On February 18 2011 22:57 bumatlarge wrote:
you are mslegend? hahahahahahahahaha
you are mslegend? hahahahahahahahaha
Now I get where he got his username from. Kinda cool.
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
deconduo
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On February 18 2011 22:57 bumatlarge wrote: you are mslegend? hahahahahahahahaha Now I get where he got his username from. Kinda cool. | ||
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/in | ||
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-GMarshal's plan: I attempted to start one in Orgah* but it collapsed. I feel it is a good idea but his implementation was bad/scummy. I would like to hear how he came about those groups? 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 etc. is the logical option with no chance of mafia setting it up. Remember these groups should just be for general discussion and not anything stupid like roleclaiming. Assume that one of your group is mafia. -As such, I'm going to try and form a cell with why and lastargument. I would encourage others to do the same. Deaths will obviously impact on cells, but that can be overcome by merging them. Or possibly even reforming groups at the start of every day? For example if people 2,3,5 are dead the first group would now be: 1, 4, 6 -We can rely on cops to some extent by counting KP. People seem to have forgotten that we can guess how much total KP the mafia have and use that to our advantage to work out if powers were used or not. -DTs are reliable as they will know when role reverser was used on them and are unaffected by frame/cover because they check role as opposed to alignment. Only problem here is the unknown number of godfathers. -Sorry if anything here was said earlier, I just skimmed through million pages of spam. *Yes I was mafia in that game, but I did it to appear town. | ||
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The rest are in timezones where they should have been around after the game started. | ||
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-I spotted this post by coag: + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 15:41 Coagulation wrote: people who havnt posted yet. icemac JBright ohN astroorion ICanFlyLow CubEdIn Ser Aspi Gofarman It came to my attention because I wasn't on it when I should have been. However I then realised I hadn't seen any other posts by him. On checking his history he has FIFTY posts in the thread and only one stood out to me.... Even going over again I can't see any non-spam post. -I like this post by ohn: + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 19:21 ohN wrote: 'Just finished catching up My thoughts: Cells are a good idea but GMarshal giving us predetermined groups that he thinks we should work with is pretty scummy. They weren't just like 1-3, 4-6 either, he moved them around to his liking. Not a good candidate for day1 lynch because I don't feel that that alone is enough to incriminate him but definitely FoS on him. I dont see how people think + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 12:40 chaoser wrote: Ok, so like Gmarshal said, we shouldn't depend on blues this game. Especially since RoL specifically said this game was to punish us for what happened in Salam. At the same thing, I don't think the mafia powers are all THAT powerful. Let them frame away, that's one less death to worry about. PMs are allowed but PLEASE don't just give out crazy info in them (roleclaim, etc.). The point of town is not to have 1 leader controlling everything but small circles that are separated so that if one goes down, the others can still operate. Let's all work together and not let a few players handle all the work (which always seems to happen). This means contributing pleaseee. Him noting that mafia isn't that powerful is something anybody could point out. Role reversal has huge potential but only if mafia has a confirmed blue. They still have to give up an entire kp to use it so they will not be open to using it without being absolutely sure. Role reversal on a townie does nothing except waste a kp. I'll probably end up voting for someone who hasn't posted anything useful or that guy who thought annul was inactive(lol). I haven't played with him before but thats a good start. -gryff: + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 12:46 gryffindor wrote: I'm a veteran claims to me I don't like this at all. The whole banter between gryff and gmarshal seems off as well. In addition I've gotten 2 PMs this entire game: Original Message From gryffindor: do you have any reads so far? what do you believe i am aligned? Original Message From GMarshal: Hi! So,I'm curious as to what your reads are this game, care to share? Disturbingly similar. -annul: Something feels off about his posts as well. He seems to be a lot more spammy than usual. He suggests lynching chaoser because one of his posts was scummy, but doesn't elaborate why. He disagrees with the idea circles. He hasn't really made a single substantial post as far as I can see. | ||
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On February 24 2011 01:40 GMarshal wrote: You guys are not the only people to revive PMs from me, I also PMed Gryffindor (didn't get back to me), chaoser, deconduo, kitaman27 ,darmousseh (there may be 1 or 2 more I don't remember off the top of my head) I've also replied to PMs from other people, this is a way of forcing people to voice opinions by asking them directly, I don't see what your issue with me using PMs as a tool is, its a way for me to see what people are thinking and pressure them to post by making sure they cannot ignore the thread/questions. This is an issue how? I could see it if my PM read something like "hey I'm a vigi, tell me your role, NOW!" but this is just asking for opinions My issue wasn't that you sent me a PM, it was that you and gryff sent me an almost identical one within a couple hours of each other. This coupled with the fact that the two of you have been going back and forth without actually saying much makes me FOS you. | ||
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On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote: I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him. But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. | ||
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On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 02:13 GMarshal wrote: On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote: On February 24 2011 02:00 deconduo wrote: On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote: I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him. But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. So your reasoning is: Two mafia might edit a PM and post it to gang up on a townie to get them lynched in a lylo situation so therefore don't do it at all ever. Anyone who does post a PM is scummy. This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin.... | ||
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On February 24 2011 06:16 GMarshal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 06:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On February 24 2011 00:34 deconduo wrote: What will Detective return if he investigates a vanilla mafia? Same for a vanilla townie? Detectives return the ROLE of a player. Assuming that mafia is not covered and the townie is not framed it will return "mafia" and "townie" respectively. so basically the framer defeats both Cops and Detectives, wonderful, now that this has been cleared up allow me to state that DTs are semi worthless then and should go after people not in the spotlight, as those results will be the most suspect That lessens the power of the DT but they are still nowhere near useless. -They will can verify other blues -They still return the right alignment if role reversed -Mafia are forced to waste KP if they want to Cover/Frame | ||
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On February 24 2011 06:27 GMarshal wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 06:23 deconduo wrote: On February 24 2011 06:16 GMarshal wrote: On February 24 2011 06:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On February 24 2011 00:34 deconduo wrote: What will Detective return if he investigates a vanilla mafia? Same for a vanilla townie? Detectives return the ROLE of a player. Assuming that mafia is not covered and the townie is not framed it will return "mafia" and "townie" respectively. so basically the framer defeats both Cops and Detectives, wonderful, now that this has been cleared up allow me to state that DTs are semi worthless then and should go after people not in the spotlight, as those results will be the most suspect That lessens the power of the DT but they are still nowhere near useless. -They will can verify other blues -They still return the right alignment if role reversed -Mafia are forced to waste KP if they want to Cover/Frame Alright useless was a wrong choice, however I don't want people just going out and claiming DT just because they got red on a check on someone controversial, there has to be more substance to it, e.g. scummy posting associated with it, checked twice and got the same result, something like that Point 1 did not occur to me, great catch, although blues can still be framed Point 2 I dont quite get what you mean, can you explain it a little more Point 3 is the reason DTs should try to avoid claiming, to keep scum on their toes and force the expenditure of kps -As far as I can gather, even if framed DTs will still return vig/medic whatever. The only problem here would be the/a godfather -Again, as I understand it, if a DT was role-reversed they would return 'Townie' as opposed to 'Medic' | ||
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On February 24 2011 06:29 annul wrote: also hi. am out of class now why arent we killing chaoser or GM? im gonna go ##vote chaoser now myself. Hi, would you like to explain that vote? You have been acting pretty scummy so far. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 12:47 annul wrote: okay hi peeps vote chaoser. that post reeks of redness. p.s. still no role PM! On February 23 2011 12:51 annul wrote: nobody in this game should trust gryffindor whatsoever. i read orgah and i have NO IDEA how he didnt die like 5 days before he did also, he's a smurf and if you read this forum you should already know who he is ;\ On February 23 2011 12:55 annul wrote: it reeks of red because he is like "hey so theres weak powers in this game lol" which can only be known if he is a red, since if he was green he cant make that blanket claim and if he was a blue, he'd even be less inclined to make that claim the only way he can do that is if he is red and he sees the red team has weak or no powers On February 23 2011 13:23 annul wrote: same reason you knew the mafia was weak? On February 23 2011 13:31 annul wrote: pretty sure its better for people to post things in the thread -- much easier to catch red slips that way. if people only post in these mini town circles, then people are probably more inclined psychologically to trust their town circle and not consider them red, etc. On February 23 2011 14:33 annul wrote: but for real lets kill chaoser and GM On February 24 2011 06:29 annul wrote: also hi. am out of class now why arent we killing chaoser or GM? im gonna go ##vote chaoser now myself. Please tell me where amongst that pile of shit you 'explained' your vote. And no, 'lol you said mafia was weak' is NOT a good reason or explanation. Note, those are his non-spam posts. | ||
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On February 24 2011 07:00 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 06:28 annul wrote: On February 24 2011 06:12 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: On February 24 2011 00:34 deconduo wrote: What will Detective return if he investigates a vanilla mafia? Same for a vanilla townie? Detectives return the ROLE of a player. Assuming that mafia is not covered and the townie is not framed it will return "mafia" and "townie" respectively. mafia and townie are not roles, they are alignments... I assumed it would be obvious, but in that case I guess I will rename the roles. When you are a DT you are getting back the role of mafia/town and when you are a cop you are getting back the alignment of mafia/town. Understand? I will change the names to Vanilla Town and Mafia Grunt for the sake of understanding. From now on cops will return Mafia/town and detectives will return vanilla town and mafia grunt. So, hopefully I have this right: -A DT checking a medic will return 'Town Medic' -A DT checking a framed medic will return 'Mafia Medic' -A DT checking a grunt will return 'Mafia Grunt' -A DT checking a covered grunt will return 'Town Grunt' -A role-reversed DT checking a medic will return 'Town' -A role-reversed DT checking a framed medic will return 'Mafia' -A role-reversed DT checking a grunt will return 'Mafia' -A role-reversed DT checking a covered grunt will return 'Town' | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=14#272 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=16#315 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=17#335 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=17#340 Much longer, thought out posts. | ||
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On February 24 2011 08:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 08:21 deconduo wrote: Look at the difference between annul's posting early on in Mafia XXXV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=14#272 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=16#315 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=17#335 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=17#340 Much longer, thought out posts. The only problem with this logic is that he was mafia that game, and played very aggressively against LSB to get him lynched. So you can't use this as a scum tell, but it does tell us that annul is capable of making long thought out posts when he wants to, so if anything, we should pressure him to do so. So annul, what's keeping you back from posting anything longer than two lines? You seem to have an opinion on some players, why not write anything substantial? Oh, yeah. Forgot to check role >.< Nevermind then. | ||
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On February 24 2011 09:04 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 08:48 deconduo wrote: On February 24 2011 08:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote: On February 24 2011 08:21 deconduo wrote: Look at the difference between annul's posting early on in Mafia XXXV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=14#272 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=16#315 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=17#335 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=179009¤tpage=17#340 Much longer, thought out posts. The only problem with this logic is that he was mafia that game, and played very aggressively against LSB to get him lynched. So you can't use this as a scum tell, but it does tell us that annul is capable of making long thought out posts when he wants to, so if anything, we should pressure him to do so. So annul, what's keeping you back from posting anything longer than two lines? You seem to have an opinion on some players, why not write anything substantial? Oh, yeah. Forgot to check role >.< Nevermind then. No, it's still good, because it show us that when he's motivated he will take the time to go through the thread and analyze. That was how he was able to pick on LSB as someone he could make a fake analysis on. So this begs the question of why he hasn't been doing anything in this game. Is he trying to hide? Why? Or does he just not care, because that's not very good for town. Bored townie syndrome maybe. I dunno, but until he responds ##Vote: annul Reasons: -Lots of spam without any substantial posts -Baseless accusations on GMarshal + Chaoser | ||
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I'd like to hear from Coag and conversion a bit more. Gnight for now, hopefully there'll be a bit more talk while I'm asleep. | ||
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On February 24 2011 09:37 Coagulation wrote: sorry im not lurking i just got a pm from ROL telling me im stupid and need to stop posting cause people are complaining. that is all. im 100% reading and analyzing the thread. Feel free to ask me any questions or anything... Opinions on annul, GMarshal, gryffindor, chaoser. Opinion on cells. Now I really am going to bed >.> | ||
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On February 24 2011 20:42 gryffindor wrote: Deconduo, do you see how a scum could propose a cell idea? Yes, anyone could propose it. However that doesn't mean its a bad idea or scummy idea. Its an interesting concept and opinions on it are divided. Should you lynch someone for proposing Hypocop? In some situations it is a good idea, in others its not. You have to at the whole picture; how do mafia benefit, how do town benefit, how does this balance out. As far as I see it, there is no disadvantage in clean cells. Promotes discussion, planning, scumhunting etc. In cells with one mafia, the mafia can either play along and act normally in which case we essentially have a clean cell where mafia know whats going on. If the mafia tries to influence the cell then he runs the risk of being caught out, especially with an inexperienced mafia. It also forces to mafia to discuss and give opinions instead of just passing by in the thread with the bare minimum of posting. In a 2 mafia 1 town cell, you have a townie that will probably be heavily influenced. This could be bad if its an inexperienced blue. However this is highly unlikely (hopefully). In addition, each one of these means an extra clean cell. 3 mafia cell - lawl Overall I feel its a good idea. At the very least it has caused a lot of discussion and debate which will help with scumhunting. I do FoS GMarshal but for other reasons, not for the cell idea. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On February 24 2011 05:31 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote: On February 24 2011 02:13 GMarshal wrote: On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote: On February 24 2011 02:00 deconduo wrote: On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote: I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him. But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. So your reasoning is: Two mafia might edit a PM and post it to gang up on a townie to get them lynched in a lylo situation so therefore don't do it at all ever. Anyone who does post a PM is scummy. This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin.... What is your logic behind telling people not to quote or post PMs? It honestly does not make any sense to me. It feels an irrational conclusion to jump to. | ||
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On February 25 2011 00:07 icemac wrote: Also, I'm not jumping into this Jackal58 bandwagon because I'm not bad. Lynch me if you will. -You have claimed any analysis done on day 1 is useless -You are voting for someone who is going to get modkilled anyway, essentially wasting a lynch While voting/pressuring inactives is a good idea in principal, it does allow mafia to get away with an 'easy' lynch in some cases. For today there are much better lynches (annul...) imo. If you are going to go after inactives, why not people who were posting a lot pre-game and haven't done anything substantial since. Conversion gave us this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=16#320 and then disappeared. Chaoser seems to be lurking a fair bit (though he did say he was missing sleep) Coag: I haven't seen anything proper from him really apart from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=31#614 But yet, you continue to just throw away your vote. On February 24 2011 22:41 Jackal58 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 22:35 deconduo wrote: Jackal, you haven't clarified this: + Show Spoiler + On February 24 2011 05:31 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote: On February 24 2011 02:13 GMarshal wrote: On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote: On February 24 2011 02:00 deconduo wrote: On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote: I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him. But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. So your reasoning is: Two mafia might edit a PM and post it to gang up on a townie to get them lynched in a lylo situation so therefore don't do it at all ever. Anyone who does post a PM is scummy. This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin.... What is your logic behind telling people not to quote or post PMs? It honestly does not make any sense to me. It feels an irrational conclusion to jump to. I did explain it. Go ahead and post PM content. Go ahead and get comfy with it. Go ahead and watch scum use that to destroy town at end game. I think it's a horrid idea. I honestly 100% don't understand your logic. From what I can gather you are saying the following. In a lylo situation, 2 mafia 3 town say. Person A + B post PMs showing C is mafia. C denies it and says they are faked. Now according to you, i)If no PMs were posted previously, people A+B would be lynched. ii)If a couple of PMs had been posted previously, and people were 'comfy' with it, C would be lynched. How you managed to get here I have no clue whatsoever. There must be some huge step in logic that I'm missing as to what universe you think this would happen in. Gryff: + Show Spoiler + On February 24 2011 22:14 gryffindor wrote: Cell 1, Cell leader: Coagulation+ Show Spoiler + 1. 5. Jackal58 2. 17. astroorion 3. 1. Coagulation Cell 2, Cell leader: kitaman27+ Show Spoiler + 4. 19. Gofarman 5. 21. kitaman27 6. 12. icemac Cell 3, Cell leader: IDC, they're all competant+ Show Spoiler + 7. 6. Kenpachi 8. 2. LSB 9. 26. LunarDestiny Cell 4, Cell leader: Barundar+ Show Spoiler + 10. 30. LastArgument 11. 3. Barundar 12. 9. gryffindor Cell 5, Cell leader: deconduo+ Show Spoiler + 13. 16. ohN 14. 28. deconduo 15. 8. annul Cell 6, Cell leader: Foolishness+ Show Spoiler + 16. 18. Foolishness 17. 27. Ser Aspi 18. 22. kevconsim Cell 7, Cell leader: Seraph/Mr. Wiggles+ Show Spoiler + 19. 11. Beneather 20. 15. seRapH 21. 24. Mr. Wiggles Cell 8, Cell leader: OriginalName+ Show Spoiler + 22. 14. JBright 23. 23. ICanFlyLow 24. 13. OriginalName Cell 9, Cell leader: Chaoser+ Show Spoiler + 25. 7. darmousseh 26. 25. chaoser 27. 20. Conversion MaxwellE Cell 10, Cell leader: Cubedin+ Show Spoiler + 28. 4. CubEdIn 29. 29. why 30. 10. GMarshal Now, the "leader" to me is someone who needs to go out of their way to actually collaborate with the other people in their group. If you don't want to use my list of cells, and want to use GMarshal's, whatever. I have a good list I just made right here ready for us to use. Basically, the leaders need to go out of their way to make this work. I am fully confident in these peoples abilities to report what is going on within your cell, and to hold people accountable. WTF that was the scummiest part of GMarshal's plan (prearranging the cells) and you go out and repeat it? AFAIK there is no VI role in the game so I have no idea what you are doing. | ||
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On February 25 2011 04:13 gryffindor wrote: yeah unvote i don't feel like i have shit to explain, either, deconduo you want me to post that PM from you about your scummy idea? I didn't think so I could make a GREAT case on you right now, a very convincing one, but I'm not convinced yet myself. Call me a VI again, though, and that will change. I apologize if you feel like I have hurt the integrity of your game, RoL, and I would replace out if you so desire. Sure, post away. Unlike Jackal I have no problems with what I posted in PMs being quoted and shown in the thread if the person posting them has a legitimate reason. If you think genuinely think one of my ideas is scummy (and I really don't know what you are talking about) or that I am scummy then go ahead and build a case. I will gladly respond to whatever you say you have. Or you know, go ahead and continue to drop subtle passive aggressive hints. 'I could get you lynched if you bother me, so back off' I find blackmail pretty scummy, what about you? | ||
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On February 25 2011 04:29 gryffindor wrote: It's not blackmail if it is the truth. I have been trying to judge your reactions all game, but I can't get a read on you. You can't get a read on me so you threaten to get me lynchd if I annoy you? Right. Here are our PMs, please tell me what my scummy plan is. + Show Spoiler + To gryffindor: One of the main parts of the cell idea is that no claims are made. -_- Its NOT a town circle, its an idea circle. This post describes it better than I can: Show nested quote + On January 06 2011 01:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The whole PM issue is one that has gone back and forth for awhile, some for some against. I think it comes down to not so much the hating of PM's but how they are used. When the games first started circles were formed in them, but the pming also heavily relied on what I like to think of as an "idea circle" or anything on those lines. People would get together, fully expecting 1 or more of the people they are talking to to be mafia. Rather than discussing role distribution, the group would talk about strategies that could be used, behavioural analyze as a group, clue analyze as a group. There was alot of information being shared, and due to the nature of the group everyone had to participate somehow. Eventually people may end up claiming, but the idea was more on finding reds than confirming town. I am not sure where this whole stance of confirming town circles and just offing people came from (an active mafia team should easily destroy this unless game is horrrribly town favoured). If pm's were used as they were in the past, or as the people I routinely pm'd in games did, I believe the skill level would rise. I could be horribly wrong on this, but I just think the concept of how to use pm's got lost somewhere along the way. Show nested quote + Original Message From gryffindor: I was just really nervous. The reaction testing thing from me is null. I do that regardless of alignment. However, I have been posting lengthier posts, something I did not do in Orgah at all. I am for the Cell idea, actually, so long as claiming waits for confirmation. We don't need any unnecessary claiming. Original Message From deconduo: First off, I think cells are a good idea. I really don't understand how you think they could have any negative effect. Same with annul. Point I was trying to make was that when I wanted to do something to appear townish I handpicked the cell to my advantage. Thats why I was suspicious of GMarshal doing the same thing. You are posting a bit more, but the general style is the same. Lots of reaction testing and weird moves. I'm assuming you posted less in orgah to stay out of the spotlight as you were SK. Original Message From gryffindor: you setup pm circles as scum you like pm circles this game you are scum? that's what i'm getting from that as to how i'm acting this game vs that, i completely disagree with you Original Message From deconduo: Nothing much yet, just got to the thread. I like GMarshal's idea for cells and was going to suggest it myself. I don't like how he 'arranged' them though. If it helps, here is the one I set up from orgah: + Show Spoiler + To: Coagulation, GMarshal, Mr. Wiggles Town are in trouble in this game. It is rampant with inactivity and I just feel like we aren't getting anywhere. As such, I'm proposing we form a PM circle in an attempt to collaborate and talk. I have chose you because I feel you are active without having done anything scummy. Darmousseh was meant to be part of the circle also, and in fact it was him that gave me the idea, but unfortunately he was modkilled for roleclaiming to me without realising it was against the rules. I'm not saying that I trust any of you, in fact I'm quite sure at least one of you is mafia or at least anti-town. However this is more about comparing ideas and talking, as suggested in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181300¤tpage=2#29 Please let me know if you are interested. GeneralHankerchief http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/P2Q2Za9db76b5 As for your alignment, you seem to be playing similar to orgah. What that means I don't know. Original Message From gryffindor: do you have any reads so far? what do you believe i am aligned? | ||
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On February 25 2011 04:33 gryffindor wrote: OK, listen up guys, this is pitiful the amount of people voting, and the size of the wagons. We only have 5 people(soon to be six on one) on the major wagons, how are we going to properly analyze voting with all of these split votes and cases? We need to consolidate to see who swings late, and start building associative tells based around the flips. I know we will be able to do that through scumhunting, and I have been trying to do that as well, but wagon analysis is key to catching scum associatively. Annul - 6 Gofarman deconduo Ser Aspi LSB astroorion Gryffindor Icemac - 5 why kevonism seraph ICanFlyLow OriginalName People who need to pick one of the above, because their votes are on people with 2 or less: coagulation Jackal58 Barundar Darmousseh chaoser Jbright annul If your name isn't here, I either missed you or you're not voting. I'm sorry, or you're sorry! We've got 7-8 hours, from my recollection. Let's do something about it. People on 1-2 person wagons need to get on either Icemac or Annul. Vote: Annul Reasoning: Bandwagonning, and LSB believing he is scum. I also like the wagon more, excluding astroorion who I feel will probably come off of it due to being Annul's scumbuddy. At least we agree on who to lynch, annul has been nothing but scummy this entire game. | ||
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On February 25 2011 04:51 annul wrote: i also would like to see the logic behind "i have been nothing but scummy all game" what, specifically, have i done? i called out a bad idea and voted based on it. what else? + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 12:47 annul wrote: okay hi peeps vote chaoser. that post reeks of redness. p.s. still no role PM! No explanation On February 23 2011 12:55 annul wrote: it reeks of red because he is like "hey so theres weak powers in this game lol" which can only be known if he is a red, since if he was green he cant make that blanket claim and if he was a blue, he'd even be less inclined to make that claim the only way he can do that is if he is red and he sees the red team has weak or no powers Gets pressured for an explanation and comes up with this nonsensical beauty. Chaoser said 'I don't think the mafia powers are all THAT powerful. Let them frame away, that's one less death to worry about.' There is nothing wrong or scummy about that post, annul just twisting it to his benefit On February 23 2011 13:31 annul wrote: pretty sure its better for people to post things in the thread -- much easier to catch red slips that way. if people only post in these mini town circles, then people are probably more inclined psychologically to trust their town circle and not consider them red, etc. So you have a degree in psychology now? On February 24 2011 11:24 annul wrote: i dont really know why it takes more than one post to inform a vote the cells idea was absolute garbage. so i am pointing at him. the whole "HEY LOL WE HAVE WEAK ROLES" is a ridic tell as well. what more analysis is there to do? Who gives you absolute authority on what is a good or bad idea? Regardless, why does proposing a bad idea make you scum? I already talked about the weak role thing. On February 24 2011 11:39 annul wrote: ok well i mean i have great reads on both of them, but i dont know what else i need to say about it. can you tell me why chaoser and GM are NOT red? the cells idea is horrible. why do we want to keep analysis private? there is no point in "bouncing off ideas" to a RNG "town circle". this only hurts us. why keep analysis of any type from the town? also, the point of these town circles is what exactly? to have people critique any analysis before "revealing" it? ok assume that is the case, then what happens when the mafia are in these cells? player A says "OK so i got an analysis on player D (outside the cell), who i think is mafia" player B says "no thats horrible, ________" and convinces A. A now doesnt say anything, to not look stupid (that IS the point of these cells, after all!). oops, B and D are mafia. we're fucked. if A just came out and said "hey i have this analysis" B is probably less likely to defend D if it's blatant redness Because person A is a good enough player to do a proper analysis but dumb enough to not post it when B says 'lol thats bad' yeah. On February 24 2011 12:01 annul wrote: i dont think circles actually force people to think. they inhibit it. and circles with mafia in them can really fuck with the townies. Opinion. How does it inhibit it? On February 24 2011 12:33 annul wrote: here is the funny thing. LSB is probably upset at me for what i did to him the last mafia game, so he is going to try to do the same thing to me that i did to him. i see it coming. does it make sense? ofc not. is there literally anyone out there who actually likes this cell idea? i expect the rest of the reds to come out! I like the cell idea. I'm in a cell with people who like the cell idea. On February 24 2011 14:18 annul wrote: TL towns are generally bad so i dont doubt lots of people like it. its still a very bad plan. i really, really do not understand why predetermined RNGed "circles" have any benefit whatsoever maybe he is just another town who is also bad and came up with a bad idea, but ;\ Attacking everyone, repeating that its bad. You even say that he could be a townie with a bad idea but still vote for him? Summary: -Flawed logic. Bad idea does not mean scummy, you even admit this yourself -Lots of people think the cells idea is a good one, Are they all mafia too? -Flawed logic. You take one line of chaoser's and completely twist it out of proportion to call him scummy. -You don't really say or do anything else. | ||
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On February 25 2011 05:05 gryffindor wrote: Show nested quote + On February 25 2011 04:36 deconduo wrote: On February 25 2011 04:29 gryffindor wrote: It's not blackmail if it is the truth. I have been trying to judge your reactions all game, but I can't get a read on you. You can't get a read on me so you threaten to get me lynchd if I annoy you? Right. Here are our PMs, please tell me what my scummy plan is. + Show Spoiler + To gryffindor: One of the main parts of the cell idea is that no claims are made. -_- Its NOT a town circle, its an idea circle. This post describes it better than I can: Show nested quote + On January 06 2011 01:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The whole PM issue is one that has gone back and forth for awhile, some for some against. I think it comes down to not so much the hating of PM's but how they are used. When the games first started circles were formed in them, but the pming also heavily relied on what I like to think of as an "idea circle" or anything on those lines. People would get together, fully expecting 1 or more of the people they are talking to to be mafia. Rather than discussing role distribution, the group would talk about strategies that could be used, behavioural analyze as a group, clue analyze as a group. There was alot of information being shared, and due to the nature of the group everyone had to participate somehow. Eventually people may end up claiming, but the idea was more on finding reds than confirming town. I am not sure where this whole stance of confirming town circles and just offing people came from (an active mafia team should easily destroy this unless game is horrrribly town favoured). If pm's were used as they were in the past, or as the people I routinely pm'd in games did, I believe the skill level would rise. I could be horribly wrong on this, but I just think the concept of how to use pm's got lost somewhere along the way. Show nested quote + Original Message From gryffindor: I was just really nervous. The reaction testing thing from me is null. I do that regardless of alignment. However, I have been posting lengthier posts, something I did not do in Orgah at all. I am for the Cell idea, actually, so long as claiming waits for confirmation. We don't need any unnecessary claiming. Original Message From deconduo: First off, I think cells are a good idea. I really don't understand how you think they could have any negative effect. Same with annul. Point I was trying to make was that when I wanted to do something to appear townish I handpicked the cell to my advantage. Thats why I was suspicious of GMarshal doing the same thing. You are posting a bit more, but the general style is the same. Lots of reaction testing and weird moves. I'm assuming you posted less in orgah to stay out of the spotlight as you were SK. Original Message From gryffindor: you setup pm circles as scum you like pm circles this game you are scum? that's what i'm getting from that as to how i'm acting this game vs that, i completely disagree with you Original Message From deconduo: Nothing much yet, just got to the thread. I like GMarshal's idea for cells and was going to suggest it myself. I don't like how he 'arranged' them though. If it helps, here is the one I set up from orgah: + Show Spoiler + To: Coagulation, GMarshal, Mr. Wiggles Town are in trouble in this game. It is rampant with inactivity and I just feel like we aren't getting anywhere. As such, I'm proposing we form a PM circle in an attempt to collaborate and talk. I have chose you because I feel you are active without having done anything scummy. Darmousseh was meant to be part of the circle also, and in fact it was him that gave me the idea, but unfortunately he was modkilled for roleclaiming to me without realising it was against the rules. I'm not saying that I trust any of you, in fact I'm quite sure at least one of you is mafia or at least anti-town. However this is more about comparing ideas and talking, as suggested in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181300¤tpage=2#29 Please let me know if you are interested. GeneralHankerchief http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/P2Q2Za9db76b5 As for your alignment, you seem to be playing similar to orgah. What that means I don't know. Original Message From gryffindor: do you have any reads so far? what do you believe i am aligned? you cut out the part that I was concerned with, actually I didn't change or cut anything. | ||
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On February 25 2011 05:35 annul wrote: 1 and 2: "no explanation" and then "oh wait he gave an explanation i just don't like it" No, you voted without giving any reasoning. You only gave a pathetically weak explanation later on when you were pressured to. 3: don't use ad hominems; is my CLAIM false? who cares if i have a "psych degree" - it makes sense. nobody in TL mafia has a psych degree and there are psych analyses done all the time Fair enough. I give you this one. 4: i have the absolute authority to make value judgments that inform my vote. people asked why, so i told them. it still is a bad idea. You ignore the second and third part... 5: you assume i refer to proper analysis. maybe just a "i think D is scum because (reason why)" -- it doesnt need to be PBPA or anything detailed for B to influence A and tell them to stfu. So its 'blatant redness' but only one person noticed it. 6: well, you are bad, then. k 7: yes, the idea is still bad. Ignoring the point again so basically you think i am red for railing against an idea that inherently harms the town? cool ok No. For saying stuff like 'Vote GM + chaoser lawl' For coming up with shit reasons to explain your scummy votes. For focusing on an idea instead of on the player. | ||
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On February 25 2011 05:47 Foolishness wrote: Vote: Annul So what gives you the right to pop in out of nowhere and drop a vote on the bandwagon? | ||
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I would scrutinise everyone voting for icemac. Reading through the thread it really does look like people tried to divert the wagon onto him. My biggest FOS by far right now is gryffindor. -Fucks around with fake claims -Attempts to blackmail me -Claims I edited the PMs I posted which is a barefaced lie -Tells everyone that they have to vote for icemac or annul. If everyone who left the annul BW changed to icemac he wouldn't have been lynched at all. But gryff conveniently leaves his vote on annul so he can claim 'look I lynched the scum' if the play doesn't work. (which it didn't) -Incident with the 'sarcasm' While he is probably telling the truth it doesn't mean we should ignore it completely. -Long drawn out argument with GMarshal about the cell idea, yet suddenly agrees with him and votes annul instead. I honestly think that GMarshal + gryffindor staged that to some extent. There was something fishy there. Would suggest him as a DT check target. While DTs + cops are unreliable, we should at least use the threat of them to force mafia to waste KP covering/framing. I'm going home for the weekend, and its a long, tiring trip. I probably won't be online again until tomorrow. | ||
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Lying, scummy etc. If your only defense is 'I voted annul' you are going to need something a lot better. Even your 'vote' for him was scummy. | ||
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-Comparing your own playstyles means nothing. Also SK is played differently than mafia. -Saying 'I would do this, I wouldn't do that' means nothing. -You lied, you haven't explained why you lied. I do not agree with LAL, but if you go and do something and then not give any explanation or reasoning behind it I'm going to keep my vote on you. @Others -GMarshal, I feel you gotta step up. It looks like you tried to save annul near the end. -Coag, want to explain that vote? I've been suspicious of you all game and that doesn't help -Kenpachi, Ser Aspi, JBright I want to hear more from you. -Ohn, why, LastArgument;I know you are newer players but I think you've been playing well enough so far. You should post your opinions a bit more if possible. | ||
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On February 27 2011 21:17 gryffindor wrote: I'm not going to take hours to compose a defense I would also be vary wary of ANYONE posting like this: On February 27 2011 22:21 Jackal58 wrote: Barundar, I was strongly suspecting you as being scum creating a "false" argument with LSB. A tit for tat that would sew enough doubt in everybody's mind to allow a 3rd candidate to get pushed to the lynch. But after your Homeric epic on LSB I feel that I must dismiss that idea. I don't believe Scum would go that far in a charade. Instead of believing you both to be scum I am fairly certain one of you surely is. However I am not 100% sure which. However I will be after today's lynch. As I've said before this is a numbers game. I am playing them now. Town still has a large numerical advantage. If LSB flips green you are surely scum and will be dealt with tomorrow. UNVOTE: Gryffindor VOTE: LSB On February 28 2011 00:29 chaoser wrote: if it's btw you and him...I highly doubt you are mafia in my eyes because of that post...jesus... Why have the two of you completely discounted the possibility of both of them being town? @LSB Thats not much of a defense. | ||
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On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote: Barundar's contradiction (again) Show nested quote + On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote: LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself Show nested quote + On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same Flawed/bad argument. You claimed host wouldn't pick Foolishness as mafia. He claimed there was an experienced player due to the play, and that you and Foolishness were the 2 most experienced. Theres a big difference. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote LSB | ||
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On February 28 2011 04:16 deconduo wrote: Why does everyone ignore me... First of all we have Jackal. He claimed posting PMs is scummy. When asked to explain the logic behind it he dodged the question twice then posted this gem: On February 25 2011 01:06 Jackal58 wrote: Decon- We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the posting of PM's. I think it's a bad idea. You don't. I'm over it. It's not an issue worth arguing. I'd like to know why I am the only one concerned about gryffindor and his lie. Essentially he paints it as a difference in opinion instead of responding to any of my questions or hypothetical scenarios. I point it out and no one picks up on it. LSB reponds to Barundar's analysis of him with a hugely hugely bad and flawed argument. I'm the only one that picks up on it, and I point it out. LSB and everyone else ignores it and just continues on as if nothing happened: On February 28 2011 02:15 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote: Barundar's contradiction (again) On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote: LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same Flawed/bad argument. You claimed host wouldn't pick Foolishness as mafia. He claimed there was an experienced player due to the play, and that you and Foolishness were the 2 most experienced. Theres a big difference. Finally, gryffindor lies, blackmails etc. I call him out on it. Not only does he not defend himself, everyone else just walks on by as if nothing happened: On February 26 2011 00:06 deconduo wrote: Ok, good lynch guys. I have no idea what sort of a dumb play he was making but we'll see soon enough. I wouldn't be surprised if he was bussing LSB or GMarshal or something, especially as GMarshal tried to save him in the last minute. One thing that puzzles me is that the people trying to 'save' annul all spread out their votes as opposed to focusing on trying to lynch one person. I would scrutinise everyone voting for icemac. Reading through the thread it really does look like people tried to divert the wagon onto him. My biggest FOS by far right now is gryffindor. -Fucks around with fake claims -Attempts to blackmail me -Claims I edited the PMs I posted which is a barefaced lie -Tells everyone that they have to vote for icemac or annul. If everyone who left the annul BW changed to icemac he wouldn't have been lynched at all. But gryff conveniently leaves his vote on annul so he can claim 'look I lynched the scum' if the play doesn't work. (which it didn't) -Incident with the 'sarcasm' While he is probably telling the truth it doesn't mean we should ignore it completely. -Long drawn out argument with GMarshal about the cell idea, yet suddenly agrees with him and votes annul instead. I honestly think that GMarshal + gryffindor staged that to some extent. There was something fishy there. Would suggest him as a DT check target. While DTs + cops are unreliable, we should at least use the threat of them to force mafia to waste KP covering/framing. I'm going home for the weekend, and its a long, tiring trip. I probably won't be online again until tomorrow. Maybe bright red might help. Gryffindor lied about me editing PMs and has not said anything more on the matter or defended himself on it. Also cute, saying I'm from the UK. It won't make me mad, it will just make me try my damned best to get you lynched. | ||
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On February 28 2011 21:27 gryffindor wrote: you cut off the part of the PM i was referring to would you like me to get it? it is trivial for me, as I find you to be town, but if you are really going to be pushing for lynches during the night, I might have to actually do that. How about, since you are seemingly deadset on my lynch, you respond to my wall from a page ago, as opposed to bringing up things that occurred days ago?thanks Because you never responded to the stuff that occurred days ago. Why should I just forget about it? Once again, I did not cut anything from the PMs I posted. | ||
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-Fucked up and didn't realise it OR -You're trying to wiggle your way out of a lie like with the 'sarcasm' Here is my post, read it PROPERLY: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=36#708 Notice that I did post the conversation about Orgah. you can try, but i don't believe you'll have support, as a lot of good players view me as town you are pushing me for very silly reasoning, and a personal feel you played with me as a SK, and you pushed the cell idea in Orgah (supposedly, or so you said in PM, do you dispute that?) You also backed it up here. I killed you as scum, when you were the godfather, in orgah. Sure, you are playing differently here than there, but you had red text creating your play there. You could easily be lurking/tunneling/pushing me actively just to appear like you are scumhunting when you are, actually, in fact, not. See above Deconduo pushing me is because he has a pretty funny PM in my inbox, from my perspective. I don't believe he is scum, though, due to meta, or I would have been pushing him. No, I'm pushing you because you lied, threatened and have been playing thoroughly untownlike. Your opinions on everything switch every 10 seconds. You've been antagonising me on purpose for whatever reason. Also, as I said before I've posted every PM I we've had. Pretty good reason for voting you no? you appear to be actively lurking, and tunneling, from my perspective of course it's easy for me to pick up on this, as it's me you're tunneling on. As I said on friday I was going home for the weekend and would be on less. I'm back now. In addition, EU timezone makes it harder to be active as I'm asleep when most of the action is going on. Look at any other game I've played in. Also, I'm not tunnelling you. I have voiced FOSes on other people, even voted for LSB last lynch due to his hugely flawed defence against Barundar. You have just been the scummiest player from my point of view. (See above) No, I really didn't. Deconduo was talking about how he proposed the cell idea from Orgah, where he was scum, and he also supported said idea here, making it look like he was scum. How is that lying? You lied about me editing/cutting PMs. Admit you were wrong and apologise and I'll forget about the PM thing and the blackmail for now. However you still haven't answered as to why you went from going after GMarshal for the cells idea to proposing it as your own... | ||
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On February 28 2011 23:57 LSB wrote: Show nested quote + On February 28 2011 20:13 deconduo wrote: To explain why I'm getting pissed off at this game, and why I posted this: On February 28 2011 04:16 deconduo wrote: Why does everyone ignore me... First of all we have Jackal. He claimed posting PMs is scummy. When asked to explain the logic behind it he dodged the question twice then posted this gem: On February 25 2011 01:06 Jackal58 wrote: Decon- We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the posting of PM's. I think it's a bad idea. You don't. I'm over it. It's not an issue worth arguing. I'd like to know why I am the only one concerned about gryffindor and his lie. Essentially he paints it as a difference in opinion instead of responding to any of my questions or hypothetical scenarios. I point it out and no one picks up on it. LSB reponds to Barundar's analysis of him with a hugely hugely bad and flawed argument. I'm the only one that picks up on it, and I point it out. LSB and everyone else ignores it and just continues on as if nothing happened: On February 28 2011 02:15 deconduo wrote: On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote: Barundar's contradiction (again) On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote: LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same Flawed/bad argument. You claimed host wouldn't pick Foolishness as mafia. He claimed there was an experienced player due to the play, and that you and Foolishness were the 2 most experienced. Theres a big difference. Finally, gryffindor lies, blackmails etc. I call him out on it. Not only does he not defend himself, everyone else just walks on by as if nothing happened: On February 26 2011 00:06 deconduo wrote: Ok, good lynch guys. I have no idea what sort of a dumb play he was making but we'll see soon enough. I wouldn't be surprised if he was bussing LSB or GMarshal or something, especially as GMarshal tried to save him in the last minute. One thing that puzzles me is that the people trying to 'save' annul all spread out their votes as opposed to focusing on trying to lynch one person. I would scrutinise everyone voting for icemac. Reading through the thread it really does look like people tried to divert the wagon onto him. My biggest FOS by far right now is gryffindor. -Fucks around with fake claims -Attempts to blackmail me -Claims I edited the PMs I posted which is a barefaced lie -Tells everyone that they have to vote for icemac or annul. If everyone who left the annul BW changed to icemac he wouldn't have been lynched at all. But gryff conveniently leaves his vote on annul so he can claim 'look I lynched the scum' if the play doesn't work. (which it didn't) -Incident with the 'sarcasm' While he is probably telling the truth it doesn't mean we should ignore it completely. -Long drawn out argument with GMarshal about the cell idea, yet suddenly agrees with him and votes annul instead. I honestly think that GMarshal + gryffindor staged that to some extent. There was something fishy there. Would suggest him as a DT check target. While DTs + cops are unreliable, we should at least use the threat of them to force mafia to waste KP covering/framing. I'm going home for the weekend, and its a long, tiring trip. I probably won't be online again until tomorrow. Maybe bright red might help. Gryffindor lied about me editing PMs and has not said anything more on the matter or defended himself on it. Also cute, saying I'm from the UK. It won't make me mad, it will just make me try my damned best to get you lynched. I feel ignored www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=50#991 Missed that one | ||
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On February 28 2011 04:25 LSB wrote: Show nested quote + On February 28 2011 02:15 deconduo wrote: On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote: Barundar's contradiction (again) On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote: LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same Flawed/bad argument. You claimed host wouldn't pick Foolishness as mafia. He claimed there was an experienced player due to the play, and that you and Foolishness were the 2 most experienced. Theres a big difference. There is a difference, and it's not what you say. They arguments are similar as both of them 1) Make assumptions on RoL's picks 2) Assume that Foolishness is mafia There is a few differences. My support of foolishness is weak, I recongnize that the argument shouldn't go far Barundar uses this assumption as central of FOS of me. His argument is that between LSB and Foolishness, foolishness is probably town so LSB must be mafia. In addition another difference is that I'm not accusing Barundar of being scum because of this argument. The difference is I'm pointing out that Barundar made the exact same argument and it is hypocritical of him to try to accuse me of being scum for using my argument. Lets look at the important part of the post: On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote: Show nested quote + On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same You were very selective, here is the full quote from Barundar: On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: Looking over the lynch again, we got off way too easy. Several people called annul out asking for better reasoning and posts, or at least some sort of defense. A good part of his votes was basicly people who didn’t know who else to put their vote on, finding his defense lacking or his posting obstructive. It was by no means a strong bandwagon, and I believe that if annul had really wanted he could have saved himself. Heck, if I had been on his team I would have pressured him to defend himself better as to not die to a weak lynch. No strong counter bandwagon appeared. His goodbye post was not concerned, and he even wished town good luck, wtf? When we got him in mafia xxxv he kicked up a fight and wrote a very emotional goodbye post. At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. LSB is the most suspicious of the 2. He wasn’t the first to get suspicious of annul, or to call him out on his bad play, but he tried to take full credit for the lynch, asking for medic protection instantly. This is exactly how a mafia who has just bussed his team mate will act. LSB had a possible scumslip to boot: Show nested quote + For example, in PM gryffindor just defended Iceman/annul. When annul flips red this will prove very useful information. Foolishness on the other hand voted annul to pressure him. He later changed his vote to pressure seraph, and left it there until the lynch. If I was mafia buddy with annul I would have left my vote on him to get town cred or to try and save him. FoS LSB My point still stands. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
Barundar uses this assumption as central of FOS of me. His argument is that between LSB and Foolishness, foolishness is probably town so LSB must be mafia. Nope, he uses the kill pattern as the central assumption. Not how ROL would pick the mafia teams.In addition another difference is that I'm not accusing Barundar of being scum because of this argument. The difference is I'm pointing out that Barundar made the exact same argument and it is hypocritical of him to try to accuse me of being scum for using my argument. Different points. Barundar's argument: Due to the kill pattern, mafia must have an experienced player. LSB and Foolishness are the only two candidates, and LSB has been much scummier than Foolishness. Your interpretation: Barundar trusts Foolisness blindly. Your reason for trusting Foolishness: RoL wouldn't make him mafia. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 01 2011 00:13 LSB wrote: That I responded to again... I don't want to dig it up. Firstly, you didn't respond to any part of my post just threw up another post pretending it disproved it Yes I did. I clarified there. Secondly, to say that is the central analysis of the post is plain silly Didn't say this Thirdly, to say that not voting for annul = town is silly I agree. But once again, taken out of context. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 01 2011 00:19 Jackal58 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 28 2011 20:13 deconduo wrote: First of all we have Jackal. He claimed posting PMs is scummy. When asked to explain the logic behind it he dodged the question twice then posted this gem: On February 25 2011 01:06 Jackal58 wrote: Decon- We'll simply have to agree to disagree on the posting of PM's. I think it's a bad idea. You don't. I'm over it. It's not an issue worth arguing. I didn't dodge it. You just didn't like my answer. Ya the one you skipped. And now you're in a pissing contest over the content of a posted PM. Have fun. We got scum here folks. Here was the post in question: On February 25 2011 00:46 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 22:41 Jackal58 wrote: On February 24 2011 22:35 deconduo wrote: Jackal, you haven't clarified this: + Show Spoiler + On February 24 2011 05:31 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 02:18 Jackal58 wrote: On February 24 2011 02:13 GMarshal wrote: On February 24 2011 02:11 Jackal58 wrote: On February 24 2011 02:00 deconduo wrote: On February 24 2011 01:56 Jackal58 wrote: I have received a PM from GMarshall as well. Whoopee. I will probably even answer him. But posting quotes and copies of PMs is a very scummy thing to do. You can make them say anything. Please stop. What? If someone manipulates or changes PMs to say what they want that's a scum caught straight away. Also as easy for 2 scum or more to edit and post PMs to kill town While I appreciate the sentiment, I don't think that's an issue right now, even if that did happen, when the townie flipped green we would immediately go after the people who posted the PM I understand that. But if we get in that habit scum will use it to kill us at endgame. Better not doing it at all. So your reasoning is: Two mafia might edit a PM and post it to gang up on a townie to get them lynched in a lylo situation so therefore don't do it at all ever. Anyone who does post a PM is scummy. This is so flawed I don't even know where to begin.... What is your logic behind telling people not to quote or post PMs? It honestly does not make any sense to me. It feels an irrational conclusion to jump to. I did explain it. Go ahead and post PM content. Go ahead and get comfy with it. Go ahead and watch scum use that to destroy town at end game. I think it's a horrid idea. I honestly 100% don't understand your logic. From what I can gather you are saying the following. In a lylo situation, 2 mafia 3 town say. Person A + B post PMs showing C is mafia. C denies it and says they are faked. Now according to you, i)If no PMs were posted previously, people A+B would be lynched. ii)If a couple of PMs had been posted previously, and people were 'comfy' with it, C would be lynched. How you managed to get here I have no clue whatsoever. There must be some huge step in logic that I'm missing as to what universe you think this would happen in. -Your 'explanation' was mafia would use it to destroy town at end game. I gave you an example of your supposed endgame situation. You completely ignored it and simple put it down to opinion. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 01 2011 00:33 LSB wrote: Sorry, I gave barundar more credit for his argument than it was do Umm... So more unsupport arguments? It doesn't take a genious to take a gun to Priority 2 players who probably weren't medic protected. Why do I have to be at the helm of any intresting play? In addtion, that is one gigantic WIFORM Lets assume that LSB is scum That means foolishness is town Which means LSB is scum. My biggest problem with you wasn't Barun's analysis. It was the way you defended yourself from it with a completely bad argument. If his argument was so full of holes or so terrible, why attack that minor point with such flawed reasoning. Also that you ignored my post, but I was wrong about that sorry | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 01 2011 00:34 gryffindor wrote: Deconduo, I admit that you posted the majority of our PM conversations, but I recall feeling you left something out. Perhaps I was wrong, but it's way more of a big deal to you than me, apparently, since I'm so "scummy". Well of course it was a big deal to me. You claimed I edited/cut PMs when I did not and then IGNORED ME when I called you out on it. @Gmarshal, I like your defense of your view on Icemac @Deconduo, in relation to the cell idea, I misunderstood it at first. I thought it was for selective claiming. After I realized it wasn't, I wanted to propose a counter-list, as I thought that it was likely GMarshal, you, and annul were scum at the time. Perhaps I'm getting one of you confused with Chaoser? Fair enough As it is, though, I am not as suspicious | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 01 2011 00:38 gryffindor wrote: Also, I knew the list I made was completely randomized, whereas GMarshal had admitted to tweaking his. Is it sad that I am almost as afraid, if not moreso, of dying to a terrible vigilante shot? @Vig, if you are going to hit me, claim in thread beforehand so you can be clear and lead a lynch tomorrow. Why not go with the 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 etc, which could not be set up by anyone? | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 01 2011 00:46 gryffindor wrote: that's actually a good idea, though I admittedly hadn't thought of that. It was posted quite a few times in response to GMarshal... | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
On March 01 2011 01:03 LSB wrote: Deconduo. Do you have a scum read on me? Or do you just want to criqute my posting style? And you still ignore my posts where I explain the reasoning is perfectly rational. Your chasing a ghost that doesn't exist I don't know is it my wording or way of posting but it just feels that no one is understanding what my arguments are. Either that or you are avoiding them by being obtuse on purpose. You said Barun was being hypocritical by calling you scummy for assuming Foolishness's innocence while doing the same himself. I explained why the two situations were different. You based your assumption on what the host would do. Barun did not in fact assume Foolishness was innocent, merely much less scummy than you. I don't know how this could be taken otherwise. I do FoS you over this situation. There are other things pointing at you, but this is the main issue I have. I disagree that your reasoning is perfectly rational. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
I FoS you over your reaction/defence. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote: Barundar's contradiction (again) Show nested quote + On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote: LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself Show nested quote + On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same -You claimed Barun speculated on rolepicks when he did not -You claimed Barun trusted Foolishness with no reasoning My response: + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2011 02:15 deconduo wrote: Show nested quote + On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote: Barundar's contradiction (again) On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote: LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same Flawed/bad argument. You claimed host wouldn't pick Foolishness as mafia. He claimed there was an experienced player due to the play, and that you and Foolishness were the 2 most experienced. Theres a big difference. -I explain the difference between the two quotes. One is based of 'what host would do' Other is based of off looking at kills. I never say that Barun's method was good or bad, just a lot different to what you did and to what you claim it to be. Your response: + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2011 04:25 LSB wrote: Show nested quote + On February 28 2011 02:15 deconduo wrote: On February 28 2011 02:09 LSB wrote: Barundar's contradiction (again) On February 27 2011 19:04 Barundar wrote: LSB doesn’t need convincing of Foolishness either: Everyone trusts certain people. For example, I'm trusting Foolishness because I don't believe that RoL would make him mafia given the state of TL town. This argument has no behaviour support at this point in the game. It’s an arbitrary reason for placing trust in someone, and it lacks that distrust of others that is indicative of town behaviour. So we can't speculate about role picks? Oh look what you did yourself On February 27 2011 01:43 Barundar wrote: At the same time it’s clear from the night hits that we have at least 1 experienced analysist on the scum team. The only really experienced players in the game are LSB and Foolishness. In fact, you did the exact same thing. You trusted Foolishness with Absolute no behavior support and accused me of being scum for doing the same Flawed/bad argument. You claimed host wouldn't pick Foolishness as mafia. He claimed there was an experienced player due to the play, and that you and Foolishness were the 2 most experienced. Theres a big difference. There is a difference, and it's not what you say. They arguments are similar as both of them 1) Make assumptions on RoL's picks 2) Assume that Foolishness is mafia There is a few differences. My support of foolishness is weak, I recongnize that the argument shouldn't go far Barundar uses this assumption as central of FOS of me. His argument is that between LSB and Foolishness, foolishness is probably town so LSB must be mafia. In addition another difference is that I'm not accusing Barundar of being scum because of this argument. The difference is I'm pointing out that Barundar made the exact same argument and it is hypocritical of him to try to accuse me of being scum for using my argument. -1)Barun made no assumption on picks -2)Barun did not assume Foolishness was town. Merely that at least one of you is mafia, and that you were scummier. As far as I can see he never discounted a situation where both of you are mafia, Even if that was the case, he would still have cause to push you (obviously) and so its irrelevent. Maybe I'm assuming too much from his point of view and should let him speak himself. Thats the case as I see it however. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 01 2011 00:03 GMT
#1207
On March 01 2011 08:38 LSB wrote: Hmmm... If you think so... Show nested quote + -2)Barun did not assume Foolishness was town. Merely that at least one of you is mafia, Wait what??? No assumptions on pics? Have you been ignoring EVERYTHING I POSTED? Barun assumed one of you were mafia because of the kills. Because of the kills. Because of the kills. Because of the kills. Its come up about twenty times. How hard is it to drill this into your brain. It even came up in THAT POST! | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 01 2011 16:53 GMT
#1289
+ Show Spoiler + The Axis: Lunar, Seraph, JBright These guys have been lumped together as scum by the allies. To be honest, I feel the case against them is weak at best, but I'm not very good at scumhunting. Still, I don't think Lunar responded too well to the case against him. He also has enough experience to know that self-voting and defeatism is somewhat of a town tell. Seraph had a similar amount of posts in Pokemafia and only slightly more in XXXV at this point (30 vs 50) JBright I dunno, don't have a read on him really. The Allies: Foolishness, Ser Aspi, LSB Ser Aspi is pretty obviously parroting what Foolishness has said. I put LSB in this group due to Foolishness swooping in out of nowhere to save his ass by switching the bandwagon to LD. I think if Foolishness is mafia then I'd be pretty certain about the other two as well. Not the other way around however. Similarly if Lunar is mafia I'd probably cross off Foolishness and LSB. I doubt mafia would bus two days in a row. The weird posting: Gryff, Coag, Bumatlarge, Jackal58 Gryff should be obvious. Coag has 110 posts in the game, all of them one liners. He has voted for people without explanation or reasoning. Bum has so few posts in the game I'm surprised no one has picked up on it. If Foolishness is focusing on different playstyles, this should be pretty obvious yet he hasn't mentioned it at all. Jackal is here because of his bizarre opinions on posting PMs and use of logic. Lurking: ohN - 4 posts, not short ones but nothing big enough to get noticed. Said he would contribute more but hasn't so far. why - Seems to sheep a fair bit. He hasn't really offered any of his own opinions as far as I can see, just tagged on to others. Not a lot of posts. LastA - Has some opinions at least, not a lot of posts either though. Cubed - Somewhat inactive also, but has an excuse. kevconsim - More posts than the rest but mostly spam/one liners. Others: GMarshal, chaoser, Barundar If anything, my gut says they are more likely to be town. Voting patterns: + Show Spoiler + Same votes: LSB: Annul, Icemac chaoser: annul, Icemac Gryff: annul, icemac Cubed: annul, icemac kevconsim: annul, icemac Coag: gryff, JBright Jackal58: gryff, Jbright Axis of evil? Lunar: Icemac, Lunar Seraph: Ican, Icemac JBright: JBright, Icemac One green Ican/bum: icemac, LSB why: Icemac, Lunar Ser Aspi: Mr Wig, Lunar One red decon: annul, LSB Unknown Foolishness: Seraph, LD Barundar: Jackal, LSB LastA: ican, LSB GMarshal:Ican, JBright ohn: gryff, Lunar Mafia kills*: Darmousseh: annul Kitaman27: darmousseh Mr. Wiggles: annul Kenpachi: kenpachi, icemac Beneather: icemac, icemac OriginalName: icemac, lunar *Possible vig day 2 Other: + Show Spoiler + Vig claiming now would be kind of reassuring. Don't forget that you are essentially a normal townie now so theres no real reason to stay quiet. If there was no vig shot then we are very close to lylo judging by the KP. Either that or one of LSB/Jackal is lying about being roleblocked for whatever reason. The kills last night were strange also. None of the three had been doing anything interesting and curiously, none of them had voted for annul in the day 1 lynch. In addition they had all been voting for town, except possibly ON's 2nd vote. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 01 2011 16:58 GMT
#1290
Between the three I think I'd be most suspicious of Lunar. Similar to LSB I don't think he defended himself well against the accusation. Vote:LunarDestiny | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 02 2011 00:08 GMT
#1306
On March 02 2011 09:01 LSB wrote: I agree 4 KP is overpowered, but I do believe that Jackal is telling the truth. I still think we should lynch Barundar. My points about him forcing analysis still stands. Or we should check out the Iceman lynch day 1 to see if it was actually a bus by mafia. People who voted for annul day 1: LSB, chaoser, Gryff, Cubed, kevconsim, me. Note that apart from me all of these voted for icemac on day 2. If it was a bus then this would be a group to look at very closely. People who voted for icemac day 1: Lunar, bum*, why *was icanfly at this point I think. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 02 2011 01:31 GMT
#1309
On March 02 2011 10:05 kevconsim wrote: ## Vote JBright Out of everyone who has been posting i have been suspicious of him since yesterday. I guess we will see. Why are you suspicious of him? | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 02 2011 15:30 GMT
#1340
Sent at 3/2/11 01:13 Original Message From gryffindor: Already on top of it! To: Coagulation [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: mafi Date: 3/1/11 21:23 why are you voting JBright with a nearly RVS-style post on d3? Can you not make a case? Like, are you completely incapable of giving proper reasoning? Show nested quote + Original Message From deconduo: Coag has 110 posts in the game, all but ~3 of them are one liners. I know he has a spammy reputation but I'm pretty sure he contributed a lot more in Orgah. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 02 2011 21:43 GMT
#1394
Cubed does have a good point that people seem to be missing. Why ignore the possibility of Jackal being the one with the fake roleclaim. Chaoser doesn't even mention it and bum simply says 'Now, I can't say much on jackal' Regardless of what the situation is with them is, the fact that this was ignored in the analysis is the important point. Those PMs do paint a somewhat different picture of seraph. If seraph was trying to bus annul why didn't he do so in the thread? | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 02 2011 21:44 GMT
#1395
On March 03 2011 06:39 Foolishness wrote: btw did you guys know there is a player in this game by the name of "LastArgument"? Did you guys know that he's probably mafia? Just a friendly reminder. I was just about to say that theres a lot of lurkers, especially ohn and LA. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 02 2011 21:55 GMT
#1400
On March 03 2011 06:50 Jackal58 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 03 2011 06:43 deconduo wrote: Just a few things: Cubed does have a good point that people seem to be missing. Why ignore the possibility of Jackal being the one with the fake roleclaim. Chaoser doesn't even mention it and bum simply says 'Now, I can't say much on jackal' Regardless of what the situation is with them is, the fact that this was ignored in the analysis is the important point. Those PMs do paint a somewhat different picture of seraph. If seraph was trying to bus annul why didn't he do so in the thread? It's because LSB is at the front end of several peoples scum list. The only reason I can think of. I fully expected to be thoroughly grilled by posting my RB. Again the point is not whether or not you are more suspicious than LSB, but that chaos and bum completely ignored the possibility of it. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 02 2011 23:41 GMT
#1413
On February 10 2011 15:40 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Voting rules: 1. Voting is done (in a separate thread, located *NOT MADE YET*). When you vote, you must ALSO post in the main thread saying your vote. This is to keep the game in the game, while also making vote tally's more manageable. Do not PM me your vote. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 02 2011 23:56 GMT
#1421
Given a choice between those three I'm going to stick with my gut from yesterday. Unvote ##Vote LSB | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 03 2011 00:01 GMT
#1423
chaoser: annul, icemac, JBright Cubed: annul, icemac, JBright kevconsim: annul, icemac, JBright <- new player I think but serious lurker. votes without explaining. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 03 2011 00:09 GMT
#1427
On March 03 2011 09:02 chaoser wrote: Show nested quote + On March 03 2011 09:01 deconduo wrote: Just a note: chaoser: annul, icemac, JBright Cubed: annul, icemac, JBright kevconsim: annul, icemac, JBright <- new player I think but serious lurker. votes without explaining. please post more lists that have no meaning because they take out all the context. I like lists. I'm not very good at doing huge long analyses on people, so I look at little things that other people tend to gloss over. Like voting patterns. Like what wagons people were on and why they changed. In this case, the three of you have voted the exact same way so far in all lynches. Might be a coincidence but what harm does it do to post it? FYI you are one of the few people I have pegged as probably town. Also its not out of context because there is no context. It is what it is. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 03 2011 00:18 GMT
#1430
On March 03 2011 09:07 CubEdIn wrote: So, at first you agree with me that it's suspicious that people bussed LSB, while ignoring Jackal, which can mean that at least some of the mafia were happy he's being targeted and jumped on board. But then you go like 'fuck it' and vote for him anyway. And voting patterns don't mean much, especially if you point them out so soon, so that Mafia will know to start switching them up the following days. Its somewhat suspicious and worth pointing out. Its nothing major though, and while I'd suspect bum because of his small amount of posts, chaoser would be fairly low down on my suspect list as I said above. Its just a drop in the water compared to my suspicions of LSB. Its hard for mafia to switch up their patterns if one of their buddies is on the line. Maybe I should have waited a bit but I felt like a good time to post it as I don't particularly like the JBright wagon right now. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 03 2011 00:29 GMT
#1433
On March 03 2011 09:25 Jackal58 wrote: I am going to change my vote in a bit to either JBright or Seraph. But I want to wait to ensure we actually get a lynch. I also want to see who shows up trying to push a diversion. Please try to stay active in the last hour town. Please????? I'm off to bed unfortunately. Late lynch deadline really fucks over us EUs | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 04 2011 14:45 GMT
#1603
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 04 2011 16:36 GMT
#1607
1) Mafia hit 2) Vig hit 3) Lie 1. Is extremely unlikely for obvious reasons. Only thing I can think of would be an attempted blue snipe. His lurking would draw mafia just as it drew town attention. Even still, much better targets out there imo. 2. No vig has claimed and theres no reason for them to stay quiet. 3. Most obvious scenario. Huge analysis done against him and suddenly he's hit? Again, a vig hit would make sense because of this but no-one has claimed. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 04 2011 16:56 GMT
#1608
Also he hasn't posted since the lynch at all. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 04 2011 17:04 GMT
#1609
I don't understand why they chose bumatlarge. What's not to understand? If I were mafia I would go for a lot of other people, like Ser Aspi, LSB, GM, LunarD, etc. Heck, even you would make a better target. I need to go over bum's posts to see what he did to piss them off. I don't see why bum is such a bad target. He's a pretty good player even if he hadn't been posting a whole lot this game. Even then, if I was mafia I'd have pegged him as a blue because of it. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 04 2011 23:53 GMT
#1639
##Vote: LSB | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 05 2011 00:21 GMT
#1645
On March 05 2011 09:18 CubEdIn wrote: If LSB didn't hit LA, then either: a) Mafia did it - makes no sense b) Another vig did it and is keeping quiet - makes even less sense. I get that LSB's defense doesn't look good, but that doesn't mean he's red. He might just be trying to justify the fact that he did something stupid. Also, @ why, thanks for the shout-out, lol. You missed c) He's lying | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 05 2011 00:21 GMT
#1646
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 05 2011 01:17 GMT
#1649
On March 05 2011 10:16 Coagulation wrote: CubEdIn WHO ARE YOU GONNA VOTE AND WHY? Cubed, LA, LSB, kev are scum. Cubed is probably the GF. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 05 2011 01:20 GMT
#1650
On March 05 2011 10:17 deconduo wrote: Cubed, LA, LSB, kev are scum. Cubed is probably the GF. LSB as GF makes more sense actually. He probably picked vig. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 05 2011 23:55 GMT
#1753
WTF just happened. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 00:05 GMT
#1754
1) Mafia hit Foolishness, LA, LSB. LSB shot bumatlarge. LSB was medic protected. LA is vet. 2) Mafia hit Foolishness, LA, bumatlarge. LSB is lying about being vig. LA is vet. 3) Mafia hit Foolishness, bumatlarge. LSB, LA lying. 4) Something I'm missing. If it is situation 1 or 2, why would mafia hit LA? | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 00:14 GMT
#1758
-Why did you lie about hitting LA -Why did you not claim hit earlier -Did LA actually get hit? | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 00:20 GMT
#1760
On March 06 2011 05:47 Jackal58 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 06 2011 04:52 chaoser wrote: I just want to say that this is win win for town, if LSB is red then we have the rest of the red team. If LSB is vigi then we have pretty much a confirmed townie and we can all claim if we decide that's the wisest choice and work from there. If DT/cops are still alive we can narrow down the suspects like whoa. Lemme rain on your collective parades. 1. LSB is town 2. LSB is vigi. 3. LSB shot bumatlarge not LA. 4. I am speaking for one of our medics. 5. LSB was hit on the last night cycle. 6. LSB is protecting LA for reasons that none of us in the circle truly understand. 7. LSB believes LA to be town. That is his belief alone. I am not defending LA. 8. Nobody in our circle is defending LA. 9. I cannot name any of the others in our circle without throwing medics and others to the wolves. I will not do that. Do not ask Gryff. I will not answer. 10. I have been in contact with people that were in a circle with Foolishness. !!. Their scum list matches ours on 3 out of 4 names. There are 2 ways you guys can confirm some of this. 1 - Continue with you lynch of LSB. He is a vigi. This will provide absolutely no info on LA. Will only let you know that I'm not bullshitting you. 2 - Lynch me. You get a vanilla townie. And no other useful information. Both options are anti-town. We need all the townies we can get no matter if they are lucid or not. Lynch Chaoser. How did you come to the 'Lynch Chaoser' conclusion from this post. Whether or not the rest of it is true, you have a really annoying habit of making large leaps in logic and not explaining them. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 00:20 GMT
#1761
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 00:30 GMT
#1762
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 00:36 GMT
#1764
On March 06 2011 09:32 CubEdIn wrote: because you're european. joke's on you lolololololol. I don't know what to do if people don't talk to me. This feels like a huuuuge endgame play by mafia but I just don't know. There's been no analysis done on chaoser as far as I can see. Ser Aspi is hanging the entire case against him on a single post. From what I can see, Jackal has done no analysis and just voted chaoser out of the blue. Theres so much behind the scenes stuff going on, you can't expect me to just say 'I trust you' and go along with it. Give me something. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 00:41 GMT
#1768
On March 06 2011 09:38 LSB wrote: Show nested quote + On March 06 2011 09:20 deconduo wrote: On March 06 2011 05:47 Jackal58 wrote: On March 06 2011 04:52 chaoser wrote: I just want to say that this is win win for town, if LSB is red then we have the rest of the red team. If LSB is vigi then we have pretty much a confirmed townie and we can all claim if we decide that's the wisest choice and work from there. If DT/cops are still alive we can narrow down the suspects like whoa. Lemme rain on your collective parades. 1. LSB is town 2. LSB is vigi. 3. LSB shot bumatlarge not LA. 4. I am speaking for one of our medics. 5. LSB was hit on the last night cycle. 6. LSB is protecting LA for reasons that none of us in the circle truly understand. 7. LSB believes LA to be town. That is his belief alone. I am not defending LA. 8. Nobody in our circle is defending LA. 9. I cannot name any of the others in our circle without throwing medics and others to the wolves. I will not do that. Do not ask Gryff. I will not answer. 10. I have been in contact with people that were in a circle with Foolishness. !!. Their scum list matches ours on 3 out of 4 names. There are 2 ways you guys can confirm some of this. 1 - Continue with you lynch of LSB. He is a vigi. This will provide absolutely no info on LA. Will only let you know that I'm not bullshitting you. 2 - Lynch me. You get a vanilla townie. And no other useful information. Both options are anti-town. We need all the townies we can get no matter if they are lucid or not. Lynch Chaoser. How did you come to the 'Lynch Chaoser' conclusion from this post. Whether or not the rest of it is true, you have a really annoying habit of making large leaps in logic and not explaining them. Read this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=86#1706 LSB - 8 Barundar gryffindor deconduo why chaoser kevconsim GMarshal ohN All these voted for you. Why focus on chaoser? | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 00:51 GMT
#1771
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 00:58 GMT
#1777
On March 06 2011 09:54 Coagulation wrote: Show nested quote + On March 06 2011 09:39 GMarshal wrote: Alright, take a good look at lsb, he has been lying all game. That is by definition not town play. While his bait and switch plan *looks* good its actually entirely inconclusive and proves nothing at all, all it did was derail town discussion with lies and try to protect LA from being lynched. LSB is most likely scum, lynch him IM THE MEDIC I MEDIC PROT HIM LAST NIGHT AND BLOCKED A HIT. LSB IS CONFIRMED TOWN. Ok. Why is chaoser mafia? | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 01:01 GMT
#1782
On March 06 2011 09:58 LSB wrote: Show nested quote + On March 06 2011 09:41 deconduo wrote: On March 06 2011 09:38 LSB wrote: On March 06 2011 09:20 deconduo wrote: On March 06 2011 05:47 Jackal58 wrote: On March 06 2011 04:52 chaoser wrote: I just want to say that this is win win for town, if LSB is red then we have the rest of the red team. If LSB is vigi then we have pretty much a confirmed townie and we can all claim if we decide that's the wisest choice and work from there. If DT/cops are still alive we can narrow down the suspects like whoa. Lemme rain on your collective parades. 1. LSB is town 2. LSB is vigi. 3. LSB shot bumatlarge not LA. 4. I am speaking for one of our medics. 5. LSB was hit on the last night cycle. 6. LSB is protecting LA for reasons that none of us in the circle truly understand. 7. LSB believes LA to be town. That is his belief alone. I am not defending LA. 8. Nobody in our circle is defending LA. 9. I cannot name any of the others in our circle without throwing medics and others to the wolves. I will not do that. Do not ask Gryff. I will not answer. 10. I have been in contact with people that were in a circle with Foolishness. !!. Their scum list matches ours on 3 out of 4 names. There are 2 ways you guys can confirm some of this. 1 - Continue with you lynch of LSB. He is a vigi. This will provide absolutely no info on LA. Will only let you know that I'm not bullshitting you. 2 - Lynch me. You get a vanilla townie. And no other useful information. Both options are anti-town. We need all the townies we can get no matter if they are lucid or not. Lynch Chaoser. How did you come to the 'Lynch Chaoser' conclusion from this post. Whether or not the rest of it is true, you have a really annoying habit of making large leaps in logic and not explaining them. Read this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=86#1706 LSB - 8 Barundar gryffindor deconduo why chaoser kevconsim GMarshal ohN All these voted for you. Why focus on chaoser? Read the analysis. The thing with Chaoser is he already wrote a long detailed analysis on LA. But at the same time, immediately abandoned it and took the bait. This is not townie play. This is mafia trying to kill the better player play. If he was townie, he'd actually believe his analysis of LA, and stuck with it instead of jumping Given the situation, his logic made sense. Lynching you gives more information than lynching LA given what was known. I would not do the same thing as its essentially lynching for information. I want to lynch you because you are all over the place. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 01:04 GMT
#1785
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 01:05 GMT
#1788
On March 06 2011 10:04 LSB wrote: Gmarshal, you seriously think 3/4 of the scum team would just now claim to support me? If this play wins you the game, yes. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 01:11 GMT
#1804
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 01:13 GMT
#1810
LSB, LA, Cubed, Jackal. For posterity. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 06 2011 23:08 GMT
#1947
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 07 2011 23:58 GMT
#2008
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 08 2011 00:11 GMT
#2011
On March 08 2011 09:05 GMarshal wrote: Well JBright is dead, you can feel free to try to kill him again if you please though -_- | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 08 2011 00:14 GMT
#2012
On March 08 2011 09:06 Coagulation wrote: hes gonna be modkilled. dont waste vote on him. ##Vote:oHn Hardcore lurker, hasn't voted for a mafia, some longish posts that don't really say anything. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 08 2011 00:23 GMT
#2013
+ Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 19:21 ohN wrote: 'Just finished catching up My thoughts: Cells are a good idea but GMarshal giving us predetermined groups that he thinks we should work with is pretty scummy. They weren't just like 1-3, 4-6 either, he moved them around to his liking. Not a good candidate for day1 lynch because I don't feel that that alone is enough to incriminate him but definitely FoS on him. I dont see how people think + Show Spoiler + On February 23 2011 12:40 chaoser wrote: Ok, so like Gmarshal said, we shouldn't depend on blues this game. Especially since RoL specifically said this game was to punish us for what happened in Salam. At the same thing, I don't think the mafia powers are all THAT powerful. Let them frame away, that's one less death to worry about. PMs are allowed but PLEASE don't just give out crazy info in them (roleclaim, etc.). The point of town is not to have 1 leader controlling everything but small circles that are separated so that if one goes down, the others can still operate. Let's all work together and not let a few players handle all the work (which always seems to happen). This means contributing pleaseee. Him noting that mafia isn't that powerful is something anybody could point out. Role reversal has huge potential but only if mafia has a confirmed blue. They still have to give up an entire kp to use it so they will not be open to using it without being absolutely sure. Role reversal on a townie does nothing except waste a kp. I'll probably end up voting for someone who hasn't posted anything useful or that guy who thought annul was inactive(lol). I thought that post wasn't too scummy either, but he did defend chaoser. On February 25 2011 10:26 ohN wrote: Icemac is probably town. Bad d1 lynch target. Looks more like a bad/aggressive player than scum. I'm still not convinced annul is a good lynch. Show nested quote + On February 25 2011 07:25 LSB wrote: Storytime! Why Annul was an easy read in XXXV 1) He mad up stuff and pushed stuff that didn't exist Check, this game he's pushing GMarshal, saying GMarshal is clear mafia, although there is literally nothing in his accusation 2) Besides responses, he posted nothing else Look at Annul's posts. How many of his posts deal with things other than Gmarshal or defending himself? I can't find any. Annul's not pushing GM that hard, he simply pointed out that GM had a bad idea and is calling him out on it. I don't think he ever said "GM is clear mafia." GM DID propose an arguably terrible plan; how come nobody else is calling him out for that? Annul's not looking any more scum than GM here in my eyes. Barundar's accusation of Jackal is definitely not convincing but it's not utter crap either. It's an interesting point to look back to in the near future. Slight FoS on Jackal imo. And finally, why is gryff not getting lynched? Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 15:20 gryffindor wrote: the HOST actually told me it was a good idea. Blatant lie here. Show nested quote + On February 23 2011 17:26 gryffindor wrote: On February 23 2011 13:19 GMarshal wrote: for arguments sake going to create analysis cells, use them for informational analysis (even assuming I were scum there is no way) I could ensure each has a mafia member in it as there isn't enough mafia to go around (I am trying to put at least 1 TL vet in each) as the game progresses and people die we can have new cells form. (also you are free to create your own parallel cells) 1. Coagulation, LSB, gryffindor 2 GMarshal, seRapH, OriginalName 3 Mr. Wiggles, ICanFlyLow, kevconsim 4 Barundar, LastArgument , why 5 darmousseh, Ser Aspi, Kenpachi 6 Gofarman, chaoser, ohN 7 astroorion, CubEdIn, Jackal58 8 Beneather, annul, Conversion 9 icemac, Foolishness, LunarDestiny 10 deconduo, kitaman27, JBright This is just a suggestion, but I think it is a good one, discuss This would get us raped by the role reverser, and is really a scummy idea unvote; ##Vote: GMarshal Show nested quote + On February 24 2011 22:14 gryffindor wrote: Cell 1, Cell leader: Coagulation+ Show Spoiler + 1. 5. Jackal58 2. 17. astroorion 3. 1. Coagulation Cell 2, Cell leader: kitaman27+ Show Spoiler + 4. 19. Gofarman 5. 21. kitaman27 6. 12. icemac Cell 3, Cell leader: IDC, they're all competant+ Show Spoiler + 7. 6. Kenpachi 8. 2. LSB 9. 26. LunarDestiny Cell 4, Cell leader: Barundar+ Show Spoiler + 10. 30. LastArgument 11. 3. Barundar 12. 9. gryffindor Cell 5, Cell leader: deconduo+ Show Spoiler + 13. 16. ohN 14. 28. deconduo 15. 8. annul Cell 6, Cell leader: Foolishness+ Show Spoiler + 16. 18. Foolishness 17. 27. Ser Aspi 18. 22. kevconsim Cell 7, Cell leader: Seraph/Mr. Wiggles+ Show Spoiler + 19. 11. Beneather 20. 15. seRapH 21. 24. Mr. Wiggles Cell 8, Cell leader: OriginalName+ Show Spoiler + 22. 14. JBright 23. 23. ICanFlyLow 24. 13. OriginalName Cell 9, Cell leader: Chaoser+ Show Spoiler + 25. 7. darmousseh 26. 25. chaoser 27. 20. Conversion MaxwellE Cell 10, Cell leader: Cubedin+ Show Spoiler + 28. 4. CubEdIn 29. 29. why 30. 10. GMarshal Now, the "leader" to me is someone who needs to go out of their way to actually collaborate with the other people in their group. If you don't want to use my list of cells, and want to use GMarshal's, whatever. I have a good list I just made right here ready for us to use. Basically, the leaders need to go out of their way to make this work. I am fully confident in these peoples abilities to report what is going on within your cell, and to hold people accountable. Wait what. ##Vote: gryffindor Defends annul On February 26 2011 08:46 ohN wrote: Woah annul was mafia? o.O Somehow, I didn't expect that... I'll put in more analysis once day2 hits, doesn't seem worth it to type up my thoughts at the moment when day2 results could just turn them all sideways. Doesn't keep promise, never gave more analysis On February 28 2011 09:35 ohN wrote: Wow, a lot happened when I was gone. I still don't understand why we're voting icemac. He doesn't look scummy at all. Like, yeah, he posted about 0 analysis and opinion but that holds true for a lot of other people too. 'Just looks like a scapegoat that mafia are trying to redirect lynches too. Between LSB and Barundar I doubt either of them are mafia. If one of them is, it's LSB. Can't really say why I think that and there's so many pages that I just read but yeah, that's my take on the situation. So, who to vote for.. I still think gryff is suspicious, although that might just be because of his weird playstyle. I'd rather have gryff lynched than icemac to be honest. Reading through, Foolishness's post like 2-3 above this has a good point and since I don't think LSB/Barundar/icemac are mafia, there goes my vote. ##Vote: LunarDestiny Still don't know of LD is scum or not, but considering he's getting modkilled today I dunno. Defends icemac again, but its easy to defend the person who the wagon is on as mafia so you can say 'Hey look I was right he's town' On March 03 2011 11:43 ohN wrote: Oh man i was so busy these past few days and i completely forgot i was playing. D: ##Vote: ohN Sorry, I'll catch up asap. Except never caught up. More empty promises. On March 05 2011 17:38 ohN wrote: Show nested quote + On March 03 2011 12:48 LSB wrote: Again, I think we should just suggest night 3 actions Medics, please protect Me and Foolishness. Vigs, if you want, you should shoot Barundar. There isn't enough on Gmarshal to justify a kill. DTs, continue checking Priority 3 people Show nested quote + On March 05 2011 05:22 LSB wrote: I claim vig. I shot LA last night after reading Foolishness's analysis. lol Show nested quote + On March 05 2011 07:16 LSB wrote: Um... why would I shoot Barundar if another vig was going to do it? If it weren't for this post, I'd be a bit more hesitant. ##Vote: LSB If he's red, LA is red, Barundar is green, and there's a huge paper trail left to re-analyze. Honestly sounds like a good lynch. Show nested quote + On March 05 2011 08:14 GMarshal wrote: then why the hell didn't you shoot me last night? nice OMGUS by the way I call you out on being the godfather and thus I must be red, I'll offer you a deal though, if you 100% believe me to be red then I'll hang today as long as you agree to hang tomorrow. If you are that sure that I am scum then it should sound like a wonderful deal to you, if you are scum then you'll come up with some brilliant theory why this is a scumplan. My only condition is if you want to take me up on this the entire town has to agree to hang you tomorrow Are we still at the point where we can afford to use lynches like this? Bad post? Again to be fair, the situation was messy. Still another wrong vote... On March 07 2011 14:24 ohN wrote: Lol I'm lurking so hardcore this game. =P Show nested quote + On March 07 2011 12:24 LSB wrote: Voting analysis Right now I'm concerned about setting up for lylo. I'd rather not have lylo be filled with people who don't care, so lets take a look at the inactives/scummy players right now. kevconsim/gryffindor/ohN Lets look at how they voted What it means to be on the wrong sides of a lynch + Show Spoiler + (day 1)= This means the person did not vote for Annul Day 1 (day 2)= The person did not vote for Seraph Day 3 (day 3)= The person did not vote for Chaoser Day 4 (unvoted)= bandwagoned a wrong side of the lynch Please note, although posting record is normally unreliable, it is an effective tool to root out lurking mafia. gryffindor- (unvoted day 1) (day 4) kevconsim- (unvoted day 3) (unvoted day 4) ohN- (day 1) (day 3) (day 4) Check this out, ohN was on the wrong side of the lynchs for all three days evaluated. In addition, he's been lurking a lot. Lurking mafia caught? Uh, me not voting annul day1? There was a semi-strong case against him but honestly, I'm not sure anybody really expected him to turn out to be red until he openly admitted it before he died. I voted for gryff for his erratic posting behavior. Me not voting seraph is completely my fault for being inactive. Not voting chaoser? I still don't understand wtf happened. Like LSB looked so scummy and then like turned the tables so hard and chaoser turned out to be red, it was like magic. Oh yeah, and I didn't hop on the icemac wagon. He didn't look scummy at all. I seriously thought LSB looked scummy as hell but now, I have just have no f-ing idea. Maybe I'm just too noob for this game. Pulls the noob card finally when under pressure. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 08 2011 00:46 GMT
#2019
##Unvote ##Vote Gryffindor | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 08 2011 10:33 GMT
#2046
3/2/11 02:24 + Show Spoiler + Original Message From gryffindor: you know what's both interesting and cool? JBright and Seraph were both on icemac, but not annul, and they are two of the leading wagons. JBright's vote on me is so pitiful, but I don't feel like OMGUSing again Show nested quote + Original Message From deconduo: Signs you need a break: + Show Spoiler + Original Message From gryffindor: Already on top of it! To: Coagulation [ Profile | Buddy | Report ] Subject: mafi Date: 3/1/11 21:23 why are you voting JBright with a nearly RVS-style post on d3? Can you not make a case? Like, are you completely incapable of giving proper reasoning? Original Message From deconduo: On a different note, Coag has 110 posts in the game, all but ~3 of them are one liners. I know he has a spammy reputation but I'm pretty sure he contributed a lot more in Orgah. Original Message From gryffindor: I am impressed. That was a very good analysis. I don't believe he believes LD is dead. There is no way. LD has been posting today. Why is Foolishness alive still? There are only 2 explanations 1) Mafia feel like Foolishness will be medic protected 2) Foolishness is mafia Otherwise, they would definitely be killing him. He is much more outspoken than this as a townie, and the fact that he is such a "veteran" is indicative he will actually have a role. I also expect you have a role, though I'm not asking you to divulge me. 3/2/11 00:11 + Show Spoiler + Original Message From gryffindor: I thought southern ireland was What do you expect made him shift focus away from LD? Do you feel he was attempting to bus LD.. well, not bus, but create distancing? Show nested quote + Original Message From deconduo: Well its safer to assume the worst until a vig claims. It could also be 2 GF, 3 grunts which would add up right too. That would explain the ambiguity on the godfather numbers. Foolishness had changed his focus to Seraph yesterday over LD. He didn't really explain why but he did ask for a vig shot on seraph and said he would be pushing for a seraph lynch today. Also Ireland is not part of the UK -_- Original Message From gryffindor: I said United Kingdom, didn't I? Also, I expected there to be 5 mafia left. Why do you believe there are 6? 2 days from now, unless we get mafia, will definitely be LYLO. I said that in the thread already, but that was assuming FIVE, not six. If there are 6 left, with all the kp/mechanics, I am sort of disappointed in the balance. You definitely have played with me a few times, and you are underrating yourself, because you should be much more confident in your ability. Sometimes, simply not being lynched as town is better than being a great scumhunter. Look at me, I'm very good at catching scum, but I have a hard time convincing people that I am correct. I also get lynched a lot, regardless of my alignment, because my playstyle is very inefficient compared to the logical and non-gut style that is used by people who are considered "good" in terms of convincing people of things. I could use weighted language in the style of L to convince people, but I am not going to change myself. I have done it in the past, and I really didn't enjoy it, as me pushing lynches in a mini mafia here lead to a few greens dying. Therefore, even if I consider GMarshal scum, for instance, I'm not going to be pushing him. Why? Because it's pointless whether or not he is scum if I can't convince a bandwagon to form around him. Speaking of bandwagons, I wouldn't be surprised if LD/JBright/Seraph were all town. Speaking of their alignments, why do you believe Foolishness is now voting for Seraph, when he made a big case on LD yesterday, with only a minor FoS on Seraph? Original Message From deconduo: Really? I always feel out of the loop and a bit lost as town. In fact I've been trying to play a bit more confident and more aggressive than normal. Strange that it seems to have had the opposite effect. What games did I seem less out of it in? I wouldn't be surprised if I was mafia in all of them. I'm flattered that you think I'm a good scumhunter but I'm really not I would consider myself a good townie but a bad scumhunter if that makes sense. I've never been lynched as town. I'm usually good at drawing hits and I get killed pretty early on by mafia. But I've also never 'caught' a mafia as it were. If I have a list of 6-7 FoSes usually at most one is mafia. (I know this because whenever I die I play a little game with myself when I ask host for the role list. Most I've gotten right is 2 ) Even with annul I probably would have unvoted him near the end if I wasn't asleep at the time. I was kinda surprised that he was mafia tbh. As regards the Foolishness thing, what's holding me back somewhat is that I kinda agree with him about Lunar. While I wouldn't have FoSd him initially his response to Foolishness has been less than stellar. I've been considering keeping this quiet for now and simply helping push the lynch on LD. If he flips red then I really doubt Foolishness, as mafia, tried to divert the bandwagon from LSB to LD. If LD flips town then I will definitely pushing them. However, I have a problem here too. If there was no vig shot last night then we could be at mylo: 3.5 KP : 1 GF, 5 grunts 13 - 6 now 13 - 5 lynch 1, 3 KP left 10 - 5 3 KP used 10 - 4 lynch 1, 2.5 KP left 7 - 4 2.5 KP used 7 - 3 lynch 1, 2 KP left 5 - 3 2 KP used 5 - 2 lynch 1, 1.5 KP left 3 - 2 1.5 KP used 3 - 1 lynch 1, 1 KP left 2 - 1 1 KP used -> lylo. There are a couple of assumptions in there that could be wrong, and it doesn't take into account vigs, bombers, medic saves, vet hits etc. Even still if we don't hit mafia today it could be really bad. Sorry for the big wall of stuff. I just needed someone to unload my thoughts onto and you were the most convenient I still haven't forgiven you for calling me English though. Original Message From gryffindor: Now that FIRST one is interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the godfather. Can we afford to lose a player like you, me, LSB or Foolishness if they are town, though? I mean, we could afford to, but it's not advisable. We need the active players who are good scumhunters around. BTW, I don't mean for you to take this the wrong way, but you seem really out of it in comparison to games I've played with you in the past. I definitely would have an excuse for that, if the same was said for me, but I actually feel my play has been rather calm, composed, and collected in comparison to my normal play... regardless of what is going on in my life. So, basically, what I want you to answer is this: Why do you feel so out of the loop? Original Message From deconduo: And this was the first one: Original Message From Foolishness: Can you give me an explanation of what happened between you and gryffindor in PM land? I know I'm probably making you angry for having to explain again, but if he messed up really bad I can help gather support for you in the thread. Or anyone else you might want to lynch. 3/1/11 19:44 + Show Spoiler + Original Message From gryffindor: I would find that suspicious as fuck, especially if it was from an experienced player, like Foolishness. Show nested quote + Original Message From deconduo: I know this might sound strange but hear me out. Suppose someone sent you a PM saying that they could 'help you get xxxx, or anyone else you want lynched' In addition, a short time later they tell you to lay off on LSB, saying if he's scum he will slip up later. 'Just ignore him' Finally, if you knew they told Barundar to do the same thing (ignore LSB). Would that be really really suspicious? Or am I reading too much into it. I really don't think he's mafia | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 08 2011 23:35 GMT
#2078
On March 08 2011 20:42 gryffindor wrote: why were you voting me, then? i'm going back to bed... I had my alarm set around 4am Coag told me to. However I realise just because he is clear doesn't make him right. Unvote ##Vote: oHn | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 09 2011 00:16 GMT
#2087
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=191888¤tpage=101#2013 | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 09 2011 00:22 GMT
#2090
On March 09 2011 09:18 gryffindor wrote: also, i noticed ohN was on LD whenever LD was at 6 and the alternate wagon. I doubt ohN and LD are mafia together. Show nested quote + On March 08 2011 09:58 ohN wrote: Seems to be a pretty strong case against gryff. ##Vote: gryffindor Sheeping LSB right here. If this was LYLO, I wouldn't blame him, but it's not. He is not using his head. @Deconduo, you listed Gmarshal and chaoser in your "possible factions" - what for? Annul accused them both at the start | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 09 2011 00:24 GMT
#2092
On March 09 2011 09:23 gryffindor wrote: Oh, the post I was insanely suspicious about, and have been talking about for 2 weeks? like, where I said, oh, guys, I have this guaranteed scumtell... we have 2 scum caught here? I'm glad SOMEONE noticed that. Well grouped them together in a couple of posts iirc, but yeah. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 09 2011 00:24 GMT
#2093
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 09 2011 22:46 GMT
#2223
Ok the way I see it is as follows: Pretty much confirmed town Coagulation LSB Jackal58 Probably town Ser Aspi CubEdIn The rest deconduo GMarshal kevconsim LunarDestiny why Assuming 3 maf and no saves/vet tonight we are at lylo tomorrow. I feel our best bet is to lynch either LD or kev, and I'm leaning towards LD. Gryff thought that kev was just really bad as opposed to scum, and I do trust his judgement somewhat. Of the rest; I know I'm town and I don't have a good enough read on why or GMarshal to want to risk killing them. I would still lynch kev ahead of either of them. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 10 2011 22:17 GMT
#2260
Reasons explained yesterday, he's the best lynch at this point. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 10 2011 23:32 GMT
#2264
On March 11 2011 08:19 LSB wrote: Show nested quote + On March 11 2011 07:17 deconduo wrote: ##Vote: LunarDestiny Reasons explained yesterday, he's the best lynch at this point. Yes, but do you think he is the godfather? If we had to lynch the godfather today I would lynch GMarshal or Cubed. However, I think Lunar is the safest bet at the moment given that its lylo. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 10 2011 23:36 GMT
#2265
Lynch grunt: 5-2 3-2 3-1 2-1 Lynch GF: 5-2 4-2 - Mylo anyway and we can't no-lynch 4-1 3-1 - Still mylo Essentially I don't think dropping the KP helps much. Safer to lynch an almost sure thing imo. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 12 2011 19:08 GMT
#2316
From Jackal: LD i just don't get. Why did he just quit? Did I miss a post of his? If he is just going to come in and vote himself it doesn't really matter if he's scum or not. He might as well die today. Kev has bothered me from the beginning. I can't put a real finger on it. Ser Apsi told me he was blue fishing mighty hard. He's also all about OMGUS without saying much of anything else. I still have a feeling GM is town. A very manipulated townie. If he scum he's played one of the most gruesome games ever. I think right now I'd be most comfortable with LD today and Cubed for tomorrows lynch. LD is useless and Cubed is more likely gf than kev. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 13 2011 01:33 GMT
#2327
Well played. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 13 2011 22:23 GMT
#2373
On March 14 2011 07:14 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Sorry, just got back from work. I will take a shower then post the day post if Meapak hasn't already. F5F5F5 Anyone else notice this: On March 13 2011 11:22 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: CubEdIn The Mafia Goon has been lynched. I don't think kev is the last mafia, I really doubt he's the godfather. Unless I missed something. I'm pretty certain it has to be why. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 13 2011 23:00 GMT
#2380
No way mafia picked kev as godfather. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 13 2011 23:02 GMT
#2381
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 13 2011 23:06 GMT
#2384
On March 14 2011 08:03 GMarshal wrote: I agree, however I am not scum and if you aren't then you just handed kev the game Also decon you would make a fine godfather, and why did say he thought you were scum However I don't want to vote yet in case kev is the gf and immediately jumps on the wagon, ending the day with a majority lynch -If you were mafia would you pick some new player as godfather? -Where did why say I was scum? -Good point, I'll unvote. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 13 2011 23:06 GMT
#2385
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 13 2011 23:19 GMT
#2390
Original Message From Jackal58: Yo. Other than LSB you're about the only one left I'm sure is town. On that note questions for you. Do you really think GMarshall is scum? I think he defended Chaoser too damn hard and too long. But you've played this more than I have. Between keviconsim and CubEdin who do you think is most likely to be the 3rd scum left? Reading your last posts in the thread you seem to be leaning towards LD, GMarshall and Cubed. Do I have this right and am I completely off base with kevi? | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 13 2011 23:40 GMT
#2394
On March 14 2011 08:30 GMarshal wrote: Alright decon I'm done reading over your posts, my gut says Not Guilty but I need to read over kevconisms too and think about it some more, damn I *hate* lylo. That was fast considering I have about 150 posts This is how I see it right now: GMarshal -Has defended every single mafia apart from cubed (I think) -Hasn't been on a right bandwagon until LD (which was a sure thing anyway) -Bussed by annul along with chaoser. This was pointed out by gryff on day 1. -Would mafia, especially godfather be that obvious? kev -Hasn't made a single useful post all game. All he has done is latched onto whatever bandwagon of the day was. -Highly unlikely candidate for godfather imo. Time for sleep for me now, I'll be back tomorrow evening. In the meanwhile I'd appreciate it if you guys wrote up a case against me or just your opinion on me. Also a defence on why you aren't mafia. I'll do the same tomorrow. Especially kev, if you are town and want to win, start posting. Just because I FOS GMarshal more right now doesn't give you permission to continue lurking like you've done all game. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 21:19 GMT
#2419
kev voting for me because 'Jackal told me to do it' No other reason, just 2 PMs pulled from thin air saying I'm mafia. Right. GMarshal voting for me over some messed up, totally wrong WIFOM thing over who was killed last night. You even admit I've done nothing scummy! You think I'm so good I went the whole game as maf without a single mistake? | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 21:38 GMT
#2422
On March 14 2011 09:12 kevconsim wrote: private messages from why to me Jackal has assured me that you are town. The remaining mafia are almost certainly deconduo and CubedIn. CubedIn today and Deconduo tomorrow. Wrong I am going to keep posting about how I think you are mafia in thread so that hopefully the endgame will be me, you, and deconduo. The other possibility is scarier = me, GMarshal, and deconduo. We need to know where GMarshal stands today. I'll PM him but I don't think he responded much to Jackal even. It might be worth going after deconduo today just so Cubed is the definite lynch on the final day. Wrong and didn't happen No...but I have said multiple times in thread that I think you are. Therefore mafia will likely expect me to vote for you tomorrow so they'll let me live since you are actually town. Obvious PM editing here, why do this? Also wrong. Deconduo is the last scum and we will lynch him tomorrow. k, except you died. It doesn't matter at this point. GMarshal is pretty much on board, as long as deconduo is scum we win. On March 14 2011 09:15 kevconsim wrote: my private messages with jackal58 You sir are keeping me alive. Don't make me push you. I don't want anybody to start voting for you. Especially our scum team. That team is - CubEdin LD deconduo. Dunno which is gf. Don't get all up in arms about me fosing you. It's keeping you alive too. I'm really hoping that either you or Why are a vet. If you are please claim so we can get a hit directed towards you. Dude you are going to be called everything under the sun for the next 2 days.Really, where did this happen? Don't take it personally. You are the key to town winning. Defend yourself but don't get angry. We have this won. But to win it you need to be the center of attention. Wrong, never happened You will not be lynched. Cubed is next up for that. But you are going to be called scum. Cubed is going to be the assumed GF. Right, except that only Jackal called you scum. LD is about to go down. Decon has let this happen because he believes I think you are scum. Wrong, in fact I tried to tell Jackal you were town, not the other way around. Cubed has rolled over in the thread already. Decon has told his scum team that I am convinced Decon is town and that you are scum. LOL He believes this because that's what I told him I believe. So basically all wrong as well. Don't take the next 24 hours personally. Don't believe anything I post in the thread. All of my posts from here on out are for scum consumption only. If you have issues or questions keep them in PMs Except none of this even happened If decon or cubed pm you with questions please forward them to me before answering. I have a multitude of lies sitting in their in boxes. Please don't hang me out to dry. So, assuming these PMs aren't faked you are forgetting the biggest flaw. Jackal is a bad townie. Look at ANY of his games, if someone FoSes him, or calls a post of his scummy he just OMGUSes them and tunnels them for the rest of the game. He doesn't give up until one or the other is killed. Oh, and guess what? The person he tunnels has ALWAYS been town (as far as I can remember, he might have been right once but I'm checking up on it). I thought he had improved after but apparently not, he just changed from tunnelling in the thread to doing it in PMs. Look at this game even, with what happened with gryffindor. That is 100% stereotypical Jackal. If you are town you are just continuing to do what you've done all game, sheep sheep sheep and not have a single thought for yourself. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 21:43 GMT
#2423
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 21:47 GMT
#2425
On March 14 2011 22:34 GMarshal wrote: Alright, decon you know I was leaning towards you not being scum, and then I saw the kill pattern, noticeably the fact that I survived the night. So let me analyze this from a killer's perspective shall I? Lets assume I'm kevoconism and I am the scum GF, now I'm looking at who is left as a viable target and its Why Decon GMarshal now as kev I have this wonderful PM from why sitting in my inbox saying that if I survive the night I'm going to hang decon, and I have nothing from GMarshal except suspicions from earlier in the thread. Why in the 9 hells of bator would I choose to hit why, who THINKS I'M TOWN? that kill makes absolutely no sense from that perspective, instead I would hit GMarshal and have the game in the bag... but notice how I the gullible one survived the night He edited that PM, it could have said something quite different. Why could have changed his mind and he just didn't post that PM. Maybe Cubed told him to kill why. Any number of reasons. Lets look at it from a deconduo perspective shall we? I am decon the mafia GF and I'm looking at my targets for the night: Why Kevconism GMarshal Now, I could go after GMarshal who I know to be both gullible AND scummy looking, an easy lynch is I can persuade kev, which should not be a challenge. So why would I kill him? Kev would be an ok target but then I have to convince GMarshal that why is scum or why that GM is scum and why has said that GM is probably town, now that would be a challenge, considering why is a pretty decent player who might make good arguments against me. Or I could take out why, who is clearly the best player from those who are still left alive, as insurance I'll even use .5 kp to reverse him first. Then its a simple task of convincing kev that GM is scum because he has defended scum all game long. I would put you as a MUCH better player than why. Why's play this game has been atrocious, especially if the PMs are legit and he bought into Jackal's idiocy. That was a mistake, you should have hit kev, I was more than willing to believe why as a scum player, however I didn't post it to avoid him targeting me at night If I was mafia I would have 100% hit kev the moment I saw Cubed wasn't GF. For completness sake lets consider it from GMarshal's view point as well. Lets say I am the GF and I'm looking at possible targets for tonight Why Decon kevconism I could go after why who has already told me that he thinks Decon is the GF but that would be eliminating a very useful ally. I could also take out Decon who is my likely lynchee for tomorrow but that would be moronic, or I could take out kevconism who is a useless player who's vote I'm unsure of. There the logical move would be to eradicate kev and count on why following through with his plan. So logically the only person who would kill why at this point in the endgame is you deconduo Which means you are deconduo the Mafia Godfather | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 21:54 GMT
#2427
On March 15 2011 06:44 GMarshal wrote: You are right, my defense of chaoser was a sheep move as well as me being the only guy defending icemac, yep I'm a sheep. Assume I am sheeping then. Its irrelevant, i've already proven that my judgment is suspect. every single independent decision I've made this game has sucked, I chose to trust the wrong people, I defended and sided with scum on every occasion. I've proven that I have to leave the big guns to analyze while I limit myself to what I'm good at. That post, including the sheeping comment, was directed at kev. Sorry if I was ambiguous. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 22:04 GMT
#2429
On March 15 2011 06:49 GMarshal wrote: You call it WIFOM, i call it logic combined with past behavior. Looking at your posts you never actually really weigh in definitively on anything, your only contribution is the thing about DTs in day one and it proved to be absolutely worthless, I think you played a magnificent game of lurking, staying in the shadows and avoiding being called out for it. Satisfy my curiosity, what role are you? Well lets see: Apart from voting LSB over seraph, I've been on EVERY SINGLE MAFIA. And to be fair, LSB was scummy as fuck anyway, who knew he was actually just a terrible townie. You are saying I bussed my entire team? I have no idea how you think I haven't been definitive. I thought I've been about as definitive as possible. I called out anything I thought was scummy, gave opinions on as much as I could. I have over a hundred relevent posts in the thread so I don't know what lurking is. What has kev done if I lurked? I'm a townie, thought that was pretty obvious at this point. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 22:20 GMT
#2434
On March 15 2011 06:55 GMarshal wrote: I like how you don't care who changes their vote as long as someone does, pretty revealing. No, its because I don't know which of you is the mafia... Kev is mafia, you don't unvote - We lose You are mafia, kev doesn't unvote - We lose If whichever one of you is town unvotes, at the very least I can crossvote the mafia. So yeah, I do care which of you changes their votes, I just don't know who it is. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 22:25 GMT
#2437
What are the timestamps on the 2 PMs you posted, and can you paste them in full please. To do this, open the PM, click reply and copy/paste the entire text. Do it NOW so you don't have time to edit them, thanks. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 22:44 GMT
#2454
On March 15 2011 07:40 GMarshal wrote: Show nested quote + On March 15 2011 07:37 kevconsim wrote: i will never play another mafia game again. Your choice and that is a modkillable offense IIRC, hopefully you'll only get a warning damnit, bad kev, don't you recognize a gambit when you see it? decon wants to vote with me so bad he is probably salivating, he is just waiting to make a decent post where he justifies it, and then bam, I have him in the bag, I coudn't just tell you on the off chance you were scum *fumes* ##unvote ##Vote deconduo Except, I still think you are the mafia, not kev. But it seems I have no choice anyway. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 14 2011 23:24 GMT
#2455
On March 15 2011 07:11 GMarshal wrote: Alright, I was hoping for a blue claim at this point, it would have been pretty revealing. And btw annul was definetly a bus with 3/10 scum on the wagon, as a matter of fact there was no lynch with less than two scum on the wagon as far as I can tell so I have to say that scum had a pretty bussy policy this game. (and hell it might even still pay off) So yeah I would have no difficulty believing that you bussed, well pretty much anyone, also your "I'm torn" vote with chaoser was pretty interesting, almost as if you knew what he was going to flip and jumped ship ahead of time Vote:GMarshal The case against me: He's so pro-town he must be mafia. The case for GMarshal: He's been so scummy he must be town. I'm sad that I'm going to lose my streak of never being lynched as town. All because I told Jackal that his logic was fucked up and he carried the grudge all the way through the game. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 15 2011 00:31 GMT
#2456
I can't argue with a dead man, and even though he was wrong on everything else he's somehow right about me? Yeah. Goodnight, I doubt I will wake up to a town victory but one can always hope. | ||
deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 15 2011 00:37 GMT
#2457
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deconduo
Ireland4122 Posts
March 15 2011 10:35 GMT
#2562
I think the thing that completely fucked us was the extra KP thing. It cleared LSB and Jackal giving town a huge circle which dominated the rest of the game. Annul getting lynched day 1 didn't help, I was really pissed off at him for that | ||
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