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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
On September 25 2010 05:10 Pandain wrote:
EBWOP:
LSB's contradiction isn't so criminalizing anymore as I now note he said "we don't have to use no lynch today. " so still suscipsious, but keep that in mind.
Also,
##Vote Team One
Okay, but what do you have to say about the link between teams 1 and 7? From my point of view (and probably Incognito's as well) voting for team 1 is the same as voting for team 7.
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There's a difference between arguing, and flat out lying
On September 25 2010 05:06 Pandain wrote:Other People: I am with those who think LSB and Pyrr are mafia, and I find him a much better, and safer choice to vote for. In addition, I'd like to point something out from LSB: Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 10:14 LSB wrote:
Overview: The entire Divinek/Southrawrea/Bumatalarge team was incredibly unhelpful. This isn’t like Zeks, who just lurks all the time. Divinek, Southrawrea, and Bumatalarge usually at least make the effort to help. It’s strange why none of them are doing that right now.
Addon: Bumatalarge’s second post is actually pretty helpful.
Conclusion: Not as sure as before, before I was going off of the "This can't be a coincidence. Once is a accidence, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action".
This could just be South and Divinek. If Bum didn't make his second post, I would have immediatly voted for him.
NOTE THE BOLDED SECTION. Now, what he's saying here is that he would have voted for Bum except for the post Bum wrote after a post LSB made:
Bum posted the 2nd post before I released my Analysis o.o
Thats why in my Analysis, I explicitly state that I am unsure if their team is mafia anymore.
Conclusion: Not as sure as before, before I was going off of the "This can't be a coincidence. Once is a accidence, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action".
That's why I did not vote for them
HOW MANY TIMES Do I have to say that I won't vote for people that I am not completely sure that they are mafia?
Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 04:16 LSB wrote:
Okay, I believe it is essential to use the No Lynch.
The No Lynch will give the Mafia another kill. But at the same time, it gives us another DT check, it gives us another Medic protection. (Assuming they exist).
And it won’t actually shorten lylo date. With or without No lynch, we have 2 mislynchs till we lose. It doesn’t change
I’m not saying we have to use it now. I’m just saying, if we don’t use it today, we should use it tomorrow. That way we can take advantage of the No-Lynch benefits.
So, he was going to vote for Team 2 even after this, if not for a post? Wtf is this? You're fadoodling my mind here.
I said that it is in our advantage to use a no-lynch as either way (worst case scenario), we have only two lynches
You are wrong on both counts
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On September 25 2010 05:42 LSB wrote:There's a difference between arguing, and flat out lying Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 05:06 Pandain wrote:Other People: I am with those who think LSB and Pyrr are mafia, and I find him a much better, and safer choice to vote for. In addition, I'd like to point something out from LSB: On September 21 2010 10:14 LSB wrote:
Overview: The entire Divinek/Southrawrea/Bumatalarge team was incredibly unhelpful. This isn’t like Zeks, who just lurks all the time. Divinek, Southrawrea, and Bumatalarge usually at least make the effort to help. It’s strange why none of them are doing that right now.
Addon: Bumatalarge’s second post is actually pretty helpful.
Conclusion: Not as sure as before, before I was going off of the "This can't be a coincidence. Once is a accidence, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action".
This could just be South and Divinek. If Bum didn't make his second post, I would have immediatly voted for him.
NOTE THE BOLDED SECTION. Now, what he's saying here is that he would have voted for Bum except for the post Bum wrote after a post LSB made: Bum posted the 2nd post before I released my Analysis o.o Thats why in my Analysis, I explicitly state that I am unsure if their team is mafia anymore. Show nested quote +Conclusion: Not as sure as before, before I was going off of the "This can't be a coincidence. Once is a accidence, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action". That's why I did not vote for themHOW MANY TIMES Do I have to say that I won't vote for people that I am not completely sure that they are mafia? Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 04:16 LSB wrote:
Okay, I believe it is essential to use the No Lynch.
The No Lynch will give the Mafia another kill. But at the same time, it gives us another DT check, it gives us another Medic protection. (Assuming they exist).
And it won’t actually shorten lylo date. With or without No lynch, we have 2 mislynchs till we lose. It doesn’t change
I’m not saying we have to use it now. I’m just saying, if we don’t use it today, we should use it tomorrow. That way we can take advantage of the No-Lynch benefits.
So, he was going to vote for Team 2 even after this, if not for a post? Wtf is this? You're fadoodling my mind here. I said that it is in our advantage to use a no-lynch as either way (worst case scenario), we have only two lynches You are wrong on both counts
Calm down lol. First of all I don't know what your talking about for the "first point". My only purpose in that was pointing out how you were going to vote for Bum after you said "We must use no lynch!" But I've already pointed out you saved yourself with saying "we don't need to use no lynch today".
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There is a difference between "We should use the no lynch sometime." And a "We should not lynch someone today" o.o
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On September 24 2010 17:10 Incognito wrote:Relevant section of Ace's post here: Show nested quote +The only thing worrying me is that Incognito seems to have pegged both your teams also which shows his scumdar is operating on great batteries like mine, or he's just good at picking off easy townies. Key word also. This means Ace pegged your teams too. Ace shows his cards here. He agrees that Team 1/7 are scummy. The way he phrases it shows that he independently arrived at his conclusion too and is not just sheepishly agreeing with me. I'm not assuming anything. I'm just stating facts. The facts are: Ace pegged your teams. Ace's death makes perfect sense when you see this fact.
You ignored the second half of the sentence.
or he's just good at picking off easy townies.
I am seriously having doubts on whether or not you are town. What you are doing is taking small posts, and blowing them out of proportion.
I would understand if this is RL mafia, Freudian slips apply, but in online mafia, people are able to write up their posts and edit them before they post them.
Show nested quote + On September 23 2010 20:19 Divinek wrote:
totally buy the argument. Especially for team 7, what else is there to say other than it makes overwhelming sense. There's all kind of WIFOM shit people can throw into this but that slip up is pretty LOL. Cause i know i hate people that vote for me, or even attack me ie LSB, and so on so it's quite easy reasoning to follow
baa baaa
##vote team 7
Bandwagoning? As a veiled attack on Team 2 this is atrocious. Gonna accuse anyone who votes for your scumbuddy as bandwagoning? The evidence is pretty clear at this point.
Uhh… Again, you like to ignore my previous posts in order to further your own point.
I have stated that I will keep an eye out if Divinek starts to bandwagon. Guess what? He did.
On September 24 2010 18:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Summary
LSB acting shady not really contributing gets EXTREMELY defensive about an accusation then counter accuses someone, doesn't get behind the lynch of a very likely mafia candidate. Partner also acts suspicious (will get into in a minute)
Verdict=mafia
I’ll just quote this paragraph. Your entire ‘accusation’ was just a rehash of things I’ve addressed with Incog. Things like my supposed neutrality are brought up, and I have already addressed it.
I would understand if you refuted my defense. But you didn’t do anything. You just pointed out someone else’s idea and slapped a vote on me.
I can see why Pyrr wants to lynch you. And I’ll go with his judgment
##Vote: Team 6 BloodyC0bbler and RebirthOfLeGenD
On September 24 2010 18:50 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +That's all really misleading... I have stated my own thoughts on a number of occasions... if we are mafia, why would we go after a team that has previously had no real suspicions put upon them by anyone else... instead of simply following the crowd and gone after someone with the heat on. There's no reason for me to make enemies, townie or red...
When I get time, and if it isn't done already by my partner YellowInk, I'll get into that more comprehensive analysis of team 6. Simple. You think Team 6 is the most scummy team that isn't you or your scumbuddy. You have every incentive as mafia to go after a new team (Team 6), especially since the other option (Team 1) isn't so palatable from your point of view. Team 6 is pretty inactive, and you're going to have to save yourself somehow, so no reason not to vote Team 6. There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of Team 6. The reasons just arent as good as the reasons for you or Team 1. I'll agree that a lot of Foolishness's "analysis" is sketchy and is a stretch. But there are some good points there. To all those saying Meeple never takes any stands, check out ALL of meeple's posts in TL Mafia XXVII. Not just the first 10 or so. He definitely contributes his thoughts about lynch targets/other characters. Here's a few excerpts: Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 11:23 meeple wrote:
I trust Ludwig with almost no doubts... much more than moocow... and I trust them both more than some other people.
There's a slight chance of there being mafia amongst our dts... but like radfield said, its questionable whether this is a good time to start offing claimed blues.
flamewheel's willingness to undergo a check makes me hesitate to push a check on him... but it doesn't put him in the clear obviously. I would try for a redtooth alignment check tonight... or Chez... Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 11:33 meeple wrote:
Ludwig has been active... but he's just active at a different time... totally offset from North American time.
I never said you were suspicious... I just said that I trust Ludwig... mostly because if he was mafia there's no way he would've stepped in before. His trusting of L isn't suspicious, tons of people followed L's plan...
His reactions when Chez was shooting people was genuine I felt... he was just confused, as was I, at what the hell was going on.
I have no reason to distrust you, and for sure you're low on the list of suspects... Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 02:00 meeple wrote:
I'm down with RoL more than Vivi57... there's little/no case to be made for/against Vivi since he's so inactive. Show nested quote +On June 15 2010 02:06 meeple wrote:
Having said that and then going through his posts... RoL is pretty damn inactive too...
I'll have to think more about which one is more deserving Show nested quote +On June 13 2010 04:07 meeple wrote:
I don't agree with lynching Chez on the grounds of inactivity though. If I have some time to go through posts I'll come up with more suspects. Show nested quote +On June 17 2010 08:26 meeple wrote:
Ludwig is most definitely the roleblocker... that's the only way he can hold up his claims to be a dt...
Also... Radfield is the last mafia I beleive... too many close inexplicable ties with Ludwig then last minute trying to push away.
I trusted Ludwig because I was being impulsive about his defense of me early on and took a risk (and a rather stupid one)... but when I didn't die I thought that it kinda proved that he wasn't red... since who wouldn't take a lovely medic dangled in front of you like that. I didn't really trust Radfield... was kinda forced into it by Ludwig...
Anyways... tommorow's lynch of radfield should clinch the game for us... Meeple states his trust, states who to rolecheck, agrees/disagrees on lynching certain targets, and gives more input on the situation with the last quote. Notice how he consistently doesn't like lynching on inactivity. Notice how that contrasts with this game, where he wants to lynch BC based on uselessness/inactivity... Lastly, Show nested quote +On June 16 2010 11:28 meeple wrote:Alright so... first things first... I'm the medic... The mafia knows it by know and so should the town. Obviously I claimed watcher because there was a shitload of greens and it was simply more believable. I had been in PM contact with Ludwig a little and later claimed medic to him since he had defended me in the thread... through him I also had PM contact with Radfield, who also knew me as the medic (through Ludwig... not my decision to tell him) Now... not too long after I claimed to be watcher and had "found" the medic, Foolishness PMs me wondering why I hadn't contacted him yet and claims watcher and tells me (to prove that he's a watcher) that tree.hugger also visited Ludwig last night. Of course, I couldn't have known that, but regardless I was just so fucking elated that we had a medic/watcher pair, since now we can coordinate. Things proceed, now with me thinking I had a solid base with a watcher by my side... until I get a PM from L, asking me if Foolishness is the medic... I respond somewhat vaguely, but give him a strong indication that Foolishness is indeed the medic... knowing that if they went after him I could always protect him. Then L flips Godfather and the shit hits the fan and I knew that L would've told the rest of the reds to go after Foolishness. So tonight we schemed... I protected Foolishness, and he watched himself to see who hit him. AND IT WAS MOTHER FUCKING + Show Spoiler +The same friggin dude that I had supported and backed like a moron... Anyways... we lynch him today and we're down to 1 red... meeple was involved in a blue roles scheme. I know we don't have as complex blue roles this game, but meeple was certainly contributing in the other game. On the other hand, meeple has zero useful contributions this game. And no thoughts on lynch targets either. Except for team 6.
kk I'll read through meeples posts with you.
1. No stand
2. No stand
3. No stand
4. No stand
5. No stand
6. Says that he thinks Ludwig and Radfield are mafia. There isn't that much anlysis
7. I agree! Very usefull contribution!
After reading through all of that I don't see how you are still able to accuse meeple of being mafia. Meeple doesn't really commit to much. Understandable, not everyone wants to play this game 24/7.
You point to his contribution (#7), and I agree. Thats great thinking by meeple. But you can't suddenly generalize everything off of it.
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On September 25 2010 05:55 LSB wrote:
There is a difference between "We should use the no lynch sometime." And a "We should not lynch someone today" o.o
Which is what I pointed out 
On September 25 2010 05:22 Foolishness wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 05:10 Pandain wrote:
EBWOP:
LSB's contradiction isn't so criminalizing anymore as I now note he said "we don't have to use no lynch today. " so still suscipsious, but keep that in mind.
Also,
##Vote Team One Okay, but what do you have to say about the link between teams 1 and 7? From my point of view (and probably Incognito's as well) voting for team 1 is the same as voting for team 7.
Alright, I sorted it out into 3 catagories
Negative(suggests no relation)
Indifferent(doesn't say)
Supportive(Suggests relationship)
LSB's Posts regarding Team 7
Negative:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 20 2010 02:02 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 14:22 YellowInk wrote:
I think we should hang Ace and Bill Murray. Why? On September 20 2010 03:50 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 02:53 YellowInk wrote:On September 20 2010 02:02 LSB wrote:On September 19 2010 14:22 YellowInk wrote:
I think we should hang Ace and Bill Murray. Why? Bill Murray frequently plays in a way that is destructive to town productivity when he is town. Among all the histories of those I know playing, he gives me the greatest reason to hang given a blind choice. However, I do agree with Ace. Ace's question needs to be answered and Bill Murray needs to show that he'll help the town. Then we'll see how things go. kk. Just remember, we don't have enough room for policy lynches. On September 20 2010 06:32 LSB wrote:
Lets see, two accusations going right now
Ace/BM: This isn't a real accusation. More like Bill Murray Foe on Sight
Rastaban/Foolishness: Based on the Premise that they are more inactive than usual. Foolishness pops out and disproves that.
Neither one I like
Indifferent:
+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2010 08:43 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 05:32 meeple wrote:
Hold on... so we only get 2 lynches if we have a no lynch and no save scenario... balls to the walls... wait...
Assuming we use our no lynch now and assuming that we have no medic saves...
Today:_______________6 v 2
Tommorow____________5 v 2
Day 3:_______3 v 2______or_______4 v 1
Day 4:__town lose or 2 v 1____2 v 1 or town win
Day 5: town win or town lose in both cases
What am I missing... this gives a 50% chance of town win, based on total randomness and no saves. Agreed! That's why no lynch! (I swear I said this somewhere earlier) Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 05:39 Incognito wrote:
If town, meeple and YI should be coordinating votes. While both voted for team 6 previously, one switched to Team 1 while one switched to no lynch. No real reason to split your votes if you're town...this 1-1 split vote makes it interesting because meeple effectively negates YI's vote. The thing is, why is this bandwagon interesting? I don't see anything interesting about it except what your partner voted.
Meeple, how are we screwed later if we "waste" our no lynch today? The only reason I can see is if a medic makes a save. And that is a terrible reason.
Anyways, I can see what you said that this is a possible scum maneuvers. But just remember, a lot of the scum maneuvers and town maneuvers are the same. (Ie both try not to get killed). However, they do have solid reasons for disagreeing. It's based on No lynching. I can understand them, if Pyrr votes for something, and I disagree with him, I'm not just going to go, "Whatever, I'll just follow Pyrr", I'm going to vote differently
Supportive:
This one's a biggie.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 24 2010 07:35 LSB wrote:MisconseptionsShow nested quote +On September 23 2010 21:01 SouthRawrea wrote:On September 23 2010 12:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
@ this whole LSB vs. Incognito thing
Incog and SR seem to be locked in on LSB because he is supposedly too passive. He's not close to the most passive person here. BrownBear hasn't done much except advocate a no lynch. More importantly, BC hasn't done shit.
I don't believe BC has an "I don't care mode." I see his name pop up on MSN often enough. I called him out for his placeholder vote on Foolishness and he didn't ever come back around to move it. RoL, is of course active this game, but that's even weirder than an inactive BC.
vote team 6 Nah it has nothing to do with being passive. He comes out with a strong accusation against my team and then fails to followup or explain himself properly. I'm having quite a dilemna right now because I know very well that it's obviously considered anti-town behaviour to not post much at all and so I'm looking to the inactive teams. The problem I have is that I can't shake the feeling that the mafia may be an active team as well. I've got to go for now but I'm going to look over Team 6 when I get back from school. Just saying, that was not a strong accusation at all. I then retract myself mid post. If it was an accusation, I would have ended my post with a vote. Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 03:57 meeple wrote:Also the people that accused BM/Ace LSB + Show Spoiler +On September 22 2010 08:20 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 17:36 Incognito wrote:
Its not just his actions, its his mindset. If you read over LSB's posts, all his posts are neutral and he never takes a stand. Its not easy for anyone to pinpoint what LSB supports because he doesn't support anything. And that's the point. Mafia don't want to take an active stance because then they have to defend it. Mafia would like to sit on the fence so that nobody can hold them responsible for their actions while subtly working to subvert town goals. Town has nothing to lose by taking sides. Now looking at LSB's past games, he takes sides as town. He is decisive and actively contributes to the town while openly attempting to convince others of his view. On the other hand, this game LSB does not take sides. He is not decisive, and only points out flaws. Is he attempting to convince others to follow his point of view? No, he doesn't have one. LSB is not interested in the town's welfare. He wants to create the appearance of pro-town activity by pointing out the flaws in my plan while using neutral language and doing nothing to help town. As for the things I'm supporting 1) No lynch. 2) Bum's medic plan Show nested quote +This post attempts to derail the focus on LSB's scumminess by setting up straw men and refusing to directly refute my accusations. LSB says he didn't make a plan because the game setup is not exploitable. While this may be true, this does not address the motives behind LSB's actions. LSB is refuting the planning aspect of his play. I am attacking the motives behind his play, namely that as town he takes stances and tries to work for the town's benefit. The thing is, if I was mafia, I would be supporting an erronous plan, trying to get the town to take part of a plan that is easily exploitable. A great way to do that is to support your plan! Your plan has problems. Strangely you haven't address these problems. Right now you are saying, "LSB seems skummy, so therefore I don't need to worry about the holes in my plan". That isn't logic, that's misdirection. Show nested quote +The erroneous logic is in the
"oh no what happens if a DT/medic doesn't exist" question, not the no lynch issue. Stop trying to appear all innocent and beating around the bush. I'll repeat myself: We should use the DT and the Medic in the places where they will be most effective. The Medic should focus on making sure that someone doesn't die. And the DT should be used to try to investigate targets. I don't like the list idea, since it tells the mafia what to stay out of. Again, please address this problem. Tell me why I am wrong, don't just make a long post on why I'm supposed mafia to distract others from seeing that your plan has a problem. Show nested quote +If there are no fixes, you junk the plan an move on. Valid. But you didn't move on. You junked the plan, and promptly disappeared. The most plausible reason why you did that is because you are mafia.
I don't have this list of possible plans in my pocket and try to use them. If I think of something, I'll use it sure. I moved on of course, chiefly no lynch once we figured out that it could be used. Show nested quote +To say those posts were serious accusations that deserved input would be flat out lies Again, I'm not saying your statement was a lie. I'm saying that the motiviations for your post are shaky. Everyone reading this post should be looking at the subjective question of why LSB is posting the way he is. Reading LSB's posts at face value isn't going to get us anywhere. Its not a matter of lie or truth. Its a matter of what seems realistic given the mindset of the poster. What I am saying is that your accusations twist my words. You admit that you can't read my posts at face value because if you do, you'll find that I'm a townie. You now are relying on the fact that I haven't taken any positions? What positions are you accusing me of not taking on? Planning: You claim that I haven't made a plan. Therefore I am Mafia. Thats just silly. I'm not going to make a plan unless I think of one. Ace/BM is scumYou said that I didn't give enough input into the Ace/BM lynch. Well, I don't feel like I should. Because I think there're town Rastaban/Foolishness is scum: You said that I didn't give enough input into the Rastaban/Foolishness lynch. Well, I don't feel like I should. So you expect me to 1) Pull out plans or die, or 2) Accuse random people. <sarcasm>Sounds townie to me </sarcasm> Show nested quote +
LSB's recent "analysis" on Team 2 cannot be considered a natural pro-town sign since he only posted it under pressure from 3 people. So don't use this as an excuse for why you're town. It won't work.
I would have liked more time to see what Bum would do, and how SR would play this game. But like you said, people wanted me to post. So I did, and I said that I didn't really think that they were mafia since new posts didn't fit with my general theory. Conclusions: I think we should examine some of the players that bandwagoned on Team 1... especially Team 2 since we know BM had some serious concerns about them. Don’t misquote me please Show nested quote + Ace/BM is scum:You said that I didn't give enough input into the Ace/BM lynch. Well, I don't feel like I should. Because I think there're town
MiscellaneousShow nested quote +On September 23 2010 14:02 BrownBear wrote:
Well, mildly predictable. I was half-expecting team incog, to be honest, but this is also a solid hit by mafia.
(im assuming they were vanilla town)
So where to today? Yeah, ACE/BM was vanilla town (their names were in green) 2nd post coming soon On September 24 2010 08:49 LSB wrote:Intresting... I agree its strange how Team 7 is accusing team 6. It's probably their trying to draw the heat off of themselves. Anyways I haven't played with Meeple before, so I can't say much, but I went through this game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128918Meeple was townie, and he wasn't a big contributor and didn't make much (if any) stands
LSB's status towards Team 7: While he does make that big long post which defends team 7, that comes after a series of posts which do not seem like mafia working together. Why did LSB make this post? It could be for a number of reason:
1. Bring Team 7 down with him
2. Just trying to negate Incognitos as "credible"
3.Feels genuinely about the topic
4.Just posting about it(can be town or mafia.)
Also note in that post he is negative towards meeple, saying "DONT MISQUOTE ME BIATCH" except in a nicer tone. That brings up the question, why would meeple bring that up at all if there related?
All in all, not enough to elicit a Team 7=team 1. It may show correlation, but a neccesity? Not at all.
Pyrr's Posts regarding team 7:
Negative:
On September 22 2010 05:55 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 05:51 meeple wrote:On September 22 2010 05:39 Incognito wrote:This post is interesting. YI wants to avoid a situation where town is divided with votes? That's interesting, since usually town gains more information from close votes...note how he splits his vote from his own team mate. Like Pandain, the only weird votes I see are coming from Divinek and YI. Otherwise its just two teams voting for Team 1. On September 22 2010 04:33 meeple wrote:
Well... even though I'm hesitant to use our only no-lynch this early... in a game this small we will need every scrap of information we can get... that bandwagon on team 1 seems interesting too...
unvote Team 6
vote: No lynch If town, meeple and YI should be coordinating votes. While both voted for team 6 previously, one switched to Team 1 while one switched to no lynch. No real reason to split your votes if you're town...this 1-1 split vote makes it interesting because meeple effectively negates YI's vote. The thing is, why is this bandwagon interesting? I don't see anything interesting about it except what your partner voted. Meeple, how are we screwed later if we "waste" our no lynch today? The only reason I can see is if a medic makes a save. And that is a terrible reason. On September 22 2010 04:41 Foolishness wrote:On September 19 2010 18:44 Incognito wrote:
I'm going to count on Team 3 and 6 for some strong analysis within the next 24 hours. Please do not disappoint.
On September 21 2010 17:43 Incognito wrote:
At this point we have enough information to lynch. I believe that all the mafia are out there in the open.
Foolishness needs to analyze the information we have now instead of rotting away while insisting we need more time to get information before lynch. There is plenty information out there. Anyone claiming otherwise is just too lazy to read the information here. There is no reason to wait. So let's see, I'm running through all my past mafia games, and counting the number of mafia I nailed because they said things like this. I'm at 3 so far. I'm very excited to see you be the fourth. Aww, this is disappointing. You only start fishing for info now? Pretty pathetic, I might say. *** I get why people want to no lynch. In a 1 KP game town always wants to lynch when there are an odd number of townies and don't want to lynch when theres an even number. The reason why we probably won't get any information from this lynch is because of the nolynch. Not that hard for anyone to policy no lynch when theres an even number of townies. There's nothing fishy about this lynch. The general apathy in this game is astonishing in its ability to do that. I'd rather there be something fishy about this lynch, but apparently we won't be graced with that information. Eh you're right, me and YI aren't really coordinating that much... probably should be. I never agreed with a Team 1 vote... About the wasting our no lynch... I was just summarizing the reservations I picked up... could've been misinterpreted though. I thought that saving our No lynch could possibly avoid a situation where we are forced to lynch but don't have a good target and as a result we lose. In any case, I don't mind using it now, since we don't really have alot of evidence or solid leads. The thing is, if we ever get to a spot where we need to use the no lynch to avoid a bad situation, we are helped out of that bad situation even if we use it day 1... in a sense.
On September 23 2010 11:30 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 10:59 meeple wrote:
odd choice for mafia... people seem to have a grudge against them
Now comes the analysis of their posts knowing that they were town. Doesn't seem like an odd choice for me because Ace is one of the best players and Bill Murray was pretty cogent so far this game.
Indifferent
On September 22 2010 05:52 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 05:39 Incognito wrote:This post is interesting. YI wants to avoid a situation where town is divided with votes? That's interesting, since usually town gains more information from close votes...note how he splits his vote from his own team mate. I think he is worried because if the votes are split between two teams it is likely the mafia will be able to save the guilty one, if one of the two are guilty.
Supportive
None really
I'm not going to count the ones where he defended himself because those would be artificially made even if he was mafia.
Analysis: From LSB's two posts defending team 7 are the only things which really show a correlation. But that can be taken as an individual casis, and even in that post there were things which suggested a non-correlation.
So, possible but definitely not certain.
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On September 25 2010 06:24 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 05:55 LSB wrote:
There is a difference between "We should use the no lynch sometime." And a "We should not lynch someone today" o.o Which is what I pointed out
Me saying we should use the no lynch sometime is a statement of fact. I said that I notice a tool I can use.
How is that a position on the lynch for the day?
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And yes, I believe that Team 7 is town
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Is there anything in particular that makes you all want to kill team 6 over anyone else? I'm alright not killing team 7 at the moment, but you all seem to be voting for team 6 as a "well we need a team that's not team 7, okay let's go with 6" instead of thinking they're actually mafia.
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To start with, I apologize for my insane inactivity this game. Have spent a fair amount of my mornings/afternoons job hunting, then out with friends I haven't seen for months at night. Few peoples birthdays, as well as a family in the hospital leads to me being insanely busy (much more so than I was anticipating). I have managed to garner time and look over the debates on today's lynch and some of the arguments are fairly convincing so I shall trust you guys this once as I won't have the time to go more carefully into things till tomorrow at the earliest. As such to avoid being modkilled.
Vote team 7
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On September 25 2010 06:58 Foolishness wrote:
Is there anything in particular that makes you all want to kill team 6 over anyone else? I'm alright not killing team 7 at the moment, but you all seem to be voting for team 6 as a "well we need a team that's not team 7, okay let's go with 6" instead of thinking they're actually mafia.
=I'm going to vote with Pyrr, this way we can make our votes count more.
Of course, I have my own opinion too, and it supports pyrr's right now
On September 23 2010 12:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
@ this whole LSB vs. Incognito thing
Incog and SR seem to be locked in on LSB because he is supposedly too passive. He's not close to the most passive person here. BrownBear hasn't done much except advocate a no lynch. More importantly, BC hasn't done shit.
I don't believe BC has an "I don't care mode." I see his name pop up on MSN often enough. I called him out for his placeholder vote on Foolishness and he didn't ever come back around to move it. RoL, is of course active this game, but that's even weirder than an inactive BC.
vote team 6
I can't really tell about the BC thing, I'll take Pyrr's word on it. But I've heard that he is a a really good player and it is really strange why he wouldn't be doing much.
On the other hand, RoL Has been making really mafia ish posts. He seems somewhat active, but when we look at his long posts, they are mainly restatements of what other people has said.
RoL is band-wagoning a lot of stuff. Well he didn't bandwagon me day 1, but that would be obvious as something was wrong with that bandwagon. Me flipping green would be seriously detrimental to the people who started my lynch. But now as we enter day two, RoL takes an easy path and Picks on Team 7, and us Team 1. Something that everyone else has done.
In addition, he just does things that other people has done before. He makes 'analysis' but all he did was go through and reword Incog's attacks
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On September 24 2010 19:22 meeple wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 18:50 Incognito wrote:That's all really misleading... I have stated my own thoughts on a number of occasions... if we are mafia, why would we go after a team that has previously had no real suspicions put upon them by anyone else... instead of simply following the crowd and gone after someone with the heat on. There's no reason for me to make enemies, townie or red...
When I get time, and if it isn't done already by my partner YellowInk, I'll get into that more comprehensive analysis of team 6. Simple. You think Team 6 is the most scummy team that isn't you or your scumbuddy. You have every incentive as mafia to go after a new team (Team 6), especially since the other option (Team 1) isn't so palatable from your point of view. Team 6 is pretty inactive, and you're going to have to save yourself somehow, so no reason not to vote Team 6. There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of Team 6. The reasons just arent as good as the reasons for you or Team 1. I'll agree that a lot of Foolishness's "analysis" is sketchy and is a stretch. But there are some good points there. To all those saying Meeple never takes any stands, check out ALL of meeple's posts in TL Mafia XXVII. Not just the first 10 or so. He definitely contributes his thoughts about lynch targets/other characters. Here's a few excerpts: On June 15 2010 11:23 meeple wrote:
I trust Ludwig with almost no doubts... much more than moocow... and I trust them both more than some other people.
There's a slight chance of there being mafia amongst our dts... but like radfield said, its questionable whether this is a good time to start offing claimed blues.
flamewheel's willingness to undergo a check makes me hesitate to push a check on him... but it doesn't put him in the clear obviously. I would try for a redtooth alignment check tonight... or Chez... On June 15 2010 11:33 meeple wrote:
Ludwig has been active... but he's just active at a different time... totally offset from North American time.
I never said you were suspicious... I just said that I trust Ludwig... mostly because if he was mafia there's no way he would've stepped in before. His trusting of L isn't suspicious, tons of people followed L's plan...
His reactions when Chez was shooting people was genuine I felt... he was just confused, as was I, at what the hell was going on.
I have no reason to distrust you, and for sure you're low on the list of suspects... On June 15 2010 02:00 meeple wrote:
I'm down with RoL more than Vivi57... there's little/no case to be made for/against Vivi since he's so inactive. On June 15 2010 02:06 meeple wrote:
Having said that and then going through his posts... RoL is pretty damn inactive too...
I'll have to think more about which one is more deserving On June 13 2010 04:07 meeple wrote:
I don't agree with lynching Chez on the grounds of inactivity though. If I have some time to go through posts I'll come up with more suspects. On June 17 2010 08:26 meeple wrote:
Ludwig is most definitely the roleblocker... that's the only way he can hold up his claims to be a dt...
Also... Radfield is the last mafia I beleive... too many close inexplicable ties with Ludwig then last minute trying to push away.
I trusted Ludwig because I was being impulsive about his defense of me early on and took a risk (and a rather stupid one)... but when I didn't die I thought that it kinda proved that he wasn't red... since who wouldn't take a lovely medic dangled in front of you like that. I didn't really trust Radfield... was kinda forced into it by Ludwig...
Anyways... tommorow's lynch of radfield should clinch the game for us... Meeple states his trust, states who to rolecheck, agrees/disagrees on lynching certain targets, and gives more input on the situation with the last quote. Notice how he consistently doesn't like lynching on inactivity. Notice how that contrasts with this game, where he wants to lynch BC based on uselessness/inactivity... Lastly, On June 16 2010 11:28 meeple wrote:Alright so... first things first... I'm the medic... The mafia knows it by know and so should the town. Obviously I claimed watcher because there was a shitload of greens and it was simply more believable. I had been in PM contact with Ludwig a little and later claimed medic to him since he had defended me in the thread... through him I also had PM contact with Radfield, who also knew me as the medic (through Ludwig... not my decision to tell him) Now... not too long after I claimed to be watcher and had "found" the medic, Foolishness PMs me wondering why I hadn't contacted him yet and claims watcher and tells me (to prove that he's a watcher) that tree.hugger also visited Ludwig last night. Of course, I couldn't have known that, but regardless I was just so fucking elated that we had a medic/watcher pair, since now we can coordinate. Things proceed, now with me thinking I had a solid base with a watcher by my side... until I get a PM from L, asking me if Foolishness is the medic... I respond somewhat vaguely, but give him a strong indication that Foolishness is indeed the medic... knowing that if they went after him I could always protect him. Then L flips Godfather and the shit hits the fan and I knew that L would've told the rest of the reds to go after Foolishness. So tonight we schemed... I protected Foolishness, and he watched himself to see who hit him. AND IT WAS MOTHER FUCKING + Show Spoiler +The same friggin dude that I had supported and backed like a moron... Anyways... we lynch him today and we're down to 1 red... meeple was involved in a blue roles scheme. I know we don't have as complex blue roles this game, but meeple was certainly contributing in the other game. On the other hand, meeple has zero useful contributions this game. And no thoughts on lynch targets either. Except for team 6. That was an awesome game... but taken out of context you can't say that I need to act the same every game. Behavioral analysis can only go so far... I was a power role then, and as such I acted differently from when I'm a townie, as in this game. I haven't taken stands because as far as I'm concerned there's no stands to take... I haven't been really confident yet... although one is starting to develop. You seem to have developed quite the following... when you cast a vote you have a couple buddies that nod along and sheep with you. Are you confident enough in your analysis to say that you should be next when we flip green?
Apparently you underestimate or misunderstand behavior analysis.
There are plenty of stands to take. The only problem is, you just say "we need to do this" while not doing it. The other stands you probably don't want to take. Notice your partner ditching you here and going off to vote Team 1 again. That's the second switchup from Team 6 to Team 1 in two days.
Oh, poor you. Haven't been confident yet. But you're starting to develop it? Well show me, because I don't see it.
Whether town or mafia, good mafia players are able to influence people to their point of view. No matter how good an analyst you are, you aren't going to get anywhere if you can't convince anyone.
That last question is irrelevant. If you lynched Ace for pegging both of your teams, you'd kill an innocent. Being wrong doesn't say anything about alignment. You should be lynching scummy people, not people who get innocents killed. Of course, getting an innocent killed is definitely grounds for investigation. By all means, I'll encourage people to analyze my votes if you flip green. I just don't think they'll find anything that scummy about me though.
Judging by your vote for Team 6 and your lack of hostility against me, I'm going to guess you don't think I'm that scummy. If you're green, you might as well do an analysis on me before you die.
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I have stated that I will keep an eye out if Divinek starts to bandwagon. Guess what? He did.
Of course, you're not at all concerned about your bandwagoning...
I can't really tell about the BC thing, I'll take Pyrr's word on it. But I've heard that he is a a really good player and it is really strange why he wouldn't be doing much.
Divinek's reasons for voting Team 7 are wayyyyy better than your reasons for voting Team 6. Just because you use more words than him doesn't mean your words have more substance and thought behind them.
Apparently Pandain didn't read my post here.
Voting Team 1 is almost the same (not exactly, but close enough) as voting Team 7. But the way its going now I'm sticking to Team 7. We'll know in a bit whether to lynch Team 1 or look elsewhere.
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On September 25 2010 06:08 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 17:10 Incognito wrote:Relevant section of Ace's post here: The only thing worrying me is that Incognito seems to have pegged both your teams also which shows his scumdar is operating on great batteries like mine, or he's just good at picking off easy townies. Key word also. This means Ace pegged your teams too. Ace shows his cards here. He agrees that Team 1/7 are scummy. The way he phrases it shows that he independently arrived at his conclusion too and is not just sheepishly agreeing with me. I'm not assuming anything. I'm just stating facts. The facts are: Ace pegged your teams. Ace's death makes perfect sense when you see this fact. You ignored the second half of the sentence.
You ignored the connecting part of the sentence.
The only thing worrying me is that Incognito seems to have pegged both your teams also which shows his scumdar is operating on great batteries like mine, or he's just good at picking off easy townies.
The first part of the sentence is a fact. The second part after "which shows" states Ace's concern. Ace pegged your teams. He's just worried because he doesn't think highly of me, so he's alarmed that I came to the same conclusions as him. Since he doesn't really think I'm a good player, he's wondering whether we're both wrong and I'm just misleading him/everyone and picking off easy townies.
I thought people were taught how to read in school. Apparently not. I guess I'll forgive you for selectively reading if you're mafia. If not, we'll probably need a how to read guide for TL mafia. Really, its that embarrassing.
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An Analysis of Team 1: A Panda Inspectors Journey into the Scum World
LSB
On September 20 2010 01:03 LSB wrote:
The main problem with Incognito's plan is that the existence of a DT and a Medic is not guaranteed.
I really like the DT/Medic Idea, I'm just wondering, do you have any other games where you tried out this plan?
Also, in reality, if we mess up, we might only have one night. Two days of mislynch would make us lose. If the medic is able to protect one person, that buys us another day. Shouldn't the list be hidden so the medic has a better chance of protecting someone?
Here we see the first meaningful post by LSB. Brings up several valid points. Its later refuted by Incognito but I might have well thought the same.
+1 for LSB
On September 20 2010 09:33 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 08:52 Incognito wrote:On September 20 2010 01:03 LSB wrote:
The main problem with Incognito's plan is that the existence of a DT and a Medic is not guaranteed.
I really like the DT/Medic Idea, I'm just wondering, do you have any other games where you tried out this plan?
Also, in reality, if we mess up, we might only have one night. Two days of mislynch would make us lose. If the medic is able to protect one person, that buys us another day. Shouldn't the list be hidden so the medic has a better chance of protecting someone? You probably didn't read the whole way through my post. Anyway, basically mafia must always act as if there are DTs/Medics unless they want to screw themselves over. In this case, the threat holds weight even if the execution is impossible to carry out because the mafia can't know whether or not the threat is real. Town, on the other hand, shouldn't really care about if its possible or not. That's something the mafia has to worry about. I don't have any other games where this has been tried. But why is that relevant? In reference to your last question, I'll quote Foolishness here: Yes I did read your post. I understand that the mafia will have to act, that why I like your idea. The main problem is that in order to implement the plan, we will have to use the blue roles in a way that they won't be actively hunting/blocking the mafia. The DT will be checking the bottom of the list of activity/people not contributing right? Mafia knows that and will contribute The Medic will be protecting the top of the list of activity right? The mafia won't hit there. I'm just concerned about what cost we have to pay for activity. You now mention that the Medics/DT may or may not follow the plan, and it's all psychological. Mafia knows this too, and then the plan crumbles since the mafia will assume that the Medics/DT will not follow it. Rock paper sizzors
This quote makes me slightly suspicious. If in the previous post he says the main problem was that the existence of a dt and medic are not guranteed, then why does he say now that he knows that isn't a problem? Contradictions are not good! And then again, he says he liked the plan, but now he's bringing up several concerns. Again, this is possible of a townie and should be down, but why didn't he say it in the first post? Doesn't mean he's guilty(could have thought of it later) but definitely suspicious.
In this post he also uses several erroneous logic, such as the last sentence.
alright, so medics may or may not follow the plan(but probably will.) But LSB turns this around and says Mafia will then assume they will not follow it, and will ignore that.
That logic is illogical!
On September 21 2010 03:58 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 16:00 Incognito wrote:
First off, LSB. In TL Mafia XXX we saw LSB the planner. Throughout all the discussion from day 1, multiple plans get proposed and shot down. LSB participated in the discussion and tried to come up with a better plan. It turns out that the town used his plan in the end. While it was flawed, this game shows that LSB as town actively contributes to the town discussion and tries to move the game forward/improve the town's situation. In PYP2, LSB didn't take such a pronounced role in the town, but still supported Radfield's plan/stated why it was fairly solid even though there could be some flaws. LSB ended up picking traitor that game, but since he was town before the role picks it cannot be assumed that he was playing the game with a mafia mindset. Okay, obviously you haven’t played with me much. Mafia XXX was my rookie game, and it had some exceptional circumstances. First of all, it had lots of varied blue roles. That way planning was possible. On the other hand, Kor is following E9+1 townie. This setup is made so it isn’t able to be broken. It is slightly town favored. Simply put, there is no plan that is optimal because we do not know the existence of blue roles. Secondly, PYP I supported the plan because it was solid. I did not support your plan because it’s mafia favoredAlso, what happened to my Penalty mafia, and my RAM mafia games? To call me a planner in those games is laughable. Show nested quote +
In this game, LSB's activity is way down. Looking at his first substantial post, he speculates on why South could have been put on divinek/bum's team. The second post is more telling. First sentence he immediately casts doubt upon my proposal. Really, that first sentence isn't a problem with my plan, as I have addressed the non-existence of a DT/medic already. The sentence in itself doesn't necessarily say anything about alignment. Once I point out this erroneous logic however, he says he really did read my post and switches what he claims is the "main problem". This time, instead of pointing to the non-existence of DT/medic, he says blue actions will be wasted and that DT/medic won't follow the plan so its all circular logic and won't work. A valid criticism, but different from the previous criticism.
First, could you answer this question? Show nested quote + I really like the DT/Medic Idea, I'm just wondering, do you have any other games where you tried out this plan? I want to read other games where this plan works. I don’t know how you got this to be stir the pot. What part of Show nested quote +Also, in reality, if we mess up, we might only have one night. Two days of mislynch would make us lose. If the medic is able to protect one person, that buys us another day. Shouldn't the list be hidden so the medic has a better chance of protecting someone? Do you not get? Where is the erroneous logic? I admit, the DT I thought of later, that is why I turned against your plan. Because it really is mafia favored. Show nested quote + In both of these posts, what does LSB propose to fix these? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. In both posts, he criticizes the plan and expresses his "concern" for the flaws. This is definitely not typical LSB behavior. LSB asks if I have an example game where this idea has been used. Relevance? I think there's none. LSB is just trying to stir the pot here. Since when have I proposed fixes for broken plans? There are no fixes, we junk the plan and move on. Your acting like a baby, crying that your toy is broken, throwing a tantrum because other people can’t fix it Show nested quote + Another interesting post is when LSB states the two accusations that have been made and then says he doesn't like either of them. Its a neutral statement that says nothing. Very uncharacteristic for someone who often gives input and opinion when innocent. To say those posts were serious accusations that deserved input would be flat out lies
Here we start to see some definite scum vibes. Aside from verbally assaulting Incognito, this tone is very aggressive, and makes a very important false assumption without ever backing it up.
But let's analyze it further. What does this post do?
1. Tries to cast doubt on Incognito and toss him aside as (bluntly) a "crackpot."
a."Your acting like a baby crying that your toy is broken, throwing a tantrum because other people can't fix it."
b."I don’t know how you got this to be stir the pot."
2.Tries to cast this plan aside as "mafia favored" without ever trying to back that false assumption up.
And what does he offer? How does he try to help the town? We've seen in other games the numerous times he's gone above and beyond to help the town(LSB plan in XXX, recently in RAM).
But what is his thing now?
"There are no fixes, we junk the plan and move on."
And he never offered a new one.
On September 21 2010 04:08 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 02:15 BrownBear wrote:There's a bit of an interesting dynamic starting to come out here. On September 20 2010 15:30 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
That's all SR ever posts. I don't think he posts any better when townie. I think he thinks he is contributing a lot but... he just manages to state the obvious and make it mind bangingly esoteric. Very unnerving. This could be a slip, or it could be Pyrry trying to gently suggest SR as mafia to us. This early in the game, I would be astonished if Pyrry slipped up that spectacularly, so I think he's trying to plant the SR-scum idea in our heads (inception?). That's not a slip up. We are pretty certain that team 2 is mafia. I just want a few more posts from them.
Very important. Suggests they have been thinking about this, and are pretty certain. But note later how poor the argument is.
On September 21 2010 04:16 LSB wrote:
Okay, I believe it is essential to use the No Lynch.
The No Lynch will give the Mafia another kill. But at the same time, it gives us another DT check, it gives us another Medic protection. (Assuming they exist).
And it won’t actually shorten lylo date. With or without No lynch, we have 2 mislynchs till we lose. It doesn’t change
I’m not saying we have to use it now. I’m just saying, if we don’t use it today, we should use it tomorrow. That way we can take advantage of the No-Lynch benefits.
repeats stuff people have already brought up, says the obvious. Doesn't contribute.
Notice a trend: LSB isn't helping the town, he's just bringing down plans, casting doubt, and defending himself.
On September 21 2010 10:14 LSB wrote:Overview: The entire Divinek/Southrawrea/Bumatalarge team was incredibly unhelpful. This isn’t like Zeks, who just lurks all the time. Divinek, Southrawrea, and Bumatalarge usually at least make the effort to help. It’s strange why none of them are doing that right now. Addon: Bumatalarge’s second post is actually pretty helpful. Conclusion: Not as sure as before, before I was going off of the "This can't be a coincidence. Once is a accidence, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action". This could just be South and Divinek. If Bum didn't make his second post, I would have immediatly voted for him. Anyways, I'll still post my thoughts Divinek + Show Spoiler +Firstly I'm looking at Divinek's actions actions in Callers game. (He is anti-town, dunno the full story yet) Did a few accusations, nothing major. Was more of a bandwagoner The main thing is, he doesn't defend himself much. He just tries to laugh things off. He also ignored my accusations in Penalty mafia (He was mafia). Likewise in Penalty mafia he was a bandwagoner. So look for: Laugh accusations off, bandwagons The main thing is, it seems that he is jumping to defend himself at the littlest things now, small accusations that are extremely far fetched. On September 19 2010 11:40 meeple wrote:
I'm wondering if Korynne would put Southrawrea into a group of reds... I don't think she picked that group by random and also wondering if having a group of three is more or less "powerful" than having a group of 2. ^random speculation On September 19 2010 14:38 Divinek wrote:
i have no idea why he's on our team tbh, im assuming it has something to do with the power of greyskull. Divinek immediately jumps on this, and does his laugh it off defense. Also another defense On September 20 2010 01:57 Pandain wrote:
In addition, who do we lynch today? Well, i'm starting to think we should lynch one of South, Divinek, or Bumatlarge. Lynching one will confirm the two others, helping us in future scum hunting and decision. If mafia try to take these confirmed out, its alright, because they aren't exactly "vets" and it'll take two turns for mafia to finish them off. However, I sort of doubt they'll go for them as they'll probably go for the vets themselves. I immediately shot that idea down On September 20 2010 01:59 LSB wrote:
Just FYI, we lynch a team, rather than just one person. And I felt that conversation should have ended right there. To my surprise, Divinek suddenly posts On September 20 2010 05:49 Divinek wrote:
what do you mean lynching one of us will confirm us lol? if you kill one person of a team im pretty sure alignment doesnt flip, if that's even what you're getting at because you don't make it clear, that'd be pretty ridiculous. I've got my eye on you as always pandain!
I can't find it in the rules, but that's how it's been in the past...
Divinek should know that the whole team gets killed. He was lynched day two in the first TMM game. Obviously this idea has been destroyed already, since I pointed out that it wouldn’t work as per the rules, but why does Divinek suddenly try to offer a random explanation? I can only think that he is paranoid. Now, you might say that town defend themselves and this doesn’t mean anything. But these are the only posts that Divinek makes. He hasn’t contributed anything at all.That also mean that Divinek hasn’t been attempting to bandwagon people yet, but that’s because there has been no real attacking post yet. Divinek 2 + Show Spoiler +Later on Divinek makes this post On September 21 2010 05:38 Divinek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 04:54 Infundibulum wrote:On September 21 2010 04:08 LSB wrote:On September 21 2010 02:15 BrownBear wrote:There's a bit of an interesting dynamic starting to come out here. On September 20 2010 15:30 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
That's all SR ever posts. I don't think he posts any better when townie. I think he thinks he is contributing a lot but... he just manages to state the obvious and make it mind bangingly esoteric. Very unnerving. This could be a slip, or it could be Pyrry trying to gently suggest SR as mafia to us. This early in the game, I would be astonished if Pyrry slipped up that spectacularly, so I think he's trying to plant the SR-scum idea in our heads (inception?). That's not a slip up. We are pretty certain that team 2 is mafia. I just want a few more posts from them. What makes you think so? I'm curious, because Team 2 isn't on my radar right now for mafia. The way I see it - Bumatlarge seems drunk, Divinek made one post where he completely misunderstood how the game works, and SR talked about the merits of lynch vs no lynch. none of this says 'mafia' to me. yeah pandain had me confused into thinking players got lynched instead of teams lol. It's probably his scum jedi mind tricks at work. Bum wasn't drunk that's just his accent coming through in his posts. And SR has always been really good at posting really poorly. I would be all in favour of no lynching day 1, i mean why not use it on the day where we have the least information to go on? We'll still gain something as there will be a nk, or a medic protect to stop it or maybe even a DT check or something. But instead of throwing around wild allegations (which alot of people seem to be doing) i would much rather not kill an innocent today, which is what 95% to happen on day1? and go with a no lynch so ##vote no lynch This seems consistent, he’s defending himself. Also, since Team 2 is the team that’s getting the most votes right now, he can’t bandwagon that, he’ll go for the next best option, no lynch SouthRawrea + Show Spoiler +Okay, as town, he is pretty hard to understand. I played with him in PyP, and I just ignored his posts because they took to long to read through, and then I find that he’s making lots of assumptions At the same time though, he always put his two cents in. On September 20 2010 09:32 SouthRawrea wrote:
So this is a really basic game of mafia. If the scenario is 2 mafia 6 townies, we're best of lynching from day 1, no buts or ifs. If we have only have a doctor the scenario is the same, lynch from day 1. The only difference is that we have a better chance of survival. The thing about a cop only scenario is that if mafia claims cop and the real cop counterclaims, we'll end up in a scenario where we'll have 1 mafia, 3 townies with the cop most likely dead. We'll most likely have 1 confirmed, 2 townies and 1 mafia at the end in which case we have a 1/3 shot at winning. Now what the mafia has to be careful of is if we have both a cop and a doctor in which case our chances of winning rise significantly because we'll be able to protect the confirmed cop after we realize that we were duped by the mafia fakecop. Now our two possible options are: 1) Lynch right away or 2) Wait a day for a possible guilty report and proceed to lynch regardless if cop outs himself. If we lynch right away for a scenario where we have a cop, we have a slight chance of outting our cop but it's nothing significant. In the end because we end the game on a mylo, it won't make a difference. However if we wait a day in a situation where we do not have a cop, it'll reduce our chances of winning. It doesn't really matter what we choose to do because we don't the setup of the game.
TL;DR We can choose NL or Lynch but it all depends on which of the game setups we have. Since we don't know which one it is, it doesn't matter which we pick. Translation: It doesn’t matter what we do. This is very unhelpful. He makes a long post just to say nothing at all. On September 20 2010 10:04 SouthRawrea wrote:
I'd like to echo Foolishness's point and say that my take on this game is that it's almost 100% scumhunting. There's a 50% shot at there being a cop and Korynne is unwilling to release any information not included in the OP. (Usually though, medics can't protect themselves) This limits any plans that we may have especially because we don't know the setup and we may not be able to investigate.
Alternatively, Korynne may be setting up a game where we can look for clues with his/her posts to perhaps find the mafia or who's innocent.
Also: EBWOP for my earlier post. I didn't realize that we couldn't NL. I overlooked Korynne's post.
Anyhow, posting is good because we actually have nothing to work with other than posts at this point in time and possibly for the entire game. Again, he doesn’t say anything besides we should play as normal This isn’t putting his two cents in. This is simply just posting random stuff so it looks like he’s active On September 21 2010 04:43 SouthRawrea wrote:
So you're saying I'm posting nothing when really what I'm doing is making a post that shows that there is really no plan that we can come up with? Then pray, tell me what sort of content-filled posts you can make this early in the game? @Pyrr Okay, now he explains his posts, he’s saying that it’s impossible to make a plan. At the same time though, Incogs plan already declared that the existence of a cop is moot, all we need is the intimidation factor. Although I don’t agree with Incog’s plan, SouthRawrea’s post completely ignores this. At the same time, to try to prove that we can’t make a plan? That seems incredibly anti-town. A good plan wins the town games. To try persuade us that we can’t make a plan seems pretty scummy. Bumatlarge (Now seems pro town) + Show Spoiler +On September 21 2010 04:52 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 04:08 LSB wrote:On September 21 2010 02:15 BrownBear wrote:There's a bit of an interesting dynamic starting to come out here. On September 20 2010 15:30 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
That's all SR ever posts. I don't think he posts any better when townie. I think he thinks he is contributing a lot but... he just manages to state the obvious and make it mind bangingly esoteric. Very unnerving. This could be a slip, or it could be Pyrry trying to gently suggest SR as mafia to us. This early in the game, I would be astonished if Pyrry slipped up that spectacularly, so I think he's trying to plant the SR-scum idea in our heads (inception?). That's not a slip up. We are pretty certain that team 2 is mafia. I just want a few more posts from them. If you're certain why aren't you trying hard to convince the rest of us they are scum? I wanted to see what Bum would write. He really hasn’t posted anything. And there’s no way to tell if he’s busy, or if he is lurking. Bum then posts a pretty pro town post On September 21 2010 08:20 bumatlarge wrote:
I only had a minute to throw a post out, and I'd rather not stay quiet. Dont think I said much game-breaking stuff.
Uh medic can protect themself? Would it be possible to get them to claim, since mafia really doesnt want to risk a mis-hit. If medic claims, RNG's protecting themselves or someone else we could get some info, and Im not really sure mafia would be willing to false-claim by chance we have a medic team, and then we are guaranteed a scum lynch by day 2. It kinda confirms them... no? But we should set up an exact tiem for them to roleclaim so we dont have some gimmicky 'oh i didnt see im medic lol. If no one says anything, we know we dont have a med, or they choose to keep quiet.
Thoughts? I like the idea, basically we get a tree stump, that can vote, and someone is confirmed. That could clear up a lot of confusion. I don’t see a better role for the medic. As to answer Pandian, I’d like to see a confirmed townie more than a random chance of the medic protecting themselves. Math wise, the mafia has a 33% chance of hitting the medic during the two nights. And I don't count on stuff with less than half a chance of success
Here's his accusation. What started as "we're pretty certain team 2 is mafia" amounted to "well maybe they are mafia, i don't know" and was just useless. Add to that how poor the logic is, and see my response on how false this argument was.
On September 21 2010 10:19 LSB wrote:
At the same time though... having the medic protect himself does seem like a great way to be able to safely snipe off the active players.
Wow... in addition to the fact that it could be the active players that are medic, he's again not contributing, but only destroying! Where's the heroic LSB that always helps the town and contributes, with cool graphs and stuff. It's noticably absent.
On September 22 2010 07:59 LSB wrote:
I'm sorry if you guys thought I had this perfectly worked out. But it was more of on how people are acting, and I was getting this wierd vibe once I was looking into the posts.
The reason why I didn't want to make a giant post that early was that I wanted to hear from Bum. But a lot of people wanted to hear what I said, so I just posted what I had.
As you can see with my post, I then changed my thoughts. I was thinking that Bum was intentionally lurking, but with his 2nd post, I'm not so sure that he is.
I was really concerned that the entire team was acting strangely. I’m still watching them of course, but Bum kindof disproves that idea.
I really like Bum's plan and support it. Medic should protect themselves.
The main problem is what if we accidentally accuse the medic?
There are two solutions:
1) Medic claims beforehand. This way we automatically know who is medic
2) Medic claims after he is accused. The problem is what if mafia claims too? There is no way we would know if that the medic is mafia or not.
Solution: Medic should claim Day2, because that’s when we are going to start the lynching. By doing a no lynch day 1, the medic has a chance of taking a hit.
this post IS scum. Just look at it, its an entire apology to there horrendus accusation of team 2. First of all, "I got weird vibes" does not equal to what you said earlier "we are pretty certain team 2 is mafia." How can you know day 1 if someone is intentionally lurking? This whole post does not makes sense!
In addition, he wants medic to claim day 2, which is incrediably stupid, since it follows the whole "stump idea", which is just stupid, since a confirmed townie does nothing at all, since we aren't even sure they are confirmed(could be mafia.)
So here's his first contribution: An anti town plan
Next post.
On September 22 2010 08:20 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 17:36 Incognito wrote:
Its not just his actions, its his mindset. If you read over LSB's posts, all his posts are neutral and he never takes a stand. Its not easy for anyone to pinpoint what LSB supports because he doesn't support anything. And that's the point. Mafia don't want to take an active stance because then they have to defend it. Mafia would like to sit on the fence so that nobody can hold them responsible for their actions while subtly working to subvert town goals. Town has nothing to lose by taking sides. Now looking at LSB's past games, he takes sides as town. He is decisive and actively contributes to the town while openly attempting to convince others of his view. On the other hand, this game LSB does not take sides. He is not decisive, and only points out flaws. Is he attempting to convince others to follow his point of view? No, he doesn't have one. LSB is not interested in the town's welfare. He wants to create the appearance of pro-town activity by pointing out the flaws in my plan while using neutral language and doing nothing to help town. As for the things I'm supporting 1) No lynch. 2) Bum's medic plan Show nested quote +This post attempts to derail the focus on LSB's scumminess by setting up straw men and refusing to directly refute my accusations. LSB says he didn't make a plan because the game setup is not exploitable. While this may be true, this does not address the motives behind LSB's actions. LSB is refuting the planning aspect of his play. I am attacking the motives behind his play, namely that as town he takes stances and tries to work for the town's benefit. The thing is, if I was mafia, I would be supporting an erronous plan, trying to get the town to take part of a plan that is easily exploitable. A great way to do that is to support your plan! Your plan has problems. Strangely you haven't address these problems. Right now you are saying, "LSB seems skummy, so therefore I don't need to worry about the holes in my plan". That isn't logic, that's misdirection. Show nested quote +The erroneous logic is in the
"oh no what happens if a DT/medic doesn't exist" question, not the no lynch issue. Stop trying to appear all innocent and beating around the bush. I'll repeat myself: We should use the DT and the Medic in the places where they will be most effective. The Medic should focus on making sure that someone doesn't die. And the DT should be used to try to investigate targets. I don't like the list idea, since it tells the mafia what to stay out of. Again, please address this problem. Tell me why I am wrong, don't just make a long post on why I'm supposed mafia to distract others from seeing that your plan has a problem. Show nested quote +If there are no fixes, you junk the plan an move on. Valid. But you didn't move on. You junked the plan, and promptly disappeared. The most plausible reason why you did that is because you are mafia.
I don't have this list of possible plans in my pocket and try to use them. If I think of something, I'll use it sure. I moved on of course, chiefly no lynch once we figured out that it could be used. Show nested quote +To say those posts were serious accusations that deserved input would be flat out lies Again, I'm not saying your statement was a lie. I'm saying that the motiviations for your post are shaky. Everyone reading this post should be looking at the subjective question of why LSB is posting the way he is. Reading LSB's posts at face value isn't going to get us anywhere. Its not a matter of lie or truth. Its a matter of what seems realistic given the mindset of the poster. What I am saying is that your accusations twist my words. You admit that you can't read my posts at face value because if you do, you'll find that I'm a townie. You now are relying on the fact that I haven't taken any positions? What positions are you accusing me of not taking on? Planning: You claim that I haven't made a plan. Therefore I am Mafia. Thats just silly. I'm not going to make a plan unless I think of one. Ace/BM is scumYou said that I didn't give enough input into the Ace/BM lynch. Well, I don't feel like I should. Because I think there're town Rastaban/Foolishness is scum: You said that I didn't give enough input into the Rastaban/Foolishness lynch. Well, I don't feel like I should. So you expect me to 1) Pull out plans or die, or 2) Accuse random people. <sarcasm>Sounds townie to me </sarcasm> Show nested quote +
LSB's recent "analysis" on Team 2 cannot be considered a natural pro-town sign since he only posted it under pressure from 3 people. So don't use this as an excuse for why you're town. It won't work.
I would have liked more time to see what Bum would do, and how SR would play this game. But like you said, people wanted me to post. So I did, and I said that I didn't really think that they were mafia since new posts didn't fit with my general theory.
Unfortunately, Incognito didn't exactly point out the best reasons why LSB is scum, which gave LSB some wiggle room. But even in this post we can find evidence of scum.
Alright, you support No lynch(I wonder why?! Maybe because you're the ones getting lynched???) and Bum's medic plan(which isn't that much. and is actually a bad plan, as I've pointed out.)
So really, you have no real "decisions" on someone. Even team 6, who you're voting, you've hardly given any reasons why besides "general inactivity" and RoL definitely isn't inactive.
Again, he's still going along with "Incognito's plan is scummy" without saying why.
It just doesn't make sense!
On September 22 2010 08:57 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 08:50 Pandain wrote:
No you silly mongoose, you don't understand. You see, if we had medic claim he would have to protect himself. And then mafia would know to avoid him. Now, so what are the benefits of this?
1. We have confirmed townie(or mafia, so this isn't even that good.) We know not to lynch him.
But if he just protects himself without saying anything, then it will still have the same benefits but mafia won't know to avoid him, therefore we have the possibility of drawing hits into medic protection.
Medic claiming is just a useless tidbit that will help mafia. Ya I understand that the mafia would avoid him. But what if we are lynching someone, and then he suddenly claims that he's a medic? That's a big problem Anyways, when you think about it, the medic doesn't have that much nights with his ability (in the worst case senario). Of course, I could just be a pessimist with all my worst case senario thinking. Show nested quote +
Also, you got me killed because "I had no plan" that game, even though that setup was worse for plans!(no role information whatsoever) So shut that "Well we can't make plans"
I killed you because your plan was a mafia plan + Show Spoiler +On September 08 2010 07:40 LSB wrote:Reason 4) Pro mafia plans Show nested quote +On September 06 2010 02:50 Pandain wrote:
So here's what I say we do:
We make no accusations, whatsover. We let the NSVD work his way through checking everybody and then go with what he says. However, I'm thinking the NSVD should only claim like maybe after finding 2 scum(maybe even after checking everyone? n.n).
Than we lynch. The only problem I can see is that if there is a mafia role involving killing someone. I already PMed Caller and mafia themselves do not have the ability to kill someone. But roles are hidden so they might very well have a role that can kill people at night.
Either way, waiting at least until this day ends will both help stop an unnecessary death and let us wait until we see if the mafia have any really dangerous roles. This is an extremely mafia idea, Pandain wants us just to sit around waiting. This is always really bad relying soley on one person who may or may not be alive/in-existance. Pandain then changes his plan to "lets kill all inactives". Good idea, but most of the time, (ie 99% of the time) inactive are greens that don't feel the motivation to post because their role isn't 'cool'. It's good for the mafia as all the mafia has to do is stay active, and boom, a whole bunch of day kills go off ##Accusation: Pandian
Mafia can always claim a blue role to avoid being lynched, that's not something new. Claiming medic on day 2 won't solve that either. And my plan wasn't neccesarily anti town in that game(I shouldn't have been lynched gosh dang it!) but that's a different story, and irrelevant.
On September 23 2010 09:51 LSB wrote:Response to Incogs post Plans + Show Spoiler +On September 22 2010 14:47 Incognito wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 08:20 LSB wrote:
The thing is, if I was mafia, I would be supporting an erronous plan, trying to get the town to take part of a plan that is easily exploitable. A great way to do that is to support your plan!
Your plan has problems. Strangely you haven't address these problems. Right now you are saying, "LSB seems skummy, so therefore I don't need to worry about the holes in my plan". That isn't logic, that's misdirection. Sorry, but "my plan" isn't easily exploitable as mafia. Yeah, the people not on the DT/Medic list will be considered "safe" from mafia POV, but I'd rather lose someone useless than someone useful. You're also missing the point. You're crying because you want me to address my "plan". Let me quote you again, Remember saying that? Thought so. Why is it that all of a sudden you want to refocus on my plan? Not going to fall for that one, buddy. You are falsly saying that I don't understand your plan, but in reality, you don't understand my problem with your plan. My problem with your plan is that the mafia can hide easily in it. What’s your response? 1) Start accusing me for not helping your plan 2) Start accusing me for not seeing why your plan is so “Pro town” 3) Make up a fake argument, say it's mine, and then claim that 'my' argument sucks 4) When I address 2+3, you start accusing me for talking about plans This is just getting silly and out of hand My Mentality: + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 08:20 LSB wrote:
You now are relying on the fact that I haven't taken any positions?
What positions are you accusing me of not taking on?
Planning: You claim that I haven't made a plan. Therefore I am Mafia. Thats just silly. I'm not going to make a plan unless I think of one.
Ace/BM is scumYou said that I didn't give enough input into the Ace/BM lynch. Well, I don't feel like I should. Because I think there're town
Rastaban/Foolishness is scum: You said that I didn't give enough input into the Rastaban/Foolishness lynch. Well, I don't feel like I should.
So you expect me to 1) Pull out plans or die, or 2) Accuse random people. <sarcasm>Sounds townie to me </sarcasm> You are setting up a straw man here. Your "positions" are not meaningful. I am not accusing you for your lack of planning per se, but your lack of pro-town mindset. Your posts show apathy. Your posts say "hi I'm contributing" even though its clear you're not. You don't want to say anything about the Ace/BM lynch because you think they're town? Why didn't you say that? All you said was "Ace/BM: This isn't a real accusation. More like Bill Murray Foe on Sight". Sorry, but I don't read "I think they're town" into that statement. You don't want to say anything about Foolishness/Rasta? Why? Instead of saying "these lynches are stupid", a townsperson would be trying to create discussion. In your case, you are just trying to kill it. So I should have tried to get BM lynched? Sorry, I don't push dumb things. Wrong again. I don't expect you to do either of those necessarily. I expect you to be pro-town and generate content, stimulate discussion, take a stand, and try to get the ball rolling. Trying to make plans fits into those categories. Sitting around doing nothing does not. Its not that "oh noes LSB isn't plan making thus he is mafia!", its that "LSB normally shows interest in moving the town forward and generating discussion, this game he's not, and thus he is mafia!". See the difference? Take interest in moving the town forward. You've done none of that this game unless under pressure. A lot of the day 1 accusations are baseless. We don't stop people from discussing them because we need stuff to talk about. Its fine if you try to cut off that discussion point, but only if you provide something else better. Frankly you are saying that I should bandwagon and accuse random people. I only accuse someone when I am absolutely sure. I was formulating an accusation, but people wanted it too early. As you can see, I ended up junking my accusations due to Bum's posts Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 08:20 LSB wrote:
I would have liked more time to see what Bum would do, and how SR would play this game. But like you said, people wanted me to post. So I did, and I said that I didn't really think that they were mafia since new posts didn't fit with my general theory. No, you posted that you were certain Team 2 was mafia after I accused you. You may have honestly been waiting to see what Bum would do, but I can't prove that. Context tells me that its more plausible you just pulled that out of a hat to divert attention from yourself. I don't think any straight thinking townie is going to take your accusation at face value at this point. If you really want to look pro-town, start doing some straight up analysis. It has to be good analysis too. It has to be so good, that I'd rather lynch your target over you. Yeah, and once I start doing straight up analysis, your going to accuse me of taking your bait and being scum. Your going to call this your 'trap'. Good thing I put in this paragraph. Sure I’ll post analysis once I figure out something. But it’s not going to be because I’m trying to appease you. It’s because I’m going to try to take down the mafia.
Wait, was this your opposition to Incognitos plan? Mafia can hide in it, therefore it is favored towards mafia? Incognitos plan is common sense, medics will always protect the active pro town, and detectives will always check scummy people. If your opposed to common sense and what blues usually do, I don't know what to tell you. In addition, you keep saying "I'll post something helpful if I think of it" YET YOU HAVEN'T ALL GAME
Note all he's done in the past like 10 posts is defend himself. He hasn't done anything else other than bring down plans, without contributing, and leading astray the town. This is not the pro town LSB we know, or the pro town Townie that should be him.
On September 24 2010 07:50 LSB wrote:I am against the Meeple lynch Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 16:24 Incognito wrote:On September 23 2010 10:59 meeple wrote:
odd choice for mafia... people seem to have a grudge against them
Now comes the analysis of their posts knowing that they were town. Wow. This coming from you is hillarious. As if you're trying to downplay the fact that Ace was suspicious of you. Its not an "odd" choice for you to kill the team that agreed with the scumminess of YOUR team and Team 1. I'm 100% positive you didn't miss the part where Ace accused you. Notice how meeple says "Now comes the analysis of their posts knowing that they were town", while doing nothing to analyze them. Analyzing a dead person's post is easy. Meeple, however, doesn't want to do this because he has no interest in exposing the fact that Ace agreed with my reads. Meeple is not walking the talk. This should raise red flags for everyone. I don’t believe you gave him that much time. Meeple did do analysis of Ace, after your post. He possibly could be busy and needed to do something else. So I dug through the posts where Ace mentioned Yellowink and Meeple And I found a post + Show Spoiler + On September 22 2010 09:33 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 06:43 YellowInk wrote:
At this point I believe that the mafia are among teams 1, 3, 5, and 6. I do not know precisely who, but at this stage of the day, hanging team 1 still makes sense. Ace, I was getting the same feeling initially about the bandwagoning onto team 1, but then I looked carefully at who was and wasn't on board with the team 1 vote and realized that just about everyone who was on the team 1 vote I already had a feeling of being pro town. The most suspect people have pushed the no lynch.
The recent argument made against no lynch was under the assumption of no medic saves. Consider what occurs if you have 1 medic save: we gain an entire day! In a typical game, a single medic save does not gain us a day. Using the no lynch here would lose us the day that a medic save could gain us.
No lynch is for endgame situations only. Hang team 1. No it isn't. This post is blatantly misleading. No lynching is for when you can't conclude someone is scummy enough to lynch. Like I've said, the town does not have to lynch every day. So most of the time it's in your best bet to No lynch unless you are in a situation where there is clearly going to be a benefit. Being in the end game does not matter for a No lynch, all it means is that you're decision has a more immediate consequence but it's also easier. Towards the end of the game it is actually much rarer to have a No lynch. Remember what I said? It's in your best bet to avoid a lynch when you aren't sure someone is scum or there is no clear benefit. At the end of the game you have so much information between votes, player interaction, the knowledge of what roles have been revealed and your own ties to players that it's really not often you'll be No lynching then. In a typical game a single medic save gaining you a day is false. Saving a player and them possibly being confirmed innocent is a pretty big deal don't you think? It may not directly add more days to your win condition but adding more players to the likely pro-town pool, that TWO players know about is pretty heartbreaking for scum once it's revealed. Using a No Lynch now would actually be the best bet...if this were 10 hours ago and this was a normal setup with infinite No Lynches. Clearly though, LSB has been posting god knows what and well I'm a little intrigued by this post of yours. I thought you were a good player so how could you actually believe this nonsense you just posted? The only thing worrying me is that Incognito seems to have pegged both your teams also which shows his scumdar is operating on great batteries like mine, or he's just good at picking off easy townies. So I'm going to ask you this one time: Let's assume you were a detective. What team would you investigate tonight and why? I don’t see an accusation of scummyness from Ace, all I see is say ridiculing YellowInk for being a “bad player” Ace said he was unsure on whether or not Incog was right. Ace didn’t agree with Incog yet. Show nested quote +
Killing Ace/BM is convenient if Team 1 and Team 7 are mafia. Mafia killing Ace/BM is equal to killing a less vocal and aggressive version of me/Infundibulum. It eliminates the only Team who agreed with me that Team 1 and 7 are scum right now. Which means I lose a supporter and need to work even harder to try to accomplish my goals. I think everyone would agree that I would be more likely to receive a medic prot than Ace. I'm guessing mafia took this into consideration and decided it was easier and safer to effectively cripple my steamrolling machine by sniping the quieter supporter. Now I have to find yet another vote to help me get them lynched. Real convenient, huh?
Team 7 is mafia. Analysis coming up in a few.
Again, you assume that Ace agreed with you. What Ace said is that either 1) Incog is good at finding mafia. Or 2) Incog is mafia and good at killing townies, by painting them as scum from a 'slipup' Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 18:52 Incognito wrote:A few posts back, I noted Pyrr's defense of YellowInk: On September 22 2010 05:52 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:On September 22 2010 05:39 Incognito wrote:This post is interesting. YI wants to avoid a situation where town is divided with votes? That's interesting, since usually town gains more information from close votes...note how he splits his vote from his own team mate. I think he is worried because if the votes are split between two teams it is likely the mafia will be able to save the guilty one, if one of the two are guilty. My original post states that YellowInk's behavior is "interesting". My comment also implies that this "interesting" behavior is suspicious. In this post, Pyrr is being apologetic about YellowInk's behavior and is trying to justify it. Why is this weird? First of all, Pyrr hasn't really been directly defending people other than himself. In this post, he defends YellowInk directly, theorizing why YI would behave in such a way. Pyrr hasn't been defending anyone directly (although he has been saying we should give people time to respond before accusing aggressively (which in essence is its own type of defense)), yet pops up out of the blue to defend YellowInk. The most plausible reason why Pyrr did this is because YI is his other mafia teammate. Furthermore, in my original post, I merely stated that YI's behavior was "interesting". But Pyrr feels a need to defend YI preemptively. The are other possible reasons why Pyrr did this (like, he wanted to clarify a possibility), but these possibilities are improbable. Pyrr hasn't really been the clarifying type this game. He has had a far greater role raising questions about other teams: namely, Teams 2 and 6, and all of a sudden he pops up to clarify what someone was thinking? This is an out of place defense and certainly warrants heavy suspicion. Finally, the circumstances under which Pyrr defended YellowInk are out of place. Look at the posts of Pyrr and YellowInk and their relation to one another. On page 17, YellowInk says that he agrees with what people (presumably me?) had to say about Team 1's scumminess. He follows that with a vote on Team 1. He never changes that vote. Two pages later is Pyrr's post defending YellowInk. Pyrr is defending YellowInk even though YellowInk is voting for him. Now just think about that for a moment. Why would you defend someone who has voted for you? It doesn't make sense to defend someone who voted for you if you were a townie. The only reason why you would do that is if BOTH PLAYERS ARE MAFIA. Pyrr's defense of YellowInk confirms my suspicion that YellowInk didn't really want to lynch Pyrr and used meeple's no-lynch to effectively neutralize his vote. Pyrr wants to support YellowInk but overlooks the fact that YellowInk voted for him. Oh well, I'm happy with two easy mafia. [Vote]Team 7Main Point: 1) Pyrr slipped up. He defended someone out of the blue when there was no direct attack involved. He defended someone who voted for him. 2) Team 1 is mafia3) Team 7 is mafia Um that’s not a defense. That’s a possible explanation. Pyrr explained it quite well + Show Spoiler +On September 23 2010 20:19 Divinek wrote:
totally buy the argument. Especially for team 7, what else is there to say other than it makes overwhelming sense. There's all kind of WIFOM shit people can throw into this but that slip up is pretty LOL. Cause i know i hate people that vote for me, or even attack me ie LSB, and so on so it's quite easy reasoning to follow
baa baaa
##vote team 7
Bandwagoning?
Here is the first "contributive" post in which he really makes a stand. Except even then it just amounts to "maybe he didn't get enough time. " Horrible argument, and all the while it seems like his main point is getting people to distrust Incognito.
On September 24 2010 08:49 LSB wrote:Intresting... I agree its strange how Team 7 is accusing team 6. It's probably their trying to draw the heat off of themselves. Anyways I haven't played with Meeple before, so I can't say much, but I went through this game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=128918Meeple was townie, and he wasn't a big contributor and didn't make much (if any) stands
Way to contradict with your previous post, and the post itself!
On September 25 2010 06:08 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 17:10 Incognito wrote:Relevant section of Ace's post here: The only thing worrying me is that Incognito seems to have pegged both your teams also which shows his scumdar is operating on great batteries like mine, or he's just good at picking off easy townies. Key word also. This means Ace pegged your teams too. Ace shows his cards here. He agrees that Team 1/7 are scummy. The way he phrases it shows that he independently arrived at his conclusion too and is not just sheepishly agreeing with me. I'm not assuming anything. I'm just stating facts. The facts are: Ace pegged your teams. Ace's death makes perfect sense when you see this fact. You ignored the second half of the sentence. I am seriously having doubts on whether or not you are town. What you are doing is taking small posts, and blowing them out of proportion. I would understand if this is RL mafia, Freudian slips apply, but in online mafia, people are able to write up their posts and edit them before they post them. Show nested quote + On September 23 2010 20:19 Divinek wrote:
totally buy the argument. Especially for team 7, what else is there to say other than it makes overwhelming sense. There's all kind of WIFOM shit people can throw into this but that slip up is pretty LOL. Cause i know i hate people that vote for me, or even attack me ie LSB, and so on so it's quite easy reasoning to follow
baa baaa
##vote team 7
Bandwagoning? As a veiled attack on Team 2 this is atrocious. Gonna accuse anyone who votes for your scumbuddy as bandwagoning? The evidence is pretty clear at this point. Uhh… Again, you like to ignore my previous posts in order to further your own point. I have stated that I will keep an eye out if Divinek starts to bandwagon. Guess what? He did. Show nested quote +On September 24 2010 18:29 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:
Summary
LSB acting shady not really contributing gets EXTREMELY defensive about an accusation then counter accuses someone, doesn't get behind the lynch of a very likely mafia candidate. Partner also acts suspicious (will get into in a minute)
Verdict=mafia I’ll just quote this paragraph. Your entire ‘accusation’ was just a rehash of things I’ve addressed with Incog. Things like my supposed neutrality are brought up, and I have already addressed it. I would understand if you refuted my defense. But you didn’t do anything. You just pointed out someone else’s idea and slapped a vote on me. I can see why Pyrr wants to lynch you. And I’ll go with his judgment ##Vote: Team 6 BloodyC0bbler and RebirthOfLeGenDShow nested quote +On September 24 2010 18:50 Incognito wrote:That's all really misleading... I have stated my own thoughts on a number of occasions... if we are mafia, why would we go after a team that has previously had no real suspicions put upon them by anyone else... instead of simply following the crowd and gone after someone with the heat on. There's no reason for me to make enemies, townie or red...
When I get time, and if it isn't done already by my partner YellowInk, I'll get into that more comprehensive analysis of team 6. Simple. You think Team 6 is the most scummy team that isn't you or your scumbuddy. You have every incentive as mafia to go after a new team (Team 6), especially since the other option (Team 1) isn't so palatable from your point of view. Team 6 is pretty inactive, and you're going to have to save yourself somehow, so no reason not to vote Team 6. There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious of Team 6. The reasons just arent as good as the reasons for you or Team 1. I'll agree that a lot of Foolishness's "analysis" is sketchy and is a stretch. But there are some good points there. To all those saying Meeple never takes any stands, check out ALL of meeple's posts in TL Mafia XXVII. Not just the first 10 or so. He definitely contributes his thoughts about lynch targets/other characters. Here's a few excerpts: On June 15 2010 11:23 meeple wrote:
I trust Ludwig with almost no doubts... much more than moocow... and I trust them both more than some other people.
There's a slight chance of there being mafia amongst our dts... but like radfield said, its questionable whether this is a good time to start offing claimed blues.
flamewheel's willingness to undergo a check makes me hesitate to push a check on him... but it doesn't put him in the clear obviously. I would try for a redtooth alignment check tonight... or Chez... On June 15 2010 11:33 meeple wrote:
Ludwig has been active... but he's just active at a different time... totally offset from North American time.
I never said you were suspicious... I just said that I trust Ludwig... mostly because if he was mafia there's no way he would've stepped in before. His trusting of L isn't suspicious, tons of people followed L's plan...
His reactions when Chez was shooting people was genuine I felt... he was just confused, as was I, at what the hell was going on.
I have no reason to distrust you, and for sure you're low on the list of suspects... On June 15 2010 02:00 meeple wrote:
I'm down with RoL more than Vivi57... there's little/no case to be made for/against Vivi since he's so inactive. On June 15 2010 02:06 meeple wrote:
Having said that and then going through his posts... RoL is pretty damn inactive too...
I'll have to think more about which one is more deserving On June 13 2010 04:07 meeple wrote:
I don't agree with lynching Chez on the grounds of inactivity though. If I have some time to go through posts I'll come up with more suspects. On June 17 2010 08:26 meeple wrote:
Ludwig is most definitely the roleblocker... that's the only way he can hold up his claims to be a dt...
Also... Radfield is the last mafia I beleive... too many close inexplicable ties with Ludwig then last minute trying to push away.
I trusted Ludwig because I was being impulsive about his defense of me early on and took a risk (and a rather stupid one)... but when I didn't die I thought that it kinda proved that he wasn't red... since who wouldn't take a lovely medic dangled in front of you like that. I didn't really trust Radfield... was kinda forced into it by Ludwig...
Anyways... tommorow's lynch of radfield should clinch the game for us... Meeple states his trust, states who to rolecheck, agrees/disagrees on lynching certain targets, and gives more input on the situation with the last quote. Notice how he consistently doesn't like lynching on inactivity. Notice how that contrasts with this game, where he wants to lynch BC based on uselessness/inactivity... Lastly, On June 16 2010 11:28 meeple wrote:Alright so... first things first... I'm the medic... The mafia knows it by know and so should the town. Obviously I claimed watcher because there was a shitload of greens and it was simply more believable. I had been in PM contact with Ludwig a little and later claimed medic to him since he had defended me in the thread... through him I also had PM contact with Radfield, who also knew me as the medic (through Ludwig... not my decision to tell him) Now... not too long after I claimed to be watcher and had "found" the medic, Foolishness PMs me wondering why I hadn't contacted him yet and claims watcher and tells me (to prove that he's a watcher) that tree.hugger also visited Ludwig last night. Of course, I couldn't have known that, but regardless I was just so fucking elated that we had a medic/watcher pair, since now we can coordinate. Things proceed, now with me thinking I had a solid base with a watcher by my side... until I get a PM from L, asking me if Foolishness is the medic... I respond somewhat vaguely, but give him a strong indication that Foolishness is indeed the medic... knowing that if they went after him I could always protect him. Then L flips Godfather and the shit hits the fan and I knew that L would've told the rest of the reds to go after Foolishness. So tonight we schemed... I protected Foolishness, and he watched himself to see who hit him. AND IT WAS MOTHER FUCKING + Show Spoiler +The same friggin dude that I had supported and backed like a moron... Anyways... we lynch him today and we're down to 1 red... meeple was involved in a blue roles scheme. I know we don't have as complex blue roles this game, but meeple was certainly contributing in the other game. On the other hand, meeple has zero useful contributions this game. And no thoughts on lynch targets either. Except for team 6. kk I'll read through meeples posts with you. 1. No stand 2. No stand 3. No stand 4. No stand 5. No stand 6. Says that he thinks Ludwig and Radfield are mafia. There isn't that much anlysis 7. I agree! Very usefull contribution! After reading through all of that I don't see how you are still able to accuse meeple of being mafia. Meeple doesn't really commit to much. Understandable, not everyone wants to play this game 24/7. You point to his contribution (#7), and I agree. Thats great thinking by meeple. But you can't suddenly generalize everything off of it.
Just more trying to cast doubt on Incognito "I have serious doubts on whether your townie." Just defends himself, doesn't contribute.
On September 25 2010 07:24 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2010 06:58 Foolishness wrote:
Is there anything in particular that makes you all want to kill team 6 over anyone else? I'm alright not killing team 7 at the moment, but you all seem to be voting for team 6 as a "well we need a team that's not team 7, okay let's go with 6" instead of thinking they're actually mafia. =I'm going to vote with Pyrr, this way we can make our votes count more. Of course, I have my own opinion too, and it supports pyrr's right now Show nested quote +On September 23 2010 12:10 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
@ this whole LSB vs. Incognito thing
Incog and SR seem to be locked in on LSB because he is supposedly too passive. He's not close to the most passive person here. BrownBear hasn't done much except advocate a no lynch. More importantly, BC hasn't done shit.
I don't believe BC has an "I don't care mode." I see his name pop up on MSN often enough. I called him out for his placeholder vote on Foolishness and he didn't ever come back around to move it. RoL, is of course active this game, but that's even weirder than an inactive BC.
vote team 6 I can't really tell about the BC thing, I'll take Pyrr's word on it. But I've heard that he is a a really good player and it is really strange why he wouldn't be doing much. On the other hand, RoL Has been making really mafia ish posts. He seems somewhat active, but when we look at his long posts, they are mainly restatements of what other people has said. RoL is band-wagoning a lot of stuff. Well he didn't bandwagon me day 1, but that would be obvious as something was wrong with that bandwagon. Me flipping green would be seriously detrimental to the people who started my lynch. But now as we enter day two, RoL takes an easy path and Picks on Team 7, and us Team 1. Something that everyone else has done. In addition, he just does things that other people has done before. He makes 'analysis' but all he did was go through and reword Incog's attacks
Hey, remember that previous post? In which you said you and Pyrr would have different opinoins and you would do your own stuff? How about that eh? "I'll take Pyrr's word on it." No analysis, just bandwagoning and going along with others. Now he's accusing RoL for making "really mafia ish posts." He brings up new things LSB, and IS active. And you aren't contributing at all.
So, General Patterns of LSB:
1.Defends himself
2.Doesn't contribute
3. Defends himself mainly by accusing other people and saying their mafia
4.Contradicting himself.
LSB is mafia.
Pyrr coming up next.
Seriously guys, Team 1 is a WAY better lynch option than Team 7, I urge you all to change your votes.
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Again, Everyone voting for team 7 or the illogical votes for team 6 please change to Team 1. They're a much better, safer, and more logical choice for the lynch, and we don't have much time yet.
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
The link between teams 1 and 7 is pretty clear. I don't think it makes much of a difference between the two. We should be considering either team 6 or 7 instead, and not team 1.
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On September 25 2010 08:10 Foolishness wrote:
The link between teams 1 and 7 is pretty clear. I don't think it makes much of a difference between the two. We should be considering either team 6 or 7 instead, and not team 1.
I've negated that connection. The fact that team 7 in my opinion is town, and the lack of a clear connection to team 1, we must choose Team 1. Also, I think RoL is saving team 6, and I'm willing to see Team 6 live another day if BC starts stepping it up.
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Part 2: An Analysis of Pyrr(Or, How I Learned to stop worrying and Love the bomb)
On September 20 2010 08:47 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I think Foolishness pointed out all the reason's why Incognito's plan is bad: especially true are that no one ever seems to follow them and that medics should protect themselves until they get a really good read on someone else.
Doesn't contribute, a clear "I repeat what someone says." Also tries to negate a plan by saying no one will follow it, which is one of the worst arguments someone can make as that can be applied to anything.
On September 20 2010 08:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I don't have any suspicions at this point. I'll probably want to kill Bill Murray when he gets active but he is tied to Ace so perhaps he will be moderated.
In the words of someone else, what is the purpose of this post?
On September 20 2010 11:57 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 09:01 Incognito wrote:On September 20 2010 08:51 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I don't have any suspicions at this point. I'll probably want to kill Bill Murray when he gets active but he is tied to Ace so perhaps he will be moderated. What is the point of this post? Encourage Bill Murray to post / state where I am / encourage Ace and Bill Murray to act as a team rather than two people with one vote if they are town
I see the connection *end sarcasm*.
On September 20 2010 15:30 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 14:15 BrownBear wrote:On September 20 2010 09:32 SouthRawrea wrote:
So this is a really basic game of mafia. If the scenario is 2 mafia 6 townies, we're best of lynching from day 1, no buts or ifs. If we have only have a doctor the scenario is the same, lynch from day 1. The only difference is that we have a better chance of survival. The thing about a cop only scenario is that if mafia claims cop and the real cop counterclaims, we'll end up in a scenario where we'll have 1 mafia, 3 townies with the cop most likely dead. We'll most likely have 1 confirmed, 2 townies and 1 mafia at the end in which case we have a 1/3 shot at winning. Now what the mafia has to be careful of is if we have both a cop and a doctor in which case our chances of winning rise significantly because we'll be able to protect the confirmed cop after we realize that we were duped by the mafia fakecop. Now our two possible options are: 1) Lynch right away or 2) Wait a day for a possible guilty report and proceed to lynch regardless if cop outs himself. If we lynch right away for a scenario where we have a cop, we have a slight chance of outting our cop but it's nothing significant. In the end because we end the game on a mylo, it won't make a difference. However if we wait a day in a situation where we do not have a cop, it'll reduce our chances of winning. It doesn't really matter what we choose to do because we don't the setup of the game.
TL;DR We can choose NL or Lynch but it all depends on which of the game setups we have. Since we don't know which one it is, it doesn't matter which we pick. This was a really long, elegant way of saying absolutely jack shit. That's all SR ever posts. I don't think he posts any better when townie. I think he thinks he is contributing a lot but... he just manages to state the obvious and make it mind bangingly esoteric. Very unnerving.
Besides the possible slip up(which can now be interperted of him knowing is town), the real content is null. It's helpful...I guess.
On September 20 2010 16:44 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2010 16:00 Incognito wrote:On September 20 2010 09:27 Foolishness wrote:On September 20 2010 08:52 Incognito wrote:On September 20 2010 05:53 Foolishness wrote:
3) I've never seen a game where there was a medic/DT list created and the actual medic/DT followed it. This is forum mafia and let's not kid ourselves here, everyone thinks they're the best. I don't find it reasonable at all that the medic actually listen to what the town voted for. Add in the fact that each team has 2/3 players on it, which is going to lead to more disagreements about who to protect.
First of all, this is not true. For example, madnessman (DT) checked Sidesprang day 1, who was on the DT list in Mafia XX. Anyway, the publicity of a medic list is hard for the mafia to ignore, regardless of whether or not medic chooses to follow it. And that's the point. The point of the list is not to result in 100% anythings, and is certainly not to confirm people. The point is merely psychological. Mafia must be preoccupied worrying about things even if town doesn't follow through on it. This has nothing to do with town compliance. Unlike some other recent terribly formed schemes, this one doesn't really rely on town agreeing with it. As for the rest of the post...when did Korynne say medics can protect themselves? I don't remember that being stated anywhere. How do you intend to analyze the mafia without PMs and without people talking about something? Notice how people read my post and decide to respond to only a certain portion of it... I'm still going to revert back to the point of we should be hunting mafia and not worrying about who's going to be on the medic list. If a person/team seems pro-town or more innocent than anyone else, good for them. I'm not going to waste my time thinking about who's more pro-town than who. Everyone here is well versed in mafia, we can all make decisions for ourselves about who's clearly innocent. Not to mention once the numbers start to dwindle we can't afford to make a medic list, especially when we have days of information to analyze people by. But I can understand making a list today, or you doing this to see who votes for whom, as that can be pertinent information in the late game. And still, medics should save themselves anyways. Everyone in this game knows that, so a list doesn't matter to the mafia since they know the medics are saving themselves anyways. I don't think the psychological impacts on the mafia are going to be there because of this fact. I asked Korynne in a PM. It would be helpful for her to say so in the thread and/or update the rules with this fact as well, to avoid confusion in the future. Ah. It seems that we are on the same page now. Anyway, on to real business: [Vote]Team 1We don't have much time till the end of the day, and very few posts to go off, but Team 1 is playing totally out of character to me. First off, LSB. In TL Mafia XXX we saw LSB the planner. Throughout all the discussion from day 1, multiple plans get proposed and shot down. LSB participated in the discussion and tried to come up with a better plan. It turns out that the town used his plan in the end. While it was flawed, this game shows that LSB as town actively contributes to the town discussion and tries to move the game forward/improve the town's situation. In PYP2, LSB didn't take such a pronounced role in the town, but still supported Radfield's plan/stated why it was fairly solid even though there could be some flaws. LSB ended up picking traitor that game, but since he was town before the role picks it cannot be assumed that he was playing the game with a mafia mindset. In this game, LSB's activity is way down. Looking at his first substantial post, he speculates on why South could have been put on divinek/bum's team. The second post is more telling. First sentence he immediately casts doubt upon my proposal. Really, that first sentence isn't a problem with my plan, as I have addressed the non-existence of a DT/medic already. The sentence in itself doesn't necessarily say anything about alignment. Once I point out this erroneous logic however, he says he really did read my post and switches what he claims is the "main problem". This time, instead of pointing to the non-existence of DT/medic, he says blue actions will be wasted and that DT/medic won't follow the plan so its all circular logic and won't work. A valid criticism, but different from the previous criticism. In both of these posts, what does LSB propose to fix these? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. In both posts, he criticizes the plan and expresses his "concern" for the flaws. This is definitely not typical LSB behavior. LSB asks if I have an example game where this idea has been used. Relevance? I think there's none. LSB is just trying to stir the pot here. Another interesting post is when LSB states the two accusations that have been made and then says he doesn't like either of them. Its a neutral statement that says nothing. Very uncharacteristic for someone who often gives input and opinion when innocent. Next is Pyrr. Pyrr echoes Foolishness. Doesn't tell us much. Second post is neutral/ambiguous and implies a threat against BM/Ace but otherwise says nothing. Stating that he has no suspicions is somewhat suspicious to me though. Pyrr is normally active, aggressive, and accusatory. Here, he just sits on the fence. Claiming he is trying to encourage certain behavior, when really there is little point in encouraging that at this point. Pyrr's post is meaningless and looks like fluff post. Isn't really solid evidence either way, but this behavior doesn't make me want to think Pyrr is innocent AT ALL. Given a strong case against LSB and some unconvincing behavior from Pyrr, I believe Team 1 is today's best choice for lynch. Unless you (Foolishness) or someone else comes up with a better target. Given your attention to behavior analysis, if I could have found something, I'm sure you could have too. Looking forward to see what you think of Team 1, or any other teams. Main Points: 1) LSB is suspicious, acting out of character, and is being wishy washy. 2) Pyrr has done nothing spectacularly pro-town. 3) Team 1 is the most scummy team right now. 4) Vote for Team 1 for lynch LSB's plan was based on coordinating blues - we might not have a single blue this game. We can't really confirm anything because for the few roles we have... we don't even know how they work. LSB had a plan in one game - a plan that was started by Bill Murray and then edited by Pandain and then picked up by LSB. So LSB is suspicious because he hasn't posted a plan yet? I suppose the Medic plan would be an okay idea if it got us talking, but another problem I have is that I don't know who I would vote for other than LSB and I. If the medic can prot themselves, that would be their best option. The deterrence factor could be a good reason for it so we might as well do it. My post wasn't meaningless - you asked me why I made it and I told you. Not only has BM been quieter than usual, so has Ace, who is certainly more known for plans than LSB. He usually doesn't show up and ask for an explanation unless he is subbing in and he usually tries to browbeat the town into doing something when town (same with BM who doesn't mind making crazy plans and FoSing anyone who criticizes them). Also, I don't know BC to usually use this "RVS" tactic - it is usually a Bill Murray move. Any bandwagoning in a game this small is dangerous so if their vote sits tight under bad circumstances I will be onto them.
Mmm... says he's suscipious of BM and Ace because they haven't posted that much in like the first 12 hours...(and they later turn out to be town). I won't comment on the last paragraph(not enough knowledge) but it seems alright.
(He defends himself after some accusations.....)
On September 21 2010 10:21 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
I do think that Divinek and South Rawrea are both weirdly defensive, but BM's idea for the medic was really good. I didn't realize Divinek was also on Team 2 when we talked about him.
I guess I'll have to see what SR says about that plan since he has seemed to hold steadfast that plans are bad.
Supports the (bad) plan that Bumatlarge proposed. And how did he not realize Divinek is on team 2? Alright, I misread the number of ninjas so I guess I can't blame him :p
On September 22 2010 01:56 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
Eesh. Looks like Penalty Mafia all over again. The last few games I started out placing blame all over the place and I was way off. This game I try to be more careful and be more accurate about how suspicious something is and I am "just pointing the finger" and "not taking a stance on anything." Whatever dudes.
As for my partner, he was wrong to get locked in to team 2 when he thought bumatlarge was acting pro-town. I don't know why that mistake is so suspicious but the world will never make sense to me. Going forward you should all try to avoid this mistake and go after teams that are acting in concerted ways (3,4,5,6,8).
vote no lynch
Apologizes for his partner, tries to wave it aside. Doesn't contribute.
On September 22 2010 06:04 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:
RoL has been a little more active than he usually is. He's usually hella inactive green or red. But BC is surely too quiet for my liking. Where are you James?
I thought they were maybe acting similar and blue but actually RoL is way more active than normal and BC is more inactive than normal which I don't know what to think about. RVS by BC makes me suspicious, especially when he puts it on a good player and criticizes lynching inactives while doing it. Of course that teams votes have been changed to meeple / yellowink, I believe, who Incog is now criticizing. Not sure what to think on m/yi yet, other than Incog's post did not convince me.
Alright, valid point. I don't see why being too active is bad(as long as you aren't spamming), but its alright. He tries to cast doubt on BC for the RVS, but BC's already said that that was just to get some discussion, and in no way serious.
On September 22 2010 11:41 Pyrrhuloxia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2010 08:50 Pandain wrote:
No you silly mongoose, you don't understand. You see, if we had medic claim he would have to protect himself. And then mafia would know to avoid him. Now, so what are the benefits of this?
1. We have confirmed townie(or mafia, so this isn't even that good.) We know not to lynch him.
But if he just protects himself without saying anything, then it will still have the same benefits but mafia won't know to avoid him, therefore we have the possibility of drawing hits into medic protection.
Medic claiming is just a useless tidbit that will help mafia.
Also, you got me killed because "I had no plan" that game, even though that setup was worse for plans!(no role information whatsoever) So shut that "Well we can't make plans" Well if the medic gets confirmed it would give the cop someone to claim to, if we also have a cop. The cop could check the medic and then pass info through the medic (there's no GF role or anything to make a faulty check). What if we don't have a cop? Well the medic can let us know (or keep that to himself if he thinks it would help mafia to know). Medic claiming, as you said, "is just a useless tidbit," it won't help mafia that much because the medic can just bluff and decide to say he will prot himself while protting someone else or say he will prot someone else and prot himself, etc.
Plan which fails because of no pms. How does he not know theres no pms? Makes me think he's mafia, but of course thats speculation.
So, Conclusion
While not as scummy and as obvious as LSB, that can be attributed to a number of points.
1. Pyrr is more expierenced(can edit posts better)
2. Doesn't post as much.
But there are some observations one should note, mainly the lack of real concrete thoughts, just one paragraph or so thoughts, which, while not bad, should be taken into consideration.
If this team were two Pyrr's, I wouldn't vote for them. But LSB is just a red dot on the scum radar, and I urge all of you to vote for them.
Also, for everyone saying, "Well we can vote for either team 1 or 7 since there related." :
Though I doubt the connection, if they were, then we should vote for the most likely one to be mafia, which is obviously Team 1.
Please everyone, vote for them.
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Those were awesome posts and I wholeheartedly agree with you pandain, the only thing I don't agree with is you disavowing the link between the two teams. You really do shrug off the weird voting and behavior that kicks off day two by a lot. But like I said earlier I think they are both around equal in guilt I was just wondering if you can try to explain or further iterate why you think they aren't linked?
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