Welcome to another game of classic destruction where a bunch of players try to outwit each other and lead their team to victory!
This is a Dirty South set-up also known as a day killing game. The way this works is that almost everyone can kill another player in the game by typing kill: player in the thread. If possible I will kill that player and the game moves on to night phase. There are No Lynches in this format so there is no voting.
Once you have day killed someone you must wait a set number of days before you can shoot again. The formula for this is (#of of shots used) = (delay in days before next shot attempt). This means if you shot someone once, you must wait one day before being able to shoot again. Likewise, if you've shot twice you must wait two days and etc.. This of course only applies to day kills and night kills don't count for this purpose.
If you have type kill: player in the thread and you can't actually kill someone I will just ignore it.
Roles:
Vanilla Towny - You've had enough. No more sitting around voting on who's guilty. You've got a gun, and people will learn to listen to you or get bent. Any time during the day you may type kill: player in the thread and shoot them. The day will end once you shoot.
Cop - Kinda sucks that you can't shoot during the day but someone has to uphold the law. At Night you may investigate a player and get a result of Innocent or Scum. You may be Sane, Insane or Paranoid.
Doctor - Saving lives is your job! Shooting people is a no no! You can't day kill but you can protect someone at night. You can be Sane, Insane, Paranoid or Weak.
Watcher - Looking out for people is what you do best. At night you can choose to watch a player and I'll tell you who visited them at night.
Miller - You are a Vanilla Towny that unfortunately seems so scummy you show up as SCUM to an investigation.
Scum Godfather - You appear innocent to Alignment checks. You can also shoot during the day time by typing kill: player in the thread.
Scum Roleblocker - You can stop anyone from carrying out their night actions. Blocking a Vanilla Towny does not rob them of the ability to Day Kill. You can't kill during the day.
Vanilla Scum - At Night you may coordinate with your other allies and decide who to kill. You can't kill during the day.
Serial Killer - Lone wolf. You must survive until the end of the game and eliminate both Town,Mafia and any other factions. At night you are bulletproof and can't be shot. You also show up as Innocent to role checks. You can kill at Night but can not day kill. You must kill at Night or else I will mod kill you.
Bomber Man - At Night you may PM me and give me a player to prime with explosives. You must also give me a codeword to set off the explosives. If any of the player(s) you have primed use the codeword you've given me they will detonate your explosives. Once this happens you are out of explosives. You are immune to Night Kills but not immune to role checks. You show up as SCUM to Alignment Checks. Your codeword can't be something extremely simple so be careful on what you pick. You win when you are the last person alive in the game.
Game Rules:
No PMs except if your role allows it. Play to win. Don't play against the spirit of the game. No cheating. Do not quote your role PM or even refer to it in any manner. Don't screen shot or copy/paste it either. Mods have the final say in any matter. If you have any questions or assumptions it's best to ask a mod before taking action.
All power roles and amounts are Open.
Priority is given to some players over others. If you are currently banned from playing a game you are not allowed to play in this game.
Days last 24 hours, nights last 12. This game will go fast.
Mafia have a kill power of 1!
# of Mafia in the Game:4 # of Anti-Town players in the game:2
Credits to anyone who has moderated before and Mafiascum for the initial setup.
Game starts as soon as we have 20 players signed up.
Signed Up:
DarthThienAn
Amber[LighT]
tree.hugger
johnnyspazz
L
Iaaan
Radfield
BrownBear
Nikon
Vivi57
citi.zen
~OpZ~
motbob
Korynne
LunarDestiny
ohN
LuDwig-
TwoToneTerran
Xelin
Chezinu
Also very important! This game will start AT NIGHT! That means Night Actions will start off before we hit Day time.
FAQs
Does the Role Blocker prevent day kills?
No. Role Blocker strictly blocks all night actions except passive abilities like bulletproof.
Does quoting a player who has spoken the Bomber Man codeword activate the bomb?
On May 26 2010 07:42 Hesmyrr wrote: Aww, why only one bomb to the Bomber Man? He would have been such a fascinating role to play as if it were more imbalanced rofl.
I don't think it's one bomb, I think it's one detonation. So each night, put a bomb on a person. If they don't codeword by the next night, lay another bomb. Repeat. Once someone says the word, everyone dies.
Edit: hey Ace, it doesn't say whether or not the bomberman gets a day kill or not.
And I like how serial killers are compulsive this game. lol. Not that it wouldn't be in their interest to kill each night normally.
On May 26 2010 08:05 Ace wrote: Bomber Man can't DK because I think it would be too powerful. So if a role doesn't say it can DK assume it can't ^_^
Yeah that's fair. Just wanted to check since you stated explicity for some other roles whether or not they could day kill, whereas you left Bomber Man unexplained ^^.
On May 26 2010 21:47 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'll play just to try and be Bomber man....he's always been my hero. Lmao.
<During the night> A: "My God, ~OpZ~ you are an idiot. If this is day I would have shot you repeatedly already kk?"
click KABOOM!
I think that phrase would work beautifully. If I get the whole thing said it should be like a nuke...Kills everyone but SK...Then I blow him up along with me (it doesn't say if you can't plant bombs on yourself.)
On May 28 2010 13:52 LuDwig- wrote: I am quite new to these type of games..so i have a question: Where we have to write "Kill: player" and checks?? in this topic or by pm to game master?
Town day kills are done in thread during the day phase. Checks are sent at night phase by pm to host, along with mafia kills, and medic protects.
We have 20 people. Being that it's Friday the game will start on Sunday at 12AM Eastern Time/13:00 KST. Remember this game starts with a night phase so night roles will be acting first. Roles will be sent out soon. Remember to read the rules to make sure you know how this game functions.
12 AM? =\ Can we go with a more... normal time? xD Like, 9 PM would be nicer because there are 12 hour periods so having to post between 12AM and 12PM might not be so practical for people who work.
On May 29 2010 11:11 Korynne wrote: 12 AM? =\ Can we go with a more... normal time? xD Like, 9 PM would be nicer because there are 12 hour periods so having to post between 12AM and 12PM might not be so practical for people who work.
If you look at the bright side, every other night cycle will be from 12pm to 12am (36hr full day cycle). lol.
If you've played this type of format before you'll know that days will last approximately 1~ minute. Don't worry, it'll be over fast if its 12 hour night cycles.
On May 29 2010 11:11 Korynne wrote: 12 AM? =\ Can we go with a more... normal time? xD Like, 9 PM would be nicer because there are 12 hour periods so having to post between 12AM and 12PM might not be so practical for people who work.
Don't worry, only the night phases will be 12 hours. That will be plenty of time to get things done if you have a night action.
Roles PMs are going out now. Remember this game starts with Night 0. Read the rules and if you have any questions PM me.
Everyone should have gotten a Role PM by now, if not PM me asap.
Game will start in about 10 hours from now. Good luck! .
Basically, the town was on their way towards winning with a pretty good plan, when hilarity ensued and all the townies went nuts with their daykills, ignoring any semblance of plan and just shooting pretty much at random. Chances are it will happen again. But I really hope not.
The problem with Townies not holding their fire, is that it promotes lurkerism. Why? Because no one wastes a shot on some dude who hasn't posted much, they shoot someone who's said something that they think is suspicious. The mafia are going to lurk hardcore in this game, in fact, everyone but townies will probably lurk hardcore, because there's always SOMEONE out there who will find what you post scummy. And it only takes one. We need to make reasonable decisions here, and not just start firing.
Please townies, hold your shots until we can at least get a little discussion going. I've already resigned myself to this game being a shitstorm though, so I expect someone will be executed at the break of dawn, with no information or reasoning to back it up.
Basically, the town was on their way towards winning with a pretty good plan, when hilarity ensued and all the townies went nuts with their daykills, ignoring any semblance of plan and just shooting pretty much at random. Chances are it will happen again. But I really hope not.
The problem with Townies not holding their fire, is that it promotes lurkerism. Why? Because no one wastes a shot on some dude who hasn't posted much, they shoot someone who's said something that they think is suspicious. The mafia are going to lurk hardcore in this game, in fact, everyone but townies will probably lurk hardcore, because there's always SOMEONE out there who will find what you post scummy. And it only takes one. We need to make reasonable decisions here, and not just start firing.
Please townies, hold your shots until we can at least get a little discussion going. I've already resigned myself to this game being a shitstorm though, so I expect someone will be executed at the break of dawn, with no information or reasoning to back it up.
Screw lurkers. I got obs, I'll shoot all of them yo.
and lol. It's the kill or be killed mentality.
I'ma straightup claim right now that I'm boring and vanilla town. zzz. I was going to kill someone random, but I guess I won't anymore, haha.
Plan: Everyone post once within the next 12 hours hopefully?
My plan is to shoot someone who doesn't speak up within the first 12 hours or so of the first day, unless Darth beats me to it XD. I will also claim vanilla town. Whee.
The plan in the last one seemed tight, only shoot where there is a majority agreement OR you are prepared to be lynched if you kill a town alligned player.
Or are we more likely to have multiple cops and doctors considering they might be sane/insane etc. That would make it 8 trigger happy townies instead of 10. Thoughts?
On May 30 2010 05:14 Radfield wrote: How can you can being a townie 'boring' Darth. You get to execute whoever you want. There are pretty much no 'boring' roles in this set-up.
Also, why are you guys roleclaiming? Is that a good move at this point?
Or are we more likely to have multiple cops and doctors considering they might be sane/insane etc. That would make it 8 trigger happy townies instead of 10. Thoughts?
Yeah when I read the post I was still in normal mafia mode and immediately went into "wow my role is boring" mindset, even while making a plan where I shoot someone. lol major fail.
Why not ^^. Preemptive roleclaiming is always a huge wifom.
I could be: not mafia and I'm not lying, just roleclaiming for no reason mafia and I'm lying, roleclaiming to lie about it. not mafia, blue role, claiming vanilla to hide any of the above and claiming to mindgame someone else into trying to figure out what I am.
Let's look at how people can look at me though. Not mafia: "Durr... Darth so dumb trying to claim he's not mafia. So he must be mafia. Or maybe he's not mafia and he's just straight up claiming?" Mafia: "Well I know he's not mafia. But is he vanilla or is he blue? O_O."
So really, me claiming actually gives absolutely NO information to ANYONE. lol.
Also, don't forget the Bomber Man. Probably only one of those or that would be crazy.
Basically, the town was on their way towards winning with a pretty good plan, when hilarity ensued and all the townies went nuts with their daykills, ignoring any semblance of plan and just shooting pretty much at random. Chances are it will happen again. But I really hope not.
The problem with Townies not holding their fire, is that it promotes lurkerism. Why? Because no one wastes a shot on some dude who hasn't posted much, they shoot someone who's said something that they think is suspicious. The mafia are going to lurk hardcore in this game, in fact, everyone but townies will probably lurk hardcore, because there's always SOMEONE out there who will find what you post scummy. And it only takes one. We need to make reasonable decisions here, and not just start firing.
Please townies, hold your shots until we can at least get a little discussion going. I've already resigned myself to this game being a shitstorm though, so I expect someone will be executed at the break of dawn, with no information or reasoning to back it up.
The only problem I see with this is that the general plan of shooters are sacred is like a free invite for the mob boss to take control of the game. It has a possibility of weeding out regular scum really fast, or really slow, though.
yoosefull fakt: Only Vanilla Town and Scum Godfather are able to day kill. Both show up innocent to alignment checks. So the Godfather is veryyy problematic. No rolecops this game either. There is no positive way to catch the godfather, minus the good ol' deduction and analysis (or luck).
We need to get some confirmations from Ace about whether Watcher or Miller can also shoot.
Watcher - Looking out for people is what you do best. At night you can choose to watch a player and I'll tell you who visited them at night.
Miller - You are a Vanilla Towny that unfortunately seems so scummy you show up as SCUM to an investigation.
For watcher, it never said he can not shoot. For miller, the "you are a vanilla towny" which should include all of vanilla towny's trait, day shooting included.
On May 30 2010 05:36 LunarDestiny wrote: We need to get some confirmations from Ace about whether Watcher or Miller can also shoot.
Watcher - Looking out for people is what you do best. At night you can choose to watch a player and I'll tell you who visited them at night.
Miller - You are a Vanilla Towny that unfortunately seems so scummy you show up as SCUM to an investigation.
For watcher, it never said he can not shoot. For miller, the "you are a vanilla towny" which should include all of vanilla towny's trait, day shooting included.
You are absolutely right. I was just basing it off this:
On May 26 2010 08:05 Ace wrote: Bomber Man can't DK because I think it would be too powerful. So if a role doesn't say it can DK assume it can't ^_^
I think Miller should be able to shoot. Which means if we have player-Miller (I'm assuming they don't know who they are) who shoots and checks out SCUM, he's innocent. But I doubt this situation will ever arise, except maybe if the cop checks miller first night, as the cop should never check anyone that shoots, unless they are confirming their sanity, because it's useless and will always show Innocent, unless they are Miller
You have 13 pro town people who have no information about who is on their side. You have 4 mafia members who know each other can could use the role claiming to confuse the town. (I don't think they will claim anything other than townie, maybe watcher or doctor.)
Then you have the others... Serial killer would probably claim anything but mafia since their vulnerability is at day. Bomber man... dude probably want to stay alive to activate an epic bomb.
Everyone would claim vanilla townies. Maybe the not-townies would claim doctor since they can't shoot and their ability is hard to be exposed except by cop.
I only did it as Darth did and I didn't feel it gives too much away.
I could be lying as mafia, lying as town but with a different role looking to hide that fact or being honest as plain vanilla townie.
But for the record throughout this game I will be claiming Vanilla townie, and if i change from that at all I ought to be shot. No "I only claimed this in order to X" bullshit.
TwoTone I think the enforcing relies on anyone who is PM'd by a person that is to do with the game then it is up to them to be honest and rat out the PM'er.
game still not started and is alredy interesting XD In my opinion role claiming is really risky..personally i think i will suspect everyone that will role claim:|
On May 30 2010 05:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: Question: The rules say no PMs, is there any way to enforce that or is it honor system?
I've seen a few well known players talking on a program about a game with no PMs. Not going to name any names or anything, but it's something that can't really be enforced 100%. You can't really stop people from using another program to talk if they're going to, but I am against anything that compromises the integrity of the game as the host wants it run. Though it isn't fair, it's how it is. Best to just ignore it at all. It's not as bad as steroids in baseball or anything.
On May 30 2010 05:33 DarthThienAn wrote: yoosefull fakt: Only Vanilla Town and Scum Godfather are able to day kill. Both show up innocent to alignment checks. So the Godfather is veryyy problematic. No rolecops this game either. There is no positive way to catch the godfather, minus the good ol' deduction and analysis (or luck).
This is why we need to take it slower than the other day kill game that ran on TL. We have to get people to post, or else we have absolutely no way of finding the GF. Blazing through the days gives us no information.
I'm not saying no one should shoot, just that we need some discussion of who the best targets are before we start gunning. In the last game basically all the active players got shot while the mafialurkers just waited it out.
the cop should never check anyone that shoots, unless they are confirming their sanity, because it's useless and will always show Innocent, unless they are Miller
This is actually a decent idea. Every cop is going to have to check his sanity somehow, although millers could prolong a cop being sure of his sanity.
What are peoples thoughts on watcher claiming? I am personally in favour, mafia only have 1KP which means the medic can permanently protect the watcher and it means we can be organised from the very first night.
The Godfather then is the only one who could kill the watcher but in doing so he would have to give himself away.
Serial Killers complicate things slightly, but then the only way the watcher would die is if 1 of the serial killers happens to try to kill him, and the mafia put a hit on the watcher as a gamble hoping the serial killers do.
I propose that night 1 the Watcher comes forward anyway, there are arguments for not doing so, although the pro's outweigh the cons imo. Oh and if Watcher catches a red on night 1 then obviously claim but I assume that would be a given.
It's a shame PM's arnt allowed because then the watcher could claim and everyone could roleclaim to him safely.
I have missread the roles, we have a cop as well so potentially two people who could roleclaim early and have medic prot. In which case I'd suggest ignoring the above and only claiming once you find a red player, which goes for Cop or Watcher.
I need to stop typing... there is sane, insane paranoid or weak which apparently applies to the doctor as well. Anyone mind explaining how they work? i can understand "weak" for doctor but the others don't make much sense.
Personally I think this game is going to be really hard for the town. 3 people dying a night, and potentially a bunch of people dying on some random night from the bomber.
4 deaths per full cycle = 5 days, unless we get some serial killers. Not cool =[. (this is really rough math, not trying too hard to lay out the entire situation at this point). Point is, Radfield's right in that we need to be very careful about what we do.
No one should ever claim their roles, unless they have something that could benefit the town. That's normal for any mafia game though. In this game, consider holding back until you have two potential targets.
---
I feel like town needs to be extremely lucky or good to win this setup -_-. damn, lol.
No it's ok it was just doubled, the no PM aspect of this seems somewhat unbalanced. There seems no way the Watcher or Cop can ever be comfortable enough that they will be protected to roleclaim and reveal reds. Say, in the best scenario, Doctor, Medic and Cop all have the ability to PM. In order to safely come out and claim the Watcher or Cop must be sure that they will be protected and yet the only way they can be sure is if the Doctor figures out their true role and manages to PM them. Which is in turn impossibly beyond guesswork because Cop//Watcher cannot claim untill they are safe (unless they gamble their life to kill a red).
I've written this haphazardly but if you can follow it, is this a fair assessment?
Just in case I'm not here in around 5 hours to post the game still starts. Remember we are starting at Night 0, so night roles will all be able to act.
@Darth: There is only one 'serial killer' and one 'bomber'. But both are labeled as serial killers in the remaining players spot. So we actually only have 2 people dying per night. One from the mafia, and one from the SK.
Idea for shooting. Vote on who does it, and vote on who to shoot. It will be unofficial, of course.
Don't randomly shoot just because. Never ever do that.
Following this, I have an idea to help the cop figure out his sanity, but it might not be solid. Miller really messes things up.
Check someone who says he's vanilla town (ie me, BB, Xelin), and have that person be the one who shoots the next day.
Results - Innocent & Shoots: 1) You're sane. 2) He's miller and you're insane. We could kill to confirm but I kind of don't like that.
Innocent & Doesn't Shoot: - If we follow the plan this option shouldn't occur - uhh, why didn't he shoot? Someone shoot him, or shoot the person who shot like we told them not to. Doesn't help the cop at all. BUT. 1) He's town and didn't shoot for some reason. 2) He's mafia/miller and you're insane.
Scum & Shoots: 1) You're paranoid and effectively role-less this game - a Vanilla Towny in the traditional sense. Forget about whatever comes next. 2) He's miller (here comes the reason why this isn't solid) and you're sane. 3) He's Godfather and you're insane. 4) He's town and you're insane. There's really no way to distinguish between 2, 3, and 4 -_-.
Scum & Doesn't Shoot: 1) You're paranoid and effectively role-less this game - a Vanilla Towny in the traditional sense. Forget about whatever comes next. 2) He's mafia and you're sane. Town shoot him plz. 3) He's town/Godfather and you're insane, but why didn't he shoot? Shoot him if it's his fault.
Someone check if my logic works out. I'm not sure this plan is good. But maybe someone here can improve it somehow so I'm putting it out there.
In particular, cop, I don't mind if you check me out Night 0, and I can follow up by being the shooter the next day. Or we can replace me with whoever else doesn't mind doing this.
To review:
Plan: Vote on someone to be the shooter, and vote on someone to be the target. Cop checks the shooter to figure out his sanity.
On May 30 2010 07:57 Radfield wrote: @Darth: There is only one 'serial killer' and one 'bomber'. But both are labeled as serial killers in the remaining players spot. So we actually only have 2 people dying per night. One from the mafia, and one from the SK.
Don't randomly shoot just because. Never ever do that.
I was mafia during the last game where everyone could day kill, and I got rolechecked by a DT, but people were so stupid that they just kept getting pissed off and killing random people, which made me giggle. So yeah, random kills are good for the mafia.
So, agreeing with people here, we should still vote in this thread on who to kill. If you are town, don't do any stupid OMG my instincts so good this guy's so totally scum man.
The only mafia that can kill during the day is the godfather, so I think the best way to control this is that we should lynch unobeying shooters. As in if someone shoots without us agreeing that they should take a shot and shooting someone we don't agree on, then they should be killed the next day.
We also should not only vote on who to shoot but also who should do the shooting. Either we should go for: 1) Someone who is "confirmed vanilla townie" to shoot 2) Someone who is very suspicious of being mafia to shoot, so if they can't shoot then we know we should shoot them the next day unless they claim, and if they claim we can try to verify them at night.
The problem with the second option is that this might cause us to out our medics/dts/etc. too easily because they would have to claim to explain why they're not shooting.
The other issue is to balance between how much information we give mafia and how much we should spread out our shooting.
Strategy #1: Keep the shooting down to as few people as possible. This gives everyone very little information on who is vanilla townie, so it keeps our power roles safer.
Strategy #2: Spread out the shooting. This gives town more information to narrow down who the mafia are, but this also gives mafia more information on who are blue roles. The other thing is the more you shoot the less frequent you can shoot, so we would end up with less people who could potentially shoot during a specific day later during the game if we do this.
So basically: I think as town we should definitely develop a system for deciding WHO shoots WHO. If you disagree, speak up before you do something (don't just say screw it I'm not following this because town is being stupid, kill:someone else instead). We should not take anyone's argument/justification for what they did after the fact. So if the godfather shoots a townie he can't just try to weasel himself out of it afterwards. We should make this a normal majority lynch game where people vote in the thread, but also make sure to vote for who you think should do the killing (something we can do is have someone who we suspect to be mafia to do the killing, and if they can't do it we shoot them. So definitely we need a couple active people who do last minute emergency killing if mafia typed in kill:--- or just lurked and didn't do their thing.) So it'll be kind of like the three kingdoms game, where people vote on who to kill and who to give their armies to.
This was a bit long and scattered, sorry. Dx Let me know what you think of this plan.
Also, if we implement this idea of shooting shooters who disobeyed the towns orders, then if you are a townie PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't be silly and go shoot someone because you're just so 99% sure they're mafia even though no one in the thread believes you. Even if they turn out mafia, I think we should still kill you because we should work together as town.
I'd change it to "only shoot shooters who shoot and shoot a green but if in shooting the shooter shoots a shot at a red the the shooter should not be shot"
I don't agree. Sure it's great if they get a red, but I think it encourages people to act in stupid heroic acts where they think oh I'm so sure this guy's a red so I'll shoot him and I'll be okay.
So just to make sure, your saying if someone shoots without town consent and the person they kill turns out to be mafia, you think we should kill them anyway?
On May 30 2010 09:26 Korynne wrote: Wee mafia time~
KORYNNE'S MAFIA.
lol jk.
On May 30 2010 09:26 Korynne wrote: Wee mafia time~
So, agreeing with people here, we should still vote in this thread on who to kill. If you are town, don't do any stupid OMG my instincts so good this guy's so totally scum man.
The only mafia that can kill during the day is the godfather, so I think the best way to control this is that we should lynch unobeying shooters. As in if someone shoots without us agreeing that they should take a shot and shooting someone we don't agree on, then they should be killed the next day.
We also should not only vote on who to shoot but also who should do the shooting. Either we should go for: 1) Someone who is "confirmed vanilla townie" to shoot 2) Someone who is very suspicious of being mafia to shoot, so if they can't shoot then we know we should shoot them the next day unless they claim, and if they claim we can try to verify them at night.
The problem with the second option is that this might cause us to out our medics/dts/etc. too easily because they would have to claim to explain why they're not shooting.
The other issue is to balance between how much information we give mafia and how much we should spread out our shooting.
Strategy #1: Keep the shooting down to as few people as possible. This gives everyone very little information on who is vanilla townie, so it keeps our power roles safer.
Strategy #2: Spread out the shooting. This gives town more information to narrow down who the mafia are, but this also gives mafia more information on who are blue roles. The other thing is the more you shoot the less frequent you can shoot, so we would end up with less people who could potentially shoot during a specific day later during the game if we do this.
So basically: I think as town we should definitely develop a system for deciding WHO shoots WHO. If you disagree, speak up before you do something (don't just say screw it I'm not following this because town is being stupid, kill:someone else instead). We should not take anyone's argument/justification for what they did after the fact. So if the godfather shoots a townie he can't just try to weasel himself out of it afterwards. We should make this a normal majority lynch game where people vote in the thread, but also make sure to vote for who you think should do the killing (something we can do is have someone who we suspect to be mafia to do the killing, and if they can't do it we shoot them. So definitely we need a couple active people who do last minute emergency killing if mafia typed in kill:--- or just lurked and didn't do their thing.) So it'll be kind of like the three kingdoms game, where people vote on who to kill and who to give their armies to.
This was a bit long and scattered, sorry. Dx Let me know what you think of this plan.
By lynch you mean SHOOT.
I'm in favor of option 1, and keeping our blue ppl undercover. As a general case, of course.
Defintely spread out the shooting to confirm as many shooters as we can.
Note: whoever shoots day 1 is potential godfather, in my eyes.
The format of voting is easy. ##Vote Shooter: DarthThienAn ##Vote Kill: Korynne
On May 30 2010 09:30 XeliN wrote: I'd change it to "only shoot shooters who shoot and shoot a green but if in shooting the shooter shoots a shot at a red the the shooter should not be shot"
or something like that xD
That's an eyeful o-o. I mostly agree with that since there's only 4 mafia this game so it'd be retarded to kill your teammates. Doesn't clear you 100% but as a general guideline, that works.
On May 30 2010 09:51 DarthThienAn wrote: I'm in favor of option 1, and keeping our blue ppl undercover. As a general case, of course.
Defintely spread out the shooting to confirm as many shooters as we can.
Wait, you just made a contradicting statement. Do you think we should spread out shootings or keep them to as few people as possible? xD (you just said i'm in favour of 1 but definitely do 2 xD)
On May 30 2010 09:51 DarthThienAn wrote: The format of voting is easy. ##Vote Shooter: DarthThienAn ##Vote Kill: Korynne
On May 30 2010 09:30 XeliN wrote: I'd change it to "only shoot shooters who shoot and shoot a green but if in shooting the shooter shoots a shot at a red the the shooter should not be shot"
or something like that xD
That's an eyeful o-o. I mostly agree with that since there's only 4 mafia this game so it'd be retarded to kill your teammates. Doesn't clear you 100% but as a general guideline, that works.
Like I said earlier. I would want to instate shoot all disobedient shooters to discourage townies from trying to be heroic. Think about it this way, some random townie comes along and he's like OMG THIS GUY'S SO MAFIA but town isn't listening to him. Do you think he's more likely to shoot if he's definitely going to die either way or if he only dies if the guy turns out mafia? ESPECIALLY if he's just omg so sure that guy's mafia? Like it's for a deterrent, so townies don't go crazy shooting on their instincts like the other game.
It's a difficult position because on the one hand you want to discourage anyone from vigilantism and so having a "anyone who shoots without town consent is killed" makes sense. Yet at the same time shooting someone who kills a red, purely on that principle seems to me stupid, but I'll say extreme.
On May 30 2010 09:51 DarthThienAn wrote: I'm in favor of option 1, and keeping our blue ppl undercover. As a general case, of course.
Defintely spread out the shooting to confirm as many shooters as we can.
Wait, you just made a contradicting statement. Do you think we should spread out shootings or keep them to as few people as possible? xD (you just said i'm in favour of 1 but definitely do 2 xD)
On May 30 2010 09:30 XeliN wrote: I'd change it to "only shoot shooters who shoot and shoot a green but if in shooting the shooter shoots a shot at a red the the shooter should not be shot"
or something like that xD
That's an eyeful o-o. I mostly agree with that since there's only 4 mafia this game so it'd be retarded to kill your teammates. Doesn't clear you 100% but as a general guideline, that works.
Like I said earlier. I would want to instate shoot all disobedient shooters to discourage townies from trying to be heroic. Think about it this way, some random townie comes along and he's like OMG THIS GUY'S SO MAFIA but town isn't listening to him. Do you think he's more likely to shoot if he's definitely going to die either way or if he only dies if the guy turns out mafia? ESPECIALLY if he's just omg so sure that guy's mafia? Like it's for a deterrent, so townies don't go crazy shooting on their instincts like the other game.
I meant option 1 from the numbered list.
We also should not only vote on who to shoot but also who should do the shooting. Either we should go for: 1) Someone who is "confirmed vanilla townie" to shoot
rather than
2) Someone who is very suspicious of being mafia to shoot, so if they can't shoot then we know we should shoot them the next day unless they claim, and if they claim we can try to verify them at night.
but I like Strategy #2: Spread out the shooting. This gives town more information to narrow down who the mafia are, but this also gives mafia more information on who are blue roles. The other thing is the more you shoot the less frequent you can shoot, so we would end up with less people who could potentially shoot during a specific day later during the game if we do this.
So, spread out the shooting to confirmed towines.
Uhhh. Yeah you're right. But it's just a bad situation.
On May 30 2010 10:00 XeliN wrote: It's a difficult position because on the one hand you want to discourage anyone from vigilantism and so having a "anyone who shoots without town consent is killed" makes sense. Yet at the same time shooting someone who kills a red, purely on that principle seems to me stupid, but I'll say extreme.
It's hopefully not a big deal and we can deal with it at the time...
But like, I agree it's dumb to kill someone after they've killed a mafia, it's just that if we don't say that, it makes townies more likely to be all heroic and try to kill mafia on their own agenda. I don't think we should focus on that though.
I'll make a list of people who haven't posted yet in a sec.
Okay so Ace said role PMs should've been out by the time he posted, which was at 2:30 on May 30th. So this will be the time I take into consideration if I say someone has posted elsewhere after the game has started but not yet on this thread. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's way too early though, so like whatever. Plenty of time for people to talk. Also we should make sure to do the shooting say 1 hour before the day should end. And make sure we have backup shooters (to do the job if someone goes inactive or can't shoot because they have a role). So like, if you are vanilla make sure to check close to day ending time and shoot whoever the target is supposed to be if the shooter didn't do it. Also make sure you don't duplicate efforts (as in reveal your role to town when you didn't have to) by refreshing the page right before posting kill:whoever.
On May 30 2010 10:06 XeliN wrote: Thats not a solution, my point is based upon the hypothetical that someone DOES shoot for their own reasons and kills a red.
Simply saying "don't do it" doesn't really help when pondering a situation where it actually does happen.
so last time we played this game, a good strat that we started with was a randomly generated list of numbers and that's how we determined shooter and target.
i think even if someone were to hypothetically shoot without the town consent and kills a red, he does not deserve to be shot in retaliation because it is very likely that he is town and not the god father
1) Someone who is "confirmed vanilla townie" to shoot
we should use shooting as a way to confirm townies because only 1 out of everyone that can shoot is scum. once you have shot, you shouldn't shoot again until everyone who can shoot has already done so. that way we limit the god father to only shooting once. however, if someone does shoot without the town's consent and he has already shot, then i believe this person should be shot in retaliation since he isn't playing pro town.
DarthThienAn - Posted Amber[LighT] - Hasn't posted yet after game started tree.hugger - Has posted elsewhere after Ace PM'd johnnyspazz - Has not posted yet after game started L - Has not posted yet after game started Iaaan - Posted Radfield - Posted BrownBear - Posted Nikon - Has not posted yet after game started Vivi57 - Has posted elsewhere after Ace PM'd citi.zen - Has not posted yet after game started ~OpZ~ - Has not posted yet after game started motbob - Has posted elsewhere after Ace PM'd Korynne - Posted (lol forgot to put that there the first time xD) LunarDestiny - Posted ohN - Hasn't posted yet after game started LuDwig- - Posted TwoToneTerran - Posted Xelin - Posted Chezinu - Didn't post here to join, so must've PM'd Ace or something? No posts.
Should be correct I think... >.<;; Is there an easier way to check when someone's last post was? xD I went through their posts and had to check all the threads that had new posts on May 30th.
People don't get it. They are not getting shot in retaliation for disobeying town. The rule would be in place to DISCOURAGE people from trying to be the hero and trying to kill mafia.
But seriously, if people read and don't do stupid shit then like this shouldn't happen.
The problem with confirming townies is that that allows mafia to pick off all the power roles.
power roles aren't the key in winning this game. because the mafia can't shoot, it makes us rely less on the power roles since we have such a easy way of finding mafia. we don't need to do any post analysis until we reach the godfather. as long as we have a solid plan and people follow it, i think this game setup is very easy to win. last time people let their emotions control their actions and it lead to many unnecessary shootings. basically people were f5ing to see when night would end just so they could shot whoever they wanted.
hey guys we can't just go killing people who shoot stupidly; we will never kill mafia that way. What we need to do is unleash our hatred and flame the noobie until they quit mafia forever/kill themselves/get banned or something, so they can't screw up mafia games anymore.
I don't agree with the above at all, tbh your too influential for your own good and somehow people just go along with it.
If you have an actual plan outline it, unless doing so would negate from it's effectiveness in which case why bring it up now at all?
Anyway Medic, protect who you wish no input on that, DT I would suggest not checking someone simply because a player randomly tells you too with no explanation, although if you think Korynne or anyone else is suspicious or someone persuades you with argument then go for it.
Basically the above post is completely meaningless in my eyes and untill L explains himself i'd hope it be treated as such.
On May 30 2010 12:47 XeliN wrote: I don't agree with the above at all, tbh your too influential for your own good and somehow people just go along with it.
If you have an actual plan outline it, unless doing so would negate from it's effectiveness in which case why bring it up now at all?
Anyway Medic, protect who you wish no input on that, DT I would suggest not checking someone simply because a player randomly tells you too with no explanation, although if you think Korynne or anyone else is suspicious or someone persuades you with argument then go for it.
Basically the above post is completely meaningless in my eyes and untill L explains himself i'd hope it be treated as such.
What's wrong with having a reputation as a good player? o.o
On May 30 2010 09:27 Korynne wrote: Also, if we implement this idea of shooting shooters who disobeyed the towns orders, then if you are a townie PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't be silly and go shoot someone because you're just so 99% sure they're mafia even though no one in the thread believes you. Even if they turn out mafia, I think we should still kill you because we should work together as town.
We can't credibly commit to wasting this much time on these disciplinary killings - it can easily lead to a shooting spree and a mafia win.
On May 30 2010 13:01 DarthThienAn wrote: ebwop: what I mean to say is, it doesn't matter who he is, what matters is whether or not he makes sense.
But he doesn't make sense to me, so I wouldn't follow his plan XD
We won't have a choice if he just goes ahead and shoots. As such, interested to hear his plan.
Keep in mind the GF can shoot during the day AND is undetectable through role-checks.
I will have more time during the week, as usual. Hopefully there will be more content up by then as well.
On May 30 2010 12:39 L wrote: Sup I'm taking the shot tomorrow.
I also have a nice plan setup to give us a few confirmed roleclaims per day.
Medic, gimme some love, because I expect to be shot tonight.
Also: DT check korynne.
C U on the flipside.
Regarding the whole shooting nonconsensus shooters....I dunno...I'm stuck between a repeat of Caller's game, and cringing on the possibilities of that actually occuring repeat.
Dunno if we should let L get the day kill without telling us his plan. That's already increasing the threat of popping triggers too early... Who would you kill? Would you f5 the thread just to shoot first? Or would you agree to wait until the end of the day?
i think its a good idea to start shooting the people who haven't posted because we wouldn't be able to rely on them to shoot to confirm themselves as shooters anyway
This is really interesting. It's like the 2 family game all over again. For now, we just need to start assigning people to roles. The very WORST thing we could possibly do is to protect a hit on someone anti town. Alot of how we do will depend on the sk/bomber managing to take out some scum and on the scum hitting the sk or bomber.
The longer days last, the better off we'll be so the most important thing is to let days stretch on for atleast 12 hours. 12 hours of discussion > no discussion at all.
On May 30 2010 12:47 XeliN wrote: I don't agree with the above at all, tbh your too influential for your own good and somehow people just go along with it.
If you have an actual plan outline it, unless doing so would negate from it's effectiveness in which case why bring it up now at all?
Anyway Medic, protect who you wish no input on that, DT I would suggest not checking someone simply because a player randomly tells you too with no explanation, although if you think Korynne or anyone else is suspicious or someone persuades you with argument then go for it.
Basically the above post is completely meaningless in my eyes and untill L explains himself i'd hope it be treated as such.
Nah, I'd rather not outline the plan until tomorrow because mafia are choosing a kill target and there's nothing to benefit from telling them if I'm a good target to kill or whether or not they should be afraid of my plan. Why ask for information if it only benefits mafia during this cycle?
Basically I'm giving you a heads up that I'm taking the shot because the town never listens to "lets be friends and not shoot people" and its impossible to police the town because people waver and go "i'm pretty sure the idiot is town". Either we metagame hard and 100% shoot everyone who takes a free shot, or we just let everyone take free shots. I'd prefer the former, but given how prior games have unfolded, the latter is more likely.
I probably WILL get shot tonight, so medic be a dear and gimme some love. DT please check korynne because its important for the plan and also because korynne is fishy as shit.
I'm going to need the majority of players playing to be reading the thread tomorrow for this to work, so please show up. Thanks.
On May 30 2010 09:50 Korynne wrote: Yes. This is to deter people from acting heroic. It's not so much that I think we should kill people who kill mafia.
It's like, we think killing is bad, but we pass a death sentence anyway because it's to deter people from killing. Does that make sense?
Ok this post is really suspicious. You post a no sense strategy.. why we should kill the persont that shoot? MAFIA could not shoot at day so we are going to kill a vanilla for sure (or the mafia godfather XD) and plus we are going t owaste a day killing each other.
Sorry man, but at my eyes you are really suspicious.
On May 30 2010 09:50 Korynne wrote: Yes. This is to deter people from acting heroic. It's not so much that I think we should kill people who kill mafia.
It's like, we think killing is bad, but we pass a death sentence anyway because it's to deter people from killing. Does that make sense?
Ok this post is really suspicious. You post a no sense strategy.. why we should kill the persont that shoot? MAFIA could not shoot at day so we are going to kill a vanilla for sure (or the mafia godfather XD) and plus we are going t owaste a day killing each other.
Sorry man, but at my eyes you are really suspicious.
It makes perfect sense, but is unfortunately totally impractical, which I'm pretty sure Korynne knows.
What she's saying is that if you want to deter people from taking random shots by hanging a death sentence over them, you need to follow through even if those people get lucky and hit a red. Because if people get a free pass if they hit a red, you have no deterrant at all, because everyone who's firing is sure they're hitting a red anyways. So they'll shoot anyways.
However, it's just too impractical and time consuming to follow that plan, not to mention that people who shoot basically become confirmed townies.
Ideally people will not shoot just because they feel like it. It all boils down to this: It's an easy win for the town if we work together, it's an easy win for the mafia if we all work individually. In the last game there was a turning point where one random shot turned the game into craziness. I wouldn't be surprised if a similar thing happens this game, only by a godfather trying to screw us over. Actually it's more likely to be foolish townies.
On another note, I think it's likely I'll get shot tonight, because I have a great track record of getting killed off first night. I'm active enough to be a threat to the mafia, yet not prominent enough to get medic protection. Best of both worlds.
On May 30 2010 12:47 XeliN wrote: I don't agree with the above at all, tbh your too influential for your own good and somehow people just go along with it.
If you have an actual plan outline it, unless doing so would negate from it's effectiveness in which case why bring it up now at all?
Anyway Medic, protect who you wish no input on that, DT I would suggest not checking someone simply because a player randomly tells you too with no explanation, although if you think Korynne or anyone else is suspicious or someone persuades you with argument then go for it.
Basically the above post is completely meaningless in my eyes and untill L explains himself i'd hope it be treated as such.
What's wrong with having a reputation as a good player? o.o
Nothing whatsoever, I just wasn't happy with dictating how things ought to be done without any explanation. Also L does seem to be remarkably effective at getting people to go along with things and I didn't want that to just happen without him at least providing explanation for why we should do the things he's suggesting.
Medic on L makes sense as tbh he is the most likely to be killed (if town).
Korynne check I disagree with simply because L could be mafia and the detective//cop ought to pick someone for themselves, saying "shes scummy as hell" doesn't really outline an argument imo. I also personally don't think Korynne seems scummy at this point, based on comparing her posts//style so far to the last game I played with her where she was mafia so thats probably also why I'm arguing against this.
L picking himself as a shooter will depend on the plan he outlines. It would narrow him down to either Godfather or town which would make him far more likely to be town so seems like a good idea as he is a good person to narrow down to those two roles at an early stage..
I keep forgetting that we have a watcher and a cop, and that the cop is not very effective until he determines his alignment. Tbh doesn't matter who the cop chooses, he needs to determine his alignment before anything else. Watcher on the other hand seems like the most important role given they can be 100% sure in their findings so I would assume L is advocating the watcher watch Korynne if he legitimately thinks Kor is scummy as the cop is currently ineffective.
Night should finish in 90min if Ace is going with 12 hour night and the game starting at 12AM.
I don't see why anyone should check me unless L or anyone provides a legit argument. There's no point checking L if he claims he's going to shoot because if he's godfather he can shoot.
L, if you are planning to go over your plan tomorrow morning and then only shoot either close to the end of the 24 hour period or with "majority" consensus from town then I'm okay with that.
Cops should watch L tonight because he's saying he wants to shoot tomorrow, so that would semi-confirm your sanity. Or if L is such a target he'll die tonight and you will know for sure if he's a miller.
Also XeliN it's not ineffective for a cop to investigate someone right now. Say he investigates A, A turns scummy, then tomorrow nigh he can investigate a "confirmed townie" and hopefully we're not like 50% millers, then he knows the first guy is probably scum. So either investigate someone you think is scummy or L because he wants to shoot tomorrow (and he is likely to die tonight according to himself and the every night action seems to gravitate towards L rule).
No Korynne your missing the point, it's ineffective for the cop to investigate someone now on the basis that your doing to to try to find scum, using the watcher to do that at this point would be more effective. Although it is under the assumption that the cop lives long enough to determine the truth of his check.
Cop can either check someone they think is likely to be confirmed townie tomorrow (aka L at this point), someone likely to die (probably L or Radfield) or someone they think is scummy.
If they do the last one then they can check someone tomorrow night that's confirmed townie, aka the person who shot during the day.
If they did the first (checked L or Radfield) there's a small possibility that Radfield or L doesn't shoot/die, so then they would've somewhat wasted an investigation. But the upside is if they are good at reading people, investigating someone scummy the second night they're more likely to find someone scummy rather than just someone somewhat arbitrary the first night because there is less information.
So essentially, it's either [more likely to know sanity + less likely to catch mafia] vs. [less likely to know sanity + more likely to catch mafia]. And I think who a cop should check should be based upon their previous experience of how good they are at pinning mafia. If they're good then they should try to confirm their sanity tonight, if they're not so great then they should check someone scummy tonight and be able to confirm their sanity more easily tomorrow.
Btw I'll post a list of actives/inactives when day starts, to help with the shooting process (if we want to shoot an inactive or someone who has posted elsewhere but not here).
Just letting you guys know so the effort isn't duplicated (like if L needed a list as part of his plan).
On May 30 2010 23:34 Korynne wrote: Night should finish in 90min if Ace is going with 12 hour night and the game starting at 12AM.
I don't see why anyone should check me unless L or anyone provides a legit argument. There's no point checking L if he claims he's going to shoot because if he's godfather he can shoot.
L, if you are planning to go over your plan tomorrow morning and then only shoot either close to the end of the 24 hour period or with "majority" consensus from town then I'm okay with that.
Cops should watch L tonight because he's saying he wants to shoot tomorrow, so that would semi-confirm your sanity. Or if L is such a target he'll die tonight and you will know for sure if he's a miller.
Also, i'm going out on a BIKE RIDEEEEEEEEEEE so i'll be back in 4-5 hours. Don't shoot anyone till then because I need to tell you all what the fuck we're doing to do :3333.
Listen to me and this game is cake. Shoot randomly and we lose.
Actually, I might as well say the plan now because I'd rather not have retards shoot people while I'm away.
The plan is simple; Everyone claims straight up whether or not they can shoot immediately to me in PMs. Why PMs? Because our blue roles probably don't want to out themselves and I'm pretty sure reds and 3rd parties are going to lie. If you think I'm the godfather, look at the fucking game format; mafia can sit back and do nothing and they'll win because town never wins this format.
From that list, I'm going to randomly pick people to take the shots from the days to come, which'll let us know if they're bullshitting. Anyone who is caught lying is mafia. As our numbers decrease, this'll give us a large confirmed base of shooters. Eventually we're going to want to keep the day portion of the game to a minimum of 1hr or so until the godfather dies in order to prevent retard townies from acting. We'll set up our lists at night. I'm going to randomize things in advance.
As for who I'm going to hit and how I'm going to back up the knowledge, I'd like the DT to tell me the result of his check, because we're going get him nice and confirmed early so that I can weed through some of the people late on the hit rotation list.
If we do this, we get sanity prepared relatively early and we'll have 2 confirmations a day.
Hit potential is the only real rolecheck in a game where half of the anti-towns can avoid cop checks.
So that's that. I hope SK and mafia don't hit me, because there's a bit more i can't reveal until i actually hit someone.
On May 30 2010 11:37 Korynne wrote: DarthThienAn - Posted Amber[LighT] - Hasn't posted yet after game started tree.hugger - Has posted elsewhere after Ace PM'd johnnyspazz - Has not posted yet after game started L - Has not posted yet after game started Iaaan - Posted Radfield - Posted BrownBear - Posted Nikon - Has not posted yet after game started Vivi57 - Has posted elsewhere after Ace PM'd citi.zen - Has not posted yet after game started ~OpZ~ - Has not posted yet after game started motbob - Has posted elsewhere after Ace PM'd Korynne - Posted (lol forgot to put that there the first time xD) LunarDestiny - Posted ohN - Hasn't posted yet after game started LuDwig- - Posted TwoToneTerran - Posted Xelin - Posted Chezinu - Didn't post here to join, so must've PM'd Ace or something? No posts.
Should be correct I think... >.<;; Is there an easier way to check when someone's last post was? xD I went through their posts and had to check all the threads that had new posts on May 30th.
i was banned until last night so I wouldn't be able to post until at least this morning... which I did.
Oh no worries. I'm just starting a list. Like I said I'll make a new one when day starts. It's not like everyone has no life like me and can be on mafia all the time even if they weren't banned. =P
L this game has no PM .___. if we have to shoot my vote goes to Korynne
Reason: He is trying too hard to write everything..in my opinion he wants to appear as " a real motiveted town guy"..i don't believe this type of behaviour..however we have 24 hour to decide XD
That's a she. And I'm always this active. You should be focusing on people who aren't contributing at all or saying stupid shit like L like omg guys let's all PM me rather than me, who is actually contributing to town. -.-
(If you have a valid reason for suspecting me then let's hear it).
Ok in this game you can't have a real good reason to suspect someone (or at least at 99% this game is a "guess game"). I only find sospicious the way you act..in my opinion the mafia guys will try to take the center of the scene making us taking them as our leader(so they can kill us without problem). I am not saying "go lynch korynne" i am only saying "hey guys..look at korynne..she looks sospicious to me"
Mafia doesn't want to take the center of attention... and I'm not even saying like hey guys you should let me shoot or hey guys you should listen to what I say. All I've been suggesting is generic things that doesn't apply to me. L should be way more suspicious of trying to use town like hogging medic protection or saying he'll do the shooting.
The general rule of thumb is that mafia tries to blend in and lurk, not that they jump into the center of attention at the first opportunity. In fact most of the time people are considered town when they are not afraid of jumping into the spotlight and stuff.
I'm not saying you should just think me and L are not mafia for "jumping into the spotlight," I'm just saying that's usually not a reason people are suspected of being mafia. Half the reason people go for the lynch a lurker/inactive the first day is because mafia are more likely to want to hide and not be in the spotlight. The more I post the more likely it is for me to slip up or for someone to build a case against me if I am mafia.
Also the problem with jumping into the spotlight this game is that the only way L can do that is to be the godfather, which would be kinda dumb in my opinion because it would make him quite likely to be under suspicion and get himself killed. I hope no one claimed to L through PM because #1 it's not allowed and #2 then if he's godfather he now could possibly know blue roles or at least eliminate some choices if he's looking to pick off blues.
If you think 99% of this game is just a guessing game then IMO you shouldn't be playing mafia. I mean seriously, who wants to be in a game where everyone flips a bunch of coins and rolls a bunch of dice to determine the outcome?
This is my 2nd mafia game, but I think luck is a huge factor in mafia. It is hard to judge people with almost no information. Lets hope the result of night 1 gives us something to work with.
I don't like the idea of privately claiming to L. He could be the GF, he could be mafia (although would be retarded), and we don't know anything yet.
I would vote to kill motbob (he hasn't said nothing I've noticed yet). To early for the cop to public claim, so dunno. Anyway, lets see how night one ends, yes?
Luck is a huge factor in terms of like, oh look Zona the mafia got modkilled, or like, first day lynch. But if you're going to think that mafia is just 99% luck then I see no point in playing. Also how much luck a game is also depends on the setup of the game.
OpZ, read what people said, no claiming to L, PMs are not allowed in this game unless your role says so. (I'm not disagreeing with you, I wouldn't claim to L if it was allowed, I'm just saying it's not something we need to have a discussion about)
I don't think any blue roles should claim unless they deem it useful to the town (i.e. they found a mafia or they're about to get shot).
Ok guys, I'm extending night to 12AM tonight. Everyone that could act hasn't sent me in abilities plus there was some confusion that I wasn't around to clear up. Night 0 ends 11 hours from now. Good luck!
On May 31 2010 01:48 Korynne wrote: Mafia doesn't want to take the center of attention... and I'm not even saying like hey guys you should let me shoot or hey guys you should listen to what I say. All I've been suggesting is generic things that doesn't apply to me. L should be way more suspicious of trying to use town like hogging medic protection or saying he'll do the shooting.
The general rule of thumb is that mafia tries to blend in and lurk, not that they jump into the center of attention at the first opportunity. In fact most of the time people are considered town when they are not afraid of jumping into the spotlight and stuff.
I'm not saying you should just think me and L are not mafia for "jumping into the spotlight," I'm just saying that's usually not a reason people are suspected of being mafia. Half the reason people go for the lynch a lurker/inactive the first day is because mafia are more likely to want to hide and not be in the spotlight. The more I post the more likely it is for me to slip up or for someone to build a case against me if I am mafia.
Also the problem with jumping into the spotlight this game is that the only way L can do that is to be the godfather, which would be kinda dumb in my opinion because it would make him quite likely to be under suspicion and get himself killed. I hope no one claimed to L through PM because #1 it's not allowed and #2 then if he's godfather he now could possibly know blue roles or at least eliminate some choices if he's looking to pick off blues.
If you think 99% of this game is just a guessing game then IMO you shouldn't be playing mafia. I mean seriously, who wants to be in a game where everyone flips a bunch of coins and rolls a bunch of dice to determine the outcome?
From 3 pages we are saying that our best plan is to shoot to inactive player..do you really think that mafia will lurk now?
On May 31 2010 01:48 Korynne wrote: Mafia doesn't want to take the center of attention... and I'm not even saying like hey guys you should let me shoot or hey guys you should listen to what I say. All I've been suggesting is generic things that doesn't apply to me. L should be way more suspicious of trying to use town like hogging medic protection or saying he'll do the shooting.
The general rule of thumb is that mafia tries to blend in and lurk, not that they jump into the center of attention at the first opportunity. In fact most of the time people are considered town when they are not afraid of jumping into the spotlight and stuff.
I'm not saying you should just think me and L are not mafia for "jumping into the spotlight," I'm just saying that's usually not a reason people are suspected of being mafia. Half the reason people go for the lynch a lurker/inactive the first day is because mafia are more likely to want to hide and not be in the spotlight. The more I post the more likely it is for me to slip up or for someone to build a case against me if I am mafia.
Also the problem with jumping into the spotlight this game is that the only way L can do that is to be the godfather, which would be kinda dumb in my opinion because it would make him quite likely to be under suspicion and get himself killed. I hope no one claimed to L through PM because #1 it's not allowed and #2 then if he's godfather he now could possibly know blue roles or at least eliminate some choices if he's looking to pick off blues.
If you think 99% of this game is just a guessing game then IMO you shouldn't be playing mafia. I mean seriously, who wants to be in a game where everyone flips a bunch of coins and rolls a bunch of dice to determine the outcome?
From 3 pages we are saying that our best plan is to shoot to inactive player..do you really think that mafia will lurk now?
Shooting an "inactive player" is pretty standard on TL. Forces activity in most games by letting people who don't post know they will be the first ones killed. Also, mafia usually try and hide by not posting. We also don't want to send an inactive to do the job of killing someone. He'd be pretty useless at killing.
What I'm really worried about right now is that L could have gotten information from a couple people because they didn't realize PMs are not allowed and just did what L said because I have no idea why people just decide to listen to L.
I personally don't think he's all that good, I'm more of a Radfield fan, cuz he actually catches mafia legit and makes sense, and doesn't have the stupid I'm better than you vibe. Same with Ace, I'm reading the red army mafia thing right now and I'm definitely siding with Ace right now reading through it (don't know if Ace or L is mafia or whatever yet still on day 1 in the reading).
LuDwig-, this stuff is pretty standard (check out previous games here, or other mafia forums). Lurking gives town less information, so we want people to post, so by threatening to kill inactives/lurkers, we want to force people to post more. It's all about incentives, we want as much information as possible, and we want people to post so we get more information.
On May 31 2010 02:21 Korynne wrote: What I'm really worried about right now is that L could have gotten information from a couple people because they didn't realize PMs are not allowed and just did what L said because I have no idea why people just decide to listen to L.
I personally don't think he's all that good, I'm more of a Radfield fan, cuz he actually catches mafia legit and makes sense, and doesn't have the stupid I'm better than you vibe. Same with Ace, I'm reading the red army mafia thing right now and I'm definitely siding with Ace right now reading through it (don't know if Ace or L is mafia or whatever yet still on day 1 in the reading).
Not in the game lol Ace had his fair share of elitism in the past.
On May 31 2010 02:21 Korynne wrote: What I'm really worried about right now is that L could have gotten information from a couple people because they didn't realize PMs are not allowed and just did what L said because I have no idea why people just decide to listen to L.
I personally don't think he's all that good, I'm more of a Radfield fan, cuz he actually catches mafia legit and makes sense, and doesn't have the stupid I'm better than you vibe. Same with Ace, I'm reading the red army mafia thing right now and I'm definitely siding with Ace right now reading through it (don't know if Ace or L is mafia or whatever yet still on day 1 in the reading).
Not in the game lol Ace had his fair share of elitism in the past.
Just keep in mind Ace hates me. You couldn't count the number of times he has called me stupid.
On May 31 2010 03:19 johnnyspazz wrote: i mind it odd that a veteran player such as L could miss such a simple rule i hope no one actually PM'd L with valuable information
he gets the point..how is possible that L miss that rule? To be hones he didn't broke any rules..in fact he send no PM at all..but he makes other break the rule.. Now he have big information about some players that trusted him.
On May 31 2010 01:11 LuDwig- wrote: L this game has no PM .___. if we have to shoot my vote goes to Korynne
Reason: He is trying too hard to write everything..in my opinion he wants to appear as " a real motiveted town guy"..i don't believe this type of behaviour..however we have 24 hour to decide XD
You should not edit your posts.
Korynne is a decent active player who always tries hard (see last game). No reason to start with her in my view.
On May 31 2010 02:03 LunarDestiny wrote: This is my 2nd mafia game, but I think luck is a huge factor in mafia. It is hard to judge people with almost no information. Lets hope the result of night 1 gives us something to work with.
Nah it's only for certain setups, and sometimes in the beginning.
Y'all don't make no sense. I come back after some 14 hours and nothing useful is up. Anyone have a legitimate plan? lol.
I think that "shoot inactive" strategies really don't hold much water in this set-up. There will be two people dying each night, and one a day, plus one wild-card if someone blows up. Point is, people will be dropping like flies.
I think we should try to run votes during each day, even though they aren't officially sanctioned. Once we get a consensus choice for whom to kill, we should nominate three people at random to take the shot. The first person who has been nominated to take the shot should do so.
I think if we play this way, we can squeeze a lot more information out of this game than we could normally. We'd get people's votes on record, and if we nominated people who couldn't shoot because their rolls prevented it, (Two blue roles, three red roles, and one (two?) black roles) then we might get some more interesting information.
In sum; - Vote during the day in the thread. - Once a consensus is reached, the first three names posted are nominated to shoot. (Or perhaps people could nominate someone with their vote?) - First person to see that they are nominated shoots.
we should have a list of numbers from 1-20 and randomize it and use that to determine shooters. the only problem with that plan is that we need to have a list of numbers from a confirmed townie or else it could just be a list created by mafia to benefit themselves.
Oh, and if you have the option wait until day to claim. There's no point to starting up the train so early if Ace is going to be changing times and shit.
On May 30 2010 11:37 Korynne wrote: Chezinu - Didn't post here to join, so must've PM'd Ace or something? No posts.
Should be correct I think... >.<;; Is there an easier way to check when someone's last post was? xD I went through their posts and had to check all the threads that had new posts on May 30th.
Your correct. I didn't want to post in the thread before the game started because I didn't want to get shot on day one. I have finally built up the courage to post and decided not to live in fear! So here I am!
My thoughts so far: First thing I noticed besides the capability of getting shot on day one was that there are no pms this game! That means my notorious pming ability (or annoyance) is gone! Now we have to speak openly in public. I would try and use code words or create puzzles and riddles to communicate to a select few, but that has proven to fail in the past. So what shall I do then? I guess I could try playing sane like I attempted to in the past and just be honest about everything. I think it will actually work this game! Why? Because the temptation of pms are gone and I may have a gun pointed at my head.
I think everyone should be as open as possible this game and encourage one another to talk. If someone who hasn't talked in a long time starts talking, don't bash him or he might turn back to his introverted ways.
Do not believe the lies of people who question this thought process. They may approach us with question like "Do you REALLY want to chat?" I say YES WE DO!!! But don't attack these people too much for they are just lacking in understanding. We should just inform them politely and guide them into a sound mind.
To prove that I will not play brown I would kill brownbear. Then go on a rampage filled with symbolic meanings that portray a distorted view and cause chaos. Tempting but I'm resisting.
If I was a bomber (if there would have been one): + Show Spoiler +
I would try to get permission to use brown as the codeword and pretend to make a statement about how I would be b***** this game. I would censor the word or something in order to get someone to quote me and fill in the blanl
But I will resist these paths though they are easy and fun...oh the temptation just talking about them!
I can't help myself - I need to be a little crazy here:
ROLE CLAIMING DAY ONE!!!!! I AM A TOWNIE!!!! Muaahahahah!!
But in all seriousness I started off serious.... It just to hard to play the sane game! How about a play a crazy good guy who tells the truth but in a dramatic fashion? OK, I think I will do that.
Oh yeah.. I just remember something after going crazy above, I go insane publicly when I don't have my pms to counterbalance my sanity.... so true but I can't help it so I guess I'll embrace it!
So my plan this game is the same every game: go with the flow and make up plans and change constantly throughout the game while at the same time remaining true to key values. This game the key value will be being honest.
Other games I played mad detective ( acting crazy as usual but actually having a role that I could use) , being brown (playing both sides to avoid death aka being selfish or lukewarm), then I played the crazy detective ( I tried building a town circle which kept dieing forcing me to rebuilt it - even if the circle was only semi-real . I played the brown role that game as well.. I get selfish.. This game I will try not too.. but then again I may fall into temptation...)
NOTE: Though appearing crazy, I'm telling the truth. I just have too much fun acting crazy... It is what makes this game fun for me. So please, allow me the freedom to enjoy this game with my rambles. If it annoys you... well you can skip my posts.. but then you might miss out... But if I play not to annoy certain people - this game wouldn't be fun... I may be over-analyzing this too much from other people's perspective - but I can't help it. I have already over-analyzed how I over-analyze too much and have come to the conclusion to that I can't help myself. So many thoughts about nothing and the game has only begun... I guess am ready to play now. I have my game plan (though it is never a solid plan - its more abstract... it's a more of a mindset to approaching the game..). Will now start reading other people's post. I hope you enjoy my rambles and distinct grammar for all you grammar analyst! HAVE FUN! note: there are no hidden codewords in this post unless you believe I subconsciously create them... Now I shall end my rant...must stop...(now questioning if I should even read what I wrote myself but decides not to and continues to write his stream of thoughts until he finds the ability to hit submit...then wonders if he should end the state with an ")" but forces himself to neglect it or tries to mentally but finds he is still typing...must kill Post!!!ARGHAAGAHGHD!GH
Ace every single person, if forced, is going to wrire "I can shoot"
Mafia will pretend, SK//Bomber obviously have to although they might pretend to have a blue role and just try to stay silent for as long as possible on what that role is.
Blue roles will obvisouly have to publically say "I can shoot" or put a big sign on their heads telling the mafia who to lynch.
Basically your idea is dumb and currently I'm gonna point FoS at you for actively trying to control people do in a way which would clearly be detrimental to the town succeeding.
Lol, a "decent active player who always tries hard." xD Thanks citi.zen? xD
Also XeliN I think you don't mean Ace but someone else...seeing as Ace is running the game. xD
Remember guys we need backup shooters, because if mafia is told to shoot they will probably just type kill and then everyone else is like okay time to wait for night now and then it's like oh shit noone got killed.
Also, I think someone brought this up (I don't know if the nominating idea is the same as this) but I think we should make the two most suspicious people (as town votes them to be) kill each other. So then we can clear one suspicious person and kill one suspicious person at the same time (minus godfather, but I say we deal with that separately anyway).
Oh rofl, i was going to write something about Red Army Mafia and Ace being a bad ace in that game when you said you were going over it, but then felt compelled to show why L is being strangely unhelpful this game.
On May 31 2010 04:14 XeliN wrote: Ace every single person, if forced, is going to wrire "I can shoot"
Mafia will pretend, SK//Bomber obviously have to although they might pretend to have a blue role and just try to stay silent for as long as possible on what that role is.
Blue roles will obvisouly have to publically say "I can shoot" or put a big sign on their heads telling the mafia who to lynch.
Basically your idea is dumb and currently I'm gonna point FoS at you for actively trying to control people do in a way which would clearly be detrimental to the town succeeding.
Oh wow. Did you read this post before sending it in?
1) I'm not Ace 2) Telling the mafia who to lynch? Interesting slip of the tongue. 3) Detrimental to the town succeeding? If everyone claims they can shoot, we're essentially at par with where we started.
The admitted shooter list is going to be cut into groups and forced to shoot one after the other. We aren't going to use random lists or any bullshit. Its going to be based on a number of factors which we'll have when people claim. If blues claim to be able to shoot, they'll die if they're up to shoot and can't. Similarly, if 3rd parties or goons decide to pretend and get put into the block, they'll be shot too.
A bunch of people seem really worried that the town is going to actually be organized this game, which is good. This is a very, very easy game if we kill the sk or bomberman by day 3. Without a lynch requirement there's nothing to skew voting. As long as we run a decent plan consistently, we can go straight to day 7 with a bunch of confirmed innocents.
We know how many people are going to be non-shooters. We'll know precisely how many are lying once the claims come in.
The main objective at this point in the game is to get the town to agree to follow a plan and not do dumb shit. We've already agreed pretty much that shooting non-consensus shooters will not work, so we're forced to develop a system wherein we have out hits pre-planned during the night to avoid stupidity. If the mafia GF wants me dead its as simple as breadcrumbing suspicion about me during the night, then taking a shot while going "YOU'RE TOO POWERFUL TO BE LEFT ALONEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" like we have three people already doing. Even a townie who's deadset on shooting another townie will probably get away with it because our metagaming in prior games has been absolutely garbage.
Step 1: get people on the same rape train.
Step 2: Drive train into mafia headquarters, killing them all.
L. Explain a situation where ONE PERSON, will claim not to be able to shoot if we agree on a mass roleclaim.
Outline specifically why they would do so, how it benefits their role//the town//the mafia//the individuals.
I am essentially saying that every single person, town, mafia or blue or lone warrior, will come out as saying they can shoot. Which links neatly back to your plan being useless. Please explain otherwise.
And also explain this "It's going to be based on a number of factors which we'll have when people claim". Outline these factors.
If everyone claims whether they can shoot, then basically mafia can kill off the blues. I don't know how bad this is (considering blues don't have KP), but either way it gives mafia too much information.
I think it's much better that we only focus on 2 people per day, so our blue roles or green roles don't get outted to mafia.
I definitely don't think more people should claim their roles in this thread unless it's useful.
Right now I'm most suspicious of L, but his play feels very similar to the one in Red Army where he was townie (I totally suspected him of being mafia before reading the roles list). So I'm not FoSing L.
People need to post more so we have something to go on. The whole lynch inactives also wouldn't work in this case because we can't just vote for the two most inactive people to kill each other. >_>;;
On May 31 2010 04:37 Korynne wrote: If everyone claims whether they can shoot, then basically mafia can kill off the blues. I don't know how bad this is (considering blues don't have KP), but either way it gives mafia too much information.
I think it's much better that we only focus on 2 people per day, so our blue roles or green roles don't get outted to mafia.
I definitely don't think more people should claim their roles in this thread unless it's useful.
Right now I'm most suspicious of L, but his play feels very similar to the one in Red Army where he was townie (I totally suspected him of being mafia before reading the roles list). So I'm not FoSing L.
People need to post more so we have something to go on. The whole lynch inactives also wouldn't work in this case because we can't just vote for the two most inactive people to kill each other. >_>;;
I don't see how focusing on two people per day will be efficient (am willing to be persuaded for I don't really have a plan right now). I can, however, see it as a golden opportunity for the mafia to pit people against each other.
oh and too late for claiming - I have been doing for the past few games.
On May 31 2010 04:36 XeliN wrote: L. Explain a situation where ONE PERSON, will claim not to be able to shoot if we agree on a mass roleclaim.
Outline specifically why they would do so, how it benefits their role//the town//the mafia//the individuals.
I am essentially saying that every single person, town, mafia or blue or lone warrior, will come out as saying they can shoot. Which links neatly back to your plan being useless. Please explain otherwise.
And also explain this "It's going to be based on a number of factors which we'll have when people claim". Outline these factors.
See, you're kinda retarded because you think that all of our townies are going to claim to be able to shoot. A townie's going to want to soak up hits over other players and a few are going to fake claim non-shooter to absorb roleblocks and bombermen bombs. What's more, and perhaps the most important part; depending on how many people claim, we might not even bother hitting people on the non-shooter list because we'd probably have our 3rd parties and blues there. If that's the case, third parties are pretty much immune to our blue roles and would be FANTASTICALLY HAPPY to not be under the gun, which they would be if we asked them to shoot. Given that both have survivor cred and that neither can be night killed if i recall correctly, they stand to gain far more from obeying the town than helping mafia because mafia can't kill them while a single townie bullet can.
Now that that layer of mindgames is setup, blues should probably be honest about shit.
Then, we look at the number of players that are lying. A few people have breadcrumbed that they're going to claim something false, but those I've already picked up on. So we examine the number of legit lies. Then we take the shooter list and break it into chunks. We have a list of shooters that most people think are legit, a list of shooters that people aren't sure about. Then a list that people are suspicious of. We shoot the players in the suspicious group using players in the suspicious group depending on how many lies we have and use our DT/watchers co-ordinated by me or whomever succeeds me because I'm going to be killed night 2 or so if i get this running.
This forces members of the mafia who are outted as non-shooters to trek back to the point of the claim to attempt to convince us that they are, in fact, blue.
I have an alternative, watcher roleclaims and is the only person to do so. He (or she) co-ordinates the town and the medic protects them and we go from there. Mafia can never kill the watcher as they only have 1 kill power.
This was the plan I was going to suggest before realising that the medic role could potentially be useless. As an alternative I like Korynne's idea of each day putting forward two people who are agreed upon to be most suspicious.
I propose we call it Duelists Kingdom !
Once that has been established those two people then are given free reign, and are encourged, to kill the other person. Verify innocents (to the extent where they are innocent or Godfather) and gain information each time, it seems like a good way to go. Could be hampered by town not reaching a consensus on who are the most suspicious people e.t.c but hey we will simply have to agree.
At this point the two I would suggest would be L and Korynne, although this is merely a suggestion for a strategy the town could adopt.
Or instead of picking the two who the town agree are most suspicious simply select 2 people at random.
All the while this is going on the Watcher will be trying to find a mafia, and the Cop will be trying to find their true role//catch mafia once it's known and the medic likewise.
I'm not the bomber man, call it what you like was only a jokey name I put forward, watched abit of yu-gi-oh the abridged series earlier. As stated having the watcher come out and claim is flawed, and your right I missed that the mafia can roleblock, so simply for that reason it wouldnt work. I think no PM's really rigs//limits the town as to what they can actually do this game
Your plan however is no better whatsoever that the latter idea of having 2 people each day face off
It seems based on the idea that regular town members will pretend to have blue roles//not be able to day kill and I just flat out think that two options will come of your plan.
Everyone claims shooter. This is useless and helps us in no way
or
Some or more actual blue roles actually follow your idea and as a result the mafia simply pick them off job done...
On May 31 2010 05:08 XeliN wrote: I'm not the bomber man, call it what you like was only a jokey name I put forward, watched abit of yu-gi-oh the abridged series earlier. As stated having the watcher come out and claim is flawed, and your right I missed that the mafia can roleblock, so simply for that reason it wouldnt work. I think no PM's really rigs//limits the town as to what they can actually do this game
Your plan however is no better whatsoever that the latter idea of having 2 people each day face off
It seems based on the idea that regular town members will pretend to have blue roles//not be able to day kill and I just flat out think that two options will come of your plan.
Everyone claims shooter. This is useless and helps us in no way
or
Some or more actual blue roles actually follow your idea and as a result the mafia simply pick them off job done...
Yeah, you're pretty obviously the bomberman if you're this scared of claiming.
Not a single green townie would be worried about this plan because there's zero that hurts them in it, and our blue roles this game are incredibly weak. Even our DT is up shit's creek and we can't have any of our blue roles claim or they'll get blocked.
The key here is third parties. Only we can kill them, and as such it makes sense for town and 3rd parties to buddy up until the mafia are cut into pieces. The 3rd parties benefit from not being shot when they turn up via watcher, DT or shot roulette and we gain by having additional KP. As the game goes on they'll want to betray us, but that's to be expected.
You guys talked how many people should shoot and who should be shot on day 2, but you are missing the point that the mentality of our cop and especially doctor. Plans involving cop or doctor may backfire (ex. paranoid doctor kills watcher)
I think a better way to pick who should shoot is pressure those who are suspicious people who claim that they can shoot to do the shooting. But this can backfire if the suspicious people have blue roles.
Theres a slight difference L, I've stated that If at ANY point in the game I claim to not be able to shoot I should be killed as well as said I'd happily be put as the first to verify I can shoot.
Your point (based on my point) still applies, I do think everyone would claim to be able to shoot irrespective but that was mainly on your plan that everyone roleclaim.
On May 31 2010 05:32 XeliN wrote: Theres a slight difference L, I've stated that If at ANY point in the game I claim to not be able to shoot I should be killed as well as said I'd happily be put as the first to verify I can shoot.
Your point (based on my point) still applies, I do think everyone would claim to be able to shoot irrespective but that was mainly on your plan that everyone roleclaim.
There is no slight difference. Everyone who claims to be able to shoot who lies is going to be killed.
So I say the two most suspicious people should shoot, rather than just picking random people. Otherwise we're basically leaving our chances of finding mafia to a random number generator...
In terms of getting town to agree on who should shoot, it's simply a matter of voting and majority/plurality.
Frankly, that's not going to work because someone's going to pull the trigger earlier if given the chance. I'm not going to shoot immediately to end the day as I'm going to ask for roleclaims, but once I find out if I've been roleblocked or not + we have 70% or so of the players claimed in, we're going to start partitioning the groups. The town can input into the content of the partitions, but they're not going to influence the choices within the partitions because doing that gives 6 anti-town players with vested interests far too much vocal leverage.
I'd rather not have the mafia just stoke intra-town conflict and sit back like they normally do in this format, hence why I'm going to be a bit executive to get us moving along.
On May 31 2010 05:43 Korynne wrote: L, you will be consulting town and shooting only after majority/majority-inactives/close to the end of the day, correct?
I don't understand why L has to take such a commanding and non-consensus role on this. You make statements as if that is what is going to happen, rather than, here's an idea, what does town think?
You'd rather not have mafia stoke intra-town conflict? Well would you rather prefer the town blindly following someone who is not a confirmed townie and just do exactly as he says? Aka you.
All you have to do is pull out some shifty analysis and manipulate these "partitions." This is easily done by avoiding a certain statement someone makes or overanalyzing another statement, etc etc.
I am strongly against L's plan (which I don't exactly fully understand) unless he can explain why we should all trust him/why it's a good idea to just forget town and majority consensus.
L, I would be careful if I were you with this whole Chezinu secretly talking to people thing, what if he's the bomberman? At least typo your words just to be careful (when you mentioned Malongo).
On May 31 2010 06:43 Korynne wrote: I don't understand why L has to take such a commanding and non-consensus role on this. You make statements as if that is what is going to happen, rather than, here's an idea, what does town think?
You'd rather not have mafia stoke intra-town conflict? Well would you rather prefer the town blindly following someone who is not a confirmed townie and just do exactly as he says? Aka you.
All you have to do is pull out some shifty analysis and manipulate these "partitions." This is easily done by avoiding a certain statement someone makes or overanalyzing another statement, etc etc.
I am strongly against L's plan (which I don't exactly fully understand) unless he can explain why we should all trust him/why it's a good idea to just forget town and majority consensus.
I think it's just ideal vs. practical. L's saying that the majority plan won't happen just because people are dumb. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can really do about it, except maybe kill L.
On May 31 2010 06:43 Korynne wrote: I don't understand why L has to take such a commanding and non-consensus role on this. You make statements as if that is what is going to happen, rather than, here's an idea, what does town think?
You'd rather not have mafia stoke intra-town conflict? Well would you rather prefer the town blindly following someone who is not a confirmed townie and just do exactly as he says? Aka you.
All you have to do is pull out some shifty analysis and manipulate these "partitions." This is easily done by avoiding a certain statement someone makes or overanalyzing another statement, etc etc.
I am strongly against L's plan (which I don't exactly fully understand) unless he can explain why we should all trust him/why it's a good idea to just forget town and majority consensus.
I'm going to say this once more, and then not mention it again because I've already answered this.
In games where townies can shoot, every single game has unrolled in the following manner:
Town shoots themselves to pieces because people don't listen to the town 'plan'. Mafia sit back and let the shooting happen. Sometimes the mafia start fights between players, then step out until one or the other take a gun to the other's head.
So how does the town win a game like this? Objectively we've NEVER won a game like this as town. Why? Because we try to believe democracy will work and then someone steps out of line and things go to shit fast. So we're not doing that this game because we get rolled when we do that.
And its not just 'we get unlucky'. Its like we lose day 4 with zero mafia dead.
So if I'm the godfather and I'm looking at successful strategies in this format, you think i'd step up, go "IM GOING TO SHOOT" and draw this much attention to myself? For what? For me to get the identity of the third parties that my team can't kill at the cost of the only member that can hurt them? Nah. I'm the only one who's suggested a plan. The rest are a variation of "we kill suspicious people" which is completely bullshit.
On May 31 2010 06:47 Korynne wrote: L, I would be careful if I were you with this whole Chezinu secretly talking to people thing, what if he's the bomberman? At least typo your words just to be careful (when you mentioned Malongo).
He claimed to be a shooter.
If the bomberman wants to bomb me on day 1 and run out of explosives, he's an idiot and cannot win the game. bomberman loses or ties if his bombs do not end the game.
Well I don't understand why we can't at least have some kind of discussion, at least during the night if nothing else, regarding who to kill during the day. I'm sad that we have to resort to fuck ideals because town isn't going to follow them and just shoot shit up. But I guess if everyone thinks so (even though no one claimed they're going to be the guy to randomly shoot someone in the face like Malongo was doing) then like, I guess that's that.
But I don't see how L's plan is going to work. If town is not going to listen and shoot random people then partitioning them off isn't going to stop them from shooting random people... If town doesn't listen then no plan you make is going to make them listen. And being like okay guys this is what we're going to do with no room for discussion is not cool with me, no matter how good the plan is.
The town doesn't need to listen until the plan's fully revealed, because typically the town calms the fuck down after the first few days, hence why I'm taking the first shot. Having people roleclaim and getting them involved in seperating the lists during the night will put them in the middle of the action and make people less likely to do crazy shit.
So yeah, you get to input plenty of discussion because frankly i'm not going to be able to analyze every player in the game. As to whether or not you get to discuss the plan itself? No. Because people often use "it wasn't a consensus plan!" to justify deviation from it.
If you want to be helpful make me an activity list and start pointing out people that you think are mafia or 3rd party.
On that note, GET TO POSTING YOU INACTIVE PEOPLE. I MIGHT SHOOT ONE OF YOU.
How does town calm the fuck down after the first few days? Town surely didn't calm the fuck down in Red Army.
Like I said I'm making an activity list when day starts. (Probably will do it like 2 hours before the day is over)
Could you summarize your plan L? I'm a bit confused on the whole thing since you just vaguely mention partitions and what nots. It's fine if you are waiting until day to post it specifically. Also I am guessing you will be shooting an inactive Day 1? Definitely will not be happy if you're just going to pull the trigger without giving anyone any time to respond to anything. >_>
On May 31 2010 07:26 Korynne wrote: How does town calm the fuck down after the first few days? Town surely didn't calm the fuck down in Red Army.
Like I said I'm making an activity list when day starts. (Probably will do it like 2 hours before the day is over)
Could you summarize your plan L? I'm a bit confused on the whole thing since you just vaguely mention partitions and what nots. It's fine if you are waiting until day to post it specifically. Also I am guessing you will be shooting an inactive Day 1? Definitely will not be happy if you're just going to pull the trigger without giving anyone any time to respond to anything. >_>
That's because the red army game involved the game ending early because the game was an obvious loss. Check other games with similar formats. Go, do your readin' rainbow research before telling me about the history of games I've been in.
My plan's pretty awesome. We get everyone to claim to be a shooter or not, then something which I can say happens which helps us get someone who we can cross check, then we have dictated X shoots Y orders given the moment the day starts to avoid tactical roleblocking to have things edge towards mafia favoured duel results. We extend an olivebranch to the third parties. In particular the SK will be asked to shoot particular people. As for bombs i have no idea how we can help the bomberman, but between the two of them, they simply can't win alone, nor has any third party with a "be the last man standing" goal ever won.
But yeah, this is subject to change heavily depending on whether or not I'm roleblocked and someone doesn't listen to my hit target, how many people claim honestly, and how much certain blue roles know how the fuck to play.
If I survive tonight I can easily have this plan transferred to other people because its rather selfcontained, but they might miss out on a few of the ADVANCED GAMBITZ that i've set up, but whatever.
The only reason we're even TALKING about this during the night is because Ace decided that it would be cool to move when the night ended to fuck me over.
I have work tomorrow, 12AM start of day is not so fun because I am 99% sure shit will go down before I wake up in the morning, so I either have to stay up or not be able to participate in day 1. >_>
Also mind helping directing me to the reading rainbow list of mafia games with town killing powahs?
Yeah, I'm glad, because i checked earlier and it had the daykill post script edit, but the roleblocker quote was contradictory. Thanks for clearing that up.
The only mafia that can kill during the day is the godfather, so I think the best way to control this is that we should lynch unobeying shooters. As in if someone shoots without us agreeing that they should take a shot and shooting someone we don't agree on, then they should be killed the next day.
On May 31 2010 07:26 Korynne wrote: How does town calm the fuck down after the first few days? Town surely didn't calm the fuck down in Red Army.
That is why you are suspicious. Advocating wasting kills on townies who are retarded and shoot stupidly, when you clearly assume that people are going to shoot out of line. Does this seem like a good plan for killing mafioso? >.>
I like L's basic plan of having people role claim. Even if it forces us to out our blues, if it can lead us to reds it's worthwhile. Trading blues for reds is a decent trade in this format, because both our medic and detective are not nearly as useful. Also, I highly doubt that mafia will even be targeting our blues this game. The real threat to the mafia are the confirmed shooters.
Does it make sense for our blue roles to simply claim blue? Or should they outright state their role? By having them claim blue we can protect our watcher, who's the biggest asset to the town at this point.
One problem with role claiming is we do NOT know how many blue roles there are. We might have 1 1 1, or we might have 2 cops/2 doctors/1 watcher. We really don't know, which means we learn a lot less from role claiming.
SK should absolutely be hunting scum. They should also be doing whatever they can to make themselves a target for the mafia to prolong the town life. Bomberman is a total wildcard. Their chance of winning is very close to zero.
On that note, GET TO POSTING YOU INACTIVE PEOPLE. I MIGHT SHOOT ONE OF YOU.
Please do this. Do NOT shoot someone active. Mafia can coast so hard in this game simply by lurking.
List of inactives off the top of my head(some of these people have posted, but not much)
I advocated for lynch all unobeying shooters as a means to deter town from acting on their own. Apparently this idea doesn't work because according to L (and maybe some others) town is just not going to cooperate.
Then I asked L how the hell he expects the town to cooperate with his plan if he doesn't think they'll cooperate with my plan. He explains something about town calming down later and why he said he would shoot the first day. My impression was that games usually start okay and then once chaos ensues it just keeps going until the end.
If L or someone who was actually reading the whole discussion thinks I look scummy for this I'd be happy to argue, but taking those two posts out of context with tons of posts and context missing in between is just really not a valid reason to accuse me.
The problem with claiming blue is that you can't really verify someone to be blue. So mafia can just be like yup I'm blue and sit around for a couple turns... or we just kill our blues... which wouldn't exactly be great either. =\
Yeah I don't see what information we gain by asking for blue claims, because we're going to be treating 3rd parties like our blues and if any reds claim non-shooter, they're claiming blue anyways.
So, the plan is, once night is done (so as not to give too much info to the mafia), we all claim if we can shoot or not and run down a randomised list of shooters to shoot non shooters? If that's true then what do we do about the GF, just hope we hit early with the mafia and try to weed him out randomly in the lategame?
The idea makes sense, mathematically, I guess and it's a lot better than random shootings because that's what people want, it just seems like the GF punches a glaring hole in it, especially if the GF is one of the main corroborators of the plan. I guess there isn't much you can do about the GF, though, anyhow.
Anyhow, I don't think we can really stop L from going with his plan since he seems deadset on shooting early, and it's better than nothing, I guess.
PS: I read the linked thread but it kind of became a clusterfuck once Iaaan died -- was ace originally the GF in that? It looked like he was but then everything went to shit somewhere.
I think L's plan is flawed for the reasons I've already outlined, but as he's pointed out, because of the nature of this game there doesn't seem to be a clearly more productive plan to follow.
Let's just say when it comes for a time for everyone to claim "I can shoot, I can't shoot" I'd be very suprised if anyone at all claims not being able to.
On May 31 2010 07:37 L wrote: My plan's pretty awesome. We get everyone to claim to be a shooter or not, then something which I can say happens which helps us get someone who we can cross check, then we have dictated X shoots Y orders given the moment the day starts to avoid tactical roleblocking to have things edge towards mafia favoured duel results. We extend an olivebranch to the third parties. In particular the SK will be asked to shoot particular people. As for bombs i have no idea how we can help the bomberman, but between the two of them, they simply can't win alone, nor has any third party with a "be the last man standing" goal ever won.
I'm always concerned about L leading the town wherever. Regardless of role, L always has some magic plan that the town needs to follow and trust him and that he can't reveal right away.
So to L: please don't use "we" as a synonym for "I"
L completely mistrusts the town. He doesn't think we have the ability to vote and then shoot based on who we agree on. He thinks that someone will go rouge and shoot instantly at the start of day. I'm concerned that the person going rouge will be him.
So, instead of treating the town like idiots, I'm going to assume that we have a group of rational human beings who won't do anything too stupid and that we're perfectly capable of talking before we shoot.
So I propose we take a vote then assign korynne to shoot (since confirming he can shoot would do alot towards finding innocents).
Yeah, I prefer Korynne's plan as well. It is more systematic and easy to understand.
For L's plan, it may be a genius plan or an evil plan. But I don't like it when the town is depending only on one person who we don't know what he's about to do next.
L is pulling the same "letat cest moi' business that he always pulls.
It think it's clear that we need to compel people to shoot, but I strongly disagree that these people should be able to volunteer themselves. We learn nothing from this. The designated shooter would presumably suggest someone, the town would debate, and then after 12-18 or so hours the shooter would fire. We'd then wait to see if the shot landed, and then if it didn't, we'd straight-up shoot the shooter and exonerate the target. But of course, in such a situation, the shooter would likely not be mafia or would be the godfather.
I think it's reasonable to assume at this point that L is not vanilla mafia or one of the non-shooting roles.
However, if we agree to this plan, then we're subordinating ourselves to L's frequently porous judgement. Rather, we shouldn't let any one person be both the lawyer, the judge, and the executioner. I call upon L to suggest targets for shooting, and then we ought to nominate shooters on a first mentioned basis. Once we have these shooters and target, we compel them to shoot at the target. In this way, we widen the net of possible information we can receive, and don't risk the game on the intuition of a few players.
On May 31 2010 10:12 Korynne wrote: Iaaan, please don't take my posts out of context.
I advocated for lynch all unobeying shooters as a means to deter town from acting on their own. Apparently this idea doesn't work because according to L (and maybe some others) town is just not going to cooperate.
I don't see why you try to defend what you said before. Sure go ahead, just say that I'm completely wrong in pointing out the obvious, just brush me off and pretend that your a victim of vicious slander! Oh no, I've been accused of being mafia, defensive mode gogo!
But no. That idea is bad. Yes, people shouldn't shoot stupidly. But lynching idiots is first off all useless in regards to finding mafia, and also, it simply wont happen. Again, go look at WaW, or Callers daykill game. People came up with the exact same idea, and people supported it. I myself supported it in WaW when I was a townie, It seems reasonable at the time. I learned otherwise, and I supported the idea again in Caller's game, but this time, I supported it because I was mafia. I can't say that your mafia because of this idea (just a townie with a bad idea), because someone on either team may support lynching idiots.
Sure, L's plan is flawed to, and L always has a plan, I don't know what to think about it. Maybe having people say weather they can shoot or not is a good idea. Maybe we should have a shooting order, or elect suspicious people to do the shooting.
LuDwig- was walking through the woods, but he didn't count on running into the barrel of a gun. Bang bang! Radfield was in his field tent, cleaning his medical supplies when a voice outside chuckled. Radfield heard a trigger, but it was too late to duck. Bang bang!
LuDwig- the townie is now dead. Radfield the Sane Doctor is now dead.
FFS STOP KILLING RADFIELD.I have work, don't expect a post up very quickly.
I'm surprised people are more interested in starting an intra-townie shitstorm because they want to embark upon a known 100% fail strategy than look at the posters and find people who look bad.
Ah wait, that's par for the course when a third of the posters are anti-town.
On May 31 2010 13:20 L wrote: Ah look, day time. Time for a shootan.
Kill: Korynne
DTs, I hope you checked her as per my request, this should give you information regarding your sanity. Roleclaims should start now; Onwards brosefs, to victory.
Unhelpful.
And poor Radfield. I was going to say that the whole "protect" roleclaimers strategy went out the window, except that two posts later L, killed everything anyway.
On May 31 2010 13:31 Korynne wrote: Looks like the only reason town is going to go into chaos is cuz L started it. -.-
Or because you're spamming and not putting up that activity list. If you want to be useful, quit crying like a little girl and get to work before you're officially killed.
That goes for everyone. I told people straight up I'd be shooting and I had you picked out prior to my first post in the thread. So now we move to step 2: DT confirmation and roleclaims.
I'll do it if the town agrees to it. You're not the town, and you don't speak for the town. You're a cancer to every game we play. I hope that at the end when we've nearly killed all the mafia that we'll spare a day and take you out.
I'll do it if the town agrees to it. You're not the town, and you don't speak for the town. You're a cancer to every game we play. I hope that at the end when we've nearly killed all the mafia that we'll spare a day and take you out.
Cheers.
Pretty good pro-town commentary there. Glad to have you aboard. I'm going to put you down under can't shoot, because a townie really wouldn't be so worried.
I saw this coming too. L is absolutely convinced that people have the same self restraint as him and that they'd insta shoot anyone.
If we keep insta shooting like this, there's going to be no discussion. The mafia won't have to say anything at night because even if we reach some sort of agreement, people will just randomly shoot. And no discussion can happen during 30 second days.
I can't shoot (because i am alredy dead) XD good luck have fun!..silmply question..Was the bomberman to kill me? and if yew wich word? Tell me by pm plz XD
This wasn't a random shot. I called it like 6 pages ago, I called Korynne as the target when I told DTs to check her, and I told her to write her activity list before the day started too.
If that isn't enough breadcrumbing, I don't know what is. The reason why I shot the moment the day started was pretty much because you and tree.hugger popped out of nowhere just before the day started and frankly, I didn't like the idea of either of you playing rambo. While extra time would have been useful, its not the end of the world because we're on track with the plan.
On May 31 2010 14:05 LuDwig- wrote: I can't shoot (because i am alredy dead) XD good luck have fun!..silmply question..Was the bomberman to kill me? and if yew wich word? Tell me by pm plz XD
Bomber man didn't kill you unless someone blocked a shot tonight; SK had a hit and mafia had a hit.
Because the people who lie will be shot. Depending on how many people lie, we target different groups. If everyone is honest, for instance, besides those 3 mafia goons, the list of people who can't shoot will be treated as innocents until DT/watcher evidence shows us otherwise. By contrast, if we have like 12 people claiming they can't shoot, we might start there. Town blues are going to be masked by 3rd parties who themselves want to be left alone until the lategame rolls around.
Killing SK early would be a pro-town event, but we can let him stay alive even if he's found out by our shot designation if he preemptively claims non shooter and co-operates with us by listening to town on hits.
So, in order to see if the SK is willing to be a cool cat: please kill me during the night if you want to be treated as a blue for the purposes of the claim. If there's another medic, I'd suggest protecting one of the non-shooters and not me. I'll outline the shooter designation plan once the claims are in
What the hell just happened. L, I'm sorry, you are straight retarded. Explain why you randomly shot Korynne?
Also, remember the Caller game when we didn't shoot Radfield day 1, and he helped coordinate us to a neutral victory? Yeah, that game was awesome. Too bad we keep friggin killing Radfield.
Ahh, ok, reading back a bit, I see you called it 6 pages back or so. I still call stupid. Why kill an active player this early, when there were a whole host of inactives you could have nailed?
If it wasn't a dumb idea and following the same failstrategy we always do, I'd shoot you next day for this one.
I can shoot. If anyone shoots L, I will shoot you. I am tired of every game following the same pattern: L is a boisterous idiot and town kills him and usually loses in part because of it. Maybe some deterrence will help.
I can shoot. Safe to trust L this early in the game?
And something to note: only townies and the godfather can shoot meaning most everybody who claims they can shoot will be a townie.
On May 31 2010 17:52 motbob wrote: I can shoot. If anyone shoots L, I will shoot you. I am tired of every game following the same pattern: L is a boisterous idiot and town kills him and usually loses in part because of it. Maybe some deterrence will help.
I don't understand your logic; you call L a boisterous idiot and insist we must keep him alive?
Radfield was in his field tent, cleaning his medical supplies when a voice outside chuckled. Radfield heard a trigger, but it was too late to duck. Bang bang!
LuDwig- the townie is now dead. Radfield the Sane Doctor is now dead.
FFS STOP KILLING RADFIELD.I have work, don't expect a post up very quickly.
Aww, I was even sane.
I'd like to think I was ready for it this time... Kinda like I was just waiting in my tent for the inevitable, then uttering a small sigh when the shooter shows up
On May 31 2010 17:52 motbob wrote: I can shoot. If anyone shoots L, I will shoot you. I am tired of every game following the same pattern: L is a boisterous idiot and town kills him and usually loses in part because of it. Maybe some deterrence will help.
I don't understand your logic; you call L a boisterous idiot and insist we must keep him alive?
exactly. Killing stupid townies is terrible for the game. It basically gives mafia a free day.
That said, if motbob fails to shoot whoever shoots L, I will.
Ok I am going to be shooting L at the first available opportunity (unless someone else wishes to) thoughts on this?
Also I was roleblocked on the first night. Any counter claims, this ought to confirm me as town tbh, although theoretically mafia could not use their roleblock on night one simply to "confirm" someone in this way.
We stated at the beggining of the game that random shooters will in turn be shot. I added, and many people agreed, that we ought to add "random shooters, who go on instinct and without consulting the town, will not be shot IF they hit a red"
In my eyes L has to die, the only thing we ought to be discussing is who we want to try and confirm by shooting L. I am happy to do so, although as I am slightly more confirmed than others at this point (through roleblock claim, as I've said it's far from iron cast, but unless someone counter claims then it is telling)
As such we should consider choosing someone democratically to confirm by shooting L.
Ignoring the fact we established at an early stage that random shooters WILL be shot. And hell some people were arguing that random shooters ought to be killed even if they hit a red....
L is either a complete moron, or is the Godfather knowing precisely the kind of effect his action will provoke, and gambling on the chaos it would cause like the last game, as well as that people will not shoot him on the risk of shooting a townie.
To me the latter seems more likely as L is considered a very good player by many
Furthermore we are not risking killing a blue by shooting L.
On my phone, but I'd just like to ask wtf are you people handing the Mafia a blue list for? The doctor is even dead now - the one protection that could give the mafia pause as to who to kill. We need the dt, and more importantly the watcher for the GF, but you seem to want them dead.
There are a bunch of people wasting time saying next to nothing, parroting and using the exact same "random" shot phrase. Someone died. They weren't mafia. That's pretty much how day 1 kills go, hence why mine was telegraphed to get DT sanity information. Feigning outrage over something which was called so far in advance has 2 goals:
1) keep people from talking about mafia
2) get the town to start hatin' itself.
Like, amber's post is the most suspicious shit I've seen in the entire thread thusfar because its a zero content "me too" post in a game where mafia's going to be quiet.
So lets focus on step 2 of the plan and Get your goddamn claims in. This is IMPORTANT. When you're done that, ANALYZE THE PERSON ABOVE YOU.
If you guys are butthurt that we lost a bit of time because of WHEN the shot happened, quit posting content bare posts and make the time count.
By the way, did you get roleblocked last night?
Nope. Ace clarified the rules and stated that greens can't be roleblocked anyways because I was worried that telegraphing our shot choice would let mafia screw us over.
Why kill an active player this early, when there were a whole host of inactives you could have nailed?
Less information and Korynne was playing active enough to feign being a godfather. While we can trap the other roles using the shot roulette, there's literally nothing we can do to find a GF. Was pretty sure we wouldn't hit a mafia member on day one either, especially if I had to breadcrumb them 8 hours in advance off very little information. I did, however, try to pressure inactives into posting by putting up that "i might shoot you" post when i had positioned myself as the first shooter. After that post a few people chirped up who I have my eyes on. I'd rather not, however, set up tomorrow's shot until we have more information and people have started to analyze people.
I'd have preferred being able to wait, but a few people were hovering around the thread when the game switched to day who, quite frankly, have a demonstrated tendency to shoot early.
I would request everyone to ignore L's request for people to start roleclaiming. I personally think, like i've stated, that everyone is simply going to say "I can shoot", but on the risk that a blue is actually honest or that this aids the mafia in some way don't do it.
And the analyse the person above you bullshit is a perfect way to legitimise people making mass assertions and speculations and we get swamped down into a bog of accusations where any substantial analysis of someone is either hidden, or easily trampled.
I am going to be shooting L at the first opportunity tomorrow irrespective of whether you all agree.
"Wouldn't that make you a random shooter and as such we should kill you, hypocrite..?"
NO, we established early on random shooters will be shot, if the town choose to go back on that now thats your descision, I however, will be sticking by it. I am probably being too paranoid in thinking that it's possible people choose not to, quite frankly the most logical response for a pro-town player right now would be to kill L, and confirm someone else in doing so. But just incase there are more Motbob's out there I thought I'd come out and be frank about my intentions.
Enough angry stubbornness now! I am going to take the 1 worthwhile gem of L's posting so far and go for a bike ride, won't be back for a while but I'm hoping to come back to a sea of approval and support for my suggestion (demand...). Anything less will be thoroughly disappointing
On June 01 2010 00:08 XeliN wrote: And the analyse the person above you bullshit is a perfect way to legitimise people making mass assertions and speculations and we get swamped down into a bog of accusations where any substantial analysis of someone is either hidden, or easily trampled.
I am going to be shooting L at the first opportunity tomorrow irrespective of whether you all agree.
"Wouldn't that make you a random shooter and as such we should kill you, hypocrite..?"
NO, we established early on random shooters will be shot, if the town choose to go back on that now thats your descision, I however, will be sticking by it. I am probably being too paranoid in thinking that it's possible people choose not to, quite frankly the most logical response for a pro-town player right now would be to kill L, and confirm someone else in doing so. But just incase there are more Motbob's out there I thought I'd come out and be frank about my intentions.
This is a bad plan. We're going to get stuck in a cycle of x killed y so we need z to kill x but now we're gonna need to get w to kill z etc etc etc.
It's not going to help to just kill off the person that's the most trigger happy. It automatically puts them in a tight spot and the mafia can just sit back and lolol their way to victory.
Mafia's already sitting back and lololoing their way to the bank, but that's good for us because it gives us a pool of players to target. The only problem is that town has been very quiet too, which makes no sense whatsoever. Normally 24 hours into a game we have at least 20 game pages. Here we've got like... 7 and we've had 2 rounds of people being killed.
I asked the SK to kill me specifically to stop the cycle of people crying like leaky vaginas so that you guys can FOCUS ON CLAIMING AND SEARCHING FOR MAFIA.
On June 01 2010 00:41 Nikon wrote: Yeah, but the thing is, that the most interesting stuff happens during the day, night posting is just "Lol omg" stuff most of the time.
Did you look at the posts between the Night 0 and Day 1 posts?
That was sarcasm... This game is backwards, we are being forced to do more posting at night, not during the day. That's a good suicide technique though.
Nice, L will lead us to a glorious victory!!! His intuition is all we need - DT/watcher roles are here just a distraction. In the meantime what we need to do is kill off the rest of the veteran/active players who are likely to at some point be a problem, and role claim.
Wow, just 10 hours of sleep and I got in the shit list. My lack on post contrary to the last game I play(fucked up ROTK mafia) is because there my lack of knowledge in mafia game.
Right now, there is two sides of town and I had to choose a side. I don't think we can win that way if town is spilt in half. Since L is getting like half a dozen? of people supporting him and people do claim he has a good plan, I will watch how him use the role claim list in the future.
On June 01 2010 01:35 LunarDestiny wrote: Wow, just 10 hours of sleep and I got in the shit list. My lack on post contrary to the last game I play(fucked up ROTK mafia) is because there my lack of knowledge in mafia game.
Right now, there is two sides of town and I had to choose a side. I don't think we can win that way if town is spilt in half. Since L is getting like half a dozen? of people supporting him and people do claim he has a good plan, I will watch how him use the role claim list in the future.
People should talk more so that the B o m b _ r can kill someone. Bad gram..mar is your f riend. Does anyone have any idea what the c o d)e - w[o r=d is for the you know what?
So.. does anyone want to play hang man to make time go by faster?
I thought there are two sides of town right now. Pro-L (role claimed people) and anti-L (those who think L's plan is stupid and want L dead).
What I tried to say in the above post is the town got to stick together. Just try L's plan and see what comes out of it for a day or two. That is much better than wasting another day killing L and possibility another day killing the person who killed L.
On June 01 2010 02:27 LunarDestiny wrote: I thought there are two sides of town right now. Pro-L (role claimed people) and anti-L (those who think L's plan is stupid and want L dead).
What I tried to say in the above post is the town got to stick together. Just try L's plan and see what comes out of it for a day or two. That is much better than wasting another day killing L and possibility another day killing the person who killed L.
I am leaning towards L being innocent if Godfather is picked randomly by host and not chosen by the mafia team. So if I was the w a ...tcher, I would publically claim to L that I'm wa tch ing him. But that is me, I'm not your typical player. L usually plays to win by using logic... so based on that I would say he is innocent as long as the Godfather is picked randomly. (now this is when L posts how he thinks I'm innocent after reading this post...hopefully - I am not b r o w n!).
If the watcher can dayshoot then I personally think L is either the Watcher or Godfather. Him being plain green makes little to no sense considering how retarded he would have played if it were true.
On June 01 2010 02:42 XeliN wrote: If the watcher can dayshoot then I personally think L is either the Watcher or Godfather. Him being plain green makes little to no sense considering how retarded he would have played if it were true.
...his plan makes perfect sense to me. I might not have picked Korynne as the target, but I would have done the same thing.
On June 01 2010 02:27 LunarDestiny wrote: I thought there are two sides of town right now. Pro-L (role claimed people) and anti-L (those who think L's plan is stupid and want L dead).
What I tried to say in the above post is the town got to stick together. Just try L's plan and see what comes out of it for a day or two. That is much better than wasting another day killing L and possibility another day killing the person who killed L.
Can we call them L's team and Kira's team? Kira gogogogo.
Insane occurrences. I disagree with L on killing Korynne, but I understand why. It makes sense, but it could of been anyone...I don't like L's whole "My plan is best, we're going with it" attitude either. I mean, it's a good plan, but I keep saying you go about presenting them in the wrong way.
Anyway, who will be shooting tomorrow, and who will be shot?
On June 01 2010 03:08 XeliN wrote: Ok Darth, can you please explain to me L's plan and more importantly why it makes sense.
OK, what did he do? He shot Korynne, without everyone's say yadayada. What was he trying to accomplish? Give the cop some useful information, the whole hit a godfather/mafia/third party thing would have been a bonus. So he did that, trying to give the cop some information about his sanity.
What would the town have done without L? 1) Someone would have done what L did, except without a reason. 2) We would have talked it over and shot someone randomly. Take out the first part, and look at what L did, with a couple changes. Better to take advantage and give the cop information with a random kill than have it just be a random kill. Hopefully the cop followed what L said or else it's a bit of a waste.
The roleclaim thing makes sense too. Saying "I can shoot" isn't that hard, for anyone. I think his reasoning is that mafia will say "I can shoot" and then dodge/lurk the rest of the way, pretending that they are safe.
It's not the best plan, but it was a plan that he only needed a couple of people in order to make it work. Better than having no plan.
I'm going to go back on what I said and not shoot L tomorrow unless there is town agreement that I or someone else should. Cba to be the only one standing by the rules we outlined at the beggining and as someone already said, given most peoples current reaction it is likely to end up in a "X kills Y who is killed by Z for killing Y who is...." getting us nowhere.
For the record we ought to pick someone to kill L tomorrow and become verified in the process. L's plan is completely useless in almost every sense, and Darth has pretty much outlined why.
When asked to explain L's plan and outline why it is good he instead explained L's actions. His argument for roleclaiming making sense is that saying "I can shoot" isn't hard, and lulling the mafia into a false sense of security.
It's possible I am more against L's plan and actions simply for the irritating way he's gone about it. "This is what were doing bla bla bla, no consensus, argument or anything else useful, simply trust me i'm awesome and my intuition alone will win us this game". Thats why I said his being the Watcher seems quite plausible as he would actually have a role where adopting this kindof position is more justifiable.
Ace I just looked over the rules twice, it doesn't mention the watcher being unable to shoot, the only two roles it is specified in are Cop and Doctor thats what made me ask. That changes my position slightly on the shooting L thing, if he is green he is completely useless and ought to be killed for random shooting, and if he is red the same is true but for the opposite reason of him being completely useful (to the mafia).
On June 01 2010 03:34 XeliN wrote: I'm going to go back on what I said and not shoot L tomorrow unless there is town agreement that I or someone else should. Cba to be the only one standing by the rules we outlined at the beggining and as someone already said, given most peoples current reaction it is likely to end up in a "X kills Y who is killed by Z for killing Y who is...." getting us nowhere.
For the record we ought to pick someone to kill L tomorrow and become verified in the process. L's plan is completely useless in almost every sense, and Darth has pretty much outlined why.
When asked to explain L's plan and outline why it is good he instead explained L's actions. His argument for roleclaiming making sense is that saying "I can shoot" isn't hard, and lulling the mafia into a false sense of security.
It's possible I am more against L's plan and actions simply for the irritating way he's gone about it. "This is what were doing bla bla bla, no consensus, argument or anything else useful, simply trust me i'm awesome and my intuition alone will win us this game". Thats why I said his being the Watcher seems quite plausible as he would actually have a role where adopting this kindof position is more justifiable.
?
It was pretty useful if the cop followed the plan.
His other part is pretty useful as well, but people aren't following it.
On June 01 2010 03:39 XeliN wrote: Ace I just looked over the rules twice, it doesn't mention the watcher being unable to shoot, the only two roles it is specified in are Cop and Doctor thats what made me ask. That changes my position slightly on the shooting L thing, if he is green he is completely useless and ought to be killed for random shooting, and if he is red the same is true but for the opposite reason of him being completely useful (to the mafia).
He's only red if he's the GF. Pretty unlikely that a GF would attract so much attention so early on.
On June 01 2010 03:20 DarthThienAn wrote: The roleclaim thing makes sense too. Saying "I can shoot" isn't that hard, for anyone. I think his reasoning is that mafia will say "I can shoot" and then dodge/lurk the rest of the way, pretending that they are safe.
Yeah, except that claiming that you can shoot is kinda bad, since if you can't shoot and claim that you can, you can't prove it in any way or shape, whereas the reverse isn't true - you can prove that you can't shoot by well... not shooting. Of course, reverse psychology applies in both cases, but by this point any claim might as well be nonsense as far as figuring out who does what is concerned, given that no one takes a shot.
As far as I can tell the one useful thing L has done is potentially help a cop verify his actual role. This was done at the expense of killing a town player, and also done without outlining any argument whatsoever for why Korynne was a potential mafia other than "she seems scummy as hell".
I even outlined why I didn't think Korynne was not mafia, and that the way she had posted so far was different in style to the last game I played with her where she was actually mafia.
Some of you are quite literally letting L get away with murder...... and Darth thats a WIFOM argument (I hope I used this right..) and expecting L, a veteran player, to act in a predictable manner if he was the Godfather is wrong imo.
On June 01 2010 03:20 DarthThienAn wrote: The roleclaim thing makes sense too. Saying "I can shoot" isn't that hard, for anyone. I think his reasoning is that mafia will say "I can shoot" and then dodge/lurk the rest of the way, pretending that they are safe.
Yeah, except that claiming that you can shoot is kinda bad, since if you can't shoot and claim that you can, you can't prove it in any way or shape, whereas the reverse isn't true - you can prove that you can't shoot by well... not shooting. Of course, reverse psychology applies in both cases, but by this point any claim might as well be nonsense as far as figuring out who does what is concerned, given that no one takes a shot.
what are the chances that you'll get picked? ^^ that's what I did.
On June 01 2010 03:47 XeliN wrote: As far as I can tell the one useful thing L has done is potentially help a cop verify his actual role. This was done at the expense of killing a town player, and also done without outlining any argument whatsoever for why Korynne was a potential mafia other than "she seems scummy as hell".
I even outlined why I didn't think Korynne was not mafia, and that the way she had posted so far was different in style to the last game I played with her where she was actually mafia.
Some of you are quite literally letting L get away with murder...... and Darth thats a WIFOM argument (I hope I used this right..) and expecting L, a veteran player, to act in a predictable manner if he was the Godfather is wrong imo.
People get away with murder all the time. Except in other setups we call it lynching.
And yeah, it is. But a lot of stuff in mafia early game is. Especially with this setup, there's absolutely no way to distinguish between a GF and a townie, assuming the watcher doesn't catch him.
On June 01 2010 03:47 XeliN wrote: As far as I can tell the one useful thing L has done is potentially help a cop verify his actual role. This was done at the expense of killing a town player, and also done without outlining any argument whatsoever for why Korynne was a potential mafia other than "she seems scummy as hell".
I even outlined why I didn't think Korynne was not mafia, and that the way she had posted so far was different in style to the last game I played with her where she was actually mafia.
Some of you are quite literally letting L get away with murder...... and Darth thats a WIFOM argument (I hope I used this right..) and expecting L, a veteran player, to act in a predictable manner if he was the Godfather is wrong imo.
Well, what else can we do? Without PMs and two people dying every night we as a town need to act quickly. By killing Korynne, L allowed the cop to figure out his sanity and if the game continues like this, the cop will be vital in finding out the mafia.
And yes, L could be godfather but he's the only one who proposed a working plan so we should follow it for now.
On June 01 2010 03:47 XeliN wrote: As far as I can tell the one useful thing L has done is potentially help a cop verify his actual role. This was done at the expense of killing a town player, and also done without outlining any argument whatsoever for why Korynne was a potential mafia other than "she seems scummy as hell".
I even outlined why I didn't think Korynne was not mafia, and that the way she had posted so far was different in style to the last game I played with her where she was actually mafia.
Some of you are quite literally letting L get away with murder...... and Darth thats a WIFOM argument (I hope I used this right..) and expecting L, a veteran player, to act in a predictable manner if he was the Godfather is wrong imo.
Well, what else can we do? Without PMs and two people dying every night we as a town need to act quickly. By killing Korynne, L allowed the cop to figure out his sanity and if the game continues like this, the cop will be vital in finding out the mafia.
And yes, L could be godfather but he's the only one who proposed a working plan so we should follow it for now.
We should follow L's plan without L. He proposed the plan and took the first shot. He could very well be the GF. With that in mind, it would make sense for him to take the first shot.
Do you guys intentionally keep trying to avoid the fact that I'm asking the SK to kill me tonight?
Its pretty ridiculous that some of you are saying I'm most likely town, then you attempt to say I should be shot. C'mon bros. Gameface.
Anyone who can shoot is likely to be the GF, but again, look at the game format. Mafia don't need to do fuck all except stoke town to molest themselves, so they'll just call townies bad names and look for excuses to shoot them.
Which was expected. Very expected. Mafia would also be itching to have less people claim and they'd likely submit a few fake shoot claims early too.
By the end of the day I'll have a list of people who have done very little besides try to shit on other people, we're going to give one of those people the order to shoot the other and vice versa as per the original plan.
DTs, check the least active people in the thread. Watcher, do whatever you want. SK kill me. Bomberman, lol i dunno. Mafia: hit me too, why not. 2 stones, one bird.
Haha kiss my ass, L, I had to go to work this morning and I don't get off till atleast 3 cst. I left a post right before I went to bed yesterday and just because I can't literally be beside my computer all day doesn't mean I'm inactive. Hell, no one even responds to my posts or answers any of my goddamn questions, I can't even follow up on them.
Putting that aside, your idea is dumb because mafia will claim to be townies and, if the blues don't, we get nothing, if the blues do, free mafia kill list, especially if the town starts picking them off.
Also, what's to stop the mafia from splitting themselves between both? One mafia goes in the can't shoot list, gets caught, and we think all the mafia are there and give the mafia more time. The plan is trying to force information but it doesn't actually force the mafia to do anything that endangers them.
On June 01 2010 05:25 TwoToneTerran wrote: Haha kiss my ass, L, I had to go to work this morning and I don't get off till atleast 3 cst. I left a post right before I went to bed yesterday and just because I can't literally be beside my computer all day doesn't mean I'm inactive. Hell, no one even responds to my posts or answers any of my goddamn questions, I can't even follow up on them.
Putting that aside, your idea is dumb because mafia will claim to be townies and, if the blues don't, we get nothing, if the blues do, free mafia kill list, especially if the town starts picking them off.
Also, what's to stop the mafia from splitting themselves between both? One mafia goes in the can't shoot list, gets caught, and we think all the mafia are there and give the mafia more time. The plan is trying to force information but it doesn't actually force the mafia to do anything that endangers them.
Actually the moment I proposed the idea I started getting a huge amount of information about people by their reactions to the idea.
If you are a green shooter there's literally nothing stopping you from claiming. We've had around 10 people claim to be shooters. The game has 17(?) people remaining. At minimum, we have 3 mafia members, 3 blues and 2 third party members that cannot shoot.
So basically 1:2 people can't fire and we've had a huge list of people volunteering themselves to shoot.
You guys think that the claim itself is the entire point of the plan; its not. The entire point of the plan is to pressure people into doing something and see how they react, and plenty of people have reacted in a manner which betrays the fact that they aren't green, including some of the people that have claimed to be shooters.
So, what, you have a list of people who made posting errors in response to your idea?
I don't like your idea, and you're practically tying a leash on the town and are forcing them to either agree with your or disagree with you, and we all know what the latter will mean.
On June 01 2010 05:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: So, what, you have a list of people who made posting errors in response to your idea?
I don't like your idea, and you're practically tying a leash on the town and are forcing them to either agree with your or disagree with you, and we all know what the latter will mean.
See, I'm glad you're posting now, because it lets me do the following:
Radfield died. Radfield posted a grand total of twice and both were good posts. Radfield posted this before dying:
On May 31 2010 09:41 Radfield wrote: Some Thoughts
I like L's basic plan of having people role claim. Even if it forces us to out our blues, if it can lead us to reds it's worthwhile. Trading blues for reds is a decent trade in this format, because both our medic and detective are not nearly as useful. Also, I highly doubt that mafia will even be targeting our blues this game. The real threat to the mafia are the confirmed shooters.
Does it make sense for our blue roles to simply claim blue? Or should they outright state their role? By having them claim blue we can protect our watcher, who's the biggest asset to the town at this point.
One problem with role claiming is we do NOT know how many blue roles there are. We might have 1 1 1, or we might have 2 cops/2 doctors/1 watcher. We really don't know, which means we learn a lot less from role claiming.
SK should absolutely be hunting scum. They should also be doing whatever they can to make themselves a target for the mafia to prolong the town life. Bomberman is a total wildcard. Their chance of winning is very close to zero.
Now, the important part here is that radfield essentially said he wanted us to kill people on that inactive list and he called out 7 people off the top of his head. Within the same page 3 of the targetted people posted large blocks of text:
tree.hugger Vivi57 TwoToneTerran
Objectively mafia are trying to lay low and just have members of the town shoot each other. They pop up when they can put a wedge between townies then slink away.
So, TwoToneTerran, how do you feel about shooting vivi tomorrow?
As of now, people who claimed able to shoot is (in order): L(shot) BrownBear Motbob OhN Vivi57(?) That said, if motbob fails to shoot whoever shoots L, I will. XeliN(?) I am going to be shooting L at the first opportunity tomorrow irrespective of whether you all agree. LunarDestiny
I might missed some people. Feel free to correct it.
Interesting response L. I'm not sure what kind of response you're expecting out of me and motbob, but I'm sure you're fishing for reactions.
I think chez has a really good chance of being bomber. Despite saying all roles are random, I can't imagine ace choosing someone he thinks of as an idiot for that role because he'd be afraid of having to go through a dozen phrases before he finds a good one. Besides, in the same way that caller chose Ace to be sk in one of his red army games because the role fits him perfectly, bomber would fit chez perfectly. Combine that with his blabbering about codewords and I think we just found our bomber.
It's also interesting how L consistently manages to have a magic plan for himself that he can't share with anyone and always leads the discussion to people arguing over his plan. So I am proposing something different:
As a town, I think that we should silence L. How would we do this? We vote that he should be silenced and promise that if he talks, he will instantly be shot.
I still believe L is green, but lots of good discussion will happen once people are able to talk about something other than "I agree with L" or "I disagree with L".
L is probably innocent, which is a real shame because once again he's the town's worst player.
Whatever you're motives were for shooting, and however smart or stupid your plan may have been, the point is that you didn't do anything with any kind of consensus, or any kind of agreement at all really. The town doesn't fall apart because people keep shooting other people—there's no reason to assume the mafia would shoot someone right off the bat to 'steal' a day kill from us—the town falls apart because people think they're smarter than everyone else, or they think that one person is hurting the town effort. Case in point; XeliN's vow to kill you tomorrow.
What I never liked about your plan was not solely the fact that it exposed our blues to night kills, (a point which should gain more attention, now that our medic is down, and I doubt we have another one) but also the fact that it relied purely on the intuition of a select group of people, (and by group I mean you, yourself, and your invisible friend Larry) and assumed somehow that they would be correct all the time. Your Napoleonic complex wouldn't have it any other way, I presume.
Rather, we should've been doing what I and a few others advocated from the start, which was choosing random people and assigning them to make the kill. We learn much more from that than we do from an idiot like you taking matters into your own hands.
Currently I won't shoot L at the first opportunity, I will wait to see what the town idea is and if someone else is suggested to shoot L as a means to confirm them (or limit them to town or godfather)
That said I will probably end up shooting L if we don't agree on getting someone else to kill him, my point is I won't be doing it straight away.
On June 01 2010 06:40 tree.hugger wrote: L is probably innocent, which is a real shame because once again he's the town's worst player.
Whatever you're motives were for shooting, and however smart or stupid your plan may have been, the point is that you didn't do anything with any kind of consensus, or any kind of agreement at all really. The town doesn't fall apart because people keep shooting other people—there's no reason to assume the mafia would shoot someone right off the bat to 'steal' a day kill from us—the town falls apart because people think they're smarter than everyone else, or they think that one person is hurting the town effort. Case in point; XeliN's vow to kill you tomorrow.
What I never liked about your plan was not solely the fact that it exposed our blues to night kills, (a point which should gain more attention, now that our medic is down, and I doubt we have another one) but also the fact that it relied purely on the intuition of a select group of people, (and by group I mean you, yourself, and your invisible friend Larry) and assumed somehow that they would be correct all the time. Your Napoleonic complex wouldn't have it any other way, I presume.
Rather, we should've been doing what I and a few others advocated from the start, which was choosing random people and assigning them to make the kill. We learn much more from that than we do from an idiot like you taking matters into your own hands.
Yeah, you're incredibly stupid, as usual.
Lets do some math, shall we townies?
Game started with 20 people. 6 of those hate us. Of the remaining 14, 3 or more are blue, giving us 11 or less shooters.
3 people have died. 2 greens and 1 blue, leaving us with 17 people, 2 or more blues and up to 9 shooters. 3 people die per cycle, the medic's dead so its unlikely that we have defenses on that side. We get 1 day kill per 1 SK kill and 1 Mafia hit.
So, what does this mean? It means the game isn't going to last long. Lets show the math:
Night 1: 20->18 Day 1: 18->17 Night 2 (now): 17->15 Day 2 (our next hit): 15->14 Night 3: 14->12 **** Note: If we miss our hit during the day, HALF of the players in the game are going to be anti-town unless the SK is a bro and does some of our job for us. Day 3: 12->11 Night 4: 11->9 -> 3 townies, 4 mafia members, and 2 3rd parties left worse case scenario.
So simply put, we lose day 3 if we haven't made a proper hit. But lets remember something: Mafia have a day hit. If we miss our hit today, mafia hijack our next hit and if SK/mafia don't get unlucky, WE LOSE.
We don't have fucking time to dick around and have little duels between you and your yu-gi-oh friends. Random shooting does not threaten mafia members. It doesn't put people on the spot. We don't have 4 days to clear them all out unless we rely on the third parties to help us out. If they get put on the spot on day 2, they claim blue and we have literally zero time to verify them before the game ends, which also means that blues have to be shot on day 2 if they're given a shoot order and fail to comply, which ALSO ends the game for us. The only way to pressure people is to concatenate the list of potential shooters immediately and then start assigning people to shoot based on that, then use fishing expeditions in the thread to see how people react so that we have accurate hits from this night onwards.
There are only 2 real methods of avoiding this: We find the SK and kill him tonight or tomorrow, or we get the GF because that helps us tremendously regarding clearing our shooters.
So no, random shooting is fucking dumb. Look at the list of inactive people and choose someone to shoot someone else. within those 7 people.
The was pretty retarded to kill Korynne, she was obviously a townie >.> Someone is pretty bad at simple behavior analysis. Big lol at the post above me. L says: Random shooting is fucking dumb. no fucking shit. oh wait, I guess that means L is fucking dumb.
But now that that is out of the way, we should shoot LunarDestiny tomorrow. Not L, even if he is retarded.
On June 01 2010 06:40 tree.hugger wrote: L is probably innocent, which is a real shame because once again he's the town's worst player.
Whatever you're motives were for shooting, and however smart or stupid your plan may have been, the point is that you didn't do anything with any kind of consensus, or any kind of agreement at all really. The town doesn't fall apart because people keep shooting other people—there's no reason to assume the mafia would shoot someone right off the bat to 'steal' a day kill from us—the town falls apart because people think they're smarter than everyone else, or they think that one person is hurting the town effort. Case in point; XeliN's vow to kill you tomorrow.
What I never liked about your plan was not solely the fact that it exposed our blues to night kills, (a point which should gain more attention, now that our medic is down, and I doubt we have another one) but also the fact that it relied purely on the intuition of a select group of people, (and by group I mean you, yourself, and your invisible friend Larry) and assumed somehow that they would be correct all the time. Your Napoleonic complex wouldn't have it any other way, I presume.
Rather, we should've been doing what I and a few others advocated from the start, which was choosing random people and assigning them to make the kill. We learn much more from that than we do from an idiot like you taking matters into your own hands.
Yeah, you're incredibly stupid, as usual.
Lets do some math, shall we townies?
Game started with 20 people. 6 of those hate us. Of the remaining 14, 3 or more are blue, giving us 11 or less shooters.
3 people have died. 2 greens and 1 blue, leaving us with 17 people, 2 or more blues and up to 9 shooters. 3 people die per cycle, the medic's dead so its unlikely that we have defenses on that side. We get 1 day kill per 1 SK kill and 1 Mafia hit.
So, what does this mean? It means the game isn't going to last long. Lets show the math:
Night 1: 20->18 Day 1: 18->17 Night 2 (now): 17->15 Day 2 (our next hit): 15->14 Night 3: 14->12 **** Note: If we miss our hit during the day, HALF of the players in the game are going to be anti-town unless the SK is a bro and does some of our job for us. Day 3: 12->11 Night 4: 11->9 -> 3 townies, 4 mafia members, and 2 3rd parties left worse case scenario.
So simply put, we lose day 3 if we haven't made a proper hit. But lets remember something: Mafia have a day hit. If we miss our hit today, mafia hijack our next hit and if SK/mafia don't get unlucky, WE LOSE.
The alternative, of course, is that you waste all of our hits for us, while we applaud and say words of encouragement like "close one L!" or "you'll get'em next time".
You think this is a school play where you've been cast as the lead, and the rest of us have been cast as the trees int eh background, with a few choreographed dances to do, and a chorus to your songs.
It's your attitude that loses games. Deal with it.
The alternative, of course, is that you waste all of our hits for us, while we applaud and say words of encouragement like "close one L!" or "you'll get'em next time".
You think this is a school play where you've been cast as the lead, and the rest of us have been cast as the trees int eh background, with a few choreographed dances to do, and a chorus to your songs.
It's your attitude that loses games. Deal with it.
Are you really that afraid to talk about radfield's list because he called you out?
The alternative, of course, is that you waste all of our hits for us, while we applaud and say words of encouragement like "close one L!" or "you'll get'em next time".
You think this is a school play where you've been cast as the lead, and the rest of us have been cast as the trees int eh background, with a few choreographed dances to do, and a chorus to your songs.
It's your attitude that loses games. Deal with it.
Are you really that afraid to talk about radfield's list because he called you out?
Looks like we found a mafia member.
When did I have to talk about Radfield's list? He posted it while I was asleep.
But aren't you being a little disingenuous? They're your lists, you brought them up, shouldn't you be taking credit for them?
On June 01 2010 06:42 tree.hugger wrote: And there's absolutely no way I'm shoot-claiming because you say-so.
This makes you suspicious in my eyes. You have nothing to lose by claiming you can shoot so this draws a lot of attention towards you.
Whether or not you like L, I think you can agree that having people claim whether or not they can shoot helps the town. The mafia/anti-town who can't shoot have to either lie or dodge the question and that narrows our list of who to be suspicious of substantially.
Well, unless you're cop/watcher, which fucks up this idea completely and you'd be dead by tomorrow since mafia/sk wouldn't want you alive.
The alternative, of course, is that you waste all of our hits for us, while we applaud and say words of encouragement like "close one L!" or "you'll get'em next time".
You think this is a school play where you've been cast as the lead, and the rest of us have been cast as the trees int eh background, with a few choreographed dances to do, and a chorus to your songs.
It's your attitude that loses games. Deal with it.
Are you really that afraid to talk about radfield's list because he called you out?
Looks like we found a mafia member.
When did I have to talk about Radfield's list? He posted it while I was asleep.
But aren't you being a little disingenuous? They're your lists, you brought them up, shouldn't you be taking credit for them?
Uh, I brought it up as the topic for discussion last page.
Nice L, you've actually outlined some valid argument and explained it properly. Not simply spouted this is what were doing and given little to no explanation whatsoever. I'm pretty high right so not in the best state to do character analysis but your starting to seem more pro town to me.
On June 01 2010 07:44 XeliN wrote: Nice L, you've actually outlined some valid argument and explained it properly. Not simply spouted this is what were doing and given little to no explanation whatsoever. I'm pretty high right so not in the best state to do character analysis but your starting to seem more pro town to me.
I told you i'd give more explanation today. I can't exactly go "lol, here's the trap i'm setting, walk into it if its designed for you".
Now get less high and start posting properly. Radfield list: who on it should shoot who else on it?
Although Tree.Hugger is right about the list your putting so much emphasis on.Radfield didn't even say at any point that he was accusing the inactives of being potential scum because of that, and your using that assumption as a basis for your accusations.
On June 01 2010 06:39 Vivi57 wrote: Interesting response L. I'm not sure what kind of response you're expecting out of me and motbob, but I'm sure you're fishing for reactions.
I think chez has a really good chance of being bomber. Despite saying all roles are random, I can't imagine ace choosing someone he thinks of as an idiot for that role because he'd be afraid of having to go through a dozen phrases before he finds a good one. Besides, in the same way that caller chose Ace to be sk in one of his red army games because the role fits him perfectly, bomber would fit chez perfectly. Combine that with his blabbering about codewords and I think we just found our bomber.
It's also interesting how L consistently manages to have a magic plan for himself that he can't share with anyone and always leads the discussion to people arguing over his plan. So I am proposing something different:
As a town, I think that we should silence L. How would we do this? We vote that he should be silenced and promise that if he talks, he will instantly be shot.
I still believe L is green, but lots of good discussion will happen once people are able to talk about something other than "I agree with L" or "I disagree with L".
lol this post came out of nowhere.
So the town should allow L to live, but he can't post, shoot, or discuss strategy. What's the point of keeping him alive to just threaten him?
On June 01 2010 07:47 XeliN wrote: Although Tree.Hugger is right about the list your putting so much emphasis on.Radfield didn't even say at any point that he was accusing the inactives of being potential scum because of that, and your using that assumption as a basis for your accusations.
Okay, find something better to put emphasis on.
I'm all open for suggestions, but no one is making any because they're a bit too content to shit around and throw rocks at me.
On June 01 2010 06:39 Vivi57 wrote: Interesting response L. I'm not sure what kind of response you're expecting out of me and motbob, but I'm sure you're fishing for reactions.
I think chez has a really good chance of being bomber. Despite saying all roles are random, I can't imagine ace choosing someone he thinks of as an idiot for that role because he'd be afraid of having to go through a dozen phrases before he finds a good one. Besides, in the same way that caller chose Ace to be sk in one of his red army games because the role fits him perfectly, bomber would fit chez perfectly. Combine that with his blabbering about codewords and I think we just found our bomber.
It's also interesting how L consistently manages to have a magic plan for himself that he can't share with anyone and always leads the discussion to people arguing over his plan. So I am proposing something different:
As a town, I think that we should silence L. How would we do this? We vote that he should be silenced and promise that if he talks, he will instantly be shot.
I still believe L is green, but lots of good discussion will happen once people are able to talk about something other than "I agree with L" or "I disagree with L".
lol this post came out of nowhere.
So the town should allow L to live, but he can't post, shoot, or discuss strategy. What's the point of keeping him alive to just threaten him?
On June 01 2010 06:39 Vivi57 wrote: Interesting response L. I'm not sure what kind of response you're expecting out of me and motbob, but I'm sure you're fishing for reactions.
I think chez has a really good chance of being bomber. Despite saying all roles are random, I can't imagine ace choosing someone he thinks of as an idiot for that role because he'd be afraid of having to go through a dozen phrases before he finds a good one. Besides, in the same way that caller chose Ace to be sk in one of his red army games because the role fits him perfectly, bomber would fit chez perfectly. Combine that with his blabbering about codewords and I think we just found our bomber.
It's also interesting how L consistently manages to have a magic plan for himself that he can't share with anyone and always leads the discussion to people arguing over his plan. So I am proposing something different:
As a town, I think that we should silence L. How would we do this? We vote that he should be silenced and promise that if he talks, he will instantly be shot.
I still believe L is green, but lots of good discussion will happen once people are able to talk about something other than "I agree with L" or "I disagree with L".
lol this post came out of nowhere.
So the town should allow L to live, but he can't post, shoot, or discuss strategy. What's the point of keeping him alive to just threaten him?
You're not exactly someone to be trusted Vivi lol
Basically, he says that L is the Goodfriend. That'd be quite insane.
I forgot to mention I'm suggesting a 24 hour silence of L.
Different discussions will occur and I'm convinced that even L would benefit long term because he'd have different information to analyze and removing himself would take away some of the emotion he's putting into this game.
Amber's defense of L after barely posting anything is noted.
On June 01 2010 02:16 Chezinu wrote: G __ __ B __ N O __
your really good
If your word is "Gambinos" that would be hilarious.
WIN---NER!!! Sor-ry I'm to scared I might go B00-m
L IS OBV A T-OWN-IE
Go-d-Fa-ther WAS PICKED RA-NDOmly
MY RO-LE is RA-NDOM too. Why would I have the Bo-m-bs? Must not use.. bi-g words...
L YOU ARE AWE-SOME,, IF I was a th-ird party play-er I would kill whoever you want-ed ... may-be..
But I am not, I'm just a Cra-zy Dr--am--atic pla--y--er... I would totally lis-ten to L and re-ad my fir-st post to under--stand my pl-ay-ing s-ty-le.. L....O....L...
No Bom-ber sha-ll get me... If they do I would...L....O....L... S-o-o-o much...
tree.hugger - generally agrees with everything I've said (atleast about you). Nothing interesting to say until he has a different opinion from me. Definitely speaking his mind, so not trying to hide.
Nikon - Complains that nothing interesting happens at night, but wants darth to insta shoot L tomorrow. The fact that he isn't shooting L himself and wants someone else to do it makes me think he has a non shooting role. Definitely high up on the suspect list.
motbob - hasn't said anything, just claimed a shooting role and said he'd shoot whoever shot L. He definitely needs to start saying stuff since he's close to getting the "mafia lurking in the shadows" label.
ohn - agrees with L, not much else
twotone - no real reads
The most inconsistent play so far is from nikon and since I have no better suspects now, my vote goes to nikon.
On June 01 2010 02:16 Chezinu wrote: G __ __ B __ N O __
your really good
If your word is "Gambinos" that would be hilarious.
WIN---NER!!! Sor-ry I'm to scared I might go B00-m
L IS OBV A T-OWN-IE
Go-d-Fa-ther WAS PICKED RA-NDOmly
MY RO-LE is RA-NDOM too. Why would I have the Bo-m-bs? Must not use.. bi-g words...
L YOU ARE AWE-SOME,, IF I was a th-ird party play-er I would kill whoever you want-ed ... may-be..
But I am not, I'm just a Cra-zy Dr--am--atic pla--y--er... I would totally lis-ten to L and re-ad my fir-st post to under--stand my pl-ay-ing s-ty-le.. L....O....L...
No Bom-ber sha-ll get me... If they do I would...L....O....L... S-o-o-o much...
wow people are act-ually list-ening to me for once...lol
Right now, I'm currently looking at Xel-in, Da-rth, and Nik-on... I'm playing laid back right now since there is no need for me to vote... I guess I could give my opin-ions... But I am town... don't get me wrong.. I'm not a sad co-lor either..
Theres no way Ace would allow "Actually" to be the word thats dumb, it would far too common a word to be potentially explosive. Same goes for players names Hyphen boy!
Ok, I caught up on the last two pages since my absence. It just people being funny about the bomber man. So what is the state of the town now. It seems no one else other than L has a concrete plan (shutting L up for the next 24 hours doesn't count).
I want to ask, are we following L's plan or do we have another plan? We need to make up our minds very soon since night is almost over (2hours?) and the person that we chose to shoot had to shoot immediately after the day begins or some random person will take the shot.
On June 01 2010 10:50 LunarDestiny wrote: Ok, I caught up on the last two pages since my absence. It just people being funny about the bomber man. So what is the state of the town now. It seems no one else other than L has a concrete plan (shutting L up for the next 24 hours doesn't count).
I want to ask, are we following L's plan or do we have another plan? We need to make up our minds very soon since night is almost over (2hours?) and the person that we chose to shoot had to shoot immediately after the day begins or some random person will take the shot.
Its pretty much too late to follow my plan as stated, but seeing as no one listens when I ask for input regarding the radfield afk list.
I need people to come up with pairings on the afk list or other options so that we can pick one. Well, so that I can pick one, because I'd rather not have confusion moving into the day. Cool?
L, you missed me on the shooter list a few pages back.
Anyone worried about the bomber at this point is just silly - the bomber needs to win with his bombs. He wouldn't expose the code word so soon if he was actually trying to win.
Amber - hasn't said too much. tree - prolly not mafia, although i wouldn't mind seeing him shoot someone. he hasn't been THAT inactive. Nikon - chimes in here and there, not too much. Wouldn't mind seeing him shoot. Vivi - much more active recently. Main thing has been to call for L to shut up for 24 hours. motbob - 2 in game posts, only one with anything real. Don't think he's mafia though - he defended L when he could have pushed for L's death like all the retards in this thread = easy win for them. ohn - pretty useless stuff, I wouldn't mind seeing him shoot or be shot. TTT - Not sure what to make of him, he hasn't posted much and has mostly responded, like someone noted.
L, I don't mind taking the shot, and I guess Nikon's as good a target as anyone.
On June 01 2010 12:40 DarthThienAn wrote: Chez is hilarioussss.
L, you missed me on the shooter list a few pages back.
Anyone worried about the bomber at this point is just silly - the bomber needs to win with his bombs. He wouldn't expose the code word so soon if he was actually trying to win.
Amber - hasn't said too much. tree - prolly not mafia, although i wouldn't mind seeing him shoot someone. he hasn't been THAT inactive. Nikon - chimes in here and there, not too much. Wouldn't mind seeing him shoot. Vivi - much more active recently. Main thing has been to call for L to shut up for 24 hours. motbob - 2 in game posts, only one with anything real. Don't think he's mafia though - he defended L when he could have pushed for L's death like all the retards in this thread = easy win for them. ohn - pretty useless stuff, I wouldn't mind seeing him shoot or be shot. TTT - Not sure what to make of him, he hasn't posted much and has mostly responded, like someone noted.
L, I don't mind taking the shot, and I guess Nikon's as good a target as anyone.
Yeah, lunar forgot you off the list, but I realized it when I was putting the lists together.
Anyways, the fact that nearly no one has looked at the list tells me I'm on the right track. If you aren't going to hit me, Hit someone from that list SK. That would be pretty tight too.
Can we analyze what happened. The tactics was pretty good. After Darth's death, Amber did the absolute correct thing by shooting Nikon since if Nikon was reading the thread and he is the SK, he would kill Darth who is about to kill him.
On May 31 2010 13:20 L wrote: Ah look, day time. Time for a shootan.
Kill: Korynne
DTs, I hope you checked her as per my request, this should give you information regarding your sanity.
Roleclaims should start now; Onwards brosefs, to victory.
Purpose of shooting Korynne was so DT could check his sanity in a game that has no PMs and where public claiming would get him killed? DTs are pretty useless in a game with no PMs and a dead medic. Korynne was the only one proposing ideas about how we should organize ourselves as a town until L came along.
I think we already lost this but I'm shooting L tomorrow. Actually, I don't think I'm going to survive the night, someone else shoot him.
So yeah, the request for the SK to kill me was supposed to work if people claimed properly, but no one bothered. At that point killing me with the SK would have been a signal for the watcher to watch me, which would have gotten us the identity of the SK.
If the GF takes the shot tomorrow, we pretty much automatically lose the game, so we're pretty dead.
Can we analyze what happened. The tactics was pretty good. After Darth's death, Amber did the absolute correct thing by shooting Nikon since if Nikon was reading the thread and he is the SK, he would kill Darth who is about to kill him.
What happened: We just got raped because we spent 15 pages talking about me. I'm honestly quite flattered.
So I go to work...Come back...And all hell breaks loose again. You gotta stop this people.
Alright, reading through the thread, Lots of people pop out. Why was Chezinu killed? That kill doesn't seem to make any sense.
And everyone keeps forgetting of the possibilities of the mafia/Sk targetting etiher the bomber man (in the case of the mafia/sk) or the sk (in the case of the mafia). Of course we won't know who hit what, but that becomes a very real possibility as our numbers dwindle.
I personally feel tree.hugger seemed a little mafia with a post he made earlier. + Show Spoiler +
On June 01 2010 06:40 tree.hugger wrote: L is probably innocent, which is a real shame because once again he's the town's worst player.
Whatever you're motives were for shooting, and however smart or stupid your plan may have been, the point is that you didn't do anything with any kind of consensus, or any kind of agreement at all really. The town doesn't fall apart because people keep shooting other people—there's no reason to assume the mafia would shoot someone right off the bat to 'steal' a day kill from us—the town falls apart because people think they're smarter than everyone else, or they think that one person is hurting the town effort. Case in point; XeliN's vow to kill you tomorrow.
What I never liked about your plan was not solely the fact that it exposed our blues to night kills, (a point which should gain more attention, now that our medic is down, and I doubt we have another one) but also the fact that it relied purely on the intuition of a select group of people, (and by group I mean you, yourself, and your invisible friend Larry) and assumed somehow that they would be correct all the time. Your Napoleonic complex wouldn't have it any other way, I presume.
Rather, we should've been doing what I and a few others advocated from the start, which was choosing random people and assigning them to make the kill. We learn much more from that than we do from an idiot like you taking matters into your own hands.
But he could of very well just been mad at L. L does seem like he wants to really take charge this game.
And Chezinu was pretty lol.
About Radfields list: Well it seems like a good starting point (killer our watcher), so I dunno. It seems pretty obvious our blues think this is a normal game and don't realize it's important to claim, regardless.
So not high anymore. once again someone is killed with little to no explanation as to why... anyway I trusted the town enough to not bother insta shooting although I was sleeping anyway. I won't make the same mistake again L.
I have my head in my hands wondering how to salvage this game.
L, why on earth did you pick Nikon, a person in the middle of your inactive list, instead of saying "let's pick the highest one alphabetically" or something objective like that? I'm so annoyed right now because I know you're town but I also know that someone's going to shoot you because you're being so goddamn stupid.
On June 01 2010 23:20 motbob wrote: I have my head in my hands wondering how to salvage this game.
L, why on earth did you pick Nikon, a person in the middle of your inactive list, instead of saying "let's pick the highest one alphabetically" or something objective like that? I'm so annoyed right now because I know you're town but I also know that someone's going to shoot you because you're being so goddamn stupid.
Well, mostly because Nikon decided to take a trip on the AFK train and no one else bothered to talk about the fucking list for 2 pages. I wanted to get Darth confirmed via the shot, because I was pretty sure he was town and Lunar left him off the list mysteriously.
I didn't give the heads up for anyone else to take the shot, nor would I have shot nikon based on who died during the night.
But yeah, keep talking about me instead of looking for the mafia or third parties. Its pretty productive for growing my 12 inch e-penis ego, but not so much for winning the game.
I'd kinda like to be able to sift through players based on their positive contributions and game content because we know that mafia don't need to do anything to win this game, but half of our townies flat out refuse to do any work. So yeah, well played. Game's pretty fucked unless the mafia and SK find each other in a blazing fit of crazy during the next night.
L you seem to be taking this the wrong way. If you are legitimately town then it is YOUR fault that alot of the discussion has been about you due to how sinfully bad you've played. Your lack of coherent argument, analysis, direction, co-operation e.t.c.
Sure others would be at fault too for misinterpreting your complete failure as meaning you are mafia , but the blame in such a scenario would rest largely on you.
You have dominated the dicussion through your posting style and what you've posted and your now moaning about it and saying it is the towns fault. Innocent or Guilty you are an ineffectual nuisance this game
Guys I dropped the ball on that one. I was afraid that if we gave the godfather the chance to get a kill in we would not gain any valuable information. Don't shoot L because of this. I totally went rogue on this kill.
I also didn't want to have everyone role-claiming that they could "kill: ##." It sounds great but we're outing the players we need to keep in the game.
If you want to shoot someone shoot me for being an idiot, not L ffs.
And motbob if you want to save this game and if you truly believe L should not be shot then make sure people know before they get trigger happy. Don't sit here and let this stuff happen (like oh the past two days) if you want to do something about it.
There are 3 people who we ought to be discussing to shoot tommorrow.
They are Darth, L and Amber
Amber for the obvious reason of jump killing on someone L named with no argument whatsoever beyong him being inactive.
Darth for the dichotomous nature of his both avoiding being asked to Shoot L, yet jumping at the opportunity for a Nikon kill. His attitude recently has been suspect in my eyes although his role is one that is more determinable if we kill L and as such might be better to leave for now.
L hopefully for obvious reasons, but let me just say he has been given close to free reign this game in what he's been allowed to get away with, and so far every day kill has been picked by him.
On June 02 2010 00:01 XeliN wrote: L you seem to be taking this the wrong way. If you are legitimately town then it is YOUR fault that alot of the discussion has been about you due to how sinfully bad you've played. Your lack of coherent argument, analysis, direction, co-operation e.t.c.
Sure others would be at fault too for misinterpreting your complete failure as meaning you are mafia , but the blame in such a scenario would rest largely on you.
You have dominated the dicussion through your posting style and what you've posted and your now moaning about it and saying it is the towns fault. Innocent or Guilty you are an ineffectual nuisance this game
Its my fault that people ignore the plan and talk about me when I purposely give them information. That other players act without listening regardless? That actions taken by amber are being attributed to me?
Ok.
But yeah, keep talkin' about me. 13 inches and growing.
On June 02 2010 00:02 Amber[LighT] wrote: Guys I dropped the ball on that one. I was afraid that if we gave the godfather the chance to get a kill in we would not gain any valuable information. Don't shoot L because of this. I totally went rogue on this kill.
I also didn't want to have everyone role-claiming that they could "kill: ##." It sounds great but we're outing the players we need to keep in the game.
If you want to shoot someone shoot me for being an idiot, not L ffs.
And motbob if you want to save this game and if you truly believe L should not be shot then make sure people know before they get trigger happy. Don't sit here and let this stuff happen (like oh the past two days) if you want to do something about it.
I've already said that even though he's being stupid, I'll kill anyone who kills him.
Well, if it was yesterday and the shot was still open, I'd have probably wanted you to shoot TwoToneTerran because he's not doing anything. But yeah, no one's doing anything, so its kinda irrelevant. Mafia wins.
Townies are happy to fight with other townies or not post at all. When productive suggestions are put forth: You're on the hook to analyse someone, or pick the shooter/shot pairing from this list, I get literally zero feedback. The only townies who were active have all been killed, leaving me with people like you and vivi. But since you guys are terrible, you have the brain dead superarmor I talked about before because you aren't expected to contribute.
We're on night 3 and we have 24 pages, and the majority of the posts are content void garbage.
So how do we get out of this? We don't. The numbers don't play out in our favor unless the mafia and SK hit each other or unless we hit the SK, but even if we had hit a mafia member per day, we'd still be in the same shit-boat because total kp/day is 3 and we have 6 people to kill prior to winning, and that's mathematically impossible without having the SK helping us, or we perfect the game.
The OP post has no information on win conditions for the mafia team, I'm going to assume they're fucked if they lose their GF because they can't kill the SK/bomber. If that's mafia will lose if they take shots at our shooters, because we won't be able to murder the sk. If they want to win, the easiest method is for them to try and ping the sk, realize there was a bulletproof event during the night and out a goon to tell us. Or they could just miss their shot, then have their GF shoot, but that would get him day-shot the next day and bomber would win.
Yeah I'm useless. I'm the one who at the very start of the game took it upon myself to kill an active poster, with no argument whatsoever for why they were town and ignoring people (me) who outlined reasons why they were not scum.
I'm the one who suggested a useless plan relying on an end that will not happen and if it does would only be to the detriment of the town.
I'm the one whose made countless statments of "where doing this" and generally acted without any thought for town discussion, instead simply making demands.
I'm the one who has currently, through either directly killing or by naming a target, killed two town alligned players.
The stuff you say about me is true, I haven't contributed and pretty much spent most of the time trying to show why your plans are poor, your methods unhelpful and your actions suspicious. I have sucked, but so have you and mayb with you gone I can actually think clearly without having to deal with your irritations.
On June 02 2010 00:01 XeliN wrote: L you seem to be taking this the wrong way. If you are legitimately town then it is YOUR fault that alot of the discussion has been about you due to how sinfully bad you've played. Your lack of coherent argument, analysis, direction, co-operation e.t.c.
Sure others would be at fault too for misinterpreting your complete failure as meaning you are mafia , but the blame in such a scenario would rest largely on you.
You have dominated the discussion through your posting style and what you've posted and your now moaning about it and saying it is the towns fault. Innocent or Guilty you are an ineffectual nuisance this game
But yeah, keep talkin' about me. 13 inches and growing.
You misunderstand, L, the plan all along has been to grow your manhood to such a size that even if you are killed, the behemoth will remain.
For your future reference, there were several people along with myself who put forth ideas, but they never got discussed, because you shot them down, and then spammed the thread talking about yourself Bill Murray-style.
***
But enough on a sad old man who thinks he's somehow relevant. Nobody talk about L anymore, talk about the game.
What happened last night was close to the worst possible thing that could've happened, aside I guess from the DT dying too, but let's even think about that.
Where do we go from here? The DT has got to start getting inform-ation to the town somehow. We've got to kill mafia or the SK every night from here on out. If the bombs are trigg-ered, we're also dead, it's time to start worry-ing about what you say. Use words with five or less letters, and use comp-licated syno-nyms when possible. Use "_" or "-" or any of Chez's tricks to not die. And be wary of people planting words.
Also, discu-ssion on who to kill tomorrow should begin now. Again and again, I just don't think it's L with out any proof. Of course, it'll be funny if L turns out to be the godfather, but there's 3/14 chance right now that we get mafia, and a 1/14 chance that we get the GF. (It could be 1/2 between L and Amber?) But still, I just don't think L is mafia. If we were doing any better, I'd say yeah, let's kill the bastard, but time is running out on us. If we were almost sure to lose, I'd say yeah, let's take him down with us, but again, I think this is salvag-eable, but only just.
Of whom, I think we should hear more from Jspazz especially, and maybe Brown Bear, ohN and citi.zen, all of whom I don't remember posting too much. Start from here, I guess.
Citi.zen hasn't posted for pretty much the entire game. motbob only posts me toos and one liner me toos at that. ~Opz~ has been a ghost. TTT as well. Johnny's pretty much in the same boat. Vivi only perks up when he's called out. Lunar's posting minimally. Until these last two posts same with you. Brownbear is talking far less than he normally does. ohN is just agreeing with me then dissapearing.
Its pretty retarded.
There are too many people playing too quiet. Mafia probably doesn't have an incentive to even bother making waves so I'm going to assume that tree.hugger and XeliN are legit, as is amber because of the shot. Iaaan has posted a decent amount so he's off my radar for now.
But even then, we can only get into a decent position if mafia/3rd parties screw up tonight and we hit one of the SK/GF/Roleblocker.
so tree hugger and amber are innocent (gf aside). 6/9 players left aren't town aligned.
Haha, I'm rereading johnnyspazz and found this gem:
"we don't need to do any post analysis until we reach the godfather"
Later, he also says we should shoot people who haven't posted yet (may 30, 13:47). If he shows up red, it could make alot more people who didn't post before that innocent.
And after watcher dies:
"wow watcher and doctor already dead? that's great..."
Until someone convinces me otherwise, my vote is on johnny. I'm also half asleep so if this post is barely coherent, that's why.
I'm also completely convinced that all the arguments so far have been town v town. So we need to pile all the inactives up to this point. Mafia's plan was to just sit back and let us kill each other and it worked.
Spazz seems like a very likely mafia candidate. But I gotta be heading to work again. If I'm still alive when I get back from work I'll post some decent analysis on every living player. Thread isn't that big, shouldn't take too long. Have enough information to make a decent credible post now.
I'd like for the detective to speak up to tell you the truth though. He should have some pretty good info now.
On June 02 2010 04:06 LunarDestiny wrote: Man this game moves too fast. I slept through night 2 and has an early class. Can this game switch to 24 hours night and some hours day?
That takes all the bang bang out of it :S These games are meant to be... hectic. It's what you get from Caller/Ace games.
On June 02 2010 00:08 XeliN wrote: There are 3 people who we ought to be discussing to shoot tommorrow.
They are Darth, L and Amber
Amber for the obvious reason of jump killing on someone L named with no argument whatsoever beyong him being inactive.
Darth for the dichotomous nature of his both avoiding being asked to Shoot L, yet jumping at the opportunity for a Nikon kill. His attitude recently has been suspect in my eyes although his role is one that is more determinable if we kill L and as such might be better to leave for now.
L hopefully for obvious reasons, but let me just say he has been given close to free reign this game in what he's been allowed to get away with, and so far every day kill has been picked by him.
There's an old saying where I come from, it's.. Kill me once, shame on.. shame on you... Kill me can'tgetkilledagain.
Here is my take: 1st night death: LuDwig (inactive), Radfield (active) 2nd night death:DarthThienAn (inactive), Chezinu (active) 3rd night death: L (active), Xelin (active)
It would be much more clear if the death follows a trend so we can pinpoint the kill by mafia and the kill by the SK. From mafia's stand point, they want to cause confusion to town and make them shoot each other. The SK also want to kill the townie first because he can only be killed by the day kill (well, godfather can day kill too).
Now take a look at who is for L's plan and who is against L's plan. LuDwig - very inactive. Not for or against. Radfield - For L's plan. DarthThienAn - For L's plan. Chezinu - For L's plan. L - AH... Xelin - Against L's plan.
So except LuDwig's death, the target definitely are those who are for or against L's plan. Because L's plan calls for role claim and target those who are AFK. I would say LuDwig is an obstacle to L's plan so I will now classify him as against L's plan for analyzing.
Now lets combine both characteristic of each person above: 1st night LuDwig - Inactive, obstacle to L's plan Radfield - Active, for L's plan
2nd night DarthThienAn - Inactive, for L's plan Chezinu - active, for L's plan
3rd night L - active, for HIS plan Xelin - active, against L's plan
Now i start to see some similar death trait. For every night: a person who is active and for L's plan died (Radfield, Chezinu, and L) The other death are LuDwig - Inactive and obstacle to L's plan DarthTheinAn - For L's plan, but Inactive. Xelin - Active, but against L's plan
I want to remind you that L's plan requires the person being active so I see two different sets of death targets.
On June 02 2010 04:06 LunarDestiny wrote: Man this game moves too fast. I slept through night 2 and has an early class. Can this game switch to 24 hours night and some hours day?
That takes all the bang bang out of it :S These games are meant to be... hectic. It's what you get from Caller/Ace games.
It sucks when I slept through a day. i haven't absorb the two townies and watcher blow then waking up to another 2 townies death.
On June 02 2010 05:00 Ace wrote: Blame people for shooting so fast ^_^. Next game I might take it into consideration though. Having a 24 hour night cycle and 12 hour day.
Next game should be unlimited ammos, 3 lives per person, 10 townies, 10 mafia, only day no night.. Please make that game.
On June 02 2010 05:00 Ace wrote: Blame people for shooting so fast ^_^. Next game I might take it into consideration though. Having a 24 hour night cycle and 12 hour day.
No, Amber. As I said before, you did the absolute correct thing. We missed the fact that if our shooter is killed, we need a backup shooter. Heck we might even need 2 backup shooters.
On June 02 2010 05:03 BrownBear wrote: Ugh. I blame everyone for this. The reason I haven't been posting is because we are so screwed anyway, it's not like it matters.
I will kill someone today if people want.
Now, now, remember this bit from L:
The OP post has no information on win conditions for the mafia team, I'm going to assume they're fucked if they lose their GF because they can't kill the SK/bomber. If that's mafia will lose if they take shots at our shooters, because we won't be able to murder the sk. If they want to win, the easiest method is for them to try and ping the sk, realize there was a bulletproof event during the night and out a goon to tell us. Or they could just miss their shot, then have their GF shoot, but that would get him day-shot the next day and bomber would win.
There is still hope. The SK and GF will try hard to kill each-other, the town is a secon-dary goal as long as they are both alive. It would thus be dumb for the town to kill a confirmed shooter right now.
Shooting JohnnyS, Ohn or some other non-confirmed / inactive player is fine.
So if you're claiming you can shoot, as of right now, we have only four people who've claimed they can't, mostly through omission. Assuming 3 mafia, dt, sk, and bomberman, that means half the people who can't shoot are saying they can.
That said I think Iaaan is playing the odds on getting on the can shoot list. We need someone who hasn't confirmed they can shoot to shoot either him or johnny. I'm absolutely sure some people on the can shoot list are lying about it and late inductees are pretty suspicious.
And just when I thought we were showing a little restraint. I mean seriously, what was that plan anyway? You know what? I don't even want to know. I think I just lost faith in humanity.
Dude came out of lurking and target me for no reason. I asked him reason but he didn't care and said he was gonna shoot me if I don't shoot him to prove i am not mafia.
next time, lets have night end at a set time every day (9 pm est?) and have it be a minimum of 12 hours or something. If it'd only be 11 hours, just bump it up to 35.
HIT ONE OF THEM. If you don't, you're just as screwed as town.
Are you terrible on purpose? Iaaan is dead. I know I'm not red, but even if I took your list to be "true" you have 4 names who can't shoot. Unfortunately, we have 4 mafia (3 w/o GF), 2 neutrals + DT, none of which can shoot. AKA people on your "can shoot" list lied.
You're not stupid, just not trying. Comrade vivi, da?
HIT ONE OF THEM. If you don't, you're just as screwed as town.
Are you terrible on purpose? Iaaan is dead. I know I'm not red, but even if I took your list to be "true" you have 4 names who can't shoot. Unfortunately, we have 4 mafia (3 w/o GF), 2 neutrals + DT, none of which can shoot. AKA people on your "can shoot" list lied.
You're not stupid, just not trying. Comrade vivi, da?
...Stop provoking Vivi...He might shoot you.
-_-
This is retarded...most importantly we should focus on finding the god father and the sk. The bomberman should come last. Clearly the phrase must be pretty clever to have lasted so far and not gone off, so he shouldn't be so much of a threat. The SK should be priority one, while the mafia, specifically GF if we can find him, should be two. Killing SK gives us one less person lost a night, and killing the GF gives us the ability to...you know...not be day killed into losing like Red Army 2.
FInding the bomberman after this should be simple.
Now, I fully suspect that the mafia GF has probably done fired a shot. From the first game we know the town will not turn and fire on confirmed shooters. It gives them too much of the likelihood that they are town. This people who have fired should be analyzed thoroughly. I'm mostly against Amber and Lunardestiny (sorry guys, read the situations of firing). It would of been smart for the mafia to kill darth as the night ended, then have their GF shoot who darth was going to shoot. He had been posting repetitively saying that's who he would kill. Makes sense, right?!
Now about lunar....I dunno, just killing Iaaan was stupid. I wish you hadn't of done that. My case against you isn't as strong, because I'm only recalling the last page over and over again and crying.
Now let's see who should do the shooting tomorrow. Brownbear keeps offering to shoot, so he's either town/gf. I'll go with town, as I strongly suspect Amber.
HIT ONE OF THEM. If you don't, you're just as screwed as town.
Are you terrible on purpose? Iaaan is dead. I know I'm not red, but even if I took your list to be "true" you have 4 names who can't shoot. Unfortunately, we have 4 mafia (3 w/o GF), 2 neutrals + DT, none of which can shoot. AKA people on your "can shoot" list lied.
You're not stupid, just not trying. Comrade vivi, da?
...Stop provoking Vivi...He might shoot you.
-_-
This is retarded...most importantly we should focus on finding the god father and the sk. The bomberman should come last. Clearly the phrase must be pretty clever to have lasted so far and not gone off, so he shouldn't be so much of a threat. The SK should be priority one, while the mafia, specifically GF if we can find him, should be two. Killing SK gives us one less person lost a night, and killing the GF gives us the ability to...you know...not be day killed into losing like Red Army 2.
FInding the bomberman after this should be simple.
Now, I fully suspect that the mafia GF has probably done fired a shot. From the first game we know the town will not turn and fire on confirmed shooters. It gives them too much of the likelihood that they are town. This people who have fired should be analyzed thoroughly. I'm mostly against Amber and Lunardestiny (sorry guys, read the situations of firing). It would of been smart for the mafia to kill darth as the night ended, then have their GF shoot who darth was going to shoot. He had been posting repetitively saying that's who he would kill. Makes sense, right?!
Now about lunar....I dunno, just killing Iaaan was stupid. I wish you hadn't of done that. My case against you isn't as strong, because I'm only recalling the last page over and over again and crying.
Now let's see who should do the shooting tomorrow. Brownbear keeps offering to shoot, so he's either town/gf. I'll go with town, as I strongly suspect Amber.
This is a completely fair analysis but I wouldn't be surprised if one of us was offed tonight anyway. Though if that happens then it's highly unlikely that the godfather shot anyone as of yet. I would assume that the SK has been making the shooter shots (killing people who shoot) since it's probably their best bet at finding the godfather which would secure a win for him.
I'm not asking to be saved, and I'm not asking for you to save Lunar, but if I were you guys I would pay close attention to who dies tonight and make sure you have an inactive ready to go.
To be honest there's no way the mafia is going to just hand over their GF on a silver platter. Think about it. They are going to limit their chances of being found from like 9/10 to 1/2 ? That's really risky with the way shooters have been going down so far.
okay here's the deal. Let's assume the godfather didn't shoot. So that's two of the three remaining townies. We've had one of each power role (blue) so I'm going on a huge gambit to assume that the last townie can also shoot. We don't actually know who that is though, since everyone is playing this game mime-style.
So that leaves the mob and the two anti-town members.
I'm going to spot post incase some moron gets trigger happy while I'm doing this.
On June 03 2010 02:46 LunarDestiny wrote: Wait, Amber. Is there any reason you shoot tree hugger?
He's obviously not a townie. Anyone who pushed to shoot somebody but didn't do it is NOT A TOWNIE. There's only three townies remaining: -Myself -You -One other
We don't know the third. No matter who I chose I had a 1/7 chance of hitting a townie. The list is random, but not that random. Think back to what L said sooo many pages back. Check the person above and below you. So I'm going to trim the area around me.
My choices came down to tree.hugger and johnnyspazz. I chose tree.hugger because he exposed himself as a non-shooter. johnnyspazz _COULD_ be the missing townie.
I mean we already won with me Roleblocking whoever was left out of hugger/brown bear and killing tonight, but I literally had my role ready to send waiting on you to post. :x
Well at 4-4 Mafia wins with no Docs to stop you, and no SK to shoot you. Only way to lose would be accidentally triggering the code word but that would be stupid for us to wait on that happening.
GG Mafia team. Town was once again screwed by impatience and not following logic. L's plan was pretty damn simple and easy to follow. The only mistake he made was shooting Korynne but it sure as hell wasn't even going to cost you the game. Imo the goal of this setup is just weeding out non-shooters and killing them asap.
Tree.hugger almost won also because he kept cracking confirmed shooters while only having to worry about being shot in the day by Lunar Destiny (GF). He had 3 of the mafia pinned but didn't make a case for them to be shot by the town, and would have needed to shoot LD this night to walk away with an almost guaranteed victory.
~Opz~ had some sick bomb placement but should have read the thread and used a better codeword ^_^. I think BM was maybe a bit underpowered.
It was kinda funny when he pointed me out for being AFK, when there were people that literally hadn't posted up to that point in the thread, and then Amber decided to take revenge from WaW, but that's water under the bridge now.
I still think Amber's shoot is very good (although it killed the wrong person). It acted like a backup shot. It was L's fault for picking Nikon out of the blue.
On June 03 2010 03:25 Ace wrote: btw Amber you should really learn how to read. You ended up shooting 2 of the town's 3 shots of winning.
Dude game was over during this day phase. The active players stopped posting and it was me and Lunar that was left, even though he was the godfather (facepalm x 10)
And I wasn't really cool with the idea of everyone just role-claiming that they can shoot... so I took the shot when Darth went down lol
On June 03 2010 03:38 LunarDestiny wrote: I still think Amber's shoot is very good (although it killed the wrong person). It acted like a backup shot. It was L's fault for picking Nikon out of the blue.
The timing was sick too: right after Nikkon saw me visit Chez.
On June 03 2010 03:38 LunarDestiny wrote: I still think Amber's shoot is very good (although it killed the wrong person). It acted like a backup shot. It was L's fault for picking Nikon out of the blue.
Don't think it was good, day phases ended way too fast cause people like shooting.
On June 03 2010 03:25 Ace wrote: btw Amber you should really learn how to read. You ended up shooting 2 of the town's 3 shots of winning.
Dude game was over during this day phase. The active players stopped posting and it was me and Lunar that was left, even though he was the godfather (facepalm x 10)
And I wasn't really cool with the idea of everyone just role-claiming that they can shoot... so I took the shot when Darth went down lol
...
you have brownbear and motbob, and Lunar can't shoot. Really there was nothing to worry about except a townie shooting with no plan - oops!
L got a plan he wanted to use badly even took out the other leader (Korynne). But after his failure of placing death order on Nikon, he backed out with his plan.
On June 03 2010 03:41 LunarDestiny wrote: Fault is on Nikon also since he didn't tell the town that he is watch even though the town placed a death sentence on him.
somewhat. last game I tried to just get everyone to do an ordered role claim. Once all the blue roles realize they aren't the most important people in the game and just all role claim at once the game takes a drastic turn. Scum can't kill them without outing themselves in the non-shooter pool. So it becomes a game of numbers where Mafia has to try and kill all the claimed shooters which if you're town you want - Town always wins the numbers game.
Sadly, 2 games have gone by and I think only about 4 people have caught on to this fact. But Nikon getting shot 1 hour into the day without even having a chance to speak doesn't help either.
On June 03 2010 03:25 Ace wrote: btw Amber you should really learn how to read. You ended up shooting 2 of the town's 3 shots of winning.
Dude game was over during this day phase. The active players stopped posting and it was me and Lunar that was left, even though he was the godfather (facepalm x 10)
And I wasn't really cool with the idea of everyone just role-claiming that they can shoot... so I took the shot when Darth went down lol
...
you have brownbear and motbob, and Lunar can't shoot. Really there was nothing to worry about except a townie shooting with no plan - oops!
Then couldn't the game have gone on longer? Motbob did shit the entire game and just played wishy washy how was I going to rely on him? And didn't brownbear post he was considering me as a shot?
Well it was ~Opz~ who suggested it, who was actually going to be my next target since he also threw out a "we should kill x, but I'm not going to do it" post. I should have just let someone else make the choice.
On June 03 2010 03:25 Ace wrote: btw Amber you should really learn how to read. You ended up shooting 2 of the town's 3 shots of winning.
Dude game was over during this day phase. The active players stopped posting and it was me and Lunar that was left, even though he was the godfather (facepalm x 10)
And I wasn't really cool with the idea of everyone just role-claiming that they can shoot... so I took the shot when Darth went down lol
...
you have brownbear and motbob, and Lunar can't shoot. Really there was nothing to worry about except a townie shooting with no plan - oops!
Then couldn't the game have gone on longer? Motbob did shit the entire game and just played wishy washy how was I going to rely on him? And didn't brownbear post he was considering me as a shot?
ok? So convince him to shoot someone else. I mean seriously, BB would have to be pretty retarded to shoot you, someone who has already shot over someone who hasn't. With a dead DT and dead medic that pretty much means anyone who hasn't shot yet is anti-town. It's like you don't understand 90% of this game is about persuasion :/
On June 03 2010 03:25 Ace wrote: btw Amber you should really learn how to read. You ended up shooting 2 of the town's 3 shots of winning.
Dude game was over during this day phase. The active players stopped posting and it was me and Lunar that was left, even though he was the godfather (facepalm x 10)
And I wasn't really cool with the idea of everyone just role-claiming that they can shoot... so I took the shot when Darth went down lol
...
you have brownbear and motbob, and Lunar can't shoot. Really there was nothing to worry about except a townie shooting with no plan - oops!
Then couldn't the game have gone on longer? Motbob did shit the entire game and just played wishy washy how was I going to rely on him? And didn't brownbear post he was considering me as a shot?
ok? So convince him to shoot someone else. I mean seriously, BB would have to be pretty retarded to shoot you, someone who has already shot over someone who hasn't. With a dead DT and dead medic that pretty much means anyone who hasn't shot yet is anti-town. It's like you don't understand 90% of this game is about persuasion :/
In the countless games we've played together have I ever persuaded anybody to do anything other than kill you?
Ahhh, I wasn't going to win, even if I didn't screw up on page 28.
LD did a great job of looking town-y, I would've shot either BrownBear or Amber, which is hilarious really, because for all of the good job I did hiding, I couldn't hit a mafia if my life depended on it.
Mafia played really really well, this was the post that fooled me completely;
On June 02 2010 08:02 LunarDestiny wrote: Ah... too late man, I was posting when you suggest alternative...
Of course, I pretended to be outraged, posting something really dumb in all caps (the JeeJee strategy), and I was just thankful the day ended, but in retrospect, I never would've suspected LD as the mafia.
On June 02 2010 08:34 LunarDestiny wrote: Now, Iaaan. What was that for.
WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU SHOOT IAAAN? IF HE WAS MAFIA, HE WOULD'VE KNOWN YOU WERE ARMED.
My favorite moment in the thread was when Vivi put me on the "Claimed Shooter" list, when in fact I had done nothing of the sort. My inability to shoot was going to doom me sooner or later, and that bought me quite a lot of time.
EDIT; Also, I was really worried at one point when L made his posts about us enlarging his penis size, and I was struck by the idea that L might be the bomber, and the codeword might be "penis" and how hilarious that would be. If you take a look at my post on Page 24, I very deliberately avoid the word.
On June 02 2010 00:01 XeliN wrote: L you seem to be taking this the wrong way. If you are legitimately town then it is YOUR fault that alot of the discussion has been about you due to how sinfully bad you've played. Your lack of coherent argument, analysis, direction, co-operation e.t.c.
Sure others would be at fault too for misinterpreting your complete failure as meaning you are mafia , but the blame in such a scenario would rest largely on you.
You have dominated the discussion through your posting style and what you've posted and your now moaning about it and saying it is the towns fault. Innocent or Guilty you are an ineffectual nuisance this game
But yeah, keep talkin' about me. 13 inches and growing.
You misunderstand, L, the plan all along has been to grow your manhood to such a size that even if you are killed, the behemoth will remain.
For your future reference, there were several people along with myself who put forth ideas, but they never got discussed, because you shot them down, and then spammed the thread talking about yourself Bill Murray-style.
My favorite moment in the thread was when Vivi put me on the "Claimed Shooter" list, when in fact I had done nothing of the sort.
I searched the thread twice trying to look for the place you supposedly claimed you could shoot. We had you or brownbear as the SK at the end.
Reading your mafia thread, I find it funny how LD put so much emphasis on L's plan. That was never really my intention at all, aside from using it as a foil and getting into (literally) the exact same argument I had with him in WaW.
I wanted to make my kills somewhat random, but obviously with a bent towards killing shooters, and until the last night I wasn't explicitly shooting for mafia, but I was going for people whom I suspected were a little suspicious. Instead, all I ended up killing were inactive townies.
Towards the end, I pretty much knew who all of you were, but, crucially, I still had to guess at who the GF and roleblocker were. So I took a risk with my last kill and failed.
Actually, I lied in that post above, my favorite moment was when Darth was spamming the thread trying to kill Nikon, and I was laughing so hard because I knew I had sent in the kill for him. And then when Amber reacted (it lost town the game, but honestly, I was impressed with how quickly he responded) that was the icing on the cake.
----------------------------------------- Ace Original Message: lololololol
----------------------------------------- Me: Original Message:
----------------------------------------- Original Message: Me: I love how I had a 5/10 chance that last round to kill someone opposed to me, and I hit a townie, and the mafia had a 2/7 chance to hit a special role, and they missed too.
Mafia is... citi.zen, T3, Jspazz, and... either BrownBear or Amber is the GF.
(The probability of me picking all three townies and the bomber is too low. I've got to be right somehow.)
HIT ONE OF THEM. If you don't, you're just as screwed as town.
Why didn't any of you claim to be shooters? Apart from myself and tree.hugger who came up as innocent in a role check, that *was* the non shooter list (once you take out laaan)...
Ah, I did not act when laaan was calling me out. I did woke up and see that laaan had been calling me a mafia and was pretty determine to shoot me if I don't shoot him.
Mistyping the "Kill: player" phrase is not intended. If laaan typed the day kill in the correct format before I corrected myself, I would have died.
The Third Parties should just adopt new strategy (at least in custom setups): shoot for Mafia all the time instead of Town, definitely is optimal course of action if you assume that Town is going to fail.
Also to add to the Darth comedy. We mafia first chose Darth as our nightkill target but changed to Chezinu. Good thing we did that because the SK got our back on Darth.
I was also annoyed at how bad my role checks ended up being.
First day was good because it confirmed my sanity. Second day, I check amber who happens to shoot. Third day, I manage to find the sk, completely irrelevant. Fourth day, I check ohn who dies...
HIT ONE OF THEM. If you don't, you're just as screwed as town.
Why didn't any of you claim to be shooters? Apart from myself and tree.hugger who came up as innocent in a role check, that *was* the non shooter list (once you take out laaan)...
Early on I wanted to undermine L's plan and have more people not claim. If everyone claimed it could quickly lead to organized "duels", putting us on a number's game course. Of course, this couldn't have worked with very active townies.
On June 03 2010 04:53 Vivi57 wrote: I was also annoyed at how bad my role checks ended up being.
First day was good because it confirmed my sanity. Second day, I check amber who happens to shoot. Third day, I manage to find the sk, completely irrelevant. Fourth day, I check ohn who dies...
Yeah, honestly we got quite lucky in a many ways :-)
On June 01 2010 13:02 Ace wrote: DarthThienAn (Vanilla Towny) has been killed.
I'm such a comedian...
lol =S.
On June 03 2010 04:52 LunarDestiny wrote: Also to add to the Darth comedy. We mafia first chose Darth as our nightkill target but changed to Chezinu. Good thing we did that because the SK got our back on Darth.
On June 03 2010 03:45 Korynne wrote: Like I said, I blame L for shooting me asap rather than starting a democratic process as town. =(
I was okay with going with his plan too. =\
In this setup, democracy doesnt work. :D
Also @ everyone who was afraid of giving away the blue roles...why would mafia want to shoot the blue roles anyway? They'd get screwed over because now town has less ppl to shoot.
The real problem was, L had a good plan, but then lost all his credibility by shooting one of the most active posters in the thread. Breadcrumbs or not, that was a terrible decision, and threw the town into chaos. Had L shot one of the more inactive players on Day 1, I think the game would have gone much differently.
This was a fun game to watch though, even though it was pretty sad from a town point of view. Well played Lunar Destiny, you did really well as the GF. Rest of the mafia did what they needed to do: keep their heads down. Amber[Light] got unlucky with both Nikon and tree.hugger, but both of those kills were justifiable.
GG All
One of these days I'm going to survive night one, and I'll probably get lynched day two as an obvious mafia due to the fact that I'm not dead yet....
On June 03 2010 06:58 LunarDestiny wrote: I think killing blue roles is very important. In the game, there was never a time when the town has shortage in shooter.
I was very scared of blue role especially cop and watcher.
Blue roles can't shoot. Mafia can't shoot (except for the Godfather). Townies shoot people on the can't shoot list, because all (but one) of the anti-town players are on that list. If you try to shoot blues, you just make life easier for the town since they have less ppl they need to shoot. DT checks people on the can't shoot list, Watcher watches people on the can shoot list. Doctor tries to save people on the can shoot list. Mafia is pretty much forced to shoot people on the can shoot list, preferably those who have already taken shots. If the town is about to shoot a watcher/DT, they just spill their information.
All in all its a good plan except for catching the GF.
On June 03 2010 07:10 Radfield wrote: The real problem was, L had a good plan, but then lost all his credibility by shooting one of the most active posters in the thread. Breadcrumbs or not, that was a terrible decision, and threw the town into chaos. Had L shot one of the more inactive players on Day 1, I think the game would have gone much differently.
This was a fun game to watch though, even though it was pretty sad from a town point of view. Well played Lunar Destiny, you did really well as the GF. Rest of the mafia did what they needed to do: keep their heads down. Amber[Light] got unlucky with both Nikon and tree.hugger, but both of those kills were justifiable.
GG All
One of these days I'm going to survive night one, and I'll probably get lynched day two as an obvious mafia due to the fact that I'm not dead yet....
Agreed. Nikkon for day two didn't help, but that was luck.
Wait nvm theres only 12 can-shoots and 8 cant shoots. Along with the fact that its in SK's best interest to shoot can-shoots, 2 anti-town KP means 6 days to hit the can't-shoot list. Unless town gets lucky and hits the SK of course. Meh should be about even.
Of course theres an even better plan for the town to win, but I'll save that for myself in case I ever decide to play this format again.
On June 03 2010 06:58 LunarDestiny wrote: I think killing blue roles is very important. In the game, there was never a time when the town has shortage in shooter.
I was very scared of blue role especially cop and watcher.
Blue roles can't shoot. Mafia can't shoot (except for the Godfather). Townies shoot people on the can't shoot list, because all (but one) of the anti-town players are on that list. If you try to shoot blues, you just make life easier for the town since they have less ppl they need to shoot. DT checks people on the can't shoot list, Watcher watches people on the can shoot list. Doctor tries to save people on the can shoot list. Mafia is pretty much forced to shoot people on the can shoot list, preferably those who have already taken shots. If the town is about to shoot a watcher/DT, they just spill their information.
All in all its a good plan except for catching the GF.
when I set this up in the last game why didn't you say this? :D
On June 03 2010 06:58 LunarDestiny wrote: I think killing blue roles is very important. In the game, there was never a time when the town has shortage in shooter.
I was very scared of blue role especially cop and watcher.
Blue roles can't shoot. Mafia can't shoot (except for the Godfather). Townies shoot people on the can't shoot list, because all (but one) of the anti-town players are on that list. If you try to shoot blues, you just make life easier for the town since they have less ppl they need to shoot. DT checks people on the can't shoot list, Watcher watches people on the can shoot list. Doctor tries to save people on the can shoot list. Mafia is pretty much forced to shoot people on the can shoot list, preferably those who have already taken shots. If the town is about to shoot a watcher/DT, they just spill their information.
All in all its a good plan except for catching the GF.
when I set this up in the last game why didn't you say this? :D
Because I was practically a confirmed townie. (Its more messy if you have it all public because mafia can lie about being able to shoot. They would get caught eventually, but its still slightly more dangerous acting in the open.)
*please do use this same exact setup again so town can own next time*
We did consider claiming can shoot... then DT or bomber if called upon to shoot. Enough questions were raised against L's plan by townies to make that unnecessary.
Lol, I keep telling the guys to stay calm and don't do anything if they aren't against the wall. Thankfully, there is always someone who shifts the focus on something else and we got away many times.
On June 03 2010 06:32 citi.zen wrote: Once L put you on his red list, you were high profile for everyone. We knew L was pretty accurate picking red roles.
In the end we switched and picked Chez, hoping to slowly kill the active/veteran players to make life easier late game.
Yeah, I don't even know why I was on L's redlist =[. Maybe cuz I did the old active -> inactive thing, but that was just real life, and I do that like every game lolol.
Vivi, you actually helped me narrow down that you are not the SK (remember that list you plea that the SK would follow for the night kill?)
Also, I had you listed as a townie (vanilla or cop). And it was very lucky for the mafia that you turned out to be the cop since a rolecheck on any mafia member would cause a lot of trouble.
On June 03 2010 03:29 Korynne wrote: Damn. So if OpZ got someone to say his word, then all 3 mafia would be dead. :o
Also if Nikon had like two minutes during the day then citi.zen would've been outted.
And town could've won. zOMG~
I blame L, him killing me caused the town to lose. =D
Yea, but I had to win by my bomb.
Am I good at mafia picking? I called Amber as the GF -_-....Only cuz I figured Iaaan and LunarDestiny were being morons. Sorry Amber...Your situation...just looked...crazy.
AND the mafia did change the kill off of darth (but they were killing him!) Crazy.
On June 03 2010 03:30 Ace wrote: Well at 4-4 Mafia wins with no Docs to stop you, and no SK to shoot you. Only way to lose would be accidentally triggering the code word but that would be stupid for us to wait on that happening.
GG Mafia team. Town was once again screwed by impatience and not following logic. L's plan was pretty damn simple and easy to follow. The only mistake he made was shooting Korynne but it sure as hell wasn't even going to cost you the game. Imo the goal of this setup is just weeding out non-shooters and killing them asap.
Tree.hugger almost won also because he kept cracking confirmed shooters while only having to worry about being shot in the day by Lunar Destiny (GF). He had 3 of the mafia pinned but didn't make a case for them to be shot by the town, and would have needed to shoot LD this night to walk away with an almost guaranteed victory.
~Opz~ had some sick bomb placement but should have read the thread and used a better codeword ^_^. I think BM was maybe a bit underpowered.
I WOULD have had them say it
You should have just kept it going. I even told you "Mafia are too obvious"
I was just gonna ask why everyone was being so quiet "I'm being quiet because..." I was honestly gonna start a way with amber...And I intended to change the code last night.
P.s. I wasn't here the last day, (lost my job yesterday)
On June 03 2010 04:52 Hesmyrr wrote: The Third Parties should just adopt new strategy (at least in custom setups): shoot for Mafia all the time instead of Town, definitely is optimal course of action if you assume that Town is going to fail.
I was fucking the mafia up on the constant.
-_-
I just couldn't day kill. Or really kill. Lol. See why I wanted compulsive vig?!
On June 03 2010 03:29 Korynne wrote: Damn. So if OpZ got someone to say his word, then all 3 mafia would be dead. :o
Also if Nikon had like two minutes during the day then citi.zen would've been outted.
And town could've won. zOMG~
I blame L, him killing me caused the town to lose. =D
Yea, but I had to win by my bomb.
Am I good at mafia picking? I called Amber as the GF -_-....Only cuz I figured Iaaan and LunarDestiny were being morons. Sorry Amber...Your situation...just looked...crazy.
AND the mafia did change the kill off of darth (but they were killing him!) Crazy.
On June 03 2010 03:29 Korynne wrote: Damn. So if OpZ got someone to say his word, then all 3 mafia would be dead. :o
Also if Nikon had like two minutes during the day then citi.zen would've been outted.
And town could've won. zOMG~
I blame L, him killing me caused the town to lose. =D
Yea, but I had to win by my bomb.
Am I good at mafia picking? I called Amber as the GF -_-....Only cuz I figured Iaaan and LunarDestiny were being morons. Sorry Amber...Your situation...just looked...crazy.
AND the mafia did change the kill off of darth (but they were killing him!) Crazy.
Yeah, I don't see how winning with bomberman was possible given that you had a single bomb event to end the game with. The moment you're up against the final group of people all of which have bombs on you you essentially lose because no one needs to talk, all a townie needs to do is wait the requisite amount of turns in the eventual 1v1 without talking and shoot you when their shot clock comes back up.
On May 26 2010 21:47 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'll play just to try and be Bomber man....he's always been my hero. Lmao.
Maybe I should of wanted SK....Lol....
Both roles are incredibly hard to win with, but SK kinda had the ability to claim to the town after the GF died in order to trade his hits for surviving a day kill suspicion which lets him cruise into a win if he's crafty and figures out who the town shooters are.
Bomberman I still don't understand how you win unless you're one of the last 4-5 people in the game and you picked something retarded like "indian" as your codeword and had also predicted these 4-5 people would be the last standing and have been setting them up for half the game. Trigger bomb by starting to talk about how delicious the indian food you had when you were afk was.
On June 04 2010 10:50 ~OpZ~ wrote: Funny how I wanted bomberman and got it....xD
On May 26 2010 21:47 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'll play just to try and be Bomber man....he's always been my hero. Lmao.
Maybe I should of wanted SK....Lol....
Both roles are incredibly hard to win with, but SK kinda had the ability to claim to the town after the GF died in order to trade his hits for surviving a day kill suspicion which lets him cruise into a win if he's crafty and figures out who the town shooters are.
Bomberman I still don't understand how you win unless you're one of the last 4-5 people in the game and you picked something retarded like "indian" as your codeword and had also predicted these 4-5 people would be the last standing and have been setting them up for half the game. Trigger bomb by starting to talk about how delicious the indian food you had when you were afk was.
Every person I placed a bomb on was still alive...
Lol....Tellin you L, I had this game in the bag. xD
I was pro bomberman. Also, I could change my codeword every night I placed I new bomb. I didn't know this before night 3 though.......
In some ways the bomber had it easier than the SK. Playing as mafia and having everyone survive we were able to find the SK using the role blocker - but this didn't work for bomber since we had no clue if a new bomb was placed any given night.
The main question is how many bombs can the bomber afford to misplace and still be "about there" at the end. It wasn't bad in this game - and it could easily have gone a bit longer if we didn't get so lucky.
On June 04 2010 10:50 ~OpZ~ wrote: Funny how I wanted bomberman and got it....xD
On May 26 2010 21:47 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'll play just to try and be Bomber man....he's always been my hero. Lmao.
Maybe I should of wanted SK....Lol....
Both roles are incredibly hard to win with, but SK kinda had the ability to claim to the town after the GF died in order to trade his hits for surviving a day kill suspicion which lets him cruise into a win if he's crafty and figures out who the town shooters are.
Bomberman I still don't understand how you win unless you're one of the last 4-5 people in the game and you picked something retarded like "indian" as your codeword and had also predicted these 4-5 people would be the last standing and have been setting them up for half the game. Trigger bomb by starting to talk about how delicious the indian food you had when you were afk was.
Every person I placed a bomb on was still alive...
Lol....Tellin you L, I had this game in the bag. xD
I was pro bomberman. Also, I could change my codeword every night I placed I new bomb. I didn't know this before night 3 though.......
... I told you on the second night when you placed another bomb. Remember "do you want to use the same phrase?"
On June 04 2010 10:50 ~OpZ~ wrote: Funny how I wanted bomberman and got it....xD
On May 26 2010 21:47 ~OpZ~ wrote: I'll play just to try and be Bomber man....he's always been my hero. Lmao.
Maybe I should of wanted SK....Lol....
Both roles are incredibly hard to win with, but SK kinda had the ability to claim to the town after the GF died in order to trade his hits for surviving a day kill suspicion which lets him cruise into a win if he's crafty and figures out who the town shooters are.
Bomberman I still don't understand how you win unless you're one of the last 4-5 people in the game and you picked something retarded like "indian" as your codeword and had also predicted these 4-5 people would be the last standing and have been setting them up for half the game. Trigger bomb by starting to talk about how delicious the indian food you had when you were afk was.
Every person I placed a bomb on was still alive...
Lol....Tellin you L, I had this game in the bag. xD
I was pro bomberman. Also, I could change my codeword every night I placed I new bomb. I didn't know this before night 3 though.......
... I told you on the second night when you placed another bomb. Remember "do you want to use the same phrase?"
/facepalm
And I wanted to keep that phrase for then...Lol...But I was going to win, I'm tellin you lol.
On June 03 2010 06:58 LunarDestiny wrote: I think killing blue roles is very important. In the game, there was never a time when the town has shortage in shooter.
I was very scared of blue role especially cop and watcher.
Blue roles can't shoot. Mafia can't shoot (except for the Godfather). Townies shoot people on the can't shoot list, because all (but one) of the anti-town players are on that list. If you try to shoot blues, you just make life easier for the town since they have less ppl they need to shoot. DT checks people on the can't shoot list, Watcher watches people on the can shoot list. Doctor tries to save people on the can shoot list. Mafia is pretty much forced to shoot people on the can shoot list, preferably those who have already taken shots. If the town is about to shoot a watcher/DT, they just spill their information.
All in all its a good plan except for catching the GF.
when I set this up in the last game why didn't you say this? :D
Because I was practically a confirmed townie. (Its more messy if you have it all public because mafia can lie about being able to shoot. They would get caught eventually, but its still slightly more dangerous acting in the open.)
*please do use this same exact setup again so town can own next time*
Durrrr no its because in the last game mafia had 2 KP so it doesn't work as well because mafia can kill twice as fast.
EPT![[image loading]](http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/164/000692_40.jpg)
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Unlucky for me that you were the godfather ):
