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A question I want to pose to the hosts though.
You have the power of Census. Every night, you have the ability to determine the number of any alignment or role in the game. For instance, you can check the number of mafia total, OR the number of godfathers, OR the number of roleblockers in the game. The valid alignments are Town (returns the number of vanilla townies), Special Town, Mafia, and Serial Killer. All roles listed here can be counted. For the purposes of census, bodyguards, the mayor, and godfathers count as their original alignments and roles.
When this power is used during the night phase does it give you the Census before or after the kills are calculated? For example lets say there are 10 townies during the night phase and the mafia hits 3 of them meaning that by day there would be 7. If I censused townies would I 7 or 10? This is assuming the census is returned with the day post and NOT immediately.
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On January 25 2011 18:47 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:A question I want to pose to the hosts though. Show nested quote +
You have the power of Census. Every night, you have the ability to determine the number of any alignment or role in the game. For instance, you can check the number of mafia total, OR the number of godfathers, OR the number of roleblockers in the game. The valid alignments are Town (returns the number of vanilla townies), Special Town, Mafia, and Serial Killer. All roles listed here can be counted. For the purposes of census, bodyguards, the mayor, and godfathers count as their original alignments and roles.
When this power is used during the night phase does it give you the Census before or after the kills are calculated? For example lets say there are 10 townies during the night phase and the mafia hits 3 of them meaning that by day there would be 7. If I censused townies would I 7 or 10? This is assuming the census is returned with the day post and NOT immediately.
On January 24 2011 08:49 Node wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 07:16 SiNiquity wrote:
Mod question: For the purposes of census, is the tally done before or after night actions take place? The census tally is taken after all other night actions have been resolved.Show nested quote +On January 24 2011 07:27 Kavdragon wrote:
Will there be a clue pointing to mafia in the first day post?
Yes. The rule of thumb is that for each person that dies, one clue is left. Of course, there is no guarantee that this will always be the case.
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On January 25 2011 13:39 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:I don't believe in a mayor centered town obviously. That is stupid. I am going to try to encourage everyone to contribute and analyze because that is the only way we are going to win this game. We need to make people talk and make them slip up if they are not town aligned. The only reason I want to be mayor is so I have a longer period of time where I can try and make people contribute and attempt to be a voice of reason. So Amber, how are things? I find it interesting that you quick response my prod when I know you do 4 day work weeks at home and somehow don't really contribute much besides responding to that  Anyway, I am going to girlfriends for a few hours. When I get back you will all get more.
Everything else I posted has been ignored yet that response gets a trigger. I think you need to re-read the thread if you want to become mayor...
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Perhaps this is a stupid question to ask, but why does the mayor need to be the one with the plan? He's already been given the power of census, and the protection of the bodyguards, why give him the reigns as well?
The biggest reason I can think of is that the mayor is given protection, so you want an active and helpful townie. But that doesn't mean that they have to become some god who's word is law or anything. The power of who is lynched, what the town plans are, and all of that should be in the town's hands. If the mayor doesn't have good enough , or isn't vocal enough, then why listen to him?
Like RoL said, don't put all your hope in one person. Don't let one person decide what's going to happen. This discourages activity, and makes it easy for the mistakes of one person to decide the game. Everyone should be vocal in what they think should be done. No one should rely on another person to make their decisions for them.
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On January 25 2011 23:35 Kavdragon wrote:
Perhaps this is a stupid question to ask, but why does the mayor need to be the one with the plan? He's already been given the power of census, and the protection of the bodyguards, why give him the reigns as well?
The biggest reason I can think of is that the mayor is given protection, so you want an active and helpful townie. But that doesn't mean that they have to become some god who's word is law or anything. The power of who is lynched, what the town plans are, and all of that should be in the town's hands. If the mayor doesn't have good enough , or isn't vocal enough, then why listen to him?
Like RoL said, don't put all your hope in one person. Don't let one person decide what's going to happen. This discourages activity, and makes it easy for the mistakes of one person to decide the game. Everyone should be vocal in what they think should be done. No one should rely on another person to make their decisions for them.
Well, the mayor gets the most information out of all the town aligned players and therefore any plan relies on having that census information which only the mayor has access to. Also he is the only known player with a specific role. Of course by default, the mayor needs to be align checked right away to make sure we aren't getting mis-information. If the mayor is a townie though, then he is arguably the most powerful townie.
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On January 26 2011 01:24 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:35 Kavdragon wrote:
Perhaps this is a stupid question to ask, but why does the mayor need to be the one with the plan? He's already been given the power of census, and the protection of the bodyguards, why give him the reigns as well?
The biggest reason I can think of is that the mayor is given protection, so you want an active and helpful townie. But that doesn't mean that they have to become some god who's word is law or anything. The power of who is lynched, what the town plans are, and all of that should be in the town's hands. If the mayor doesn't have good enough , or isn't vocal enough, then why listen to him?
Like RoL said, don't put all your hope in one person. Don't let one person decide what's going to happen. This discourages activity, and makes it easy for the mistakes of one person to decide the game. Everyone should be vocal in what they think should be done. No one should rely on another person to make their decisions for them. Well, the mayor gets the most information out of all the town aligned players and therefore any plan relies on having that census information which only the mayor has access to. Also he is the only known player with a specific role. Of course by default, the mayor needs to be align checked right away to make sure we aren't getting mis-information. If the mayor is a townie though, then he is arguably the most powerful townie.
I am pretty sure an alignment check doesn't work on the mayor. DT checks show up as him being mayor only.
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Amber[LighT], d3_crescentia, TheAldo, Divinek, Nfi still needs to vote
Mayor candidates, please start thinking about who you will use the Day 1 lynch on, and PM LSB and Node the name before the day is over
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On January 26 2011 01:24 darmousseh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 23:35 Kavdragon wrote:
Perhaps this is a stupid question to ask, but why does the mayor need to be the one with the plan? He's already been given the power of census, and the protection of the bodyguards, why give him the reigns as well?
The biggest reason I can think of is that the mayor is given protection, so you want an active and helpful townie. But that doesn't mean that they have to become some god who's word is law or anything. The power of who is lynched, what the town plans are, and all of that should be in the town's hands. If the mayor doesn't have good enough , or isn't vocal enough, then why listen to him?
Like RoL said, don't put all your hope in one person. Don't let one person decide what's going to happen. This discourages activity, and makes it easy for the mistakes of one person to decide the game. Everyone should be vocal in what they think should be done. No one should rely on another person to make their decisions for them. Well, the mayor gets the most information out of all the town aligned players and therefore any plan relies on having that census information which only the mayor has access to. Also he is the only known player with a specific role. Of course by default, the mayor needs to be align checked right away to make sure we aren't getting mis-information. If the mayor is a townie though, then he is arguably the most powerful townie.
The mayor cannot be role checked, that's why we have to be careful of who we elect. The mayor will only get more information if he is censusing something other than mafia. If he's checking only mafia, then that information will be spread to the town, and he will not have any more information than anyone else.
The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to check the mafia count every night. But this can be discussed in the days to come, because I think everyone agrees that Mafia number should be the night 1 check, so that gives us till night 2 to decide.
Given that the day one clues point to "killers" including the vigilante, We have to consider the possibility of OriginalName being a vig. My post analysis would say that he is not, but I'm not positive what ON's behavior would be like if he were.
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EBWDP:
That being said, I'm still planing on lynching ON, as I think that he is the best lead we have, and he's lurking.
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On January 26 2011 02:54 Amber[LighT] wrote:##Vote DoctorHelvetica
hmmm? You know he's not playing right? Is this an invalid vote?
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On January 25 2011 02:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 01:39 darmousseh wrote:
Who should be volunteering as bodyguards? Those with blue abilities or just normal townies? Lol I don't think volunteering bodyguards based upon roles is a smart idea... IMO there is no real formula or requirement for who should be bodyguards. I think the idea of picking people and saying "well we need to protect these guys now" is bad as it's isolating the other 20+ people who could potentially be targets, because lets face it, mafia isn't going to stack kills to get at the mayor in the first 2 nights. Aside from the easy time it will be for townies to analyze players who discount the importance of bodyguards and the mayors role if the above plan was proposed, we are creating a narrow window of playstyle from the town that will end up costing us more hits at night than we want. IE- Risk is not worth the reward in this scenario. The mayoral candidates should also not consider the bodyguards as throwaway individuals. The candidates need to get their thinking caps on and pick players who are "almost targets." These would be the players that mafia _could_ target on night one. This could be because of posting habits. It could be because of personal "hatred" towards other players. It could be because killing these people will incite blame in someone else. You also have to think about the clues. Everyone's profile is full of information, so certain kills could be skewed towards a certain player. Players who could be implicated on some "rough around the edges clues" are going to stay around longer. They might be good bodyguard targets. How will the candidates decide this? Take a few minutes to look at the profiles of EVERY player and see what connections can be made. If you can find similarities in profile content between a few players then you should note it and possibly use them as your bodyguards. Then again I don't know how mafia is going to treat the breadcrumb trail of clues so this could just be speculation. This type of discussion should be reserved until day 2, but if I was running I would consider picking people who would be less likely night 1 targets (for example: RoL shouldn't pick DrH and vice-versa).
The bolded parts are a seeming contradiction, but the rest of it simply doesn't make sense. I'd be interested in what your opinions are on these topics, but I can't understand what you are trying to say. Your plan seems like a way of clumping the mafia's targets into a small group of people to get them all killed easily...
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On January 26 2011 03:01 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2011 02:54 Amber[LighT] wrote:On January 24 2011 12:29 Amber[LighT] wrote:
wow t.t
##Vote DrHelvetica ##Vote DoctorHelvetica hmmm? You know he's not playing right? Is this an invalid vote?
Amber, you are clearly on top of your shit this game -.-
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If they were "almost" targets wouldn't making them BGs just give them the push to make them "targets"? The last thing we want is for the BGs to be killed night one. That's why picking lurkers is a good idea if we aren't going to have volunteers. As I said before, it forces the mafia into a decision of killing strong or active players versus killing the mayor. I agree Kav, it seems like Amber's strategy merely clumps mafia targets and makes it easier to kill people who matter.
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On January 26 2011 03:02 Kavdragon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2011 02:15 Amber[LighT] wrote:On January 25 2011 01:39 darmousseh wrote:
Who should be volunteering as bodyguards? Those with blue abilities or just normal townies? Lol I don't think volunteering bodyguards based upon roles is a smart idea... IMO there is no real formula or requirement for who should be bodyguards. I think the idea of picking people and saying "well we need to protect these guys now" is bad as it's isolating the other 20+ people who could potentially be targets, because lets face it, mafia isn't going to stack kills to get at the mayor in the first 2 nights. Aside from the easy time it will be for townies to analyze players who discount the importance of bodyguards and the mayors role if the above plan was proposed, we are creating a narrow window of playstyle from the town that will end up costing us more hits at night than we want. IE- Risk is not worth the reward in this scenario. The mayoral candidates should also not consider the bodyguards as throwaway individuals. The candidates need to get their thinking caps on and pick players who are "almost targets." These would be the players that mafia _could_ target on night one. This could be because of posting habits. It could be because of personal "hatred" towards other players. It could be because killing these people will incite blame in someone else. You also have to think about the clues. Everyone's profile is full of information, so certain kills could be skewed towards a certain player. Players who could be implicated on some "rough around the edges clues" are going to stay around longer. They might be good bodyguard targets. How will the candidates decide this? Take a few minutes to look at the profiles of EVERY player and see what connections can be made. If you can find similarities in profile content between a few players then you should note it and possibly use them as your bodyguards. Then again I don't know how mafia is going to treat the breadcrumb trail of clues so this could just be speculation. This type of discussion should be reserved until day 2, but if I was running I would consider picking people who would be less likely night 1 targets (for example: RoL shouldn't pick DrH and vice-versa). The bolded parts are a seeming contradiction, but the rest of it simply doesn't make sense. I'd be interested in what your opinions are on these topics, but I can't understand what you are trying to say. Your plan seems like a way of clumping the mafia's targets into a small group of people to get them all killed easily...
I'm pretty sure his overarching point is "figure out who the mafia would conceivably target night one, then don't pick them as bodyguards." Which still doesn't make any sense, because making someone a bodyguard is painting a huge fucking target above their head.
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the vote should have transferred to the replacement t.t
i dont want RoL or Kav so I'm not voting for either.
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Can a bodyguard be modkilled? If so, will there be any replacement?
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On January 26 2011 03:40 Kavdragon wrote:
Can a bodyguard be modkilled? If so, will there be any replacement?
Yes, yes.
Modkilles just means you are removed from the game and banned. We will (hopefully) find a replacement, the replacement will become a bodyguard.
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Okay I'm back.
So, it seems like Kav is gonna be our mayor.
We're running out of time, so please state how BGs will be picked so we can come in with ideas while we still can.
And as for census, sure, you do what you want, or what town wants, it doesn't really matter. But it makes most sense to go:
- total mafia -> tell town
- total SK -> tell town
- total blues -> don't tell town (town doesn't need to know, unless you risk dying or something, but Mafia might benefit a lot from this piece of information)
- then count doctors/dts/vigs/etc. (just in case someone checks GF, we may be able to flush him out if the blue role he fakes gets too many claims)
- total GF is also ok, but let's see how many mafia there are. I doubt there will be too many GFs anyway
I'd say... if anyone has a DIFFERENT idea, then feel free to share.
My belief is that picking the BGs will have a much greater impact on the game.
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Right now I want to hear what RoL thinks about picking volunteers for BG's.
I don't buy the arguments that people are making about it would "narrowing down the group of people that could be blues, making it that much easier to kill them".
We already have a few volunteers, and I don't think that we would be flooded with them. Plus mafia would doubtless have to dive into a bunch of wifom about whether or not blues volunteered, so I don't think that it gives them any real information on who is blue or not.
If the town votes against this idea, I will follow their decision, but I will argue my point as if i were just another townie none the less.
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Since there's no way I'll be mayor, here is a kind of system I thought of to bring as many scum/sk into the bodyguards picks.
It's not perfect, but I believe it has a good chance (20-30%ish) of hitting a red in the BGs:
Step 1:
RnG 8 people (out of everyone BUT mayor candidates and people who already volunteered as BG), ask them to confirm/veto if they wanna be BG
Step 2:
Tally up the number of vetos, and lurkers, and mayor candidates (not relevant in this case, since it's just 1-2 other ppl).
Step 3:
a) If the number of vetos is high (4 or more), pick 2 BGs from the people who veto-ed. Sure, some might be blues, but not all of them, so there's a high chance a Mafia/SK didn't want BG. If it's a scared townie, then you're not losing much anyway.
b) If the number of vetos is low (<=3), then pick one BG from that and 1 from lurkers. This is the suckiest scenario, but it still has a decent shot of picking a Maifa out of luck. Technically, 8 ppl is about 1/3 of the players if you exclude candidates and ppl who asked for BG role, so there should be roughly 2 mafia in there. At least one.
c) If the number of vetos is 0 (everyone agrees), pick 2 people out of the 8, as mafias would try to blend in, and blues that agreed would be ok (maybe vets or so).
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Of course, this will not work if everyone knows the selection criteria, and it's not even polished. I didn't put too much thought into it as I figured I wouldn't get to use it.
Also, the criteria would've been posted on a different forum or hidden somewhere with a date stamp, so that the town knows you're not just making them up AFTER you know the results of the tally. They would later be revealed to town.
So I know you can't use this (especially since there's no time for people to accept/veto), but maybe I gave you some ideas.
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EPT
