster? didnt think so. im pretty sure i have raped enough scum as town to be given the time of die when it comes to town listening to my gut feeling. so that ends it. Well that's easy to argue - Logic > A gut feeling | ||
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On March 28 2011 15:25 chaoser wrote: Both are unlikely to you in the JACKAL MIGHT BE RED POST. Your post pretty much says that you think JACKAL is red. In that case, we got item game won since point number 5, which is you trying to scare people into not voting for you, is wrong. SEE! WE GOTS IT YO! So you're entire point there was rather than check any points I made just go with If we lynch tack maybe he's mafia If not we can gamble to hopefully win the IG I should just not try and defend myself and agree to gamble the IG away? Why don't you instead tell me why what I wrote is wrong. If in fact what I wrote leads to a conclusion where Jackal is the likely mafia we are STILL in the situation you mentioned + we used logic to get there = more likely we lynch mafia | ||
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On March 28 2011 15:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Oh I think I remembered the other part. From what I recall you don't answer this. If what you are saying is correct coagulation then Annul and Tack were bussed, meaning all night actions focused on one hits the other and vice versa. The first part of the bold seems to infer that he was shot twice. Once by you, and once by another. While the second part implies that you were the one who was bussed, because YOU are the confused one. So what you are saying can't follow a logical progression of thought. You hit Tack and the mafia bussed tack and annul to save him, meaning someone else would of also had to hit tack for Annul to have gotten shot twice. But if we accept those events then we have to ask ourselves why the third party (or mafia?) would hit tack while bussing him while KNOWING you were going to try to hit him too. Something just seems off, unless you can explain that and I misread something. You know you seem to be confusing bussing. However as the more experienced player I assume you're likely the right one. Bussing to me means: Player A targets Player B with abilities Player A is bussed to Player C Player A now targets Player C with abilities Bussing to you seems to me: Stuff happens to Player A Player A is bussed to Player B Stuff now happens to Player B instead By your definition what you said makes sense. By my definition someone shot annul. Coag aimed at me. Coag was bussed to annul. Coag shot annul. Hence 2 shots on annul. So which definition is right? | ||
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On March 28 2011 15:34 GGQ wrote: Also, re: bus driver. Just so no one is confused about what this role does: The bus driver picks two players. All abilities that target either of those two players during the night phase now target the other player instead. This means that, judging from the way the Day Post was written, the bus driver picked Tackster and annul. Since it seems like annul was shot twice, that means that two shots were used on Tackster, one of which came from coagulation. I played the bus driver as town in Harry Potter Mafia (to pretty good effect, I might add :D) but the driver role is more commonly a scum role, and (given that it spreads chaos and confusion) it is much more suited to scum. If this is how the bus driver works it does indeed imply I was shot twice. If one of these shots were scum that should help my case. Let's investigate this!! | ||
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On March 28 2011 15:37 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: My definition is the correct one on this forum. If A shot B but B was bussed with C then A would of actually have shot C. What you are referring to I only ever saw once in ExMiMa. I can't remember what DrH called it though. On epic mafia it's the other way. Happy to learn!! | ||
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On March 28 2011 15:43 GGQ wrote: Your logic is poor because you assume that each situation has an equal chance of playing out under each scenario. LOL actually I stated by your standards. I was being pessimistic. By my standards the chances are much higher... You realise you're implying the situation YOU suggested would be worse for town right? Lastly my stats would be poor not my logic and unlike the other players in this thread that can't confirm their abilities I can confirm when I state I am good at stats. Theoretical Physics is not an easy degree to get! | ||
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And yes I know that I can always unvote but I don't like the idea of deciding im totally right before the day is a quarter through. You're posts are so much nicer when they aren't in caps!! Beautiful handwriting | ||
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On March 28 2011 16:01 kevconsim wrote: i dont mean you personally got tricked I mean they tricked other people into believing that you are scum. Which you may or may not be. Tricked into being called scum when you are not ohhhhhhhhhh.... Ya dat happend dude... Dese scumz iz badass... | ||
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On March 28 2011 16:03 chaoser wrote: WRONG! It's not a gamble. If Jackal is red, like you think he is, then town wins the IG. The Two hits are LW and Coag for Mafia. They have two KP. We got a vest and lets say 2 medics (standard amount). 1 medic on Coag, 1 medic on LW. There's nothing mafia can do. At the most, they'll kill 1 town. Ok this game consists of mechanics we dont know about yes? so: framers nerfers drivers etc. + everything we don't know about Lemons vest is useless as it can be stolen. And there's always the chance that Coag or Lemon are scum... That isn't even close to auto-win | ||
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On March 28 2011 16:04 Coagulation wrote: And what evidence do you have that jackal is in fact red exactly? Coagulation have you been reading this thread? Have you seen how everyone is mentioning the Tackster or Jackal debate? You expect me to vote for myself man? | ||
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If i do flip green then who do you think is the scum? | ||
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On March 28 2011 16:08 Coagulation wrote: probably jackal Ok but you think I'm wrong to vote for him? I refer you to: And what evidence do you have that jackal is in fact red exactly? | ||
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It's just that it's been so hard up until now I was trying to make it easier for you. And your analysis is going to be trashed when i flip green. | ||
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On March 28 2011 16:16 Coagulation wrote: thats a risk im willing to take The risk you're taking is to assume you're decisions make sense and you're play style is conducive to winning. As many others have stated before. Try and reread what has been going on with an open mind. Now that you can admit the chance exists try and see if it's more probable then you've let yourself believe. Much better to check again than to gamble! | ||
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On March 28 2011 20:00 Rean wrote: He knew that you were gonna shoot Tack, he had nothing to fear from your gun. And stealing it would make it very obvious that either Jackal or himself were scum, since they were the only 2 knowing you had the gun rather then Jackal. On the other hand, he knows that if his team just busses annul and Tackster he could easily put all the blame on Tackster. The obvious choice there would be to let you keep it. Agh you ninjad my answer!! BTW I said this earlier... Anyways posting from college so shhh!! | ||
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Ok to be honest guys I'm really confused - i don't know all the roles in forum mafia (mind control?) and while I accept tnkteds bus theory i'm a bit confused as to the logic after it... So I'm going to read all this for like the third time and get back to you with one of my thought out posts that Jackal and Coag keep saying have no content... But the important thing: I did not know that mood ring had been stolen until I got a PM from LSB: From: LSB Banking Subject: Correction Date: 3/28/11 22:54 Correction to the last PM. I forgot to take in account Annul's actions. Oh No! Your mood ring was stolen, at least you have the bandages. Current Items Bandages- Yay Medic! You got Bandages. You can use it protect someone at night, including yourself! This was sent to me at 22:54. My last post is at 20:17. I did not have this information at the time!! LSB posted the mood ring information out at 22:56 - 2 min after he PMd me. LSB can you please confirm for the game players that I was working off of incorrect information up until my last post? I think as I had no knowledge and this was an innocent mistake I should be cleared of any allegations that I hid the mood ring info from the game Well I hope that clears that up and I'll get back to analysis! | ||
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On March 29 2011 02:14 Jackal58 wrote: Unless the scum element has managed to infiltrate my beer supply not very likely. I love how everybody is all aboard the mind control bus. All that doesn't matter anyway. Coag said that if I flipped green he would assume you were the red. therefore you haven't confirmed each other if it is possible for you to be red... Assuming you confirmed each other coag would have said lemon... | ||
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If any blues or greens can somehow PM me please do so as soon as possible so I can out this information. If there are suggestions on another way I can let bum know please tell me. I'm not sure if this info is worth outing in case mafia get it so let me know before I have to decide to out it or not. I got this information by asking LSB a question in PM that I don't believe anyone else has asked. While it concerns the IG it does not concern any actions or persons in the game - only the IG mechanics. | ||
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BTW @LSB The OP links to day 1 is broken. Night 1 is labelled as Day 1. Whoops! Now i'm going to start giving what information I see as important/we should read into. I'm not bothering with other peoples POV, etc. cos im tired and just want to get this out. Night 0: - we got no real information except that Pandain may be the mysterious 'real' mayor Day 1: - Arbor day shootings were referenced. I wiki'd it as I haven't heard of it before. Found nothing of interest. Though it was a clue but it probes isn't. - Crim activity: Low <---- wtf is this??? Night 1: - Bum is mayor - Darmo is black CEO (IN YO FACE!!!) - Darmo lost role checker. We'll get it later - Crim activity: small <---- I'm starting to think this is a timer… I'm scared…. Day 2: - People aren't using their items well - Only 1 person used item - Item user shot annul by accident - Annul received 2 shots - GMarshal was kidnapped by someone - GMarshal was shot by someone - Someone's kill didn't go through - Someone's leaving 'gifts' - Bus was definitely used - The true mayor is returning <----- What kind of religious shite is this???? - Crim activity: Significant <---- We're all gonna die!!!! Results of Day 2: - GMarshal was town kingdom BG - GMarshal knew 'king' and the other BG - GMarshal was Mayors BG - Annul was a mafia miller - Annul had a hot potato - it was destroyed FOREVER so forget about using it - Annul stole my mood ring - I stole Jackals bandages | ||
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I don't know what this real mayor thing is about. Somebody start guessing. People aren't using their items well = Lemon. He 'used' his vest which was unnecessary Only one person used item = Coag by process of elimination Item user shot annul by accident = Coag Someone's leaving gifts = Hatter probs pro-town Bus was definitely used PROBABLY is tnkted Now let's assume that tnkted bussed bum and lemon as he said. Lemon turned up blue to the blue circle. That seems to confirm this. A shot failed last night. It is possible that the fail was on lemon and bussed to Bum. This is probably a red shot as black has no interest in the IG 2 shots turned up on annul. Given the way Coag's shot at annul was phrased it is EXTREMELY believable that a mind control was used or a similar ability. This explains that post PERFECTLY. However annul was shot again. As black have no interest in the IG this was either red or black. This also makes sense as far as the potato is concerned. We only found out the potato was destroyed on Day 2! This means that if annul was bussed by someone that night they could still realistically believe the potato would kill them. However it would not kill a mind control style power. Now Coag claimed that in a PM with LSB the host confirmed his gun was the town's KP. My problem is that as coag has been so willing to believe unconfirmed crap and lied before he might lie about this. So we need to take it with a pinch of salt. Anyway assuming this was the town KP then the 2 red KP are accounted for. If the 2 red KP are accounted for and the green KP then the black KP was used on either GMarshal or Kav. Let's put this on the burner for a second. I think there is a mason circle which is the 'town kingdom'. It HAD 2 BGs and a king that behaved similarly to mayor. They probes can PM each other. The way GMarshals Role n1 is phrased: Hey Guess what? You're also the mayor's bodyguard! Big surprise yes? So to me this means that either it wasn't surprising this happened and that bum is also the 'king'. Or this is unlikely to happen and GMarshal was a BG in 2 circles!!! Let's keep this in mind. Now GMarshal was targeted twice. Once with a kidnapping and once with a shot. Given we have a good idea of his role while he was valuable he had no 'powers' as such. Because of this I imagine whoever kidnapped him did not role check him (when they would have role checked I don't really know anyway as only 1 night passed with powers in play. So it seems obvious that he was kidnapped and shot by 2 different factions. Kidnapping is such a scummy description that I'm sure it must have been black/red. As red is focussed on the IG a shot on GMarshal is unnecessary. I feel Red Jailed him as they had feelings he was a PR. This implies that Black shot GMarshal. This implies that either Kav was hit by an ability independent of KP or he is lying. That's my assessment on the shots so far. | ||
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Kav said he can prove if I stole: Kavdragon United States. March 28 2011 14:02. Posts 572 If I could provide proof that he stole the item, would the town decide that he is scum based off of that? (I'm not saying that he has or hasn't, only that I can find out.) This implies kav either: - Is a Vet AND can check item steals (wtf?) - Is on a PM circle where someone can make the check (still unlikely) - Is lying again This isn't looking good Kav - please reply to this. Next the Alignment PM I got was the sit tight one. I never got the twiddle your thumbs one. Therefore the twiddle your thumbs one was NOT sent out to all item game players. Look at how it's phrased: You are just a townie minding your own business. Twiddle your thumbs, try to seem clean or something. This seems to be a hint that annul is the miller. However Tnkted claimed to have received 2 alignment PMs. The sit tight one and the thumb twiddling one. If this is true this implies that Tnkted is both a driver AND a miller??? I don't see how that would happen… People have been mentioning that both Lemon and I are new and therefore can't come up with this amazing information. Remember that if Lemon is red he doesn't need to come up with squat - his red PM circle can tell him exactly what to do!! Is anyone going to consider a recruiting role? With this black could still win the IG. However LSB did state there were no traitors so I can't be sure. Lastly I absolutely have to point out how horrible coagulations play is: Coagulation United States. March 28 2011 15:30. Posts 4644 we decided if we just shot tackster there would be no need for confirmation when he flips red! He's saying why does he need to confirm Jackal or Lemon when he can just shoot me to confirm them… What a retarded load of shite Coag…. Ok - I'm off. Let's see what tomorrow brings!! | ||
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Red hit annul and Kav Red kidnapped GMarshal Black hit Gmarshal Green shot me OR: Red hit annul and GMarshal Black kidnapped GMarshal Blacks kill failed for some unexplained reason Kav is lying... | ||
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This whole stun-gun scenario has come up that somehow confirms 100% that I am scum… I don't see how this is true (in fact I know it isn't true) but everyone seems to have given up at this point and is just going with whatever is easiest… It's very sad that being active will lead people to be lazy but anyway here are some points: I DID think that jackal had the gun. Therefore it was assumed that when the mafia 'bussed' or 'controlled' coag they knew he had the stun-gun... Then the whole stun gun scenario came out. The assessment of this scenario is wrong: Coagulation claimed his stun gun. His made-up stun gun stuns anyone WHO VISITS HIM not anyone he visits!! So between bussing and controlling: 1. So if him and annul are bussed the only people that can visit coagulation ARE THE PEOPLE WHO VISITED ANNUL. - Why shoot annul and then bus annul and coag instead of just shooting coag if red did both? - If black did the bussing then they knew that red were visiting annul and wanted to muddy the waters! Blue knew red visited annul so it's all possible! But if black bussed then how am I scum? 2. If instead he was mind controlled to visit annul this does not count as annul visiting him and therefore the stun gun would not stun anyone! - Why is this good for me if I'm scum? - How does this imply I am scum anyway?? The only reason that this makes me scum is that scum made the same assumption I did - Jackal had the gun. But from the above if red thinks jackal has the gun then trying to misdirect cogs stun gun is USELESS!! So red has in no way played as though they thought Coagulation had the stun--gun. HOW IS THIS NOT OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE??? | ||
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On March 29 2011 07:31 Mr. Wiggles wrote: No, I'm just making a joke, because there's "rumors of the true mayor", and some kind of kingdom, so I think they're related and the "ruler" is the "true mayor", but Tackster posted that he thinks Pandain might be the "true mayor" when he isn't even in the game. :p I was just saying the character Pandain played in the Night 0 post could be the real mayor, not that pandain was himself in this game. | ||
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On March 29 2011 09:08 Lanaia wrote: Yeah, people who aren't in the game who keep posting are confusing people. See: Tackster. I'm tired of the lack of activity from most people. I know there are a few who are obviously not inactive, but I'm really bothered by it. It's things like that which make people like me unable to read others. I know we can't just assume all of those people are scum (I'm sure not EVERY scum would lurk). Also I think there's more than 10 lurkers. @LSB Are you prodding/notifying people who are inactive or at least threatening them for being inactive? What's the See: Tackster about? Are you claiming i'm not in the game? | ||
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On March 29 2011 09:24 Kavdragon wrote: Firstly I retracted my statement about being able to figure out if you stole an item. It was never about an ability, or access to someone through PM, only logic. Hence my "Nevermind, I have fail logic" post. The rest of your points are implications based off of assumptions that are not true. I didn't lie about being hit. I basically assumed you could have lied because of that post. So i'll retract that that post makes you look scummy. Also I posted scenario's in which you didn't lie. Seeing as you retract that post I retract the scenarios where you may have lied. Without clearing you obviously | ||
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On March 29 2011 09:29 bumatlarge wrote: Nice tnk, that explains a lot. Let's see what I can do. My DT: Checked Lemon, switched with me and came back as that. Makes perfect sense because that is my role. I believe that explains any FoS we could have had against him. He is no longer a suspect. I WAS NOT HIT LAST NIGHT Scum KP: Red's hit annul. Simple as that, I could explain it but then I would have to kill you. Black/red hit GMarshal and Kav. Kav is alive, GMarshal is dead. Coag KP: Used on tackster. Did not die. Bus already used, so he had to be protected. He clearly did not use his item, because coagulation says he did, which was the only item used, plus tackster should have claimed he used the item. IIRC, he never claimed a hit. If you want to live tackster you need to answer this post. Lemon is no longer a bigger suspect then you. Yes explain to me how this makes sense... #1 Just because you didn't DT check lemon doesn't clear him of being scum #2 You claim that if Coag was controlled onto annul then i'm 'protected'. This is only if I thought coag had gun. Therefore you are working outside of the 'scum thought he had a stun gun scenario'. If we are working inside that scenario then I was never protected - all that happened was that red tried to stun annul AND shoot him. But the stun wouldn't have gone through because Coag said that the item stuns people that visit coag. Therefore this scenario could not have happened... | ||
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On March 29 2011 10:58 GGQ wrote: The argument that Tackster can't be mafia because he didn't know coagulation had the gun is fundamentally flawed. There's one thing that everyone, including coagulation, seems to be forgetting. Coagulation claimed that he had a stun gun that would disable his target's power. That's why scum redirected Coagulation to annul; to disable annul's hot potato so that it wouldn't blow up and kill the other scum who was assigned to shoot annul. Meanwhile Tackster stole from jackal to prevent jackal from shooting him. That fact that Coagulation ended up shooting annul was completely accidental by the mafia. Thus the 4 kp are as follows: Red hit annul Red hit Kav or Gmarshal Black hit Kav or Gmarshal Coag hit Tackster, but was redirected by scum to hit annul because scum thought that his stun gun would stop annul's potato from killing the scum who killed annul. GG lynch Tackster That's why scum redirected Coagulation to annul; to disable annul's hot potato [b]This is not how the stun gun was claimed to work Meanwhile Tackster stole from jackal to prevent jackal from shooting him This has already been proved not to make me scummy. Tonnes of town would have stolen from jackal too. Seeing as there was no way scum thought that controlling coag to 'use' his item on annul could have worked this disproves the theory entirely! [/i] | ||
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On March 29 2011 11:57 GGQ wrote: I have a question for you. Can you confirm that your item is a vest that protects you from night kills? If so, someone in the thread earlier (jackal?) said that your vest would automatically protect you even if you were protecting it rather than using it. This seems wrong to me, so I'd like to hear it from you. Do you have to use the vest for it to protect you or does it do so automatically? And, finally, did your best block a bullet last night? The point Lemon made is that the vest would protect him if he tried to steal or tried to defend. In that case there is no point in trying to use as you may as well just defend for a better result | ||
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On March 29 2011 20:57 CubEdIn wrote: You're wrong, there were many people who questioned other things, like why Lemon is "cleared". I myself have asked for extensive explanations on why we are only focusing on Tack, you need to go back and read the thread more carefully. And no it wouldn't make sense to steal from Coag, as a KP is more important than a RB for mafia. And as Coag was clearly the shooter, and jackal's item got stolen, that safely clears them both. As much as you can have someone cleared in a game of Mafia. So it's between Lemon and Tackster, and it doesn't make sense for mafia to double-shoot Annul if they KNEW Coag had the real gun. It would make much more sense to use the "stun gun" to RB annul's potato. Anything else makes a lot less sense than this theory. Why does Jackal having his item stolen clear him in any way? Thats wrong imo. | ||
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Anyway: ##Vote: Jackal | ||
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People I think are green/blue: Coagulation Deconduo Meapak tnkted Insanious Orgolove CubEdIn Rean Wiggles ilovejohn GGQ (This addition is new!! Go you!) Ya that's right - i think i pegged 11 of the 13 remaining greens (2 dead, me dying) People I think are scum: Jackal OR Lemon (More Jackal obviously) Lanaia Beneather iGrok People I think look scummy but i may be reading wrong: kevconism Original chaoser Lastly my special info from LSB: From: LSB Subject: Re: Item Game Date: 3/28/11 22:51 If all the item game players get killed in one night, no on gets the items. I don't know if everyone else assumed this - I know I didn't. The reason I'm outing this is that if green/red think that they are going to lose they can try to draw and stop anyone having an advantage. The reason I didn't want to mention this is in case black tried to break the IG. I'm mentioning it now because now: - We have to medic who we think is green tonight at all costs - If anything weird happens tonight remember we can always try to draw instead of losing! | ||
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On March 30 2011 01:08 GGQ wrote: [/i]I've already explained why it would be bad town play for you to steal from jackal. Even if you think that is true given how the stun gun was claimed to work how does your theory make sense? | ||
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Why is no one commenting on the fact that the stun gun didnt claim to work the way people are saying?? | ||
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This stun-gun scenario makes no sense. Why won't people address that instead???? And CubEdIn I figured it makes sense to vote Lemon instead. I just think that Jackal is mafia and wanted to leave no confusion for tomorrow. So what I'll do is this- I'm voting Lemon for now and hoping people ACTUALLY CHECK THIS STUN GUN SCENARIO. It doesn't make sense. I'm a green and you are very capable of coming to that conclusion if you check for yourself instead of trusting to posts that reference others WRONG. If i am lynched tonight when I flip green remember that we need to read into both Lemon AND Jackal. I still think what happened earlier points to Jackal. In fact even though i'm quite certain coagulation is probably green no one can be certain. CHECK THINGS don't get lazy... | ||
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#1 Whether or not stealing from Jackal is pro-town, anti-town or a non-tell. #2 Whether or not the events from last night imply I am scum or not. Now while I am not interested in an argument about who is right or wrong I am interested in discussing if I am scum or not. The reason i did not directly reply to that post of yours was I felt it would just lead to a 'I know better than you' argument which nobody wins. Let's address it rationally which you seem to be doing. #1 Whether or not stealing from Jackal is pro-town, anti-town or a non-tell. Point 1: People can do what they think is good for town and be wrong: Many people have pointed out that they would have stolen as well in that scenario. This doesn't make them scum for doing so. This means their opinion was a steal was necessitated in the situation. Even if we conclusively prove that stealing was anti-town that doesn't make everybody who concluded otherwise a non-green faction. Similarly I thought that stealing was pro-town (I still do) and did what I thought would help town. If it turns out I made the wrong assumption about stealing that does not imply that I'm mafia. If you need I can quote people that said they would have stolen too but i'd rather not as it has been well established and will take a long time to prove something that isn't intrinsic to the point only this situation. Point 2: I'm not taking the probability of how each scenario will play out Your logic is poor because you assume that each situation has an equal chance of playing out under each scenario. This doesn't make any sense. My labeling of good/bad etc. is a label on each scenario that is my read on how likely the scenario is to go well. You're implying a scenario I label GOOD could have a large possibility of going badly which i haven't taken into account. But in that case it is no longer GOOD. The chances for it to play out well or not are in the labels themselves. If you have a problem with how I label a scenario then attack my assessment of the scenario. Don't say i didn't assess it. Point 3: I'm ignoring the context of this game in particular What I meant is that you are just looking at some percentages without taking the context of the game into account. This is the same as the previous point. Each scenario is taken in context of THIS game, not all games. Check how the scenario's are written. If you disagree with a particular one say that. Don't say I've ignored this game for each scenario - this game is the only one I have to go on. As long as you are around, covered in scum and drawing votes your way, you'll just distract town from finding the real scum tomorrow. If someone is going to shoot you, then you thank them and look forward to seeing jackal hang the next day. This is stated in a way that ignores the context of the game. It takes into account the scumminess I have (which you claim me of not doing) but doesn't take into account other game mechanics - for instance the fact that if Jackal was red he would have a gun. Extra KP for scum. You said that then Jackal will hang the next day. So now you are ignoring the fact that this is insane mafia and he may in fact not be? Also outside of the points being made he would have an item that protects him at night if i didn't steal from him. If he is mafia and wasn't lynched then he would be immune at night. But that's outside this point... Furthermore, on the chance that you might survive (hey, you never know; it's insane mafia! look at what you are claiming now... you are a green and someone out there somewhere decided to save your ass) you would use your DT check item because you know how valuable a DT check is for town. Even if it's not from a trusted source (you)... you know you are going to die soon (most likely to a lynch the next day) so then town will know your check was true. Again here you don't take into account any other information - only the fact that if I don't die and I DT checked the information is then useful after I die. This isn't compared with any other possible outcomes. It's stated as a fact for an outcome you are for. If you aren't comparing outcomes then you are only 'for' it on impulse. Point 4: My logic is bad Compare your 'bad' situation (5) to your 'very good' one (3). The only difference between these two situations is that you have the gun in the 'very good' one. Scenario 3: I have the Gun. Town has the lynch. Basically the night passed and town gets to make the decisions - not the scum and the vig, who may or may not be green. Scenario 5: I don't have the gun. Someone else was shot. We are now down a green and have allowed the decision to be made by the scum and a vig, who may or may not be green. How are those scenario's the same? How is the only difference that I have the gun? Remember that I am working out the choices from the point of view of a green. So taking the gun out of red hands is a win for town no matter which situation. As a green I have to view owning the gun as beneficial. The question is whether or not it is a greater asset then dying. As we are listing situations whether or not I die that is already taken into account! #2 Whether or not the events from last night imply I am scum or not. Point 1: The original post is wrong And yes, it seems I was mistaken about the stun gun If you were mistaken about the gun then your earlier post based around the stun-gun now doesn't make any sense. And we can conclude you were wrong about it - go check what coag said. I can't be bothered trawling for it now but I know I am right so if you disagree go confirm please. Point 2: You're reason for the control doesn't make sense if I am red Perhaps the mafia were hoping that if annul's potato blew up the mafia shooting him, at least it would take Coagulation along with them? Ok that is possible. But if I was red i would be: #1 Taking out coagulation from the IG. If coagulation pop up green that looks good for Jackal. Why would I want that? But if I'm not red this is fine. #2 Shooting someone who I am assuming is going to die anyway from a potato? (annul) Remember that the potato has a chance to take out someone that visits AND annul. If I assume the potato is going to kill coag cos he visits I don't need to shoot annul. Point 3: You're reason for scum definitely not knowing who had the gun is wrong Why would reds possibly risk one of their members to the potato if they knew annul was going to die from Coagulation's shot? The only answer is that they didn't know, which means that the red in the IG must be the only person who didn't know that Coagulation had the gun, which is you. I don't understand what you're saying here. If we assume a red shot annul (which you did) then red risked dying to the potato REGARDLESS of whether they knew coag had the gun. Coag having the gun has nothing to do with red shooting the guy holding the potato. This makes it even less likely that red controlled coag onto annul. But coag insists he was controlled onto annul therefore either - Coag is lying - Black did the mind control But if coag is lying then he would be red and shot who red did as well. That doesn't make any sense and leads me to believe that black performed the mind control. That analysis is independent of whether I am scum and independent of knowledge of who had the gun. If black performed the mind control then they didn't know who had the gun any more than I did. So saying the mind control rests with whoever did/didn't know who had the gun is pointless. If you ask me why coagulation was mind controlled onto annul I couldn't possibly tell you. Assuming black and red don't want to work with each other they may simply have picked up on when coag outed that he had the gun and decided the game would take longer if jackal and I remained. | ||
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Now that Bum says he can't confirm the color of the KP on annul this whole thing needs to be done again. Bum stop making mistakes goddamit!! | ||
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On March 30 2011 03:27 bumatlarge wrote: Where did I say that? It's reasonable to assume it was red, but black would still benefit. People gave good reasons to why only red would shoot in the IG, so it's clear they tried someway, but black would as well, even if it was just to kill annul It's kinda fun not making sense. You guys should seen the plan I had cooked up to have one of my blues counter claim me, oh boy you guys would have been yelling at me so much. But alas, there is already enough on everyone's plate, that crucial discussion could not be wasted Amuse me some more tackster. Bum you got voted mayor right. In previous posts you have confirmed that the shot on annul was by red. People have referenced it, people have made their minds up based on it. In fact my post was a reply where GGQ said he assumed it only because you said it! Now you're saying that it could have been either. You're the mayor with a PM circle and you don't understand why im annoyed that you can't out real information properly and stop outing things you have to correct yourself on? You said during the campaign phase you may be newish and not have the strongest scumhunting abilities but at least you're clear and can work with the PM circle. And now you come out with this? And whats with the tag line - amuse me some more? I'm a green fighting to get the mafia lynched and you're being condescending and frivolous straight after you admitted you made a mistake. Tell me i've misread something cos otherwise you're a bit of an asshole... | ||
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Jackals 'great' tunnel based on a plan that made no sense… coags incessant deafness and his willingness to accept confirmations that weren't real… And now bum using his position as leader to make mistakes and then laugh in the face of them… I know I can be wrong and hardly expect everyone to agree with me but the way some of these debates have gone... A lot of the people in here seem like fun and there have been some laughs, absolutely. But the way the game is being played… I'm feeling a little put off tbh. Did everyone feel this at first or what? | ||
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The whole 'red probably hit annul' isn't a good defense since all the recent analysis has ignored the other possibility. If you now read it all this isn't a good plan. But no one seems bothered. Good job... Apparently if I am green i should just throw my hands in the air and say well let people think what they want, this is mafia and the point is not to use logic or work anything out. Jackal thanks for letting me know my mafia play is good. That's going to be great when i turn up green. Chaoser you've been misreading a lot - when i flip green take it as a sign to pay more attention! | ||
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On March 30 2011 04:17 bumatlarge wrote: Like I would need to mayor to do that lol Well if I told you I could probably salvage the outcome of the IG no matter what the lynch is tack? What would you say then? If you could 'probably' salvage the outcome that means we shouldn't analyze anything, rely on real information or even try? Why didn't you say so before? We could all just stop posting and let you do everything. | ||
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On March 30 2011 04:21 Jackal58 wrote: If you must bus bus all actions from Coag to me. Lemon has his vest but if we mislynch he wont get shot anyways. Cause he's scum. And serious as a heart attack I will have coag shoot me. Town doesn't need another fucking day of no you - no you - no you - no you. So medic protect coag. Bus from coag to me. Coag shoots me. Lynch Lemon. I am not about to go through all this bs and let scum get dt tools. But we're not going to mislynch. But that's plan B Sorry if coag shoots you and you two are bussed coag shoots himself. wtf is that? | ||
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So you AND coag die... You know you really need to not make any more plans ever... | ||
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On March 30 2011 04:28 deconduo wrote: LOLOLOL. You get mediced and coag shoots himself. Deconduo can we put this plan up as a poster in our living room? PLEEEAAAAASSSSEEEE??? | ||
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On March 30 2011 04:22 deconduo wrote: + Show Spoiler + 1. RebirthOfLeGenD - Sheep 2. Jackal58 - Tunnel 3. OriginalName - Sheep 4. Kenpachi - Has half a brain 5. deconduo - Has a brain 6. Kavdragon - Black 8. bumatlarge - Sheep 10. Coagulation - Tunnel 11. orgolove - Mafia 12. chaoser - Torn between sheep and mafia 13. Meapak_Ziphh - 15. kevconsim - 16. Mr. Wiggles - Has half a brain 17. CubEdIn - Has a brain 18. GGQ - Torn between sheep and mafia 19. ilovejonn - Dunno 20. Amber[LighT] - Lurking 21. BrownBear - Was lurking, dunno. 22. Lemonwalrus - Mafia 23. Rean - Has a brain 24. tnkted - Has a brain 25. Tackster - Has a brain 26. Lanaia - Has a brain 27. iGrok - Black 28. Beneather - Lurker 29. Insanious - Has a brain 30. Eiii - Sheep I'm offended. Jackal has a brain... not a human one but a brain none the less! | ||
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No replies? I know it's late in the day but I put in the effort... | ||
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On March 30 2011 04:46 BrownBear wrote: STOP TALKING ABOUT TACK JESUS CHRIST. We've pretty much decided he's gonna get lynched, all he's doing now is trying to distract us from his scumbuddies. Don't let him, focus on more important things. Is this one of your 'quality' posts? When I flip green you think I should have just said - oh well im dead, i'll be silent now? | ||
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Oh I know - to hit the other red in the item game and not give red an advantage. But yea that's a terrible idea. Why bother trying to stop the only team that can't really kill you. Well I suppose if they can't kill you they'll do their best to out you!! Possibly with some ITEMS!! | ||
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On March 30 2011 05:16 chaoser wrote: Here's the question then Tack, why would red/black even shoot at annul? He had the hot potato which blows up when people visit him. If he activates it then it's 100% chance it'll blow up. If not then it's 25% chance. Why would red/black risk it, especially black since they lost a member to D1 lynch? The only reason they would shoot at annul that I can think of is if they thought his bomb was diffused or safe right? I read it the first time no need to post it twice! I can think of a reason now that makes even more sense. If black though coag had the gun they could mind control him onto annul so red didn't win item game. That means that red can shoot annul like everyone was clamouring for anyway. BOOM | ||
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On March 30 2011 05:22 bumatlarge wrote: DONT CONSIDER WHY, DONT GO INTO IT I CANT TELL YOU I KNOW. JUST SHUT UP AND DIE. Geez darm went down nice and easy, his last post made me really consider switching but I trusted my instincts and my thought process. You are making an absurd amount of posts all gearing the conversation to you, when I don't really care! Coagulation is 100% town, and all scum powers were used. We just need to try to keep him or another townie alive. I'm not even that concerned about town getting the items, just as long as mafia don't get them. They won't. This post was I give up and therefore everyone else should. Bum if you don't want to work your delicate mind anymore that's fine. But to ask others to share in that ignorance is disgraceful | ||
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Debating what is happening can lead to a slip. How could you possibly be against that... | ||
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I've worked hard as hell to try and show my innocence here. What do I have to do to see some action? The vote is 4 hours away... | ||
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On March 30 2011 06:03 Coagulation wrote: Tackster i know why your trying so hard Because your mafias only chance to get the items and you dont want to let them down. but its too late. sorry. Is it wrong to try and change people's minds because it's in towns interest... And yet want to die so people like coag might re-evaluate their terrible play? | ||
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On March 30 2011 06:08 Coagulation wrote: tons of people have been defending tack vehemently since i first accused him. they just dont want to stand out on a pretty little list. coincidence? The coincidence is that you relentlessly tunnelled someone who happened to the get accused by people with actual information. When everybody turns out to be wrong you and jackal are going to be the only two who should be ashamed. Mightily so... | ||
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On March 30 2011 06:09 Coagulation wrote: its ok man we will talk about that after the lynch. also for future games to think about When you "..." the end of every sentence it makes you look like your apprehensive and leaving stuff out. pretty big scumtell probably shouldnt do it anymore. When i flip green you probably will realise you should have reasons when you make decisions. pretty big tard tell probably shouldn't do it any more | ||
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On March 30 2011 06:14 Insanious wrote: Your original should show a 6:07 time stamp Coag added this "also for future games to think about When you "..." the end of every sentence it makes you look like your apprehensive and leaving stuff out. pretty big scumtell probably shouldnt do it anymore." Nothing else was changed. Just wanted to put that up there so he doesn't get mod killed. He added, didn't remove... This shows the original for posterity sake. | ||
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On March 30 2011 06:15 Coagulation wrote: After calling me retarted you had better flip green or you went too far. unacceptable. The main point was to try and get you to evaluate your play... The whole tard tell thing was a poke at the way you preached | ||
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On March 30 2011 06:17 LSB wrote: Third party are immune from all KP unless explicitly stated that the KP can go through bulletproof. In this case since the bomb did not state it goes through bulletproof, the third party is immune from it. And now black have a good opportunity to affect the IG. Does this mean black clearly killed annul - no. Does this mean it should be considered - yes. Unless you're giving up on analysis like bum et al. | ||
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Another stupid reason added to the list for when i flip green. | ||
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On March 30 2011 06:21 GGQ wrote: That's really different from regular bulletproof tbh... probably should have been stated in the OP. I've been operating on the assumption that they are just 'bullet' proof. Which probably means you'll consider changing your vote until... i don't know - 11:01 KST? | ||
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On March 30 2011 06:22 chaoser wrote: If anything it would give him a reason to not only to fight but also for the mafia team to pretty much abandon him. Sooner or later he will be found out and he will be lynched. Anyone connected to him at all will be put under heavy scrutiny. By that reasoning mafia would never try and protect their fellows. And given that it is so obvious any mafia that do it would be able to cite that as the reason they are mafia. And yet it isn't happening... The same thing happened when we wanted to decided between me and Jackal and there plenty of people were present! | ||
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On March 30 2011 06:27 chaoser wrote: B No, that's not true. In this case it's assured that the mafia member will be found out. In a regular game the mafia could escape lynching. In the IG, sooner or later, the mafia will be found. Ok but doesn't the same reasoning stand with the last lynch? People were defending me then if you remember? And I was a possible lynch target. | ||
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On March 30 2011 07:10 LSB wrote: Sweet! And just a little suggestion, worrying about too much of them game will only hurt you and consume your time. Probably thats why we almost are at 3k posts here Erm the wording of that is leading me down lots of paths at once. Can you rephrase slightly? What does it matter - i'm gone anyway | ||
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I figured I would do this by pinning quotes onto my staunchest adversaries: Dear Jackal: You came up with a stupid plan, You stuck to the stupid plane, You die with your stupid plan. Next time try and actually invest effort into the game. In the words of Noel Coward: Work is more fun than fun Dear Coagulation: You let scum into your life, You allowed yourself to be blinded, You refused the gift of sight. Next time consider that you probably are wrong. In the words of Brian Eno: Giving something a name can be just the same as inventing it Dear Chaoser: You didn't try to be right - you simply chose to be right. That just isn't right. In the words of Marshall McLuhan: A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding. And lastly BumAtLarge: You got elected mayor You misused your power You revealed bad information You told me not to defend myself If you don't get things right start re-evaluating instead of being defensive. In the words of Massimo Banzi The man who says it can’t be done shouldn’t interrupt the man who is trying to do it. To everyone my thanks for letting me play with you. LSB hosted great, I had some laughs and hopefully I helped town the best I could. A shout out to my buddy in the Graveyard - i'll see you soon bro!! Ciao amici! Buona Fortuna!! @LSB Could you please give me the game info when I die? Want to see what's been happenin here! | ||
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Dear Tackster: From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity. (Edvard Munch) | ||
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Did i mention I do latin as well? | ||
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On March 31 2011 11:20 tnkted wrote: Isn't brutUS plural? I'd be speaking to a group of people. I do arabic and spanish. Brutus is singular - it's a name so doesn't follow a proper declension anyway. Also it's in the vocative which means 'O Brutus' In the Nominative (Brutus) it would mean Brutus did something and you... | ||
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Ireland429 Posts
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Ireland429 Posts
Bruto or Brutato | ||
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Ireland429 Posts
Wait... I have a mac Apple+R,Apple+R,Apple+R,Apple+R,Apple+R | ||
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Ireland429 Posts
OMNIS MORITURATI SUNT!! | ||
Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
On March 31 2011 11:27 Mr. Wiggles wrote: You misquoted anyways, it's "Et tu, Brute?" which is the proper Vocative form. Also, it's second declension masculine, follows the rules. :p Names don't always follow the rules. Just fyi | ||
Tackster
Ireland429 Posts
Touché as the gauls would say Fuck it, i'm dead so i edited | ||
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Ireland429 Posts
On March 31 2011 11:30 CubEdIn wrote: Rofl. Are you sure it doesn't mean "one who peed himself" or something like that? You spying on me? | ||
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Ireland429 Posts
Hmmm... | ||
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Ireland429 Posts
I'm in for $5 on 11:43 KST | ||
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Ireland429 Posts
FAIL post | ||
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Ireland429 Posts
I'm butting out now - enjoy day 3!! | ||
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