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If everyone claims whether they can shoot, then basically mafia can kill off the blues. I don't know how bad this is (considering blues don't have KP), but either way it gives mafia too much information.
I think it's much better that we only focus on 2 people per day, so our blue roles or green roles don't get outted to mafia.
I definitely don't think more people should claim their roles in this thread unless it's useful.
Right now I'm most suspicious of L, but his play feels very similar to the one in Red Army where he was townie (I totally suspected him of being mafia before reading the roles list). So I'm not FoSing L.
People need to post more so we have something to go on. The whole lynch inactives also wouldn't work in this case because we can't just vote for the two most inactive people to kill each other. >_>;;
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On May 31 2010 04:37 Korynne wrote:
If everyone claims whether they can shoot, then basically mafia can kill off the blues. I don't know how bad this is (considering blues don't have KP), but either way it gives mafia too much information.
I think it's much better that we only focus on 2 people per day, so our blue roles or green roles don't get outted to mafia.
I definitely don't think more people should claim their roles in this thread unless it's useful.
Right now I'm most suspicious of L, but his play feels very similar to the one in Red Army where he was townie (I totally suspected him of being mafia before reading the roles list). So I'm not FoSing L.
People need to post more so we have something to go on. The whole lynch inactives also wouldn't work in this case because we can't just vote for the two most inactive people to kill each other. >_>;;
I don't see how focusing on two people per day will be efficient (am willing to be persuaded for I don't really have a plan right now). I can, however, see it as a golden opportunity for the mafia to pit people against each other.
oh and too late for claiming - I have been doing for the past few games.
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On May 31 2010 04:36 XeliN wrote:
L. Explain a situation where ONE PERSON, will claim not to be able to shoot if we agree on a mass roleclaim.
Outline specifically why they would do so, how it benefits their role//the town//the mafia//the individuals.
I am essentially saying that every single person, town, mafia or blue or lone warrior, will come out as saying they can shoot. Which links neatly back to your plan being useless. Please explain otherwise.
And also explain this "It's going to be based on a number of factors which we'll have when people claim". Outline these factors.
See, you're kinda retarded because you think that all of our townies are going to claim to be able to shoot. A townie's going to want to soak up hits over other players and a few are going to fake claim non-shooter to absorb roleblocks and bombermen bombs. What's more, and perhaps the most important part; depending on how many people claim, we might not even bother hitting people on the non-shooter list because we'd probably have our 3rd parties and blues there. If that's the case, third parties are pretty much immune to our blue roles and would be FANTASTICALLY HAPPY to not be under the gun, which they would be if we asked them to shoot. Given that both have survivor cred and that neither can be night killed if i recall correctly, they stand to gain far more from obeying the town than helping mafia because mafia can't kill them while a single townie bullet can.
Now that that layer of mindgames is setup, blues should probably be honest about shit.
Then, we look at the number of players that are lying. A few people have breadcrumbed that they're going to claim something false, but those I've already picked up on. So we examine the number of legit lies. Then we take the shooter list and break it into chunks. We have a list of shooters that most people think are legit, a list of shooters that people aren't sure about. Then a list that people are suspicious of. We shoot the players in the suspicious group using players in the suspicious group depending on how many lies we have and use our DT/watchers co-ordinated by me or whomever succeeds me because I'm going to be killed night 2 or so if i get this running.
This forces members of the mafia who are outted as non-shooters to trek back to the point of the claim to attempt to convince us that they are, in fact, blue.
Your alternative... oh wait you have none.
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On May 31 2010 04:01 L wrote:
I can shoot
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I have an alternative, watcher roleclaims and is the only person to do so. He (or she) co-ordinates the town and the medic protects them and we go from there. Mafia can never kill the watcher as they only have 1 kill power.
This was the plan I was going to suggest before realising that the medic role could potentially be useless. As an alternative I like Korynne's idea of each day putting forward two people who are agreed upon to be most suspicious.
I propose we call it Duelists Kingdom !
Once that has been established those two people then are given free reign, and are encourged, to kill the other person. Verify innocents (to the extent where they are innocent or Godfather) and gain information each time, it seems like a good way to go. Could be hampered by town not reaching a consensus on who are the most suspicious people e.t.c but hey we will simply have to agree.
At this point the two I would suggest would be L and Korynne, although this is merely a suggestion for a strategy the town could adopt.
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So uh, why have a single person claim if he's going to be roleblocked pretty much the entire game.
Additionally you seem to be trying to set up a code word. Maybe that's why you're so butthurt.
Sup Bomberman.
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Or instead of picking the two who the town agree are most suspicious simply select 2 people at random.
All the while this is going on the Watcher will be trying to find a mafia, and the Cop will be trying to find their true role//catch mafia once it's known and the medic likewise.
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I'm not the bomber man, call it what you like was only a jokey name I put forward, watched abit of yu-gi-oh the abridged series earlier. As stated having the watcher come out and claim is flawed, and your right I missed that the mafia can roleblock, so simply for that reason it wouldnt work. I think no PM's really rigs//limits the town as to what they can actually do this game 
Your plan however is no better whatsoever that the latter idea of having 2 people each day face off
It seems based on the idea that regular town members will pretend to have blue roles//not be able to day kill and I just flat out think that two options will come of your plan.
Everyone claims shooter. This is useless and helps us in no way
or
Some or more actual blue roles actually follow your idea and as a result the mafia simply pick them off job done...
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On May 31 2010 05:08 XeliN wrote:I'm not the bomber man, call it what you like was only a jokey name I put forward, watched abit of yu-gi-oh the abridged series earlier. As stated having the watcher come out and claim is flawed, and your right I missed that the mafia can roleblock, so simply for that reason it wouldnt work. I think no PM's really rigs//limits the town as to what they can actually do this game Your plan however is no better whatsoever that the latter idea of having 2 people each day face off It seems based on the idea that regular town members will pretend to have blue roles//not be able to day kill and I just flat out think that two options will come of your plan. Everyone claims shooter. This is useless and helps us in no way or Some or more actual blue roles actually follow your idea and as a result the mafia simply pick them off job done...
Yeah, you're pretty obviously the bomberman if you're this scared of claiming.
Not a single green townie would be worried about this plan because there's zero that hurts them in it, and our blue roles this game are incredibly weak. Even our DT is up shit's creek and we can't have any of our blue roles claim or they'll get blocked.
The key here is third parties. Only we can kill them, and as such it makes sense for town and 3rd parties to buddy up until the mafia are cut into pieces. The 3rd parties benefit from not being shot when they turn up via watcher, DT or shot roulette and we gain by having additional KP. As the game goes on they'll want to betray us, but that's to be expected.
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You guys talked how many people should shoot and who should be shot on day 2, but you are missing the point that the mentality of our cop and especially doctor. Plans involving cop or doctor may backfire (ex. paranoid doctor kills watcher)
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See, pressuring people makes them screw up :3
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L, I've already claimed I can shoot and am more than happy to be put forward on the first day to verify that.
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But you also said you'd claim you can shoot regardless of your role.
So nah, I'll shoot day one because its kinda important that the right person is shot.
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I think a better way to pick who should shoot is pressure those who are suspicious people who claim that they can shoot to do the shooting. But this can backfire if the suspicious people have blue roles.
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Whoa, shocker. Thanks for restating the central component of what everyone's been saying for 2 pages.
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Theres a slight difference L, I've stated that If at ANY point in the game I claim to not be able to shoot I should be killed as well as said I'd happily be put as the first to verify I can shoot.
Your point (based on my point) still applies, I do think everyone would claim to be able to shoot irrespective but that was mainly on your plan that everyone roleclaim.
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On May 31 2010 05:32 XeliN wrote:
Theres a slight difference L, I've stated that If at ANY point in the game I claim to not be able to shoot I should be killed as well as said I'd happily be put as the first to verify I can shoot.
Your point (based on my point) still applies, I do think everyone would claim to be able to shoot irrespective but that was mainly on your plan that everyone roleclaim.
There is no slight difference. Everyone who claims to be able to shoot who lies is going to be killed.
On that note, I have a question for Ace.
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Ah wait, no I don't its in the rules. XeliN if I'm roleblocked, you're up to shoot. Cool?
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So I say the two most suspicious people should shoot, rather than just picking random people.
Otherwise we're basically leaving our chances of finding mafia to a random number generator...
In terms of getting town to agree on who should shoot, it's simply a matter of voting and majority/plurality.
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L, you will be consulting town and shooting only after majority/majority-inactives/close to the end of the day, correct?
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EPT
