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On September 25 2010 08:49 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Those were awesome posts and I wholeheartedly agree with you pandain, the only thing I don't agree with is you disavowing the link between the two teams. You really do shrug off the weird voting and behavior that kicks off day two by a lot. But like I said earlier I think they are both around equal in guilt I was just wondering if you can try to explain or further iterate why you think they aren't linked?
It just doesn't make sense to me. The main argument that says they are connected is from the big post LSB made, and yet even in that post he got mad at Meeple because he misquoted him. Why would meeple even misquote him in the first place?
I agree it seems out of place, him just suddenly defending meeple(sort of). But I don't see why people think theres definitely a connection, at most there might be one.
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On September 25 2010 07:53 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 19:22 meeple wrote:On September 24 2010 18:50 Incognito wrote:That's all really misleading... I have stated my own thoughts on a number of occasions... if we are mafia, why would we go after a team that has previously had no real suspicions put upon them by anyone else... instead of simply following the crowd and gone after someone with the heat on. There's no reason for me to make enemies, townie or red...
When I get time, and if it isn't done already by my partner YellowInk, I'll get into that more comprehensive analysis of team 6. Simple. You think Team 6 is the most scummy team that isn't you or your scumbuddy. You have every incentive as mafia to go after a new team (Team 6), especially since the other option (Team 1) isn't so palatable from your point of view. Team 6 is pretty inactive, and you're going to have to save yourself somehow, so no reason not to vote Team 6. There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of Team 6. The reasons just arent as good as the reasons for you or Team 1. I'll agree that a lot of Foolishness's "analysis" is sketchy and is a stretch. But there are some good points there. To all those saying Meeple never takes any stands, check out ALL of meeple's posts in TL Mafia XXVII. Not just the first 10 or so. He definitely contributes his thoughts about lynch targets/other characters. Here's a few excerpts: On June 15 2010 11:23 meeple wrote:
I trust Ludwig with almost no doubts... much more than moocow... and I trust them both more than some other people.
There's a slight chance of there being mafia amongst our dts... but like radfield said, its questionable whether this is a good time to start offing claimed blues.
flamewheel's willingness to undergo a check makes me hesitate to push a check on him... but it doesn't put him in the clear obviously. I would try for a redtooth alignment check tonight... or Chez... On June 15 2010 11:33 meeple wrote:
Ludwig has been active... but he's just active at a different time... totally offset from North American time.
I never said you were suspicious... I just said that I trust Ludwig... mostly because if he was mafia there's no way he would've stepped in before. His trusting of L isn't suspicious, tons of people followed L's plan...
His reactions when Chez was shooting people was genuine I felt... he was just confused, as was I, at what the hell was going on.
I have no reason to distrust you, and for sure you're low on the list of suspects... On June 15 2010 02:00 meeple wrote:
I'm down with RoL more than Vivi57... there's little/no case to be made for/against Vivi since he's so inactive. On June 15 2010 02:06 meeple wrote:
Having said that and then going through his posts... RoL is pretty damn inactive too...
I'll have to think more about which one is more deserving On June 13 2010 04:07 meeple wrote:
I don't agree with lynching Chez on the grounds of inactivity though. If I have some time to go through posts I'll come up with more suspects. On June 17 2010 08:26 meeple wrote:
Ludwig is most definitely the roleblocker... that's the only way he can hold up his claims to be a dt...
Also... Radfield is the last mafia I beleive... too many close inexplicable ties with Ludwig then last minute trying to push away.
I trusted Ludwig because I was being impulsive about his defense of me early on and took a risk (and a rather stupid one)... but when I didn't die I thought that it kinda proved that he wasn't red... since who wouldn't take a lovely medic dangled in front of you like that. I didn't really trust Radfield... was kinda forced into it by Ludwig...
Anyways... tommorow's lynch of radfield should clinch the game for us... Meeple states his trust, states who to rolecheck, agrees/disagrees on lynching certain targets, and gives more input on the situation with the last quote. Notice how he consistently doesn't like lynching on inactivity. Notice how that contrasts with this game, where he wants to lynch BC based on uselessness/inactivity... Lastly, On June 16 2010 11:28 meeple wrote:Alright so... first things first... I'm the medic... The mafia knows it by know and so should the town. Obviously I claimed watcher because there was a shitload of greens and it was simply more believable. I had been in PM contact with Ludwig a little and later claimed medic to him since he had defended me in the thread... through him I also had PM contact with Radfield, who also knew me as the medic (through Ludwig... not my decision to tell him) Now... not too long after I claimed to be watcher and had "found" the medic, Foolishness PMs me wondering why I hadn't contacted him yet and claims watcher and tells me (to prove that he's a watcher) that tree.hugger also visited Ludwig last night. Of course, I couldn't have known that, but regardless I was just so fucking elated that we had a medic/watcher pair, since now we can coordinate. Things proceed, now with me thinking I had a solid base with a watcher by my side... until I get a PM from L, asking me if Foolishness is the medic... I respond somewhat vaguely, but give him a strong indication that Foolishness is indeed the medic... knowing that if they went after him I could always protect him. Then L flips Godfather and the shit hits the fan and I knew that L would've told the rest of the reds to go after Foolishness. So tonight we schemed... I protected Foolishness, and he watched himself to see who hit him. AND IT WAS MOTHER FUCKING + Show Spoiler +The same friggin dude that I had supported and backed like a moron... Anyways... we lynch him today and we're down to 1 red... meeple was involved in a blue roles scheme. I know we don't have as complex blue roles this game, but meeple was certainly contributing in the other game. On the other hand, meeple has zero useful contributions this game. And no thoughts on lynch targets either. Except for team 6. That was an awesome game... but taken out of context you can't say that I need to act the same every game. Behavioral analysis can only go so far... I was a power role then, and as such I acted differently from when I'm a townie, as in this game. I haven't taken stands because as far as I'm concerned there's no stands to take... I haven't been really confident yet... although one is starting to develop. You seem to have developed quite the following... when you cast a vote you have a couple buddies that nod along and sheep with you. Are you confident enough in your analysis to say that you should be next when we flip green? Apparently you underestimate or misunderstand behavior analysis. There are plenty of stands to take. The only problem is, you just say "we need to do this" while not doing it. The other stands you probably don't want to take. Notice your partner ditching you here and going off to vote Team 1 again. That's the second switchup from Team 6 to Team 1 in two days. Oh, poor you. Haven't been confident yet. But you're starting to develop it? Well show me, because I don't see it. Whether town or mafia, good mafia players are able to influence people to their point of view. No matter how good an analyst you are, you aren't going to get anywhere if you can't convince anyone. That last question is irrelevant. If you lynched Ace for pegging both of your teams, you'd kill an innocent. Being wrong doesn't say anything about alignment. You should be lynching scummy people, not people who get innocents killed. Of course, getting an innocent killed is definitely grounds for investigation. By all means, I'll encourage people to analyze my votes if you flip green. I just don't think they'll find anything that scummy about me though. Judging by your vote for Team 6 and your lack of hostility against me, I'm going to guess you don't think I'm that scummy. If you're green, you might as well do an analysis on me before you die.
Jesus, you don't give me a lot of time to catch up now do you... calling split votes while I'm taking a nap. Team 6 isn't getting the votes, and yes it's possibly because we haven't done the analysis and pushed it... but at this point they're not in the picture so I'm gonna drop it for now and focus on getting my ass out of the fire.
unvote:
vote: Team 1
The only other team with votes on it other than us...
Well... its not just being wrong... you're actively leading the town down the wrong path... picking out minute details and blowing them into a huge thing when really they're meaningless. You're more of a hazard to the town and too smart of a player for that to be a coincedence. The arguments for my redness are ridiculous... mostly stemming from my lack of stands (A very common theme in my games if you've played with me before... I'm a cautious player and I think either you or Ace have gone after me for that exact reason before when I was town. My use of elipses... which is laughable if you've ever read my posts before...
If we go down... we will flip green and I hope people push for your lynch. It's not a coincidence that you're misinterpreting all my/our actions and twisting them into mafia schemes... You've played several games with me before and by now should know my playstyle well enough not to make these mistakes.
I'll do an analysis of you if I survive...
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Okay, I've got a gut feeling that the reason why LSB laid that initial accusation on team 2 was because of Pyrrhuloxia's posts.
On September 21 2010 04:08 LSB wrote:
That's not a slip up. We are pretty certain that team 2 is mafia. I just want a few more posts from them.
The "we" in this post indicates that to me.
On September 21 2010 09:46 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I honestly don't know why LSB is suspicious of team 2. He said "we" were somehow almost certain that team 2 was mafia so maybe he has another partner I don't know about, given that I posted earlier in the thread to say SR was being SR.
They're obviously not communicating however through PMs because Pyrrhuloxia said this afterwards and so LSB must've misunderstood Pyrr and this is when LSB begins backing off. It seems to me that LSB was just trying to take Pyrr's lead and screwed up. In my personal opinion, this nullifies any arguments that LSB's pressure on team 2 was scummy behaviour. His defenses are also quite unusual for a mafia where he states his mentality at the time as a defense.
Just as an additional example you can see that LSB is taking Pyrr's lead in this game:
On September 24 2010 07:50 LSB wrote:
Um that’s not a defense. That’s a possible explanation. Pyrr explained it quite well
He agrees with his teammate and then refers to his explanation.
Finally although I dislike how they had defended themselves, they use separate methods of defending themselves which is also quite unusual for a mafia. LSB begins by stating misconceptions and Pyrrhuloxia attacks Incognito's reasoning. I find it odd for mafia to be so uncoordinated and I'd like to see our votes placed elsewhere. They have every reason in the world to work together as they're on the same team but you don't see that happening. I've noticed within my own team, there isn't as many PMs going around (maybe it's just to me D: ) and I find it very townie-like for them to post the way they do in relation to each other. In a normal mafia game, mafia wouldn't explicitly work together as they'd put suspicion on their partners but in this game as they're on the same team, that sort of barrier isn't there.
I'm going to see if the same sort of concept applies to team 7 and then choose who to vote from there.
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I haven't had much time to do lengthy analysis and am about to head out the door. Hopefully when I come back tonight I can go more in depth.
My current thoughts are that Pyrr isn't playing in his normal red style (did i say this before? i think i did) and that i'm a fair bit more suspicious of team 7's postings. At this point since Pyrr/LSB ar trying to shovel suspicion back onto myself and my team, they are either townies that feel like we're "out to get them" or mafia trying to evade and throw back attacks as distraction. Skimming the thread i've seen a lot of scrutiny on meeple but not so much on his partner. Guys remember that we should look at all players on a team and not just one - we really can't afford to miss a lynch. Most glaring to me is that yellowink seems to be consistently ignoring questions about himself, as well as making posts that seem to be intentionally vague (for example: saying he's convinced about team 6 being mafia, but not saying why). Unlike teams 1 and 7, team 6 has hardly any analysis on them, so at this point i think it's weird that they're getting votes.
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On September 25 2010 07:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
To start with, I apologize for my insane inactivity this game. Have spent a fair amount of my mornings/afternoons job hunting, then out with friends I haven't seen for months at night. Few peoples birthdays, as well as a family in the hospital leads to me being insanely busy (much more so than I was anticipating). I have managed to garner time and look over the debates on today's lynch and some of the arguments are fairly convincing so I shall trust you guys this once as I won't have the time to go more carefully into things till tomorrow at the earliest. As such to avoid being modkilled.
Vote team 7
Well I suppose I can't disprove this, though if he is mafia it could still be both true and a convenient excuse. At least he has showed up with something.
Obviously no one agrees with me on Team 6 atm except my beloved teammate so I have to
vote Team 7.
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Night 2
The timer beeped again, and some people nervously pushed meeple and YellowInk towards the center of the room.
Everyone put their hands on their ears as the garburator churned meeple and YellowInk to pieces.
Silence again.
Everyone peeked cautiously over the edge of the hole.
Sorry guys...
The ones closer to the hole yelped as they were splashed by a chunky fluid.
Ohh, poor darlings, no matter, moving on now.
The door on the other side of the room opened up to another hallway.
Run along now, your doors are labeled by numbers.
+ Show Spoiler +meeple and YellowInk the townies have been garburated. ![[image loading]](http://www.charlesandhudson.com/archives/garbage-disposal.jpg)
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@Pandain
He says:
Doesn't contribute, a clear "I repeat what someone says." Also tries to negate a plan by saying no one will follow it, which is one of the worst arguments someone can make as that can be applied to anything.
Foolishness had a swell summary of the reasons why no lynch was good. Rather than copy and paste that, I referred people to it in case they were skimming and caught my posts and not Foolishness's. His logic had persuaded me and I didn't have anything to add - maybe I would have came up with it if he hadn't first, I dunno. Why does it matter?
You say that it was a bad argument to say no one will follow it. Well, who ended up placing votes on who the medics should protect? No one. It makes more sense to just suggest. It's true that a list might produce some sort of deterrence but no one even ended up casting votes for a medic list, and even if we had the medic is under no obligation to agree with it. I don't think the person who proposed the list even casted any sort of formal vote for this medic straw poll.
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As for the post about Bill Murray I don't really have anything to add if you don't like my explanation. He spent the game trying to get me killed and going against the no lynch plan and he was anti-town on both counts. In any case he didn't strike me as mafia when he started posting so I didn't vote for him.
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On the post about SouthRawrea, there is really no justification for even suggesting its a slip up. I was talking about previous games and this is obvious. And it's not mind blowingly important but it was helpful to the minor discussion at hand. Period. Everything you are adding to it is WIFOM - this is why first people were using it to say we were both mafia and now are using it to say only I am mafia.
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Yeah, bumatlarge's plan was bad - I didn't know that PMs weren't allowed. Luckilly I didn't send any before figuring that out. I have all the teams figured out now and I didn't when LSB and I first talked on IM about our thoughts.
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"Apologizes for his partner, tries to wave it aside. Doesn't contribute."
Infundibulum just a few posts ago mentioned that people are focusing on meeple rather than both meeple and Yellowink so people are still not following this advice (supposedly). Personally, I've seen posts about yellowink and meeple but the point is that its an important idea. Nevertheless your conclusion admits that I am "not as scummy" as LSB but chalks this up to my experience and fewer posts (I think I've been posting quite a bit). You even admit "If this team were two Pyrr's" you wouldn't vote for us, which proves you are voting only because of LSB, which proves that I was making a necessary contribution by asking people to consider people in pairs when choosing lynch targets.
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*Stares at all of you with a cold, deathly stare.*
Alright, whats done is done. At least they weren't blue. Now, some stuff I want happening
1. Foolishness, more analysis. I know what your capable of.
2. BC, really man? Step it up, you're like pro.
3.Team 2, start talking. SR has been doing well, haven't heard much from the other two.
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Is it just me or is it hard to keep track of days? I'm not sure if it's just for this game but I seem to be oblivious of when the next day is coming.
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On September 25 2010 11:07 SouthRawrea wrote:
Is it just me or is it hard to keep track of days? I'm not sure if it's just for this game but I seem to be oblivious of when the next day is coming.
Well I didn't know Day was about to end, I kinda figured Korynne would say "x hours left" or something when it got close.
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Yeah I was about to try and squeeze another big post in or something and see if I could change the votes a bit but it ended quite abruptly.
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On September 25 2010 11:07 SouthRawrea wrote:
Is it just me or is it hard to keep track of days? I'm not sure if it's just for this game but I seem to be oblivious of when the next day is coming.
you aren't alone - i had no idea it was ending this soon
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Dang I'm good at being pro-mafia. I'm too disheartened to defend myself, so go ahead and lynch me. I will still be voting for Team 1, although nobody is in the clear at this point. This is our last chance to lynch a mafia, and nobody's really done a good job at looking pro-town at this point.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On September 25 2010 17:53 Incognito wrote:
Dang I'm good at being pro-mafia. I'm too disheartened to defend myself, so go ahead and lynch me. I will still be voting for Team 1, although nobody is in the clear at this point. This is our last chance to lynch a mafia, and nobody's really done a good job at looking pro-town at this point.
Did you really just say that?
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On September 25 2010 23:58 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 17:53 Incognito wrote:
Dang I'm good at being pro-mafia. I'm too disheartened to defend myself, so go ahead and lynch me. I will still be voting for Team 1, although nobody is in the clear at this point. This is our last chance to lynch a mafia, and nobody's really done a good job at looking pro-town at this point. Did you really just say that?
That looks like the type of post I made every time I got an innocent lynched in Mafia XII.
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EPT
